Would you eat....?

[Kitari]

Horse meat. Yes you read right. Would you eat horse meat? Yes, no, maybe? Do tell and please keep it CIVIL

[Dazednconfused]

Yes, if:

It was the only thing available
Or it tasted unbelievably good
Or It was a part of my culture

[Simkie]

I would absolutely be willing to try it. I doubt I'd be willing to snack on one of my own horses, though.

[Jaegermonster]

I don't think I ever could unless I were really and truly on the verge of starvation and there was nothing else. I mean, no leaves, no grass nothing.
I know other countries do and it's their culture and whatever and I respect that, but I just couldn't do it. Nor could I eat any of my dogs, although I know other cultures do that too.

[gf]

No, but I don't eat cow meat, or pig meat, or chicken meat or any other kind for that matter ;)

[Kitari]

Me, i would eat it. I have no problem with trying new meats. I've had gator and squid for instance. can you say yummy? If I were able to I would eat horse meat. I would eat my own horse no but yes i would be perfectly willing to give it a shot

[gazenna]

There are several things I would never eat, and horse is no.1 on that list, and cherries are no.2.I'd rather strave......

[fullmoon fever]

Me, i would eat it. I have no problem with trying new meats. I've had gator and squid for instance. can you say yummy? If I were able to I would eat horse meat. I would eat my own horse no but yes i would be perfectly willing to give it a shot

Why are you unable to? Can you not buy it where you live?

*just curious as there is horsemeat available at butcher shops not far from me, but it is very expensive*

[Alagirl]

Why are you unable to? Can you not buy it where you live?

*just curious as there is horsemeat available at butcher shops not far from me, but it is very expensive*


I am hungry right now...I'd eat the proverbial southbound end of a northbound horse right now...together with a slice of Flipper...Surf and Turf reaching new a meaning....

But anywho...somw places you can't buy a good cut of pork (other than chops and sausages) and the three pieces of veal and lamb look pathetic...horse...you are kidding....

[Jewels]

I'd eat it. I doubt it would bother me. I can add it to my list of kangaroo, kudu, and alligator. :cool:

[Spirit_Rider16]

I don't think I would be able to personally, but I don't have a problem with people who do. It's definitely a culture thing, I think; after all, I wouldn't be able to eat a dog or a cat either, but there are certainly cultures that do, or cultures who would think I was strange for eating cow meat.

[Kate66]

I'm impressed with the responses so far. When I read the post I thought "uh oh, here comes another trainwreck." Perhaps it still will be." I don't eat meat at all anymore, but if I did, I don't think I would necessarily relish eating horsemeat, but mostly because it's different from my social norm upbringing. Having said that, if there was nothing else (and I was still a meat eater) I would and I have no moral objection to the idea.

[glitterless]

I couldn't. But then I couldn't eat dog or cat meat either. I've read stories about cowboys in the old west eating their horses after they died or were destroyed. I definitely couldn't eat my friend! Maybe I'd change my mind if I were literally starving. Hopefully none of us will ever have to make that decisioin.

[shakeytails]

Maybe. I probably couldn't choke down a horsemeat steak, but I could probably eat sausage made from horse. I guess it would probably depend on how much adult beverage I'd had to drink when it was offered. I certainly couldn't eat one of my own, except for maybe the Hackney pony we call devil spawn....

[Coup De Des]

Would I eat horse meat?


answer: HELL NO.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

I'd rather starve than eat horse meat. Seriously. There are other things I would not KNOWINGLY eat, on principle. One is veal, I WILL NOT EAT veal. I would not eat dog or cat either. However, I love eating red meat like beef and lamb. I hate that I love it, but I do.

[J Swan]

I hate horsemeat when I was a kid.
(I spent several years of my childhood in Belgium.)

It was normal, so I didn't think anything of it.

[Mayaty02]

nope - I am not into eating pets :) But them I am fussy and would probably starve if stranded on a deserted island because i don't eat seafood either.

[saje]

Call me a hypocrite, but I would eat horsemeat, though I don't think I could eat dog or cat. Maybe dog, but definitely not cat. I've had rabbit, snake, snails, squid, beef tongue (on the odd list) and I love pretty much all the standard beef/lamb/pork/poultry/fish. I even love veal, though I don't order it often as I feel too guilty about it.

[Sakura]

I am a meat eater, but not horse meat. Not for sentimental reasons either... mostly because I have a good idea of the medications we give our horses and being a cancer/disease-phobic I just don't think I could eat it... now if we are talking free-range...

[county]

I've eaten it when I was younger back in the 60's when I lived in Az. wasn't unusual foir people to eat it there at all. Its no differant then eating any other species of livestock.

[Tasker]

I don't think I could...

[ponies123]

no, i too would rather starve than eat horse. then again - i don't eat any meat and don't think i will ever again but if it came down to me starving to death i'd probably eat cow or pig. never horse though.

[clint]

I read a very interesting article about a study done on what the Donner party ate, and was more repulsed by the fact that they ate all their horses than the possibility that they ate the people who had died. So my answer would be a "no".

[county]

I wonder how many would actually let themselves die rather then eat horse meat? When push comes to shove and your at deaths door I have a feeling many would eat to stay alive.

[FridayzFortune]

If I didn't know what it was and it tasted good, yes. If I knew what it was, no I don't think I'd be able to. Unless I was starving, then I would.

[philosoraptor]

Only if I was truly starving to death for many days, no chance of rescue anytime soon, and it came down to eating horsemeat or losing my life. VERY unlikely.

If I was somewhere that was lush enough to support a horse living there with me, there would be other choices for food. Therefore I just can't imagine a scenario where this could even happen.

Question: In this scenario we have to cause the horse's death in order to eat the meat? Or are we washed ashore on a deserted island with a case of horse-meat Spam?

[county]

I think you can make up what ever you want I took the original question to be of the yes or no type nature.

[PalominoMorgan]

I can't see the day in my lifetime where I ever would. I would have to be starving for quite a long time before I had to resort to that. I presently carting around a very decent supply of fat reserves for my body to use up first. If it were somehow literally life and death I probably could, but I don't see how that'll ever happen in my lifetime.

(Though I do like beef, pork, and chicken and occasionally venison. Seafood is yummy, but no pets and no lamb/goose/duck for taste reasons. I just don't care for it.)

[Purely4Pleasure]

I'd have to be pretty hungry, I think. Or in a country where they were "livestock" more than companion/riding animals. If I were here in my normal life I probably wouldn't - both for sentimental reasons and for lack of knowledge of what drugs might be in the meat. (I eat plenty of meat, but I go for organic/range/drug-free.)

I wouldn't eat dog or cat - no carnivores. Or scavengers, for that matter. Of course, if I were TRULY starving, probably all bets would be off!

[Tiempo]

Nope,not me,not unless I was starving.

But then I'm just picky,I love meat,but basically cow (but NOT veal),pig and chicken.

I don't care for lamb,turkey,seafood (just a little here and there),goat,etc..it all just tastes "off" to me.

And I'm the only person I know who thinks venison tastes absolutely disgusting,in fact I've tried many kinds of wild game and it all tastes rancid to me.

[Knothead]

Wihout having read ALL of the replies to this post, it reminds me of something...

When I was a very little girl, there was a major beef industry shortage(?) huge price increase...I can't remember why. People were up in arms over the price of beef (sort of like today's gas prices). I also was the little girl that came out of the womb loving, adoring, and praying for horses.
There was a local butcher shop, in response to the beef industry hiking the prices so high, that was offering horse meat for sale. My parents, being my parents, went over with us kids in tow, to purchsae some of the horsemeat to try. This, all the while, knowing how I felt about horses. Every minute of my waking hours was spent drawing, fantasizing, reading, etc. about horses. Out front of the store, and I remember this clear as day, were protesters - animal/horse lovers. There was a horse out front all done up with fake blood and knives sticking of him. I remember he was gray (white). I stood out front petting the horse the whole time one of parents was inside buying the meat.
They came home and cooked it and made me eat it (my parents, both coming from poverty, made us eat EVERYTHING they cooked and every last bite of it, too....there were no choices).
I don't remember the taste.
Would I eat it today? Don't know...I doubt it. I used to eat venison when I was young, but the last time I was eating it (and -- ha ha - found out what it was) I couldn't finish it. I'm normally not squeamish about those things, so I surprised myself.
I guess it's like asking would I eat dog meat as they do in some Asian cultures. No, I don't think I could.

[Tamara in TN]

Horse meat. Yes you read right. Would you eat horse meat? Yes, no, maybe? Do tell and please keep it CIVIL

yes of course, should it be necessary ...we already kill and eat our own cattle and pigs (and sell the extra)...our ducks and chickens give us eggs...every year we fish our stocked ponds back and freeze catfish and bass for the winter....we grow vegetables when the mood strikes and we have time...or buy them from other farmers and freeze them for winter use....

in a worse case scenario the horses would be the last to be eaten (right before the dogs) simply because horses can pull the wagon and carts and bring supplies in and out (and I don't currently have an ox team :) ) the meat itself would lend to jerky and smoking better than some others....


in fact my 8th grade daughters teacher was talking about survival tactics (in I think relation to plains indians I think) and he said that there was only one child whose family would not suffer too much in a crisis...and that was ours :winkgrin:

persons who have eaten the German Sauerbraten with big pieces of pig,should know that was originally a recipie for horse meat,hence the heavy juniper and 4 day marinade :) if you have eaten that you already will have a taste of the horse meat...:yes:

Tamara in TN

[2Horse]

Nope. If it was the only meat around I'd become a Vegan.

[Sannois]

I had it in Canada years ago, it was not beef thats for sure, it wasnt good.. Would I eat it just to eat it, No! If I was starving to death, yes, You people who say you would never eat anything like that or seafood or pets if you were truly starving, are either living in a fantasy world or really had no desire to live. You would eat what you could to live.
Hey how about .. oh never mind! :no:

[cryslea]

I would never order it at a restaurant, that's for sure.

As for eating it if I were starving, well... if it were conveniently packaged and in the supermarket, sure. But then I'd have choices of other things, too...

But if I had to kill the horse? Or if I had to cut up the dead horse? Ugh. I don't know if I could do it. Same with any other animal. The only reason I can eat meat is because I don't have to slaughter it myself.

[Adamantane]

Once visited a friend whose grandparents raised a couple cattle as a hobby and the friend's grandfather pointed them out by name, say Fred the Steer and Charlie the Steer. Just before we went in to eat Sunday dinner, his grandfather mentioned that the roast beef we were to eat came from Charlie's brother.

Roast beef is a favorite of mine but I don't like having even the most casual of relationships with my entrees. It was very difficult to eat Charlie's brother. :yes:

I wouldn't mind sampling a forkful of horsemeat just to know what it tastes like, but only if it were from some anonymous horse from far, far away, and that horse wasn't slaughtered specifically for me to sample. (The less conventional meats I have eaten -- buffalo, venison -- all have been disappointments because they didn't taste particularly good.)

In Peru, guinea pigs are eaten as meat. I used to raise guinea pigs and somehow the thought of eating one is much more repellent to me than tasting horsemeat, although I did once eat rabbit (also a disappointment).

[jrrider]

I was once over seas and the family I was staying with ordered it for me for dinner. I didn't know at the time and I did eat most of it. It was not very good and I would never eat it if I had known. I have a very hard time eating meat to begin with. I don't have a problem with others eating it. I just personally don't really like any meat.

[Kitari]

Why are you unable to? Can you not buy it where you live?

*just curious as there is horsemeat available at butcher shops not far from me, but it is very expensive*

I have no idea where to get it. Im in Mont, AL and as far as I know not even mr.meats sells horse meat.

I am very pleased with how this thread is going. people can be civil if they so wish to. a great time to give yourself a pat on the back!

[amastrike]

Yes, right before I ate my two year old nephews.

(In other words, absolutely not.)

[Sassenach]

Nope - but I'm a vegetarian so I don't eat meat anyway

[fullmoon fever]

I don't think I would order it since I think it would likely taste similar to moose (which I don't care for). If someone served it to me and I liked it, well, all bets are off. I absolutely LOVE rabbit (domestic, not wild) and properly prepared venison. I've also had bear (very greasy :dead:) and various other wild things.

I think the truly worst things I ever ate were my grandmother's specialities: stuffed beef heart; tripe and onions; calves brains. I did, however, like blood pudding, headcheese (basically boiled pig head) and beef tongue.

A few years back I was perusing the menu for an upcoming seminar that my then boss was attending. One of the choices (5 star restaurant in Quebec) was "Cheval de 'somethingorother'". I'm not sure what he had. ;)

[Adamantane]

Well people can be for or against something here without altogether jumping the tracks (unless it is NH or Rollkur:winkgrin:).

You were expecting trouble?:eek: I do notice that you're using an alter, unless by a truly improbable coincidence the very first thing you happened to think about after discovering and signing onto COTH was the consumption of horsemeat.:D I know that's the topic that pops into my head first thing whenever I go to the barn:rolleyes:.

[Kitari]

Actually. On the past couple forums I have joined, I Post the horsemeat question. I actually fell behind because i forgot to Post my other question which I shall have up in a couple minutes.
If im an alter I will be shocked cause I sure didnt know.
Yes I expected trouble with this topic, after concerning what it is wouldnt you as well? Previously I have had some nasty comments which either by a mod or the person themselves it was deleted. This topic throught the time i have been posting it has done relativly well, only going off topic in one board. ( i still dont know how that happened)

If you so wish look me up on HGS. I am using the same name as here and you will see this topic in the list of topics i have made

[Chanter]

I've been to/lived in 28 countries. You do not want to know what all I have eaten. I do not even want to muse over what all I have eaten, which is not confined to animal & seafood, but insect too. :eek: I am normally a fussy eater, so God only knows how I survived. Though amazing what one will eat if hungry enough.

Would I eat horse, yes, though I would never simply order it off a menu. :no:

[Kitari]

I think trying new stuff should be an aventure of sorts. I have tried tripe for instance, i dont like it. mostly the texture turned me away. i have had, sword fish before and angel fish tacos. gator. squid. i would like to try viel.

[msrobin]

Would I eat horse meat?


answer: HELL NO.

I am with you all the way that is nasty starving is much better.

[chicki]

i would like to try viel.

Wow, I can't beleive anyone would admit that on an animal board. Do you not know what those calves go through or do you just not care? I am sorry but that is one I cannot ignore.

And no, I wouldn't eat horses.

[county]

So tell me what do they go through?

[Pandarus33]

I was in Spain on a group trip when this happened. We were at a cocktail party with the group trying all sorts of appetizers. That was when I first tried Calamari thinking it was onion rings. I was eating what I thought were tiny meatballs when I noticed the tour guide making a gesture in my direction. He knew that I was a rider and he had also ridden as a child in South Africa. I finally figured out that he was making "horse gestures" to tell me that I was eating horse meat! I had thought the meat was a little grainy and thought it was just low-grade beef. The sauce covered up most of the taste of the meat. I just quietly put down my plate and tried not to vomit right there on the persian rug. Quite an experience!

[chicki]

Do you really not know?
You know it's funny, I am taking this animal welfare and behavior class at university right now. I live in Alberta, ie in the heartland of cattle country, were agriculture is HUGE. I was very interested in this course because I thought I would get a new perspective. I always thought, peta types must exagerate farming practices ect. Most of the people in my class are farmers and so I was expecting that I would see that what peta or animal rights people put forth is really exagerated. We all had to do presentations on "controversial" animal agricultural methods from beak trimming to dehorning to yes, veal production. Lets put it this way...it IS as bad and as real as you see on those animal rights websites. They are made anemic and they DO live in tiny boxes. There were some welfare changes made in the last little while but overall, I would imagine that life is nothing short of hell for those individuals hauled from their moms after birth. Honestly, on the first day of class my prof said "some people choose to become vegetarian based on ignorance ie they don't really know how animals are REALLY raised ie it isn't as bad as "they " say"". I was thinking:"great. maybe it isn't as bad as they say, I'd love to see this side of the story". HA well lets just say if I ever doubted my choice it was only strongly reaffirmed after taking this class. Jeez I had a hard time sleeping after some of those presentations!
kyla

[J Swan]

It's veal.

They're raised all over the place here - and I see nothing that indicates they "go through anything". And they most certainly do not live in tiny boxes.

Veal tastes good.


i would like to try viel.

Wow, I can't beleive anyone would admit that on an animal board. Do you not know what those calves go through or do you just not care? I am sorry but that is one I cannot ignore.

And no, I wouldn't eat horses.

[county]

Ya actually I do know I've been in the livestock business all my life and I'm 55. Great conditions? Not IMO but not any real differance then any species that are raised in factory farms. Thats why I've never figured out the people who are in an uproar about a species they personally don't eat but could care less about other species and eat them. To me its either right or its wrong for all I don't place the welfare of one over another.

[blue&blond]

I think I could/would only eat it if I was starving and I had to eat it to stay alive.

[Natalie]

I'm not a picky eater. Generally, I'm willing to try pretty much anything at least once--can't say you don't like something if you've never tasted it. ;) That said, for some reason, the thought of eating horse is making me kind of queasy. So no, I wouldn't order it off a menu. Can't say I'll never try it though.

[chicki]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ya actually I do know I've been in the livestock business all my life and I'm 55. Great conditions? Not IMO but not any real differance then any species that are raised in factory farms. Thats why I've never figured out the people who are in an uproar about a species they personally don't eat but could care less about other species and eat them. To me its either right or its wrong for all I don't place the welfare of one over another

Well I agree with you, however it seems almost worse to me because these calves are raised differently from other cattle. Most young ones have some time with the dam and are out on pasture. However, yes there is no difference between species, and pigs go through the same thing and so do alot of chickens.
I probably shouldn't have said anything, it just makes me sick to my stomache thinking about what people do.

[county]

Beef calfs spend their early months with the dam on pasture but veal is almost 100% dairy calfs the vast majority are taken at birth or soon after from the dam. Some raised for veal some for dairy beef.

[chicki]

Right so I don't think it would be wrong to say that the welfare of dairy calves is much worse than the welfare of beef calves, during the first few months that is. Dairy calves don't live much longer than that, so that is essentially their entire lives spent this way.

[Huntertwo]

No, I'm a vegetarian anyways...;)

[deltawave]

Probably not, unless there was nothing else available, but mostly that's because I am really not much for "different" meats. For instance, I can't stand the taste of venison, buffalo, etc. Don't even try to tell me it tastes just like beef, LOL! I am not much of a food adventurer, all in all.

For those of you who nobly volunteer to starve rather than eat horsemeat, I invite you to spend a day with some starving children. Might put a major tarnish on that moral superiority. And if it were YOUR child? I know what I'd do. Life isn't pretty sometimes--it always astounds me how some individuals seem to think members of our own species are of less value than animals. We are the only ones who do so...we, the "superior" species.

Put in a similar situation, I don't know any other omnivorous critter that would scruple for one instant about eating US. :)

[county]

Actually the majority of dairy calves aren't used as veal only about 15% are down from about 25% at its peak. Virtually all the heifers are used as milking replacements. The bulls are used as veal and dairy beef which in some cases are upwards of two years old before slaughtered.

[17handtb]

I wouldn't. I'm a vegetarian anyway.

And for anyone who'd like to learn more about veal and factory farming:

http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery.htm (many veal calves ARE kept in tiny, dark veal crates (http://www.freefarmanimals.org/gallery/index_vc.htm)- the photos are heartbreaking, and symbolize what factory farming really is. And this organization isn't PETA: they're not trying to get people to stop eating meat or dairy altogether, but instead, trying to stop the widespread abuses inherent in factory farming.)

[chicki]

Interesting. However, for the 15 percent, which is still ALOT of calves, their welfare has been significantly compromised and by eating veal you are essentially voting with your dollar.

[county]

Sounds fair to me I love veal.

[findeight]

I probably have had it in Europe as generic "steak", certainly wouldn't deliberately order it.

I actually do more of the organic/antibiotic/hormone free stuff these days while at home...and lost most of my allergies. Not that big a meat eater anyway. And I don't like veal.

But I do like a good steak occasionally-long as I am sure it's from a bovine.

[Trails]

I went to visit a family on a Sunday and was invited for dinner. They have a small white pony by the name of Rasputin so I brought up some carrots. When I arrived, I could see Rasputin in the back field so decided to visit first and give him the carrots when he was closer to the barn. I was invited for dinner and graciously accepted.
The husband BBQ some steaks and mine was so tender I could cut it with a fork. It was an awesome meal. We sat around talking for an hour or so and just before I was leaving I mentioned that I had some carrots for Rasputin. They looked at each other and then at the BBQ.
I had just eaten Rasputin - that was a new white pony in the field.
Yes, I was very upset. If I had known I would not have stayed for dinner.

I would not eat horse meat knowingly at this time in my life. If I lived in another country and horse meat was like our beef cattle or horse meat was the only meat available then that may be different. But presently the answer is no.

[chicki]

Well hey if you can live with yourself then awesome. Sometimes I wish I could ignore those innocent lives when I smell a good steak cooking.

[county]

Oh I assure you I can live with myself very very easily. I've devoted my life to raising livestock and caring for them. And I love eating meat.

[goeslikestink]

how do you know you havent eaten it ? if its exported as it is then lets say you go on holiday to blah blah -- and eat beef or is it beef lookalike as i do beleive horsmeat taste like beef --

so my answer no i wouldnt given the choice

[Jersey Fresh]

I would definately try it. I've had deer, elk, moose, gator, beef tongue, ostrich and rabbit among other strange things. Not all of them I would eat again but I at least tried them before I knocked 'em.

However, I will not eat veal.I don't have a problem eating an animal that was grown and slaughtered properly, but veal I just can't accept.

[chicki]

So county, do you raise your own veal?
You know I really shouldn't say anything. To each his own. At least you do it yourself. It just has always baffled me how a person could torture a baby animal simply for the pleasure of a good meal. I just fail to comprehend how a person could do that when it is completely unnecissary. Can you imagine if someone on this board said "hey..I am going to take my newborn foal and rip it away from mom and birth and keep it in a tiny stall so it is unable to move and exhibit normal behaviors because the meat is just SO tender and I just love the taste of it. I will feed it and water it and interact with it until it reaches a few months old, then ill take its life so I can have a nice tasty meal ...mmmmm". We would all be totally horrified. Why is it totally ok to do it to cattle? It just totally baffles me.I get if you genuinly don't know what these animals have to endure for your little dinner party but if you do, and you still buy it....I just don't know. I don't get that lack of compassion ESPECIALLY from someone who is claims to like animals and obviously is aware of their sentience and some aspects of their physiology. I am sorry for the rant, it's somewhat off topic but sometimes I just can't help myself.

[county]

No i don't raise veal I do raise beef cattle. I know people who raise veal but none that torture them. Any cases of animal torture I would report. If people choose to raise foals to eat? I have no problem with it unless of course they torture them.

[chicki]

Well the traditional method of raising veal cattle would be considered cruelty to animals if it were applied to an animal we consider a pet. I don't make that distinction because they are all mammals with fairly high levels of sentience and a very similiar physiological makeup. How we view the purpose of an animal really has no bearing on it's capacity to suffer, wether you wanna believe that or not.

[county]

Actually virtually every species would be considered cruelty to a pet for the vast majority of animals and poultry raised for meat in this country. But I don't consider veal pets.

[darkmoonlady]

I wonder how many would actually let themselves die rather then eat horse meat? When push comes to shove and your at deaths door I have a feeling many would eat to stay alive.

How realistic is it to even ask that? Honestly I would not eat a horse, or a dog or a cat, or for that matter any exotic animal. I think the different industries surrounding exotic meats are abhorrent. We are civilized enough to have animals raised specifically for consumption. Horses aren't on that list. Neither are lions (which a restaurant in L. A. tried to serve up under heated protest). As for the question the odds of me being in some sort of survival situation where my life depended on eating something I wouldn't eat for moral reasons any other time is ludicrous. Unless the plot of some movie like Saw were to happen I rather doubt it would ever be an issue

[county]

I agree I don't think it would be an issue either. It was just a thought and a question . Hence the ? behind it.

[J Swan]

I'll say again - I see veal calves all the time and none of them are kept like that.

I grew up on and around farms and have no illusions about where my food comes from. I don't torture anything - nor do I support inhumane practices.

Choo choo - hear comes the train. Now that this is turning into another "I'm more moral than you are", complete with AR babble, I think my stop is coming up.



So county, do you raise your own veal?
You know I really shouldn't say anything. To each his own. At least you do it yourself. It just has always baffled me how a person could torture a baby animal simply for the pleasure of a good meal. I just fail to comprehend how a person could do that when it is completely unnecissary. Can you imagine if someone on this board said "hey..I am going to take my newborn foal and rip it away from mom and birth and keep it in a tiny stall so it is unable to move and exhibit normal behaviors because the meat is just SO tender and I just love the taste of it. I will feed it and water it and interact with it until it reaches a few months old, then ill take its life so I can have a nice tasty meal ...mmmmm". We would all be totally horrified. Why is it totally ok to do it to cattle? It just totally baffles me.I get if you genuinly don't know what these animals have to endure for your little dinner party but if you do, and you still buy it....I just don't know. I don't get that lack of compassion ESPECIALLY from someone who is claims to like animals and obviously is aware of their sentience and some aspects of their physiology. I am sorry for the rant, it's somewhat off topic but sometimes I just can't help myself.

[chicki]

I think your missing my piont county. I am assuming you meant practices instead of species? If you look up the definition of cruelty in a dictionary, I doubt it says anything along the lines of "experienced only by "pets and people". I think most people are smart enough to figure out that it isn't only pet animals that can suffer. If you wanna go through life telling yourself that cruelty cannot be experienced by or is irrelevant in any animal not deemed a pet, then that would certainly explain your lack of guilt in regards to supporting the veal industry. And on top of that it is an incredibly ignorant veiwpoint.

[chicki]

You know what J swan, your right I am going to stop commenting now. I know this is going nowhere good. I shouldn't have said anything, sometimes I just can't seem to stop myself. Just please ignore my previous posts.
thanks
Kyla

[county]

Well if anyones ignorant I guess I have to go with you since you decided personal insults are in order. If you read you'll see at no time have I said cruelty to animals is in anyway acceptable. Fact is I said its not.

[J Swan]

I applaud your passion - and I enjoy reading everyone's posts - even if I don't agree with the viewpoint. I think you should continue to speak your mind (even if malcontents like me get huffy about it)
:-)

You know what J swan, your right I am going to stop commenting now. I know this is going nowhere good. I shouldn't have said anything, sometimes I just can't seem to stop myself. Just please ignore my previous posts.
thanks
Kyla

[AstonMartin]

i would like to try viel.

Wow, I can't beleive anyone would admit that on an animal board. Do you not know what those calves go through or do you just not care? I am sorry but that is one I cannot ignore.

And no, I wouldn't eat horses.

I'm probably going to be brutalised for this one, but I would and have eaten veal.

I see nothing wrong with it. It is livestock just like cows. It just happens to be in cuter packaging. While I dont go out and munch on it 24 / 7 and actually dont think i've eaten it this year thus far, I dont see anything wrong with admitting they eat it.

As for horses, I probably have eaten horse, but personally dont like the idea of it. I have my personal feelings, but they are just that, personal. I dont like the idea of eating horse meat so I dont. But I think it is a common ingredient in alot of Salami's and so I have probably eaten it.

As for the "stranded on a deserted island with only a horse to eat" I would kill it. Eat it, use its bloody skin as a blanket....yes its gross, and yes i hope I never have to do that....but if I'm dying you go crazy, and that is what I envision crazy me would do.

Heck, in AU there is a law case where people went so dillusional stranded on a small boat that they drew straws and killed the shortest straw winner for food. If people resort to that kind of extreme in times of hardship I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone wouldnt eat a horse. As distasteful as that may seem while you have a full tummy.

That being said, I also agree with posters who commented on the cultural aspect of it all. In Malaysia they ate scorpions!! Some cultures eat Shark Fin as if it were no problem (also not right in my opinion). Heck, my dad ate white bread and butter with frenchfries stuffed in the middle sandwiches as a child in Scotland. So yes, in a culture where horsemeat is the status quo, I can see it being more difficult to justify not eating it. Horses would likely be considered to some extent livestock in the way we consider cows/pigs etc.

In the end, the decision is personal. I dont judge anyone based on what they would/wouldnt eat. I find that silly and immature but again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. From the first two pages of this thread, i think that this has been honest and open thus far,.....hopefully i'm not posting this on a trainwreck! ;)

[AstonMartin]

Do you really not know?
You know it's funny, I am taking this animal welfare and behavior class at university right now. I live in Alberta, ie in the heartland of cattle country, were agriculture is HUGE. I was very interested in this course because I thought I would get a new perspective. I always thought, peta types must exagerate farming practices ect. Most of the people in my class are farmers and so I was expecting that I would see that what peta or animal rights people put forth is really exagerated. We all had to do presentations on "controversial" animal agricultural methods from beak trimming to dehorning to yes, veal production. Lets put it this way...it IS as bad and as real as you see on those animal rights websites. They are made anemic and they DO live in tiny boxes. There were some welfare changes made in the last little while but overall, I would imagine that life is nothing short of hell for those individuals hauled from their moms after birth. Honestly, on the first day of class my prof said "some people choose to become vegetarian based on ignorance ie they don't really know how animals are REALLY raised ie it isn't as bad as "they " say"". I was thinking:"great. maybe it isn't as bad as they say, I'd love to see this side of the story". HA well lets just say if I ever doubted my choice it was only strongly reaffirmed after taking this class. Jeez I had a hard time sleeping after some of those presentations!
kyla



That may seem harsh but it kind of points out that one point of view based on a class may not paint the entire picture. You must remember that a class is taught and run by a professor with a certain point of view. Good profs will understand that their students will not always agree and will reward good well-considered counter arguements. However, this doesnt change the way they may present the items to class.

Therefore, I would not base your entire conception of the livestock industry on what appears to me to be a biased opinion of one university lecturer.

[summerhorse]

Only if I were starving and that was the only choice (or die). But I also don't eat rabbits, mutton, goat and veal either. Or anything I keep as a pet personally. Like if I had a few cows (I'd never be a huge cow raiser so that is all I'd ever have) I might raise the young ones to slaughter (but only to a local butcher that I hauled to) but I would put down the dams after they were done producing.

My friend had a small herd of really nice angus. they raised the young ones for beef (except for a few replacements) but the breeding stock got treated like pets (even the bull) and when they were done they were euthanized by the vet like the horses and buried.

As for veal some progressive farmers (if that can be applied) do raise veal calves in sheds but they are still kept anemic and way too many are STILL raised in the old way. I drove by a farm a couple of years ago and they had their crates out where you could see them. I just don't see that the reward is worth torturing those poor animals, babies no less.

[AstonMartin]

Well hey if you can live with yourself then awesome. Sometimes I wish I could ignore those innocent lives when I smell a good steak cooking.

But what about the wild. In Africa lions can go around hunting zebra and whatever else and they dont get chastised for it. Why are humans so different?

Ok so dont start lecturing me on why a human is different from a lion. I'm educated enough to realise the difference, but my point is that it is ok for humans to eat meat. It is ok to decide for personal / moral/ emotional/ social reasons not to eat it as well.

It is not so much innocent lives when they are dead. They were raised for a purpose. Many cattle have good lives before death, same for pigs, etc.

[AstonMartin]

Ohhhh.... that website is so biased. Please do not take that as categorical proof that this is what happens in farming.

Case in point. My partner's parents operate an enormous pig farm. Basically their focus is that of the birth of small pigletts and then they sell them at about 1-2 months to be raised for meat elsewhere.

They also have the momma's who live their pregnancies at their farm.

The 'gestation crates' you are seeing arent cruel. In many of those photos, I noticed they were in a crate and supposedly trying to 'get out'. In fact, at least at the farm I helped at, they were only put in these crates at feeding time to ensure they safely were able to get their allocated food. Otherwise they fight, bite at each other, and generally 'hog' haha all the food.

Thus it is safer and kinder to them if they are able to get 'locked' in one of these for the 10 minutes that they eat - all supervised as well.

Also, the pictures of them 'desperately trying to escape' also happened at the farm. It never happened when they werent hungry.....only when they were loading into the 'bays' where they would be 'locked in' to be fed.

They got excited and sometimes jumped up, and sometimes just jumped on each other....it was food motivated not cruelty.

After feeding is done, they are let back out into the big pen where they happily co-habitate. Granted there are the occasional fights, but that is normal in herds. They show dominance. The parents of my partner would go in there and check any injuries that may occur. These would be adequately treated if required. But, many animals didnt have these issues.

I could continue on for hrs. but i have stuff to do now....but i just feel strongly against very self-motivated websites that dont paint a complete picture.

I admit, I dont normally agree with you county, but here I find your points to have hit the nail on the head.

[summerhorse]

But what about the wild. In Africa lions can go around hunting zebra and whatever else and they dont get chastised for it. Why are humans so different?

Ok so dont start lecturing me on why a human is different from a lion. I'm educated enough to realise the difference, but my point is that it is ok for humans to eat meat. It is ok to decide for personal / moral/ emotional/ social reasons not to eat it as well.

It is not so much innocent lives when they are dead. They were raised for a purpose. Many cattle have good lives before death, same for pigs, etc.


I haven't seen any supermarkets out on the Kalahari. Of course Lions eat other animals, they don't really have a lot of choice do they? They also aren't people and can't raise their own food. Talk about apples and oranges!!

[AstonMartin]

I haven't seen any supermarkets out on the Kalahari. Of course Lions eat other animals, they don't really have a lot of choice do they? They also aren't people and can't raise their own food. Talk about apples and oranges!!

That wasn't my point. re-read my post.

I mentioned that for humans it is natural to eat meat. However, we are evolved enough to now be able to choose not to eat it. Therefore, the direct comparison is not good. However, nature sees animals/humans killing other animals for food. That IS my point.

They Kill their food b/c they must. We kill our food b/c we must as well. Of course some argue that we dont 'have' to, but that is a choice.

[philosoraptor]

I'll say again - I see veal calves all the time and none of them are kept like that. I grew up on and around farms and have no illusions about where my food comes from.

Hi, JSwan. I'm hope you don't mind me debating with you again. :)

There are baby cows killed for meat, and then there are real ("white" or "crated") veal calves... the veal that has us all upset aren't just regular calves.

Traditionally veal must be a white colored meat. This is because the calves become anemic. To protect the meat texture & quality, calves are kept absolutely immobile. Crates are just wide enough to hold the butchering size animal (about 2' wide), no way to turn around or change position. The crates sat on rows of slats over a concrete trough so the calves don’t even leave the crate to have their crate cleaned. They're fed a diet of milk replacement food from a pail, and some feel this causes a great deal of digestive upset and/or diarrhea; the calves lose out on the suckling action so food doesn't get into the right stomache, and some milk replacement farmers give isn't great quality. These calves generally don’t get colostrum, so they’re also weak from not getting that immunity boost. Google "white veal production" to verify this info.


When I think of veal, I think of this:
http://www.anonymous.org.il/pic/veal/eh109.jpg (http://www.anonymous.org.il/pic/veal/eh109.jpg)


Or this, where the head is chained outside of the box, keeping him even more immobile:
http://ideasinpictures.org/gallery/albums/no-18-a-leftover-from-the-dairy-industry/veal_crate1_front_view.jpg



I suspect what you're seeing are baby cows (maybe culls from a dairy operation?) that are eventually used for meat, but they're not the traditional veal.

I see nothing wrong with it. It is livestock just like cows.

Knowing that in order to make traditional veal they must do certain practices to the calf, do you still see nothing wrong with it? (you're entitled to your own opinion, but most people I find who like veal feel differently when they learn how it's made)

I put veal in the same category as foie gras in ducks/geese (force fed with tubes until their liver becomes diseased). Yes, both come from livestock, but do we really need to do these extreme things to animals for the sake of producing food?

[AstonMartin]

May,

I have never stood behind or supported animal cruelty.

I will be the first to admit that I do not know enough about veal farming to advocate or not-advocate.

For me it is an almost non-issue as I have only had veal a handful of times in my life. Thus, am not 'supporting' the proceedures.

However, that being said, I would need to do alot more research before I could say that I would definitively not eat veal. In an area clearly on the cusp of being cruel, one must know all the facts before trusting one opinion or point of view.

Also, the practices of one country may not be that of another. Therefore, I would want to know the pracitce of the particular country in which I consumed or considered consuming that animal.

That being said, if what you said is the truth of all 'veal' / calf farmers, then I would agree with you and perhaps re-consider my need to support that industry. However, at this point, i'm not satisfied. Not because of ignorance, but because I like to know as much as possible before concluding. I like to give the benefit of the doubt, and research it. There are too many PETA sites that are mis-informed, and thus I am skeptical. The one posted earlier in this thread is but such a site.

Edited because I realise that there are 3 different kinds of veal - formula, non-formula, and bob......I suppose now, I may agree that formula is not the humane way to do it, and would agree.

I should have slept in today~! ;)

[Melyni]

Horse meat. Yes you read right. Would you eat horse meat? Yes, no, maybe? Do tell and please keep it CIVIL

Done that.
Yes, in France whilst visiting. Didn't know at the time, hosts thought it a great joke to tell me after. Boy were they disappointed when I said it tasted just fine.
MW

[17handtb]

AstonMartin: how do you know that site is "misinformed"? Those are real photos. (And it's not PETA.) No one is saying that the pictured horrors happen to every animal at every farm. But they happened to those animals, and it stands to reason they happen to others. To me, at least, to have it happen to any is unacceptable.

The site also includes sources on research (http://www.freefarmanimals.org/science.htm) and laws (http://www.freefarmanimals.org/law.htm)related to factory farming abuses.

I am in total support of anyone who wants to research both sides of any issue. But please don't start out by deciding a particular site is "misinformed" if you haven't already done said research.

It's nice to see this thread hasn't slid into mudslinging or the proverbial train wreck. While I disagree vehemently with many of the posters here, I appreciate the respect everyone has tried to show in offering their differing views.

That's my piece - again, I'm certainly not saying farming is evil, eating meat is evil, using dairy is evil - but there are some pretty terrible things happening at many factory farms in this country, and I think it's fair to say there are many meat-eaters and vegetarians alike who want to do something about that.

[Kitari]

Wow, talk about off topic from a little comment I made. And a comment it was, yes i would like to try viel, mutton, horsemeat.

But please lets get back on tpic and save the viel treatment dicussion to another thread.

[EqTrainer]

Veal.

And, no.

[philosoraptor]

Wow, talk about off topic from a little comment I made. And a comment it was, yes i would like to try viel, mutton, horsemeat. But please lets get back on tpic and save the viel treatment dicussion to another thread.

I think you mean veal, not viel. Unless you meant to say VILE which is what it is. :lol:

We can't talk about veal on a special thread; not horse related so mods won't allow it.

The real question is if someone locked a foal in a tiny wooden box, never let it nurse, and made it anemic who would eat it?

Could you lock a Mini in a veal box and make mini-veal?

If the animal got sad, could you give him antidepressants and make a Happy Veal?

[Kitari]

ah, veal. my misspelling then. (im not the best speller there is after all)

Why couldnt you talk about it on another thread? Thhis is the of course/topic are after all. doesnt that mean "Open?"

[cheekycharlie]

I'd rather eat a farmers arse through the whole in the hedge.

[Huntertwo]

I wouldn't. I'm a vegetarian anyway.

And for anyone who'd like to learn more about veal and factory farming:

http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery.htm (many veal calves ARE kept in tiny, dark veal crates (http://www.freefarmanimals.org/gallery/index_vc.htm)- the photos are heartbreaking, and symbolize what factory farming really is. And this organization isn't PETA: they're not trying to get people to stop eating meat or dairy altogether, but instead, trying to stop the widespread abuses inherent in factory farming.)

I *think* the Europeans have or are trying to do away with the factory farming. I hope it includes Veal also.

Here we are in one of the most sophisticated countries in the world and this crap is still allowed to go on....:no:

[Huntertwo]

Ohhhh.... that website is so biased. Please do not take that as categorical proof that this is what happens in farming.

Case in point. My partner's parents operate an enormous pig farm. Basically their focus is that of the birth of small pigletts and then they sell them at about 1-2 months to be raised for meat elsewhere.

They also have the momma's who live their pregnancies at their farm.

The 'gestation crates' you are seeing arent cruel. In many of those photos, I noticed they were in a crate and supposedly trying to 'get out'. In fact, at least at the farm I helped at, they were only put in these crates at feeding time to ensure they safely were able to get their allocated food. Otherwise they fight, bite at each other, and generally 'hog' haha all the food.

Thus it is safer and kinder to them if they are able to get 'locked' in one of these for the 10 minutes that they eat - all supervised as well.

Also, the pictures of them 'desperately trying to escape' also happened at the farm. It never happened when they werent hungry.....only when they were loading into the 'bays' where they would be 'locked in' to be fed.

They got excited and sometimes jumped up, and sometimes just jumped on each other....it was food motivated not cruelty.

After feeding is done, they are let back out into the big pen where they happily co-habitate. Granted there are the occasional fights, but that is normal in herds. They show dominance. The parents of my partner would go in there and check any injuries that may occur. These would be adequately treated if required. But, many animals didnt have these issues.

I could continue on for hrs. but i have stuff to do now....but i just feel strongly against very self-motivated websites that dont paint a complete picture.

I admit, I dont normally agree with you county, but here I find your points to have hit the nail on the head.


Not the case when I visited our State University Agricultural barn. The females were ALL in these lousy gestation crates. And it was NOT, repeat NOT feeding time. In fact is was on a weekend and no one was around.

[Huntertwo]

The real question is if someone locked a foal in a tiny wooden box, never let it nurse, and made it anemic who would eat it?



MayS, I think some people on this particular topic would...:yes: Although, I won't mention any names. :)

[lunchbox]

No, I wouldn't eat horse meat.

But I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years.

It is hard to say what I would do if I was in some sort of situation where I was starving to death and had no other options.....

Funny story: As mentioned, I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years. The only thing I really miss the taste of is BACON!

I have a tendency to talk in my sleep and my husband told me that one night, while sleeping, I said, "I MISS BACON!"

The fake bacon stuff isn't too bad though, in a pinch.

[J Swan]

Not at all.

I am seeing veal calves. Not all farming of veal calves is done in the conditions described as inhumane. (But I do know what you are referring to with regard to the calves - and I am aware of the less than stellar reputation some veal production has)

Same with foie gras. Though the force feeding of fowl is indeed done - it does not HAVE to be done that way.

Getting back to horses - I've eaten horse when I was a kid. It was a Sunday dinner type of thing - when we came back to the states we'd have pot roast on Sundays instead. Never thought about it - I was much more disgusted by overcooked carrots. Can't stand overcooked carrots. Don't much care for pot roast either. My mom wasn't a very good cook - when we came to the states I could always tell when dinner was ready because the smoke detector went off.

Not really horse related - but I think a lot of people can be put off by a particular meat when it's cooked by someone like my Mom.




Hi, JSwan. I'm hope you don't mind me debating with you again. :)

There are baby cows killed for meat, and then there are real ("white" or "crated") veal calves... the veal that has us all upset aren't just regular calves.

Traditionally veal must be a white colored meat. This is because the calves become anemic. To protect the meat texture & quality, calves are kept absolutely immobile. Crates are just wide enough to hold the butchering size animal (about 2' wide), no way to turn around or change position. The crates sat on rows of slats over a concrete trough so the calves don’t even leave the crate to have their crate cleaned. They're fed a diet of milk replacement food from a pail, and some feel this causes a great deal of digestive upset and/or diarrhea; the calves lose out on the suckling action so food doesn't get into the right stomache, and some milk replacement farmers give isn't great quality. These calves generally don’t get colostrum, so they’re also weak from not getting that immunity boost. Google "white veal production" to verify this info.


When I think of veal, I think of this:
http://www.anonymous.org.il/pic/veal/eh109.jpg (http://www.anonymous.org.il/pic/veal/eh109.jpg)


Or this, where the head is chained outside of the box, keeping him even more immobile:
http://ideasinpictures.org/gallery/albums/no-18-a-leftover-from-the-dairy-industry/veal_crate1_front_view.jpg



I suspect what you're seeing are baby cows (maybe culls from a dairy operation?) that are eventually used for meat, but they're not the traditional veal.



Knowing that in order to make traditional veal they must do certain practices to the calf, do you still see nothing wrong with it? (you're entitled to your own opinion, but most people I find who like veal feel differently when they learn how it's made)

I put veal in the same category as foie gras in ducks/geese (force fed with tubes until their liver becomes diseased). Yes, both come from livestock, but do we really need to do these extreme things to animals for the sake of producing food?

[EqTrainer]

(spoken glumly) JSwan, perhaps our mothers are related... I grew up thinking I did not like vegetables and that all toast was black.

[chicki]

Oh jeez, I thought we were getting off of this topic. However I just have to interject. First of all I know that my prof had an agenda, it was PRO agriculture in a traditional sense. Ie he may have painted a rosier picture than reality. My point was that it still looked as bad as what PETA makes it seem.
What I seem to notice all the time here are two arguements. One: we evolved to eat meat. Yes we did. At that time we were probably expending 5000 calories a day trying to keep warm, hunt, forage ect. We would have had to have eaten meat to evolved. The meat they ate back then is NOT the same meat we eat today. It was not overly fattened, hormone, antibiotic injected meat. Secondly, most people in society today don't need to expend much more than 1500 calories to sustain themselves. In fact, the leading cause of death in NA is heart disease. There is a genetic component to that but cholsterol and saturated fats are most of the cause and those don't come from plant based sources. You figure it out. I'd say we eat WAY too much meat.
Secondly, there seems to be some effort to make an arguement out of "they were raised to eat". WHO CARES?! Please tell me how that effects an animals capacity to suffer. Someone gets talking about the cruelty aspect and the response is "they were raised for that". Sorry, that arguement is not even an arguement. An animals capacity to feel pain and to suffer has NOTHING to do with humans viewpoints on it's status.
As for the pigs, the traditional method is farrowing crates and then the rest of their lives in gestation stalls. This is where a LARGE majority of the pork comes from. Pigs have been found to be even more intelligent than dogs. I had to do research about the welfare implications of swine kept in this system and they are vast let me assure you from being totally prevented from exhibiting normal behavior, to having to lie in their own excrement(which is very unatural for a pig) to having large sores from lying on cement to being prevented from turning around or stretching their legs. Their entire lives are spent this way. The method discussed by another person here is not the normal way of raising pigs, I will assure you. I really dont see how this is humane in any way, or how it is any different (from the perspective of suffering) from doing it to your dog? I really don't.
It is always easier to sit back and come up with some lame arguement like "lions do it" or "they were made for that" to justify what we do to them, but the reality is, most large modern farming practices create major welfare issues for the animals that they raise. I think it's important to realize what you are supporting when you go out and buy that super priced pork chop at the grocery store.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

No, I would NOT starve myself, I'd rather "gather berries" and take that kind of chance than eat horse meat though. I do NOT eat ANY seafood, well, except tuna in a CAN. Also, I do not think I could eat a human as those surviors of that plane crash did years ago. However, I AM willing to admit that, I have NO IDEA what I'd be willing to eat unless I was faced with that LIFE decision. At this time in my life, and believe me, I do NOT eat like a queen, more like a poor college student, I can sincerely say I would NOT eat horse meat.

[greysandbays]

I would eat horsemeat if it was ready for the table, just to see what it's like. Not sure what I'd do if I decided I liked it and it was both readily available and affordable. I would not go out and purchase horsemeat for this taste test, but that's only because I'm a tightwad who won't spend money on stuff unless I'm 100% sure it's what I want.

Would I eat my own horses? Yes, if need be. I've got ten horses, and I'm not rich and don't have any prospects of becoming so. In the event that the horse slaughter ban passes and horses become as worthless as all the "extra" dogs and cats that are we kill by the millions just to have them dead, or the economy tanks in a democrat-assisted suicide -- then I'd have to cut down on the number of horses I keep rather quickly and start getting really creative with my finances. Assuming a worst-case scenario, I've got my herd ranked on a basis of "who gets eaten first if it comes to that", since I know there would be no other viable option aside from just killing them.

[AstonMartin]

As for the pigs, the traditional method is farrowing crates and then the rest of their lives in gestation stalls. This is where a LARGE majority of the pork comes from. Pigs have been found to be even more intelligent than dogs. I had to do research about the welfare implications of swine kept in this system and they are vast let me assure you from being totally prevented from exhibiting normal behavior, to having to lie in their own excrement(which is very unatural for a pig) to having large sores from lying on cement to being prevented from turning around or stretching their legs. Their entire lives are spent this way. The method discussed by another person here is not the normal way of raising pigs, I will assure you. I really dont see how this is humane in any way, or how it is any different (from the perspective of suffering) from doing it to your dog? I really don't.
It is always easier to sit back and come up with some lame arguement like "lions do it" or "they were made for that" to justify what we do to them, but the reality is, most large modern farming practices create major welfare issues for the animals that they raise. I think it's important to realize what you are supporting when you go out and buy that super priced pork chop at the grocery store.

Have you seen this abuse first hand?
This is not how it is done on the major pig farm my partner's family runs. I would be honest, I dont have a stake in it. Therefore, your comments to me appear uninformed.

[chicki]

Well, considering the university I am attending was just rated by mcleans as the number one overall university in Canada with an outstanding agricultural program, I think I am getting a fairly informed perspective. I have seen this first hand as the university keeps their pigs in various systems, in order to study them. Go to any Tysons operation, or any other "big name" place that raises pigs. That is the way they are managed. How am I biased? I am telling you exactly what I learnt in class from people who make their livings doing this. Chickens raised for eggs are routinely starved so that they do not become obese (because they are designed for such fast growth) and so that they lay more eggs in the standard process known as the "forced molt". Apparently there is a problem with salmonella when they are subjected to the forced molt. It is not only geese that undergo this process. There is a certain percentage of them that are sort of "collateral damage" ie a certian number usually don't survive the forced molt. I know it seems extreme, and your probably saying "yeah right". But do some research. Investigate the industry. I don't mean go to your neighbours who raises animals free range. I mean go and have a look at where the majority of the commercial animals are raised.

[blue&blond]

That's a horrible story! I had the same thing happen to me but NOT with a horse. With a pet cow. Or what I thought was a pet. I can't imagine if it had been a horse. I was grossed out enough after I found out I just ate "Bessy" and I occasionally eat beef. But not a pony!

[ddashaq]

Nope, I'd rather starve to death.

[AstonMartin]

Well, considering the university I am attending was just rated by mcleans as the number one overall university in Canada with an outstanding agricultural program, I think I am getting a fairly informed perspective. I have seen this first hand as the university keeps their pigs in various systems, in order to study them. Go to any Tysons operation, or any other "big name" place that raises pigs. That is the way they are managed. How am I biased? I am telling you exactly what I learnt in class from people who make their livings doing this. Chickens raised for eggs are routinely starved so that they do not become obese (because they are designed for such fast growth) and so that they lay more eggs in the standard process known as the "forced molt". Apparently there is a problem with salmonella when they are subjected to the forced molt. It is not only geese that undergo this process. There is a certain percentage of them that are sort of "collateral damage" ie a certian number usually don't survive the forced molt. I know it seems extreme, and your probably saying "yeah right". But do some research. Investigate the industry. I don't mean go to your neighbours who raises animals free range. I mean go and have a look at where the majority of the commercial animals are raised.


Well, I did not go to my neighbours. I went to a huge pig farm in Norway. It is rated as one of the best farms in norway based on productivity and longevity. The family is well off from doing this, and does not abuse pigs. This is not a ma-and pa kind of piggery if you will.

Also, as for going to a university rated number 1 in agriculture, I would assume that you go to University of Guelph. That doesnt make you an expert in the area in my opinion. I went there too. Then I moved to Australia. So i'm sorry but that arguement doesnt do it for me. I am taking nothing away from the university, I thought it had exceptional academics, but for pig raising, I dont think that is an accurate way to base one's conclusions.

I might have felt the same way if I hadnt seen a big commercial farm in progress. Some people will obviously abuse animals, and 'farm' them in inappropriate ways. However, this is not EVERYONE and that is why assumptions bother me.

[Kitari]

*watches as the thread goes more and more off topic*

shows how well a request is handled......

*duelly notes it*

[chicki]

ASTON MARTIN:
I know what your are getting at. I was just pionting out that my source was credible, I didn't read it from a peta site ect. I have looked into the issue prior to taking the course. I have looked over alot of agricultural literature on the subject and I have been to numerous pig farms as well as the one at the university. One thing I have noticed is that the UK and many european countries are MUCH farther ahead in terms of adressing animal welfare issues. I know the EU banned battery cages for chickens, and so they are currently being phased out. There are many other issues that have been adressed. Maybe the farrowing/gestation systems have been? But in the US and Canada that is just not the case for most of the major producers.

[AstonMartin]

I'm signing off on this thread....I realise the OT nature it has taken on...sorry Kitari.

I almost exclusively try to keep myself out of these type of threads due to the volatile and difficult nature of the topics......

Ah well, live and learn -i'm out.

[AstonMartin]

ASTON MARTIN:
I know what your are getting at. I was just pionting out that my source was credible, I didn't read it from a peta site ect. I have looked into the issue prior to taking the course. I have looked over alot of agricultural literature on the subject and I have been to numerous pig farms as well as the one at the university. One thing I have noticed is that the UK and many european countries are MUCH farther ahead in terms of adressing animal welfare issues. I know the EU banned battery cages for chickens, and so they are currently being phased out. There are many other issues that have been adressed. Maybe the farrowing/gestation systems have been? But in the US and Canada that is just not the case for most of the major producers.

Fair enough!

[Kitari]

CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK ON TOPIC

I ask this for a second. I would prefer not to have to ask again. This topic is asking people if they would eat horse meat. NOT the care, treatment, living environment, and age of slaughter to viel and chicken.

[Kitari]

Thanks

[Freebird!]

Well, getting back to the OP's question.

No, I would not eat horse meat, just as I would not eat dog or cat meat, however this is coming from someone who has eaten Raccoon meat....

[Sannois]

Well, getting back to the OP's question.

No, I would not eat horse meat, just as I would not eat dog or cat meat, however this is coming from someone who has eaten Raccoon meat....

Well I have eaten Rattlesnake!! I did not know it was Rattle snake, Dated a guy in Houston years ago, he brought me to a big family dinner, There was lots of food, The meat was white, and Blackened.. He was Cajun! I was great.. He told me the next day it was snake..I guess so I did not Hurl!!! :lol:

[ShortStirrupMom]

I would never eat horse meat for the same reason I would never eat dog or cat meat. Enough said.

[Freddie Freckles]

Yuck........no way.:no:

[Kim]

NEVER.

[TropicalStorm]

I've already tried it-unknowingly.
Had someone not told me later that it was horse meat, I never would have thought it any different from any other meat (pretty gamey though). Although it definately didn't taste like beef.

As it was though, because I later found out that it was horse meat, I was totally and completely disgusted and spent the night throwing up ;) (course that could have been the booze too :D )

[circusponydreams]

No way. I don't eat any dead animals, though, so that wasn't such a hard question.

[fabulousfred]

I can say a positive no. I understand it's cultural but for me personally it's my choice. Would you eat rat or bat or slugs? I'm sure they do somewhere but I wouldn't eat them either...:no:

[fabulousfred]

By the way chicky, I really loved your post. I agree 100% on your philosophy..:yes:

[harvestmoon]

Absolutely not.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=AstonMartin;2007191]
The 'gestation crates' you are seeing arent cruel. In many of those photos, I noticed they were in a crate and supposedly trying to 'get out'. In fact, at least at the farm I helped at, they were only put in these crates at feeding time to ensure they safely were able to get their allocated food. Otherwise they fight, bite at each other, and generally 'hog' haha all the food.



and the farrowing crates used on bigger farms keep the 400 pound mothers from squashing the piglets to death and the piglets need a different temp to survive so lamps are across their sleeping area....

we are a small place so our sows farrow in the horse barn...like well bedded TB mares :winkgrin:

two days before they make huge nests of the hay like a termite mound and start having babies.....and they can crush a half litter if a human is not around to pluck them to safety...as they can fit in your hand and come 16 to 22 at a time :)

and I normally try to be there and the a corner of the stall is blcked w/a low 2by4 and a lamp hung there....the mama cannot step over but lays close and the piglets nurse under the lamp and under the board....works fine for us....:yes:

Tamara in TN

[Kitari]

Tamara, I ask you like the other two, to please not take this off topic.

[Twilight]

Only if I knew it had been humanely transported and slaughtered, and that appears pretty unlikely in today's world.

It would be pretty far down on my list of choices though.

[Keep1Belle]

Unknowingly I have eaten horse meat. I was in France and tried to order I think Pepperoni or salami and when I bit in I knew it didnt tast quite right. I later asked and it was horse. I was about 12 at the time doing student exchange. I didnt like the taste so I imagine i wouldnt eat it again.

As far as my own issues with it. tomaeto, tuhmahto, to each his own. I certainly wouldnt want anyone to look down on me because i have a taste for beef or chicken.

[Tamara in TN]

Tamara, I ask you like the other two, to please not take this off topic.

sorry...did'nt know there was an actual topic anymore....what's more to say than "yes" or "no" ?? would authentic sausage recipies be out of line :)

Tamara in TN

[Pony Person]

Absolutely not.

[catknsn]

I don't eat meat of any kind. I just don't have any desire to put a dead thing in my mouth, cooked or not.

[Nootka]

I might .. it is something new. Although, I do agree that it would have to be a free ranging because we do give our beloved drugs and I dont think I need to add that into my already cancer genes (sister died of cancer along with my grandmother).

As for the before death.. I would never.... I can say that it is amazing what you can/will do when faced with death.. Not that I have been there:no: :eek: :mad:

[AstonMartin]

[QUOTE=AstonMartin;2007191]
The 'gestation crates' you are seeing arent cruel. In many of those photos, I noticed they were in a crate and supposedly trying to 'get out'. In fact, at least at the farm I helped at, they were only put in these crates at feeding time to ensure they safely were able to get their allocated food. Otherwise they fight, bite at each other, and generally 'hog' haha all the food.



and the farrowing crates used on bigger farms keep the 400 pound mothers from squashing the piglets to death and the piglets need a different temp to survive so lamps are across their sleeping area....

we are a small place so our sows farrow in the horse barn...like well bedded TB mares :winkgrin:

two days before they make huge nests of the hay like a termite mound and start having babies.....and they can crush a half litter if a human is not around to pluck them to safety...as they can fit in your hand and come 16 to 22 at a time :)

and I normally try to be there and the a corner of the stall is blcked w/a low 2by4 and a lamp hung there....the mama cannot step over but lays close and the piglets nurse under the lamp and under the board....works fine for us....:yes:

Tamara in TN

But in Norway it is illegal to use farrowing crates. SO they live more like your babies. In nice large stalls. The babies are put into a corner (the mom can reach under but not lay on top of) where there is a heating lamp and cover. The cover only prevents the mom from lying on them but not sniffing them or playing with them when they come out.

So while I cannot speak for all pig farmers, I know that Norway has humane practices....sometimes unfortunately it doesnt always work out best for the babies.......

[AstonMartin]

Kitari, sorry, but threads go on and off topic....thats just this BB....

[Kitari]

sorry...did'nt know there was an actual topic anymore....what's more to say than "yes" or "no" ?? would authentic sausage recipies be out of line :)

Tamara in TN


I was simply refering to how some people have been going on off shoots on the care and treatment of slaughter animals, or animals period when it honestly has no point with the question. I dont mind having a little debate in here so long as it stays on topic, which is eating horse meat.