now that he isn't usable, they want to give him back

[2ndyrgal]

I donated a horse several years ago to an intercollegiate program. Since he is at least 20, last summer I approached them about buying him back so he could be retired. They were convinced he had several good years left, so they declined. I made them promise to contact me when he was ready to retire. So today they email me and call me, tell me he has a career ending injury, with a poor prognosis that will certainly prevent him from competing even at a low level, and probably prohibit even light riding. He may not even be "pasture sound". So the email says, since they can't use him, I can come and get him TODAY. I don't have the time to properly rehab him or the facility to contain him during rehab time. So if I say no, does that make me the bad mom??

[cookie-monster]

Well i don't know that you're the bad mom. But you did make them promise to contact you when he needed to retire. And approached them last summer about buying him back. I know you weren't expecting the call you got today. Just do what you think is best. Maybe you could find a new mom who could take care of him.

Best wishes for him.

[Simkie]

I very well may get flamed for this, but...

Can you pick him up and have him put down? A 20 + year old horse that needs a long rehab and may not ever be pasture sound is facing a very bleak future.

[Coup De Des]

Yeah I agree.

Have the old man put to rest.

[FlashGordon]

Yup, I'm gonna go with the previous two posters. Put him down, so at least he can have a dignified end and not wind up somewher bad.

Good luck, this is a tough situation for you I am sure.

[Chevalnoir]

Well, you asked them to contact you, and they have, which is nice - at least you can make a choice!

I don't think whatever decision you make is about being a "bad mom" - it's a matter of what you can live with. I know I personally couldn't live with the possibility of one of my horses being shipped for meat if I could have prevented it. I know other people who can't live with the thought of actually ending a horse's life - they prefer having them go off into the unknown because then they can at least pretend that there was a happy ending. To me, their animals pay an awfully heavy price for their owner's decision to go through life with rose colored glasses, but whatever.

I suppose the best thing to do would be to contact the college and ask them what their plans are for this horse if you don't take him - if they will humanely euthanize him, I'd probably let them do it and pick up the tab for it - partly because they may as well pay for it, having had his use for some years, but mostly because I can't see the point of trailering an old and possibly hurting (you don't say what type of injury) horse, just to put him down at your own place.

However - this may not be an option they have. Their policy may be to sell surplus horses at auction. In that case, I would most definitely pick him up, and if you can't rehab him, or think it's not worth trying because of the poor prognosis, have him put down. Nothing wrong with a clean death after a well lived life.

[cookie-monster]

Great advice, Cheval!

[EqTrainer]

Perhaps you should take him and have him euthanized.

[Angela Freda]

Iif they will humanely euthanize him, I'd probably let them do it and pick up the tab for it - partly because they may as well pay for it, having had his use for some years, but mostly because I can't see the point of trailering an old and possibly hurting (you don't say what type of injury) horse, just to put him down at your own place.

In this scenerio I would have to be there to witness it. Champion Lodge comes to mind... a horse everyone thought had a happy ending.

[LessonLearned]

Horses do so much for us -- they trust us and allow us to use and sometimes abuse their wonderful talents and good nature. They take us places we want to go and when they break or can no longer take us farther we dump them with someone we convince ourselves will care for them better than we can and they will be "better off." Perhaps they will be. But what happens when they are "done" and their caretakers don't have the bond and fondness that you have for your animals?

I would not be comfortable saying to the college -- "Do what you want with him." Many colleges will send horses for inhumane experiments (one person I know got information about donating horses to a large university -- the agreement stipulated that the horse may be used for experiments involving traumatic brain injury or broken bones :no: ) -- and I can guarantee the researchers will not feel any responsibility to your friend.

The other options available may, of course, be auctions and slaughter houses, but a good home is unlikely.

If you are comfortable with that then by all means call them and say, "Do what you want." You can tuck yourself in and say that "it was all for the best."

If you can't, go get him and at the very least give him a dignified end.

[philosoraptor]

This is the danger of donating a horse to a program (unless it's specifically a shelter/charity/retirement home). One day many years from now that horse will go unsound or get too sick for them to deal with. Some places will take the time to find good homes. Some will turn the horse over to a rescue. And some don't think twice about just discarding the horse to the killbuyers or wherever. Judging by how inconsiderate they've been to you, my guess is they will opt for the latter.

It's really a shame this one didn't give you more notice, but I guess we should be thankful they called you before they dumped him. If you can't rehab him, can you get him put to sleep or (depending on what this injury is) turn him over to a rescue?

Food for thought on your ethical dilemma:
Let's say they sold him back to you a few months ago. Somehow he still got this major injury this week. If he was already in your barn, would you rehab him? put him down? or ???

[Appassionato]

Can they keep their pants on, let you owe them for a few days of food for him, and let you get him maybe this weekend? Sheesh, TODAY? Well let's just get hyper and freak totally the Hell out that their formerly useful horse is now hurt. It's a living animal for heaven's sake. WTH gets into people? Calm the heck down. I'm not directing this at the OP, but the school. And no one give me any of that budget cut crap either for it will be a very futile argument with me. I have eyes, and I see where money gets spent.

I agree with others. One, speak to their vet (get the school release the info first), get a real handle on what has happened, then decide what's going to be permanent. You did ask for them to call, and they did.

[EqTrainer]

I think it would be helpful for people making future donation decisions, to know what college this is.

[jetsmom]

If you have him put down, send your own vet to do it, or go physically make sure they do it. I'd be afraid they'd say "yeah, we'll take care of it", and send him to slaughter to make a few bucks.

If you can find out what kind of injury, maybe if he just needs pasture rest, you could find cheap pasture board somewhere nearby. Otherwise, humane euth. is not a bad idea.

[millwrightmomma]

I'm with Chevalnoir in this one, but go and witness the deed, you will at least be able to give him an apple and a carrot and a few kind words.
Sometimes the best choices are the hardest.

[Appassionato]

I think it would be helpful for people making future donation decisions, to know what college this is.

I agree! I also hope I have their attitude all wrong.

[murphyluv]

Cheval, great advice.
It is definitely something to think about whenever donating a horse, what they do with it when it is no longer usable.
Definitely get the vet, see what exactly the injury is, and then ask what they do with him if you don't take him.
And sheesh, today? exactly, see if they can sit on their hands for a minute and wait until this weekend.
And I think that was rather unprofessional that they didn't give you the option of buying him back when you asked last year...

[Rocky]

I'd also like to know what program this is.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=2ndyrgal;2042466]I donated a horse several years ago to an intercollegiate program. QUOTE]

about 13 years ago I was running a 25 student lesson program on a farm I created for the owners...we went from bare land to a remarkable place in about 18 mos....I miss it every day ....the riding program was Pony Club based but spread over all riding styles as pony club is so "english" :) and exclusive it needed tweaking...

anyway we were looking for lesson horses and a lady called and told us about a big ole gelding she had....he was 17.1 TB dark bay and had a freeze brand of the state of TX on his shoulder...he was cheap cheap cheap even back then and we bought him...this was the story she told us....take as fact or grain of salt but I repest is as she told it to us...:)

she had been a student at Virgina Intermont,this horse was a lesson horse there and held their "high jump record" of four of five feet or some such...and he began to lose his brilliance they gave him/or she bought him? when she graduated/left....

anyway,we loved him but suitable for light riding W/T was about all.....but to see these tiny 7 and 8 yos on this giant kind gelding and under his feet and clambered all over thim like a old workhorse and sitting five deep to have pics taken was heart warming...he was worth every single bit of food we put in him..:winkgrin: ...his "problem" was a nasty case of ringbone and complicated by his old age, we one day buried him there on that farm

I had tried to call back to VI but they said there had been a shift of barn management and while they "remembered" him they knew nothing about him....(or something :( )

anyway...my thought was they should have had a greater obligation to the animal that they got got for free most likely,used to make tuition on and they dumped him...and maybe the line I was fed about him was crap ??? feel free to correct my thinking on any of that...but it turned me off to the whole school donation thing :(

Tamara in TN

[goeslikestink]

well in my opnion the horse has eanrt them money by lessons i presume you asked when they was going to retire him/her and it has an inkury s gotta be re hab to me the school is repsonsible they used him so they re- hab him but morelikely sounds like an injury thats a permenant issue so cant use him no more

what you have to ask yourself quality of life--
can you afford to re-hab which you said you cant

so there is only one option left
hes been a great horse and a great freind to you the least you can do for him is spend the dday with him and pts -- then you will know exactly where he is
and he has the dignity of being a horse

so not to go to kill pens - and or dunno where he will end up becuase the not knowing of any animal is harder than knowing-- quilt creeps in -- and chews you up with what --- ifs---

[BeastieSlave]

I'm sure it's frustrating to be contacted like that at such a time, but this just makes me think about all the people who have posted about schools that have not contacted them. I think many of those people would have jumped at the chance to, if not rehome and rehab, at least be there at the end for their old friend.

Perhaps the e-mail that said you can go get him today means that he'll be available for you immediately (since you have asked for him before and been put off) - not that something dire will happen if you don't get him today?

[3fatponies]

I think you need to find out what will happen if you don't take him. Once you know that, I think you will need to really think about what you can live with and make your decision accordingly. Good luck! :sadsmile:

[Cherry]

My feeling is, "at least they called you"! In this day and age I think that's the best you can expect--sad, but true.... People just don't seem to care much about anyone or anything anymore.

I'd see if they can give you a couple days to figure out what to do and do it. You've gotten some good advice here. Take your vet (or another vet) over to the school and get a second opinion on the injury. If it looks too bad then put him down on the spot. That way you won't have to wonder about where he is.... :uhoh: I wouldn't trust them to put the horse down....

I was going to say bring him home and euthanize him but the injury could be too bad to move the old guy....

Sorry you have to go through this.....

[LivviesMom]

Some great advice here..
MayS has a good point..what if you had retired him and he had injured himself..could you have rdone rehab then?
I guess the thing I dont understand is if you wanted to have him back to retire him, why would you not be able to rehab him at all?? I guess it depends on the injury you're dealing with which has not been mentioned. But if he won't be pasture sound at all...then I agree it would be kinder to give him a nice, peaceful, and dignified end.
My advice would be go up and talk to the vet, maybe get your own vets opinion and go from there.

[nightsong]

I think you need to find out what will happen if you don't take him.


Yup. Can't make much of a decisin without enough information.

[Schoolmarm]

The fact that he's not show-worthy anymore doesn't mean he's done for. I've recently become involved with a local college equestrian program, and I understand their need to get rid of horses they can't use, but they're all about showing. Maybe your guy could go to a handicapped riding program or elsewhere as a school horse or companion. Approach the program's head about paying for him to stay on site until you can find him a new home. I'd be surprised if they turned you down unless they simply don't have room.

I agree with Cherry that your vet should have input here, and if the horse really is seriously injured, opt for immediate euthanasia on the schools property. But if he's still serviceably sound, then he has career options other than showing. But you should have a plan in mind before you go to the school to check on him. Since you did ask them to contact you when he retired, you must have had some thought about what you would do with him when that time came. Now's the time.

Sadly, I think many people donate horses with the same stipulation, envisioning their equine returning to them sound and beautiful, just a tad older than when he left. But centers like the colleges or even the handicapped riding programs operate on grants and donations for everything, and they use the horses until they are completely unusable--broken down, lame, sick. They have to to make ends meet. I wouldn't hold it against them, but I do think everyone needs to think through their donation plans.

[cosmos mom]

The TODAY part is the killer here. Call them and tell them you need time(a few days, a week or so) to make a decision. If the injury hadn't been career ending, they would lay him up to eventually put him back to work, so I think they at least owe him a stall and some care for a few days. I am with everyone else that thinks it's wrong for them to give you such short notice. It seems rather heartless.

[hopashore1]

I would definitely see what would happen if you did not choose to take him back. The fact is, you asked them to call you and they did. That does NOT mean that they don't have some sort of retirement facility for their old horses--it just means that you asked them to call you.

Also, they said you COULD pick him up today. Not HAD TO, or if you didn't they'd send him to an auction. They probably thought that since you had seemed so interested in him not too long ago, that you would WANT to take him back as soon as possible. I wouldn't be so hard on them. Many places don't call at all.

Additionally, some horses come to the college with little or no information about their history. So sometimes stuff gets lost--once horses are sold or given out of the lesson program there, their information is removed from files. It doesn't mean the place does not care about their horses.

[Pandarus33]

I'd take exception to the "today" part myself. Few people have the luxury of endless amounts of free time to merrily jaunt off as soon as someone snaps their fingers. I would definitely tell them that this weekend (or your first available time) would be the best you could do on such short notice.

If it was my horse, I would pick him up and have the vet waiting to put him down when I got back. If it could be done up at the college, I'd pick up the tab if they could make all of the arrangements. If they could do it tomorrow, let them and just send the check.

One issue- if this is a "free lease" situation, maybe they feel obligated to let you make the final decision. I have three horses out on free leases and I require that they contact me before the horse goes anywhere else. If it's obvious that the horse's time has ended or catastrophic illness or injury happens, they can put the horse down and just let me know. If it's up in the air, the final decision is mine. I don't want my old guys to suffer month after month, neglected in a pasture nor do I want them bounced around from home to home. Better a quiet end than the other possibilities.

[skrgirl]

Before you make any decision I would talk to the diagnostic vet and see what he has to say, then have him call your personal vet, then talk to your vet and see what he thinks.

If you do decide to bring him home, maybe the college could help with cost of rehab in some way since he was hurt at their place. Did you sign a contract at all saying they were fully responsible for any medical bills while they were in ownership of him?

[katarine]

Also, they said you COULD pick him up today. Not HAD TO, or if you didn't they'd send him to an auction. They probably thought that since you had seemed so interested in him not too long ago, that you would WANT to take him back as soon as possible. I wouldn't be so hard on them. Many places don't call at all.


DING DING DING we have a winner. I don't think they have a needleful of pink joice at his jugular, unless she's there by sundown.

As Appassionato said, call, ask about getting him this weekend, get him home, YES< go get him- and see what he needs. Heaven knows he may be fine as a pasture pal, OR, he may have earned a quiet, calm, safe place to be put down.

Whatever you do, best of luck and go and do what's best for him.

[BAC]

I very well may get flamed for this, but...

Can you pick him up and have him put down? A 20 + year old horse that needs a long rehab and may not ever be pasture sound is facing a very bleak future.

Unless you can find him a new home I think this might be the kindest way to handle this situation. It sounds as though he has earned the right to a peaceful end.

[A. P.]

Just curious: when you donated him, was the issue of what happens when he is no longer usable discussed?

If you donate a horse, and have specific ideas about retirement, this should be written into a contract at the time of donation.

[nightsong]

It sounds like they had already made arrangements for the horse, and the "pick him up TODAY" was a one-time offer.

[2ndyrgal]

Thank you for your kind responses. I have donated several wonderful show horses to this program, in fact they have another of my former horses besides this one. They state that there program will not permit them to keep any horses that are not able to be worked, hence, any long recovery time, regardless of the prognosis would have put him in the same situation. Which I would not have expected, I believe it is that this is a career ending injury( big suspensory tear) Quite frankly, I did expect them to contact me, when he was older, which is why over the last couple of years I have been in close contact with them, thinking that 20 something for an intercolligiate type hunter is getting up there, though he still looked and acted great when I saw him this last summer. My mistake I suppose, was in presuming they wouldn't just "use him completely up" until he was no longer serviceably sound. I guess I should have asked. This is a prestigeous college, one would, not really think that sort of thing at all.

I spoke at length with my vet, who is not only familiar with the horse, but the vets that work for the program, the concensus was, if they quit with him, he is well and truly done, and should probably not return home to me, only to be put down as the winter progresses and he goes from being the pampered show horse to being "one of the boys" something he never did well. He was a bit of a prima donna, if it was too hot, too windy, too whatever, he wanted back in his stall. Which was fine when he was at a mega bucks boarding facility that brought him right in, changed his blankets, etc. But I work 12 hour days, leave at dark, get home at dark, sometimes, the boys come in, sometimes, it's just too damn late, and they live out w/ heated water and run ins. fine for a haffie and a draft cross with full winter coats. Not good for an aged, thin skinned TB ex show hunter. If I leave him out, he'll freeze and the big horse will kick his butt. If I bring him in, he'll be alone and miserable. I do trust that they will make a decent decision on either a retirement home for him or euthanasia. I truly do not believe that they would ever consign a horse to auction. I still believe in the program, and really wouldn't hesitate to donate again, I just have to trust that they will do what is right by a faithful servant.

[katarine]

This may be an ignorant question, as I don't know the answer- but couldn't he have hurt himself just One Big Time- and that did him in, with the serious suspensory tear? Is there room here for them to have been doing the right thing, with suitable work/schedule for his age & fitness and he just blammo, hurt himself For Good?

It seems you are certain they ruined him with excessive work, and at the same time you are also certain they will do right by him? Those two certainties seem at odds with one another.

[Critters Everywhere]

This may be an ignorant question, as I don't know the answer- but couldn't he have hurt himself just One Big Time- and that did him in, with the serious suspensory tear? Is there room here for them to have been doing the right thing, with suitable work/schedule for his age & fitness and he just blammo, hurt himself For Good?

It seems you are certain they ruined him with excessive work, and at the same time you are also certain they will do right by him? Those two certainties seem at odds with one another.

I was thinking the same thing. And suspensory tear that severe sounds more like an actual injury than 'using him up'.

Have you asked what they plan on doing with him if you don't take him? It does sound like euthanization would be the kindest thing for him (since it doesn't sound like he would enjoy retirement).

Sorry you're having to go through this!

[archieflies]

Also, they said you COULD pick him up today. Not HAD TO, or if you didn't they'd send him to an auction. They probably thought that since you had seemed so interested in him not too long ago, that you would WANT to take him back as soon as possible. I wouldn't be so hard on them. Many places don't call at all.

I agree, a lot of people are being quick to jump onto how cruel and mean riding programs are and how the horse will obviously get sent to sluaghter because the people there don't care enough. Even wanting the name of the place so they can be bashed? Come on... I wish I had a horse that could jump fences as big as the conclusions some of you jump to.

Could it be possible (since you don't describe the nature of the injury) that the TODAY meant either, "If you really want him, you'll need to come soon, otherwise we feel like he should be put out of his misery quickly," or, "He's in need of immediate care we can't give him, so if you can't come quickly, we'll put him down," or simply "You can have him as soon as you want"? I don't see anything in the OP's post that indicates the school was sending him off to the slaughterhouse. If making a few bucks off him for meat was their plan, they probably wouldn't have even called. Calling you to let you know the horse had an injury that they couldn't care for sounds liek they CARED to me.

ETA: Didn't read OP's latest post re: suspensory before writing this, but doesn't really change my opinon

[3fatponies]

I truly do not believe that they would ever consign a horse to auction. I still believe in the program, and really wouldn't hesitate to donate again, I just have to trust that they will do what is right by a faithful servant.

Is there a reason that you simply can't ask them, rather than trusting that "do the right thing" means the same to both you and this institution?

[Posting Trot]

I just have to trust that they will do what is right by a faithful servant.

I understand that you feel as though the program is run by decent people whom you trust, but I still would make sure (with my own eyes) that they do the right thing by this horse (in Reagan's words "trust but verify").

College programs often are run on pretty tight money, and euthanasia is not cheap. Finding a suitable retirement home and then paying the retirement board is not cheap either.

If you care about what happens to the horse, you need to be a little more proactive.

JMHO.

[archieflies]

They state that there program will not permit them to keep any horses that are not able to be worked, hence, any long recovery time, regardless of the prognosis would have put him in the same situation. Which I would not have expected, I believe it is that this is a career ending injury( big suspensory tear)

I wouldn't question their motives here... remember, most school equestrian programs answer to the school, who sets their policies and budgets, and the school is not always run by horse people... a policy to sell or give back injured horses is a pretty common thing, especially in a school that is constantly having to tweak the budget and cut costs wherever possible. Schools just don't have the extra money laying around (or the space) to take care of a horse thats not able to earn its keep, like private owners would. I've seen many a horse sold (and good homes found) or sent home when there was going to be a layup- not always career ending.

As for assuming that 20 was getting old to be usable for the team- even if a horse isn't showable, there is always a need for more horses for light hacks and anything to get in an extra ride for the students, even if its not jumping. Also, at least where I went to school, the team horses were also used for ridinig classes open to students not on the team- and for those, we used the oldest, quietest horses we had, as long as they were sound. This was the primary job for the older ones, but it wasn't very hard riding.

[dawglover]

And what's to say that the "retirement home" they might send him to isn't going to chuck him out in the back 40 to fend for himself?
A lot of people have the "Oh, he'll adjust to living out attitude"...

Unless someone's going to be paying full board on this old fellow, that's likely what will happen if they don't euthanize him.

[Kimberlee]

I would make sure you know how this ends.

I had a friend who had a young, talented warmblood that had an injury, and in the process of recovery got a staff infection that entered the joint, and ended any possiblity of a complete sound recovery. Because of her limited resources she simply sold the horse back to the breeder. To this day she wonders if the horse if living, or has been put down, etc. But won't call the breeder to find out.
After having to put my mare down due to injury last sept. I have to say being there to say good bye was very important to me.

You shouldn't wonder how this ended for him.

[BeastieSlave]

I'm with the others - don't assume.
Find out what happens to your horse. You might be pleasantly surprised (maybe one of 'his' students will provide him with TLC and retirement), but even if you aren't it's better to know than to wonder....

[goeslikestink]

you say a fiathful servant it wouldnt hurt you to makesure where hes going now would it --go see him you say you love the old boy then go see the horse

[philosoraptor]

Any updates? How is he doing since his injury?

[halla]

I would definitely definitely check. The management could have changed, you never know. At the school I ride at (I am not a student), there are some rumors floating around about just what "retirement" of the horses entails, and all manner of other weirdness that I won't go into since it's only rumor. But the rumors aren't pretty.....

[3fatponies]

I would definitely definitely check. The management could have changed, you never know. At the school I ride at (I am not a student), there are some rumors floating around about just what "retirement" of the horses entails, and all manner of other weirdness that I won't go into since it's only rumor. But the rumors aren't pretty.....

It could very well be true. I do know one program personally which sends the horse to a sale if they can't use him--sound or not. Where they go from there is anyone's guess, but for a lame horse, the options are not good. Personally, in a case like this, I think the best advice given was the post which urged the OP to be proactive, 'cause honestly, if the original owner isn't concerned enough to be proactive, no one else is going to be. And the horse will pay the price, as always. :no:

[goeslikestink]

i am with you on that one 3fat ponies and that upsets me abit
as the horse has been a loyal servant to all concern but they arnt that concerned about him-- op go seee the horse and makesure he going where he should be and not in pain-- if you not concerned as you stated hoep they do the rthight thing by him -- then shame on you

[JoZ]

Forgive me if I'm drawing the wrong conclusions from the information given but... someone sounds petty and uncaring, and it isn't the school. This post could be titled "I wanted him back until he became unuseable, but now I'm putting blinders on and singing la-la-la everything will be hunky-dory if I just pretend it's so".

[hot~2~trot]

[QUOTE=2ndyrgal;2042466]I donated a horse several years ago to an intercollegiate program. QUOTE]

about 13 years ago I was running a 25 student lesson program on a farm I created for the owners...we went from bare land to a remarkable place in about 18 mos....I miss it every day ....the riding program was Pony Club based but spread over all riding styles as pony club is so "english" :) and exclusive it needed tweaking...

anyway we were looking for lesson horses and a lady called and told us about a big ole gelding she had....he was 17.1 TB dark bay and had a freeze brand of the state of TX on his shoulder...he was cheap cheap cheap even back then and we bought him...this was the story she told us....take as fact or grain of salt but I repest is as she told it to us...:)

she had been a student at Virgina Intermont,this horse was a lesson horse there and held their "high jump record" of four of five feet or some such...and he began to lose his brilliance they gave him/or she bought him? when she graduated/left....

anyway,we loved him but suitable for light riding W/T was about all.....but to see these tiny 7 and 8 yos on this giant kind gelding and under his feet and clambered all over thim like a old workhorse and sitting five deep to have pics taken was heart warming...he was worth every single bit of food we put in him..:winkgrin: ...his "problem" was a nasty case of ringbone and complicated by his old age, we one day buried him there on that farm

I had tried to call back to VI but they said there had been a shift of barn management and while they "remembered" him they knew nothing about him....(or something :( )

anyway...my thought was they should have had a greater obligation to the animal that they got got for free most likely,used to make tuition on and they dumped him...and maybe the line I was fed about him was crap ??? feel free to correct my thinking on any of that...but it turned me off to the whole school donation thing :(

Tamara in TN

I think you are being very unfair, especially in mentioning VI. Growing up in that area, with a trainer that graduated from there, I can vouch for their wonderful program and fabulous horsecare... almost to the point of obsessiveness. VI did have a huge change in management when Eddie came in... my trainer even quit teaching there to mainly focus on her own private barn. With a whole slew of new trainers (which i promise you they've had in the time period your thinking of) of course the new ones wont know anything about the horses they did not experience. Obviously if he held such a record they knew "of him" like they said, but it seems as though it was mostly as a legacy, more than actual experience with them. And don't think I'm too bias, I am not attending school there, but that was NOT because the horse program as well as the school are not fabulous. In any situation, I have every intention of donating my horse to them when it is his time, which is looking like the near future. All of the trainers there are very caring and do the best they can for the horses they have. I just think you made kind of an unjust assumption to a program that is very deserving of their donated horses on a major bullitin board, and I would hate for anyone to have the wrong idea of VI

[nightsong]

You know, hot~to~trot, when I read the post you quoted, I completely missed the reference to the school. But now that you have posted, it's burned into my brain.

[KellyS]

Forgive me if I'm drawing the wrong conclusions from the information given but... someone sounds petty and uncaring, and it isn't the school.

I completely agree! I'm sorry, but if this were my horse, I would never leave it up to the school to decide his fate. I feel sorry for this old guy! The least you could do is either make sure he is euthanized or find a home for him (versus letting the school place him and never knowing what happens).

This horse gave his all for you and this school over all these years--don't you care what happens to him? If he's the prima donna that you say he is (and I have a 22-year-old Thoroughbred who is exactly the same), then there is a very high chance that he may be retired to a home that can't provide for his needs and he will suffer. I could never live with myself if my old guy faced that. :no:

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;2043185]

I think you are being very unfair, especially in mentioning VI. With a whole slew of new trainers (which i promise you they've had in the time period your thinking of) of course the new ones wont know anything about the horses they did not experience. Obviously if he held such a record they knew "of him" like they said, but it seems as though it was mostly as a legacy, more than actual experience with them. I just think you made kind of an unjust assumption to a program that is very deserving of their donated horses on a major bullitin board, and I would hate for anyone to have the wrong idea of VI

I'm not trying to be unfair....and I was second owner to him after the school...the seller could have been full of crap...:) which I noted...the management shift there had been in the about two years she had him, so between 15 and 13 years ago....so it can hardly be current admistration....

the horse himself has been dead and buried 10 years now...when I called VI 13 years ago right after we bought him,ago no one knew of him then except as you say a rumor or legacy of a big bay show jumper...:no: and this was w/in 24 mos of the time she claimed to have owned him...

I'm sure it 's a nice enough school...and they prob did the old guy a favor giving him to this girl, who then sold him to me...but I always wondered if his donor knew or cared about where he finally ended up...?? so do other donors make "final" arrangements or expect the school to....?? he had a fine life at the end I promise...:yes:

Tamara in TN

[King's Ransom]

You know, I thought that "someone sounds petty and uncaring" when I first saw the title of the thread. Something about "Now that he isn't USABLE" really turned me off.

Yes, I think it makes you a bad mom if you don't care about your horse "now that he isn't USABLE." If you can't rehab him, or if he can't be re-habbed, that is a different story. But it sounds like you just don't want the school dumping an unusable horse back on you. Even though he was YOUR horse. And now you don't want to be bothered to even find out what they are going to do with him.

Bad mom.

[411]

Forgive me if I'm drawing the wrong conclusions from the information given but... someone sounds petty and uncaring, and it isn't the school. This post could be titled "I wanted him back until he became unuseable, but now I'm putting blinders on and singing la-la-la everything will be hunky-dory if I just pretend it's so".
I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but think the same thing. This "faithful servant" deserves better. If it were my horse, I'd do everything I could to find the best solution for him, whether that means re-homing him or euthanizing him, or gasp, making arrangements to care for him myself, and not just assume someone else will take care of the unpleasant details. :no:

[2ndyrgal]

It is not that I do not want him back because he is "unusable". I sent them a wonderful horse that I had shown successfully that was 14 yrs old and had never taken a lame step. I did not expect to get him back in anywhere near that condition, I did expect to get him back. What I did not expect was a call that was "your horse now has needs we cant meet and is of no use to us, please come and get him." They have not let me know what his fate will be if I do not. He is not a horse that I can turn out with mine, or keep as I do my current horses. This does NOT mean I do not care what happens to him, of course I do. So I should bring him home, watch him hobble around on 3 legs until I can't stand it and put him down.And rip my heart out again. So those of you who say "shame on me" don't think that the university that has had him, riding and competing on him the last SIX years has any responsibility because, well, their programs depend on donations and they just don't have much to work with and well, if they use the horses completely up then dump them, well, why are we surprised? Really. I did NOT donate some piece of crap that wasn't winning for me, I donated a wonderful horse, that was extremely competitive because I think it is a wonderful program and they deserve NICE horses, not just second hand stuff. I donated my horse, and the other two, because I had taken up foxhunting and none of the horses were suitable for that. I kept in touch, visited a couple times a year and as he was aging, contacted them over the summer with hints that the old boy might be ready to come home. They assured me he was still going strong and they were going to keep him forever. Til he couldn't be ridden. Til he would no longer "suit". So then I get, you can come as early as TODAY, so he won't be a bother for us anymore. My husband and I have donated horses and $$$ in excess of 20K over the last several years and we don't have any affiliation with the program at all. The university can certainly afford to provide a horse that COST THEM NOTHING with either a suitable retirement in a home that can meet the needs of an old horse with special needs going into winter, or provide him with a dignified end. I've been on the end of enough lead ropes on the last day, thank you very much, and I've visited vibrant race horses I took care of years ago, only to be saddened seeing them headbobbing lame, so someone could get that last cheap stud fee. So I am sorry, but to bring home a horse so I can be the one to put him down, and watch him get winched into the dead horse guys truck, isn't really what I want my last memory of him to be. For any of you that would like that responsibility, pm me and I will be glad to put you in contact with the appropriate person.

[catknsn]

So I am sorry, but to bring home a horse so I can be the one to put him down, and watch him get winched into the dead horse guys truck, isn't really what I want my last memory of him to be.

You may find this harsh, but honestly, your feelings are not as important in this scenario as what is best for the horse. We all have to deal with death sometime. You owe it to this boy to ensure he has a peaceful end that is as painless and quick as possible. If you don't want to see all of that, pick him up and drop him off at the vet's. I'm sure your vet will euthanize him after you have left and deal with disposal. Most vets do. If you can't handle dropping him off at the vet's, pay a professional hauler. Whatever. But ultimately it's your responsibility.

[King's Ransom]

So because you want to preserve your memory, you are not even going to check and BE SURE what has happened to him? And it sounds like, if you can donate all this money, you must have plenty of it.

You do what you want, but you came on this BB and asked if we thought you were a bad mom. My opinion is yes. If you are not even going to find out and MAKE SURE that he is taken care of properly because you are so danged spoiled that you don't want to upset your sweet little memories, then you are lousy mom and I am really glad you aren't MY mom!

[KellyS]

It doesn't matter what the school's responsibility is or isn't...the only thing that matters is DOING WHAT IS RIGHT for the horse. If the school isn't going to do it, then it is your responsibility to do it as a caring horse owner.

I'm sorry, but it is just an incredibly selfish attitude to say that you don't want to bring him home and put him down because it will be hard on you. So it would be easier to depend on the school to place him and hope he's not out in some field in the middle of winter fending for himself with a bad leg? Or at an auction? :uhoh:

I leased my own horse to a college program and brought him to my farm when they freaking "damaged" him to the point where he was no longer useable. He has the most wonderful life now and it was the least I could do for him. I don't waste my time playing the blame game and trying to put my responsibilites as a horse owner on someone else. If I couldn't provide the care he needed then I would damn well make it so I could.

[BeastieSlave]

I'm sorry, but I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt until that last post....

I have been on the end of enough leadropes too. Let me tell you about other people's old campaigners that I was there at the end for: The old pony who had taken who knows how many kids to top honors, the fine old gentleman who descended from top show horse, to schoolie, to pasture puff, and the old jumper who wanted to run, but had to shuffle.

Each of those horses ended up with me at the end. I didn't know any of them in their prime. They were all well past that and living as comfortably in retirement as I could make them. I cried my eyes out for them and for the fact that NOT ONE OF THEIR OWNERS OR CONNECTIONS could be bothered to give them a send off. Honestly, it pisses me off that people can stick their heads in the sand and hope for the best but not do anything to assure it. It's one thing to be a kid and have no control over what happens to your horses, but when you are an adult you have an obligation....

[SafeHorses]

Have to say that I agree with those who think you are being a bad mom, and I phrase it that way because that's what you wanted to know..."am I being a bad mom?"

Catknsn put it best: it isn't about you, it's about doing the right thing for your horse. From what you've posted here, you're putting your feelings ahead of his well being. And to top it off, you are all bent out of shape at the university for not doing the things you think they should when you obviously didn't spell out these contingencies when you donated him.

[Simkie]

So I am sorry, but to bring home a horse so I can be the one to put him down, and watch him get winched into the dead horse guys truck, isn't really what I want my last memory of him to be.
What? WHAT? Are you kidding me? Are you telling me that you would rather this grand old man, this "wonderful horse," go to slaughter so you won't have to watch him drop when the vet euthanises him? What do you REALLY think the likelyhood is that your horse will be sent somewhere where he will not SUFFER?

I am just FLOORED that any educated horse person would allow a horse go to a potentially VERY bad place, just so they won't have to be sad. If you don't pick up the horse, what on earth are you going to tell yourself so that you won't be sad? Will you make up the perfect situation for your horse and imagine him there?

I just REALLY don't get this. :eek:

[JoZ]

Do you think anyone actually WANTS to euthanize their old friend? Have you not read the threads full of heartache, self-doubt, anguish, remorse, guilt and misery? Guess what, it doesn't matter what you want. Putting a horse down is the last unselfish gift you can give. Shame on you for thinking of yourself instead of giving it.

[2ndyrgal]

I am not the horse's owner. I am his former owner. The university owns him. So I should also make sure that any horse I have owned or sold or given away during my lifetime because I have piles of money should be brought home or given his final rite of passage by my hand? Is it selfish that I do not want to be the one to do this. Yes. But really, do none of you feel that the university that owns him has any responsibility to do the right thing? And my presumption of what the university will actually do is based on the fact that they "retired" a 5 yr old TB I had donated to the program (he popped a curb and didn't really like the whole "lesson" thing) to a lady that foxhunts in Ohio, who was going to rehab him for a hunter. They were supposed to notify me on that horse as well, did not. I found out who they sold him to because the woman that purchased him phoned to ask if I had his JC papers as she owned him now. I was a bit surprised, but not upset as he had a nice home, and a new job (she still owns him, but didn't have much more luck making him a hunt horse than I did) So there is really nothing in the history that suggests the horse will meet a bad end. I am not upset that they asked me to take the horse back. I am upset that they asked me to do it now, with almost no notice, at a time when I have unsuitable facilities, and as little time as one could possibly have to care for horses. Mine are very low care types, barefoot, furry, young, easy keepers, it is why I own them. My horse living situation is quite different now. What the horse needs is full care, not what I am doing now. As for the snarky little comments about being able to donate horses translating to having enough money that I shouldn't worry about it, it isn't about the money, it's more about putting the responsibility where it belongs, on the ones that own the horse NOW. I have done the colic surgery and rehab only to have to put a horse down anyway and forfeit not only my heart (again) but my insurance money(I was told by the insurance company that I could simply wait until he colicked again then have him put down, that ws the only way they would pay, so I made the right decision and lost my best horse and $30K.) Put down my very first horse 30 years ago because they really didn't treat navicular back then and even if they had, I never could have afforded it. Taken the last drive to the vets on the last day and stayed til the last breath. Been there,more than once, and with having been at the track, many more times than most of you, have I held a head in my lap, with my knees in the dirt and tears in my eyes while I stroked a head one last time. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say what a selfish attitude I have and that I don't care. I should put the horse first. Does no one here think that the university has any responsibility at all????????

[YoungFilly]

:sadsmile:

[Appassionato]

It is not that I do not want him back because he is "unusable". I sent them a wonderful horse that I had shown successfully that was 14 yrs old and had never taken a lame step. I did not expect to get him back in anywhere near that condition, I did expect to get him back. What I did not expect was a call that was "your horse now has needs we cant meet and is of no use to us, please come and get him." They have not let me know what his fate will be if I do not. He is not a horse that I can turn out with mine, or keep as I do my current horses. This does NOT mean I do not care what happens to him, of course I do. So I should bring him home, watch him hobble around on 3 legs until I can't stand it and put him down.And rip my heart out again. So those of you who say "shame on me" don't think that the university that has had him, riding and competing on him the last SIX years has any responsibility because, well, their programs depend on donations and they just don't have much to work with and well, if they use the horses completely up then dump them, well, why are we surprised? Really. I did NOT donate some piece of crap that wasn't winning for me, I donated a wonderful horse, that was extremely competitive because I think it is a wonderful program and they deserve NICE horses, not just second hand stuff. I donated my horse, and the other two, because I had taken up foxhunting and none of the horses were suitable for that. I kept in touch, visited a couple times a year and as he was aging, contacted them over the summer with hints that the old boy might be ready to come home. They assured me he was still going strong and they were going to keep him forever. Til he couldn't be ridden. Til he would no longer "suit". So then I get, you can come as early as TODAY, so he won't be a bother for us anymore. My husband and I have donated horses and $$$ in excess of 20K over the last several years and we don't have any affiliation with the program at all. The university can certainly afford to provide a horse that COST THEM NOTHING with either a suitable retirement in a home that can meet the needs of an old horse with special needs going into winter, or provide him with a dignified end. I've been on the end of enough lead ropes on the last day, thank you very much, and I've visited vibrant race horses I took care of years ago, only to be saddened seeing them headbobbing lame, so someone could get that last cheap stud fee. So I am sorry, but to bring home a horse so I can be the one to put him down, and watch him get winched into the dead horse guys truck, isn't really what I want my last memory of him to be. For any of you that would like that responsibility, pm me and I will be glad to put you in contact with the appropriate person.

Not trying to flame you, I want to ask a genuine question. What if he was not at the school and was home with you when he got hurt? You wanted them to call, and they did. So long as they agree to a reasonable timeline for you to pick him up (they better) or have him euth'ed there, what difference does it make?

[asterix]

Not to pile on, here, but it is amazing that you are willing to just assume "all will be well," when you yourself say it would be hard to give him the care you think he needs.

If he is unable to live out over the winter with 2 other horses at your place, what were you going to do with him if they HAD given him back to you "usable" at age 20?? He'd still have been the thin-skinned aged prima donna you describe. Where would you have put him then?

Yes, in a perfect world, the university has a responsibility to him. But that is a "moral" responsibility, not a legal one. Kind of like yours. I've worked in university programs, and as someone else said, they have to answer to the university, which regards the horses as property, not a kindly old professor who deserves a nice retirement. If you want us to feel outrage that the university is dropping the ball, well, so far, they haven't. They've contacted you, so they are making an effort to give him a better end than auction. The people who run the program may not have a ton of leeway in terms of what they can do to "dispose" of him now that he cannot be used by the university.

Look, do the right thing. Make certain he has a peaceful end to his life, whether that is in a proper retirement home, or by humane euthanasia. If you don't want to be there, fine. But do not walk away from him. He only has you.

[JoZ]

It doesn't really matter whether the university has any responsibility. The question is, will they accept responsibility and do the right thing by this horse? If you are absolutely sure they will, then fine, leave him in their care and to their judgment. I wouldn't be totally confident. If you have doubts, then there is a range of things you could do, starting with the simple question "what will you do with him if I don't come get him?" If you have asked that already, I missed it. If you have not, why not?

[Appassionato]

I am not the horse's owner. I am his former owner. The university owns him. So I should also make sure that any horse I have owned or sold or given away during my lifetime because I have piles of money should be brought home or given his final rite of passage by my hand? Is it selfish that I do not want to be the one to do this. Yes. But really, do none of you feel that the university that owns him has any responsibility to do the right thing? And my presumption of what the university will actually do is based on the fact that they "retired" a 5 yr old TB I had donated to the program (he popped a curb and didn't really like the whole "lesson" thing) to a lady that foxhunts in Ohio, who was going to rehab him for a hunter. They were supposed to notify me on that horse as well, did not. I found out who they sold him to because the woman that purchased him phoned to ask if I had his JC papers as she owned him now. I was a bit surprised, but not upset as he had a nice home, and a new job (she still owns him, but didn't have much more luck making him a hunt horse than I did) So there is really nothing in the history that suggests the horse will meet a bad end. I am not upset that they asked me to take the horse back. I am upset that they asked me to do it now, with almost no notice, at a time when I have unsuitable facilities, and as little time as one could possibly have to care for horses. Mine are very low care types, barefoot, furry, young, easy keepers, it is why I own them. My horse living situation is quite different now. What the horse needs is full care, not what I am doing now. As for the snarky little comments about being able to donate horses translating to having enough money that I shouldn't worry about it, it isn't about the money, it's more about putting the responsibility where it belongs, on the ones that own the horse NOW. I have done the colic surgery and rehab only to have to put a horse down anyway and forfeit not only my heart (again) but my insurance money(I was told by the insurance company that I could simply wait until he colicked again then have him put down, that ws the only way they would pay, so I made the right decision and lost my best horse and $30K.) Put down my very first horse 30 years ago because they really didn't treat navicular back then and even if they had, I never could have afforded it. Taken the last drive to the vets on the last day and stayed til the last breath. Been there,more than once, and with having been at the track, many more times than most of you, have I held a head in my lap, with my knees in the dirt and tears in my eyes while I stroked a head one last time. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say what a selfish attitude I have and that I don't care. I should put the horse first. Does no one here think that the university has any responsibility at all????????

I think you'd be better off presenting your case with less aggression and more sorrow for your old campaigner. This sounds very much like what I just raised Hell about in my thread earlier about the "just fix it" types. You need an SUV to hilltop in, not a horse with this attitude of "well golly geez, it broke!"

Does someone else need to step in for the old horse? Are you that financially incapacitated? You wanted the school to call you, they did. You were pissed that with another one, they didn't call. Which is it? why did you donate again if you were pissed at them?

because I think it is a wonderful program and they deserve NICE horses, not just second hand stuff. I donated my horse, and the other two, because I had taken up foxhunting and none of the horses were suitable for that

Who dropped who when it didn't suit them anymore? I'm all for people selling a horse, or donating it, or whatever to find "suitable" horses. Really, I have no problem with it. But you opened Pandora's Box when you wanted them to call you. now they have, and other than a timeline issue of when to pick him up/get this dealt with, you're upset? I don't get it.

[mazu]

I am not the horse's owner. I am his former owner. The university owns him. So I should also make sure that any horse I have owned or sold or given away during my lifetime because I have piles of money should be brought home or given his final rite of passage by my hand? Is it selfish that I do not want to be the one to do this. Yes. But really, do none of you feel that the university that owns him has any responsibility to do the right thing? And my presumption of what the university will actually do is based on the fact that they "retired" a 5 yr old TB I had donated to the program (he popped a curb and didn't really like the whole "lesson" thing) to a lady that foxhunts in Ohio, who was going to rehab him for a hunter. They were supposed to notify me on that horse as well, did not. I found out who they sold him to because the woman that purchased him phoned to ask if I had his JC papers as she owned him now. I was a bit surprised, but not upset as he had a nice home, and a new job (she still owns him, but didn't have much more luck making him a hunt horse than I did) So there is really nothing in the history that suggests the horse will meet a bad end. I am not upset that they asked me to take the horse back. I am upset that they asked me to do it now, with almost no notice, at a time when I have unsuitable facilities, and as little time as one could possibly have to care for horses. Mine are very low care types, barefoot, furry, young, easy keepers, it is why I own them. My horse living situation is quite different now. What the horse needs is full care, not what I am doing now. As for the snarky little comments about being able to donate horses translating to having enough money that I shouldn't worry about it, it isn't about the money, it's more about putting the responsibility where it belongs, on the ones that own the horse NOW. I have done the colic surgery and rehab only to have to put a horse down anyway and forfeit not only my heart (again) but my insurance money(I was told by the insurance company that I could simply wait until he colicked again then have him put down, that ws the only way they would pay, so I made the right decision and lost my best horse and $30K.) Put down my very first horse 30 years ago because they really didn't treat navicular back then and even if they had, I never could have afforded it. Taken the last drive to the vets on the last day and stayed til the last breath. Been there,more than once, and with having been at the track, many more times than most of you, have I held a head in my lap, with my knees in the dirt and tears in my eyes while I stroked a head one last time. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say what a selfish attitude I have and that I don't care. I should put the horse first. Does no one here think that the university has any responsibility at all????????

You sound a bit irrational. I don't blame you for that--I'm sure I'd sound the same way if I got the call you did--but you're really not making much sense here.

The university's responsibility was to call you when the time came--per your request. They have fulfilled that responsibility. It's not fair to be "irked" that it came at an inconvenient time for you--how was the university to know that your situation was not amenable right now? did you tell them that? ask them NOT to call you if your horse got injured because you now work long hours?

In general, yes, I think riding programs should take more responsibility for horses who get injured under their care. But it's often not possible, given the constraints they're under, and the thing is--most people who donate horses know this. If you knew that your other horse was sold because he was not suitable for their purposes, you should have anticipated that they'd not be able to keep this horse when the time came. In fact, it seems like you anticipated this, given that you ASKED them to call you.

I don't understand. They did exactly what you asked them to. Of course it's an emotional and heartbreaking thing, but ... is it really fair to blame the school right now? You knew the limitations of the program you were dealing with.

If euthanasia is called for and it's not possible for you to be there with your horse, you can make other arrangements. I'm not going to slam you for not wanting to be there (and I think it's pretty rude to do so, actually)--everyone deals with this sort of thing differently. But the ball's in your court, and I don't think the blame game is that appropriate at the moment.

Take care. I'm genuinely sorry you're going through this. I know it's not easy. :sadsmile:

[KellyS]

The OP talks about this "wonderful" horse that she was willing to buy back last summer when he was sound. But now she wants nothing to do with him because he needs help or may need to be put down. The OP is just as bad as the university!

And again, it doesn't freaking matter what the university's responsibility is...all that matters is letting the horse have a peaceful end to his life. Why don’t you make arrangements for him instead of “hoping the university does the right thing.” Be the bigger person and do the right thing yourself.

[King's Ransom]

Yes, the University has a responsibility. But that is not what you asked us. You asked if we thought you were a bad mom. Now that I see that you don't give a flying fig what happens to this horse, not even enough care to even FIND OUT what their plans are, I have developed an opinion.

You can't have it both ways. You asked if we thought you were a bad MOM. Now you say you are a former owner. Okay. You can be a former owner.

But you are not a MOM. Moms don't forget about their kids, especially when they are hurt and in need. Moms don't say their kids are someone else's responsiblity. They don't start talking about "holding people accountable" when it comes to their kids.

You can be a former owner. But you are not even a bad MOM. You just are not a MOM period. Face it. Accept it. Just don't refer to yourself as a MOM anymore, especially not when it comes to THIS horse whom you choose to forget about now that he is not usable.

[BeastieSlave]

You gave him away. He's not your problem anymore. Tell the school thanks for letting you know, but you won't be going to get him - and be done with it.

Is that what you wanted us to say?

[King's Ransom]

And I don't believe for one minute that it "is not about the money." That is what people always say when it is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. I just LOVE it when people say, "it's not about the money, it's about PERSONAL RESPONSBILITY." Good grief! The horse does not care WHO is responsible. YOU care because ... it is all about the money!!!!!:no:

[Simkie]

OP: Please post the details of the horse and how to get ahold of whoever is in charge of placing him. I have NO doubt that there are people on this board who will do THE RIGHT THING and either euthanize or find him a good home.

[2ndyrgal]

I am not upset they called me, I requested it. The timing is terrible, certainly not their fault. If he still belonged to me, I would have had time to slowly transition him over the last three years to being as hardy as he could be, pulled his shoes, given him time to grow a winter coat, possibly found him a docile "buddy", that wouldn't beat the crap out of him, or leave him miserable and alone. As I said, I have every reason to believe that they will find him a home that will meet his needs and keep him comfortable until the end. As a horseman, as I get older and more people and pets that I love die, it becomes harder each and every time. That I don't willingly want to rip my guts out again when I TRULY believe that this horse will not end up in a bad place may be hard for some of you to understand. I had a choice when I gave him to the program, I did ask them to call me. Did I have a romantic idea that at the end of his final season, when it came time for summer break they'd call and I'd just go down and pick him up and he'd live his days out here, yes, but over the last several years, my responsibilities have increased. I disagree with letting any organization off scott free, because they have "financial constraints". Much as with a private owner, if they can afford to compete and own horses, they should, like private horse owners, be ultimately responsible for there care, upto and including retirement arrangements and euthanasia. I can and will care for, treat, medicated and when necessary make the hard choice for the horses I now own, it is my responsibility. I am very saddened at his aging, and his condition. He was a SHOW horse, and he new it. He would be the last of 7 horses on a crowded 6 horse going to a show and he would litterally shove his way in and push them over till he got his butt on, he couldn't wait to go show, it was all he knew, and he was happy to do it. That he did it for them for so many years is wonderful. I have received an email indicating that they will absolutely find a suitable retirement location for him.

[JoZ]

OP: Please post the details of the horse and how to get ahold of whoever is in charge of placing him. I have NO doubt that there are people on this board who will do THE RIGHT THING and either euthanize or find him a good home.

Yes indeed... to the memory of my Jesse, who was put down in his field this summer with his head in my lap... I will help.

[EqTrainer]

One more person to say that it doesn't matter WHO you THINK should be responsible for this - if it turns out that you need to go get him and have him euthanized so that he doesn't go to auction then that is what you should do. Period.

NO ONE wants to euthanize their horse. Everyone does it, because it has to be done.

I guess, for you, the bottom line is going to be, what would you rather remember? Your horse being humanely euthanized or the specter of him possibly hanging from a meat hook, partially stunned, while he bleeds to death? YOU PICK.

[Sobriska]

Not sure I can check on here to follow this thread throughout tom, as I will be working and caring for a hubby who just had surgery. But, I want to offer to pay a portion of the cost to put this horse down if there is no one who will be able to take the chance on bringing him home to retire.
All I ask is that someone from this bb go and make sure this is done humanely. Pls don't leave it to the school to decide if they might gain by sending him to auction.
It won't help for me to pass judgement on the OP. Please, if there is anyone who is willing to be with the horse and the OP will agree to turn him over to them, PM or email and I will paypal or send MO asap. I will check email tom,so if there is someone nearby, do let me know.
Poor old boy:(

[sid]

OP: Not a motorcycle. This is a horse that at one time you loved and obviously gave you great joy, and others great joy. Because you requested it, he has now come "full circle" in his older age. Take the blinders off. These are the hard choices with old horses, injured horses who find them 'unusable" -- so sorry to have seen you use that term with a horse that you seem to have held deep in your heart at one time.

What will most likely help you is to do the right thing by this horse who has lived his life carting people around, obviously patiently and willingly, to help make them good riders and horsemen.

I wish for you that you can pull yourself up by the bootstraps and be good horseman and humantiarian. You'll feel better for it and will never have to look back and wonder if you did the right thing. In fact, it can be quite gratifying to let a good friend go to their "rest".

Frankly,what to is a no brainer for me and many others here, thus some of the harshness in the responses to you. The fact that you had to post is, I suspect for many, to help decide what do to is a bit troublesome.

Just picture your "beloved" horse headed off on a kill truck. That should tell you what to do. Terrible possiblity for certain, but succumbing into your own denial about the horse you asked to "get back" (about VI or your own fear of letting this horse "go" yourself) doesn't mean a hill of beans to this seemingly wonderful old fella. For crying out loud, you haven't even seen him or explained his injury fully. A bit like "chicken little"...that's troublesome too.

I really hope you'll think this through and let your conscience be your guide. Take a deep breath, and do the RIGHT thing for this horse. You'll never regret it --taking your old partner home and either rehabbing him if you can afford to (and he is recoverable) -- or letting him go in a kind and humane manner instead of fearing for his life in new surroundings with people and/or killers he does not know will be worth it.

As Simke said..there are folks here that would step in if you won't. Just say the word.

[Simkie]

Not sure I can check on here to follow this thread throughout tom, as I will be working and caring for a hubby who just had surgery. But, I want to offer to pay a portion of the cost to put this horse down if there is no one who will be able to take the chance on bringing him home to retire. This is a great idea Sobriska. I will also help to pay. If, by chance, this horse is in Colorado, I will hold the end of the lead rope and promise him green pastures before the needle, and I will pet his head and listen to his last breath afterwards.

[EqTrainer]

So are you going to actually MAKE SURE they are going to find him a suitable home or euthanize him - or are you going to just assume (hope) that they do? Have you actually been told exactly what will be done, or are you just hoping that it will be ok?

Because you know, if you just hope.. you will always wonder. IMO better to agree to take him and take him straight to a clinic to be euthanized rather than wonder if he ended up swinging from a meat hook.

[vxf111]

If the school won't euthanize him, there's no reason you have to have him transported. If he's suffering and needs to be put down, call a local vet in that area and arrange for rhat vet to go to the school and euthanize him there. Is a suspensory so bad that he's in immediate need of euthanization (genuine question, I am really not that knowledgeable about how bad they can be. I've known 2 horses that pulled suspensories and came back sound after stall rest, but I am guessing they can be much more severe).

[nightsong]

The fact that you had to post to help decide what do to

No, she had already decided. Look how defensive she is. Just wanted somebody to tell her "you're right; it WAS awfully inconsiderate of them to call you." Kinda not happening.

[blton9th]

I don't care who "should be responsible!" Be proactive. I am sorry you can't stand to be @ the end of the lead rope. Never easy, but this is not about you, and your feelings! It's about your old faithful friend. I can't figure out if it's kinda like out of sight, out of mind????? I could never leave any of my old buddies high and dry, and hope for the best. I am not trying to beat you up, but gosh darn it.:no: :no:
Could we donate some funds to help?

[Appassionato]

He would be the last of 7 horses on a crowded 6 horse going to a show and he would litterally shove his way in and push them over till he got his butt on, he couldn't wait to go show, it was all he knew, and he was happy to do it.

And you are questioning responsibility? I hope this was just an exaggeration.

I have received an email indicating that they will absolutely find a suitable retirement location for him.

Considering the person that demanded a phone call from the university doesn't want him now, I find this very hard to believe.

[BelladonnaLily]

I'd be happy to donate towards a peaceful end towards the old guy if someone finds out details. Poor guy. Depressing :no:

I'm not sure why the OP posted if she is claiming she is the "former owner" with no responsibility towards the horse. Why not just ignore the call?

[YoungFilly]

This is why I just gave money and support to that rescue that just burnt to the ground. There are people here who will help. If you want.

I so do not want to pile onto the OP, but this is definately putting blinkers on. So, maybe we can do a special christmas coth help thing, instead of beating the op to death.


I have a horse who is 6 who I would not ever imagine letting go of because of her health issues. Having horses is a big responsiblity.

[Appassionato]

I so do not want to pile onto the OP, but this is definately putting blinkers on. So, maybe we can do a special christmas coth help thing, instead of beating the op to death.

I was faithful to my old horse this whole time, can I have some money? :lol:

Seriously, I'm not against people who want to help out this old horse. Matter of fact, someone needs to. Obviously he's got no one else. but I hope the OP remembers, *I* for one have a looooong memory.

[2ndyrgal]

before you all get on the death wagon, read my last post. I have received an email from the BM at the university that since I am unable to provide him with the kind of retirement situation that would be most beneficial for him, that they will make sure he is placed in a retirement home that is suitable. They have several alumni who no longer ride, but have lovely farms and tons of time and tlc. For those of you that offered to send money, I am touched, as I said it is not financial. Kings Ransom, not everything in the world is motivated by money. I can easily afford to have him shipped home, dig a grave, gently place him in it, and erect a monument as big as the one of man'o war at the horse park. Yes I know eventually everything and everyone I have ever loved will die. Some deaths will be as merciful as they can possibly be, some will be long and horrible. If not wishing to watch another horse I knew in his glory days take a needle makes me somehow a monster, then so be it. That someone chooses not to be there at the end does not make them any less caring. I've held the leads and leashes of an awful lot of animals I met only that day, because their owners wanted the last memory to be of a living, breathing love with soft brown eyes. I have too many memories of the other kind, and no doubt more to come to want any I don't have to have. And enough all ready of the hanging on a meat hook bleeding out crap, no one needs that. Enough of the collecting money for euthanasia, if that was the only option, I would certainly not hesitate. There are plenty of horses that truly have no options, save it for them. If you read my last post, you will see that the old boy will get to live the life of Riley, just not with me.

[sid]

Nightsong..you are absolutely correct.

I'm trying REALLY hard to give the OP the benefit of the doubt and urge her to the what is morally and ethically right.

I'm such a freaking "fixer"...(wink!). This woman will regret it forever (I hope) if she does not take the reins right now for the benefit of this horse.

[King's Ransom]

Since the OP told us that "My husband and I have donated horses and $$$ in excess of 20K over the last several years" perhaps they could be the first ones to donate to the cause.

I agree with Appasionato. Someone should help this horse, but it sure seems like the world is upside down here. :no:

[sid]

I think that there is something really "missing" with this OP who claims to be a horseman.

[Sobriska]

2ndyrgal:
Are you willing to bring him home and allow COTH members to pay for him to get a peaceful send off? Or to allow a COTH member to go to the University and be with him?

I know you care. I know it is hard to be responsable for EVERY horse we have ever had. I do believe we MUST do our very best. Even if your very best is being there for him physically if you can't be financially?
It is going to be so much easier on you if you know you did your best.
The "what if's" are always so painful.
Don't be sorry you posted here. Even though the responses were sometimes harsh. Maybe just your post will insure this boy the send off he deserves.
For everyone else, can we hold back our judgement of the OP and just concentrate on a way to help the horse? He's all that really matters.

[King's Ransom]

I'm glad to hear that the University is doing as they should to provide a retirement home for this old boy. That is what they should do. I'm just not sure why this was posted in the first place. The OP made it sound like the University was heartless and trying to dump her unusable horse on her, she didn't want it and she didn't want to feel bad about that.

Maybe it's just a matter of e-mail miscommunication. I hope so. And I hope things are working out for the old boy.

[KellyS]

...you will see that the old boy will get to live the life of Riley, just not with me.

How do you know this? Just because the university says it's a "suitable" home means he will live the "life of Riley."

The truth is--you have absolutely no idea what kind of home he is going to end up in. Shame on you.

Geez! Makes me want to go out and hug my old boys--at least they will never be in this situation.

And count me in for helping send this grand old horse off to a peaceful end.

[Chevalnoir]

I agree with everyone who says this isn't about the College or about you - it's about the horse. If you were truly sure in your heart of hearts that you owe this horse *nothing* - you wouldn't have posted about this situation on this board.

I think deep down you feel you should make sure that this horse doesn't come to a bad end - you just don't want to be bothered.

Integrity is doing what you know to be right, whether it is convenient or not. It's generally harder to act with integrity in the short run than to do the easy thing - but I think it pays off in spades in the long run, because you do, after all, have to live with yourself.

It's not going to cost you anything but a bit of your time and effort to find out *exactly* what the college intends to do with this horse, and if they do in fact opt to place him in a retirement home, to make sure that such a retirement home is suitable for this horse (what makes you think he won't just stand out in somebody else's pasture shivering and being bullied by the rest of the herd if he's really such a primadonna?).

But from my experience - if an old owner who had the use of the horse during his best years, and has fond memories of him, finds it too onerous to provide a difficult horse with the kind of care he requires - the odds of a perfect stranger taking on that job are very, very slim indeed.

[nightsong]

I have received an email from the BM at the university that since I am unable to provide him with the kind of retirement situation that would be most beneficial for him, that they will make sure he is placed in a retirement home that is suitable.

the old boy will get to live the life of Riley

Does anyone else get the feeling that this "retirement home that is suitable" might be a polite way to say something bad? I think so, based on the replies. And I think the original poster might, also, given that she is still worked up about this.

[sid]

OP-- lots to think about tonight from the COTH "troops" to whom you posted about your dilemma.

Hope you wake up tomorrow and DO THE RIGHT THING for your old buddy. If you need help, there are many here that will help you through it.

[Appassionato]

Does anyone else get the feeling that this "retirement situation that would be the most beneficial for him" is a euphemism for something else? I think so, based on the replies. And I think the original poster might, also, given that she is still worked up about this.

I do. And I'll get flamed to pieces if I say more.

[NeedMyJavaFix]

But from my experience - if an old owner who had the use of the horse during his best years, and has fond memories of him, finds it too onerous to provide a difficult horse with the kind of care he requires - the odds of a perfect stranger taking on that job are very, very slim indeed.

Well said, Cheval. It's certainly possible that some wealthy alumnus with a lot of time on his/her hands will remember this old guy and step up...but which situation is more likely to build a strong bond between horse and rider: owner for years in the prime of the horse's show career, or occasional rider in a program where students are assigned to different horses all the time in order to prepare for intercollegiate competition?

[jetsmom]

The college that gave Champion Lodge to an alumni thought he was going to have a good life...look where he ended up.

Sobriska, you are so kind to make that offer.

I think the OP wants to stick her head in the sand and pretend he is going to be living a wonderful retirement.

OP- why don't you have a vet of your choice look at him and if he needs to be put down, have him do it there at the colllege. You don't even need to be there, but you do need to have YOUR vet, do it. Don't rely on the Univ to do it. It's too easy for someone to make a few bucks selling to killer buyers, or have them give him to a "wonderful alumni" like the one that got Champion Lodge, and have him end up in danger of being slaughtered.

[2ndyrgal]

This horse will be in a lovely retirement home this weekend with an alumni at her farm. They simply gave me the option of bringing him here. Kings Ransom, please read my last post for content. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, it is about my apparent inability to deal with any more death of something i love in my life unless I absolutely have to. Been there, done that. I am not as noble as the rest of you, who seem to relish and have a romantic idea of what a horses last moments are. If you are lucky, when your vet puts your horse down it's peaceful. Having worked in an equine vet facility and at the racetrack let me share this little tidbit with you. Oftentimes it isn't a peaceful sleepy passage over the rainbow bridge to the great pasture in the sky. Sometimes it does not go well. At ALL and it is absolutely the most awful, prolonged, suffering horrible death you can even imagine. Been there for those too. Nope, don't want to have to watch any animal die again unless I have no choice. Guess what. I have a choice and I don't have to watch another horse I love die, at least not this one. He will have as nice a life as possible and will go as peacefully as he can at the end. I will not be there, but someone with a kind heart and a gentle touch will, and that is good enough for me. Not one person on this whole BB (and I know you are out there) has guts enough to say they couldn't watch a beloved pet be put to death as they did not want that last image in their mind. I know those people are out there, because I watched them say goodbye and leave with tears while I held the lead or leash and people with mercy and heavy hearts took care of their pet for his final moments. I never blamed them. Recently lost a dear friend to cancer. We had lost a good friend to cancer in our youth, watched him suffer, wither away and finally die in so much pain morphine didn't even touch it. We swore to each other we would just go away,we'd never let our friends see us like that, just too hard. Grew up, only spoke once or twice a year. His brother let me know he had died, had sworn him to secrecy, not told any of his friends, we never said goodbye. At first, we were mad as hell, how could he do that? didn't he know how much we loved him? He did, in fact, which was why he chose to let the memory of how he was when he was young and full of life, be our last memory of him. I still cry when I remember, but I am glad that I didn't have to see him as an unrecognizable shell of his former self and have to live with an image neither of us wanted at the end of the day. So I will chose to remember a horse that gave me great joy, that had a wonderful second job, as a fiesty, honest, stubborn,difficult and full of life. To those of you that really think that he is still my absolute responsibilty, nothing I can say will change your opinions, you are entited to yours, I've certainly expressed mine on this forum from time to time, but once again, it's turned into a bashing, over the top train wreck and a forum for the folks who think that everything in life is done for convenience or money. Sometimes life events and background has a great deal to do with people's decisions.

[411]

OP, given you were quick to point out how much $$ you've donated to the university and were willing to erect a huge monument for this horse if you were to euthanize him, what's stopping you from funding his retirement??? So, you may not be his "owner" at present, but this horse served you well when you were showing him, and by your own admission, money isn't an issue.

I understand your facility might not be appropriate for him at this time, but there ARE retirement farms out there who are accustomed to taking care of pampered show horses. They're not that hard to find. My mare is at one such place, and I gladly write that check every month, because she deserves to "live the life of Riley." And yes, she's a thin skinned senstitive type who hated being turned out. So I found her a place where her stall opens to a pasture and she can come and go as she pleases. She's blanketed in winter, fly sheeted in summer, groomed and doted on.

I am a little disturbed by everyone jumping on the euthanize him bandwagon. My mare is retired due to a suspensory injury and putting her down was never an option. Is this horse doomed to a life of chronic pain? Am I missing something? Why does his life suddenly have no value???? :confused:

[snkstacres]

Welcome to my nightmare. So sad isnt it. I have two kids awaiting my home right this minute, horses donated to a childrens home. They are no longer viable in the program and there owners do not want them back. Can they come here? The manager of the program is a real sweetheart and doesnt make the rules, she just follows them. There is no funding to keep horses that are not earning there keep and loving them isnt enough. I took several in a number of years ago from this home and both have since gone on to cross the bridge. I am going to try and take in the next two as well as one I am sure is rehabable, but the other is blind. Ok, the cothers are headed my way this weekend and I ABSOLTELY have to get up two new paddocks for the blind kids I already have. Whats one more right????????????????? Cross your fingers.

The only thing you can really do is to see how your boy is and then make a decision. I am not sure what the facilities do with horses that are not accepted back by there owners. Believe it or not, the people doing the daily handling do get attached and will seek alternatives. But it is a good thing for people to know when they donate a horse to theraputic riding centers. They are always considered your horse and when they are no longer useable, they are still your horse.

Good luck and let me know how it goes. If we can possibly get enough done here after the fire, I have an additional 30 acres to fix fences on, we might just let your friend retire here.

thanks, Lori

[mazu]

I don't mean to interrupt an important pile-on, but does everyone here keep track of every horse they've ever owned? And never trust the people who own the horse after you to find him/her a good home if they need to sell/donate/place him/her?

I don't agree with the OP's attitude toward the university, but reality is that horses do change hands. I don't understand where the meat hook imagery comes in. I wonder if it's not a bit of an overreaction to the fact that whenever we pass a horse along -- sale, donation, trade, whatever -- we ALL take the risk that something bad might come.

Is your barn open to every horse you've ever owned? I realize that I'm expanding things a little here...this is just one horse. But for the sake of argument -- what can make anyone sure that the horse you sell today won't have a bad future? And what makes you so much less responsible for that than someone who donated a horse to a riding program?

I believe most horse people genuinely care. I think you can take a person at his word when you've dealt with him before and he did alright by you. 2ndrywhatever may or may not be a horrible mom and sure didn't present herself well. But my god, the self-righteousness sure gets thick around here sometimes.

[King's Ransom]

I do read for content. I never meant to imply that you did not have plenty of money. You have made that very clear. Several times. You have plenty of money, but it's not for him. Because he is not your responsibility. You gave him away. Someone else's care now.

That's fine 2ndyrgal. Just don't ask the rest of us to make you feel good about it and tell you that we think you are a good mom. The word "mom" means a lot to me. I have two human kids and two horsey kids. I know what it is to be a mom. You are not this horse's mom. You are his former owner. You have made it clear that, even though you have lots of money and can easily afford to do anything you please, you are NOT going to take responsibility for this unusable horse.

That's YOUR choice. Just please do not expect the rest of us to applaud.

[YankeeLawyer]

before you all get on the death wagon, read my last post. I have received an email from the BM at the university that since I am unable to provide him with the kind of retirement situation that would be most beneficial for him, that they will make sure he is placed in a retirement home that is suitable. They have several alumni who no longer ride, but have lovely farms and tons of time and tlc. For those of you that offered to send money, I am touched, as I said it is not financial. Kings Ransom, not everything in the world is motivated by money. I can easily afford to have him shipped home, dig a grave, gently place him in it, and erect a monument as big as the one of man'o war at the horse park. Yes I know eventually everything and everyone I have ever loved will die. Some deaths will be as merciful as they can possibly be, some will be long and horrible. If not wishing to watch another horse I knew in his glory days take a needle makes me somehow a monster, then so be it. That someone chooses not to be there at the end does not make them any less caring. I've held the leads and leashes of an awful lot of animals I met only that day, because their owners wanted the last memory to be of a living, breathing love with soft brown eyes. I have too many memories of the other kind, and no doubt more to come to want any I don't have to have. And enough all ready of the hanging on a meat hook bleeding out crap, no one needs that. Enough of the collecting money for euthanasia, if that was the only option, I would certainly not hesitate. There are plenty of horses that truly have no options, save it for them. If you read my last post, you will see that the old boy will get to live the life of Riley, just not with me.

If money is no object then why don't you find him a suitable retirement farm and pay his board. I actually don't care whose responsibility he became after you dumped him on the school because he no longer suited your interests. You say you were interested in getting him back from the school before, but now they have asked you to take him without notice and at this time you don't have the facilities or time to deal with him. If the only problem is lack of facilities and time, there are plenty of nice farms that have retirees as boarders. I feel so sorry for your horse. Really nice to be unwanted around the holidays.

[Appassionato]

I don't mean to interrupt an important pile-on, but does everyone here keep track of every horse they've ever owned? And never trust the people who own the horse after you to find him/her a good home if they need to sell/donate/place him/her?

I don't agree with the OP's attitude toward the university, but reality is that horses do change hands. I don't understand where the meat hook imagery comes in. I wonder if it's not a bit of an overreaction to the fact that whenever we pass a horse along -- sale, donation, trade, whatever -- we ALL take the risk that something bad might come.

Is your barn open to every horse you've ever owned? I realize that I'm expanding things a little here...this is just one horse. But for the sake of argument -- what can make anyone sure that the horse you sell today won't have a bad future? And what makes you so much less responsible for that than someone who donated a horse to a riding program?

I believe most horse people genuinely care. I think you can take a person at his word when you've dealt with him before and he did alright by you. 2ndrywhatever may or may not be a horrible mom and sure didn't present herself well. But my god, the self-righteousness sure gets thick around here sometimes.

I understand what you are saying mazu, but she demanded a call from a fabulous program if he was no longer useable. The same said program is now shit because they called. Now it's their fault.

To answer your question, yes. Both of my own personal horses that I no longer own I asked for a call. The first was donated to a disabled program, they put her down after pasturing her. The second, I regret I have lost touch. If they tracked me down to see if I wanted a very broken down horse now in it's 20s that I sold to them in 1992 or so, yes, I'd put her down. I can't afford two, I can barely afford one. But I would put the horse down over the alternative. Bad as it sounds, rescues are overburdoned enough. I'm not sure I could make the phone call to them. I'd feel like a schmuck.

[Sobriska]

I do hope the college has been honest with you. I hope he will indeed have wonderful place to retire.
I personally did not jump on the put him down bandwagon just because it seemed no one was stepping up to care for him. But because the OP mentioned it was doubtful he would even be pasture sound. IMO, not fair to have him hang around in pain because no one can face putting him down.
No, it is not always pretty. Most of the time, not so bad. I too have been there, more times than I care to count. While it's not so easy for the humans who care to put a quick end to suffering, it's for sure easier for the animal. I will accept that hurt to spare them.
Sunkissedacres: You are a gem. Amazing you offer a space so soon after your own tragedy.
My offer stands if it is needed.
Jingles for the horse.................

[2ndyrgal]

In fact, one of the conversations I'm having w/the university concerning his retirement is funding. I don't know who champion lodge is, or what circumstances surround him. I do know that the university that I donated this and two other horses too, found a very suitable home for one that had not worked out well enough for their program for them to rehab him from a slight injury, and without naming them, will say that it is a very prestigious university, I am familiar with several of the former and current instructors and coaches all of whom are aquainted with this particular horse and none have ever breathed even a hint of ANY of their horses EVER being sold at auction, in fact quite the contrary, I know people that have purchased horses that were not suitable for their program, too hot, intolerant of herds, etc or had a chronic problem that might have been manageable for a private barn that didn't compete a horse as hard. I did not ask ever if I should fund the horse's retirement (dont get me started on the crap "rescue" and "retirement" places) I simply asked if people thought I was being heartess if I didn't take my old horse back, and somehow,as ususal with this place, it turned into a bleeding heart, poor horseey bad owner train wreck with him being slated for the kill pen. That was not ever going to happen, I was just feeling guilty because no more than I would adopt a small child or puppy that needed constant care right now, it would be impossible for the horse to live out his life the way he should if he comes HERE. He will not thrive here, he will not be happy here, he is NOT ready to be put down, but he needs to be somewhere that can give him the ATTENTION he needs, however many times a day he needs it, and right now, I CAN NOT. When I say he needs a home that will be suitable, it means somewhere where he can have a barn buddy that wont pick on him, somewhere that he can be be turned out in a small, flat paddock, or a big roomy stall, not out in a big field with billy bad ass and his little buddy satan on the side of a hill with only a run in. If I had time to take care of 4 horses, I would own 4. I'm down to the 2 I can manage, with the time and responsibility I now have. If financial support is an issue for this horse, that is no problem, they have found a place for him however that apparently also has no financial problems, and enjoys the oldsters and has setups and buddies and lots of time and tlc. so , I am the bad guy, but the horse has a wonderful retirement.

[JoZ]

The people who handed you the leash or the reins were still ensuring that their pet or horse had a dignified end. If YOU have been reading, you've seen that folks have suggested that you have a vet check out the horse and recommend what is appropriate, be it layup or euthanasia. If the latter, you wouldn't have to be there.

Things have tidied up remarkably quickly in the last few posts, from not knowing what the school will do... to being "sure" they'll take care of him... to thinking maybe a rich alum will take him... to having the plans in place for a glorious retirement that will commence in two or three days. I'm suspicious but I'll pray it's all true.

[2ndyrgal]

mazzu, thanks for that post, I actually thought that myself. As to the poster who said I now think a "fabulous" program is now "s**t" I never said that. I said I was distressed at being given what, at the time, seemed a bit like an ultimatum, and I was being forced into a situation that I am not able to deal with as well as I thought I would when I donated the horse several years ago. I think we would all be in trouble if the present owners of all our past horses called and said "but you said if I ever didn't want him to just call you". I bet that every single time we put a horse on a trailer to his new owner, that's exactly what we all say, because we all have a special place for all of them. But as one poster said "she couldn't afford 2, and would just have to euthanize". That is of course assuming that was in the budget for her at that time. I think we all do the best we can, love and care for the ones we have, worry about the rest. I have absolutely no reason not to trust a facility I've dealt with prior, and of course have checked around with this situation and still hear nothing but good words. At the end of the day I have given all the horses I've ever owned a really nice life, good care, and lots of love. This horse will have good care and love, for the remainder of his, he just won't be with me. I am not vain enough to think only I can care for him properly, his aloof charm will win over his new owner in no time.

[Appassionato]

In fact, one of the conversations I'm having w/the university concerning his retirement is funding....

...If financial support is an issue for this horse, that is no problem, they have found a place for him however that apparently also has no financial problems, and enjoys the oldsters and has setups and buddies and lots of time and tlc. so , I am the bad guy, but the horse has a wonderful retirement.

I'm confused? If the rich alum can take him on financially, then funding isn't an issue...or is it an issue?

[jenarby]

When I was in school there was a TB gelding that I fell in love with. I was his primary rider as he had baggage that other riders didn't deal with well. I had him for several classes wherein I was to be the only rider for him during the semester. I was thrown from him several times for different reason (and injured pretty badly) but I still loved that horse. Then one day I was told he wasn't suitable for the program anymore (and yes he had been donated by the former owner as ALL the school horses were) and asked if I'd like to lease him. I can't tell you all how thrilled I was! Except they made the stipulation that I had to pay full board on him (#325/month if I remember correctly) and he would return to the program when I was finished with the lease. Well, I worked for minium wage only 10 hours per week (with a full time student schedule and no car) and couldn't possibly afford it. So I had to turn them down. This horse was put up for sale through the school. He was purchased by the farrier that did most of the school's work. He had also purchased another gelding on the same day and they left together. I watched as the horse I loved so dearly was carted off by someone who could care less about him. Several years later I was told by the BM that my sweet gelding had gone to the killer sale while the second horse that was purchased found a good home with a family. I'll never forget the heartbreak I felt and I still feel sad when I look at old pictures of him.

I recently donated a racehorse I owned for three years to a COTH member. I feel pretty confident that I made a good decision and "my" horse will be well taken care of. I've pestered the snot out of her for pictures and updates and it's only been a month since he left. She's been so kind to tolerate me. Be sure though that if something happened and she needed my help with him, whether it be finding him a new home, taking him in until a new home could be found or (god forbid) having him euthanized for whatever reason, I'd be all over it.
I'm not his owner anymore. But he still holds a very special place in my heart. Even if it was her responsibility to do right by him, I'd be darned sure to be standing beside her to help when the time came.

[Coup De Des]

Don't worry.. I'm confused too.

I hope no one here is giving this riding program a bad name because it appears they have done no wrong and it is all dramatics from the OP, who was clearly looking for an opportunity to self promote and perhaps be told what a wonderful person they are.. Tough time of year for the OP??

I can't help but feel for the horse in all of this. I hope that with whatever happens the horse does not suffer.

[Appassionato]

mazzu, thanks for that post, I actually thought that myself. As to the poster who said I now think a "fabulous" program is now "s**t" I never said that. I said I was distressed at being given what, at the time, seemed a bit like an ultimatum, and I was being forced into a situation that I am not able to deal with as well as I thought I would when I donated the horse several years ago. I think we would all be in trouble if the present owners of all our past horses called and said "but you said if I ever didn't want him to just call you". I bet that every single time we put a horse on a trailer to his new owner, that's exactly what we all say, because we all have a special place for all of them. But as one poster said "she couldn't afford 2, and would just have to euthanize". That is of course assuming that was in the budget for her at that time. I think we all do the best we can, love and care for the ones we have, worry about the rest. I have absolutely no reason not to trust a facility I've dealt with prior, and of course have checked around with this situation and still hear nothing but good words. At the end of the day I have given all the horses I've ever owned a really nice life, good care, and lots of love. This horse will have good care and love, for the remainder of his, he just won't be with me. I am not vain enough to think only I can care for him properly, his aloof charm will win over his new owner in no time.

1st text in bold was by me: Reread my post.

2nd text was also by me: I live on student loans and have kept up my last remaining horse. With chronic founder, let me tell you it's a challenge. I had the horse I sold for about 2 years. I've had this one 16 years. Unfortunately enough for the mare, I would have her put to sleep instead of the alternative. Or maybe fortunately enough? I wouldn't dump her on someone else at least. Reread my post.

3rd text by you: problems were illustrated by you about this program. Reread your own posts.

[2ndyrgal]

I didn't "dump" a horse that no longer suited my needs, I donated a very successful show horse that was capable of competing in the hunter ring in the intercollegiate division. He was in his prime, and they were beyond thrilled to get him, we are talking a very nice 3ft horse here that was absolutely made, never missed a change, never refused. A bit tricky but that was all. Way nicer than college programs ususally get, as was the QH gelding I donated the summer before last. If I thought for one moment that the horse was not going to be properly taken care of I would make arrangements. He is not going to a killer pen, he is not going to the sale, he is not going to be put down. He is not at death's door, unless he does not get the proper care that a lame, older, somewhat fragile horse requires. So I guess I should just go get him, throw him out back to get his ass kicked and shiver even with his new blanket and lots of hay and limp around because I can't confine him and segregate him as he needs,because while I have dosh I have to work bloody hard to get it, so after I get sick of watching him get thumped and limp around on 3 legs every day all winter, then I can just put him down. How bout this.... I let the university send him to someone who is willing to give him the rehab he needs and a nice life after, then when it's truly his time, ends his life in a quiet dignified manner.

[Appassionato]

I didn't "dump" a horse that no longer suited my needs, I donated a very successful show horse that was capable of competing in the hunter ring in the intercollegiate division. He was in his prime, and they were beyond thrilled to get him, we are talking a very nice 3ft horse here that was absolutely made, never missed a change, never refused. A bit tricky but that was all. Way nicer than college programs ususally get, as was the QH gelding I donated the summer before last. If I thought for one moment that the horse was not going to be properly taken care of I would make arrangements. He is not going to a killer pen, he is not going to the sale, he is not going to be put down. He is not at death's door, unless he does not get the proper care that a lame, older, somewhat fragile horse requires. So I guess I should just go get him, throw him out back to get his ass kicked and shiver even with his new blanket and lots of hay and limp around because I can't confine him and segregate him as he needs,because while I have dosh I have to work bloody hard to get it, so after I get sick of watching him get thumped and limp around on 3 legs every day all winter, then I can just put him down. How bout this.... I let the university send him to someone who is willing to give him the rehab he needs and a nice life after, then when it's truly his time, ends his life in a quiet dignified manner.

Your original post was about whether or not you should even retrieve the horse. Whether or not you were a "bad mom" was your case. Your case failed as the tone changed. It's still failing, obviously, with the other posters and their comments. Flame away if you'd like. Doesn't change the facts.

At what point did I scream for you to go kill him or to torture him? Really, get a hold of yourself. I was one of the first to say to get the University to clear it so you could call the vet and find out what was really going on. Only if it looked like there was no good end for the horse including space availability did I suggest euthanasia.

[2ndyrgal]

I have not mentioned the program by name and in fact have said I will continue to support the program. As for self promotion I dont think that ever has any hope of being successful in this forum. Now self flagelation, that is possible on this BB. I never dreamed this would turn into it being presumed that I was some sort of ogre because I decided that taking my old horse back wasn't something I was prepared to do right now. I also don't provide foster care in my home, but I do donate to children's charities. I have 3 empty bedrooms in my home, does that too make me bad? I only have one dog, but he goes to work with me. I can afford to feed more, should I run to the pound and bring them home? I have 4 barn cats that I just spent $500 to spay because the one I couldn't catch had kittens, premie I guess, and I spent every day for 5 days burying them one at a time as they died. Actually, something killed two of them in a rather gruesome manner. This was after a ten hour day at work, taking care of the horses I have and digging a hole big enough for a kitten after dark thru frozen ground. No ladies, heartless wretch that I am, I did not think that a ziplock bag in the dumpster was an appropriate spot for them. My husband is a true softy and has not been around animals long. He said I should bury them behind the barn "where they would have played". So I cried, wrapped them in a soft towel and did just that. Five times, in five days. Then spent 2 days catching and coaxing the four barn cats and having them neutered. SO I WOULDN'T HAVE ANIMALS I COULDNT CARE FOR AND I WOULDN'T HAVE TO BURY ANY MORE TINY BABY KITTENS THAT SOMETHING KILLED OR DIED. Do those of you with a single track mind, understand that it is not that I do not have the ability to support the horse, it is that I do not want to bring him home. I am not the only one on the planet left to be responsible for his care, that a university with a well respected program of course, can not always count on a donor to retire the horse when they are through with him. It is clearly stated in the donor contract that ownership transfers to the university and while they may make the horse available to the former owner at his retirement, they are free to sell the horse if for some reason he does not any longer suit the program. The horse changed ownership, it is no different that selling a show horse with right of first refusal and the show horse you sold, you no longer have a place for. You simply say no. My problem was never that they called me, it was their sense of urgency. It did not seem fair to me at the time, and still doesnt' that they had no room for a horse that they had been riding and competing for the last 6 years and that he had to leave asap. I think perhaps they handled the initial contact with me badly, and since I was their first choice, at the timeof my OP non of the other options were discussed. I'm not sure what about this post triggered all the venom, money I suppose, it usually is.

[Event4Life]

I don't understand why you don't go to the University yourself, go and check out the horses home yourself? In your OP you said you were willing to retire the horse over the summer, have your circumstances really changed that drastically since then? Youve made it clear that money isn't an issue, so whats wrong with sending him to a barn that will do the rehab, keep him in, where you can go and see him yourself? You've contradicted yourself on a few occasions - first you say you do want the horse, then you say you don't. When you gave the horse to the Uni, did they actually sign ownership papers? It doesn't sound to me like the Uni is the problem here, they did as you requested and called you when you could no longer use the horse.

I'm glad the horse has found a seemingly suitable retirement home, I just hope that you check on him every now and then to make sure the home is what they claim. You can't expect the Uni to have any responsibility for him after he goes there. I gave my old QH to a beginner lesson program ran by a close family friend not far from where I live, and though he is no longer my responsibility and I am in College 7 hours away, I still make a point to see him every now and then, not becuase I don't trust his new owner, but just becuase I want to know what happens to him, always. I know this isn't possible with all sales/gives/whatever else, but for me with him it is, and I'll always feel a sense of responsbility to him in my heart.

[Appassionato]

Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Did you ask them what the urgency was? Did you offer to pay them for feed and such until you could get there to see him, to assess the situation and make a decision?

[lark_b]

Yes, fine, you donated a wonderful horse who is way better than anything they would have gotten. GOOD FOR YOU. WE GET IT. That doesn't mean that you are a god mom in and of itself.

I think the essence of why people are upset is because you could not take the time out of your busy schedule to go see the horse for yourself, and did not have your own vet go out and evaluate him with the horse's interests in mind and not anyone else's. Who knows how bad the injury really is? All you've heard is the university's side. You cannot possibly know WHAT the right course is for this horse without seeing him (does he look miserable?) and without someone who YOU are paying seeing him.

Considering that you were pretty incensed about how they "retired" the last horse (the 5 year old) why are you suddenly so confident about this new home? Are you going to see him there and make sure he's getting the care he needs? Why, based on your previous experience, would you assume that everything is as they say it is? What are you going to do if you do go there and he's miserable? Just walk away because he isn't your responsibility anymore, or suck it up and volunteer to pay for and attend his euthanasia?

Your defensiveness is depressing. You've probably stopped reading by now, but if you haven't I surely hope that SOME of this is getting through. Doing the right thing doesn't have to be bringing him home, but it is at least doing some visiting and vet-checking of your own.

[jenarby]

I think the least you can do for this old friend of yours is to check in on him and make sure they really did send him to a good home where he'll be well taken care of. Since you can't take care of him yourself at home...and you won't board him at a place that can rehab him somewhere, why couldn't you just check on him now and then? Will the school let you have contact info on the new home? At least follow up on him maybe?
I know for me, and many others here THAT would bring me piece of mind. Knowing that even if I personally could not retire my old buddy, at least I was making sure that he really did get the home he deserved.

I'd do that in a heartbeat if I was in your shoes. Never again will I trust the word of a university when they tell me the horse was given to or sold to a good home. I still have a bad taste from my experience and that was 10 years ago.

[2ndyrgal]

Yes, the university does actually own the horse. The contact w/ owner at retirement is a courtesy, most people do want to know where there horse is if possible I suppose. Yes, I could pay to have him taken to a boarding facility and rehabbed,or at least as much as possible, as obvious as that seems, it still leaves some herd management issues at the end of the day. During the summer I had one horse here, and one away in training. I had anticipated brining him home and getting him used to living out a bunch over the summer and giving him a chance to adjust. Circumstances changed, and time became the big issue. I brought my horse in training home as because of the time constraints, I wasnt going to have time to show anyway or travel the hour or so to the training barn a couple of times a week. So home he came. While he was away, he learned he could be herd boss. Found that out when a friend's horse came to visit and my formerly good boy went bad. He tolerates the pony, who is subservient to him. If I put them in seperate fields, the big horse jumps the fence, he does not do alone. So any third horse that didn't fit in with the herd would be a problem, not just this horse.
So I was having a bad day, got an urgent email that was worded badly, knew damn well I couldn't do it and thought for one minute that there might be a couple people on here that would say, you can't do it all, for every horse, every time. They really wont send him to the knackers, he will have a fine end to his life, even if it isn't with me. I guess if I get on board with the majority of the posters , since I have 40 acres, when I get old, I'll just run up to the track and take every no hoper i see home with me until there's no grass left and I have to beg for stuff to care for them so they don't starve. Dont get me wrong, I admine folks who run legitimate retirement facilities, I really do. Problem is most of the posters just have a fantasy world going. Not reality. Done now, horse will be fine, really, tired of defending not my morals, or my money, but my feelings. Not one person has acknowledged the fact that I said I just dont want to see this horse age and have to make the call to the vet. End of story.

[King's Ransom]

hit the save button too soon. sorry guys.

[lark_b]

Not one person has acknowledged the fact that I said I just dont want to see this horse age and have to make the call to the vet.

I think that acknowledgement is implicit in many of the posts, all of the ones that suggested that you find him or make sure he ends up in a good retirement home. You don't have to see him, but you can still care for him in the capacity that you can, which is to say by ensuring that he lives a good life. But if you're saying this as a defense for not going to check on him to see how he is really CURRENTLY feeling, then yeah, sorry, I just don't care. Cowgirl up. The horse needs you to do it, because nobody else will. YOU know him. It's what's good for the horse. PUT HIS NEEDS BEFORE YOUR OWN. At LEAST figure out how he is now and where he is going and verify that someone else will take the responsibility for the eventual end of his life. Don't just take the word of the university and a retirement family you don't know!

[2ndyrgal]

And while I did not take time out of my "busy day" to go see him, I did contact my vet, who knows the diagnosing vet so I do have the "rest of the story". His injury is one I am well acquainted with and is not life ending if he has appropriate confinement and rehab care. I was not "incensed" about how they retired my other horse, I simply was a bit disapointed that they had not called me and sold the horse instead, I said he had a wonderful home, the woman foxhunts as well as rides dressage, and she still owns the horse. He lives in Central Ohio now and I have seen him twice in the last 4 yrs. I did not say I was not going to visit his retirement home, or never see or ask about him again. I said I was confident that the university will do as they say they will do, based on their reputation and past history. I am still reading.

[jenarby]

I can understand you not wanting to watch the horse die. My MIL is the same way. I have to be there each time. It's closing for me. We all all different that way and shouldn't be flamed for it. I also used to work for a small animal vet and did many of the same things you did...holding animals while they were put down when they owners just dropped them off.

I just wanted to know if you'd be willing to check in on the horse? Just to make sure he's okay in this new home. Or are you saying you just want to cut ties completely so you don't know what happen to him in the future?
It just seems a little cold if you say it's the latter. Especially since you tried so hard to get them to contact you when he was ready to retire.
Yes, it sucked that they called you last minute with urgency. Yes, it sucks you don't have the facility or time to take him back like you had planned on years ago. Lastly, yes, it sucks that he's been injured to the point he is no longer useful to the program.
Agreeing with you on all counts.
By what you've told us the university has done what they feel IS the responsible thing to do for the horse. Including a call to you...regardless of timing.
So, you, being the caring old owner of the horse should find time now and then to contact the new owners and see if he's really being taken care of.
That's all. Plain and simple. End of point.

[bugsynskeeter]

I don't know if you donated your horse to a program in the state of KY, but if you did you are wrong on one thing. Any horse donated to a state funded college/university becomes STATE property...not university property.

And from my knowledge of dealing with this before, horses could not simply be given away and were most certainly not allowed to be sold privately. The college I went to was not allowed to send an unsound horse to a retirement home or let a student/alumni take him/her home. They HAD to be sent to auction. Just a note...

[411]

I said I was confident that the university will do as they say they will do, based on their reputation and past history. I am still reading.
You're confident that the university will do as they say they will despite the fact they sold the 5 year old horse you donated when they were supposed to contact you first? You are much more forgiving than I am!

If your issue is you don't want to see him age/die, why did you contact them last summer to try to get the "old boy" back? :confused:

[YoungFilly]

Since the OP told us that "My husband and I have donated horses and $$$ in excess of 20K over the last several years" perhaps they could be the first ones to donate to the cause.

I agree with Appasionato. Someone should help this horse, but it sure seems like the world is upside down here. :no:


I'm not reading much more, but can you please bleep yourself? Why don't you put yourself in her shoes? :no:

[Appassionato]

I'm not reading much more, but can you please bleep yourself? Why don't you put yourself in her shoes? :no:

Do what? What's wrong with her post? Every other post it seems the OP mentions wealth, so why not suggest she ante up for the old horse's cause? Especially if she's possibly contributed to other horses there...

[Coup De Des]

oh my heart bleeds for the OP.

*yawn*

Passion, I say we up and outta this joint. It reeks of lame.

[summerhorse]

I guess I'm not sure what the purpose of the original post was? To be declared "not a bad horse mom" even though well it seems you care more for your own feelings of not wanting to be sad than the welfare of an old horse?

You contacted the university just a few months ago and wanted him back. they did their part, they actually contacted you when they couldn't keep him (that is RARE). What would you do with him if you had taken him? Your other horse would STILL have come home Mr. Alpha. Would you have put down the old guy then? or worked it out?

If money is not the issue I don't understand why a separating fence couldn't be run down the field with some hot wire on top (or just a new paddock built) with a run in shed and a turnout for the old guy. Or two fences with an alley between if the other one is so bad.

For the time he needed confinement a much smaller paddock could be built around the shelter. All that would be way cheaper than boarding him.

or why not get him and give him to someone on COTH? If you can afford to ship him anywhere and put him down and build monuments why isn't shipping to a good home somewhere else an option?

Euthanasia was only suggested because it was implied this horse's injury was so severe he wouldn't have a comfortable retirement. I've never heard of a suspensory that severe but i guess it could happen. You'd think they'd have put him down right away.

You need to find out where this horse has gone because while it is possible that they have people willing to take in some crippled old horses and face putting him down when the time comes it is NOT the usual situation. usually they get sold either at auction or to anyone who expresses an interest. The odds are very good that such a horse will end up at a kill auction. This is not something any university advertises. If the horse indeed has a good home then you can rest easy. If it doesn't then you need to put your own I don't want to be sad feelings aside and do what is right for this horse whether that means arranging euthanasia there (YOU don't have to be there but a representative FOR you should) or shipping him to a new home (with references). NOBODY enjoys putting down an animal but if you have animals you have to accept that responsibility. If you don't and are willing to risk this horse's future being on a meat hook or not cared for properly on the back 40 somewhere then I'm sorry but yes, you are a bad horse mom. It is perfectly OK to make arrangments for his care from afar but it is not OK to just say well it will work out and just hope that it does if you have the money to make SURE that it does when you have the power to do so.

What some people call nice farms may turn out to be 40 acres of hell for an old horse. You need to get someone to check it out. First you and then the school used up this horses's good years and now he's no longer good for anything but eating up money neither of you want him but you expect there to be a line of people wanting to take on another old, lame, special needs horse that they have no connection to and spend the extra time and money to give him the retirement he's earned? Then THEY have to be sad and be there when he's put down? There actually ARE suckers out there like this (I'm one but I'm full with useless horses, sorry!) but the numbers are much smaller than the horses needing such people.

[YoungFilly]

Do what? What's wrong with her post? Every other post it seems the OP mentions wealth, so why not suggest she ante up for the old horse's cause? Especially if she's possibly contributed to other horses there...


You know frankley I have been the subject of the "oh, you have sooooooooooooo much money"

PLEASE. Sometimes your heart get ahead of your pocket book. Even if you do have some money, you really, really can't save all the horses.

[Chevalnoir]

I'm glad it sounds like the horse will have a decent retirement.

It sounds like you have an awful lot of stress in your life, I hope things will get easier for you.

I can understand you not being able to face one more thing right now, every one has a breaking point, and if you are at yours - there's nothing you can do about it. Best wishes to you and yours in what sound like difficult times for you.

[FatDinah]

YF, people are putting ourselves in her shoes.

And they are saying that if they had a horse they say they loved so much and that had given so much to them, then they'd make sure that he was cared for until the day he died, whether that means arranging for an immediate death or checking and rechecking that he is in a suitable home or even, gasp, figuring out a way to take care of him herself. The OP is saying she can't/won't take care of him and will trust to the good intentions of a university and an alumni.

And I, for one, would not do that if I WERE in her shoes. I would take care of this horse, whatever it took and for however many years.

[Appassionato]

You know frankley I have been the subject of the "oh, you have sooooooooooooo much money"

PLEASE. Sometimes your heart get ahead of your pocket book. Even if you do have some money, you really, really can't save all the horses.

Are you sure you aren't barking up the wrong tree? Especially on the financial issues? you might ought to check, and especially not get your own head caught somewhere where it lacks oxygen.

[Coup De Des]

they can't help but mention money.

I think people who have come into money are much more tacky than those who have been raised with money. haha.

tacky tacky tacky tacky.

[MoonBallad]

Maybe I'm just too cynical but I have strong doubts that the horse has a wonderful retirement home to go to where he's going to "live the life of Reilly". It just seems to much of a coincidence that once people began to critisize the OP for not taking the responsibility of doing the right thing for this horse that only a year ago she says she wanted to buy back - BEFORE he was injured - that this new "retirement home" suddenly appears. The facts keep changing too. First he was going off to live with a "rich" alummni and then a few posts later the OP is discussing "funding" his retirement. Sounds VERY fishy to me, sorry.

All I can add to this very sad and depressing story is this:
Last year you wanted him back. This year he's injured so you say you can't keep him at your home - fair enough. BUT you keep on telling us over and over and over how financially well off you are so put your money where your mouth is and put him in a nice retirement farm as other people have suggested.

Since you said his injuries are not life threatening you no longer have to worry about watching him die BUT you still should be worried about his future. As for the school telling you that none of their horses have ever gone to auction; maybe their telling you the truth maybe not. Let's face it it sure wouldn't be good for them if word got around that the horses were sent off to be slaughtered after the school was done with them now would it? Who would want to donate horses to them in the future or donate to their program for that matter?

I have gone through exactly that just recently. A "very prestigious" school program that I had been part of at one time had a wonderful TB gelding that could no longer be used in their program. Everyone loved this guy and were concerned about what was going to happen to him. The people at the school looked everyone right in the eye and told them that he was going back to his original trainer for awhile and then would be going to a more suitable situation.

Lies! All lies. Nothing could have been further from the truth. A close friend of mine works there and told me he was actually being picked up to go to New Holland the very next day! I confronted the head of the program and he confirmed that this was actually the truth. Oh he had all kinds of reasons why he was "forced" to do this and kept telling me how bad he feels everytime a horse gets loaded on the van to head to the meat auction but he was STILL doing it. This was a horse I had ridden who took great care of me and gave me SO much confidence I could never let that happen to him. It took me less than two seconds to make a decision; I bought the horse on the spot and he's happy and safe in my barn now.

The LAST thing I needed was another horse. It was VERY inconvienent timing and he does have physical issues that made it impossible to keep him the way my other horses are kept. So we had to make some changes. Was it a pain in the ass? Yes. Was it worth it? ABSOLUTELY! He will have a home with me for the rest of his days no matter how much "extra" care he needs. This was a horse I had ridden who took great care of me and gave me SO much confidence I could never let that happen to him. By the way I work SO many hours every week at my job its virtually inhuman - but these guys are important enough to me that I MAKE the time for them. So long work hours are a very poor excuse on this one.

This gelding was NOT my horse either. But I knew him and loved him and was very grateful for everything he had given to me in the past. But the horse horse you are talking about here WAS your horse and you should do the same for him. You say you love him to much to watch him die. So why is it you don't love him enough to take responsibility for his future???????
Put him on a nice retirement farm, send a check every month so he is safe and comfortable and stop trying to justify washing your hands of your "old friend".


PS - I see you live near Lexington, KY. If you need a retirement farm at a reasonable cost PM me. All of my horses are KY breds and I have many friends in the racing industry there who would be able to suggest a good one for you.

[YoungFilly]

you guys, please. just stop the trainwreck. This was a very heartfelt post by the op. She WILL do the right thing, trust me!

[glitterless]

I tried, but I'm sorry, I just don't have any sympathy for you. When you have an animal, IMO, you are making the choice to be there until the end. And no, the end usually isn't pretty. We know that, and I bet most of us here have been with at least one animal when they've left us.

I love my horse more than anything. I know that one day I'll have to make a choice.. or maybe he'll make it for me. But there is no doubt in my mind that if I can, I will be there for him. I understand that you don't own this horse any more, but then why did you want him when he was sound, to "retire" if you don't want him now, when he's not sound? Maybe you wanted a few more useful years out of him. And if his turnout situation at your place is such a big issue, what were you going to do with him if he was returned to you before the injury?

If you had come here, said that you gave a horse away years ago, haven't heard anything, and out of the blue got a call from his owners that they couldn't keep him any more, then by all means, come on here and vent. Unfortunately I don't see it that way.

Yes, death is really, really awful. None of us want to witness it and see our friends in the end, but it's part of life! Since June, I've lost my grandmother, my grandfather, a cow, a heifer, and several cats. Just after my grandfather's funeral, I returned home to find 2 sick cats. We took them to the vet. It turns out that they had panleukopenia, which is a highly contagious, devastating virus. One day we buried two cats. One day we buried 3 cats. I really don't want to know what's coming next. But, I love these people and animals in my life. I feel that it's my duty to be with them when they go and to let them know how much I love them. I couldn't imagine turning my back to them and selfishly hoping that they went to a good home.

I see this as an opportunity for you, a person with money, to do what is right for an old friend. If you really don't care about him, why are you even on here? And if you do, well why can't you help him out?

[mazu]

OP certainly isn't representing herself that well. I'll give you that. I'm not sure how well I'd respond to people telling me I was a bad horseperson, either, though...

I guess I just see this all as an emotional reaction, not her changing her story or covering up the truth or anything. It has to be a tough thing to hear that a favorite old horse of you has gone lame and needs to be retired. Wouldn't you be a bit put off if you got that call or email or whatever? Maybe blame the current owner? I know I might, especially if it were worded poorly.

You know, you're all attacking her for something that hasn't happened yet. You have no way of knowing whether the school is going to do right by the horse and place him in a nice home--and that IS a possibility--or try to make him disappear (yes, that's a possibility too, I know). If OP cannot take the horse herself, she certainly CAN get involved in the process of re-homing him, visiting the retirement farm, etc. If the school has nothing to hide, they'll let her. If something smells fishy, she can take them up on the offer to take him back, and then find her own arragements for him. If she simply cannot do that, I'm sure some kind COTH person would jump in to help (in between telling her what a horrible person she is, of course. bad mom!).

The fact that the school DID let OP know before they did anything says to me that they're probably interested in the horse's well-being and willing to be transparent about the process here. There are certainly things the OP can do to minimize the risk, if she can't take the horse back herself.

[MoonBallad]

You know frankley I have been the subject of the "oh, you have sooooooooooooo much money"

PLEASE. Sometimes your heart get ahead of your pocket book. Even if you do have some money, you really, really can't save all the horses.

But dear this isn't "all the horses" being discussed here - this was HER horse.

[Coup De Des]

YoungFilly is to OP what Robin is to Batman :P

[goeslikestink]

op-- i resuce horses that have been abused or neglected i havent room for anymore but i would make room if one was in need -- i have 2 acres and 10 stables if one was needy then i would double up old raspberry and bonnie as in the ones that get along to make room for a needyhorse

i have no money as out of work, but my horse are well cared for and fed and looked after--

the horse to you at his peak when you had him was ashow horse no doubt won you cclasses and then you donated him to a uni with request that get in contact with you -- which they did they are legally bond in some cases to get in touch with the previuos onwner as you have him there on a lease
and if the horse needs to be pts need your permission maybe

so give it -- you dont have to be there and you might have the bill tho

the point is you say you donated other horses to what gets me
is that you donate i think when a horse has outlived it usefulness or doesnt win things anymore so you get rid of it pas the buck ie the horse

havent got a prolem with going to uni i have a problem with selfishness

horses are lving creatures they give with out question and do as the human hand asks -- and move and get placed and shoved from pillar to post

when not usable they dumped --- or sent to slaughter

you know i could never have that on my mind i would have him in ashot
if in usa -- and i would give him time out as a horse if he needed to be pts
i would give him a few days in absolute ful time care and attention and make sure he felt wanted and loved so he went with dignity---



compassion is a small price to pay when one horse has worked thorughout his life giving you and the uni what you wanted --

its is aboutmoney as it cost money to pts to rehab to keep

but its money well spent on a good horse that gave you unconditional love -- and trust


shame on you for not doing whats right -- if you dont want to be there then all you have to do -- IS PICK UP THE PHONE AND ASKED THE UNI TO PTS
AND ASK FOR A RECEIPT TO MAKESURE THAT IT WAS DONE


BE FAIR ON AN OLD HORSE THAT GAVE YOU WHAT YOU WANTED IN THE SHOWING WORLD --GIVE HIM PIECE BACK

[ESG]

It is not that I do not want him back because he is "unusable". I sent them a wonderful horse that I had shown successfully that was 14 yrs old and had never taken a lame step. I did not expect to get him back in anywhere near that condition, I did expect to get him back. What I did not expect was a call that was "your horse now has needs we cant meet and is of no use to us, please come and get him." They have not let me know what his fate will be if I do not. He is not a horse that I can turn out with mine, or keep as I do my current horses. This does NOT mean I do not care what happens to him, of course I do. So I should bring him home, watch him hobble around on 3 legs until I can't stand it and put him down.And rip my heart out again. So those of you who say "shame on me" don't think that the university that has had him, riding and competing on him the last SIX years has any responsibility because, well, their programs depend on donations and they just don't have much to work with and well, if they use the horses completely up then dump them, well, why are we surprised? Really. I did NOT donate some piece of crap that wasn't winning for me, I donated a wonderful horse, that was extremely competitive because I think it is a wonderful program and they deserve NICE horses, not just second hand stuff. I donated my horse, and the other two, because I had taken up foxhunting and none of the horses were suitable for that. I kept in touch, visited a couple times a year and as he was aging, contacted them over the summer with hints that the old boy might be ready to come home. They assured me he was still going strong and they were going to keep him forever. Til he couldn't be ridden. Til he would no longer "suit". So then I get, you can come as early as TODAY, so he won't be a bother for us anymore. My husband and I have donated horses and $$$ in excess of 20K over the last several years and we don't have any affiliation with the program at all. The university can certainly afford to provide a horse that COST THEM NOTHING with either a suitable retirement in a home that can meet the needs of an old horse with special needs going into winter, or provide him with a dignified end. I've been on the end of enough lead ropes on the last day, thank you very much, and I've visited vibrant race horses I took care of years ago, only to be saddened seeing them headbobbing lame, so someone could get that last cheap stud fee. So I am sorry, but to bring home a horse so I can be the one to put him down, and watch him get winched into the dead horse guys truck, isn't really what I want my last memory of him to be. For any of you that would like that responsibility, pm me and I will be glad to put you in contact with the appropriate person.

I donated a horse several years ago to an intercollegiate program. Since he is at least 20, last summer I approached them about buying him back so he could be retired. They were convinced he had several good years left, so they declined. I made them promise to contact me when he was ready to retire. So today they email me and call me, tell me he has a career ending injury, with a poor prognosis that will certainly prevent him from competing even at a low level, and probably prohibit even light riding. He may not even be "pasture sound". So the email says, since they can't use him, I can come and get him TODAY. I don't have the time to properly rehab him or the facility to contain him during rehab time. So if I say no, does that make me the bad mom??

Um, is it just me, or are these two statements totally contradictory? :confused:

First, you offer to buy the horse back, last summer. Presumably, your situation has not changed since you wanted to be the one to retire him. I'm just curious as to why it was feasible then, but not now? Or did you intend his "retirement" to include being convenient to keep, and now that he's going to require some rehab, it's not possible? :eek:

Sorry, but I agree with those who say that the school isn't the one at fault here. :no:

[PiedPiper]

Let the conspiracy theories run rampant and the ganging up begin. :rolleyes:

It is amazing how much people will talk the talk but how few will walk it. For those that are SO outraged at what you are SPECULATING will happen, antey up and and PM the OP to go get the horse.

If it is about the horse and others are falling short on their responsibility than you step up and be the good one. Maybe you can work something out to rehab the horse or you can be the one to hold the lead.

I do understand the sentiment, good or bad, for those that dont want to be there at the end. So YOU do it.

[ESG]

PiedPiper, it's not about being able to handle "the end" - it's about responsibility. The OP, by her own admission, clearly has enough money to see this horse through a retirement - she just can't be bothered. It's easier/more convenient/cheaper for her to believe the fiction of a wonderful retirement home for him, supposedly funded by some other wealthy alumni.

Yeah - and I've got a bridge for sale. :p

[Claddagh]

This whole situation is just so sad...:cry:

Back to the “it’s not about the money” issue – well, what about the money that this horse put in your pocket when you donated him to the university? :eek: Read – nice tax break based on the value (determined by you) of the donation (the horse). :o Why can’t you now give some of this money back to your horse, when he is in need of help, by paying his board at a rehab facility where his medical and physical needs could be met (since you say that you cannot provide for him at home)? Then later, if you still cannot bring him home, board him at a good retirement farm where he will get the care that he so deserves after serving you as a show horse for so many years. :yes: And yes, I agree that the university should have some responsibility here but let’s face it; the university is not a human being with feelings and moral obligations. You, as the owner (or past owner as you will, before the non-entity took ownership) are human. And as such you need to step up and come to the aid of your former buddy. :yes: Don’t just walk away from him now – that’s just not the right thing to do. :(

I know that for myself, if I were in the OP’s position, I would bend over backwards to insure that my horse would never be in any danger of something “bad” happening to him. If I had to starve in order to be able to afford to insure his safety and care, then so be it. :yes: And if all else failed you can be sure that I would be the one making arrangements and decisions regarding his future care, not leaving it up to some non-human entity like a profit making university to make these decisions (they want and need to cut their losses – nothing more and nothing less – that’s the bottom line).

You need to step up to the plate and be the spokesperson for this horse who cannot speak up for, or protect, himself. :cry:

[EqTrainer]

You know frankley I have been the subject of the "oh, you have sooooooooooooo much money"

PLEASE. Sometimes your heart get ahead of your pocket book. Even if you do have some money, you really, really can't save all the horses.

YF, it is true. You can't save all the horses.

But you can save one.

And if everyone saved one, none of them would go to slaughter. Actually, if everyone just pitched in on saving one, none of them would go.

You have to start somewhere.

I am a little surprised that the OP doesn't see this as the opportunity of a lifetime, to ensure her old friend an appropriate retirement or euthanasia. She is actually the lucky one, to know where he is and to be able to provide that. I hope she does. If she does not, I hope it haunts her for the rest of her life. Because I can tell you, IT'S NOT THAT EFFING HARD TO DO THE RIGHT THING. It's just not. It's like when you went and found Odette and imported her.. you did one step at a time and eventually she got here and then she was part of your life. It's like having kids. You are pregnant forever <LOL> then OMG! You're up all night! And then you get used to it and time goes on and you cannot imagine your life without them.

One thing that I would like to point out is that those who just do what they need to do, do not suffer the mental angst that the OP *was* suffering, because they make a good decision and move on. It's only when you make a decision that you should question that you are tore up about it, IMO. It should be a clue.

Regarding money, if I have to chose between dying rich and dying poor knowing I helped my friends, I will choose the latter. What else is money for? I thought about this thread this morning when I went out and threw Lou Lou her breakfast hay - I could have said "Sorry babe, I would really like a Gucci handbag for Christmas this year - it's about the same price as shipping you and caring for you for a year". And then I would have had a handbag and no Lou Lou. In a matter of days I would have forgotten the pleasure of getting a new toy. I know, I have a lot of handbags from my previous years ;) and NONE of them have ever given me the pleasure I and so many other people get from taking care of Lou Lou and seeing her recover.

Anyway, I DO hope the OP ensures this horse the retirement he deserves, whether it's with her, at a retirement home or euthanasia, she will not be sorry or feel she has wasted her money. In fact, it would be Merry Christmas to HER and HIM. Best wishes to them both.

[Appassionato]

you guys, please. just stop the trainwreck. This was a very heartfelt post by the op. She WILL do the right thing, trust me!


It was heartfelt? Please show me where. Was it the damned incovenient timing issue, the fact he's damaged goods now...

I wasn't in a trainwreck. I pointed out inconsistencies, and asked a very genuine question that hasn't been answered.

Trust you? You've not been following along, have you? And not just in this thread.

[Appassionato]

Let the conspiracy theories run rampant and the ganging up begin. :rolleyes:

It is amazing how much people will talk the talk but how few will walk it. For those that are SO outraged at what you are SPECULATING will happen, antey up and and PM the OP to go get the horse.

If it is about the horse and others are falling short on their responsibility than you step up and be the good one. Maybe you can work something out to rehab the horse or you can be the one to hold the lead.

I do understand the sentiment, good or bad, for those that dont want to be there at the end. So YOU do it.

Are you so sure we are sitting in a cushy house with fabulous and sound horses? I've partied with founder for over a year now. She can cry me a handful as far as "inconvenience". So, I did ante up for mine. And I'm not rich. as EqTrainer mentioned, it would be such a peace of mind for me if it were my own horse being returned to me.

If I were nearby, I'd hold the lead or administer the shot. But I'm not. If she'd like to pay my way (gas money, etc.) I'll be there.

[3fatponies]

So I am sorry, but to bring home a horse so I can be the one to put him down, and watch him get winched into the dead horse guys truck, isn't really what I want my last memory of him to be. For any of you that would like that responsibility, pm me and I will be glad to put you in contact with the appropriate person.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why you simply cannot tell the school that you want him pts, and arrange it/pay for it with their vet. Then you don't have to see anything upsetting, and he is not at risk. Is it really worth not stepping up so you can keep your shiny memories of him? Do you think it's fair to him?

I'm not trying to be unkind, but I really don't understand why you can't manage an option like I mentioned above--one that does the right thing without your on-site participation. Have you had contact with the school since that first message? This sort of situation requires more than messages--it requires a dialogue in which you arrange what is best for the horse, not what is best for you or the school, so it may be worth forcing the issue so that they WILL talk to you. Good luck!

[Estelle]

I donated a horse several years ago to an intercollegiate program. Since he is at least 20, last summer I approached them about buying him back so he could be retired. They were convinced he had several good years left, so they declined. I made them promise to contact me when he was ready to retire. So today they email me and call me, tell me he has a career ending injury, with a poor prognosis that will certainly prevent him from competing even at a low level, and probably prohibit even light riding. He may not even be "pasture sound". So the email says, since they can't use him, I can come and get him TODAY. I don't have the time to properly rehab him or the facility to contain him during rehab time. So if I say no, does that make me the bad mom??

Maybe you need to reread your first post....then read your other posts and find the dozens of contridictions. And my answer to your original question is YES, if you dont like the answers, dont ask the question.

[Kimberlee]

OK - I haven't had time to read page 7 & 8, but...

My aunt's retired tb is living at my mom's (now the only horse on 5 acres). I can't even imagine sending him somewhere else to live out his days. Even if he requires special feed (beet pulp mash w/carrots warmed plus bute) to keep him somewhat fat. And when his old bow gets inflamed and he is hobbling around getting a sweat and standing wrap to help him be comfortable. There is no way this horse will ever be sound, and hobbles around the pature. But he is happy at times, and that is enough for my mom. He is also a thin skinned TB, and therefore gets blanketed and hooded if it gets cold enough. It is part of taking care of a horse. You MAKE time to take care of them. You creat them a smaller turn-out with run-in to the barn, so that he is not out with your current horses. You go out after dark and make sure he is warm enough under his blanket. You take the time to study different feeds, and ask questions so that he is getting the nutrition he needs.

I have sold horses and not kept track of them, but a donation is completly different. They do not have any money (per say) invested in the horse. After working at a camp, I don't think I would donate a horse w/out expecting the worse to happen, and would want to have the horse back for retirement. Whether that entailed some rehab before the horse was pasture sound or not.

I was sympathetic to your plight to some degree, until you said you were turning it over to the university and you didn't want to have anything to do with getting the horse down or being there for him. I would trust a home you found for him before I would trust a complete stranger the Univeristy "trusts". They could just be giving him to someone else with a horse "hoarding" issue.

My $.02 worth

[vineyridge]

I'm sure this has already been suggested, but if there is a vet school connected with the riding program, your horse can be sent over there and euthanized, then serve as a teaching tool for up and coming vets. Its a thought, anyway.

Second possibility would be for the OP to talk to the riding program director about this horse. If there is a pattern of donations, I doubt that the school won't be willing to discuss options. If the old man is as badly injured as it seems and as poorly equipped to live a life of winter turnout (if a retirement home can be found) as indicated, then why not just send the program the cost of euthanization and burial as a donation limited to that use. It'll be tax deductible, OP won't have to be there for the needle, horse won't have to be transported lame, and the school will a) have to forego any money they might have made by selling to slaughter, and b) suffer the direct emotional consequences of responsible horse ownership.

[BelladonnaLily]

IF the school had sent him back to you last year, as you requested, what would you have done with him when the time came for him to be put down (whether due to old age or an injury)? I'd really like that question answered. :yes:

[Appassionato]

IF the school had sent him back to you last year, as you requested, what would you have done with him when the time came for him to be put down (whether due to old age or an injury)? I'd really like that question answered. :yes:

I don't think it will be answered. I can only suppose that since my question of "did you ask if you could pay for feed until this weekend" went unasnwered, it's because hands have been washed of him. That rich alum story I fear is just a nice cover-up.

Let the flaming begin. I can take it.

[3fatponies]

I don't think it will be answered. I can only suppose that since my question of "did you ask if you could pay for feed until this weekend" went unasnwered, it's because hands have been washed of him. That rich alum story I fear is just a nice cover-up.

Let the flaming begin. I can take it.

No flames from me. :D

[goeslikestink]

there was a horse who used to dance
on the show room floor
with dainty toes and classy clothes
he won the prizes ever more
then one day his duty done
his owner turn his back on fun

of he went alone and in shock
as he mounted that old truck
to a place he didnt know
people came people go
he did his best
for all tests

hes old frail an forlorn
he knows it comming in the dawn
where he goes he dont know
he has freinds we hear him cry
god bless you mate what ever ends
you will always have someone to be your freind

good luck horse xx jingles you be safe xxand at peicexx

[2ndyrgal]

Goeslikestink, your poem was lovely and heartfelt. I spoke with the director of the program today on the phone. I was assured that there are several former students that are willing to take the old horse and give him the attention he deserves in his last years, the program will decide which home best suits HIS needs, they agreed that the living situation at MY farm is NOT the best one for him right now. I advised them to furnish the adopting family with all of my contact information, should any excessive medical treatment or euthanasia be necessary at any time, I would certainly be willing to take care of that. They do not EVER, EVER, EVER, discard any of their horses to an uncertain future or take them to a sale.

[Kimberlee]

If you had gotten him back this summer, and he hurt himself... what would you be doing now?

[BeastieSlave]

That sounds good. Good luck to you both!

[Slewdledo]

IT'S NOT THAT EFFING HARD TO DO THE RIGHT THING. It's just not.

One thing that I would like to point out is that those who just do what they need to do, do not suffer the mental angst that the OP *was* suffering, because they make a good decision and move on. It's only when you make a decision that you should question that you are tore up about it, IMO. It should be a clue.

Regarding money, if I have to chose between dying rich and dying poor knowing I helped my friends, I will choose the latter. What else is money for? I thought about this thread this morning when I went out and threw Lou Lou her breakfast hay - I could have said "Sorry babe, I would really like a Gucci handbag for Christmas this year - it's about the same price as shipping you and caring for you for a year". And then I would have had a handbag and no Lou Lou. In a matter of days I would have forgotten the pleasure of getting a new toy. I know, I have a lot of handbags from my previous years ;) and NONE of them have ever given me the pleasure I and so many other people get from taking care of Lou Lou and seeing her recover.




*applauds* Thank you so very much for that post. Not only in the context of this thread but that just made me smile after having so many bad things happen recently in my life. Thank you.

[BelladonnaLily]

EqTrainer, I hear ya! My Miss Scarlett is across the farm happy and content right now and I wouldn't have it any other way. She IS an extra mouth and I could have an extra "usable" pony, that I so desperately need right now having 3 daughters riding, but I can't because Scarlett is taking up that space. She is 25 and does nothing at this point but eat, sleep and occassionally pace. Thats okay with me. The sad day will come soon enough that I'll have to say goodbye...I won't rush it just because I don't have the space...or I want the extra money that it takes to care for her.

[JumperFun]

Does anyone else get the feeling that this "retirement home that is suitable" might be a polite way to say something bad? I think so, based on the replies. And I think the original poster might, also, given that she is still worked up about this.
It sounds just like when parents tell a child that their dog "went to live on a farm"...

[2ndyrgal]

Please read my last post. My old horse will be lovingly cared for the rest of his days. Get off the train, the trip is over. A great many of you acted as if the horse was going directly to the killers if I didn't take him. That was never going to happen. Yes, I am a selfish evil witch and there is a special place in everlasting Hell for me. I can never be saved unless I join the church of Parrelli and Scientology at the same time while hopping on one foot with my eyes closed waving one of those orange sticks. For those of you that would never turn any person or animal away even if you went cold and hungry I commend you. To the many fine and reputable rescue organizations out there, God Bless you. There are many safeguards now in place to assure that doesn't happen,Ever. For those of you that understood my dillema, thank you. to those of you who didn't, there are choices, which from the outside, seem cut and dried. They seldom ever are. When I actually spoke with the director of the program, she assured me that ALL of their horses are appropriately placed when they are done competing. It seems that they keep extensive files on the horses, throughout their careers, and many students, coaches and barn workers become quite attached to certain horses, and are able to retire them to their farms. It seems there are no less than 20 letters of request in the old guy's file, 3 of which they are evaluating to see who can truly provide the BEST home for him now. After having described my situation to the director, while I cried because I still feel bad, especially after going thru all these posts, she agreed that the best thing for him was NOT my place, at least not right now. So I feel good that he will be loved and safe and cared for. So having made sure, absolutely sure, that this will happen, I have done what you all asked, which is to make certain of his future. When they decide where he is going, they wil let me know who has him and where he is. So I can sleep. Well.

[Jsalem]

Sounds like a good solution. I hope you'll keep up with him. I lost track of a good old horse of mine years ago and I'll never forgive myself.

BTW, OP, I've gotta hand it to you. You took quite a beating here. I think you stayed pretty calm throughout. The posters here definitely have their hearts in the right place- but they can be tough!

[goeslikestink]

2ndyrgal it was meant to be heartfelt i love horses feel horses have a unique talent thats been proven many times i can and do talk horse and fogi taught me that one to the horse has alangage of his own but some humans hear it others do not- i hear what is said by the horse as i am dedicated to the horse what type breed or size dont matter age dont matter i have 10 and 14 cats 3 dogs
they all rescued have had a sheep ducks and chickens in the past it dont matter what it is to be honest - but horses i have worked with been with since 7
i do my bit and i do what i can for the horse i have seen things terriable things wouldnt want to say maybe you was hurt confused as what to do i dunno
i was only voicing becuase of the way it was written and how i read it
but as long as the horse has the right treatment as in respect the thats fine by me you done the right thing and had a re think why i tell you why you gave it the big no no in begining but guilt and compassion set in and above all your own memories -- prizes what hes won what he was then and what he is now you realised that you do love him--- i am proud of you

[jetsmom]

2ndyrgal-
Champion Lodge was a fairly successful racehorse that when his owner/trainer retired him, they donated him to a college in CA. Fairly safe, right? Since slaughter is banned there and they don't sell the horses to auction when they are done with them. Instead they gave him to an alumni. Sound familiar?
He was found on a feedlot in CO scheduled to go to slaughter, sick, and horribly skinny.
One of our COTHers was kind enough to rescue him and give him a good home. CL's prior owner/trainer was horrified to learn of his "almost" slaughter fate, and had truly believed they were doing right by him.

So I would definitely keep in VERY close contact with his new "alumni " owner, and physically check on him.

I am curious about your last post where you told them that if he ever needs something or to be euthed, you want them to contact you. You don't want the responsibility for him now, but that will change? Or is that like a bad first date where the guy says "I'll call you".

[summerhorse]

Let the conspiracy theories run rampant and the ganging up begin. :rolleyes:

It is amazing how much people will talk the talk but how few will walk it. For those that are SO outraged at what you are SPECULATING will happen, antey up and and PM the OP to go get the horse.

If it is about the horse and others are falling short on their responsibility than you step up and be the good one. Maybe you can work something out to rehab the horse or you can be the one to hold the lead.

I do understand the sentiment, good or bad, for those that dont want to be there at the end. So YOU do it.


I think any number of people would take this horse if the OP was serious about actually shipping the horse to them (it's not about the money remember?) And i suspect that many of them would have far less money then the OP! I can't take another crippled horse as I am now crippled from shoulder surgery myself (one week out!) esp. one that needs stall rest as i have no stalls, only roofs in paddocks/lots.

As for euthanasia NOBODY wants to put an animal down but I have taken dying animals from people who "couldn't stand to be there" (but had no problem watching the animal suffer oddly enough) and paid to have them put down myself. Most are buried out back.

I would certainly go to the university and make sure that the right horse WAS put down properly for her (except I suspect the horse is nowhere within reach of me as there are no horse programs in reach of me!). I bet other people would too.

The OP didn't seem to want that either. Nor did she offer to ship the horse to someone else. Easy solutions that would cost money.

I do hope that the university program IS a good one and is honest about where the horses go and will actually find a good home for him. I would personally want to SEE it and be assured that those people signed a legal contract of LEASE so they were not able to sell the horse ever. Hopefully the horse will be fine now.

[summerhorse]

2ndyrgal-
Champion Lodge was a fairly successful racehorse that when his owner/trainer retired him, they donated him to a college in CA. Fairly safe, right? Since slaughter is banned there and they don't sell the horses to auction when they are done with them. Instead they gave him to an alumni. Sound familiar?
He was found on a feedlot in CO scheduled to go to slaughter, sick, and horribly skinny.
One of our COTHers was kind enough to rescue him and give him a good home. CL's prior owner/trainer was horrified to learn of his "almost" slaughter fate, and had truly believed they were doing right by him.

So I would definitely keep in VERY close contact with his new "alumni " owner, and physically check on him.

I am curious about your last post where you told them that if he ever needs something or to be euthed, you want them to contact you. You don't want the responsibility for him now, but that will change? Or is that like a bad first date where the guy says "I'll call you".

Don't forget the alumnus contacted the school and told them he or she couldn't care for the horse anymore and could they take him back (because you know they promised to keep him FOREVER) but they refused. So off to the sale he went.

[Picturesque]

2ndrygal you have a pm

[2ndyrgal]

financial assistance to the person that will ultimately give a retirement home to my old horse. Since they are kind and generous enough to provide him with care for the remainder of his life, should he require any expensive "maintenance" drugs or treatment, then they need only contact me. Should they be unable to cover the costs of his final expenses, I will pay those as well when necessary. I will be notified should anything change in his care, so that I can take steps to assure that he does not meet a bad end.

[2ndyrgal]

To all of the folks here who sent me PM's, thank you. I can tell you that you all, each of you (and there were quite a few) said exactly the same thing.

[JAGold]

There are so many double standards on this thread that it's like a math class :rolleyes:

Some of you seem to be taking the position that every horse owner is responsible for every horse she ever owns from the moment she first takes ownership until the moment the horse dies. While I think that's a beautiful committment to make for those who choose to do so, I simply do not think it is a fundamental principle of horse ownership. I know that to some of you, that makes me a bad person or unfit owner. So be it. I just don't think it is a realistic expectation. I think that horse owners are responsible for doing the best they can to keep their horses happy and healthy while they own them, and for providing the health care they need to be comfortable or a dignified alternative when that isn't feasible. And I think that owners are responsible for transfering ownership to someone they believe will behave in a similar fashion. And that is where the responsibility ends.

I just don't think that each of us is responsible for becoming animal control for all future owners of horses we sell. I know that I wouldn't buy a horse from someone who indicates she intends to "check up on me" in the future. But checking up on the future owner, and the owner after that, is the logical extension of this idea that owners are responsible for the horse "for life." Horses aren't people; I don't think that the committment we make to them is the same as, for example, the lifetime committment to one's children.

I also don't think that donating a horse to a college or other program changes the former owner's responsibility to the horse once the program assumes ownership. Would those of you who think the OP is a "bad mom" for not retiring the horse if she's sold the horse? What if someone bought the horse for $$, showed him for a few years, and then he went lame? Would you think it was the OP's responsibility to retire the horse in that situation? If not, what makes things different because the horse was donated to a college? I don't think that asking for "first right of refusal" is the same thing as being obligated to take it...

And then there's the implied judgements of the unnamed college program. Why all the warnings and innuendos to personally witness what happens to the horse? Again, would those of you who think the OP needs to "see with her own eyes" apply the same standard if the horse had been sold to a private home? (Because if so, again, you'd have to keep track of the horse with every new owner, checking up even if you weren't welcome, and inserting your will at some point if the new owners disagreed with you...) Why do you imply that a college program is somehow less trustworthy than an individual owner? I'd say that aside from being horselovers, those affiliated with college teams have more incentive to make sure they do the right things -- they need to maintain the reputations of their programs, and often rely on donations for horses, so they need to be sure that owners are comfortable donating horses in the future. I was very involved with my school's team when I was in college. We didn't have unlimited resources, but we certainly tried to do the very best we could by every one of our horses. And when we didn't have the resources to make things right, we at least made them comfortable and caring and dignified. Why do so many of you seem to believe that the school in question here would do any less?

Perhaps those of you who have been so quick to judge the OP or the school never sell your horses. You keep every horse you own for it's whole life, retire it in luxury when it can't work any more, and have it euthanized when the time comes. Or, if you do sell a horse, you do so with a contract that requires the owner to sell the horse back to you. And you do background checks to make sure the new owner is up to snuff, and then random spot checks in the future... That's your choice, but I don't think any less of the OP for taking good care of her horse while she owned him, donating him to a program she believed in him when he wasn't suitable for her job any more, and then being sad or confused when she heard about his injury. Making a lifelong committment to your horses is great, but it's a personal decision and I sure don't think it gives you the right to judge everyone else (you know, most of the horse world...) who do otherwise. --Jess

[halla]

The only reason I, personally, cautioned to really check into where the horse is retired to is that I know of a school where there are at least rumors (which admittedly may or may not be true) that what supposedly happened to the horses is not what did happen. Hopefully the rumors are false, but maybe they aren't, so why not check in case?

I don't think there's anything wrong or evil about allowing your former horse to be sent to retirement or an alumni by the school, nor do I think you are obligated to follow all your horses for life. But if the opportunity to possibly prevent something awful happening to them arises and you can change it, you should.

But it seems like the OP *did* ask the school, thoroughly enough to feel relatively assured that he's going somewhere safe. And I think her irritation at the school was justified - even knowing that a school has limited funds, it can't feel very nice to hear that they've used up and broken something you loved, now you can have it back. They didn't tell her "pick him up or he goes to auction" yet it seems like many posters are responding as if they did and she said ok, that's easier than bothering. I know I don't know her well enough to predict how should would have responded to that, so it seems a bit harsh to judge her based on our imagined idea of her response to something that didn't even happen.

[vineyridge]

Well, I think 2ndyrgal has acted very responsibly under the circumstances and should be commended for following through with the college.

Sounds as though the old gentleman will have a place to heal and a decent retirement, DV. And that the professionals at the college have determined that he has a chance for a decent quality of life in retirement, so that euthanasia isn't necessary at the moment.

You done good, 2ndyrgal, even if we have been very hard on you.

[ESG]

How very convenient, That a plethora of "perfect homes" should miraculously appear, just as the thread was heating up. And, even more coincidentally, from the very institution trying to get the OP to pick up her horse "immediately".

Am I the only one not buying this? Or am I just the most jaded?

[KellyS]

Yes, ESG, amazing how the story has changed over the course of 10 pages.

Someone said something about "walking the walk." I think many, if not most, of the people who posted on this thread do just that. We have the oldies in our barns or boarded, making sure they have a good end to their days. We do not complain about costs, inconvenience, or not being able to bear to see them to a peaceful end. They are the horses that are past their prime--the ones who you may never ride again, but just grooming them brings back memories of all the fun you had together. Their special needs make them special horses and you never mind making the extra trip out there to feed an extra meal, add another blanket, or give them their own turnout time. I tell my horses the same thing I tell my parents--I will be there for you always.

If nothing else, the responses the OP received on this thread have certainly seemed to impact the way the situation is being handled--and in a good way. No one should feel bad for calling a situation as they see it--especially when it comes to the welfare of other human beings or animals.

[2ndyrgal]

I hope nothing in your life ever changes so you will be able to keep that promise. I promise..... and forever. Those words are easy to say, and can be impossible sometimes to actually make happen. Recent posts about divorce, illness and serious injuries should maybe make you rethink that one. None of those serious things apply to me right now, but due to business responsibilities and other personal matters, my situation has changed.

As a side note, while I realize that some of you find it "amazing" that the situation improved, what was not apparent from my posts was that the initial person from the university who contacted me via email, was not the person I ultimately ended up dealing with that had access to the horse's file, ie "the rest of the story". She is a wonderful young woman, quite fond of the horse that thought I would be thrilled to come and get the old boy "now" so, thus my confusion from the begining.

Understand this about me, however. I don't shrink from a fight, and can well tell the difference between the folks on this board I have a great deal of respect for (goeslikestink happens to be one) and the folks who like to pick a fight, without thinking about the fact that, life does have ugly little realities, that rage as you will, you cannot change just by telling another person how YOU think they should conduct themselves. I don't like mean, petty people, I take wonderful care of my horses, in fact, I donated my old guy because he hated foxhunting and he was an easy enough ride I did not want him to end up in some hack lesson barn where he got ridden into the ground daily and then I would have NO IDEA where or what had happened to him.

To those of you who focus strictly on the fact that I seem to have money. I don't. My husband however, does and supports my horse habits. The fact that a person has unlimited funds to throw at a situation, does not mean it can be easily solved. Oftentimes, in spite of financial security, there are things that cannot be changed. My husband had a triple bypass last year, hence alot of changes in my hours associated with our business and my horsekeeping practices. Can I keep the two I have left? Yes,but they need to be out a great deal, in when it's really bad, and ameanable to any schedule they happen to be on, Dinner is not always at 6, sometimes it's at 7:30. Sometimes the weather changes overnight or before I return home. They have thick fur, hot water and run ins and plenty of grass. Safe 4 board fence surrounding real pastures. Sensible and quiet, handled easily by anyone. Open the door and whistle. No shoes, just a trim every 6 weeks by a farrier that just ties them to the stall rail, or lets them eat off the hay pile. These are the type of horses I can have, tucking them in, or going out on the golf cart to check on them after dark for a treat and a nuzzle is what keeps me sane.

It seems as if a couple of persons figured out that you cannot be the "keeper" for every horse you've ever owned or sold. I suppose some people are, I know a few that have many old retiree's. I know of more that take in every horse that is old or unwanted and quickly become the "cat lady" of horse owners, and they are not taken good care of. Not that they aren't loved, but the financial reality of it is, for the average person, just too much. We all know those people and bitch about them on this very BB. I'm sure that their hearts were in the right place, but it only takes loss of a job, a spouse or an injury to change everything in a heartbeat.

If nothing else, this little chat has served to reinforce the fact that we should all plan for the "what if" if possible, and start planning for the worst case scenario. Then, if you want to hear God laugh, tell Him your plans.

[Mayaty02]

way back when I read your first post, I wondered if there was someone who used to ride him who might want to take him...so I am glad that will be the solution. Sounds like there is a "vetting" procedure for the new adoptive parents and you certainly sound like you will make it clear to them that they should contact you in the event anything goes wrong. Check in every year and stay in touch. Sounds like the best situation for you and the horse!

[Appassionato]

Yes, ESG, amazing how the story has changed over the course of 10 pages.

Someone said something about "walking the walk." I think many, if not most, of the people who posted on this thread do just that. We have the oldies in our barns or boarded, making sure they have a good end to their days. We do not complain about costs, inconvenience, or not being able to bear to see them to a peaceful end. They are the horses that are past their prime--the ones who you may never ride again, but just grooming them brings back memories of all the fun you had together. Their special needs make them special horses and you never mind making the extra trip out there to feed an extra meal, add another blanket, or give them their own turnout time. I tell my horses the same thing I tell my parents--I will be there for you always.

If nothing else, the responses the OP received on this thread have certainly seemed to impact the way the situation is being handled--and in a good way. No one should feel bad for calling a situation as they see it--especially when it comes to the welfare of other human beings or animals.

Oh, I HAVE complained about my oldie...:lol:

And great post. The idea that people shouldn't share an opinion because it differs with the OP is wacked.

[Pandarus33]

I don't think this was mentioned but...

You do NOT have to be present when your horse is put down. You can say your good-byes and leave. Watching your beloved pet hit the ground is very unpleasant, to say the least, and I don't thing many people need to see it happen. I know that many vets don't like watching it but you are paying them to do it. If you can't be there and the vet needs assistance, they can always have an vet tech with them. Yes, I might get flamed for this but not everyone can handle watching their pet hit the ground. Everyone has different mind-sets and not watching the final act is not cruel.

Also, who said you need to watch the knacker winch your dead horse into the truck? Pay them and LEAVE! They do this all the time and don't need your help.

Sign the papers, leave the check, say your farewell and know that you did the right thing. There is nothing wrong with not seeing the final act. Yes, I've been with four of my horses that have been put down. I chickened out when putting my old dog down last August. I had just put down my aged pony three weeks before and knew I couldn't go through it again. She had three interns with her when she died. Yes, I've stayed with numerous cats and dogs over the years but have bowed out in a few cases. Don't feel guilty for doing your last compassionate act whether you can be there or not. The fact that you are not letting your pet needlessly suffer is enough.

[3fatponies]

Making a lifelong committment to your horses is great, but it's a personal decision and I sure don't think it gives you the right to judge everyone else (you know, most of the horse world...) who do otherwise. --Jess

Personally, I don't understand the fuss about what is posted here. The OP (who was extremely gracious throughout this thread, I agree) asked for opinions. She got them.

Honestly, I think it's pretty simple: you (collective "you," not personally directed at anyone) post about something causing you anxiety, you receive answers that may push you to investigate and lessen that anxiety, so you do investigate. As a result, your anxiety lessens, you determine alternate courses of action, and in this case, you discover the horse has a home. Ultimately, whether people were sharing strong opinions or not, good comes from it, so where's the issue?

And I think you misunderstood what people were saying. No one said you need to keep your horse forever, but I think most here would agree that if you believe the horse is at risk, then you need to investigate and see what you can do to help. You are not obligated to do so, but it's what responsible, intelligent, compassionate people do: if you see a problem, whether it's yours or not, you try to help.

If you chose not to try and help, that is your right, of course, but you should expect to be called out on it. If being called on it makes people think more deeply about the subject and maybe helps some horses in the future, then what's the harm? :) We're all adults, and if you can't take internet savaging, then message boards shouldn't be on your list of places to visit. :yes:

[Appassionato]

Personally, I don't understand the fuss about what is posted here. The OP (who was extremely gracious throughout this thread, I agree) asked for opinions. She got them.

Honestly, I think it's pretty simple: you (collective "you," not personally directed at anyone) post about something causing you anxiety, you receive answers that may push you to investigate and lessen that anxiety, so you do investigate. As a result, your anxiety lessens, you determine alternate courses of action, and in this case, you discover the horse has a home. Ultimately, whether people were sharing strong opinions or not, good comes from it, so where's the issue?

And I think you misunderstood what people were saying. No one said you need to keep your horse forever, but I think most here would agree that if you believe the horse is at risk, then you need to investigate and see what you can do to help. You are not obligated to do so, but it's what responsible, intelligent, compassionate people do: if you see a problem, whether it's yours or not, you try to help.

If you chose not to try and help, that is your right, of course, but you should expect to be called out on it. If being called on it makes people think more deeply about the subject and maybe helps some horses in the future, then what's the harm? :) We're all adults, and if you can't take internet savaging, then message boards shouldn't be on your list of places to visit. :yes:

Agreed and one point should be mentioned: she asked for the phone call.

In my own thread about "Am I in the wrong" people agreed and disagreed with if the 4-her and family should have ben at the meeting. No one fought, no one was hostile to one another, so I have to ask why even though I know the answer. My post was clear and didn't seem to contain inconsistencies. Thta's what people take issue with when reading a news article, a post...you name it. They look for inconsistencies. Most COTHers IMO are great horseowners, and want what's best for horses as an overall. Oldies will always be a heated issue. And if we DON'T discuss them, we can't help them.

[KellyS]

Kelly...I hope nothing in your life ever changes so you will be able to keep that promise. I promise..... and forever. Those words are easy to say, and can be impossible sometimes to actually make happen. Recent posts about divorce, illness and serious injuries should maybe make you rethink that one.

Actually, I'm in the middle of a serious illness. And I've made arrangements for wonderful homes with dear friends for the horses if something happens to me or my husband. That promise will be kept, even if I'm not here to keep it.

So no, I don't really need to "rethink" anything right now. And being this ill has made me realize that there are two types of people out there--those who only need you when you are healthy and able to be productive and those who love you no matter what. I am infinitely blessed to be surrounded by friends and family in the second group and can only aspire to extend that love to the animals and humans around me.

[King's Ransom]

I think this thread got off on a train wreck because the OP set herself up when she asked whether not responding to her old horse's needs made her a bad mom. I understand she was upset when she wrote the initial message, and probably never expected the resounding YES! she got from all of us. She didn't expect it because she knew a lot more about the situation than the rest of us did. If she had asked, here's what happened today, what do you think I should do? Or, what would you do in the same situation? then she would not have set herself up to be attacked. People could have offered their opinions and she might have gained some insight.

As it was, it appeared to us -- the apparently uninformed and thus ignorant of the whole story -- that the OP simply wanted nothing to do with this horse. She trusted the University to do what "was right," even though it appeared to us that she really had no idea what the University was going to do. I know that my impression was that she just did not want to be responsible for this horse and wanted us to say that we agreed, she was not responsible. I never said she should take the horse home herself, no matter what her circumstances. But finding out she had plenty of money to take care of the horse, but she felt she was not responsible to do so ... it was only one side of the story -- but that was the only side that we were seeing.

Here is what we knew: someone once owned a horse, donated it to a university, and told them to please call if the horse ever needed her; when the university called that the horse did indeed need her, she was financially well able to provide for the horse but believed the horse was now the responsibility of the university, and though she could provide for the horse she did not want to experience the emotional trauma of doing so.

We now know this was not the whole story. But this was the story we had.

I still say that, given THOSE facts, the person in THAT story is not a good horse mom.

The person who called and checked and verified and explained that she simply could NOT take the horse now due to changes in her own circumstances ... but offered to help provide for the horse financially if necessary and wants to be sure the future owners have her contact information ... and will perhaps make a site-check visit someday to ensure that her old horse did indeed wind up in a good place ... THAT person is a very good horse mom and I salute her. And empathize tremendously with the heartache that went into making this decision.

[YankeeLawyer]

There are so many double standards on this thread that it's like a math class :rolleyes:

Some of you seem to be taking the position that every horse owner is responsible for every horse she ever owns from the moment she first takes ownership until the moment the horse dies. While I think that's a beautiful committment to make for those who choose to do so, I simply do not think it is a fundamental principle of horse ownership. I know that to some of you, that makes me a bad person or unfit owner. So be it. I just don't think it is a realistic expectation. I think that horse owners are responsible for doing the best they can to keep their horses happy and healthy while they own them, and for providing the health care they need to be comfortable or a dignified alternative when that isn't feasible. And I think that owners are responsible for transfering ownership to someone they believe will behave in a similar fashion. And that is where the responsibility ends.

I just don't think that each of us is responsible for becoming animal control for all future owners of horses we sell. I know that I wouldn't buy a horse from someone who indicates she intends to "check up on me" in the future. But checking up on the future owner, and the owner after that, is the logical extension of this idea that owners are responsible for the horse "for life." Horses aren't people; I don't think that the committment we make to them is the same as, for example, the lifetime committment to one's children.

I also don't think that donating a horse to a college or other program changes the former owner's responsibility to the horse once the program assumes ownership. Would those of you who think the OP is a "bad mom" for not retiring the horse if she's sold the horse? What if someone bought the horse for $$, showed him for a few years, and then he went lame? Would you think it was the OP's responsibility to retire the horse in that situation? If not, what makes things different because the horse was donated to a college? I don't think that asking for "first right of refusal" is the same thing as being obligated to take it...

And then there's the implied judgements of the unnamed college program. Why all the warnings and innuendos to personally witness what happens to the horse? Again, would those of you who think the OP needs to "see with her own eyes" apply the same standard if the horse had been sold to a private home? (Because if so, again, you'd have to keep track of the horse with every new owner, checking up even if you weren't welcome, and inserting your will at some point if the new owners disagreed with you...) Why do you imply that a college program is somehow less trustworthy than an individual owner? I'd say that aside from being horselovers, those affiliated with college teams have more incentive to make sure they do the right things -- they need to maintain the reputations of their programs, and often rely on donations for horses, so they need to be sure that owners are comfortable donating horses in the future. I was very involved with my school's team when I was in college. We didn't have unlimited resources, but we certainly tried to do the very best we could by every one of our horses. And when we didn't have the resources to make things right, we at least made them comfortable and caring and dignified. Why do so many of you seem to believe that the school in question here would do any less?

Perhaps those of you who have been so quick to judge the OP or the school never sell your horses. You keep every horse you own for it's whole life, retire it in luxury when it can't work any more, and have it euthanized when the time comes. Or, if you do sell a horse, you do so with a contract that requires the owner to sell the horse back to you. And you do background checks to make sure the new owner is up to snuff, and then random spot checks in the future... That's your choice, but I don't think any less of the OP for taking good care of her horse while she owned him, donating him to a program she believed in him when he wasn't suitable for her job any more, and then being sad or confused when she heard about his injury. Making a lifelong committment to your horses is great, but it's a personal decision and I sure don't think it gives you the right to judge everyone else (you know, most of the horse world...) who do otherwise. --Jess

I think a number of people on this board spend a considerable amount of their own time, energy, and money rescuing other people's castoffs so they may get rubbed a bit wrong when a poster boasts that they have the money to build a Man O War monument for the horse but because of a lack of time and facilities could not find a way to assure that the horse went to a good place (at least that was how this thread started, apparently the OP has since managed to resolve the issue). I am not saying that people are right in being judgmental, but the above is why I think many people on this board, at least, recoil at stories like this.

[mazu]

I think a number of people on this board spend a considerable amount of their own time, energy, and money rescuing other people's castoffs so they may get rubbed a bit wrong when a poster boasts that they have the money to build a Man O War monument for the horse but because of a lack of time and facilities could not find a way to assure that the horse went to a good place (at least that was how this thread started, apparently the OP has since managed to resolve the issue). I am not saying that people are right in being judgmental, but the above is why I think many people on this board, at least, recoil at stories like this.

You have to admit JAGold has a point, though. OP transferred ownership of a horse to someone else, and now cannot take him back. Before you can consider that a horribly cruel thing to do, it's a reasonable question to ask *you* (and everyone else who found sport in vilifying OP) if your barn is open to every horse you've ever sold.

Is it?

Few of us could not somehow find a way to take on another horse, time- or money-wise, but it's not reasonable to expect that we morally have to. Especially if the current owner is responsible enough to make sure the horse is taken care of, as it appears this one is.

[philosoraptor]

OP transferred ownership of a horse to someone else, and now cannot take him back. Before you can consider that a horribly cruel thing to do, it's a reasonable question to ask *you* (and everyone else who found sport in vilifying OP) if your barn is open to every horse you've ever sold.

There's a difference between the dealer who sells horses... and an individual who cared about a horse enough to insist on a "right of first refusal" in the sales agreement.


It raises a good question though...
Not just about this OP's dilemma, but about horse contracts in general:

Does "right of first refusal" or a "return clause" in a contract imply previous owner has a moral obligation to make an effort to take a horse back? Why else would previous owner be asking for this special consideration?

From a current owner's perspective, it can be quite a pain to delay a sale and try to track down the old owner. Imagine a situation where the horse is badly injured and needs layup care... he needs to be rehomed ASAP if he's in a riding program that doesn't have rehab funds.

Maybe in a perfect world, when enough time goes by and former owner doesn't "have the room" or have any interest in having the horse back, shouldn't former owner release new owner from this condition?

Just pondering this on a hypothetical basis.

[YankeeLawyer]

You have to admit JAGold has a point, though. OP transferred ownership of a horse to someone else, and now cannot take him back. Before you can consider that a horribly cruel thing to do, it's a reasonable question to ask *you* (and everyone else who found sport in vilifying OP) if your barn is open to every horse you've ever sold.

Is it?

Few of us could not somehow find a way to take on another horse, time- or money-wise, but it's not reasonable to expect that we morally have to. Especially if the current owner is responsible enough to make sure the horse is taken care of, as it appears this one is.

Yes in fact my barn is OPEN to EVERY horse I have ever sold and I do not expect others to do the same. If you go back to the initial few posts of the OP, the story was presented quite differently than the one that emerged later, and not just because some of the facts were left out. My last post was responding to the question of how could the OP have ellicited such a strong response from many on this Board. It is my view that many on this board will respond strongly to posts such as those at the beginning of this thread precisely because many posters, even those who are by no means rich, or have carefree schedules, bend over backwards to save horses that others have turned their back on (even though that person may very well have been in a better position to help the horse). And yes, I have scraped together money at times to help horses that never belonged to me and whose former owners couldn't be bothered with them, even though at the time the former owners were in a far better position than me to help the animal.

As I said, I am not saying anyone is justified in judging others, but I do think there is a reason people react strongly to posts like this.

[summerhorse]

I think a number of people on this board spend a considerable amount of their own time, energy, and money rescuing other people's castoffs so they may get rubbed a bit wrong when a poster boasts that they have the money to build a Man O War monument for the horse but because of a lack of time and facilities could not find a way to assure that the horse went to a good place (at least that was how this thread started, apparently the OP has since managed to resolve the issue). I am not saying that people are right in being judgmental, but the above is why I think many people on this board, at least, recoil at stories like this.

Exactly!

And people need to think ahead about things like accidents, illness, incapacitation, divorce, etc. and make plans for their horses. While as time goes by the likelihood of my emergency plans being utilized lessens I still do have a good person who will give my pasture potato (who has not been useful for several years now which means i've been effectively grounded for a few years now) a good home. She will come and get her and all her clothing, equipment, shelter, and fence off her own section for her and her goat and keep her happy until the time comes. We have discussed when that time would be. We also have agreed that if something happened to HER after that that her vet would euthanize her and bury her there (luckily they have the land). She won't go down the road except in the extremely unlikely possibility that she found someone trustworthy who took as good and anal of care of their horses as we do. There are also back ups to that plan although not as good. As time marches by it seems that it will be more likely that if something happens to me suddenly that it would be time to euthanize her anyway as her arthritis increases.

I have a committee of people who will work to find homes (or euthanize if needed) my other pets too. They know what kind of home I would pick and how to check references and I have left an insurance policy to my sister in order to pay their way so they can take as long as needed to place them as they have to.

There is an old horse out there that I would take in a heartbeat if i only knew where he was. He's old now, his riding years are gone, he's had skin cancers around his eyes (Paint) and may not even be alive from that or from Katrina which did go through his area. I had many good times riding him in the summers when I went home and love him dearly. So even though it would mean I'd not ride for even MORE years I'd still take him in a minute. So there ARE people out there like that as well as all the people (many many of whom are on this board) who will step up and take this horses just because they need someone to take them. Unfortunately there are just more horses than people that feel that way. =(

As someone pointed out you don't HAVE to be present at euthanasia or disposal/burial. And there are odds that you have at least one friend or relative or just compassionate soul that will step in for you to be sure the job gets done properly in the case of a horse not at home (like this guy was). The important thing is to provide for the horse, not be there for every sad moment. Sometimes it is better for the animals if the sobbing owner is NOT there, they don't realize anything is up necessarily. But an hysterical owner can set everyone on edge. And if it will give you Post traumatic stress syndrome there is certainly no need to go through that, doing the right thing in letting them go is enough.

[HobbyHorseLabradors]

Ok, horses GET HURT, that's what they do! Deal with it and do the right thing. Just because you donated a sound horses doesn't mean he nothing bad could happen to him. It did and now you don't want him. If you were so hot on getting him "home" last summer, how in the world were you going to care for him then? I guess it would have been different because then he was sound. I guess then you would have been willing to bring him in when he wanted to and take proper care of him because he was worth something, like when you donated him. Well, now he needs you and you aren't there for him. IMO, you ARE a bad mom.
Have you even gone to SEE how bad his injury is? Or are you taking someone you don't knows word for it?
Is there a reason you can't go see for yourself or would that be too hard on your "last memory of him" as well? Maybe it's not as bad as they say and he can be gievn to a retirement home?
The don't ask approach is not the responsible one. Sometimes we have to do hard things. If you can't handle that, don't have animals.



It is not that I do not want him back because he is "unusable". I sent them a wonderful horse that I had shown successfully that was 14 yrs old and had never taken a lame step. I did not expect to get him back in anywhere near that condition, I did expect to get him back. What I did not expect was a call that was "your horse now has needs we cant meet and is of no use to us, please come and get him." They have not let me know what his fate will be if I do not. He is not a horse that I can turn out with mine, or keep as I do my current horses. This does NOT mean I do not care what happens to him, of course I do. So I should bring him home, watch him hobble around on 3 legs until I can't stand it and put him down.And rip my heart out again. So those of you who say "shame on me" don't think that the university that has had him, riding and competing on him the last SIX years has any responsibility because, well, their programs depend on donations and they just don't have much to work with and well, if they use the horses completely up then dump them, well, why are we surprised? Really. I did NOT donate some piece of crap that wasn't winning for me, I donated a wonderful horse, that was extremely competitive because I think it is a wonderful program and they deserve NICE horses, not just second hand stuff. I donated my horse, and the other two, because I had taken up foxhunting and none of the horses were suitable for that. I kept in touch, visited a couple times a year and as he was aging, contacted them over the summer with hints that the old boy might be ready to come home. They assured me he was still going strong and they were going to keep him forever. Til he couldn't be ridden. Til he would no longer "suit". So then I get, you can come as early as TODAY, so he won't be a bother for us anymore. My husband and I have donated horses and $$$ in excess of 20K over the last several years and we don't have any affiliation with the program at all. The university can certainly afford to provide a horse that COST THEM NOTHING with either a suitable retirement in a home that can meet the needs of an old horse with special needs going into winter, or provide him with a dignified end. I've been on the end of enough lead ropes on the last day, thank you very much, and I've visited vibrant race horses I took care of years ago, only to be saddened seeing them headbobbing lame, so someone could get that last cheap stud fee. So I am sorry, but to bring home a horse so I can be the one to put him down, and watch him get winched into the dead horse guys truck, isn't really what I want my last memory of him to be. For any of you that would like that responsibility, pm me and I will be glad to put you in contact with the appropriate person.

[Coup De Des]

please let this thread die!

[lark_b]

Agreed. 2ndyrgal has been banned (I don't know why, maybe I missed something) and isn't here to defend herself. Her decisions are made, everything there is to say has been said, just leave her alone.

[mazu]

There's a difference between the dealer who sells horses... and an individual who cared about a horse enough to insist on a "right of first refusal" in the sales agreement.


It raises a good question though...
Not just about this OP's dilemma, but about horse contracts in general:

Does "right of first refusal" or a "return clause" in a contract imply previous owner has a moral obligation to make an effort to take a horse back? Why else would previous owner be asking for this special consideration?

From a current owner's perspective, it can be quite a pain to delay a sale and try to track down the old owner. Imagine a situation where the horse is badly injured and needs layup care... he needs to be rehomed ASAP if he's in a riding program that doesn't have rehab funds.

Maybe in a perfect world, when enough time goes by and former owner doesn't "have the room" or have any interest in having the horse back, shouldn't former owner release new owner from this condition?

Just pondering this on a hypothetical basis.

It's a good question. My answer would be, "It depends."

Right of refusal is just giving the former owner the chance to take the horse back if he thinks that's best. The term implies that not taking the horse back *is* an option, and one that the former owner is perfectly within his rights to choose. If the former owner did his homework on the current owner before the sale/donation, I think it unlikely (though certainly possible) that the horse will meet a bad fate if the former owner can't/won't take him back.

It's just so dependent on circumstances. Do you have any reason to think you're the only good home the horse will find? Is the current owner committed to placing the horse in a good home? Is he able of caring for the horse long enough to find that home, indefinitely if need be? Can you be involved in the next sale/donation in some way to ensure the horse's future well-being? If the answers are no, yes, yes, and yes, I don't think you have a moral obligation to act on the first right of refusal.

It's stickier if the answers are different. Here I would give pause because the school may be limited in its ability to hold the horse until re-homed (budget constraints), and they didn't contact the former owner about the previous horse she donated (apparently they did find him a good home, but transparency would have been nice). But, they seem to be handling this one well ...

[mazu]

Banned? Man, I hate it when I pick the wrong side to be on.

[JAGold]

Banned? Man, I hate it when I pick the wrong side to be on.
"Banned" doesn't always mean that someone has done something horrible. It's usually a three-day sentance for an infraction of the rules, especially about buying or selling over the BB. I don't have any idea why the OP was banned in this case. --Jess

[KellyS]

I believe she posted an advertisement on the Eventing forum--she has extra stalls at her barn and was looking for people with horses to fill them. Apparently they are building a new arena/indoor at the place.

[HobbyHorseLabradors]

Hmm, extra stalls for paying boarders but no facilities for the poor old guy...
Nice...