Assaulting our rights to own and use horses:

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Originally Posted by Guilherme

Remember that we live in a nation where you can get a high school diploma as long as you can read and cypher on an 8th grade level.

My wife is an MD and her university level Family Practice clinic has twice over the past few years had to "dumb down" the routine instructions given patients. She noted that a recent survey put average reading comprehension of their patient base at just over the 7th grade level.

Our educational system has failed, dramatically, over the past couple of decades. We seem to have come to a point where kids get educated in spite of the system, not because of it. This failure shows up again and again and again.

G.

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Well, I just got called out for my lack of reading comprehension on that Fugly site; because I failed to appreciate the "well written" article.
Lord knows brevity is not my virtue; and typing on an iPad means that all kinds of random things appear on my behalf; and I am convinced that my newly developed problem mistyping homophones is a sign of Alzheimers; but my reading comprehension is still working well -- thank goodness.

You are reminding me of my first "corporate world" job where I had to teach my staff about fractions - same skill I taught my 6th grade students the 4 prior years. Bless their hearts, they all calculated 15 minutes as .15 on their timesheets. They were hard workers making a low wage and cheating themselves out of a little bit that added up.

I assure you that whatever concerns you have about your local education quality will pale once you experience Mississippi's finest. Moving down here from Northern Virginia and the top schools in the nation has made it that much more painful to see that these parents have no idea that their children are being robbed.

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Originally Posted by Bluey

Read and weep:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-us-democracy

It is not only animal rights extremists that are gaining important footholds with their illogical premises about the nature of all animals, including the human one and our place in this world.
Seems that, with the bounty of more humans and so more that can and have advanced knowledge, we also have more that can't comprehend the world around them and will follow any one Pied Piper that does the thinking for them and pulls the right emotional strings.

Doesn't look good for us, that understand the symbiotic relationship all have in this world, that include our already well regulated thru laws proper use of other animals, including our horses.:(

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I could write a book...However as far as "people don't know where their food comes from", that is mostly a demographic shift. People don't/can't make that association, even in rural areas because farming itself has changed. Where I grew up in the heart of Dairyland MOST of the kids were farm kids. There were several family farms on a square mile. Today? not a one on that square farms any kind of cattle. They can't compete with the few 1000 cow farms in the county. So I can certainly see how they don't know even in rural areas. THEY DON"T SEE IT ANYMORE. It comes from a factory just like a car.

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Originally Posted by Guilherme

Remember that we live in a nation where you can get a high school diploma as long as you can read and cypher on an 8th grade level.

My wife is an MD and her university level Family Practice clinic has twice over the past few years had to "dumb down" the routine instructions given patients. She noted that a recent survey put average reading comprehension of their patient base at just over the 7th grade level.

How sad is that? And let's not forget "college" education nowadays. Seems most are only equal to a high school level. Yet, people have "degrees" that get them jobs. But they are not truly educated.

Our educational system has failed, dramatically, over the past couple of decades. We seem to have come to a point where kids get educated in spite of the system, not because of it. This failure shows up again and again and again.

G.

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How sad is that? and "college" seems to fall in the same boat. Kids get "degrees" and still remain woefully uneducated.

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Originally Posted by trubandloki

How do these people address things like predators and prey in animals. How is it OK for that fox to eat a mouse but it is not OK for us to eat an animal?

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I'll take a stab at this one. A fox doesn't have a choice and is not capable of reasoning about right and wrong.

It's ok for you or anyone to eat an animal. Now, abusing animals is not ok, and that is why it is regulated by law. Not that these laws aren't regularly flouted

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Originally Posted by trubandloki

How do these people address things like predators and prey in animals. How is it OK for that fox to eat a mouse but it is not OK for us to eat an animal?

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I wish I could find the post, but one actually said that if the lion could be made to understand how painful it was to the antelope to be eaten, the lion would be vegan. :eek:

I wish I was kidding... :no:

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Originally Posted by allintexas

I'll take a stab at this one. A fox doesn't have a choice and is not capable of reasoning about right and wrong.

It's ok for you or anyone to eat an animal. Now, abusing animals is not ok, and that is why it is regulated by law. Not that these laws aren't regularly flouted

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Originally Posted by TheBarnRules

I wish I could find the post, but one actually said that if the lion could be made to understand how painful it was to the antelope to be eaten, the lion would be vegan. :eek:

I wish I was kidding... :no:

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Do you really, really think that, if the fox could "reason right and wrong" would do any different than eat the chickens?:eek:

I think you have read too much animal rights propaganda, sadly misinterpreting the real nature of animals.

Animals are wonderful creatures as they are, they don't need to be made any other.
It is a shame to not give who they are the right to be who they are, if you can even understand that.:no:

Maybe see if you can understand the point of the next post copied above, right below yours.:yes:

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Originally Posted by Dispatcher

How sad is that? and "college" seems to fall in the same boat. Kids get "degrees" and still remain woefully uneducated.

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Maybe it's because kids never get to "live" outside the over-indulgent parents watchful eye and learn something on their own. The horror of pumpkin actually getting hurt in ANY WAY by ANYTHING is way too great. We have failed our "Greatest Generation".

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Originally Posted by Bluey

Do you really, really think that, if the fox could "reason right and wrong" would do any different than eat the chickens?:eek:

I think you have read too much animal rights propaganda, sadly misinterpreting the real nature of animals.

Animals are wonderful creatures as they are, they don't need to be made any other.
It is a shame to not give who they are the right to be who they are, if you can even understand that.:no:

Maybe see if you can understand the point of the next post copied above, right below yours.:yes:

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Please don't assume that I'm an idiot. Not suggesting that a fox can reason. Just that people can. Thus we have ethics. Surely you are not suggesting that humane laws should be stricken from the books, because animals aren't humane to each other?

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Originally Posted by Bluey

Do you really, really think that, if the fox could "reason right and wrong" would do any different than eat the chickens?:eek:

I think you have read too much animal rights propaganda, sadly misinterpreting the real nature of animals.

Animals are wonderful creatures as they are, they don't need to be made any other.
It is a shame to not give who they are the right to be who they are, if you can even understand that.:no:

Maybe see if you can understand the point of the next post copied above, right below yours.:yes:

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I hate to take things out of context but this sounds a lot like the statements animal rights groups make. LOL

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Originally Posted by allintexas

Please don't assume that I'm an idiot.

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I am sure we don't.

Our lives have changed so much - too much tv and too many computer/wii/x-box whatever games.

As parents we are bombarded in the news about kidnappings and sexual predators in our neighborhoods.

No more are the days of taking off on horseback or even a bike- they'd only start to worry if we weren't back by dinner.
There aren't a lot of places to safely ride anymore.

People actively honk at a horse on the road - if it spooks so much the better - it's funny don't ya know? Heaven forbid you should slow them down.

If someone breaks down on one of the bridges around here, they're honking at you and giving you the finger. Yea right, I seriously planned for my vehicle to break down just to screw with YOUR day.

One time someone was threatening to jump off the Aurora bridge. She was causing a traffic jam - people were yelling at her to just jump.

I don't mind if my "pumpkin" gets hurt in the normal course of things but I'd rather she not get folded/spindled or mutilated by some nutjob or someone that's just in a freaking a$$ hurry.
If she got thrown off a horse now and again - at least she'd be doing something fun!!

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Originally Posted by sunridge1

Maybe it's because kids never get to "live" outside the over-indulgent parents watchful eye and learn something on their own. The horror of pumpkin actually getting hurt in ANY WAY by ANYTHING is way too great. We have failed our "Greatest Generation".

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Originally Posted by Bluey

Do you really, really think that, if the fox could "reason right and wrong" would do any different than eat the chickens?:eek:

I think you have read too much animal rights propaganda, sadly misinterpreting the real nature of animals.

Animals are wonderful creatures as they are, they don't need to be made any other.
It is a shame to not give who they are the right to be who they are, if you can even understand that.:no:

Maybe see if you can understand the point of the next post copied above, right below yours.:yes:

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I'm confused - I was telling you what a RARA said to me about animals being vegan if only the predator could be made to understand how painful being eaten is to the prey. I certainly don't believe that - an animal is what it is - predator or prey and we would be wise not to think we can change that, vegan dog and cat food aside.

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Originally Posted by allintexas

Surely you are not suggesting that humane laws should be stricken from the books, because animals aren't humane to each other?

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To Bluey et al it doesn't matter as long as they are not enforced to the point of interfering with THEIR personal view of what THEY consider humane. :(

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Originally Posted by TheBarnRules

I wish I could find the post, but one actually said that if the lion could be made to understand how painful it was to the antelope to be eaten, the lion would be vegan. :eek:

I wish I was kidding... :no:

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I suspect this was the thought process of that guy who hung out with the sweet grizzly bears -- until they ate him. Or the sweet chimpanzee - that tore the woman's face off.

There's something I read, and maybe somebody here knows what I am talking about -- otherwise, I'll have to find it. But, apparently, during the whole wolf reintroduction debates; the pro-wolf contingent heavily relied on Farley Mowat's book "Never Cry Wolf" - which is apparently complete fiction - from Farley Mowat WikiPedia entry:

"In a 1964 article published in the Canadian Field-Naturalist,[2] Canadian Wildlife Federation official Frank Banfield compared Mowat's 1963 bestseller to Little Red Riding Hood, stating, "I hope that readers of "Never Cry Wolf" will realize that both stories have about the same factual content."[2] L. David Mech, a wolf expert, stated that Mowat is no scientist and that in all his studies, he had never encountered a wolf pack which primarily subsisted on small prey as shown in Mowat's book.[7]
Duncan Pryde, a Hudsons Bay Company trader who pioneered the linguistic study of Inuit languages, attacked Mowat's claim to have picked up the language quickly enough in two months to discuss detailed concepts such as shamanism, pointing out that the language is complex and required a year or more for Europeans to master the basics. Pryde said that when Mowat visited his post at Baker Lake in 1958 he only spoke a single word in the Inuit language.[8]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farley_Mowat

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Originally Posted by allintexas

Please don't assume that I'm an idiot. Not suggesting that a fox can reason. Just that people can. Thus we have ethics. Surely you are not suggesting that humane laws should be stricken from the books, because animals aren't humane to each other?

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Well, how you come to the conclusion that anyone here against those animal rights extremists "wants humane laws stricken from the books" does give me pause about how your thinking process functions.:lol:

Remember, those animal rights extremist groups are not at all for humane laws in themselves.
Those laws have been always there and getting better the more we learn, although the past two decades animal rights extremist groups have used any such for their propaganda, as if they did it, which they didn't.
The abuse card, to brand all in what some abuse somewhere an animal is part of that propaganda and so many fall for that one.
Animal rights extremist groups tried about a year ago to shut down the whole dairy industry in a Midwest state thru showing someone abusing dairy calves as they were lobbying for a bill against dairies.

Animal rights extremist groups are riding the coattails of those living and working with the animals that have brought advances in care forth to get followers.
Humane laws is only a handy stepping stone for animal rights extremist groups, that brings them followers that don't know their agenda, that clearly is to ban all use, humane or not.:(

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Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE

Our lives have changed so much - too much tv and too many computer/wii/x-box whatever games.

As parents we are bombarded in the news about kidnappings and sexual predators in our neighborhoods.

No more are the days of taking off on horseback or even a bike- they'd only start to worry if we weren't back by dinner.
There aren't a lot of places to safely ride anymore.

People actively honk at a horse on the road - if it spooks so much the better - it's funny don't ya know? Heaven forbid you should slow them down.

If someone breaks down on one of the bridges around here, they're honking at you and giving you the finger. Yea right, I seriously planned for my vehicle to break down just to screw with YOUR day.

One time someone was threatening to jump off the Aurora bridge. She was causing a traffic jam - people were yelling at her to just jump.

I don't mind if my "pumpkin" gets hurt in the normal course of things but I'd rather she not get folded/spindled or mutilated by some nutjob or someone that's just in a freaking a$$ hurry.
If she got thrown off a horse now and again - at least she'd be doing something fun!!

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Sorry I was harsh, I really didn't mean to be, I DO understand that those fears are not unfounded. From what I see it goes way deeper than that however, our societal ills are NOT because of over-protective parents but a result of a dispassionate, dishonest, and an opportunistic culture.

I am so glad I didn't have children, I couldn't have lent them anything to thrive in this culture. My own naivete would have only harmed them in this dog eat dog country.

No worries - I didn't take it that way.

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Originally Posted by sunridge1

Sorry I was harsh, I really didn't mean to be, I DO understand that those fears are not unfounded. From what I see it goes way deeper than that however, our societal ills are NOT because of over-protective parents but a result of a dispassionate, dishonest, and an opportunistic culture. ^^^^^^YES


I am so glad I didn't have children, I couldn't have lent them anything to thrive in this culture. My own naivete would have only harmed them in this dog eat dog country.

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Nailed it in one!!

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Originally Posted by luvmytbs

To Bluey et al it doesn't matter as long as they are not enforced to the point of interfering with THEIR personal view of what THEY consider humane. :(

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And apparently because animals kill their prey to eat, it's ok for people to engage in sports where you can use animals to kill the prey, purely for our own entertainment. Extra points if you can do it from horseback.
Based on their reasoning on another thread, I think they would probably be ok with dogfighting, and cockfighting, because after all, animals naturally kill other animals.

:no:
The point with those who disagree with some of you is that welfare is fantastic. Rights are not.

Agreeing and supporting welfare does *not* mean the person is close minded, enjoys seeing animals fighting and most certainly does not mean they only want their personal views of humane only.

As a matter of fact it means the direct opposite of that. That they agree with welfare laws and want them upheld...they do NOT want a few inexperienced people forcing their opinions into laws. Which is what animals rights are.

Jetsmom...do you really honestly think that the folks you dislike on here would seriously be for dog and cock fighting for any reason? Honestly? :no:

The point many have been attempting to make on these ridiculous threads is:

LEARN exactly what is going on...LEARN it. Do not parrot what the internet says. Get off your duffs, get out there and use reason without bias. The internet...she lies. A lot. Kinda like the silliness of folks posting "HSUS is not animal rights! They don't have that on their website!"

Because the rhetoric being posted here about fox hunting couldn't be more dramatic & ridiculous if it was a soap opera script.