I'm hardly an expert, but it seems to me that not many competitors in the U.S. care much about the stallion being "approved". Eventers seem to care about performance and the prepotency of the stallion.
Perhaps it would matter if you are breeding eventers to sell in the U.K. or Europe, but is that really what U.S. breeders are trying to do?
I think we can make our own very well, if we put our minds to it, without the approval process. Of course some folks will pay more for the approved.
I know of the following:
A Fine Romance
I think all the above except Best Minister and Rodeo are approved by ISR/ONA, although A Fine Romance and Sea Accounts are not on their current stallion roster (maybe were not activated for 2012?).
Rodeo and Sea Accounts are approved by OHBS/GOV, but Rodeo was apparently not activated for 2012. I believe he may also be approved for Danish WB breeding.
Best Minister and Goldmaker are listed in studbook I with RPSI. I thought someone had posted on the other thread that RPSI required 90 pts at the SPT for breeding approval, and Baatesh had 85 points, but I believe Goldmaker earned less than 90 pts last year (88.70), so perhaps they would also accept Baatesh into Book I.
But if the offspring are not being being DNA'd for parentage verification, and the confirmed bloodlines are not recorded into a database, how do breeders know what works and doesn't work? (And yes, I know JC requires live cover, but breeders can always register with PHR.)
Originally Posted by skydy
Also, as has been pointed out many times on this forum and others, sometimes registration papers can help a horse land softly later in life. It's often easier to market and place a "registered" horse whose identity can be confirmed, than an unregistered one with no known history - esp. if it is a mare.
I don't believe Sea Accounts has ever been on the Old na/Isr roster.
Originally Posted by DownYonder
He is approved GOV. and ATA.
I also noticed that RPSI has been approving stallions with less than 90 points.
Last year there was one approved RPSI with less than 90 points and this year if Baatesh was approved then there were two RPSI approvals with less than 90 points.
I could not find anything on the RPSI website that stated they require 90 points, although that was the value they did require in the past.
All the website currently says is 'successfully completed' but I can't find any definition of what 'successfully completed' means. Anybody know?
I am learning. ha ha
Based on information gathered here, I think if I were stallion shopping, I would be most curious about the tb stallion "Rather Well" paticularly if I were looking specifically at eventing. He has an impressive competition record through Advanced, and remaining sound through the rigors of eventing is an approval process in itself. How are his offspring doing?
Age also becomes a factor. Stallions up and around 20 years of age are possibly in danger of less motility in semen... not a fact for sure, but a consideration. Individual cases may vary of course.
Both Innkeeper and A Fine Romance hold very high regard as well.
In the ranks of CSH approvals, even stallions who stand at Ravine Ranch are certainly very good free moving strong individuals... who's main job is in the breeding shed... and this is looking at the PMU farms. Hey a good horse is a good horse and who doesn't mind a bargain now and then?
You can see short vido clips on their pages here. Mind you a clip doesn't say a lot but I think the ingredients are there.
I took a chance and bought a filly from their program this year. As an older person and not necessarily looking for "star" quality, I made temperament and amateur friendly as my highest priorities in stating my "wants"... well I am very pleasantly surprised at the result. She carries 5/8 Hanoverian blood plus equal portions of (tb, APHA and Percheron) in the mix. She comes papered as CSH. For me... right now... in my life... She is just right.
Sorry to run off on a tangent but it is all connected... one way or another. ha ha
Originally Posted by Sheila A
Very likely she doesn't. If he is recorded in Studbook II she would only have the half brand.
RPSI's brand is a bridge with a crown over it, symbolizing the bridge over the Rhine River and the crown of the duke who founded the German breeding program. Foals born to a mare and stallion with four generations of registered bloodline excellence receive a full brand with a crown. Those pedigrees with fewer generations or an unregistered ancestor receive a half brand. All foals are branded with the last two digits of their life number under the RPSI brand, which serves as a lifelong identifying mark and appears in their passport registration papers.
Shows the full brand on upper left corner. Half brand has the crown above the arches removed
Hunters Peak TB stallion Minister General (Deputy Minister x Rosa's Cantina) is an ISR/OLD N/A approved stallion.
How can you say this and not post a picture? Especially since you take beautiful pictures?!?!
Originally Posted by Hocus Focus
HF - LOVE LOVE LOVE Rather Well! He's the "real deal" for sure and one of those little known / little used stallions
I owned his dam way back when (should NEVER have sold that one!) and Rather Well was the result when Garry Roque leased her to breed to his stallion - Raj Kapoor
He jumps a "10" consistently, is brave and forward and quick. His offspring all appear to be the same
Check out his FB page - there are some really incredible pictures of him on there as well as his offspring
And I believe he is only approved CSHA but due to his Advanced Level eventing status his foals should get the nod to be registered in various WB registries due to his performance record
My thoughts mostly apply to breeding eventers with the biggest issue being that people in the US don't really buy young event prospects. They want a horse that is already going. There are exceptions of course. The really superbly bred foals from VERY proven or exciting lines may sell as foals, but if you are breeding anything less, you need to be prepared to 1) keep it till it is competing or 2)produce something that will also be appealing to a dressage or H/J and in that case, if they don't know and love the parents, a brand really helps. Of course there is option 3- sell for peanuts but I don't know anyone who wants to breed and sell at a loss.
If I was in a position to know that I could keep any foal I produced forever and never have to worry about it being marketable I would probably use a lot of the TB stallions that appeal to me, but in the current financial climate, I can't imagine producing an unregisterable foal (unless I am breeding something like Headley Brittania to Flertwater Opposition, in which case the bloodlines sell themselves- and I believe even HB's foals are being registered)
ha ha... Ok. I will give you a preview. She is just a baby remember and has much maturing to do..but for me, she is a Fun horse, and a good one. Remember these are taken in the frozen north and she has her winter woolies. So here's a peek for the open mind...ha
Originally Posted by Nootka
OMG she looks super sweet!!
She looks like a sturdy little thang and red is sooo her color :)
I agree completely with JWB. I do breed Eventers and would not breed either an unapproved mare or to an unapproved stallion, no matter how nice. If they are that nice, then get approvals on them. I have bred to TB stallions like Fred, but unfortunately, the TB crosses or full TBs will not bring any money until they are out winning.
I still like TBs and even bought a very nice mare off the track this year to compete and then breed, but unless you are breeding for yourself, it is very hard to sell a cross as a baby.
Not the way it should be, but that's what happens...
He is not approved. He is not on the current stallion roster. http://www.isroldenburg.org/?pid=sta...b0c10ded534c54
Originally Posted by Hunters Peak
He is approved, just not currently active. I have his 2009 daughter branded and papered in my barn. She was inspected and branded at the Summit Sporthorse inspection in 2010.
He is not on the inactive list either. If he was never presented for inspection, he was never approved. He did not earn anywhere close to enough on the track to be approved without going through a performance test either, and I truly doubt he did a 70/100 day test. It's easy enough to research. It's the same thing as the Grand Sovereign stallion on your site being advertised as approved RPSI when he is not. He is simply recorded into Stud Book II as he has no performance record/test.
Originally Posted by Hunters Peak
The baby probably has an ISR brand which means one or both parents are not approved.
Mare has the Oldenburg brand not ISR brand. I'm sure her owner will be more than happy to provide you with a copy of her papers. Plus, pictures of her with the brand. In fact, there are pictures from 2010 Warrenton Horse show clearly showing her brand. The inspection was only two weeks prior to the show. Since your an expert, I'm sure you are well aware they won't put the Oldenburg brand on foal by an unapproved stallion. Odd that Couture Du Jour (Minister General x Grande Desire) does indeed have the brand, and registration papers.
Enough of the quibbling. Nobody benefits from that.
You are probably right about Sea Accounts - for some reason I thought he had been licensed by ISR at one point.
Originally Posted by PINE TREE FARM SC
This is a rather amusing statement because ISR/ONA routinely puts the "Oldenburg" brand on foals sired by stallions that are not considered approved or even eligible for approval by the Oldenburg Verband. A recent example is the Don de Marco situation...
Originally Posted by Hunters Peak
But it seems it would be easy enough to look up Minister General in past ISR/ONA stallion books to confirm whether he was in fact licensed. Perhaps Hunters Peak can tell us when and where he was inspected?