Balancing family and horse concerns

[notmefornow]

Today my husband of 18 years told me that unless I sold my two horses, gave away our two dogs and started doing things that he wanted, he wanted a divorce and was leaving that night.

My two children (ages 8 and 12) are devastated. I'm pretty darn upset with him too. He says that he's going to give me a list of things that I have to do to make the marraige work or he's out of here.

My husband has a history of depression but will not take anti-depressants or seek medical advice. He's a pilot and afraid that he will lose his licence. The last few months I've felt that he's slipping into a depression. He's also been highly controlling and suspicious of me, even accusing me of having an affaire (which I'm not).

He's told me that he will support the children but not me; I guess he figures that asking me to sell my horses (one of which I've owned for more than 10 years) is the way he's going to punish me and that he will achieve this goal either way. Yes, I know that divorce laws will protect me up to a point, but he has his own business and I wouldn't put it past him to liquidate it and claim that he has only enough assets to pay child support. He says this is my fault for being too independent and selfish :cry: .

I know that the holidays are a bad time for him, and that winter is hard, too. But my kids are sobbing about losing their pets and I really, really do not want to sell my horses.

I have my own business, but at his request, scaled it back several years ago so that I would be in a more supportive role. At this point, I would be unable to support myself on what I make, although over time I could probably expand it again.

I know others on this board have been in marraiges where horses are an issue. How did you'all handle it? Especially when children are involved.

If my kids were older, I'd probably just end it now, but I'm not sure that I can do that to them, especially my younger one.

Advice please :confused: and :mad: and :cry:

[jilltx]

I can't give you any advice...but it sounds to me like perhaps you need to see a counselor...pronto.

His list of "demands" is not a healthy way to deal with ANY problem for any of you and I doubt that your meeting his demands will fix the "problem" that he has.

***JINGLES*** for you and for your kids.

[LulaBell]

Just a note on a counselor - I've never felt that counseling where all involved parties are working with the therapist (or whatever) at the same time works. Nobody says what they really mean. Individual appointments with the same therapist I've found to be much more helpful.

This is just what I've found worked with my family - I hope things work out ok.

[War Admiral]

Tell him goodbye. For openers, he's being psychologically abusive to your kids by threatening to take away their pets. That's your sign, right there.

I spent 10 years trying to satisfy a guy like this and look where it got me.

Good luck, MANY hugs, and don't forget, do NOT move out of the house, no matter what kind of threats are made.

[Adelita]

Honey, I say this with love:
kick him to the curb.
He is a partner, not an owner. Sounds like he has a control issue big time, and trust me, it will only get worse.
It's hard now.....but you have to get out of there. Talk about unhealthy. Marriage is a partnership, not a "do as I say or else".
(((((((hugs)))))))

[deltawave]

Oh my God, I'm so sorry for you. :(

These situations NEVER, EVER, EVER work out if you go along with selfish, cruel requests that are ridiculous just to "please" someone. NEVER, EVER. Why the hell should his "happiness" be worth sacrificing yours? And do you really think checking off the items on his "list" will make him happy? Pffft. :mad:

Ask yourself if you really want to be married to someone who would manipulate you and your children like this. Ask yourself if your youngest is really better off with this kind of role model and "father" figure. Then (after getting a good counselor) get a good lawyer. Protect your children. If he'd make an ultimatum like this, what else wouldn't he do to feel powerful over his family? :no:

I'm all for rational dialogue and trying to make things work, but I'd show this guy the door and take him up on his offer.

Best of luck to you.

[crosscreeksh]

I can't offer you advice, but it seems that his demands are just a way to dominate you and the relationship. After you get rid of the horses and other pets - what will his next demand be...get rid of the kids??? Sounds like a power play from a disturbed person. I'd opt with keeping the animals and letting the husband "regroup" or leave. JMO

[baileygreyhorse]

I'm sorry this is happening to you. Basically, it sucks. Do some real hard thinking though. Do you really want to be with a man that asks you to give up what you love? Do you really want your children to see you do that? My mom left my dad when I was a baby because the marriage was toxic. She knew that it wasn't going to get better and when to cut her losses. Divorce is not always the worst thing that can happen to a family. Stay strong and take care of yourself. And get a good lawyer first thing in the morning.

[YoungFilly]

I'm so sorry that your going through this. There is definately something wrong with his logic here. He does sound like he is suffering from depression, but in an ugly way, a way that seeks to make everyone around him as miserable as he is. In my experience, there is nothing you can do except get as far away from that person as possible.

One of the things you might want to do (for NOW) so you do not loose your horses is try and smooth it over right now, but start building back your business without him knowing, if possible. You do not want to be at this guys mercy, and right now, you are, so you need to fix that first before removing him from your life.

Your kids, how are they handling this besides the fear of loosing the animals? Do they get along with him? Does he control them too?

Good luck, keep talking to us, we will do all we can to help!

[King's Ransom]

Okay, take a deep breath. See a lawyer and a counselor. Tomorrow.

As Dr. Phil says, kids would rather be FROM a broken family than live in one! (I am no fan of Dr. Phil, but on this point, I agree and bring it up only so that you will not subject yourself and your children to escalating emotional abuse for "their sake" ... none of you wants to be abused, so get that out of your head!)

Do you keep your horses at home, or do you board? Is there some temporary arrangement you could make with the horses (and the dogs) in order to buy time and at least a temporary truce? If you are not prepared to be single now, then you need to do whatever you can to buy some time in order to prepare yourself. Whether the marriage eventually works out, you never want to find yourself in this vulnerable spot again. If you can get past this crisis, then you can buy some time to re-build your business, re-arrange your finances and prepare yourself for the next potential onslaught.

Do you have joint accounts for investments and checking, etc? There is a strong possibility that he will drain one or more accounts before you have a chance to protect yourself. You need to have some money set aside somewhere that he can't get to. You can always put it back later, but right now you have to protect your flank. And it is NOT stealing if the money is in a joint account -- you both own it 100 percent. By the way, it is not stealing if he takes it all out, and leaves you with nothing, either. You have absolutely no legal recourse if he drains a joint account. So be careful and protect yourself and your kids.

You realize, of course, that his demands are unreasonable. But you may need to do SOMETHING to appease him in the short-term so that this can be worked out in the least-devastating manner possible. Perhaps the dogs could go to a friend or family member, or even a boarding kennel on a temporary basis. Same with the horses.

I am not saying you should give in. But I am saying that IF he is declaring war (and it sounds like he is), then you need to be very strategic. Winning battles (as in, saying something like I REFUSE to give up the animals) and losing the war (as in, becoming destitute overnight when he wipes out all of the joint accounts, moves out, and you cannot even pay the mortgage) is not smart. Like I said, take a deep breath. Put your emotions on hold (you can cry later) and use your head.

Good luck, sweetie. Things have a way of working out. This too, shall pass. One way or another.

[Wanderluster]

Oh I am so sorry. I will leave it to others who post here to advise on some detailed info. you will need to get through this. But I would immediately contact your CPA to put together any and all financial records pertaining to your joint assets and then call a very good attorney if divorce is an eventuality. Better to be proactive with these things.

One thing that I would like to add for moral support - I had a 6 yr old and a 2 1/2 yr old when my marriage ended. I did struggle but I can tell you there is a bright and better future than one living with a sick person unwilling to help themselves.

I have a rich full life made possible through my decision to go " jump off the cliff and build my wings on the way down" 18 years ago. It was terribly scary at the time. Thankfully I'm tough and have a wonderful network of family, friends and business associates. Good Luck !

[paw]

Indeed - let him go.

If he's slipping into a depression, calling him on his threat might change his perspective a bit (it might not, too). But getting rid of the animals and becoming a doormat is _not_ going to make your home better for your kids.

Hugs. You'll find a way to make it work if he leaves. Do find a good lawyer ASAP, and tell a friend what's going on, in case he decides that your unwillingness to meet his demands isn't acceptable.

[Jsalem]

Oh dear, I'm so sorry. I'm with Adelita: Kick him to the curb.

This just dosen't sound healthy. I'm so glad to hear you have your own means of support. Ramp it up. It's time to take care of business. Stand your ground. If you're like me, your pets are a part of your family. Your horses make you happy. The ultimatim he's given you is pathetic. He expects you to give up the things you love, helpless animals that count on you to show your love? Huh?

As traumatic as this may be for your children, I suggest you see it through. I've been there- you'll be fine. And they'll be fine in a healthy household. Strength to you---

[King's Ransom]

Two more words --
1. Don't hesitate about getting money out of joint accounts. You may find yourself penniless by 10 a.m. tomorrow. If I were in your shoes, I would even make an excuse to go to the store or something TONIGHT and make a cash withdrawal from an ATM. I think the limit is $600 or so, I would take out the limit and put it in an envelope and take it to a trusted friend or relative to keep for you. I would do this TONIGHT. Then, I would do whatever was feasible tomorrow to get some money into a single account.

2. About not leaving the house -- if threats are made (and if he is severely depressed that could happen) do not be silly about staying in the house. I had to leave my abusive husband. I travelled through 6 states in 3 weeks to stay away from him. In that time, he cooled down and was no longer a physical threat ... but I never did go back to the house. Do you know when women get killed? They get killed when they go back -- they go back to get their stuff, or they have a "showdown" over who is going to get the house. Maybe it will not be an issue, but there is nothing in that house worth dying for. Believe me, I left after 25 years with nothing more than a night bag, the clothes I was wearing, and a few mementos that I grabbed on the way out the door. Never went back. Financially devastating. But I'm alive today to tell the story. Many others are not.

[Laurierace]

A "real" husband would never make such a request. Seems to me that he made your mind up for you by making such an outrageous ultimatum. Hugs to all of you, but you can and will get through this.

[poetaperegrinus]

Let him go. It will be tough for awhile, but you'll get through it, and you will get money out of him, tho maybe not as much as you should. But start the legal process sooner rather than later, as it does take time, and meanwhile, you may have to support yourself & your kids on your own. Don't be ashamed to ask your family for support (heck, ask *his* family!)

This is not about the pets, it's about controlling you. If he gets his way now, the demands will just escalate. What sort of lesson are you teaching your kids, if you let that happen? If you let him walk out, even if you do have to give up one or both horses at some point to make ends meet, it will be YOUR decision, not his.

Divorce is not good for kids, but a desperately unhappy family is worse.


Best wishes–

[HungarianHippo]

I really want to know who included the kids in this discussion? Did he already tell them that 'the pets must go' (prior to both parents agreeing upon it)? Or did you?
Not that I'm on his side, at all, but were there any discussions about the animals prior to this? Has he explained, or can you ask, how getting rid of them will improve the marriage? Is the cost an issue? How much do you know about the finances of his company? I would be a little worried about that-- is he clamping down on you--trying to control SOMEthing-- because there are problems he's not telling you about at work?

What I would do, in this order:

Tell him you need more time to think about this. Get him to postpone any final decisions for 1-2 days.
Make copies of every important financial document you have on file. Get bank statements, copies of mortgages, everything.
Consult a lawyer. Nothing in your post indicates that you still want to fight to save this marriage, so I'm going on the assumption that you've got one foot out the door.
Then, based on lawyers advice, have the discussion with hubby where you say you will not sell the pets and you're prepared for him to follow up on his ultimatum of leaving you.
However, scaling back on finances is often a reality no matter what the outcome of a divorce, so I would look to see if there's someway I could keep both horses less expensively (pasture board? half lease? etc).

Good luck.

[county]

Do yourself and your kids a favor and tell him good bye its going to get worse not beeter and your never going to have any self pride.

[PalominoMorgan]

As an adult who lived thru the broken home thing (mom took dad back 3 times) it would have been much easier if the break had been cleaner. Eventually I came to my own decision and told my father never to speak to me again because I wasn't going to play his games. That one hurt. I never did speak to him again and he passed away a few years ago. I cried, but not because he had passed. I cried and remembered the good times and memories I had from when I was little, before his mental illness really kicked in. (He acused my mom of cheaing, stalked her, broke into the house when we were out, stole from just about everyone, etc.)

Don't be afraid to end it. Giving in to these demands will not solve anything and will only give him more power. That is not a partnership. Your kids will understand in time. In the meantime it is gonna hurt like hell for everyone, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Set aside as much money as you can. Plan on having a place to escape to in case you should need to with the kids. Make arrangements for the dogs to go with or be kenneled or stay with friends. Make DAMN sure the barn owner (if you board) knows your husband is not allowed to remove the horses from the premisis or sell them without your direct verbal consent in person.

Sorry your kids have to go thru this, but from someone who was there... they'll be ok. If you are strong and the three of you stick together it will be fine. My brother and I are both stronger for what we went thru and we both understand that friends are family you choose.

Good luck to you and hugs to your kiddos.

[Heart-n-Soul]

I basically agree with everyone else. He sounds pretty controlling right now and if counseling doesn't help, I say end it. You nor your kids deserve this kind of treatment.

I'm definitely not an expert on this considering I'm only 16 but I just wanted to let you know that you have a shoulder to lean on if you ever need to! Keep your chin up - things will work out, one way or another.

[lovemyrobin]

The first thing I would ask myself is "could I even stand to have this man in my presence if I had to sell my horses because of him" Sounds like he is being sadistic, and trying to manipulate and control.

I think that would be worse than leaving now..........with my horses

[Chevalnoir]

Agree with everyone who says - this isn't about the horses, and getting rid of them will not fix the problem.

Do you really want your children to grow up in a household where emotional abuse and blackmail (because that's what this is) are considered normal and acceptable? The damage to your children from living in this sort of environment will far, far outweigh whatever damage they will experience due to a divorce.

Counselling is good, getting him to get treatment for his depression would be better, but if neither of those things are possible - you're better off making a good life for yourself and your kids than living a crappy one with someone on a dominance trip.

[notmefornow]

Thanks to everyone for the words of support. They really help.

I stopped him from leaving today because I didn't want him to disappear on the kids. They have known for some time that their father suffers from depression and I have been trying to reinforce that this is not their fault. My daughter asked why taking away the things they love will make him feel better and I don't really have an answer for this.

I guess I hate the fact that he's trying to make me the bad guy in all of this. Over the years that we've been together I have tried hard to be supportive. I know he resents the time I spend riding and while he might not say so, I've tried hard to always make time for him. He is not without fault in this situation.

Today he took away my car (which is owned by his business), but I still have a pick up truck which is luckily in my name. I have my own bank account for my business, so my immediate needs are covered. I also can count on my own family for emotional support and for financial support if it comes to that. I've asked a friend who was divorced recently to recommend a lawyer. I just wish that it hadn't come to this.

He left about an hour ago to go out. I assume he's coming back; earlier he packed his bags but he didn't take them. He said that nothing had changed but I'm still reeling from the day -- I'm not sure what could have changed so soon.

I like the idea of taking the dogs to a friend's. That would at least give us some breathing room. I'm even willing to sell one of the horses. To give the other up would break my heart. He's my once in a lifetime horse.

[Lucassb]

Oh, rats. What a crummy, awful thing for him to do.

However, I will tell you from firsthand, personal experience that people like this are never satisfied. There isn't anything that you can give up to make them happy... they are lashing out, and just want everyone else to be as miserable as they are. It only gets worse with these guys. The actions you describe are pretty classic.

I know it seems unfathomable right now, but it does sound like you and the children will be much better off at some (safe) distance from your husband. You don't want your kids growing up to think it is acceptable to treat people you love with this kind of cruelty.

You are correct that the law will protect you to some extent, but it is very important to get a good attorney at the outset (yes, possibly before you have made any permanent decisions.) You need a good accounting of your joint assets, particularly with respect to that business he could just liquidate. Copies of old tax records, loan documents, bank statements etc are all important. You can always get copies of these things if the originals are "missing," ... but you have to know they exist first. Make it a priority to find out where all the "stuff" is.

If you can... I'd move the horses to a different location, even a friend's pasture. If asked, you are "moving them to a less expensive barn" while you sort things out. I would not get rid of the dogs (they will be a comfort to your kids) unless you think your husband might do something to them. Scary thought, I know. But better safe than sorry.

Like so many others, I am living proof that you can not only get through an experience like this, but come out the other side in MUCH happier circumstances. My ex's behavior was similar to what you've described (he was a pilot, too... go figure.) I was devastated at the time, but eventually had enough and took some action. The divorce was difficult for sure, but you do manage, and better than you might think.

I am now ridiculously happily married to a fabulous guy who tells me every day that he adores me. He is happy to support my horsey habit, spoils me rotten, and I do the same for him (his hobby is bicycling.) Finding the strength to leave my ex is what made THIS great marriage possible. That kind of happiness is OUT THERE waiting for you. Life is too short to be treated the way your husband is trying to treat you. Don't let him.

[RheinlandPfalzSaar]

OMG! I am so sorry that you are going through this horrible thing! For what it's worth I guess my first thought would be - is this the kind of man you want around your kids? Second, if what you love and what makes you happy isn't important to your husband how is he ever going to emotioinally support you? Marriage is about being a team, 2 equal parts and sometimes one of you needs to lift the other up but this needs to be a 2 way street.

I know that you said he has a history of depression, my personal thought is you should be the one making the demands if anyone in the relationship is going to be. What he has asked of you is totally unfair, granted I do not know the intimate details of your relationship. I would tell Husband to go seek treatment with a conselour either jointly or seperately. It does sound like he is having jealously issues over the horses and that is not healthy if this is infact the case.

You said that he was a pilot, is he away a lot? If so, do you make him a priority when he does come home. To be fair try to look at things from his side too, but definitely encourage him to look at the situation with more maturity.

Sounds like you may also have financial concerns? I would say that in your heart if you feel like he would try to liquidate his assets to make you unhappy that you need to think realy hard about this guy, again I don't know the relationship details. Concentrate on building yourself back up by taking more steps into building your own business back up, get your confidence back up that you can do things without him (if I am reading to far into your post I apologize) and never, ever let any man take you away from your horses.

Best of luck, thoughts will be with you and your family.

[annikak]

I would think that he is being weak, he wants a divorce and by saying and placing demands that he knows you cannot and will not meet, he makes you into the "bad" person. Just my take on this.

I do think marriage is a give and take- and like the poster above (Meggan82) that said she made some changes. IF you can seriously take a look at yourself, say you are not placing the animals above him (or at least give him his time, too) are loving and supportive of him- which you can only be if you want to BE there in the marriage- and if you can see a glimmer of sense in what he is really saying to you, perhaps there is still hope.

I agree totally with Hungarianhippo-all of those steps and questions make total sense to me.

Also- get the bank accts in order. I know at many banks, you can get an acct in your name that is password protected. (Uh, and don't use the pets names or kids bdays! He would guess those!) Know if you do this, however, you have drawn a line, too. Its a hard line to back away from if you create it- kind of like the one he has drawn with his demands. Ususally at this point in a relationship, no one wants to back down and lose "power".

Depression is hard- and since I know if they go on antidepressants they will lose their license- that makes is harder. I am sure the industry is facing hard times, as are many of the housing industrys, and perhaps he is getting stress from those areas, too. The animals (okay, not the dogs;) ) cost money, and perhaps all of this is scaring him. A scared depressed man is a tough thing! If there are money issues- well, Money=HUGE stressor.

None of this matters if you don't want to be in the marriage, or if he is physically abusive. He IS being abusive in an emotional way, no question. But is this new? Does this seem out of the blue? Do the holidays always seem to trigger things? Perhaps, if there is still hope, he is asking for help?

Good Luck and keep us posted! Anyway you look at it, its all hard. Please do PM if you need, and for sure keep us updated. <<hugs>>

[Eleanor]

He's also been highly controlling and suspicious of me, even accusing me of having an affaire (which I'm not).

This here tells me that he is having affaire, the only time I have ever had a guy say that is if they are sleeping around and trying to blame me.

I have my own business, but at his request, scaled it back several years ago so that I would be in a more supportive role. At this point, I would be unable to support myself on what I make, although over time I could probably expand it again.

This was controlling and he started leaving you years ago.

If my kids were older, I'd probably just end it now, but I'm not sure that I can do that to them, especially my younger one.

Your husband is doing this not you and you are not doing any good fo rthem staying.

Your husband will leave you if you have the horses or not. He is just trying to take everthing away that gives you enjoyment. I am sorry to say but your marriage is over you are just trying to hang on to what it use to be not what it is now. I have been done this road and you are not doing yourself or your kids any good trying to hang on, let go and use that strangth to rebuild your life with your kids. I know it is a bad time but anytime is a bad time to end a marraige.

[2ndyrgal]

Speaking from experience, dealing with someone that has chronic depression is very, very difficult. And if that person will not seek help for themselves, it is almost impossible. And it wont matter what you do, say, don't do or say, give up or don't give up, it will not change without some sort of therapy, either psychiatric or a minimum, medication from his physician. If he doesn't self medicate with alcohol or some other drug it would be surprising.

What I will tell you is that you said that your son's were upset over having to possibly give up their pets, not that their father was on his way out the door. That is your tell right there. It does not sound like you have a marriage at this point, it sounds like you are sharing a house with the man that sired your children, and that man is being selfish and controling.

Also from experience, do these things first. Get ahold of all the records and money and valuables that you can. DO NOT BE NICE, THIS IS FOR YOUR CHILDREN. If you are nice to your husband, you will regret it because you and your children with both suffer. You will not be able to salvage your marriage, what you do salvage, will be so you can raise your sons to be the young men you would like them to be. Your husband is already not playing nice, please do not be one of those sappy, emotional females that "just knows he'll be fair". He is already demonstrating just how far he will go, consider this the warning shot fired across your bow, hoist the flag, kick him out, change the locks, clear out any joint accounts you have ( if it is a lot of money, you may want to consider putting it in an escrow account with your attorney until things are sorted out in court. Get the best most vicious attorney you can find, pay him well and let him fight the battles.

Do not blame your husband, while it is his choice not to seek treatment, it sounds as if he truly is not in control of his behavior. Speak as kindly as possible of him to your children and allow him as much time with them as he and they require as long as you do not believe they are in danger. His ultimatum is the disposal of your pets, yours should be that he seek immediate mental heath therapy, or the dogs will no longer his concern as you will not be sharing the same home any longer. It would be unlikely that a court would not grant you sufficient support to maintain a suitable home for the children, and unless you keep your horses at home, you should be able to make arrangements for them that are less costly. You may have to give up your horse or at least "share " with someone for a bit, that is just the price of being dependent, if you are, the "perks" may not be doable once your "independence" is gained.

Whatever the options, you must do what is best for yourself and your children, which is to get out of that environment. Or get him out, less stress on the children that way. Do not lie to them, but only tell them what they need to know,much like that "talk" we all have, only answer the questions they ask in the most simple of ways, and don't elaborate.

I'm sure that this won't help the bottomless pit that is your stomach and heart right now, but doing the things that you must do right now, will help you feel less helpless and more in control. Good luck.

[dappy]

You're getting some great advice here from a lot of folks. The one thing that strikes me is -- this is not about the horses or dogs. This is about control. If you give up your pets, next it will be giving up something else...until there is nothing left for you. You love your critters -- keep them.

[Appassionato]

Piece of advice from a child of parents that should have been divorced: they know and they feel the tension. If you are unhappy, get out. And not saying you have, but never ever ever EVER when they ask why you two stayed together as long as y'all did (and they WILL ask when older, or at least comment about it), don't dare say it was for them. In their mind, it places blame on them.

I pretty much agree with others here on their speculations. This isn't about the horses. The horses are just convenient to blame his problems on. I too dealt with a man who was depressive. It WILL affect you too. I swear it's a communicable disease, depression, when it's not treated.

Wishing you the best, and hope you can understand that everyone is truly here to give you good advice and cares about other COTHers!

[Lucassb]

Today he took away my car (which is owned by his business), but I still have a pick up truck which is luckily in my name.
(snip) I'm even willing to sell one of the horses. To give the other up would break my heart. He's my once in a lifetime horse.

Today he took your car. Previously, he made you scale back your business. Now he wants you to get rid of your children's pets and your beloved horses.

Honey, I am really, truly sorry but selling one of your horses isn't going to make a d*mn bit of difference to this man... there will always be something else you need to give up.

I really, really hope you can get some counseling for yourself and your kids to help you all deal with this.

Oh... and one more word of advice. If and when he comes home... you should be set up in the guest bedroom. Start quietly demonstrating that that kind of nasty behavior is not going to be tolerated. Make sure he knows that the domineering crap is not going lead to begging and pleading on your part, and refusing to treat you as a respected wife and partner means that some of the "normal routine" is going to change. Good luck.

[FlashGordon]

I am SO sorry you and your kids are going through this. And this time of year is so difficult too.

Sounds like he's given you an ultimatum he knows you can't/won't fulfill. As if he is looking for an out. Selling the horses, getting rid of the dogs, etc. will only satisfy him temporarily anyway.

I am not sure this is the advice you are going to want, but I'm going to throw it out there. My parents had a very rocky marriage from the start but stayed together "for the kids." Things with them finally settled down when I was about 19, and we all thought they were through the worst of things and on to a better life together. When I was 23, my dad suddenly left my mom out of the blue one day. The turmoil it has caused is just absolutely unbelievable. I can't even describe it. Everyday my siblings and I say god we wish they had divorced when we were kids!

Not trying to air my dirty laundry here... guess I am just trying to say... that if your husband is severely depressed, and you are having serious marital problems, it may be better in the long run for your children AND yourself to move on from the relationship NOW.

Please, seek counseling for yourself and your children. Get your own finances in order. And, I'd find an attorney to at least give you a heads-up on what you are entitled to. You should be able to stay in your house and he would be financially responsible for your kids AND you. I suppose it depends on the state, but after 18 years you will certainly be entitled to some kind of support.

Hang in there my dear.

[FlashGordon]

Oh, rats.

You are correct that the law will protect you to some extent, but it is very important to get a good attorney at the outset (yes, possibly before you have made any permanent decisions.) You need a good accounting of your joint assets, particularly with respect to that business he could just liquidate. Copies of old tax records, loan documents, bank statements etc are all important. You can always get copies of these things if the originals are "missing," ... but you have to know they exist first. Make it a priority to find out where all the "stuff" is.



This is SO, SO important. You MUST get all the necessary documents to your attorney ASAP so they can track the $$. My father shuffled all sorts of thinsg around, liquidated his business, etc.. My mother as a result is pretty darn broke at 60 years old. She will likely be moving in with us somewhere down the road.

[Trakehner]

You deserve better.
Your children deserve better.
It will only get worse.
It will only get much worse.

Gather your friends and loved ones around you and go on.

So sad to hear about your situation.

Good luck.

[Huntertwo]

This has nothing to do with horses, dogs or being in control. He is a mentally ill person who will continue to be so if he won't take his medications. He may not even feel he is ill. That is why many stop the meds.

Depression occurs mainly around the holidays and with the shortening days.

Do you board your horses or keep them at home? This can pose another problem. If you leave, could you bring your horses and dog somewhere for safe keeping?
This sounds like something that could easily escalate to violence unless you leave. As another poster said, get to the bank ASAP before he withdraws everything. And find safe housing for you and your children.


Here is a good tip I've heard that every married or involved woman should do. Open up your own bank account and put a little bit in each week. You never know when you'll be in a situation and need to get out quickly.

God Bless..

[gray17htb]

Today my husband of 18 years told me that unless I sold my two horses, gave away our two dogs and started doing things that he wanted, he wanted a divorce and was leaving that night.

My two children (ages 8 and 12) are devastated. I'm pretty darn upset with him too. He says that he's going to give me a list of things that I have to do to make the marriage work or he's out of here.

My husband has a history of depression but will not take anti-depressants or seek medical advice. He's a pilot and afraid that he will lose his license. The last few months I've felt that he's slipping into a depression. He's also been highly controlling and suspicious of me, even accusing me of having an affaire (which I'm not).

He's told me that he will support the children but not me; I guess he figures that asking me to sell my horses (one of which I've owned for more than 10 years) is the way he's going to punish me and that he will achieve this goal either way. Yes, I know that divorce laws will protect me up to a point, but he has his own business and I wouldn't put it past him to liquidate it and claim that he has only enough assets to pay child support. He says this is my fault for being too independent and selfish :cry: .

I know that the holidays are a bad time for him, and that winter is hard, too. But my kids are sobbing about losing their pets and I really, really do not want to sell my horses.

I have my own business, but at his request, scaled it back several years ago so that I would be in a more supportive role. At this point, I would be unable to support myself on what I make, although over time I could probably expand it again.

I know others on this board have been in marraiges where horses are an issue. How did you'all handle it? Especially when children are involved.

If my kids were older, I'd probably just end it now, but I'm not sure that I can do that to them, especially my younger one.

Advice please :confused: and :mad: and :cry:

First I would like to say that I am sorry for what you are going through and what you will be going through. I am a private investigator and this is a scenario that comes to me on a daily basis. Based on experience I feel that I can offer some valid advice. First, get a good lawyer. Don't keep pitying him because he has depression, he has had plenty of time to try to make things better. He knows that you won't get rid of all the animals, keep that in mind. It's just an excuse. It will just make things easier to justify when he does what ever he is gonna do. Get your finances in order immediately and worry about yourself and your children ONLY. That is who you are responsible for. Don't let his depression cloud your thinking. Hire a P.I. immediately and have him followed. Consult with your lawyer if you need a reference. I'll bet money that he's not on the straight and narrow. Good luck.

[SLW]

I'm so sorry this has happened to you and your children. You've been offered excellent advice about protecting your assets and future.

As for your children, have them keep a diary/journal starting right now. A place where they can vent, question and shout safely. It becomes a starting point for them and a place to unwind during what will be difficult times. If you have the time it wouldnt hurt to jot down your own ideas too.

Hugs to you and you work through this storm. You will survive this and come out okay.

[Platinum Equestrian]

I'm so sorry, especially at this time of the year. I don't have any advice really, just regarding his depression and issues... if he won't help himself, no one else can help him. Protect yourself, your children, and your animals. Hugs...

[ShortStirrupMom]

You poor thing - my heart goes out to you.

HungarianHippo gave great advice. Get copies of any and ALL documents that you can NOW - before he leaves. You never know what may "disappear".

If you give away your dogs and sell your horses - it is not going to resolve anything. This is a controlling individual who is pushing you to accommodate what he wants - regardless of yours or your children's feelings. You will only resent him and he will move on to something else which makes him feel as though he is in control.

Let him go - you are so much better off without him. If he can be this cruel about making you choose him or the animals (and thus hurting your children) I can only assume that your marriage is very unhappy regardless of whether animals are involved or not. Your children, in the long run, will do much better without the tension that I feel probably exists.

My heart goes out to you - but stay strong.

[King's Ransom]

I just wanted to add (((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))) for you tonight. You and your family will be in my prayers. It's hard. But you can do this. Use your head.

And why might he have targeted the horses? I did not "find" horses until after my divorce. But since I did, I can understand why someone like my ex-husband would be very jealous, and even threatened by them. My old boy, King, showed me what it meant to be loved, respected and valued -- in ways that I had either never known, or had forgotten soooo long ago. My favorite thing to remember about him, which always makes me tear-up, is that when I fell -- King never laughed at me or ridiculed me or tried to tell me it was my own darn fault for being so clumsy (which in fact, it was). Nope. He just did the most amazing thing. When I fell -- he came back for me! And then, we just tried it again.

Sounds like your husband is the kind of man who could be very threatened by that sort of behavior. And it shouldn't be hard for you to figure out which one deserves your loyalty! :no:

Take care, and by all means, please do keep us informed. I am praying that all goes well when he comes back tonight.

[notmefornow]

The strangest thing is that he was happy and relaxed with me just on Friday. It's the sudden shift of moods that makes me crazy.

Unfortunately, this is not the first time he's threatened to leave. When we saw a counselor before, the professional advised me that this was a ploy. He said that next time I should just tell him to send me a postcard when he got where he wanted to be.

I just wish that I could see the man that I married and not this person who has turned so bitter and resentful. We had many happy years together until he decided to have a big corporate career and decided that I wasn't on board to be the correct corporate wife (which he defines as being thin, focused on the husband's needs and compliant). He'd like to blame the failure on his corporate career on the fact that I didn't fall in line; however, in my business I deal quite successfully with corporate executives and haven't found that any of them find me unpresentable or think I behave in an inappropriate way.

I'm not convinced that getting rid of the horses would make him happy in the long run. He's unhappy with where he is in his life (from a career perspective -- he started a business he doesn't now like -- and having lost money in the stock market several years ago). When he's honest he tells me that he doesn't like himself much right now, but he won't do anything that *I* think might be reasonable like seeing a counselor. He's convinced that if he can change everything about his life he'll feel better.

For the person who asked, he's not a professional pilot. It's his hobby (and one that I've encouraged him to pursue). In fact, I think he wishes that his career was more exciting. He could grow his business but he's gotten to the point now where he doesn't even go into work until 10 or 11 in the morning . . .

[Janet]

I am very sorry for what you are going through. But this jumped out at me.My husband has a history of depression but will not take anti-depressants or seek medical advice. He's a pilot and afraid that he will lose his licence. The last few months I've felt that he's slipping into a depression. I lived for 10 years with a man in a similar situation- wouldn't seek treatment for fear of affecting his pilots license, and very controlling. (Though he never went as far as accusing me of having an affair, or ordering me to sell the horses.)

I left him because I couldn't take HIS lying about having an affair, and his wanting to control my life.

But some 10 years later, one February morning, he shot himself in the head.

First, get yourself and your kids out of his control.

But once you are free, then do anything you can to get him to get treatment.

[Eleanor]

Unfortunately, this is not the first time he's threatened to leave. When we saw a counselor before, the professional advised me that this was a ploy. He said that next time I should just tell him to send me a postcard when he got where he wanted to be.

This is something I would have done. When I kicked my ex out I told him that he can just let me know where to send his mail.

I just wish that I could see the man that I married and not this person who has turned so bitter and resentful. We had many happy years together until he decided to have a big corporate career and decided that I wasn't on board to be the correct corporate wife (which he defines as being thin, focused on the husband's needs and compliant). He'd like to blame the failure on his corporate career on the fact that I didn't fall in line; however, in my business I deal quite successfully with corporate executives and haven't found that any of them find me unpresentable or think I behave in an inappropriate way.


This made think again that he has someone on the said. I only say this because this is one of the many reasons that my ex became my ex. I have been there and I know all the signs, so girl when I say I think he is running around on you I am so sure of it.

[Lucassb]

www.divorcesource.com

www.custodysource.com

There is all sorts of information on there that you might find useful. Some things seem like such common sense except you don't necessarily think of them at the time you need to...

Hope you take the counselor's advice and tell him to send that postcard.

[Chanter]

What everyone else has said! It is very critical to get ahold of copies of those financial records ASAP!!! When finding those financial records do absolutely what ever you have to to get ahold of them! No guilt in how you obtain them, as your life & your children's lives very much depend upon them. You need a good account, along with an atty.

Be STRONG & God bless you.


{{{HUGS}}}
CHANTER

[lark_b]

There is an amazing amount of information and opinion in this thread. Much of it is very good and worth paying attention to, but a couple of things I would like to address.

To the people who think she should do whatever it takes and forget about being nice, this is very dangerous advice. If this guy can make ANY sort of argument that she is trying to poison her kids against him or trying to keep him from them or being able to support himself, it will come back to bite HER in the butt during the divorce. Divorce has changed a lot in the last five years, and the current trend is to favor the rights of the father. Even saying he's abusive can work against her, because the court can interpret that as her trying to keep him away from the kids. It DOES happen. Be very, very careful, and be VERY nice. Starting right now, document every action you take, every action he takes, and everything you say to each other. Make copies of EVERYTHING and keep them in a safe deposit box. Who's to say he won't steal your car keys, and then anything you keep in there he has access to as well?

Stop telling your kids about what is going on in your relationship with their father. First of all, you need to maintain your parental boundaries, but more importantly right now, it can again be used against you--he can claim you're trying to poison them against him. Say nothing but kind things about him to them, or nothing at all. Tell them that you need to keep what is going on between you and their father between you and their father, to keep them from being hurt by what's happening. If they ask questions that corner you, don't be shy in saying that you just can't answer their questions right now. And most importantly, do not make ANY promises. Don't say that you will not let the animals get taken away, because you don't know that's true. Don't tell them they can stay in the house, or anything else. It's better to honestly say you don't know than to make a promise you have to break later. Be honest, tell them that's why you won't make a promise.

Unfortunately, in situations like yours especially (where you don't have the means to support yourself and the kids), you do end up having to get rid of the animals. Luckily for you, it seems you have a little leeway in figuring out what to do. Do not waste this time and drag your feet. Think ahead and plan ahead. Line up temporary homes for all the animals now... even if you don't use them, knowing they are there will help. The horses might be harder than the dogs, but finding someone to take them on for the cost of their board and care in exchange for being able to ride them is possible. That way, you don't have to sell them. But be aware that in the settlement you might be forced to sell them anyway, in order to split the assets. Your husband sounds like the kind of guy that would force this issue out of spite, so be prepared. If you can, find someone you REALLY trust (a friend for years?) and sell them to that person for $1 so that he can't use them to hurt you anymore. Ask the lawyer you will be retaining ASAP about all this, and how to ENSURE that the horses don't slip away from you for good.

In short, protect yourself, but don't attack him because you will pay for it later.

[kellyb]

You deserve better.
Your children deserve better.
It will only get worse.
It will only get much worse.

Gather your friends and loved ones around you and go on.

So sad to hear about your situation.

Good luck.

That is pretty much what I was thinking :( Good luck.

[RainyDayRide]

I have my own business, but at his request, scaled it back several years ago so that I would be in a more supportive role. At this point, I would be unable to support myself on what I make, although over time I could probably expand it again.


So earlier attempts to appease him haven't worked ... no way meeting his demands now would either.

Another "make a life for yourself and your kids (and pets)" vote. It may be difficult initially, but so much better long term.

[Alter of the Moose]

Many years ago I had a boyfriend that told me, "Me or the horse." I kept the horse & he went on down the road. He later tried murder/suicide on me (us). He did manage to kill himself & there is no medical reason why I am still alive, as I literally should be dead too with that hideous act he pulled on me.

If you want my opinion, let your husband go. For your own safety & the safety of the children. Then never ever fully trust him again, as he probably will always be deeply pissed off inside that he did not get away with controlling you. He one day may feel the only way he truly can control you is to kill you.

STAY SAFE

PS: I still have that horse!

[EqTrainer]

I would help him pack.

[darkmoonlady]

Depression doesn't make you a control freak. My sister is married to a man a lot like that. He seems to need her anytime anyone else wants her attention. In your case it is your horses, your pets and in the end your children. I'm not kidding, once the horses and the pets are gone he'll begin to question the time you spend with your kids. Sadly in my family there have been too many controlling men and even the kids became an issue. Take the steps you need to, get them done fast and make sure that that if he displays any odd behavior you have a place to go.

[Posting Trot]

When you wrote about your husband wanting to have the corporate career and needing the "perfect corporate wife" it reminded me of my sister and her husband.

He was very controlling (although never suffered from depression as far as I know), and everything had to be done his way. He got her to give up her job, to give up her hobby (painting), and to give up many of her friends (according to him they were too shallow or too lower-class or too something).

There was always something wrong as far as he was concerned. And, as far as he was concerned, my sister was the reason something was wrong. And he was a yeller. He never (again as far as I know) physically abused my sister, but he certainly verbally abused her.

She stayed with him for 10 long years. No kids, thankfully. He threatened to leave several times, and did drive off a couple of times. She always took him back until she (finally) got tired of it.

Protect yourself and your kids. Talk to a lawyer (a good one, who practices divorce law) tomorrow. Be candid with the lawyer about what you want, what you're afraid of, what you know about his and your assets and rights, and what you don't know.

Good luck.

I just wanted to add that my sister's husband was a pilot--a hobbyist-- as well.

[oleary157]

As a male, I would NEVER treat someone like this let alone make a list of demands. Usually I side with men, but you need to kick his a$$ out. Not only will this be hard on you, but it'll be harder on your children if you keep him around. If he has made you scale back your job to accomidate him as well as tell you to sell your horses (which I assume are your passion)...well that's just unacceptable. He needs to go bye bye and if anything serious happens, I'd suggest taking this to the authorities.

So as always:


Horses:yes: :D

[onelanerode]

I've only been married for a little more than two months, so take what I say with a wheelbarrow of salt.

It really sucks when an adult won't be responsible in terms of his health -- mentally and physically. There are a lot of options out there for depression -- therapy, drugs, herbs, etc. It's his responsibility to do the best he can to be a healthy partner.

From what I've seen in my relationship, problems are very rarely caused by just one person. It's usually both of us contributing in different ways to whatever the issue is. Now, one person may have a lot more going on than the other, but I can't think of anything that's come up that's been solely one person's fault, so to speak. He's got a list of stuff he wants you to work on huh? Where's the list of what he's going to work on? Nobody's perfect.

Lots of red flags here. You be careful and take care of you and your kids and your horses. They depend on you; he's an adult and in the end he's responsible for his own life. He wants to leave? Let him go. Some folks you're better off without.

Good luck.

[YankeeLawyer]

There is an amazing amount of information and opinion in this thread. Much of it is very good and worth paying attention to, but a couple of things I would like to address.

To the people who think she should do whatever it takes and forget about being nice, this is very dangerous advice. If this guy can make ANY sort of argument that she is trying to poison her kids against him or trying to keep him from them or being able to support himself, it will come back to bite HER in the butt during the divorce. Divorce has changed a lot in the last five years, and the current trend is to favor the rights of the father. Even saying he's abusive can work against her, because the court can interpret that as her trying to keep him away from the kids. It DOES happen. Be very, very careful, and be VERY nice. Starting right now, document every action you take, every action he takes, and everything you say to each other. Make copies of EVERYTHING and keep them in a safe deposit box. Who's to say he won't steal your car keys, and then anything you keep in there he has access to as well?

Stop telling your kids about what is going on in your relationship with their father. First of all, you need to maintain your parental boundaries, but more importantly right now, it can again be used against you--he can claim you're trying to poison them against him. Say nothing but kind things about him to them, or nothing at all. Tell them that you need to keep what is going on between you and their father between you and their father, to keep them from being hurt by what's happening. If they ask questions that corner you, don't be shy in saying that you just can't answer their questions right now. And most importantly, do not make ANY promises. Don't say that you will not let the animals get taken away, because you don't know that's true. Don't tell them they can stay in the house, or anything else. It's better to honestly say you don't know than to make a promise you have to break later. Be honest, tell them that's why you won't make a promise. .........


In short, protect yourself, but don't attack him because you will pay for it later.

Respectfully, I am not sure I agree with that assessment of courts' views regarding favoring fathers. For one thing, divorce law varies widely from state to state. For another, in many states, even in those where the law as written would punish a parent that withholds visitation or engages in parental alienation (poisoning the kids against the other parent), courts frequently will not enforce these laws against an ill-behaving mother. Not to say you should not be aware of the possibility, and act accordingly, but as a practical matter many, many courts still hold the view that a mother could not possibly do anything to harm her own kids.

However, I do agree with the bottom line in this post, which is do not put your kids in the middle of this and avoid saying negative things to them about their dad. Divorce terminates a marriage; it should not terminate parenting. So do your best to be strong and protect your kids from that kind of thing, particularly since you are most likely the more rational parent from your description of the situation. Divorce is confusing enough for kids; they need their parents' reassurance that it is not about them.

Regarding the speculation that he is having an affair, I really think that is unfounded. I guess anything is possible but the depression alone could explain his conduct. People that are in pain can behave badly sometimes, because they are so frustrated with themselves. And the less control they feel in their own lives, the more they try to control everything and everyone around them.

I am really sorry you are going through this. If he has any intention to try to work things out, imo it has to come from both sides, and I think he would still make an effort to work on things if you refuse to give up your horses and dogs. Unless these are a source of major financial strain on the family, I cannot see how selling them would alleviate what he views to be the problem. How would it make him happy to see you sad? It is nonsensical. There is no way I would agree to those terms.

[TheElephant]

Call his bluff. This is imperative.

You see, I was once rather similar to your husband - clingy, suspicious of my wife, resentful of things in her life that didn't include me. I'm not proud to admit that ours was an abusive relationship.

After undergoing counseling, we're enjoying a much happier and healthier relationship - counseling that started because my wife insisted on it rather than caving in and enabling my own unacceptable behaviors.

If you want to preserve your marriage, fight for it. Fight for it by standing up for a healthy relationship, not by tolerating the type of behavior you've described.

I hope your situation improves.

[laskiblue]

My specialty area of social psychology research is domestic violence. He is psychologically abusing you and your children through power and control tactics. His actions of trying to force you and your children to give up beloved animal companions, making you scale back your business, and taking away your car are typical of escalating forms of control and even violence. If you submit to his demands, the next set of demands are almost guaranteed to be even more extreme. Please take appropriate steps to protect yourself and your children through the legal system. Many hugs to you and your kids.

Laskiblue

[Calena]

Been there, done this. It really SUCKS. What everyone else said. First, go into self-protect mode for you, the kids, and the animals. Second, this will become a battle of finances. Secure your finances asap and don't feel guilty.

Last, but maybe the part that is most important is to tell you, you won't miss him. That was the saddest part of all for me. I stayed married for almost 18 years and didn't realize the hell I was in until he was out of my life. I missed everything about my former life but him. I have never regretted the day I called it quits and it would never have gotten better. After that long, everything that could be done had been done and it still wasn't working.

His happiness, his success or failure, is his responsibility, not yours. You cannot make him happy or whole, anymore than he could do that for you. He isn't caring for you or your children, so you have to do that yourself.

I had friends at my barn guarding my horse after I left and lo and behold, who do you think showed up? Those good people drove him off the property.

If he's already gone, change the locks, have a cry and enjoy the peace. It will get better.

God bless you and BIG jingles for you and the kids.

[walkinon]

The strangest thing is that he was happy and relaxed with me just on Friday. It's the sudden shift of moods that makes me crazy.


That's the depression. It's an illness. I speak from experience. And without treatment of some kind, it can have deadly consequences.

I am sorry that you are going through this, both you and your kids, but the most important thing for you to do right now is to get you and your children to safety. He sounds like he is jealous. Jealous of your career, business (why else would he cut you back so he can seem more important). Jealous of your horses. What’s next? Being jealous over the kids? What will happen if the thinks you need to be rid of them? Get to safety. He’s unstable. He needs help. You can't force it on him but you can get your family to safety.

All of you will be in my thoughts and prayers.

[elektra949]

Even if you meet his "list of demands" odds are good it will never be enough. Once you complete his list, he will make a new one. Pretty soon, you and your children will be doomed to a life of "you're not good enough here's what you have to do to change". Take your children, be the best mother you can (to them and your furbabies) and expand your business again, and move on. You will be better off in the long run, without someone trying to own you.

[Weatherford]

Don't forget to tell your lawyer that you cut back on your business at your husband's request. That lost income should be considered in calculating/determining alimony.

Also, if the dogs are your KIDS - do not get rid of them! Be sure your husband KNOWS they are the kids' ! During this kind of situation, the kids NEED their animals!!

[TripleRipple]

Depression, sudden shifts of moods. Paranoid about you having affairs when you are not. Acts controlling about what you get to do/not do with your life. Has threatened to leave before, and a mental health professional obviously already gave him a diagnosis (calling his actions ploys, and telling you to the postcard line - if you don't mind, what was the official diagnosis?).

Despite all this, which has been going on for awhile, and sounds like it is escalating, your dh won't get help because he'll lose his pilot's license. Instead, you are expected to perform worthless act after worthless act, like giving up your horses and dogs, simply because he has some mental health issues for which he will not seek treatment.

He needs treatment. If he won't get it, you need to protect yourself and your children. The absurdity of your situation is that he won't give up his pilot's license to save your marriage. However, he demands you give up all sorts of things to save it (people often fight over horses, but the dogs?). He is NOT interested in changing everything about his life, if he were, he would do it. Instead, he is demanding YOU make changes that he is too mentally ill to do at the moment. That won't fix what ails him in the slightest. He may be uncapable of making changes or healing himself at the moment.

He is bored, but has no interest in growing his biz, and he won't get up until 10 or 11? He is depressed, and could be bi-polar for all you mention his mood shifts. You know this won't get better on its own. If you want to stay with him and your marriage, he has to get some help for whatever is going down with him. Look, from what you are stating, I feel badly for him having problems, and for you having to be there for someone who can't appreciate it. But your kids come first.

[King's Ransom]

I am sure your lawyer will tell you this, but be careful about attributing too much of this to his apparent "depression." If he can convince a judge that he is impaired because of a mental illness ... ack! ... you could owe HIM spousal support!!! Just be careful about making too much of a big deal about him being depressed!

[Boston Chicken]

First call - to your lawyer.
Second call - to him. No woman (or man) should have to meet any list of demands to save a marriage.

Many, many hugs coming your way

[Leisa]

So sorry you are going through this. Nobody ever gets married with the plan of getting divorced. We all think of a cute house with the white picket fence, a dog running in the yard and a horse calling to you from the back.

Take it from someone who has been there.... it is a lot better for the kids to live in peace than to live in chaos. I divorced Mr. It's-all-about-me when my daughter was 3. It was hard as hell and I had to make some sacrifices. Was it worth it? YES! I had to send my horse to live with friends for a bit, but once I got on my feet, it was FULL STEAM AHEAD!

My daughter is coming up on 9 and still gets weepy when she can't see her dad (long story... but he uses her like the teenage boy who puts a puppy in the back of his pick-up truck so the girls can notice him..."Oh, what a cute little girl! You are SUCH a good dad to take her to McDonald's") GAG!

Right now you are reeling from the blow! It will get better, but right now you have to look out for yourself and your children. Please stay safe and keep the kids out of it as much as possible. Get copies of all the financials and see an attorney regardless of what you think your future holds. It is much better to be prepared than to be blindsided. This man doesn't seem to be wanting a partner; he is looking for a puppet. Not healthy. JMHO

[millwrightmomma]

You have been given alot of good advice, take some of it.
Do not get rid of the dogs and horses.
Tell him to see his doctor, and take his meds, and a marraige councellor together/separately, and if he refuses, when he goes to work, change the locks and put his travel bag with clothes outside.
Not only is he controlling, he is suffering quiet likely from mental illness.
You cannot change that.
Call a lawyer tomorrow, and copy all financial statements, etc.
If the kids are on his passport, take the passport and put it in a safety deposit box, along with your marraige certificate, your will, you mortgage, and the kids pasports if they have them. Also their health and medical records. Put as much money aside as you can get your hands on, clean out the accounts tomorrow, close them, and open your own.
I have seen first hand one spouse financally trying to destroy the other.

If he gets the boot to the curb, immediately get a restraining order.

Jingles going your way, be tough and be strong, the kids need one sane parent.

[onthebit]

Notmefornow, i have been through a similar situation a few years ago, but without kids involved. This board was wonderful in their support.

My ex-husband also had depression issues and even briefly (less than a month) took medication for it. He came home one night and announced he was leaving, he hated me, hated the horses, and basically that I was the cause of all things bad in the world. I won't go into all that I stood by him through but suffice it to say I disagreed. I was very successful in the business world with my recruiting company wining awards and getting a lot of press while he struggled to keep his small company above water (I covered his payroll multiple times). I know this really bothered him.

As it so turns out he was having an affair and I also discovered some other things that were going on that I won't type out.

He told me his main goal in the divorce would be to make me lose my horses. He didn't succeed and I've since re-married to a wonderful guy. It seemed impossible at the time but now it really just seems like a distant, bad memory.

Getting rid of the horses will never be enough, the trust issues will always be there and I would bet big money that there is a major deception occuring on his part that you have not yet discovered.

HUGE HUGS and PM me if you want to talk further.

[jilltx]

Thanks to everyone for the words of support. They really help.

I stopped him from leaving today because I didn't want him to disappear on the kids. They have known for some time that their father suffers from depression and I have been trying to reinforce that this is not their fault. My daughter asked why taking away the things they love will make him feel better and I don't really have an answer for this.

I guess I hate the fact that he's trying to make me the bad guy in all of this. Over the years that we've been together I have tried hard to be supportive. I know he resents the time I spend riding and while he might not say so, I've tried hard to always make time for him. He is not without fault in this situation.

Today he took away my car (which is owned by his business), but I still have a pick up truck which is luckily in my name. I have my own bank account for my business, so my immediate needs are covered. I also can count on my own family for emotional support and for financial support if it comes to that. I've asked a friend who was divorced recently to recommend a lawyer. I just wish that it hadn't come to this.

He left about an hour ago to go out. I assume he's coming back; earlier he packed his bags but he didn't take them. He said that nothing had changed but I'm still reeling from the day -- I'm not sure what could have changed so soon.

I like the idea of taking the dogs to a friend's. That would at least give us some breathing room. I'm even willing to sell one of the horses. To give the other up would break my heart. He's my once in a lifetime horse.

...and he if really cared about being a husband and father...he would understand this and not make ridiculous ultimatums. Sounds to me like he's trying to make ALL of you suffer by manipulating you into thinking that meeting his demands will "fix" the problem.

I'm truly sorry for you and for your children. My god. If we can send ONE man to the moon, why can't we send them all there? Hell, they'd probably all VOLUNTEER to go! Sorry. Trying to provide a little levity during your crisis. Humor is my way of dealing.

[bryn]

Hungarian Hippo is a very very wise person. I wish I had known her when I was having the same trouble you are having. I quit my job, then I scaled back on the number of pets, and guess what he still drove down the driveway. . . AFTER he had moved all our savings and retirement AND made sure I had no copies of any important documents. While I waited around thinking he surely would swing out of his depression and come back he stopped supporting us. My advice do exactly what HungarianHippo suggests:

She said:

"What I would do, in this order:

Tell him you need more time to think about this. Get him to postpone any final decisions for 1-2 days.
Make copies of every important financial document you have on file. Get bank statements, copies of mortgages, everything.
Consult a lawyer. Nothing in your post indicates that you still want to fight to save this marriage, so I'm going on the assumption that you've got one foot out the door.
Then, based on lawyers advice, have the discussion with hubby where you say you will not sell the pets and you're prepared for him to follow up on his ultimatum of leaving you.
However, scaling back on finances is often a reality no matter what the outcome of a divorce, so I would look to see if there's someway I could keep both horses less expensively (pasture board? half lease? etc)."

You will be in my thoughts and prayers. And know you will be JUST FINE. There is life after husbands!

[TheJenners]

Get thee to an ATM, withdraw money as was suggested. For all you know, that's what he's out doing. Move yourself out of the bedroom; if you don't have a guest room then bunk on the couch if possible. Do not move into the kids' rooms, that drags them more in the middle than they already are. This is NOT their concern, especially at those ages. If you have a weapon of some kind, keep it close. Depressed folks can do some of the most dangerous implusive things imaginable.

Protect yourself. Protect your children. Protect your assets. Protect your animals and your belongings. In that order. Don't turn your back on him physically, mentally or financially.

[AstonMartin]

Ok, so i'm not quite a 'child' anymore but I do come from a now-broken home.

My parents tried to play 'happy families' for quite a few years. To be honest, we were older so there was no 'was it our fault questions'. But, that having been said, I think that the best approach is to do what will make you happy.

I wish that my parents had just made a clean break like another poster said. This makes it easier to understand, easier to move on. AND! My parents sepparate are happier than they were when they were together. So if that is your situation then I think the children will understand. Be positive, loving, and supportive. Be honest, and just love them. I think that all this will be easier if you dont have someone forcing them and yourself to give up those things that they love.

Love is about compromise. If you are at a stage where that is not an option, then this is not healthy. This is not love.

I wish you all the strength and bravery it will take to get through this

[lark_b]

I just have one more thing to add that the previous poster reminded me of.

Your kids obviously know that something is wrong and I have already said to not let them get involved in the middle of it in order to maintain your boundaries and also for the divorce, but be careful not to go the other way. That is to say, don't tell them everything is ok when it isn't. It is REALLY tough on kids and messes them up in a serious way when mom and dad pretend to be 100% normal and then BOOM, they're divorced. It really screws with your ability to trust people, you know? So you kind of have to walk the line, they have to know what's happening and that there are problems and what the possibilities are, just not become involved as pawns.

[physical.energy]

Some good advice here from the posters!!!!
1. Look at this as your oportunity to move forward to a wonderful fullfilling life that you will never have with him. Let him go with love and peace and move toward a more positive life for you and your children.
2 Kids are resiliant(sp) they bounce back but to take their pet away is something that they will never understand and or forgive. It makes no sense so they will never have the ability to understand the demand.
3. Your husband is in a negative downward spiral and you can't get caught up in his trip. Once he gives you the list and you comply he will find other things to manipulate you with.
Get out now, get money and tell him he must leave and seek an atty first thing in the am.....
Good Luck and don't let it tip your world too much. We girls are strong creatures and when pushed into a corner have an amazing ability to withstand and rise above alot of BS. Especially with kids and animals. Your horses will give you your peace so keep them. Your kids will understand later why you made the choice to let dad go to find his own happiness.
Love and huggs from california

[goeslikestink]

depression cor dont i know that one
1st i will explan my feeling later

me if i was you -- look matey you have your own bisiness 2 kids and neddys
he jeaslous of yoou becuase you a strong woman
so go get more on your bisness side of life and live you life how you want to nad not how he wants to thats plain selfish and abusive not pysical but metal abuse becuase you have done exactly what he says -- ie busisness reduction etc

as for the depression thats an excuse and a habit --

my others halfs mother suffered all her life from a depressive hubby until he diedi knwo she loved him dearly but she gave up so many things and he never worked she had to put my hubby with rellys to be looked after when ababy becuase she had to go out to work to support all three, when my hubby was old enough to drive he had to pick up and drop off his dad to places like relatatives so the dad was never on his own as he was depressed all the time -- it becomes an evil becuase the so pesimistic
and when the kids were born it was nothing but complain complain complain
and when my kids were born it was a nightmare
depression or lack of a life holds hard on those that want to do things in life but a rerestricted to becuase they dont see the same point of view
everything you do or say is against what they feel and is very very neagtive

nowe i am a nan and my duaghter leaves her kid in the care of my mother law becuase she moved dwon late when my kids were 4 and 7 she missed all there growing up i mean they did visit but she missed alot of those vital early years becuase of her hubbys deperssion

now debs my duaghter leaves her baby micky when working in the care of my mother in law -- and this is the 1st time shes actullay had a baby to look after and do thigns with at 74 she has a new lease in life and abusolutely loves it shes fit and healthy and has all her marbles
and to be honest shes says it herself since his death altho she loved him
she missed out on heaps of stuff due to restriction

peopple dont under stand the depressive person
they get wound up easily and they take it out on those that are closes to them i cant put inot words what my other half and me and his mum have suffered over the years

but what ican put in one easy sentence
depressive self centered people can destroy you -- and your life if you let them becuase other half was so close to his mum and dad
but mainly to his mum i can tell yuo honestly its shear hard work

if i could live my life again that part i owuld of got rid off
its suffereing and to be honest kids can as with my son gary has traits
of his grandad obknockish ways -- one being self looked at

by that i mean it took him along time to get up and get the ump to do things by self -- hes not like debs thats outgoing and happy go lucky
gary thinks about things and the worse thing is he thinks about what __if -
as a negative and not as a posotive

so your kids will pick up on his depreesion later in life --

ME TO YOU - DO WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT BY SELF DONTY LET A DOMINANT PARTNER AS HE IS DOMINANT BECUASE YOU HAVE REDUCE YOUR BISNESS ETC -- RULE YOU AS A PERSON THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE HATE STRONGER PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY CANNOT CONTROL THEM


move on matey your strong enough to keep you and your family of kids and horses becuas eyou do it now-- so increase your bisness
and take hold of yuor life before you have nothing --becuase he will and does metally abuse your mind

[goeslikestink]

its mental abuse not pysical

look matey - if hes gone then change the locks on the house
and get things sorted

your kida are improtant they will cope better if he doesnt abuse you
by comming back and fort at will

then it makes the kids confused -- so change the locks
so you are in control of whome steps over the door way

as to the horses every body needs a past time
abit of space
for enjoyment -- change the locks on the gates if own horses kept on property and if not ta barn -- ie livery then dont have to go into details but make sure ther barn owner and barn amaner anyone of whome looks after your horses knows full well that hecannot come to take them
and that he has a restrict visiting order place by you via a lawyer

whiuch means he cannot see the kids with otu supeervision
becuase a depressive person can get deceitful
so make others aware as nessacry your situation so that nothing can be taken from you -- or gain access to you with out your permisson
this inclcudes schools

once my matey was going thorugh this she sold her horse to me for 10P
3 years later i sold it back for 10P

be a ware horses in some cases are classed as an asset in a court of law
if he wanted to get back at you this is the first way

[goeslikestink]

ps if you chose to go down that lline of devorse

i cant stress enough check with the lawyer on gifts and presents to a minor

horses are an asset but if it wasa gift or present then that might save them

as hes in a breech -- of contract as they were a gift

good luck and god bless xx

[bumknees]

I can not give any advice as I have never needed this sort but ((((( hugs to you and yours)))))),

[ESG]

I can't offer you advice, but it seems that his demands are just a way to dominate you and the relationship. After you get rid of the horses and other pets - what will his next demand be...get rid of the kids??? Sounds like a power play from a disturbed person. I'd opt with keeping the animals and letting the husband "regroup" or leave. JMO

Absolutely. This isn't about you, or what you have, or what you've done; this is about him. He's looking for a way to end the relationship without fault. He figures that if he makes a set of demands and you don't meet them, then he's absolved of any responsibility (and resultant guilt) for walking out.

I know - my ex did the same thing to me. Prick kept pushing and pushing, making more and more ridiculous demands for me to change, but refused to admit that he had things he needed to change, as well. I, like WarAdmiral, tried for years to accommodate. That only made him madder, as I was taking away his excuses to leave by doing what he wanted. When I finally said no, that's when he left. But I wasted so much time, and endured so much pain (including him cheating on me, and emotionally abusing me). Don't make the same mistake I did. :no:

And please don't excuse his behaviour by attributing it solely to his depression. That may be contributory, but it's not the real reason.

Also, not saying this to add to your pain, but I'd be willing to bet that there's another woman involved. Men rarely jump up and leave, without someone else to go to. Given the immediacy with which he expects you to comply with his bullshit "demands", I'd bet you next month's feed bill that he's got a standby. :mad:

{{{{{hugs}}}}} to you, girl. Take comfort in your sweet kids, and let them do the same for you. You have us here to vent to, if needed. And feel free to PT me any time. As you can see, I don't sleep. ;)

[ESG]

Get your finances in order immediately and worry about yourself and your children ONLY. That is who you are responsible for. Don't let his depression cloud your thinking. Hire a P.I. immediately and have him followed. Consult with your lawyer if you need a reference. I'll bet money that he's not on the straight and narrow. Good luck.

Really good advice. :yes:

[Duncan]

Sounds like he's the one that needs to go. How is it good for you or your kids if YOU are miserable? He probably won't ever be happy regardless of what you do.

Good luck. Hope everything works out for the best.

[mbamissaz]

I echo what everyone else here has said, and wanted to add for you to please be very careful around him right now. He sounds very unstable from what you describe and there is really no way to foresee what an unstable person is capable of when things don't happen the way they plan or want them to. Remember, depression can make one feel hopeless and he is choosing to not seek treatment for it, which can ultimately be downright dangerous for him and everyone (and thing) around him.

Please be careful. My thoughts and prayers are with you, your children and your animals.

[gully's pilot]

Good luck.

As someone who's fought through a serious depression herself (though believe me, I LIKE my therapist and my meds!) I want to add that being depressed does not by itself make a person controlling and abusive. In other words, don't let that explain all his behavior away. He's being abusive to you and your children. Get out, get yourselves safe; if he wants to change that'll be up to him.

[Reynard Ridge]

No advice, but I am thinking of you today - jingles, prayers, whatever makes you feel best are heading your way.

[Gnalli]

Okay, take a deep breath. See a lawyer and a counselor. Tomorrow.

As Dr. Phil says, kids would rather be FROM a broken family than live in one! (I am no fan of Dr. Phil, but on this point, I agree and bring it up only so that you will not subject yourself and your children to escalating emotional abuse for "their sake" ... none of you wants to be abused, so get that out of your head!)

Do you keep your horses at home, or do you board? Is there some temporary arrangement you could make with the horses (and the dogs) in order to buy time and at least a temporary truce? If you are not prepared to be single now, then you need to do whatever you can to buy some time in order to prepare yourself. Whether the marriage eventually works out, you never want to find yourself in this vulnerable spot again. If you can get past this crisis, then you can buy some time to re-build your business, re-arrange your finances and prepare yourself for the next potential onslaught.

Do you have joint accounts for investments and checking, etc? There is a strong possibility that he will drain one or more accounts before you have a chance to protect yourself. You need to have some money set aside somewhere that he can't get to. You can always put it back later, but right now you have to protect your flank. And it is NOT stealing if the money is in a joint account -- you both own it 100 percent. By the way, it is not stealing if he takes it all out, and leaves you with nothing, either. You have absolutely no legal recourse if he drains a joint account. So be careful and protect yourself and your kids.

You realize, of course, that his demands are unreasonable. But you may need to do SOMETHING to appease him in the short-term so that this can be worked out in the least-devastating manner possible. Perhaps the dogs could go to a friend or family member, or even a boarding kennel on a temporary basis. Same with the horses.

I am not saying you should give in. But I am saying that IF he is declaring war (and it sounds like he is), then you need to be very strategic. Winning battles (as in, saying something like I REFUSE to give up the animals) and losing the war (as in, becoming destitute overnight when he wipes out all of the joint accounts, moves out, and you cannot even pay the mortgage) is not smart. Like I said, take a deep breath. Put your emotions on hold (you can cry later) and use your head.

Good luck, sweetie. Things have a way of working out. This too, shall pass. One way or another.


I hate to see a marriage end, but I have to agree here. Protect yourself first. You may not have time, due to his time limits, but do what you have to do to buy that time. Something has tripped his trigger, and having lived with a mother who was a manic depressed person, I understand the he!! you are in right now. See if he will settle down and talk to you, tell you why he wants all of these demands met. I firmly believe in the husband being head of house but there comes a point where it ceases being a protective loving environment, and becomes an abusive domination power play. From what you said here about him thinking it is your fault for being too independent, it has gotten to that point. I personally would be mad and scared by turns. The ladies here have given you some good advice.

The bank I bank with has the option to open an account online. I would do so, and transfer enough funds into it to provide whatever cushion you can before you go to bed tonight since you don't know what he may do in the mean time.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Something else on the horse situation-do you have a friend that would do a "free lease" on them for a time being so that your hubby has time to calm down, and you can convince him to seek help. Maybe if you offer to not mess with the horses for a while (but still retain ownership) he will be ok, thinking that that would free up time for him? I don't know, just throwing ideas out there. I am in Cartersville, GA if you are close by and want to just have coffee and a friend to vent to. Let me know if I can help.

[HungarianHippo]

I just want to circle back to this because a couple people besides me have asked. If he's the one that told the kids their pets would have to go, then this should cement in your mind that he is not only deliberately hurting you, but also deliberately hurting the children. If that's the case, I would investigate getting them out of the house-- can a sister or other relative host a sleepover for a couple of days? Do you have a trusted friend in the area?
If you were the one that told them about the dogs: It was wrong to do, and you probably already feel badly about it. You get one free pass for a bad decision because the last couple days have rocked your world. But please, commit to yourself that it will be the only and LAST time you use the kids to get back at your husband.

[annikak]

the thing abt depression is- it usually creates someone that people don't recognize- either the depressed person or the spouse/SO. It CAN totally alter who you are- I believe this totally.

My DH is a pilot and his comments were this- a lot of pilots are depressed- there is a way to get around it- do NOT buy your meds thru a program, pay cash and they cannot be "traced". (from what I have heard, the anti-depression part of the pilots license is pretty stupid...who wants a depressed pilot anyway?)

I think flying is a lot like horses and sailing- it can consume and absorb all parts of a person. I think it attracts similar types- whatever they are. Like horses, its a passion. Passion is good- usually. Being a pilot, you have to be in control, aware, detail oriented. Seems as if he has lost a lot of control. I would think- and please know that I understand a lot of what you are going thru on many levels- he is seeking control Somewhere. Sad its you and you kids. He is miserable.

I almost sound like I am saying "Stay!" but I don't think its the right thing to do unless you can look deep inside yourself and say you want to try. This may just be the final bell for you- and that's fine if it is. But like Elephant said- well, there is the "other" side.

Follow the "walk softly and carry a big stick" approach and really think before you react. You will have the control then. If there is not another person already involved, he may then be able to take stock of how he feels/thinks and be able to respond more honestly.

I can echo what others say- I am married to the most amazing man ever, he is my 2nd husband, I am his 2nd wife, and I am so very glad that I divorced my 1st- hard as it was, there was so much happiness on the other side, I never would have known. Tears abounded, but the path, albeit rocky, has been more then worth it.

And echoing what HH said above, don't talk to the kids about their dad, unless they ask, and then, be fair, kind and supportive of all of them. You chose him to be their father, and they cannot feel bad about that. Being honest and supportive will win you out in the end- My parents were HORRID to each other, and its awful. 45 years later? Its STILL awful.

<<<hugs>>>>to you all- and if you are near me, I would be more then happy to horse/dog sit for you if needed until you can work things out. PM if needed.

[BeastieSlave]

I have never been in a situation like this, so I have no advice.

I have a couple observations though:

I think goeslikestink is right. He is self-centered, selfish, and jealous. I'm sorry he suffers from depression, but you shouldn't be punished because he won't seek help.

He has already made you scale back your business, demanded that you give away the dogs and sell the horses, and taken your car. Is there an end to the sacrifices you will have to make? I don't think so. Even if you sell the horses and give away the dogs, give up your business, and center your life around him, it will never be enough....

Look out for yourself and your children (and then your animals). He is not your responsibility.

Good luck! I'll be jingling for you.

[Gnalli]

One more thing and then I will hush. Keep this in your head and your heart:


THE MAN YOU MARRIED IS NOT WHO YOU ARE DIVORCING.THAT MAN HAS GONE AND LEFT AN EVIL TWIN WHO LOOKS LIKE HIM AND MAY ONCE IN A WHILE BE VERY SIMILIAR, BUT IT IS NOT HIM ANYMORE. It took me many years to realize this, after my divorce, and even after my marriage to my 2nd husband.

[IndysMom]

You've gotten really good advice so far. Listen to it.

Once the dust settles, you will be PLEASANTLY surprised by how much better you feel. Just like the weight of the world has been lifted off your shoulders.

Trust me, I know, I've been there-just like you described only without the kids. He never got any better no matter what I did. AND, for the 10 years AFTER our divorce, everything that went wrong in his life was STILL MY FAULT!

My second husband is not like that and I can't believe I put up with the first one for 13 years. Don't be stupid like me...

[suz]

first,i'm so sorry that you and your kids are going through this. second,there is tons of great advice here,sounds like most of the posters have learned the hard way,as i did and as you are now.
third,what finally got me to leave the abusing,cheating liar was when i realised with absolute horror that our nine year old son was becoming verbally abusive to me and physically abusive to his five year old sister. and she took it,because I had taught her to!!!!!!
my ex took me for everything, and got shared custody,which was the worst thing possible for my kids. i only agreed because he and his father(very powerful man and well connected) promised me i'd be put into a mental institution and never see them again if i didn't agree. (he believed that if he had partial custody he wouldn't have to pay support.) eventually he did pay some,but the damage to my now grown kids is far-reaching and i wish with all of my heart that i had enough good sense then to get a good lawyer and protect myself and them. trouble was,i was an abused wife who believed their threats were valid. of course now i would laugh in someone's face if they tried that. but it's almost twenty years later and my son still scorns me for not standing up to his father. i believe that he has the potential to become an abuser like his father,only because i didn't get him out of there in time. it's my greatest regret in my life.

[Just My Style]

I hate to hear things like this and I am really sorry for you.

After seeing two friends go through this, I have to chime in and stress again the importance of copying financial records. In both cases, the husbands did not report all of the assets. In one case, my friend was one step ahead and backed her ex in to a corner with proper documentation. Even with that, state laws worked against her (and her 4 year old son)- but not as bad as if she didn't have those records. In another case, the person is still clueless and will probably only get a fraction of what she deserves because he was so good at keeping things quiet and she wasn't gathering information when she still had access to the records.

Another thing to remember is that the debt is split too. I know of another case (years ago) where the guy knew he was going to leave the wife, bought expensive gifts ($40k worth) on the credit cards for his new girlfriend and then left the wife with 1/2 the debt. $20,000 in debt created to romance the new girlfriend. Nice.:mad: Get your name off the credit cards. And get new credit cards ONLY in your name.

And I don't think it's the horses or whatever he is griping about. He is using that as an excuse. It's a bigger problem. Unfortunately, he doesn't sound like the kind of guy that you could work this out with.

I am a mom too. I send you lots of jingles and good wishes to your kids.

[DancingPretense]

Haven't seen you post in a bit hope you and the kids are OK. Some great advice given and I have nothing to add. "selling" the horses to a trusted friend and finding a safe place for the dogs seems very wise. Keep your head up.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

I just wanted to say that I think your counsellor in the past hit the nail on the head with your husband. It is a ploy and if it were me, I'd call him on it. More than that, if he is THAT controlling that he can't allow YOU to have one single thing that makes YOU happy, outside of him, then, by all means, hit the road Jack! Seriously, it is not worth the pain you will have to go through, not to mention the kids. However, I do realize that this is just my opinion and that you have to do what is right for you and your family. I am sorry that this is happening to you and I hope that you are ok.

[Ruth0552]

I can tell you that if any man said that to me, they would see the sidewalk faster than water boils.

My father is a depressed alcoholic. As a child, the alcoholism wasn't too bad (yet) and he wasn't that depressed, but he was controlling and had anger management issues. When his parents died, he became deeply depressed (that was 8 years ago) and his alcoholism escelated into a real problem. Now, he lost his job almost 3 years ago, and got his first DUI about 3 weeks ago (about damned time!). He will not go to rehab and will not see a therapist, and pretty much all of us are afraid to approach him about this due to afformentioned anger issues.

He is an ass. He took his anger out on us (the kids) though even now he doesn't identify that. He thinks he was "disciplining" us. I remember him kicking the dog and throwing the cats down the stairs.

My mother is not a very strong woman, though she has found inner strength through meditation and eastern religion recently, and finally got her masters in (ironically) mental health counseling, and now has a full-time job.

The point of this is that it is not going to get better, and though it is nice that my parents are still married (my mother had no job, was full-time mom, and had no where to go except to her parents and her father is an ass with not quite as many problems as mine) I wish that they had just gotten a divorce at the beginning so my brother, sister and I would not have had to remember all that. And so that we could enjoy my mother. I try to get along with my father, but avoid him; and while my mother and I get along I know I will always harbor a little bit of resentment since she stayed with him and since she married him in the first place.

So I guess my advice is do yourself, your pets, and your children a favor: Get rid of him.

[Clydejumper]

Having been through a divorce and having a similar situaton. you have to make the decision that benefits you and your family.

Selling your horses and getting rid of your dogs and whatever else he feels is threating him now will not solve the situation. He really needs to see a doc, though you can't force him to do what is best for his family. Though it sounds like you are supposed to sacrafice everything. You really need to look at the whole picture and decide if you are better off with him or without him. I remember telling my ex that "make me choose you will loose" Of course I had had enough. If you are worried about the kids they will get through it okay, but it will be rough at first. Hang in there and good luck. Remember if you are not happy your kids and pets pick up on that also.

Our horses are our sanctuary and our sanity break. They always understand us.

[Anyplace Farm]

I can honestly say that if a man told me to choose between him and something that is such a big part of my life, like horses, I'd tell him goodbye. Not because I choose the horses but because no one who loves you should ever ask you to make that kind of a choice.

Some really important questions that I haven't seen anyone else ask is: why is he asking you to choose? Is it because he says the horses cost too much? Or does he feel you and/or the kids are spending too much time with them? And what the hell did the dogs do to deserve getting thrown out of the home they've only known?

I think on this one, I'd tell him that the marriage is over unless he goes w/you to counseling. I'd get a mediator to help get him to answer those questions above. Because you need to help him realize if he is just asking you to pay for the horses yourself, or do you need to scale back time with the horses, or are the dogs in his opinion dirty and need to go to the groomers more often or something? If he doesn't have answers to those questions, you need someone like a counselor to help him see he is being unreasonable and acting out as a mentally ill person. Maybe he'll realize he's letting his depression get in the way of everyone else's happiness. If he doesn't get help for that, then you really have some thinking to do and some plans to make.

Losing your horses is terrible, but being in an unhappy marriage is worse. Splitting up a home with children is terrible and is the worst of all. I don't have kids so I know what I'm about to say is a little selfish: I would never stay in an uhappy, irreparable marriage. Life is way too short. You have kids so you have to look at this from a different angle. You have to try to get the man help first and if all attempts at saving the marriage fail, you have to be prepared to walk.

For what it is worth, life is fan-f*cking-tastic on the other side.

[Clydejumper]

One more thing. You and your children will be much happier with no toxins around. What makes us achy/hurt now only makes you stronger and makes you look at the whole picture. Again hang in there.

And I am much happier now without the toxic/controlling relationship. I also have a friend who went through a similar situation and boy she is so much happier after kicking his rear end to the curb.

You have a good support group here have them help you with the pros and cons of things.

[philosoraptor]

Today my husband of 18 years told me that unless I sold my two horses, gave away our two dogs and started doing things that he wanted, he wanted a divorce and was leaving that night.

What a controlling #$%#$! While it's commendable you're trying to do the work to hold the marriage together, him controlling you isn't really a fair marriage. I suspect once he gets his way with this, next month it'll be some other demand "or I'm leaving tonight and not coming back".

Get him into marriage counseling. He has some issues. A good counselor will take him aside and say privately "you have some serious despression (or whatever) issues, and I'd like you to see me or one of my colleages". Nicely but repeatedly plead with him to go. If he goes, it might fix things. If he doesn't go and he leaves you anyway, it'll work in your favor in divorce court.

This may sound sneaky and underhanded, but you need to think about your future. Squirrel money away somewhere he'll never find out about. You don't need him going off the deep end and empying all the joint bank accounts because he doesn't want you to have the money.

You also should quietly talk to a divorce attorney now. Who moves out and on what grounds plays a part in the divorce proceedings. Ideally if he's giving up, let him move out so it's seen as abandonment. If you don't stack the deck in your favor, he'll tear you to bits in front of the courts.

I know I sound really negative but one of my friends had this happen to her about a year ago, and they have a 10 yr old daughter. One day husband comes home and demands "get rid of all these pets right now or else I'm leaving." She gave away all her pets except the dog. She got the house spotless. She tried really hard to be the perfect wife. A few weeks later he came home to pack his things and leave -- he was using the time to scout out apartments. And during those few weeks he emptied their checking accounts and 401k. He claims the money is "gone". This guy was so nasty he convinced the courts she was a bad mother, and now the kid is raised in a foster home (he didn't want to take his kid, of course, the lazy SOB).

When a person has something not right in their head, and they're refusing to get help.... and they're transferring all their unhappiness to the other person, trying to control the other person because they can't control their own life, things just get out of hand.

I am really really sorry. :(

In the meantime I don't know what to tell you about the pets & horses. Can you send them to friends' homes to live for a few months? You may still need to part with a few of them because a nasty divorce can totally bankrupt you. At least it'll give you time to figure out how to find them good new homes. Do you think he's controlling enough to come home when you're not around and haul the horses away to auction?

[2Horse]

I truly feel for you. I've been through a simular situation. My husband was very controlling and mentally abusive. He always accused me of sleeping around, hoarding money etc. Never let me keep a job. We were always was down to one vehicle because the other was "broke" (he was also a mechanic!) Of course I couldn't go anywhere. I had a young child too. He always threatened my horses and wanted me to sell them. He would be happy as a lark if I did. We had so much money problems. Our phone was getting shut off along with our electricty.
After 7 years I couldn't take it anymore. I moved my son, my horses and me to my mothers. I found out he had been the one cheating and using money for non legal things. He was fired from his very nice job because he'd rather go see his girlfriend then to go to work!
I got the divorce and I can't tell you just how much happier I am. I didn't realize just how bad it was until I was out.
Now I'm on my own. Can do what and when I want to. My son is much happier too! I make the same amount he did and I don't have ANY problems covering my expenses(my horses are better taken care of too!). I don't have to worry about wether the phone or the electricity is gonna be on or not. I just wish I would have gotten a divorce A LONG TIME before I did. I have never regretted it for one second.

[JanM]

Everyone is right! Cancel joint credit cards, get your money into your account or it will be gone, get the best divorce lawyer in your town (judges hate out-of-town lawyers on their territory), document everything financial and start keeping a journal, get a copy of his cell phone records (amazing what numbers show up on there), change the locks on everything (including your truck) or you might come home from the grocery store to find the house empty--or for sale. I second the copies of all financials to the lawyer and another copy in your safe deposit box. Get a counselor for the kids--they need to know from someone else that it's not their fault. Tell all of your friends and relative immediately about the separation--(not the reasons)--watch out for anyone that tries to take his side (you never know when someone that should help you will take his side to preserve the family or other garbage that is really betrayal of you and the kids) tell the kid's schools about the separation so they can help them cope too. Put his luggage outside and change all of the locks. He want out and he won't stay, besides he's not going to live on the streets--he can go live with his girlfriend (yes he has one). He made the first move now it's up to you to protect your kids and yourself.

[moonriverfarm]

Does he do this often?
My husband has once-a-year fits when he says things he doesn't mean and acts pretty demanding. Every time, he's reacting to something else other than what he's freaking out about, but won't confront the "real" issue - which is usually WORK or MONEY.
But if your husband does this a lot, or does it and never comes back with an apology of sorts soon after, I say it might be time to rethink the marriage. Are you happy with him? Does he pull his weight in the marriage? Or does he pull you and the kids DOWN? You cannot stay married for your children. Big mistake. If both you and your husband are not willing to work together on the marriage, I think it's time to think abotu making a change.
I despise how men sometimes try to threaten and bully women by trying to take away thie things they love most. Some men are just plain cowardly.

Chin up. We are behind you. As a women on her third marriage,I can safely say there is light at the end of the tunnel, and MANY things worse than being divorced and poor.

[Fessy's Mom]

I didn't read all the responses, so I'm not sure if someone else has said what I'm going to say, but I'm glad to see so many of us supporting and helping you! :yes: I just wanted to say as kindly as possible, that it seems as if he's given you this ultimatum knowing that you won't go for it and will leave him. I think he isn't brave enough to make the choice himself so is putting it on you, which is SO unfair. :no:

I'm terribly sorry you have to go through this, you AND your children. Honestly, if I were in your position, I'd call his bluff and go from there. If he's willing to seek treatment and work it out, you made the right move. If he isn't and it's over, you STILL made the right move. :yes:

Best wishes and peace to you. :sadsmile:

[Feenikks]

Everyone's advise is just what you need to get through this and LEAVE this character who, probably has not been much of a husband figure for many year now.

All I am going to add is:

LIFE IS TOO SHORT to be unhappy!

YOUR HUSBANDS issues are HIS issues! HE chooses not to do anything about his depression... WHY should YOU suffer?

On page 2 here you said you are willing to give up one of your horses... FOR WHAT?? This to me shows he is already breaking you down, that you are looking to compromise with him and what HE wants out of your "relationship"!

He is CONTROLLING! HE is ABUSIVE! It is probably really sad to think that this man could possibly be a good person but againg, HE chooses not to help his sickness.

YOUR concern should ONLY be your children and YOUR SELF!

HE took your car away.. nice husband huh? What will be next?

I would NOT sell anything for this man, I would not conform my life for someone elses happiness. You don't want to waste your life on this man!

Get what you can get together within the financial end. Secure your horses with the B/O (If they are boarded), If they are home with you, stash them at a friends place - tell your husband you "sold" them. Keep the dogs, they are your family too.

HE is selfish! HE is the problem! Don't back down, there is a whole nother life out there beyond this empty suit of a person. Sorry to be harsh but what's going to be next with him? What is he going to strip from you?

[notmefornow]

Thanks again for all the support. It means a lot.

This morning I got the names of both attorneys and mediators and I'm going to start calling them as soon as he leaves the house. I'm also going to make copies of the financial records, such as investment and retirement funds.

I've spoken to the people who own the property where my horses live and temporarily left my dogs there. They are very understanding.

My kids are subdued, but ok. They are at school now and that's probably a good thing. He says that I "blackmailed" him by having the kids there last night, but I didn't want him just disappearing. My son was the most upset -- my husband gave him a real earful about why it's my fault.

I am going to look into selling horses to a friend. My husband alternatively claims that they cost too much or that they take up too much of my time and attention. I can reduce their living expenses by leasing them out and will start looking for someone to help ASAP.

Part of the problem seems to be that he regrets borrowing money from my stepfather to start his business. Last night after the kids were asleep he told me that he wanted to sell the house to pay that money back. My stepfather has not asked for that (my husband has been repaying him on a schedule and pays interest) and I doubt that is what he'd want. But my husband says that's not the point.

Right now I'm just trying to buy some time so that I can collect myself.

We've tried counseling in the past, but he's never really accepted it. He likes the part where he gets to talk about the ways that I've failed him, but doesn't like to hear any input into how he might be causing problems. I will probably go see a counselor myself as I'm pretty sure it's covered under my health insurance and it would probably help me.

I don't think he's having an affair. I think he's just unhappy with how his life has turned out and thinks that a radical change is what he needs. He's really isolated himself over the past few years. He doesn't really like his business, he's lost touch with many of his friends, and he resents my friends.

[omuchacha]

I would think that he is being weak, he wants a divorce and by saying and placing demands that he knows you cannot and will not meet, he makes you into the "bad" person. Just my take on this.

:yes:

I hope you find the strength to get through this for yourself and your children. You will be amazed at the calm, peaceful life you'll find once you're rid of him.

[walkinon]

I've spoken to the people who own the property where my horses live and temporarily left my dogs there. They are very understanding.

My kids are subdued, but ok. They are at school now and that's probably a good thing. He says that I "blackmailed" him by having the kids there last night, but I didn't want him just disappearing. My son was the most upset -- my husband gave him a real earful about why it's my fault.

I am going to look into selling horses to a friend. My husband alternatively claims that they cost too much or that they take up too much of my time and attention. I can reduce their living expenses by leasing them out and will start looking for someone to help ASAP.

Part of the problem seems to be that he regrets borrowing money from my stepfather to start his business. Last night after the kids were asleep he told me that he wanted to sell the house to pay that money back. My stepfather has not asked for that (my husband has been repaying him on a schedule and pays interest) and I doubt that is what he'd want. But my husband says that's not the point.

Right now I'm just trying to buy some time so that I can collect myself.

We've tried counseling in the past, but he's never really accepted it. He likes the part where he gets to talk about the ways that I've failed him, but doesn't like to hear any input into how he might be causing problems. I will probably go see a counselor myself as I'm pretty sure it's covered under my health insurance and it would probably help me.

I don't think he's having an affair. I think he's just unhappy with how his life has turned out and thinks that a radical change is what he needs. He's really isolated himself over the past few years. He doesn't really like his business, he's lost touch with many of his friends, and he resents my friends.

He can't think clearly because he is sick. Depression is a sickness. People who are depressed can not make clear decisions about their life. This is coming from someone who has dealt with depression, and, I've had three friends who were chronicly depressed. One would turn situations around and pin the blame on everyone else and then at the last minute, would explode saying it was her fault. The other two friends committed suicide. One was a very respected member of society, member of the rescue squad, helped people, used to talk COUNTLESS kids out of suicide and trouble. He stopped taking his meds six months prior and then one day, stormed out, quit his job (he was a teacher), and shot himself that weekend. This was not him. This was his illness.

If someone doesn't want help, you can't force them to take it.

He jumped onto your son about why it’s all your fault and then has the nerve to tell you that you blackmailed him? Good grief. Honey, this man is not himself. Every moment that he is with those kids, treating them like this, is doing damage to those children emotionally.

I would not DARE SELL the horses to ANYONE. I would ask a friend if they could KEEP the horses for me until you can clear your head and get on your feet but DO NOT satisfy HIS DEMANDS and let him have is way by SELLING anything, even if it is to a friend. If he thinks they cost so much money, perhaps he should have thought of that before he demanded you cut back on your work. Do you see what everyone is saying? He is ever so slightly CHIPING away at everything.

Now, he’s wanting to sale the HOUSE?

This man, along with his depression, is being very, VERY abusive. “Nothing is my fault” is the song he is singing and YOU MUST KNOW that NONE of this is YOUR fault or your children’s. This is his fault. He is the one who doesn’t want to get help.

I would do as everyone else suggested. Get copies of all records, statements, etc. Talk to the lawyer. Cancel joint credit cards, bank accounts, etc. If you need time to collect yourself, do that after the finances. Get some of the family or some friends to let you stay with them for a couple of days, send the kids to an aunt or uncle’s home, get the horses and pets to a safe haven before he does something.

If he’s lost touch with people, resents family, etc, most people in this manipulative state will take out their anger and resentment PHYSICALLY.

((((hugs to you))))) PLEASE get to safety.

[RainyDayRide]

Good start NFMN .... and you're right - it's better that the kids are back in school. It will make their lives feel a bit more normal.

So now he wants to sell the house? Sounds as if he wants to get rid of all aspects of his life - do away with all responsibilities.

I'm so sorry you and your kids (and animals) have to deal with this.

[King's Ransom]

Sweetheart -- DO NOT SELL THE HOUSE!!!

I repeat -- DO NOT SELL THE HOUSE!!!
one more time -- DO NOT SELL THE HOUSE!!!

Did you hear me? DO NOT SELL THE HOUSE!

It sounds like you want to believe him, and maybe that you even want to help him. That makes you a good, kind person. Remember what someone said about Walk Softly But Carry a Big Stick. You can ONLY afford to be kind and generous to him if you carry that big stick. Take care of your finances. DO NOT SELL THE HOUSE. And then you may be in a situation where you can AFFORD to help him -- and I mean emotionally, financially, etc.

Protect yourself. Get legal counseling and emotional / psychological counseling. Right now, you are beyond marriage counseling. You have to save yourself. It's like you're on that plane that is crashing, and the oxygen masks are hanging in the air. PUT YOUR OWN ON FIRST! Once you are breathing abundant fresh air, THEN you are possibly able to help others get their masks on. Right now, your husband is batting them away from BOTH of you.

BE SMART. Don't let your heart or emotions rule. Put them absolutely on hold. This is like a big fence to jump. Trust your horse, spot the distance, and if necessary, grab mane and hold on. No time to be scared. No time to cry. You have to JUMP!!!

[DocNDabby]

Many hugs and tons of jingles for you and your kids, girl.

I may be flamed for what I say here, but here goes.

I'm with so many who have posted already here...be done with this man.

What he is doing is emotional blackmail and very abusive.

I came from a set of parents who STILL are like that...that demand to sell your horses and dog and YOU are to "do things to improve the marriage"...wow, deja vu.

Know what? I did 180 degrees the opposite. I walked away, KEPT my one horse (and now have a second one), kept my dog and my bird that they wanted me to put to sleep ("they aren't worth anything anyway"), and kept my violin ("what a waste, you haven't got any talent in music, what are you doing with that and you're wasting time you could use to take care of us"), and continued on with a working arrangement that makes it possible for me to have SOME income even though I have a very nasty and detiorating health issue. Notice that I was to "rape" my own life and drop it all FOR THEM and their issues. Never mind that they had a BIG house (totally paid for) three Cadillacs, a HUGE bank account and servants! What did I have? One 18 yr old car, rented a 30 yr old small house (think apartment sized), scrimped to have my one horse and had very little in the bank PLUS this illness...BUT I was to drop it all and "take care of them"????

Considering the physical, mental and situational abuse that had been my "inheritance" from these two for all my life, it was THAT demand that FINALLY woke me up...and I realized that if I caved in to that kind of evil demand, my life was OVER as it was an "erasure" of me and who I am.

Your husband's demand is the same...it's an "erasure" of you and your kids to suit his OWN selfish issues. Please understand that I respect "counseling" (have had counseling myself, believe me!)...but at that point in the game, your number one concern should be SELF PRESERVATION AND PRESERVATION OF YOUR KIDS' EMOTIONAL AND SITUATIONAL WELFARE.

Yes, kick him to the curb.

As to his "decision" to not support you...HA! Get thee NOW to an attorney...don't wait. Tell your attorney what he has "planned" and your concerns about his possibly liquidating the business... if you file for a LEGAL SEPARATION immediately YOURSELF, he will be enjoined FROM doing such a thing (means he legally cannot do so)...PLUS any debts he accumulates from that point on cannot be attributed to you! GET TO A LAWYER NOW and get yourself protected AND your kids protected. If you do that now you may avert a future disaster. Become familar with your state's divorce laws and also talk to your accountant (if you don't have one, GET one)...you need protection!

If you have a women's help center in your area, call them and SEE them so that you have resources to help you and your children as you step through this. IF you have any family that can be of any sort of support (even just emotionally) begin to surround yourself with that support.

This is war, and he declared it, hon. You must have a "siege" mentality to PROTECT you and your kids. By his very demands, he has shown that he is NOT looking out for anyone but HIMSELF.

I hope I have not offended you by my directness. I've got law school under my belt and spent 16 years in one of the largest lawfirms in my state, and even though my area was in medical malpractice ligitation, I've certainly picked up enough information and seen things go badly enough for some folks to know that you should take this situation very seriously. In addition, though my own experience was via my very mentally and emotionally ill parents (and tossing in alchoholism didn't help), the dynamics are quite similar, and it took me until I was well into middle age to lose the rose colored glasses of "oh, if I just do THIS, or if I just do THAT, things will change and get better!"...Um, NOT always. Autocratic, selfish and demanding people don't play well with others.

DO keep us informed as to your welfare! No need to share personal details if you don't want to, but I, for one, am very concerned for you and your kids in this kind of situation...be aware it can escalate, too...my parental issues certainly did...having my father follow me around and pointing a Luger 9mm at me and later trying to strangle me was NEVER NEVER NEVER on my radar I can tell you that...I am not saying your husband is a violent person, but just be aware some folks can go over the edge... I am worried that he apparently has no compassion for you and your kids...just be careful, ok?

Let us know how you are doing...MANY MANY jingles and hugs for you and your children...stay strong...we ARE here for you!;)

[DocNDabby]

Oh, and...


DO NOT SELL THE HOUSE!!!

DO NOT SELL ANYTHING!!!

GET THE TO A LAWYER ASAP and get PROTECTED NOW!!!

[lizathenag]

been there, got out, my life is so much better than I could imagine before I got out. and now I have a partner who is completely support of my horse and dog and adult children.

you can live in faith or you can live in fear.

things will be fine.

take care of yourself. that is the only way you can take care of your kids.

[colleent]

first of all, Do not sell the horses. Or at least keep the one you love so dearly. this man is unstable and he is asking you to do things that are unrealistic. sell the house for instance. tell him you have some demands of your own, and #1 is that he get back on his meds and see a counselor.

Stand up for yourself so that your kids can see a STRONG mother and not a Doormat. they need to have respect for you, and you have got to stand up for yourself. i know this is killing you inside. but he already did the damage.

Who's to say once you sell the horses and the house, that he does not leave anyway? then where are you? i wish you the best.

[EqTrainer]

Glad to hear you are in control of things.

Remember this one thing, even if you remember NOTHING else when things get wild:

ANY MAN WHO TALKS TO HIS CHILDREN IN THAT WAY, FOR THAT PURPOSE, NEEDS TO BE OUT THE DOOR.

The sooner, the better, for their sake and yours.

My parents did this shit, and we found out years later than my little brother had all types of crazy ideas (planted by both of them) as to why they had gotten divorced.

[Horsecrazy27]

OH MY!!

First, I'm sorry you are going through this!!!!!

This world has taught us to be ungrateful, unhappy and to constantly re-play the negative thoughts in our head.

We need to start focussing on the good things----being grateful for everything in our life. GOSH, I want to shake your husband!!!

No relationship can be healthy by putting demands on it---like what he has requested.

I know we don't know the full story of 18 plus years with this man and his family and his history, so it is hard to give advice.

Have you ever watched "Joel Osteen"....if not, I would really at least do that---if he won't go to get help elsewhere. Check out his web site....he is a Christian, but more over than that, he is such a good speaker and focus's on being positive and how to live in a world where so many people have to pop pills to be happy. (Been there done that with anti-depressants, so, not saying anything bad about that), but it is a fact that almost everyone I know does something to cover up bad feelings, wether it is to eat, drink, drugs, anti depressants, cheat....... I EAT!! But, yesterday (after watching him) I watch him on a regular basis--over the last 9 years, but, I'm WAY HUMAN and mess up on a regular basis---I really tried to apply what he was saying. While I was on a trail ride listening to my girlfriend complain about her live-in boyfriend----I tried to say nothing but positive things about my husband. I fell into the complaining thing twice, but shook myself and said----I'm grateful for my husband even with his faults. If I didn't do that, the whole session would of turned into a bunch of negative energy and been a conversation that my brain would of replayed over and over-----making me grumpy and non-grateful for my husband. My husband is NOT perfect----our relationship is not perfect--- I DO NOT EXPECT it to be---we are both humans---living in a very imperfect negative world. BUT, he has a beautiful soul, we love each other and he is my best friend--even when I'm ugly to him. He makes me want to be a better person--as I do for him.


As I was watching Joel yesterday, he talked about a family who lost their daughter in a horrid car crash. At the funeral, they said, "We are just grateful that we had her for as long as we did---that we were her parents, she was a beautiful person." The fact that they found something to be grateful for in this horrible time......was an example that in every situtation we can find something to be grateful for. If we do this, we can train our brain to be more positive----which helps us in our thoughts and day to day life. I don't know if this is making sense----but, if we can find something to be grateful for in EVERY situtation---then things WILL change for the better. I'm sure your grateful for many things---sometimes just voicing that many times a day will change your attitude----then all the sudden people around you will start changing.

You ever hear the story of the girl who wanted to change her mean/hateful husband? She went to a phrophet, he told her, once you pluck 3 whiskers from the wild tiger, her marriage would be cured. She took months of trying to befriend the tiger---(making this shorter) one night she plucked a whisker---the next night she again when to the tiger and was so sweet to him....pulled another---the next night the same. She went to the phrophet---and siad, my husband is still angry. He told her to use the same tactics to befriend her husband. Meaning that she too had anger and when she changed...her husband changed. PLEASE don't think I'm thinking your the bad guy.....not at all.

I'm saying from my own experiance---if I'm walking around grumpy, with I don't want to be your friend anymore--------it bounces off of me and there is tense feelings. I walk around with a smile---happy thoughts, asking how his day is, taking interest in his interest and wanting to do them---he all the sudden has an interest in mine. Sounds so simple...but, it works. Sometimes, take longer if the wall of pain is thicker...but, LOVE is stronger than Hate.

I would advise him that you realize he is upset and you want to help him......ask him how he is feeling? Ask him if he is trying to hurt you and your children? Ask him how he would like to be treated if the table was turned. Maybe get a baby sitter----a comfortable atmospher to have an adult low voice conversation. Sharing how each of you made the other "feel"......having those feelings because of how the other person behaved....To be together for 18 years, you have to have some type of friendship seed in there somewhere. In this busy life---we forget to feed that seed---to keep it growing. We also seem to find faults when speaking with others about their husbands---all the sudden we say---mine does that too..........and things turn into a complain session----what would happen if we started to have talks about the wonderful things they love about their man. EVEN if your having a bad day---sometimes with men---they are like puppys....if you forget about the potty spot, so do they. MEN want to be play----does he like any kind of sport? If so, go out and do that as a family---excer. releases endorphins! My guys likes to play catch--or go to the batting cages-----He gets such a kick when it is my idea. I notices he sleeps so much better that night and he also wants to walk down to the barn with me latter and hand out carrots. (Which I must add, he is NOT the horsey guy---they are MY thing)

I really think if we (men/women) do this, in the save-able relationship (non-abusive) we can teach our kids great communcation, how to work through difficult times and preventing difficult times==and WANT a successful HAPPY LOVING marriage---because they watched their parents have such a thing.

I know.... I sound like a "pro-save" all relationships, but geez, look at this world...you have less than a fifty/fifty chance at not ending a marriage in divorce. IMHO it is because we live in a world where everything is made to be easy and quick---and we want our relationship to be easy. Just look at all the different oppinions on this board over the subject of just horses----in a relationship---there are millions of subjects and two different opinions--- have to meet in the middle. Somehow, now days ====it is easier to say-- F. U. and move on.

So, I guess it all comes down to how much of your heart and his heart still cares. If both of you have that common ground------there is hope and you have to peel the onion on him to see what is REALLY bothering him. I'm sure it is not the dogs/horses and what ever. It has to be something else.

I have been there with my husband----not to long ago, he was frusterated when we had a disagreement----he knows the way to really get me MAD is to bring my Mom or horses into an arguement---- Now, I don't entertain that, I ask what is REALLY bothering him and we BOTH need to sit down and talk like adults. Understanding that we are different individuals------but, with a common goal (to be with each other for ever)....we need to work through those times. We have been together for 7 years.... I hope we can always handle hard times like this........ I believe that if we keep strong in our faith, stay true to each other (in mind ((by not judging-complaining about), respect each other and keep the communication open and honest.

IMHO it is never to late to apply the above.


Now, if someone was hitting-raping-letting another hit/rape..... He/She is OUT OF THERE!!!!! NO excuse for that.....and the hitter/abuser needs to be put away---or put down!!!!!!!!

I know that most people are GOOD......but, because of the world, they turn hurt, negative and let stress spew out of their mouth. Talk before they think things through. I hope you both can have a long talk, forgive each other for past hurts---and start over. Hope you can have a deep loving relationship---a second honeymoon! So, you can show your kids how wonderful a marriage can be---being a great example for them to pick out a mate in their life time----your daughter should want to marry a man just like her daddy-----your husband needs to remember that---he is teaching her what kind of man she needs to be with!! Does he want someone treating his little girl like the way he treats you? I REALLY doubt it!! (if you have a daughter)...Your son should want to marry someone like Mommy--- A strong woman who loves her man----and listens so good----being the strong woman who knows how to make her man soft and wanting to take care for his family with love and tenderness.

Something has to be there after 18 years.

I hope it was just a rotten moment in time--that can be forgoten about--and things change for the better very quickly. I will add you to the prayer list!!

FIRE suit on.......

[FoxChaser]

No advice from me, you're getting plenty of it... Jingles to you, your children, and your beasties. Hang in there and know that there are lots and lots of people who care about you and want the best for you :) ((((hugs!))))

[JanM]

DON'T SELL THE HOUSE--the debt to your stepfather if it's documented in writing can be leverage to get you more assets (if your stepfather agrees it could get you the house or part of his retirement in return for cancelling the loan). If you sell the house where will you live with the kids? Everyone I know that moved out of the family home or sold the house lost out big time. Where will you live and how will you pay the rent? He wants his previous life to disappear, and I bet he will whine about every penny of child support or other money he has to give up. You have to do the best thing for yourself and your children--being a doormat and ending up on welfare is not the best. Everyone I know that divorced or was deserted said no girlfriend (or boyfriend) existed--they were all wrong. He may not be having a real affair but he's dreaming about a life without you, his children, and all of the responsibilities that ruined his life--in his warped viewpoint everything that is wrong with his life is caused by the all of the problems everyone else caused--nothing is his fault from his viewpoint. I guarantee you that if you divorce and he gets everything he'll still blame you and the kids for everything that's still wrong with his life. You can't help someone that doesn't want help--he's the only one that can see he has a problem and get help.

[carolprudm]

Perhaps you have already done this (I haven't read the whole thread) but if it isn't to late get control of the cash.
ASAP

Then pay a call with the best lawyer in town....the one you don't want him to use.
Edited to add, copies of the records will help in some situations but NOT if he drains all your cash and hides it.

[sidepasser]

Is he the type of person who would take the children physically? As in "go to the school and check them out and disappear with them"? Think really long and hard about that as people with mean streaks will do things that normal people won't do and those that are depressed with mean streaks can really go haywire and do things you would not ever imagine, including snatching children and leaving with them to get back at the spouse who "wronged" them.

If you even have a niggling of thought that this "might" happen, contact your attorney asap and get whatever paperwork is needed by the school/daycare, etc. to prevent him from checking them out and leaving with them.

He may be harmless, but on the other hand..he may not.

Please take care of yourself and your children. If you can stash the dogs and horses somewhere, I am sure that it will be one less burden that you have to take care of.

Hugs to you and your children.

[ESG]

Then pay a call with the best lawyer in town....the one you don't want him to use.


This is great advice, but I'd go one step further, and visit the top five divorce lawyers in your town. Not only will your husband not know who you'll end up using, but most importantly, he won't be able to use any of them; conflict of interest, dontcha know.....................:winkgrin:

Yes, it sounds underhanded and dirty, but that's divorce for you. :p And don't think for one second that he'd scruple against doing exactly the same thing. Just pray that he hasn't, already. :no:

[King's Ransom]

Yes, I would definitely contact SEVERAL of the top lawyers in town. That is absolutely correct about the conflict-of-interest angle.

A couple of additional thoughts, from experience --

1. Be CAREFUL about your use of the home computer / internet. Your husband could easily figure out that it's you on this thread by the title, Horses or Husband? Even though you've used an alter, he will know who is whom if he sees this. Be careful about your "history" too if you are doing divorce research or visiting lawyers' websites. Also, remember your "trail" on the home and cell phones.

2. Act with honor. Someone recommended getting the most cut-throat lawyer you could find. I really wish I had not done that. My lawyer ran up unnecessary legal fees (conflict-instigators do this!), way-raised the level of conflict between me and then-husband, and convinced me to do one really lousy thing that I still so regret. In fact, it was so under-handed that I can't even admit on here that I did it. Be careful of those lawyers who advise you to do anything that you dont' feel right about. Long story short, my lawyer advised me to do something deceitful, and I did it. Not only do I STILL feel horrible about it, but when I did finally switch lawyers, I learned that her stupid little "trick" wouldn't have worked anyway because any judge could see that it was basically a "trick." Now, despite all of the horrible things that my ex did, I still feel terrible that I did this one deceitful thing. And of course, EVERYONE knows about it because he told everyone ... and I could not deny that I did it. Don't cut him any slack, but don't follow some slime-ball lawyer's advice if you know it is something you would be embarrassed to admit to your children ... or your mother.

[notmefornow]

My husband has calmed down quite a bit and is regretting his anger and his actions. He is not the type of person to spirit my horses away or do something to the children.

I have an appointment later this week with an attorney so that I am more prepared mentally to think through my options and make sure I am prepared to make an educated choice. At this point, I'm still very angry at his tactics and not sure that I want to continue in my marriage, but I'd also prefer that that the situation de-escalates. I'm going to go see a marraige counselor myself and try to sort through my feelings.

I've thought about whether or not he would look on this board and have decided to change the name of this thread. If he did see it, he'd know for sure that it was him and would be furious that I'd publicized the situation.

Thanks again to everyone for letting me get this out and for all the support. It's really helping me tremendously.

[IndysMom]

My advice-don't fall for this one!!!! Mine got to be so that I could actually chart his mood swings. It was worse than the stock market!

Stay strong, GET HIM OUT. Even if he seems better today, tomorrow he's just as likely to start over with the same old crap. If you don't do it for yourself, do it for your kids. They don't need to be exposed to this kind of toxic crap over and over again.

[fullmoon fever]

My experience with controlling people has been that once they see that they have pushed "too far" and you are now going to do something, they back off and everything is great...until the next time.

You have been given excellent advice. Whether or not you choose to follow it is, of course, up to you. Whatever path you follow, I wish you and your children well.

[King's Ransom]

Sounds like you may have bought some time. And I hope -- really hope -- that, with some counseling and effort from both of you, love can prevail and perhaps you two can find the answers that eluded so many of the rest of us. I wish my ex- and I could have found a way to "fix" ourselves. We were married for 25 years and it is not a happy thing to end such a long relationship.

HOWEVER, if you have bought some time, be sure to use it wisely. You never want to find yourself in this vulnerable situation again. I found a terrific counselor who helped me through the last two brutal years of my marriage. I tried so hard to fix it, but when I saw that I was the only one trying ... I started just trying to fix me. The day I left is scorched into my memory. But I was ready. I had a Plan B. Never wanted to use it, but I had it. You should have one, too. No matter what, you can't just keep on keeping on like this.

(((((((((hugs)))))))) to you.

[carolprudm]

2. Act with honor. Someone recommended getting the most cut-throat lawyer you could find. I really wish I had not done that. My lawyer ran up unnecessary legal fees (conflict-instigators do this!), way-raised the level of conflict between me and then-husband, and convinced me to do one really lousy thing that I still so regret. .
She does not have to use the cut throat lawyer, but if she discusses her situation with him her husband can't use him.

[TBKate]

I just came to this, and am amazed at all the wonderful advice you've been given. I'm glad he's "calmed down", but I have to say I am of the opinion that you shouldn't be waiting for the next time this happens. Keep getting your financial records in order, seeing your therapist, and if he won't go on medication and make a SERIOUS effort to improve his mental health, GET RID OF HIM.

I have depression. So does my father. We both have good doctors and well balanced meds. That was not always the case with my dad; once my mom said to me "I've done everything I could short of leaving him." Qualify that statement with the fact that although his depression definitely affected us before he got treatment, he never directed it at us. Your husband is allowing his disease to control his life when there are plenty of treatment options available. Don't be fooled by this upswing. He'll go back down again sure as the sun, and then you'll be back where you started. You sound like a brave, sensible, caring woman, so keep doing what you're doing, don't be afraid to lean on professional help of the medical and legal variety, and take the time to hug your horse.

[Marla 100]

I do feel for you and your kids but you have to listen to all this good advice here, especially the financial suggestions. The man you married no longer exists so you must protect yourself. This all sounds so familiar to me. "It's the horses or me, Life is Passing Me By, I'm not happy, You are the problem, etc." I heard it all also. It's called their Mid-Life Crisis. Sweep out the old and bring in the NEW. Trade the 40 for two 20's. Har- Har.
This man has already decided he is leaving the marriage. He's squirming now, not sure how to do it. You and the kids are not important to him at this point, it's all about him. This push-pull he is doing is manipulation, changing his tune back and forth. He will make your life miserable and totally unstable until he forces you to take action. You may have to do this. Move him out. You take control and make the decisions for yourself and your kids. At least establish some stability here.
Stay strong and keep your chin up, it will get ugly before it gets better.

[onthebit]

Part of the problem seems to be that he regrets borrowing money from my stepfather to start his business. Last night after the kids were asleep he told me that he wanted to sell the house to pay that money back. My stepfather has not asked for that (my husband has been repaying him on a schedule and pays interest) and I doubt that is what he'd want. But my husband says that's not the point.


Your situation is sounding more and more like mine - except replace father with stepfather. On top if it all he WAS having an affair - just another escape from his life he had created and decided he hated so much.

[Critters Everywhere]

http://www.divorcemag.com/articles/

This is a good place to start. Plus, they have links to the divorce laws of all 50 states. I learned a ton by reading there. Some things I wish I would have read at the beginning of my marriage; would have changed a lot.

As a general rule, I would *NOT* leave the house. You're basically turning possession over to him at that point. Try to get him to move out instead...change the locks as soon as he does! Also, find out if in your state it makes a difference who actually files. It doesn't in WA, but it does in some others (I've been told).

I'm sorry you're going through this. My husband of 7 years decided he wanted a divorce on Oct 12. I was devestated. But now that he's gone, I'm learning more & more of the things he kept from me. And the more I learn, the more I realise it was NOT my fault and that I really, truly am better off without him. (okay, the celibacy part sucks! :p) He was also depressed and there was a huge change (for the worse) when he changed medications a few months before he left. But frankly, that was NOT the main issue.

Good luck.

[NotMeEither]

Marla wrote: This all sounds so familiar to me. "It's the horses or me, Life is Passing Me By, I'm not happy, You are the problem, etc." I heard it all also.

OMG - I just got the same speech a few weeks ago! I could be the OP with some moderations....childless here. I am also dealing with a partner with depression, and although I'm too busy to chart his mood swings, I'll bet I could and the pattern would be obvious. Not having children makes it somewhat "easier" (lack of a better word) to tolerate....but there are times when I wonder exactly how much more I can take. Selling my horses is not an option. Putting up with more emotional abuse shouldn't be either.

To the OP: stay strong and heed the good advice you've gotten. Know that you are not alone. Life is too short to live it unhappily (I should heed my own words...)

[King's Ransom]

About changing the locks and leaving / not leaving the house. Every situation is different. If you are afraid of your husband, leave. Period. There is nothing worth dying for in that house -- even if you leave it now and never go back and lose all the money you ever put it into (I did). Better to be alive. Changing the locks does nothing to protect YOU.

And if you are not afraid of your husband, why change the locks?

I always think this is just a spiteful thing to do, one of those little things that escalates the conflict. When I first left my husband, we were not officially "separated." No one had filed for divorce. We were not even talking divorce. But he got some lame-brain "advice" from outsiders who did not know us and they told him to change the locks. He did. That was my house, too and all my stuff was in there and we were still married. Why could I not go back and take a nap, change my clothes, get more of my belongings, take a shower or anything? It was a premature escalation of the conflict. One of many.

Protect yourself, but don't do things just to make it worse. Again, if you are AFRAID of him, LEAVE. Changing the locks protects nothing. It's just a way to spit at somebody.

[Daydream Believer]

I only read the first three pages but it really sounds like he is depressed...probably a manic depressive. I know well what it is like being married to someone who suffers from this problem. I am still married though and have been for 20 years. We've dealt with it and while things are not always perfect, we are utterly devoted to each other and being together.

Am I the only person on this thread who thinks this guy needs help rather than a kick in the butt? Yes, the kids are important as are the OP's horses and dogs...but with the right medication a person with this problem, can live normally and control their depression. IMO a marriage that can be saved, should be...for the sake of the kids and for the love that was once there.

OP..try to convince him to seek help. It's your turn to make some demands and tell him that you will leave him if he does not see a psychiatrist and get some help. I'll bet deep inside he still loves you and wants to make this work. At least try to get him to a doctor if you can. Don't endanger yourself to do it...but he does not sound dangerous from what I've read.

[asb_own_me]

Notmefornow -

You have gotten a lot of good advice. Some of the things I will say have been said already but bear repeating.

Yes, depression is an illness. It runs in my father's side of the family (his brother is literally certifiable and living in a commune somewhere in FL, and their mother shot herself in the head when he was 9 years old) and I have had problems with it in the past. It is an illness and I feel terrible for anyone who has to deal with it. HOWEVER....depression and illnesses of its ilk DO NOT give the sufferers free rein to trample everyone else in their lives. It does not give that person a free pass to get away with heinous behavior.

My next statement will sound callous and cold to some, but it's the way life is - take care of YOU. It is your job to take care of YOU, and it is his job to take care of HIM. Depression is HIS illness, not yours. He has made the choice to inflict his illness on you and your children, without regard for the consequences (losing marriage, scaring the kids, etc) and has not sought treatment. That is COMPLETELY UNNACCEPTABLE, regardless of a mental illness diagnosis.

His behavior is classic manipulation, and meeting his demands will not improve anything. It will only serve to encourage more, higher stake demands and give him pleasure in inflicting that emotional pain on you. When you feel like shit, you want the world to feel like shit. He is doing his damndest to drag you down with him. Do not let him. Look at it this way - he is drowning, you are swimming on by, and he is grabbing your leg and trying to pull you under. Do NOT be a victim.

All of the other advice you've gotten bears repeating. Consult with the half dowzen best attorneys in town. Keep everything aboveboard, but cover your bases. Photocopy everything, document everything, have friends who live close by on speed dial and aware of the situation. If he becomes verbally or physically threatening for ONE SECOND towards you, your children, your horses, the dogs....anyone.....call the police. Document everything.

Signed,
the only child of a father who suffered from alcoholism and depression his entire adult life, and managed to never threaten or abuse his wife or daughter.

Good luck to you.

[colleent]

how many times do "second Chances" really work out? i do not think it is a high percentage. i do not wish any more trauma to your family, but as everyone has said- TAKE CARE OF YOU AND THE KIDS. and that may mean making choices that are very difficult. your kids may say they hate you and that it's all your fault. the truth is, kids do not really understand, and someday, they will. and they don't really hate you, they just do not know how to vocalize what they are feeling. be strong and do what you know is right for you and the kids.

[circusponydreams]

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you, OP. I'm with the others - get your ducks in a row and get ready for life without him. I don't doubt that his depression is driving (or at least contributing to) his abusive behavior. But remember: you cannot fix his depression, you cannot fix the fact that he hates his life, and these things are NOT your fault. He's the only one who could change them.

The best you can do is to look out for yourself, your kids and your animals.

[lisa]

<snip>He's unhappy with where he is in his life <snip>

And therein lies the problem.

Yes, he's trying to place all "blame" for his unhappiness on you. Yes, he is depressed.

Remember this: is not your responsibility to be this man's source of happiness! And if he's not happy within himself, there is *nothing* you can do that will make him become happy.

I have been in your situation, to a certain extent. My husband, at one time, made noises like yours regarding the expense/time the horses demand. I looked him straight in the eye and said, "Do not make me choose. You will not like my decision." He has never said another word about him or them...

Unlike others, I am not convinced this marriage is over, but *you* have to make some changes. How dependent on him are you, and how dependent on him has he made you? Financially, emotionally -- does he "control" you in other ways? That has to change -- you have to have some power over yourself and your choices.

I agree with those who said to show him the door. I'm not convinced he is serious. I have found that most of the time when people threaten, they're bluffing. People who are serious about something just do it... But in order to do that, *you* have to be serious, and that includes being in a financial position to support yourself, even if you have to be the one who moves out.

[YankeeLawyer]

Yes, I would definitely contact SEVERAL of the top lawyers in town. That is absolutely correct about the conflict-of-interest angle.

A couple of additional thoughts, from experience --

1. Be CAREFUL about your use of the home computer / internet. Your husband could easily figure out that it's you on this thread by the title, Horses or Husband? Even though you've used an alter, he will know who is whom if he sees this. Be careful about your "history" too if you are doing divorce research or visiting lawyers' websites. Also, remember your "trail" on the home and cell phones.

2. Act with honor. Someone recommended getting the most cut-throat lawyer you could find. I really wish I had not done that. My lawyer ran up unnecessary legal fees (conflict-instigators do this!), way-raised the level of conflict between me and then-husband, and convinced me to do one really lousy thing that I still so regret. In fact, it was so under-handed that I can't even admit on here that I did it. Be careful of those lawyers who advise you to do anything that you dont' feel right about. Long story short, my lawyer advised me to do something deceitful, and I did it. Not only do I STILL feel horrible about it, but when I did finally switch lawyers, I learned that her stupid little "trick" wouldn't have worked anyway because any judge could see that it was basically a "trick." Now, despite all of the horrible things that my ex did, I still feel terrible that I did this one deceitful thing. And of course, EVERYONE knows about it because he told everyone ... and I could not deny that I did it. Don't cut him any slack, but don't follow some slime-ball lawyer's advice if you know it is something you would be embarrassed to admit to your children ... or your mother.

Agreed. Except, first conflict out the slimiest, nastiest lawyer in town and then hire the agressive but above-board one ; ).

[ChampionMercedes]

My parents divorced when I was 8 and my sister was 4. It was the best thing they could have ever done for us. We were lucky because we were left out of any issues that they had. To this day I have only once heard my mom say a negative thing about my father, and that was only a year or so ago (13 years of divorce). I never heard them fight when I was a kid, so the divorce suprised me, but I also remember there being a lot of tension in our house.

It is a terrible thing for him to bring your children into this. For their sake I reccomend getting him out ASAP. If your son looks up to his father and he is filling his head with BS then your son will only treat you the same way in the future.

[Lucassb]

Definitely DO NOT AGREE TO SELL THE HOUSE.

His business debt is HIS BUSINESS DEBT... NOT your responsibility to pay off by selling what is almost certainly your biggest asset.

You and the children will need somewhere to live. Do not give that up so he can bail on his business.

You have a vested interest in his remaining employed. If this business debt is what is helping to keep him at the office, even part time... that is a GOOD thing.

I hope you get in touch with a good attorney very soon. In many states, once you file for separation/divorce, both parties are prevented from undertaking any major financial changes. That is a good thing, because it makes it more likey that the eventual distribution of assets is an equitable one. The sooner that is in place, the better.

Hang in there. It does get better - a LOT better!!

[annikak]

I I am still married though and have been for 20 years. We've dealt with it and while things are not always perfect, we are utterly devoted to each other and being together.

Am I the only person on this thread who thinks this guy needs help rather than a kick in the butt?

but he does not sound dangerous from what I've read.

No, there are others here, including the OP, that think he needs help. Because this thread has gotten so long, some important points might be getting missed. He thinks he cannot get help lest he lose his pilots license. I think if he indeed did get help, the OP sounds like she might be able to stay and see if things might work out.

I agree with Kings Ransom- (again!) you don't want to do anything you would not want to tell your kids, mom or best friend about. Again, I think by staying strong in yourself, you then have power. Again, because I am reading btw the lines, it does seem that you care about him, and that while his tactics seem very nasty, you sense there is an underlying reason for all this. Someone said work or money- I agree- You do not seem like a bitter, angry person, and that is very very good. You seem strong, and well reasoned. We got your back, darlin'!

I shall say it again, however, if it's over for you, it's over. I will also say again, Depression sucks- for the depressed person and for everyone near and dear to the depressed person.

Thinking abt you and jingling for you, your kids and...yes, your husband.

[lark_b]

Get him into marriage counseling. He has some issues. A good counselor will take him aside and say privately "you have some serious despression (or whatever) issues, and I'd like you to see me or one of my colleages". Nicely but repeatedly plead with him to go. If he goes, it might fix things. If he doesn't go and he leaves you anyway, it'll work in your favor in divorce court.


I think we might disagree about what a good counselor will do :). Therapy School(TM) tells us to work with what the situation IS, not what it could be. A good therapist would realize that this guy's committment to therapy is low in the first place, and that jumping on him about going to someone to deal with his depression is likley to drive him away from ANY therapy in the first place. If the therapist is able to keep this guy coming long enough to build some sort of rapport, then she might be able to suggest it once, but no good therapist nags with repeated "pleas." No better way to drive away your client than that.

But I don't think therapy will do it, personally. Therapy is not a cure-all, and it sounds like this guy is DONE. Therapy works best when you don't use it as a last-resort, when you use it before there is so much ill-will that one person (or both) actually is ready to walk away. It might even hurt at this point, by giving the kids false hope. Notmefornow has to choose for herself and decide whether SHE even wants to keep trying, but I think even the most skilled therapist would be daunted by this. Couples therapy teaches communication and problem-solving skills, and I'm not sure that will do it here.

The guy does need help, but he has made clear he does not want it. They have already been to therapy, and clearly it failed. That could have happened for any number of reasons, but it seems that this guy has had a chance, knows the possibilities for help, and is not ready to reach out for them. You can lead a horse to water, you know?

[Frog]

First and foremost, I don't believe for one second that your husband has "calmed down" and suddenly "isn't that kind of guy." He really said those things, he IS that kind of guy. Do not forget that.


Someone earlier wrote: "Don't forget to tell your lawyer that you cut back on your business at your husband's request. That lost income should be considered in calculating/determining alimony."

Whoever posted this (sorry I'm lost on all these pages!)-you're right that it will be considered- but you have it backwards. Proving that she can make more money will mean that she gets less. "Feminism" has apparently meant, to the court system, that women who were previously stay at home moms (that being the arrangement of the marriage) have a huge financial obligation to work to "lessen the need" of support from the husband (even if he makes 90,000 a year), even if she does not have a college degree.

My mom is broke now living in a crappy neighborhood, my controlling father is rolling in dough. And this lawyer (he told her to leave the house- seems like he was working for the wrong team) has his name in all the top lawyer books. And she owes all of her attorney fees from what she got in the settlement (do I need to mention that it was piss poor, or can you tell from the way this is going), plus some of his attorney fees (wtf???!!). And she doesn't have the money to pay the attorney's fees, so eventually the lawyer's office could end up with her house. Nothing like a woman (with a CHILD in the home!) giving away TWO houses to stupid men. It's a man's world out there, don't believe otherwise for a second. I'm not advocating murder (but I'm a huge advocate of anything that happens in self defense), but she should have killed him somehow. I can't believe that the court system has made it so that to their wives, husbands are better off dead.
Speaking of murder, be careful. At least get a knife. They say women kill to get rid of their husbands, and men kill to hang on to their wives. Be careful. And good luck.

[lark_b]

Oh, and about "calming down"--Notmefornow, are you familiar with the cycle of violence?

http://www.actabuse.com/cycleviolence.html

Your husband is not physically abusive as of right now, but he is emotionally abusive, and you seem to have entered the quiet phase where he tries to make it seem like everything is ok. If it weren't for this phase, the abused would never stay, but it's because of it that we develop hope. I know, I've been there. As others have said, it's temporary. Use the quiet to do the things you need to do, but don't think it will last. :(

[goeslikestink]

mate DONT SELL YOUR NEDS NOR YOUR HOUSE YOU ARE CONFORMING TO HIS WISHES --- CONTROL

--YOU CAN DO THIS AND WE ALL ARE BEHIND YOU --
YOUR NOT ALONE YOU HAVE US ----bloody bloke--

look matey -- your bisness is fine his is shit --

god he so jealous of you -- you know this isnt all about depression that an excuse the more i read your words the more i see jealously

jealous starts as a peand then growwwwwwwwws into a SNOWBALL

1--- yourstep dad lont money -- for his bisness

oh dear its was your relation as he didnt have enough money---now his business is taking a lost-------- anger jealous as yours was taking a profit
so he got back at you to reduce your bisness as he didnt wanyou to be ahead of him in the game plan-- male chovisnist git

you have brought horses dog s car house---bits abd bobs and business even at areduce rate still pulls ---- far better than his
its a race to the top -- stupid male git

partnerships when in partnership as a married couple in normal circumstances does it matter who ahs the better business - what a complete wolly


this bloke is so sos soso jealous of you its eatening him up and boy hes not gonna listen to reason so what he gonna do--
attack you in the only way left --thorugh your own flesh and blood your kids -- and there pets

what an utter bas----d

shit on him backl with all your worth girl --- hes not worth dog pooh

[annikak]

In the 18 years that you have known him, has he ever been physically abusive? I did not read that anywhere in your posts that he has ever shown the tendancy. Yes, he *could*, but so could anyone. Things seem hard enough without jumping into a pool that you don't have to swim in.

*jingles* for you (and you have to see by all this great response how much people are indeed thinking about you!)

[ESG]

annika, I don't think it matters that he's not been physically abusive in the past. He's doing a few things that he hasn't done in the past, and his aggression/depression/manipulation are apparently increasing - I wouldn't be sanguine in the OP's position. :eek:

My ex was never physically abusive either..........until the end. He tried to physically intimidate me once. Looked pretty stupid, too - 5'11", 180 lb Green Beret sticking his chest out at his 5'2", 125 lb wife, threatening to beat her up if she didn't shut up and do what he said. I told him to bring it on, but that he'd better make the first punch count, because I'd kill him, then call the cops. He backed down, I didn't. And I thanked heaven all over again that I'd never had kids with that @$$hole. What might he have done to them?:mad:

To the OP - your man is a coward and a manipulator. Yes, he's ill, but he's using his illness as an excuse to behave any way he wants, and that's totally unacceptable. As others have said, he's backing down because you've called his bluff. Do not think for one second that this is going to get better; that's what he wants you to think, so he can get all his ducks in a row, clean out your bank accounts and hire a lawyer before you do. Him placating you now is just a ploy - do not fall for it!!!! Be courteous, especially in front of the kids, but be busy! Get your new bank accounts set up now. Make your appointments with your top five attorneys and your new accountant now. Be ready for when he reverts to his old behaviour, and protect yourself and your kids. :yes:

[Paragon]

I have suffered from many of the same mood and anger issues that your husband seems to be suffering from. Yes, sometimes it's an excuse, but more often than not - for me - it just hurts. A lot. You grab onto control because you think you're losing everything, and it's terrifying. After all, if you're losing everything, what will it hurt to make one last-ditch attempt?

If he refuses help, I think you need to run far away before he pulls you down with him. If he's willing, though... counsellors are wonderful people, and they can sometimes help. I know that counsellors have helped my husband and I, and I have few regrets.

Whatever you choose, best wishes to you and yours. Such a difficult time.

[carolprudm]

I only read the first three pages but it really sounds like he is depressed...probably a manic depressive. I know well what it is like being married to someone who suffers from this problem. I am still married though and have been for 20 years. We've dealt with it and while things are not always perfect, we are utterly devoted to each other and being together.

Am I the only person on this thread who thinks this guy needs help rather than a kick in the butt? Yes, the kids are important as are the OP's horses and dogs...but with the right medication a person with this problem, can live normally and control their depression. IMO a marriage that can be saved, should be...for the sake of the kids and for the love that was once there.

OP..try to convince him to seek help. It's your turn to make some demands and tell him that you will leave him if he does not see a psychiatrist and get some help. I'll bet deep inside he still loves you and wants to make this work. At least try to get him to a doctor if you can. Don't endanger yourself to do it...but he does not sound dangerous from what I've read.

It is worrysome to me that the husband has taken the car and asked the OP to cut down on her business, as well as get rid of the animals. It sounds to me like he is trying to push her to be the bad guy. "She loves her horses more than me"

However, most of the advice has been "Protect yourself and the children." I think there are far to many of us who have first hand knowledge of the possible results of a marriage gone bad.
In most cases of divorce the husband's standard of living improves and the wife's and children's decline.

Our former SIL left left our older daughter $40,000 in debt. Our former BIL took all the equity built up over 20 years of marriage, including his dental practice and left SIL with her teacher's pension. Both women wanted an amicable divorce.

[ESG]

I don't think there's any such thing as an "amicable divorce". Same sort of oxymoron as "military intelligence" and "jumbo shrimp". :no:

[lark_b]

There is such a thing as an amicable divorce, but "amicable" does not mean "we never fought."

My boyfriend and his ex wife started the process of divorce in 2001. He was stationed in Germany at the time, and she took their 2 year old back to the states. He returned in 2002. There were hurt feelings and "words" on both sides, but they did not want to do anything other than the separation agreement while they were still so upset. They did not finalize their divorce until 2005 because they did not want hurt feelings to interfere with what was good for their daughter. They were never trying to "work it out," they were just trying to keep it amicable. They had and have a very functional relationship with one another and coordinate their parenting extremely well. They are actually very friendly with one another.

This is the ideal situation, though. Since the time of separation they have always lived several hundred if not thousands of miles apart, he never tried to get full custody (he spends too much time away), they had one very small child they could not use against each other even if they tried, he never tried to shirk his financial responsibilities, and (and this is the big one) they weren't married long enough to see each other change all that much. They couldn't see each other turn into someone they didn't know, and so there was very little resentment because of it.

There is such a thing as an amicable divorce, but both people have to want it and it probably requires that they still have pretty good communication and trust enough to say that they just don't feel it's a good match anymore. Once you add in all the horrible manipulation and abuse, then no, I don't think there is such a thing as amicable divorce.

[nightsong]

his demands are just a way to dominate you and the relationship. ... Sounds like a power play from a disturbed person.
Ayup. This isn't just "depression." This is SERIOUUUS. Either he gets help, somehow; or youhave to protect YUORSELF AND THE KIDS by getting away from him. Really. And you may have to placate him for a while while you get your things in order. This is just SMART.
please be very careful around him right now. He sounds very unstable from what you describe and there is really no way to foresee what an unstable person is capable of when things don't happen the way they plan or want them to.
Also, given that your income is not large, you might want to look at the things youhave to give up. Perhaps starting tht process will placate him long enough.

[Mayaty02]

wow that is just heartbreaking. IMHO he has to respect that you are who you are and he should love you for you...if that includes horses, then he has to deal with it. If there are concessions you can make, ie can you free up some of your time to do "what he wants" (don't know what that is), then maybe try that. But I'd have to agree, it sounds like you'd be better off without him.

I have two young children and have been married for almost 10 years. I always told my husband I'd have horses again once we were more financially able to do it so even though he is not a big fan, he knows that's part of me. Just as I accept that there are things that he is interested in and I am not, that come along with him. I don't try to change what makes him "him" and your husband shouldn't do that either.

My husband lived through a very tough divorce and it definitely scarred him (he was 5 I believe when they split up). If it ends up going that route for you both, just be sure to stay civil with one another for the kids sake. Always take the higher ground but protect yourself.

Best of luck to you - I hope this works out for you and your family.

[carolprudm]

I don't think there's any such thing as an "amicable divorce". Same sort of oxymoron as "military intelligence" and "jumbo shrimp". :no:
Yup, it's called wishfull thinking

[lesyl]

I think we might disagree about what a good counselor will do :). Therapy School(TM) tells us to work with what the situation IS, not what it could be. A good therapist would realize that this guy's committment to therapy is low in the first place, and that jumping on him about going to someone to deal with his depression is likley to drive him away from ANY therapy in the first place. If the therapist is able to keep this guy coming long enough to build some sort of rapport, then she might be able to suggest it once, but no good therapist nags with repeated "pleas." No better way to drive away your client than that.

But I don't think therapy will do it, personally. Therapy is not a cure-all, and it sounds like this guy is DONE. Therapy works best when you don't use it as a last-resort, when you use it before there is so much ill-will that one person (or both) actually is ready to walk away. It might even hurt at this point, by giving the kids false hope. Notmefornow has to choose for herself and decide whether SHE even wants to keep trying, but I think even the most skilled therapist would be daunted by this. Couples therapy teaches communication and problem-solving skills, and I'm not sure that will do it here.

The guy does need help, but he has made clear he does not want it. They have already been to therapy, and clearly it failed. That could have happened for any number of reasons, but it seems that this guy has had a chance, knows the possibilities for help, and is not ready to reach out for them. You can lead a horse to water, you know?
I have to agree based on my experiences with bi-polar individuals and depression. Really is difficult if the peroson is now able/willling to work with therapy.

[King's Ransom]

I don't think it's up to any of us to try and "diagnose" the husband's mental soundness, how well he may or may not respond to therapy (drugs and/or counseling), or whether this marriage stands a chance. We were asked for some advice and support, and I think we should limit our comments to that.

I cannot tell you how many times I have bitten my tongue when people jump in and tell someone YOU SHOULD LEAVE NOW! or, worse, I WOULD KICK HIS A$$ TO THE CURB. You do not KNOW what you would do, or what you will do, unless or until you are in the exact moment. And none of us can predict with ANY certainty what will happen. And the worst thing we can do is make this woman think her situation is hopeless, or that she is an idiot to try to work it out, or that we wont' support her decision -- regardless what her decision is. There is no question that ending a long-term marriage is difficult. Building a life afterward is difficult. If you've been married 18 or 20 or 25 years or more, you are no spring chicken. Life can be tough and sometimes you really miss the warmth of a man's arms around you. It is not "nothing" that you throw away when you end a long-term marriage. It is not "everything" either ... but it is certainly not "nothing."

I for one support you, notmefornow, regardless what you decide. I hope and pray that this can all work out somehow. If you find that you must leave, then I support that decision, too. I just want you to protect yourself -- stay or go -- never be in this vulnerable situation again. Build your business. Have your own money. Have a PLAN B. If he threatens to leave, be ABLE to call his bluff. Right now, it sounds like you're not. You're worried.

The first rule of negotiation is never to negotiate from a position of desperation. Negotiate from a position of power and you will be much more able to find a win/win solution -- because it will be within YOUR power to be generous.

It is foolhardy for anyone outside of this marriage to try to whip someone up emotionally or raise the level of stress and/or conflict. Everything in it's own time. No one else knows you, your husband, your children or your marriage better than you. Listen to the advice of others, but listen to your own instinct as well.

I am praying that you rest well tonight. I hope you have bought some "cooling off" time. I pray you use it well.

[ChelseaR]

What would you tell one of your children if in fifteen years or so they came to you telling you their spouse said to them the same things you have told us?

[hb]

Okay, as a person who is from a family with a history of depression and abuse, and who ended up in a brief marriage to an abusive depressed alcholic many years ago, here is my advice.

If he has backed off for now, then you are in the calm between storms. This is the time that you can act. You may be afraid that taking action of your own will start another storm, but be assured, another storm will start someday soon regardless of what you do.

Take action now to protect your children, protect your horses/pets, your assets and protect yourself.

Work on detaching emotionally from him. This will help you think straight and get your business in order. There is a chance that if you are more detached he will act nicer to try to draw you back in. Don't feel guilty about not being drawn back in.

Get off of HIS roller coaster while you can.

Regarding his depression. Yes, it is an illness. Yes, it is debilitating. However, not everyone reacts to depression by becoming a controlling jerk. Some people withdraw and internalize. Some people seek help on their own without hurting others. And yes, some people strike out and hurt others when they themselves are hurting.

He needs help and he is hurting. But that does NOT give him the right to hurt others, anymore than having a broken leg would give him the right to break someone else's leg.

The part of his personality that causes him to abuse you because he is depressed will still be there when he's not depressed, it just won't be as active. Unless he goes through some serious work on himself, for himself, his abusive side will always be there waiting for a trigger.

What I'm trying to say is there is a difference between being depressed and being an asshole. Some people are one, some are the other, and some are both.

[YoungFilly]

I am glad you changed the title of the thread. I did think that he might be looking through your history on the computer. I am glad someone else mentioned it.

But, there is a little part of me that actually feels bad for your SO. It sounds like he really doesn't want to be indebted to anyone, and sometimes people do not like to discuss their finances, or admit to feeling strain about the finances. I am not one to support abusive behavior (and I definately don't think his actions are at ALL ok), but if he strongly feels that he needs to pay down his debts, he may be feeling strains that he is not really communicating to you. I know that I do not like being in debt to anyone, expecially if was a family member. That would cause me some serious anxiety.

It sounds from your last post you are not a push over, and you are still pretty upset about this last encounter. It sounds like you have a game plan. Trust yourself in this matter, I am sure you are going to make it through this.

Take care, and keep talking to us. :)

[olympicprincess]

I've thought about whether or not he would look on this board and have decided to change the name of this thread. If he did see it, he'd know for sure that it was him and would be furious that I'd publicized the situation.
Each time you're done on here, go back to your homepage and then clear the history.
If you saved this board under you're favorites, delete it. Then it will be hard for him to find (assuming since he's not a horse person, he has not memorized the name of this board ;)).

[TripleRipple]

I don't think it's up to any of us to try and "diagnose" the husband's mental soundness, how well he may or may not respond to therapy (drugs and/or counseling), or whether this marriage stands a chance. We were asked for some advice and support, and I think we should limit our comments to that.
.

Of course not - nor do we have to do so. She already told us that in the OP that he was diagnosed with depression (has been prescribed meds that he refuses to take, and won't do to counseling either). She asked for advice, what any of us have done in similar situations, etc. She knows that his mental state is totally relevant to what is going on in the marriage. You think it is responsible to not mention possibilities in that regard and suggest she follow up with professionals to check it out? She has asked what would we do, what have we done in such situations. I think it irresponsible to censor our suggestions and concerns, unless she asks us to do so.

You can't separate the illness from the behavior that is destroying the marriage. Further, she gives more examples of confused behavior. Rest assured that whatever we suggest or "advise", she is free to disregard.

I see no reason at this point to treat her like a child and offer only platitudes. I feel she is a responsible adult, sincerely seeking other opinions and I have faith that she can select which theories or likelihoods or possibilities may apply in this case, or seek out pros who can answer questions raised here.

[mbamissaz]

I don't think it's up to any of us to try and "diagnose" the husband's mental soundness, how well he may or may not respond to therapy (drugs and/or counseling), or whether this marriage stands a chance. We were asked for some advice and support, and I think we should limit our comments to that.

I think everyone here is just trying to be supportive and many have urged the OP to be careful, including myself. I come from a background in working with the mentally ill, so whether or not he actually falls into this category, it is ALWAYS better to be "safe" than "sorry". Not a "diagnosis" but just a warning from someone who has seen people snap under pressure...and it's never pretty.

[mbamissaz]

Triple, I guess you and I are on the same wavelength this morning!

[Wendy123]

Get his demands in writing pronto and the threat to leave you and the kids high and dry. Start documenting EVERYTHING...how much time he spends at home, how "involved" he is with the kids, how much money he is making, what assets he has, bank accounts, who are his clients (to supeona if he says they are no longer using him), etc.

I'd honestly say that you want to go into counseling before making such drastic changes to life. Go even if he doesn't....more documentation. Get them into counseling....more documentation.

Even if he "recants", I would start documenting everything.

I can't say just dump him because truthfully it really sucks especially financially! I agree with the others that meeting his demands won't work and he will want more later on or he'll take the highway!

If he threatens you physically, document it any way you can even calling the police to make a report.

[MySparrow]

I am so sorry that you are facing this huge challenge in your marriage. As a child of divorced parents, I am even more sorry for your children, and I hope that they are reminded daily that nothing of the "grownup problems" besetting their home is their fault.

Is there a chance that your horses could help pay for themselves? Are you well-enough trained to offer riding lessons, or pony rides for birthday parties? There would, of course, be an expenditure of money for insurance up front, but it can be a lucrative little business once it gets started. You couldn't support your family on it, but perhaps if you and your husband can find common ground on which to rebuild your marriage, letting the horses contribute to their own upkeep could be part of the solution.

Counseling, a good lawyer, documentation -- these are time- and energy-consuming but absolutely necessary. Not only will they help protect you if you are unable to save your marriage, they will also help you spot patterns in your relationship that could usefully be changed or reinforced in order to save it.

Good luck. We are all jingling for you.

[saje]

My husband has depression and self esteem issues. We've been married 15 years, together for about 26 years. Some of it has been a VERY long haul, and I was ready to throw in the towel several times. Fortunately, he asked me one day if I really thought he needed counseling, and was pretty well shocked at the vehemence of my YES! reply. He got it, is now on meds, and things are much much much better.

HOWEVER- never once in all those years of anger and unhappiness did he try to tell me what I could and could not do. We don't have kids, but we have many animals and always have. I say we because he does love them, but they are my choice and my responsibility. If left to himself he might have 1 cat, not my 8 horses, 3 dogs and 7 cats.

**I must repeat** Even at his lowest ebb he NEVER suggested I should give up riding or horses or any of the other animals or anything else I loved to do. He ALWAYS had my basic happiness in mind, even when he was making us both miserable with his uncontrollable moods and anger.

Your husband needs help for depression etc most definitely. But blaming his essential controlling behavior and abusive cycling on depression is a cop-out, I'm afraid. Taking his misery out on you is bad enough, but pouring it out over your kids is absolutely inexcuseable, and it needs to stop. IMO that means that he needs to go, at least until he gets a better handle on himself and his life. Your kids do NOT need to be burdened with his illness and verbal abuse.

I'm so sorry you are faced with this, I hope you and your kids can find some peace soon.

[Walk_N_Gal88]

Everyone on here has given you sound advice. Whether you take it or not is up to you, but I'm asking you to please be careful either way. Do whatever you have to do to protect your kids, you, and your critters. Don't fall for the "But baby, I love you!" line after everything he's said and done. As someone else said, I have the distinct feeling that this is just the calm before the storm.

Jingling like crazy for you and your family!!!!

[notmefornow]

Just an update.

I've had a counselor recommended to us and he's now agreed to go. I'm not sure this marraige can be fixed, but it certainly can't unless we have a neutral third party. This person helped a friend of mine who was going through a similar issue last year; ultimately they reconciled.

I see an attorney on Thursday so that I can better understand my rights.

Thanks.

[King's Ransom]

Good work! Look at what you have already accomplished -- I am assuming you still have your horses and dogs, right? He did not leave the night he threatened. It's Tuesday and you still have money in your account? He has agreed to see a counselor and you have an appointment with an attorney. I'd say you're doing VERY well. And perhaps the most amazing thing at this point is that the sky has not fallen, nor has the earth opened up to swallow you whole! All this goes in the "win" column!

Keep moving forward. You DID buy some time. The proof of the pudding will be in what you do with it. Don't sit around and wait for the next crisis. Get that business of yours revved up. See the lawyer. Get a PLAN B for the horses and dogs in case there is another crisis moment. While you're at it, get a PLAN B for yourself and the kids. Find your strength.

We're all proud of you. You hang in there. You're doing GREAT!

[DocNDabby]

WEll done, NotMeForNow!

All I can do is echo what King's Ransom has said...that is EXCELLENT advice.

And, to say: keep it going one step at a time and believe in YOURSELF...and keep talking to us if you can. You're doing GREAT! I, for one, am proud of you...and jingles are coming your way!

[DocNDabby]

WEll done, NotMeForNow!

All I can do is echo what King's Ransom has said...that is EXCELLENT advice.

And, to say: keep it going one step at a time and believe in YOURSELF...and keep talking to us if you can. You're doing GREAT! I, for one, am proud of you...and jingles are coming your way!

[DocNDabby]

WEll done, NotMeForNow!

All I can do is echo what King's Ransom has said...that is EXCELLENT advice.

And, to say: keep it going one step at a time and believe in YOURSELF...and keep talking to us if you can. You're doing GREAT! I, for one, am proud of you...and jingles are coming your way!

[DocNDabby]

OOOOOPPPSSS

SORRY for the multiple posts! I have no clue why it happened...?

[TripleRipple]

Triple, I guess you and I are on the same wavelength this morning!

Yep:) And probably because I too have a little bit of that background you mentioned (in my case, an old degree, and of course, life experiences with people I know). I even saw someone snap and die within the last year; long story, people did try, some things can't be averted. But not everyone has seen what you or I may have, so I always toss out possibilities just in case.

notmefornow - good luck with the counseling (and your advance protection planning with the lawyer). This is all you can do, other than now hope for a good outcome of an intact marriage. If it doesn't work out, then at least you have laid some groundwork for you and your children's future.

[notmefornow]

I can't even begin to thank everyone on this board for their support and good wishes. It overwhelms me to get so much sympathy from people that I've never met.

Right now, we're proceeding in a more civil and controlled manner. My husband has moments of lucidity when he understands that he has acted irrationally. He says he is greatful that I am arranging for us to get help. He no longer is demanding that we give the dogs away and he hasn't said anything about the horses so I haven't mentioned them.

Of course, this is not the first time that we've had these type of confrontations. This is simply the worst. I am hoping that seeing a therapist will also help me better understand what will be the right choice for each of us. I am going to continue to keep my options open, but am going to start preparing to strike off on my own should that be the ultimate solution.

[FlashGordon]

Notmefornow, you are a brave and seemingly level-headed lady and I give you a lot of credit. I would DEFINITELY go on with therapy and hopefully your hubby and be treated seperately and get on some meds??

I can understand your desire to work through this-- he is, afterall, your children's father and the man you married, love, and have spent 18 years with.

Just keep in mind a "plan B" in case things all fall apart again. You seem like you have your wits about you so I have no doubt you can get your finances etc. in order and be prepared to take action if necessary.

Hang in there, we are all thinking of you and your family.

[moonriverfarm]

Being prepared doesn't lock you into leaving. But it protects you IN CASE.
Think of it as a savings account for your future.
Dot your "i"s and cross your "t"s and above all, keep yourself and your kids safe. They don't need to know the details of what is going on. You are there for their protection and safety....remember that. Play smart.

[circusponydreams]

I've been thinking about you today, notformenow. It sounds like you're really covering your bases, and I'm glad you're getting through to Mr. notformenow, at least for the moment. Good luck. :yes:

[annikak]

NFMN, Thinking about you!
Things seem to be moving- which is good. Good Luck on Thursday- a good therapist is worth their weight in gold- and since you have it on personal reccomendation, perfect! Hope it works as well for you. He seems to be coming around a bit, and seeing that he needs help- a huge step. You taking care of you, as others have said, does not mean you are leaving, its covering bases, which, given what you have gone thru this week, is only intelligent.

Keep us posted, and know we are thinking about you.:yes:

[A. P.]

In addition to getting copies of everything, stashing some cash away etc, I would tell him "I am not doing ANYTHING to make you happier until you SEE A PSYCHIATRIST... after three months in therapy, we can talk".

This puts the ball back in his court.

[fargo]

I have followed this thread and I must say I still don't have good gut feelings about the way things are turning out with your husband. Did he give you the car back that he took away only a few days ago? Can you expand your business again? In other words are all the things you have given into over the years turned back/around? I think not. I think it is a silence before the storm. He's caving in just a bit to prevent you from going and doing just the bits and pieces that he should do to prevent you from going (at least the things he thinks that are necessary I guess). BUT he is still the man that asked these things from you and can ask them again. Please still follow up on all the advice given here to expand your business, take a lawyer, take your own account. Not to diminish your life in any way but it just feels like a movie that won't end right if you don't get out or get him out. Just my instinct and gut feeling. I may be wrong but please look out for yourself and your children en pets. Be prepared and take measures to be able to go or have him go. If not necessary in the end, well that would be nice indeed. If necessary, well then at least you're prepared. Power to you and hugs to keep sane and safe.
Edited to add: You ARE doing great. But please keep aware (like you are) and keep your options open.

[annikak]

Thinking about you....Jingles!!!

[fargo]

Any news yet? Jingles and hugs for you and your loved ones.

[saje]

Hoping the therapy visit went well, and hoping things have calmed down a bit for you ~~

[ESG]

Thinking about you and wishing good things. :)