Some people all the need to do is look in the mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmytbs
Some by...
Spreading their message.
Their propaganda.
Some people all the need to do is look in the mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmytbs
Some by...
Spreading their message.
Their propaganda.
This whole thread as so many others are about spreading animal rights propaganda.
From the first post and all along, right out of animal rights websites and their propaganda, that is all we keep hearing, time and again.
Some of that propaganda is getting a bit of age, slaughter plants in the USA have been closed several years now.
"This is the season", where non-profits get most of their donations, for some more than 3/4ths of their income.
I expect this thread won't be the only one, more will show up.:no:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alagirl
And all that coming from someone who
doesn't own a horse,
has never been to a low end auction, let alone spent 8 years at every single one of them,
has not walked through the kill pen to alert management of injuries and fights (mostly to no avail).
has not watched 50 horses being loaded (very forcefully most times) onto a DD with Ontario license plates at 2:00 am, after they sat in the uncovered kill pen for 8 hours with no water in 95 degree heat. (5 years of that, when Cavel was still open and much, much closer)
has not been to local feedlots to search for stolen horses.
As far as I am concerned, you have no credentials to speak on the matter of what happens in the slaughter pipeline.
My opinions are not based on propaganda of RARA's, they are based on real life, in person experiences over many years.
I do not wish the images I have in my head on anyone.
In general, extremism always seems to show some degree of craziness. Whether it is RARAs or the Slippery Slope Animal Rights Paranoids. What I find incredibly silly is that the two extreme sides both take have the same mentality that you are either with them or against them. If you do not agree 100% with the RARA's, then you are a mean animal abuser. If you do not agree 100% with the Slippery Slope Animal Rights Paranoids, then you are a simpleton who does not understand that ANY animal welfare is going to lead us to losing all our animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alagirl
How do both these extreme and very opposite groups not understand that in that huge chasm between their two groups, there are many of us (far more than in both extremes combined) in the middle that have our own opinions/interpretations and are not buying into the propaganda that EITHER group is trying to push.
I also have to wonder why Ag Gag laws need to be implemented if there is minimal to no abuse going on/if the abuse is being stopped internally/if the abuse is being monitored by the USDA. If the industry is so clean, why are they afraid of people seeing what goes on?
Don't be obtuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADM7040
Those who warn about the ARAs don't go around torching trucks or farms.
And again, this is not about animal welfare. it's all and exclusively about animal rights.
But it's par for the course: if you not for the ban you must be by default a hater and not care about the welfare of animals.
And that is - drum roll please - ARA rhetoric. Nobody wants to be a big mean poopy head or being accused of hating horses, right.
Well, one group is trying to curb your rights as animal owner, the other does not. They are in no way shape or form comparable.Quote:
How do both these extreme and very opposite groups not understand that in that huge chasm between their two groups, there are many of us (far more than in both extremes combined) in the middle that have our own opinions/interpretations and are not buying into the propaganda that EITHER group is trying to push.
Well, why do we have to have laws regarding speeding or any other kind of regulation?Quote:
I also have to wonder why Ag Gag laws need to be implemented if there is minimal to no abuse going on/if the abuse is being stopped internally/if the abuse is being monitored by the USDA. If the industry is so clean, why are they afraid of people seeing what goes on?
because we deal with people.
Most people break the rules when given the chance. That's why we have to have policemen. And inspectors.
And laws and regulation to guide them.
Same why you need stewards and TDs at a horse show.
There is no one on here who is displaying any misunderstanding that slaughter is killing. Why are you even arguing about the labeling of killing vs processing vs slaughter?Quote:
Originally Posted by 7HL
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADM7040
oh come on, did you miss it?
'cock fighting is illegal but people still keep poultry'
Just scroll up a little...it's all there!
Bluey I don't understand why it is an either or situation to you. Do you truly see the world as so black or white or just specifically this issue? Why do you seem unwilling to believe people (multiple posters from this thread and many others) who state that they are in the middle. They want better regulations for animal WELFARE because the current system has plenty of room for improvement but they are not into the idea of Animal Rights. To you is there no difference between Animal Welfare and Animal Rights? Is there truly no middle ground to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluey
No, luvmyTBs in no way has posted anything to imply that she aligns herself/himself with that group of crazies. That's just ridiculous of you to state that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alagirl
It appears you have never been to an equine slaughter facility. First. In Canada they are UNIONIZED. Therefore the poster who stated so mamny hours of non stop unedited and proven the film was not tampered with...either in Canada or U.S.A. would be false for yet another reason. The firlm presented as evidence showed the SAME WORKERS working for a claimed 10-11 hours. IMPOSSIBLE....also the clean done...has to be done even in low end facilities...means high pressure steam and suds. During that time, ALL CAMERAS HAVE TO BE COVERED...kill floors are always monitored by management due to insurance claims if a kill floor employee injurs themselves. NO CAMERA...whether hidden or not...can survive the heat and chemical spray.Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsmom
Different kills are for different reasons...i.e. fertilizer, edible food and hide processing. LV mytbs...BULL POOP....they may have loaded however the BORDER VETS ONLY WORK CERTAIN HOURS..huge problems with overloading entering Canada and also.,..why would they sit at a Carvel kill pen in the U.S. when it was still legal ...to kill them there...your "story" isn't passing the .......... test
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADM7040
The she is a poo stirrer.
Same difference.
Doesn't matter, the manure stinks the same from this side as from the other.
it;s always the same <butbutbutbut> no, it is.
o yourself a favor and analyze the article not for content but for style and rhetoric.
It is a superbly written piece of propaganda.
I wish the average news article was as well written.
But you still can't pick up a turd by it's clean end. And by the end of the day it is still propaganda
And propaganda has only one goal: brainwash people.
Most breeders of livestock are in it for money. Many horse owners who sell to others try to make a profit if possible. I never heard that slaughter was ever best for the horse, it was ( is) just a necessary option because horses are after all livestock. Slaughter plants are a business and people do eat horses and pay good money to do so. What is your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsmom
Alagirl, you've just quoted me on several posts and then argued about things that had nothing to do with what I posted. I can't even come up with anything further to say to you because you seem to have entered a zone where you are so rabidly against RARA's that you are convinced anyone who is not 100% with your thoughts must be an enemy and therefore attacked. Try taking a breather and re-read things when you have calmed down a bit I actually see some truth to some of your posts, but when you start spouting off that everyone who doesn't agree with you is in bed with the RARA's you come across as unhinged and irrational on the topic.
Just like I asked Bluey I should ask you as well...why don't you believe that there are people who are holding the middle ground? Why can't you believe that people exist who can decide that abuse needs to stop but animals are still here for our humane use.
BTW, none of my horses are ever going to an auction or slaughter, they retire here and are euthanized when their time comes. I do not want to become responsible for other people's horses and I don't believe in warehousing horses in holding pens, mustang or otherwise. I have also never visited an Animal Rights website to read the propaganda of HSUS or PETA. I have nothing against the theory of slaughtering horses for human consumption or other use but I do have an issue with the current reality.
On any forum there are those who are able to spread the lies and generally they are just accepted...however I reside outside of Coutts, Alberta...5 minutes from the Sweetgrass Montana/Canadian border crossing.
I board dogs for the Canadian vets who MUST APPROVE the horses entry...they MUST BE INSPECTED. I also board dogs for many broker employees...they tell me the loads coming through.
FIRST: There are loads of "slaughter imports" however they are INDIVIDUALLY vetted in the U.S. and they have a health certificate. This is so they can possibly be sold other than slaughter...
SECOND: Feeder Horses come in by the truck load. They are ONLY approved for slaughter and therefore MUST BE INSPECTED...which means usually unloaded or checked for injuries and or numbers. They MUST BE SLAUGHTERED within 96 hours of crossing the border. The VETS are required by law TO REJECT over number shipments or injuries that would cause great pain i.e. missing eyes, broken limbs...
There ARE truck loads that are over..usually by 1-4 horses hoping a vet will not unload or do an eyeball count and just write off the difference to their counting error. There ARE animals that have been loaded with injuries...here is my complaint with our system...they reject the whole truck load...which means the trucker usually goes down a back road in Montana and just dumps them.....would it not be better to have them go the two hours to MacLeod and be euthanized (which does occur) or immediately killed if the floor is in process?...this also happens...
Slaughter IS AN OPTION and it should remain as such...if you hate it...DON'T DO IT....
Thank you!!!
QUOTE=PeteyPie;6525706]It doesn't matter whether or not you are a PETA supporter. Some in the pro-slaughter group will spin your arguments and divert from the issue at hand with alarmist exaggerations. The issue is your opinion of horse slaughter, and it's a shame you have to apologize in order to avoid being insulted or misrepresented. It's just a technique to discredit: You don't think women should be beaten? What are you a feminazi? You pay your taxes. You are a leftist? You recycle. What are you some wacko environmentalist?
I agree with you that cruelty is bad, and that horse slaughter in the United States is cruel -- whether the killing takes place at a plant in this country or outside of it. It is hard to imagine how anyone can argue otherwise, but we all know that money will influence all kinds of bad behavior and justify all sorts of misdeeds in the quest for it.
Kind people have promoted the idea that if it were done humanely, that is, if the horses were transported humanely, if illegal transport of ill, pregnant, or lame horses were prevented through enforcement of existing laws, if proper humane feed lot practices were done, and if practices on the kill floor were designed specifically for the horse, then slaughter would be tolerable. But only the kind people seem interested in these changes.
The people in each phase of the industry, the people making the money, have no incentive to change, have shown no indications of change, and will not change unless forced to.
Would you transport your old horse to a Mexican slaughterhouse? No? Why would anyone? Why would the guy who drives the truck? Why would the guy who brokers the lots of horses? Why would the breeder who breeds 100 Quarter Horses and sends 90 to Mexico? Do you think they lose sleep at night over whether the plant is in that country or ours?[/QUOTE]
So are you also saying that those that are against abortion are also killing abortion doctors/bombing their clinics? The majority of pro life people are normal, peaceloving people who abhor violence. As are the majority of people who are against commercial horse slaughter. There isn't any COTHER that I am aware of, that condones violence against anyone in the slaughter industry. (and I'm not talking about people who blurt out that "they should suffer the same fate, etc, like you see on every thread that shows an abused animal...that's just venting, and even the pro slaughter side does that.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alagirl
If SH were slaughtering humanely for the most part, why have no horse SH filmed for 2 days straight, had the tapes forensically examined to verify they weren't edited, and posted them for everyone to see. It would certainly fight the tapes where that was done, and it was very inhumane. They'd even have the benefit of letting employees know they were being taped. And don't try to say, well they do tape in some cattle SH. Those tapes are only available to people hired by the SH.
And you have the Ag Gag laws designed to further hide what really goes on. If they were following Humane Handling laws, they wouldn't care who secretly tapes inside.
You're my new hero!! LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampYankee
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpingPaints
No you just want them stuffed into over crowded rescues, abandoned along freeways, tied to wal- mart hitching rails or just left to starve because the owners can't feed them and rescues can't take them. That is so much more pleasant, i agree.
I think we all "get" what you are saying - but by your definition we need to just turn a blind eye to ALL the abuse that goes on - be it slaughter - be it the soring - whatever the abuse may be and let it go so that we defeat what HSUS and PETA want.
"Someone" is also always trying to tell us what to do with our children. By your definition should we then abuse our children so we don't "lose our rights to do what we want with them?"
God forbid we should lose any of our rights to be human.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alagirl
You are flat out wrong. The tapes were forensically examined and found to be unedited. No one stated anything about whether it was the same employees the whole shift. You lost all credibility with me when you supported someone who starved their horses and neglected them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairfax