Hypothetically, If A Person...

[Frank B]

...who had spent the past 15 years doing hunting, jumping, and dressage was to find themself suddenly interested in trail riding, where might said person find vendors of tack and associated equipment? All the catalogs piled throughout said person's house (thank heavens for said person having a supportive, understanding spouse) are hunter/jumper/dressage. Also, what magazines are available?

Because of aging joints, the aformentioned disciplines are not as friendly to da ol' bod as they once were, and several friends who know friends who trail ride suggested that it might be a way to continue my love affair with horses from the back of a horse. I've looked at driving, but (call me a pervert if you wish) I really like the feel of a horse between my legs rather than a bouncing seat. If that was what turned me on, I'd get a Harley-Davidson. But then I'd have to clean oil off the driveway. Besides, if things do go drastically wrong it's a lot easier to bail off a horse's back than out of a cart! I've done both, but that's another story.

Competition at this point is not being considered (but at the same time, not being ruled out -- you know how these things go). I wish for casual rides, away from the familiar confines of jump ring and dressage arena. A Western saddle makes sense (I once had QHs and rode stock seat), but the few trail saddles I've seen look very comfortable, more practical for my purposes, and a heckuva lot lighter (the ol' bod, you know).

My first criteria for selecting a new horse will be (naturally) that I can get on without using a mounting block. What type of 'drop' stirrups are available so I don't have to ride a 13-hand pony?

I'm going to be lurking around the E/TR forum gleaning pertinent information as it comes available, but getting catalogs into the mail will greatly speed the process.

FWIW I've ridden in a Wintec Pro Dressage for eight years, and love it. How are their trail/endurance saddles?

Thanking you in advance for your help.

[sigried]

Hi Frank,
I retired my TB a couple of years ago and wandered into trail riding. I wanted to enjoy the company of a horse and venture out of the arena. I wanted out of competition. This does not mean that trail riding is not exciting. There are so many beautiful trails to ride. First off, you do not need to spend a lot of money for tack and horse unless you . A good trail horse is worth his/her weight in gold. If you are not interested in training a greenie, look for a sturdy healthy horse, smart, calm temperment (still should have some get up and go) that is good outside of the arena. As far as tack, a lot of people love dressage saddles. I use both. I used a western saddle at first, I loved having the horn to hang onto when I first ventured out of the ring, but missed the feel of the horse that you have with an english so I use my wintec pro dressage to trail ride in. The important thing is to find a horse that you can establish a trusting relationship with. You might want to look for a gaited horse. My Flower is a saddlebred/paint/draft/etc cross that is gaited. She is very comfortable to ride (as I have past the 50 year old mark and my body doesn't sit trot or bounce as well as I used to). The competetors on this board (Competetive and Endurance) can give you more info on catalogues, vendors, etc. Also, there is a portable mounting block that you can get to help you mount. I just ordered it (I believe it was recommended on this board) cause one of my knees don't bend very well and I cannot mount from the ground.

I just wanted to encourage your interest.
Keep in touch

[prudence]

HI

Ditto the above.

For catalogs go to www.endurance.net and use the vendor links to order catalogs. One of them has those drop stirrups. I got one but it seemed more trouble than finding a high spot/log/rock to use for mounting.

Magazines? The one I get is Ride, the publication of AERC (www.aerc.org). Trailblazer I have gotten but at the time not too reliable in terms of delivery so I did not renew it. There are articles in lots of magazines of course.

I am about to get a Wintec Pro dressage saddle for endurance - currently use a Passier Baum dressage one. I like the weight of the Wintec and how easy cleaning it appears to be.

Have fun reading but most of all riding! If you have a nice enough horse and place to ride him or her, you will be out there as much as possible. Trail riding is good for the joints but incredible for the mind.

[Frank B]

First of all, thanks y'all for your kind help!

I didn't mean to disparage driving. Heck, I only got on Social Security and Medicare last year, and I'm saving driving for when I get old.

Right now I'm looking for a very comfortable saddle that has lots of 'sticky' (think Velcro-butt here) and is easy to hoist onto the back of whatever horse I chose. I'm firmly convinced of the advantages of the synthetics.

I'm planning on taking my time choosing a horse (although a cute little 14.2 QH mare walked up and kissed me on the cheek yesterday). But not too much time -- when one begins to approach old age, ond tends to realize that they're tearing off the pages of the last few months of life's calendar. Maybe Aunt Esther can help me here!

I think a good, calm horse and comfortable tack will allow me to enjoy the great outdoors. Heck, I may even try Cowboy Shooting! They have monthly meets around here, and I have an old Ruger Blackhawk...

[War Admiral]

Another place that has interesting trail/endurance stuff is National Bridle (http://www.nationalbridle.com). Mostly geared toward TWH. You can also find your "field trials" equipment there if you're serious about breaking out that Luger. ;)

I find myself rather intrigued by this saddle (http://www.nationalbridle.com/ProdDetail.asp?Catalog_ID=5213) - nearly bought it to get myself back riding after breaking 2 vertebrae, but lost my nerve b/c I thought at that price it couldn't be very good or comfy. Found out later that in fact it's made by Lovatt & Ricketts from the UK so it may not be that bad!

[patti]

All I can say is that if you still have my email address, please drop me a line as you begin this adventure.

Heck, we've got a gang planning a girls' weekend in your neck of the woods for spring, and with all those women -- all with opinions, all confirmed distance/trail riders -- we will probably not only have a half dozen different saddles for you to try, but can probably haul along a spare horse so you can join us for a ride.

While I've been a confirmed dressage saddle rider over the years, I must confess a deep affinity for my Bob Marshall Sports Saddle, which is not only most like a couch of any saddle I've ridden in, but also extremely light, and very secure when Ned (you remember Ned, right?) pulls some of his antics.

Take care and look forward to catching up.

--Patti from the USDF Days

[katarine]

I predict a TWH and a Tucker in your future. My SO's Tucker River Plantation saddle is the most comfy thing I've ever sat my tush in. Fabu. Loverly. Grand. 4 stars.

Trail Rider magazine is good, you may enjoy it, and it has tons of advertisers that carry trail riding sorts of Shtuff.

[citydog]

Trail riding is the best.

I have a 13.3 Icelandic (I'm 5'9") who is the barn's Secret Weapon for dressage (bwahaha) but has that extra gear of gaitedness (tölt) for when I don't want to deal with his big-moving trot. He's as sure-footed as they come, brave, sensible, and can go through, over (has the neatest jump), or under ;) anything we've ever encounteredon the trail. Could *not* ask for a better trail horse. He's also foxhunted and done hunter paces.

Maybe look into some of the gaited breeds. Gait naturally. Enjoy!

As for tack, I ride in a Stübben Scout (http://www.vtosaddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?store_code=VTO&screen=PROD&product_code=SS), which is a VSD (more dressage-y but with a more forward flap) with extra rings for gear. Super comfy, yet still presentable for non-trail activities. I also have a German-made Goertz saddle that has just the right size blocks and a padded, quilted seat, and is amazingly comfy. If I'm riding out for a long ride and need to use my old Siegfried, I'll use a sheepskin seat cover. I'll usually add a breastplate so I can keep the girth (string with elastic at both ends--fabulous!) a little looser. And Saddle Bums endurance racing tights (http://www.saddlebums.com/ractigmen.html) make every long ride more comfy (padded, saddle-friendly crotch).

I use a biothane halter bridle (http://www.horsesdacor.com/HorsesDacor/photos/headstalls/09-116trail.jpg) from Horses Dacor (http://www.horsesdacor.com) for most everything now (save good leather one for "dress-up occasions). It's swell because it's really easy to pop the bit out and let him graze on the trail during breaks (and the whole thing just gets dunked in a bucket or run through the dishwasher to be cleaned). I use leather reins, though, because I want them to break if anything happens.

[citydog]

Oh! And the endurance stirrups (http://www.equineperformanceproducts.com/stirrups.htm) or the hinged Herm Sprenger or MDC Ultimates(!) are a joy and a totally essential piece of kit in my book.

You might need different footwear than you're used to--I want somehting that I can walk a long distance or climb in if I have to (haven't had to yet, but be prepared), and I need something with a stiffer sole and/or with a Dr. Scholl's gel insole than I need for ringwork.

Trail Rider magazine was ok (I didn't care for all the space devoted to the travel destinations stuff, but liked the practical stuff). I think there is another (Trail Blazer?) that seemed similar.

[Frank B]

...and more thanks for even more support & info, everyone! I'm madly taking notes.

Patti, I have a new e-mail address, and believe it or not haven't gotten the first piece of spam yet! Please go to www.qrz.com and in the upper left is a rectangle called "callsign lookup". Enter W4HAY, and when my page opens, click on "show e-mail address". It will appear in raster form that spam-bots can't read. Please use it to drop me a line so we can start communicating again. I'm also trying to get hold of Boogerchic, since she's ridden Normie.

An old friend has contacted me and offered to teach me about trail riding on her retired trail horse. That's a honor that brings tears to one's eyes! She also says she's going to try to brainwash me about Haflingers!

The Icelandics sound interesting, also.

About stirrups: I've seen a stirrup that extends down several inches, and then can be retracted by lifting it with the foot. Who makes these, and are they any good?

What about rubber-covered XC reins? I think I have a pair hanging around here somewhere.

Footwear: Shortly before I lost Normie, I ordered Ariat Cobalt Performers on advice of both BOs. They use them daily, say they are very comfortable, and last about a year under very hard use. They said 3-4 years ago Ariat had quality problems, but apparently got them ironed out. What are your opinions and recommendations in case my future horse throws a shoe? The ones I ordered haven't arrived yet and I could claim they "don't fit" :lol: I have a 5-yr-old pair of their old "pro" series that have always been comfortable, although I certainly would not want to walk several miles in them.

I didn't realize how different trail riding is from the 'ring' disciplines. Y'all are certainly being helpful!

[citydog]

When I was riding the Percherons (who were not the best critters to be maneuvering over to stumps and such because they couldn't necessarily fit *under* whatever else was nearby) on the trail, I would just super-lengthen my mounting-side leather, and then put it back on the hole it belonged when I was back in the saddle. :yes:

[citydog]

Personally, I love Blundstones with a gel insert. They really work for me and last years and years and years).

Some folks really like the Ariat Terrains, and I do have a pair of the Ariat Dumas for ungodly hot weather, but they don't work (the women's 10 is a little small, the 11 gigantic, and they don't make a 10.5).

If you get the endurance stirrups with the cage front, you don't need to worry about having a proper heel, so could get any stiff (if you like), supportive non-equine-specific hiking boot/shoe.

[Huntertwo]

As everyone knows, I love the Bob Marshall Treeless saddles.. I've never rode in anything so comfortable and my pony loves it too.

I know there are several Endurance/Trail Magazines you could subscribe to also. And there are lots of websites for trail riding equipment.

Finally moved to a new barn with miles of trails and honestly I trail ride 5 days a week...:) I can't get enough of it...

Good luck on your new adventure!

[horselips]

Hi Frank! Good to see you over here (I'm NB from BB).

I'm another who does only trail riding these days. And some dressage touch-up training for fun in the open fields. My back, knees, and hips can manage trails pretty well.

I find it fun and a challenge to train my horses to go in different areas, and meet different obstacles. Anything I can think of. Crossing roads, RR tracks, any water. Or facing dogs, trucks 4-wheelers & llamas. A carrot is a great reward for bravery.
I teach my guys to mount from any side and any thing, and to "step closer", if needed. I often use the trunk of my old car as a mounting block. In a pinch, I can stand a horse in an empty ditch or downhill to mount. This works well with the 15hh horse, but not the 16.2+hh one.

We can open and close gates, retrieve things from low tree branches, mailboxes. Pony other horses, walk dogs and once, herd some geese. :uhoh:

I alternate ridng in an ancient Parcival dressage and a synthetic western (Abetta for one, Fabtron for the other). I love the treeless Bob Marshall Sport Saddles are, BUT If you have a very wide horse, it might be hard on your hips if you get one with stirrups rigged to hang back in the endurance position.

Only thing I've yet to do with my guys is swim one across water. Maybe next summer :lol:

You will have a blast!

[patti]

... I am vertically challenged. Yes, tragic but true. :-P

In any case, rather than finding a contraption to help you mount (Ned is 16+ hands), find a horse who can (or teach your new horse to) stand next to stumps, rocks, in ditchs, alongside guardrails, etc., so you can use them as a mounting block.

I've become adept at holding my bladder until I find the perfect remounting place on trail, and unless you're somewhere without rocks and trees and ditches, you'll always be able to get back on.

It took me several lessons and lots of peppermints but Ned will stand pretty much anywhere to be mounted.

Regarding a lost shoe, when you find your horse and saddle, you'll probably also want to look into a pommel or cantle pack from Sportack. They have attachable, non-flopping bags that will accommodate an easy boot, or they even have separate little fleece-backed drawstring bags that can go front or aft on a d-ring to stuff a boot or two into.

Keep us posted as you progress.

Drop me a line at allegany suar at earthlink dot net and we'll catch up.

--Patti

[Maude]

Hi Frank, I have been a DQ for many years. Last year at the age of 49 I went through my "Midlife crisis" and purchased a western saddle. I now ride my FEI dutch warmblood in western tack and trail ride her. I'm having the time of my life just enjoying the company of my wonderful horse and a few good friends. We even camped at Gettysburg and rode the battlefield last year. I found that my dressage background and my horse's dressage training made it an easy transition. I now subscribe to Dressage Today AND Western Horseman and but Trail Rider magazine in the stores. I look at the ads in them and send for catalogs, explore websites etc. for equiptment etc. I now am the proud owner of buckskin chinks, several cowboy hats, etc.

I'm having a ball. My horse had a suspensory injury several years ago and circles and lateral work seem to tweak it. I had to find another way to enjoy my horse as I love her and won't give her up. When one door closes, another one opens...My mare is currently in foal to a top dressage stallion, so dressage will reappear in my future. For now, I'm enjoying trail riding my wonderful mare. After she foals, I will have my future dressage prospect, but will continue to trail ride. At this point I'm not ready to give up my Grand Prix dream, but I am looking forward to trail riding for many, many years in the future! Good Luck and Happy Trails! Maude

[King's Ransom]

Maude --
I am also thinking of making the switch to trail riding with my 16.3 WB, former dressage horse -- who had a suspensory tear. I am so encourged to read that you have already done this, and that you found the transition "easy." My boy is a real dreamboat to ride, but I have wondered about his size (seems really tall from the ground) and whether he would settle down enough for trails. He is done with dressage, so I am also looking for something that we can do together.

[horselips]

All these other "dressage-horse-turned-trail-companion".

A dressage-trained horse makes the very best trail horse. Whenever I go out with others, I find my horse is the one who:

Stands still for mounting.
Halts AND stands still when asked.
Will collect or lengthen when asked.
Will half-pass to one side of trail as needed.
Is willing to be lead, middle or tail horse ~ where ever I want to place him.
Will rein-back OUT of the trappy mud I just inadvertantly walked him into.
Will bend around that fallen tree in a tight spot on the trail.

AND does all this with a normal head set - No worries that he'll step on his chin :D Not to mention that his gaits don't resemble my grandmother using her walker.

Hey, dressage is FOR making the pefect trail horse, IMHO. ;)

[King's Ransom]

VERY encouraging! Thanks! Eli is getting quite an education out here on the farm and is becoming a bit unflappable (well, not unflappable, but in comparison to his former self -- not very flappable!).

And, his trot is the smoothest thing I have ever ridden. So I think we should have some fun together on the trails!

[sunridge1]

Frank,
I had my ASB in training for show for over 7 months. Many people told me that the transition would be nearly impossible. Because I didn't want to take the chance on ruining any possibility of him making a decent trail horse (he is my baby), I took him to a trainer that specializes in trail riding (and reining). I told her to bushwack him in everything thru everything etc. He is by far the best trail horse I've ever had. He'll do anything I ask and is afraid of nothing. The $500 I spent for that training was worth more than the thousands I spent for the show ring.
Mary

[Simrat]

Grr.. I had a reply all typed out and don't know what happened...

Meant to say. .. . ;)

I ride in a FreeForm saddle. It is classified as treeless, but I would consider it to have a flexible tree as it has a lot of support and structure from the injection molded foam. It is comfy for me and every horse I've put it on. It is really lightweight too. I added EZ ride stirrups and they add a lot to the comfort for my feet and knees. When I swap out to regular stirrups sometimes, I feel it within 20 minutes.

If you are looking for a horse as well, I suggest looking into a Spanish Mustang/Colonial Spanish horse. My 14 hand, stout mare carries my 5'9" self handily through and over anything I ask. She is happy to head out alone to explore new places and loves to see what is around the next corner or over the next hill. Her w-t-c are very smooth and she has an amble gait too. :D

I don't know of any breeders in TN, but Virginia has a few. Check out http://www.rbefarm.com/Rainbows_End_Farm/Home.html Daydream Believer's site. She posts here and also does dressage with her stallion. She has some nice young stock right now.

Another person to see about trail SMs in your area is http://www.msindianhorses.com/

And I also second, third, whatever it is by now... a visit to http://www.endurance.net/ for links to lots of vendors of trail friendly gear.

I have the horse and the gear, now I just need the trailer. Or for my new BO to negotiate trail access with the neighbors. ;) I am sure that you will enjoy being out on the trail on horseback.

[DairyQueen2049]

...who had spent the past 15 years doing hunting, jumping, and dressage was to find themself suddenly interested in trail riding, where might said person find vendors of tack and associated equipment? All the catalogs piled throughout said person's house (thank heavens for said person having a supportive, understanding spouse) are hunter/jumper/dressage. Also, what magazines are available?

Because of aging joints, the aformentioned disciplines are not as friendly to da ol' bod as they once were, and several friends who know friends who trail ride suggested that it might be a way to continue my love affair with horses from the back of a horse. I've looked at driving, but (call me a pervert if you wish) I really like the feel of a horse between my legs rather than a bouncing seat. If that was what turned me on, I'd get a Harley-Davidson. But then I'd have to clean oil off the driveway. Besides, if things do go drastically wrong it's a lot easier to bail off a horse's back than out of a cart! I've done both, but that's another story.

Competition at this point is not being considered (but at the same time, not being ruled out -- you know how these things go). I wish for casual rides, away from the familiar confines of jump ring and dressage arena. A Western saddle makes sense (I once had QHs and rode stock seat), but the few trail saddles I've seen look very comfortable, more practical for my purposes, and a heckuva lot lighter (the ol' bod, you know).

My first criteria for selecting a new horse will be (naturally) that I can get on without using a mounting block. What type of 'drop' stirrups are available so I don't have to ride a 13-hand pony?

I'm going to be lurking around the E/TR forum gleaning pertinent information as it comes available, but getting catalogs into the mail will greatly speed the process.

FWIW I've ridden in a Wintec Pro Dressage for eight years, and love it. How are their trail/endurance saddles?

Thanking you in advance for your help.

Frank -

Welcome to Trail Riders Annon. My addiction involves needing to ride a minimum of a 10 mile loop to be content. I am happiest exploring new trails and making new riding friends. :winkgrin: Welcome Welcome!

I agree that as we age we must care for our bodies and joints. I used to cruise around on a 15 hand QH mare with a walk that would knock your socks off. Oh yes, you WANT that loooong swoopy ground covering dressage walk that moves your fanny in the saddle. The bigger longer the walk the better.

Back to height - my new-to-me horse is a 15.1 hand TWH mare - I still use whatever I can find to assist in mounting - not only to save the torque on the horses back, but for my comfort too. You can find a perfect for you height horse in any breed. Just take time looking - this is a lot like finding the right spouse. A good decision will bring you years of safe fun joyous miles. A bad decision... If you are thinking comfort look into those gaited breeds - I can tell you that the comfort is well worth it! AND the gaited breeds seem so very willing and cheerful too.

That siad, try as many breeds as you can get your butt in the saddle of too. QH, Paso, TWH, MFT, Halfies - each one will help you decide what you may be looking for. AND each will have a different saddle for you to try out too! A bonus!!

And you want a 'buckle horse' - one you can give the reins to and s/he just hits cruise control and goes.
:yes:

It took my TWH a little while to learn that trick, but she now loves to be a buckle horse.

Oh and try those stirrups that are very wide for you foot comfort when you begin to go on 5 hour rides. :yes:

If you are already comfy in your Wintec that CAN head right out on the trail with you - as long as it fits your next horse! :cool:
If you wind up with a gaited horse saddle fit for the horse will be an adventure!

Take up those ladies offers of showing you the ropes on the trails - you will have such fun! Trail is all about "All for one and one for all" attitudes. I think you'll find it a pleasant adventure.

Do these ladies camp? THAT is great fun for you and the trail horse - and involves exploring new trails.

Magazines - hmm. Well, I have picked up Trail Blazer on occasion: http://www.horsetrails.com/
and enjoyed it. I'm still getting PH, H&R and Equus - old habits die hard - and really ought to add a trail one.

I scope out the local MI mountain biker sites for potential new trails to check out.

I'm a member of the MI Trail Riders too - we do an 'across the state of MI ride that it is a hoot if you are interested. See here: http://www.mtra.org/
Just igonore a lot of the comments on the BB page - some of the members there don't know how to play nice and get along with everyone, I'm sorry to say. The rides are very friendly - anyone can post and I think some of the snarkier ones aren't members.

Where are you located? Near MI? I'm very exicted to hear your adventures and about the learning you do on your way to the trails. :yes:

[Mtn trails]

Welcome to another trail convert! I used to compete when I lived on the east coast and now do mostly trails. I am starting to get a little back in to doing some arena work but my heart is in the mountains. My husband is around your age Frank and is looking to go gaited as well. The horse he's interested in is a Rocky Mtn or Mountain Pleasure Horse. They are easy going, people friendly horses who will go at a flat walk or you can dial in a faster gait and off they go. Right now, we have quarter horses and appaloosas with one mustang thrown in there. She's just 3 (going on 4) but I've taken her on some pretty tough trails and she's passed with flying colors.

I had a Tucker saddle and although it was very comfortable it didn't fit any of my horses. This is a common design flaw with Tucker and the way they build their tree but the quality is excellent and you'll have no trouble reselling it if that's the way you want to go. For what it's worth, use a saddle that is comfortable for you and your horse. I like using a western because you have plenty of strings to tie on gear and I just feel more secure when I need to lean forward when going up hills or when my horse spooks.

Carry an easy boot or Old Mac for when your horse throws a shoe. No fun to be out 10 miles and have to walk back. Also, put your bridle on over the halter and keep the lead rope attached. You can do a military style wrap around his neck with the excess if you don't have a saddle horn.

Enjoy. Lots of people gave you excellent advice and contacts. Definitely look into BCHA - there might be a state organization in TN. Be safe and have a good time.

[DairyQueen2049]

I had a Tucker saddle and although it was very comfortable it didn't fit any of my horses. This is a common design flaw with Tucker and the way they build their tree but the quality is excellent and you'll have no trouble reselling it if that's the way you want to go. .


You know, hubby and I borrowed a Tucker to try for his bumm and it fit my TWH mare TERRIBLY. Pinched her shoulders! I wondered if it was that particular saddle or a design flaw. Nice to know!
Thanks for the tip, Mtn trails!

[sunridge1]

I use a Tucker on my ASB's. Mine is a medium tree and it fits both horses perfectly even though they have completely different builds. My sister and her husband use them on their TWH's and Mules without any trouble. Could it be tree size, they come in S-M-L?
Mary

[matryoshka]

Hey Frank, welcome to the trail riding section!

I ride my OTTB in an Abetta endurance saddle. It looks like a western saddle without the horn. It is good for me because my pelvis goes in and out of alignment, causing my right leg to go numb. I find this saddle, with western fenders, supports my leg so that 1. it doesn't go numb and 2. if it does go numb, I can stay in the saddle. I highly recommend either buying or making stirrup turners if you go with a western-style endurance saddle. It is cloth and very sticky. I don't even need chaps. It is also light weight. I need to use a back-lift pad for it to clear Butch's whithers, but he has never been back sore with it, even after hours of riding. I bought it at a PetSmart that also sells StateLine tack.

Don't overlook Morgans or Morgan crosses when you are shopping for a trail horse. I trim several, and they all have awesome feet. One competes in hunter/jumper classes and does competetive trail barefoot. He cruises over rocks like they aren't even there. Even the Arab breeder who owns the barn where he is boarded is jealous of his feet. He's quite peppy, though, and will overwork himself if his rider isn't careful.

I suggest you try some trail riding on other people's horses at first (unless you can take your own) and figure out how you like to do trail. Do you like to mosey, or do you find covering ground most statisfies your riding drive? How do you feel about trail obstacles, etc. Trail riding can be as challenging as you want it to be. However, your choice of horse will affect how the trail goes. I've got a friend who rides a horse who mosies along, and it is quite frustrating for her. She wants to cover ground! Another friend has a horse who is peppy, and she feels a bit over horsed and gets scared on the trail. Another friend has a horse who goes the right speed, but she balks at every obstacle--also annoying. My guy is perfect for me, and I don't mind dismounting occasionally to lead him across an unfamiliar bridge. He'd probably drive other people crazy, though.

I know you are not likely to be intimidated by anything on the trail, but I think it would help to familiarize yourself with what you like before you make a purchase. My horses all like to GO, but they are airheads. This doesn't bother me (used to hate it), but I have to build up to difficult trails with them. I can't stand to ride a sluggish horse--I want one who is as eager to see over the next hill as I am. And they have to have a certain amount of bravery/self confidence if you are going to do the trails alone. Not every horse does well by itself.

My $0.02 :). Let us know how things go!

p.s. I've also seen some awesome Arab/Appy crosses. Talk about drive and staying power (and often a sense of humor). Again, excellent feet seem to be par for this cross.

[cuatx55]

Hi Frank-

I ride (halfway serious) dressage and trail on the same horse (a 14 yr old arabian mare). As in 3-4x schooling sessions per week dressage and 1x-2x trail rides a week trail in summer. Lessons, hopefully showing next year. So I can't answer more detailed questions, but let me tell you trails are so much fun! Very very good change of pace!!! People seem so much different then in the dressage world. It's nice.

I have the Wintec Pro (NOT CAIR PANNELS!!!) and Wintec Western saddle (oldie but goodie). They are both great saddles! I've ridden many trails in the Pro and found it very comfortable. Persoanlly I do NOT like the new cair system. I like my wool flocking and it doesn't create bounce. When the trails are a bit more dicey I like to use the western, plus its a nice change of pace from english.

The wintec western doesn't ride like any other western saddle I have been in. It doesn't create a "slide" feeling-I sit in one spot. I really like the Stubbens for dressage, but I wouldn't personally take it on the trail if I had other options. I know others do, but it costs too much and I do worry about things like rain and tree branches. I added a Cashel cusion to the western and it really is nice on long trails. If you get a wider horse, the wintecs are now available in a wide version in which they have a pink, lt pink and purple gullet system. I think they are by special order via a tack shop but they do not cost more. And I would work with a good saddle fitter and have the new horse checked for teeth, chiro and massage (this is my dressage background talking!!!) The dressage makes my trail horse better, and the trails make my dressage horse better! No reason you can't do both, but most dressage riders are very fearful of riding out. Hope you have fun, and there is nothing like enjoying a summer ride on your favorite horse!

[Austin Rider]

I see all kinds of saddles on the trail...just use what you're most comfortable with. I trailride in my Wintec Pro synthetic dressage saddle and it's great. That sueded-type material they use is plenty grippy. Add a bucking strap in case you need it and you're ready to go!

If you're set, though, on getting a western-style saddle for trailriding, look at used western saddle places and see what you like and what fits you and whatever horse you end up using. A lot of western saddles have stirrups that are set forward and tend to put the rider in a chair seat. Many people like this, but if you're one who doesn't, look at reining saddles which are designed for a more classical equitation seat. Many endurance saddles also place the stirrups further back so that you're not in a chair seat.

[Maude]

Frank, I ride a Reinsman All Around. I like it because it has a flat plate rigging that pulls the saddles down and around the horse more evenly, flares at the fron to allow more movement in the shoulder and sits me over my leg rather than behind it. One drawback-it is heavy. I still think that it is best for my horse heavy or not because it fits and allows her to move. It's a trade off...western saddle s spread the weight over a greater bearing surface but are heavier. English saddles are lighter, but the weight is concentrated over a smaller area. If you weigh for example 200 lbs, that's what your horse has to carry, but how you sit on the horse (and how the saddle sits you) can make a difference in how easy it is for him to carry you. Good for you to follow your heart on how to have fun with your horse!

[matryoshka]

This has turned into a pretty good tack discussion.

Some things I've seen used by serious trail riders are a breast plate and crupper. I use a breastplate on my high-withered OTTB, but I haven't had the guts to try the crupper yet--takes some training and getting used to. I'm not yet doing serious hills where the saddle would tip forward.

Hopefully the serious trail riders will chime in here, but I believe the crupper/breast plate combination helps keep the saddle from rubbing. I dont worry about the saddle sliding forward, which is why I thought one would use a crupper. However, it also helps keep the saddle from tipping forward and rubbing. That is important for the horse's comfort when doing long rides and serious hills.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about why a crupper is a good idea for a trail horse!

[Mtn trails]

I don't know about it keeping the saddle from rubbing, but I use a crupper to keep the saddle from sliding forward going down hills. It does take a little getting used to for the horse but most adjust just fine. What I do is start while I'm grooming and put my hand or arm under the tail head and encourage them to relax instead of clamping down. Once they're used to that and don't react when you handle their tail, take him out to your arena or round pen and put a round stick under their tail and let them go. Either they will clamp down and buck or they'll just relax and the stick will fall out. When they're used to that, then you're ready to try the crupper. The crupper should not be adjusted so tight that it's pulling on the tail but should have some room under the strap that runs from saddle to tail. The tail section should be snug but not tight. From the ground, pull on the crupper and see if you get a reaction, by this time if you follow the above steps, most horses are used to the feeling and don't mind. I ride all my horses in cruppers from the 3 year old mustang to the 20 year old quarter horse and never had an explosion. All in all, the steps above take about a week.

[matryoshka]

Thanks for the advice. :) I have a pony that I drive, and she still hates having the crupper put on, no matter how careful or matter-of-fact I am about it. I'm not particularly anxious to train my 16hh OTTB to accept it, but I'll try what you've suggested.

He's got shark withers, so I'm not at all worried about having the saddle slip forward. The gullet would need to be about 6 inches higher :D . However, I don't want it tipping forward if that will make him uncomfortable. He doesn't like hills much and has the urge to buck on steep hills. I can feel his desire to buck, but so far he has resisted it. It partly makes me want to laugh, and partly scares me (I have no desire to roll down a hill either with or without my horse). I'm hoping he's smart enough not to choose a hill to do his acrobatics, but he's a bit of an air head. He's cute and fun enough to make up for an occasional lack of good sense. :winkgrin: Besides, I often lack good sense, too.

[Horsecrazy27]

Welcome to my "club"!!! LOL That is where I have been for the last few years. I now like to just site and ride slow and admire the scenery. I find it sooooooooooo relaxing!!! Maybe in my stressful life now a days---it is what I need.

I find trail stuff just through local stores/magazines and such.

:)

[prudence]

I've never heard of using a crupper to keep a saddle from lifting up in the back. Some people use a back cinch (the real name is escaping me) if they ride western; I personally use a big butt to keep the cantle down. I know cruppers are common though to keep the saddle from slipping forward and they seem to be pretty standard equipment for mules. Getting off and walking down hills keeps the saddle pretty much in position too.

I don't use a crupper or a breastplate as we have shark withers and a roach back. Our saddle stays perfectly in place, even on our steep climbs here in the west!

[Mtn trails]

Back cinch, flank cinch, they're called both. I've seen the cantle tip forward over the horses neck with men riding twice so weight doesn't have anything to do with it. It was with the same horse too who tends to travel with his head a little lower than his wither going downhill and over it went.

[prudence]

Wow that's an awful story about the horse who carries his head low. I hate going over their heads - way too much to get tangled in (especially since I use double reins!)

[Mtn trails]

The horse was fine he didn't tip over, just the saddle did and dumped two different guys off. They were fine too, one was my DH and the other was a friend. DH has since taken to riding with a cinch that attaches at the front billet and the back. It's kind of different looking - shaped like a big "X" but it keeps his saddle in place.

[Renae]

I use a Tucker on my ASB's. Mine is a medium tree and it fits both horses perfectly even though they have completely different builds. My sister and her husband use them on their TWH's and Mules without any trouble. Could it be tree size, they come in S-M-L?
Mary

I'm a Tucker lover as well and if you do a wither tracing and send it to the company and get the tree size they recomend I have never had a problem with them not fitting. http://www.tuckersaddles.com/measuring.shtml I currently have the Endurance model, I also have ridden in the Equitation (if you are used to riding english you may really like this one) ad High Plains models. My Tucker Endurance saddle has Enduro Balance rigging so I don't have to use a back cinch.

One customer I had who I recomended a Tucker to who also had a Harley sat in it and said "It feels just like my Harley!"

Valley Vet Supply is a good place to by Tuckers from (they have a lot of other trail suitable tac for decent prices as well). They have free shipping and sometmes have special deals where you get a free headstall as well.

[sunridge1]

Renae,
Mine is an Endurance/Trail. Acts like both English and Western with the rear rigging. I just love it. It was real hard for me to make the complete turn over to Western so now I have the best of both.
Mary
/

[Austin Rider]

Finding a good-fitting saddle for a very high-withered horse can be tough, but keep at it. If he's thinking about bucking while going down steep hills, it could be that your current saddle digs into his withers. This assumes, of course, that he doesn't normally buck. What's his breed and conformation? With this information, you can probably get suggestions from folks on this forum on saddles that might tend to fit him.

[matryoshka]

Butch likes to sniff the trail as we go. He'd probably be great at search and rescue if I could teach him to follow a specific scent. :D This means he often puts his head down going down hills, too. I need extra long reins so I don't have to lean forward. I don't feel comfortable pulling his head up for down-hills, because I want him to be able to use it for balance as he sees fit. Besides, if I kept his head up, I'd miss all the strange looks from passersby, and I might feel invisible! :lol:

I don't think the saddle would ride up over his shark withers, but it does sound like a crupper would help keep the saddle in place for very steep hills, especially with Butch's tendency to keep his nose to the trail. I don't like to keep his girt real tight, since he tends to be a bit ribby and has no fat pads along his girth. I've gotten off twice with the girth hanging, and the saddle never slipped (oh, the troubles I've had with western cinches!). Either I'm exceptionally well balanced, or his withers are pretty good at keeping the saddle in place. The second time it happened, I have no idea how long the girth was that loose. :eek:

The Abetta I use does not have enough clearance for his withers, but it fit thes rest of his back just fine. I bought a back-lift pad made for an English saddle and put it between the saddle pad and the Abetta. It has pads that go down either side of the gullet and lifts the saddle evenly along its length. At first I was worried that it would cause soreness, since it doesn't follow the exact contours of the saddle. I've ridden in it for hours at a time and then checked his back for soreness that day and the day after--no problems at all. I sure wish they'd make a similar back lift pad for a barrel-racing shaped saddle. I guess they don't expect to have as many shark-withered (i.e. TB) horses riding in western-style saddles as in English saddles. The only English saddle that clears Butch's withers is a cut-back dressage saddle. All others require the back-lift pad.

[TripleRipple]

I am still reading through the thread. However, just wanted to say while I haven't yet totally worked out what discipline I will end up in, I am also decreasing my emphasis in my current discipline, and seeking to learn others. To that end, I started trail riding, then uber trail riding to the point where I can call it endurance (miles/miles/miles, snowy river, bad terrain, fun). Right now with my dh, but would like to have others involved, so likely actual endurance events or whatever this competitive trail riding is - I like spending time with others at horse events, so miss that aspect doing it all on my own.

Took a spin at driving, and don't like being on the wrong end of a horse:) Looks like loads of fun, but I don't have either the feel for it or the nerve. I learned that I too like the horse between my legs.

I hear you about western saddles, I tried them, but I can't lift the buggers that high without shoulder discomfort. I would like to try a synthetic wyntec. For now, I currently just cheated and tricked out my flat cutback saddles with grommets to hold bags, fleeced seatbelt covers to soften my stirrup leathers, and off I go. There is not a hill I can't climb, and my legs are happier being in swinging leathers than western fenders (have bad joints, bad knees). I have one english paragon saddle with leg rolls - it is merely okay, not a favorite.

And yes, shorter horses rock. As do steady but very forward going ones. I have such horses - and also the pocket-rocket, taller, hot ones, which do not always inspire my confidence. I enjoy the former (will ride all day long with a horse like that and go back for more the next day). I do sometimes lack confidence in hairy situations with the latter (leading me to spend time pondering it on the lack of nerve threads). Something to think about if you haven't already picked a mount for this kind of work.

[Renae]

matryoshka, they do make reverse wedge or built up wither pads for western saddles and high withered horses in a variety of styles:
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?PGGUID=2e87bf59-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?PGGUID=c71c8c96-7b0d-4a99-8650-eaa594386eeb
http://www.nationalbridle.com/ProdDetail.asp?Catalog_ID=2502

TripleRipple I have done lots of trail riding in flat cutback saddles as well. Kind of nice as you can change the stirrup length and sit in them a few different ways with their big flat seats. And I can 2-point and jump little things in a cutback saddle perfectly fine :lol:

[matryoshka]

Thanks Renae,

Unfortunately, Butch needs the entire saddle lifted, not just the withers. It sits level on his back unloaded, but when I sit on it, his withers hit the pomel. He needs both front and back lifted for the saddle to be balanced. The pad we have works, but its shape causes me a little concern.

I certainly appreciate the info!!

[Renae]

Gotcha, but...

IMO- if the entire saddle needs to be lifted (there is not enough spine clearance the entire length of he saddle) the tree is too wide.

All saddles, even western/endurance saddles with western type trees, need to fit without any pads, save a wedge, reverse wedge, or low back pad to make up for extreme conformational oddities in the horse. But something like spine clearance the whole length of the saddle can not be fixed with a pad, just as a too narrow tree pinching can not be fixed by a pad.

[TripleRipple]

TripleRipple I have done lots of trail riding in flat cutback saddles as well. Kind of nice as you can change the stirrup length and sit in them a few different ways with their big flat seats. And I can 2-point and jump little things in a cutback saddle perfectly fine :lol:

Wow, you are the first person I've met that has used cutbacks on a trail too! Yep, I 2 point, jump dinky stuff that gets in the way, and switchback up steep & rocky hills in those things.

I like how I feel very close to the horse when I use them; my more padded up english or western saddles make me feel a bit too removed. Feels sort of like the bareback riding I did as a kid, but I call it old person "assisted" bareback riding:)

.

[matryoshka]

Renae, you are probably right. Even so, Butch's withers are very high. The rest of the gullet clears his spine with no problem, but the saddle will not be level if I only pad his withers. I don't have any narrow saddles, and my close-contact saddle has a similar problem in that it seems to fit his back (i.e. sits level with wither clearance, no gaps under the saddle, no apparent pressure points) until I am mounted. Then the pommel hits his withers. Only the cut-back dressage clears his withers, but that saddle is agonizing for my hip. Alas, my dressage days are long gone.

Someday I want to get a treeless saddle. Some of these don't look like they have enough wither clearance for Butch, either. I should just do lots of work making him go round, and perhaps he'll build more back muscles.