the original listing has since been superceeded. i don't have it handy but 730b could well have been in the more recent ranking.
the list is subjective to the point that only horses winning money within that measured timeframe contribute to those rankings. when viewed over, say, a decade, then you see patterns and consistencies, such as stam 776 turning up in the top ten almost without fail.
730b is indeed a top stam and shows up in this ranking regularly. it just so happened that horses from this stam didn't win money to get into the ranking for the period quoted by the op.
if i come across the current listing (which i'm sure is buried around here somewhere) i'll try to post it. if anyone else has it handy, feel free....
Neat. I wonder what the current listings are.... one of my KWPN mares is from stamm 006. Thanks for posting!
Don't forget Bristol and Wistful- both from Grey Fox breeding program.
Rusty Stewart's farm? Great news. Meanwhile, I so love long running posts - did someone post the updated "mare line" rankings?
Originally Posted by RanchoAdobe
Yes, it's fun to see that the mare line of a KWPN mare I recently purchased is ranked # 8 on this list for showjumpers: KWPN 093 (Kalusha , Oranta & Renville )
However, my mare is a dressage horse (Elite KWPN) that got great scores for her dressage gaits both at her keuring and under saddle (IBOP and PAVO cup) and not so great scores for jumping. Her sire is Sandro Hit, but the mare line is obviously jumpers. Funny thing of course; Sandro Hit himself originated from jumping lines.
I think that this ranking was never updated, because there isn't an acceptable way to rank "mare lines" plus the fact that it's almost impossible to get correct data from all the SB concerned.
Originally Posted by 3Dogs
But it would be nice to find an acceptable system to rank the mare lines, we can discuss what need to be taken in consideration to have a valid ranking, who wants to start giving his point of view?
This ranking is done every year taking the top sport horses in the world and seeing what mare family they derive from. This is averaged over a regular time period. Those with most sport horses are listed in the top 25. Perhaps I am missing something, but it appears straight forward.
The top 25 mare families in the world for jumping and dressage were compiled by 2 individuals. 1 from Germany and 1 from Holland and they published this in the Sport Horse Breeding magazine. I'm not sure the mag is still in circulation.
I found a magazine, that is probably not the one Bayhawk was referring to in the first post: http://www.horsebreedersmagazine.com/
This one started to publish in Oct 2009 and has no mare ranking list.
i wish i could find the photo i took of the double-page spread listing the results... too many cell phones ago...
this was at least 3 years ago i last saw or knew of an update.
would be happy to know of anything since, but skeptical its been kept up.
Going back to the beginning and reading this thread all the way to the end has been rather amusing.
We have two breeders asserting with great vehemence that Hickstead will ever be approved for breeding with the Holsteiner Verband because he's too small and not a Holsteiner. Lots of discussion about how the AHHA was misguided when they approved him.
IIRC, both KWPN and the HV ended up giving him breeding approval based primarily on his competition results. Since that time, again, IIRC, at least some of the breeding registries have begun to re-evaluate their policies to put more emphasis on competition results.
To be a bit snarky, a few of the seers were looking into clouded crystal balls.
And if you knew the horse and the history of Verband approval process you would understand those statements. He was tiny , incorrect and not a breeding type.
Originally Posted by vineyridge
The Verband didn't seek him out for approval. He was petitioned to them and they approved him based on his sport performance.
According to most , he would have gotten around 3- 5 mares in Holstein had he not died. Only the wealthiest breeders there with the right mare would have tried.
So please Viney......go try and pick a fight with someone else.
Sport results are everything when you are breeding jumpers. No international rider or owner of international jumpers gives a hooey who is inspection champion in Holstein or anywhere for that matter if it can't jump a 1.6 M cleanly and with scope to spare.
As much as the Holstein system has its virtues, it also has its flaws .......so rarely acknowledged by those who over promote the Holstein approach on this forum. Just looking at their inspection results tells some of that story. The top performers are typically scored in the 43-46 range and the super high scorers with the extreme Holsteiner type and super correct conformation rarely produce the international horses. And the Holstein book as also been opened to outside blood recently because it has to, not because it wants to. So much for "pure" Holsteiner being the Holy Grail of jumper breeding.
"Sport results are everything when you are breeding jumpers" ?
You have not a clue as usual knowthatifly.....
How about these sport results.....#1 Studbook in the world and the #1 and #2 ranked horses in the world in 2012. They achieved the #1 stud book status and had the top 2 ranked horses in the world while maintaining their breed type and breeding within their breed type guidelines.
Come on back when you got something better and we can discuss it further if you like.
Although I agree with you in the fact that sport results are important for breeding jumpers as it is more likely to breed a great jumper out of great jumpers (quality is inherited) I have to disagree with your view of holsteiner type because we have seen a lot of top performers with the ideal holsteiner type and conformation producing top jumpers. Take a look at stallions such as Cassini, Contender or Caretino some of the greatest holsteiner stallions who are the top producers for jumpers, or more recently the stallion Casall that is one of the top horses in the sport right now, was reserve champion of his approval at holstein and is now one of the most successful breeding stallions of his generation.
Originally Posted by knowthatifly
So if type and conformation are irrelevant (which would turn breeding pointless), why do top breeders care for and correct conformation in order to get better jumpers? And as Bayhawk says, we are talking about the #1 studbook in the world.
It is very rare that you see a top jumper that wasnt bred to the standards that are currently available and it is still considered to be the top formula so to speak. I dont know any straight legged mare owners wanting to mess with a crooked stallion simply off of performance record. Maybe a leading sire (as in performance of the offspring)he/she would put to a realiable mare for keeping the foals well conformed in the leg area.
They have not relied heavily on performance for either mares or stallions thus far and look at the record? It speaks for it self.
Now compare that to breed breeders here who rely heavily on records but because of that have bred out a lot of soundness and much of the sport ability they might still have without outcrossing to help them out (appendix using TB and Half arab allowing any).
On another hand if you are not PRODUCING horses with records then using straight confo and a shoot jump isnt going to do anything but also breed out handy horses or ridability.
The fact that the production is still top shelf only means it is working and I do think other registries should get on board with their standards and not the other way around.
I think the US has a lot to learn from the registries in general but even more so with the smaller more careful registry that is doing so well :)
Driving force behind the family rankings was Jac Remijnse from Horsegenetics.nl He also was the publisher of Sport Horse Breeding, a magazine that stopped end of 2011.
If you want to see the Family rankings for jumpers, send an email to me.
g.oudeweernink ´at´ home.nl
You get his last one from 2011, compiled over 5 years. (From 2006 on). So it is not a yearly ranking.
Just for fun... the listing for the 5 years ending in 2011...
1. Holst 162
2. Holst 18b1
3. Holst 776
4. NL 002
5. SF 7
6. Holst 741
7. Holst 1298
8. NL 022
9. Holst 18a2
10. NL 020
11. Holst 7126
12. NL 013
13. NL 006
14. Holst 318d1
15. Holst 4847
16. SF 121/122
17. Holst 1916
18. SF 61/63
19. Holst 474a
20. Holst 730b
21. SF 28 & 48
22. Holst 890
23. Holst 2472
24. NL 114
25. SF 87
I was wondering why Opaline des Pins was not listed as one of the top mare families. She didn't have many daughters--maybe two or three, but her sons were exemplary. In looking things up, I was struck to see that the German Olympic SF event horse, Opgun Louvo, is by one of her sons. She was truly one of the all time great mares.