Why do they always want to ride??? a small vent

[mroades]

I have found wonderful barn help...a married mother of two who will work for what i can afford to pay her and takes pride in her work.....BUT......I do not have school horses and find it very annoying that she has no problem asking if her husband can ride the 40K sales horse!?!And now she wants to ride "anything I have got" uggh
Sorry, but I feel better just venting.....

[Kap]

:lol: She does NOT sound like a very experienced horseperson.

[mroades]

She will tell you otherwise......

[Equinetech]

It could be worse...:At least she's not related to you (she's not, is she?)

[deltawave]

Well, how does anyone get anything without asking? Was she polite when she asked? Maybe she hasn't got the time, money or a place to ride any other way. Couldn't you just ask what her riding experience is and set some guidelines and, if her skills are reasonable, let her ride now and then on a suitable horse if you have one? You might have to nix the idea if she or her husband are total beginners and/or if your horses are touchy or difficult, but when good help is hard to find, sometimes the perks can really help to keep good people. :yes:

[county]

I have no problem with people asking questions their never going to find answers if they don't. Either the answer is yes or its no, if its no I explain why then they have learned something. Actually I enjoy teaching people about the horse world we need more in it.

[CK1]

After cycling through a number of less than desirable employees, finding and keeping a good employee takes some creative measures. If her husband can safely handle your horse, it may be worth it to allow him the occasional ride. While it may seem crass that she had no problem asking you, it would be alot worse to show up and see him waving to you from your horse's back. I'll take the type that asks for what they want versus the sneaky ones anyday.

[deltawave]

I don't see how it's crass...jeez, I never would've gotten to ride AT ALL if I hadn't walked up to the local hunt stables at age 12 and begged for the chance to ride in exchange for cleaning 10 stalls a day! :lol:

No, I wouldn't walk up to an Olympian and ask to ride their horse, but my guess is most people who are willing to do barn work for modest pay are horse lovers, and that implies a love of riding, and, well...."it never hurts to ask", as the saying goes. :) A polite no would, I think, be all one would need to say if the idea were abhorrent.

[Cherry]

I would guess they want to ride for the same reason that we do.... ;) Hopefully they love horses! Maybe you might want to keep a trusty old horse around for folks such as these; like deltawave said--maybe it can help you keep good help and you'd be helping out a horse that needs it.... :yes: May I suggest a Standardbred?

If it hadn't been for other people sharing their horses with me over the years I would never, ever have gotten the chance to be near a horse (as my parents were never able to afford one)! I am grateful beyond words to these selfless people.... :sadsmile:

[Luckydonkey]

Maybe a supervised plunk around a pasture or small ring (think cooling down session)would do the horse some good as well as the couple who are working for you- think how proud it would make them feel to say they were on a horse worth more than they make in a year! and gee- could it hurt to be able to say the horse is capable of handling beginner riders.....

[seeyalou]

I really don't think it's much of a mystery: she likes the horses. If yours are too special for her to ride maybe you know someone who has a horse she can hack; if she's up to it.

I'm surprised you haven't been asked before. You could always hire a guy; male barn help doesn't seem to want to ride as much.

Perks do help keep good people. I buy lunch and miscellaneous stuff for my secretary all the time. It lets them know you want them to be happy, and that you're aware it isn't all about you. You do know that. Right?

[Kate66]

Good for her! I always ask when I want something.You can always say no. Where's the problem?

[Fluffie]

It all depends on how the question was posed--I've had people ask me to ride my horses like they were doing me a favor and then wouldn't take no for an answer. Ugh.

The OP may also be annoyed because riding isn't (I assume) one of the job conditions; it wasn't mentioned as renumeration up front. In addition, not every Tom, Dick, and Harry should be hacking about on someone else's horse, esp. if the horse is for sale for $$$$--what happens if that person screws up the horse (gets him injured, jerks his face, etc.).

I've ridden a LOT of other people's horses, but I NEVER once asked; I simply took good care of my horse, they noticed, and they asked me to horse sit. Personally, I would NEVER ask--that's like asking "Can I borrow your Corvette?" "Can I borrow your Strad. violin?" "Can I borrow your children?"

(And before people start pointing the "meanie" finger, I have let others ride my horses. However, it was always by invitation initiated by me.)

[BumbleBee]

As the barn help at my farm I am mildly insulted.

I own 2 horses myself and have more horses to school for others than I have time but whats with this "they" stuff.

Perhaps "they" wasn't meant to include anyone who works in a stable just ones who are not lucky enough to own horses themselves.

In that case I guess that is why they ask...

A polite "these horses are in training so not suitable" would likely suffice.

[JH]

Gosh I must be privileged.. :D I've been asked to ride by everyone I've ever worked for, even on the $$$$$ sale horses. Give the girl a chance, maybe she's a good rider. :yes:

[Coup De Des]

Let me tell you - You want what you can't have!!!

When I never had horses I begged to ride anything. I remember riding a DONKEY because Hey! It had four legs and hooves and it was as close to an equine as I had been in a few months.

Then when you get your own horse, and can ride whenever you want... Eh, You can take it or leave it haha.

Give her a break.

[mroades]

Jeez, I was venting, not asking to have my personality critiqued.
I only have 12 stalls, all boarders that are in training with me and two sales horses. I do not have school horses...I thought it was ballsy of her to ask and then argue why I should let her husband ride the 40K sales horse that belongs to a lawyer!

[hasahorse]

mroades, I agree with you. It would be one thing if you had school horses that would be suitable for any ability level, but you don't. Your barn, your rules. If riding was not part of the original bargain, then it's not part of the bargain now.
While it never hurts to ask, a no answer means no.

[deltawave]

Well, send her over to my barn. I only have three stalls and two of my beasts could use the work! :)

[Bogie]

People ask me all the time if they can ride my horses. If someone is a decent rider, I consider it. The rank beginners, I suggest trying out the sport at a nearby riding facility.

I used to think these folks were being rude, but I finally came to the conclusion that they really just don't understand that my horses are not the same as the ones you rent by the hour for trail rides!

[Janet]

You have significantly changed the premise.

In your original post you only said thar she "asked".

Nothing wrong with "asking".

Now you say that she "argued", and didn't take "no" for an answer.

That is VERY different and not acceptable.

[west5]

A LOT of people really don't understand the difference between a "fancy sale horse" and an "old choolie/trail horse". This is particularly true if they are allowed to care for the horse from the ground or shovel its manure.

I think a kind response of:
1) I don't own this horse so I can't let you ride it.
2) Some horses need to be ridden by people of a certain riding ability or else the person might get hurt. I don't want to risk that happening to you or your husband.
3) I do appreciate how you help out taking care of these horses and if I had something appropriate and was able to I would let you/your husband ride.
4) If I know someone who has a suitable horse and is looking for a rider I will let you know.

ALSO THE REASON SHE MIGHT BE GOOD HELP IS THE SAME REASON SHE WANTS TO RIDE ... LOVES HORSES!!!

[Luckydonkey]

If she argues the 'no" answer that is not good- but i do have to say that the horse being worth 40 grand and owned by an attorney should not matter- that horse could get just as messed up standing in his stall as he could being walked around the ring with her hubby on his back- and really- if the horse is worth that kind of money he is probably ensured anyway, right? give her the attorney's name and phone number and let her call and ask if she can ride- if the attorney agrees, have him call you... maybe she secretly has money and wants to buy him- what happens if she was wanting to try him out for purchase- what then? would you turn them down then??? Be careful how you judge people, it may come back to bite you. Just because she cleans stalls does not mean she can not ride....

[mairzeadoats]

Um maybe "they" always ask because it's the only reason "they" took a job shoveling sh*t for what "you" can afford to pay.

Getting to ride goes hand in hand with many, many barn jobs. In many cases, it's one of the perks offered...often the only one...that makes a dead-end, hard, low pay job worthwhile.

She may not have realized the horse was $40K and owned by somebody else. BTW, when I was a barn manager (read manure-shoveler-in-chief) for an international competitor, I rode and trained the sales horses daily. It was a perk and the unpaid part of my job.

On the other hand, refusing to accept "no" for an answer is a different story altogether. That one always ties me up in knots...

[EponaRoan]

give her the attorney's name and phone number and let her call and ask if she can ride- if the attorney agrees, have him call you...

Oh, hell no! Can you imagine the reaction of most boarders (like 99.9% of them) if they got a call from someone employed at the barn asking if their husband can ride their horsie? :eek:

Asking the OP if she could ride the horse = okay if done politely. Asking if the husband could ride it = iffy and borderline rude depending on how it was presented. Arguing about the husband riding someone else's horse = crossing the line.

[BumbleBee]

maybe she secretly has money and wants to buy him- what happens if she was wanting to try him out for purchase- what then? would you turn them down then??? Be careful how you judge people, it may come back to bite you. Just because she cleans stalls does not mean she can not ride....


lol I am so glad I wasn't the only one who saw this. I was thinking how funny it would be if said stall mucker bought the $$$ horse. If she can AFFORD to work for peanuts who knows what else she can afford.

[BumbleBee]

Also in first post you never said she argued when you said no.

That does change matters.

[crosscreeksh]

No one has mentioned the insurance liability "thing"!! MY insurance wouldn't cover someone riding a horse that belonged to a third person. It's not being rude to feel that a barn employee is not entitled to ride your client's horses or your own. If I was paying for training on my horse, I'd be upset if anyone but the authorized trainer was riding it...and certainly not the husband of a stable worker. And NO one rides my personal horses! JMO

[YankeeLawyer]

Oh, hell no! Can you imagine the reaction of most boarders (like 99.9% of them) if they got a call from someone employed at the barn asking if their husband can ride their horsie? :eek:

Then why should MRoades' reaction be any different? In fact she has no authority to allow someone else to ride the horse, unless the boarder has specifically told her that that would be okay.

Anyway, I don't think there is anything wrong with a barn worker asking politely if he/she could ride, but if the answer is no it is no. There are a lot of barns where horses need to be flatted by someone for exercise, and hence opportunities for people to ride.

[Tory Relic]

I have found wonderful barn help...a married mother of two who will work for what i can afford to pay her and takes pride in her work.....BUT......I do not have school horses and find it very annoying that she has no problem asking if her husband can ride the 40K sales horse!?!And now she wants to ride "anything I have got" uggh
Sorry, but I feel better just venting.....

I interviewed (as barn help) once at a farm that made it clear that they did not take boarders, including those of their help...apparently, people working for them always wanted to bring their horses with them as part of their pay. That wasn't a need for me, but I see how people who work in barns would want to do it, and it is a common practice.

In my experience, not so much for riding. I used to exercise the pony at a racing barn I worked with, but I didn't ride the race horses. At show and breeding barns, it didn't come up.

[2foals]

I think the circumstances/manner in which she asked have a lot to do with it. There's a huge difference between saying, "Hey, I just want to let you know that I love to ride, and if it ever worked out, I'd love to ride one of your horses." vs. expecting to be allowed to ride AND asking to bring other people over to ride--esp. to ride other people's horses! The OP doesn't even own the horse in question.

When I was on bedrest during my pregancy a couple of acquaintances (beginner riders without their own horses) asked if they could "help me out" by riding my horses (two young WBs and my nice dressage horse) for me. I thanked them for the offer but said no. I didn't think their asking was presumptuous until I saw that they were a bit ticked that I said no. It seems to me that attitude is common among inexperienced riders--they don't get what the "big deal" is.

[JustJump]

Normally in the job interview, this topic is covered. Either the job includes riding, or it doesn't, or the possibility of riding is left to discretion of the BO...so what was it when you interviewed her?

Is her husband any good? I wouldn't assume that simply because the lady is a mother that her husband is necessarily a beginner rider out to get mileage on horses at the barn where his wife is employed. Maybe he can actually ride? And it might not seem obvious to your new employee at first how one person (mroades) can ride 12 full training horses each day. Maybe the lady was trying to offer a solution to a problem? There is probably more to this story....

[blue&blond]

I seem to always get asked by visiting relatives or friends. NONE of which have riding experience. Yeah, OK, they've done "pay by the hour" trail rides.

My usual response is that I don't have a horse suitable for them. (Which I don't.) Of course they answer with "Oh, I know how to ride. I even managed to handle that big black stallion they put me on the last time until he threw me." (Read: Until he trotted and I fell off.)

I will put visiting kids up - with a helmet and lead them around the pasture though.

[Caroline Weber]

I would set aside time to discuss this with her. I would tell her several things:

(1) Riding other people's horses is a privelege. This opportunity was neither given verbally nor given in her contract.
(2) The horses she wants to ride belong to clients. Thus, it is not up to you to decide if she may ride them, it is up to the owners. Perhaps tell her that these clients have specified that only you should ride them, regardless of the skill levels of others. Remind her that you have no horses of your own that would be suitable for her or her husband to ride.
(3) If she argues with your decision, remind her again that the opportunity was never offered. If she continues to argue, tell her that if she does not accept your decision on the issue, you might place her on a form of "probation", and that she is really good barn help, so you would not want to be forced to let her go because of this issue.


Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with her asking. If nobody ever asked for something, most people would not get very far. I would, however, have a serious problem with her arguing with your decision.

[findeight]

Can her husband ride at all? Was riding discussed as part of employment compensation package?

She ARGUED when you said no?

I think the OP hired this worker to take care of the horses, not ride them, in a show barn. I know alot of workers say they understand they were not hired in a riding postion...but really think they should have access to riding because they work with the horses.

I have no problem with the fact she asked but have one with the fact she argued when told her hubby could not ride 40k sale horse.

[linquest]

The fact that the owner is a lawyer is an easy out:

"I have a contract with the owner, who's a lawyer btw, that I and only I can ride these horses for training and selling purposes. If he ever found out that I let someone else on these $40K horses, I'd lose his business and he might sue me for breach of contract."

might be a small falsehood in the first part, but the result may be completely true even if it's a stretch.

[Luckydonkey]

No one has mentioned the insurance liability "thing"!! MY insurance wouldn't cover someone riding a horse that belonged to a third person. It's not being rude to feel that a barn employee is not entitled to ride your client's horses or your own. If I was paying for training on my horse, I'd be upset if anyone but the authorized trainer was riding it...and certainly not the husband of a stable worker. And NO one rides my personal horses! JMO
Well since she has sale horses, I would assume she would have insurance to cover people riding them....

[nightsong]

People who don't own horses tend to think of them like motorcycles; ANYONE can ride them and the onlly way you can damage them is to run them into a wall. they don't have ANY idea...

[Fluffie]

People who don't own horses tend to think of them like motorcycles; ANYONE can ride them and the onlly way you can damage them is to run them into a wall. they don't have ANY idea...

:yes: I would add that some people who own horses have the same impression.

In addition, how is one to know if hubby (or the wife for that matter) can or can't ride? Take his or her word? hahaha Sticking hubby on the sale horse to find out doesn't seem like a brilliant idear.

[JH]

Jeez, I was venting, not asking to have my personality critiqued.
I only have 12 stalls, all boarders that are in training with me and two sales horses. I do not have school horses...I thought it was ballsy of her to ask and then argue why I should let her husband ride the 40K sales horse that belongs to a lawyer!

Your OP says "And now she wants to ride "anything I have got" uggh".

"anything I have got" Implies that you have horses of your own.... As most barn owner do.

If you don't own any horses and your employee knows that fact, then of course her "arguing" with you about riding horses that don't belong to you is absurd. :yes:

[EqTrainer]

Jeez, I was venting, not asking to have my personality critiqued.
I only have 12 stalls, all boarders that are in training with me and two sales horses. I do not have school horses...I thought it was ballsy of her to ask and then argue why I should let her husband ride the 40K sales horse that belongs to a lawyer!

The word "argue" is what gets me in your court.

I have a student who LOVES to ride my horse. However, she knows it is a priviledge and not a right and treats it accordingly. If she ever argued with me about it, it would never happen again.

[walkinon]

One thing I have seen an issue with at most barns is the fact that many of the horses in training or show horses in a barn will get messed up if another rider or a variety of riders, work the horses. Not everyone rides the same.

[Melyni]

I usualy take this as a positive sign, but depending on the riding ability/experience of the person easy or hard to arrange.
So I'd say it depends on just how good she is as barn help.
The people who who go the extra mile for me I go the extra mile for them. I provide a horse and an instructor, but if tey are not good dependable reliable help then I don't.
I do tell them up front that it is a privelege and must be earned. But it really helps you bra help feel part of the team if they get to have a few priveleges.
It's easier for me in one way, I have a theraputic program in the barn and can always send them over to the that instuctor if they need basic instructions.
I also keep an old QH arond who is the guest horse, he is a real packer so I can usually let folks ride when they want to.
It does do wonders for barn morale.
MW

[lunatic fringe]

maybe you didn't know it, but you're supposed to keep some old schoolie around your barn for the help! My word! I'm with Fluffie and Night Song. These people need to get a grip and realize that riding at a barn doesn't necessarily involve getting "free rein" with the horses! If I could not ride, I would either ask my trainer to ask a boarder or other person to ride my horse or to ride it herself! I would not foresee that "the staff" and their SOs would randomly be riding my horses. I can't believe some of these responses! Maybe you should let her husband ride one of your new OTTBs! lol!!!! People - these horses have owners! The board, etc. is not paid so that they can be publicly accessed! A private barn is just that! A private barn. Flame away if you like, but there better not be someone I don't know on one of my horses! Yes, it might be different if someone on the staff were talented and hired to assist the trainer, but random barn staff? No way! and before you flame? - my daughter and I are barn staff! :eek: :yes: :lol:

[west5]

I am always depressed by the tone of these types of threads.

I have a very "fancy" horse. I will occasionally let people who are capable (meaning will not hurt themselves or the horse) and with supervision from the trainer ride him. This includes friends of mine and barn staff. If my trainer came to me and asked could she give a "pony ride" as a thank you to a very lovely employee or SO on him I would say yes to that too.

In the past, before I owned my horse, I have experienced the generosity of others who let me ride their horses. Especially really fabulous ones from whom I learned a lot. I always try to remember this.

I do understand that some horses can't tolerate a new/unschooled rider but plenty can happily walk someone around for a half-hour with no ill effects. Obviously, everyone has the right to make decisions for their own situation. Just feeling the lack of generoisity in spirit as much as anything these days in our society.

I guess it would be easier to hear if people wrote in "I wish I could let other people ride my horses but I'm not comfortable with it" instead of "I can't believe they want to ride, how dare they, how annoying, the horse is MINE"

Sorry to vent back ... (and yes the arguing from the employee is not good)

[Trixie]

It's okay to ask, NEVER okay to argue.

However, your tone suggested that you were just appalled that the help would ask to ride - which kind of put me off. They're horses, we ride them. She probably didn't know it was a $40K sale horse owned by a lawyer. Okay, so explain that. If she continues to argue, then you can fire her. But the tone you took was really quite harsh - we all want to be able to ride. A lot of us have probably had to ask, at some point or another, if we can ride if there's something available. They're wonderful, beautiful animals and you should see it as a COMPLIMENT to the beautiful horses in your barn rather then as something so offensive.

[mroades]

ok guys, been gone all day horse shopping.....like I said a small vent, one of the things I love about Coth. You can do that here and get both sides of the coin. I have learned alot and gained much insight from here.

I love this girl's work ethic, but am a little concerned about her casual-ness to MY liabillities. Her husband is a dead beginner, and the only reason she wanted the sales horse is because he is 17.2. He also happens to be the one who is lame from the white line issue at the moment. (he came to me with it, i am trying to fix it)

She lets her three year old little girl wander the farm and it scares the crap outta me...when I bring it up, she says :"I wont sue you" And when the littel girl went in the barn refrigerator and squeezed out all of the west nile vaccine, she paid for it right away. But sheesh!!!!!!!!

[bt]

uhhhhh she just asked, lighten up all you have to do is say "no" as politely as she asked and it's over. If ya don't want to be asked make it clear up front under what circumstances rides will and won't be allowed. I know barn help that were told they would be given lessons, then they took it upon themselves to hop on the greenest lesson horse, kept for advanced riders only, when no one was around, then was dumb enough to talk about it.

[appaloosalady]

ok guys, been gone all day horse shopping.....like I said a small vent, one of the things I love about Coth. You can do that here and get both sides of the coin. I have learned alot and gained much insight from here.

I love this girl's work ethic, but am a little concerned about her casual-ness to MY liabillities. Her husband is a dead beginner, and the only reason she wanted the sales horse is because he is 17.2. He also happens to be the one who is lame from the white line issue at the moment. (he came to me with it, i am trying to fix it)

She lets her three year old little girl wander the farm and it scares the crap outta me...when I bring it up, she says :"I wont sue you" And when the littel girl went in the barn refrigerator and squeezed out all of the west nile vaccine, she paid for it right away. But sheesh!!!!!!!!


:eek: :eek: :eek: Yikes!!! Letting a 3 yr old wander around unattended would upset me just a little but more than asking about riding a horse!

[Amber_M]

If you don't want your personality crituqed, then I'd change your subject line. "Why do they always want to ride??"? I get the feeling like you feel like you're much better than her...a very condescending tone. Sorry, we can't all afford $$$$ horses, and for alot of us the way we got into horses was through UNDERSTANDING and KIND people that taught us. Maybe if you explained to her WHY she can't ride him (lameness, sensitivity, the fact that you don't own him, etc.) it'd help a bit more?


WHY DO THEY ALWAYS WANT TO RIDE? The same reason you do. Could you imagine being around horses all day and not itch to get on one of them?

[War Admiral]

:eek: :eek: :eek: Yikes!!! Letting a 3 yr old wander around unattended would upset me just a little but more than asking about riding a horse!

Same.

This does not really sound like the ideal employee to me, to be honest.

[seeyalou]

I know a bunch of lawyers in Beaufort. Or is it savannah? :lol:

Anyway, if she argues with you that's no good. I would tell her not to bring her preschooler to the barn where she can't be supervised. It's DANGEROUS. And can get very expensive, my five year old snuck in the barn and made a 'potion' out of my durn cactus fly spray concentrate and a bottle of kopertox. That was an almost sixty dollar bucket of toxic stew. :lol: Not good. I'm glad it's finally chilly so hopefully she'll stay in the car and watch movies. Anyway, I guess my point is letting the child wander around while her mom cleans stalls could be really dangerous. Ponds, water troughs. The stuff of nightmares.

[Trixie]

seeyalou, I bet that was one funny colored child in the end, yechhhh, kopertox.

mroades, it sounds like you need to have a discussion with her about other things rather then asking a simple question, like not supervising her kid, which isn't acceptable. Did she *know* that the $40K sale horse was a $40K sale horse that was lame and belonged to someone else?


WHY DO THEY ALWAYS WANT TO RIDE? The same reason you do. Could you imagine being around horses all day and not itch to get on one of them?

Of course, of course :) I know I would!

[Fluffie]

For those of you missing the fountain of generosity, look at it from the other side (the dark side, if you will).

I was given (by parents) a horse. He was terribly underweight and very badly trained/abused. I spent *years* of darn hard work, nights spent crying, nights spent crippled, and my own money to support what I wanted more than anything else in the world. I was at the barn X-mas Eve to finish off a 2-week course of 2xday penicillin shots that I gave myself. I hand walked that horse for 7 months and then spent the next 2 months only walking under saddle because he ripped part of his hoof off. I, my trainers, and a helluva lot of time/work took him from a runaway to a state champ. hunter. Then I stood and ran water/sponged with alcohol while he panted like a dog when he couldn't sweat. I sat on a tack trunk, writing essays for college while waiting for my vet because horse suddenly became very ill, spiking a fever of 106 for a week, then having a bad reaction to the penicillin he became allergic to. I watched as he refused to eat for 2 weeks, losing over 200 lbs. in 7 days (and he was barely a good weight to begin). Now he is crippled fairly well at age 22.

Never tell me that I *owe* people the right to harass him. Instead, I owe him to watch over his wellbeing first. :yes: I have let others ride him, but they are people I know *well* and whose judgement I trust completely.

Just another side to a multi-facited coin. :)

Now, if you want the sob story about the other horse . . . . :lol:

[YankeeLawyer]

ok guys, been gone all day horse shopping.....like I said a small vent, one of the things I love about Coth. You can do that here and get both sides of the coin. I have learned alot and gained much insight from here.

I love this girl's work ethic, but am a little concerned about her casual-ness to MY liabillities. Her husband is a dead beginner, and the only reason she wanted the sales horse is because he is 17.2. He also happens to be the one who is lame from the white line issue at the moment. (he came to me with it, i am trying to fix it)

She lets her three year old little girl wander the farm and it scares the crap outta me...when I bring it up, she says :"I wont sue you" And when the littel girl went in the barn refrigerator and squeezed out all of the west nile vaccine, she paid for it right away. But sheesh!!!!!!!!

This should freak you out. I hope you have a signed release from this person, at a minimum, but BTW a release sometimes is not enough to protect you in the event she or her child gets injured and sues. And her assurance that she won't sue doesn't mean much because (1) when something bad occurs, she might not be so friendly about it; and (2) even if she doesn't want to sue you, her insurance company will likely come after you regardless of whether she wants to participate in any suit. So get releases from everyone and make sure you have the appropriate insurance coverage.

[nightsong]

She lets her three year old little girl wander the farm and it scares the crap outta me...when I bring it up, she says :"I wont sue you" And when the littel girl went in the barn refrigerator and squeezed out all of the west nile vaccine, she paid for it right away. But sheesh!!!!!!!!

Instead of approaching this from the liability standpoint (which SHOULd scare the crap out of you!!!) put it to your worker in terms of the little girl getting hurt. For instance, I'm SURE you have poisons in your barn refrigerator, and toddlers are NOTORIOUS for putting everything in their mouths. Not to mention all that poo...

[vanjumper]

If you don't want your personality crituqed, then I'd change your subject line. "Why do they always want to ride??"? I get the feeling like you feel like you're much better than her...a very condescending tone. Sorry, we can't all afford $$$$ horses, and for alot of us the way we got into horses was through UNDERSTANDING and KIND people that taught us. Maybe if you explained to her WHY she can't ride him (lameness, sensitivity, the fact that you don't own him, etc.) it'd help a bit more?


WHY DO THEY ALWAYS WANT TO RIDE? The same reason you do. Could you imagine being around horses all day and not itch to get on one of them?

I don't think that the OP thinks she's better than anyone. I kind of got the feeling that "they" was everybody. I know that's how I feel a lot of days, when I get random people (barn kids, barn parents, co-workers) asking if they can ride my horses. Call me selfish, but I look out for my horses' well-being first - I'm not going to let Joe Shmoe ride my horses. I don't owe that to anybody. ETA: One time, the barn manager got on my very green horse without my consent nor knowledge. She was very promptly bucked off headfirst on to the ground. I had already told her that NO, it was not ok. She learned the hard way, I suppose.

As to asking to ride - I was barn help for a long time - and I was NEVER presumptuous enough to ask if I could ride the sales horses, and I wouldn't have DREAMED of asking to ride a client's horse. I earned the right to do both of those things by being attentive, and generally being the best horsewoman I could be. Then, the trainer came to ME and asked me to ride, as did a fair number of barn clients. When I got hired all I asked was "will there be riding as part of the job?" Up front I let the trainer know I was interested - but I didn't push my luck.

[magnolia73]

You know what, she probably works for you because she loves horses and wants to ride. There may not be anything appropriate for her to ride, but can you not just politely say that the horses are not safe (if that is the case), or, jee, maybe give her lesson on one of the quieter sales horses? Mucking stalls is not a particularly fun job, and lucky you for finding someone to help. Would it damage the horses if someone got on and walked around the ring a couple of times? Really? I mean, they are sales horses, people will be trying them out who ride at different abilities.

[Just My Style]

MRhoades- I understand your feelings, but how many times have people posted on here that "they can't afford to ride" and everyone posted back to "get a job working with horses and see if the barn owner will let you"? She may just love the horses so much and this may be her way of getting her husband to love them too. Unfortunately, you don't have the right kinds of horses for them to "learn" on. As for the 3 years old... that scares me too. I am a parent and mine was NEVER in the barn at that age unless I could give him 110% of my attention and he always had on a helmet. Always.

[magnolia73]

Here's a thought-
If she is still with you at Christmas, why not get her a gift certificate for a riding lesson, trail ride, whatever, at some local lesson type barn?

I think a lot of non-horse people have no clue that you just don't ask to ride people's horses- it isn't really worth getting upset over, and sometimes just being prepared with a nice excuse "I'm sorry when I take on sales horses, I agree that I am the only one at the barn to ride it except bonafide buyer prospects, but I recommend XYZ barn to ride at. They are excellent and have many suitable horses"

OR

My horse is in training and needs to only be ridden by myself or trainer. I suggest signing up for some lessons at XYZ Barn if youwant to ride- they are great!

People ask me all the time if they can come ride with me- I am normally either half leasing, taking lessons or schooling a friends horse and I generally offer to take a lesson with them if they aren't experienced.

[Jsalem]

Did this lady use to work for me? Sweet lady, some horse knowledge, young child that would wander around the barn, and a burning desire to jump. I do have some school horses and really tried to teach her. It was torture!

If you have anything suitable, I would say grit your teeth and give her some lunge lessons or something as a fringe benefit if she's a valuable worker. Absolutely no to the husband riding. A firm, "I'm sorry, these horses are privately owned." And really, you probably need to nix the "daycare" arrangements if you don't have a safe place for the child. If she's being paid to work, she needs to arrange for daycare for her child.

I finally had to let my lady go. She had way too much personal baggage.

[Jumphigh83]

OK so you let her ride the sale horse (supervised of course) it spooks and she falls off, breaks her arm/leg and then you have a law suit where not only YOU are the defendant but the OWNER of the horse who TRUSTED you to insure its well being is being named too! NEVER let them ride olther peoples horses. Never. I am sick of supplying horses for people who cant or wont afford them! DO what I did...BUY a horse for yourself! If the job description didnt involve riding and or lessons than her expectations are unreasonable and you (mroades) are absolutely correct to deny the employee a ride. PS I think this one worked for me too...except you forgot the not toilet trained three year olds poopy diaper in the garbage can in the veiwing room !!! OMG.....THAT was nasty...

[seeyalou]

I wouldn't let barn help ride privately owned horses. Or horses in training. If there's something suitable, that's another story. If she wants to ride anything you've got, and you haven't got anything well, then, there you go.

[magnolia73]

I think part of what disappoints me is the level of animosity and disdain many of you have for people who want to ride. Clearly, there are MANY reasons you don't want people to ride your horses, and they are GOOD reasons, but many people just plain don't understand or know. It seems awfully rude to get in a huff over it. Rehearse an answer, use it and go from there.

[khorsem]

I agree - the people that work for verrry little pay just to be around horses are doing it because they love it. The snotty additude is not necessary. I also would think that it'd be a good thing to throw someone who may be less experienced (and who knows, you could be giving her WAY too little credit.) on a sale horse - odds are you'll eventually get a "think they have WAY more experience than they do" buyer. And a 40k sale horse with white line issues? I'd be chomping at the bit for that one, for sure!

[Mtn trails]

I had children off the street come over and ask if they could ride my horses. When I said no they acted like I was the nastiest person around. What, I'm supposed to say sure go ahead and ride? Then I find out from other neighbors that these same children were in my paddock with the mare and her new foal playing with her. Where are their parents?

Then I had a half-boarder on my very nice OTTB, that I saved money up to buy, letting her boyfriend a rank beginner ride her. She didn't ask, she told me she was letting him ride. Then there was the time she asked if I would let a friend who also boarded at the same barn ride my horse. Huh? WTF? She's got her own horse and mine is not some community anyone can ride schoolie. She and I parted ways very quickly.

[magnolia73]

I'm supposed to say sure go ahead and ride?

"I'm sorry, but you can't ride. My horses are very sensitive and could really hurt you. If you would like, I can tell your mom and dad about a great place with pony rides with safe horses for you to ride"

I mean, you can always say "NO" in a very polite, diplomatic way. You can't expect kids not to be attracted by horses and want to pet them and be near them. Unfortunately, you do need to educate them and set boundaries. It is your right to simply say "No", and they should just leave you alone- but they are kids, and a nice explanation with the "no" would be a kind thing.

[Trixie]

They're kids... of course they're going to think you're mean because they don't understand why that's wrong - but that's up to their parents to teach them.

I get drained of the attitude of some of the barn managers on these threads. It's always US versus THEM.

just being prepared with a nice excuse "I'm sorry when I take on sales horses, I agree that I am the only one at the barn to ride it except bonafide buyer prospects, but I recommend XYZ barn to ride at. They are excellent and have many suitable horses"

This is the best way I've heard about handling the situation, polite and not cruel in the slightest. And liability is as good a reason as any.

If she continues to argue you can fire her. In theory, it should be as simple as explaining your reasons. Not everyone has learned tact.

[Duffy]

Times have definitely changed. Would the owners of all the horses and ponies who asked me to ride their beasties many years ago be doing the same these days? I'm not sure. I like to think that some still would. But, I realize that some would not - and it's not their fault.

[gully's pilot]

I sympatize both ways--having been on both ends of the question. Lots of random people have asked if their grandkids could ride my eventer (NO). On the other hand, a wonderful woman who works for me is now riding my old quarter horse on a regular basis. She's a good rider, he needs exercise, and it's a nice treat I can give her.

[harvestmoon]

maybe you didn't know it, but you're supposed to keep some old schoolie around your barn for the help! My word! I'm with Fluffie and Night Song. These people need to get a grip and realize that riding at a barn doesn't necessarily involve getting "free rein" with the horses! If I could not ride, I would either ask my trainer to ask a boarder or other person to ride my horse or to ride it herself! I would not foresee that "the staff" and their SOs would randomly be riding my horses. I can't believe some of these responses! Maybe you should let her husband ride one of your new OTTBs! lol!!!! People - these horses have owners! The board, etc. is not paid so that they can be publicly accessed! A private barn is just that! A private barn. Flame away if you like, but there better not be someone I don't know on one of my horses! Yes, it might be different if someone on the staff were talented and hired to assist the trainer, but random barn staff? No way! and before you flame? - my daughter and I are barn staff! :eek: :yes: :lol:

Geez. What the heck is wrong with asking if you can possibly ride? Just because someone is on "the staff" doesn't mean they no diddly. If she argues and whines and won't take no for answer, that's one thing. But just asking, "Hey, maybe sometime down the line, do you have a horse that I could possibly ride/hack? If not, no problem!" And who said anything about randomly riding any horse and having "free rein"? I mean, they're working for the person, they probably feel it doesn't hurt to ask. And if the BO says no, then maybe they think the BO will be able to direct them to another barn. Perhaps someone the BO knows and trusts.

[hollyhorse2000]

I'm getting a tone here -- but NOT from the poster, but from the employee. "Don't worry, I won't sue" is not the right answer. Controlling your three-year-old around a barn is. When a horse kicks the kid in the head, do you think "don't worry I won't sue" will stand up???? And arguing that non-rider husband should be allowed to ride 17.2 sale horse (no suggestion that this request included a lesson)??? In what barn would that be considered an appropriate request?

Asking politely goes like this: I would love to ride, if there's anything you have that might be appropriate for me and needs exercise, please let me know. Or this: My hubby is horse crazy. Is there any way I can get a discount on a lunge lesson for him?

My opinion -- this is a problem just waiting to happen. I'd try to find other help with a greater grasp of reality.

[nightsong]

My opinion -- this is a problem just waiting to happen. I'd try to find other help with a greater grasp of reality.

Greater grasp of reality!!! Oh, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jumphigh83]

I think part of what disappoints me is the level of animosity and disdain many of you have for people who want to ride. Clearly, there are MANY reasons you don't want people to ride your horses, and they are GOOD reasons, but many people just plain don't understand or know. It seems awfully rude to get in a huff over it. Rehearse an answer, use it and go from there.

You are SO missing the point....it is a JOB...no part of the JOB description included riding. Of course I want people who love horses like I do...BUT ....WHY would I want to supply a perfect stranger with a horse or access to same? It is just not going to happen. I dont know why that is hard to understand. When I go to work at a pool/spa store I dont expect them to provide me with a spa or pool...same for a worker at a motel/hotel...they dont expect a room...I give up. :rolleyes: :dead:

[Trixie]

And when I worked in a restaurant, I always got dinner. When I worked for a clothing store, I got free clothes, or at least a discount. While not every job offers such things, every job has some perks (Unless your job really sucks).

I'm not saying the employee isn't a lawsuit waiting to happen, nor am I saying mroades should be expected to provide her with a horse. I think Mags and I were just saying that the us versus them snarkiness is what came across first.

Most reasonable people would understand a simple "I'm sorry - that horse does not belong to me and my client could very easily sue me for letting you/your husband/anyone outside of our agreement ride him" or whatever other reason (lame, etc). If your staff is THAT unreasonable and illogical, why on earth are you trusting them to care for these horses?

[Jumphigh83]

They GAVE you clothes?? Where did you work???? I need to go there! Christmas is coming and all!! Maybe I can go to car dealer and they will give me a car/truck to use because I "like" them!! Shoe store??? Deli???...NO cooking for Thanksgiving!!! Woo hoo!!! I know..A real estate agency!! Then they will GIVE YOU a farm and you can let them ride YOUR horses!!! Work for a radio station and they will let you take the mike cuz you would "like" to! TV?? Same!!! Sounds great!

[Feenikks]

I remember working at a barn hours on end, working my butt off.. I ALWAYS asked if I could ride something - anything. Once they let me ride they saw that I could actually ride and they then, let me ride all their horses. I don;t see what the problem is???

[Trixie]

Yep - I worked in a very high end clothing store where we were expected to dress the part. If there was one thing left over in my size, it was given to me to assist with that effort, since we didn't make all that much money. Everything else we got 40% off on. I'd never have expected free stuff, demanded it, or argued with them - but it sure was nice.

Every restaurant I've ever worked in fed me, at the very least at a discount. A friend of mine works for a car dealership and he does get an employee discount, the occasional use of a car for personal use, etc.

These weren't high-paying jobs in any sense of the word, so they tried to make working there have good perks to ensure a happy staff with less turnaround.

Honestly, it's the attitude of my employer that counts.

[EponaRoan]

She lets her three year old little girl wander the farm and it scares the crap outta me...when I bring it up, she says :"I wont sue you"
Wow - I'd have even more of a problem with that than arguing about the husband riding a horse. She may not sue you, but according to the law in some states, the child can sue you up until she becomes an adult and even up to a certain time frame after adulthood is reached if she is injured. Ditto insurance companies if they pay out on the child's behalf. I'd be nipping that habit in the bud immediately - no child on the premises while she is working. Much less unsupervised and wandering. What the fruitbat?!

[3fatponies]

Damn, I don't know where you all live, but I gotta move there! I can't ever find anyone who says they want to ride and follows through--I get plenty of "can I ride?" but that's as far as it goes--despite my encouragement, they never bother to actually show up. I think it's more of a "I just want to hear 'yes' and then I can not bother actually following through, because all I really wanted was that approval" in most cases. Certainly there have been FAR more people like that who asked me to ride than actual riders asking. I wish I had people around who just needed a mount! :yes:

[Keep1Belle]

"QUOTE:"I have found wonderful barn help...a married mother of two who will work for what i can afford to pay her and takes pride in her work"

Quote:"She lets her three year old little girl wander the farm and it scares the crap outta me...when I bring it up, she says :"I wont sue you" "

Sounds like 2 different workers. Once you said shes great now you are pointing out how laxadasical(sp?) she is. Hmmm.

At any rate dont turn your nose up at people that ask to ride be happy they are interested in the horses and you did say she took pride inher work.

Consider buying her and husband a trail ride gift card or something for Xmas. if they have one of those "rent-a-horse" places around you.

BTW I worked for (2) BNT. Both olympians and you know what even the muckers got to take the horses on mounted PM walks. And these were no 40K horses they were 500K+ horses. So as little walk around the field or indoor has never hurt anyone and has kept a lot of good help.

[mroades]

LOL she is two different workers...I am sorry if you think I am snotty.......but I never said riding was prt of this job. She tells me she can work for what I can pay her because she doesnt have to pay for daycare...if I raise my board then THEY all bitch! Its a no win situation for sure.....thanks for all of your points of views....they have been helpful.

[catknsn]

The fact that the owner is a lawyer is an easy out:

"I have a contract with the owner, who's a lawyer btw, that I and only I can ride these horses for training and selling purposes. If he ever found out that I let someone else on these $40K horses, I'd lose his business and he might sue me for breach of contract."

might be a small falsehood in the first part, but the result may be completely true even if it's a stretch.

That's what I'd say. Although I remember a similar thread here and someone - wish I could remember who - came up with the perfect response "you can ride my horse if I can sleep with your husband." :D

[Chevalnoir]

Although I remember a similar thread here and someone - wish I could remember who - came up with the perfect response "you can ride my horse if I can sleep with your husband."

That one could backfire quite badly.

I can think of more than one person who would be just *thrilled* to get hubby some action they didn't have to supply - and to get a horse to ride as well.....just don't say it unless you *really* fancy hubby :eek: :cool:

[nightsong]

LOL she is two different workers...I am sorry if you think I am snotty.......but I never said riding was prt of this job. She tells me she can work for what I can pay her because she doesnt have to pay for daycare...if I raise my board then THEY all bitch! Its a no win situation for sure.....thanks for all of your points of views....they have been helpful.

Perhaps you could have her set up a "play yard" for the kid -- an unusued stall, perhaps. Just something so the kid is not wandering around and getting into who-knows-what. Unsupervised does not have to mean uncontrolled. Like you would leve a HORSE in a stall or a paddock instead of free to roam around and step on the pitchfork and eat the whole bag of grain.

[MoonBallad]

You are SO missing the point....it is a JOB...no part of the JOB description included riding. Of course I want people who love horses like I do...BUT ....WHY would I want to supply a perfect stranger with a horse or access to same? It is just not going to happen. I dont know why that is hard to understand. When I go to work at a pool/spa store I dont expect them to provide me with a spa or pool...same for a worker at a motel/hotel...they dont expect a room...I give up. :rolleyes: :dead:

But the person in question is NOT a "perfect stranger" in this situation - she is an employee responsible for taking day to day care of these horses...are you saying that you let "perfect strangers" take care of your boarder's horses, or that you really don't know your employees and their abilities very well?
As a horse owner who occassionaly has boarded her horses, I would find that extremely upsetting and would be moving my horses out of there in a really big hurry!

[magnolia73]

Mountain, meet Mole Hill

Look, if you own or ride horses people are going to ask you if they can ride your horse. It may or may not be a bad idea depending on your situation. If you have only a couple of $40k sale horses or green insane death horses- yup, not a good idea. If you have old Smokey sitting around, who knows, maybe you can get Smokey some exercise in exchange for cash or work.

People who do not ride do not understand the values associated with some horses. Mr. Magnolia can not fathom that a horse can be worth $10,000, much less the value of a house. If a random co worker or friend asks to ride your Grand Prix winning horse, they probably don't particularly understand the difference between an animal worth serious cash and one worth not so much. This ignorance isn't an excuse to be rude or complain. Just realize it will happen and have a reply handy....like I suggested earlier. It comes off as really snobby just to say "Ummm...nooo.....you wouldn't want me to sleep with your husband?". Just a simple explanation as to the real reason why suffices- training, danger whatever...plus, my god- you can educate the person.

I know that the barns I ride at, if the barn help requested some riding time, would be happy to offer up a horse for exercise. For certain, it would not be one of their competitive horses, but they would allow it. Perhaps an employee with an attachment to an animal is less likely to up and quit one day. Granted, Mroades, it sounds like you only have fancy animals your help can not ride, and you really should explain that clearly. But for what its worth, there is a good possibility that this woman could quite easily find an employer happy to let her ride- so it is worth it to ask...(but not argue...)

Horseback riding is perceived as a snobbish sport and I can see why. There are so many people who treat people who are ignorant really quite poorly instead of educating them. It is an expensive sport, horses can easily be "messed up", there is a lot of liability- all of this is very easy to communicate without offending.

[Tory Relic]

You are SO missing the point....it is a JOB...no part of the JOB description included riding. Of course I want people who love horses like I do...BUT ....WHY would I want to supply a perfect stranger with a horse or access to same? It is just not going to happen. I dont know why that is hard to understand. When I go to work at a pool/spa store I dont expect them to provide me with a spa or pool...same for a worker at a motel/hotel...they dont expect a room...I give up. :rolleyes: :dead:

Exactly!!!!!

I am really nervous about the child. My brother dated a woman who would let her small child (barely walking) down anywhere, even in my horse's paddock. I banned her from the paddock.

[Czar]

I am stunned.

Do those of you posting that it's ok to ask to ride someone else's horse own horses?

And the fact that this person is NOT a total stranger makes it worse IMO...a non-horse person asking to ride is easily avoided and understood but an experienced barn worker should know better.

I've worked as barn staff, never in a million years would I ask to ride the barn's horses or a client's horse.

To me, riding is a privilege...if you work hard and show your dedication, than the rides will come to you.

I don't buy sob stories about not being able to afford to ride - there are ALWAYS opportunities out there for a determined individual. Most people who own horses have planned and prioritized and sacrificed to be able to afford it.

Lastly, I've often found that the people who *say* that they won't sue, are the people who actually will if something goes wrong...or else why would they even think to say that?

[magnolia73]

Do those of you posting that it's ok to ask to ride someone else's horse own horses?

No, but I have ridden for 30 years and know the etiquette. Many people do not. People seriously have NO CLUE. Recent situation- a friend's husband invites me to come ride his wife's horses- one a well trained dressage horse, the other very green. He had NO CLUE that his wife might not want someone she has never seen ride on her horses. It is pretty much an unwritten rule. Non horse people might not know it- it doesn't make them jerks or bad people, just uninformed. Hell, people ask to ride my lease horse! It isn't hard to nicely say no. It isn't a problem when they ask.

Is it OK for me to ask? No, I know the rule. It isn't OK for me to ask you. But it is OK for someone who does not know the rule to ask. As for help- its a crap shoot- some know etiquette, some don't don't. They are hired to muck stalls- is knowing the etiquette a requirement?

[mp]

Mountain, meet Mole Hill

Look, if you own or ride horses people are going to ask you if they can ride your horse.

Yup Horses are like magnets. They draw people to them, many with no clue whatsoever about the effort it takes to ride/train/keep them. But that's no reason to be rude unless they won't take a polite "no" and an explanation why. Then you need to say/do whatever gets your point across ... and come here and vent. ;)

I feel incredibly privileged to own and ride horses. When I had an "anybody can ride him" gelding, I shared that privilege with a lot of people. He got mucho carrots and loads of attention and love for packing green riders in the roundpen for 15 minutes or so -- so he thought it was a pretty good deal, too. Win/win all around.

I don't have a horse like that now, so horse lovers have to content with petting and feeding carrots. But I'm not offended if someone who doesn't know any better asks to ride. That's just how it goes.

[3fatponies]

I am stunned.

Do those of you posting that it's ok to ask to ride someone else's horse own horses?


Actually, I have four. And I am more than willing to give someone an opportunity to ride, provided they agree to my rules (hat, release form, understanding that God's voice and mine are one and the same when we are riding :winkgrin: ). If they stink, I pony them on my quietest. If they do not, then they can have the reins on him. If they are good, their ride options increase to my others, not just my quiet boy. It doesn't hurt my horses to learn to carry someone other than me. If the ride is less than ideal, but I have done my job, then the horse pays it no mind and is not disturbed or scarred by the outting.

It certainly doesn't hurt me to take the time to repeal the snotty image that horse-people always seem to have. Interestingly enough, of all the people over the years who have asked to ride out of the blue, not one has actually followed through after I said they could. Maybe if we spent more time behaving like ambassadors and not prima donnas, fewer people would ask, since clearly some just want permission and acceptance, not to actually ride.

[DarkRiver]

I don't get why you still employ this person. It would be easier to raise your board and hire someone who you pay the appropriate rate of pay who won't argue with you and won't expect riding privilages. Why create problems for yourself.

[seeyalou]

I don't get why it's that difficult to communicate and be courteous. I am aware that plenty of horse people are just plain weird and antisocial but it's not that hard to listen, smile and communicate with other human beings whether they own horses or not. I love it when people pay attention to or admire my animals. But I'm not all about empty snobbery or humorless bitchery either.

Ceeerist. I think I'll go blind if I have to roll my eyes anymore at this nonsense.

[tullio]

This thread has me really sort of freaked out. I don't own my own horse right now (for a good reason, even) and depend on lessons or the generous offer of a horse to get to ride at all.

This does not mean I am not experienced; I have previously owned my own horses, showed, and ridden (and do ride) with wonderful trainers. I have a teaching certification and work at a *very* nice school, coaching riding and doing lessons. I plan to own more horses in the future, it's just not a good time for me right now.

While I would phrase it differently, I have 'asked' to ride other people's horses. I would never ask a stranger, or a barn that I've only been at for a short time. But I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, "If there is ever a need or opportunity, please know that I would love to ride for you." I have gotten plenty of rides this way - people don't always know you're available or willing. (And Czar, being talented is great - but I have had people say 'Oh, I assumed you had horses to ride at home/your other barn/etc - I would have loved for you to help school some horses.' No point in missing opportunities because you never asked.)

All the people who are saying it's unthinkable for the horseless to even mention the topic are making me feel very shy! I agree that it's fairly dreadful for us horseless folks to assume we have any right to anyone else's animal, or that we have any grounds on which to argue that we should get to ride. But please don't think too harshly of us if we quietly and politely let it be known that we'd love the chance to ride if you cared to offer it.

I realize this is far removed from the OP, but I felt like I had to say something.

[Czar]

I don't get why it's that difficult to communicate and be courteous. I am aware that plenty of horse people are just plain weird and antisocial but it's not that hard to listen, smile and communicate with other human beings whether they own horses or not. I love it when people pay attention to or admire my animals. But I'm not all about empty snobbery or humorless bitchery either.

Ceeerist. I think I'll go blind if I have to roll my eyes anymore at this nonsense.

But look at the context...this is not a neighbor coming up to pat the ponies - it's an employee that was hired to muck stalls.

I don't think mroades was out of line to be annoyed - she didn't say she flipped out and screamed at the employee (that WOULD be out of line).

Do you think it was unfair for her to be annoyed?

I have a thing against wanting things for free - or for people who don't want to put in the work or time but want the perks. It's like some ads I've seen offering barn help...but "no mucking stalls please". Ha! What is that?!

[Czar]

This thread has me really sort of freaked out. I don't own my own horse right now (for a good reason, even) and depend on lessons or the generous offer of a horse to get to ride at all.

This does not mean I am not experienced; I have previously owned my own horses, showed, and ridden (and do ride) with wonderful trainers. I have a teaching certification and work at a *very* nice school, coaching riding and doing lessons. I plan to own more horses in the future, it's just not a good time for me right now.

While I would phrase it differently, I have 'asked' to ride other people's horses. I would never ask a stranger, or a barn that I've only been at for a short time. But I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, "If there is ever a need or opportunity, please know that I would love to ride for you." I have gotten plenty of rides this way - people don't always know you're available or willing. (And Czar, being talented is great - but I have had people say 'Oh, I assumed you had horses to ride at home/your other barn/etc - I would have loved for you to help school some horses.' No point in missing opportunities because you never asked.)

All the people who are saying it's unthinkable for the horseless to even mention the topic are making me feel very shy! I agree that it's fairly dreadful for us horseless folks to assume we have any right to anyone else's animal, or that we have any grounds on which to argue that we should get to ride. But please don't think too harshly of us if we quietly and politely let it be known that we'd love the chance to ride if you cared to offer it.

I realize this is far removed from the OP, but I felt like I had to say something.

I don't really consider that asking though - more like offering your help if it is needed...COMPLETELY different.

[Luckydonkey]

Do any of us HAVE horses????
TODAY(could change tomorrow) I have 4 in my barn- all mine- all rescues, none currently rideable- (1 appy yearling that suffered a leg fracture as a weanling, 1 pregnant pony, 1 ready to start 2 yr old filly, and 1 pinto mare with trust issues) I have had horses off and on my entire life- I have always allowed people to ride- as long as I was there to help them and give direction if needed. None of my horses have ever been worth 40 grand, but they certainly all have been sensitive and need to be treated with respect towards the individual issues that tend to come with rescue horses... Currently if asked to ride, i would have to anser nothing is ready yet, but as soon as I have something ready I will gladly let you know... I welcome the help- both in cleaning stalls, and riding and grooming- it lets me assess the horse a lot better when someone else handles it, and i can watch- so that I can properly market it to get it a new home that hopefully will keep it from ending up as a rescue again. Alot of why I let people ride is that many people have misconceptions about the quality of horses that can be purchased at a sale- when I do have rideable horses they are often surprised after riding my fat well behaved beautiful horses that they came from a sale barn and could have gone to slaughter.

[mroades]

ok, because its too crappy to do anything good outside today, I will try to answer some of yalls concerns.
Ok, I admit it right off the bat, I am one of those trainers with zero business sense....and I survive from hand to mouth because I want to make what I do available to more than just the very rich. I do this because nothing lights my fire like a kid learning to see a distance for the first time, feeling a shoulder in ...etc. I shop at Walmart, I dont have a nice car, I dont buy clothes or jewelry.....and no, I cant afford health insurance.

Add to that I live in an area where there are no "riding schools", I am the only hunter trainer within 50 miles, I happen to be lucky enought to have 15 or so kids that want to show competitively at PSJ and A shows. There are no rental barns, hell there arent many barns at all. So if I raise my rates some of these folks wont get to play...and while I know I should say tuff crap...it is not who I am. I will not apologize for that.

I was simply venting that in a "perfect world" I could have someone do the job that they are paid for, and not fell put on the spot. (i had one kid like that, he was awesome except for that little drug problem I had to fire him for.....)

[3fatponies]

All the people who are saying it's unthinkable for the horseless to even mention the topic are making me feel very shy! I agree that it's fairly dreadful for us horseless folks to assume we have any right to anyone else's animal, or that we have any grounds on which to argue that we should get to ride. But please don't think too harshly of us if we quietly and politely let it be known that we'd love the chance to ride if you cared to offer it.


You can always come visit me! :winkgrin: Seriously, don't take it to heart, and don't let it stop you from asking about riding. Some people will say no, obviously, but there are plenty of us who would say yes. :D

[ESG]

She lets her three year old little girl wander the farm and it scares the crap outta me...when I bring it up, she says :"I wont sue you" And when the littel girl went in the barn refrigerator and squeezed out all of the west nile vaccine, she paid for it right away. But sheesh!!!!!!!!

This would get her fired, in my barn. I don't allow anything to run around unsupervised, especially children. And her saying, "I won't sue you" will turn into, "You'll hear from my attorney!" in a New York minute when little Preciouspoopsiekins gets stepped on/bitten/kicked/poisoned from drinking WNV vaccine. Mom needs a refresher in both child care and horse care, methinks. :eek:

[tullio]

Thanks, 3FP! It's hard enough to bring it up in the first place, and I have never seen so many opinions that it wasn't okay to even ask. Yikes!

MRoades - You are in a rough spot. Good on you for trying to keep the sport accessible (you get a shinier halo, I think) and two thumbs down to the barn help who was not gracious when asking for rides. I hope you can work it out and not lose a mostly-good barn worker.

Czar - guess I read ya wrong - thanks for clarifying.

[ESG]

You are SO missing the point....it is a JOB...no part of the JOB description included riding. Of course I want people who love horses like I do...BUT ....WHY would I want to supply a perfect stranger with a horse or access to same? It is just not going to happen. I dont know why that is hard to understand. When I go to work at a pool/spa store I dont expect them to provide me with a spa or pool...same for a worker at a motel/hotel...they dont expect a room...I give up. :rolleyes: :dead:

THat would be best. Those that get it, get it. Those that don't,...............well, it's clear they've never personally encountered a similar situation. You'd do well to save your breath. Been here, done this.

Had a lovely, sweet adult beginner, who'd had questionable instruction before she came to me. Basically, she had no basics, and could only be turned loose on my Steady Eddy schoolmaster. When I offered to let her have practice rides on my old campaigner in exchange for barn help (which I desperately needed at the time), her husband's response was, "Oh, we don't need her to have to shovel $h!t to ride - she can just help you ride and train the horses." Yee-ahhh, sure - I'll just let her take my ueber-fancy sale horse out and let her potz around on him; right up until the time he decides he's had enough and launches her. Yep, that'll help train him. Not to mention the boost it will give her self-confidence. :rolleyes:

[Lambie Boat]

how will the OP feel comfortable enough to leave for a day, with this worker left alone with the horses? I bet if OP left for a 3 day trip, this worker and her husband would be riding those horses. Because she is CLUELESS!

[ESG]

Oh, man - fei, you are so right. I didn't even think of that. Talk about scary! :eek:

[deltawave]

When I go to work at a pool/spa store I dont expect them to provide me with a spa or pool...same for a worker at a motel/hotel...they dont expect a room..

You've never developed a relationship with a superior/boss that allowed you to feel comfortable asking "Hey, boss, if you're not using that old shelf do you mind if I take it? We're redoing our garage." or "Boss, I finished sorting through those boxes from the basement and while I was down there I found that old typewriter we used to use. Is anyone using that? Because my daughter could really use one." Etc.

There are of course many sides to these stories, but I lean towards agreeing with those who observe that a lot of horse people are overly defensive and protective when people just make casual or friendly inquiries. Not harshing on the OP--more of a broad statement. If someone asks to ride my horse I try to find a way to say "yes", even if I say "no"...for instance, if they were a total beginner and wanted to ride my nutty event mare, I might say "Oh, jeez, you don't want to ride HER, she's a nut. Do you want to hop on this other one for a few minutes one day after I've ridden? She's much easier." Etc. It's called being an ambassador for the horse industry and while we don't all HAVE TO, it's nice when you can.

One of the best and earliest horse memories I have is when a friend of a friend of a friend type of person picked me up and plopped me in the saddle of her beautiful horse for about 2 minutes at a show I went to with my mom just to watch. I was probably 8 or 9, horse crazy, and that was like a dream to me. :)

The girl who basically taught me to ride did so on her very nice, Prelim event horse. She gave me longe lessons on him and even let me take him to a couple of shows. Why? She was my friend, and she had been taught to ride by someone who did it because someone had done it for them. Etc. She asked me, in return for the MANY lessons she gave me for free, to always give someone a chance if I could in the future.

Sorry, getting all philosophical here...but the kinder and more generous answer is often the right one. :)

[3fatponies]

Thanks, 3FP! It's hard enough to bring it up in the first place, and I have never seen so many opinions that it wasn't okay to even ask. Yikes!


Don't let it make you unwilling to ask. As long as you are polite and respectful when you ask, and gracious if they say no, then your request should not be an issue. If you handle it like that and it's still an issue, then I suspect it is their issue, not yours. :D

I try to let anyone interested have some interaction. After all, these are the same people I might someday need help from when my horses decide to go for (yet another!) stroll down the road without me. They are the same people who have in the past possibly saved my horse's life by taking the time to stop the car and bang on the front door to tell me, rather than just continuing to drive.

How stupid is it for me to be unkind to them? Shouldn't I encourage their interest when it could result in such a profound difference in possible outcomes? Why wouldn't I want the greatest number of people I can get to love horses? How does that impact me negatively? If the price is an occasional lead-line ride, or the chance to brush one, is that too much to pay? Not to me.

With all the grief we take as "rich snobs," and all the access that riders are losing, why cop a 'tude when you can gain an advocate instead? :winkgrin:

[Chevalnoir]

I was also taught that it's never, ever, ever ok to ask to ride someone else's horse. I have since come to take a bit of a different point of view on that - largely because I have an uncomplicated horse who would benefit from more exercise and I would *love* to have someone competent ride him a couple times a week or so. However - there is a way of asking that makes it easy for the owner to say no if they want to. Something like "If you ever need some help keeping Spot exercised, I would love to have the opportunity to do that" is a lot different from "I really really want to ride Spot. Can I ride him this weekend? No? How about next Wednesday then, I have time next Wednesday. What do you mean, you don't let anyone else ride him? He'll be fine for me, I have lots of experience and I just love horses and I'm sure Spot will *love* to have me ride him and I can fix all those little problems you've been having with him while I'm up there, too....".

The first is polite and puts no one on the spot - it's easy for the owner to say "Thanks for offering, I'll keep that in mind", and if they don't want you to ride, they just don't follow through on asking you, they don't even have to come right out and say no. No harm done.

The second is just plain ignorant and will likely require a response of similar rudeness before it sinks in - and then there will be hurt feelings.

[Tory Relic]

ok, because its too crappy to do anything good outside today, I will try to answer some of yalls concerns.
Ok, I admit it right off the bat, I am one of those trainers with zero business sense....and I survive from hand to mouth because I want to make what I do available to more than just the very rich. I do this because nothing lights my fire like a kid learning to see a distance for the first time, feeling a shoulder in ...etc. I shop at Walmart, I dont have a nice car, I dont buy clothes or jewelry.....and no, I cant afford health insurance.

Add to that I live in an area where there are no "riding schools", I am the only hunter trainer within 50 miles, I happen to be lucky enought to have 15 or so kids that want to show competitively at PSJ and A shows. There are no rental barns, hell there arent many barns at all. So if I raise my rates some of these folks wont get to play...and while I know I should say tuff crap...it is not who I am. I will not apologize for that.

I was simply venting that in a "perfect world" I could have someone do the job that they are paid for, and not fell put on the spot. (i had one kid like that, he was awesome except for that little drug problem I had to fire him for.....)

Man, isn't it crappy here today? I still have to drive to NC today (only a couple hours to where I'm going). Blech.

You are my exact opposite. I do work OTHER than with horses so that I can have horses, and health insurance (my husband is handicapped and it is essential). I'm still not rich, of course, buy lots of things at WalMart and on sale, and our vehicles are older than this decade's models.

But I admire people who know what they want to do and make the best of their choices. It's not always an easy road. There are days I'd like nothing more than to get away from the office politics, turf wars, etc., and just muck some stalls. But not so much on days like this. I would LOVE to have the judging experience you have, but my life hasn't been spent in a way that fostered this. We have to live with our choices, but heck, it is great to be able to just sound off once in awhile when we are frustrated by the things we can't control. It's just a blip, not an entire philosophy. :eek:

[Adamantane]

In reading through what is now a quiet thread, I'm struck once again by just how much useful advice somebody can obtain here for the price of posting a question, and how rich and diverse the range of relevant experience and opinion is. (And the more I read some folks' posts, the more I think I would really like them if I knew them in person.)

Sometimes I think it might be helpful for all OP's to provide more context at the outset, because the additional information that comes out later can sometimes change the slant considerably. I'll try to do that myself in the future. (Though some hint that I provide too much context as it is.:lol:)

It always seems that diplomatically asking for something or about something or expressing interest gets MUCH better results than sitting quietly and waiting for whatever's needed to spontaneously fall from the sky. It was the way of the world fifty years ago, for example, to just do your job and wait to be recognized and promoted, but nowadays if one does not express some interest in advancing at work, not only does no promotion occur most of the time but the apparent lack of interest often is taken as a negative.

It may well be easier to obtain forgiveness than permission, but if things go very wrong, they can totally spin out of control very fast, and there is a lot of fast serious downside when things get out of hand with a horse.

Being overbearing, dishonest, sneaky or a PITA (such as in here in bringing kids [or dogs!] along to the barn without permission and then letting 'em run wild), sure is a red light, however.:yes:

If I hadn't asked, I'd never have gotten involved with horses (or much of anything else), because people weren't exactly waiting in the wings to push it on me. Once I expressed an interest, however, it was amazing how helpful and willing people were willing to be.

Life is often about risk. The OP risked getting blasted for posting her frustration:yes:, just as the woman working at her barn risked earning the OP's displeasure for asking to ride. And it happened. That's life.

Some 2-way communication is always better than none, and often a lot is much better. The more everybody sees the pieces in the puzzle (even if they don't like the picture revealed) at least there won't be the vague sense that someone or both people are either being flaky or nasty.

Bottom line for me here is generally to be unafraid to ask politely for most anything, and accept that it might not be taken or answered as hoped. When asked politely, be thoughtful and forthcoming as reasonable as to the reason one way or the other (and if not immediately, then soon after). The better people understand each other's reasoning, the less likely they will go away hurt or angry, should they completely disagree.

[Adamantane]

That's what I'd say. Although I remember a similar thread here and someone - wish I could remember who - came up with the perfect response "you can ride my horse if I can sleep with your husband." :D

Oh, and that reminds me, be careful what you ask for, or offer.:winkgrin:

[goeslikestink]

boy oh boy oh boy--- are you a walk over ?

look at it another way ok dokey

1 SHE wants her hubby to ride the 40k neddy

2- shes a good worker becuase SHE doesnt have to pay daycare

3 SHE lets her child wander about tthe neddys

4 SHE wont sue


SHE IS IN CONTROL OF YOUR YARD ----


look matey rules are rules you set them

your yard you pay her to do a job you do not pay her to have her kid there she should and put it somewhere safe for the time she with you ie nans playceter day care its not your responsiblity but if anything happened then you could be liable if she has her child around the horses
a child of 3 is a child that needs to be supervised


your yard is not a playground and to be honest look at it another way you say you have a lawyer with a 40k horse -- if you want respect then treat your yard as a yard of a business with strcit rulings

no kids --- if they a groom they a groom but no kid in tow it will cost you dear -- in a possoible sue as if something sis happen she would sue beilve me blood is thicker -- and you just open for a a sue -- but most of all it doesnt say a lot for your professionalism suposing someone lfet you yard and said cor dont go there mate she her yard runs a muck kids all over the place unattended -- and some old groom and her other half cant ride and they r ide the horses and bloody riun them --


rules are rules be stronger -- your yard and se yourself by exsample up your standards so you will be reconisee by word of mouth as a proffessional yard and then you might find you have btter clinets and can up your fees

if she wont work without the kid -- say bye bye

[Candle]

I learned to ride through the generosity of others too. I think most of us did. My school friend's mother took me to a local show when I was about 7 or 8, let me ride in a W/T division on her FANCY pony, and took pictures of me when I won (thanks to FANCY pony). I still remember that to this day. What if she had griped and whined about how all people do is ask to ride the damn horses?

Give your worker a diplomatic and polite answer. If she is not trustworthy enough to stay off the horses when you are not there, take appropriate action. If you simply canNOT find good barn help without them wanting to ride, consider buying an old packer as a "schoolie" for workers. Problem solved. If you don't want the toddler running around, take that up with her. But don't get irritated because she asked to ride. What if nobody gave any of us the chance to ride- even for a few minutes to cool them down? What good would that do for the sport?