Daisycutter87 - the lack of hands-on experience is very evident in the breeding side of the business. It would seem that these younger vets rely very heavily on ultra-sound machines. They just can't seem to palpate and "feel" what's going on inside the mare. While u/s machines do provide more information in some respects - I'd put my Vet's palpations and decades of experience up against any young Vet with an u/s machine. These young Vets also seem to feel mare owners have endless amounts of money to pay to keep doing u/s's. The statistics for Veterinary School show that the majority of students are female and the majority of students want to head into small animal practices. There are statistics to support that we are heading for a "crisis" with respect to a shortage of large animal Veterinarians. This just doesn't impact the horse industry but more significantly impacts the "food" side of agricultural - beef/swine/sheep/chickens, etc.
I blame the BB being down on Scammer Sunday. Server overloaded with new members trying to join type stuff.
I had a family member who did expert witness type stuff and I've had to make statements myself at work, both for disciplinary actions and accident reports. Generally you go with what you see right then or what you are asked about ocurred at such and such time. Adjudicators don't like editorial comments about previous incidents popping up, you have to word it very carefully if you try such a thing. Remember in a regular jury trial the defendant's past misdeeds are not admissable, you don't get to convict based on a pattern of bad behavior.
I'm sure regardless of the vet's length of experience or actual animal experience she drew an accurate picture of what she was allowed to see, ie she was hired by JB and things were cherrypicked for her. I'll be interested to see whether JB was clever enough to hire her for the assessment and testimony in any action and therefore delay payment until after any action, and whether this vet gets stung too.
One thing to remember about the vet checks, from experience in seizures with the SPCA in PA, the vet can not (and should not) come off as overly "emotional" in her assessment. Courts want facts, not emotions. The vet can not assume a thing and too much emotion may draw this out if the lawyers think she was swayed in any way. Just the facts presented in a non biased, objective way.
The human society is on this. Unfortunately, some things have to play out, and hopefully not at further expense of the animals.
I don't think villifying the vet (or farrier et al) is reasonable.
Even scarier is that a registered nurse would be so lax about sanitary conditions in the semen lab and so dismissive about EVA and other viral diseases that can be transmitted in semen.
Dead chickens in bathtubs don't bother me as much. If I had killed a chicken for supper and needed a place for it to bleed out, a bathtub seems quite feasible. :)
Auction Items Closing This Evening, Mon Jan 21 2013:
(Note that auction closes at time indicated or approximately 5 minutes after last bid)
21:10:00 EST 1 Pair of White Size 7.5 Roeckl Chester Riding Gloves
21:25:00 EST Pre-Breeding Season Cooled Semen Evaluation
21:40:00 EST 1 Trail of Painted Ponies - Starlight Figurine
21:55:00 EST 1 breeding to the Oldenburg stallion, Skeptic
22:10:00 EST 1 Breeding to the Holsteiner Stallion, Logan T
Items We Have Added Today
Custom Horse Portrait 8" x 10"
Tally to Date/Time of Posting
Payments Received to Date
(Google Checkout, PayPal or other payment commissions not deducted)
January 10-16, 2013 $15,379.00 $8,559 January 17, 2013 $1,650.00 $1,650 January 18, 2013 $1,750 $1,150 January 19, 2013 $1,064.50 $480 January 20, 2013 $1,250 $490 TOTALS: $21,093.50 $12,329
Well the article that WAS THERE, isn't any longer. Interesting.
Sorry for the site outages--the server hosting the www.chronofhorse.com site was experiencing some intermittent communication problems which should be resolved now.
The article roll to the right of the forums is the "Most Popular" of the current articles on the main site. The most 'clicked-on' articles appear there; as such, they're usually the most recently posted. If you want to find a particular article, go to the Chronicle's main page, www.chronofhorse.com. Most news articles such as the Burnell case are posted in the "News" section. http://www.chronofhorse.com/article_landing/news
New Statement Released On Burnell Case
Too bad! I'd like to have read that article, as I'm sure many others would.
I hold no ill will to the vet, but I do have to say Daisycutter is probably quite right. This vet does have experience, though, and she was straightforward in her assessment. It's pretty obvious things were set up for her; I'm betting she was aware of that, too. But she can't state that.
On the same type of note, I'm a nursing student. It's extremely frustrating to watch educated idiots get the accolades. I'm no slouch as a student (graduated with one degree in July Magna Cum Laude), but the three (3!!!) B grades I received (two in French, one in A&P II) out of all the other courses I have taken (everything from all the English Comp and History classes...my degree is in History...to biology sciences and math through College Algebra. Many of those classes were shortened or were ones I had to miss 2-3 weeks for military orders and travel) are A's. That left me with a GPA of 3.85, which was not good enough for the two nursing schools closest to me. They only accepted those with 4.0 GPAs...and people wonder why so many nurses aren't clinically competent? I would not say it's the majority, but maybe half.
Jill, however, is obviously a "special" case. And I shudder to imagine what her patients may have been exposed to because of her.
Let me see if I can keep count.
The attorney hired to represent JB is obviously violating every ethical code known to humanity, never mind that pesky right to representation thing.
The farrier who came out to trim the feet is an enabler of the first order by not having receipts handy.
The vet who issued the health certificate for RS (before he was injured) should be raked over the coals because I guess that horse should have stayed in his muddy, shelterless pipe corral.
The vet retained by counsel to conduct an exam - who used almost to the word - the UK Henneke scale guidance is clearly on a campaign to help JB keep her horses. Or she's incompetent. I haven't sorted that one out yet. But whatever she's done is outrageous <stamps feet>
Anyone who purchased a horse from JB is obviously just helping in the cover up. I'm only shocked that those who purchased semen and have 2012 or upcoming 2013 foals haven't been drug into this yet, but you gave her money. You are probably the worst of them all. Be ashamed.
Am I missing anyone? Oh yes, Some random trainer. Other than to note he really has nothing to do with JB, he can still be drug into this thread. Awesome. Wait! How about DeNemethy? I mean he's dead, but seriously folks, are we really that picky about facts anymore?
Can somebody please track down the vendors who sold her hay and grain and even the water so we can get this witch hunt fully up to speed? I mean talk about enabling. Let's get right to the source!
Seriously, JB is most likely not the mentally well-est person in the room, but when I read the stunning display of rationality and intellect (or lack thereof) in some of these posts, she is surely not alone. I mean either that, or there is a bunch of posters who give a box of rocks a run for its money in the IQ department.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6792982]Even scarier is that a registered nurse would be so lax about sanitary conditions in the semen lab and so dismissive about EVA and other viral diseases that can be transmitted in semen
Someone from Vermont responded to one of the online news articles that she had gone to GFF for one day to look into working there. She observed that Jill used the same dirty needle with no alcohol swab to dope up about 4 mares before she attempted to move them somewhere even though they were acting fine. She also observed that a foal about to be shipped to a new owner was in a paddock with other foals with active herpes warts.
I'm super impressed that posters are no longer vilifying the individual vet who examined Burnell's horse, and have moved on to vilifying the entire veterinary profession as a bunch of inexperienced, no horse experience, egghead idiots. Idiots who are so incompetent, they have to use new-fangled machinery like ultrasounds instead of their hands and divining rods and owl scat and other time honored techniques. I mean, one poster has met every vet student, and they're -all- ignorant!
I was reffering to the "majority"of vet students I came in contact with; not all. I do have quite a few friends who are now veterinarians and they all have a very extensive large animal background. I posted in reply to another post regarding the lack of knowledge from the vet who made the statement. Somehow I didn't "quote" the post properly. I'm just finding it hard to believe that a competent "veterinarian" could write the GFF horses' issues off as "teeth problems" when not one horse was physically touched by the vet. I seriously hope that Marin County is siccessful in their pursuit but this is starting to look like your typical California State Court result. I'm still waiting patiently to hear some news from the human society on where they are going to go from here. Carry on-
*Smart* would be coming up with a system that would give the end result that Jill Burnell would be banned for life from profiting from horses. Period.