Dog attacks horse,how to deal with it??

[fernie fox]

I am an animal lover,but this incident has scared me.

If I could shoot and had a gun on me I would have shot it there and then.

I'm pretty sure that would be illegal.

While riding in a state park last week,A pit bull type rushed us very agressively.I froze,I was petrified.

Two gals with me really yelled at it.

The owner was screaming at it,and it was hardly listening to her,but did eventually back off.

The dog ran into the park to get to us.They had no fence in their yard.

What is the best defense in this situation??
------------------------------------------

To be honest,if I could have killed the dog I would have.

I have had my horse attacked before,my horse reared and the dog[german shepherd]ripped out a piece of skin on his chest.That dog was definately going for the jugular.

This latest incident has me pretty shook up.

[citydog]

There are a number of threads on here about this already that you might find helpful.

[fernie fox]

I just searced back on the trail riding thread through oct.dont see anything.

There is a thread about the poor old TB that was attacked,but I cant find anything on being attacked while out riding on the trail.

[yellow-horse]

i've had dogs on the trail issues occasionally and it really depends on the situation, if it's just a friendly annoying dog i call it over and say good boy now go home, if it's a dog chasing us because it's a dog, then i turn the horse and ride towards it telling it to go home, if the dog appears to be ready to attack i ride as fast as possible away from it, at a full gallop if needed. i once had a woman turn her akita on me, i was not on her property, she deliberately sent the dog after us, my horse bolted and i thought that was a good idea so i kept my head down and let her go as far as she thought safe, luckily i was in woods and not a road or impossible trail situation
my thought is if i ride off my property i cannot control what we will meet, so i will try to keep me and my horse safe by whatever seems the best option at the time

[Dixon]

I haven't read the other threads, but I'd keep a strong water gun within reach. Water is often effective at breaking up dog fights, so I would think a blast in the face would discourage a dog from coming at you and your horse. And water can't really harm the dog, so you're not subjecting yourself to a possible lawsuit the way you might be if you shoot at it with a real gun.

[Outyougo]

most dogs are nice--but dogs do have a border line personality!

Thought 1 get a hunt whip ( or bull whip) take a bit of time to learn to use it and get your horse used to the snap it makes. Then carry it on your rides. Go to the hunting forum

Thought 2 turn the tables and point your horse after the dog. Sounds a bit scary but my horses will go after a chasing dog. Especially if your horse has any "cow" in it the horse will go after the dog. Better the dog learns to fear the horses than the horse learns (from you) to fear dogs. A shod horse can inflict a lot of damage on the dog.

[redponyrider]

in school on dog safety we were told never ever ever run. Pretend to be a tree, stand quietly, do not stare or yell at dog, do not flail hands around-- basically the idea is to not act like a prey animal nor to act threateningly towards the dog (staring).

In the few scary dog encounters I've had on horseback, simply turning the horse and calmly walking towards the dog has been sufficient to send the dog scurrying off in panic.

[Underdog]

I was hand walking my then 2 yo mare on an abandoned farm to get her to see some sights.
A jogger out with his 3 loose dogs decided to go into attack mode and work as a pack and circled my mare.

She dragged me along her side like a ragdoll and trotted with that tail in the air running the same cirlce as they.

Then she went into attack mode.
Fight or flight, right?
She choose to fight, and then reared and smashed her front feet on the ground close to one of them and kept trying to pound them or kick at them if she had the opportunity.

Thats all it took.
I had to scrape my drawers after that....and she could have kicked me in mistake as I was being dragged along her hip...I didn't want to let go of that lead rope. Nope.
She knew where I was at every moment and never tried to hurt me.

We had a real bond after that.

You looking at the 2 basic responses. fight or flight.

[Equibrit]

Load shotgun with rock salt and shoot the bugger; Buy a hound whip and learn to use it,
Or SSS!

[fernie fox]

Actually after years of Whipping and hunting,I am pretty sharp with a hunt whip.

But I am told that would make the dog even more aggressive.

[matryoshka]

A salt gun might work, but I guess you'd have to train the horse to stand for shooting it.

I've had good success by chasing the dogs, but I have no idea if any of the ones I chased were truly viscious. They turned from snarling, brave dogs to potential carpets. Once my mare got the idea, she started to enjoy it. However, if there are more than one, I doubt chasing would be very helpful, especially if the dogs are feral.

I'm interested to see more thoughts on this issue. It could happen to any of us.

[x-rab]

I think it was in another thread along this line that it was suggested getting a super shooter water gun and fill it with Skunk Oil. You blast the dog in the face or as close to it as you can get. Taking care of course not to get any on you. You can buy the skunk oil either on line or at a hunter store.

[citydog]

I just searced back on the trail riding thread through oct.dont see anything.

There is a thread about the poor old TB that was attacked,but I cant find anything on being attacked while out riding on the trail.

I think this was one of the more recent ones: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=73419

Most strategies about dealing with dogs were raised. I think walking the dogs down (on horseback) was the general favorite.

[citydog]

I think it was in another thread along this line that it was suggested getting a super shooter water gun and fill it with Skunk Oil. You blast the dog in the face or as close to it as you can get. Taking care of course not to get any on you. You can buy the skunk oil either on line or at a hunter store.

Plain water works well (and you don't have to worry about "skunking" yourself (seriously, ever known a super soaker not to leak? Try getting *that* out of leather. Ick.)

[horses-n-hounds]

You would have to "practice" with the horse for control and aim, but a great solution would be Bear spray right in the eyes of the dog.
The nice thing about bear spray is that it has a pretty good "firing" range on it.
It doesn't cause any permanent damage either.

[didgery]

Vinegar in a good squirt gun will temporarily hurt the dog's eyes, be more effective than water . . . and probably be less dangerous to handle than skunk oil! Wouldn't hurt you or your horse if you misfired, unless you somehow shot him in the eye (unlikely).

[Mozart]

I too have had success with turning horse toward the dog and trotting at it. Dogs are completely flummoxed that prey has turned predator. After they do it a couple of times the horses actually seem to get kind of a kick out of it too. But for all out vicious dog in full attack mode...not sure if it would work. Fortunately I have only come across the barky territorial type.

[matryoshka]

Caution about hurting the dog: you don't want to make him more aggressive toward horses. Mention of the salt gun made me remember that our Irish Setter was shot with a salt gun by a mail carrier when she was a puppy. After that, she'd try to go after anybody in uniform, including police and crossing guards. This was a normally sweet dog who played with the neiborhood kids and was friendly with adults. She began chewing up the mail as soon as it was shoved through the mail slot. We mounted a mailbox to the side of the house so she wouldn't chew the mail anymore.

When she was an adult, our Setter saw the mailman, jumped onto the screen door, managed to hit the latch, and ran out and bit him on the butt. We had to quarentine her for rabies and were lucky not to get sued.

So, hurting the dog with something like pepper spray or anything that stings could make matters worse for future encounters or other horses. Better stick to intimidating the dog without causing it any pain. Plus, in animal court, it would be your word against the owners' about why you did something that hurt their dog. We are too sue happy in this country.

[Amchara]

Most dogs I have ran into are utterly flabbergasted that such a big creature is coming towards them covering more ground than they could dream of.

They scatter like chickadees on a winter day.

[Sabina]

First off, if the state park has a leash regulation, and the dog was off leash and out of control, go back or call the parks department and report the incident. Don't be worried that you cannot id the dog, maybe this is not the first time it's happened and somebody else saw something.

Second, carry a whip like a longer crop or dressage wand even, put a clip on it and clip it to the saddle if you don't want to carry it. If the dog jumps up, you can nail it. But with pits or pit mixes, stay on the horse but move off out of the area as soon as possible, because their bites are so much more dangerous, they can clamp on.

Pepper spray works very well on dogs, but don't hit the horse or yourself with it. I mean, it REALLY works if your aim is good, the dog should drop and run off.

If it's a little yippy dog I verbally warn the owner the horse is going to kick it, and then watch them scramble to retrieve it. This is not really true, but it does motivate them. If it's a little yippy dog by itself, I will trot at it, and it usually turns tail. I ride with my dogs at home all the time, so the horse is used to dogs running underfoot. If I'm leading the horse along and a dog comes running up, if the dog is being stupid I will threaten to crop whack it. Some dogs are actually friendly, so I just sort of go with what happens.

The important part is to control your physical reaction that your horse is reasured by what you feel like that you and he can get thru this obstacle without panicing. You can control your physical response even if you are are afraid, you can still sit quietly without butt-clutching, remember to breath, and look where you want to go and not directly at the dog.

[Nicker]

Vinegar in a good squirt gun will temporarily hurt the dog's eyes, be more effective than water . . . and probably be less dangerous to handle than skunk oil! Wouldn't hurt you or your horse if you misfired, unless you somehow shot him in the eye (unlikely).

I've had to use vinegar and it does work. ;) Safer then pepper spray, even the slightest breeze and that stuff is coming right back at you. Plus wouldn't hurt your gear if it leaked.

[Coup De Des]

I have no one to ride with anymore.. and have just moved my horse to a new area where we are over the road from the beach. I am TERRIFIED of coming across a vicious dog :(

[Prieta]

Hello all of you! Coup de Des, I understand how you feel about dogs. I ride alone, too and to make it worse, my Arab is neurotic. Last Fall, I started training my Arab to face the dog by walking her and turning towards any dog that comes to us. The last dog that came to us thought that we wanted to play with him and he kept on "playing" until the owner came to retreive him. My Arab was calm throughout the whole ordeal of which I'm grateful. My goal with her is to ignore any barking dogs and listen to me at all times. I alone can only determine if we need to run away - not her. She needs more road walking, though.

If a dog wants to attack us, I'd rather use an arsenal to accurately spray the dog in the face than to allow it to attack us. My only defense right now is to let my mare go and I'm to walk towards the dog like I'm a bear - big shoulder, growl, claws outstretched, etc. But, it won't work for a group of dogs. I'd just run away. It ain't worth it.

[hoopoe]

well

the owner knows the dog is a problem

the owner has no fence

you were on state park property

If you were here I would advise you to report this to the park ranger / authority

The owner and dog behavior, here , would be quite illegal

I think you owe it to the next visitor the dog chooses to go after.

As far as what to do in the situation, I think you responded correctly.

Flight might have provoked the dogs to chase increasing the danger to you and your horse.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Was just thinking about the OP when I read about this happening to a lady in Wales:
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_headline=dog-attack-on-horse--like-lion-bringing-down-a-zebra-%26method=full%26objectid=18683774%26siteid=50082-name_page.html

[siseley]

I too have had dogs be agressive. Soooo... a quick squirt of 1/2 ammonia and 1/2 water in their direction does deter them. Yes, you must get close, but it really will smart.

Just my 2'C's...Steve

[A. P.]

I have found the best approach, if your horse is willing, is to agressively ride TOWRD the dog, saying oudly "GO HOME!!!".

Dogs are much more likely to attack an animal that is running fromt hem. Most will back down if a horse is charging it.

[SandyUHC]

Hadn't thought about making the situation worse for the next rider, but I've always been found of a trail pad pocket with a nice supply of gravel if the "GO HOME" doesn't work.

[joe21]

I haven't read through the other threads on the subject (but plan to). Still wanted to throw in my .02, as this has been a subject that I looked into a while ago.

First, many (if not most or all) states have a leash law. This not only means that an owner is required to keep a dog on a leash, but it required to BE IN CONTROL of their dog at all times. If a dog is loose in an unfenced yard next to a public horse trail, the dog owner is wrong. Rather then waiting for a problem to happen, report this incident to the park police. Since you are dealing with a specific location (private property) it should be very easy for them to find the offender and take necessary action.

I favor the "ride at the dog" approach. This, however, does require an "agressive" rider and horse. There is always the chance that it will not work and make the dog even angrier.

Running away has it's own +/-. It will likely trigger the chase instinct in the dog. If, however, conditions allow and your horse is in good shape, you can outrun the dog.

I have sucessfully used both of the above tactics on local trails where many people take dogs off-leash (in direct contradition to the state's leash laws and the State Park's "no dog allowed" policy).

Regarding guns, I think this is a very bad idea. First, in many places you will be in violation of a gun law. You could be also be breaking additional laws (hunting, guns on state land, etc.) If you actually discharge that firearm, you could be in for a world of trouble. In NY at least, simply pointing a loaded gun at a person is considered aggravated assault.

Not to mention that it is very dangerous firing from horseback. If you hit the dog, you could still be in trouble. If you miss and hit someone else, things get even worse. Not to mention it is always possible to hit yourself or your horse. If the horse is not trained to gunfire, he could spook and you could end up on the ground with the dog attacking you.

Finally, what if the dog owner is also armed and decides to shoot back? Needless to say, you and your horse are a pretty easy target to a shooter on the ground. If you point a gun in his direction (even while trying to aim at the dog) while he is on his own land, he could make a real nice case of self defense. You could easily see how a lawyer could spin this one.

The other "projectile" approches also have their problems. The water guns (especially if they look like water guns) are IMO the only vialble approach. This is because they can't be confused with a real weapon, and they will not harm you or the horse.

Pepper spray, etc. is designed to be used at close range. If an attacking dog is that close, the horse will not likely be standing still waiting for you to spray. You will almost certainly have to be in an unbalanced riding position to hit the dog on the ground, and will probably get some spray on you and/or your horse. Even with a longer range spray, if the horse does a quick spin/crow hop, etc. it could easily spray the horse.

Lawyers rule the day... Running away or scaring off the dog are the best choices, if at all possible. Even if they are wrong, once you hurt "cute, little fluffy who only wanted to play - then that evil person on the big scary horse attacked my little baby" you are in for a "he said/she said" argument.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

I absolutely agree with joe21. You should report this dog to the proper authority so it can be fenced or removed before it causes someone to get hurt. And maybe the irresponsible owner will get fined and learn something.

I started a thread not too long ago about the best way to deal with loose dogs while riding. We had some young riders attacked by a pack of dogs near the boarding stable where I was keeping my horses then. There's no leash law in our county, but there's a law against allowing one's animals to go off one's property and harass others. I bet your area has a similar law.

In our case, one of the young riders dismounted and beat the dogs with her crop after they attacked a stable dog who'd gone with them and was trying to defend them. The pack's owners retaliated by killing the stable dog the next time they found him out alone.:(

But most dogs, I've found, even if they rush up barking and growling, won't actually do much unless you run from them. Ignoring them or walking towards them works best 99% of the time. The rare dog that will actually attack needs to be dealt with by someone who can permanently, and legally, remedy the situation.

[Jaegermonster]

Hi Fernie!
I got your message last night at midnite when I got home from work. Actually my husband told me you called but he accidentally deleted it, and your number didn't come up on the caller id for some reason.
Anyway:
I like to use the squirt gun filled with ammonia. I have had a lot of success with that in the past. It will give you a little time to back away from the dog slowly, and won't scare most horses.
As far as it being in the state park, try to get an address for the pitbull's owner if you can and contact the park ranger or game warden.
They can cite the owner or otherwise try to rectify the situation. Glad you are ok.
THis probably won't make you feel any better, but most dogs are either going to bite or not. Otherwise they just make noise. I love it when people say "that dog was TRYING to attack me" dogs don't try to attack, either they do or they don't period. If he doesn't bite right away he most likely will not as long as you don't run.

[fernie fox]

Hi Jaeger,yes it was about this situation I called you.

The more I think about it ,the more I realize I need to do something..

Novices and kids are on these trails all the time,I am writing a report to give to the park manager and the dog owner as well as Columbia county animal control,which is not very active in helping out on these sort of things apparrently.

I want it "on File" that there is a problem out there.

[JackSprats Mom]

but a great solution would be Bear spray right in the eyes of the dog.

NO!!:eek: And I'll tell you why, firstly any blow back from this will seriously hurt you and your horse and make a bad situation worse. Secondly, if a dog is really intent on attacking Pepper spray will NOT stop it ( I can promise that, seen it).

As I make my living with working with 'dangerous dogs' I can tell you, I have NEVER had a dog that not stop when I have run at it (but trust me, I mean it when I charge back!) I am not advocating that but I am saying 99.9% of charging is a bluff.

Now that said, you add a horse into the mix and you change things a little as the arousement and excitement levels go up. A couple of things that I would do is try and desensitize the horse around dogs to start with (many barns have dogs and so lots of horses are).

Personally if I was charged, depending on the horse that I was on I would either charge back (my current horse will do this as he happily chases dogs) or get off (if your horse is hyped up) stomp the ground and yell at the dog and move towards it! Keep yourself between you the dog and the horse as a highly aggitated horse will just increase the dogs drive.

Like I said though, MOST dogs are bluffing and have a mild prey drive. But if its serious then I have always stood my ground, running will only get you into trouble.

And again, pepper spray/bear spray will not stop a serious charge (for that matter nothing but lethal force will) but these are VERY rare. What stops the dog when using a spray is the noise and shock value...so water, lemon juice, vinegar all work the same and won't hurt you or you horse if there is blow back.

[matryoshka]

Personally if I was charged, depending on the horse that I was on I would either charge back (my current horse will do this as he happily chases dogs) or get off (if your horse is hyped up) stomp the ground and yell at the dog and move towards it! Keep yourself between you the dog and the horse as a highly aggitated horse will just increase the dogs drive.
This does take training. My mare got to love it and would turn to face dogs without my asking once she got the hang of it. I hate dogs that hide behind bushes and come out behind, though. If the horse is already going at a good clip before the dog makes its presence known, the horse tends to bolt. No fun on a paved road, I can tell you.

I guess the best bet is to train the horse for this possibility. I was lucky enough to have annoying dogs nearby that would bark and follow us down the road without trying to attack. The game changed once we started chasing the dogs. Eventually they learned to stay on their side of the road and bark from a distsance. And it is surprising how effective this tactic is on strange dogs. I don't walk toward them, though. I trot toward them, shouting "Git!" or "Leave it!" If the dog is barking at us from a distance and not approaching, I'll call out in a friendly tone, and it is usually just content to bark. My horses have learned to mostly ignore this type of dog, but always keep an ear on it.

Years ago there was a poodle across the road that would hide behind bushes and run out and bark at the horse's heels. My guys all got used to it, but I'd forget about it on a new horse. That's the first time I ever had a horse jump into the air and land facing the opposite direction. Sure wish I could train a horse to do that! :D

We never called animal control on these dogs, because then you are set up for an "eye for an eye" situation, as somebody mentioned above.

[LostFarmer]

Again my answer is to have a mule with you. We have Roany and Dutch the 2 best horse trainers and dog destroyers I know. I have watched them hunt a coyote in the pasture. They will actually move in behind the thing then attack. I have found the remains of the neighbors dog that had been tap danced in the pasture one day. So next trail ride take an assault mule with you and turn him loose. :yes: LF

[Risk-Averse Rider]

Again my answer is to have a mule with you. We have Roany and Dutch the 2 best horse trainers and dog destroyers I know. I have watched them hunt a coyote in the pasture. They will actually move in behind the thing then attack. I have found the remains of the neighbors dog that had been tap danced in the pasture one day. So next trail ride take an assault mule with you and turn him loose. :yes: LFYes, but who's going to administer CPR to my horse when he realizes he's on a trail ride with... GASP!... a mule!!!!????

[Prieta]

I see the answers here on how to take care of a lone dog; however, I do not see how we can take care of a pack of dogs on the loose. What do we do?

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

I see the answers here on how to take care of a lone dog; however, I do not see how we can take care of a pack of dogs on the loose. What do we do?

I think it depends on the horses and dogs involved. When you say "a pack" do you mean a group of dogs who will rush up and bark, or an organized bunch of them, some of whom will circle behind you? If the former, I just ignore them. If the latter, I ride purposefully towards the leader. The rest of the pack will cue off what s/he does, so if you can put him/her to flight, you've got it made. And most times, you can.

Only once have I had the leader stand his ground and leap up at my horse. Lucky for me, my horse completely ignored the dog and just kept going. I don't know what would've happened had he spooked.

[matryoshka]

Again my answer is to have a mule with you... I mentioned this post to somebody, and they said their mule saved their TB from a pit bull who got into the pasture. Is this a mule thing? I had a warmblood who used to chase dogs out of the pasture. Too bad that he also chased about everything else, too, including foxes, rabbits, cats, and people (other than family).

[Prieta]

Hope that this charging up to the leader of an "organized" pack will help to break up the group before they do any damages.

One of my horses - I think it is my Arab mare killed a racoon in my pasture just when the racoon tried to climb over the fence during most recent snow storm. It is now frozen solid to the ground - just have to wait until the weather warms up a bit more before I can dig it out. :( :/

[wolfy22]

I agree with those who say turn your horse on the dog - I have not met a dog yet that will continue to advance on a horse if you are riding toward the dog and shouting something loud and gruff at them - now you have to have a brave horse to do this. I also recommend carrying a hunting whip - if the dog gets too close, let them have it! A couple of years ago I was out riding with friends and my horse (he was 6 at the time) and I were bringing up the rear. We passed a small farm that was home to a pit bull and a german shepard, who often barked but never chased. As we passed the farm I heard the dogs barking but then it stopped and I thought nothing of it and continued on behind my friends into a field. All of the sudden my horse went from 0 to 60 and bolted with me across the field, leaving my friends way behind us. When I finally pulled him up, about 200 yards away, my riding partners told me the pit bull and the german shepard had chased us half way across the field and then they gave up! What happened was they stalked us silently - I should have turned around to look for them when the barking stopped, but stupidly I rode on! Now I always check my back when passing dogs, especially when they stop barking. The reason for this long story is to tell you that you would think an incident like that would ruin a young horse for trail riding and hunting after that, but the next day we went out and faced those dogs and chased them! He's a quarter horse and has a bit of cow in him and he fox hunts some, so he's a brave horse - he has no problem with meeting up with strange aggresive and loud dogs. Recently we were chased by a goat! And we have had our share of encounters with cows! No problem. I would say always turn on the dogs and go after them, its the safest way.

[matryoshka]

Good post. I wouldn't have thought to check behind us in that situation either.

[threesacharm]

There is a product called DirectStop - you can get it in catalogs. It comes in a small spray can with a belt clip. It's citronella based, shoots pretty far in a narrow stream, doesn't hurt the dog or whatever animal (rabid skunk, snake), but boy, does it get their mind off of what they're doing! It would give you a chance to turn around and get out of the vicinity so you can report the dog to the police or ranger!

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

What happened was they stalked us silently - I should have turned around to look for them when the barking stopped, but stupidly I rode on! Now I always check my back when passing dogs, especially when they stop barking.

Oh, good point.:yes: Despite having trained dogs since I was ten years old, I've only been bitten twice in my entire life - and one of those times was when a dog slipped up behind me as I walked past his house and bit me on the back of the calf (luckily it was only a tiny terrier-ist:winkgrin: ).

Turns out I was fortunate. Years later, one of my neighbors turned his pack of dobermans out on me as I walked past his house (yes, he is a crazy old b@$t#^d). By charging at the leaders I sent most of them scurrying, but the only reason the last little bitch didn't get me was because I knew to listen for the tap-tap-tap of toenails on the pavement behind me.:D

[sharps_74]

I've had problems like this at times and come very close to shooting a dog. There's one place that I ride to get to friends and the store that I have no choice but to go past a house where the people have let their dog out when I was riding by. I was on the far side of the road and they were watching as their dog ran out of their yard at us. I stopped my horse and yelled at them to call off their dog. It was only after I placed my revolver and informed them that under Arkansas law I can shoot their dog if we are threatened. My guess is that they called the police and found out that I would be in the right. I don't like the ideal of shooting somebody's pooch. I care less for the ideal that my horse or myself may get hurt instead. On a side note, If you are not in the know about firearms and choose to carry one while riding you might first contact your local law enforcement to cover the legal end then get in touch with your local NRA rep. about training (go to the NRA's website). Hope this is helpful.:)