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View Full Version : who was the 5 year old mare in the Cesar Parra clinic @ Equine Affaire yesterday?



Lisa Cook
Nov. 12, 2006, 10:19 AM
Lovely, lovely horse! Wow! She really made quite an impression on me, with both her movement and temperament. Does anyone know who she is? Did anyone else happen to see her?

iownapaint
Nov. 12, 2006, 10:33 AM
I saw her, and yes, I will back up your description of her. She had GREAT movement. His method of relaxing and stretching them out and then picking them up for work really seems to work!

Did you see him ride his stallion Galant in the 3:30 seminar? Amazingly relaxed. From piaffe and passage to walking on the buckle in one step. No tenseness what-so-ever. Great to see very happy horses looking so good.

friesian4me
Nov. 12, 2006, 11:49 AM
That horse was ridden by Katie Riley his assistant. It must be one of his horses that is for sale. (I'm guessing) Beautiful horse and rider.

K Bayo
Jan. 16, 2007, 11:40 PM
Has anyone heard about Para losing all his rides on Whittens horses?

pophorse
Jan. 17, 2007, 07:54 AM
no idea..
where did you hear this?
I would find it hard to believe, she's very close to him and seems quite pleased with the results he's achieved..

jiggles
Jan. 17, 2007, 08:42 AM
I was at a clinic at apple knowl farm in new england last weekend and I thought the results where wonderfull!!!
There was also talk on this board that Furst Fabio was sold to Hubertus Schmidt , He said he still has him, and is doing great!!!!

iownapaint
Jan. 17, 2007, 11:05 AM
I was also at the CRDA clinic at Apple Knoll and at the banquet afterward and there was no mention of him having sponsor troubles. Actually he mentioned how appreciative he was of many people like her.

And yes jiggles, I thought the clinic was great too. Very refreshing to see someone tell it like it is and push riders. I think quite a few of the auditors were not impressed, but the riders all agreed that they enjoyed their experience.

jiggles
Jan. 17, 2007, 01:51 PM
The main focus was relaxation!! It is at the top of the training scale!!
I also think the riders enjoyed it!!!

tempichange
Jan. 17, 2007, 03:51 PM
From when I last chatted to him (November, so things could have changed) Fabio was distinctly off market, and he was anxiously awaiting his arrival.

jiggles
Jan. 17, 2007, 04:10 PM
He said they just could not part with him!!! Love that horse !!
Anyone one else attend the clinic at apple knowl love to hear what you thought!

Lisa Cook
Jan. 17, 2007, 04:14 PM
jiggles - I usually don't get hung up on little stuff like spelling, but since you've done this twice now, and I can't bear to see it so butchered...it is Apple KNOLL farm. ;)

Please...carry on!

jiggles
Jan. 18, 2007, 08:30 AM
I am not great at spelling !! Sorry !!

SHW
Jan. 18, 2007, 10:35 PM
I was at the clinic and the CRDA dinner where Cesar spoke. I had a wonderful day and enjoyed his sense of humor and his honesty. He was able to get all the horses to relax and do good long and low work with the hindquarters engaged. Every horse improved. It was such a joy to see.

jiggles
Jan. 19, 2007, 10:44 AM
I agree, I was also at both the clinic and the dinner it was very nice to see the horse's relax!! I knew some of the horse's and to me they seemed much more through and swinging.
BUT, THERE IS ALWAY'S A BUT!!! REG TRAINER DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE METHOD!!!!! TO LOW ETC, ETC,ETC!!!!
Please excuse the spelling if it is wrong (sorry)

K Bayo
Jan. 19, 2007, 12:03 PM
no idea..
where did you hear this?
I would find it hard to believe, she's very close to him and seems quite pleased with the results he's achieved..

You are in Florida where its all happening. Is it a rumor or is it true?

njdq2u
Jan. 19, 2007, 09:59 PM
The mare's name is "What Happen" known as Happy, owned by Heather Mendiburu. She was one of the top bundeschampionat horses this past fall. A really super horse!!!!

pophorse
Jan. 20, 2007, 10:45 AM
I have AGAIN heard that Parra has lost his ride on all of Horses Unlimited's horses.
This is an unsubstantiated rumour at best but who knows, sometimes when you hear things a few times from different sources there might be some truth behind the rumour.
If it's so that would be a pretty tough blow for him, although he's got some nice horses of his own it remains to be seen if he can afford the top-dollar, push-button, ready-made rides that his sponsor bought for him over the years.
That being said I would not be too surprised if he got another sponsor pretty soon to fill her shoues, he's got quite a following.

jrdressage
Jan. 20, 2007, 06:04 PM
This is not rumor- all of the horses unlimited horses have been removed from his stables and care and are now under the care and supervision of someone else! 9 horses were taken.....

ToN Farm
Jan. 20, 2007, 07:01 PM
If it's true, then why has DressageDaily or EuroDressage not broadcasted it to the world. Why keep it a secret when people will find out eventually anyway.

pophorse
Jan. 20, 2007, 07:48 PM
Wow!
whatever happened I wonder! They were so close!!
Anyone know? He actually was or is in the process of getting his US passport so he could compete for the US, so that would probably be a plus for his (now) ex-sponsor, you would think.
Someone should start a new thread about this..
Nine horses he had from H. Unlimited!!
That will be a hole in the books.
Why have you not heard from Dressage Daily and/or Eurodressage?
Because Parra is a client and they are probably busy figuring out how to place some type of "positive" spin on this disaster for the good doc.

Bundy
Jan. 20, 2007, 08:37 PM
then he has lost them all - fuerst fabio, galant, the new bundeschampionat horse donovan. breaking news for sure. Horse news like this travels fast so Dressage Daily won't be able to keep quiet on it for too much longer.

pophorse
Jan. 20, 2007, 09:14 PM
I thought Furst Fabio was his?
or not?

Bundy
Jan. 20, 2007, 11:35 PM
last I heard he got the sponsor to buy the horse from him and keep him on the ride. But that he didn't own him outright. It had said before that the horse was owned with Horses Unlimited on his website. So maybe he got a different sponsor to buy Fabio for him now.

rebecca yount
Jan. 21, 2007, 10:48 AM
A couple of months ago an email was forwarded to me, which was written by Dr. Parra, asking for contributions to support Furst Fabio, but in the email Dr. Parra very clearly said that he owned Furst Fabio completely.

Bundy
Jan. 21, 2007, 12:47 PM
I was told via Hubertus Schmidt's barn that Cesar got a sponsor recently to buy the horse - about the time this whole thing came up with HS wanting to buy the horse. So he got the best of both worlds- the money and the ride on the horse.

press release on astrid's site
http://www.eurodressage.com/news/dressage/america/2007/parra-horsesunlimited.html

ise@ssl
Jan. 21, 2007, 01:21 PM
I suppose what I'll never understand is this emphasis on Relaxation - which is a great thing and that "colloseum of terror roundpen" they use for the horses. Just doesn't work for me.

K Bayo
Jan. 22, 2007, 01:03 AM
It took a while for them to find the positive spin.

Sabine
Jan. 22, 2007, 01:15 AM
then he has lost them all - fuerst fabio, galant, the new bundeschampionat horse donovan. breaking news for sure. Horse news like this travels fast so Dressage Daily won't be able to keep quiet on it for too much longer.

I have posted this before- but after the presentation where Hubertus rode Fuerst Fabio and shortly after made clear that he planned on buying him- Cesar found another sponsor and replaced the previous share-owner and Hubertus was left out in the cold- after show casing the horse like no one else ever could...
Hubertus was heartbroken and has said he will NEVER ride a horse in a symposium again- that is not his.....

pophorse
Jan. 22, 2007, 08:28 AM
It's a golden opportunity for him to prove he can actually train a horse to GP, and silence his detractors. Time will tell!

kkj
Jan. 22, 2007, 08:33 AM
I for one feel sorry for him. I hope he takes either Fabio or Donovan to the top and quiets everyone who loves to rip on him.

Also I think the picture of him and Fuerst Fabio in the Dressage Daily article is very nice. This is his horse. Just because someone more successful has ridden the horse better does not mean that they deserve the horse. Hell if that were true I could have taken a lot of kids junior hunters. My current horse, who I love dearly would have been snatched up by one of the clinicians who said they would like to take her home. Remember a horse's desire is not to win the Olympics. The horse just wants to be fed, turned-out and not hurt etc.

Kathy Johnson
Jan. 22, 2007, 08:44 AM
My current horse, who I love dearly would have been snatched up by one of the clinicians who said they would like to take her home.

Yep, I once had a clinician who "loved" the horse I was riding in the clinic. Turned out it wasn't the horse she loved so much. She was after the wealthy client who owned him.

What is this roundpen thing?

ise@ssl
Jan. 22, 2007, 08:46 AM
kkj - I may be wrong but that photo looks like it was taken at DAD this year. And again - correct me if I'm wrong - but Furst Fabio did not complete his rides in the classes he was entered in. Can anyone else verify this? He's a gorgeous horse - I would have loved to see him in Hubertus barn.

As far as the roundpen - ask the people who train with him at his farms.

kkj
Jan. 22, 2007, 08:55 AM
Yeah I know he did not complete his rides at DAD. However, a lot of the horses that go on to be the best at Grand Prix were super hot or disasterous as young horses. I think CP still has time to redeem himself and I really hope he does.

kkj
Jan. 22, 2007, 09:09 AM
As far as the roundpen - ask the people who train with him at his farms.


OK here we go again starting sh**. I don't know CP and have only seen him ride in competition. I thought he did a fine job. Yeah he is not Hubertus but he is pretty darn good. I have never heard about him abusing horses or whatever you are alluding to in a round pen. If he did do abusive or dangerous or otherwise not good things in the roundpen and you had witnessed this yourself and wanted to come on here and report exactly what you saw, well go for it. I for one will not defend, support or esteem riders I know are abusive or dangerous (in my mind). If your beef with him is not just that he is a Latin man who you find offensive or who you don't think should be riding fancy American owned horses, or who you think isn't good enough to deserve to ride these horses, that is your opinion. If you have witnessed such person doing cruel or abusive or whatever unspeakable things in the round pen that is something else. Which is it anyway?
Either tell us what you have seen him do in a roundpen or don't mention it.

ise@ssl
Jan. 22, 2007, 09:10 AM
Time will tell. From the prior posts - do we assume that Hubertus will NOT be working with Cesar in the future?

Look kkj - I didn't allude to anything - don't presume to put meaning into any posts. Please point out where I used the word abuse or cruel in my post - or remove it in yours. You are stating in your post that I said this - I did not! The name of the roundpen was related to me by people who have worked there. The method used in the roundpen is NOT one that I would even consider for any of our horses. You are a fan -that's your choice.

Sabine
Jan. 22, 2007, 11:31 AM
It's a golden opportunity for him to prove he can actually train a horse to GP, and silence his detractors. Time will tell!

100% agreed...

kkj
Jan. 22, 2007, 12:32 PM
Look kkj - I didn't allude to anything - don't presume to put meaning into any posts. Please point out where I used the word abuse or cruel in my post - or remove it in yours. You are stating in your post that I said this - I did not! The name of the roundpen was related to me by people who have worked there. The method used in the roundpen is NOT one that I would even consider for any of our horses. You are a fan -that's your choice.


"colloseum of terror roundpen"-- you don't define what this is exactly, but I think 9 out of 10 people reading it will think it is some kind of abuse. You cannot just throw out some description like that and then not back it up. You seem like an intelligent person and when you wrote "colloseum of terror roundpen" you must have known the image it would conjure up in people. Therefore, I do believe you alluded to cruelty, abuse whatever. "Colloseum of terror roundpen" conjures up visions of someone being fed to the lions or bullfights or whatever other terrors people are going to imagine going on in the Coliseum.

I never said I was a fan of CP. If I knew what this "colloseum of terror roundpen" thing was and you were a credible source (which I have no idea whether you are or not) and I found it to be some unacceptable or abusive training method then I would have a better idea. From what I have seen of the man, I have no complaints. I don't think some of the criticisms of him are warrented. However, I don't know him or anyone who rides with or works for him or anything like that. If you do and you feel compelled to put stuff like "colloseum of terror roundpen", then come clean and describe to us what exactly that is.

Thanks

ToN Farm
Jan. 22, 2007, 01:10 PM
OK here we go again starting sh**. Either tell us what you have seen him do in a roundpen or don't mention it.
I'd hardly think that anyone is starting sh**. Do you think any 'wise' person would dare make written derrogatory remarks and accusations about any BNT on the internet.

I'll tell you about what that kind of round pen looks like, and yes, I have ridden in one. It is a 20 meter pen. The walls are solid wooden planks. They are very high. The horse cannot see out nor can the rider. You can't see in it either, unless you peek through the cracks of the wood. While you can just hack around in a circle inside the pen, the primary purpose of it (for some trainers) is to do the piaffe and passage work. You have a rider on a horse and then a ground person tapping the hocks/rump. The horse pretty much has to do what is asked, because there aren't many options open to him. Terror? Yes, I think that some horses are very frightened of the closed pen. Abusive? Could be and might not be. Depends on how you view things.

jiggles
Jan. 22, 2007, 01:24 PM
I guess if that is what you are saying all BNT QH people are abbusive, because just about everyone has a tower of terror!!
I have seen a lot of them used for lunging the western horse !!! It depends on the trainer, there not all abbusive!!!

pophorse
Jan. 22, 2007, 01:32 PM
That's an interesting point about HS training Parra again. Moritz was training him in Devon, and the uproar that followed prompted the FEI to quickly produce a so-called Codex or code of ethics for all FEI judges, outlawing many of the practices that people were critical in CP's relationship with top judges such as Moritz and Witaghes. This Codex was presented to all judges recently at their meeting in Germany.
So if Hubertus is upset (?) with Parra about Fabio (which in a funny sort of way is ironic that Parra was able to secure the horse over such a big gun!), and now Moritz or Witaghes cannot assist him, who will he train with?
I know!
ROMRA!!!
ha ha ha!!!
About the round pen of terror who knows...so many things done everywhere to our poor horses. Never heard of that one before.
Which begs the question, if it is so, where did he learn this technique? See above??

ponyjumper4
Jan. 22, 2007, 01:36 PM
An entirely enclosed roundpen is no big deal. They are typically used with horses that get distracted easily, like young horses for example. They are tall so the horse can't jump out when free lunged. That's ideally how a roundpen is supposed to be made, but different people have different preferrences and therefore you have different varieties of "roundpens".

pophorse
Jan. 22, 2007, 01:49 PM
No need to worry about Furst Fabio going in the "pen of pain" or whatever anytime soon. I have seen that horse go and trust me you stick it in a 20m pen and start tapping it around and it will probably explode like a rocket out of it.

jiggles
Jan. 22, 2007, 02:25 PM
Whips, spur's, hand's etc,etc cn be abbusive in the wrong hands (minds)

kkj
Jan. 22, 2007, 02:25 PM
I'd hardly think that anyone is starting sh**. Do you think any 'wise' person would dare make written derrogatory remarks and accusations about any BNT on the internet.

I'll tell you about what that kind of round pen looks like, and yes, I have ridden in one. It is a 20 meter pen. The walls are solid wooden planks. They are very high. The horse cannot see out nor can the rider. You can't see in it either, unless you peek through the cracks of the wood. While you can just hack around in a circle inside the pen, the primary purpose of it (for some trainers) is to do the piaffe and passage work. You have a rider on a horse and then a ground person tapping the hocks/rump. The horse pretty much has to do what is asked, because there aren't many options open to him. Terror? Yes, I think that some horses are very frightened of the closed pen. Abusive? Could be and might not be. Depends on how you view things.

Um, I know what a round pen looks like and I have used one to start a horse or two. I don't find a round pen in itself abusive at all. The phrase "colloseum of terror roundpen" made me think there was something going on in that round pen that um caused this terror.
Ise@ssl do you think all round pens are Coliseums of terror or is it something in particular that goes on in CP's round pen? See I really thought it was the latter. If Ise@ssl and some others of you just think a solid wall round pen in itself is Terror, then I gotta say I definitely don't agree.

Still hold to my assertion that putting in the phrase "colloseum of terror round pen" was starting sh**. There is no description of what this is but the connotation is definitely a negative one.

ise@ssl
Jan. 22, 2007, 03:15 PM
Hello kkj - the descriptive name of the roundpen was not mine - see my earlier post.

JMHO - but ....roundpens are useful for training "correctly". Solid roundpens are actually what I prefer if I had one (actually might build one) BUT solid roundpens with extremely deep footing used for having a horse/rider trot around with a ground person using a whip to obtain the biggest trot step the horse can do on that circle for a period of time - is ....again IMHO - asking for soft tissue damage.

dressage36
Jan. 22, 2007, 03:31 PM
I have been training with Cesar for a long time and it truly amuses me to hear some of the things people say about him. I think a lot of people will say these ridiculous things just to spite him. And i will tell you, the footing in the roundpen is EXCELLENT! It is not at all deep. I will also tell you that never in my time at Cesar's barn (i go there every day) have i ever seen anything cruel done. Its easy to sit on the computer and bash someone, but i would really like to see any one of you get on his horses that you like to call "push button" and do what he does and get results like he does. He is a great rider, people just need to accept it and stop trying to make this man look bad, because he deserves all the success life has to offer and so does everyone else who is as pleasant, kind, and skilled as he is.

ise@ssl
Jan. 22, 2007, 04:01 PM
How tragic - I just read on Europedresage that Hubertus Schmitz's horse Forrest Gump was put down. I feel so sorry for him - he is a superior horseman.

iownapaint
Jan. 22, 2007, 04:07 PM
Its easy to sit on the computer and bash someone, but i would really like to see any one of you get on his horses that you like to call "push button" and do what he does and get results like he does. He is a great rider, people just need to accept it and stop trying to make this man look bad, because he deserves all the success life has to offer and so does everyone else who is as pleasant, kind, and skilled as he is.

YES!!! :yes: I have riden with him, seen him teach, and talked with him at length. Cesar is an excellent horseman who deserves nothing but success. He wishes others nothing but success. If only you all could follow his example.

Those who base opinions on pictures and rumors are jumping to conclusions, which are wrong. Perhaps they are just jealous.

jiggles
Jan. 22, 2007, 04:07 PM
This is very sad new's!!!(Forest Cump)
I am glad someone stuck up for this poor man!! There is no place for people to say the things they say unless they can back it up!!!
Just because they can not see out of a round pen does not make it a bad thing!!

dressage36
Jan. 22, 2007, 04:07 PM
that is very sad

ise@ssl
Jan. 22, 2007, 04:12 PM
Well with all the changes in the dressage scene and new rules it will be a very interesting competition season!

Dirigo
Jan. 22, 2007, 04:55 PM
I am with dressage36 100%.

I have known Cesar for quite some time now, he loves his family, his horses, and his people.
I have never seen him be anything but kind, and dispite his columbian "fire", he is a very humble man, who takes nothing for granted.
He is greatful every day for his blessings.
One should walk into his barn, and see EVERY single horse ridden well, to appreciate the consistency, effort and skill involved.
Some of the people on this board, could take a lesson from this man, in terms of seeing the good in people.
Dirigo

Sabine
Jan. 22, 2007, 05:19 PM
Read Eurodressage- CP's sponsor split and he is down to 2 horses...things change quickly when you loose your top sponsor....what a crazy sport this really is...??!!

dressage36
Jan. 22, 2007, 05:29 PM
But the 2 horses he has are incredible youngsters that he will train to be successful competitors, and as always, cesar is grateful for what he has even if the number of horses decreases.

grayandbay
Jan. 22, 2007, 05:37 PM
We all have our own opinion and thoughts. I see things at shows that I think is "wrong" , yet others think nothing of it. I see judges or "authority" coaching which is illegal and I think that is "wrong", while others think nothing of it. We all see what we want to see and make our "own" opinion...good or bad or right or wrong....time tells all and I "believe" in that.

kkj
Jan. 22, 2007, 06:34 PM
Dirigo and Dressage36 that is more of what I was looking for- the opinions of people who ride with him now or in the past. I do wish him the best.

Ise@ssl I know the "collisium of terror roundpen" was not your phrase, however it was you who chose to put it up on this board without any discription as to what it was. If the footing in the round pen in your mind is too deep and horses are pushed beyond a safe limit with whips, well that would have been a much better description than the one you put in quotes. I don't know whether or not I would find his round pen training out or line or not, but I would not make a judgement on it unless I witnessed it first hand.

Too bad about Forrest Gump. I hope Hubertus gets another amazing Grand Prix ride soon too.

Atlantis
Jan. 22, 2007, 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkj
OK here we go again starting sh**. Either tell us what you have seen him do in a roundpen or don't mention it.

I'd hardly think that anyone is starting sh**. Do you think any 'wise' person would dare make written derrogatory remarks and accusations about any BNT on the internet.


Surely you are joking? People make false accusations all the time on the internet!

The innuendo and gossip and rumors get old. If someone has facts to share, fine. If not, people should keep the innuendo and unsubstantiated rumors to themselves.

Isn't it funny that the people saying some of the nastiest things about Cesar don't even know him, whereas the people who do know him are the ones chiming in to defend him.

Sabine, Cesar had quite a few clients besides the horses he lost. He is hardly going to go out of business or anything else equally absurd. He has a very good reputation and plenty of clients of his own. Your post made it sound like he had a nearly empty barn!

Sabine
Jan. 22, 2007, 10:20 PM
Sabine, Cesar had quite a few clients besides the horses he lost. He is hardly going to go out of business or anything else equally absurd. He has a very good reputation and plenty of clients of his own. Your post made it sound like he had a nearly empty barn!

Nope- I just quoted what the story on Eurodressage said: He has 2 horses to compete and is looking for a new 'partner'. I am neither for or against CP- I have only seen videos of him and know nothing about his practices- I am just amazed at how this business works and how quickly an openly envied competitor (as previously read in other threads) can be down to 2 world class horses (rather than umpteen....)

there is no emotion ...just amazement on my part!!

Atlantis
Jan. 22, 2007, 10:26 PM
I am just amazed at how this business works and how quickly an openly envied competitor (as previously read in other threads) can be down to 2 world class horses (rather than umpteen....)

there is no emotion ...just amazement on my part!!

Of the eight horses belonging to Horses Unlimited, only four were well known (though I don't know that I'd call them all world class), which is hardly umpteen.... Also the two he kept were as nice or nicer than the others.

Keeping the rumor mill in perspective:winkgrin: .

Sabine
Jan. 22, 2007, 10:29 PM
Of the eight horses belonging to Horses Unlimited, only four were well known (though I don't know that I'd call them all world class), which is hardly umpteen.... Also the two he kept were as nice or nicer than the others.

Keeping the rumor mill in perspective:winkgrin: .

good for him- I agree that FF is absolutely world class- but I have often read that he had a rather nice collection of gorgeous horses, and the loss of Garant de Sorein must be very painful for him...if anything I feel really bad for him.

YoungFilly
Jan. 22, 2007, 10:34 PM
Nope- I just quoted what the story on Eurodressage said: He has 2 horses to compete and is looking for a new 'partner'. I am neither for or against CP- I have only seen videos of him and know nothing about his practices- I am just amazed at how this business works and how quickly an openly envied competitor (as previously read in other threads) can be down to 2 world class horses (rather than umpteen....)

there is no emotion ...just amazement on my part!!

Actually, a friend of mine who has an international caliber horse, has that horse in training with him. I am sure my friend is not the only one with an international caliber horse in training with him. He probably has more options than would meet the eye.

K Bayo
Jan. 22, 2007, 10:38 PM
I am sure that Galant de Serein is sighing with relief.

Dirigo
Jan. 22, 2007, 10:42 PM
K Bayo that was exactly the sort of nasty remark, that's uncalled for.

dressage36
Jan. 23, 2007, 01:26 AM
K bayo, have you ever watched cesar actually school galant? ever seen him school the horse more then once? I would like to know, because i saw that horse go every day and it was a joy to see how relaxed, supple, and happily such a huge horse worked day to day.

pophorse
Jan. 23, 2007, 05:26 AM
I have seen CP school Galant many a times through the years (both before a show and just plain schooling) and I can honestly say that I would have to agree with K Bayo on that one. To me the horse did not seem relaxed, supple or happy.
I would also agree with Sabine on her view, and like I said in an earlier post now he's got a great chance to prove everyone wrong by bringing Fabio and Donavan to GP and doing well with them. The fact is that it would not seem that things were going too well with Fabio in Devon, from what I saw there.
We are entitled to our opinion after all, don't believe for a second that all of us that might have critical views of Parra are speculating or making things up.
I respect his ability to succeed, however there are things about the way he operates that I am not so keen on, and my opinion is not bashing him, it's just that-my opinion based on what I've seen!

XHalt
Jan. 23, 2007, 07:59 AM
Regarding Galant, they definitely seemed to be at each other's throats quite a bit. If you watch the video on dressageclinic.com of Hubertus schooling them he probably tells Cesar 20 times to not fight with him.
I'm sure Cesar will have plently of horses back in his barn in no time.

K Bayo
Jan. 23, 2007, 11:50 PM
I know Galant is heaving a huge sigh of relief.

cinder88
Jan. 24, 2007, 10:42 AM
""Isn't it funny that the people saying some of the nastiest things about Cesar don't even know him, whereas the people who do know him are the ones chiming in to defend him.""

This has NOTHING to do with the trainer in discussion. It is a general rule that I have observed time and time again. There are always a number of "camps" in this type of discussion.

The people who do know and like him are going to jump to his defense...That's what friends and clients (Who obviously trust the person, or they wouldn't be paying him), do.

The people who "Don't even know him.." would be the ones who have some knowledge of the trainer either personally or through others opinions, and have made a decision that they don't care for his methods. Therefore, they "don't even know him", because they aren't interested.

Then, there are likely a silent bunch who were in both camps...Trusted a trainer, got to "know" him, gave him money and horses and then realized that the trainer wasn't "quite" what they wanted/needed/trusted/liked...whatever. Those people just keep their mouths shut because they already know everything they need to know about said trainer. Or, they come on as alters and get a few swipes in.

Then there are those who have observed the trainer, and give an honest opinion of what they observed, stating that it was something they saw and did/didn't care for.

I know all this first hand because my trainer's place has a bad reputation in the area. The things I've heard would curl your hair. I know, having been there for 4 years, that 80% of them aren't true at all, and the other 20% have some kernel of truth to them but have been blown out of proportion through gossip, and the way people always want to be able to add to "the story" so it seems they are "in the know".

It's all human nature...not very surprising at all.

Cinder

siegi b.
Jan. 24, 2007, 12:14 PM
In my opinion, CP is his own worst enemy. Unless he changes the attitude he likes to display in public places like DAD, there will always be folks that develop a dislike for him - rightfully so, I might add.

kkj
Jan. 24, 2007, 12:35 PM
Siegi what do you mean by his attitude? I have not witnessed it so this is an honest question. What does he do that turns so many people off?

ise@ssl
Jan. 24, 2007, 03:55 PM
dressage 36 - are you representing that he schooled Galant daily?

and pophorse - I agree with what you wrote. Time will tell.

And after see Fabio at DAD and seeing the clips of Hubertus riding him - I would have LOVED to see this horse's training in Hubertus' hands. He is a fabulous fabulous horse but his temperament - IMHO - takes a person who can understand this and work with it - not against it.

pophorse
Jan. 24, 2007, 05:54 PM
Siegi has hit the nail in the head 100%
He really is his own worse enemy, and he should realize this sooner better than later, for his sake.
He comes across as being too arrogant, self-promoting and boisterous in many people's eyes.
That's the attitude Siegi was referring to. Our sport respects people that quietly toll for hours on end, who are restrained in their public persona, who refrain from self promotion and from flaunting to the world the ""connections'" they have with judges etc. He has done the opposite so far. That's his problem and his attitude.

siegi b.
Jan. 24, 2007, 06:14 PM
kkj - you need to warm up in the same ring with CP and it will become quite apparent that he thinks the ring is only for him and screw the rest of the riders. And you do realize how crowded the warm-up at Devon gets, don't you? That's just a little example of his attitude....

kkj
Jan. 24, 2007, 07:27 PM
Ok Siegi that is a reasonable complaint. Also you are not hiding behind an alias so I don't think you are just coming on here to stir so much. If he is indeed a arena hog, that would annoy me too. There are much worse crimes of course, but at least I can understand the frustration.

YoungFilly
Jan. 24, 2007, 08:39 PM
Ok Siegi that is a reasonable complaint. Also you are not hiding behind an alias so I don't think you are just coming on here to stir so much. If he is indeed a arena hog, that would annoy me too. There are much worse crimes of course, but at least I can understand the frustration.

Arena hog, ok I can understand that too. There are definately worse things he could be doing.

Miss Dior
Jan. 24, 2007, 08:59 PM
I am sure Cesar is the one sighing from relief having to not ride Galant!!!! We are all familiar with horses that can be an occasional PIA to deal with. From what I understand this horse was not the most agreeable fellow on a good day. So his lack of relaxation may not necessasarily be rider induced. Best of luck to Cesar.

yaya
Jan. 25, 2007, 12:43 AM
Siegi has hit the nail in the head 100%
He really is his own worse enemy, and he should realize this sooner better than later, for his sake.
He comes across as being too arrogant, self-promoting and boisterous in many people's eyes.
That's the attitude Siegi was referring to. Our sport respects people that quietly toll for hours on end, who are restrained in their public persona, who refrain from self promotion and from flaunting to the world the ""connections'" they have with judges etc. He has done the opposite so far. That's his problem and his attitude.

This is from Eurodressage.com:
Despite the regrettable fact that Horses Unlimited and Olympian Dr. Cesar Parra have split ways, Parra continues to move forward. On a recent two-day trip to his native country Colombia, Cesar Parra met the Colombian prime minister Dr. Bernardo Moreno. "It was cool to talk to someone who makes decisions for what goes on in a country," Parra said. Cesar also got interviewed for two different two shows and several news programs, being one of the most prolific international athletes representing Colombia.



Do you think he went there to tell them he's changing his citizenship to USA? ;)

FEI_JR2004
Jan. 25, 2007, 12:50 AM
I am sure Cesar is the one sighing from relief having to not ride Galant!!!! We are all familiar with horses that can be an occasional PIA to deal with. From what I understand this horse was not the most agreeable fellow on a good day. So his lack of relaxation may not necessasarily be rider induced. Best of luck to Cesar.

You're right. If it were me, I would be SO happy to have lost my GP horse who took me to the Olympics and the World Equestrian Games.

Sabine
Jan. 25, 2007, 01:32 AM
You're right. If it were me, I would be SO happy to have lost my GP horse who took me to the Olympics and the World Equestrian Games.

Very true...this is kind of crazy....don't you think???

pophorse
Jan. 25, 2007, 07:49 AM
Yaya you're too funny!!
Parra's PR machine is hard at work again to prove he's a mega-star both in the US and Colombia...
Why does he feel a need for this? Why not let actions speak louder than words?
Have you seen-for example-Ulla go off and promote herself in this manner after Rusty was done for? Nope-she simply went back to quietly work on her other horses and bring them up the levels.
Where does Debbie McDonald go when she's not competing? Back home to work and teach, and you only see her mentioned when it involves her work as a trainer for the USEF.
Ditto for many other riders with class and dignity.
In my books, that's what the sport is about!
But then again maybe the sport is changing, and what really matters now is how good you are at promoting yourself, securing sponsors to buy made GP horses, making a lot of noise, etc. etc.
If that's the case, it's too bad.

kkj
Jan. 25, 2007, 08:25 AM
Pophorse I think this is where I disagree with some of you. I have never witnessed and of CP antics so I don't know if he would annoy me or not. However, I do think a person with a lot of personality is good for our sport. I am tired of the up tight boring types. If CP is great at PR and a little more arrogant and colorful, great.

pophorse
Jan. 25, 2007, 08:58 AM
kkj-you have a point that I can understand.
Not my cup of tea, but different strokes for different folks!

ise@ssl
Jan. 25, 2007, 09:06 AM
Uptight boring type? Is that the only other option - I think not. There are many GP riders who exude warmth and an obvious love of the sport and their horses. More often than not when leaving the ring they point to their horses - not themselves. Humility isn't boring.

kkj
Jan. 25, 2007, 01:28 PM
Uptight boring type? Is that the only other option - I think not. There are many GP riders who exude warmth and an obvious love of the sport and their horses. More often than not when leaving the ring they point to their horses - not themselves. Humility isn't boring.

I totally agree with this. I did not say all big riders are uptight. The sport as a whole definitely has that air however. I love dressage more than any other horse sport but the rocket science seriousness that some people approach it with irks me more than the arrogant latin man who likes to promote himself. I guess that is just me.

DownYonder
Jan. 25, 2007, 01:54 PM
I prefer riders who believe that it is all about the horse. CP falls in the category of riders who believe it is all about themselves. :no:

pophorse
Jan. 25, 2007, 02:05 PM
His website has wrong information-he was not the individual silver medallist in the 2002 Central American Games, he was fourth and not in the podium. Bernadette Pujals from Mexico was the silver medallist and Joaquin Orth, also from Mexico, was the bronce medallist. (or perhaps Orth was silver and Pujals third)
Parra was a team silver medallist at that event.

iownapaint
Jan. 25, 2007, 02:47 PM
I prefer riders who believe that it is all about the horse. CP falls in the category of riders who believe it is all about themselves. :no:

You would not say this if you had the chance to talk to him personally. He is incredibly gracious to his horses and helpers. I have never once heard him suggest that it was all about him...quite the contrrary as a matter of fact.

dressage36
Jan. 25, 2007, 02:51 PM
i completely agree with paint. but clearly most of you don't know him as well as others and you don't wish to believe anything good that's said about him. You only have ears for the flaws. everyone has flaws.

Dirigo
Jan. 25, 2007, 05:13 PM
CP is neither arrogant, nor does he think it's all about himself.
Like I said before.. he's a very warm and gracious man.
I can see how some people might be put off, by his "flair", but no one, that has ever spoken to him in person, could possibly think, that he is anything but a sincere and warm individual.
for any of you, who think he is an arrogant selfish man, I hope you have the chance to meet him someday, and I hope you will remember how false impressions can hurt your own opinion.
I am not a client of Cesars, but I know him well, and have taken occasional lessons with him, been coached by him at a few dressage shows..
So I am not here to "defend" my trainer.
I consider him a friend.
Cesar is simply a man, who deserves to be seen as who he is, instead of just talked down.
Dirigo

Sabine
Jan. 26, 2007, 02:34 AM
Pophorse I think this is where I disagree with some of you. I have never witnessed and of CP antics so I don't know if he would annoy me or not. However, I do think a person with a lot of personality is good for our sport. I am tired of the up tight boring types. If CP is great at PR and a little more arrogant and colorful, great.

I think KKJ- that if you see his resume so far- he is a Dentist-emigrated to the US- became a international dressage rider- because of his OUTSTANDING marketing and sales skills attracted a Major sponsor and instantly pushed himself in front of the pack...while still having to learn how to ride at the top level...(there are videos from him schooling in Verden etc...), always great with students, at times pompous and not 'savvy' and 'refined' enough for the peers...definitely loud and in people's faces- so not really necessarily easy to digest- especially if you don't know him...it all adds up- the ones that do know him- really seem to like him-...anyone around that knows him and doesn't like him???

kkj
Jan. 26, 2007, 08:57 AM
Yeah Sabine that is the feeling I am getting too. I think if I did know the guy, I might like him too.

Atlantis
Jan. 26, 2007, 09:37 AM
So he's a latino male with a bit of spirit and flair. I don't have a problem with that. Not everyone at a dressagecompetition has to behave like it is a funeral ;).

I could see how someone might be put off by his occassional sexualtype remarks, but I'm not put off one bit by someone with a bit of personality.

DownYonder
Jan. 26, 2007, 12:47 PM
His being a Latino male has nothing to do with my reservations about him. What puts me off is the fact that he is constantly stoking his own star-maker machine. There are many people that are true World Class riders and trainers that we hear about only on occasion - yet we are constantly bombarded with "news" about CP, as though he were one of the world's top riders. He definitely has the "art" of self-promotion down to a science. :lol:

Selleconn
Jan. 26, 2007, 02:39 PM
I do not know CP, but really would like to meet him to judge for myself since he seems to stir up so much controversy!

From what I'm reading it seems like there are certainly cultural factors involved in people's attitudes about his behavior, as well as specific problems with his alleged self-promotion, and possibly some issues with his riding.

Here's what I do know: riding at the top level either requires extremely deep pockets or the gift of selling yourself to whoever will listen. Riders who get great sponsorships are rarely the best available, and the fact that a lesser rider can get a bunch of horses to ride and sponsors to pay the ticket is simply the epitome of the horse business. The gift of the gab is everything. I don't necessarily agree with this, but I've been around long enough to know it is the way the business operates. I don't know enough about CPs riding to know whether he got more than he "deserved" as far as horses and sponsors, but if he did he wouldn't have been the first and certainly will not be the last.

One other factor in this equation may be that, as some suggested, he got one or two tough rides. I think sometimes it is very possible for a horse to have all the ability in the world, but just not want to do what we're asking. It's a frustrating type because their ability can be exciting enough to cause us to be blind to a less than perfect attitude about the work. As a rider and not an owner, it's often not possible to make decisions about the option of a career change.

One last comment about "owning the warmup". I've been the victim of innumerable riders who claim the warmup as their own personal space. It happens in all disciplines by all levels of riders. Sometimes it's ignorance to the rules, sometimes it's blatant pushiness, sometimes it's that the focus is so great on the ride that the outside world disappears.

I'm not taking either side on this issue since I can't judge someone I've never met, but I did want to point out that if any of these issues do exist with CP, he's hardly the only one in the horse business who's guilty.

petitefilly
Jan. 26, 2007, 03:08 PM
All this discussion on Cesar has prompted me to saying this, I love his attitude. He makes things happen. He tells the truth to riders. He has a business and he wants to succeed at it. Why would anyone hate these qualities? I am at a loss to why some of you fine his behavior unbecoming. I find him a breath of fresh air. Someone who will tell you that your riding is WRONG, and he looks to the truth when riding.

I have only watched him give lessons, in Florida, and at clinics, and what he has to say is admirable. Yes, you do have to work harder, and yes, you do have to get the horse round, now do it or do not ride with me. I find this so wonderful! I am tired of watching instructors who say that's good, fine, whatever, and take the money and run. Finally a person who tells things like they are instead of what you want to hear.

I have no idea what his personal problems, life, or work is like, but I enjoy watching him teach. If I had the money and desire to be a top rider I'd study with him in a minute.

Good going, Cesar, give 'em hell.

grayandbay
Jan. 26, 2007, 04:13 PM
I think,in time, that the TRUTH about why Ann/HU lefted will come out and than you all can make your opinion. And a can bet a lot of you will change your mind.

kkj
Jan. 26, 2007, 04:29 PM
grayandbay, do you know this TRUTH but don't want to "out it". Or are you just speculating. I am not asking you to tell us the dirt, but just to let us know if you know the dirt.

grayandbay
Jan. 26, 2007, 06:31 PM
I don't spread dirt but I do speak the truth, to a fault actually. And I am sure more truth will be told soon.

Miss Dior
Jan. 26, 2007, 10:25 PM
I agree. Met him/know him but not my regular trainer. I have only EVER seen him point to the horse to say job well done. As far as his incessant PR goes... he is a client of a very popular dressage web site. As are lots of others. Wise of him to hire somebody that does a good job getting the word out. That they are doing a decent job of it is something to fault him for????? WTF???? I think he is a lovely family oriented man with a passion for what he does. I have no doubt he will continue w/ his success because he brings something to the sport few others do. Fun and a good working attitude. Also good wishes for his sponsor. While she has nice horses she also benefitted greatly from his non American status. You think Galant would have been a U.S. team horse???? Perhaps he would not have been at any of those venues without a non-American rider. So Cesar & Anne both benefitted it would appear. Good luck to both.

Liz
Jan. 26, 2007, 11:23 PM
grayandbay - either say something or say nothing but this innuendo is bulls**t. Last week we were roasting Leslie. Get out the marshmellows....it's Cesar's turn.

Dirigo
Jan. 26, 2007, 11:54 PM
*hands Liz a bag of graham crackers, marshmellows, and a packet of hersheys choccy bars*

pophorse
Jan. 27, 2007, 07:41 AM
don't you guys love it when all of a sudden a new member pops up with cryptic innuendos of juicy information?
*I'll order some pizza if you guys share those crackers and chocolate!

Jan D
Jan. 27, 2007, 08:19 AM
I very rarely get on this forum. I do read thing when I am wondering about something. I stumbled on this odd dissection of a top rider and trainer who over the past six years I have come to admire and respect.

We live in a system where everything is marketed. If you fail to market yourself in any business you will soon be on the sidelines. Marketing is the American way of life. We are obsessed with fame. The saying in Hollywood, my hometown, is: "There is no such thing as bad publicity."

Our sport is full of marketing and marketers. Robert Dover is a prime example. He is a great rider. Being a great rider is only part of the picture. He has great timing for being at the right place at the right time. Just as comics and actors have to have great timing so do riders. Timing in the ring and in life is everything.
As you carry on in your debate against those people who do have the talent and the charisma to wage a marketing campaign and sell their talents please remember this. We are in a sport that requires sponsors. These top riders go through all the same problems that Michelangelo went through with the DiMedici's. Competition for attention is everything. There are a handful of top horses in this world. If you want to ride those horses you better have a great marketing plan.
Dressage is an analytical sport. We live to analyze and improve on the small things that make up a complex training pyramid. We can't live in the real world and thrive on just the small things. We are all real people living and riding in a complex society. Dr. Parra is a person with strong beliefs, a love of horses, a sense of timing, and good marketing skills. He has demonstrated these skills time and time again. I was glad to see his win on Galant at Dressage at Devon. He can add that to his many GP wins and many scores over 70 at GP.

One of the rules of the market is you have to have a product worth buying. He has proved that many times over.:cool:

J

ise@ssl
Jan. 27, 2007, 08:59 AM
Well to all you "water carriers' for CP - get this. No one is forced to LIKE someone just because they are getting scores over 70 percent. HELLO - this is a sport ....remember? We can pay our money and sit in the stands and LIKE OR DISLIKE ANY OF THE ATHLETES ON THE PLAYING FIELD. You gals who keep fanning the palms over PC's head seem to feel this sport isn't like any other sport.

And please don't tell us that this man deferred to the horse at DAD - he pointed to himself as he strutted around on foot - look at the videos. And always pre-arranging who you throw your hat to at the end of the ride seems abit ridiculous. I notice it wasn't done at the WEG's when I was there watching!

It's a free society - thank God! We can sit at a football game, baseball game, MUSICAL, PLAY, DRESSAGE SHOW and have OPINIONS on what we see and LIKE or DISLIKE any of the athletes we watch. It comes with the territory that the audience judges the performers and performances and are free to have favorites. I tend feel as grayandbay wrote - time will tell.

And JMHO - I've never felt any sport was JUST about the competition - it's about many other things. And when it comes to some websites - if it's a PAID advertisement it should say so, if it's an EDITORIAL it should say so and if it's NEWS it should say so.

K Bayo
Jan. 27, 2007, 10:23 AM
Well said. About time too.

kkj
Jan. 27, 2007, 10:49 AM
ise@ssl yeah you can like or dislike anyone you want to. Didn't we go through this same thing with LM? Personally I don't care how flamboyant or loud or obnoxious someone is. As long as they are not beating horses or cheating, I really don't care. I don't know the guy but I enjoy his antics from what I have seen. I think he exudes a warmth and energy and if and until I find out he is an abuser or is paying off judges or something, I will not have any negative feelings.

One thing I would like to note however, in other sports ie) football or basketball a person with good pr and a lot of colorful behavior is highly esteemed. Ego is appreciated there and those sports are a hell of a lot more popular. Now I know the horse has to come first and all but I don't think that means there is no room for a little self celebration. People who are capable of such can bring more fans and $$ to our sport. It makes it more entertaining and really doesn't hurt anyone. I really do think so many of us are so uptight and well plain frigid. CP keep up what you are doing. Don't worry about saying foreplay or throwing your hat. I for one enjoy it.

Then again I am someone who would welcome a dressage world where a gay man could compete in pink boots. I don't think color has to take anything away from performance. Our stuffy sport has at least progressed to allow in freestyle, now we have to let it keep evolving.

Liz
Jan. 27, 2007, 11:12 AM
Like or dislike whoever you want. My issue is with the posts that don't say anything but hint at something sinister that only the poster knows. I agree, time will tell if CP can bring along his own horses. I have no opinion about Cesar whatsoever, good luck to him and his horses. I do have an opinion about Hubertus and I would have loved to see the horse Fabio could have become in his hands. Oh well, thats the way it goes.

Jan D
Jan. 27, 2007, 07:13 PM
Life is short and art is long.

ise@ssl
Jan. 28, 2007, 09:10 AM
kkj - you say "football or basketball a person with good pr and a lot of colorful behavior is highly esteemed. Ego is appreciated there..." BY SOME FANS There are many fans of the sports (I LOVE FOOTBALL) who find the mega ego situation has ruined the sport and now turn my eyes mostly to college ball. Baseball is just about ruined and the rise of minor league teams attests to the fact that fans want the SPORT and don't want to PAY for the big heads!

I should also add that attendance AT major sporting events has actually gone DOWN as the big names/salaries/egos has increased.!!

yankeeclipper
Jan. 28, 2007, 11:09 AM
Has anyone taken a clinic with him? What did you think? I just learned he will be coming to our barn during the summer.

dressage36
Jan. 29, 2007, 12:43 PM
yankee clipper,
I cliniced with him a number of times a few years ago and enjoyed it so much that I am now in full training with him. consider giving it a try, you never know.

iownapaint
Jan. 29, 2007, 12:53 PM
Clipper,

I highly recommend riding in the clinic and definitely auditing if you don't ride. Keep in mind, riding with Cesar means being told bluntly what your problems are and working hard to fix them. There are no excuses when you ride with Cesar. Some people, like me, like trainers like that, others don't.

If you want more info PM me, I just cliniced with him a few weeks ago...