Seller dilemma- Update last page

I'd tell buyer one. I was horse shopping. Rode horse once and within a day called back and wanted to set up a vet check at the university. Called back with vet check day and time on the next day and they didn't answer. Finally got someone that evening and they tell me that girl that was riding him was so upset that mom brought them a check for said horse. I was so upset, I really liked this horse and a year of searching thought I found my horse. I feel he was bought out from under me but now they get board and training fees on top of the sell but i still believe they should have notified me that someone was interested and it would be a no vet check cash in hand deal so I could make the decision. I just think it was dirty business and I'd never send anyone their way. Plus I felt bad for the horse he was 10 and has never been turned out, ever! They have 4 acres with a large arena, 2 big barns, and a house and the rest woods. No turnout. The horses have a 12x12 area they go in outside and a24x24 area that 2 horses can go in for an hour a day. IMO no life for a horse and he was so sweet I just wanted to get Jim out of there and bring him to a grass pasture. Oh well.

As a seller, if someone is interested in my horse and wants to do a PPE, there is a CONTRACT and a deposit are taken. No contract = no status. And my contracts always offer a fully refundable deposit if after the PPE the buyer does not want the horse for any reason. I'm not interested in making anyone buy a horse she doesn't want.

I can understand Rabicon's disappointment, but really that horse wasn't nailed down contractually. As a seller, I want to get the best situation for any horse I sell. It's a crapshoot, but a known entity usually will get the nod. I'll also add that if everyone who told me that they were buying my horse actually did buy the horse -- I would have sold many more horses in my life.

Back to the OP -- all you have is two interested parties. One has indicated she can't really buy the horse. I would not entertain her installment offer (or bother having her look) without talking terms first. I have sold horses on installments, but the horse stayed with me until paid in full and the installment period was brief. Since the OP states that she needs the money from this sale, I be careful that desperation doesn't make you negotiate a bad installment contract. I would be clear what your terms are upfront so that nobody wastes further time.

Buyer #2 has more potential. See if she can look at the horse. But be prepared that she will never show up. I had a lady call me last month who was DESPERATE to buy a mare I have for sale. She wanted to come see her asap. Since I was out of town, I set something up with my trainer. Lady no-showed and when called said a girlfriend went into labor. She rescheduled for a few days later and no-showed without notice. She then rescheduled a week later and no-showed without notice again. Of course, we were already anticipating this behavior after the first experience.

Also be prepared that she may come out and not like the horse. That happens often enough. I just had a trainer and student try one of my sale horses. The trainer loved the horse. The student did not. I had no issues with the visit; they were honestly interested in buying, but even though my horse looked like a good fit on paper, he was a bad fit for the rider in reality.

Sounds to me like Buyer #1 is taking her sweet time because she's been allowed to do so for so long. She may act 'nice' but this is her just taking advantage of you.

Let her know that you have a buyer ready, and she can either come try the horse immediately or the horse is gone.

Period. That's nice being a jerk.

I see no reason to play 'there are others' games with person #1.
If person #2 comes out and looks at the horse and does not like it you then have to explain to #1 that the deal did not go thru, which might get #1 thinking they are missing something.

Clearly this would not be the same if buyer #1 had scheduled a visit and that visit was hours after buyer #2 was coming and they were traveling. Then you would give them notice that someone else was looking and they can decide what to do from there.

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Originally Posted by trubandloki

I see no reason to play 'there are others' games with person #1.
If person #2 comes out and looks at the horse and does not like it you then have to explain to #1 that the deal did not go thru, which might get #1 thinking they are missing something.

Clearly this would not be the same if buyer #1 had scheduled a visit and that visit was hours after buyer #2 was coming and they were traveling. Then you would give them notice that someone else was looking and they can decide what to do from there.

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it's not a game when the person exists.
I think it's only fair to let #1 know that her idea of the deal might not happen.

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Originally Posted by Alagirl

it's not a game when the person exists.
I think it's only fair to let #1 know that her idea of the deal might not happen.

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But they clearly have not set up a deal yet. Per the OP they have discussed all kinds of different things and the OP has no idea where buyer #1 is thinking of going.

Of course if Buyer #1 and seller have agreed on something then tell them. But right now Buyer #1 is no different than anyone else who calls and asks a question.

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Originally Posted by rabicon

I'd tell buyer one. I was horse shopping. Rode horse once and within a day called back and wanted to set up a vet check at the university. Called back with vet check day and time on the next day and they didn't answer. Finally got someone that evening and they tell me that girl that was riding him was so upset that mom brought them a check for said horse. I was so upset, I really liked this horse and a year of searching thought I found my horse. I feel he was bought out from under me but now they get board and training fees on top of the sell but i still believe they should have notified me that someone was interested and it would be a no vet check cash in hand deal so I could make the decision. I just think it was dirty business and I'd never send anyone their way. Plus I felt bad for the horse he was 10 and has never been turned out, ever! They have 4 acres with a large arena, 2 big barns, and a house and the rest woods. No turnout. The horses have a 12x12 area they go in outside and a24x24 area that 2 horses can go in for an hour a day. IMO no life for a horse and he was so sweet I just wanted to get Jim out of there and bring him to a grass pasture. Oh well.

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I don't see where the sellers did anything wrong here. You rode the horse then went home to do what you needed to do but did not get into any contractual agreement nor did you place a deposit on the horse. The girl that had been riding him at their farm (I'm assuming a lesson rider or casual lessee) caught wind of the fact that he might sell soon and convinced Mom to write a check. The sellers probably were thinking that this was in the horse's and their best interest. The girl had been riding him, knew him better than you and would be keeping the horse with them therefore generating additional revenue for their business. And, again, it was a guaranteed sale versus a maybe sale if the PPE goes as planned. I would have sold to the girl and her mom in this situation too but I would have had the courtesy to call you and tell you upfront as soon as it happened.

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Originally Posted by mvp

To be ethical (and not blow up any potential deals), and to get the *selling* show on the road.

Tell Buyer #2 that there is "someone else interested" who technically began the discussion first, but hasn't been to see the horse yet. She's dragging it out. You haven't lied, but you haven't said that the prior offer is unsatisfying.

That puts pressure on Buyer #2 to get her butt out and on your OTTB.

Tell Buyer #1 that you have someone coming out to try the horse who has cash in hand. You understand it is hard to schedule 3 people. (If Buyer #2 has said all the right things and continued to be interested/sounds suitable for the horse, etc.), set a date for her to come see the horse.) Tell Buyer #1 about that date.

Now see what Buyer #1 wants to do. She can either:

1) Come out before that date, put some cash in your hand (or set up a PPE) and move forward.

2) She can come see the horse whenever, knowing when Buyer #2 is coming. This means that you'll happily consider her lease deal if Buyer #2 bails.

3) The horse is still for sale until Buyer #1 and you have the terms of your lease or payment plan or whatever in writing.

Your diplomacy is as important has whatever the plan is. You want to like your potential buyers and have them like you until you have completed a deal. Let Buyer #1 know that you have respected her priority and efforts to make this work. If you are firm or "realistic" but a bit apologetic that you have to press for the person who completes a sale, she'll be more likely to work with you-- either buy finding cash, taking the complexity of the lease deal seriously or, at the very least, setting up this appointment.

Oh, and the fact that Buyer #1 wants to bring her trainer (fine) and friend (really?) and can't schedule everyone is not your problem. Let her work it out according to how badly she wants to try your horse.

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This.

You are not out anything to put the pressure on. Have you actually talked to either of these people on the phone? This may be a bad example, but I sell a lot of goats over the internet. I can tell a serious buyer by the ones who get off the computer and at least talk to me on the phone.

I'd completely forget about Buyer(?) #1. Free lease?? A month's free trial? Do you have any idea what a pain in the *ss that's going to be? Especially long distance? In addition, you ain't getting your money, are you? At least not right away, if ever. And then you have to draw up a helluva contract, insist on insurance in case something happens to said horse, etc., etc. And if Buyer(?) #1 is low on funds, is she going to want to shell out for insurance, or will that be as balky a point as buying the horse outright is?

Regardless of how Buyer #2 works out, at this point I'd be very frank & tell Buyer #1 it's an outright sale or no deal. You said you really need the money. Exactly how is a lease going to reliably get that for you?

The first one with the cash wins. You are in the business of selling, and it is a business, not a chance to be nice to someone who can't afford your horse. Just look at some of the horror stories on here about failed payment plans, trials where the buyer uses the possession of the horse to negotiate a much lower price, and trials that end with the sale not happening, and the horse coming back broken and unrepairable, or mentally fried. Trials and payments are not a good idea, and there is zero guarantee you will get your money. Buyer 1 can't afford to buy, so what makes you think they can support your horse properly? If buyer number 2 comes out, and wants to put down money then do it. My guess is that Buyer 1 has no contract with you, and never will. I bet if they ever offer money it will be very little, and on payments, and you never get all of the money anyway.

Ironwood and snowflake in my case the horse is less than 3 mins from my house. I offered a deposit and they told me not to worry that no one is looking at him and he has been for sell a while so set up the ppe is fine. We had a verbal contract that i was to vet said horse. I guess I could have tried to make them take a deposit but I don't think it would have mattered. After all this I've heard some interesting things about this place so I don't think I'm the only one. IMO I was first out and had a verbal contact tried to offer deposit and had vetting set up all in 2 days. I was not a tire kicker at all and they knew I was serious. I believe even with the other buyer its only fair to say well this one is here first and we have a verbal contract for vetting. I can see how it'd mess them up if he didn't vet well then they'd be screwed with other buyer because they are at that farm and would know but that doesn't make it good business either. I was so upset that I actually started tearing a little on the phone with them. I'm usually not that way, takes a lot to make me tear up but there was just something about this horse. I have got a great one now though but i still think about that guy from time to time and when I ride by try to see if he is in the ring.

I'd be wary of the red flags Buyer 1 is throwing at you.

Example: When my Appy was for lease/sale, I had a gal who wanted to buy him. Then she wanted to buy him on payments. She was willing to pay more than I was asking in order to pay a non set amount over 12 months, and she wanted to take him off-site to the barn where she was working and could have free board. Then, wait, no, that wouldn't work, she wanted to have a free month trial. Offsite.

All of these communications happened over three days. Three days. No, No NO way am I going to sell a horse to someone who's financial state is so unstable that they have to change their proposed payment plans in the course of three days. If you don't know how much you can pay me each month, how do you know you can pay for feed, supplements, vet, farrier, etc?

But, in cases where people have inquired, but shuffled their feet, I will say very honestly and politely that I appreciate that horse shopping is complicated, but there are multiple parties interested in the horse, and that I do not intend to "hold" the horse without a contract and deposit.

Well... I guess I've been in the position of Buyer 1. I live pretty far away from just about every horse I wanted to look at. I had several horses sold "out from under me" when I had an appointment to go see them later on in the week. One happened when I unfortunately posted a horse on another forum and one of the forum members saw him, noted when I was going to look at him, went a day earlier and purchased him. :(

So, I guess I feel for Buyer 1 if her reasons are legit. I think the honest thing to do is give her an ultimatum.

FYI all these horses getting sold out from under me led me to do a crazy thing: put a non refundable deposit on a horse I hadn't seen. It worked out in the end.. he ended up being a great horse and I ended up purchasing him.

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Originally Posted by nikelodeon79

Well... I guess I've been in the position of Buyer 1. I live pretty far away from just about every horse I wanted to look at. I had several horses sold "out from under me" when I had an appointment to go see them later on in the week. One happened when I unfortunately posted a horse on another forum and one of the forum members saw him, noted when I was going to look at him, went a day earlier and purchased him. :(

So, I guess I feel for Buyer 1 if her reasons are legit. I think the honest thing to do is give her an ultimatum.

FYI all these horses getting sold out from under me led me to do a crazy thing: put a non refundable deposit on a horse I hadn't seen. It worked out in the end.. he ended up being a great horse and I ended up purchasing him.

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Why do you feel that Buyer 1's reasons are "legit"??? She's not offering to buy the horse. She's asking for a FREE LEASE with a FREE MONTH'S TRIAL. And then "possibly" buying said horse on a payment plan. Uh - not exactly the same thing as willy-nillying about going to see a horse & having it sold out from under you.

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Originally Posted by candyappy

This may be a bad example, but I sell a lot of goats over the internet.

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I'm sorry, but this just sounds SO funny. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Rabicon, I am sorry about your experience. Nonetheless, if I really wanted a horse contingent on a PPE, I would have brought along a contract and insisted on leaving a deposit. My guess is that they would have sold to you, except the lesson student made a counter offer that was better than yours. She was willing to buy the horse "as is" and that will always trump a PPE. Plus as others have mentioned, the income associated with boarding, training and lessons made this sale to the student far more attractive to them. I am not saying it was particularly ethical of them, but it hardly scratches the surface of bad dealings in horse sales. I am sure being on the receiving end of this transaction was unpleasant.

I do feel sympathy for the OP, who seems fairly desperate to sell her horse, to the point where I fear she will make some very bad decisions with a shady buyer. It's not a good situation to be in. I hope she finds a buyer soon.

I disagree with those who suggest telling the potential buyers about each other. This is a tactic that can backfire. It can make potential buyers feel pressured and uncomfortable. Or, if one buyer comes to see the horse but then rejects it, and the next buyer knows that a previous shopper rejected it, then they might react by being less interested in the horse as well.

So, I think it is a wise choice to mention (in general) to any buyer that the first person who gives a deposit gets the horse. If a buyer is anxious, I will try to work with them to get them scheduled efficiently, or if someone is buying a plane ticket I will avoid showing the horse for a short period of time until they have seen it as a reasonable courtesy. I also try to schedule preferred buyers (people I know or people who come recommended) ahead of buyers that I don't know.

But, I really try to avoid discussing other potential buyers with a potential buyer.

In the OPs situation, she has no obligation to buyer #1. Zero. This person hasn't even seen the horse, and isn't even interested in buying, but a lease, which is less attractive to our OP. Our OP should not involve the buyers in a bunch of drama by telling them about each other. She should show the horse to buyer #2 and feel good about it and hope that it results in a sale.

I would just make sure that buyer #1 knows that the horse is still being advertised for sale, but I would not tell them that someone else is actively interested for the same reason trubandloki says; if person #2 doesn't take him, it may be a turn off for person #1.

Maybe email something like: "I am sorry we have not been able to get together for you to try horsey, and wanted to be clear that I am still advertising him for sale. I didn't want there to be hard feelings if someone comes out and tries him and falls in love!"

If I got that email from CHT, I'd find it emotionally manipulative. Either the horse is available for me or not. And frankly, I can't imagine that the OP would even consider the first individual - you can't call her a buyer. She isn't offering to buy the horse. She's emailing about wanting to have the horse on a free lease. From what I have read, the OP isn't advertising the horse for a free lease, but for sale.

Then along comes an interested buyer and she demures? Because someone else wants him for free?? I don't care that the first person talks about a future payment plan. She isn't making any kind of moves to commit to that.

The OP doesn't have to tell the first person anything about other buyers, its obvious that the horse is for sale. If a buyer comes out and wants to say do a PPE, tell the first person that a sale is in progress and any discussion about the lease will have to be put on hold until the second person decides if they want to purchase the horse. You can always be friendly and say brightly "I can let you know if he becomes available for a lease to own situation again."

Honestly, how does one purchase a horse on time and call it a free lease? It sure sounds to me like this person isn't intending to put out any cash for the animal. What is the OP's reasoning for considering her at all?

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Originally Posted by CHT

I actually like the sound of this...maybe not the exact wording, but I want to at least give her some type of heads up that someone else might buy him. Not that I am obligated to give horsey to her- you guys have pretty much talked me out of that deal entirely- but I just think it would be wrong if she calls me one day to schedule a visit and the horse has already been sold. Neccessary or not, I would feel better about it if I warned her.

Maybe email something like: "I am sorry we have not been able to get together for you to try horsey, and wanted to be clear that I am still advertising him for sale. I didn't want there to be hard feelings if someone comes out and tries him and falls in love!"

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Originally Posted by Ambitious Kate

If I got that email from CHT, I'd find it emotionally manipulative. Either the horse is available for me or not.

The horse IS still available, but not on hold. If she wants to come up immediately with cash in hand, sure, he's available. But he's not going to be held from buyer #2 just because #1 wants to maybe come see him one day.

.......And frankly, I can't imagine that the OP would even consider the first individual - you can't call her a buyer. .........

......What is the OP's reasoning for considering her at all?

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Trust me, it's not my ideal situation. But, I have to get this horse sold. I have spoke to this woman on the phone, and she sounds like she would be able to take good care of him...she's a 50-something retiree that runs a breeding farm, but has nothing to actually ride. Was counting on a sale of a yearling to pay for my horse, but that sale fell through. So I think that money-wise, she would be able to care for him, just didn't have a few extra thousand lying around. Hence, why she asked about a plan or lease.

Obviously I would rather him go to #2 (or any other outright buyer) but it's getting to the point where I can either feed my horse, or feed DH and myself. So a less-than-ideal situation, where he's being taken care of, would be better than him sitting around and me not being able to afford to give him what he needs.

JanM, I am desperate, but I'm not going to sacrifice him going to a good home just to get him gone. I don't know how, but I will make it work until I find the right person. If I just wanted him gone, there are plenty of people here locally who I could've taken an offer on. I just had bad feelings about those homes.

So no, I am not going to consider #1 anymore (unless she shows a dramatic change and gets on the ball), but I am still going to give her the courtesy of letting her know he might sell.