Lava Man retired, yet again, Jan 2010

[Cammie]

Mast Track won. Followed by High Court Drama, Neko Bay, Tres Borrachos and Square Eddie.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/54406/clear-sailing-for-mast-track-in-native-diver

[Cammie]

So much for the grand comeback. Finished dead last out of seven after leading at the start.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/54562/gabriel-repeat-for-proudinsky-lava-man-last


Connections are trying to figure out what the next step is now-
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/54564/oneill-wood-mull-future-for-lava-man

[EightBelles134]

does anyone think the gash he got leaving the gate on his right hind tibia could've had anything to do with his performance?or is he just trying to say that he's had enough?

[DickHertz]

does anyone think the gash he got leaving the gate on his right hind tibia could've had anything to do with his performance?or is he just trying to say that he's had enough?

It's pretty common for a horse to come back with some nicks or even gashes. It typically does not cause them to run bad because the adrenaline rush is so big that it takes away alot of the minor pain they may feel from a cut. I had one that had a gash about 3 inches long along the coronet band and she went on to win even though it was painful in the days ahead.

Now, admittedly, I completely forgot about his return race. And typically I hate playing Monday morning QB with racing because you have to follow your gut as a trainer. BUT you also have to know what is realistic. A legendary horse could have pulled off that feat yesterday, but let's be honest folks, Lava Man was a good handicap / Grade III type horse for most of his career other than a few exceptional performances. He was not a great horse and he's 8 years old. 8 year olds win all the time, but often in the claiming ranks with the exception of some rare exceptions (that grey Black Tie Affair horse who raced mostly in New York is eluding me at this point). This was a Grade II with many horses in peak form. I've always thought O'Neil is kind of on the overrated side and picking this spot verifies my assumption (in addition to having mostly 3/5 horses now running east and many not getting the job done). There would be no shame in putting the horse in some sort of time restricted money allowance. Hell, the racing secretary would have written a a time restricted a other than if O'Neil had aked for it. Bad management of a horse that I still think can be an overnight stake horse if guided correctly.

Green trainers know that the biggest pitfall a trainer can fall into is how well an older horse trains in the morning. Many are morning glories because they know they can run at almost racehorse time without hurting themselves and do it willingly. Maybe someone should explain this to Doug-O. Blinkers On, I nominate you.

[Rubyfree]

The owners have been very vocal about their high expectations; I wonder how much sway they had over the selected spot.

I also felt it was a little ridiculous to drop him back into a graded stakes with horses who have been in continuous training and competitive at that level. Back when all of this blew open, I seem to recall O'Neil stating repeatedly that they were going to 'take it one race at a time', that he didn't expect much from the first race, etc etc. I got the impression that he was sort of reluctant about the whole ordeal.

I'm glad the horse came home safe. I do hope he is now offered the retirement he has earned several times over.

[Frog]

Horse looked ok to me, got tired is all. You want him to retire? I was thinking, "He'll be fit as a fiddle next time out!"

[Las Olas]

8 year olds win all the time, but often in the claiming ranks with the exception of some rare exceptions (that grey Black Tie Affair horse who raced mostly in New York is eluding me at this point).

Evening Attire?

[DickHertz]

Evening Attire?

yeah

[blue&blond]

Horse looked ok to me, got tired is all. You want him to retire? I was thinking, "He'll be fit as a fiddle next time out!"

It was a disappointing race for sure but I agree with you, Frog. He just looked like he got tired. Nothing more.

[DickHertz]

Horse looked ok to me, got tired is all. You want him to retire? I was thinking, "He'll be fit as a fiddle next time out!"

Don't really think that's my sentiment. Mine was why not put him a shorter race - wasn't he always better at a flat mile anyway - preferably not against grade II horses and let the horse pick his head up a little bit. The last thing he remembers in a race is how bad he got beat and the pain he felt. Horses aren't as dumb as many would imply.

[Frog]

Eh, well, you never know until you try. Have to figure out where he is, especially since it's been so long. And horses are pretty dumb. I mean not really dumb, but dumb. Like my dog is smart- for a dog. But she's still just a dog.

[farmgirl88]

Eh, well, you never know until you try. Have to figure out where he is, especially since it's been so long. And horses are pretty dumb. I mean not really dumb, but dumb. Like my dog is smart- for a dog. But she's still just a dog.

...and what people tend to forget is you are also...just a human. Sure we, and our close relatives, make the top of the list for the most smartest animal in the animal kingdom, but you are also....just a human...in the animal kingdom, no less than your dog, or a cow, or a horse, or a crow.

it tends to send me over the deep end when people fail to remember that they are also an animal in this world and they really are no better and no different than any other creature living on earth, we have just built up these crazy schemes to control everything we want because we have every available resource we could ever want.

it also furiates me when people say...well its just a dog, she's smart-for a dog, but she's still just a dog, or its "just a dirty disgusting pig"....well saying something like that just makes people sound uneducated because in fact pigs are extremely cleanly and are the 4th smartest animal in the world.

it makes me even more upset when people claim that people can't put human emotion to animals, especially in rescue and slaughter, etc situations. i hate to break it to people but just because humans are human and we have emotions, etc...how does that make it OK to say other animals do not have emotions, etc? I'm sorry but saying animals dont have emotions, fears, etc like humans do is just plain ludacris also

horses are far, far from stupid or dumb or whatever you'd like to call it. just because they don't speak a human language to tell people whats wrong and what they want to do or feel like, does not make them dumb. christ, you might as well say humans are stupid for not figuring out their ways of communication yet. after all, we are that superior aren't we???

[Rubyfree]

.... what on earth?

Let's please not derail this thread.

[Glimmerglass]

Thankfully they've called it quits, but it seems to be only a minor chance that he will enjoy a meadow at Old Friends. Rather instead the asshats of STD have suggested an option is that they could make him into a hunter jumper.

DRF Jan 5, 2010 "Lava Man retired after comeback" (http://www.drf.com/news/article/109915.html)

Kenly, who owns Lava Man with his father and sister, Dave and Tracy, and Jason Wood, made the decision earlier this week after consulting with trainer Doug O'Neill and veterinarian Doug Herthel.

Kenly said plans for Lava Man are uncertain. Some of the options being considered are keeping him at the racetrack as a pony, or training him to be a hunter-jumper. Kenly emphasized that Lava Man's stem-cell procedure will make the gelding more comfortable.

"He's clinically sound, and so much sounder than he was when he started this process," Kenly said. "It's a win-win deal. The only downswing was he didn't perform better than expected. We don't regret what we've done.

"His second career, whatever it will be and we haven't decided, is unlimited. He could be a hunter-jumper, a pony, or retired in a field, and he'll get along better in those scenarios. He'll be a much sounder horse than two years ago. The chronic arthritis would have gotten worse and worse."

[cloudyandcallie]

God forbid the owners should lose the chance to get more money out of him! Retire him to a pasture, or let him have a life like Kelso.

[DickHertz]

O'Neill is an idiot for spotting the horse where he did for his return race. Poor horsemanship at it's very worst.

[lily04]

God forbid the owners should lose the chance to get more money out of him! Retire him to a pasture, or let him have a life like Kelso.
Kelso went on to become a nice hunter.

[Dahoss]

We were talking about Lava Man a couple days before the race, and I commented that the connections should have found a softer spot due to how long he was off and his age. I didnt think he'd finish as bad as he did, but now I know why I would prefer an easier tightener before banging heads with the big dogs.

This reminds me of former world champion boxers that come out of retirement for one more big payday. They try to take on the current world champion after being off for two/three years without a tuneup fight. Many will show some brilliance early on, but then begin to fade about midway through and get KO'd.
Had they taken an easier tuneup fight before meeting the champion, they probably coast to a convincing win or get a knock out in the middle rounds, which would help better prepare themselves both mentally and physically for the big fight.

Back when I use to bet, I normally put a line right through the name of most horses in similiar situations as was Lava Man, especially if they were going a route of ground or if it appeared that they would be a part of a speed duel. If I did use them, it would be on the bottom of the ticket. But most times it was a toss for me.

[Dahoss]

...and what people tend to forget is you are also...just a human. Sure we, and our close relatives, make the top of the list for the most smartest animal in the animal kingdom, but you are also....just a human...in the animal kingdom, no less than your dog, or a cow, or a horse, or a crow.

it tends to send me over the deep end when people fail to remember that they are also an animal in this world and they really are no better and no different than any other creature living on earth, we have just built up these crazy schemes to control everything we want because we have every available resource we could ever want.

it also furiates me when people say...well its just a dog, she's smart-for a dog, but she's still just a dog, or its "just a dirty disgusting pig"....well saying something like that just makes people sound uneducated because in fact pigs are extremely cleanly and are the 4th smartest animal in the world.

it makes me even more upset when people claim that people can't put human emotion to animals, especially in rescue and slaughter, etc situations. i hate to break it to people but just because humans are human and we have emotions, etc...how does that make it OK to say other animals do not have emotions, etc? I'm sorry but saying animals dont have emotions, fears, etc like humans do is just plain ludacris also

horses are far, far from stupid or dumb or whatever you'd like to call it. just because they don't speak a human language to tell people whats wrong and what they want to do or feel like, does not make them dumb. christ, you might as well say humans are stupid for not figuring out their ways of communication yet. after all, we are that superior aren't we???

And horses probably think some of us humans are dumb because we don't truly understand their simple language. :lol:

One of the big major differences between some horses being far more intelligent compared to some other horses are the human companions who spend good quality time teaching and communicating with them, compared to the human handlers who doesnt.

A happy, trusting individual will be much more willing to listen, learn and participate, which leads to greater intelligence.

[DLee]

I think it would be pretty cool if he went on to be a hunter or jumper. What a great ambassador for OTTB's.

[Rubyfree]

There are plenty of lovely ambassadors for OTTB's. If any horse has earned a nice leisurely retirement, he has. They spent 50k to bring him home; he's bankrolled over five million. What more does he need to do for them?

Dick, I sort of wonder if O'Neill didn't do it on purpose. I said earlier that I read a decent chunk of reluctance into his quotes and interviews on the subject of bringing the horse back.

Whatever. I like seeing the big horses ridden after they retire from the track, ala Three Chimneys etc. I don't really know why I'm taking this case so personally. Does this ownership crew make this much effort to continue the careers or find new jobs for all of their horses?

[KentuckyTBs]

Who is to say that this horse would ENJOY being tossed into a field? Many horses LIKE to have a job to do. So IMHO, whether he be a pony horse or go on to be a H/J.... he very well might thrive BETTER doing SOMETHING verses standing out in a field. I'd do whatever makes the horse happier IMO.

[Barnfairy]

Who is to say that this horse would ENJOY being tossed into a field? Many horses LIKE to have a job to do. So IMHO, whether he be a pony horse or go on to be a H/J.... he very well might thrive BETTER doing SOMETHING verses standing out in a field. I'd do whatever makes the horse happier IMO.Count me in that camp. I'm not so sure his legs need to be carrying people over jumps at this point, and lord knows he doesn't owe anyone a thing. That said though, providing Lava Man is sound, if he's the sort who's happier with a job, give him a job.

[MintHillFarm]

Just glad to hear they do not plan to race him again...

[summerhorse]

Who is to say that this horse would ENJOY being tossed into a field? Many horses LIKE to have a job to do. So IMHO, whether he be a pony horse or go on to be a H/J.... he very well might thrive BETTER doing SOMETHING verses standing out in a field. I'd do whatever makes the horse happier IMO.

Exactly. This is still a young horse. Many racehorses don't want to be turned out to pasture. They are used to being around people and doing a job and are bored in retirement. They should do whatever makes the horse happy.

[ASB Stars]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57253/lava-man-settles-into-role-as-stable-pony

A great story for any of our warriors on Memorial Day!

[Blinkers On]

Thanks for posting the link. I was about to do the same.
He isn't kicked out in a pasture, he has a job. He is happy.