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pegasusmom
May. 30, 2007, 06:23 PM
Anyone going care to post updates? The website is useless.

hoofhearted
May. 30, 2007, 06:34 PM
I heard yesterday (Tuesday) that the Advanced horse trials dressage (otherwise known as mandatory outing dressage) would start around 5pm Wednesday. This was because the other dressage days would be too long if they tacked the advanced dressage onto the end of them and you can only have the FEI judges work for so many hours. Got this info from one of the grooms out there.

CookiePony
May. 30, 2007, 06:44 PM
Argh, that website! :mad:

Yes, please post updates here.

Go Pickle Road!!! :D

GotSpots
May. 30, 2007, 06:58 PM
Three star horses do dressage tomorrow; two star horses on Friday. There are some times available to the riders (we received an idea of when ours would go), but of course things are always a bit up in the air: it appears that the two star will go first on Saturday, than the three star, then the advanced. Waiting to hear how the jog went, but assuming no news is good news.

RunForIt
May. 30, 2007, 07:11 PM
I have a call into Mary Bess who is up there helping Mike Winter (when oh when will Emma come back?!!!)...will post whatever I find out. :cool:

pegasusmom
May. 30, 2007, 08:56 PM
Thanks!

Cookie Pony I am with you! Arrgghh - that website :mad:

hoofhearted
May. 30, 2007, 10:35 PM
wow! things at Jersey Fresh must really be secret. I've left two messages and nobody has called me back. 9:30pm on the east coast by now.

Firefox
May. 31, 2007, 09:11 AM
Advance HT dressage results are up

http://www.horseparkofnewjersey.com/results.htm


going to be hot up there!!

Weatherford
May. 31, 2007, 09:27 AM
OH -less then 5 penalty points between 1st and 13th??? :eek: (or can I not add? )

Go IRISH horses - and GO TEDDY!!!

mythical84
May. 31, 2007, 09:31 AM
Wow! Nice to see so many scores in the 30s. :)

boppin along
May. 31, 2007, 09:44 AM
Yeah... GO JON !!!!
He's going to end in the top 3, my prediction, and on to the Pan Ams, and he deserves it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What goes around comes around!

Firefox
May. 31, 2007, 09:59 AM
Wow! Nice to see so many scores in the 30s. :)

Does anyone know what dressage test they rode?? Was it an FEI test or a HT test, cause if it was a HT test then it makes sense to have that many scores in the 30's

hoofhearted
May. 31, 2007, 10:36 AM
according to the omnibus page on the USEA website, this is the dressage test the advanced division rode:
Test & arena sizes: CCI3*-2005 FEI Three-Star Event Test A-Std.
HT A-2005 FEI Three-star Event Test A-Std.
CCI2*-2005 FEI Two-Star Event Test A-Std. Arenas: All weather footing.

polo3day
May. 31, 2007, 11:26 AM
Anyone know any scores from this morning's dressage?

Coree
May. 31, 2007, 11:38 AM
Go Pickle Road! I will be down there Saturday and Sunday to help groom -- will post pictures next week :)

InVA
May. 31, 2007, 12:21 PM
David needs to coach a little dressage!

gr8fulrider
May. 31, 2007, 01:05 PM
Very tight among the first 1/2 of the riders. GO TEDDY!

Eventrgrl
May. 31, 2007, 04:19 PM
yay emily and cahir!

are most of the advanced competitors not running XC?? it will be a loooong day volunteering saturday but there will be so many BNRs going, im soo excited!

basil's mom
May. 31, 2007, 04:31 PM
I must say good job Craig Thompson, Aiken is rooting for you.

LAZ
May. 31, 2007, 04:40 PM
What am I doing wrong? I can't get any results to come up. There is a spot that says "results click here" but when I try I get a message that it is disabled?

goodymar1188
May. 31, 2007, 04:41 PM
There looks to be today's dressage results for the *** now posted... at least half of them are!! :)

Shrapnel
May. 31, 2007, 09:12 PM
Donna and Rocket are 10th!!!! :D Webbie is 16th!!!!!

Karen is 6th!!!!!!

Hoping for a great cross country run for both of them!! :)

CookiePony
May. 31, 2007, 09:47 PM
http://www.useventing.com/competitions.php?id=951

mythical84
May. 31, 2007, 10:00 PM
Am I missing something? Where is John Williams and Sloopy? I thought he withdrew from Rolex so he could run at Jersey Fresh for a spot on the Pan Am team.

AikenEventer
May. 31, 2007, 10:16 PM
I must say good job Craig Thompson, Aiken is rooting for you.

Craig posted on his website about dressage and the cross-country course:

http://www.craigthompsoneventing.com/blog/

Firefox
May. 31, 2007, 10:40 PM
Ok, if the CCI*** and the Adv HT both did the same test, why the difference in the penalty scores, the percentages were higher in the CCI*** than the Adv HT but the penalty scores are lower for the HT than the CCI??????

Eventrgrl
May. 31, 2007, 10:45 PM
Am I missing something? Where is John Williams and Sloopy? I thought he withdrew from Rolex so he could run at Jersey Fresh for a spot on the Pan Am team.

perhaps he opted not to run... he is the course designer so hes probably pretty busy this weekend... and he would have had to compete HC

pwynnnorman
May. 31, 2007, 11:36 PM
Craig posted on his website about dressage and the cross-country course:

http://www.craigthompsoneventing.com/blog/

I love those blogs. Anyone else known for having blogs on their sites?

retreadeventer
Jun. 1, 2007, 12:12 AM
Ok, if the CCI*** and the Adv HT both did the same test, why the difference in the penalty scores, the percentages were higher in the CCI*** than the Adv HT but the penalty scores are lower for the HT than the CCI??????

Could there have been more judges -- or less judges -- ? Or, different judges for the divisions? Thus the scoring differences? You're the math person, not me, just thinking there was a judge difference....

pegasusmom
Jun. 1, 2007, 07:25 AM
perhaps he opted not to run... he is the course designer so hes probably pretty busy this weekend... and he would have had to compete HC

Not sure that is true, unless it is an FEI rule. He does not have to compete HC if he is the course designer under USEF rules.

And the FEI scores are different/higher as there is a modifier that the score gets multiplied by.

Firefox
Jun. 1, 2007, 09:19 AM
Could there have been more judges -- or less judges -- ? Or, different judges for the divisions? Thus the scoring differences? You're the math person, not me, just thinking there was a judge difference....

No they show three judges and the percentage scores from each and then a penalty score. I dont know, earlier there was a post about how many where in the thirties in the HT and there are none in the CCI***.

pegasusmom
Jun. 1, 2007, 09:28 AM
Because the FEI scores get multiplied by a modifier - I think it is 1.5 - so FEI scores are always higher than corresponding horse trial scores.

olympicprincess
Jun. 1, 2007, 11:06 AM
Craig posted on his website about dressage and the cross-country course:

http://www.craigthompsoneventing.com/blog/
I love his comment "This event is so late in the year..." :lol:

Copper
Jun. 1, 2007, 11:22 AM
Does anyone know what happened to Jessica Ruppel and Naughty by Nature??? There is no result in the 3* - this was their chance to qualify for the Canadian team! :(

Firefox
Jun. 1, 2007, 11:42 AM
Because the FEI scores get multiplied by a modifier - I think it is 1.5 - so FEI scores are always higher than corresponding horse trial scores.

So even if they were doing the FEI test you would only do the modifier for the CCI***?? Correct?? That then makes more sense!!

pegasusmom
Jun. 1, 2007, 11:46 AM
Yes - the advanced HT is run under USEF rules, the CCI under FEI rules. Or at least that is how I understand it and if I am wrong, I am sure others will sort me out :lol:

Jagger
Jun. 1, 2007, 12:45 PM
Does anyone know what happened to Jessica Ruppel and Naughty by Nature??? There is no result in the 3* - this was their chance to qualify for the Canadian team! :(

Unfortunatly NBN didn't pass the jog.

eventrider
Jun. 1, 2007, 12:54 PM
That sucks about NBN!! Does anyone know about Ashley Adams? Thought she was aiming for the 3 star. Thanks!

pegasusmom
Jun. 1, 2007, 03:21 PM
That sucks about NBN!! Does anyone know about Ashley Adams? Thought she was aiming for the 3 star. Thanks!

Ash had a couple of issues she wanted to iron out and will wait until the fall.

FlightCheck
Jun. 1, 2007, 04:23 PM
Does anyone know why William Coleman is riding both of the Pollard's horses? (Ret Mercury - love that horse!) and Icarus?

Eventrgrl
Jun. 1, 2007, 04:47 PM
oh i am so excited my two faves are 1-2 in the ***

and no idea about will coleman riding the pollard's horses, but selfishly, i am glad, because more rides for him means more times i will see his beautiful face tomorrow when im volunteering

steves
Jun. 1, 2007, 05:59 PM
Yes - the advanced HT is run under USEF rules, the CCI under FEI rules. Or at least that is how I understand it and if I am wrong, I am sure others will sort me out :lol:

Yes, you have it correct. National horse trilas are supposed to use 100-the percentage score while FEI multiplies theis by 1.5. It is independent of the test. Two years ago Fair Hill mistakenly scored the FEI test ridden as part of a National HT by using the 1.5 factor. This caused all sorts of problems determining qualifications since 50 is the key number in dressage in a HT and 76 is the qualifying score in FEI. Thus it appeared that a large number of riders did not qualify but the problem was the multiplicative factor. If more than one judge, it is simply an average of the precentage scores.

Karma
Jun. 1, 2007, 06:22 PM
See you all on the CC field tomorrow~

KellyS
Jun. 1, 2007, 06:36 PM
Any one want to arrange a COTH "meeting"? I'll be there in the afternoon (hopefully) to watch. :) I'll be wearing a navy blue polo shirt that says Harvest Moon Farm and more than likely a straw hat with black ribbon. If you see me, please say hi!

pegasusmom
Jun. 1, 2007, 07:03 PM
Anyone going in the morning - please give a cheer for Holly and Benwald in the 2* - currently in 4th place!

boppin along
Jun. 1, 2007, 09:29 PM
PLEASE anyone out there at Jersey today, what is the latest standings for the ADV???? The website has nothing updated and I am dieing or is it dying to know what happened after X-C???!

Shrapnel
Jun. 1, 2007, 10:29 PM
PLEASE anyone out there at Jersey today, what is the latest standings for the ADV???? The website has nothing updated and I am dieing or is it dying to know what happened after X-C???!

All divisions will go XC on Saturday. According to EventingEtc.com, The CCI** goes 1st at 8:30 a.m., then the CCI*** at 11:30 a.m., then finally the Advanced H.T. goes at 2:30 p.m.

Karma
Jun. 1, 2007, 11:52 PM
I seem to remember people bringing dogs (leashed) to Jersey Fresh. I would love to sit at a jump with the dog, but I want to make sure it's ok. Anyone know?

Sarah Ralston
Jun. 2, 2007, 11:51 AM
There were loose dogs running all over the place on Tuesday and Wednesday when I was there volunteering for the check in and Rutgers Research project. Hopefully they are all leashed now. I doubt the wisdom of having a dog that might bark or spook a horse at those huge jumps! I love dogs too but having them running around under foot of horses and people, especially at a competition as important as this for the riders I consider just plain rude.

clpony
Jun. 2, 2007, 02:41 PM
Anyone know about xcountry today?
More specifically how was Teddy?
thanks........

austin
Jun. 2, 2007, 05:10 PM
all horses and riders okay ???

Eventrgrl
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:14 PM
all horses and riders okay ???

I wish i could say yes but towards the end of the *** div. a horse collapsed coming out of the vet box and rumor is he fell dead. The rider let out several blood-cutterling screams. It was dreadful. I am pretty sure of the horse's name but not 100% sure so I wont put that out there. Im sure there will be a press release soon. :no:

it was pretty hot (low 90's with a slight breeze and very sunny) and the footing was pretty good so most of the 3* riders were really gunning for the time in the heat. Actually there were quite a few double clears.

Eventrgrl
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:18 PM
Anyone know about xcountry today?
More specifically how was Teddy?
thanks........

Teddy didnt run XC. I believe the only Rolex rider who ran XC today was Emilee Libby and Cahir who I think had a runout at Rolex so they had something to prove to the selectors. Becky Holder also ran today but she retired during Rolex not to far into the course.

Clear Blue
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:21 PM
It was hot! Some horses did not do well in the heat/and or lacked fitness. I was by the first and last water, and for some horses there was not much left in the gas tank by the time they came back through.

The PA system quit halfway through the 3* - so I am not sure of anyones standings.

My favorite pair was Will Coleman and Icarus. I wish the USEA site was working (for horse info), as I would love to know more about the horse. Will, of course, isn't hard to watch either:).

Teddy did not run X-C in the Advanced section. Jonathan Holling and Lion King looked ready for anything. Becky Holder and Comet looked to be having a good run.

Lexington
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:23 PM
Eight Saint James Place died tragically after cross country; heat was the speculative cause. We should all say a prayer for Laine Ashker and her family.


It's too bad they ran the 2 star first, leaving 3 star horses to face blazing afternoon temperatures.
From http://www.useventing.com/competitions.php?id=953

In consideration of the extreme conditions, the organizers have reduced the length of both CCI courses by 450 metres, reducing a loop which would have taken riders into a new section of the property. Said Mosser with a laugh, “It was a good idea to take that loop out, but I kind of felt, ‘damn, the footing in that field is the nicest on the course!’. But something needed to be done, and anything is better than nothing.”

The Jersey Fresh organizers have also shifted all of the start times earlier, in the hopes of avoiding the worst heat of the afternoon. If all goes smoothly, cross-country should be over by 2:30 pm. At a Friday afternoon rider’s meeting, riders were also encouraged to cool their horses “aggressively” (in the words of David O’Connor) both after their warm-up, and after the finish, using the 10,000 lbs. of ice which will be made available near the finish flags. No doubt more than a few of the spectators will be coveting that mountain of ice, but cold drinks and lots of shade trees on course should make things pleasant enough for those on foot.

Classic Melody
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:24 PM
I was at the last fence. I did not see Eight Saint James Place go down personally but heard Laine. The horse looked terrible at the last but jumped it as well as any. I feel so terrible for her. The whole thing was just heartbreaking.

The rest of the day was great - some early falls in the ** but nothing too serious. The course was beautiful and I saw some terrific riding. And speaking of the heat and fitness - yes, many of the horses looked pretty rough at fence 30. The horse I would say looked the best, and jumped it like it was fence one, was Poggio. He could nearly have gone around again!

Eventrgrl
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:32 PM
[QUOTE=Clear Blue;2474721]
My favorite pair was Will Coleman and Icarus. I wish the USEA site was working (for horse info), as I would love to know more about the horse. Will, of course, isn't hard to watch either:).QUOTE]

Aw, Will Coleman. I was sooo bummed that his ** winning horse fell early in the course. He didnt run his 2nd ** horse but was walking the *** course instead (he had a little dirt on his polo but other than that looked good) and his ride with Icarus was truly impressive. What a gorgeous horse... and rider!

BigRuss1996
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:37 PM
Oh NO!....... poor Laine she must just be heart broken. That is so so sad..... Godspeed "Jamie"



Eight Saint James Place died tragically after cross country; heat was the speculative cause. We should all say a prayer for Laine Ashker and her family.


It's too bad they ran the 2 star first, leaving 3 star horses to face blazing afternoon temperatures.
From http://www.useventing.com/competitions.php?id=953

In consideration of the extreme conditions, the organizers have reduced the length of both CCI courses by 450 metres, reducing a loop which would have taken riders into a new section of the property. Said Mosser with a laugh, “It was a good idea to take that loop out, but I kind of felt, ‘damn, the footing in that field is the nicest on the course!’. But something needed to be done, and anything is better than nothing.”

The Jersey Fresh organizers have also shifted all of the start times earlier, in the hopes of avoiding the worst heat of the afternoon. If all goes smoothly, cross-country should be over by 2:30 pm. At a Friday afternoon rider’s meeting, riders were also encouraged to cool their horses “aggressively” (in the words of David O’Connor) both after their warm-up, and after the finish, using the 10,000 lbs. of ice which will be made available near the finish flags. No doubt more than a few of the spectators will be coveting that mountain of ice, but cold drinks and lots of shade trees on course should make things pleasant enough for those on foot.

Eventrgrl
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:41 PM
Eight Saint James Place died tragically after cross country; heat was the speculative cause. We should all say a prayer for Laine Ashker and her family.

Yes thats what I heard. They absolutely flew right by my spot on XC (near the last water). I remember thinking "geez she has a lot of energy." (Jamie was the last of 3 horses for Laine today.) Its just sad that he'd just left the vet box (or so i heard) and that means he must have been cleared. Or maybe I am wrong, Im not too knowledgable about vet boxes. Either way its a horrible thing to happen. Laine had so much planned for this horse this year (Burghley in the fall) and I believe this was the horse her mother and her had trained from a 3 y/o OTT. :no:

vineyridge
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:42 PM
How od was Eight Saint James Place? I recall seeing him run at Rolex one year, but don't remember precisely when. :confused:

Isn't that the horse Laine Asker came off in 2005 and broke her neck?

Dear lord, my mind is going!! :winkgrin:

Eventrgrl
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:44 PM
How od was Eight Saint James Place? I recall seeing him run at Rolex one year, but don't remember precisely when. :confused:

Isn't that the horse Laine Asker came off in 2005 and broke her neck?

Dear lord, my mind is going!! :winkgrin:

sixteen this year i believe

Lexington
Jun. 2, 2007, 06:50 PM
Oh NO!....... poor Laine she must just be heart broken.

The account I heard described her as totally devastated. She did everything she could to save him at the end. It sounds like it was absolutely traumatic for everyone :cry:

Roney
Jun. 2, 2007, 09:01 PM
I had the VERY great misfortune to be at the finish line when Laine and her horse finished up, and saw the whole incident - it was the most horrible, heart-wrenching thing I'd seen in my life. Won't go into details because it's not really necessary, but suffice to say Laine was visibly and audibly devastated - sounded like her heart was breaking. Even though I have no connection to the horse or rider, *I* couldn't stop crying for some time afterward. It's a real loss. :cry:

Alibhai's Alibar
Jun. 2, 2007, 11:29 PM
My heartfelt condolences to Laine and all of the connections of Eight Saint James Place on the loss of their beloved horse.

The day was hot but I got to see some really great riding and some top-notch horses. I'll be uploading photos from today as I find time. Here's what I have in my online photo album so far:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockandracehorses/sets/493242/

eventrider
Jun. 2, 2007, 11:46 PM
Roney, did the horse go down before getting to the vet box, or after being released? My heart goes out to Lanie....what a tragedy.

Carol Ames
Jun. 3, 2007, 12:58 AM
Did no one make the time crosscountry?:confused:

snoopy
Jun. 3, 2007, 01:06 AM
it was like a billion degrees...so I would be surprised to see riders pushing their horses in the heat....Kind of negates the point of showing fitness at this "mandatory outing"...but still good dressage scores, clear XC and stadium should be enough to show "good form"...heart rate and recovery could be shown at a later date for those on the short list.

Carol Ames
Jun. 3, 2007, 01:16 AM
Sarah, gthe dogs' owners wre not fined?

Carol Ames
Jun. 3, 2007, 01:17 AM
Rutgers Research project?:confused:

Carol Ames
Jun. 3, 2007, 01:28 AM
Were the cooling tents/canopies inuse?

Karma
Jun. 3, 2007, 02:05 AM
We too were at Jersey Fresh today. First, sitting by the coffin complex and then by the water during the Advanced run. I remember seeing Eight Saint James going past, later hearing screaming, but thought not much of it. I am so sorry to hear that he passed over the rainbow bridge. I was thinking it was such a successful day. Many riders looked good, although some very tired in the *** at the coffin.

buschkn
Jun. 3, 2007, 02:45 AM
How truly horrifying for Laine. I am so sorry to hear about the loss. My thoughts are with her and all who loved her great horse.

Roney
Jun. 3, 2007, 08:56 AM
Roney, did the horse go down before getting to the vet box, or after being released? My heart goes out to Lanie....what a tragedy.

As far as I could tell, it was before - IIRC it was less than a minute after they finished - I think Laine was just about to pull his saddle off. But I wasn't close enough to see everything very clearly, so don't take it as fact...

FWIW, for those who were asking, they had a very elaborate cooling-down system going on in the (much cooler) indoor at the horse park, which was just after the finish line - industrial-sized fans, buckets and buckets of water, and of course a crew of vets. I watched them for awhile (for learning purposes), and it looked like it was working well. In fact, when Laine's horse went down, probably ten people came running from the indoor with ice water to throw on the horse. It was just tragically hot in the end.

pwynnnorman
Jun. 3, 2007, 01:18 PM
I'm not sure if it is right to dwell on this, but I can't help but asking this.

I've heard of a couple of event horses who came down with uneven heart beats at some points in their careers (I can't remember the actual term used for the condition). The condition was corrected, but if you recognize what I'm referring to, is it possible for a horse to have such a condition and it not become known until too late? What causes such a condition to arise? (I wish I could remember the term.) Is that the likely cause of this tragedy?

WNT
Jun. 3, 2007, 01:23 PM
Cardiac arrythmia or something? I've heard of horses dropping on a Novice course from such.

vineyridge
Jun. 3, 2007, 01:25 PM
Pwynn, I know exactly what you're talking about. There was a fairly long article somewhere about this condition and a technique that has been developed in Canada at Guelph to deal with it. Apparently the fix is (to date) almost permanent, but it may take several treatments. Can't remember the name of the condition, but do remember that the article talked about an eventer/vet who recognized her horse was in trouble and pulled up on course.

Were people's horses just not ready yet for summer heat and Atlanta '96 conditions?

shea'smom
Jun. 3, 2007, 01:37 PM
I think Prince Panache had that? Karen pulled him up at some big event, maybe overseas? He was treated and obviously recovered brillantly.
I am so sorry for this rider.

Bensmom
Jun. 3, 2007, 03:05 PM
IIRC, Jamie is indeed an OTTB and Laine has had him for a very long time. She and her mom have performed the national anthem for us at RHHT the last couple of years, and I held him for her during the performance and tack change last year -- nice horse, but he isn't easy and she's done a great job with him and is devoted to him. My heart is breaking for her and her mom :-(

Libby

LisaB
Jun. 3, 2007, 04:11 PM
Poor Laine! I know she adored this horse and while she's so young, took every precaution and took care of him to her upmost ability. She puts so much heart into her horses and riding. How devasting for her at such a young age.

NRB
Jun. 3, 2007, 06:20 PM
oh God how terrible for Laine. Jingles for her.

Shrapnel
Jun. 3, 2007, 06:31 PM
Final Results are up!

Clark won the CCI**.

Bonnie won the CCI*** AND the Advanced H.T.

What a weekend for these two!

Alibhai's Alibar
Jun. 3, 2007, 06:34 PM
ETA: Sorry Shrapnel- I posted at the same time that you did

Full results are posted:

http://www.horseparkofnewjersey.com/results.htm

Top 10 in **

Clark Montgomery Up Spirit
Bruce (Buck) Davidson, Jr Ballynoecastle RM
Jessica Kiener My Boy Bobby
Jennifer Libby Jazz King
Clark Montgomery Raconteur
Will Faudree Mr McWhinney
Andrea Leatherman Mensa
Susie Beale Isabella II
Jonathan Holling RingFort Tinkatoo
Olivia Loiacono Subway

Top 10 in ***

Bonnie Mosser Merloch
Stephen S Bradley From
Mara Dean Nicki Henley
William Coleman III Icarus
Kim Severson Tipperary Liadhnan
Karen O'Connor Allstar
Selena O'Hanlon Colombo
Allison Springer Arthur
Dana Widstrand Relentless Pursuit
Kim Severson Tsunami

Top 10 in Adv

Bonnie Mosser Close the Deal
Jonathan Holling Lion King II
Waylon Roberts Paleface
Emilee Libby Cahir
Sandra Donnelly Buenos Aires
Kyle Carter Madison Park
Darren Chiacchia Better I Do It
Samantha Taylor Livewire
Penny Rowland Windswept
Mike Winter Kingpin

annikak
Jun. 3, 2007, 07:46 PM
this is one show where dressage did NOT win it, and that's cool! Someone moved from 36th to 9th, and from 47th to 13th in the ***, and in the **looks as if there is the same sort of thing. Bonnie (In advanced) went from 9th to 1st.

Pretty nice! :D
Any ideas what happened to Becky? And it appears that Jenna did not pass the jog.:cry:

KellyS
Jun. 3, 2007, 08:04 PM
Becky had a fall and was eliminated. :( She was jumping away from us, but from what I could see, it looked like they got a little close and Comet jumped her right out of the tack (but it happened so fast that was my impression, so someone who had a better view might know if it happened differently).

We saw the end of the Advanced show jumping and the whole 3 star division--a very difficult course that had an incredibly tight roll back early on. There were only 6 double clears out of 40+ horses in the 3 star. It was really tense at the end when Bonnie put down her double clear--there was no room for error for the next 3 riders. A great, edge of your seat finish. :)

Dorothy Crowell & Radio Flyer won Traveler's award. He's a 13-year-old OTTB who acted just like Traveler would have during the awards (had no time for standing still, thankyouverymuch ). She was joking around that maybe when he was 22 he would learn to stand. :lol:

Sadly, the other 2 oldies (Tumble Dry, 19; Pickle Road, 17) withdrew before stadium and Eight Saint James Place (16) passed away yesterday. :(

Clear Blue
Jun. 3, 2007, 08:33 PM
Becky did not have the smoothest ride in SJ. She kept asking for shorter strides in front of the jumps. Coming to this big oxer he was short,short,short, then crashed up into the jump on take-off - she went flying.

GotSpots
Jun. 3, 2007, 08:42 PM
Mixed feelings: while our rider had simply a terrific weekend and we are thrilled about how her horse jumped around, we were very sad to hear about Laine's horse. It was very hot and humid on Saturday, and I think that in hindsight, the three star horses should have gone first thing in the morning. Moreover, some wrinkles in the cooling out process: they did not permit the two star horses in under the covered arena, the water/ice was outside of the covered arena and, though I hate to criticize folks working hard in some serious mud/dirt/slop, the vet staff were not on top of all of the horses coming in. With horses icing down both after warmup before they went out on course (a modified ten minute box) and again after XC, we spent alot of time searching for someone to do TPR on our horse. With it being that hot, I would have liked to have seen vet techs assigned to a horse and keeping a very close eye on them - though obviously it's nice to be able to do substantial icing/scraping before the first temp is taken, and, in all fairness, perhaps they were for ones coming in particularly hot. That being said, Laine's horse collapsed just as he came off the course - and folks ran to him the second they saw him, so it would not have made a difference. Very tragic, very sad, and my heart breaks for her.

I was pleased to see that sanity had broken out and many of the Pan Am possible horses were excused from running XC. I confess that it put me off a bit to see a horse run XC who had run a major XC the week before and then flown across the country solely to get a "qualifying run for the Olympics," but there it is. Obviously I'm not party to that horse or his connections, but it struck me as in poor taste.

buschkn
Jun. 3, 2007, 08:43 PM
Pwynn, I believe what you are referring to is Atrial Fibrillation, which is also relatively common in people as they get older. The treatment they used in Canada in that article was shocking the heart with eliectricity to get it back into a regular rhythm. The other option is medication which at doses needed to treat horses cause a lot of side effects and toxicity. I don't think the condition is heat related, and usually wouldn't cause sudden death, though it isn't impossible I suppose. This is just from what I know about human medicine and what I remember from the article.

Again, very sorry for Laine, and congrats to those who finsihed well.

KellyS
Jun. 3, 2007, 08:49 PM
I confess that it put me off a bit to see a horse run XC who had run a major XC the week before and then flown across the country solely to get a "qualifying run for the Olympics," but there it is. Obviously I'm not party to that horse or his connections, but it struck me as in poor taste.

GotSpots--I felt exactly the same way. But I didn't know if it was just because I already had a bad taste in my mouth from what happened a few weeks ago.

CookiePony
Jun. 3, 2007, 09:11 PM
Darnit, I would have loved to see Pickle Road get the first Traveler Award. But Heather is a careful horsewoman and I'm sure she did what was best for Pickle. Congratulations to Radio Flyer!

gthom222
Jun. 3, 2007, 10:05 PM
I was pleased to see that sanity had broken out and many of the Pan Am possible horses were excused from running XC. I confess that it put me off a bit to see a horse run XC who had run a major XC the week before and then flown across the country solely to get a "qualifying run for the Olympics," but there it is. Obviously I'm not party to that horse or his connections, but it struck me as in poor taste.[/QUOTE]


GotSpots--I felt exactly the same way. But I didn't know if it was just because I already had a bad taste in my mouth from what happened a few weeks ago.

I'm guessing that would be Amy and Poggio who ran a major xcountry run just last weekend, flew cross country and was run again this weekend? It does seem like a lot of stress to put an older horse through in the space of a week . Was this due to Olympic qualification pressures with the passing of Le Samurai?
So sad about Eight Saint James Place, I know his people are devastated with the loss.

Classic Melody
Jun. 3, 2007, 10:17 PM
If indeed the previous posters are referring to Poggio, I would just like to say that I saw him go over the last two jumps before the finish (as I did with all the *** horses - I was a jump judge) and while he was certainly sweaty as any of the others, he was jumping the cleanest of any horse I saw, and did not appear to be overly labored in his breathing or general effort. I particularly noted that Amy added a stride before the second to last fence and Poggio snapped up his knees and put in an extra strong effort. By that point in the course, a lot of the other horses were raking their legs across the jumps. Poggio also garnered a fair amount of time penalties, so I'm guessing Amy was taking it relatively easy given the temperature.

pwynnnorman
Jun. 3, 2007, 11:04 PM
Poggio snapped up his knees and put in an extra strong effort.

Yeah, but that's just classic Poggio.

Jazzy Lady
Jun. 4, 2007, 12:00 AM
Anyone know what happened to Kelly List and Minstral or Karl and Rather Well?

WD on stadium means they didn't present the jog right? Does an x mean they didn't pass the jog?

poopoo
Jun. 4, 2007, 12:58 AM
Perhaps there should be a maximum heat index after which X-C has to be cancelled or revised in some way to protect the horses? Or perhaps some way to rehydrate them before they run phase D? Marathon runners always drink along the way.... we need to come up with some new ideas.

I'm guessing that would be Amy and Poggio who ran a major xcountry run just last weekend, flew cross country and was run again this weekend? It does seem like a lot of stress to put an older horse through in the space of a week . Was this due to Olympic qualification pressures with the passing of Le Samurai?


Sorry, can't resist commenting on this. Guess qualifying is still more important than preserving the horse to some .... even right after a major "incident" with another horse..... That is disappointing.

Janette
Jun. 4, 2007, 01:00 AM
Both horses will be fine - Rather Well (my horse) had a rocky couple of weeks leading up to Jersey (lost shoe on last gallop, hot splint and then a high nail to complete the problems). He was a trooper on XC but just wasn't sound enough this morning. He'll be fine in a couple of days though.

Kelly's horse didn't present at jog, but she'll be back soon to continue her advanced career!! She looked great on cross country.

canterlope
Jun. 4, 2007, 03:45 AM
I was pleased to see that sanity had broken out and many of the Pan Am possible horses were excused from running XC. I confess that it put me off a bit to see a horse run XC who had run a major XC the week before and then flown across the country solely to get a "qualifying run for the Olympics," but there it is. Obviously I'm not party to that horse or his connections, but it struck me as in poor taste.Equally concerning was seeing a couple of horses doing the CCI** and Advanced Horse Trials at Jersey Fresh when they had just run the CIC** at Virginia the weekend before.

denny
Jun. 4, 2007, 07:19 AM
Up until the mid 80s we always ran Rolex the end of May, and it was blazing hot. We moved it to late April for that exact reason, to get away from extreme conditions.
Maybe this should be done with Jersey Fresh if it`s to be used as a big selection outing. I can hear the objections already, but is it worth losing horses to heat related stress?

GotSpots
Jun. 4, 2007, 08:17 AM
C'lope - agreed. Although many of those horses - though not all - did not run XC at Jersey, I cannot help but think that it is all too much, too fast.

Poopoo - the horses were cooled down before XC: the majority of the three star horses that I saw did a gallop early in the morning as a pipe opener, then did their warm-up over a few jumps before XC, then did a modified Box before XC with icing and scraping before they went out on course.

And Denny - YES! My understanding was that Jersey Fresh was originally placed late on the calendar in order to account for Foxhall. With Foxhall gone, it'd be nice if Jersey could be moved up a bit to give the weather a better chance. Of course, the moment we did that, it would POUR that year.

NeverTime
Jun. 4, 2007, 09:04 AM
I was there this weekend competing in the ** and heard from several very reputable sources that they are talking about moving up Jersey Fresh by three weeks next year. That would probably help the temperature a ton.
I thought the event was very well-run (despite the crappy Web site!) and it was amazing to see so many truly classy horses out there.
KellyS, I was sitting at the riders meeting when I read the page about Traveler's trophy in the program -- I started tearing up all over again. What a wonderful, wonderful way to remember him:sadsmile:. I kept thinking of him, too, because along with Jenna's Tumble Dry in the ***, there was that adorable little 19-year-old Morgan horse in the ** (with one of those fabulous Morgan names, too, "Bridlewoods Beau Cheval" or something like that) that I was sure would win it. Out on XC, you could hear Brian O'Connor cheering them around: "look at this little Morgan, showing the TBs how it's done!" as he clocked around. Unfortunately, they did have a couple of stops and chose not to present Sunday.

Jazzy Lady
Jun. 4, 2007, 09:42 AM
Both horses will be fine - Rather Well (my horse) had a rocky couple of weeks leading up to Jersey (lost shoe on last gallop, hot splint and then a high nail to complete the problems). He was a trooper on XC but just wasn't sound enough this morning. He'll be fine in a couple of days though.

Kelly's horse didn't present at jog, but she'll be back soon to continue her advanced career!! She looked great on cross country.

Thanks, good to know! It'll be a bit before I hear from her, and I'm so impatient!!! ;)

clivers
Jun. 4, 2007, 11:23 AM
Pwynn, I believe what you are referring to is Atrial Fibrillation, which is also relatively common in people as they get older. The treatment they used in Canada in that article was shocking the heart with eliectricity to get it back into a regular rhythm. The other option is medication which at doses needed to treat horses cause a lot of side effects and toxicity. I don't think the condition is heat related, and usually wouldn't cause sudden death, though it isn't impossible I suppose. .

The most common cause of Atrial Fibrillation in horses is electrolyte abnormalities - which are often caused by heat and dehydration. It's not a rare occurrence in race horses and yes - can be treated by cardioversion (with the defibrillator - ie. the electricity cited above) or antiarrhythmic drugs - but when it's due to electrolyte disturbances you need to correct those first. Yes, it CAN and DOES cause sudden death.

RIP Jaime - such very sad news.

Copper
Jun. 4, 2007, 11:43 AM
I was wondering about Rather Well and Minstral also - didn't know what an X meant - bit scary!
Great ending for Waylon Roberts in the advanced!

poopoo
Jun. 4, 2007, 01:10 PM
Poopoo - the horses were cooled down before XC: the majority of the three star horses that I saw did a gallop early in the morning as a pipe opener, then did their warm-up over a few jumps before XC, then did a modified Box before XC with icing and scraping before they went out on course.


Wasn't this a CCI*** with A,B,C,& D or was it a CIC ***? I was really thinking about new ways to hydrate them and get electrolytes in them to prevent the electrolyte imbalanance/dehydration problems (like arrhythmia type problems) vs. cooling them out - I think everybody does a good job of getting the temps. down fast these days. Moving the calendar date back like they did for Rolex would help.

rp4241
Jun. 4, 2007, 01:24 PM
It was a short format CCI***. So no roads & tracks or steeplechase. The differences are length and technical difficulty.

poopoo
Jun. 4, 2007, 01:27 PM
Oh, O.K.. Disregard......

JAM
Jun. 4, 2007, 03:46 PM
Hate to sound like a broken record, but the report of several horses doing heavy duty competitions back to back weekends (and one horse traveling cross-country, so to speak, to do so) seems to be an unfortunate by-product of short format and, in any event, seems unnecessarily punishing to the horses. Did it always used to be this way?

On Poggio, it did seem like a lot to ask the horse to do two competitions a week apart, one on the west coast and one on the east coast. I am assuming (and, in some way, hoping) that that it was not the rider alone who made this decision, but that there were "orders" from above to do so; and it is true that the horse was not pressed to make the time. Still, this horse has nothing to prove (so why the need to do two selection trials or the like back to back weekends) and, under all the circumstances of the last two months, it seemed like very bad form to stick to this schedule, regardless of who made the decision or how the decision was arrived at.

Badger
Jun. 4, 2007, 04:06 PM
Laine Ashker blogs about Jamie's death at Jersey Fresh:

http://www.laineashker.blogspot.com/

scubed
Jun. 4, 2007, 04:21 PM
I heard that Jersey Fresh will be Mother's day weekend, approximately May
12th next year, so hopefully, it will be cooler. It sounds as if several revisions are being made in the calendar, and hopefully sanity, in the way of avoiding horses having to travel xc for mandatory outings or have mandatory outings too close to other major events, etc. will factor in, but I'm sure it is complicated.

HelenC
Jun. 4, 2007, 04:21 PM
Laine Ashker blogs about Jamie's death at Jersey Fresh:

http://www.laineashker.blogspot.com/

My God what a handsome horse...that is so sad :cry:

cllane1
Jun. 4, 2007, 04:29 PM
Laine Ashker blogs about Jamie's death at Jersey Fresh:

http://www.laineashker.blogspot.com/


This had me about to bawl at work...what a beautiful, moving tribute.:sadsmile:

CookiePony
Jun. 4, 2007, 06:02 PM
Oh, the blog is so sad. :cry: It sounds like they were really getting their partnership together when this happened. :(

PhoenixFarm
Jun. 4, 2007, 11:28 PM
Just a brief note about Poggio--he actually had a very light season this spring in order to save him. I believe, per a report I read in I think the chronicle he did one OI HT, one adv. HT, which he only ran dressage and xc, then Jersey.

Personally, I would have more concerns about a horse who ran a heavy spring schedule of HT's and CIC's, completed Rolex, ran and won (so ran for time) a CIC**, then ran the full schedule of the adv HT at jersey.

But that's just me. :rolleyes:

I do agree with the general sentiment however, that the shortformat "idea" that everyone can run all the time, is a serious issue.

RiverBendPol
Jun. 5, 2007, 08:43 AM
Laine Ashker blogs about Jamie's death at Jersey Fresh:

http://www.laineashker.blogspot.com/

Sobbbbbbbbbbing. What a good boy.

yventer
Jun. 5, 2007, 10:01 PM
I'm heartbroken on behalf of Lainey and Valerie Ashker - they are simply the nicest people, positive, upbeat and unfailingly helpful, and have been the high point of many events for me.

----------------

On another note, does anyone know what happened with Darren and Better I Do It in SJ in the Advanced?

Yvonne

Bid_Low
Jun. 5, 2007, 11:57 PM
there was that adorable little 19-year-old Morgan horse in the ** (with one of those fabulous Morgan names, too, "Bridlewoods Beau Cheval" or something like that) that I was sure would win it. Out on XC, you could hear Brian O'Connor cheering them around: "look at this little Morgan, showing the TBs how it's done!" as he clocked around. Unfortunately, they did have a couple of stops and chose not to present Sunday.

I had the wonderful opportunity to groom for Andrea Leatherman and her horse Mensa this weekend. What a great horse!

The rider of the Morgan noticed that Beau was a little sore on Saturday evening in the tendon area. She had a vet check him and ultrasound him and he was fine. I have to commend Leslie as she decided that she wasn't taking any chances by jumping so she withdrew. She felt like he wasn't quite right as she has had that guy since he was 6 years old. True horsemanship still lives!

Bid_Low
Jun. 6, 2007, 12:00 AM
there was that adorable little 19-year-old Morgan horse in the ** (with one of those fabulous Morgan names, too, "Bridlewoods Beau Cheval" or something like that) that I was sure would win it. Out on XC, you could hear Brian O'Connor cheering them around: "look at this little Morgan, showing the TBs how it's done!" as he clocked around. Unfortunately, they did have a couple of stops and chose not to present Sunday.

I had the wonderful opportunity to groom for Andrea Leatherman and her horse Mensa this weekend. What a great horse and rider pair!

The rider of the Morgan noticed that Beau was a little sore on Saturday evening in the tendon area. She had a vet check him and ultrasound him and he was fine. I have to commend Leslie as she decided that she wasn't taking any chances by jumping so she withdrew. She felt like he wasn't quite right as she has had that guy since he was 6 years old. True horsemanship still lives!