Horse Won't Turn Right ONLY Undersaddle - A Little More Info Post 87

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Originally Posted by EqTrainer

Great idea but I dont think you could pay someone enough to try it ;) however trying different saddles is on the agenda.

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How bad is he when asked to turn right? Has anyone inspected the tree points? What about the flocking? Since it's just with weight and he's fine without, I'm wondering where the rider's seat bones hit. Or do they have a tight thigh that might be pressing something?

I'm still stuck in the fine without weight, but not fine with. I'd want to pinpoint exactly what is up with the addition of weight before spending $$$ on scans. But that reflects my current budget and your client may have a different situation. ;)

Tried a different saddle today, with him on the longe, rider on him. He was very good. Added leg aids one at a time, added rein aids, not quite as forward but a huge improvement. Will do this for a few days I think and then try a ride off the longe....

When you try it off the lunge try the rein and leg and seat separate and let us know how he did.

And get video!!! :D

Thanks for helping EqT out with all of these suggestions and experiences. I am said horse's owner. I can answer some of these questions while EqT is busy with life. lol

SAcres: xrays of his front feet show very very flat feet, he has very very low heels. We are readying his feet to be properly shod to raise his heels. Also, his soles are very thin and he is only 6 yo. I do not think P3 was in the xray, TBH Just P1 and P2 and both are lovely. I am pretty sure more xrays are in my future...kaCHING

rabicon: when he was younger, he liked to test you and try to buck you off. He doesn't do that anymore at this moment. BUT he has ALWAYS been reluctant to go forward since the get-go.

Note: this not wanting to go forward has been an ongoing situation since we began backing him at 3 and it has been intermittent When this horse goes, he rocks and it feels awesome.

salymander: we gave him doxy for 30 days, then retested after the doxy both blood and neauro tests and he was clean as a whistle (where does this saying come from...jeez...are whistles clean?) His shoulders were xrayed for OCD, which he did not have.

Lilykoi: I have an awesome dentist but medicine is not an exact science. I do wonder if something is bothering him in the mouth. I do want to ride him in a bitless just to see, but we are on the saddle track right now.

rabicon: he does NOT want to turn to the right on a very loose rein with no leg aids. as a test I had been stopping him (because I don't want him to go backwards), using my outer leg, and my inside rein and he'll turn but then as he goes forward, reins loose, he pulls on my right rein and goes to the left...like riding a pony that circles only to the left! haha bleh..... sigh Also he will listen to my seat and leg aids as I try to turn him but he gets into shaking his head and throwing it up. One gets to a point where ok...this feels physical but how mental will it become?! Gastrogard testing is on the list too!

yes, this horse is a star on the lunge line with me in the saddle. I'm not heavy just FYI LOL I don't think LMEqT will be part of the experiment but it gave me a laugh, JB! This colt is for advanced riders.

We are using a different saddle right now and he has been doing great on the lunge.

I'll let EqT explain difficult but suffice it to say this is a good colt, very social, very smart...too smart? He loves people, there is not a mean bone in his body but he is a very dominant horse and the kind of horse you do NOT want to get into a fight with as, unless it is a big spanking, he sees this as "fun". But she has done more 'behind the scenes' work with him than I have

We had him pulling a cart last fall and he LOVED it, but - alas- a crossbow went off and the cart broke and human things have happened such that we have not gotten him back into harness (cart stuff is with another person, not EqT) He really enjoyed the cart. There was no fear of going forward, but I'd like to get him hitched back up after we do some of these experiments and see.

Jen LOLOL no my situation is similar to yours...unfortunately.....anne

Do you have some decent hill to walk up and down? In dealing with Rio's issue, I find he does much better when I hand walk him (or ride as his fitness gets better) down to the river which involves a couple of hills. The steep ones are short, and shallower ones are longer, so there's a good mix. I find it does something to him that allows him to function (better) with weight on his back.

No, no hills :( I wish! I do have a "hill" next to my garage I like to take the horses up and down but it is short and not prolonged.

Give it a try anyway. Spend 15 minutes going up and down and across the hill, not just straight up and down. It would just be interesting to see if the force, unweighted work of tucking the butt and pushing, along with the break of going across the hill, might unlock something.

Great idea. This horse has always been rather stiff in his topline in general, anything that gets it moving is a good thing.

He was pretty fantastic on the longe today, I am really beginning to wonder how much the saddle was affecting him.. If so, just goes to prove they truly have the last word on saddle fit!

I don't know if you do this, but after I tack my horse up I always pick up each front leg and stretch it forward (like they do at the track). He is a little asymmetric, and if I use a saddle that doesn't fit perfectly (too wide), he resists me picking up his right leg. I'm not sure why, but it seems like the saddle is pinching a nerve? I wonder if it could be something like this with your guy? Worth a shot, maybe?

The refusal to go forward and an issue getting him going and then when he does go he is amazing would make me wonder even more about kissing spine. Usually once you have them rounding the top line they don't have the pain as when hollowed and are happy to go. But then the head shaking and not turning off that rein only makes me wonder about something in the mouth. I would try a bit less or if you trust him enough a halter with clip on reins and see how that goes. I don't think it's so much in his head and is a head case. It really sounds like something is bothering him. Has he ever jumped? Could you teach him a few xrails and then try I'm on a 3 jump course with the right turns in it. Of course spread far apart in the ring and see maybe if he is just bored and is protesting or if the change up with something new and exciting if he is better.

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Originally Posted by orenda

Jen LOLOL no my situation is similar to yours...unfortunately.....anne

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Darn! I was hoping that I was the only one. ;)

As an aside to JB's comment, Sally Vivrette (DVM extraordinaire IMHO) once mentioned that she thinks that downward hill work, especially with walking a few steps, halt, walk off again, rinse/repeat, while staying "connected," is better for topline building/stifle strengthing than just up/down hills.

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Originally Posted by orenda

SAcres: xrays of his front feet show very very flat feet, he has very very low heels. We are readying his feet to be properly shod to raise his heels. Also, his soles are very thin and he is only 6 yo.

when he was younger, he liked to test you and try to buck you off. He doesn't do that anymore at this moment. BUT he has ALWAYS been reluctant to go forward since the get-go.

this not wanting to go forward has been an ongoing situation since we began backing him at 3 and it has been intermittent When this horse goes, he rocks and it feels awesome.

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I believe you answer is in the middle of all of this.

Thin soles, reluctant to go forward all going to go hand in hand-then depending on how all other things line up, conformation, if one foot is thinner than another, you end up with turning issues.

It will be most interesting to see if both the go forward and turn issues resolve when his feet are comfortable.

Yes LMH it will be.. Waiting on the good farrier to get wedge shoes and time to do the work. However I am not terribly optimistic as the horse moves so freely forward at liberty and on the longe. The last few rides in a different saddle have been remarkable so it may be that in spite of his own saddle fitted, he prefers mine LOL since I wont sell it but shoes can be bought every five weeks, I would prefer the shoes to be the magic bullet!

Are you sure he isn't just being a pain in the butt? Has anyone actually gotten after him to turn and go forward? Now that you say he will turn and go forward, then veer back the other way, and that when he is thinking and going forward, he goes well.... yes, it could be kissing spine... but if no one has ever picked the fight to just see if he is just being stubborn, it may be something to do. He may have figured out that he gets out of work (or working hard) if he is stubborn about it.

Just another thing to add to the list of things to think about! LOL

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Originally Posted by EqTrainer

Yes LMH it will be.. Waiting on the good farrier to get wedge shoes and time to do the work. However I am not terribly optimistic as the horse moves so freely forward at liberty and on the longe. The last few rides in a different saddle have been remarkable so it may be that in spite of his own saddle fitted, he prefers mine LOL since I wont sell it but shoes can be bought every five weeks, I would prefer the shoes to be the magic bullet!

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Hmmmmm.....I may have spoken to soon then.

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Originally Posted by jen-s

Darn! I was hoping that I was the only one. ;)

As an aside to JB's comment, Sally Vivrette (DVM extraordinaire IMHO) once mentioned that she thinks that downward hill work, especially with walking a few steps, halt, walk off again, rinse/repeat, while staying "connected," is better for topline building/stifle strengthing than just up/down hills.

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That's really, really interesting! I am going to make note of that. Oh Rio.... :D

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Originally Posted by jen-s

As an aside to JB's comment, Sally Vivrette (DVM extraordinaire IMHO) once mentioned that she thinks that downward hill work, especially with walking a few steps, halt, walk off again, rinse/repeat, while staying "connected," is better for topline building/stifle strengthing than just up/down hills.

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I can TOTALLY see this.

The thing to consider (in general) however is straightness-without that any 'building' is not going to be in a way to carry the body balanced.

I would also be interested to know what someone observed that was familiar with Masterson Method bodywork...as far as the OP horse is concerned.

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Originally Posted by KentuckyTBs

Are you sure he isn't just being a pain in the butt? Has anyone actually gotten after him to turn and go forward? Now that you say he will turn and go forward, then veer back the other way, and that when he is thinking and going forward, he goes well.... yes, it could be kissing spine... but if no one has ever picked the fight to just see if he is just being stubborn, it may be something to do. He may have figured out that he gets out of work (or working hard) if he is stubborn about it.

Just another thing to add to the list of things to think about! LOL

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Yes. We have considered that he is just a PITA. However, it feels different than that IMO and IME.. And there has been possibly some manifestation of it since day one undersaddle. The fact that he is dominant and doesnt come by a natural work ethic/desire to work is not lost on me ;) but allllll the other aids appear to be in place and understood so why this one thing... I am meticulous about teaching aids on the ground and then bridging to undersaddle and he is happily compliant but for this one thing :(

So IME if I go after a horse who does not understand the question, I will get tossed... If I go after one in pain, I will get tossed.. If they are just being a twit, they join the world.