Color experts...Knabstrupper X TB question
I have a friend who saw/rode Knabstruppers when she was in Europe last winter and fell maddly in love with them. She has bought several of our homebred painted TB youngsters and is familiar with the sabino/overo color. She was asking me if a solid TB mare who was 100% overo producer would be more likely to produce an appaloosa colored foal when bred to a Knabstrupper stallion. I told her I would ask the experts here. So...does a mare who carries the sabino gene stand a better chance of producing an app marked foal?? Are there other genes/things to consider. Thanks.
Need a Homozygous stallion!
Originally Posted by Sonesta
And, the site to look at is here:
If a coat pattern/characteristics are the desired result, one would need to breed a SOLID TB mare to a Knabstrupper stallion HOMOZYGOUS for the LP gene (main gene responsible for coat patterns and/or characteristics)...
Inheritence of the LP gene follows simple Mendelian genetics... :D
However, there are MANY "pattern" modifying genes that either enhance or inhibit the final appearence of an LP produced coat pattern... :yes:
Some "pinto/paint" genes are believed to play a role as PATN genes and, therefore, impact the appearence of a horse's LP produced coat pattern...
A generalization is that some of those "pinto/paint" genes may enhance the LP produced coat pattern... i.e., one may see "more" white in the LP coat pattern... Like, perhaps a larger blanket with spots, or similar...
With regard to LP genetics, and all other "conditions" being equal, one will see "more" of an LP coat pattern with the following (i.e., larger blanket, larger leopard, etc...):
Male gender > Female gender
Chestnut base coat (ee) > Black base coat (Ee) > Black base coat (EE)
If you consider the presence of the Agouti modifier added to base coat color, then a Bay coat color would follow a Chestnut coat color in the above sequence...
So, depending on what discipline one is hoping for the resulting foal, there are a handful of Knabstupper stallions here in the US to be considered, plus there are certainly those others available via frozen from abroad... Sorry, don't know what's in Canada...
In the US the two HOMOZYOUS Knabstrupper stallions that I can think of are:
Halifax Middelsom (http://www.knabstruppers4usa.com/ and http://www.knabstruppers4usa.com/Halifax_Middelsom.php)
Pegasus Vom Niehaus-Hof (http://www.baroque-n-dreams.com/Pegasus.htm)
And again, there are certainly other Knabstrupper stallions in the US, but these are the only two I can think of that are homozygous (again, only important if the desire for a coat pattern is a crucial requirement...)
Hopefully, others will chime in here... :lol:
For more information on the breed there are several sites on the internet, but the parent registry is the KNN in Denmark:
And, don't worry, there is an English translation... :lol:
Good Luck! :winkgrin:
Let me second (third) the suggestion of using the Appaloosa Project
website, lots of great info.
To get a leopard you need lp/LP, PATN1/?
by which I mean to get the leopard pattern color you need both the LP gene and the PATN1 gene.
If you have LP/LP then you get a few spot.
If you have lp/lp PATN1/? then you get a solid, but it can throw Leopard if bred to an LP carrying mate.
Blanket patterning is PATN2. so for a blanket spotted patterning you need
If you have LP/LP PATN2/? then you'll get a snow cap.
Sabino is not recognized by the KNN, so having the Sabino gene allows for more white to be expressed, and still get papers, but having Tobiano, or Overo will mean that you can't register the foal with KNN!
With a solid colored TB mare your best bet is a stallion that is LP/LP. PATN1/PATN1.
SO far the only stallion in North America that appears to have this color is Halifax Middelsom, since he has had so far 3 out of 3 Leopard foals from solid mares.
Sheila Archer, of the Appaloosa Project fame, says you need 10 leopard spotted foals from solid mares to be sure of PATN1/PATN1.
Halifax has 10 more foals due next year from solid mares, ask me again in 2013!
Hope this helps
Sabino and Splash are most definiately in Knabstruppers
Here's one example. Note the high whites, broad white blaze etc.