ID and voting
I don't want to start a fight, I just want to understand this.
If you are a citizen how difficult is it to obtain an ID card?
If you have no form of ID isn't it quite difficult to do many things?
I really just don't understand why people say it is so bad/racist/discriminatory/whatever to be required to have some form of ID to vote.
Simply put, a lot of old/disabled/poor/whatever the case may be, do not have current ID of any kind and have difficulty getting it. That is why it is discriminatory. Even if you are a citizen, you still have to pay money and go through hoops to get an ID.
I'll give you an example. I am not old nor poor nor disabled, however, I had a hell of a time getting my DL renewed this year.
1) Transportation: I wrecked my car. There is virtually no public transportation available to me here. So if you don't already HAVE a vehicle, it would be hard to get to the SOS to get an id.
2) Available hours/working: I'm lucky in my job that I have a lot of flexibility. When I need to go to SOS and sit and wait for an hour or more, I can do that. Any time they're open. But they're only open banker's hours all but one day per week. If you can't get off work, it could be hard to get in.
3) Documentation: When I first moved to MI, I had a valid DL from TX. I was however, living in a condo being rented/paid for by my company that relocated me. Here in MI you have to have a utility bill in your name with your MI address on it as one of your documents. I had a PASSPORT, a valid DL, and they STILL wanted me to have a bill and another form of ID. WTH? I had a passport!
So if you don't have access to good transport, don't have a very flexible schedule, live with a family member or rent a place where utilities are included, or simply don't have the $$, I can see that it would be difficult to procure an ID.
Flip side, I honestly do not know how people get by without photo ID. I get asked for my photo id for everything from getting my age confirmed to buy alcohol, to using my visa card, to renting a car...shoot, even the veterinary hospital now requires a state issued photo id in order to send home controlled substances.
It's not quite as hard as some would have you believe. And since you have to show ID at banks, the airport, at the library to get a card or use their computers, to rent a video, to get a loan on anything, cash a check, show proof of ID if stopped by the police (heck...even if you are a witness to a car accident and call police they ask for ID), it isn't unreasonable to expect people to have an ID.
Those seniors and disabled people are probably collecting SS or disability...need an ID to cash the ck or a bank acct to direct deposit. They might use prescriptions and need ID to pick it up, and ID at a Dr's office.
It might be inconvenient to get an ID initially, but it's not like you have to go do it weekly...
lets say you are 80, and get SS. You pay your utilities, etc by check. You get your SS and pension cash via check. You walk to the bank. You then stop by the store or your daughter picks up your groceries or you live with family or in an assisted living place. You don't drive, don't have a driver's license. Don't travel.
When things expire, you don't renew...
You are 19 years old, live in a dorm at a big university in the city. Never had a driver's license -never needed one. Your parent's don't drive either. Parent's/pell grants/work study cover college costs. You are still a dependent on your parent's taxes...
Or you are 18 in the city -still in high school. Never driven a car. Don't have a need for ID. Dependents on your paren'ts. Live at home...
I don't understand how anyone gets along without a picture ID. To get on the military post I work at you either have a picture ID, whether driver or passenger, or you don't come on post. I guess if you never fly, cash a check, or even write a check, all of which require a picture ID everywhere I've lived, then I wonder if you vote either? Many of my mother's older relatives didn't have an ID, but they also didn't vote or drive either.
And locally, they let you use any form of mail addressed to you by name at the address as proof of residency. I'm sure not everywhere does that, but things vary so much, that the rules when moving confuse me.
The last two towns I've lived in issued picture ID's to all students higher than elementary school. I don't know if that's valid for voting and ID or not, but it is a picture ID.
NOT EVERY ONE IS INDEPENDENT! Not everyone lives by themselves. Some people are still dependents. Are still high school or college students. Or elderly, with set patterns that don't vary. OR homeless... homeless people deserve to vote to. No... they don't need ID to live on the streets or in shelters. But they still have the right to vote! You don't have to be "landed" to vote in this country.
Frankly, I don't get how people don't understand this.
Or you are 35 and live at home with your folks because you have autism or you lost your legs in Iraq. You don't go out, don't drive. Live on SS or a military pension or just are a dependent on your parents.
No need for a driver's license...
Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone has that perfect life? or that need for a photo ID?
Not many vote but the Amish and some sects of menonite have a religious reason for no pictures. And as other posted some seniors and young adults may not have cause at this point for a photo ID or be homeless without the funds to to get a photo ID
If you lost your legs in Iraq and lived off a military pension you'd have a permanent military ID because you would have been medically discharged with benefits.
Originally Posted by Cielo Azure
I think this should not take effect in this election (to short a time frame), but I do think it should be for the next. That leaves plenty of time to arrange for one (and get needed documentation), which would be useful for plenty of other things.
I think we could come up with some way to make it less a burden; whether temporary locations to obtain one, free IDs, allow high school/college IDs, etc.
I also agree that it has to do with the trouble many voters would have in getting to the place to get the photo id ( age, health). These people would probably be absentee voters anyways which means anyone can vote for them. If you are a registered voter you will have a voter id card and since you can only vote once at the place your registered why would you need people to go to the extra hassle and expense of getting a photo id? Seems to me they need better ways of monitoring who they are sending ballots out to if stuffing the ballot box is the problem.
Student id anyone? In this state, the governor offered to send out a mobile id shop to take pictures of the elderly or infirm. Still not good enough. If you don't drive, there are still state ids available. Do not employers require some sort of ID?
In Michigan, you can renew via mail. The information is right on the SOS website. I know New York State is the same way because my grandmother renewed her driver's license long after she should have been allowed to have one, due to eyesight. In Maryland, you can renew online.
Originally Posted by BuddyRoo
Originally Posted by BuddyRoo
The only sticking point in these examples is the proof of residence. All states require a proof of residence, via a utility bill, credit card bills or rental agreements. In the state of Michigan, a credit card bill less than 90 days old is sufficient, so no matter who pays for where you live, in Michigan all you need is a credit card bill. If you do not have any credit cards, a lease agreement is also acceptable.
Originally Posted by Cielo Azure
In Georgia, need two proofs of address - as a minor or dependant, you can use a bank statement and an unexpired driver's license/ID of parent, guardian or spouse living in the same house.
The cost, in all the states I have gotten a Driver's License in (NJ, DE and MD), is less that $30. In Georgia, it seems every office is open at least from 8am to 6pm, Tue to Fri, most longer and include Sat hours. In Michigan, the offices are open from 9-5 on Mon, Tue, Thu and Fri. On Wed, they are open from 11-7. SUPER!Centers are open 9-7 Wed and 9-12 on Sat. In Maryland and DE, there are extended hours during the week and Sat hours.
So, now you are left with the transportation issue. I could probably solve that, as well, but I need more information as to where exactly you live and it will likely require more money and walking and waiting at bus or train stations.
I'm just saying, it isn't that difficult. The elderly man that lived on the property where I kept my horses managed to get his license (or ID) renewed (relative or friend drove him there). You guys can also. I faith in the abilities of the average US citizen.
^ your state is not all states.
In response to the depositing a check situation, no, I've never been asked for ID to simply deposit a check into my own checking account. If I'm withdrawing money, yes, but if I'm ONLY depositing, no.
Yes, employers generally require some sort of ID, but are the elderly (70s/80s) generally looking to be employable??
And getting a state photo ID still requires some sort of ride TO the DMV/Sec of State. Some elderly/carless people do NOT have people they can ask or people who are willing to take them.
If voting is important to you, you WILL find a way to get it done. After all, you find a way to the polling place, correct? In every situation you described, you would have a social security card. You can go to the police dept or the dmv and get a picture id.
Originally Posted by Cielo Azure
My 18 yr old does not have a drivers license-just a learners. She, however, has a social security card, a student id from high school, and a student id from college.
A picture id of some sort is important. No one wants to keep anyone with a legal right to vote from doing so, but personally, if you don't have a legal right to vote, then you should not be able to. Picture id is the only way I know to keep that directive. Why don't you think that a picture id is agood idea? Should just anyone be allowed to go up and vote? This leads to multiple voting and fraud. I live just south of you, and our county scans our drivers licenses for us to vote.
I think this is a useful thread because, until I had looked into this before, I never understood how someone could not have an ID. There are a lot of circumstances where people don't where those of us who do have one do not understand.
I hope the result of all of this is that eventually there will be some kind of easy access for all to ID. I don't think the problem is that people don't think there should be voter IDs, but that this sudden interest in having one coincides directly with trying to suppress votes in certain areas that could change the election.
One of the best examples I heard was an a poor person who did not have a job and did not drive (the working poor) living in counties where the DMV's are shut down. The only access to get one is counties away, and only open a few days a week during working hours. People in that situation are making the choice of losing work, and possibly the difference in just making it, to try to get an ID.
On the other side of things, why should anyone have to show a voter ID?
I voted last week. I just checked online and my ballot was received on November 1, 2012. I filled out my ballot in the comfort of my own home. I believe I was sitting in bed in my pajamas with my laptop! Last I heard, somewhere in the neighborhood of one-third of all ballots in my state has already been received.
There has been absolutely no issue with voter fraud and mail-in ballots. A friend of mine needed to redo her license last month. She's an intelligent, able bodied person and it took her THREE trips to the DMV to get her license. Most people already have a photo id, but some do not for whatever myriad reasons of life. They might be older. They might not drive. They might be indigent. Yet, everyone is entitled to the right to vote.
Top that off with the sheer inconvenience that many people have with getting to the polls on election day. I have heard of long lines for early election voting and voting on election day itself. Many people do not have the luxury to take time out of their day to make it to polling center. What happens if you are working a double shift? What portion of the population has car trouble on election day? Should the inconveniences of life deprive someone from voting on issues that will have repercussions on their life over the years?
A- you can't renew in MI via mail if you have to get your photo taken again or if you can't afford to renew at least 2 weeks prior as you won't get your tags in time.
Besides, to renew online, you have to have access to a computer and the internet. And for that, you at least need to be able to get to a library. And then, you have to have a bank account to pay for it because it's credit card payment.
Do you know how many of our 300 employees CANNOT GET a bank account due to financial issues? I mean they truly cannot open an account.
I'm not saying that's anyone's fault but theirs, but it is very real.
What kind of kills me about this argument (and I mean this all kind of tongue in cheek) is that I generally consider myself a Republican. But I feel like we need to come up with a way of making this easier for people.
I spent an entire weekend in DC w/ my husband and never got in a car. Public transport could get us anywhere we needed to go.
But here? Where I am in MI? I literally cannot get a taxi. Or take a bus. There is no such thing in my town. Forget getting to work or SOS from here!
Blew my mind. ONce I was without a car, I had to rent. No other way to get around here.