Tying the rail and riding papers... Happens all the time. Except the time my horse won of course. THAT judge was incredible and stood on no man's shoulders. LOL
As a dog and horse breeder lets take a look at your rebuttal.
Anyone can breed what ever line they want. If they do that, then they must be prepared to spend MONEY and promote and extoll the virtues.
They also present these lines as an opportunity for vigor and outcrossing for the "regular lines"
There are many, who breed horsess or dogs who do not care about the heritage nor the use. They are ribbon chasers. They do get into positions where their opinions become "the new standard" as we have all seen. Example..Afghan Hound Club of U.S. changing the standard for color to try and impede Sunny Shay of Grandeur Kennels from winning...circal 1950's-60's.
Afghan Hounds in Canada were BIG HAIRY Black Masked Red/blondes who clunked around the ring...AND THEY WON...I brought in a "different strain" called Bell Murray and they were BLACK, could truly move out...were smaller and typier..I fought against ALL ODDS...however..over a period of several years and lots of advertising...I started to win against the big guys...
It can be done.
Mary..has always stated they did not have the finaces to go big time. Sadly..that IS what shows are all about... MONEY..If you don't have any..don't complain about the shows...find other ways to extoll your lines virtues.
People are fickle. The FIRST big time moving TWH that is flat shod and can bob as you stated THAT WINS...will create a buzz and those who are BL'ers will dash towards them...
It is about perception. Make it GLAMOUR to have flat shod big movers...it there are ten that you know of...ALL of you enter the same show...safety in numbers and also the judge will see they are NOT the exception...and will start to pin them accordingly.
Change takes a long long long time and is costly...especially for the show ring.
Do a major fund raiser...sponsor a class with a Ten thousand dollar award for natural..not sore AND absolutely NO skin or hair ripples on the legs showing they may have been sored....create a new buzz and opportunity..
It can be done with lots of time....volunteer work....and money as the incentive in the show ring
As for Sunridge...I am sure her horses were lovely...but the lines they were from CAN produce horses that look like Missouri plow horses...I know...I had one. Great thinker..just not Ms. America...more along the lines of Ms Hutterite...
Once again you have zero idea what you're talking about. Your references are just plain wrong, I never had any Kalu breeding. My stallion was a typey as they come. You can't ride the heads anyway. Those pretty heads don't have much brains. I don't like dumb animals any more than dumb people. The modern ASB breeding is just as flawed as the TWH. I know that Afghans are NOT known for brains and neither are the heavily bred Sultan horses, I've had those too. Pretty they were but dumber than fenceposts.
ff you still do not read nor understand most posts.
You continue to infer there is no support of the flat shod TWH.
You miss out on a lot of good stuff. And your posts read like a dinner guest telling someone how good the appetizer of a meal was when the dessert plates are being cleared for cocktails.
You is waaaay behind and out of step.
Mary.. dumb afghans...sorry...have many CD's and lure champions to dispute that. IF you knew about the breed you would understand they are a sight hound....they see a cat two blocks away...and they focus on it FOR THE KILL...therefore they do NOT listen and comeback unless they have been specifically trained with in CD etc (Utility) to do so.
I did not mention Kalu breeding. I happen to like the line due to the talent...you can tell a trainer not worth his/her salt...first words...I Hate Kalu lines..they are tough and they do think and they can do what is asked...but they require a true trainer.
I expect the same occurs in the TWH...there are talented lines the trainer have discouraged as they take longer and won't take crap.
I have a wonderful Sultan line stallion who has a great thinking process as do his offspring so one should go individual by individual. I do know what I am talking about as everything I posted...in reference to you...is what you have stated on TROT over the years. YOU complained your Dad's lines could not win..and that the breed and the breeders were wrong in not breeding OTHER types.
With the TWH ..I am starting to underestand that pacey has become a problem against the true movement...there will be breeders who still have that "old time correct movement" so maybe it is time for the new enthusiast to seek out those breeders...acquire some horses...
If, as some have claimed..there are NO MORE true movers...then I guess the breed is doomed...but I bet that is not the case.
Not the case is correct. And there is plenty of enthusiastic $upport for the TWH.
You need a new drum to bang, FF
I have read the postive comments but then BOTH sides also claim THOSE horses are sored for the ring.
I KNOW there is support...but many, including the flat shod supporters claim there are very few true moving TWH's...they have been bred out and pacey has overtaken as they are easier to train for an incorrect movement..you now see in the ring.
IF they are out there in abundance...then a group of you need to attend shows and let spectators see them...just one or two at a show has no impact.
I don't think it is my reading comprehension...but the views of the posters I am reflecting
Maybe a nice well bred flat shod TWH?
My responses are getting out of order to your posts - so for clarity I will say there are many nice moving flat shod TWH - you should get you one FF. Next time you are in Tennessee or Kentucky - let someone here know and they will hook you up with a nice one.
okay....please enlighten me. In Arizona the best they can muster is a couple of entries for the TWH division... California, Washington , Oregon the same. Sadly, in Canada they are known as the hillbilly horse as individuals will actually let them roll in the hitching ring...slap a saddle back on them and put them in a class...limited professionalism
I saw the same philosophy with flat shod in Nashville, Shelby and a couple of other shows...the BL garner attention because they are bright, well turned out and LOOK like they belong in the show ring. That is only MY observation knowing next to nothing about the breed. I DO know about presentation as I have spent my life showing dogs and horses.
Rosemary Jordan (Alberta) bred some nice movers I rode in the 80's,,,on their farm. Family owned a Merry Boy or Merry Go Boy (something like that son). He was, according to the grandfather (when alive) the best to ride to check on cows..but couldn't work with them..so he rode the TWH and the cowboys rode the utility steeldust and Arab/TB crosses...helped his back.
Well - more than a few times folks have pointed out some very nice moving TWH. ANd I know I have directed you to the NWHA venue. But what is keeping you on the same groove as I read it may just be your limited experience with what you call a hillbillly Canadian venue and/or unfamiliarity with the TWH.
But if you want to expand these limits - I will say they shine up and polish well as any breed - with or without set tails or high stepping feet. And yes - not all will show in a true well timed running walk - but IMO most often that is rider error.
Showing a gait is much much more complex in the gaited land than in the multigaited land of the saddlebred. As long as it is not trot or pace or canter - and it can go fast and then slow down with a high step it will be acceptable in a saddlebred show. In a TWH or other "smooth gait only show" (iow no trot) the criteria to be judged is much much more stringent.
SO if you venture over to a real TWH barn - they will train your eye a little more and you will be a little broader in your thinking and appreciation of the gait and how it is or is not achieved and nuanced.
You may find as others have the flat shod TWH is very cool and full of grand potentials without the stack, spurs, chains etc etc etc. And the flat shod TWH has a great and vocal following. No need for the stacked crowd to come over. the camp draws its own enthusiasts.
On that same note - I doubt the other saddleseat divisions will draw the stacked crowd and their $$ to them. You see - IMO - the other high stepping divisions were very careful not to go to the extreme that encumbers the horses ability to move with exuberance, know what I mean??? Well if not - just rewind some of the stacked videos and look at the lack of ride in the rider.
I am so confused.
Do we all agree, well, with the obvious exception of Cordial, that soring TWH's for BL shows is bad?
If the flat shod shows aren't good enough, find something else to do that doesn't physically harm the horse. It's not that complicated. Trail ride, fer crying out loud! :D
Sorry for the derail guys.
sunridge1 I LOVE the way you describe the saddlebred. Gives me goosebumps!!!!
*blushes* Thanks Hurley. It is what they are to me. I'm just plain not a fan of the dumbed down modern versions.
Lack of substance with conformational faults I couldn't in good conscience reproduce. Yes they can be prettier and easier to handle but they don't hold muster when for real $hit hits the fan. I prefer the type the Generals rode in the Civil War, they keep us both out trouble instead of making it, on the trail, thank you very much.
Which coincides with all the other breed show rings. I'm not a fad based person about anything, fashion, horses, dogs. What I've seen regarding my beloved TWH's, ASB's and German Shepherd Dogs in the name of show over the last 30 years has been shameful!
My TWH that I have now is pacey. He racks most of the time. Doesn't really matter to me I love is easy personality and his smooth rack. I can coax him into a true running walk but you know what? It is very taxing on him psychically. He simply is NOT built to do that gait. Long backed, and a bit sickle hocked his body style is worlds away from my Merry Go Boy grandson. Where that horse couldn't do another gait. W-RW-C. And he could really move out in a RW. Not the very slow and very difficult for them running walk I've seen on the last 3 I've owned.