sadly giving up on EMND horse

Grand Prix - I'm in Delta's camp on this - a neuro-impaired horse is not truly sound and can be quite dangerous if/when situation deteriorates. Or he could go down one day and not get up. Is he really happy - hard to tell; if riding at more than a walk is that painful, then riding at a walk can't really feel that great to him, and maybe he's right now only mildly uncomfortable. Personally I would not get on this horse again, walking or otherwise as it is risky.

This is not really much different from the breeding thread where there is a neurological mare that someone was wanting to lease out to breed. ????? The horse isn't right, will likely deteriorate, and could become dangerous as a result. What are the benefits of waiting to see? (and I might add that in a boarding situation, like OP, the risk is that the owner is asked to move the horse if he gets worse...

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Originally Posted by Donella

I personally could not euthanize a horse that is comfortably pasture sound but just not useful as a riding horse. I think it is wrong. The only exception to this would be if I could not afford to feed, clothe, and house myself if I kept the horse (i.e., dire financial situation). I would not euthanize for my own convenience, even if that meant that I could not afford another horse until the present one passes away.

But that's just me and what I can personally live with. It is the only way I can have horses at all, because the ethics of doing it any other way are a major problem for me.

I am horrified by how many people make killing a sound happy horse out to be "an act of kindness". Spare me. It's what my vet (and likely the one who won't euth the OP's horse) calls "convenience killing".

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You seem to have not really read the OP. This is a horse with a neurological issue that the OP cannot fix. Who's not to say that she would go out into the pasture one day and find him heaving on the ground, unable to move at all, due to complete paralysis? Sure, she could turn him out forever, until some idiot drives by the pasture, sees the gorgeous horse and wants to ride it. And trust me, that can and does happen.

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Originally Posted by Donella

I personally could not euthanize a horse that is comfortably pasture sound but just not useful as a riding horse. I think it is wrong. The only exception to this would be if I could not afford to feed, clothe, and house myself if I kept the horse (i.e., dire financial situation). I would not euthanize for my own convenience, even if that meant that I could not afford another horse until the present one passes away.

But that's just me and what I can personally live with. It is the only way I can have horses at all, because the ethics of doing it any other way are a major problem for me.

I am horrified by how many people make killing a sound happy horse out to be "an act of kindness". Spare me. It's what my vet (and likely the one who won't euth the OP's horse) calls "convenience killing".

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The horse is only walking sound now but will probably not be even walking sound soon judging by how quickly he has gone down hill. And it would be an act of kindness to put him down before he gets to the point of not being able to walk.

Hey, if the horse is in fairly immediate and certain danger of self destruction or suffering due to his disease then yes, of course I would say that putting him down is the right and only thing to do.

But nowhere in the OP's post does she mention this and she also says that the vet refused to put the horse down. If the above were indeed the case I find it hard to believe that any vet would refuse to euth the horse??

But again, if the horse is certain to go downhill quickly then OF COURSE it is best to put him down!!! My beef is with the people who basically advocate putting him down because it is expensive to keep a useless horse, even if he is sound and healthy. THAT is what I have an issue with.

Most are recommending euthanasia due to the horse's condition NOT because he's unrideable; I further suspect that most have followed OP's posts re this horse (& another PRE she has that did respond to treatment) or looked at her history before suggesting she pursue euthanasia of this particular horse.

I am one who mentioned the costs of keeping an unusable horse as one of the factors to consider when making the decision to euthanize. However, I'm pretty sure I never said I thought it was OK to euthanize a "sound and healthy" animal. This horse is neither sound nor healthy, IMO.

I have the space to keep a horse that can no longer be used. If the OP does not, and is not of unlimited means, I would not presume to judge her if that factored into her decision.

Euthanasia is a foregone conclusion with a horse with this disease. It's simply a matter of when. I don't think they give you a prize for holding out until the horse can't get up.

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Originally Posted by Laurierace

Euthanasia is a foregone conclusion with a horse with this disease. It's simply a matter of when. I don't think they give you a prize for holding out until the horse can't get up.

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Although you would think with the way people keep horses alive with many different conditions until they are suffering in agony, there IS some sort of prize :(

The worst are the foundered horses. I have seen so many owners keep them alive forever, even when they spend hours on the ground writhing in pain. I don't get it.

Neuro horses are often similar.

I further suspect that most have followed OP's posts re this horse (& another PRE she has that did respond to treatment) or looked at her history

No, I have not. So why is the vet so adverse to euthing the horse if he is not in fact pasture sound and relatively healthy??? This is what I don't understand. The vet is clearly more aware of the horse's situation than any of us are.

If the OP does not, and is not of unlimited means, I would not presume to judge her if that factored into her decision.

I stand by my previous words regarding this topic.

Medical practitioners do not all share identical views when it comes to the subject of death and dying. Some will perform certain procedures and some will not, based upon their personal beliefs. This is arguably well within their rights as individuals, but it does get into blurry-line territory sometimes. It is incorrect to presume that since one vet (using euthanasia of a non-terminally-ill or -injured animal as an example) will not agree to euthanize then ALL vets would refuse.

Ethics, if being applied correctly, are very rarely "cut and dry". The "no brainer" decisions generally are not in the realm of the difficult things we typically see as "ethical dilemmas". :)

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Originally Posted by Donella

I further suspect that most have followed OP's posts re this horse (& another PRE she has that did respond to treatment) or looked at her history

No, I have not. So why is the vet so adverse to euthing the horse if he is not in fact pasture sound and relatively healthy??? This is what I don't understand. The vet is clearly more aware of the horse's situation than any of us are.

If the OP does not, and is not of unlimited means, I would not presume to judge her if that factored into her decision.

I stand by my previous words regarding this topic.

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I am betting this horse is insured...maybe the OP can shed some light on that?

My horse that should have been put down was refused by several vets. In hindsight I should have just done it and waved the insurance money. When a vet sees a horse is insured they are very hesitant to euthanize. At that point you just have to make your own decision and assure them you will not be making a claim and let them know they don't have to sign the papers or do a necropsy.

Such a personal and difficult decision.

I have known neuro horses to deteriorate fast, and others to live 15 years as pasture ornaments with no progression.

My pesonal view is that if you have the resources and the money to retire him safely then do so. If not, then euthanasia is a very understandable option.

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Originally Posted by Donella

I further suspect that most have followed OP's posts re this horse (& another PRE she has that did respond to treatment) or looked at her history

No, I have not. So why is the vet so adverse to euthing the horse if he is not in fact pasture sound and relatively healthy??? This is what I don't understand. The vet is clearly more aware of the horse's situation than any of us are.

If the OP does not, and is not of unlimited means, I would not presume to judge her if that factored into her decision.

I stand by my previous words regarding this topic.

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Feeling as strongly as you do, is there any chance you would offer this horse a home - assuming that horse is able to make the trip & OP pays shipping?

I can't help but feel that the breeder should be stepping forward in some sort of capacity ...
(NOT implying that Donella has anything to do with this horse previous to reading this topic)

I'm sorry op. I have one I have kept for 20 yrs, paying board on him and he has been unrideable all that time. Very expensive and not so finacially wise.

I'm lucky they are at a barn now, surrounded by fox hunters and hunters. The BO has a neighbor who uses a gun, and that most boarders prefer that over the chemical euth.

We have one of these poor guys at my barn. The vitamin E treatment worked for a bit, but he continues to struggle with his balance. He is not in pain, but he is completely unsafe to ride since he loses control of his back end frequently. He's even a bit unsafe to be around in the field as I found out when he almost fell on me one day. He's been found on the ground a few times since he can't always get back up after rolling so everyone keeps as eye on him. Generally, he is a happy pasture puff. Not everyone has the resources his owner does to provide lifetime retirement - and he has been this way for 6 or 7 years now. If he gets worse, and he will, she will opt to euthanize.

OP, I'm sorry your horse has this.

Feeling as strongly as you do, is there any chance you would offer this horse a home - assuming that horse is able to make the trip & OP pays shipping?

I can't help but feel that the breeder should be stepping forward in some sort of capacity ...
(NOT implying that Donella has anything to do with this horse previous to reading this topic)

I would love to be able to take every horse that is no longer sound and give it a home but obviously I am not able to do that...is anyone?? I read ads on kijiji all the time where the owners are threatening the local auction if not sold by so and so date ect. It breaks my heart.

On the other hand, if I had bred the horse there is no question I would feel responsible and would take the horse (if euthanasia is not the best option)...as I would do for any horse that I have bred. I HOPE that if a horse bred by me ends up in a situation where the owner cannot afford to retire it that I will be notified.

Losing control of the hind end and falling repeatedly in the field is no way to live though , so if that is what is happening with the OP's horse I would definitely find a vet that will euth. I can't imagine a vet that would not.

From an earlier thread by OP

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As soon as we got him, he started dropping weight and losing muscle and showing signs of muscle atrophy. She went to one show (did great) but then he started to really crash. We took him to Cornell (local for us) and we got a confirmed from biopsy diagnosis of early stage equine motor neuron disease.

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Call me a cynic but I suspect that the prev owner had a reason to sell this horse "priced to move" ...

The breeder has significant acreage so perhaps the OP might contact them & find a retirement option there, if horse is indeed pasture sound AND able to make the journey without distress.

Iberiansyes I cannot imagine how heartbreaking this has been for you & your family :cry: