Is there a market for?
I will leave out most of the specifics as I am not trying to market the horse but am just curious if there would be a market for him as a dressage horse:
Former jumper who had some bad experience and will NOT jump anymore. Big (17.2) gentle hanoverian gelding. 12 years old, built uphill, well trained on the flat but would need a bit of reschooling to go more like a dressage horse and less like an equitation horse. 3 good gaits, not spooky, easy to ride, sound, sweet to handle.
Do you think people in the dressage world would give this type of horse a chance?
Maybe. People will want to know why he won't jump anymore (injury, mentally fried, etc.). Assuming he can do at least first level, maybe second as an equitation horse- I'd bet someone would want him at the right price.
I think so...assuming you price him right and be upfront that he needs a career change and is a project at this point in time.
In the meantime, anything you can do to enhance his ability as a Dressage prospect-lessons, try a competition etc. will help both him to learn and a buyer to see him.
I would also get a good vet evaluation so you know what is going on-he's high mileage and you know there will be some treadwear, avoid surprises.
Personally, being over the jumping experience is not that big a minus when looking for a flat specialist. They get older, it gets harder and, maybe, they get pushed too much or have little aches and pains that can be dealt with along with a career change.
We often never know exactly why they stopped wanting to jump...and maybe they never liked it in the first place...I dunno how you are going to share that with a buyer other then just being upfront and saying he is done jumping.
Speaking from experience, if he's a great mover, yes. My first guy was an ex-jumper with some issues. He was a terrific mover with zero good basics. I had 2 BNDTs ask if he was for sale, knowing that he was, with 1 BNT, coming 11, and again when he was coming 14.
I wouldn't expect huge bucks for him, however.
Thanks for the comments. The horse isn't mine, just wondering what people's take on a horse in this situation would be as it seemed like I struggled to sell my former jumper in the dressage world even after he had proven himself to be competitive at third level and was schooling higher because everyone seemed to be suspicious that the reason for his career change was that he couldn't hold up to jumping which was not the case, he was just a more talented dressage horse so I had decided to learn dressage while I had the opportunity to ride a horse with a natural aptitude for it...
The people who own him have him very reasonably priced, and his brain was fried which is why he isn't suitable as a jumper anymore. He has also gone to one dressage show at 1st and 2nd with a jumper rider and scored respectably.
I was interested in knowing how receptive people would be to a horse in this situation.
When I was looking I wouldn't have counted him out. I do like to cross train with cross rails and maybe 2' verticals but it wouldn't be an end all for me. He'd have to be priced right for a career change at his age but if the price is there I wouldn't have looked pass him.
There is a market *IF* he is priced right. At best, right now, he is 12-yr-old 1st/2nd level horse. I am very curious as to what his scores were at the one show. "Respectable" can mean different things to different people.
2nd level scores of 55 mean he is really a 1st level horse. A 12-yr-old 1st level horse is not going to command a big price tag.
How are his flying changes? I think that will really determine his marketability. If he has calm, clean changes and just needs to build up the strength for the collection, that is MUCH different than a 12-yr-old horse with no changes or bad changes.
Also curious to know what people would say the price point is for being "priced right"
He scored in the low 60's at 2nd.
I believe he should have good changes, did not try them with him as he is out of shape right now but at the level he was competing at in the eq's he would have had to have quiet clean flying changes
In my area, under $20K if he's a big purty ammie-friendly guy. $10-15K more likely, and bless them if they get more than $20K.
If he is an ammy-friendly ride and you get him a bit more fit, you could possibly get $25K for him. But, to get that price, I think an amateur is going to need to get on and get a quiet, clean flying change.
Now, if you get him fit over the winter and show him 3rd level in the spring with some good scores, you could probably get a bit more.
On the flip side, if he is not ammy-friendly and has a few quirks, it might be more like $12-15K.
A lot also depends on WHERE you are located and WHO you know in the dressage area. Also depends on how quickly they need to sell.
Best bet would be to have a well-respected local dressage pro evaluate him and start networking like crazy.
Agree with above, but I'd say more in the 20k range if he is ammy friendly. Get someone to market him well get him back in shape and to a few more shows 20k should be a decent price at 2nd.
$10k-$20k depending on how good the gaits are and how ammy-friendly the horse is.
A quiet, clean flying change that is easy to get WHEN YOU ASK in each direction is worth a lot if the horse also shows the ability to collect. If the horse can truly collect enough to get low to mid 60's at 3rd, he would be worth more than $20K, IMHO. But, $20K is probably a good starting point if you don't want to put in the time to see if he is going to be able to collect enough and do the lateral work for 3rd.
Did he go to a schooling show or a recognized show? Buyer might want to see decent scores at 2nd at a couple recognized show before paying $20K.
In reality, it all depends. All you need is one buyer that falls in love with the horse and thinks he is perfect for them. Finding that one person is the part that is a crap shoot a lot of the time. I think flying changes help a LOT in marketability as long as they are clean and easy (not late behind and not "auto" - need to be done when asked not just because you are changing direction.)
Thanks for the input. It is interesting to here the ranges, I would have been a lot more conservative in my guess for what they could get for a horse of his description.
Agreed. I made the switch to dressage when my mare decided she hated to jump. Later, I discovered the reason she hated jumping was because of hock pain. Now, with hock injections and Adequan, she loves jumping. So much, in fact, that we're switching from dressage to combined tests.
Originally Posted by joiedevie99
Bottom line... you should do your best to find out the reason for the reluctance to jump. If a medical issue - such as hocks - it may impact marketability for dressage.
Actually I am a little more conservative too. Now, I don't do Dressage but not totally isolated from it and those who do. A Jumper that's done with it but can do something else and is sound and safe would strike me as around 10ish. Couple thousand either way depending on area and how attractive and how good a mover he may or may not be.
Originally Posted by adelmo95
Prove his worth with more recent results and that would go up. An easy change would also raise that price. If they get him out at the competitions and promote him? They could double that if he is any good at all and they get to the right buyer.
I clinic with 2 ex jumpers, both warmbloods. One is a mare who is fire cracker hot and I think the dressage work is helping her immensely; it's been around 15 months since she started working with the clinician. The second horse is 8 yrs old, over 17H and a big lug, the gal has to use a lot of leg/seat and when he doesn't want to work anymore clicks the brain off. I don't know the story on the mare, it wouldn't surprise me if she was pushed too far since she can be fractious. The gelding was definitely fried and the gal who owns him now has done well by him and purchased him cheaply.
OP I have had this exact same horse in the past, the issues were the following.
Vetting. The horse did not 'vet' when the jumper people bought him, but he did the job dandy, so they didn't really care. When it came time to resell, well, it was a problem.
Pricing. The owners wanted WAY more than was reasonable for a 17+hh burned out jumper that wouldn't vet.
Training. As in, the horse used to have a push button change and the jumper riders wrecked it. Made the horse nervous about it, etc.
Size. 17.2hh is really, kinda, too big for a lot of amateur dressage (read mild mannered, not brave, and not strong) ladies to ride.
In this market, I am afraid 'respectable' scores will not do it. If an amateur showed the horse in a dressage show and scored a 70% in training or 1st level, then you would have something attractive. Low 60's don't cut it. You can get those scores on a much younger horse with a good temperament and a lot more years left on the odometer.
Someone could always fall in love with him, yes. But any horse that is 'burned out' on something already has significant miles, wear, and tear.
If you want to sell the horse in a reasonable time frame, I would price at $7500, and be ready to take $5000. OR you can price it higher if you don't mind hanging on to it for a while...
Isabeau Z Solace makes a lot of good points that I agree with including the pricing.
I am really stunned at some of the numbers people come up with for pricing horses.... If you priced that horse around here at 20K, you would have your horse for a very long time, meaning you would be keeping him indefinitely. Maybe if you put the horse up for sale in a pro barn, you MIGHT sell him at a price like that. Maybe. But the average ammy seller? I really doubt it.
Idk I looked at a lot lot of dressage fried warmbloods, even though the owners would never admit that and they were asking 20k in my area for those. It was hard to find a reasonable priced wb anywhere in my area that was higher than 1st level that was Not a nut case. So I stick with my 20k pricing but yet different areas get different pricings at times. I know one horse that hasn't competed but a few times and mostly schooling shows not above 65% that is 1/2 wb and 1/2 Arab and they want 20k and he is 15. Not a schoolmaster type either. Pricing around here with anything that has wb in it is crazy. Lol even the American WBs they think they can make a fortune on, think draft cross type, done nothing, and want 7500 and up for it. I'd research your area more for more accurate pricing