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GreystoneKC
Mar. 13, 2007, 03:47 PM
Hi guys.

Ok, so I'm a bonafide Hunter Snob. Really. I like my rings and rails and bling and that's about that. As a h/j I have ridden for 23 years and been pro for 10 years. So then this guy comes from CA to work for me and he's into dressage and eventing. Get's me to go out "extreme trail riding" with him and some friends (this was NOT your grandmother's trail riding folks!) and has me practicing dressage tests while helping him work on his horse's flat work. ???Now let me note a couple things... all I currently have to ride of my own is a 13.1h pinto pony. I ride/train other horses for people, but all *I* own myself right now is this little guy. Also, I love my flatwork.

OK so my new buddy has an event coming up, his first in NJ, at Flora Lea in April. I'll be going with him, but the thing is, he wants me to show at the event. Ok, so I'm considering going - to do beginner novice - on my medium pony - who I am rediculously tall on (though my insanely short legs fit him great!). He tells me (and another friend who's into dressage and eventing also says) that I won't look stupid because "trainers show ponies for kids all the time" and that Flora Lea is supposedly "low key" (I'll put that subtley). I'd like to take my pony because he is for sale and I think it would be a great market for him to be in and one that I currently have no access to. He's been an awesome little hunter pony, but I think his heart would like the more "fun" stuff much better.

Now for my questions.... If I do this thing... What do I wear??? Dressage: I've been told you can get away with beige britches, but only with navy coat. And if you wear a black coat you must wear white britches. I get the whole white shirt thing, and I'm assuming black boots and gloves. My two main show helmets are a subtly blinged out blk/gry GR8 and an even more blinged out black velvet GPA. What about that? How bad is it to wear beige britches? Also, can I use a jumping saddle for dressage or should I beg to borrow my friend's dressage saddle, which, once I got used to the FREAKISHLY LONG stirrups, was very comfortable for me to ride in? XCountry: Apparently those vest things are required? What do you wear under it??? It might still be chilly in April. And loud colours are ok? Like my little pinto has 2 blue eyes, can I match my stuff to him? LOL (if I'm gonna do this, I might as well do it up!). Stadium: (i think that's what you guys call it) Wear the same thing I would for a nice jumper class at a h/j show? White britches or no? Any restrictions? Oh and about that stadium stuff... I hear it's optimum time. But someone was telling me the optimum time is also the time allowed, so it's kindof like a Price is Right class, be the closest to the time without going over? Weird. Our Optimum Time classes have a optimum time and a time allowed, which would be a few seconds longer than the optimum.

OK, so have at it eventer peoples. Here's a clueless hunter chick who needs your knowledge. Any details you can give me would be great. Oh! And someone said the beginner novice at Flora Lea has no water!! BUMMER! That's the one thing I was really looking forward to!!! So what will the XC course be like at Flora Lea?

Thanks for the help!

scubed
Mar. 13, 2007, 04:02 PM
Beige britches are totally fine, with a black coat or a navy coat or a conservative tweed or dark coat of any color (though these are not seen too often). Your helmet must be navy or black (though people use the ones with the charcoal stripe). Here are the rules:

DRESSAGE TEST.
▲ a. Tests and Horse Trials (Beginner Novice through Preliminary)—Hunt Cap—black or dark blue; Coat—dark color or tweed, tail coats are not permitted; Shirt—white or light color, with stock and pin, or choker, or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white; Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, fi eld, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps and/or half-chaps are not allowed. BOD 1/15/06 Effective 12/1/06
CROSS-COUNTRY TEST. Light-weight clothing is appropriate for this Test, a shirt (any color) with sleeves must be worn. Protective Headgear in accordance with paragraph 1 above. This headgear may be any color. Britches or jodhpurs may be any color; Gloves (if worn) may be any color; Boots—black, brown, fi eld, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps or half-chaps are
not allowed. BOD 1/15/06 Effective 12/1/06
▲ 7. JUMPING TEST. Hunting dress or uniform. Protective headgear, with chin harness, designed expressly for equestrian use in accordance with paragraph 1 above. Hat covers other than solid black or dark blue are not allowed. Coat—dark color or tweed (if Novice through prelim.) Shirt—stock with pin, choker or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white; Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, field, or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps
or half-chaps are not allowed. Member of armed and police forces, as in EV113.5.b.

scubed
Mar. 13, 2007, 04:07 PM
And...fine to use a jumping saddle for all three phases (there is another thread about that). In addition to the protective vest for cross-country, you need to have a properly filled out medical armband for cross-country and for stadium jumping. You can get it here: http://www.useventing.com/resources/files/docs/c-f-1004-USEAMedicalCards.pdf. There are holders you can buy or you can just put it visibly in a clear plastic holder and rubber band or tape to your arm. Rules for eventing can be viewed or downloaded here http://www.useventing.com/competitions.php?id=86

HAVE FUN!!!

p.s. I believe the water has been an option on the BN course sometimes, but not sure on that

RAyers
Mar. 13, 2007, 04:09 PM
H


XCountry: Apparently those vest things are required? What do you wear under it??? It might still be chilly in April. And loud colours are ok? Like my little pinto has 2 blue eyes, can I match my stuff to him? LOL (if I'm gonna do this, I might as well do it up!). Stadium: (i think that's what you guys call it) Wear the same thing I would for a nice jumper class at a h/j show? White britches or no? Any restrictions? Oh and about that stadium stuff... I hear it's optimum time. But someone was telling me the optimum time is also the time allowed, so it's kindof like a Price is Right class, be the closest to the time without going over? Weird. Our Optimum Time classes have a optimum time and a time allowed, which would be a few seconds longer than the optimum.



Vest are required as is approved headgear (the GR8 works). Standing martingales are ILLEGAL (dangerous on XC). Optimum time is based on a consistent pace. I believe for you it will be around 250 meters per minute (fast trot slow canter). There is no "time allowed." The maximum time allowed before elimination is twice the optimum time.

Reed

Janet
Mar. 13, 2007, 04:19 PM
Good for you. GO for it.

But FIRST, read the rules, instead of taking other people's word about attire. Unlike Hunter (wash jackets???) the rules REALLY DO reflect what people wear.
http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2007/12-EV.pdf

Attire for dressage-



a. Tests and Horse Trials (Beginner Novice through Preliminary)—Hunt Cap—black or dark blue; Coat—dark color or tweed, tail coats are not permitted; Shirt—white or light color, with stock and pin, or choker, or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white; Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, field, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps and/or half-chaps are not allowed. BOD 1/15/06 Effective 12/1/06
I have been wearing a black jacket with beige britches for dressage for over 20 years. Perfectly legal, and socially acceptable.


Hi guys.
Now for my questions.... If I do this thing... What do I wear??? Dressage: I've been told you can get away with beige britches, but only with navy coat. And if you wear a black coat you must wear white britches. I get the whole white shirt thing, and I'm assuming black boots and gloves. My two main show helmets are a subtly blinged out blk/gry GR8 and an even more blinged out black velvet GPA. What about that? How bad is it to wear beige britches?
I have been wearing a black jacket with beige britches for dressage for over 20 years. Perfectly legal, and socially acceptable.

Your "blinged out" black GPA is probably legal ("black or dark blue huint cap") but I woudl probly get a black helmet cover just in case the TD has a "thing" about bling


Also, can I use a jumping saddle for dressage or should I beg to borrow my friend's dressage saddle, which, once I got used to the FREAKISHLY LONG stirrups, was very comfortable for me to ride in?
Whichever is mreo comfortable or give a better test. I have pictures of Olympians doing dressage in jumping saddles.

XCountry: Apparently those vest things are required? What do you wear under it??? It might still be chilly in April. And loud colours are ok?
Yes, the safety vest IS required. As for what goes under (and/or over) it, the only real requirement is that you MUST have sleeves. Most people wear a polo/rugby in warm weather. In colder weather you will see everything from a sweater or sweatshirt to a parka. Here is what the rules say
6. CROSS-COUNTRY TEST. Light-weight clothing is appropriate for this Test, a shirt (any color) with sleeves must be worn. Protective Headgear in accordance with paragraph 1 above. This headgear may be any color. Britches or jodhpurs may be any color; Gloves (if worn) may be any color; Boots—black, brown, field, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps or half-chaps are not allowed. BOD 1/15/06 Effective 12/1/06


Like my little pinto has 2 blue eyes, can I match my stuff to him? LOL (if I'm gonna do this, I might as well do it up!). Stadium: (i think that's what you guys call it) Wear the same thing I would for a nice jumper class at a h/j show? White britches or no? Any restrictions?
Here is what the rules say
7. JUMPING TEST. Hunting dress or uniform. Protective headgear, with chin harness, designed expressly for equestrian use in accordance with paragraph 1 above. Hat covers other than solid black or dark blue are not allowed. Coat—dark color or tweed (if Novice through prelim.) Shirt—stock with pin, choker or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white; Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, field, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps or half-chaps are not allowed. Member of armed and police forces, as in EV113.5.b. BOD 1/15/06 Effective 12/1/06

Oh and about that stadium stuff... I hear it's optimum time. But someone was telling me the optimum time is also the time allowed, so it's kindof like a Price is Right class, be the closest to the time without going over? Weird. Our Optimum Time classes have a optimum time and a time allowed, which would be a few seconds longer than the optimum.
Well, sort of.

As long as you are faster than optimum time, you are "clear". There is no advantage to being "right on" optimum time, and there is no advantage to being "lots faster" than optimum time. Think of the eventing "optimum time" as being the same as the jumper "time allowed".

(However, "closest to optimum time" on CROSS COUNTRY is used to break ties, so there IS an advantage to being close to optimum time there. And cross country has "speed faults" for going too fast, as well as faults for going too slowly. The course map should tell you both the "speed fault time" and the "optimum time". In order to get no faults, you need to be between those times.



OK, so have at it eventer peoples. Here's a clueless hunter chick who needs your knowledge. Any details you can give me would be great. Oh! And someone said the beginner novice at Flora Lea has no water!! BUMMER! That's the one thing I was really looking forward to!!! So what will the XC course be like at Flora Lea?

Thanks for the help!

Don't know anything about Flora Lea.

DO read the rule book and check the USEA web site. Also check the Area II web site
http://www.usea2.net/
especially the bit about registration requirements
http://www.usea2.net/pdf_files/2006AssociationRecording.pdf

bambam
Mar. 13, 2007, 04:22 PM
If you are going to do a recognized event, I think you should read the rules, rather than rely on us to point everything out.
Sorry :D but there are a ton of ways you can get eliminated just because you didn't know something, i.e. if your horse has boots on for dressage, you use a dressage whip beyond the permitted length, your spurs are too large or pointed up (although often the bit checkers will tell you this, they are not required too), if you use your whip more than 3 times for any single disobedience, if you jump without your medical armband on, etc.
Oh- and until I am riding in Rolex, I am not wearing white breeches (I wear beige) and my jacket is black- as long as it is legal and you are are not in a lycra bodysuit, nobody gives a crap about what you wear- and yes a vest is required for x-country and an approved helmet is required. You can do all 3 phases in a jumping saddle.
At BN there will be an optimum time, a speed fault time and a maximum time. You want to aim to finish between speed fault time and optimum and try to get as close to optimum as you can without going over it (and another way to get eliminated is to realize after your last fence that you are going to finish too fast and stop, walk or circle between the last jump and the finish flags).
The rules are on the USEA website which is www.useventing.com (http://www.useventing.com)
Edited to say that what I said about the 3 times is for x-country only. No speed fault time in stadium.

RugBug
Mar. 13, 2007, 04:25 PM
Oh and about that stadium stuff... I hear it's optimum time. But someone was telling me the optimum time is also the time allowed, so it's kindof like a Price is Right class, be the closest to the time without going over? Weird. Our Optimum Time classes have a optimum time and a time allowed, which would be a few seconds longer than the optimum.


Okay, I'm an HP, not an eventer, but I am surrounded by them at home so I'll take a little stab.

In stadium, there is a time allowed. You don't get anything for go under the time, but you will get faults for going over, which are added to your overall score. You also get points for rails, refusals, falls, etc. There is no advantage to going fast. Just go fast enough to be under the time but slow enough to be careful.

Oh, and have fun. :D

Edited because there was stadium confusion. Phew...at least there is not another rule to learn. :D

bornfreenowexpensive
Mar. 13, 2007, 04:26 PM
Flora Lea is a low key event. Beige is fine...that is what I wear cuz only really skinny twiggy girls look good in white IMO. Black or navy or grey coat would be fine. If I wear beige...I don't wear a white shirt but a cream/off white shirt.....but really NO ONE will care what you wear. Most people use stock ties but you can use a choke collar.

Borrow a vest from someone....but get your own medical arm band. (you can borrow the holder but fill out your own card). For stadium...most of us wear the same thing we wore for dressage (but you do need to wear a jacket again).

Braiding is optional....I typically don't braid below Prelim so unless he has an unrulely mane...you do not need to braid if you don't want to.

You should walk your x-c course and stadium course with your friend to show you the ropes. The stadium course should be ridden with more equitation type turns...not tight jump off jumper turns or huge hunter turns (flying changes don't matter....leaving the rails up and coming in under the opt. time do).

If it is cold, I usually wear a long sleve shirt and thin wind blocking type of jacket under my vest....but a bit will depend on how the vest fits you and what you can fit under the vest. If it hot...you still must wear a shirt with sleves...they can be short sleves but no tank tops.

Saddles...use what is comfortable. There will be many people in the same jump saddle for all three phases.

Don't forget the beer for when you are done (and/or before x-c).

Janet
Mar. 13, 2007, 04:33 PM
Optimum time is based on a consistent pace. I believe for you it will be around 250 meters per minute (fast trot slow canter). There is no "time allowed." The maximum time allowed before elimination is twice the optimum time.

Reed A BIT faster than that.

At Beginner Novice Cross country optimum time wil be somewhere between 300 and 350 meters per minute (check the omnibus listing). Speed faults start at420 mpm. For Show Jumping, optimum time will be based on 300 mpm.

ss3777
Mar. 13, 2007, 05:19 PM
Hi,

At my first event (recycled hunter rider) everyone told me not to worry about the time with stadium ( my guy has a nice big stride and loves the fences in a ring). So I went in and did this nice hunter course that I thought flowed wonderfully, nice changes etc. Well, the thing with stadium time faults that I misunderstood is that of course it is based on a specific track. For example when I took these nice big round corners I was way off the "track" and so even though I had a nice course and nice canter I had time penalties because "I got to the fences via China!". Stupid mistake on my part that cost me a ribbon but boy did I have fun and started my eventing career off with a big smile even if it was without a ribbon. I won't tell you about our ghastly dressage :)

Watch out, you are going to be converted! Go ahead drink the kool aid!

Risk-Averse Rider
Mar. 13, 2007, 05:39 PM
You'll notice that all the fences - in the warmup and on course - have little flags (or paper/plastic plates ;-) attached to the standards. The red flag is on the right side; the white flag is on the left side.

Red on right. - pound this into your brain.

Red on right.

Don't ever jump a fence unless the red flag is on your right side.

Even in the warmup.

Red on right.

You can get eliminated for jumping a fence backwards, even in warmup.

Red on right.

Red on right.

This is not your hunter warmup.

Red on right.

bip
Mar. 13, 2007, 05:51 PM
I am not sure what level you compete at in hunters, but if you are doing 3', BN is going to be a piece of cake. Not in a bad way, I mean that in a good way, like the fences will be low enough and dressage easy enough that you aren't overwhelmed by doing your regular effort PLUS a ton of new rules.

As far as turnout goes, you are going to be THRILLED at how easy it is compared to what you are used to! Eventing only has "legal" and "not legal", we don't have anything about "overall impression", so with a few exceptions whatever you are used to doing is probably within the rules.

I agree with reading the rule book yourself to figure out what exactly those few exceptions are, and I would also run through it with your friend and say, "OK, for dressage I want my tack to be this, this and this and my outfit to be this and this" and do that for all the phases.

And since we were all so nice in helping, make sure to take pictures and post them with an update once you're done :)

RugBug
Mar. 13, 2007, 06:00 PM
Red on right. - pound this into your brain.

Red on right.

Don't ever jump a fence unless the red flag is on your right side.

Even in the warmup.

Red on right.

You can get eliminated for jumping a fence backwards, even in warmup.

Red on right.

Red on right.

This is not your hunter warmup.

Red on right.


Heheee.... so true. I just went to a H/J schooling show at an event facility (Twin Rivers). My poor brain was in a tizzy because all of the standards have the little red/white markers on 'em and I JUST.CANNOT.keep them straight. 'Course, they technically didn't mean anything (and I don't even think they were set "red on right") but whenever I see them I freak a bit.

I also freak out about saluting in dressage. It feels VERY foreign to me...so If I have to do a dressage test, I practice...by the numbers:

1. Hand off reins and down to side
2. Head down
3. Head up
4. Hand back to reins

hopashore1
Mar. 13, 2007, 06:21 PM
Welcome! I agree...read the rule book! There are a thousand ways to get eliminated. A couple tips though....

1) Don't enter the dressage ring until the judge has sounded a bell, whistle, horn--whatever she has. Ask the dressage steward what the signal is for your ring. Also, there are going to be several rings. Make sure you know which one is yours! After the horse before you has exited the ring, the judge will be writing comments on their dressage test. I've never been to Flora Lea, but generally during that time you get to walk and trot around the outside perimeter of the ring to get your horse used to the judge's box, decorations, etc. When the judge rings the bell, you have a minute to get in the ring, so don't panic if you're on the other side of the ring.

2) Say "thank you" to as many volunteers as you can. Say it to the dressage judge after your test, and to any stewards who aren't busy. It's very much appreciated!! If you see someone have an awesome test or jumping round, don't be hesitant to congratulate them--that's how you make friends here!

3) Check where the flags are for all fences. Sometimes for water there's only a flag on the exit side. This means if your horse stops at the entrance to the water to peek, it won't count against you. Also make sure you know where the start and finish flags are for both stadium and cross country and make sure you get through them before pulling all the way up.

4) For XC, make sure you know what color your fence numbers are! That way even if you get a little lost you know what to look for. And whoever said "RED ON RIGHT" is to be your mantra is right on. If you're headed to a fence and red is not on your right, stop! The start and finish flags will also follow this rule, so don't ever stop thinking it!

5) If you have a mini-disaster in dressage (i.e., horse spooks at pile of horse poop. Horse leaps sideways and steps out of the ring. Rider hears whistle) and are eliminated, you can ask the T.D. (Technical Delegate) if you can continue your jumping. Your rounds won't count then, but if you're eliminated for a stupid mistake (pilot error in jumping, steps out of ring in dressage, etc.) you can generally continue.

6) Having said that, if you do hear a whistle COMING FROM YOUR JUDGE (not the one in the ring next to you--it can get confusing sometimes!) in dressage halt where you are. It may be as simple as the judge has the wrong test, or you may be off course.

denny
Mar. 13, 2007, 06:33 PM
Just have fun. Don`t sweat the small stuff like dressage, etc.
When you come flying through the x-c finish flags in one piece, you`ll know what all the fuss is about. It`s pure euphoria, and the more scared you are BEFORE the more joy you will feel AFTER!
All the rest is trivia.
(In my opinion)

LoveToJump
Mar. 13, 2007, 07:19 PM
You'll notice that all the fences - in the warmup and on course - have little flags (or paper/plastic plates ;-) attached to the standards. The red flag is on the right side; the white flag is on the left side.

Red on right. - pound this into your brain.

Red on right.

Don't ever jump a fence unless the red flag is on your right side.

Even in the warmup.

Red on right.

You can get eliminated for jumping a fence backwards, even in warmup.

Red on right.

Red on right.

This is not your hunter warmup.

Red on right.

OMG, that was hysterical! Thanks for the laugh. So true, so true.

RiverBendPol
Mar. 13, 2007, 07:56 PM
Denny, You ROCK. :)
When you comin' home? It is getting MUDDY and the air is getting that certain Spring Scent only born-and-bred-New Englanders know and love!
Greystone.....I LOVE your attitude. Have a blast. That is all that matters.:winkgrin:

GreystoneKC
Mar. 13, 2007, 08:24 PM
Wow! All I can think to say is, "More! More! More!" I have no problems reading the rule book, I know the H/J rules almost by heart because I'm training to be a judge, so I like reading it! But you guys are priceless, I can tell!

As a h/j rider, I've had an extensive junior career in hunters, jumpers, and eq, hunters and eq to 3'6" and jumpers to 4ft+, plus everything since then. I'm very comfortable up to 4'-4'3" when a jump's made out of rails! So yeah, the actual height is nothing. Well, except for the whole "I'm riding a 13.1h pony" and "the jumps don't come down" thing. For him, 2'6" is his tops with me riding. Without me, he jumps out of his field, so scope is not a problem! lol

OK, so here's what I'm thinking to wear... Dressage: light beige TS breeches, white shirt (I have a regular choker to go with that shirt and a white true-tie stock tie from my hunter shadbelly, which should I wear?), either my dark navy Marigold or old black Pytchley both of which fit great, black belt, black gloves, black field boots, and probably the GR8 (oh! Hold on, it has a light grey stripe!!! Is that no good since they say black or blue??). Should I just go with my old black CO hampton? XC: aforementioned TSs, long or short sleeve polo depending on weather, black belt, vest, and boots and stuff. Jumping: my TSs, probably my dark purpley-charchol jacket since it's cool and seems allowed with a lavender shirt, and rest of my usual attire. The sparkly GPA shouldn't be an issue here right? Yes, I am used to being very "trend" concious in the hunters... I'm a self-proclaimed fashion horse so I'm glad to hear it's not too tough to please these guys.

RED on RIGHT! We do the same thing in the jumpers, so I know this but I like the little saying and am going to use that to help teach my students! My friend is walking the course with me, so I'll have some guidance.

New questions:
1. Will there be different jump numbers on each jump? As if the same jump is used for different heights?
2. Whoa! You get eliminated if your horse spooks??? I probably don't have to worry about something like that, but wow!
3. So first whistle (or whatever) means GO, hearing another whistle means, odds are it's from another ring, if it's MY judge, HALT! ??
4. I braid myself. Is it worth it to do it? It just seems like it would look so much nicer for dressage.

I have a feeling there will be plenty of pictures! As word is spreading that I am going to do this, I think a fan club is forming! All of my students want to come see, and a bunch of friends. I wouldn't be shocked if my MOM and DAD actually came! LOL Everyone wants to see me do dressage because, well, if you knew me, you'd know how likely it is that, somewhere, hell just froze.

Oh, and I don't bring beer, but I might need a shock of tequila when all is said and done! So will my pony!

bornfreenowexpensive
Mar. 13, 2007, 08:47 PM
New questions:
1. Will there be different jump numbers on each jump? As if the same jump is used for different heights?

For x-c, go by color. So if BN and Novice share a x-c jump there will be two numbers (could be two 10s for example) but they will be different colors.



2. Whoa! You get eliminated if your horse spooks??? I probably don't have to worry about something like that, but wow!


only if they leave the dressage ring...if they spook but you keep all four feet with in the ring your score for that movement will suck but you will not be E....and you may still get a decent dressage score since the spook only effects the score for that movement and perhaps the collective marks.



3. So first whistle (or whatever) means GO, hearing another whistle means, odds are it's from another ring, if it's MY judge, HALT! ??

I wouldn't worry about this. But basically, your dressage judge will have some sound making...car horn, whistle, bell. When they ring the bell, you may enter the ring. You have a little bit of time so you do not need to rush immediately into the ring. If once you have started the test, you hear your judge make the same sound again, it means you have made an error of test. Stop and look at the judge (if you don't know what you did wrong) and they will tell you (usually it is if you make a big mistake....like forget to make a circle or go the wrong way).





4. I braid myself. Is it worth it to do it? It just seems like it would look so much nicer for dressage.


If you like to braid...go for it. I braid myself but my horses seem to hate it and I usually don't care. But it does look nice. Especially since he is a sale pony, if you have time I would braid since it will make the pictures look nice.




Oh, and I don't bring beer, but I might need a shock of tequila when all is said and done! So will my pony!


Tequila is good too!

basil's mom
Mar. 13, 2007, 09:16 PM
Always be polite to the ring stewards/ jump judges etc. they are all volunteers NOT paid staff. If your ride time is 8:03 be ready to go into the ring at 8:03, if they are yelling at you it is to save you from being eliminated. We eventers take this time of go stuff seriously.

Eventer13
Mar. 13, 2007, 09:23 PM
OK, so here's what I'm thinking to wear... Dressage: light beige TS breeches, white shirt (I have a regular choker to go with that shirt and a white true-tie stock tie from my hunter shadbelly, which should I wear?), either my dark navy Marigold or old black Pytchley both of which fit great, black belt, black gloves, black field boots, and probably the GR8 (oh! Hold on, it has a light grey stripe!!! Is that no good since they say black or blue??). Should I just go with my old black CO hampton? XC: aforementioned TSs, long or short sleeve polo depending on weather, black belt, vest, and boots and stuff. Jumping: my TSs, probably my dark purpley-charchol jacket since it's cool and seems allowed with a lavender shirt, and rest of my usual attire. The sparkly GPA shouldn't be an issue here right? Yes, I am used to being very "trend" concious in the hunters... I'm a self-proclaimed fashion horse so I'm glad to hear it's not too tough to please these guys.


I'd go with th true-tie stock, and the black coat for dressage (although nothing wrong with navy). XC you can get away with pretty much anything, as long as you have your vest and your medical armband (something I'm ALWAYS forgetting), stadium your attire seems fine--although I'd say the CO Hampton would be better for dressage and stadium.

RiverBendPol
Mar. 13, 2007, 10:19 PM
No colors in Show Jumping-do the white shirt and stock tie again. No colored saddle pads nor helmet covers-it is just tacky ;} Definately do the braids. Oh it'll be such fun. I wish I could come cheer you on. OH!!! Tell your fans not to breathe a WORD to you when you are competing. It can/will get you eliminated. Not a word!

criss
Mar. 13, 2007, 10:20 PM
When the judge blows the horn/rings the bell for you, you have 60 seconds from that moment to enter at A. It is nice if you turn to the judge, as you are walking around the outside waiting to enter, and at least nod to her to let her know you heard the bell ring. That way she knows you heard, but you can also use the 60 seconds (such a loooong time, really!) to prep your horse and get him ready to go in looking his best. Usually they will let you start walking down towards the outside of your ring as soon as the previous person halts and salutes at the end of his test, so you can then walk on a loose rein, trot, halt, reverse, etc, as long as you don't disturb the rider leaving the ring or the judge writing down her remarks on that rider. So you will be wandering around the outside of your ring, she will ring the bell, you will look at her and nod, then you will pick the horse up, give a few half-halts, and make a nice turn onto the center line to go in.

If you braid, it is advisable to unbraid before XC, so that if you have to grab mane you don't risk pulling out a whole chunk of it by grabbing a braid too hard.

I would wear the exact same thing (stock tie, black coat, tan breeches) for stadium as for dressage. You needn't fuss about your hairnet for stadium, though. My usual routine is, I wear the same stuff for dressage and stadium but different stuff for XC, while the horse wears the same stuff for the two jumping phases but different stuff (NO BOOTS!) for dressage.

And yes, when they give you a time, they mean it. If they are running ahead or behind, they usually announce it and try to generally spread the word. It is a courtesy to be ready to go before your scheduled time if they need you to (like, if someone riding multiple horses requests shuffling around to have more time). Ask the warmup steward when you get on if she expects any change to your ride time. If they're ready at your ride time and you're not there, you will likely be eliminated. If they're ready before your ride time and you're not, you have the right to make them wait if you need the time but may go ahead if you prefer.

RAyers
Mar. 13, 2007, 10:59 PM
A BIT faster than that.

At Beginner Novice Cross country optimum time wil be somewhere between 300 and 350 meters per minute (check the omnibus listing). Speed faults start at420 mpm. For Show Jumping, optimum time will be based on 300 mpm.

You are right. I tend to make myself think 250mpm because I usually let the ponies go at their own pace (if the horse feels comfortable) and get muy mucho speeding tickets (excessive speed penalties). Sorry for the mistake.

Reed

oldbutnotdead
Mar. 14, 2007, 12:10 AM
Alert - according to EV 134, a competitor has 45 seconds after the signal to enter the dressage arena, not 60 seconds as mentioned a previous post.

criss
Mar. 14, 2007, 12:24 AM
45! Okay, shows how long it's been since I've competed!!!

But 45 seconds is still quite a while.

EAlly
Mar. 14, 2007, 05:55 AM
I evented last year on a medium (12.3 1/2) at the 2'6-2'9ish level. It was great fun and pony loved it. I'm a just over 5' adult. She jumped around no problem despite having never seen the crazy coloured jumps in the stadium or a xc fence before.

For dressage I wore my navy grand prix coat, a show shirt (can't remember the colour) with embroidered collar, beige breeches, IRH, black gloves and field boots. Hair up in a net. I actually learned how to do dressage type braids as I only knew hunter buttons.

For stadium I wore the same clothes and hairnet, however I added her eskadrons and a matching pad. Here you do see some colour (ie jumper togs) in the stadium. The only thing you have to watch for are the distances in the combinations but my pony added no problem.

XC vest, armband of course, pony wore her eskies and I wore a burgandy shirt to go with my burgandy and navy helmet cover with my navy vest. She had no problem making the time and just loved galloping the fences.


Enjoy it, I sure did :)

PiedPiper
Mar. 14, 2007, 07:03 AM
Clothing wise- Stay simple and follow the rules. I wouldn't worry about changing alot between phases. A lot of shows you don't have alot of down time and the last thing (I) would want to worry about is my wardrobe.

Here in AreaII they move through things quite quickly and you go immediately from one jumping phase to the next. There is no downtime to change your outfit so be prepared that you COULD be told that you will be wearing your cross country gear in stadium.

If not I would use the time to walk the course(s) again if possible.

Good luck with everything and remember to have fun!

Hannahsmom
Mar. 14, 2007, 07:09 AM
Always be polite to the ring stewards/ jump judges etc. they are all volunteers NOT paid staff. If your ride time is 8:03 be ready to go into the ring at 8:03, if they are yelling at you it is to save you from being eliminated. We eventers take this time of go stuff seriously.

Can we repeat the above in capital letters? :) As a volunteer in the past as warmup steward or starter, this is a big change for some of the crossover disciplines. It's the best part about eventing, knowing what time you will 'go'.

Janet
Mar. 14, 2007, 07:29 AM
2. Whoa! You get eliminated if your horse spooks??? I probably don't have to worry about something like that, but wow! No. You would be eliminated if your horse put all 4 feet outside the dressage ring (e.g., BECAUSE of a spook).

Janet
Mar. 14, 2007, 08:43 AM
For him, 2'6" is his tops with me riding. BN is 2'9".

Janet
Mar. 14, 2007, 08:52 AM
probably the GR8 (oh! Hold on, it has a light grey stripe!!! Is that no good since they say black or blue??). The light grey stripe should not be a problem.

Janet
Mar. 14, 2007, 08:57 AM
Jumping: my TSs, probably my dark purpley-charchol jacket since it's cool and seems allowed with a lavender shirt, and rest of my usual attire. The lavendar shirt is legal- but you will probably be the only one not wearing a white or cream short. If that matters to you...

Muck r us
Mar. 14, 2007, 09:19 AM
With apologies to Lance Armstrong:

"Eventing: It isn't about the clothes"

kcrubin
Mar. 14, 2007, 09:19 AM
Have fun - I can't wait to hear your report back at the end! Don't hesitate to ask questions of other folks as long as you aren't on course!

GreystoneKC
Mar. 14, 2007, 09:39 AM
Thanks everyone! This is great!
I'm surprised to hear you guys don't have more fun with your stadium clothes, lol. If the times get close, as it seems they might, I'll prolly just wear my dressage stuff for stadium, but I'd love to have the time to change and spice up the ring with a little royal purple jacket lining!! I mean, come on, I'll already be rocking a blingy helmet! LOL In stadium, I wouldn't mind being a bit different, since that's my thing, but in dressage and XC, I really don't want to stand out. I might stand out on my own for different reasons!!!!

Ok soooo... the new consensuses are:
- GR8 with grey is OK
- Try not to use the dressage arena as a schooling jump and we should be just fine.
- Don't worry so much about looking good (damn, I don't think I can manage that!)
- My jumps are 2'9", not 2'6" and I seriously better practice not ducking.
- Time of go - a really creepy thing to me, who's used to "not before noon" quickly turning into 4PM, oops, no, make that 5:30PM. Don't mess with it, be there early - and with a smile. :-D
- Love volunteers! (this shouldn't be too difficult considering my philosophy at h/j shows - kiss up to the secretaries and ring gate crew, they're overworked and under paid and can make your life a living hell if you piss them off!) LOL


Oh and I seriously just CAN'T wear a stock tie in Stadium.
It's against my religion!
;-)

GreystoneKC
Mar. 14, 2007, 10:09 AM
Also, if anyone wants to see the Bandito in his "before" pics, go here: http://community.webshots.com/album/547457294sAauBI. Let me know if that works. Then I'll put up "after" pics from the event!

Risk-Averse Rider
Mar. 14, 2007, 10:42 AM
If you have H/J friends coming to cheer you on, bring a roll of duct tape to keep them quiet ;-)

Seriously - they CANNOT say anything to you while you are on course that could be construed as "unauthorized assistance". None of this "outside rein!" or "get your leg on!" or "go to the red & white!!" stuff that seems to abound at H/J shows.

Not a word.

Nada.

Make them practice saying "WaHOOOO!", and only AFTER you have cleared a fence. Give them cue cards, if you have to. Let's see...

"WaHOOOO!!!!"
"YEEEhaaaaaaw!!!!!!!!'
"You go, girl!" <--- That's probably as specific as they should get
"Wooo-hooooooo!!!!"
"You ROCK!!!"


Also, something for you to remember:

At every level in eventing, but ESPECIALLY at the lower levels, it ain't over 'til it's over. You can have an ooky dressage test, *possibly* even a stop on x-c (probably not, but you never know), and still end up in the ribbons. Maybe even win!

Carnage happens.

(Of course, sometimes it happens to you, but we won't talk about that ;-)

So my point is: Keep riding. Never give up.

pharmgirl
Mar. 14, 2007, 10:47 AM
Janet mentioned that the height was 2'9"- I guess I think of it more as 2'7" since that is the height listed, but listed under the "max height at highest point" for a spread fence is 2'9". I guess I just feel better thinking of it as closer to 2'6" ;) If you school a little higher than what you would compete, that would help IMHO.

I apologize if someone mentioned this already, but if you have time and there is one not far from you before you compete (edited to say I realize Flora Lea is in April so you might not be able to), I recommend going to an event or two and just watch. You can learn a lot about what people wear, how things flow, etc. just by going and observing. And, people are usually very helpful (one thing that's great about eventers!) and almost anyone would be willing to answer questions if you asked them.

VCT
Mar. 14, 2007, 11:08 AM
OMG
Bandito is adorable! :D

NeverTime
Mar. 14, 2007, 11:43 AM
You've got a great attitude and an adorable pony with a face that says he'll take to this eventing thing like a duck to water. Have a blast and ENJOY the ride times -- they're a true luxury of eventing!!:yes:
Can't wait to see the 'after' report and photos!

oldbutnotdead
Mar. 14, 2007, 02:51 PM
Can't believe I forgot to welcome you!

Went to my first event years ago and easily made some great friends! Okay, so I lured them into my camp with great food. Eventers are fun - welcome!

LisaB
Mar. 14, 2007, 02:58 PM
Oh man! Are we going to love your pony!
What I always tell my h/j friends: YOU CAN TROT THE COURSE!
Yep, I've trotted many a BN courses and still made the time.
Just take your time and jump each jump, one at a time. Just get there, get over it, go on to the next one.
You may find memorizing all 3 tests a little daunting. Of course memorize them. But before each phase, go in your head about that particular course and visualize each movement or each jump. One phase at a time, one jump at a time.
And about Flora Lea. There are some AR2 adult riders going. You should try to hook up with them. Then we KNOW we have you on the dark side.

GreystoneKC
Mar. 14, 2007, 03:11 PM
Um, what are AR2 adult riders? Remember, I'm really clueless peoples.

Seriously, if I tried to trot 2'7"+ with my 13.1h pony, then I REALLY know we'd die!!! LOL I think I'll canter a bit, thanks.

I think we're going to have a picnic! LOL

Risk-Averse, that HAD to be the funniest thing I have ever read!!!!!! Thanks for the advice!!!

LisaB
Mar. 14, 2007, 04:05 PM
You are in Area 2. Like the Zones in h/j land. It consists of NJ, PA, VA, MD, DE, AND NC. There's a ghastly group of us middle aged adrenalin junkies who appear at every event. We generally have a good time while maintaining a serious demeanor trying to ride the perfect dressage test and whooping it up on x-c. If you stay in eventer land, you will probably get to know the northerners.
On here, we have among others, cjmicro, yveventer, canterlope (the other kind of fruit), riverpup, colliemom ...
But we are a membership that puts on various clinics and recognized events. If you are interested, go to www.usea2.net and there's a spot somewhere there for the adult riders.
One thing you always find at events is help. Just ask ANYONE, I mean ANYONE and they will be there.

Janet
Mar. 14, 2007, 04:33 PM
Janet mentioned that the height was 2'9"- I guess I think of it more as 2'7" since that is the height listed, but listed under the "max height at highest point" for a spread fence is 2'9". I guess I just feel better thinking of it as closer to 2'6" ;) If you school a little higher than what you would compete, that would help IMHO. Yes, you are right, it is 2'7". I was mis-remembering.

Apologies.

RiverBendPol
Mar. 14, 2007, 04:59 PM
Always remember, "a cow can jump a meter from a stand-still".:cool:

Shortstroke
Mar. 14, 2007, 05:14 PM
Having also come from the hunters, I found the hardest things to remember are the bit check (prior to dressage) and the arm band. There have been a lot of posts about the arm band but not about the bit check. You do it as you enter the dressage warm-up ring and they will put a sticker on your number or your boot.

RugBug
Mar. 14, 2007, 05:27 PM
Always remember, "a cow can jump a meter from a stand-still".:cool:

:lol: That's good to know. So when my horse is being cow-ish, there's really no problem. :winkgrin: :lol:

Risk-Averse Rider
Mar. 14, 2007, 06:04 PM
Risk-Averse, that HAD to be the funniest thing I have ever read!!!!!! Thanks for the advice!!!You're welcome - and welcome to The Dark Side ;-)

Unfortunately, the "it ain't over 'til it's over" thing isn't always fun while it's happening. This past Sunday, I dragged Prozac Pony to our first eventing-esque outing since we garnered the Big 'E' in stadium at Galway in January 2006 (purely my brain-free fault). For a variety of reasons that would sound too much like sniveling if I listed them, we haven't been jumping much since May '06. (Like, 5 or 6 lessons, and one 2' - 2'3" jumper show the previous weekend.) So we entered the Chicken Little Verticals class. Dressage was Beginner Novice test B, and then we faced a jumping course of 13 fences over rolling terrain, 680 meters, with a water option, max height a towering 2', no oxers. The first fence (which was also the last fence) was a crossrail.

Mind you, I've been riding this horse since he was 6, and he's now 15. We've competed in recognized shows at BN, and even gotten a ribbon or two (small classes... but we DID get ribbons!). So this should have been the proverbial piece of cake. We should have been able to phone in our jumping round.

The other adults were all riding green beans. After dressage, we were 5th out of 7 with a 46.32 - impressive, huh? But that was okay. Dressage has never been our strong suit. I knew we would SMOKE that jumping course. We'd been schooling over that course with the fences set at a solid 2'3", with some oxers, even. And the optimum time was a leisurely 275 mpm.

Well... let's see... we ended up pulling a rail (yes, pulling a rail at 2') AND coming in 1 second over time. And this was after a full-out dash over the finish line because I knew the time would be close.

Mindful of Denny Emerson's admonition about limiting oneself to one hour of private self-pitying sniveling, I sniffled my way back to the trailer to tend to Prozac Pony's needs. When I thought that I could face the world again with some degree of civility, I went back to watch the rest of the show - only to discover that we had WON!!! Turns out only 4 of us had actually made it around the course. One was eliminated for taking too long, and the other two had each had a refusal plus mega time penalties that more than made up for our less than stellar dressage score (as in, their time penalties exceeded our dressage score!).

So... it's a good thing I didn't give up when we pulled that rail, isn't it?

Ya just never know...

Now, you'll be at a recognized show, which is a far cry from a local schooling combined test, but... ya still never know. I have a friend who went from being just out of the ribbons to 2nd in Prelim as rider after rider crashed through the stadium course. My trainer was telling me about an event she was at where the winner of the Intermediate division was the ONLY rider who finished.

Carnage happens.

(But never to first-time eventers on cute spotted ponies. That's one of the unwritten rules of eventing.)

bornfreenowexpensive
Mar. 14, 2007, 06:11 PM
Also, if anyone wants to see the Bandito in his "before" pics, go here: http://community.webshots.com/album/547457294sAauBI. Let me know if that works. Then I'll put up "after" pics from the event!


He is too cute...you will have a blast.

DMK
Mar. 14, 2007, 06:58 PM
...and I seriously better practice not ducking...

Oh god no. Really, you haven't lived until you have had Denny damn near pass out from yelling (until he was hoarse) "Don't duck, for the love of all things holy, stop duuuuuucccccckkkkkkkiiiing! *gasp* wheeeze, whimper...."

Really, if you can incorporate that into your experience, I think that will top it off perfectly. :D :D :D

CWO
Mar. 14, 2007, 07:59 PM
Flora Lea runs cross country before stadium (or has in the past).

I've never had a sticker put on my number or boot after having my bit checked! Who does that?? EEEEWWW!

I'm an AR2 Adult Rider and I plan on being there doing BN. That is, unless we get torrential rains like last spring. In that case, I'm too old for that stuff. :lol: I'm one of the few fair weather eventers. Ok, if it started to rain while I was at an event, I'd surely finish. Just not keen on going after torrential rains the day before and the day of the event.

I have a beautiful (:eek: ) horse van that has a bright red cab and John Deere green horse box. You can't miss me. Say hi!

You'll have fun.

horseguy
Mar. 14, 2007, 09:50 PM
It’s a riot to read these posts. More than half are about what to wear. Congratulations to the poster who pointed out that red is on the right, far more important than the consequences of a gray stripe on a helmet.

I admit only scanning, but I do not believe a I saw a recommendation to actually ride a correct Balanced Seat instead of the flat even footing/jumps fall down Hunter/Jumper Seat.

Get some proper lessons, go schooling at least a dozen times and learn how to ride safely outside an arena. Personally if I were in your shoes, I’d be scared to death about using a crest release. All you need is a plastic bag blowing across the course and quick halt that throws you headlong into a solid jump or the ground. Your H/J pro status may not be enough to keep you out of a hospital, and your snob status won’t be much use either. Think about this when you fill out you medical card.

breakthru
Mar. 14, 2007, 11:58 PM
horseguy-- while you may have useful advice, from the way I'm reading it, your post seems more snarky than helpful. You know, catching more flies with honey than vinegar and all. From what has been demonstrated here, the original poster has a great attitude and is open to suggestions-- speculation about her riding style (however it may or may not be justified) seems inappropriate here (that is, without having seen her ride, which I assume you have not). I understand your overall campaign, but this particular thread doesn't seem to be the most effective tool to get your message across.

Original poster-- have fun, and as another poster said, drink the kool aid!

criss
Mar. 15, 2007, 12:46 AM
That pony is CUUUUTE!!!

He doesn't look like he thinks 2'9" would be any kind of stretch. As long as you don't get rattled and duck instead of sitting back, he'll do fine. :)

I always like to think of someone putting a hand on my collar and pulling my behind down towards the seat of my saddle as I approach and go over XC fences, especially ones downhill or with any drop (though I imagine a minimum of this on any BN course). It not only helps me stay close to the saddle and not jump ahead, but it lifts and opens my shoulders. It feels kinda like jumping without reins with your arms out to the side.

That said, I truly think you will have no problems, I only mention my method of not ducking because you are worried about it. :)

GreystoneKC
Mar. 15, 2007, 10:04 AM
Wow.
Breakthru, "snarky" was a great word to use. I was thinking something much more worthy of symbols like $, %, *, and @!!!

I'm not big on high horses, HorseGuy, in case you didn't notice the whole riding a 13.1h pony while you were "scanning". So don't worry about me. I'm sure I'll live. And if I don't, I'll make sure it's me and not my pony that dies. ;-) But you don't seem to be the kinda guy who can take a joke, so I guess there's no point in letting you know that there's a reason I'm more worried about my attire than my riding skills...

Thanks guys for keeping it fun and light in here. LOL Can't wait to meet you guys that will be there. Don't be afraid to say hi! I may not know anyone, but I have a feeling I'll stick out like a sore thumb!

bip
Mar. 15, 2007, 10:16 AM
Horseguy is totally off base. The OP is a very accomplished rider and we are talking BN here. The most challenging thing she might face is a slight drop or an upbank. If she has done big eq or any of the more interesting jumper classes, she has done sunken roads (which they call something else that's not coming to me at the moment) and banks. The terrain is not Rolex. She can ride all of that in her hunter seat for 6 minutes of xcty .... and then she'll probably go clean Horseguy's clock in stadium, lol :)

LisaB
Mar. 15, 2007, 10:23 AM
The good a-rated hunter princesses can outride most of the event riders that I've seen. And I've seen A LOT. Now the b and c rated H.P.'s. Well, they ride completely different than the good 'real' hunter riders. Guess why George Morris has coached the eventing team? Hello?

eventmom
Mar. 15, 2007, 10:32 AM
horseguy, I want to you know I am so in your camp! You guys can say all you want but a picture speaks a thousand words. Did you see how she lays on that poor pony's neck over the fence?
And the clothes thing.... I wanted to say something, but horseguy beat me to it! Who cares what color you wear? Go ahead, if it feels good, I am sure the nearest tack shop will be happy to sell you any color of shirt, and breaches, and helmet, and ....... you like. Oh, and don't forget the dressage saddle! :eek: :eek: :eek:

RugBug
Mar. 15, 2007, 11:32 AM
Why is it when I read horseguy's posts all I see is "blah, blah, blah, we're superior, blah, blah, blah?"

LisaB
Mar. 15, 2007, 11:40 AM
Just print out Denny's comments and close this thread out! We are generally not the !@#$^ snarky type but we seemed to have brought them out from under the bridge. I apologize on behalf of the eventing community.

PiedPiper
Mar. 15, 2007, 11:59 AM
Lisa-

I think that other than horseguy this really hasn't been snarky. I do think, as crass as his presentation is, he does have some valid general points.

I know I did think, when reading this, that it is probably a good idea to make sure you have a few lessons in cross country riding before doing it but then I also weigh out that BN is pretty easy for a rider of decent ability from multiple areas. But some jumping styles will lead you in for a world of hurt if done on rolling terrian. The complexities of eventing do need to be recognized before one participates.

Unfortunately due to the poor taste of horseguy's deliver his valid points were lost.

And if we are going to argue the comparision of higher tiered riders in each sport I would take an upper level eventer, as a more rounded "better" rider, than a hunter rider. Just my opinion.

RugBug
Mar. 15, 2007, 12:26 PM
I think that other than horseguy this really hasn't been snarky. I do think, as crass as his presentation is, he does have some valid general points.


Except that he seems to think the crest release is evil incarnate and yet you see, I would venture to be so bold as to say a majority of eventers using a crest release in stadium...and a VERY large number using it on XC. ('Course, you also see a lot of mouth surfing as well, and a few correctly done autos, more as you move up the levels.)

And a correct hunter seat is "balanced" and useful for riding anywhere.

hb
Mar. 15, 2007, 12:32 PM
sunken roads (which they call something else that's not coming to me at the moment)

grob?

horseguy
Mar. 15, 2007, 12:37 PM
Some may offer a defense for superficial fashion over safety, but in spite of the creative language, commitment to unconsciousness, and other childish patterns, the fact remains that there are sports with mortality rates and those without. As eventing moves toward just another commercial specialty, with the vast majority of participants riding at the lower levels, it is not surprising that we see the influx of the kinds of attitudes so common in segments like Hunter/Jumpers.

The fact is a spoiled entitle brat is a spoiled entitled brat in a show ring or on an event course. I realize this fact disturbs some, but personally I do not care. I’m interested in the riders who what to really ride, the ones that don’t need the affirmation of the right clothes, the trendy equipment, or the flashy horse. So if I have offended you, simply consider that I am not addressing you, because I am not. I don’t waste my time on brats. If I have not offended you please consider that you are the future hope of equestrian sport. There exists a tradition of riding that is centuries old, one of true horsemanship. This tradition has no interest in trends, self importance and glory beyond that of the horse’s performance. It is about substance. In the final analysis brats lack substance and therefore they cannot continue the tradition of excellence I horsemanship. They are therefore useless to equestrian sport, and everyone but themselves.

I hope I make myself clear.

bip
Mar. 15, 2007, 12:40 PM
grob?

That's the one. I couldn't remember if it was grob or grog, and in the few seconds I devoted to it, google wasn't much help. Thanks for helping me sleep tonight, lol (even 2 hours later, it was still bothering me that I couldn't remember!)

bip
Mar. 15, 2007, 12:42 PM
I hope I make myself clear.

Crystal. You hate to lose to someone better dressed than you from a sport you consider inferior to your own. We get it.

RugBug
Mar. 15, 2007, 01:00 PM
So if I have offended you, simply consider that I am not addressing you, because I am not. I don’t waste my time on brats.

OMG. You are a piece of work. You really need to get over yourself.

I'd personally rather be useless to equestrian sports than be an obnoxious human being full of self-importance, which for something you say you have no use for you certainly have in spades.

bussgirl
Mar. 15, 2007, 01:06 PM
Horseguy,
You really embody what is wrong with the sport by ASSuming she is a "brat" when she came to this forum for assisstance:mad: . At what point did she become unworthy of our help?!

To the OP - I hope you can tell by the many kind and helpful posts that this guy does NOT reflect the typical event rider. Have a blast at Flora Lea - and ask any one of us for help!:D

Risk-Averse Rider
Mar. 15, 2007, 01:57 PM
('Course, you also see a lot of mouth surfing as well, and a few correctly done autos, more as you move up the levels.)MOUTH SURFING!!! Loff it.

I've always called it "waterskiing on their faces" when I've done it :-(

But I think I may just have to change to "mouth surfing".

RAyers
Mar. 15, 2007, 02:15 PM
Ah, hum, as a former h/j person, I do take exception with horsguy's generalizations, although he does have a point. There are a few things I wished I knew when I started so I did not lawn dart as regularly as I did. One thing I can say is that a 4' oxer is less intimidating than a 3'3" stone wall.

Anywho, let's sum up:

1) HAVE FUN!
2) Wear about anything (heck I wear a GPA in my dressage) within reason.
3) Red on right.
4) You can trot the course.

To translate horseguy's intentions,

5) Try to keep your head up and not come out of the saddle (less breakover) so much when you are on XC.

GreystoneKC, folks like you are what keep the sport growing so come, have fun, be careful and pay attention. Yes, you will stick out like a sore thumb but we do at times. Just remember, there are those that go swimming in the water fence and those who say they never have.

Reed

NMK
Mar. 15, 2007, 03:59 PM
Be sure you have one before you go, you cannot borrow one (well you can borrow the plastic and sleeve attachment) but you need one filled out with your personal information. You will need this xc and stadium to jump. I need it in the dressage ring, but that's another story...

Finish flags...you know this from jumpers, just watch for them xc and stadium, be sure you go through red on right.

Red on right always, every fence, everywhere.

Stadium may be wheeled more like a jumper course than a hunter course.

Wear your number on your horse while he's out of his stall (on halter if grazing, on bridle if riding).

Never undo your chin strap until you're off.

Ask if you don't know something. Eventers are helpful folks.

Have fun, get some wind in your lungs, enjoy.

Nancy

SimpleSimon
Mar. 15, 2007, 04:17 PM
Who cares what color you wear? Go ahead, if it feels good, I am sure the nearest tack shop will be happy to sell you any color of shirt, and breaches, and helmet, and ....... you like.

Those that enforce the rulebook care what color clothing you wear. It is a valid question that the OP asked as she is trying to follow the rules.



Beige britches are totally fine, with a black coat or a navy coat or a conservative tweed or dark coat of any color (though these are not seen too often). Your helmet must be navy or black (though people use the ones with the charcoal stripe). Here are the rules:

DRESSAGE TEST.
▲ a. Tests and Horse Trials (Beginner Novice through Preliminary)—Hunt Cap—black or dark blue; Coat—dark color or tweed, tail coats are not permitted; Shirt—white or light color, with stock and pin, or choker, or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white; Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, fi eld, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps and/or half-chaps are not allowed. BOD 1/15/06 Effective 12/1/06
CROSS-COUNTRY TEST. Light-weight clothing is appropriate for this Test, a shirt (any color) with sleeves must be worn. Protective Headgear in accordance with paragraph 1 above. This headgear may be any color. Britches or jodhpurs may be any color; Gloves (if worn) may be any color; Boots—black, brown, fi eld, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps or half-chaps are
not allowed. BOD 1/15/06 Effective 12/1/06
▲ 7. JUMPING TEST. Hunting dress or uniform. Protective headgear, with chin harness, designed expressly for equestrian use in accordance with paragraph 1 above. Hat covers other than solid black or dark blue are not allowed. Coat—dark color or tweed (if Novice through prelim.) Shirt—stock with pin, choker or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white; Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, field, or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps
or half-chaps are not allowed. Member of armed and police forces, as in EV113.5.b.

WindWillowStable
Mar. 15, 2007, 04:34 PM
Eventmom I have always said eventers are more welcoming and supportive than any other horse sport, but you apparently are neither of those!

This is someone who wants to try out eventing and all you can say is "did you see the way she lays on that ponys neck?". How would you feel if you went to a hunter/jumper show and had them make rude comments about your riding, because we definitely all ride differently. If you want to make a comment on anyones riding ability, then at least learn how to give positive advice and not stuck up advice (which is how you sounded).

I don't think it is all out of line for her to wonder what she should wear and what saddle she would ride in.....some people like to dress for the party and look the part, not to mention the fun of eventing is getting to dress in youir colors on cross country. It's very intimidating to make a move from one area of riding to another, because you don't know what to expect. I think it's great that she is making an effot to learn about our sport, even if it is what to wear.

WindWillowStable
Mar. 15, 2007, 04:39 PM
And horseguy, you are the one that seems like the brat!

eventmom
Mar. 15, 2007, 04:40 PM
Simple simon. Of course it matters what color in that context. I was sarcastically referring to the h/j practice of discussing which shade of tan best brings out their horses highlights! It strikes me that she is bringing her h/j value system to this forum.

eventmom
Mar. 15, 2007, 04:42 PM
windwillowstable, horseguy was concerned for her safety!

Jazzy Lady
Mar. 15, 2007, 04:45 PM
See the thing is, anyone can generalize about a rider in a picture of time. You can look at pics of ALL the pros and I'm sure there is bad ones that you can pick apart, but they are all excellent riders. One picture doesn't prove what type of rider a person is.

Hunter is a different style than eventing. She sounds like a knowledgable girl. Most of the intelligent riders that I have known know that there is a difference between a manicured ring and a feild with solid jumps. It's not rocket science, I'm sure the OP can figure it out without you jumping all over her.

To the OP, I'm with A LOT of others who say ignore them, ride safe, remember the rules, do not hesitate to pull up and call it a day if it isn't working out for ya safely and HAVE A BLAST! ;)

SimpleSimon
Mar. 15, 2007, 04:47 PM
Simple simon. Of course it matters what color in that context. I was sarcastically referring to the h/j practice of discussing which shade of tan best brings out their horses highlights! It strikes me that she is bringing her h/j value system to this forum.


Funny, it struck me that she was trying to find out what the rules were regarding what she could wear and trying to have some fun at the same time. From my perspective there is no harm in that.

Guess it is all in how you choose to interpret it.

eventmom
Mar. 15, 2007, 04:53 PM
jazzlady, I absolutly agree with you. I would never have said that about a child, or about someone who is learning to ride. But this is a woman who is well respected in h/j. She has been told by her peers that this is an appropriate way to ride, and infact she has been well rewarded for it. So, horseguy tells her it's not safe crosscountry and everyone jumps all over him. I was just defending him and telling him that I support his view. I am sure she can handle being picked at a bit, as it is a style of riding that has been supported by a whole industry. Look in any magazine and you will see, they actually think they look good like that :eek: Even better, go to a h/j barn web site and very good chance that will be the biggest picture on the front page!

Jazzy Lady
Mar. 15, 2007, 05:01 PM
Eventmom. I used to be a hunter. I live with one! I know what the "style" is. What I am saying is this is what her "hunter" pictures are depicting. We have not seen her ride out of the ring, we've only seen two pictures. How are we to know anything about her?

The "brat" attacks that Horseguy was saying don't sound like he's too concerned about her safety. There are other ways to go about things. Horseguy showed VERY poor form in his posts. The riders depicted on his website are not perfect riders. They were torn up on here a little while ago by someone else who was being cruel. He and many others defended him and his students or whomever was in the pictures. Does having a stone cast at you mean you can turn around and cast it at someone else?

I care about what I wear at events. I like to be well turned out. I like to be appropriately attired and I like to be within the rules. Does that too make me a brat?

RugBug
Mar. 15, 2007, 05:02 PM
jazzlady, I absolutly agree with you. I would never have said that about a child, or about someone who is learning to ride. But this is a woman who is well respected in h/j. She has been told by her peers that this is an appropriate way to ride, and infact she has been well rewarded for it. So, horseguy tells her it's not safe crosscountry and everyone jumps all over him. I was just defending him and telling him that I support his view. I am sure she can handle being picked at a bit, as it is a style of riding that has been supported by a whole industry. Look in any magazine and you will see, they actually think they look good like that :eek: Even better, go to a h/j barn web site and very good chance that will be the biggest picture on the front page!

eventmom, do you want me to go find all the scary ass pictures of event riders that I come across? It's not a hard task. It is not horseguy's responsibility to "be concerned for her safety." I'm sure she'll be just fine. If she ducks too much, she'll quickly find out that it's not a good idea, especially being on a medium pony.

And I will say that I tend to have a ducking problem, but you know what, I'm not unsafe. There's even a video of me riding in the H/J forum right now. Go watch it....I don't look like I'm ducking...but still frame photos would prove otherwise. Oh, and I'm doing a dreaded crest release...and my horse is oh so out of control. The rare chance I get to go cross country, I change my ride...a bit. It's not hard to do.

RAyers was polite and gave a good tip (about keeping her head up and to not breakover quite so much)...one that was phrased politely and one that is much easier to digest than horseguy's vitriol.

bip
Mar. 15, 2007, 05:09 PM
Simple simon. Of course it matters what color in that context. I was sarcastically referring to the h/j practice of discussing which shade of tan best brings out their horses highlights! It strikes me that she is bringing her h/j value system to this forum.

Duh! We all take our paradigms around with us. In fact, the whole reason she was asking is because she knows she doesn't know our value system and she wants to know.

eventmom
Mar. 15, 2007, 05:27 PM
rugbug, we all make mistakes. There are scarey pictures of even the most accomplished riders because as jazzlady said, "it is a moment in time". However, I doubt that the trainers behind these scarey pictures are actually saying "great job, thats what I'm looking for"! I am sure that some bad trainers are saying that, and yes even event trainers :eek: but, and I say a big BUT, there is not a whole industry supporting this unsafe behavior!
that said, I do humbly appologize for offending anyone. I would love to be the first one at the gate to encourage this woman to have a nice ride! And oh how I love the kindness and encouragement of eventers. Sometimes, honesty is a good policy though, but maybe I picked the wrong time. I just read this lady a little differently than the rest of you all I guess.
It's been fun but going out to dinner with my man!

horseguy
Mar. 15, 2007, 05:56 PM
Eventmom, while I appreciate the good intention of your defense of my posts, I’d like to suggest that educating children who have been reared under the misguided notion that self esteem is more important than character is a waste of time. As you can see, all you will get in the way of responses is their typical compulsive self importance born out of entitlement. These personalities live in a seamless self-contained reality that makes them immune to reason.

It is far better to spend your energy on the riders who’s understanding of sport goes beyond their own narcissistic experience. These are the quiet riders who diligently work their horses in a disciplined manner, and enjoy the hard work as much or more as getting in front of a crowd at a competition. This is often a quiet lot, intimidated by the overgrown egos of their contemporaries. Nonetheless these quite riders are the core of equestrian sport in its true sense. They most often do not see themselves as the foundation of their sport, but their honest work ethic and serious commitment to optimum performance places them squarely at the center of real horsemanship.

It usually takes these real horsemen (term inclusive of women) many years to realize that they possess the substance that drives equestrian sport. With time the flashy brats of their youth go by the way, and these real riders discover as adults that riding is at their core. They may not have been bankrolled like many of their teen counterparts, but somehow they took away from their early years of riding a love of equestrian sport that went beyond their own personal riding experience.

I know the young riders of substance are reading this, and I understand why they are keeping quite. Life is difficult enough without confronting the princesses. Why bother? I agree, don’t bother. Just keep on with your work and know that someday most the self important loud mouths will get tired of the work and/or lose the support of their parent’s checkbook, and most will simply disappear into the past.

RugBug
Mar. 15, 2007, 05:58 PM
rugbug, we all make mistakes. There are scarey pictures of even the most accomplished riders because as jazzlady said, "it is a moment in time".

Yep. Pictures are a moment in time. But my point is, watch some video of a confirmed ducker and occassional jump-ahead-er (when I get nervous...which is the last thing I should do) and then look at the stills. 10 to 1 the stills are interesting (frightening, scary, show off all the bad points) and the video is much more pleasant looking.



However, I doubt that the trainers behind these scarey pictures are actually saying "great job, thats what I'm looking for"!

I'm not so sure that's occuring in the H/J industry either. If you find a trainer who advocates jumping ahead and ducking, knee pinching, etc...you're looking at a trainer who knows nothing. Properly executed Hunt Seat Equitation is useful in a variety of situations including the hunt field (harrier than a cross country course, yes?) and the show ring.

BTW, hope you had a nice dinner. :yes:

RiverBendPol
Mar. 15, 2007, 06:32 PM
Good GRIEF!!! How did this thread become such a train wreck in one day???:eek: Come on, Kids, act like grown-ups, OK? No need to run around anonymously bashing people. Jeekers.

RugBug
Mar. 15, 2007, 06:48 PM
No need to run around anonymously bashing people. Jeekers.

I think that's back-handedly bashing people. :winkgrin: I think it's funny. Either myself or Greystone (and hunters in general) has been called: a flashy brat, a child, misguided, of faulty character, complusive, self-important, entitled, immune to reason, narcissistic, undisciplined, lazy, in possession of an overgrown ego, motivated by competition, lacking commitment, non-horsemen, lacking substance, a princess, a loud mouth, supported/dependent on our paren'ts checkbook or someone else's bankroll.

Did I miss any? :lol:

eventmom
Mar. 15, 2007, 07:52 PM
Rugbug :lol: so sorry!!!
anyway, if h/j people aren't advocating this position, then why do they prominently display it on magazine covers, internet sites, etc....
and btw, dinner was awesome!!! prime rib with key lime pie for desert yummm, and amazing company none the less! I have a great husband:D

PiedPiper
Mar. 15, 2007, 08:40 PM
Except that he seems to think the crest release is evil incarnate and yet you see, I would venture to be so bold as to say a majority of eventers using a crest release in stadium...and a VERY large number using it on XC. ('Course, you also see a lot of mouth surfing as well, and a few correctly done autos, more as you move up the levels.)

And a correct hunter seat is "balanced" and useful for riding anywhere.

I do agree and thusly did not comment on the crest release. There are many top riders who do suggest, at times, for the automatic release, and I don't see a problem with it. I think the automatic is ideal but grabbing a little mane is always back up! :D Shoot can't say I do a perfect auto release, look at my profile. :lol: But it is something I do strive to do.

I don't understand the negativity here though. Come on we are eventers! We don't get snarky, we're too high on adrenaline from our last near death experience for that! :cool:

Mayaty02
Mar. 15, 2007, 09:31 PM
This is so entertaning...as a confirmed H/J rider (no not a "princess") and a former pony clubber who has dabbled in eventing, hunting and dressage. I am pretty sure you can rest assured that the OP will ride the cross country course much different than in a ring. It's not anyone's place, except or trainer or friend, to offer derogatory advice. And BTW when you confirmed eventing "gods" come over the H/J forum, what are the questions always about..."what do I wear?"...

Karosel
Mar. 15, 2007, 10:24 PM
Rugbug :lol: so sorry!!!
anyway, if h/j people aren't advocating this position, then why do they prominently display it on magazine covers, internet sites, etc....



Amen!!

Longspot
Mar. 15, 2007, 11:18 PM
anyway, if h/j people aren't advocating this position, then why do they prominently display it on magazine covers, internet sites, etc....


Well, because in hunters it's the horse being judged, and often in those photos (especially on covers) you'll see an impressive knees-to-eyeballs, round effort. It's an advocation of the horse, certainly, and those who imitate the rider are misguided.

I generally stay out of such things, but I was very disappointed to see the ad hominem attacks over here. As someone who moves quite a bit, I keep tabs on people I'd like to do business with and people I'd like to avoid through COTH. This thread has added people into each category. I'd like to thank all of the lovely people of the eventing community who have welcomed so many converts such as myself into the fold. I'm glad my entrance to eventing was met with enthusiasm and kindness as opposed to hostility. Who wants to volunteer to jump judge for a bunch of jerks?

To the OP: I hope you have a safe, fun time!

bambam
Mar. 16, 2007, 09:51 AM
I don't understand the negativity here though. Come on we are eventers! We don't get snarky, we're too high on adrenaline from our last near death experience for that! :cool:
See I understand it- because of weather and EHV-1 or injuries or whatever, most of us have not been getting our required adrenaline hit- I know I get snarky without it and I haven't jumped a x-country jump since October and won't be able to for at least another month - aaargghhh!!! ;)
Then again maybe somebody peed in their wheaties that morning too

RugBug
Mar. 16, 2007, 01:53 PM
Rugbug :lol: so sorry!!!
anyway, if h/j people aren't advocating this position, then why do they prominently display it on magazine covers, internet sites, etc....
and btw, dinner was awesome!!! prime rib with key lime pie for desert yummm, and amazing company none the less! I have a great husband:D

Hey, eventmom...dinner sounded fantastic. I'm sitting here drooling a bit on the keyboard.

I think Longspot pretty much answered your question, but I'll give it a little stab. There are a lot of factors that play into the prevalence of ducking and jumping ahead including judging (horse only), flat manicured rings, set striding in lines, imitation of pros, the "showmanship" aspect etc. If you've ever watched a top show, you can observe riders doing both hunters and equitation or jumpers. You will see the exact same ducking, jumping ahead hunter rider, sit up and wait in their eq or jumper rounds. The duck disappears when the need for the 'my-horse-jumps-hard-and-round-and-all-by-himself' "show" disappears. Unfortunately, some young kids see the "show" of hunters but don't have the foundation to do the 'sit up and wait' part. They don't even realize they are watching an act. They've been snookered. They are the ones that we need to watch out for.

It's similar to the head and heel bobbing (or even leaning back behind the vertical...or rollkur...or...) in dressage. Anyone who knows classical dressage knows it is incorrect, but some big name did it and won, so it was copied. And it trickled down. The dressage community is smaller and the network better than H/J (it seems...I've never seen a "clinic" type show on TV about hunters/jumpers or eventing) and the fad is thankfully disappearing. The top levels of hunters are finally saying "hey, enough is enough" and asking for change (check out the threads on H/J about GM and Bill Moroney's articles). The trickle down change is going to take a LONG time, because we all know once something is a habit for us lesser quality riders, it is hard to kick.

Anyway...those are just some of my thoughts on the topic...and are only my opinion. I can't speak for all hunters out there...some may love ducking more than life itself. :D

eventmom
Mar. 16, 2007, 02:11 PM
ok, fair enough, although I have seen this "method" used in ways that don't seem to jive with your explanation. For example, (and this is just one example as I have seen many) one day I was watching on RFDTV a respected hunter lady teach some cowboys how to jump on her amazing Hunter horses (very strange) but my point is, she was "teaching" them but laying on the horse, and in the same breath, talking about the need to be balanced! If this is supposed to be a method used to show off a horse, why would you teach it to beginners?
but this is a question, not a slam! To my mind, the best way to show off a horses movement is to be as balanced as possible and thus get out of the way for the horse to do it's job. Throwing all of your weight on the horses neck can not possibly, it seems to me, help it jump better! Explain this to me. I really am very curious what the thought here is.

RugBug
Mar. 16, 2007, 02:27 PM
ok, fair enough, although I have seen this "method" used in ways that don't seem to jive with your explanation. For example, (and this is just one example as I have seen many) one day I was watching on RFDTV a respected hunter lady teach some cowboys how to jump on her amazing Hunter horses (very strange) but my point is, she was "teaching" them but laying on the horse, and in the same breath, talking about the need to be balanced! If this is supposed to be a method used to show off a horse, why would you teach it to beginners?
but this is a question, not a slam! To my mind, the best way to show off a horses movement is to be as balanced as possible and thus get out of the way for the horse to do it's job. Throwing all of your weight on the horses neck can not possibly, it seems to me, help it jump better! Explain this to me. I really am very curious what the thought here is.

Okay, I may get blasted for this...but I haven't seen a respected hunter lady on RFDTV. I've seen Lynn Palm and maybe she's respected in some places...but she's not a name I have ever associated with USEF hunters (AQHA hunters, yes...which is a whole different ball game).

In hunters you do stay off the horse's back until about a stride after the jump to keep them freer. If you come down too early (hunter early, not rest of the world early) you encourage the horse to lift it's head and hollow it's back somewhat. This is a no-no. You can do this and remain in balance, though.

Beginners are not taught to throw all their weight on the horse's neck. They are usually taught to get into two point, grab some mane and point the saintly horse they are hopefully on at the jump. Sometimes a jump strap is used to keep them off the horse's face and back.

I can't speak for all trainers out there. I'm sure there are some that think ducking and jumping ahead are just fine...just like there are event trainers who think you ride everything behind the motion on XC and mouth surfing is just fine (i.e., they can't teach the wonderful art of slipping reins...which probably should be one of the first things beginning eventers learn). There is no way to get rid of all the craptastic trainers, of any discipline...and in hunters, the riders may not even realize they are crappy, because there is no terrain to teach them to not duck or jump ahead...and a saintly horse could pack a monkey around a course. In eventing, you just watch the XC (and often the stadium) and if a trainer has barn colors, you can easily pick who may or may not be a good choice to ride with by the gasps of the crowd.

Rocco GibrALTER
Mar. 16, 2007, 02:52 PM
Great question- great thread -for awhile anyway. Go, have fun, learn for next time. THat's the best anyone can do the first time out.

Your pony is really cute!

eventmom
Mar. 16, 2007, 03:24 PM
hmmm, you really didn't answer my question about how it helps show a horse off to lay on it's neck? Or atleast I didn't catch it.
I am in on all of my kids lessons. They are learning the balanced seat by some very good event trainers.
They learn very early to slip the reins, This is something they must learn in order to jump downhill! They are encouraged constantly to remember that it hurts to pull on the mouth!
stay balanced over the jump, and as close to the saddle as possible, but of course not in the saddle.
They also learn not to come down on the horses back after the jump!
My seven year old knows these things (not that she always practices them!)
I don't know what event trainers you have seen, but wow. I guess anyone can call themselves an expert.

RugBug
Mar. 16, 2007, 03:36 PM
hmmm, you really didn't answer my question about how it helps show a horse off to lay on it's neck? Or atleast I didn't catch it.


You didn't catch it. ;)

From another current thread:

"The exaggerated position is suppose to be a sign that the rider can't stay balanced and "with" the great jump. It's all look-at-how-my-horse's-amazing-form-jumps-me-right-out-of-the-tack."

What started as lights and mirrors has become widespread fad.

But as another poster pointed out, the pros (i.e. the actors putting on the show) usually get a better jump/round out of the horse. This could be due to a lot of factors...one, that they are pros for a reason...but facts is facts and a pros round are usually better or we wouldn't be paying them.

And really, I'm just a low level rider with a horse...and pocketbook...not fancy enough to do the big time... Big Timers might have different insights.

And I'll point you back to my comment about stills and video...you take a still and you see Richard Spooner with some crazy pinched knees and five feet out of the saddle...then you see the same round on video and go "hmm...that didn't look scary and unsafe." Same goes for the hunter riders.

eventmom
Mar. 16, 2007, 03:42 PM
wow, so .... look how my horse jumps me out of the tack, has become a fad? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think I get it now :eek: :eek: :eek:
all those poor little kids are learning to get jumped right out of the tack:( :( :(
how many will land on their head before they quit playing games with 1000 pound animals :o :o :o

RAyers
Mar. 16, 2007, 03:44 PM
ok, fair enough, although I have seen this "method" used in ways that don't seem to jive with your explanation. For example, (and this is just one example as I have seen many) one day I was watching on RFDTV a respected hunter lady teach some cowboys how to jump on her amazing Hunter horses (very strange) but my point is, she was "teaching" them but laying on the horse, and in the same breath, talking about the need to be balanced! If this is supposed to be a method used to show off a horse, why would you teach it to beginners?
but this is a question, not a slam! To my mind, the best way to show off a horses movement is to be as balanced as possible and thus get out of the way for the horse to do it's job. Throwing all of your weight on the horses neck can not possibly, it seems to me, help it jump better! Explain this to me. I really am very curious what the thought here is.

The "trainer" on RFDTV is not a noted hunter rider from the USEF/USHJA perspective.

To add to RugBug's description, and having done the A/O hunters etc. for quite a long time, try this:

A good hunter position is the same almost as the two-point you hold on a fly or steeplechase fence. You are balanced but not leaning back, nor sitting on the saddle. The only difference is the speed. The last time I rode in the A/Os at an "A" show I was also eventing. I went into the ring and just pretended every fence was a fly fence, held my position and kept an even forward pace. We were reserve champions and got a lot of compliments about our form. :)

Over time this position has been bastardized to the current body drop we associate with hunters.

Eventmom, I asked my sister, who is a hunter judge the same question. RugBug is correct in that this is a fad, albeit an incorrect fad. Kids and adults are taught to "grab mane" but there is no follow up to refine the position since many folks can simply get into the show ring with just that amount of information. Hence why it gets "taught."

Remember, the classic school of horsemanship is not taught much anymore because most folks who take up the sport are working suburban/urbanites and don't have the time that it takes to learn what we did. At the same time the land does not exist either so kids can't go and gallop hell-bent all over hill and dale to truly integrate what is learned.


Reed

eventmom
Mar. 16, 2007, 03:53 PM
Thanks guys, I really appreciate your candid answers. I think it would help a lot of people would be more honest. Instead they just get defensive and mad.
So many questions, so little time!
The truth is, my daughter has done some hunters. She has never been slamed for her position over the jump. They don't like her toes, etc.... she looks like an eventer.... but no one has complained that her jumping position was wrong. So, your right, maybe it is changing. It just seems so utterly glorified in all the wrong places, i.e. magazines, etc..

RugBug
Mar. 16, 2007, 04:00 PM
how many will land on their head before they quit playing games with 1000 pound animals :o :o :o

Not many...and probably less than those learning in eventing.

Because as has been said before, many times, there is nothing to teach them that lesson. Jumping ahead on flat terrain isn't a big deal. Jumping ahead up a bank, not such a big deal. Jumping ahead going downhill? Yep, there's your big deal but when was the last time you saw a downhill jump in the beginning levels of hunters? Um, almost never. (But I also have to surmise, that since you think Lynn Palm is a respected hunter lady, that you don't know too much about real show hunters in general, so you might not know that. If I'm making unwarranted assumptions, I apologize.)

I learned the dangers of jumping ahead from doing little down banks (gack, still hate them ), from jumping with no hands, jumping bareback and bridleless, and the biggest...riding a stopper. Riders will learn when needed...or they won't if a) they don't care to and/or b) they are never presented with situations in which jumping ahead punishes them.

Whisper
Mar. 16, 2007, 04:04 PM
Greystone, I hope the hubbub hasn't scared you off! I think that taking a few XC lessons on him (or on a horse who is experienced, with another experienced rider on your pony) will make your first outing a lot more fun, and the two of you will do better. :D I'm sure you'll be able to make the adjustment easily, but the terrain and banks feel very different from "regular" fences. Your pony is absolutely adorable, and seems to have a really gutsy "go for it" kind of attitude. He has very similar markings to a Paint I get to ride on the weekends. You certainly don't come across as a brat.

As far as making time goes, I agree that the courses can be wheeled pretty tightly - I got a lot of time faults on XC, and even one a couple of times in SJ, on a 16.2 hand OTTB who is perfectly willing and able to go fast. ;) I'm certainly not advocating that you run him off his feet, but making the time might not be as easy as some of the other people have expressed.

Eventmom, I was taking H/J lessons at a couple of barns before I started eventing, and they did not teach me, or any of the other students (from beginners just starting to very experienced riders) to lay down on the neck. They *did* want a crest release, and for my lower back to be arched in/butt sticking out, rather than tucking my seatbones underneath like my eventing instructors ask for.

eventmom
Mar. 16, 2007, 04:06 PM
I never said I respected Lynn Palm! The lady on RFDTV was not a regular.
point taken about the falling. My girls learned on a very dirty stopper. And they gallop in pastures, and jump downhills, and, etc...... I guess you can't compare.

RugBug
Mar. 16, 2007, 04:10 PM
Reed, I always appreciate your even-handed perspective. It's nice to hear from someone who can discuss things from high levels of both disciplines. :winkgrin:


Kids and adults are taught to "grab mane" but there is no follow up to refine the position since many folks can simply get into the show ring with just that amount of information. Hence why it gets "taught."


As to this: often, the 'grabbing mane' part isn't taught correctly. Beginners are taught to grab mane and lean heavily on their hands. This encourages jumping ahead because rider's never gain the strength to hold themselves up with their core. It can also lead to set hands, which is also incorrect (I have a tendency to do this, but I am constantly working on it). Riders get it into their head that 'my hands go here' instead of my hands go where needed for the fence I'm jumping. In other words, they never learn how to use the different crest releases for different situations.

Edited to say: Sorry about the Lynn Palm misunderstanding. I think I just quoted what you said about her being 'a respected hunter lady?' either way, even if it wasn't Lynn Palm, I haven't seen a single "respected" hunter trainer, male or female on RFDTV. I would love it if there were shows, I'd even go get me a dish and TiVo for that. :yes:

Dr. Doolittle
Mar. 16, 2007, 04:45 PM
Very good points made by both RugBug and RAyers in recents posts :)

I've been reading this thread today (and wondering how it got so off track :sigh:), and was unable to find the pix of the OP...Did she remove them? And what of the OP--has she fled the eventing board in horror? :p

If so, please come back!; we eventer types are really not so bad (I've done hunters in the past--still do sometimes--and have a few bad habits as a result...at least they are bad habits in terms of "eventing O/F", but none of these bad habits (over-folding, for instance) will lead to my "early demise", because I am able to stay balanced when I jump cross country; I think any experienced and competent rider (or rider who rides competently O/F) can be taught (and can easily learn) how to make the necessary adjustments in order to stay safe, secure, and "in the middle of the horse" over BN cross country.

(If you really want to learn to "allow the horse to jump out on front of you" when riding O/F--stadium *or* X-country--ride in a Lucinda Green clinic...she really focuses on this, and she's tha bomb! :winkgrin:)

GreystoneKC
Mar. 19, 2007, 11:54 AM
Oh god no. Really, you haven't lived until you have had Denny damn near pass out from yelling (until he was hoarse) "Don't duck, for the love of all things holy, stop duuuuuucccccckkkkkkkiiiing! *gasp* wheeeze, whimper...."

Really, if you can incorporate that into your experience, I think that will top it off perfectly. :D :D :D

LOLOLOL
I've been practicing my perfect equitation to my friend calling out big scary obstacle names as I jump rail 3ft verticles and 2'9" square oxers in my indoor. "Big log with pumpkins!" "Giant stone wall!" "White house!" "A what?", as I jump over it... "A big white house!"

GreystoneKC
Mar. 19, 2007, 01:27 PM
horseguy, I want to you know I am so in your camp! You guys can say all you want but a picture speaks a thousand words. Did you see how she lays on that poor pony's neck over the fence?
And the clothes thing.... I wanted to say something, but horseguy beat me to it! Who cares what color you wear? Go ahead, if it feels good, I am sure the nearest tack shop will be happy to sell you any color of shirt, and breaches, and helmet, and ....... you like. Oh, and don't forget the dressage saddle! :eek: :eek: :eek:

A.) My pony doesn't give a rat's booty about me on his neck. Trust me when I tell you my leg is holding me up and I am not putting all my weight on his neck. He's quite obviously jumping in nice form even with my habitual duck you see in those pictures.
B.) I care what colour I wear. And I already own pretty much any I could want, so I don't really need to hit up the tack store, but thanks for the recommendation...

Janet
Mar. 19, 2007, 02:05 PM
A.) My pony doesn't give a rat's booty about me on his neck. Trust me when I tell you my leg is holding me up and I am not putting all my weight on his neck. He's quite obviously jumping in nice form even with my habitual duck you see in those pictures.
...
Do yourself a favor, and set up a simple jump (could be just an X) on a real slope, and jump it both uphill and downhill. That way you will find out whether the pony "cares" when the ground isn't flat.

MUCH better to find out now, rather than half way round the course!

GreystoneKC
Mar. 19, 2007, 02:12 PM
Hi Guys!!! I have not fled the eventing board in horror! I just happened to have a really busy week riding, teaching, and body clipping, oh my! This thread seems to be winding down, so I'll say my piece and go back to the wonderful world of lurking until it comes time for my event (which I'm thoroughly roped into now, because my entries have been officially sent in).

I want to make a shirt that has "Carnage Happens" on the back and wear to the event for the course walk! LOLOLOL

I also want to point out that the people who are making comments about being sure I'm prepared for this event that they DO have a point. Thing is, I don't appreciate the way some people are making their points. Now I didn't come onto this site like, hi, i'm an AMAZING rider, so I'll kick @$$ at this. And I didn't ask for people to assume I can't ride my way out of a paper bag, either. Actually, I wasn't looking for anyone to make assumptions about my riding ability at all. All I wanted was some suggestions, mostly about rules and attire. But for those of you who care to know, I am NOT a junior rider, I am NOT an amatuer rider, and while I am also NOT perfect, I do think I am a talented rider. And I have confidence in my ability to do a BN course.

OK just a little bit to (maybe) make some of you feel better about my participation... In addition to all of my hunter-jumper "princess" participation, I have done a fair share of hunter paces to 3ft on a large pony I used to own. Never taken a go around, only jump that really scared the crap out of me was a max-height grey stone wall. But we hopped it and went on our merry way. I also train at Saddlebrook Ridge and have taken my pinto pony there to school XC before, which we will do again before the event. He happily jumped banks, coops, ditches, and other random wooden things, oh and goes through the water. We also recently went "extreme trail riding" (this is not your grandma's trail riding!) through the boondocks of NJ, where we went through tons of water, up and down river banks, even once going down a bank, jumping a big log, and then taking a stride into a stream! Fun. Oh, and we had to go back up! I only almost died twice - once when my pony got wet and then rolled with me on his back (to everyone else's histerical laughter) and once when galloping full speed over what I could not describe more accuartely then calling them MOGULS on the trail, and Bandit tripped and almost went head over. But luckily, I was able to right him and continue along our merry way.

My friend gave me his rule book and Omnibus. I've read the whole rulebook already and I'm working on my second read. Lately been telling him some of the rules! It's funny. So I think I'm pretty clear on most of the rules, especially with your guys' help. Though a few things with refusals and circles and stuff confuse me...I'm just going to try not to do that. Oh and what's up with the "if you fall off, you can get back on" thing?!?! That's crazy! Good for you guys, but weird for a h/j person. Oh yeah, and no twisted bits in dressage! Ak! There go our transitions. LOL

Ok so why does everyone think the crest release is the bane of all existence? Most of the riders I see in event photos are either using a crest release (which looks like it's lucky they are!) or hitting their horse in the mouth. Rarely do I see (in EITHER discipline) a correctly executed auto release! And HorseGuy, you're like the pot calling the kettle black cause I could make a LOT of comments about the riders on your website - but I won't stoop that low. Especially because, as people have stated before, you can't make assumptions based on one moment in time.

When I teach beginners, you have to start somewhere. I teach them to use the neck for upper body support, and grab mane if necessary,while working on stretching down through their leg and heel and keeping it under themselves. Usually this is on saintly school horses that allow the kids to make mistakes and learn from them. On the flat I am CRAZY about making riders ride in 2-point. Once they are balanced, I work them on 2-point flatwork with hands off the neck and in varying positions to develop leg strength. I also favour riding without stirrups. I think this helps develop the skills these riders will eventually use to progress into riders who can correctly use the crest release, move onto auto releases, and avoid the dreaded duck.

Ducking in the hunters is an interesting thing. It is not something we ever teach or encourage. In fact I really get after my pony kids for doing it. But as pros, we often do us it as a stylistic thing to show off our horses. It's not a matter of saying, "ducking makes my horse jump better", because in fact, it CAN hinder a horse's jumping form. It's more like saying, "look at my horse, he's amazing because he can jump this AWESOME even with my 100+lbs of body haning off the side of his neck!". Does that make it right? Not really. Do you take points off for it in hunters? No. We only care about the horse. Does it annoy some people? Sure. Do we care? Not necessarily. Do we encourage our kids to ride this way? HELL NO! Actually, case in point, my kids like to get after me if I duck. They laugh and say "haha, you got jumped out of the saddle!" "keep your heels down!" but its cute.

Oh and I do care what I am wearing and what I look like. And that doesn't make me a bad rider. If an event person came on the h/j BB and said, hey I'm doing a schooling h/j show, what should I wear? Or said, hey I'm doing my first AA rated h/j show this summer, what should I wear? I would tell this person what I thought. Because in our world, what you wear matters. In your overall impression, it is being judged even. And whether you care about it or not, people are judging you. Some people just want to fit in. And obviously, it was good that I asked or I'd be riding in dressage with a purple jacket and shirt! LOL I like to look great and ride better - and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

shade
Mar. 19, 2007, 02:12 PM
Just have fun. Don`t sweat the small stuff like dressage, etc.
When you come flying through the x-c finish flags in one piece, you`ll know what all the fuss is about. It`s pure euphoria, and the more scared you are BEFORE the more joy you will feel AFTER!
All the rest is trivia.
(In my opinion)

Couldn't have said it better myself...the feeling of going through the finish flags...can't put it into words..it's just the best..you'll love it.

GreystoneKC
Mar. 19, 2007, 02:20 PM
Some may offer a defense for superficial fashion over safety, but in spite of the creative language, commitment to unconsciousness, and other childish patterns, the fact remains that there are sports with mortality rates and those without. As eventing moves toward just another commercial specialty, with the vast majority of participants riding at the lower levels, it is not surprising that we see the influx of the kinds of attitudes so common in segments like Hunter/Jumpers.

The fact is a spoiled entitle brat is a spoiled entitled brat in a show ring or on an event course. I realize this fact disturbs some, but personally I do not care. I’m interested in the riders who what to really ride, the ones that don’t need the affirmation of the right clothes, the trendy equipment, or the flashy horse. So if I have offended you, simply consider that I am not addressing you, because I am not. I don’t waste my time on brats. If I have not offended you please consider that you are the future hope of equestrian sport. There exists a tradition of riding that is centuries old, one of true horsemanship. This tradition has no interest in trends, self importance and glory beyond that of the horse’s performance. It is about substance. In the final analysis brats lack substance and therefore they cannot continue the tradition of excellence I horsemanship. They are therefore useless to equestrian sport, and everyone but themselves.

I hope I make myself clear.

You fascinate me. Let me guess guys, you have issues with him posting all the time? Wow you called me "superficial", "childish", "spoiled", "entitled", "brat", and have insinuated that I care nothing for horsemanship, substance, or talent. Guess what. I AM the future of the equestrian sport, and I care about talent, skill, horsemanship, sportsmanship, true equine talent- some flashy and some not - and I also care about looking good, keeping up with fashion trends, new equipment if it's good, and learning new things. I am always willing to learn. You seem stuck in the past. Maybe one day you'll figure out that mixing solid, tried and true methods with new skills is a good way of learning and training. And that just because you looks good, doesn't mean you can't ride.

RAyers
Mar. 19, 2007, 02:32 PM
I want to make a shirt that has "Carnage Happens" on the back and wear to the event for the course walk! LOLOLOL


Ok so why does everyone think the crest release is the bane of all existence? Most of the riders I see in event photos are either using a crest release (which looks like it's lucky they are!) or hitting their horse in the mouth. Rarely do I see (in EITHER discipline) a correctly executed auto release!



As a superstitous horse person, watch out for that shirt! I wore one like it, once. Only once.... ;) See my swimming in the water fence comment.

I do not think most folks look at the crest release as a "bad" thing but on XC, it tends to make the horses bascule over the fences. This works fine for low level stuff but once you get to a place where the widths are 4 feet and up across the top of the fence, a bascule becomes very dangerous. Thus, the release becomes more "automatic", sliding the reins at the same time. This encourages the horse to flatten the jump and go across the fence.

From my videos, I have 5 types of releases on XC based on the fence type. They range from the "looking like I am in the back seat, slip the reins" to the crest release to a full automatic. Top event riders have more and they instinctually use them to put together a beautiful course.

Sometimes what looks like hitting a horse's mouth is actually, the rider slipping the reins without moving their hand. Thus it looks horrible but the horse never even feels it.

Good luck! Have fun! I will leave you with quote from Jimmy Wofford when he described to me what a good XC round looks like:

"Watch the open hunters. They jump 4' while making it look effortless. Now do that on XC."

Reed

LisaB
Mar. 19, 2007, 02:38 PM
Hey Greystone!
I hope you got my PM.
And you definitely have the right attitude. Just be sure to wear neutral colored underwear under your light breeches on x-c in case you get a dunking! Kidding. That won't happen. Like wearing clean underwear in case you're in an accident. Like Bill Cosby says, "I thought that's what an accident was!"

Whisper
Mar. 19, 2007, 02:57 PM
Hi, Greystone,
I had the impression that neither you nor the pony had done XC before, that's why I made the suggestions I did. I'm sure you can get around BN just fine, but getting a specialist in to fine tune things will probably help both of you do even better! Anyway, good luck to you and that adorable pony, and I hope you find the perfect new home for him.

bip
Mar. 19, 2007, 03:01 PM
Oh wait, I take it all back. I misread that your post, I didn't see that it was directed at horseguy.

GreystoneKC
Mar. 19, 2007, 07:39 PM
Oh wait, I take it all back. I misread that your post, I didn't see that it was directed at horseguy.

Were you talking to me? I missed it.

Dawnd
Mar. 19, 2007, 07:50 PM
You fascinate me. Let me guess guys, you have issues with him posting all the time? Wow you called me "superficial", "childish", "spoiled", "entitled", "brat", and have insinuated that I care nothing for horsemanship, substance, or talent. Guess what. I AM the future of the equestrian sport, and I care about talent, skill, horsemanship, sportsmanship, true equine talent- some flashy and some not - and I also care about looking good, keeping up with fashion trends, new equipment if it's good, and learning new things. I am always willing to learn. You seem stuck in the past. Maybe one day you'll figure out that mixing solid, tried and true methods with new skills is a good way of learning and training. And that just because you looks good, doesn't mean you can't ride.

You go, girl!

I've been following this post, reading the first page as it was posted...I got chills reading Denny's post. Then I came back a few days later and had no idea why people were blasting you.

Go back to the first page, read up until Denny's post and stop there.
dd

Judi
Mar. 19, 2007, 09:35 PM
As a superstitous horse person, watch out for that shirt! I wore one like it, once. Only once.... ;) See my swimming in the water fence comment.

I do not think most folks look at the crest release as a "bad" thing but on XC, it tends to make the horses bascule over the fences. This works fine for low level stuff but once you get to a place where the widths are 4 feet and up across the top of the fence, a bascule becomes very dangerous. Thus, the release becomes more "automatic", sliding the reins at the same time. This encourages the horse to flatten the jump and go across the fence.

From my videos, I have 5 types of releases on XC based on the fence type. They range from the "looking like I am in the back seat, slip the reins" to the crest release to a full automatic. Top event riders have more and they instinctually use them to put together a beautiful course.

Sometimes what looks like hitting a horse's mouth is actually, the rider slipping the reins without moving their hand. Thus it looks horrible but the horse never even feels it.

Good luck! Have fun! I will leave you with quote from Jimmy Wofford when he described to me what a good XC round looks like:

"Watch the open hunters. They jump 4' while making it look effortless. Now do that on XC."

Reed

Hey... Nothing wrong with a crest release if executed correctly for the right reason. If you've gotten your horse to the base of the fence as long as you support him with your leg... it's nice to give him his freedom to make the best effort over a fence he needs to jump round over.

But as Rayer says on X-C you don't want your horse to bascule so much... as he needs to get across the fence... That beautiful form of Hunters overjumping is not a good thing on X-C at the upper levels as it gets a horse mighty tired... and he needs as much energy at the end of a course as at the beginning.

I only ride to Training level now (Schooling to make the move to Prelim) but here's an example of various releases I've used (and yes I'm an ex-Jumper rider) all in the same stadium ride

(These pics taken by our own PerfectPony...RugBug I believe you were at this show and saw this round.)

Short Crest Release over a triple bar....
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2789110590053938723iHkHJA

Auto Release out of a one stride/long one take off -(very supported leg to get out of combination)
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2658489480053938723UpYFBi

AND FINALLY... the final fence crest release... when i buried the poor pony into the base of the fence....
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2124681280053938723hJLHGC

3 different moments in a clean stadium round. Not my best Eq./Medal pics but I got the job done and never even thought about what release I was using. If you look at my webshots you'll see my Hunter rounds with Crest Release and X-C photos with a balanced seat.

I've won Medal Finals in my past H/J life but took the move to X-C very seriously. I learned how to use my balanced seat.. but never threw out my Jumper experience and am grateful I know how to ride my pony to the base of a fence and take the inside track. There is good and bad form in every discipline. Bad hunter riders "perch" and get away with it. Bad Event riders (and jumpers for that matter) can careen around a stadium round on the wrong lead and luck out to not take down the rails. But we all know what a good round in both disciplines look like. We should respect the good in both and avoid the bad.

In otherwords... "Cant we all just get along"....LOL

RugBug... thanks for pointing me over to your videos... you rock girl.

: )

Graystone... HAVE FUN... I LOVE YOUR PONY. You'll love this sport.. and yes.. thank you for asking what to wear.. .there ARE rules about it (for example you have to wear sleeves on X-C or you'll get eliminated)


Horseguy - I do respect you.. but really... more flies with honey and all that.


Rock on everyone....

judi and rainier....

BarbB
Mar. 19, 2007, 09:45 PM
good post Judi and ditto on this:


Horseguy - I do respect you.. but really... more flies with honey and all that.

vacreekfarm
Mar. 19, 2007, 10:02 PM
Graystone-
You are going to have so much fun you'll never want to go back to the h/j thing!! :D Best of luck and much fun!!! We want pics after the event!!!
Judi-
:yes:

GreystoneKC
Mar. 20, 2007, 08:42 AM
Judi, I love your little horse! SO cute and such a little jack of all trades! I looked through all your photos and it's nice to find someone who understands that you can do more than one discipline and change your ride accordingly. You can see it right in all your photos! Also, that's NOT BN you're doing right, cause some of them look a bit large for my little pony. Well, with me at least - he'd probably tell you he could do it all NO PROB!

I understand what you mean about the bascule too because that's similar when we are doing the larger jumper classes. We still want a jump "up", but we need that jump "across" also for the back rails and triple bars, especially.

But honestly, I'll always be a hunter girl at heart. I'm a perfectionist and to me there's nothing in this world more amazing than the perfect hunter trip - when you're going sooooo smooooooth and then BAM! up off the ground you get that powerhouse jump and the whole crowd is silent until you hit the ground from the last jump and the whole place explodes... yeah. lol

asterix
Mar. 20, 2007, 09:46 AM
I dunno, a lot of us have made the change and never gone back...
and, yeah, it can be a bit disappointing when you start eventing and realize there are no cheering masses...well, every once in a while, but mostly no...

on the bright side, if you come off at the water, three people you've never seen will be holding your horse, dusting you off, and boosting you back on before you know what's happened, and four more strangers will stop by your trailer and ask if you are ok (or say "but I saw your sj round, that was good!").

If the judge in dressage tells you your braids are nice, you are not having a good day.
If you get home and find mud in places you never thought got exposed to air, you are having a good day.

It is pretty different from hunters! I hope you find it friendly (ier than this thread has been, at least!), and come back and let us know what you think...

ss3777
Mar. 20, 2007, 11:00 AM
Judi for president :)

RugBug
Mar. 20, 2007, 11:08 AM
RugBug... thanks for pointing me over to your videos... you rock girl.


Heh...I have no shame and am willing to post video of me jumping over silly tiny little jumps. (the oxers out were 2'6"...of that I'm sure, well, almost positive...they just look tiny because of the angle. I'm pretty good about knowing the height of a jump just by looking at it...and I will readily admit when something isn't up to the class height, but man, those things look tiny. :lol: ) It's good to finally be getting somewhere again, even if it's a miniscule little place.

(BTW, I was working for the photographer at the last Twin Rivers and I think she has a picture of you and Rainer in the trailer. Big ole huge sucker. You'll have to confirm that for me. :D )

RAyers
Mar. 20, 2007, 12:02 PM
.

But honestly, I'll always be a hunter girl at heart. I'm a perfectionist and to me there's nothing in this world more amazing than the perfect hunter trip - when you're going sooooo smooooooth and then BAM! up off the ground you get that powerhouse jump and the whole crowd is silent until you hit the ground from the last jump and the whole place explodes... yeah. lol


Oh, just wait. If you ever get a chance to crank across a 4' (6' with brush) Weldon's Wall at speed or bounce through a difficult combination in the water complex it will make the crowd in the jumpers seem tame. Since the crowd in eventing can not make a noise as you approach, they let is all hang out when/if you get through. At the same time, they are maybe 10 feet or less away from the fence. Heck, at some places, it is like riding down a path bordered by people no more than 3 feet away. Compared to my jumper days, eventer crowds outside are just as loud as the jumper crowds indoors. :)

Reed

GreystoneKC
Mar. 20, 2007, 12:57 PM
a 4' (6' with brush) Weldon's Wall at speed


That sounds SCARY!!!! Not FUN!!! LOL! I don't mind a 5ft square oxer - as long as it comes down when you hit it!!!! LOLOLOL

Jazzy Lady
Mar. 20, 2007, 01:09 PM
That sounds SCARY!!!! Not FUN!!! LOL! I don't mind a 5ft square oxer - as long as it comes down when you hit it!!!! LOLOLOL

Ya but then you have a lovely ditch in front as a ground line and the brush you brush THROUGH!!! :) But then you REALLY have to be solid because if the brush is not very whispy then it can get a little sticky midair ;) Hahhaha...

But OH the rush...

You just wait! You'll be eating your hunter princess words ;) :p

Judi
Mar. 28, 2007, 03:10 PM
Heh...I have no shame and am willing to post video of me jumping over silly tiny little jumps. (the oxers out were 2'6"...of that I'm sure, well, almost positive...they just look tiny because of the angle. I'm pretty good about knowing the height of a jump just by looking at it...and I will readily admit when something isn't up to the class height, but man, those things look tiny. :lol: ) It's good to finally be getting somewhere again, even if it's a miniscule little place.

(BTW, I was working for the photographer at the last Twin Rivers and I think she has a picture of you and Rainer in the trailer. Big ole huge sucker. You'll have to confirm that for me. :D )

Wonder if she'll be at Galway. And Rugbug... 2'6" can feel like 4'... depending on the horse... or the last time you jumped that height. I will ALWAYS remember that 2 years ago... before I moved to Eventing... that I was afraid to TROT Rainier on the trail. It's all perspective an time in the saddle eh? You look great you hunter princess you... ; )

judi

Judi
Mar. 28, 2007, 03:22 PM
Oh, just wait. If you ever get a chance to crank across a 4' (6' with brush) Weldon's Wall at speed or bounce through a difficult combination in the water complex it will make the crowd in the jumpers seem tame. Since the crowd in eventing can not make a noise as you approach, they let is all hang out when/if you get through. At the same time, they are maybe 10 feet or less away from the fence. Heck, at some places, it is like riding down a path bordered by people no more than 3 feet away. Compared to my jumper days, eventer crowds outside are just as loud as the jumper crowds indoors. :)

Reed

Reed... I'd have screamed myself hoarse hooting for you and Shiv jumping that fence you used to have in your public profile.... You know the one that looks like your jumping INTO the tree.... Gawd in Heaven.... it just takes my breath away.... You got that posted anywhere we can revisit it? Just love that shot

And Greystone... Reed is soo right. There is absolutely NOTHING like the feeling of crossing that finish line on cross country... AND I always hear way more hooting and hollering for Rainier and I on XC then I've ever heard in the jumper/hunter ring. And the cool part about it... is the encouragement comes from folks you don't even know. I've never met a kinder... more encouraging, supportive and generous group of people. It truely is amazing... and addicting...

Oh.. and the X-C photos are Novice up to Training... so no worries.. and I'll let Rainier know you called him "Little" he'll be quite flattered as normally people are making comments about how "big boned" he is.. I think he's a bit sensitive about it...

Good luck Greystone.. you're going to love it....

: )

Kimberlee
Mar. 28, 2007, 03:52 PM
I used my choker instead of a stock tie for stadium.

RAyers
Mar. 28, 2007, 03:53 PM
You ask, you receive. This is what you have to look forward to Greystone. Ain't no sissy jumper fences like this. ;)

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2747565210100965256ZAQurx

Reed

SPLAT
Mar. 28, 2007, 04:19 PM
May I please download this picture to show my non-horse friends - I have one of me jumping a 2'11' brush ..... somehow its just not the same (siigh)

You are now on me and my horse's list of "the Brave" !!!!!!

RAyers
Mar. 28, 2007, 05:04 PM
Sure, but did you look at the other pictures on the album? Our own Nevertime is also doing a Weldon's Wall on Hal the wonder horse. She is my XC inspiration. :)

Reed

Whisper
Mar. 28, 2007, 05:43 PM
Reed, I love that picture, too! The angle makes it look like you are jumping one of the trees in the background, instead of a brush fence, until you look closely. It reminds me of a drawing in a book I had when I was a kid, of a horse and rider jumping through a tree with a "y-fork" about 4' or 5' up, with foliage over their heads.

Eventer13
Mar. 28, 2007, 07:14 PM
Wow... huge fence Reed. I hope I have the guts (and talent) to jump something like that one day. What a rush! Out of curiousity, what level were you riding?

GreystoneKC
Mar. 29, 2007, 10:53 PM
Oh my Lord, Weldon's Wall gives me nightmares.... NO THANK YOU. I'll stick to my big ole rail fences thanks!

horseguy
Mar. 30, 2007, 02:22 PM
Most of the intelligent riders that I have known know that there is a difference between a manicured ring and a field with solid jumps. It's not rocket science, I'm sure the OP can figure it out without you jumping all over her.
You might be surprised. Riders may generally know that there is a difference, but do they understand the specific differences? This is an important point because it us usually the specifics that come around and bite you in the butt, or put you in the hospital.

For example, if your horse drags his hind legs jumping a vertical jump on a diagonal line in a show ring, it is of little consequence. The rail falls down and that’s about it. But do the same thing at a vertical on a cross country course, and what happens? It's not rocket science, I'm sure the OP can figure it out, or can she?

Here is a fence that is 3’3” high in a “W” pattern except for a short section in the middle that is about 3 ½’ wide.

http://www.equineequip.com/images/jumpwhiteWfence.JPG

That narrow section in the middle is the only perpendicular part of the jump when you first approach it. The sections to the left and right of the center narrow part wing out toward you in the “W” layout. It looks very inviting to jump the center narrow section. Makes sense so far, right?

But the specifics might indicate a different choice than jumping the center panel. This is because if you jump any solid vertical jump on a diagonal line, and your horse drags its hind legs (which even very good horses do from time to time) it is possible for a horse to get one leg over the jump, and the other one drags on the top of the jump. What does this do? It twists the horse in mid air, and the horse can roll over on top of the rider in the landing. You therefore have a very different set of consequences on a diagonal line to a vertical in cross country than in a show ring. By the way, a horse falling on a rider is a leading cause of death in equestrian sport.

It is therefore not advisable in the case of the white “W” fence in the picture to jump the narrow center section unless you are a very expert rider on a very capable horse. This is because a rider who takes the straight-on perpendicular line to the very narrow center section of this jump, may have her/his horse cheat a little left or right. Any small left or right movement puts the horse over one of the left or right of center panels on a diagonal line, because of the “W” layout. It is therefore smarter and safer to approach this fence off center, and bend your horse onto a perpendicular approach to one of the much wider sections left or right of center. Then if your horse drags his hind legs at all, the two legs drag equally, and your horse will not be put into a rolling motion over the fence.

This is why I cautioned the OP, who is used to jumping heights like 3’3”. There are consequences to jumping cross country jumps that are not immediately obvious to riders who have only jumped stadium jumps. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details and in this case, and many others like it, the specific details can kill you.

RugBug
Mar. 30, 2007, 03:09 PM
You might be surprised. Riders may generally know that there is a difference, but do they understand the specific differences? This is an important point because it us usually the specifics that come around and bite you in the butt, or put you in the hospital.

For example, if your horse drags his hind legs jumping a vertical jump on a diagonal line in a show ring, it is of little consequence. The rail falls down and that’s about it. But do the same thing at a vertical on a cross country course, and what happens? It's not rocket science, I'm sure the OP can figure it out, or can she?

Here is a fence that is 3’3” high in a “W” pattern except for a short section in the middle that is about 3 ½’ wide.

http://www.equineequip.com/images/jumpwhiteWfence.JPG

That narrow section in the middle is the only perpendicular part of the jump when you first approach it. The sections to the left and right of the center narrow part wing out toward you in the “W” layout. It looks very inviting to jump the center narrow section. Makes sense so far, right?

But the specifics might indicate a different choice than jumping the center panel. This is because if you jump any solid vertical jump on a diagonal line, and your horse drags its hind legs (which even very good horses do from time to time) it is possible for a horse to get one leg over the jump, and the other one drags on the top of the jump. What does this do? It twists the horse in mid air, and the horse can roll over on top of the rider in the landing. You therefore have a very different set of consequences on a diagonal line to a vertical in cross country than in a show ring. By the way, a horse falling on a rider is a leading cause of death in equestrian sport.

It is therefore not advisable in the case of the white “W” fence in the picture to jump the narrow center section unless you are a very expert rider on a very capable horse. This is because a rider who takes the straight-on perpendicular line to the very narrow center section of this jump, may have her/his horse cheat a little left or right. Any small left or right movement puts the horse over one of the left or right of center panels on a diagonal line, because of the “W” layout. It is therefore smarter and safer to approach this fence off center, and bend your horse onto a perpendicular approach to one of the much wider sections left or right of center. Then if your horse drags his hind legs at all, the two legs drag equally, and your horse will not be put into a rolling motion over the fence.

This is why I cautioned the OP, who is used to jumping heights like 3’3”. There are consequences to jumping cross country jumps that are not immediately obvious to riders who have only jumped stadium jumps. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details and in this case, and many others like it, the specific details can kill you.

:rolleyes: Most H/J riders experience skinnies as well as jumps like the following that could cause rolling:

http://waynesjumps.com/images/woods6.jpg

Gates like the two on the bottom of this page:
http://www.jumppvc.com/gates.htm

Curved planks:
http://www.ljjumps.com/gates/gate_pages/gate13.html

and swedish oxers, etc.

We don't just jump perfect little verticals/oxers all day long. In fact, the USET Medal has that skinny gate (not as skinny as some of the eventing corners or skinnies...but still pretty narrow) that is concave on top.

If I was going to jump the fence you posted (which was on of the ones I really like from your website) I would try a bunch of stuff. I would LOVE to do rollbacks, serpentining over each section...the W formation lends itself easily to that. If I were going to jump the center section, I would make sure my left falling horse was moving off my left aida, probably counter bending a little to help keep him straight and keep that left shoulder up, keep him balanced between leg and hand, sit to encourage him to continue going forward with impulsion and maintain a soft contact with the right rein over the jump.

magnolia73
Mar. 30, 2007, 04:23 PM
I've seen maybe 6 or 7 different XC courses- not a bunch of experience, but most of the BN jumps are very straight-forward and inviting. I'm pretty sure if you are a decent rider - say successful at 3' hunters and willing to listen to the advice to not lean on your horses neck, you will be fine. Most of the stuff that happens at BN seems to be stops or run outs caused by green rider problems- steering, not keeping leg on - same problems you see in the hunter ring. Frankly, I'd be pissy if I was out at a BN horse trial and there was a jump designed as such to be dangerous if not jumped with 100% accuracy like the one Horseguy describes.

Around this area- most of the jumps at BN are very similar to jumps at a hunter show- just on uneven terrain (except a ditch or bank). Logs, barrels, brushy jumps, solid things like coops and roll tops - all pretty straight forward tests for horse and rider. Most are trottable for most horses.

While I realize the complexity of approaching these jumps increases as levels increase, I don't think too many well designed course for lower levels would include a jump as Horseguy described. A well seasoned hunter rider who has experienced the pressure of the show ring and jumped many jumps going XC for their first time is going to be better off than someone out for their first horse trial/show ever with show nerves....I can tell you that probably many BN and N riders are not really thinking beyond heels down/eyes up/steer. The few times I've been out schooling my thoughts have been "heels down...stay on....." not..."hmmm...I need to angle that to prevent my horse from falling". That's why they make BN courses- so people can have a fun first time out and make mistakes without dire consequences.

Now I will say, I would not assume a 3'6 hunter rider could go and do Prelim right away..... that would be a potentially dangerous situation. Luckily, our brave hunter rider is heading out to do the BN division - a division that some good basics and decent horse will work for.

Jazzy Lady
Mar. 30, 2007, 05:32 PM
nm... not worth the wasted breath...

magnolia73
Mar. 30, 2007, 06:49 PM
OK- The best part of this topic is the posting of photos of people jumping crazy fences. If I had shots like RAyers and Nevertime, I'd be posting them every day. That Weldon's wall shot is incredible. If for some reason a photo like that was ever taken of me, I'd have it blown up into a mural......

horseguy
Mar. 30, 2007, 07:05 PM
It's interesting. You can post specific informational points here on the eventing board and the H/J riders will respond with what they feel are counter points. They will post pictures of jumps that fall down as a counter point to how a leg dragging on a solid jump can roll a horse. They will post oblique personal disparaging remarks, obfuscations, emotional invalidations, minimizations and so on, but they will ever admit that their H/J seat was intentionally designed for the H/J show ring and is largely ineffective in other more demanding settings.

I can only suppose that their attitude has developed as a result of the H/J scene being the largest segment of “English” riding in America for the past 30 years. I further suppose that by virtue of their greater numbers that they feel entitled to dominate discussions such as this, and define reality in their terms, all the while accusing anyone who challenges their “majority rules” entitlement as bashing them.

The one leg dragging in a diagonal line over a solid jump is only one example of many specifics that simply makes eventing more difficult and more dangerous than show riding, and thus the requirements of the rider greater. Yes, the BN and N levels are simpler, but these more recently added levels were never included as full representations of the sport. So, H/Jers defend the supposed equality of your seat’s method with all the techniques mentioned above, warp yourselves in BN and N, and talk about trees while you ignore the forest. Still, I will mention that becoming aware of your illusions might be an advantage to you. :)

RugBug
Mar. 30, 2007, 07:56 PM
horseguy...nowhere in my last post did I

post oblique personal disparaging remarks, obfuscations, emotional invalidations, minimizations

Hunter Seat Equitation was not "designed"...nor was it designed for the show ring. The term came about as a systemization of the broad base of learning that GM did. He is a man who likes order. He took the effective riding he learned from a WIDE variety of sources, including calvary riders, and gave it order. It wasn't show ring riding...it was riding: Hunting, show ring, jumping, etc. It bothers me that you continually espouse untruths. It IS effective in a variety of settings...when done correctly. I'm not even sure you could separate much of what you call balance seat from true Hunter Seat Equitation (BTW...the hunter of that term is FOXhunter...horses who jump all kinds of craziness at pace over terrain...not the current show-ring hunter).

Yes, I'm in the majority of english riders in America...but not in my area...nor do I feel entitled to dominate discussion b/c of those numbers (the majority on this thread are eventers...I think myself and Greystone are the only hunters...but I haven't gone back to check on that). I do my best to define reality on truth and facts while leaving behind personal agendas.

I'm also big enough, and enough of a fan of truth, that I can admit that I forgot to consider the fixed nature of XC jumps. You're right, that does change things some. It doesn't, however, change the abilities of many H/J riders to sucessfully navigate a XC course. Should one be sent out to compete over a Prelim or even Training course without schooling and practicing the different types of questions presented? No...anyone who does is asking for problems. But any Novice rider who hasn't schooled the more difficult questions of Prelim or Training despite a "balanced seat" education, is asking for problems as well.

I have thought of putting you on ignore...as it would be peaceful for both of us...but I'm not quite there yet. I do find it amusing how you manage to insult specific people (read: me) without directing comments at anyone in particular. You've made it an art, even.

Fluffie
Mar. 30, 2007, 08:28 PM
It's interesting. You can post specific informational points here on the eventing board and the H/J riders will respond with what they feel are counter points. They will post pictures of jumps that fall down as a counter point to how a leg dragging on a solid jump can roll a horse. They will post oblique personal disparaging remarks, obfuscations, emotional invalidations, minimizations and so on, but they will ever admit that their H/J seat was intentionally designed for the H/J show ring and is largely ineffective in other more demanding settings.

I can only suppose that their attitude has developed as a result of the H/J scene being the largest segment of “English” riding in America for the past 30 years. I further suppose that by virtue of their greater numbers that they feel entitled to dominate discussions such as this, and define reality in their terms, all the while accusing anyone who challenges their “majority rules” entitlement as bashing them.

The one leg dragging in a diagonal line over a solid jump is only one example of many specifics that simply makes eventing more difficult and more dangerous than show riding, and thus the requirements of the rider greater. Yes, the BN and N levels are simpler, but these more recently added levels were never included as full representations of the sport. So, H/Jers defend the supposed equality of your seat’s method with all the techniques mentioned above, warp yourselves in BN and N, and talk about trees while you ignore the forest. Still, I will mention that becoming aware of your illusions might be an advantage to you. :)

I, too, find it interesting that people can post theories and support them with historical proof, giving the air of extreme knowledge on one particular discipline, and then insert generalizations and extremely narrowly based accusations on another discipline expecting them to believed without question.

However, if people would bother to fully educate themselves on both sides of the topic rather than pontificating, they could become aware of their own illusions. For example, let us examine the falacy that hunt seat is a "static" posture. If one takes the time to peruse HSE by GM, one would learn that there are numerous passages that explain that the basic position must be modified based on situation, i. e. jumping on uneven terrain, jumping at speed, riding strong horses, etc. In addition, a reading of this text would enlighten people by explaining that the crest release is merely a stepping stone to the automatic, much like BN/N levels are a step towards a loftier goal.

To further the examples, I'd like to relate my own experiences. I have ridden a pulling, bull-headed, former event horse to state championships in both hunters and eq. My position on him wasn't textbook--my leg was too far ahead (to brace against him) among other things, but the judges realized it worked, so it worked. I rode that horse (as do I others) in open fields, jumping on less-than-flat ground. I hunted him and showed him over outside courses of solid obstacles (as did my barnmates with their critters). And then, horror of all horrors, I cliniced with GM himself--"schooling over natural obstacles" on my TB greenie. We jumped logs, up/down banks, over hedges, went to grandmother's house and back, etc. Despite the fact that I've never had a "balanced seat" lesson in my life, I managed to NOT 1) kill myself 2) kill my horse 3) become ineffective/out of balance.

A truly amazing feat for a prissy show hunter rider and her faulty teachings! :lol:

roastedtoasted
Mar. 30, 2007, 08:28 PM
WOOWAH! I couldn't find the end! Sorry guys, but I did not take all the princess, ect remarks as an attack on the OP. Horseguy didn't do any namecalling. He was talking about the people who do and don't. He is hoping to lump Greystone in with the better group. He wasn't accusing the OP of anything. He just wants to see better people join the eventer ranks, rather than poseurs. I went back and thoroughly reread everything, and Horseguy is saying worry about performance more than appearance. I believe that in eventing safety plays a huge role. I saw the photos of a pony ridden by a too large person (Greystone) who is jumping up the pony's neck. Sorry, but you are. On a larger horse, maybe not, but on 13.1, you are. On the cross country course that could get you killed. Even over two feet. That pony is much more maneuverable than you are, especially when you have committed so much of your body weight forward. It may not be a spook or a refusal, but a loss of footing on the backside?! Remember Christopher Reeve? He was a long tall rider on a too small horse. There is something to be said for suitability. And ability, (which we believe you have. Your position is lovely, but even old George would find fault.) However, you will go and have a freaky deaky ball with that cute pony. You should really shorten your stirrups for jumping and ride with a little more guarded posture. The suggestions that you jump outside the ring on hills is really good for both you and the pony. As a footnote, I too am a H/J rider, but I have ridden everything from Saddlebreds to Paso Finos to Foxhunters to Eventers to Dressage horses, ad nauseum. I even did circus tricks/stunt horse stuff one crazy summer when I was young and dumb. That is why I know there is a different way to ride different disciplines. So ease up on horseguy. He just wants the discipline to progress with serious horse people. The H/J world is no different. ps I understand your wanting the dress code info, but really for that level it's the same for dressage and stadium at that level as it would be for the traditional hunter ring. The cross country is a little different. And like the hunters, you will get mixed reviews with bling. I personally am a purist, but you go have fun and let us know all the details!! Next I suggest skydiving.

horseguy
Mar. 30, 2007, 10:34 PM
Let us examine the falacy that hunt seat is a "static" posture. If one takes the time to peruse HSE by GM, one would learn that there are numerous passages that explain that the basic position must be modified based on situation…
I do not think anyone has said that, “hunt seat is a "static" posture”. However, today's crest release with the rider's hands planted on the neck and the rider leaning on those hands (and wrists, and arms, and elbows, and sometimes even chin) is a static form in relation to the horse’s movements.

This is not to say that there are not riders taught by competent H/J instructors who can balance in the irons and not become a static lump of weight up on the neck. The problem is there are too few of these competent H/J instructors who have even read Morris’ book. Unlike the contemporary Big Name Trainers like Parelli, who have kept legal control of their name and trademarks, Morris being the first BNT didn’t know, I guess, to keep control of his method. 35 yeas of judge's “interpretations” and instructor's “innovations", or as they like to call them “evolutions”, have made HSE is what it is today.

The post that contains this quote is typical of the obfuscations that show up here. The post before it assumes somehow that everything I post is about the author, which of course is an illusion or worse. Please read more carefully. :) Thank you.

roastedtoasted, the diversity in your riding is the thing that makes for a real horseman (term inclusive of women).

VCT
Mar. 30, 2007, 11:14 PM
Yes, the BN and N levels are simpler, but these more recently added levels were never included as full representations of the sport.

Huh... I guess I won't ever be a full representative of the sport then.

I doubt my blown out back and arthritic knees will ever support me going more than Novice.

Wow, you know, a couple of great names in eventing have remarked more than once that it is the lower levels that keep the sport alive.

Fluffie
Mar. 30, 2007, 11:17 PM
I do not think anyone has said that, “hunt seat is a "static" posture”. However, today's crest release with the rider's hands planted on the neck and the rider leaning on those hands (and wrists, and arms, and elbows, and sometimes even chin) is a static form in relation to the horse’s movements.

This is not to say that there are not riders taught by competent H/J instructors who can balance in the irons and not become a static lump of weight up on the neck. The problem is there are too few of these competent H/J instructors who have even read Morris’ book. Unlike the contemporary Big Name Trainers like Parelli, who have kept legal control of their name and trademarks, Morris being the first BNT didn’t know, I guess, to keep control of his method. 35 yeas of judge's “interpretations” and instructor's “innovations", or as they like to call them “evolutions”, have made HSE is what it is today.

The post that contains this quote is typical of the obfuscations that show up here. The post before it assumes somehow that everything I post is about the author, which of course is an illusion or worse. Please read more carefully. :) Thank you.

roastedtoasted, the diversity in your riding is the thing that makes for a real horseman (term inclusive of women).

Actually, I was making an allusion to a previous thread that you posted on accusing HS of all the evils of the world, including global warming. ;)

Having said that, I think that we've all (insinuatingly) insulted each other's riding seat equally, so hopefully this thread can now get back to the OP's original point: What world am I entering by becoming an eventer? While the thread is full of many, many ignorant (meaning not knowledgable rather than stupid, which is not my implication at all) statements about HS, it has been very informative on the eventing theory side.

horseguy
Mar. 31, 2007, 08:07 AM
Actually, I was making an allusion to a previous thread that you posted on accusing HS of all the evils of the world, including global warming.
You misquoted me, and now are trying to wiggle out of it adding more innuendo about nonsense. Get real.

horseguy
Mar. 31, 2007, 08:26 AM
Huh... I guess I won't ever be a full representative of the sport then.

I doubt my blown out back and arthritic knees will ever support me going more than Novice.

Wow, you know, a couple of great names in eventing have remarked more than once that it is the lower levels that keep the sport alive.
Using your bad back and knees to obtain pity and deliver an oblique criticism of my posts is a little disappointing. If you disagree with my statement, why don’t you post something specific and factual that disputes it? Then a discussion can take place.

Regarding, “a couple of great names in eventing have remarked more than once that it is the lower levels that keep the sport alive” is absolutely true in terms of financial viability. Is that what you mean?

enjoytheride
Mar. 31, 2007, 12:55 PM
I have steered myself toward the sport of eventing because I have found eventers to be some of the nicest people around. I love going to an event and having the audience clap just as loudly at a prelim rider taking the water obstacle at a gallop as the Starter rider WALKING into the water.

Perhaps I need to change my mind.

I think ignoring the faults within your own discipline is just as bad as only pointing out the faults in someone else's discipline.

I have seen plenty of eventers not releasing at all and landing on their horse's back over the fence as I have seen hunters ducking and over releasing. Is one "safer" or one "prettier?" I could provide you with dozens of pictures of hunters laying on the neck, and just as well provide you with plenty of photos of eventers water skiing.

Do we bash one sport while giving our own sport excuses?

Or instead, maybe we can look at the flaws within our own riding styles and that of others and determine what is best for both horse and rider at the time.

criss
Mar. 31, 2007, 01:47 PM
Please, Horseguy. You can pretend everyone else is in denial or stupid or looking for sympathy or whatever...but the reality is, you are making an @$$ of yourself. You are being insulting, rude, and myopic. Most of us here can't hear your points because your tone is so obnoxious. That's counterproductive. If you actually want to get a point across, stop waving your d!(& around and start actually communicating about the issue, rather than being insulting. If what you want is to feel important at everyone else's expense, though, go for it, I guess.

Oh, and "____men" does not "include women". You may not think it matters, but refusing to use perfectly good nongendered language like "horsepeople" instead of "horsemen", you are perpetuating the patriarchal construct in which men are normal, person=man, and women are afterthoughts. It's not all that important on an individual basis, it's not like each time someone uses male-gendered language to mean "everyone" it sets women back ten years, but it's still there. It matters some. If it feels really awkward to use nongendered language in a particular situation, sure--there are some times when the nongendered word is completely ridiculous and I refuse to use it--but don't pretend it doesn't matter.

sunhawk
Mar. 31, 2007, 01:50 PM
Since this thread has gotten way off topic from the original, I thought I'd throw this out there -- as it was pointed out, the lower levels support the sport. I remember a time when the lowest level was training, the jumps were way scarier looking, with open upright verticals, and open oxers, that are just about nonexistent now. The only horses and riders that moved on to eventing were the really well schooled brave jumpers and really good riders, and a lot of those horses and riders moved on to the upper levels, since the four levels that existed were stepping stones to world class eventing.
Was awesome looking at Rayer's pics, including the one swimming lol.
I too, think you are going to have an awesome time eventing. And I think you are a strong enough individual to not let the negative posters get to you. If I could be there, I'd be cheering for you.

VCT
Mar. 31, 2007, 08:08 PM
Using your bad back and knees to obtain pity and deliver an oblique criticism of my posts is a little disappointing. If you disagree with my statement, why don’t you post something specific and factual that disputes it? Then a discussion can take place.

Regarding, “a couple of great names in eventing have remarked more than once that it is the lower levels that keep the sport alive” is absolutely true in terms of financial viability. Is that what you mean?


I'm not looking for pity. I'm stating a fact. The fact is that physically I will probably never be able to move up in the sport. It's not due to lack of a talented horse, money, or whatever else... it's due to me. Regardless, even if a competitor had no reason for not moving up beyond just being happy just running the lower levels - I don't think theres anything wrong with that.

At any rate, I was simply trying to point out that viewing the lower levels from the perspective that they are not fully representative, or fully part, of the sport and voicing those opinions to the public at large is like saying you don't need the legs you are standing on.

Yes, financially the lower levels keep the sport alive. But, in addition to that, it is the many lower level riders (or aspiring lower level riders, like myself) who make it possible for you to compete. I became interested in switching to eventing in the last year or so. I've already spent numerous days helping to organize, set stadium courses, jump judging, etc. And I've been very happy to cheer on the riders at all levels.

For eventing to be sucessful as a sport in the future and garner even more interest, I believe we should try to make everyone feel they are an important part of the sport. Volunteers, judges, spectators, lower level riders, upper level riders, etc... I think they are all full representatives of the sport wether they ever run BN or Advanced or nothing at all. Without all of them, the sport would not be able to continue for any level.

frugalannie
Mar. 31, 2007, 08:39 PM
Hear, hear, VCT.

And we're also the ones who fund pros by taking lessons and attending clinics. No, we don't aspire to be in the Olympics. We just aspire to be the best we can, and then a bit better. And next year, a bit better than that. And really enjoy the process: every minute of it whether an up or a down.

Too tired; can't think. Back to the folks with real brains... ( and that includes you, Horseguy)

Dr. Doolittle
Mar. 31, 2007, 09:00 PM
Touche', VCT! :yes: You nailed it, and good for you! (On all levels! ;))

And thank you, enjoytheride, for your very sensible analysis and comments...(And they have nary a whiff of condecension! ;))

LisaB
Apr. 1, 2007, 10:06 AM
Hey have y'all taken a look at horseguy's website? I would have have called out troll a long time ago but he is legit by posting his website.
This is not your typical eventer, guys. In fact, I haven't been around eventer this annoying and self righteous (and all the other points the others have made) ever in eventing land. He torques me to no end.
And btw, your jumps stink! Have you heard that ground lines are especially important when schooling?
ugh!

hb
Apr. 1, 2007, 12:26 PM
I see a lot on Horseguy's website about clinics and schooling, but no mention of actually competing in events currently. So he might not be representative of "eventers" if that is defined as people who compete in events, and the OP probably won't run into him at a competition.

Pictob
Apr. 1, 2007, 07:53 PM
As a hunter/jumper rider I was doing my best to avoid responding but what the hell...

Horseguy for someone who promotes themselves as this coach and apparently knows so much about eventing you sure don't sound like any coach I would even send my worst nightmare too..Sitting and being critical and demeaning to other disciplines is ridiculous and makes me think that you A) Either have NO first hand knowledge of the hunter/jumper world or B) You tried it and failed...Why else would you be sooo sour about something you don't even compete in..


You might be surprised. Riders may generally know that there is a difference, but do they understand the specific differences? This is an important point because it us usually the specifics that come around and bite you in the butt, or put you in the hospital

And you might be surprised at the amount of riders that DO understand the difference and respect the specifics. A good rider is a versatile rider and knows and can adjust to the difference in rings/fences/pace etc..No matter what discipline they are coming from or too.

Funny this hunt seat you go on about would get someone seriously hurt on a cross country course, and while I don't agree that it can happen please take some time to ask Waylon Roberts about his hunt seat that he kicked ass with on the National Circuit in the hunters & jumpers and then turned around and kicked ass in the eventing world and hell he's only 19...pretty sure he had to use a crest release for that one and oh look he still kicked ass. If our hunter/jumper world is so awful please explain why so many eventers are crossing over throughout the show season and doing both..hmm...

Pretty sure Jazzy's comment wasn't at all asking for your thoughts on how to correctly ride a fence, pretty sure her olympic level coach could answer that for her if she wanted to know, but wait then again she's one of the younger riders of the sport so maybe she's useless in it anyways!?:confused:

While I see your perspective on the dangers of cross-country courses all jumping is dangerous regardless! As riders we know this and obviously have accepted it or are no longer jumping. Yes a solid fence is very dangerous but having your horse dangle his front or hind feet through a stadium fence and having loose tangled poles is not much safer. There are dangers in each discipline and we are faced with them every time we rider, just because someone choses to jump the solid fences or show jumping fences doesn't make them any better or worse of a rider...

p.s
I’d like to suggest that educating children who have been reared under the misguided notion that self esteem is more important than character is a waste of time
Self-esteem is confidence and confidence is needed in any equestrian dicipline...oh and it's a PART of building character maybe you should educate yourself on that...

Whisper
Apr. 3, 2007, 02:51 PM
Regarding, “a couple of great names in eventing have remarked more than once that it is the lower levels that keep the sport alive” is absolutely true in terms of financial viability. Is that what you mean?

I know this isn't directed at me, but I think it's ironic that you posted it when Denny Emerson was so encouraging to the OP on the first page! I seriously doubt he had a financial motivation for it. While the lower levels probably do bring in more money to the sport, since there are more horses and people competing below Training than above, people have to start somewhere! I think getting people hooked at the BN level, or unrecognized lower levels, is great! Personally, I don't really expect to get above Training. Physically, I might be able to do it, and I might find the Preliminary jumps less intimidating with the right horse, if I become a good enough rider to try to move up to that level.

horseguy
Apr. 3, 2007, 03:35 PM
I began my involvement on this thread by pointing out how the entitled, trendy, snobby, etc. mindset (found largely elsewhere, gee where?) has entered what was at one time a very down to earth athletically based equestrian sport. Quite frankly the personal attacks that seem to be piling up here only confirm my assertion.

enjoytheride
Apr. 3, 2007, 04:33 PM
Then maybe you can go away and not come back.

I welcome everyone to the sport of eventing, and I am proud that eventers are some of the friendliest non judgemental people I know. The OP seemed very excited, youthful, curious, and willing to learn about a very different world then hers.

If you care to read back most of the people "attacking" you ARE eventers who are concerned about you giving someone venturing in a bad taste.

Ibex
Apr. 3, 2007, 09:55 PM
I'm pretty sure HorseGuy quit another board in a snit a while back. Maybe he'll go away here too?

Oh, and to the OP (provided we haven't scared you away):

1. Cute pony
2. Have fun!!!
3. Welcome to the dark side.

Lisamarie8
Apr. 3, 2007, 10:29 PM
I began my involvement on this thread by pointing out how the entitled, trendy, snobby, etc. mindset (found largely elsewhere, gee where?) has entered what was at one time a very down to earth athletically based equestrian sport. Quite frankly the personal attacks that seem to be piling up here only confirm my assertion.
Funny, cause I still find eventing to be filled with friendly, well-grounded, eager-to-help horseman.

Every where you go, there you are, I guess.

LE
Apr. 3, 2007, 10:37 PM
Hey there! I went from hunters to eventing many years ago, and the attire at the lower levels of eventing is pretty much consistent with hunters. Ie. You can wear beige breeches and a navy jacket(or black). My coach said you only bring out the 'penguin suit' for the higher levels, and in that case, you'd do the whole deal.

Many posters have pointed out very necessary rules such as standing martingales are not legal in eventing. You must have a body protector/vest, proper helmet/head gear and in Canada, you need a medical armband.(not sure if that is manditory in the US).

Also remember, you must go to tack check before each phase, prior to competition. This was my biggest worry--I knew about tack check, but I was terrified I'd forget. You must have your horse's tack/gear checked before each phase to make sure tack is legal and fitten properly. Failure to get your tack checked before any phase is an automatic elimination(in Canada, anyhow).

If you can get a polo shirt styled show blouse, I found that the best--it's a cotton white shirt that you can tie a stock tie to it, then it unbuttons and becomes a polo shirt which is perfect for XC(and your vest fits over it nicely). It just saves time for changing.

Have a blast! Once you event, you'll be addicted!!! I love the hunter ring, but there's NOTHING like galloping XC!!

LE
Apr. 3, 2007, 10:48 PM
I just have to add that this pony is ADORABLE!! What a cutie!

I haven't read all the threads, because it seems as if some personal stuff is going on.

While hunter style is different to eventing, my only response to that is is there any way you can go out and school at the venue you are showing at prior to the event? This might be to your advantage, so you know how your pony will respond to being on XC, and how to ride XC fences. As someone said, even a 2ft XC fence can be dangerous if you don't ride it properly.

My only concern is for your balance--you are short legged, but long torsoed. That puts you at a slight disadvantage if that pony throws in a quick stop. However, I still think you will be fine and have a hoot!

See if you can school XC before you go. You want to know how your horse handles the types of XC fences he will be shown. I'm not sure what the US division is in equivelant of Canada, but height wise, you are equal to our Entry Level. For us, at Entry, we have no water fences, and drops are a certain height, and there are no combinations etc. Check your rule booklet(usually available online) to find out what is expected of your pony before you head out there. Keep us posted and let us know how you do!!

fullmoon fever
Apr. 4, 2007, 01:05 AM
Just have fun. Don`t sweat the small stuff like dressage, etc.
When you come flying through the x-c finish flags in one piece, you`ll know what all the fuss is about. It`s pure euphoria, and the more scared you are BEFORE the more joy you will feel AFTER!
All the rest is trivia.
(In my opinion)

How right you are!

I so miss going x-country and am just waiting to find out when my knee surgery is scheduled to see if I can finally get back to it this year. I've been away far too long and I've even become a weenie about jumping. :sigh:

How I long for that feeling of swooping down through the finish flags and knowing that the grin won't be off my face until the next day (bugs in teeth and all). :D

Trixie
Apr. 4, 2007, 10:32 AM
Either myself or Greystone (and hunters in general) has been called: a flashy brat, a child, misguided, of faulty character, complusive, self-important, entitled, immune to reason, narcissistic, undisciplined, lazy, in possession of an overgrown ego, motivated by competition, lacking commitment, non-horsemen, lacking substance, a princess, a loud mouth, supported/dependent on our parent's checkbook or someone else's bankroll.

I wandered over here after being directed from another board and I quote someone there when I say "Yeah, there's a pompous ass in that thread, and it's not the hunter princess."

If you want to suggest that the OP ride with an event trainer first, that's one thing, or politely mention the differences between riding a typical hunter course and riding an XC course - but the amount of blatant nastiness directed at someone who obviously wants to learn and have a good time at your entry levels is horrifying to me. Not to mention the amount of nastiness towards another discipline. It's really ugly.

A good rider is a good rider in ANY discipline. Ass-u-ming that all hunter riders never leave the ring is a mistake. Most I've met are perfectly capable of riding a lower level event course, and most of them HAVE done so successfully. Growing up in a very hunter-"snob" oriented barn (show ponies) we jumped XC, hunted, rode over uneven terrain. Our trainers wanted us to learn as much as possible about everything. Because that's how we became better horsepeople - which is what we wanted to be.

Yes, we too learned to ride stoppers, we learned to gallop bareback (and play that dollar bill game), we played with our ponies. Did our trainer gain financially from letting us canter round bareback with a dollar bill stuck under our leg? Not hardly. But she produced better riders. And better riders made better rounds. We were never told to duck. I'm not even going to say a word about the photos on the page of the person being the most nasty.

And yes, the clothes count, on some level. Some of us feel better about ourselves when we're dressed the part (and more confident that we won't get eliminated over something stupid!). If more confidence makes you ride a little better or feel a little less nervous, I'm all for it!

I'm so glad the rest of you don't seem to feel that this person speaks for you. I found some of the opinions in this thread to be very disappointing.

Trixie
Apr. 4, 2007, 10:37 AM
Reed, may I add? What a FABULOUS picture!!!!!!!!!!!!

magnolia73
Apr. 4, 2007, 11:11 AM
Trixie-
You are a great example of an HP who can ride. Perhaps post some photos of you out schooling XC. They'd make a lot of people eat their words.

NeverTime
Apr. 4, 2007, 11:47 AM
:no: I saw this topic at the top of the list again and thought it meant Greystone had done her event and was reporting back. Instead, it's a bunch of negative back and forth. Poo. :no:

RAyers
Apr. 4, 2007, 11:53 AM
I'm waiting too!

Reed

Everythingbutwings
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:01 PM
It's going cross country in the flatter hunter saddle that Trixie amazes me with! I hop that stuff one at a time in an older Stubben Siegfried. I need something to dig my knees into!

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/8745337/119503330.jpg

She can stay on Maddie in that saddle when spooky things blow by. I'm in awe.

Everythingbutwings
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:07 PM
Maddie adored the water. :)

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/8745337/119503303.jpg

If a rider can maintain that leg position through a combination coming uphill, she's doing something right, AND having a blast!

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/8745337/119503309.jpg

Trixie
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:10 PM
Dammit, ETBW, just go and post the photos of me on the day my hair fell out of my hat. If anyone on the H/J forum sees this I'll be positively disowned.

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/8745337/119503308.jpg

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/8745337/119503474.jpg

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/13832131/206495831.jpg

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/10351751/148775260.jpg From a clinic with an eventer!

I assume now y'all are going to nail on my crest release... :D

LisaB
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:17 PM
See? That's exactly what I see when a properly trained hunter rider goes out eventing. They totally nail every jump with ease and style. How about giving us some lessons on keeping that lower leg nailed to the saddle?
Anyway,
Greystone? Where are thou, Greystone?
Even if you didn't win or maybe had a little dirt lunch, we will want to know if you like eventing or not. Maybe horseguy came all the way to NJ to harrass you on your perfect release and perfect leg position? Or the pink shirt you were wearing.

Everythingbutwings
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:17 PM
Between Houndsears the year before and Trixie last spring, I about burst with pride over the nice things Tarsha Hammond had to say about that horse. She was surprised he's all TB. :)

For anyone new to the sport, don't let the negative talk keep you from having a blast eventing. The people we've met and associated with have been great fun and totally supportive. Most importantly, our horses think they've died and gone to Horsie Disney.

Trixie
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:19 PM
wait... what's wrong with the pink shirt? :lol:

magnolia73
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:34 PM
mmmmmm....whats with the rust breeches.......
Maybe you are not really the HP you advertise yourself to be Miss Trixie.

Trixie
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:39 PM
Rust is back. :D

Everythingbutwings
Apr. 4, 2007, 12:46 PM
Fess up, Trixie!

She wears them in honor of Kennett Square, tiara wearing HP, who also took a trip to the dark side long ago.


"And I said that F.E.I. rules state there will be no livestock on course!"

oldbutnotdead
Apr. 4, 2007, 01:00 PM
so, everythingbutwings, I recall, vaguely, that you had killer recipes for cheesy olives and mini quiches. Could you pt me with the recipes, and so as not to hijack this thread completely, and perhaps the OP too, so we can make such delights and take them to events to keep, and make, new eventer friends?

OP - you will have fun with us!

Beam Me Up
Apr. 4, 2007, 01:00 PM
I'm guessing most of us would have been LUCKY to have 10 yrs as a h/j pro under our belts at our first BN event.

I was a loose seated young teen on a minimally controlled backyard horse, who wanted to try eventing because my neighbor was doing it, got hooked, learned and improved.

And that's probably a much more common scenario than coming to eventing as a pro in another over-fences discipline.

While I agree that the defensive, often behind-the-motion riding necessary for upper level x-c is probably not taught in h/j, as it would just make the h/j horse's job more difficult, it isn't really a safety issue at BN--there aren't bounces, rein-slipping drops, coffins, etc.

It sounds like the OP is far more qualified for BN than a lot of competitors will be, so go out there and have fun. If you decide that you want to switch to eventing, there will be plenty of time to learn the intricacies of serious x-c riding.

Good luck!

Everythingbutwings
Apr. 4, 2007, 01:18 PM
PT sent!

Synrgystyk
Apr. 4, 2007, 01:22 PM
When did Maddie get so *white*??!!!

I was thinking about you this past weekend as we were schooling the Training stuff at FPP. I think you were there (as was Kennett Square, sarapony, and several others) when I brought Spice to FPP for our introduction to XC.

Lorree

Redline Guy
Apr. 4, 2007, 01:54 PM
wait... what's wrong with the pink shirt? :lol:
The same thing that wrong with blue eyeshadow! :lol::lol::lol:

LisaB
Apr. 4, 2007, 02:02 PM
And black eyeliner!
Or mini skirts after 30!

LE
Apr. 4, 2007, 04:43 PM
Trixie!! AWESOME photos!!! What level did you event to? Looks like Prelim for the last jump. Gorgeous horses too!!!

All riders have to start somewhere and Hunters are not a bad place to start. Too many people have a pre-concieved notion of what hunters are. Sure, there are those who want things a certain way, but that doesn't make them a good rider. Spending hours of time in the saddle, working their butts off wins the awards, not just perching and sitting pretty.(as some would like to believe)

Trixie
Apr. 4, 2007, 05:38 PM
I'm just a dabbling hunter princess :) I don't compete. But I school XC plenty, and I try to learn as much as I can about all horse sports.

I was just trying to make the point that some of us hunter folk go outside a ring once in a while. I borrowed a vest, purchased an armband, and off we went. The horses love it and the people always have a blast. We also did a clinic with Tarsha Hammond (the last photo) and went foxhunting - for the heck of it. But again - I'm a hunter rider.

I get tired of hearing that "They will post oblique personal disparaging remarks, obfuscations, emotional invalidations, minimizations and so on, but they will ever admit that their H/J seat was intentionally designed for the H/J show ring and is largely ineffective in other more demanding settings" and the impression that we're all spoiled brats that are going to get dumped off and killed the second we step out of a ring. It's as saddening and disappointing to read as all the "will I be disqualified if my bootsocks don't match my panties" threads.


He just wants to see better people join the eventer ranks, rather than poseurs.

Sure, but again - the OP was asking about rules and current trends, not about riding techniques. Perhaps she asks those questions of someone she clinic'd with, or an outside trainer, or some such. And one photo from one moment in time does not a poseur make. Granted, I didn't see the photo, but still.

The OP came here to ask FOR HELP.
Were I competing, I'd be asking the same questions, because I want to get things RIGHT :) and preferably, not stick out too much!

RugBug
Apr. 4, 2007, 07:28 PM
I'm just a dabbling hunter princess :) I don't compete. But I school XC plenty, and I try to learn as much as I can about all horse sports.


Wow, Trixie...those pictures are fantastic! I've always been jealous of the Frying Pan crew. You can have my CA warm beach riding in winter if I can have some FP outings. :winkgrin:

Everythingbutwings
Apr. 4, 2007, 07:41 PM
I feel extremely fortunate that Houndsears took my Wings to MEI for this clinic in 2005. Even more so that KateDB supported the notion and clued me in to the great opportunity so that, when I was able to send the horse again, Trixie, HP extraordinaire, rose to the occasion and presented herself as rider for another round in early 2006.

Not once during the dressage, show jumping or X country lessons, did I hear a word from the clinician that was negative regarding disciplines. Rather, she was wholeheartedly supportive and encouraging to bring out the best in both horse and rider. :)

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/10351751/148755960.jpg

Wings hasn't been entered in an event but he has schooled the course at Frying Pan, schooled Rubicon by way of myself, the Winglet, as well as my husband volunteering, played at REAL cross country by trail riding and fox hunting, cliniced with an olympic squad coach and he's loving it all. :)

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/10351751/148756370.jpg

As far as I can tell, going on a cross country course for my horse is akin to taking a kid to the State Fair, with a full pass for the rides and enough food money for a good belly ache. :yes:

Pixie Dust & Wings over the Table at Rubicon:

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/13832131/208569813.jpg

Our favorite HP out of the water:

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/13832131/208552869.jpg

Houndsie over the stone wall at the top of the ridge:

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/13832131/206495835.jpg

And again at the brush in the woods:

Houndsears: http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/8744878/119495205.jpg

Trixie: http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL936/3762429/8744878/119495200.jpg

I am blessed with a good natured horse that loves his job, good friends who are excellent riders and fall into my ridiculous plots and are willing to offer themselves up for fox hunt camps, clinics, schooling opportunities and what not.

Riding should be FUN, not just for us but, most imporantly, for the horses. I am thrilled to see how much they enjoy their outings. :)

Trixie
Apr. 4, 2007, 08:38 PM
:D One day I'll be independently wealthy and I will winter in CA on Rugbug's beach and she'll come here for Virginia FPP summers. :D

RugBug
Apr. 5, 2007, 01:35 PM
:D One day I'll be independently wealthy and I will winter in CA on Rugbug's beach and she'll come here for Virginia FPP summers. :D

Sounds like a deal to me...as long as ETBW still does the catering. Mouth watering goodness...at least from the internet telling of it. :yes: :lol:

GreystoneKC
Apr. 6, 2007, 08:55 AM
Hey guys! I didn't disappear! I just thought my thread died and I was going to come back after my event - which hasn't happened yet, by the way (for those of you who might have thought I took a swim and wouldn't own up to it! LOL).

Warning: I have a lot of posts coming.

This one I am directing towards HorseGuy.
HorseGuy, seriously. First, I want to commend you on a few things. You have an amazing vocabulary. Too bad you have no clue how to communicate. If you spent nearly as much time thinking of effective ways to get your points across as you do looking up words in your thesaurus, you might not have people on this thread BEGGING for you to disappear! Also, you seem to have a very nifty XC course at your place. Looks like tons of fun and variety. I'd love to come ride it sometime, but you'd probably be too worried about me killing myself of your property to allow that.

Second, everyone seems to be skirting certain things, but I'm going to call you out on it. You talk a good show, but I'd just like to point out that for someone who claims to be so superior in the eventing world, you sure show of a lot of terrible photos on your website.

Page 1- Only rider- looks confident and secure
Page 2 - Pic 2- feet way too far through stirrup, hard to tell anything else. Pic 4 - Rider ducking severely, very broken line bit-elbow and apparent lower leg slip, horse jumping terribly. Pic 5 - probably a nice little up-and-comer, however here "posing" rather than being effective. Pic 8 - Uhg, sitting ON the horse on landing...
Page 3 - Pic 2 - Sitting on horse, leg shoved out in front, no weight in heel or connection with leg, hitting horse in mouth (admitting that maybe this is proper way to ride a jump on a downbank and I wouldn't know, but it should doesn't sound right.). Pic 5 - heel up, leg back and pinching with knee, cortch over pommel and beginning to jump ahead.
Page 4 - Pic 2 - not the most stylish kid, but I'd love to have her, strikes me as bold and tight, but needs to repositioning. Pic 4 - I'm starting to think you're supposed to haul on your horse's face on downbanks... Pic 7 - wow, a hunter rider! J/K, toe down, leg back, knee pinch, seat way to high and forward, massive duck w/no eye, broken line static crest release.
Page 5 - rider appears to have gotten her leg out front a bit and is dropping back into the saddle too early - something I really wouldn't want to do over a jump like this, however, she also strikes me as generally bold and effective.
Page 6 - Pic 4 - Normally I'd say not a stylist but effective, but you like to nit-pick us hunters for this stuff so... lack of flexibility in her ankle keeping her heel up, and not alloing her to sink down and around, keeping her seat closer to the saddle and encouraging her not to lay on her "POOR" horse's neck - oh and there's that crest release again... Pic 7 - Oh Lord. I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole.
Page 7 - Pic 2 - see last comment. Pic 3 - OMG, how cute! Pic 5 - Rider completely off balance, heel up, knee pinching, seat far too high and leaning to the right, very restrictive, static "release" (I say that because essentially, there is none) - and what is up with the rolled out pole? Do you guys find that safe??? Pic 7 - even from this angle I can tell that the leg is shoved out in front with no squeeze, rider is being left back, and with no release, is hauling on the "POOR" horse's mouth (who is jumping in a way that makes me fear for the man's life!)

Ok, I've had enough of this. Have you? See, I understand that a picture is a moment in time. I can tell however, from some of these pictures, that some of these riders are good effective riders and stylists, some are good effective riders and not generally stylists, some are seat-of-the-pants and having fun doing it, and some probably shouldn't be doing that AT ALL! But I'm judging their little moment in time.

And just for the record, while this is a public forum and you can technically say anything you want... you really shouldn't DARE judge me as a rider, trainer, or horseman after what I just saw. You may talk a good show (well, actually i don't really think you do that very well either), but a picture speaks a thousand words - don't ya think???

GreystoneKC
Apr. 6, 2007, 09:30 AM
PS Horseguy, the only thing I could think of wehn I saw your big "scary white gate jump was, "oh man, that would be sooooo much fun to figure 8 over!" I guess great minds think alike, huh RugBug??? LOL


That's why they make BN courses- so people can have a fun first time out and make mistakes without dire consequences.
Now I will say, I would not assume a 3'6 hunter rider could go and do Prelim right away..... that would be a potentially dangerous situation. Luckily, our brave hunter rider is heading out to do the BN division - a division that some good basics and decent horse will work for.

Thanks Magnolia, that was kindof my thinking. Though BN for my little pony is a bit bigger for him than it would be for a horse, but still.


Yes, the BN and N levels are simpler, but these more recently added levels were never included as full representations of the sport.QUOTE]

Wow, I can only assume you just pissed off a lot of people. Lower divisions keep your sport and mine afloat. Not only financially, but by bringing up young riders and horses and by allowing people to compete who have no desire/ability to go higher. I'm so sick of the H/J world bitching even about thsi same thing lately. "Let's make more a 4'6" hunter division!" You don't have anyone doing to 4ft as it is now!!! If no one develops good solid riders and sane, ridable, talented horses at the lower levels, where are you going to get your amazing upper level horses and riders?!?!? They don't grow on trees!!! Lower levels are designed to be inviting, safe, fun, and sometimes introducing certain challenges to move up to the next level. And that's how it should be.

[QUOTE=Fluffie;2330023]We jumped logs, up/down banks, over hedges, went to grandmother's house and back, etc. Despite the fact that I've never had a "balanced seat" lesson in my life, I managed to NOT 1) kill myself 2) kill my horse 3) become ineffective/out of balance.
A truly amazing feat for a prissy show hunter rider and her faulty teachings! :lol:

You go girl!!!!!


Horseguy didn't do any namecalling. (Oh YES he did!) He was talking about the people who do and don't. He is hoping to lump Greystone in with the better group. He wasn't accusing the OP of anything. (Oh YES he was!) He just wants to see better people join the eventer ranks, rather than poseurs. I went back and thoroughly reread everything, and Horseguy is saying worry about performance more than appearance. (And I say I can worry about both and still kick @$$) I believe that in eventing safety plays a huge role. (DITTO) I saw the photos of a pony ridden by a too large person (Greystone) who is jumping up the pony's neck. Sorry, but you are. On a larger horse, maybe not, but on 13.1, you are. (How about, it's "ducking", not jumping up the neck - you can't tell if I "jumped up the next" without seeing my ride to that jump. And yes, I never denied ducking, in fact I know I do it, and don't particularly care cause I can NOT do it when I want, aka on a XC course. But my pony "deals" just fine, you guys don't give him enough credit! LOL) On the cross country course that could get you killed. Even over two feet.(Don't worry about me, I'll fend for myself) That pony is much more maneuverable than you are, especially when you have committed so much of your body weight forward. It may not be a spook or a refusal, but a loss of footing on the backside?! Remember Christopher Reeve? He was a long tall rider on a too small horse. There is something to be said for suitability. (Wow, so you just compared me to someone who died cause he was doing soemthing he shouldn't have been doing, so essentially I'm going to die doing 2ft on my pony cause I duck in hunter pictures. Nice. Thanks.) And ability, (which we believe you have. Your position is lovely, but even old George would find fault.) (Um, you basically just ripped my position to shreds dear.) However, you will go and have a freaky deaky ball with that cute pony. (Thanks, I know he's hot, so does he) You should really shorten your stirrups for jumping and ride with a little more guarded posture. (If I shorten my stirrups any more than usual, I will be ON TOP of the pony!!!) The suggestions that you jump outside the ring on hills is really good for both you and the pony. (As I have and will continue to do, even though no one seems to notice when I say that....) As a footnote, I too am a H/J rider, but I have ridden everything from Saddlebreds to Paso Finos to Foxhunters to Eventers to Dressage horses, ad nauseum. I even did circus tricks/stunt horse stuff one crazy summer when I was young and dumb. That is why I know there is a different way to ride different disciplines. So ease up on horseguy. (No thanks, he deserves it) He just wants the discipline to progress with serious horse people. (Then he should get more serious with his own students.) The H/J world is no different. ps I understand your wanting the dress code info, but really for that level it's the same for dressage and stadium at that level as it would be for the traditional hunter ring. The cross country is a little different. And like the hunters, you will get mixed reviews with bling. I personally am a purist, but you go have fun and let us know all the details!! Next I suggest skydiving. (True Dat! LOL)

My comments are above in parenthasis...


However, today's crest release with the rider's hands planted on the neck and the rider leaning on those hands (and wrists, and arms, and elbows, and sometimes even chin) is a static form in relation to the horse’s movements.
Oh you mean like the one that 90% of the people in the photos on your website are using????? Wow, go awesome trainer go.

GreystoneKC
Apr. 6, 2007, 10:02 AM
Then maybe you can go away and not come back.

I welcome everyone to the sport of eventing, and I am proud that eventers are some of the friendliest non judgemental people I know. The OP seemed very excited, youthful, curious, and willing to learn about a very different world then hers..

You go girl. And thanks, Enjoy, I especially like the "youthful" comment these days!!!


Oh, and to the OP (provided we haven't scared you away):
1. Cute pony
2. Have fun!!!
3. Welcome to the dark side.

Ha! I'm still around, just didn't know my thread had popped back up! Thanks!


I just have to add that this pony is ADORABLE!! What a cutie!!!

Thanks LE! I've been working him a lot lately. I'm quite lucky as I am the H/J trainer at www.saddlebrookridge.com so I have access to a very nice little XC course, which I've been to twice to school lately. Last time I worked on the up and down banks, cantering through water (which was way too deep too!), and jumping some jumps which I had deemed too "big and scary" before - all the while working on NO DUCKING! LOL Oh, and leaning back on down banks! Hey Horseguy, check out our video tour and maybe you'll have a little more respect! And LE, thank you for being the first and only person to point out my true disadvantage on my pony - my SUPER TALL upper body and complete lack of leg!!! LOL Trust me, I'm aware of it!!!


Yes, we too learned to ride stoppers, we learned to gallop bareback (and play that dollar bill game), we played with our ponies. Did our trainer gain financially from letting us canter round bareback with a dollar bill stuck under our leg? Not hardly. But she produced better riders. And better riders made better rounds.

LOL! I love you Trixie, and your killer little grey! I remember all those days of bareback jumping with halters and lead ropes in our muckers, though I always had a hard hat on! Mom wouldn't let me without it! Racing up and down sand dunes and jumping creeks - hey maybe I was an eventer from the beginning!?!? LOL I so agree that those days really made better riders.


Anyway,
Greystone? Where are thou, Greystone?
Even if you didn't win or maybe had a little dirt lunch, we will want to know if you like eventing or not. Maybe horseguy came all the way to NJ to harrass you on your perfect release and perfect leg position? Or the pink shirt you were wearing.

Hey Lisa! Nope, didn't take a swim! Just didn't do the event yet! :-) The 21st! Take that date down Horseguy! I want to see you there with bells and whistles to cheer me on!!!


Rust is back. :D

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
I prefer Purple Sage!!!

mjedge808
Apr. 6, 2007, 01:14 PM
GreystoneKC,
Glad to have you!

Back to the topic at hand, have a fun time, and above all, be safe! Better safe than dead. But you'll most likely have a great time.

One thing I didn't notice anyone say is that you may see people with their medical armbands on their boots. DO NOT FOLLOW ALONG. It needs to be on your ARM.

Oh, and I'm very happy for horseguy letting us know he has such a wide vocabulary...it's entertaining. GreystoneKC, just have fun, don't sweat the nonsense people, and sit down for a good ride. Oh, and don't leave the XC start box before 'GO!'.

GreystoneKC
Apr. 7, 2007, 04:18 PM
Where'd everybody go now? I come back and everyone else runs away!!! Anyone want to answer a few serious eventing questions?

VCT
Apr. 7, 2007, 04:38 PM
GreystoneKC, I'm sure if you ask your questions the answers will follow :)

GreystoneKC
Apr. 7, 2007, 10:49 PM
OK, so let's skip all the "go take a lesson" advice. If I get a chance before my event I do plan on working with someone, but for now, schooling on my own and with my Novice eventer friend, and you guys will have to do.

My biggest question has to do with up/down banks and just the general riding of them. I hear people talking about "slipping the reins", and I was assuming that this meant to allow the reins to side through your hands as your horse jumps down the banks. My friend, however, has not been taught to do this, and as he tried to explain it to me, I humourously dropped my reins entirely as we hopped down the bank (with me laughing hysterically the whole way!). It seems to me that it would be helpful to keep a feel of your horse's mouth to support them and keep their front end light as you land from the down bank, therefore helping them from "rolling" forward. I can figure out on my own that 2-pointing down the bank isn't a good idea, especially with my extra-tall upper body and shrimpy mount, but should I try to lean WAY back in the style I see in eventer's pictures? Do I just try to keep my upper body back and generally trying to help him balance (which is what I have been trying to do naturally). Does this upper body angle change with the height of the bank? And why does it always look like eventers are sitting in the saddle on the way down from pretty much everything?

Water. Is it usually really deep? The water complex at our farm was quite deep for my little guy - he almost had trouble cantering through it! I read in the rulebook, I believe it was a little over a foot or so... but I was wondering usually is it that deep or not? Cantering into the deeper water seems to take away a lot of your pace, any tips for this other than staying tall and pressing forward?

Dressage test. OK, so we're talking about a 13.1 hand pony here, he's not exactly a bendy-bus. Well, he does bend pretty well, but he doesn't come "on the bit" the way you think of it when you think or a big ole warmblood. I can keep a feel of his mouth and he "accepts" my hand, but it's generally in a very "pony" manner - nose poked out, not round through the topline. My plan is to try to execute the test correctly with sharp transitions and good circles, but what else should I focus on since he won't have the "look" of a big horse. Also, he has no concept of "free walk". He has 2 walks: walk on the bit (aka working walk) and walk on a loose rein (aka wandering around). Any tricks to encourage him to stretch down and forward while on the bit? I'm not looking to retrain him for one day per se, but just help aid our performance.

I'm starting to get quite excited. I had a great XC school last week where I jumped 2 jumps I'd been to apprehensive to jump before! Afer working out in the big schooling field over the banks, water, a roll top, a few various skinny jumps, and a big hill with a jump on top, we headed into the woods where I am (actually, I should say "was") a bit less brave. One of the "scary" jumps is an "oxer" style jump of wooden bars built to hold cut firewood that is a good 2'6" high and wide that cuts through the forrest and has a lot of leaves on takeoff and landing. The other jump sits in the middle of our big trail heading home, made of log pillars on either side with telephone pole-style rails, one close to the ground and one higher up, tied to it (I guess that's how it's made, I have no clue!). It has to be a good 2'9"+ as I'd always walked by it on the trails saying, "um, no way!" - since I'm not a big fan of jumps 3'0"+ that don't come down. After putting together a full "trip" of jumps through the woods - the "oxer", a coop, a tire jump, barrels, a log - my friend wanted to jump something "bigger" at the end, so I told him we'd go down that trail and he could jump the big jump on the way back out to the bridle path we would use to hack and cool out. I was planning on just passing it. Well, sure enough, as my and the Bandito galloped behind him and his big TB trying to keep up, I saw him pop up and over it and decided, "oh what the heck!" and just kept galloping right up and over it!!! My friend yelled back, "Did you just JUMP THAT???"

It was humourous, but I felt better doing it. I figure nothing at the event is going to be that big, and honestly, I didn't even move over it. I've been working on the ducking, people. LOL

Ok time to go to bed. Long day helping prepare Easter dinner tomorrow! Hope everyone has a great day!!!!

bornfreenowexpensive
Apr. 7, 2007, 11:12 PM
ok...wow...this thread got long. I just read the OPs last post. Jumping down the bank is easy. You are going to Flora Lea if I remember correctly. Their bank is a little hard but very do able if they run it like last year. Break your pony down to the trot or even walk. Keep your leg on but focus your eyes on an object off in the direction you will be going on landing (DO NOT LOOK DOWN THE BANK ;) ). Keep your shoulders up and open. You want to keep a feel of the pony's mouth and soften your hands. Let him pull the reins out of your hands....that is slipping the reins. Green horses will often pull down and look off the edge before jumping. This is fine. As long as he keeps going. It sounds like you schooled a few of them so it should be fine. You want to keep your feet a touch in front and think soft in your hips. As he drops down, it should open your hip angle a bit (let him open it...in other words, don't make a move but let the horses movement open your hips). At novice, it will not be a big drop but you want to try and land in the top of your thigh like you would coming off a large jump. Then kick on. Some times the green horses land in a bit of a heap. Idealy, they just step down....but my young horses have all usually LAUNCHed until they got the hang of things.

The water will not be very deep and you will just need to step in and trot through. There is usually a jump a stride or two after you come out of the water. The water at Flora Lea is very dark and murky (it is surrounded by trees and in the shadows)....it is a hard water for green horses but once you get in, you will be fine.

Dressage...don't worry about it. Just stay in the ring:D But keep the slack out of your reins and focus on keeping a very steady rhythmn. At novice...they really don't need to be "on" the bit and super round to score well....as long as they are accepting of the aids and he keeps a very steady and relaxed rhythmn, he should do fine.

Have fun!

come to think of it....if you are doing BN, they may not even have a bank. I've only ever done novice or training at that event.

Anyway...hope you have a blast and perhaps get out to more HTs!

kaluha2
Apr. 8, 2007, 08:55 AM
Greystone:

I'm over here cheering you on. As an old H/J girl turned dressage girl (seriously considering doing B/N with my little mare) you are inspiring. Just pray I don't break a hip!!

Also, thank you for laying it out for horseguy. Kudos.

As far as dressage goes. Your pony will only need to show acceptance of the bit. As far as stretching down in walk: think of it as when your walking or trotting over poles and you want the pony to stretch down through the topline over the poles, in a relaxed and loose way taking the rein down with him over the poles. Same thing.

Bending: Just enough bend for 20 meter circle.

If he tends to swing his haunches in on the long side then I would ride him in a shoulder-fore going away from the judge especially. This will keep him straight.

Just ride forward, straight, in a tempo that suits him, and ride the hind legs to the halt.

MissFit
Apr. 8, 2007, 08:56 AM
I think your plans sound great! In fact, your plan for dressage sounds a lot like mine! :) Have a great time--events are fun!

Eventer13
Apr. 8, 2007, 12:08 PM
Just have fun :) You're not going with the intent to win, right? So keep the beast's legs within the arena, get around, and soon enough you'll be able to go XC. Which is, of course, why we all event.

GreystoneKC
Apr. 8, 2007, 07:31 PM
Just have fun :) You're not going with the intent to win, right?

LOL! Honestly, I don't do anything without the intention of trying to win! I'm extremely competetive - hence why I'm asking so many questions and working with my pony so much! I'm always looking to have fun, but everything's more fun when you do well! LOL It may be our first forray into eventer-land, but I wouldn't do it if I thought we would kill ourselves.

CWO
Apr. 8, 2007, 08:30 PM
Like Bornfreenowexpensive, I haven't kept up with this whole thread, but have just returned and ready the OP's last 2 posts. If I remember correctly, you'll be doing beginner novice.

Last fall, Flora Lea's beginner novice x-c course had no water and the bank was only up and it was about 12-18" high. It was just another canter step - no big deal.

Have a blast! I should be there doing BN, also. I can't wait.

GreystoneKC
Apr. 8, 2007, 09:37 PM
Please anybody doing the Flora Lea event please come say HI to me!!! I'll never be able to figure out who's who, but I'll stick out like a sore thumb!!! I'm outgoing and all, I just don't think I'd be able to track people down while trying to make sure I do everything right! LOL So keep an eye out for the really loud chestnut and white pinto pony and the chick with all the bling on her head!!!

Whisper
Apr. 8, 2007, 11:54 PM
I hope you had a fun Easter! Good luck at Flora Lea. :)

ss3777
Apr. 14, 2007, 03:29 PM
Hey Hunter Snob,

Did you kick some serious butt?? I hope so, I am sure you had fun, hard not to at an event :)

CWO
Apr. 14, 2007, 07:01 PM
ss3777, it's not 'til next saturday, 4/21.

ss3777
Apr. 14, 2007, 07:20 PM
Thanks!!

GreystoneKC
Apr. 15, 2007, 11:18 PM
Yeah, less than a week away now!! I'm going out this week and looking for a cheap pair of full seat britches to try to help keep my big-ole-butt down in the saddle! But I'm starting to worry about the footing with all this rain we're getting. My friend told me the stadium is on grass too, which just stinks. Worse yet, I wanted to get one more XC school in this week plus a good 2'9" jump school, but my full course ring at home and my other farm are both on grass! Uhg. I hate nor-easters! But I have been working hard on old-school jump excercises I do with my kids jumping with my arms up!!! LOL It's helping with the ducking. And it's a lot of fun!

asterix
Apr. 16, 2007, 08:44 AM
It's very easy to stress about the weather (I've spent many nights awake, listening to rain, all wound up about the footing the next day), but in practice, you will not have a problem as long as you can slow down when you need to. He can trot all those fences if he has to, and I'm sure he's more surefooted than some of the bigger greenbeans that will be out there. So try not to worry!

About water, yes, they always lose momentum. At the higher levels that becomes part of the "question" but at BN you just need to keep those feet moving. If the water is murky he may well slow way down going in -- my Training horse once walked OVER the first (luckily small) log in to a murky puddle, one leg at a time. The jump judge could be heard laughing in the background, but you know what, that counts, he kept going, and once all his feet were in we were fine. So you may want to just take a little more connection and a little more of a balancing feel as you come down there, if you think he'll back off at the sight of it.That way instead of flying to it and then slamming on the brakes when he sees it's funny looking, he will have some think time and you can keep his feet moving.

Be sure you pay attention to how the water is flagged. You must pass between the flags, but that is IT. Sometimes at BN the flags are on the OUT of the water, for example. While clearly the intent is for you to go through the water, if you have a problem, just keep the feet moving, do NOT cross your path (make a circle of any kind-- squiggles are ok :)), inch your way over and through those flags somehow.

As for down banks, yes, you do need to slip those reins. Don't try and keep a feel -- especially as you are both learning how, it can be a little unpredictable how much he peers down, or leaps versus shuffles, etc. If you catch him in the mouth it will make him more prone to leaping off the next time (ask me how I know), and it will drag you forward!!

Just let them slide, eyes up, hips soft, think tall, feet a bit in front of you. That'll do it for small down banks.

pics you see that look like we are "sitting down" probably show a seat that is very close to the saddle -- so close there may be contact between britches and saddle -- but without weight IN the saddle -- that keeps you following and secure as the horse lands...

horseguy
Apr. 16, 2007, 12:17 PM
Yeah, less than a week away now!! I'm going out this week and looking for a cheap pair of full seat britches ...
What color? :)

bornfreenowexpensive
Apr. 16, 2007, 12:26 PM
Yeah, less than a week away now!! I'm going out this week and looking for a cheap pair of full seat britches to try to help keep my big-ole-butt down in the saddle! But I'm starting to worry about the footing with all this rain we're getting.


The footing at Flora Lea is very sandy....it usually holds up to rain quite well. If it stops raining soon and we have the wind for a day or two...it should be ok. Irideon are nice full seats that are relatively cheap but hold up nicely http://www.doversaddlery.com/irideon-cadencestretch-cord-full-seat-riding-breeches/p/X1-35024/cn/3/


That may not help you much for schooling prior to but BN is meant to be easy and inviting. You will be fine.

GreystoneKC
Apr. 16, 2007, 04:40 PM
I got myself a pair of black Ariat full seats today. Little tight (diet needed), but they'll get the job done and they were really comfy so I'll use them for schooling britches at home afterwards. I'm gonna go ride in them now, and see how they ride.

Glad to hear about the footing. Makes me feel better. I really hope we have banks and water! That's the most fun part about this XC stuff! My pony and I love banks.

Asterix, thanks for all the great info!

mjedge808
Apr. 16, 2007, 04:45 PM
good luck..if they run! heard they might not be able to run this weekend due to major flooding, anyone know solid?

GreystoneKC
Apr. 16, 2007, 09:58 PM
Someone on my other thread posted that they were called and that it is in fact cancelled! I am praying not as I have no idea if I can do it some other weekend due to our H/J shows! I'm so frustrated.

Tory Relic
Apr. 18, 2007, 02:16 PM
Well, because in hunters it's the horse being judged, and often in those photos (especially on covers) you'll see an impressive knees-to-eyeballs, round effort. It's an advocation of the horse, certainly, and those who imitate the rider are misguided.

I generally stay out of such things, but I was very disappointed to see the ad hominem attacks over here. As someone who moves quite a bit, I keep tabs on people I'd like to do business with and people I'd like to avoid through COTH. This thread has added people into each category. I'd like to thank all of the lovely people of the eventing community who have welcomed so many converts such as myself into the fold. I'm glad my entrance to eventing was met with enthusiasm and kindness as opposed to hostility. Who wants to volunteer to jump judge for a bunch of jerks?

To the OP: I hope you have a safe, fun time!

I am the same way. I am over here because I want to learn more about the sport and this looked like a perfect thread to read. I always remember the ones who are gracious and who are not. As you pointed out, volunteering is a good way to learn, but who wants to do it for cranky pants types?

Whisper
Apr. 18, 2007, 07:07 PM
Black breeches aren't allowed for Dressage or SJ, but are ok XC if I recall correctly.

bornfreenowexpensive
Apr. 18, 2007, 07:57 PM
Someone on my other thread posted that they were called and that it is in fact cancelled! I am praying not as I have no idea if I can do it some other weekend due to our H/J shows! I'm so frustrated.

Bummer....perhaps you can make it to another event. There are ones at Bucks Co. Horse Park and New Jersey Horse Park...both nice events and not far from Flora Lea....I'm assuming you are in NJ, and if so, if you come south there are a bunch in MD and PA that are pretty close to you as well. Let us know what dates you have free and I'm sure we can find an event for you and your cute pony....hopefully quickly before he sells!

GreystoneKC
Apr. 20, 2007, 09:14 AM
Bummed that they cancelled for this weekend!
Happy they rescheduled for Sunday the 29th!
Definately only wearing the black breeches for XC! Hey, come on, guys, I've learned SOMETHING here!!!! LOL
Oh, and I have my outfits all planned out. ;-) ;-) Horseguy. LOL
I may or may not do more events. I'm really hoping i can find someone to buy him out of this one because I'm so desperate to sell (house for sale long time), and I would really love to see him event.
We were schooling 3ft singles and 2'3" bounces no handed. I am rocking the no ducking. LOLOL Ha, I'm just as tough on myself as I am on my kids! It's the only way to be!

Whisper
Apr. 20, 2007, 08:12 PM
I'm glad the rescheduled event still works for you - I guess it gives you another week to practice. ;) Just double-checking about the breeches - one of the other posters here was eliminated for wearing black (I think in dressage, might have been SJ). I loff riding and jumping with no reins - haven't been able to jump without them for a bit, might see if I can work on that in a lesson soon. You're sure setting a good example for your students!

GreystoneKC
Apr. 23, 2007, 12:01 AM
So this weekend I continued my eventing education when my friend and I took off to MD to go see Fair Hill. We went Saturday for the XC (see my other thread if you showed and might like to see if I took pics of you) and saw, I think, the Intermediate/CIC**, Prelim/CIC*, and then whatever came after that til the end of the day, and a little of whatever ran before the **.

I was pretty fascinated at how not-so-high I thought the jumps were. I kept looking at them going, um, if they were made out of rails.... However, what I found so intimidating were the combinations! The ditch/bank up to log down bank (and vice versa for Prelim) was impressive, and the Interm coffin was FEARFUL. Those skinnies were SKINNY! Also, trekehners are interesting to say the least! We travelled around the course (it was soooooo strange to be able to walk in the "ring" while people were riding!) and I got to see just about every section of the course except 4-5-6 close up.

I learned quite a bit about "eventing". However, I am shocked at how many people griped about me laying on my pony's neck and ducking, etc. I saw soooooo many people ducking, hitting horses in the mouths, using the almighty crest release (more often than not), and essentially almost dying!!! I have some scary photos! BUT, I was so excited to see Phillip Dutton ride! He is amazing! He is like the eventing world's version of Scott Stewart - so soft and effective, never getting in the horse's way. He had a young chestnut that I want for a jumper! Tons of scope! I didn't get to see anyone "slip the reins" but I did get a bit better feel for the idea of staying tall and back on banks and things of that sort.

I also had a really good ride at home today. Schooled some nice big (H/J) jumps, rode well, Bandit jumped well - but I'm very picky of every rub he has now. I practiced galloping a bit too ater seeing how darn fast some of those horses went. Yeah I know, I don't have to go that fast, my meters/minute are nothing in comparison, but I just wanted to open up a little bit and ride out of that.

OK, I need bed. Night all.

Wellspotted
May. 16, 2007, 09:18 PM
A great thread that just STOPPED!
Greystone, what happened? Did you ever get to event?
I was really enjoying your thread (except for a certain guy and mom:D ) and I hope you'll continue it--I really want to read on and find out what happened. :)

Whisper
May. 16, 2007, 09:31 PM
She posted an update here (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showpost.php?p=2399325&postcount=38) and pictures (http://community.webshots.com/user/reavenlee). :D

GreystoneKC
May. 17, 2007, 09:48 AM
Don't worry guys, I'm still around. I just lurk a lot more now. I didn't want to keep rambling on when no one cared what I was up to anymore! LOL

My eventer friend got a job as a working student at a local eventing barn, which is great for him, really, but the problem is that they work him like crazy... so he basically has no time to breathe, and I don't even get to see him anymore. I was trying to work some stuff out, but well, you get shot down enough times and you just stop trying.

I was planning on entering Bandit in the next unrecognized FH, but I remembered I have a wedding that day that I don't think I can get out of. So now I'm not sure what I'm doing. One of my older students and I are going to school at FH this coming Tuesday for fun and education (she has schooled with me at Saddlebrook before, but never off the farm), and actually another of my students has asked to do an event! Unfortunately, I don't know that she or her parents are going to take it seriously enough for me to allow her to. I tried to explain to her father that these jumps DON'T come down and that *I* prepared for almost 2 months for it and he was just like, "but she jumps at home all the time! Why would we need a protective vest?" Uhg...

So what other events are within 1-2 hours of south jersey that I might want to take the B to? I really just wanted him to get sold, but I figure I'm at least going to keep playing with him until he does!!!

bornfreenowexpensive
May. 17, 2007, 10:10 AM
Don't worry guys, I'm still around. I just lurk a lot more now. I didn't want to keep rambling on when no one cared what I was up to anymore! LOL

My eventer friend got a job as a working student at a local eventing barn, which is great for him, really, but the problem is that they work him like crazy... so he basically has no time to breathe, and I don't even get to see him anymore. I was trying to work some stuff out, but well, you get shot down enough times and you just stop trying.

I was planning on entering Bandit in the next unrecognized FH, but I remembered I have a wedding that day that I don't think I can get out of. So now I'm not sure what I'm doing. One of my older students and I are going to school at FH this coming Tuesday for fun and education (she has schooled with me at Saddlebrook before, but never off the farm), and actually another of my students has asked to do an event! Unfortunately, I don't know that she or her parents are going to take it seriously enough for me to allow her to. I tried to explain to her father that these jumps DON'T come down and that *I* prepared for almost 2 months for it and he was just like, "but she jumps at home all the time! Why would we need a protective vest?" Uhg...

So what other events are within 1-2 hours of south jersey that I might want to take the B to? I really just wanted him to get sold, but I figure I'm at least going to keep playing with him until he does!!!


You may try Plantation....it is in Unionville, PA. They have a rec. event on Sat. June 9 and then an Unrec. event on Sunday June 10.

http://www.fairhill.com/ (I know it says fairhill...but it is a long story).

bip
May. 17, 2007, 10:11 AM
I was planning on entering Bandit in the next unrecognized FH, but I remembered I have a wedding that day that I don't think I can get out of.

Now if you were hardcore, it could be YOUR wedding and you'd still do the event, lol :)

GreystoneKC
May. 17, 2007, 08:16 PM
Hahaha! I've luckily never had to miss anything big even for my h/j shows! I lucked out! I didn't even need to miss my prom for Devon! They were on different weekends, thank goodness! But yeah, my man is in the wedding and he'll kick me to the curb if I don't go with...

Wellspotted
May. 18, 2007, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by bip:
Now if you were hardcore, it could be YOUR wedding and you'd still do the event, lol

Or if your man were hardcore (about dressage or eventing) he wouldn't have time for the wedding either. :D (But it would be a good idea for a pas de deux--if the judge were licensed to perform weddings!)

I wish I could buy that darling pony--he is so cute and such a good size.
(But I do love my retired eventer--he takes good care of me and I try to do the same for him.)

GreystoneKC
May. 18, 2007, 11:17 AM
Does anyone know anything about the events at the Bucks County horse park? Another friend of mine is planning on going to that one and she said it's pretty nice, so I just wanted to check and see what people thought.

LisaB
May. 18, 2007, 11:35 AM
Send a PM to colliemom, she's the instigator of all things Bucks County HP.

GreystoneKC
May. 23, 2007, 10:28 AM
:pouts:
Pony threw a shoe and blacksmith forgot about us so we didn't get to go school at FH yesterday. Sad. Especially because I was bringing one of my students with me for the first time... :-(

GreystoneKC
May. 23, 2007, 10:29 AM
That was supposed to say "pouts" but apparently when you put : and p together, it makes :p. Oops.