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tempichange
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:38 AM
Quote from article on Eurodressage today:


"I have the feeling that an important group of top riders don't have the top sport mentality which, in my opinion, is necessary for the preparation for the 2008 Olympic Games. This is reason enough for me to quit as chef d'equipe. The riders are too focused with peripheral things and too little with top sport. Meetings with the A and B-teams as well as individual discussions did not lead to improvement, nor commitment," Janssen explained.

STF
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:40 AM
I dont blame him!
Who would want to be in the "hornet nest" like that. Im sure he will be much happier doing his own thing and working his own horses.
At least he stood up for what he felt and did what he wanted and not what others wanted him to do.

sm
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:51 AM
Sjef: "I have the feeling that an important group of top riders don't have the top sport mentality..."

To what is he referring to, "top sport mentality" and then goes on to say "The riders are too focused with peripheral things and too little with top sport"?

I don't know STF, that's a lot of spin from Sjef. What is lacking in the riders' committment that supposedly bothers him?

And is Anky headed for 2008 Olympics?

mr_miamis_mom
Apr. 12, 2007, 11:56 AM
Dare I say it???

Perhaps his idea of a lack of commitment is an anti rollkur approach?

Silly
Apr. 12, 2007, 01:20 PM
Quick, I sense a trainwreck coming. Good grief.

dutchmike
Apr. 12, 2007, 01:55 PM
It is his life and if he feels he needs to quit than so be it. I'm sure he has his reasons. Why not respect his decision without the backstabbing;)

Eclectic Horseman
Apr. 12, 2007, 02:01 PM
With his wife and her student as part of a team, I can see where actual or real conflicts of interest might be problematic. Best not to take on a role like that when you have a private interest that may conflict.

purplnurpl
Apr. 12, 2007, 02:15 PM
lol...what did he say in the video I have?
"It's easier to train a horse than a woman, especially if it's YOUR woman."
cracks me up.

but from what the OP quoted...it pretty much sounds like he doesn't care for what he has to work with...maybe some of the riders are just not up for putting 150% of their lives into the sport. which is what is needed to be successful at that level. we all know that.

Calhoun
Apr. 12, 2007, 02:26 PM
The article stated he is a focused and passionate person which could mean he is the same with his training methods. Maybe some of the "top riders" disagree and prefer to work on their own. This would be a hard pill to swallow as Senior Team Chef d'equipe. Too bad a win-win situation could not be worked out. Having the Chef d-equipe leave a year before the Olympics could create bad moral.

Anya
Apr. 12, 2007, 02:31 PM
It's very hard to teach a woman, especially if it's YOUR woman. :D This is the best thing Sjef has ever said! LOL.
IMHO if he has decided so then thats the right thing for him to do. If he feels he can't work when the riders are not dedicated enough than it's better than doing the job improperly.

sm
Apr. 12, 2007, 03:51 PM
"It is his life and if he feels he needs to quit than so be it. I'm sure he has his reasons. Why not respect his decision without the backstabbing"

It's just odd he attacks riders as not committed enough, isn't that an insult to riders who work immensely hard to represent their country? Why not something that doesn't backstab his country's international riders, like we have a different vision...

COTH article's not much more informative, the same Janssen spin:

ARTICLE IN CURRENT COTH WEBSITE: Friday 6, April 2007: "Dutch Dressage Chef d’Equipe Sjef Janssen Resigns

"Dutch Equestrian Federation officials announced on April 12 that Sjef Janssen has decided not to continue in the role of chef d’equipe to the Dutch dressage team. He took over the position in 2005 after coaching Anky van Grunsven to individual gold at the 2004 Athens Olympics.

"Janssen said that he resigned because a group of top Dutch riders wasn’t fully committed to pursuing professional preparation for the 2008 Beijing Olympics. “I have the feeling that an important group of top riders don’t have the top sport mentality. The riders are too focused on peripheral things and too little with top sport,” read his translated statement on www.eurodressage.com.

"He will continue to train van Grunsven, who is his wife, as well as a group of riders who will work with him privately. "


* * *

Coreene
Apr. 12, 2007, 03:54 PM
which could mean he is the same with his training methodsWhich is an assumption, of course, and reading way, way into it.

sm
Apr. 12, 2007, 04:02 PM
" lol...what did he say in the video I have?
"It's very hard to teach a woman, especially if it's YOUR woman."
cracks me up. "

* * *

Probably even harder to train a woman horse. Were any of his stars mares? Somehow I don't see him producing a Blue Hors Matine...

Dalfan
Apr. 12, 2007, 04:02 PM
Perhaps his idea of a lack of commitment is an anti rollkur approach?

Yes. Maybe these riders aren't willing to sacrifice their horses mental health and well-being. Pure speculation on my part though. A good thing, IMHO.

dutchmike
Apr. 12, 2007, 04:26 PM
Or maybe just maybe he got an offer to be chef d'equipe of the USD team and he opted for the mega bucks. Now that would be a shock to the system for some:D

Dalfan
Apr. 12, 2007, 04:36 PM
Or maybe just maybe he got an offer to be chef d'equipe of the USD team and he opted for the mega bucks. Now that would be a shock to the system for some

Please, don't even think such things.

Xhltsalute
Apr. 12, 2007, 04:44 PM
Perhaps his idea of a lack of commitment is an anti rollkur approach?

That was my thought also.

fargo
Apr. 12, 2007, 05:49 PM
Anky and Sjef treat horse riding as a top sport. Sjef expects the riders to be topfit and their horses to be top fit as well. Anky does a lot of fitness ea things to keep up her own fitness every day of the week during her active competition. Not a lot of riders do as much as that. If the rider and horse are top fit like Anky and Sjef target they have energy left in the rider and in the horse; for example Australia/Sydney on the third day of heavy competition. They know it is a long and hard battle in hot temperatures so they prepare themselves and their horses to have energy left even after those heavy hot days. Other dutch horses were just lost on the last days in Australia, Ferro was too exhausted to do his piaff like he normally would do and so were others etc. Bonfire still kept up as if he wasn't in very hot weather on his third competition day. They know what it takes and they prepare. They are willing to do what it takes.
Other riders don't keep up those responsibilities and fitness and also give a lot of time to training others instead of training themselves and their horses. If you are as fanatic and willing to do what it takes as Sjef than you don't want to deal with anything or anyone doing less. I think Sjef just doesn't see that commitment and so he quits because he wants to aim high and not mediocre.

Velvet
Apr. 12, 2007, 05:55 PM
I only hope that the riders on the team he is commenting on are allowed to have their point of view stated in a major publication. We need to hear from both sides. But I do think it's very bad form to blame the riders on the team instead of just gracefully bowing out and stating he had some disagreements and wanted to leave his position.

I'm tired of people blaming everyone else and not realizing that when they point a finger there are three more pointed back at them. It's especially sad at this level, when we all know that to make it to their team is next to impossible and so those riders really must be already working their butts off. (When was Sjef riding on the team?)

Dalfan
Apr. 12, 2007, 05:58 PM
Other riders don't keep up those responsibilities and fitness and also give a lot of time to training others instead of training themselves and their horses.

I assume you are speculating like the rest of us, unless you KNOW for a fact what you are saying is true.

They (S&A) are no different than any of the other top riders in the world. I am speculating here. Or were you just talking about the Dutch riders?

Rusty Stirrup
Apr. 12, 2007, 06:37 PM
I agree that he could have bowed out more gracefully. He could have just said he had personal reasons and could not commit whole heartedly to filling the position. But then again, maybe he's right?

Sebastian
Apr. 12, 2007, 07:07 PM
I agree with Velvet. I'm SURE there are two distinct sides to this story. Would love to hear both... :yes: Hope we're given the opportunity.

Seb :)

pattir7
Apr. 12, 2007, 09:07 PM
Why so much speculation for what I'm sure was a fairly personal decision for him? Whatever the reason(s), he is entitled to them...and also entitled to keep them to himself.... JMHO...

Rusty Stirrup
Apr. 12, 2007, 09:18 PM
That's just it. He didn't keep it to himself. He blamed the riders.

Touchstone Farm
Apr. 12, 2007, 09:49 PM
I only hope that the riders on the team he is commenting on are allowed to have their point of view stated in a major publication. We need to hear from both sides. But I do think it's very bad form to blame the riders on the team instead of just gracefully bowing out and stating he had some disagreements and wanted to leave his position.

I'm tired of people blaming everyone else and not realizing that when they point a finger there are three more pointed back at them. It's especially sad at this level, when we all know that to make it to their team is next to impossible and so those riders really must be already working their butts off. (When was Sjef riding on the team?)

Velvet, I totally agree. He should have bowed out gracefully without placing "blame." Personally I find it hard to believe that riders at that level wouldn't be giving 150% if they had a chance to represent their country. But...maybe I'm clueless...I know if I had a horse and the talent to possibly represent the U.S., I'd do whatever possible (except sacrifice the horse) to do what I needed to do.

I don't know...sounds like an "excuse" to me... But even if it's not, why not take the high road and just retire from the position with some "I enjoyed the position/hope I contributed/wish the team well" blah-blah and let it go at that?!!

dutchmike
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:05 PM
It is different in Holland. In the US a olympic competitor comes back and has it made, in holland riding for your country does not give you a financial advantage. We have many medal winners that hardly get by and have a side job to survive. So in short anyone that practices any sport in Holland gets the glory if they win but that is it.

nero
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:08 PM
Sjef just can't win with some people. I hazard a guess that if he had just given some standard, benign reason as to why he was quitting people would still be criticising him for not being honest or something.

Bit like his training method, when he wasn't talking about it much people said he was hiding his training or too embarrassed by it or unable to justify it, when he went really public with his training methods at clinics and in the media he still got slaughtered by the same people previously criticising him for being 'covert'. You might not agree with his reasons for resigning or think its unfair to blame others, but maybe, just maybe, that is the REAL reason he quit and he is being honest. I think that should be encouraged, sport is too often afflicted with people making generic statements that are 'good' PR which in the end mean nothing. Good for him for keeping it a bit more real.

I'm sure the riders in question will be provided a forum to respond should they feel the need to.

Velvet
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:13 PM
It is different in Holland. In the US a olympic competitor comes back and has it made, in holland riding for your country does not give you a financial advantage. We have many medal winners that hardly get by and have a side job to survive. So in short anyone that practices any sport in Holland gets the glory if they win but that is it.


I find it hard to believe that they are suffering after being on a successful team (which the Dutch team has been for a long time). Even if the people in their own country didn't want them there are plenty of other countries that are willing to pay them for their time and expertise--and they often just offer their time in the form of clinics and do quite well. If they moved here and hung out a shingle (like a lot of German riders who never made a team do) they would also probably be very prosperous in our country. :yes:

dutchmike
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:20 PM
I find it hard to believe that they are suffering after being on a successful team (which the Dutch team has been for a long time). Even if the people in their own country didn't want them there are plenty of other countries that are willing to pay them for their time and expertise--and they often just offer their time in the form of clinics and do quite well. If they moved here and hung out a shingle (like a lot of German riders who never made a team do) they would also probably be very prosperous in our country. Maybe no one has made them aware of the fact that while we no longer mine for gold, having an accent and riding dressage is often a gold mine of sorts for people like them--especially with credentials that show they've been on the Dutch team. :yes:


Not every dutch person likes to leave holland, actually only a small percentage cope with home sickness, missing family and friends etc. Don't ask me why as I miss very little about Holland but it is true. This does not only count for equestrian but also our swimmers, skaters ,you name it. To train for the Olympics as a team member it just is very hard financially in Holland there is little or no support so ,you either have to be rich, have a multinational to sponsor you or just about starf to death.

Velvet
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:30 PM
I understand that people don't want to leave, I'm just saying that if they are not making much money in dressage in their country they do have the option. And they don't have to leave permanently. They can travel and clinic and do quite well. That was my point.

It's just as difficult in this country to make the team. You have to get sponsors if you don't make enough money on your own, and even then that's very difficult for most people. I think it's pretty even with our system in that respect.

DanniS
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:42 PM
In an ideal world he should have just left gracefully, I agree, but...
do you really think he would have been allowed to without an explanation as to why?:no:

With the high profile position he held in one of the best dressage teams in the world publications would have been hounding him or answers and if not given any they would have been left to speculate as to his reasons.
Much the same as what is happening here with the unnecessary Rollkur inuendo.

I remember not too long ago when a US trainer and his wife parted from their employer to go out on their own and the inuendo's that were flying around about their reasons to do so were hillarious.

IMO he should be allowed to do whatever he feels he needs to, irrespective of his reasons and unless someone actually contacts Sjef and asks him outright all else is pure speculation.

dutchmike
Apr. 12, 2007, 10:42 PM
I understand that people don't want to leave, I'm just saying that if they are not making much money in dressage in their country they do have the option. And they don't have to leave permanently. They can travel and clinic and do quite well. That was my point.

It's just as difficult in this country to make the team. You have to get sponsors if you don't make enough money on your own, and even then that's very difficult for most people. I think it's pretty even with our system in that respect.

It is much harder to make a living with horses in Holland then in the US believe me with all the little rules ,taxes etc we even pay manure tax( don't get me started on dutch politics please ,I'll explode). I should know ;)

J-Lu
Apr. 13, 2007, 12:35 AM
[QUOTE=sm;2359368]Sjef: "I have the feeling that an important group of top riders don't have the top sport mentality..."
QUOTE]

I agree that this is a form of spin, which is not uncommon, from what I've seen, from this camp. (Before you flame, please go back and read interviews quoting the pair as to why they didn't win the 1996 and 2000 Olympics...the vet's fault, the farrier's fault, the judges' fault, the venue's fault...she's a great rider who doesn't lose gracefully)

Who is the top Dutch rider right now? Imke Bartles. Daughter of Joep (man who put freestyle into top competition and runs/used to run the World Cup and International Trainers Forum) and Tineke (sp? Woman who rode on most Dutch international/Olympic teams before Anky) Bartles. Imke trains with her parents. THEY don't have the sport mentality? Edward Gal, Anky's student, who did so well last time on Lingh? Marlies von Baalen, daughter of Olympic/world cup rider and former rider of Idocus before he came back to Courtney King? SHE doesn't have the sport mentality? I have trouble believing that his comments aren't personal.

At this point, Sjef should have figured out how to speak as the dressage representative of the Netherlands. He should also have figured out that as the "chef" of his country, it's not "all about him".

J.

J-Lu
Apr. 13, 2007, 12:44 AM
[QUOTE=DanniS;2361214]

I remember not too long ago when a US trainer and his wife parted from their employer to go out on their own and the inuendo's that were flying around about their reasons to do so were hillarious.
QUOTE]

And yet when asked directly (and I asked directly), they never said anything but pleasant things about the woman and staff they formerly worked for/with and acknlowleged her role in their success. Obviously, there are reasons why they left. But you'd never hear an official quote like Sjef's coming out of either said trainer or his wife's mouth.
J.

nero
Apr. 13, 2007, 02:39 AM
I agree that this is a form of spin, which is not uncommon, from what I've seen, from this camp. (Before you flame, please go back and read interviews quoting the pair as to why they didn't win the 1996 and 2000 Olympics...the vet's fault, the farrier's fault, the judges' fault, the venue's fault...she's a great rider who doesn't lose gracefully)


J.

Are you talking about Anky?? She did win in 2000 at the Olympics? And she actually does lose gracefully, not that it happens often, but she seemed truly happy when Isabel won the GP Special in Aachen, saying it was good for the sport yadda, yadda. But maybe you aren't talking about Anky.

DanniS
Apr. 13, 2007, 03:10 AM
[QUOTE=DanniS;2361214]

I remember not too long ago when a US trainer and his wife parted from their employer to go out on their own and the inuendo's that were flying around about their reasons to do so were hillarious.
QUOTE]

And yet when asked directly (and I asked directly), they never said anything but pleasant things about the woman and staff they formerly worked for/with and acknlowleged her role in their success. Obviously, there are reasons why they left. But you'd never hear an official quote like Sjef's coming out of either said trainer or his wife's mouth.
J.

The point I was trying to make with my post is that he is darned if he does and darned if he doesn't.
I was not trying to drag the Hassler thing up again, I don't know them and I wish them good luck in whatever they do.
These scenarios tend to bring out the arm-chair detective in people and I really think that it is noone else's business.
I think we need to have a look at what we post in response to some threads on COTH as alot of the time it is bordering on a personal attack.

Having the profile that Sjef does there was no way he was going to get out of it without a statement.
Yes Sjef could/should have chosen his words wisely but he has never been one to pull a punch in the past and I doubt whether he'll change his ways now.

The posters who bought up the Rollkur issue are the same one's who get on their soap boxes about it in numerous other threads. Rollkur is/was not the topic here and I think if the topic is adhered to it will be "safer" for all who post.:) ;)

Sabine
Apr. 13, 2007, 03:16 AM
I think...he's another drama queen, mind you highly intelligent with a keen sense for business and his own advantage.

Serving the team is inherently not compatible with his independent, entrepreneurial ways and the constant exposure paired with his training style might not have been digestible to all.

I only heard that after everyone trained with SJ for a good while- later last year- everyone returned to their usual trainers and Sjef was only consulted marginally..(Laurens went back to his dad, Imke went back to her family etc...Edward went back to Peter and Anne)
I think it was something that Theo mentioned...for those who remember Theo...:(

DanniS
Apr. 13, 2007, 03:32 AM
Sabine, what has happened to Theo?
He's OK, isn't he?

fargo
Apr. 13, 2007, 03:51 AM
It's nice that you just assume that I am speculating. One of the reasons I posted to stop all these speculations but ... alas.
Sjef and Anky and other riders trained by them have stated in several magazines and other media in the past that to be an athlete is to be top fit. And they also stated that that is to be expected of both rider AND horse. And they practice what they preach. Not to be fit as a rider wouldn't be fair to the horse and stupid to even try to be the best.
This was already stated in the time of the Sydney games when the dutch riders were together in training camp Sjef stated that most horses and riders were not in top condition and so not up to (their) standards.
So this really is one of the items they live by. It is not to say that this is the only point he would be disappointed in but I know they think fitness and in general to go for the highest possible is very important to Sjef and that's why I included it here.

And in the statements given recently Sjef stated that he talked about his points of critic about not being dedicated/motivated enough in several sessions and in one on ones and that they didn't give the proper results in attitude and motivation /dedication that he wished for and that's why he quits.

slc2
Apr. 13, 2007, 07:37 AM
I think I LOVE hearing people who know NOTHING about the situation pontificate on why he quit! :yes: :yes: :yes:

Come on guys, NONE of you are so plugged into the world of international dressage that you have any right to make pronouncements about why this happened. Even if you overhear a scrap or two or read The World According to Dutch Journalist, LOL.

I think it's a good thing, it will give someone else a chance to develop in this role and learn this job.

kkj
Apr. 13, 2007, 07:52 AM
I don't know about all this. I would have to hear directly from the riders he is speaking about before forming an opinion here.

I do think he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. This is partly because he is the husband of Anky. It is partly because of all the Rolkur stuff. But for me, it has nothing to do with the first two and really is just because of things like the lawsuit against him (which he lost) where he was accused of taking some American on the sale of a Grand Prix horse. Lying about commissions, the sale price etc. That is where I lost credibility for the guy. I know those kind of dealings are not so uncommon in the horseworld, but it does not make it sit with me any better.

So I don't know if he is in the right or wrong in this particular case, but I know I don't particularily like the guy. He may very well be telling the truth here, but I would not trust him or his motives nonetheless.

Dalfan
Apr. 13, 2007, 08:02 AM
It's nice that you just assume that I am speculating. One of the reasons I posted to stop all these speculations but ... alas.
Sjef and Anky and other riders trained by them have stated in several magazines and other media in the past that to be an athlete is to be top fit. And they also stated that that is to be expected of both rider AND horse. And they practice what they preach. Not to be fit as a rider wouldn't be fair to the horse and stupid to even try to be the best.
This was already stated in the time of the Sydney games when the dutch riders were together in training camp Sjef stated that most horses and riders were not in top condition and so not up to (their) standards.
So this really is one of the items they live by. It is not to say that this is the only point he would be disappointed in but I know they think fitness and in general to go for the highest possible is very important to Sjef and that's why I included it here.

And in the statements given recently Sjef stated that he talked about his points of critic about not being dedicated/motivated enough in several sessions and in one on ones and that they didn't give the proper results in attitude and motivation /dedication that he wished for and that's why he quits.

So you are saying that Bartels, Balaans, Gaal and their horses are not fit enough? Just because Sjef says so? Sorry, just don't believe that AT ALL. I really think it has more to do with his "methods", but that is speculation as well.

Eventer13
Apr. 13, 2007, 09:52 AM
What I dont get is why you would agree to be the chef if your wife (and her student) were on the team. Isnt there conflict of interest? And even if theres not, seems like your just asking for trouble.

Coreene
Apr. 13, 2007, 01:01 PM
[quote=sm;2359368]Sjef: "I have the feeling that an important group of top riders don't have the top sport mentality..."
QUOTE]

I agree that this is a form of spin, which is not uncommon, from what I've seen, from this camp. (Before you flame, please go back and read interviews quoting the pair as to why they didn't win the 1996 and 2000 Olympics...the vet's fault, the farrier's fault, the judges' fault, the venue's fault...she's a great rider who doesn't lose gracefully)

Who is the top Dutch rider right now? Imke Bartles. Daughter of Joep (man who put freestyle into top competition and runs/used to run the World Cup and International Trainers Forum) and Tineke (sp? Woman who rode on most Dutch international/Olympic teams before Anky) Bartles. Imke trains with her parents. THEY don't have the sport mentality? Edward Gal, Anky's student, who did so well last time on Lingh? Marlies von Baalen, daughter of Olympic/world cup rider and former rider of Idocus before he came back to Courtney King? SHE doesn't have the sport mentality? I have trouble believing that his comments aren't personal.

At this point, Sjef should have figured out how to speak as the dressage representative of the Netherlands. He should also have figured out that as the "chef" of his country, it's not "all about him".

J.Um, Imke's dad is Sjef's best friend. And you need to look at the entire Top and Subtop groups in the Netherlands to understand his big picture.

Coreene
Apr. 13, 2007, 01:04 PM
It's nice that you just assume that I am speculating. One of the reasons I posted to stop all these speculations but ... alas.
Sjef and Anky and other riders trained by them have stated in several magazines and other media in the past that to be an athlete is to be top fit. And they also stated that that is to be expected of both rider AND horse. And they practice what they preach. Not to be fit as a rider wouldn't be fair to the horse and stupid to even try to be the best.
This was already stated in the time of the Sydney games when the dutch riders were together in training camp Sjef stated that most horses and riders were not in top condition and so not up to (their) standards.
So this really is one of the items they live by. It is not to say that this is the only point he would be disappointed in but I know they think fitness and in general to go for the highest possible is very important to Sjef and that's why I included it here.

And in the statements given recently Sjef stated that he talked about his points of critic about not being dedicated/motivated enough in several sessions and in one on ones and that they didn't give the proper results in attitude and motivation /dedication that he wished for and that's why he quits.Fargo is totally right, and he has been very vocal since the beginning re the dedication required by the rider as well. Sjef has never, ever kept his feelings a secret re what he expected his riders to put in, whether they used his own training methods or rode with someone else. It's not his way or the highway re the training of the horses.

egontoast
Apr. 13, 2007, 01:23 PM
I only hope that the riders on the team he is commenting on are allowed to have their point of view stated in a major publication.

Oh good grief! What stops them from expressing their views, especially on that anti ANky rag?

The man has a big ego. So what? It doesn't really affect any of us, does it? Oh right, it does give fuel to a certain contingent.

People who speak their mind without reservation are not usually popular.

Although I have never been a big fan of Himself, I credit him at least for saying what he thinks no matter what. He is what he is. It does not affect anyone on this board, does it"?

Touchstone Farm
Apr. 13, 2007, 05:40 PM
DaniS wrot "e:In an ideal world he should have just left gracefully, I agree, but...
do you really think he would have been allowed to without an explanation as to why?"

I don't think being "allowed" has anything to do with it. He wasn't coerced into making his statement. And yes, I think he could have come up with an explanation that didn't damn others. It's called being a good sport, it's called maintaining composure and professionalism in a situation. He decided to quit, so it wasn't like he was caught by surprise by "Sixty Minutes" in his barn and fumbled for words. He knew he was going to quit so he could have prepared a statement that not only put himself in a positive light, but wished the team well too. But I don't think that's Sjef's "style."

Eireamon
Apr. 13, 2007, 07:03 PM
I am not going to offer or speculate anything on Sjefis decision as I really have no opinion on it.

But I will make a comment re DutchMikes comments re not the glory etc attached to being in a Dutch Team.

I donot know what it is like in Holland but can only make comparisons between NZ and Holland being small countries with no little big business support.
There is just not the population base thus not the big business like you have in the US. American has tremendous wealth compared to a small country and that has immense spin offs.
I worked for a couple of US Multinationals here in NZ for most of my working life and was constantly amazing at how blinkered the Americans are to what they often consider normal in terms of wealth.

In NZ our Olympic athletes are not stars either and struggle to make a living.
We don't have big business to support or sponsor athletes. Its pretty unheard of. Most athletes are on the bones of their backside. Winning even a gold medal does not ensure you a livleyhood. It never comes easy and even Mark Todd/Blyth Taits success never made them wealthy. Mark lived overseas for most of his career and fortunately got overseas sponsorship. He would never have been able to survive had he stayed in NZ.

Most often when NZ riders compete at the Olympics their mounts have to be sold as they cannot afford to bring them home.

Its getting harder and harder in NZ to be really competitive in Equestrian sports unless you have money and quite honestly there are very very few that can fund an Olympic buildup campaign let alone be able to actually compete. ]
Our past Olympic heros and gold medallists mostly just disappear into the background working hard to make a living.

Both Mark Todd and Blyth Tait now train racehorses. They can not even make a living out of training riders or event horses without something like the racehorses behind them. What a waste of talent many would say but they have to pay the bills like all of us.

happydressage
Apr. 13, 2007, 07:23 PM
You have to be an insider to understand the motives of Sjef Janssen.

I don't blame the posters on this forum to base their opinions on the official press release, but did it come to your minds that this press release is published only to cover up the real problems.

siegi b.
Apr. 13, 2007, 08:44 PM
... and I'm sure that you, happydressage, are the only one aware of the REAL problems... :-)

Do you write Harlequin novels in your spare time?

Eventer13
Apr. 13, 2007, 09:31 PM
Most often when NZ riders compete at the Olympics their mounts have to be sold as they cannot afford to bring them home.


That's really sad... imagine getting all the way to the Olympics, only to loose your partner :(

DanniS
Apr. 13, 2007, 10:00 PM
DaniS wrot "e:In an ideal world he should have just left gracefully, I agree, but...
do you really think he would have been allowed to without an explanation as to why?"

I don't think being "allowed" has anything to do with it. He wasn't coerced into making his statement. And yes, I think he could have come up with an explanation that didn't damn others. It's called being a good sport, it's called maintaining composure and professionalism in a situation. He decided to quit, so it wasn't like he was caught by surprise by "Sixty Minutes" in his barn and fumbled for words. He knew he was going to quit so he could have prepared a statement that not only put himself in a positive light, but wished the team well too. But I don't think that's Sjef's "style."

Exactly, it's not his style.;)
He has never hidden that fact and if people don't like him for it I don't think he'll lose any sleep over it.

This is on Edward Gal's site.
http://www.edwardgal.nl/?p=11&id=158&l=EN
He didn't seem to have an issue with putting it there and he IS a rider affected.

dq140
Apr. 13, 2007, 10:32 PM
Maybe if the U.S. hired Sjef as chef, we'd chance better than a bronze in 2008!

Eireamon
Apr. 13, 2007, 10:46 PM
Eventer13 yep sadly a real fact of life for many NZ horses. The very elite like Our Gold Medal Dream teams were mostly able to bring back thier mounts with the help of sponsors but since many of the other horses were sold or left behind.

Glengarrick who was a great Olympic and WEG campaigner for NZ was left in the UK after the last world games as his rider could not afford bring him home.
He had been just the most amazing horse for his owner and she was heartbroken that the money could not be found to bring him home to retire.
He was the oldest horse at the 2004 Athens Olympics at 20 finishing in 7th place overall and then he went on to compete at the WEG in 2006 also finishing 7th. Not bad for a 22 year old ex racehorse.

Fortunately last year and unknown overseas benefactor sent him home to a delighted Heelan.

Mostly our NZ riders have to be based away from NZ to compete and be able to hold onto their horses. Many are in the UK or Europe and have to be independantly wealthy or have good overseas sponsors to keep going.

One of our best young Showjumping riders actually changed her nationality so that she had a chance to ride at the Olympics (for Bulgaria) Sad but a fact of life for us here in NZ. We are very poor cousins compared to the money of America.

None of our Dream Team who were so invincible at the Olympic 3 day events for so many years can even earn a living from helping our new riders come through. They have to do other things to pay the bills.

Elatu
Apr. 14, 2007, 12:51 AM
Opinion on Sjef according to Cartman from South Park:
"It's my ball, it's my bat, and I'm going home. Screw you guys".

PiaffeDreams
Apr. 14, 2007, 02:59 AM
Opinion on Sjef according to Cartman from South Park:
"It's my ball, it's my bat, and I'm going home. Screw you guys".

A South Park take on the entire proceedings :winkgrin:

Cartman: Alright. Look. I didn't want to have to say this, but I think maybe we're not seeing heaven because one of us doesn't believe in it enough.
Kyle: Huh?
Cartman: Heaven could be like the pixie fairies of Bubblegum Forest. You only see them if you really believe in them.

Stan: I don't want to shoot the bunny.
Uncle Jimbo: No nephew of mine is going to be a tree hugger.
Cartman: Yeah, hippie. Go back to Woodstock if you don't want to shoot anything.

Cartman: Oh, this is a democratic boy band, is it?

Stan: No, I Iearned something today, and it's that this is our home team, and if you don't want to root for the home team then get the hell out of the stadium.

Cartman: I've learned something, too: selling out is sweet because when you sell out, you get to make a lot of money, and when you have money, you don't have to hang out with a bunch of poor a$$es like you guys. Screw you guys, I'm going home.

Phillip: Look at their silly American heads.
Terrance: They look like groundhogs.

Rob Reiner: Sometimes lying is okay, like when you know what's good for people more than they do.

Cartman: Respect My Authority!

Tolerance Camp Leader: Around here, intolerance will not be tolerated.

Cartman: Sticks and stones may break my bones but I'm Jesus.

Choir Teacher: Well, that about does it. If you have any questions, I'll leave information packets up front.
Cartman: Oh that's good, we need some more toilet paper.

egontoast
Apr. 14, 2007, 05:54 AM
:lol: :yes: :lol: :yes: :lol: :yes: :lol: :yes: :lol:

claire
Apr. 14, 2007, 07:50 AM
... and I'm sure that you, happydressage, are the only one aware of the REAL problems... :-)

Do you write Harlequin novels in your spare time?

Well seigi, perhaps hd IS the only one aware?! :lol:

That said, SJ was never really noted for his PR/marketing skills...:winkgrin:

KathyMagee
Apr. 14, 2007, 08:33 AM
The press conference Sjef gave was broadcasted on national Dutch television.

His major point was that he couldn't work with people who are satisfied with
75%, because his job was to take these riders to 80% and the worldtop.

The underlying story however is that Imke (mother Tineke), Edward (partner Hans Peter Minderhoud), Laurens (father Leunes), Marlies (mother Coby and Jo Hinnemann) didn't feel good with Sjef's system. And it is no secret that the riders mentioned performed better when they quit training with Sjef.

The truth is not told during a press conference but at the bar after the press conference. :yes: :cool:

sm
Apr. 14, 2007, 09:51 AM
"The underlying story however is that Imke (mother Tineke), Edward (partner Hans Peter Minderhoud), Laurens (father Leunes), Marlies (mother Coby and Jo Hinnemann) didn't feel good with Sjef's system. And it is no secret that the riders mentioned performed better when they quit training with Sjef."

Finally. Something other than that ridiculous spin that no one trains/tries hard enough for the Olympics, which is a statement that:

- insults/attacks the top and sub-top Dutch riders
- concerns the sponsors that fund these riders
- concerns the RaboTalentPlan fundraising efforts that promotes new Dutch riders
- oh yes, insults the horse world that they are probably stupid enough to believe no one knows how to train hard enough. Duh, being 200% fit for competition is BASIC no matter what your discipline.

Thank you KathyMagee and happydressage. Although why Janssen felt he needed to position himself publicly this way for his leaving, which as far as I'm concerned could have been left unsaid. Most people are like, "thank you for the experience, it was a privilege, etc, etc," no matter what inner political turmoil is going on.

carolprudm
Apr. 14, 2007, 10:06 AM
". Although why Janssen felt he needed to position himself publicly this way for his leaving, which as far as I'm concerned could have been left unsaid. Most people are like, "thank you for the experience, it was a privilege, etc, etc," no matter what inner political turmoil is going on.
As my momma used to say "When in doubt, shut your mouth"

slc2
Apr. 14, 2007, 10:18 AM
i don't recall anyone keeping that job for long. it's not that kind of job. i don't think there even has to be a difference of opinion over training over something as obvious as rollkur, it can be something far more subtle as well, it's just the nature of the beast.

the bottom line is that no one here is intimately connected enough to say why it happened. the other people train quite a bit like how sjeff trains, anyway. it's pretty hard to see anyone in holland or germany these days not riding their horse very deep...it would be a matter of degree, rather than to Rollkur or Not To Rollkur, if it WAS a difference of opinion over that - it could have seen something entirely different, as simple as which shows to go to to prep the horses.

And such things happen in every country - sometimes it's just a i'ma sicka you face type thing.

snoopy
Apr. 14, 2007, 10:23 AM
[QUOTE=slc2;2364217]
the bottom line is that no one here is intimately connected enough to say why it happened.



You never know.....:lol:

KathyMagee
Apr. 14, 2007, 10:50 AM
"The underlying story however is that Imke (mother Tineke), Edward (partner Hans Peter Minderhoud), Laurens (father Leunes), Marlies (mother Coby and Jo Hinnemann) didn't feel good with Sjef's system. And it is no secret that the riders mentioned performed better when they quit training with Sjef."

Finally. Something other than that ridiculous spin that no one trains/tries hard enough for the Olympics, which is a statement that:

- insults/attacks the top and sub-top Dutch riders
- concerns the sponsors that fund these riders
- concerns the RaboTalentPlan fundraising efforts that promotes new Dutch riders
- oh yes, insults the horse world that they are probably stupid enough to believe no one knows how to train hard enough. Duh, being 200% fit for competition is BASIC no matter what your discipline.

Thank you KathyMagee and happydressage. Although why Janssen felt he needed to position himself publicly this way for his leaving, which as far as I'm concerned could have been left unsaid. Most people are like, "thank you for the experience, it was a privilege, etc, etc," no matter what inner political turmoil is going on.

You can push people like musicmakers and choreographers to go over their limits, even riders have to work on their physical and mental health, but pushing horses over their limits is impossible. The riders mentioned above all have their "once in a liftetime horse", like Arjen Teeuwissen had with Goliath. Horses like Goliath, Sunrise, Ollright, Gribaldi, Idocus, Kigali and Relevant did and are doing the best they can and could, but pushing them over the limits creates an unhappy horse. Some horses are not made for +80%.

Eventer13
Apr. 15, 2007, 09:28 AM
Cartman: Respect My Authority!


Southpark: one of the greatest shows ever.

Although Cartman should be saying "Respek ma authoritah." I actually got my mom a T-shirt with that on it. But I dont think she ever wears it out of the house ;)

Velvet
Apr. 15, 2007, 02:01 PM
I still have one question, when was the last time Sjef rode on the team and knows FIRST HAND what it really takes to be a member of the team? Anky is a naturally gifted/talented rider, but what about Sjef? It's impossible for me to believe him when he hasn't walked a mile in their shoes...

sm
Apr. 15, 2007, 03:26 PM
"I still have one question, when was the last time Sjef rode on the team...."

More over, it seems this is the second time his attempt to be responsible for training an Olympic team didn't work out. According to this article from 2003:

"The KNHS has been having problems finding the right person in charge of the dressage department in Holland, since German Jurgen Koschel, the most successful Dutch Chef d'equipe so far, was dismissed in 2002. Judge Gishlain Fourage became interim Chef d'equipe at the 2002 World Equestrian Games, and he was followed by the trio Peeters/Janssen/Hinnemann, who were hired to create the path towards the 2004 Olympic Games. De Jong, however, was not satisfied and appointed Rutten today...

[excerpt out of order from same article] "In order to solve the current problems and to build towards a positive future for the Dutch Dressage Team in sight of the 2004 Olympic Games, the KNHS has searched for a new management system and pink slipped Jan Peeters, Sjef Janssen and Johan Hinnemann."


both excerpts from http://www.eurodressage.com/news/dressage/holland/2003/rutten.html published Nov 2003

fargo
Apr. 15, 2007, 06:09 PM
It was an interim team that he was on then SM. So he didn't fail, the interim period just stopped. And the definite coach was then appointed. Know the facts...

DanniS
Apr. 15, 2007, 09:26 PM
This is still going?????
Talk about flogging a dead horse.

He's quit, gone, finished, let it go.

I am sure he has no interest in what is being said here and is probably happily getting on with his life with his wife and two small children.

sm
Apr. 16, 2007, 10:09 AM
fargo, the article is quite clear. If you have a problem with bad reporting, take it up with the publication. Nothing was in there about "interim period" or his contract was up.

Maybe there's another publication you'd like to direct me/us to, something that supports your version?

siegi b.
Apr. 16, 2007, 11:02 AM
sm - why are you so determined to find "dirt"? I think it's pretty obvious at this point that you don't like Sjef for some reason (and you've never even met him), but at this point you're like a pitbull that can't let go.

Coreene
Apr. 16, 2007, 01:21 PM
Back to a post Dutch Mike made. How many Dutch citizens living outside of Holland did you poll before you came to your conculsion re living abroad? Because in my 45 years of living in the US and knowing countless fellow Dutch living here, Canada, etc. (a circle made wider because my parents have a big travel company), I can think of only one who had an issue and went back. But given that the issue was her husband's passing, and she met a new man in Leeuwarden after 40+ years of living here, I don't think that's really hordes having problems with living overseas.

Edited to say that someone, I think it was Velvet, questioned what Janssen's competition background was. He was on the 1983 Dutch team at the European Championships and won the team bronze at the 1991 Europeans.

slc2
Apr. 17, 2007, 10:16 AM
I used to have a number of pics of him riding at different dressage shows in europe, we trashed all that stuff when we moved, but suffice to say, he actually has a lot more experience in dressage competition than most people suppose. At one time it was passed all around on the internet that he didn't have any experience competing in dressage, so that is what everyone came to believe. Hate to have the truth rain on anyone's little parade, but there it is.

Most likely, Sjef has a 'last nerve', just like most other people, and a point where he says he's had enough.

Look, people, Jobs are Jobs. People's life circumstances change, they get married, kids get born, their needs change, people get tired of certain jobs, and people don't always get along in specific combinations under specific circumstances.

In most cases, there isn't really anything wrong with ANYONE (or there isn't anything MORE wrong with one person than anyone else), it just didn't work out, or didn't work out forever.

it's childish and ridiculous to ALWAYS be trying SO hard to put a black cowboy hat on one guy and a white cowboy hat on the other guy. Give it up, grow up. It's disgusting to see dressage people, who are supposed to be intelligent and thoughtful, get wrapped up in such tawdry, cheap topics.

dutchmike
Apr. 17, 2007, 12:58 PM
Back to a post Dutch Mike made. How many Dutch citizens living outside of Holland did you poll before you came to your conculsion re living abroad?

Centraal bureau van statistiek has all the answers;). The emigration boom of the 50's,60's and 70's are far gone. Apart from that by experience to be honest.I know lots of people that have emigrated but returned to NL after1 or 2 years due to either missing the people or due to the sociale voorzieningen in Holland etc. I haven't lived in Holland since 1979 so as you see I don't miss it lol

Velvet
Apr. 17, 2007, 05:22 PM
I used to have a number of pics of him riding at different dressage shows in europe, we trashed all that stuff when we moved, but suffice to say, he actually has a lot more experience in dressage competition than most people suppose.

And yet, I've still never seen him on a team to definitively be able to say what it takes to be at the very top of the sport.

Just a thought...

sm
Apr. 17, 2007, 05:25 PM
Sorry, siegi b, but I am not as “determined” as you think. Had I been, I would have contributed to the spin-off thread started by happydressage. They only briefly touched upon his lawsuits there, and you'll see no post from me on that thread.

And I would really need to kick it up a few major gears to get into “pit bull” mode :) Not surprisingly, it’s a problem (offensive?) for some when there's a search for facts to separate it from whatever hype an individual chooses to release to the press.

Regarding Janssen, dressage is a small world and Sjef could be “back in tomorrow." It’s happened before with him as I already referenced in another post, and he's still relatively young…

kkj
Apr. 17, 2007, 05:38 PM
Velvet, rolkur aside, Sjef can ride. He is an effective/rider trainer. In Europe, it is not uncommon for a man to do a lot of the training and a women to do a lot of the showing. If you are an elegant man like Edward Gal or Andreas you can shine in the showring. If you are a more manly looking guy like Sjef, you may just do a lot of training and leave the showing to someone super tall, thin and elegant like Anky.

fargo
Apr. 17, 2007, 05:44 PM
Velvet you are wrong, he has been on the dutch dressage team in the past. Not the recent past but he has ridden Bo (also known as Olympic Bo who was subsequently ridden by Sven Rothenberger and gonnelien Rothenberger). He won team bronze in 1991 on the EK Dressage with the Dutch dressage team. So he has been there and has done that too..
So he has been there and he is the son of a well known dutch cyclist (sp?) and in that way has known top sport since he was young.

Coreene
Apr. 17, 2007, 06:09 PM
So he has been there and he is the son of a well known dutch cyclist (sp?) and in that way has known top sport since he was young.Exactly. His father, also Sjef Janssen, competed to the pinnacle of the sport, including the Tour de France in 1948.

For those who read Dutch: http://www.volkskrant.nl/sport/article415231.ece/Janssen_weg_bij_dressuurploeg

Rusty Stirrup
Apr. 17, 2007, 06:28 PM
So, have they named a replacement? If not, any guesses?

Coreene
Apr. 17, 2007, 06:30 PM
They won't name one until after Vegas. The article I posted guesses it will be Tineke.

Velvet
Apr. 17, 2007, 07:08 PM
Velvet, rolkur aside, Sjef can ride. He is an effective/rider trainer. In Europe, it is not uncommon for a man to do a lot of the training and a women to do a lot of the showing. If you are an elegant man like Edward Gal or Andreas you can shine in the showring. If you are a more manly looking guy like Sjef, you may just do a lot of training and leave the showing to someone super tall, thin and elegant like Anky.

I wouldn't say that he trains all the horses and Anky just competes them. That's not giving Anky enough credit. She was competing at the Olympic level before Sjef came into her life.

Velvet
Apr. 17, 2007, 07:24 PM
Velvet you are wrong, he has been on the dutch dressage team in the past. Not the recent past but he has ridden Bo (also known as Olympic Bo who was subsequently ridden by Sven Rothenberger and gonnelien Rothenberger). He won team bronze in 1991 on the EK Dressage with the Dutch dressage team. So he has been there and has done that too..
So he has been there and he is the son of a well known dutch cyclist (sp?) and in that way has known top sport since he was young.

I thought he'd only been nationally competitive, not internationally. That's all the info I found on him, thus the reason for my initial question out here on my first post on this topic.

Coreene
Apr. 17, 2007, 07:25 PM
I wouldn't say that he trains all the horses and Anky just competes them. That's not giving Anky enough credit. She was competing at the Olympic level before Sjef came into her life. (At least that's what I've been told.)Okay, you've got to show me exactly where kkj said that Anky "just competes" them. Because I've read it for comprehension and I get something totally different.

Velvet
Apr. 17, 2007, 11:35 PM
Okay, you've got to show me exactly where kkj said that Anky "just competes" them. Because I've read it for comprehension and I get something totally different.

In Europe, it is not uncommon for a man to do a lot of the training and a women to do a lot of the showing.

I guess I won't delete this, but I'm adding a clarification. I am responding to Coreene about my last reply and am highlighting a statement made by KKJ--this was NOT said by me. Thank you for reading this entire message and now having a full understanding. :D

Sabine
Apr. 17, 2007, 11:43 PM
In Europe, it is not uncommon for a man to do a lot of the training and a women to do a lot of the showing.

That is at best hearsay...and I do resent statements that blanket some assumptions about things done in Europe...???
Wonder who is Isabel's secret man...LOL!

dutchmike
Apr. 18, 2007, 07:20 AM
In Europe, it is not uncommon for a man to do a lot of the training and a women to do a lot of the showing.

And we clean the house, wash the dishes, take care of the kids, actually we do everything:p that is the reason most straight males stop working with horses it is just to much ;).

What a statement Velvet IMO where did you get that info from?.

slc2
Apr. 18, 2007, 07:24 AM
It's a ridiculous statement,, absolutely ridiculous, so is what it implies, that the woman needs the man's help with the training.

Each person does differently. Horses, riders and situations differ vastly.

There are ladies who get their husbands to ride the horses whose husbands know nothing of competing at that level, and who just hack the horses on a long rein.

There are a few women who are married to their trainers (KR was) and who got actual relevant help from their husbands. But there are just as many MEN who get help from a FEMALE partner, like Klimke.

Some have a partner or spouse who isn't quite up at their level yet, but who can do a great deal to help.

Then there are situations like with Klimke, who, due to a very heavy work and riding and competing schedule, could very often leave a horse at home for weeks to be schooled by his wife, who, while not as famous to Americans, or with as many international medals to her credit, is an excellent trainer and competitor in her own right, and could do tons of good for his horses and keep them going for Klimke. In fact, she was responsible for much of the work done with Ahlerich. Klimke was still competing very actively on other horses and very often, Ahlerich was home with Ruth or their other trainer. That's VERY common.

There are VERY few women who have a man do all the training and just hop on for the shows, and this is NOT typical of people like Wilcox, Salzgeber, etc, they WANT to do most of their own schooling and do, but someone else can help with the maintenance of the training.

If I would say it was true of ANYONE, it would be true of American women AND MEN, who don't have the skill or experience to dive into the top levels, and rely on a trainer like Herbert Rehbein or Zeilinger to put the final training on the horse so they can enter into those levels.

there are situations, for some people, in which a spouse or partner can very easily hack the horse or school it a little or even work it at a higher level, while the main rider is out of town at a clinic or other competition for their other horses at another level.

In alot of cases, there is NO REASON the main rider has to ride the horse every second, and often when the rider is very busy it's downright IMPOSSIBLE to do that.

In fact, it's fairly obvious with this sort of thing, that a person NEEDS someone at home who can school the horses. No really great competition success is achieved over a period of years with many horses...WITHOUT someone who helps.

Who it is and how that's done varies from person to person, but for KKJ to even IMPLY that this is some sort of weakness or copout is ridiculous. It's absurd. In fact, it's a reality for many busy trainers who succeed repeatedly with more than one horse over the years. Count up how many hours there are in the day, and, especially in Europe, where everything is close by and anyone like Uphoff or WIlcox is going to a show every single weekend SOMEWHERE, count up how many hours there are in a week.

Many horses BENEFIT from having a more easier going rider on them from time to time. They get the work they need but are in more of a 'maintenance mode'.

Other horses have to be ridden every day by the main rider. That can represent a serious problem, but if the horse has a lot of potential someone would try to work around that.

Too, it's the rule, rather than the exception, that more than one person and trainer are involved in the training of a given horse. Typically, no one person has trained ANY of the top FEI dressage horses.

egontoast
Apr. 18, 2007, 07:48 AM
Velvet was quoting kkj when she posted that

slc2
Apr. 18, 2007, 07:55 AM
see, Egon, you DO read 'the drivel', LOL.

egontoast
Apr. 18, 2007, 08:00 AM
I read it. I just try not to write too much of it. Can you say the same?

slc2
Apr. 18, 2007, 09:10 AM
oh egon, you have so much to teach the world!

Dalfan
Apr. 18, 2007, 09:16 AM
see, Egon, you DO read 'the drivel', LOL.

You really didn't believe otherwise, did you?? I never put much stock into "announcements" like that. :lol:

cinder88
Apr. 18, 2007, 09:34 AM
""Maybe if the U.S. hired Sjef as chef, we'd chance better than a bronze in 2008!""

Sure.

And, maybe they can increase fees at the grass roots level in order to pay off his law suits in the US, while they're at it.

Cinder

sm
Apr. 18, 2007, 10:44 AM
Velvet: “I thought he'd only been nationally competitive, not internationally. That's all the info I found on him, thus the reason for my initial question out here on my first post on this topic.”

I can’t find where he’s proven he knows what it takes to either train or ride on the top team (outside of the success he shares with his wife, with his wife naturally contributing a great deal to the equation):

Janssen not on an Olympic Team that medaled:
http://www.databaseolympics.com/sport/sportevent.htm?sp=EQU&enum=160


Janssen not an Olympic Individual that medaled:
http://www.databaseolympics.com/sport/sportevent.htm?sp=EQU&enum=150


I can’t find a bio on this guy, that is a bit silly isn’t it! The little I could find doesn’t indicate WHAT national team (for example, young riders?) or how they/he placed in competition results:

“Mr. Sjef Janssen was a successful dressage rider himself and became a member of the national team, but he achieved his greatest successes as the trainer of Anky van Grunsven, his wife. “http://www.wbs.wur.nl/UK/postacademic+education/Short+International+Programmes/Equine/

Erin
Apr. 18, 2007, 12:02 PM
oh egon, you have so much to teach the world!



You really didn't believe otherwise, did you?? I never put much stock into "announcements" like that. :lol:


Just a teensy heads-up. The moderators are sick enough of the constant catty snarking and personal jabs on this forum that we are *this* close to simply closing it completely to give you ladies a "time out." And I will be more than happy to name names of those who are culpable, so that the thousands of DQs who are upset to not be able to discuss the WC will be able to fill up YOUR inboxes with hate mail.

Grow the hell up. Ignore the people who annoy you. If you can't do that, leave. Simple enough?

Velvet
Apr. 18, 2007, 12:44 PM
Velvet was quoting kkj when she posted that

THANK YOU, eggie!

I can't believe I'm being slammed for clarifying a response I had already made to a post that had THAT statement in it. Please, people, read the thread before jumping on someone. It was NOT me who would make such a statement. I thought it was offensive, Coreene was asking me what I was addressing in my response to another posters post.

Sheesh, this board sometimes, I tell ya! No wonder everyone thinks a person making a comment on the rail is saying something bad. Everyone is looking for someone to say something bad and jump on them. :rolleyes: I was just commenting on the fact that I did not agree with such a blatent statement, especially as it seemed to be pointed at Anky. That's all. Then I reposted the exact sentence I was addressing.

Are we all clear now? I know eggie is! ;)

BTW, I think I'll go and delete the offending message since I certainly do NOT want to be held responsible for that statement!

Coreene
Apr. 18, 2007, 12:49 PM
SM, it's already been stated that he was on two European championship teams, and medaled as well.

ProxyDressage
Apr. 18, 2007, 02:25 PM
Just a teensy heads-up. The moderators are sick enough of the constant catty snarking and personal jabs on this forum that we are *this* close to simply closing it completely to give you ladies a "time out." And I will be more than happy to name names of those who are culpable, so that the thousands of DQs who are upset to not be able to discuss the WC will be able to fill up YOUR inboxes with hate mail.

Grow the hell up. Ignore the people who annoy you. If you can't do that, leave. Simple enough?

Read this and again and again and again, and consider your own behaviour ;) :D

slc2
Apr. 18, 2007, 02:27 PM
relax velvet, i knew you didn't say it.

egontoast
Apr. 18, 2007, 03:57 PM
Good grief. My reply was to Sabine and dutchmike.

dutchmike
Apr. 18, 2007, 04:34 PM
Good grief. My reply was to Sabine and dutchmike.


Well heck Velvet put it in nice thick letters I couldn't miss it:p

egontoast
Apr. 18, 2007, 04:39 PM
yes, she needs to learn about quotation marks!:)

sm
Apr. 18, 2007, 04:52 PM
Coreene : "SM, it's already been stated that he was on two European championship teams, and medaled as well."

* * *

Coreene, after searching specifically for FEI euro championship results (pdf sheet understandably did not come up with a text search), I see all of one team bronze to answer Velvet's earlier question. I do see Bartels name quite a bit more often throughout the top three:

Nothing for Sjef under individual medals 1963 – 2005, pages 1-3:
http://www.horsesport.org/d/PDFS/d_europe_champ_001.pdf

1991 bronze for Sjef under team medals 1963 – 2005, page 4-5:
http://www.horsesport.org/d/PDFS/d_europe_champ_001.pdf

other Netherlands TEAM placements without riders mentioned:
1989 – fifth of eight teams competing
1991 – third of ten teams competing
1993 – third of nine teams competing without Sjef on the team here
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:v0pC_wg_4L0J:www.horsesport.org/d/PDFS/d_europe_teamplacing_000.pdf+%22european+champions hips%22+dressage&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=15&gl=us

EDITED TO ADD this addresses what was Originally Posted by Sjef Janssen:
"I have the feeling that an important group of top riders don't have the top sport mentality which, in my opinion, is necessary for the preparation for the 2008 Olympic Games. This is reason enough for me to quit as chef d'equipe. The riders are too focused with peripheral things and too little with top sport. Meetings with the A and B-teams as well as individual discussions did not lead to improvement, nor commitment," Janssen explained.

egontoast
Apr. 18, 2007, 05:06 PM
Let's go looking for the recent showing records of all the other popular trainers.

If a person is proven as a successful Olympic gold trainer ( more than once) what does it matter if he himself showed recently? I thought all competitions were corruptly judged anyway? Would you like him more if he won some prizes? :lol:

sm
Apr. 18, 2007, 05:22 PM
eggy since you asked, in comparison some top sport trainers track records:

KLAUS BALKENHOL COMPETITION RECORD

Most important successes to 1996 ...
1979
German Vice-Champion (Berlin/Rabauke)

1988
European Champion / Police-riders

1990
German Vice-Champion (Mannheim/Goldstern)
Team-European-Champion and Vice-European-Champion free-style (single) (Donaueschingen/Goldstern)
German Champion (Münster/Goldstern)

1992
Team-Gold-Medal and Bronze-Medal, single (Barcelona/Olympic games)

1993
Team-European-Champion and 11nd single (Lipica/Goldstern)
Deutscher Meister (Verden/Goldstern)
1nd Grand-Prix-Special (CDI Donaueschingen/Goldstern)
2nd Grand-Prix and 3nd Grand-Prix-Special (CDI Achleiten/Goldstern)
3nd Grand-Prix-Special (CHIO Aachen/Goldstern)
1nd Grand-Prix and 1nd Grand-Prix-Special (Düsseldorf/Goldstern)
4nd Grand-Prix
1nd Grand-Prix-free-style (Hamburg Derby/Goldstern)
1nd Grand-Prix 3ndGrand-Prix-free-style(Stuttgart/Goldstern)
1nd Weltcup-free-style(CHI Berlin/Goldstern)
1nd Nürnberger Burgpokal (CSI Frankfurt/Ehrengold)
1nd Weltcup-free-style(CDI-W Amsterdam/Goldstern)



1994
Team-Worldcup-Champion and Vice-Worldcup-Winner single/free-style(Den Haag/Goldstern)
1nd Grand-Prix(Bremen/Goldstern)
1nd Volvo Weltcup-free-style 1nd Grand-Prix (CDI-Neumünster/Goldstern)
1nd Grand-Prix und 1nd Weltcup-free-style (CDI-W Paris/Goldstern)
4nd Volvo Woldcup(Göteborg/Goldstern)
1nd Grand-Prix und 1nd Grand-Prix-Special (Steinhagen/Goldstern)
1nd Grand-Prix 2nd Grand-Prix-Special
1nd Grand-Prix und
1nd Grand-Prix-Special (Balve/Laudatio)
4nd Grand-Prix und 2nd Grand-Prix-Special (Balve/Ehrengold)
3nd Grand-Prix und 2nd Grand-Prix-Special (CHIO/Aachen)
11nd Grand-Prix-Special (CDI Frankfurt/Laudatio)



1995
1nd Grand-Prix-Special (Berlin-Olympiastadion/Goldstern)
3nd Grand-Prix-Special (Berlin-Olympiastadion/Gracioso)
2nd Grand-Prix-Special(Olfen/Gracioso)
4nd Grand-Prix-Special (Olfen/Laudatio)
1nd Grand-Prix(Steinhagen/Gracioso)
1nd Grand-Prix (Steinhagen/Goldstern)
1nd German Dressage Derby (Hamburg/Goldstern)
European Team-Gold (Mondorf/Goldstern)
1nd German-Team-Champion
1nd German-Champion/single (Gera/Goldstern)



1996
Goldmedal/ Team and 6nd /single (Atlanta/Olympic games)
2nd Worldcup-Europan Ligue(Garcon)
2nd Grand-Prix and
2nd Grand-Prix-Special (Berlin/Garcon)
1nd Grand-Prix and 1.nd Grand-Prix-Special (Olfen/Goldstern)
1nd Grand-Prix-free-style(Olfen/Garcon)


* * *

IVAN KIZAMOV FULL COMPETITION AND PARTIAL TRAINER RECORD
Medals: OLYMPIC GAMES:
1 gold - individual ( Mexico City 1968 )
1 gold - team ( Munich 1972 )
1 silver - team ( Mexico City 1968 )
1 bronze - team ( Tokio 1964 )

WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS:
1 bronze - individual ( Aachen 1970 )
1 gold - team ( Aachen 1970 )
1 silver - team ( Kopenhagen 1974 )

EUROPIAN CHAMPIONSHIPS:
1 silver - individual ( Aahen 1967 )
1 silver - individual ( Wolfsburg 1969 )
1 bronze - individual ( Wolfsburg 1971 )
1 silver - team ( Aahen 1967 )
1 silver - team ( Wolfsburg 1971 )
1 silver - team ( Aahen 1973 )
1 bronze - team ( Kopenhagen 1965 )
1 bronze - team ( Wolsburg 1969 )


For 13 years, from 1964 through 1976 he was a leader of the USSR equestrian team. After finishing his personal riding career he worked as a head trainer of the junior Olimpic team of the USSR and later, he led the main Olimpic team.

Since 1957 till now ( 40 years!!! ) he has been a head trainer and lead figure in the eqestrian sports and businesses of the city of Saint Petersburg, RUSSIA

egontoast
Apr. 18, 2007, 05:25 PM
Well the US ought to be a shoe in then !

Anyone have hebermann's showing record?

sm
Apr. 18, 2007, 05:28 PM
you minx, you're missing the point again, eggy.

DanniS
Apr. 18, 2007, 09:59 PM
you minx, you're missing the point again, eggy.

I guess I am as well.:o
Can you explain it to me?.

I simply don't see why everone is getting antsy about this.
What do you hope to change?

Do you really think Sjef will come on here and appologise personally to you?

It really doesn't matter what you think of him, Anky thinks he's OK, and after all she does alright competitively.;)

sm
Apr. 19, 2007, 10:53 AM
DanniS, it seems like you haven't been reading throughout or following this thread, and I don't want to continue repeating myself.

Meanwhile, you're needed over at the "Sjef Quits (Spinoff) " thread. You might even want to take your remark, "Do you really think Sjef will come on here and appologise personally to you?" and post it again over there :)

Why you think I need an apology for his own international track/competition record is beyond me. It would be nice to have his bio somewhere though on the internet, without clear direction from previous posts here I wouldn't have found any competition record for Sjef on line.

DanniS
Apr. 19, 2007, 11:14 AM
I have been reading/following this thread and if you go back I have even previously posted also.;)

You don't think it a bit odd that you feel the need to challenge his credentials when it really doesn't concern you?

What makes you think that you are an authority on the Dutch dressage team?

Your snarky response wasn't called for.

sm
Apr. 19, 2007, 11:33 AM
DanniS, "I degress!! "

Since DEGRESS isn't a word, did you mean "I digress" ? If that's what you meant, then yes, you are digressing. In a big way.

Again, "it seems like you haven't been reading throughout or following this thread, and I don't want to continue repeating myself. " LOL, I'm repeating myself... Just read my earlier post #110 please, I responded once already, thank you.

DanniS
Apr. 19, 2007, 11:42 AM
I humbly apologise for the typo I made.
It shan't happen again.

I agree with a past post that you seem to be taking this way too personally.

Have you met Sjef?.
Has he done something to personally offend you?

I do believe this article says it all, nothing to argue with.

Dutch team chef d'equipe Sjef Janssen has resigned with immediate effect.

"I'm a 200% professional and I expect that from my A and B squad, too," said Janssen. "If I don't get full commitment from them all and can't get them all on the same line one-and-a-half years before the Olympics, then I think it is better for me to concentrate on Anky and the other individuals in the team who I train privately anyway."

Under Janssen's management, The Netherlands beat the German team for the first time in 28 years of competition at Aachen 2005.

George de Jong, the Dutch Equestrian Federations director for Top Sport expressed his disappointment at Janssen's decision, saying: "We had a good feeling that we were on the right road for the preparations for Hong Kong. Janssen gave new stimuli to the management of the dressage team and worked on a very professional level."



Does it really concern you that much about his competition resume?
It seems that the proof iss in the pudding.;)

egontoast
Apr. 19, 2007, 11:48 AM
Ohoh, you spelled "is" wrong.

No doubt that negates everything else you have said.;)

sm
Apr. 19, 2007, 11:50 AM
Danni, something tells me (1) you're still digressing (2) you obviously still haven't read the thread yet.

Try to get around to reading post 96 while you're at it. Okay?

DanniS
Apr. 19, 2007, 11:56 AM
Ohoh, you spelled "is" wrong.

No doubt that negates everything else you have said.;)

:lol: :lol: Damn keyboard.
Must have a virus:winkgrin: ;)

DanniS
Apr. 19, 2007, 11:59 AM
Danni, something tells me (1) you're still digressing (2) you obviously still haven't read the thread yet.

Try to get around to reading post 96 while you're at it. Okay?

I am not particularly interested in rehashing what you have posted, it is irrelevant.

What is interesting to me is that you took my reply so personally.
It was not necessarily aimed at you but if you would like it to be, consider it done.;) :lol:

Velvet
Apr. 19, 2007, 12:02 PM
Good grief. My reply was to Sabine and dutchmike.


Um, yeah, that's why was thank you! :lol: I was thanking you for correctly reading my post. :D

Velvet
Apr. 19, 2007, 12:08 PM
I am not particularly interested in rehashing what you have posted, it is irrelevant.

What is interesting to me is that you took my reply so personally.
It was not necessarily aimed at you but if you would like it to be, consider it done.;) :lol:

You really should read it all before you attack someone. I asked, in a general way, what Sjef had done that he felt he KNEW what it took to be at the very top of the sport. No one is looking for an apology from him. Good grief, we don't really care. But if you go back and read the posts, you'll see the reasons behind some of these later posts.

BTW, it's also the reason people misunderstood my post in bold. :lol: I think now everyone is on that same page regarding that one. I'm also happy to see the information on what Sjef has and has not done. It's just more information. Nothing wrong with information, we aren't even using it against him, we're just CLARIFYING things--to settle them in our own minds. :yes:

DanniS
Apr. 19, 2007, 12:18 PM
I am not attcking anyone, never have.
This is a forum and I don't persoanally think attacking anyone on here brings any type of gratification.;)

I really do not see the need for this thread to have gone as far as it has.
It was his decision to quit.
The reasons are irrelevant to all but Sjef(and Anky)

And yes some of the posts on here have been personal and it certainly is odd that for people who don't care about it that so much research has been done on what he has and hasn't done.:lol: :winkgrin:

sm
Apr. 19, 2007, 12:25 PM
Danni, this is a DISCUSSION forum, if you don't like the subject being discussed then leave. What's in it for you to stop a discussion when you write, "I really do not see the need for this thread to have gone as far as it has." ?

Velvet just patiently took time and explained it to you, assuming you can't understand it from reading the posts on your own, and you STILL don't get it?

excerpt post 96 "Grow the hell up. Ignore the people who annoy you. If you can't do that, leave. Simple enough?"

DanniS
Apr. 19, 2007, 12:36 PM
Danni, this is a DISCUSSION forum, if you don't like the subject being discussed then leave. What's in it for you to stop a discussion when you write, "I really do not see the need for this thread to have gone as far as it has." ?

Velvet just patiently took time and explained it to you, assuming you can't understand it from reading the posts on your own, and you STILL don't get it?

excerpt post 96 "Grow the hell up. Ignore the people who annoy you. If you can't do that, leave. Simple enough?"

Right back at you.
I don't think there is any need for your rudeness, this is a discussion forum and that is all I am doing.

And I think I am correct in saying that you are the one who initiated this discussion.

All I asked is that you explain it to me as, like eggy, felt as though I was missing the point.

Velvet
Apr. 19, 2007, 12:40 PM
Enough, please, my sides can't take it anymore. Talk about going from the ridiculous to the sublime! :lol: Oh, man, how much further can a garage gnome take this off track? :lol:

Let's get back to the real fun! When will Sjef learn to be gracious? Wasn't that the last major point of interest on this topic? Or am I still off track? Was it actually a rollkur discussion? ;) Or were we on the Erin-attack? :eek:

:lol:

sm
Apr. 19, 2007, 12:53 PM
I can't tell, Velvet, seems like maybe DS still wants it all explained again? Maybe Eggy will to do a Cliffs Notes version...

egontoast
Apr. 19, 2007, 01:22 PM
Cliff notes (apply to any thread):

I'm right

No , I'm right

I'm right

No, I'm right

Um, you can't spell, so I'm right.

No, I'm right.

Um, you can't read, so I'm right.

No I'm right

um, you are obviously stupid, so I'm right

etc.

kelliope
Apr. 19, 2007, 02:08 PM
Cliff notes (apply to any thread):

I'm right

No , I'm right

I'm right

No, I'm right

Um, you can't spell, so I'm right.

No, I'm right.

Um, you can't read, so I'm right.

No I'm right

um, you are obviously stupid, so I'm right

etc.

:lol: :lol: That is the funniest thing I have ever read!!!!

DanniS
Apr. 19, 2007, 07:43 PM
:lol: :lol:
Cliff notes (apply to any thread):

I'm right

No , I'm right

I'm right

No, I'm right

Um, you can't spell, so I'm right.

No, I'm right.

Um, you can't read, so I'm right.

No I'm right

um, you are obviously stupid, so I'm right

etc.

So true, so true.:lol: :lol:

This would have to be one of the most accurate interpretations I have seen.

Velvet
Apr. 20, 2007, 12:16 AM
Okay, I admit it, I just can't resist! :yes: Imke has the third spot in Vegas. Hmmm...yep, sure proof that she's not serious, unfit, and can't give 100% to the sport. :lol: :lol:

I guess the proof really IS in the pudding, or in this case, the dressage ring. ;)

fargo
Apr. 20, 2007, 04:33 AM
Sorry Velvet but Imke is one of the persons that is personally still training with Anky and Sjef and is not one of the persons that isn't up to standard. She is definitely not one of the persons that Sjef is complaining about. She is still riding with them and is always aiming for the highest possible.

P.R.E.
Apr. 20, 2007, 05:13 AM
I had a casula conversation tonight at Las Vegas, with someone that works for Anky. He confirmed me, that the only reason Sjef quited was because of the lack of commitment of some rider to the Olympic goal. That there were some that their main interest was to make money and had the Olympics as something secondary intheir list.

egontoast
Apr. 20, 2007, 06:13 AM
Okay, I admit it, I just can't resist! :yes: Imke has the third spot in Vegas. Hmmm...yep, sure proof that she's not serious, unfit, and can't give 100% to the sport. :lol: :lol:

I guess the proof really IS in the pudding, or in this case, the dressage ring. ;)
__________________




Sorry Velvet but Imke is one of the persons that is personally still training with Anky and Sjef and is not one of the persons that isn't up to standard. She is definitely not one of the persons that Sjef is complaining about. She is still riding with them and is always aiming for the highest possible.


:lol: Thanks for the chuckle!:lol:

Velvet
Apr. 20, 2007, 11:43 AM
Sorry Velvet but Imke is one of the persons that is personally still training with Anky and Sjef and is not one of the persons that isn't up to standard. She is definitely not one of the persons that Sjef is complaining about. She is still riding with them and is always aiming for the highest possible.

Huh, interesting, that's not what I'd heard. I also didn't find that on the site for academybartels.com. Was it lost in translation? Or just not founded?

DanniS
Apr. 20, 2007, 12:02 PM
Huh, interesting, that's not what I'd heard. I also didn't find that on the site for academybartels.com. Was it lost in translation? Or just not founded?

Well I don't know where you heard it, but yes you heard wrong.;)

Please read:

Trainer-pupil (HS9/13)

Anky van Grunsven en Imke Schellekens-Bartels

De basis blijft het belangrijkst
Imke Schellekens-Bartels is één van de rijzende sterren in het Nederlandse A-kader dressuur. Met de door haar moeder afgerichte Sunrise is ze de laatste tijd een geduchte concurrent op de wereldbekerwedstrijden. De amazone wordt getraind door tweevoudig olympisch kampioene Anky van Grunsven. Hoefslag bezocht het tweetal tijdens een training.

Velvet
Apr. 20, 2007, 12:11 PM
I guess Babel fish loses things in translation. :lol: Here's how it interpreted your Dutch paragraph:

"coach orphan (HS9/13) Anky van Grunsven and Imke Schellekens-Bartels The basis remains the most important Imke Schellekens-Bartels is one of the ASTRE rising in the Dutch a framework dressuur. With the Sunrise trained by its mother is them the last time a fearred competitor on the world goblet games. The Amazon is trained by double Olympic champion Anky van Grunsven. Hoefslag visited the pair during a training."

To me, this doesn't really sounds like she's working with Anky, bur rather the horse was in training with Anky--at sometime. It's just still not clear to me. Guess a better EXACT translation is needed of what you posted.

sm
Apr. 20, 2007, 02:02 PM
eggy, that was a great laugh :) what great CliffsNotes!

Just one comment re your recap "Um, you can't spell, so I'm right."

It wasn't the SPELLING CORRECTION on Danni's HEADLINE for post #111 which should have apparently read "I digress!!"

It was the word itself, DIGRESS: di·gress 1. to deviate or wander away from the main topic or purpose in speaking or writing; depart from the principal line of argument, plot, study, etc.

sm
Apr. 20, 2007, 02:21 PM
well, that's one down (ALLEGEDLY absolved from the charge) and three to go:

fargo #129: "...Imke is one of the persons that is personally still training with Anky and Sjef and is not one of the persons that isn't up to standard. She is definitely not one of the persons that Sjef is complaining about. She is still riding with them and is always aiming for the highest possible."

Too bad it didn't get top press, so far is it reported ANYWHERE besides our little group here?

egontoast
Apr. 20, 2007, 03:13 PM
ooooh sorry but look I know it's hard to accept but everyone can be wrong sometime. It's Ok. To live is to err.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

dutchmike
Apr. 20, 2007, 03:39 PM
Trainer-pupil (HS9/13)

Anky van Grunsven en Imke Schellekens-Bartels

De amazone wordt getraind door tweevoudig olympisch kampioene Anky van Grunsven. Hoefslag bezocht het tweetal tijdens een training.


Translated into english " the rider is being trained by two time champion Anky v G. yada,yada,yada.

The bottom line is that although noone agrees with his methods etc finds him arrogant etc , he does produce winning horses/riders. In short if you can do it better than Sjefke then get your butt into gear and produce better results ;)

fargo
Apr. 20, 2007, 05:48 PM
The funny thing is that you don't really know what's going on at all. Sjef was coach for the A AND THE B-TEAM. The B-team should be wanna-be candidates for the A-team, working their asses of to get into the A-team and in that way increasing the population of the group available for the Olympics. So Sjef was coaching about 12 people or something like that, wouldn't know the exact number at this time but it involves much more than the actual olympic riders that participated until now. The statements he made are about the WHOLE A- and B-selection. So while you are focussing on the A-members this also and mostly involves the B-selection too. Imke was trained by Tineke and still is trained by Tineke and is also training since years and years with Anky and/or Sjef. This relation hasn't changed. Who actually gives the lessons varies but she is still also being trained/coached by Anky and Sjef. So to think that Imke is not training with them is not true. She also trains with her mom who is with her at the Academy which they run together..

DanniS
Apr. 20, 2007, 09:27 PM
;)
well, that's one down (ALLEGEDLY absolved from the charge) and three to go:

fargo #129: "...Imke is one of the persons that is personally still training with Anky and Sjef and is not one of the persons that isn't up to standard. She is definitely not one of the persons that Sjef is complaining about. She is still riding with them and is always aiming for the highest possible."

Too bad it didn't get top press, so far is it reported ANYWHERE besides our little group here?

I hope this has now been cleared up for you in post # 138 & 139.;)
You see it has been reported in the press, but it seems that those who don't understand Dutch have problems reading it.;)

But hey considering the people in question ARE Dutch it is hardly surprising that this is where they get coverage.:lol:

For those people who follow International dressage it hardly seems necessary that every time Imke or Anky compete that it has to be reiterated who is the trainer of who, it should already be known.

DanniS
Apr. 20, 2007, 09:29 PM
ooooh sorry but look I know it's hard to accept but everyone can be wrong sometime. It's Ok. To live is to err.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh eggy, you should know by now that there are a select few who NEVER err.
But if this is all they are picking on me for and not the content of what I am posting makes you wonder if they are clutching at straws:confused: :lol:

I would love to be perfection personified but alas I am a mere human, sm I am sorry I am not as perfect as you with my grammar.
But don't you find it odd that whilst reading everyone's posts you must revert to a dictionary????.

Sabine
Apr. 20, 2007, 10:37 PM
Imke went back to her family to train..without breaking her good relationship to A&S- but still drawing the line- as did van Lieren, van Baalen and Gal to a certain degree...too much Sjef is hard to digest....;)

Eggie and Danni- keep it up-- I luv the loose spelling around here...LOL- very becoming for foreigners.....

DanniS
Apr. 21, 2007, 12:09 AM
Oh Sabine, I can't help being foreign, really I can't.:lol: :lol:
This thread has given me much amusement and I hope it continues to do so.:yes:

All along my point has been:
I really never will figure out why people find it necessary to begrudge another person's choice to decide what they want to do.
And I do find it a little strange that court records were posted because noone knows if it has been settled or not.
And for that matter why is it anyone else's business??

Yes this is qa BB and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but... if we could keep to the facts where possible and stop trying to defame someone most people here have never met then that would be good.:)

Sabine
Apr. 21, 2007, 12:14 AM
Oh Sabine, I can't help being foreign, really I can't.:lol: :lol:
This thread has given me much amusement and I hope it continues to do so.:yes:

All along my point has been:
I really never will figure out why people find it necessary to begrudge another person's choice to decide what they want to do.
And I do find it a little strange that court records were posted because noone knows if it has been settled or not.
And for that matter why is it anyone else's business??

Yes this is qa BB and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but... if we could keep to the facts where possible and stop trying to defame someone most people here have never met then that would be good.:)

This is a very good post that could be applied to several threads that are on-going here right now...;)

best advice I can give: go back to riding - and make your next ride better! Focus- feel - enjoy!

DanniS
Apr. 21, 2007, 12:21 AM
This is a very good post that could be applied to several threads that are on-going here right now...;)

best advice I can give: go back to riding - and make your next ride better! Focus- feel - enjoy!

I agree.
Unfortunately I am not riding atm as I do not have enough time.:no:
But if you'd like to volunteer to come over, I have a REALLY nice Don Frederico stallion who'd appreciate the work.;) :winkgrin:

OMG, I just noticed another typo in my previous post :eek: , I guess it's only a matter of time before I am villified for that as well. ;) :lol: :lol:

Sabine
Apr. 21, 2007, 12:32 AM
I agree.
Unfortunately I am not riding atm as I do not have enough time.:no:
But if you'd like to volunteer to come over, I have a REALLY nice Don Frederico stallion who'd appreciate the work.;) :winkgrin:

OMG, I just noticed another typo in my previous post :eek: , I guess it's only a matter of time before I am villified for that as well. ;) :lol: :lol:

I'd take the stallion in a heartbeat...but I think - alone flying time is like 20hours?? from LA? jeez someone invent a time machine already---I would LOVE to galopp a nice stallion across the lush green fields of NZ...my god- what a treat that would be- and leave all this nitty-gritty BS behind...YEAH!!!

DanniS
Apr. 21, 2007, 12:47 AM
I'd take the stallion in a heartbeat...but I think - alone flying time is like 20hours?? from LA? jeez someone invent a time machine already---I would LOVE to galopp a nice stallion across the lush green fields of NZ...my god- what a treat that would be- and leave all this nitty-gritty BS behind...YEAH!!!

Lush green fields of WHERE?????

I'm Australian not a Kiwi. :lol: :lol:
But we do have the fields, maybe not lush green atm, but fiels none the less.

Sabine
Apr. 21, 2007, 12:53 AM
Lush green fields of WHERE?????

I'm Australian not a Kiwi. :lol: :lol:
But we do have the fields, maybe not lush green atm, but fiels none the less.

Oh sorry- but nonetheless- what I hear it's heaven down there- and much more relaxed than what we have around here...actually a countrymate of yours is coming to visit me this summer...we just need faster airplanes and I'll hop on over and ride that nice young horse of yours...;)!!!

DanniS
Apr. 21, 2007, 12:57 AM
Oh sorry- but nonetheless- what I hear it's heaven down there- and much more relaxed than what we have around here...actually a countrymate of yours is coming to visit me this summer...we just need faster airplanes and I'll hop on over and ride that nice young horse of yours...;)!!!

you'd be welcome anytime, I'd love to have you stay.:)
I'm going to the Bundeschampionat this year and catching up with friends, are you going?

Sabine
Apr. 21, 2007, 12:58 AM
you'd be welcome anytime, I'd love to have you stay.:)
I'm going to the Bundeschampionat this year and catching up with friends, are you going?

when is it? I am in England in June- that's for sure- end of June...

DanniS
Apr. 21, 2007, 01:00 AM
August, mid to late I think