Count me in the " baby dog " camp. But I am even worse, as I have never had a dog that would crate. They all did fine in a basket next to bed where I could lean over and lay a hand on them. PITA, yes. Sleep deprivation, yes. But I see a puppy as closer to a human baby than anything else and know what I signed up for. It doesnt last long and they grow up so fast, I can take the time.
I know lots of people do it successfully and I dont have a problem with it in theory but in reality I dont want my puppy to feel abandoned. By the time I would begin crate training, they are house trained and on a leash all the time for the most part so the need has never been there.
Just throwing this out as a random FYI. I know many people who do not crate because "they never need to." These are the same dogs that scream, pace, dig, and endlessly circle in crates at the vet's office or throw on the brakes and freak out when presented with the open cage.
I always wish these dogs had experience in crates prior to being with us because it adds in another unnecessary source of stress. The dog's that have crate training are obvious because they hop into the crate, circle, and lay down. They might bark if other dogs are also barking but they are relaxed and settle in quicker because the crate is a familiar and safe environment for them.
OP, even if you don't crate overnight please consider the importance of getting your dog comfortable in a crate for the vet's office or emergency travel.
I kept my puppy in a pet carrier on the bed. That way if she cried, I could stick my fingers thru the door and pet her. Usually she would go back to sleep pretty quickly. If she didn't that meant potty time. It certainly let me get more sleep. She settled more easily being in the room with me. When I first tried to crate her it was big enough that it had to be out in the other room. She cried really loud on and off all night.
This is the main reason I crate train -I'd hate for the first time my dog is crated is in an emergency medical situation, boarding, or evacuation scenario. Of course it also helped with potty training, but it's just like when my horse came with no blanketing experience -it wasn't like he was going to get blanketed alot, but it would help for him to be familiar with it.
Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain
Our last puppy was taken from her mom, shipped up to MA from TN with her littermates and the next morning brought home with us -- traumatic day for a little puppy!
We are very much a "dog is a dog" family, so puppy was absolutely expected to sleep in her crate at night when she was young. Her first night she cried non-stop (we did the same thing of taking her out every 3 hours to ensure it wasn't a potty problem). By 4 AM my dad had had it, he took a soft wool sweater he'd worn earlier in the week (that he didn't feel too strongly about), wrapped a ticking clock in it and placed it in the crate with her -- puppy fell instantly asleep. She just needed the comfort smell and sounds of someone nearby :) Never had an issue with her again and her crate became "her" space where we wouldn't interfere with her. When she got too big for it she upgraded to the oriental carpet under the dining room table -- talk about a luxurious mansion of a "crate"! :lol:
Have you spoken with the breeder? you may have ended up with the "wrong" pup for your household & another, more independent pup may suit you better - especially if breeder has crate trained & prepared pups for their Big Adventure.
Originally Posted by EnterpriseValue
When you bring a new pup home, it's beneficial if you have a week or so to dedicate to settling the new pup: sometimes an older pup (e.g., 14 weeks rather then 8weeks) that is already crate trained & more independent is a better match for a busy household.
Definitely call the breeder & chat - no one knows that pup better :yes:
I agree that crate training is part of basic training. IMHO, it's something that the pups need to learn and preferably, learn to love. As someone whose dog has been hospitalized and thus crated on multiple occasions, I can definitely see the benefit of having that training down ahead of time. Even further, to have them crate trained sufficiently that you can get down in the crate with them as opposed to having them be territorial of the crate.
When my boy was really ill, techs would literally get IN the crate with him at the hospital to change out IVs, give meds, feed, and soothe him.
The biggest crate "problem" I have at my house is that when I put the crate back up for a guest dog, all 3 try to pile in at the same time!
Good luck OP. Hope you get some sleep!
Raised/showed Labs for years. Now have an Irish Wolfhound, so crate is not doable, and really adds stress, even though my IW is sweet. As she is an older dog, and very anti having to pee in nasty weather, I really miss the crate option at night.
The ticking clock suggestions are spot on, and I would include a big old towel, old soft blanket. My labs would sometimes chew theirs, especially as pups, but that's par for the course.
Also helps to take them out one last time late at night, then be up earrrrly in the morning. You can stretch out the time in the crate as the pup gets older. AND to give the pup plenty of exercise during the day.
My labbies loved their crates. We did a lot of traveling, and they were also MUCH less stressed being able to relax in them, rather than worry about having to guard the whole house.
I am the wicked witch of the midwest.
I don't mean leave him in there all night on the cold hard floor so he cries himself to sleep and then wakes up in his own urine. *sigh* I do mean what I said about trying *really* hard to take him out when he's not crying. Even if that means you take him out an hour ahead of the schedule or whatever.
Here's why. All my dogs have been crated trained. For some it is life or death, as they have an affinity to eat things they shouldn't and can't digest (couches incuded). I have the vet bills to show for this.
My last puppy was crate trained when I got her at 11 weeks. Was a lovely thing done by the breeder, that's for sure. My husband (who did not grow up with house dogs) completely ruined it when I was on a work trip. He also let her on the furniture so they could cuddle. As a six year old she sleeps in the bed with us. Now that she has cancer in her leg I worry about what will happen when it hurts more and someone rolls. Anyway, she also thinks she's going to die if she's kenneled. She has a VERY loud whine. I just want to spare you this lifelong annoyment. Plus it is anxiety for her she didn't need to have. She really did like her crate initially.
My other dog, who was not spared the crate by my husband in a key developmental stage, is lovely and actually likes to go into his crate. It is much easier to take a dog like that to a hotel and to travel with as well. He is confident he is safe in his crate and can relax.
Anyway, stepping off my soap box. ;)
Oh, I don't think you're on a soap box at all. Different strokes for different folks. I know people who INSIST their dog CAN'T/WON'T crate...had a roommate like that. She arrived at my home with a fear biting, wouldn't eat on a schedule, wouldn't crate, ate shoes, peed in the house, mess of a dog. Within a few weeks, she learned the house rules and all of that was resolved. Largely due to crate training. I think it's an excellent tool. That same dog comes and stays with us when my old roommate goes out of town. While she does not have any of the "rules" at her house, at my house, she knows the drill.
I'm sorry to hear about the cancer. That totally sucks.
And I agree...being able to crate as needed and having the dog actually LIKE the crate can be so convenient and helpful.
I don't have a crate in the house but my dogs all go in a crate (or wherever else I ask them to go) and cope just fine when they're there. Even my freaky worrier went right into the kennel at the vet's and when I asked the tech how she did (I was afraid of the howling hound panic attack noise they would have to endure all afternoon as she came out of surgery) but they said fine until she heard your voice at the front desk!
Mine aren't crate trained but they are disciplined and are very used to being "put away" for a while. I've never had a problem putting them up somewhere and on the very rare occasions they've been to the vet long enough to be put in a kennel they were fine.
Point taken but I wouldn't overgeneralize.
Originally Posted by TrotTrotPumpkn
TTP, all of my dogs are crate trained as well. All of them are totally happy to go into their crates and also do very well at the vet where they have to be confined. We have no problems with crating here.
Our new puppy, who is just shy of 6 months now, is JUST out of her crate at night (she is still in the crate when we're not home.) She now gets to sleep loose in the bedroom on the dog couch. But previously, she slept in the crate, in the bedroom, where she could see the people and the other dog. When my husband travels, she would sleep on the bed with me and the other dog (for warmth--I freeze my ass off sleeping alone!) Occasional sleeping on the bed did not "ruin" the puppy for the crate. She was just as happy to go sleep in the crate when she had to. She was also on the bed for the first few days.
Taking a baby dog away from it's littermates and dam and asking it to sleep in a crate in a separate part of the house with no crate training beforehand is terribly unfair to the dog, IMO. It has no idea what you want. Continuing to ask the dog to sleep in the crate in a separate part of the house is unlikely, IMO, to teach the dog anything other than to NOT like the crate. If anything, it sounds like the upset, anxious behavior is ramping, not resolving, which hints at a future full of separation and crate anxiety.
Perhaps we're not as far apart on this issue as it may seem, since you say you wouldn't leave the puppy to cry himself to sleep. It sounded in your first post that that was exactly what you were advocating.
Exactly. No crate doesnt equal no rules/no discipline. In my dogs world, it means more, because I never "put them away".
Originally Posted by cowboymom
When I send a puppy home with its new owners, I always send with it a large soft plush toy that has been rubbed all over its siblings and its mom and me. I tell them to put it in the crate with the puppy at night so that it has familiar smells around and something to cuddle up with. I've not heard any complaints about my puppies crying at night.
I live in an 1892 rowhouse with 2 shared walls. My neighbor has a corgi and two dachshunds and is of the "I won't crate train" opinion.
About a month ago, the corgi was diagnosed with a spinal condition that necessitated surgery and confinement for 4-6 weeks. In a crate.
I work from home. This is unbearable. The corgi sounds like someone is killing it with a drill, and that has prompted the dachsunds to start, too. I cannot imagine the dog (with a spinal condition, no less) is not in serious distress.
All dogs should learn how to remain quiet in a crate. Heaven forbid anything happen that the dog needed to be confined for medical reasons, crates are the easiest, safest way to do it.
I would also consider the possibility that he's cold - sleeping alone, even at room temperature, is not what a young puppy would choose. I would definitely think about using a hot water bottle and/or getting a heating mat (that they can sleep on OR next to OR choose not to sleep on as well...make sure not to cover the entire bottom of a crate with one).
It is a big stretch to expect a young puppy to go from a litter and mom to sleeping alone in a crate away from its "people." Obviously people do this all the time and eventually they figure it out, but it's not pleasant at first.
We always kept our puppy crates in our bedroom so that the puppy knew we were there. One puppy was a big cry baby and got invited into bed fairly early on; the 2nd puppy was the best crate sleeper and was dead to the world from 9:30 to 5:30am every single night; and the 3rd puppy slept ok in the crate, but tended to move around a lot, make a lot of noise, and did some whining (and got invited into bed pretty quick too).
In retrospect, I think puppies #1 and #3 might have been cold - we got one in November, and the other in March. When we invited puppy #3 in bed with us, he slept on my head, and put his nose in my ear. I think he really was cold unless he could snuggle up with something.
Not everyone likes a bed dog, so if you do not - I definitely suggest finding some for it to snuggle with at night.
And yes, crate training is a great thing - even if your dogs sleep in bed. It makes so many things so much easier if your dog enjoys being in a crate -- dog shows, trips in the car, dog classes that are long enough to have a break. I love having a dog that is good about crating.
DH and I have gotten 5 puppies since we got together 5 years ago and all but Puppy #2 were extremely easy to crate train. The others would cry for 30 minutes or so when we first put them in the crate for a few nights and then get over it. Pumpkin, on the other hand, cried for hours several nights in a row even though she was in our bedroom with us. We got fed up after a few nights of this and stuck our 8 month old (at the time) male Aussie in the crate with her. It shut her up and they bunked together for a few weeks like that until she was house trained.
Puppy is 8 weeks old and just a little thing. He does have a cozy fleece blanket in the crate and a chew bone and a fluffy toy. Doesn't pay much mind to either in there.
We did try the crate in the bedroom last night, and it wasn't any better so we gave in, got him quiet and let him in bed. He was zonked in about 2 minutes and slept through until about 4:45. Woke us up went out, came back, chewed on bone a bit and then zonked again until i woke up for work (7am).
We will eventually NOT crate him once he is trustworthy ( all of our ther dogs have gone through this process- most were never crated again unless ill etc). Bur we need for him to be comfortable while he is left during the day for now and i would prefer he is in there at night just for housebreaking reasons.
I think i will try the water bottle and ticking clock idea- rocking him to sleep and the placing very carefully into bed.