UPDATE (Page 8) ~ Stitch's Ongoing Issues ~ Back from Appts.

[LSM1212]

:D

Well, it was just walking around the arena for about 20 minutes but still, I got to ride him today! LOL :lol: It's been 7 months since anyone has been on his back.

He was a saint and oh, how I missed that feeling. He went very well. And I'm so happy. It has been WAY too long.

I loff him. :sadsmile:

[Fessy's Mom]

Yay! :D Good for you! :D I'm sure he was happy to be working with his mom again. :yes:

[goeslikestink]

arhhhhhhh well done

[LSM1212]

Yes, you should have seen the look on his face after I groomed him and then I got my tack out and put the saddle pad on him and he turned around and looked at me as if to say, "Really??? Oh, boy.... I'm so excited". :lol:

I couldn't get the bridle on fast enough for his liking. :D And he was soooooooo good. You wouldn't think he hadn't been ridden in 7 months. He just walked around like a trooper.

I know you can't do that with too many horses. :)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

SO happy for you!

[tullio]

yay! Congratulations - glad his first ride back went so well.

[ThreeHorseNight]

Woohoo!! Congrats. How nice to have a horse who lets you climb aboard with no issues after 7 months!

[ReSomething]

Yay! I hope he is pleasantly surprised by the improvement in your riding and I hope we have some nice weather so the two of you can go for a jaunt OUTSIDE. Very happy to hear this.

[LSM1212]

Yay! I hope he is pleasantly surprised by the improvement in your riding and I hope we have some nice weather so the two of you can go for a jaunt OUTSIDE. Very happy to hear this.

It's been so cold and wet.... that's a no go. :no: So we'll settle for the indoors right now.

Heck, I'm just happy he can be ridden. And he doesn't care where he's at. He hasn't been ridden in the indoor for so long that it's all new to him again anyways!

Thanks for all the congrats!

[LSM1212]

Woohoo!! Congrats. How nice to have a horse who lets you climb aboard with no issues after 7 months!

Yep.... just proves how much of a saint he is. And why I bought him in the first place!

It's funny.... I have owned him for 10 months. And he's been hurt and laid up longer than he was well! (rode him for 3 months before he got hurt and has been laid up for 7 months)

He's been a real trooper through all of this and he has definately proven himself to me as I wasn't 100% sure how he would react after being off for so long not knowing him that well to start with.

He definately has a "forever" home. I had decided on that no matter what the outcome of all of this was going to be.

[Green Acres]

Congrats!!! It must have felt great to be back on Stitch even it was only at a walk. :D
Yep, Not many that would be that quiet and just walk around after a 7 month layoff. He does sound like a keeper! Keep us updated on his progress.

[LSM1212]

Thanks... going out again today to do the same thing all over again. :)

I even walked him on the buckle. We did big circles, figure 8's and serpentines just to "spice" it up a little bit. After about 15 minutes, I dropped my stirrups. :D

He's such a good boy.

[Boston Chicken]

Great news Linda! Very happy he is the road back :D

[pony4me]

Congratulations! Glad to hear that you two can be riding buddies again. Are you limited to walking for a week or so? And how is his back end? It might be weak from lack of use. Keep us posted on your progress!

[LSM1212]

Congratulations! Glad to hear that you two can be riding buddies again. Are you limited to walking for a week or so? And how is his back end? It might be weak from lack of use. Keep us posted on your progress!

Walking only for now. Vet is coming out tomorrow (Monday) to check him and then we'll go from there.

Back end is better but definately weak.

Will know more tomorrow. :D

[Instant Karma]

Yayyy Linda:)

Glad to hear Stitchy is feeling better. These horses sure do try our sanity, don't they:lol:

Hope he continues to be on the up and up!

[LSM1212]

He was a trooper again today. And felt even better than yesterday. But I think he's bored with the walking already. LOL :D

He did see all the jumps set up in the arena (they weren't there yesterday) and he perked up real fast. :)

I had to tell him, "No, boy. Not yet." :D

We see the Vet tomorrow. Please jingle for us.

That things are good and we can keep going forward. :yes:

[sspry]

What GREAT news!!!!! I am sooo happy for you! Glad to hear Stitch is doing well.
Best of luck tomorrow!!!!!

[vxf111]

What a relief... Stitch is back! :)

[oleary157]

yay congrats on his return!

[maxiford812]

Congratulations! :) That's great news!

[LSM1212]

What a relief... Stitch is back! :)

Crossing fingers that we keep going forward. I'm still holding my breath a little. I just don't want him to "slide" back. But I'm trying not to think about it to much and just enjoy the moment.

But it makes me feel so good to see his happy face again. He has been a bit depressed lately. He sees the other horses working and having fun. And I know he misses it. And that was proof when he saw the jumps set up.

I know we are in for a long road to recovery. But I'm just glad we are back as a team..... together. :winkgrin:

[LSM1212]

What GREAT news!!!!! I am sooo happy for you! Glad to hear Stitch is doing well.
Best of luck tomorrow!!!!!

Thanks Sara. Hope to see you next year at Lakeside and the KHP..... back in full force!

[OakesBrae]

YAY!

*jingles for Stitch's continued recovery*

How wonderful that you are getting to ride him again! And what a good boy! Definitely a horse for life!

[LSM1212]

We are still chugging along. Vet came back out on Monday and re-checked him. He was sound as a tick going left on the longe line. Still off ever so slightly going right.

Vet said to start trotting him 10-15 minutes U/S.... every day. Ugh. Told him I can't do it every day but could probably squeeze in 5 times. Said that was fine. And he'd be back out again on Monday to re-check him again.

So I rode him Monday. Walked for about 15 minutes. Then trotted for about 5 minutes (changing direction a few times). He was horrible. Asked trainer if I should keep going, she said yes. Let's see if he "works" it out. Well he did... for the most part. Then walked him for 5 minutes and then trotted again for another 5. He was better then. Going really well to the left, but not so much to the right but better than when we started. We then called it a night.

Skipped yesterday (I have lessons on Tue and Thur and I don't have time to lesson and ride Stitch)..... but went out tonight to try again. He was MUCH better. Walked about 10 minutes. The picked up the trot. He was loffly to the right this time..... switched direction and just slightly off to the left. So a huge improvement from Monday. He's best if I really push him forward. So he kinda swapped from the other day (was better the bad way this time, and a little off on the good side last time).

Go figure... but he is better. I think the work is really helping. Spoke to the chiro today about it and she agreed. He needs to get "moving". He's much happier and definately more tired! :D Very tidy stall the last few days.

He gets tomorrow off because of my lesson but will ride on Fri, Sat, and Sun. Vet is coming out on Monday to re-check.

He has realized that his Mom has learned a thing or two while he's been off and he's not real sure he likes that! :lol:

But I am SOOOOO sore. I rode on Wed just for practice, then had my lesson on Thur, then hacked my trainer's jumper on Fri and then started Stitch's walk work on Sat and Sun, then rode him with trot work on Mon, then a "kick your a@@" kind of lesson last night, and then more trot work with Stitch tonight. This is really kicking my butt as it does take effort to get Stitch going forward (not a new thing, he was like that a bit before he got hurt). So this is 8 days in a row. I've never ridden this much..... EVER. :D And will be riding for sure the next 4 days. Ugh.... I see a pattern here. ;) I have a feeling I'm going to be doing this for a bit. I may need to drop one of my lessons to have a recovery day.

But I'm showing in 3 weeks. So I need to keep working the schoolie I'll be riding. And crossing fingers that Stitch is going well enough to show in December. If not, then January. :D

So keep those jingles coming our way. Will update again next week.

Thanks to all for the help, support and well wishes.

[Marcella]

Congrats! Slow but steady recovery, and when you are back showing you will know it was definitely worth it.

[LSM1212]

Thanks..... I can't wait and neither can he! He LOFFS to show. :)

[LSM1212]

shameless bump..... :D

[relocatedTXjumpr]

Yippie!!!!

[LSM1212]

Thanks Relo.... saw your post about jumping. My Dr's originally said I would never ride again after my accident. It took me awhile.... but I'm doing it.

Hang in there... and just give it time. :)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Wonderful news! Congrats.

[LSM1212]

Well, things WERE going well. He was pretty good last week while I was riding him and doing the trot work. Going very well to the right but just slightly off going left. But we worked through it. But he seemed to be getting better. Chiro saw him on Friday and watched us work before she adjusted him. Said he looked pretty good.

Vet comes out yesterday for another check up. He's still concerned about the left front even after doing all of those blocks 2 weeks ago. There is slight heat and there is an ever so slight sign of an issue there.

So Vet gives me a few options. I can take him back to the Equine Clinic and get a bone scan done and see if something comes up, and if it does, they can x-ray him, etc. He can give him a shot of Legend and see if that helps and re-check next week. Vet starts talking about possible issues (ringbone, etc). Now of course I don't know anything about this and I kinda look blankly as I'm not a vet.... I don't know the answer.

BO/BM/Trainer suggests, why don't we x-ray that area now? Here at the barn. So we did... should get the results back this afternoon and the vet is coming back out anyways to give him the shot of Legend (he didn't have any with him) so we'll see if something comes up. He also says maybe it's a chip, spur or just soft tissue damage. Who knows.

Boy, Stitch is an unlucky horse to have the hip issue and now this. Ugh.

Vet said if I wanted to, go ahead and ride that night and he'll see us tomorrow. So I did. He again went pretty well to the right..... but the left..... was horrible. Definately lame. Not just off. Crap. Maybe a good thing? Now that we have pinpointed that there is an issue there?

So BO/BM/Trainer suggests I come a little early today (before the Vet gets there) and tack Stitch up and show him how he is going U/S and maybe that will help with the diagnosis. And we can see what the x-rays show and go from there.

It's a bit heart wrenching..... just when I thought I was getting my guy "back".... he may be snatched away from me again. :cry:

We were tossing other things out last night and it may also be a "shoeing" thing. See, when I got Stitch his feet were soft and none of his feet matched. But he was sound as a tick. So over the past 10.5 months I've had him, our farrier has been slowly "fixing" him. Now I was a bit concerned about this especially when he got the first injury. Wasn't sure it was a great idea to start messing with other things until he was sound again. Plus I'm of the old school, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And yes, I'm sure if we never did anything about it, he would have issues later on down the road. But was assured it was for the best and it has been done slowly over a long period of time.

But I am just wondering if maybe it went a little too far? We have a QH mare at our barn that if you try and "fix" her and trim her just ever so slightly short, she comes up lame. For 3 months. So they leave her a little long, and she's sound. So I'm wondering if this may be the case. That the new "symptom" of the toe dragging was pointed out after the last farrier visit on Oct. 13th. And now the off LF. So maybe they went 2 steps too far?

Any suggestions? Ideas? Similar situations?

TIA

[Boston Chicken]

Vet comes out yesterday for another check up. He's still concerned about the left front even after doing all of those blocks 2 weeks ago. There is slight heat and there is an ever so slight sign of an issue there.


where exactly is the heat?

[ChocoMare]

We were tossing other things out last night and it may also be a "shoeing" thing. See, when I got Stitch his feet were soft and none of his feet matched. But he was sound as a tick. So over the past 10.5 months I've had him, our farrier has been slowly "fixing" him. Now I was a bit concerned about this especially when he got the first injury. Wasn't sure it was a great idea to start messing with other things until he was sound again. Plus I'm of the old school, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And yes, I'm sure if we never did anything about it, he would have issues later on down the road. But was assured it was for the best and it has been done slowly over a long period of time.

But I am just wondering if maybe it went a little too far? We have a QH mare at our barn that if you try and "fix" her and trim her just ever so slightly short, she comes up lame. For 3 months. So they leave her a little long, and she's sound. So I'm wondering if this may be the case. That the new "symptom" of the toe dragging was pointed out after the last farrier visit on Oct. 13th. And now the off LF. So maybe they went 2 steps too far?

Any suggestions? Ideas? Similar situations?

TIA


Hmph. Maybe take some good shots of all four hooves and post this over in Horse Care. Put the camera on the ground and take 4 shots of each hoof:

1- front on
2- left side
3- right side
4- sole

Sometimes looking at pictures that level can reveal a lot and, if it is his feet/trimming/shoeing, the experienced hoof eyeballs will find it!

JINGLES!!!

[LSM1212]

where exactly is the heat?

More in the fetlock area. And maybe ever so slightly above.

[luvmytbs]

Linda, this sucks.

Can you get the x-rays in digital format and post them?

[LSM1212]

Hmph. Maybe take some good shots of all four hooves and post this over in Horse Care. Put the camera on the ground and take 4 shots of each hoof:

1- front on
2- left side
3- right side
4- sole

Sometimes looking at pictures that level can reveal a lot and, if it is his feet/trimming/shoeing, the experienced hoof eyeballs will find it!

JINGLES!!!

Thanks.... we did take all 4 of those x-rays on the "leg in question" on the ground. And the way the x-ray slide was it was taking a picture from the ground all the way up trough the cannon bone (to just below the knee). I hope I have all my anatomy correct! :)

So we could see the whole area.

Will be cross posting.

[Appassionato]

Hmph. Maybe take some good shots of all four hooves and post this over in Horse Care. Put the camera on the ground and take 4 shots of each hoof:

1- front on
2- left side
3- right side
4- sole

Sometimes looking at pictures that level can reveal a lot and, if it is his feet/trimming/shoeing, the experienced hoof eyeballs will find it!

JINGLES!!!

Yep! Seeing my horse's shoeing job this way opened up a new world for me! Be sure to place that camera on the ground, it makes a hug diff.

[LSM1212]

Yep! Seeing my horse's shoeing job this way opened up a new world for me! Be sure to place that camera on the ground, it makes a hug diff.

I watched him the whole time. Camera was completely on the floor.

I should hopefully know more tonight.

[LSM1212]

Linda, this sucks.

Can you get the x-rays in digital format and post them?

E-mailed you back.... not sure how to do this. ;)

[Appassionato]

I watched him the whole time. Camera was completely on the floor.

I should hopefully know more tonight.

Just another thought, it really helped me when I posted Bo's shoeing here and especially at www.horseshoes.com (http://www.horseshoes.com). He was even shod recently by one of the "local experts" there.

Jingling hard for you!

[LSM1212]

Thanks App.... will check the link out.

And thank you for the jingles.... this has been a hard road. But we'll get through it.

But yesterday was one of those days that after the Vet left and I put Stitch's sheet back on, I just lost it. The tears were rolling.... plenty and fast. But it is nice to be able to cry in your ever so loving and kind horse's neck. :cry:

It's been a rough year (not just horse wise, but in general..... but won't get into that).

[Fessy's Mom]

I'm really sorry to hear about Stitch Linda. :( I'll be jingling for you both. :sadsmile:

[Peggy]

So sorry to hear this. It's a road that many of us have been down. Sounds like you did the right thing by doing radiographs yesterday. As a scientist, I'm a big fan of collecting data. Jingling and keeping fingers crossed for the results.

[Czar]

Sorry you have to go through this.

Is it his hind or front? I'm not sure of the details of his injury - you mentioned something about his hip? Any swelling? How long has he been off?

I went through a VERY difficult lameness with my first horse, an appendix QH as well. He was lame for nearly a year and a half and there were days where I too cried on his neck in frustration. He had slipped at a horseshow and was never the same. We think he pulled all of his muscles and they healed wrong - but we'll never know for sure.

His lameness was hind end and I did everything short of nuclear medicine - I had many different opinions, some said it was in his back, his stifles, his feet etc...I finally decided just to ride him - and for some strange reason, he got better.

He was never 100% but he became sound enough to show and never acted like he was in pain.

Keep your chin up - just when it seems impossible that he will never be better - he might just come through.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Oh Linda, so, so sorry. Hugs to you, and hoping the vets come back with a great prognosis.

[Boston Chicken]

Hope you get some good news tonight. I guess I would be a lot less inclined to think shoeing if there is heat in the area you mentioned and only in one leg.

Good luck! :yes:

[vxf111]

Oh no... jingling that this is something small, minor, and eminently fixable (like an abscess that will pop and it'll all be over with).

[LSM1212]

Okay, here's the update. Vet came out and I worked Stitch for him so he could see how he was off U/S. Though he was better today than last night. He was still off going left. And just a little going right.

X-rays came in. It looks like bone spurs (calcium deposits) on either side of the area right above his heel??? Sorry, not sure what that part is called. And then another one closer to the fetlock. So it looks like bone spurs and possible arthritis. He's not 100% sure this is the reason he is off on his right front. But it could be. Time will tell.

So we gave him a shot of Legend and we'll see what happens. He'll be back on Monday to re-check him again. He said go ahead and keep working him until then.... and if he's really off, just stop. We may do blocks again. Because Stitch is actually pretty pain tolerant. So when we did them the first time he had been off for 7 months and was probably just happy to be doing something again. But now that he's been back in work and it's putting more pressure on that area, it's now "screaming" out.

He also suggested that it might be a good idea to change his angle a bit at his next shoeing (have him be lifted more "up" from behind) to relieve that pressure. So we kept the x-rays so when the farrier comes out in 2 weeks she can look at them and see. She specializes in Hunter/Jumpers so will see what she thinks.

And once we get that fixed we can go back to the hind end issue. Hopefully if all the stars are aligned, maybe this will fix that issue too. :) But we shall see.

Does anyone have any information on these kind of issues? Treatment, prognosis, etc.?

TIA

[LSM1212]

Sorry you have to go through this.

Is it his hind or front? I'm not sure of the details of his injury - you mentioned something about his hip? Any swelling? How long has he been off?

I went through a VERY difficult lameness with my first horse, an appendix QH as well. He was lame for nearly a year and a half and there were days where I too cried on his neck in frustration. He had slipped at a horseshow and was never the same. We think he pulled all of his muscles and they healed wrong - but we'll never know for sure.

His lameness was hind end and I did everything short of nuclear medicine - I had many different opinions, some said it was in his back, his stifles, his feet etc...I finally decided just to ride him - and for some strange reason, he got better.

He was never 100% but he became sound enough to show and never acted like he was in pain.

Keep your chin up - just when it seems impossible that he will never be better - he might just come through.

The current issue is Left Front... the original injury was Left Hind (dropped hip). Swelling happened after the Hip Injury back in March but went away prett quickly. He's been off work since then. Just started him back about 1.5 weeks ago. But he is also still showing a slight issue with the Left Hind but is better since we injected his stifle. Now the Left Front is more of the issue.

The original injury happened when he went down and back in the crossties.

[Tha Ridge]

Were these not found in the PPE or are they a recent development?

[LSM1212]

Recent development. Other X-Rays were clean.

[LSM1212]

Morning bump for those that were interested.

[prudence]

How is Stitch doing? Hope he's doing ok and that the Legend helped.

[vxf111]

Here's hoping the Legend helped. How is Stitch?

[LSM1212]

He's okay... it seems the Legend did help the original injury (LH) as he is going better on that leg. But now his RH is "off" and he is definately dragging on that side. And the LF (per the x-rays). These are the new issues.

We are thinking compensation. First he hurt the LH, so he puts more pressure/weight on RH. LH gets better but now LF is issue since putting extra weight on RH, he has now shifted it to the LF. Now RH is flaring up.

So it's one of those "he needs to go through the cycle" type of thing.

So I have a one legged horse! :D LOL

So we injected the Right Stifle last night (since it seemed to work well on the other side last time). Hopefully that will help him stop dragging on that side and he won't feel the need to put extra weight/pressure to compensate on his LF. He is now on Isoxsuprine for the LF also. And hopefully these meds will clear that issue up.

We'll see. Hopefully we can get the RH worked out and go from there with the LF.

To me, it's a puzzle. And we are fixing one thing at a time. :D

Vet will be back the Friday after T-Day. So will know more then. We are still leaving the option open of taking him back to Rood and Riddle. But I really don't want to do that if I can avoid it. :D

Farrier is coming out the Wed before T-Day. So will see what she says/thinks.

Thanks for the jingles. Keep them coming!

[Gunnar]

Linda, I have been away and just saw this thread. I am sorry that Stitch is having setbacks! How old is he anyway? All that standing around is hard on a horse and the older they are the harder it is! I will keep jingling for you and your boy!

You know I understand more than most! I am happy to report that Bodie is even cantering now! They even took him out on the XC course!:eek: (not jumping but out and about!) I have only ridden him once and this weekend I plan on getting on him again. I agree with your not enough time deal. I have two horses now and when I make it to the barn I only have time to ride one!:sadsmile: But I am fortunate to have a great barn where they take such good care of my heese!

Jingling for Stitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sadsmile:

[Czar]

His injury and how it is presenting sounds very, very similar to what happened to Czar.

Like I said, we think it was soft tissue since there was no swelling - he went down as well. At least you know what the original injury was since there was swelling and an obvious affected area - we had to guess.

We did have another Appendix QH that came to us with a hip problem...he had probably injured himself somewhere along the line and his previous owner had left him late (we got him in the fall of his 4 yr old year) so he hadn't really done anything. Basically, he was sound when we bought him and the problem did not present until we started working him. I've heard it referred to as an irregular gait - the horse is not actually in pain, he just has an awkward way of going as one hip is lower than the other. The problem is, is that eventually that will cause pain much like a person with a shorter leg gets back aches when they've done a lot of walking.

We kept that horse in chiropractic treatments and did joint injections and he went on to show as a 3ft hunter (though never in the hacks)....he always needed that special treatment however and we were very careful to give him time off if he seemed like he needed it.

Unfortunately, all you can do is wait and muddle through it one step at a time. His new injuries are mostly like from compensating as you mentioned, same thing happened to Czar - just when we got one thing "fixed", something else would go wrong but I think it's very encouraging to know what happened in the first place. That's half the battle.

Try not to get too down - from what you have described I really think it will work itself out in time - it's definitely not a hopeless situation...just frustrating :no:

[LSM1212]

Linda, I have been away and just saw this thread. I am sorry that Stitch is having setbacks! How old is he anyway? All that standing around is hard on a horse and the older they are the harder it is! I will keep jingling for you and your boy!

He's only 7. :) But I'm sure the sitting around still didn't help.

[LSM1212]

Unfortunately, all you can do is wait and muddle through it one step at a time. His new injuries are mostly like from compensating as you mentioned, same thing happened to Czar - just when we got one thing "fixed", something else would go wrong but I think it's very encouraging to know what happened in the first place. That's half the battle.

Try not to get too down - from what you have described I really think it will work itself out in time - it's definitely not a hopeless situation...just frustrating :no:

Thanks Czar... that is what we are figuring. We are just waiting to see how he does with each new "treatment" and are just muddling on along. I'm sure it will work itself out. Just one step at a time.

[Madison]

Unfortunately, these lamenesses can be and often are multi-layered, often from compensating as you suspect this is. You just have to be patient and think of it like peeling an onion - one layer at a time! After we got my mare's foot injury squared away, we found she had compensatory tendonitis in the shoulders - I was very distressed to still have an issue, and my vet wisely pointed out that but for the long road I had been on, I would not have thought the tendonitis was a big deal. One round of shoulder injections was all it took, and we are back on track so far. So, as hard as it is, all you can do is be patient, and take it one layer at a time. Good luck!

[LSM1212]

Unfortunately, these lamenesses can be and often are multi-layered, often from compensating as you suspect this is. You just have to be patient and think of it like peeling an onion - one layer at a time! After we got my mare's foot injury squared away, we found she had compensatory tendonitis in the shoulders - I was very distressed to still have an issue, and my vet wisely pointed out that but for the long road I had been on, I would not have thought the tendonitis was a big deal. One round of shoulder injections was all it took, and we are back on track so far. So, as hard as it is, all you can do is be patient, and take it one layer at a time. Good luck!

Oooo... love your quote. Makes me think of "Shrek". You know, peeling back those onion layers!

But that's exactly what we are doing. I knew it would "fantasyland" to think he would come back w/ no other issues. Heck, I certainly didn't when I was seriously hurt.

But it still is frustrating and heartbreaking at times. But he's mine. And I'm his. I loff him and he loffs me. We'll get through it.

Even the Vet (who is very reserved and doesn't say much) said he was a nice fellow. Good citizen and definately a keeper! :D

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I feel your pain...and jingling for the two of you.

[LSM1212]

The vet came out again today to do a re-check. Stitch is has been doing well this past week. Not 100% but much better after our little back slide.

It seems the injection in the right stifle did help. The farrier was out on Tue. 11/21. She took a look at the x-rays and it was decided to try the Natural Balance shoes on him.

I rode him on Wed. 11/22 and it is the best he's been since before he got hurt. The back end was soooooo much better. Just ever so slightly off in the front left still. But he must have felt good...... at least enough to really spook for the first time ever since I bought him. We were on the rail doing our trot work and then all of a sudden, we ended up in the middle of the ring (ie.... he ran sideways). I was still on and had both stirrups but wasn't sure how we got there (I'm sure the dumbfounded look on my face was priceless)! He was blowing and a snorting. LOL To make a long story short, it was a new cart outside of the arena next to the fence. It's bright yellow. :D

But I was so thrilled with myself... as I didn't panic and made him go past it (huffing and a puffing) at the trot (small fights and all) until he finally accepted it. I couldn't have done that 6 months ago. Go Linda. :D

Vet came out today and said he looks alot better and is really happy about the new shoes. He's still not 100% but pretty close.

So we are back to work. :D He said to go ahead and get him back going during the winter... that he just probably needs to work out the rest of the kinks and give time for the benefit of the shoes to really "kick in". And if any other things creep up, to call him.

So, thanks again for all of the support. But keep the jingling up that we don't have another set back. I'm so happy.... I can't wait to start cantering him again. I LOFF his canter. And he loves to canter. We of course will wait until he's going well on the flat before re-introducing jumping. Though what I do isn't really considered jumping..... 2'. Stitch used to just canter over them!

:lol:

[LSM1212]

Here are some pictures my hubby took after the Vet came. :) Doesn't he look happy? :D

[onthebit]

I'm glad you got the ok to get him back in shape over the winter. There is nothing more frustrating than the on again/off again type of rehabs.

[LSM1212]

Thanks onthebit..... yes, it's been frustrating but all I really wanted was for Stitch to feel better. :D It made my heart ache to see him unhappy.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

glad things are looking up!

[LSM1212]

Thanks DG. :)

[OakesBrae]

I'm still jingling for you Linda, I can't wait for the update that says that Stitch is ready to jump again :)

[Noctis]

Yay for Stitch! And YOU Linda :D

[LSM1212]

Okay, this yo-yo thing is driving me crazy. Another back slide. The last 2 times I've ridden Stitch it has been awful.

I have a call into the Lameness Specialist in Lexington to make an appointment for a re-check and to go ahead and get a Nuclear Scintigraphy test done. Ugh. If he were off in one area only, then I think we could stick it out. But it keeps "floating around". One day he's okay, then the next time he's off, then okay, then off again but in a different way.

I just need to find out what's going on. I'm really trying not to put the cart in front of the horse, but I need to know exactly what we are dealing with here. It is so frustrating.

But I've been afraid to do this... I'm really worried what the answers will be. I know that may sound silly, but of course I'm dreading the worse.

So jingles for us please... for us to get through this okay.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

jingling. And hugs.

[Lion1024]

Lots of jingles.

[Patch]

LSM1212 Jingles and hugs from me too!! I haven't often posted in response to your threads but as a re-rider myself I have followed your online journey. Your guy Stitch seems like such a doll and I was so happy for you when you found him, I really do hope this all works out for you! :yes:

I'm no expert at re-hab really, so I may be way off base, as I don't know all of what you have done in your back to work regime with Stitch. What I'm wondering is....if you may be trying to bring him back to work too quickly seeing as he was off for such a long time with his injury.

Anyway... here is a link to an article I found helpful when I was bringing an older mare back from a bad bout with cellulitus that had her off for 6 months. For her I used the 60 day back to work schedule and it seemed to go quite smoothly.

http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/client_lib.html

Good luck and jingles!!

[moonriverfarm]

So glad your boy is feeling better. I know how hard it is to get knocked down...I've paid my dues there, and I've become a pretty good nursemaid!
Keep working towards getting him 100%...you can do it!

[Gunnar]

Linda, I will jingle for your Stitch today! I am the rehab queen and will be there with you in spirit. Give him hugs and kisses from us all!

We await the update and of course are sending all the positive vibes we can!:sadsmile:

[findeight]

I think getting some mre diagnostic work from a lameness specialist is an excellent idea.
Also think you may be not realizing just how long it takes to rehab one that's been off for 6 months like yours has. It literally takes as long to get them back as they were off for, frequently they spend 2 or 3 weeks just walking then another month with some trot doing straight sides ONLY, no corners. You want to talk boring...try doing 20 minutes of walk and then 16 straight sides each way...and that has to be done 5 times a week...then you can go around the corners at the trot. then you add the straight side canters in.
Not at all uncommon to encounter setbacks that set you back weeks at a time during a rehab like this and remember, that dropped hip has changed all the angles and balance in his back end.

I just spent this weekend working at a show with a longtime friend who was judging. Top adult in both Hunter and Jumper as well as Eq rider with an up and coming daughter. She had shipped a horse into the barn just back from a lease and I thought of this post because this one was tried, vetted and purchased in Europe and was diagnosed less then a month after arrival with a dropped hip. I recognized the horse and asked how long the dropped hip laid her up and what she was now doing.

Good news bad news answer.
It took over a year with alot of setbacks. The horse has been successful as a Junior Hunter, moves a little odd behind so no hack winner, but very capable at top levels.

There is hope but you have a ways to go and need to formulate a rehab program for him with the help of your vets.

Good thing it is winter because that will allow for all that walking and straight side work ahead so he ought to be ready to go outside with the summer heat.

[Boston Chicken]

Hi Linda - this can be very normal. Some days I get on Faune and he feels like he has gone backwards...other days, he is very, very strong and even. If I feel him going backwards, we back off and go back to walking and just stretching. I play it by ear. They feel different when they've been out of work for so long (6 months almost for us and he is weak).

Try not to worry too much :sadsmile:

One last thing to check, I don't know if you ever pulled blood for Lyme or if you even get that where you are - but it can present a lot like what you are describing (shifting lameness, general stiffness, etc.).

Keep at it! I keep telling myself the same thing too....I know it's hard.

[War Admiral]

Many jingles for both of you. Please keep us updated!!

[Czar]

So sorry to hear that LSM.

It's so strange that it is in the front end and still undiscernable. Most front end lamenesses are more obvious - I assume you've x-rayed his feet for navicular (being that he is a QH)?

I do hope it works out for you - a word of caution about nuclear medicine...depending on how old the injury is, the scintigraphy is not always effective. I was going to do that with my QH I mentioned earlier but my vet told me that there was a high chance that it would not tell me anything as he had already been off for nearly a year.

Good luck and keep us posted .

[LSM1212]

Okay, we have made the appointment. He is going back to Rood and Riddle in Lexington, KY on Tue. 12/12 at 10am. Lameness Specialist will take another look at him and see what we can do. We have the Nuclear Scintigraphy as a +/-. As in we will add that if necessary. He may have some other ideas or tests we can do first that may give us some answers.

If we do the NS test, he needs to stay there. :no: They will do it on Wed. 12/13 and then he could possibly come home on Thur. 12/14, but definately on Fri. 12/15. Because he will "radioactive". :eek: And we need to wait until the "dye" is out of his system.

Thank you all for your support and understanding. I have been crying all morning. I'm just drained. :cry: I just want him better and for us to figure out why he is doing this. It's the "unknown" that is killing me. And that he keeps "shifting" around.

This sucks. I am really trying to stay positive. But it's really hard. I know, I know.... Linda stop doing the "pity party" thing. :sadsmile:

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Hugs. This is always a very emotionally draining time.

[Patch]

[/quote]This sucks. I am really trying to stay positive. But it's really hard. I know, I know.... Linda stop doing the "pity party" thing. :sadsmile:[/quote]

Oh goodness! Its okay to feel badly! Hugs and jingles!! Its not a pity party :no:. We all go through rough times our beasties this time we're here for you.

Jingles.

[onthebit]

I think R & R is a wonderful place, but on 2 separate occasions they completely missed the boat on one of my horses. It is a long story but her problems were in her feet and they had been x-rayed within an inch of her life on TWO different trips to R&R. I think vets and farriers both get used to seeing so many "standard" problems with feet they fail to look hard enough at that area.

Jingling for you and Stitch and hope you don't go on the rollercoaster ride that I did. If only I could have all of that $$$$$$$ back that I spent there!

[LSM1212]

I think R & R is a wonderful place, but on 2 separate occasions they completely missed the boat on one of my horses. It is a long story but her problems were in her feet and they had been x-rayed within an inch of her life on TWO different trips to R&R. I think vets and farriers both get used to seeing so many "standard" problems with feet they fail to look hard enough at that area.

Jingling for you and Stitch and hope you don't go on the rollercoaster ride that I did. If only I could have all of that $$$$$$$ back that I spent there!

Will keep that in mind. They were really good the first time we took him in. So hoping this doesn't happen to us. Don't worry, I will be questioning and pushing as needed. And yes, we won't even "go there" on how much I've spent so far since he was initially hurt. :eek:

[Skip's Rider]

I know of two horses like yours LSM. They would be lame, not lame, lame, not lame or just NQR. And it was never really, really bad. After many workups locally, the owners ow one horse took him to Cornell for a lameness workup. They did more x-rays and nuclear scintigraphy. No diagnosis, and horse was sent home. They finally took the horse to VA Tech Marion DuPont equine hospital. Using ultrasound, they found a severely inflammed ligament in the hoof. I don't remember which one. The other horse was also diagnosed at VA Tech with a different hoof ligament injury either by MRI or ultrasound.

I hope you find answers to your horse's lameness issues. Good luck and jingles for you and your horse.

[Gunnar]

Okay, we have made the appointment. He is going back to Rood and Riddle in Lexington, KY on Tue. 12/12 at 10am. Lameness Specialist will take another look at him and see what we can do. We have the Nuclear Scintigraphy as a +/-. As in we will add that if necessary. He may have some other ideas or tests we can do first that may give us some answers.

If we do the NS test, he needs to stay there. :no: They will do it on Wed. 12/13 and then he could possibly come home on Thur. 12/14, but definately on Fri. 12/15. Because he will "radioactive". :eek: And we need to wait until the "dye" is out of his system.

Thank you all for your support and understanding. I have been crying all morning. I'm just drained. :cry: I just want him better and for us to figure out why he is doing this. It's the "unknown" that is killing me. And that he keeps "shifting" around.

This sucks. I am really trying to stay positive. But it's really hard. I know, I know.... Linda stop doing the "pity party" thing. :sadsmile:


Go ahead and cry. That is what a pity party is for! I cry everyday about my horses!:sadsmile: Rosie has been lame now for 10 months now and you know the Bodie story. Lucky for me Bodie is strong and getting stronger! But he is still limited to wtc in the indoor ring. Mr. Gunnar has ridden him outside but he is very brave.:eek: :lol:

I am taking both of them to the clinic on the 12th so I will think of you while I try to solve Rosie's stifle problem. Rosie will get EPSM biopsy and we will bring a saddle to ride her for the vet. she is only lame with a rider so it makes it hard. With Rosie I am at a loss as she gets better and now she is worse. If only they could talk!

Bodie is just in for 60 day recheck but his back is so iffy I want them to give me some advice about that. Hopefully just needs his hocks done!:sadsmile: He is sound as a dime, which is the only good news I have!

OK Linda did I distract you? I am trying to get your mind off that Stitch boy! If you worry about my heese I will worry about your horse! How does that sound?

Keep your chin up and I will too!:sadsmile:

Jingling for Linda and Stitch from Steph, Bodie and Rosie, full fledge members of the rehab club!:sadsmile:

[findeight]

Don't diss Rood and Riddle on something that didn't work out. Horses cannot talk and help with their diagnostics and there is alot of guess work involved.
I bet any vet clinic anywhere has cases that didn't work out because of varying reasons. It is NOT because they skimped, were ignorant or were trying to cheat the owner. It's because they are treating livestock that can't tell us what is hurting or help in either diagnostic tests or treatment/rehab. Hagyard Magee is in the same boat as are New Bolton, Tufts and all the others.

Tom Riddle is one of the finest horsemen I have met and shared a libation with...and that includes Jimmy Williams and Charlie Wittingham among others and that is one fine, state of the art vet clinic with caring people that want the best...if they can figure out what that is because it's a horse being treated that can't help, talk or say what hurts and when. Keep that in mind.

[LSM1212]

Thanks... I just did, again. :sadsmile: Your post started the tears flowing. It's amazing how this board can be. I have gotten more support and love from you guys than I do from the people who actually live around me in my life. My hubby tries... but just doesn't know what to say except, "it will be alright". And to me, that's more of a dismissal of my feelings. But he tries. :sadsmile: He doesn't think about things that he can't control.... and until it impacts him directly, he doesn't bother to think about it. He's more reactive, I'm more proactive. My trainer does feel for me, but has some of the same mentality .... but I guess unless you are going through this, you really have no idea.

It's very scary that we are taking our heese to the clinic on the same day. I will be thinking of you and your babies as we drive to the clinic. I feel for you. Stitch isn't even sound w/o a rider (except at the walk). :cry: And it's that on again/off again that is breaking my heart.

And part of it is fear. If for some reason, he will never be sound again, I will have some very tough decisions to make. Ones that I may not want to make.

I'm the type of person that always thinks of a "plan B". Even if I never need to use it. It's best for me to sometimes think the worse, and then be pleasantly surprised if things turn out much better than originally thought than to talk myself into the "it will be okay" and then the worse may end up happening and then I end up crashing because of it. I'm a realist. Not a dreamer. That's just me. It's what I have found out through the years that works for me.

So please bear with me... I might be "over-exaggerating" but it's how I process things.


Go ahead and cry. That is what a pity party is for! I cry everyday about my horses!:sadsmile: Rosie has been lame now for 10 months now and you know the Bodie story. Lucky for me Bodie is strong and getting stronger! But he is still limited to wtc in the indoor ring. Mr. Gunnar has ridden him outside but he is very brave.:eek: :lol:

I am taking both of them to the clinic on the 12th so I will think of you while I try to solve Rosie's stifle problem. Rosie will get EPSM biopsy and we will bring a saddle to ride her for the vet. she is only lame with a rider so it makes it hard. With Rosie I am at a loss as she gets better and now she is worse. If only they could talk!

Bodie is just in for 60 day recheck but his back is so iffy I want them to give me some advice about that. Hopefully just needs his hocks done!:sadsmile: He is sound as a dime, which is the only good news I have!

OK Linda did I distract you? I am trying to get your mind off that Stitch boy! If you worry about my heese I will worry about your horse! How does that sound?

Keep your chin up and I will too!:sadsmile:

Jingling for Linda and Stitch from Steph, Bodie and Rosie, full fledge members of the rehab club!:sadsmile:

[McVillesMom]

I've been following along, but haven't posted until now. I'm so sorry that you're going through this! Hopefully they will find something that is fixable with a little more time.

If you need anything...I'm only an hour and a half from Rood and Riddle, and I'm off most of next week...let me know if I can do anything to help, even if it's just moral support!

[LSM1212]

I've been following along, but haven't posted until now. I'm so sorry that you're going through this! Hopefully they will find something that is fixable with a little more time.

If you need anything...I'm only an hour and a half from Rood and Riddle, and I'm off most of next week...let me know if I can do anything to help, even if it's just moral support!

Thanks Nancy. That is very sweet to say. :sadsmile:

[vxf111]

Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. All I have to say is that I'm here for you Linda. Jingling for you and Stitch.

[Dalfan]

Don't discount an abcess. The horse I leased had a heck of a time with an abcess (2 month back and forth trying to diagnose the thing). Lame, then not, then lame. Back and forth. heat. no heat. poultice. nothing coming out. Got better. Then lame again. Xrays taken, nothing there. FInally, farrier dug it out. All in all, took about 2 months to resolve the issue. Good luck

[Boston Chicken]

Gunnar said it well...we are all thinking of you and Stitch.

Remember, most of us have been there - and well, many of us are going through it with you :sadsmile: Back when Faune got hurt in June, I knew it was going to be a very tough road back...and it has been so far. But we keep plugging away until we know the outcome. It's too soon to tell - don't give up! As for how you "process things," I do the same thing...and was amazed when they went my way for once. Of course, as with you, we have a long way to go (trotting 15 minutes now). We take it very slowly - one day at a time.

Hugs to you and your Stitch,
Gillian and Faune, the big French horse

[sspry]

Oh Linda- I am so sorry. I wish there was something I could say or do. Here I was wondering if you were able to show this past weekend then I get on to check COTH and see this. :(
I will keep you and Stitch in my thoughts...here's to R&R figuring out what is going on!
If you ever just want to go get a cup of coffee or something and vent, cry, or whatever let me know. I am a good listener!

[Flipper K.]

Lame-O Louie and I will be thinking of you guys as we do our "quality time" handwalking!

Hang in there ...

:winkgrin:

-- Flip

[LSM1212]

Thanks again everyone. I don't know why I'm so emotional about this. Frustration? Anger? Should of, could have thing? Heartache?

:confused:

Note to SSpry: Thanks for the "coffee" offer. I might take you up on that. And no, no shows for us. Not since March. And I haven't even shown one of the schoolies since July. I just don't have the heart to do it anymore w/o Stitch.

I had a good long cry last night... I do feel a little better today. :sadsmile:

[MissBri]

AH Linda, you poor girl.
As many have said, you are in fine company - it's one of the trials of horseownership - some have more than their fair share of vet visits and clinics.

Many prayers and hugs for you and Stitch....


and also spreading my arms out in a big big hug to all the others with ailing hooved partners.......;)

[Gunnar]

Linda, do not worry about your method of dealing with matters of the horse! I think the problem lies in the joy we get from riding our horses and when we cannot we are out of sorts. As the months go by we lose our resolve and are unable to control our emotions anymore.

It is so hard when the real world doesn't understand. Just now I was telling co worker I was sore still from riding Bodie on Saturday.:eek: :lol: :sadsmile: She says how come you have not been riding? and my answer of course was the same, because my horses are lame! No matter how many times I tell them they seem to forget. Same co worker says it is so nice that you have an interest that is a great form of exercise, without the feeling of exercise! Once again I stated that for the last 3 years I have done little riding. They just do not understand!:sadsmile:

Mr. Gunnar just states that's horses for you and goes from there. His passion does not run deep but he trys to understand!:sadsmile: My friends on the COTH are my true salvation! Without you guys I may fade away! You cheer me up and help me gather strength when times are tough.

Miss Perfect Pony and I cry on each others shoulders often, as her new horse is a colicer and like you Linda she is at the end of her rope. While I feel for her it is nice to have a friend who understands!:sadsmile:

Oh how I ramble on but I hope you are feeling better today! There is a ray of sunshine out there for you and Stitch, I just know it!

Take care and lean on us when you can!:sadsmile: Here is hoping that 2007 is a better year!:sadsmile:

PS: Gillian, glad to hear the big french boy is on the mend! Hugs and kisses to you both from me and my gang!

[Calvincrowe]

LSM- I'm so sorry Stitch is yo-yo-ing on you. My Calvin is a "stay at home" retiree due to just such a mystery lameness. The best in the business could only come up with a "could be" diagnosis of bowed deep digital flexor tendon in his foot! No way of knowing except with an MRI (and this was 4 years ago..only one was 6 hours away) and I just didn't have the money to spend on a firm diagnosis that would still leave him just as lame as before.

I hope that R and R come up with a good diagnosis and a plan for recovery. As I've learned from my own back injury, it takes a LONG time to fully regain your former physical skills.

Jingles from a middle school in WA are coming your way!

[LSM1212]

Thanks guys.... will keep you posted.

I did go out last night and check on him. It's been so cold here (low of 17) that he is now sporting his brand new heavy weight blanket. He was out in his paddock and trotted over to say hi... and was moving pretty good. And I have to admit, he looks smashing in his new blanket.... :D

He got the token treats and scritches when he came inside which he seemed to enjoy. And of course, the usual cry into his neck from his mommy.

I know part of his issues right now is the weather. It was 75 degrees only a couple of days ago. Yesterday's high was 34. Makes me kinda "gloomy" too.

Hugs and Kisses to all.

[Boston Chicken]

Hi Steph :D Thanks for the hugs for me and Faunelet :lol: He is trucking along...but I am so darn busy these days that I hardly have time to check in here anymore :no: I hope to catch back up after the holidays.

Love,
Big French Horse and his mom ;)

[Gunnar]

Hi Steph :D Thanks for the hugs for me and Faunelet :lol: He is trucking along...but I am so darn busy these days that I hardly have time to check in here anymore :no: I hope to catch back up after the holidays.

Love,
Big French Horse and his mom ;)

Glad to hear Faun is getting better. I hope the progress continues! Do not be to busy as it is hard on the body and the soul!:sadsmile:

Linda, how are you today? Is your chin up?:sadsmile:

[LSM1212]

Glad to hear Faun is getting better. I hope the progress continues! Do not be to busy as it is hard on the body and the soul!:sadsmile:

Linda, how are you today? Is your chin up?:sadsmile:

A little better... last night was good.

See my new thread:

http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=74534

:sadsmile:

So I guess there is hope. At least I hope there is hope. :yes:

[LSM1212]

Appointment is tomorrow. And I'm a little scared. I want to know, but I don't want to know.

If it's something small or fixable, then I want to know.

If not, I don't. :sadsmile:

So wish us luck and keep those jingles coming our way. We need them.

[moonriverfarm]

Jingling madly from Alabama, from someone who always has one laid-up or limping. Hang in there. He's yours no matter what, and believe me, some horses are odds-beaters!

[OakesBrae]

*jingling for Stitch*

Hang in there, hopefully this means you get all the nasty vet stuff out of the way at the beginning of your relationship!

[onthebit]

I hope you find out something definitive. Knowing is better than not knowing as you can at least make decisions on good information.

[Peggy]

Appointment is tomorrow. And I'm a little scared. I want to know, but I don't want to know.

If it's something small or fixable, then I want to know.

If not, I don't. :sadsmile:

So wish us luck and keep those jingles coming our way. We need them.\Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt. Will be thinking of you tomorrow.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

JINGLING.

[Sebastian]

Fingers and toes crossed for "good" news...

Seb :)

[411]

You're probably at R&R now. I hope the Dr.s are able to figure out what's going on. There is nothing worse than the unknown, so I really hope you get some answers today. I am also a worst case scenario person. Drives my husband and friends crazy but keeps me sane. ;)

Any of us who have been through lameness problems totally understand what you are going through. Both of my horses have had ligament injuries and it's heartbreaking to go through. My husband says my happiness revolves around the state of soundness of my horses, and I have to say he's right. :sadsmile: It's crushing when they don't get better, or suddenly start taking bad steps and you don't know why. Many people wouldn't go to the lengths you are to figure out what's up, and no matter what the outcome is, you'e doing everything you can for him, and I'm sure he knows it.

Jingling and praying for good news for everyone who has vet appts today!

[LSM1212]

We're back.... :) It went good and maybe a little bad. ;)

We did a full exam. 6 blocks, 10 digital x-rays and 1 injection later. ;)

Stitch of course was an absolute doll. Though we were there for 6 hours.

We did a full EPM test. He did well. Did nerve blocks on the LF, LH, RH (in that order) along w/ flexion tests after the blocks. And after all 6 of them he was finally sound. :winkgrin: Or at least 95% there. So we took 10 digital x-rays of LF, LH and RH hoof and above area.

Bones look good, no navicular, a small bone spur on his coffin bone but only the LF. The hind pics looked great... good angles and such. He is still dragging his toes but at least towards the end he was moving evenly. Not sure if that's an issue, or lack of work or just plain laziness per the vet.

The old injury looks good (the dropped hip).

I won't type out the full extent of everything but the diagnosis is... put hind shoes on him as he is trying to break over on his own back there. We did inject the coffin joint in the LF. Since there was a spur there and some ever so slight bowing (he is club footed on that one). We are hoping if we can get him more comfortable on the hind end, he will stop putting his weight on the LF and it will work itself out. We can only hope.

We haven't ruled out EPM 100% yet. Will see how he does with this. The vet said if it was EPM it would be the VERY early stage.

We decided not to do the scintigraphy. Since we were able to pinpoint the issues better than we thought orginally (if the nerve blocks hadn't worked at all, then we would have done it).

So it looks like we might be dealing with more of a "foot issue". I got copies of the necessary x-rays for the farrier for his back and LF.

She'll be back in about 2 weeks. So we'll put the hind shoes on then, plus the injection will take 10-14 days to "take" anyways. After that is done, he said to try him out (light work ~ w/t) and see how he goes.

Then we'll go from there. And still leave the scintigraphy test as an option in the future.

Thank you everyone for your support, jingles, etc. Keep them coming.

But I have to say, I was such a proud Mom. He was sooooo good. With all the commotion going on, the poking and proding, scary machines and such, he was as cool as a cucumber. And the last place he had been was this facility back in April. :D The techs feel in love with him and were feeding him peppermint treats. :lol: He makes you fall in love with him. :sadsmile:

Will keep everyone posted.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Well, this sounds very very hopeful to me!!!

[LSM1212]

Well, this sounds very very hopeful to me!!!

Me too... at least we now have a direction to go!

[McVillesMom]

I'm glad to hear things went well! It's good to know that the injury has healed. I'm sure it's something of a relief to have somewhere to start, at least. Though I know you'll still be worrying about him until he's back to 100%--I would be too! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things continue to go well and that the hind shoes do the trick. ;)

[onthebit]

Hopefully things will look up now - and stay that way. :)

[desilu]

It sounds like things went great. You actually found something that may be the culprit and ruled out bad things. If something as simple as shoeing behind and getting him back in shape are the cure.......it was money well spent! I am SO glad for you that you may have your answer and a solution. The not knowing is sometimes the worst. Good luck with the shoes and the get back in shape program. Don't you love it when your kids do you proud?

[Appassionato]

Hey LSM, I highly advise you to go to www.horseshoes.com (http://www.horseshoes.com) as well as posting your x-rays and pics of horse's feets. Maybe some folks can help!

Still jingling this all gets resolved soon, and glad for your news!

[LSM1212]

Thanks all. I really do hope this is the issue.

But I secretly will feel like putting a bullet in my head if all it takes is putting shoes on the back. :lol: What could have been fixed for maybe an extra $50 each farrier visit.... instead of the $4,000 I've spent!

[LSM1212]

It sounds like things went great. You actually found something that may be the culprit and ruled out bad things. If something as simple as shoeing behind and getting him back in shape are the cure.......it was money well spent! I am SO glad for you that you may have your answer and a solution. The not knowing is sometimes the worst. Good luck with the shoes and the get back in shape program. Don't you love it when your kids do you proud?

Thanks Desilu.... BTW, l LOVE your pic in your profile. Loffly.

[Instant Karma]

Wow Linda ((HUGS)) Lord knows Sunnydoodles and I have had our soundness issues. We went through about 6 months where he was NQR, and our vet finally figured out that Sunny must have leaned or fallen on something stronger than him, and the tip of his pelvis had taken a beating. He had me feel a small amount of calcification on the point of his hip- is that the same as a dropped hip?

Anyway, prior to this, we had yanked his hind shoes thinking something might have been amiss back there and causing his problems. Well it didn't help that our farrier at the time was a total hack, but I digress. Anyway, we switched farriers, put shoes on all around... rolled and squared off the toes. He was much more comfortable immediately... then being the sensitive guy that he is, Sunnydudes went through a gluteal muscle issue while we were bringing him back from his hip injury. Sooo... some chiropractic work and accupuncture, and careful exercising later, he was as good as new! But boy did I stress about it for months, because it was so hard to put a finger on and so many things had to be fixed and in such and such an order, for him to finally be sound all around again.

Darn these guys, why do we have to fall in love with the ones that need to have their own horse sized hamster ball?????

Good luck with your Stitchy, sounds like you are on the right path now!

[OakesBrae]

Linda I'm so glad to hear that it might be as simple as putting on hind shoes. Honestly, sometimes that's the best scenario (spending $4000 for $50 shoes)! I'd rather that than spending $4000 and ending up having to spend another $5000 in costly treatment!

Here's to Stitch and his continued wellbeing!

[Patch]

Linda I'm so glad to hear that it might be as simple as putting on hind shoes. Honestly, sometimes that's the best scenario (spending $4000 for $50 shoes)! I'd rather that than spending $4000 and ending up having to spend another $5000 in costly treatment!

Here's to Stitch and his continued wellbeing!

:lol: OakesBrae is very wise! Really glad to hear they didn't find anything serious :) .... slow and steady wins the race. He sounds like a real peach!

[LSM1212]

Thanks everybody... this makes me feel good. :D

And though the best case senario is just shoes... it still makes me cringe a bit on how much I've spent just to put shoes on the back. LOL But we still have the front to deal with... but have to fix the back first. :cool:

[LSM1212]

Darn these guys, why do we have to fall in love with the ones that need to have their own horse sized hamster ball?????

Good luck with your Stitchy, sounds like you are on the right path now!

OMG.... can I just say I have water all over my screen right now! Hamster ball...... LOL The funny thing is..... Stitch would probably LOVE to have one of his very own to roll around in.

[Gunnar]

Linda, glad to hear you got some good news! Not sure if it was all good news, so I will keep jingling!

You will laugh, but Rosie needs those back shoes too! The vet is so curous as to why she was fine her whole life and then not! We remember that right after I bought her we pulled her back shoes. She has tough feet and what the heck! Now the vet thinks she needs those back shoes! She even taped a chain on her hind leg to see if there was improvement. In this case it will be the weight of the shoes that helps!

So for the want of a couple shoes we have been stumped. I will jingle that Stitch get those shoes and get better! :sadsmile: Jingle for Rosie that her new shoes will help her too!:sadsmile:

[LSM1212]

Linda, glad to hear you got some good news! Not sure if it was all good news, so I will keep jingling!

You will laugh, but Rosie needs those back shoes too! The vet is so curous as to why she was fine her whole life and then not! We remember that right after I bought her we pulled her back shoes. She has tough feet and what the heck! Now the vet thinks she needs those back shoes! She even taped a chain on her hind leg to see if there was improvement. In this case it will be the weight of the shoes that helps!

So for the want of a couple shoes we have been stumped. I will jingle that Stitch get those shoes and get better! :sadsmile: Jingle for Rosie that her new shoes will help her too!:sadsmile:

Steph, so glad you checked in. I was afraid to ask about your babies. I was thinking about you alot yesterday. Ain't it funny? Shoes.... LOL For Stitch it's not the weight, but the break over. Silly creatures, aren't they? It's also funny that we are in the same situation alot.

If you remember, I think Stitch has had all 4 shoes all his life. We were the ones that took the back ones off... but he was fine when we did it. But we only had 3 months together before he did the stupid hip thing. So I guess we never really knew if he would have issues or not. Now that the hip is better, the old stuff must be coming out. :D I've always wondered if putting shoes on the back would be good for him. Since that's how he was... and probably the only way he knew. And he was sound.

Jingles for all. How's Bodie?

[Gunnar]

Steph, so glad you checked in. I was afraid to ask about your babies. I was thinking about you alot yesterday. Ain't it funny? Shoes.... LOL For Stitch it's not the weight, but the break over. Silly creatures, aren't they? It's also funny that we are in the same situation alot.

If you remember, I think Stitch has had all 4 shoes all his life. We were the ones that took the back ones off... but he was fine when we did it. But we only had 3 months together before he did the stupid hip thing. So I guess we never really knew if he would have issues or not. Now that the hip is better, the old stuff must be coming out. :D I've always wondered if putting shoes on the back would be good for him. Since that's how he was... and probably the only way he knew. And he was sound.

Jingles for all. How's Bodie?

Hey Linda, I thought of you too! Bodie is doing well! He was sound as he can be and the vet agress that his hocks are a little sore, maybe making his back sore. So he got injected and we will keep working him, trying to strengthen that back and get him ready for jumping!!:eek: :lol: :sadsmile: We will take it slow but it seems the light at the end of the Bodie tunnel is brightening day by day! He is doing pretty well for a horse about to be 17!:eek: :sadsmile:

Rosie will get shoes and then we will reevaluate from there. We may have to inject her stifle but we are avoiding that for now. She also has a sarcoid on her face. We have been watching it and yesterday the vet injected "regressor"?? into it. All in all it was a good day. The best part was when Connie, the trainer, got on Rosie to demonstrate the hitch. Of course at 1st she looked great but soon she was hitching like crazy. Everyone always thought it was me! So now they forgave me and realize I was not crazy that Rosie was worse!!

Both heese were well behaved thru it all and the bill was not too bad!! 2 horses, two lameness checks, hock injections for one, sarcoid injections for the other and 100 grams of bute for $585.00. What a deal!!:eek: :no: :sadsmile:

Hugs to the Stitch from me and my gang!

[LSM1212]

Both heese were well behaved thru it all and the bill was not too bad!! 2 horses, two lameness checks, hock injections for one, sarcoid injections for the other and 100 grams of bute for $585.00. What a deal!!:eek: :no: :sadsmile:

Hugs to the Stitch from me and my gang!

Better than my bill which was only for one horse. $852.00. But that was for the lameness check, 6 blocks, 10 digital x-rays, tranq for injection, coffin joint injection, and 3 legs wrapped. :D

Now just waiting for the bill from my Trainer/BM/BO for the hauling back and forth. ;)

Will keep jingling... :)

[LSM1212]

Just visited Stitch. He's doing well. No swelling from all the "poking" yesterday. Gave him scritches and treats. Hand grazing and pats. He was very happy to see Mom.

Now just waiting for the farrier appointment in 2 weeks (the original appointment that was set after the last one) to put the rear shoes on. Figured we'd just wait until his regular appointment so his front and back will be on the same schedule. Plus the vet said the injection would take 10-14 days to take effect anyways.

So now, I just wait. :D

[GainingMomento]

Thanks App.... will check the link out.

And thank you for the jingles.... this has been a hard road. But we'll get through it.

But yesterday was one of those days that after the Vet left and I put Stitch's sheet back on, I just lost it. The tears were rolling.... plenty and fast. But it is nice to be able to cry in your ever so loving and kind horse's neck. :cry:

It's been a rough year (not just horse wise, but in general..... but won't get into that).

You sound like you really love Stitch and it sounds like he's got a pretty special place in his heart for you as well, and that's what will get you through this rough time--both of you--together! :)

I'm so sorry to hear about this little setback. But it WILL turn out okay, you both have a strong desire to "fix" him and you will succeed! This is just a minor thing, maybe natures way of saying it's a little too soon for trotting?? Maybe trim/shoeing issue (as you mentioned)? Maybe moved the wrong way in the stall/field and just stressed something?

After going through my horse having EPM for 2 of the longest, most stressful years of my life (with COUNTLESS horsie neck cries!!!) I can deffinately understand where you're coming from. And everytime I thought he was getting better and might get his life back and was able to walk again, he would regress. It was so hard but I knew he wanted to get better and I knew he would and I couldn't take that away from him. We kept him comfortable and he just fought harder and harder with each new lameness, side effect, soreness, etc. His belief in himself, and my belief that he WOULD be my "Mo" again is what finally got him back on track.

Anyway, didn't mean to go into a long story but my point is that no matter how many things seem to crop up and try to stop your progress, it will eventually end and he WILL get better!! It's probably just something simple, they often times develop problems (such as a lameness) from bigger injuries...injuries are hard on them! :(

Just keep your head up, make sure you've got a good vet, a farrier you TRUST, and barn personnel who know him and love him like you do! It will all work out and you WILL show him again, hopefully VERY, VERY SOON!! :winkgrin: Feel free to email me if you need anything, I've dealt with almost everything out there it seems! The best of luck and stay positive! :)

[Flipper K.]

Wow, glad to hear this news!

Here's hoping the shoes do the trick!

Love,

Flip & Louie Meatballs (who is still on small turnout & handwalks w/ no riding until March 2007 :cool: )

Steph - fingers crossed for you, too!

[Boston Chicken]

I didn't realize he didn't have back shoes on. That can change a lot if they've always had shoes. In your case, he was already hurt so it makes sense that that wouldn't be the first thing to think of :D So glad he's on the way back :)

Faune and I are plugging along as well. 20 minutes trotting coming up :eek:

[vxf111]

Missed the good news, this is great! Hey, if all it takes is 4 shoes, that's a very small price to pay :):)

[Czar]

That's great!

Let us know how it goes when he gets his shoes on and remember...sometimes the best thing to do is to keep riding, even if they feel off. It's very hard to draw the line between an injury-related stiffness and simply coming back off of a long lay-off.

[LSM1212]

I didn't realize he didn't have back shoes on. That can change a lot if they've always had shoes. In your case, he was already hurt so it makes sense that that wouldn't be the first thing to think of :D So glad he's on the way back :)

Faune and I are plugging along as well. 20 minutes trotting coming up :eek:

Good luck. :) At least you get to trot. :yes: I'm back to staring at my pretty pony. :D

[LSM1212]

That's great!

Let us know how it goes when he gets his shoes on and remember...sometimes the best thing to do is to keep riding, even if they feel off. It's very hard to draw the line between an injury-related stiffness and simply coming back off of a long lay-off.

That's kinda what the Specialist said. He said don't go hog wild, but just take note on how he goes. Bad in the beginning but warms up out of it, or good in the beginning and gets worse as time goes by. :)

[Flipper K.]

I didn't realize he didn't have back shoes on. That can change a lot if they've always had shoes. In your case, he was already hurt so it makes sense that that wouldn't be the first thing to think of :D So glad he's on the way back :)

Faune and I are plugging along as well. 20 minutes trotting coming up :eek:


Hooray, Gillian and Faune!

How many minutes are you up to per ride now (total)?

-- Flip

[LSM1212]

Well, the farrier came out today. And put back shoes on Stitch. And then I tried him out. Still a "no go". The farrier stayed and watched to see how he was. It is definately his LF and RH now. Farried noticed he was having issues with the RH and keeping it up for her to work on. I did explain that unfortunately, all of the horse have been stuck in for the past week because of bad weather. So I'm sure that's not helping though I have tried to get out there and hand walk and t/o Stitch out in the arena for awhile to move around. We also told her that it must be "floating" as the Vet at R&R flexed him on that RH after the blocks, and he was sound. And now he's not.

He is kinda "peg legging" the LF. As if his shoulder is "stuck". The chiro was out last night to adjust him. And there was a huge "pop" when she did his shoulder. And he's doing something funny with the RH. Farrier is thinking hock.

So I called the PT specialist this afternoon and gave her the full scoop. She is coming out tomorrow to work on him (Accupressure, Accupuncture or Ultrasound). See if we can get the shoulder "unlocked". Trainer/BM/BO has called a contact she has that has a Niagra Massage machine. He has used it on our horses before but not Stitch. And it has helped alot. Farrier agrees that would probably help alot. Will talk to PT specialist and see what she thinks. The contact is coming out tomorrow late afternoon to work on another horse and it will be after the PT person comes out so we'll see if she thinks it's a good idea.

We are now thinking that the LF is the primary and the RH is the secondary or vice versa... it's one of those, chicken or the egg.... which was first? Trainer/BM/BO is also going to call the Vet at R&R tomorrow to give him an update (he's the one that suggested the hind shoes) and see what he thinks.

The Vet at R&R said a few weeks ago (when we went in) that he wasn't 100% sure that the injection we did in the LF would get it. And that he had a "nagging" feeling that something else was up but that there weren't any other signs.

So, some more jingles would be good. I'm tired of crying. :cry:

Since he was 3 legged lame, we kept "picking" at a few things. But now that it has gone to 2 legged lame, now maybe we can get some more definate answers and "attack" this thing.

Any suggestions are welcome.

[Peggy]

So sorry to hear this. It really does sound like he's compensating on top of compensating, hence the wandering lameness.

Went thru that with Cool. We'd fix something and then the lameness would move. Had a chiro/accupunture person out that fixed two of the legs and made him dead lame on a third. Never truly figured out where it started or totally resolved the issue. But, to hopefullly make you feel better, that was enough years ago that the diagnostic techniques have improved and the vet at the time was excellent at patching, but not so good at diagnosing. Switched vets after one patch failed, only to find that he'd done a hairline fracture of the pastern joint, forced his weight back, and gone ouch when the stifle hurt. What I felt was all hind end, no front end. How did we find the front end issue? She blocked the stifle, which seemed to be the main issue, and he was sound on that and dead lame on the front. It was a RH-LF issue in this case.

[LSM1212]

Thanks Peggy. Did you ever get him sound?

[Appassionato]

I'm still jingling!!!

Just a word of advice: please be sure to check his feet for heat at least daily. When a horse compensates long enough, mechanical laminitis can ensue. Not trying to add to your BS, sincerely trying to be helpful!

[LSM1212]

I'm still jingling!!!

Just a word of advice: please be sure to check his feet for heat at least daily. When a horse compensates long enough, mechanical laminitis can ensue. Not trying to add to your BS, sincerely trying to be helpful!

Thanks.... I do check him. 99% of the time, no heat. Only once in awhile when he's "really" off.

[crackerjack]

Wow you've certainly had your share of bad luck:( You must be so frustrated.
Here's hoping that 2007 goes much better for you and Stitch.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

ditto what crackerjack said.

[Boston Chicken]

Adding my good wishes too.

I would not expect putting shoes on him to fix him right away. It takes time for that to change things...just as it does when you take them off. Also, as opposed to the shoulder stuff, have you x-rayed his hocks? I don't recall.

Faune also has had a setback so I feel your pain. My vet was out today and took a series of x-rays...should know more tomorrow.

Jingles for you and Stitch! :sadsmile:

[Sebastian]

Awwww...yuck. Hang in there. Jingling madly for you and Stitch!! :yes:

Seb :)

[Peggy]

Thanks Peggy. Did you ever get him sound?After the second vet, yes. We ended up injecting both the pastern joint and the stifle. The options on the pastern were to inject or lay him up. At that point he was probably about 15 and we felt a layup would just cause him to get creakier. We had to do the pastern one more time and it got ugly looking (ringbone like) but didn't cause him further problems. We re-did the stifle a couple of times until he was about 19 and then just backed off on the work. I think if I'd used the second vet first, we would have gotten him sound sooner and it might have lasted longer. Who knows?

You just wish they could talk sometimes. Maybe not when you ride to a horrific distance, but certainly in a case like this where you can't figure out what's going on.

[LSM1212]

Adding my good wishes too.

I would not expect putting shoes on him to fix him right away. It takes time for that to change things...just as it does when you take them off. Also, as opposed to the shoulder stuff, have you x-rayed his hocks? I don't recall.

Faune also has had a setback so I feel your pain. My vet was out today and took a series of x-rays...should know more tomorrow.

Jingles for you and Stitch! :sadsmile:

That was my thought too about the shoes. He has them for at least 5-6 weeks since they are on now. So that will give us time.

I forgot to add on my OP, that the T/BM/BO and I discussed x-raying that hock. Just to see what going on. Will be speaking to her in more detail today after she speaks to the specialist at R&R.

I'm sorry you and Faune had a set back. It sucks... I know. :sadsmile: Keep me posted.

[LSM1212]

After the second vet, yes. We ended up injecting both the pastern joint and the stifle. The options on the pastern were to inject or lay him up. At that point he was probably about 15 and we felt a layup would just cause him to get creakier. We had to do the pastern one more time and it got ugly looking (ringbone like) but didn't cause him further problems. We re-did the stifle a couple of times until he was about 19 and then just backed off on the work. I think if I'd used the second vet first, we would have gotten him sound sooner and it might have lasted longer. Who knows?

You just wish they could talk sometimes. Maybe not when you ride to a horrific distance, but certainly in a case like this where you can't figure out what's going on.

Thanks Peggy... yes, that's exactly what I was saying last night. I wish Stitch could talk and say "Mom, this is where I hurt, how and why". Too bad I can't speak horse. :yes:

Trying to stay positive here.

[horsey nurse]

jingles from MD! And hugs and a shoulder for you to cry on. Just know how much Stitch loves you and wants to be better.

[onthebit]

Linda, I am so sorry but hopefully this is one of those where it wouldn't be an "instant result" type of thing with the shoes. I so hear you though, when I went through this for 2 years with my mare my mantra was that I wished I could just ask her what was hurting and why.

It is so hard trying to determine if you are focusing on a compensation issue or THE issue. Jingles for you and Stitch.

[LSM1212]

Linda, I am so sorry but hopefully this is one of those where it wouldn't be an "instant result" type of thing with the shoes. I so hear you though, when I went through this for 2 years with my mare my mantra was that I wished I could just ask her what was hurting and why.

It is so hard trying to determine if you are focusing on a compensation issue or THE issue. Jingles for you and Stitch.

Thanks... we do know that the original injury (dropped hip) has healed. So that's good. Now it's just trying to figure out are we dealing with a compensation issue, a "new" issue or an issue he had before but that is just now rearing it's ugly head. Or a combo of any of those.

The PT specialist is coming out this afternoon and then the Massage Guy is coming out later. So we'll probably do a "double whammy" and see if that helps. And then we'll probably schedule the Vet to come out and do x-rays on that Right Hock next week.

Cross fingers that this might be the right direction. ;)

[KellyS]

Thanks Peggy... yes, that's exactly what I was saying last night. I wish Stitch could talk and say "Mom, this is where I hurt, how and why". Too bad I can't speak horse. :yes:

That's how I used to feel too--but then I've been ill for two months and can easily vocalize where the pain is and how it feels and the doctors still can't figure out what is wrong. Don't beat yourself up too much about not being able to speak "horse"--mysterious illness is frustrating whether you can talk or not. :(

Best wishes for Stitch--I'm jingling that things will improve. My guy had a mystery lameness a few years ago and we could never pinpoint what was wrong. We ended up "retiring" him and he was turned out for a year. Amazingly, he came back sound and is going strong at 22 (evented at Training/Prelim this past year). Don't give up hope!

[Gunnar]

Linda, wow you just cannot get a break! Keep that chin up and keep up your work at diagnostic investigation!

Jingling for Stitch and Faun (:sadsmile: )!

FYI, Bodie is doing well, Rosie is the same! 2007 will be a better year, it just has to!:sadsmile:

[LSM1212]

Just got home. PT Specialist could only work on him for 1/2 the time. He threw an absolute fit. We aren't 100% sure why. All the other horses were out today (1st time in over a week because of weather). He didn't get to go out (I guess his paddock was still too muddy and for some reason he didn't get to run in the arena either). So needless to say, he was a complete d*ck. And that is really unlike him. I tried walking him around outside for a few minutes so we could get back to working on him. He acted like a 2 yo TB at the track. Dancing, etc. Good lord.

So we stopped. He was irritated, I was irritated and the PT person was getting a little frustrated. So we are tabling it until next week. But we did get some of the accupressure and ultrasound work done on his Left Shoulder. We just didn't finish completely and never got to the RH. :no: But some was better than none. PT said I could turn him out so I just put him in the Indoor. I barely unhooked the lead and he took off. Running around like a crazy man. That's what he needed. And after a bit, seem to move better. But that's a bit of his M.O. He can go pretty well w/o rider weight. But he does tend to back track once U/S. At this point, my Chiro showed up (but for a different reason). So she watched him go... and then we had the young girl who is helping out at the farm hop on him. Bareback... I just grabbed his bridle. And he did pretty well. Still off but much better than yesterday. Just W/T.

The Equimassage guy came out later and we did Stitch. He LOFFED it. He was as good as gold. And was leaning into the hand massager and was really diggin' the machine on his back.

So we will see how he feels tomorrow.

The saddle fitter is coming out on Monday. We are going to add my saddle to her list. I'm sure it doesn't fit as well as it did as it is pretty noticible that his lefft shoulder has some muscle atrophy.

T/BO/BM is calling to get an x-ray of his hock done next week.

Will keep everyone posted.

Thank you ALL for the jingles and thoughts. It has been a REALLY rough year.

Here's hoping that 2007 is better. :D

[Meadow36]

Linda, I must've kept missing this thread (from the Rood and Riddle visit on through today) but I've just read the whole thing and caught up. I'm so sorry to hear that Stitch is still having issues.

I had a mare a few years back with these nagging lamenesses, she was NQR for months, so I sent her to a breeding farm where she spent two years having babies and then was sold to a junior. I just spoke to the girl that has her and she's doing the mid level jumpers in Canada and hasn't taken a lame step since she's had her (two years). My point is, there's hope yet, even when you think the situation is hopeless (I never thought this mare would go sound again) - even if it means giving him an extended vacation and leasing something in the meantime.

[LSM1212]

Linda, I must've kept missing this thread (from the Rood and Riddle visit on through today) but I've just read the whole thing and caught up. I'm so sorry to hear that Stitch is still having issues.

I had a mare a few years back with these nagging lamenesses, she was NQR for months, so I sent her to a breeding farm where she spent two years having babies and then was sold to a junior. I just spoke to the girl that has her and she's doing the mid level jumpers in Canada and hasn't taken a lame step since she's had her (two years). My point is, there's hope yet, even when you think the situation is hopeless (I never thought this mare would go sound again) - even if it means giving him an extended vacation and leasing something in the meantime.

Thanks Meadow. :D It is an option I have considered. But to be honest, with all the money I have spent on this situation and even if giving him a more extended break (he's been off for about 9 months now) I really can't afford to pay for his care, and pay for the care of a lease horse.

Though my barn does offer leases and 1/2 leases on the schoolies. That would just be a cost I can't swing on top of Stitch's care. Maybe my T/BO/BM will take pity on me. :D But she has to make a living too so I don't think that will work either.

If he truly needs a "long" break, I will probably just continue to take my weekly lessons on the schoolies and maybe a practice ride here and there (as they cost also). I have been blessed in that some of the other private boarders have offered their horses for me to ride, just so I can continue to ride w/o cost. It's what I've been doing since he was first injured. So it will probably be what I continue to do.

But I just really feel for Stitch. He is getting cranky and upset again. He really wants his job back. And to be able to go back out with his buddies. Even when I was just walking around on him, he was much happier. He needs the mental stimulation too.

So we shall see.

[Meadow36]

What about a pasture board situation?? Where I am there are these places that take layups and retirees and the price is very reasonable, like $200/month. I imagine KY would have lots of those places. It usually consists of pasture with large run-in sheds and group turnout. I've met some of the owners of these places and they do a tremendous job. Some even offer extra services such as daily grooming, etc. I bet Stitch would think he's in heaven. :)

I'm not saying this is what you should do yet, but it might be something to research in case it comes up in the future. Just a thought.

[RugBug]

Ah, Linda. I'm so sorry to hear about your trials with Stitch. I'm praying that your 2007 is better for both of you. :yes:

[LSM1212]

What about a pasture board situation?? Where I am there are these places that take layups and retirees and the price is very reasonable, like $200/month. I imagine KY would have lots of those places. It usually consists of pasture with large run-in sheds and group turnout. I've met some of the owners of these places and they do a tremendous job. Some even offer extra services such as daily grooming, etc. I bet Stitch would think he's in heaven. :)

I'm not saying this is what you should do yet, but it might be something to research in case it comes up in the future. Just a thought.

In theory, great idea. But like I posted in the thread about stall vs pasture... Stitch wouldn't thrive well out in a pasture 24/7. He LOFFS his stall. Just not all the time. He's out 1/2 days and seems to really enjoy that arrangement. When I first got him, he would go out and after 20 minutes would be screaming to come back in. He came from a barn where they only turned him out (and mostly in an arena) while they cleaned his stall. So he was in probably 23.5 hours a day. But they were longed and worked every day. When he did the screaming and gate pacing when I got him, we did the "tough noogies".... deal with it. And he got used to it. And now enjoys his time out. But I don't think he'd be very happy being out all the time. So unfortunately, that's not an option. Though I would love it if he could be happy out 24/7.

Plus I don't just look at it as board. But all the other expenses that come with a 2nd horse.

Not a single specialist (Vet, Farrier, PT, Massage Guy, Chiro nor Lamesness Vet) have ever said that he will never be sound again. So we are just plugging on along. As I am determined to help him. He has done so much for me in the short time I've had him... I owe him that much. So if it means that I can't get another horse until I am financially able and he is just a "pet", so be it. :D

Thank you so much for the thought. It did cross my mind.

[Flipper K.]

Not a single specialist (Vet, Farrier, PT, Massage Guy, Chiro nor Lamesness Vet) have ever said that he will never be sound again. So we are just plugging on along. As I am determined to help him. He has done so much for me in the short time I've had him... I owe him that much. So if it means that I can't get another horse until I am financially able and he is just a "pet", so be it. :D



Linda,

This is EXACTLY where I am at with Louie. I feel for you so much as I read this ... it's tough spot we're in ... hang in there, kid. :sadsmile:

As I take Louie for his handwalks around the neighborhood on weekends, I think, "I own a 1,250 lb. dog." :lol:

Hopefully 2007 will find you & Stich, me & Louie, and Gillian & Faunie-cakes riding around with smiling faces!!!

:D
Love,
Flip

[Meadow36]

Oh no! I wasn't saying Stitch would be lame forever. Quite the opposite. Sometimes some pasture rest helps bring these guys around, that's all I was saying.

However, I understand your situation. Keep us posted on his progress. :)

[LSM1212]

Oh no! I wasn't saying Stitch would be lame forever. Quite the opposite. Sometimes some pasture rest helps bring these guys around, that's all I was saying.

However, I understand your situation. Keep us posted on his progress. :)

Oh, I know. That wasn't directed towards you... that's why I started a new paragraph. :D It was more of a statement. That I haven't put too much thought into a pasture only environment (ie. layup or retirement). Plus, what little thought I have put into it, I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work for Mr. Stitchy Poo. :)

[Boston Chicken]

Yes good luck to those of us with lame horses :sadsmile: My fauney is hanging in there but even the vet said on Thursday that big horses have more problems. Of course, I know this *sigh* but it doesn't make it any easier...

Here's hoping for many good things for Linda, Flip and others :sadsmile: (including me....)

Happy New Year!!!

[OakesBrae]

Gosh Linda, I am so sorry to hear about this, I was really hoping his issues would just be *fixed*. I'm going to continue to *jingle* for Stitch.

Have you videotaped him as he's moving now - could you do that? I know that you have the best of the best looking at him, but we have some *very* good eyes on this BB, and perhaps one of us may be able to brainstorm and see something to help you out - it's just a thought.

*jingles for Stitch and hugs for you*

[LSM1212]

Gosh Linda, I am so sorry to hear about this, I was really hoping his issues would just be *fixed*. I'm going to continue to *jingle* for Stitch.

Have you videotaped him as he's moving now - could you do that? I know that you have the best of the best looking at him, but we have some *very* good eyes on this BB, and perhaps one of us may be able to brainstorm and see something to help you out - it's just a thought.

*jingles for Stitch and hugs for you*

Good idea. But it will only be a clip. As hubby's digital camera that takes video creates too big of a file to upload onto my website. Except for a few seconds.

Though his issues change from day to day. :D Hopefully, he is feeling better today after the treatments yesterday.

I plan on going out today and try riding him bareback again.

[OakesBrae]

If you get raw video, I can receive a big file in my email and I have some compression software that I can use to squish it a little :) If that's helpful to you at all, let me know and I'll PM you my email addy. I don't mind doing it, and I know how frustrating it is to have a horse that's got roving lamenesses. Heaven knows I've spent enough money in the past trying to figure it out on various horses!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

LSM1212, so sorry you are in this situation! Here's major jingles Stitch "gets it all together."

[LSM1212]

If you get raw video, I can receive a big file in my email and I have some compression software that I can use to squish it a little :) If that's helpful to you at all, let me know and I'll PM you my email addy. I don't mind doing it, and I know how frustrating it is to have a horse that's got roving lamenesses. Heaven knows I've spent enough money in the past trying to figure it out on various horses!

Cool... that would be great. I usually end up splicing the video he takes.

Will see if I can talk him into going out with me today to take video.

Will do both. Him free moving and U/S (actually w/o a saddle as we think this might be part of the problem... when he was fit and the shoulder muscle was actually there, it was fine. But it may be putting strange pressure on that area since he has no muscle now).

[Plumcreek]

I have been following this thread. Can totally relate, as I spent 2+ years with my Regal Lark mare, paying for multiple diagnostics, longeing with tears leaking down my cheeks, and watching her hobble along, then blow up in pain, and asking her WHAT IS IT??? It turned out to be severe kissing spines, but presented as hind end lameness and shoulder lameness (from twisting to avoid her back pain) so we did back surgery, which solved the major cause. BUT, the physical effects of multiple years of twisting have taken 2 more years to work out. Now, of course, she is flowing and sound to longe, but the surgery site in saddle area is suddenly sore, so on it goes.

Have you X-rayed his back?? Did you read the thread in COTH Reference on the Cunean Tenectomy surgery? A very tight cunean tendon can cause a lot of back and hip pain, besides hock pain, although front leg pain is not usually included in CT issue symptoms. You have my jingles.

[LSM1212]

BTW, here is the machine we put on him yesterday.

http://www.equineproductsllc.com/index.html

This is what he loved. Especially the hand held device that they used all over his body while wearing the machine.

He kept leaning into the hand machine. He was in heaven. So may try and set up a few sessions of this treatment and see if this "loosens" things up so he can move more freely.

[LSM1212]

I have been following this thread. Can totally relate, as I spent 2+ years with my Regal Lark mare, paying for multiple diagnostics, longeing with tears leaking down my cheeks, and watching her hobble along, then blow up in pain, and asking her WHAT IS IT??? It turned out to be severe kissing spines, but presented as hind end lameness and shoulder lameness (from twisting to avoid her back pain) so we did back surgery, which solved the major cause. BUT, the physical effects of multiple years of twisting have taken 2 more years to work out. Now, of course, she is flowing and sound to longe, but the surgery site in saddle area is suddenly sore, so on it goes.

Have you X-rayed his back?? Did you read the thread in COTH Reference on the Cunean Tenectomy surgery? A very tight cunean tendon can cause a lot of back and hip pain, besides hock pain, although front leg pain is not usually included in CT issue symptoms. You have my jingles.

Thanks for the info. No, we haven't x-rayed his back. At least not yet. It is on the list of things to do if needed.

I originally took him to R&R a few weeks ago to drop him off for a Scinitigraphy/Bone Scan. But during the pre-exam, we got him pretty sound (about 95%) with blocks to pin point the areas, so decided to try some other things first. If these don't pan out, he will go back.

T/BO/BM said the other day, that if we take him back, we will drop him off and say to R&R, call us when he's sound... and sound U/S. :D

We are both VERY frustrated.

Thank you all for the jingles. It's just breaking it down piece by piece. Like a "which came first... the chicken or the egg?".

[Peggy]

Still thinking of you and hoping.

Just a thought (and probably b/c I'm prejudiced, having dealt with a horse who had his hocks injected multiple times only to have it block out in the stifle when someone finally got around to doing a more thorough workup). Have you thought about having the stifle x-rayed when your vet does the hocks? Some vets now have machines that allow this to be done in the field. I recall that hocks sometimes present and stifles and visa versa. Stifle pain will also sometimes reflect into the sacro-illiac (sp?) joint.

[LSM1212]

Still thinking of you and hoping.

Just a thought (and probably b/c I'm prejudiced, having dealt with a horse who had his hocks injected multiple times only to have it block out in the stifle when someone finally got around to doing a more thorough workup). Have you thought about having the stifle x-rayed when your vet does the hocks? Some vets now have machines that allow this to be done in the field. I recall that hocks sometimes present and stifles and visa versa. Stifle pain will also sometimes reflect into the sacro-illiac (sp?) joint.

Wouldn't be surprised. If you recall, his original injury is a dropped hip. So the Sacro area was definately traumatized. Though I'm sure he is still a little "off" in that area, the Lameness Specialist said he had healed well from that. That most likely most of this is compensation issues. And we just need to weed through them all.

X-rays might be good. We did inject both stifles thinking it might be there... but it didn't really do anything.

As a side note: Just to add insult to injury, he decided for the first time since I bought him (a little over a year ago) to throw a shoe today.

Geez... :sigh: And he just got done on Thur. I am really hoping that 2007 will be better... as 2006 has sucked. :eek: :mad: Farrier can't come out until Tue to put it back on. There goes any real hope of doing anything with him during my vacation.

I think I need a drink..... too bad I don't drink..... but this just might make me start. :winkgrin:

[onthebit]

I think I need a drink..... too bad I don't drink..... but this just might make me start. :winkgrin:[/quote]

If dealing with ongoing lame horse woes does not drive you to drink nothing will!!!!!!

I hope the two of you can have some fun together sans shoe over the next few days.

[Candle]

Have you considered breaking him to drive and doing competitive driving for a year or so and then reevaluating him under saddle? If my mare hadn't suddenly become sound when she did, I would have found a driving barn and broken her to drive. She was IR and was fine on the ground, but iffy under saddle until I finally got her stabilized. That would keep him busy, entertained, allow you guys to train together, and keep a rider's weight off his back. Just something to consider if he goes sound enough on the ground to try it out.

MAJOR JINGLES for you!!! I know having a horse that is not sound for any reason, especially ones you can't figure out is just enough to make you seriously crazy. If you EVER need someone else to talk to or cry to, please PM me. I know it takes a huge emotional toll on you to be up one day and down the next and always wondering if he's going to be sound today or not. It doesn't feel like it should be such a big deal, but OMG is it ever! I hope you get good news or a diagnosis soon.

[LSM1212]

Have you considered breaking him to drive and doing competitive driving for a year or so and then reevaluating him under saddle? If my mare hadn't suddenly become sound when she did, I would have found a driving barn and broken her to drive. She was IR and was fine on the ground, but iffy under saddle until I finally got her stabilized. That would keep him busy, entertained, allow you guys to train together, and keep a rider's weight off his back. Just something to consider if he goes sound enough on the ground to try it out.

MAJOR JINGLES for you!!! I know having a horse that is not sound for any reason, especially ones you can't figure out is just enough to make you seriously crazy. If you EVER need someone else to talk to or cry to, please PM me. I know it takes a huge emotional toll on you to be up one day and down the next and always wondering if he's going to be sound today or not. It doesn't feel like it should be such a big deal, but OMG is it ever! I hope you get good news or a diagnosis soon.

Thanks Candle... sent you a PM. :)

[SBT]

BTW, here is the machine we put on him yesterday.

http://www.equineproductsllc.com/index.html

This is what he loved. Especially the hand held device that they used all over his body while wearing the machine.

He kept leaning into the hand machine. He was in heaven. So may try and set up a few sessions of this treatment and see if this "loosens" things up so he can move more freely.

IME, horses often "tell" us what they need. :yes: If Stitch likes the massage, do MORE! :) You might even ask the MT to show you some massages you can do yourself on "target" areas every day, perhaps with warm liniment cream, to keep those muscles loose and happy. Maybe pick up one of those battery-powered mini-massagers at Linens N' Things? Or, if it's warm out, he could get hot-water massages if you have a garden hose nozzle with a pressurized "spray" setting. Just some ideas! Whatever you try, Stitch will probably let you know whether it's appreciated or not. ;)

Also, don't expect the more "invasive" treatments to work overnight. With chiro or PT, there can be MORE pain from joints being realigned and weak muscles being used again. Basically, the body is very good at adapting to weaknesses and misalignments, to the point that when you correct it, it HURTS because it isn't used to working the right way. ;) That's where massage comes in again: if you can avoid muscle spasm, things are more likely to remain corrected/aligned. Maybe I'm massage-happy because I'm an OT student ;), but even my non-professional experience has shown this modality to be one of the best. :yes:

Some in-hand exercise might be a good idea, too. Can you walk Stitch over poles and up little hills to make him use his hips more? Maybe teach him to long-line/ground drive, and go on walks together outside. It could be a fun way for you to help him recover, and a great way to monitor how he's moving. :yes:

Try not to get discouraged! Big injuries can take a long time to heal, as you know. Be patient, trust your intuition, and trust Stitch to tell you what feels good and what is "too much."

Good luck!

[Tha Ridge]

Have you completely eliminated the possibility of EPM yet?

[Kikki]

Linda, I have semi-kept up with your story and I know how you feel (as many others do as well...). It is so hard when you can't figure out what is wrong with them. The EPM thing might be worth investigating a hair more (I remember the thread on it, even posted on it, but don't remember what you did). I don't think he has EPM, just from what you are describing. I do think you are doing everything you know how to help him. I think you will get him sound, but its going to take some time. The full body bone scan is expensive, but you can get a great idea on soft and bony tissue issues which is nice. So that might very well be the step you need to take. Depending on what that turns up you can proceed from there.

I am going to agree with the poster that suggested field boarding him for a period if you can't pinpoint what exactly is wrong with him pretty quickly. We have had a couple very nice show horses that have been turned out for 3-6-9-12 months and have returned with their mystery lameness gone. These are horses that were in pressure cooker show barns that had never so much as been out during a good rain, much less been left out 24/7. These horses were so used to being stalled, would stand at the gate when they were ready to come in, etc. Their owners all thought they would fail to thrive in a pasture board situation, but in the right facility, the horses adjusted beautifully. Once they stop expecting to be brought in (by and large they want to come in because they get fed pretty quickly) they LOVED being out, moving around all the time. The consistant movement is awesome for them and they heal so much better in a 24/7 turnout situation than they do when they are stalled half the day. While I am not going to say you should absolutely do this, I would consider it more and talk with your providers about it. Don't worry about him adjusting to it - he will, I promise. If some of our wussy 6 figure hunters can adapt, most any horse will do wonderfully with it.

Also, have you talked with anyone about sending him to Kesmark for a period of time? Maybe them putting some intensive exercise on him will strengthen his muscles and supporting tissues and solve his problems. They do an AMAZING job there - we have several in the barn that have been there and we have been extremely pleased with the results. It can be a long wait to get in, but they take great care of the horses and have some awesome problem solvers on their staff. Also, with them being able to go over him EVERY SINGLE DAY they can see exactly how his issues change.

[Boston Chicken]

That's great advice, Kikki.

[Plumcreek]

"If you recall, his original injury is a dropped hip. So the Sacro area was definately traumatized. Though I'm sure he is still a little "off" in that area, the Lameness Specialist said he had healed well from that. That most likely most of this is compensation issues. And we just need to weed through them all."

Forgive me if you have already done shockwave to the sacroiliac area, but it just helped my gelding a bunch. He had a wreck and fell backwards, severely jaming his whole hip and sacrum area several years ago.

[LSM1212]

Have you completely eliminated the possibility of EPM yet?

The Lameness Specialist did specifically test for EPM. He is 99% sure it's not. But you never really know.

He wanted to try a few other things first and if for some reason we were getting the same results, then we would treat him for EPM.

[LSM1212]

Linda, I have semi-kept up with your story and I know how you feel (as many others do as well...). It is so hard when you can't figure out what is wrong with them. The EPM thing might be worth investigating a hair more (I remember the thread on it, even posted on it, but don't remember what you did). I don't think he has EPM, just from what you are describing. I do think you are doing everything you know how to help him. I think you will get him sound, but its going to take some time. The full body bone scan is expensive, but you can get a great idea on soft and bony tissue issues which is nice. So that might very well be the step you need to take. Depending on what that turns up you can proceed from there.

I am going to agree with the poster that suggested field boarding him for a period if you can't pinpoint what exactly is wrong with him pretty quickly. We have had a couple very nice show horses that have been turned out for 3-6-9-12 months and have returned with their mystery lameness gone. These are horses that were in pressure cooker show barns that had never so much as been out during a good rain, much less been left out 24/7. These horses were so used to being stalled, would stand at the gate when they were ready to come in, etc. Their owners all thought they would fail to thrive in a pasture board situation, but in the right facility, the horses adjusted beautifully. Once they stop expecting to be brought in (by and large they want to come in because they get fed pretty quickly) they LOVED being out, moving around all the time. The consistant movement is awesome for them and they heal so much better in a 24/7 turnout situation than they do when they are stalled half the day. While I am not going to say you should absolutely do this, I would consider it more and talk with your providers about it. Don't worry about him adjusting to it - he will, I promise. If some of our wussy 6 figure hunters can adapt, most any horse will do wonderfully with it.

Also, have you talked with anyone about sending him to Kesmark for a period of time? Maybe them putting some intensive exercise on him will strengthen his muscles and supporting tissues and solve his problems. They do an AMAZING job there - we have several in the barn that have been there and we have been extremely pleased with the results. It can be a long wait to get in, but they take great care of the horses and have some awesome problem solvers on their staff. Also, with them being able to go over him EVERY SINGLE DAY they can see exactly how his issues change.

Thanks Kikki. If I do end up trying the pasture board thing, I'll have to move barns. My current barn doesn't offer it. Not enough pasture to do that. Can you tell me a little more about Kesmark? Never heard of them.

[LSM1212]

"If you recall, his original injury is a dropped hip. So the Sacro area was definately traumatized. Though I'm sure he is still a little "off" in that area, the Lameness Specialist said he had healed well from that. That most likely most of this is compensation issues. And we just need to weed through them all."

Forgive me if you have already done shockwave to the sacroiliac area, but it just helped my gelding a bunch. He had a wreck and fell backwards, severely jaming his whole hip and sacrum area several years ago.

No forgiveness needed. :D I just can't remember who knows what story. LOL

We have done other treatments to the hip area. But not shockwave. Maybe I'll look into that too. (My list is slowly growing). Who did it? How do I go about finding out who can do it?

[Plumcreek]

Any good performance horse lameness vet should have a shock wave machine by now. I would find someone who does it regularly. Be prepared for around $400.+ The only time it did not help tremendously was the kissing spines, because they were so severe. Normally it helps kissing spines quite a bit. I think I would try SW over lumbar and sacroiliac before Scintigraphy (sp?).

[LSM1212]

Any good performance horse lameness vet should have a shock wave machine by now. I would find someone who does it regularly. Be prepared for around $400.+ The only time it did not help tremendously was the kissing spines, because they were so severe. Normally it helps kissing spines quite a bit. I think I would try SW over lumbar and sacroiliac before Scintigraphy (sp?).

How many treatments and how often did you have to do it?

Unfortunately, the Lameness Vet is over an hour away and I have to pay to have him hauled there, take time off work, and pay T/BM/BO to be there with us. :( Cost isn't as much of an issues, I've spent thousands already. It's more of a time issue.

Maybe I can do a search and see if anyone local has something like this.

[Plumcreek]

Forgot to mention they have top be tranqed and in stocks (mostly because of the value of the equiptment) Part of cost is in recharging the shocker head. Generally it takes two times. 4 weeks apart. Sometimes one will do it. My big gelding with the long term stuck lumbar vertebrae (short step and hitch on one hind at trot only, unwillingness to trot, wanted to go right to canter) could not be diagnosed by other vets, until Chiro/vet noticed how unmovable his lumbar was. Addjustments alone helped a little, but one shockwave shook things up so that adjustments lasted, and now he is permanently fixed.

You mean all those saddlebreds in L'vlle don't get shockwaved?? What about the track vets?

[Buffyblue]

Linda, I had three shockwave treatments (10 to 14 days apart) done on Buffy a year and a half ago and was quite pleased! Insurance covered them which was a plus (I still had a lot of bills that weren't covered). Her injury was a hind tendon sheath, so not the same as yours, but it really accelerated the healing, IMO. We followed my vet's instructions to a letter as far as initial stall rest, hand walking, and her return to riding.

Of note, I did have to take her into the clinic to get the treatments done - the machine was not portable. Happy New Year from me and Buffy!

[LSM1212]

You mean all those saddlebreds in L'vlle don't get shockwaved?? What about the track vets?

Oh, I'm sure they are. Will just have to do some calling around. I know for "big" stuff most people travel to Lexington. Since it's only about an hour away.

The Massage Guy does stuff at the track. May get my Trainer to give him a call and see what he knows.

[luvmytbs]

Dr. Swanstrom, Rick Castelle and Dr. Foster are track vets. I know Rick does not do house calls off the track. I don't know about Dr. Foster, but they might be able to give you a name of someone who has the equipment.
Murray Johnson, Perfect Drift's trainer, was telling me about a treatment device he uses as well as is the distributor for, but I forgot (CRS) what exactly he said it was. But it came up in coversation when we were talking about bad backs, accupressure etc. And I remember that the equipment was rather expensive. If you talk to any of the above vets, they should know what it is Murray was talking about.

[LSM1212]

Dr. Swanstrom, Rick Castelle and Dr. Foster are track vets. I know Rick does not do house calls off the track. I don't know about Dr. Foster, but they might be able to give you a name of someone who has the equipment.
Murray Johnson, Perfect Drift's trainer, was telling me about a treatment device he uses as well as is the distributor for, but I forgot (CRS) what exactly he said it was. But it came up in coversation when we were talking about bad backs, accupressure etc. And I remember that the equipment was rather expensive. If you talk to any of the above vets, they should know what it is Murray was talking about.

LOL....Murray Johnson is the one that came out and worked on Stitch. :D I didn't know he was Perfect Drift's trainer... I was going to see how Stitch reacted to this current massage treatment and see about getting him to come back out. :) I posted the link in an earlier post of what he used and that he is a distributor for. Here it is again.

http://www.equineproductsllc.com

I can't afford to get the actual machine (I think it's like $4000). I'll see if Ang knows Dr. Foster and go from there for the shock wave therapy. I don't mind taking him somewhere local. It's just shipping back and forth to Lexington that is getting pricey since I don't have a truck/trailer.

Thanks girl. :D Now after you posted, I just realized I should have contacted you directly. :yes:

Still working on getting those "feet" pics. But it's been a bit of a disaster lately.

[Madison]

I would definitely consider going back for the full body bone scan at this point. Like Kikki said, it is good for picking up soft tissue issues as well as bone issues. And when you do not know which way to go, it should be helpful in telling you what you need to be focusing on and treating. Personally, before throwing a bunch more money on treatments, I would want to know what I am treating. When I had one done on my mare, the total cost was around $1500, including the hospitalization charges for the stay, and it was worth every penny to me to finally know what was going on. you have my sympathies - it is a miserable situation to be in. But don't give up - after a long and frustrating road, I got to jump my mare last weekend for the first time in a year and a half!! So, patience can pay off.

[saratoga]

I would just like to say that although I have not read all of the posts, I agree with turning the horse out for awhile. Every time that I have had a weird lameness come up, I would turn my horse out for however long it took- 3-6 months in my case, although it could certainly be longer. I think the combination of time and all the movement helps. It always did in my cases.

I would think that restricting movement so much, even for half a day, would not be good for most injuries/issues to heal. Of course, I am not a vet and certainly don't know your situation, but that is what I would do first, certainly before spending thousands of dollars.

[luvmytbs]

LOL....Murray Johnson is the one that came out and worked on Stitch. :D

Doesn't he just have the cutest australian accent???? ;)

[LSM1212]

Doesn't he just have the cutest australian accent???? ;)


Yep, his nickname is Roo. LOL

I just got back from the barn. The saddle fitter came out and we added Stitch to the list. Well, now I'm w/o my saddle. :sadsmile: It needs to be sent off to get fixed. Though it wasn't bad... it just needs some "tweaking". So I rode in my lesson today w/ my trainer's saddle. Ugh. I miss mine alot already. And that's now more money to be spent. :no: But I want to give Stitch the best possible chance.

Will wait for the Farrier to come out and put his shoe back on and get him moving again to see if any of the treatments the other day did any good. If so, will have Murray come back out and do a few more treatments.

The bone scan has not been ruled out yet. Neither has the pasture board (though I would have to move him away from the current farm I am at as they don't offer pasture board). Not sure if that stress is worth it right now.

My trainer is going to make a few calls for me. To the Lameness Specialist at R&R to see what he thinks (ie. bone scan, etc), to her best friend's hubby who is a Track Vet (not at Churchill but was) about the shock wave therapy, and about getting x-rays of his hocks.

Thanks for all of the advice. Will keep everyone posted.

[Kikki]

Thanks Kikki. If I do end up trying the pasture board thing, I'll have to move barns. My current barn doesn't offer it. Not enough pasture to do that. Can you tell me a little more about Kesmark? Never heard of them.

Well, I wouldn't consider it "moving barns" but sending your horse to a facility that caters to rehabbing horses (there are several very good ones in KY that cater a lot to the race horse people). You can pick a nice facility and send him there, go visit when you can, and keep riding and lessoning with your current trainer. Even places that cater to retired show horses would be a good place for him to go - they take excellent care of the horses and would make sure he adjusts well and is happy, and they will feed him, look at him, and go over him daily. I don't know the names of any of the places up your way off the top of my head, but I can find out a couple (I have been to 1 place up there with a friend when she had a horse recovering from a mystery lameness - she spent a fair bit of time researching places and found a couple good ones). You could pose the question to the COTHers here and I am sure there would be plenty of good suggestions.

Kesmark Equine Rehibilitation Center is used a great deal by race horse trainers for their injured horses. Amonst other things, they have a great swimming pool there. They have several different tools for rehabbing horses, an amazing staff of vets and techs, and just a generally well-run facility. It is located in I believe Lexington. I have mixed emotions about Rood and Riddle, though their diagnostic workups are good. If he were MY horse, I would have a full body bone scan done (including soft tissue) and then send him to Kesmark with the results and tell them to get him sound and fit, and call you when they are done. I think you would be really happy with them.

I know this sounds expensive, and it is, but in the long run I think it would equal a sounder horse faster. I know you have already spent so much money on him trying to fix all the problems that have popped up but I think it time to pull out all the stops and get to the bottom of this if possible, and get it solved. If you just can't spend the money to send him to Kesmark (though, all of our horses have had it covered by their insurance) then I would seriously consider having a bone scan done and then turning him out for 3-6 months.

I really do feel your pain - I have been in your shoes with one we just couldn't figure out, and I have seen many others at the various places I have worked (including at big show barns and with a vet) so I know well how frustrating and upsetting it is.

[LSM1212]

Kesmark Equine Rehibilitation Center is used a great deal by race horse trainers for their injured horses. Amonst other things, they have a great swimming pool there. They have several different tools for rehabbing horses, an amazing staff of vets and techs, and just a generally well-run facility. It is located in I believe Lexington. I have mixed emotions about Rood and Riddle, though their diagnostic workups are good. If he were MY horse, I would have a full body bone scan done (including soft tissue) and then send him to Kesmark with the results and tell them to get him sound and fit, and call you when they are done. I think you would be really happy with them.

I know this sounds expensive, and it is, but in the long run I think it would equal a sounder horse faster. I know you have already spent so much money on him trying to fix all the problems that have popped up but I think it time to pull out all the stops and get to the bottom of this if possible, and get it solved. If you just can't spend the money to send him to Kesmark (though, all of our horses have had it covered by their insurance) then I would seriously consider having a bone scan done and then turning him out for 3-6 months.

I really do feel your pain - I have been in your shoes with one we just couldn't figure out, and I have seen many others at the various places I have worked (including at big show barns and with a vet) so I know well how frustrating and upsetting it is.

I did a search on Kesmark. Came up with nothing. Do you have any contact information on them? Website or something. I probably don't have enough insurance left to cover a long period of time there. There is a cap per horse. So not sure if it would be covered. But something to think about. Would like to research but nothing came up with a google search.

[Kikki]

Linda, I don't think they have a website. Go figure. I don't have the contact info handy and I can't seem to find a listing but I know who I can get the info from, so I will try to track that down and get it to you. I think at anything, you would find them interesting and helpful to talk to. They have dealt with some famous show and race horses.

[LSM1212]

Linda, I don't think they have a website. Go figure. I don't have the contact info handy and I can't seem to find a listing but I know who I can get the info from, so I will try to track that down and get it to you. I think at anything, you would find them interesting and helpful to talk to. They have dealt with some famous show and race horses.

Thanks.... that would be great. Can't ever have too much information. :D

[Sebastian]

No forgiveness needed. :D I just can't remember who knows what story. LOL

We have done other treatments to the hip area. But not shockwave. Maybe I'll look into that too. (My list is slowly growing). Who did it? How do I go about finding out who can do it?

I've been thinking shockwave too... My new trainer has used it on several with excellent results.

Ask your vet if they do it, if not, maybe call the nearest hospital. They may have suggestions for who's doing it in the field in your area.

Good Luck!!!
Seb :)

[LSM1212]

I've been thinking shockwave too... My new trainer has used it on several with excellent results.

Ask your vet if they do it, if not, maybe call the nearest hospital. They may have suggestions for who's doing it in the field in your area.

Good Luck!!!
Seb :)

Thanks Seb. In a previous post, my trainer said that she would call her Track Vet friend and see who has the ability to do shock wave in our area so we don't have to ship all the way out for it.

I think besides the x-rays on his hocks, it's my next step. :D

[Plumcreek]

The thing about shockwave, is that you have to know exactly where it is needed and what reault you are looking for, otherwise you may be wasting a lot of money. Shockwave breaks up calcification (I think) and brings blood flow into an area to clean out junk. You said his lameness started with a dropped hip. Does that mean a sacroiliac uneveness? Is he tender and/or rigid in palpation over hips or lumbar? Is he stuck?

My success with shockwave came after: Chiro pointed out an area where she could not get movement of spine on horse that had a hitch in one hind leg. Other horse was shockwaved over back spot showing arthritic shadows on radiographs. Latest horse, that fell backwards and broke ishium projection several years ago, was shockwaved because he was short striding on hind leg and vet found rigidity, soreness and some muscle atrophy over hips. All dramatically improved.

Normal area of treatment is only several inches wide and long. In other words, it is kind of expensive to go hunting with.

[LSM1212]

The thing about shockwave, is that you have to know exactly where it is needed and what reault you are looking for, otherwise you may be wasting a lot of money. Shockwave breaks up calcification (I think) and brings blood flow into an area to clean out junk. You said his lameness started with a dropped hip. Does that mean a sacroiliac uneveness? Is he tender and/or rigid in palpation over hips or lumbar? Is he stuck?

My success with shockwave came after: Chiro pointed out an area where she could not get movement of spine on horse that had a hitch in one hind leg. Other horse was shockwaved over back spot showing arthritic shadows on radiographs. Latest horse, that fell backwards and broke ishium projection several years ago, was shockwaved because he was short striding on hind leg and vet found rigidity, soreness and some muscle atrophy over hips. All dramatically improved.

Normal area of treatment is only several inches wide and long. In other words, it is kind of expensive to go hunting with.

Yes, original injury was a dropped hip. Between the Chiro, Vet and PT Specialists, we figure his issues are his RH and LF. At least we are slowly narrowing it down. Going to get some x-rays to see what's up in the RH (it's saying hock). And for the LF, it's his shoulder that is locked up.

That's why I am going through this process first before doing shock wave, etc. And why we are speaking to those familiar with it to see what we can do.

Thanks for the more detailed information. :D

[vxf111]

Linda, I've been on the board a lot less often lately-- but have you had the bone scan done? If not, I would think that's probably a good idea at this point. In my eyes, I'd rather spend more money in diagnosis so I can decide whether it's worth spending a lot on treatment. As another poster pointed out, some therapies are really only worthwhile when targeted to a specific area with a problem. If you've already done the bone scan, I apologize, I haven't been following this thread as closely as I have in the past.

I also second the suggestion that, if you can't get to the bottow of what's wrong, 3-6 (or more) months of turnout in large pasture might be worthwhile. That's what I've decided to do with Shane (just have to find a place to do it). I figure, it can't hurt and nothing else has worked, so why not try it?

[Boston Chicken]

And for the LF, it's his shoulder that is locked up.

Linda, have you x-rayed his front feet? Shoulder issues can sometimes come from feet issues. Just a thought.

[Czar]

Just wanted to add my jingles...it's a long road but there's definitely hope :)

[olympicprincess]

I plan on going out today and try riding him bareback again.:confused: I don't understand why you would ride him like this. I wouldn't even make him walk any further than necessary. From what I gather, he has never had a long length of time off. I know he loves his turnout, but as you said "tough noogies". I'd keep him in, not turn him out to run and play and possibly reinjure/stress whatever his problem is.
...I tend to be more cautious but I have very sound horses. I just put a student's horse on 3 days rest because he was stepping short. Not lame, but wasn't pushing off as strong with his right hind. And if my event horses can go from turnout and being in condition to stall rest- your guy can too. ;)

To me, stall rest and no work is a CHEAP option to explore. You just have to not feel guilty about him staying in his stall for a while.

[LSM1212]

Linda, have you x-rayed his front feet? Shoulder issues can sometimes come from feet issues. Just a thought.

Yes, the LF has been x-rayed. I think I posted earlier the results from when we got back from R&R.

[horsey nurse]

I know that people are pushing you to have the body scan done, but I would wait. Here is why. My trainers jumper jumped out over the paddock fence and fell in the process. He went from being able to do anything with anyone to not even being able to be mounted after he was cleared by the vet for riding. If you did get on him he would walk and trot, but if you tried to canter him he would instantly buck and run. She tried adequan, and then took him to Leesburg for the scan. His neck lit up in one place, and his hocks lit up. They told her to inject his hocks and to keep up the adequan for his neck. She did, horse was still not rideable. She was conviced by one of her students to take the horse down to Diane Wagner a DVM that started as a track vet but has specialized in acupuncture and chiro and has her own holistic practice. One session with her and Diane found the horse had a rib out of place in the saddle area and that a vertebrae at the base of the neck was completely out of alignment. There were some other things as well that had not lit up on the scan. Diane did her treatment, scheduled a follow up in 4 weeks and the horse is back being ridden and jumping without difficulty. My trainer now wishes she would have started with Diane instead of spending the thousands on the scan to not find out the answers.

So I guess this is my message, the scan can only tell you so much. Trust your instincts and do what you feel is best. I know that you have xrayed, injected, blocked, and massaged, have you tried acupuncture?

And Toady and I are jingling like mad for you here in MD!

[findeight]

If he were mine I think I'd just send him to a lay up and let him spend most of his time outside working his own problems out with the consistent movement they give themselves in the field.
Many of the lay up facilities offer stalls for night in winter and day in summer with the horses out 12 to 14 hours a day in all but the worst weather-like tornados, lightening and ice.
In our area that ought to run you, maybe, 400-475 and they usually groom and hold for vet and farrier. These are pros that work exclusively with the sick, lame and needy and well worth the price for a proper rehab.

I'm thinking he will do better with consistent movement out of the confines of the stall. And he WILL get used to it and learn to love it, don't think on human terms for horsey behavior...he just associates stall with food too much.

If you want to persue it, the idea of swimming strikes me as excellent to restrengthen without bearing weight...but that will cost you a bit and I doubt yur insurance will cover it.

I would get all the various tests done, especially involving his back. Blocking is not always effective in finding the true cause of lamness like you describe.

[LSM1212]

:confused: I don't understand why you would ride him like this. I wouldn't even make him walk any further than necessary. From what I gather, he has never had a long length of time off. I know he loves his turnout, but as you said "tough noogies". I'd keep him in, not turn him out to run and play and possibly reinjure/stress whatever his problem is.
...I tend to be more cautious but I have very sound horses. I just put a student's horse on 3 days rest because he was stepping short. Not lame, but wasn't pushing off as strong with his right hind. And if my event horses can go from turnout and being in condition to stall rest- your guy can too. ;)

To me, stall rest and no work is a CHEAP option to explore. You just have to not feel guilty about him staying in his stall for a while.

Okay... just to summarize.

From the original diagnosis of the dropped hip (occured mid March) the Lameness Vet said stall rest for a few weeks (which we did), then hand walk, and then t/o only in a VERY small paddock (tranq at first and then not). And that is what we have done for the past 9 months. He can move around but not really get in an uproar in the small paddock (think tiny). And if the weather was even slightly bad, he stayed in (just t/o'd in the indoor arena while his stall was cleaned ~ think small too). So he did have the extended "time off". I also put him on Quietex during this time to just "mellow" him out. I followed the Dr's orders. He said it would take 4-6 months to heal. And gave me the treatment schedule.

Well, after 6 almost 7 months (Early October).... I asked my regular Vet out since he was still "off". To be honest, I just didn't want to spend the major dough to ship him back to the Specialist if I didn't have too. So my local vet checked a few things out and we got him going pretty sound after a few visits, injections, etc. He thought the rest was just "residue" and he needed to just work it out. So I just started getting on him about a month or so ago (I've only been on him a handful of times). And we were doing really well. ANd he got to move up to a larger paddock though still by himself. But now we are back to slightly off.

So made appt with Specialist out of town (Beginning of December). Took him there... got him sound with blocks. Decided it was best to pass on the scan (for now) and see how it goes (coffin joint injection and he said to put back shoes on). So, have left him alone for the past 3 weeks until the Farrier came out for regular visit and to put back shoes on. He went badly w/ the new shoes but not surprised. I'm sure it will take a little while. But at least it is more pinpointed now as the LH is looking fine (the side that he dropped). And while we were at the Specialist, he said that his hipped had healed great and that most likely, his current issues, are compensation related. He went much better on Friday after the other work was done. And was ridden bareback (for like 10 minutes and mostly walking). The thing is... he goes almost completely sound on his own (probably 90-95%). But it's when you put a rider on him. So that is why we keep "trying him out". So is it residue, is it him just being out of shape, or is it another issue? That's what we are trying to figure out. And that's also why I had the saddle fitter out and my saddle is now being shipped to do some tweaking to help him.

When he does go out... it's for 12 hours a day.

So here is our timeline of the past week:

Chiro was out on Wed of this past week.. noticed locked shoulder on LF and some slight issues with RH.

Farrier out on Thur and put the NB on the front and a version of those on the back. I rode him lightly to see if it helped. Not much difference except the LH was better. But still issues with RH and LF. Farrier noticed locked shouler also and suggest hock for the hind problem.

PT and Massage Guy came on Friday. PT person said it was definately Left Shoulder and RH. So we worked those areas. Massage Guy did the full body thing. Stitch loved it.

He pulled one of the shoes off on Sat. Farrier is coming out today to put it back on. So except for Saturday (12/30 ~ when the weather cleared up and it was dry enough for him to be t/o'd) he's been locked in since before Christmas.

T/BM/BO is making calls today: to Lameness Specialist to give him an update and see what he thinks, to Massage Guy about coming back out, to Vet to get x-rays of his hocks done, and to BF's Hubby who is a Track Vet about Shock Wave options in the area.

:D

But you know what's funny...... most of the concensus on this board says to take him somewhere that has pasture board and turn him out in a big field and leave him there for months. And then pull him back out and see what we've got. But others are saying, keep him in and let him do nothing.

I get such conflicting messages... and not just on this board. LOL Some say he just needs to work out of some of this... some say treat him like a china doll... some say do all the tests you can. That is the beauty of this board. Such diverse opinions. :D I think it's FindEight's quote.... 2 people.... 3 opinions. Cracks me up every time. :lol:

Do you all see now why I get confused? :D

I appreciate all of the help you all have given me. And as you can see, I've done some of it. And I'm checking out the rest. But I do have limited funds. So I have to pick and choose. And though I do my best to describe it here... it's hard to really get a feel of it over a BB.

Hugs to those who keep jingling for us. I know it will all work out in the end.

[vxf111]

You are in a tough spot, I totally understand.

And I don't necessarily disagree with those who say wait for the bone scan.

I will tell you WHY I found it useful. Shane presented with what appeared to be a problem in the stifle. Even blocked, it was hard to nail down exactly where the problem was. It wasn't until the bone scan that other areas even APPEARED to be related (one shoulder, front feet, and hocks). I don't think we would have EVER come around to testing the front feet if the bone scan hadn't have given us the idea to look there. And I would have never guessed that there was a problem with the hocks because THAT issue appeared to me to be stifle related.

So, I'm just saying that in one of these "hard to pinpoint WHERE the problem is" cases, the bone scan and be really useful. That being said, there's certainly no harm in trying less expensive options first-- all you're losing is time and it's cheaper. BUT... if you're concerned with getting to the bottom of things faster, I'd say go for the bone scan.

I'm not sure why people are telling you to treat Stitch with kid gloves and not let him move around at all. That's contrary to what ALL the vets are saying now (now that the problem is no longer the hip, the stall rest was for the hip, right?). If he's sound without a rider, I don't see why you'd want to limit his movement, especially with fitness being an issue. I may have missed some important detail on that point.

[Gunnar]

Linda, I will keep jingling for Stitch! I have to agree with the out and about theory. It is so hard when we cannot figure out what is wrong but time out and about 24/7 was what cured Bodie's knee problems. Like you I had a time line and it kept being extended by Bodie and the vet. Finally vet conferred with another vet (surgeon who did knee surgery) and they said he may never be sound or it may take another year. So out he went, not in a pasture but in a 50 by 50. I finally got him sound but it took much longer than anyone ever thought! Even now I cannot bear him being in a stall! He lives in a large pen and is out in a larger area at night so he moves around more than in a stall. Once we get the vets OK he can go out in the small pastures but for now he is stuck inside. In his situation he needs level ground and the small pastures are on a hill. The large pastures are level but we are afaid of how crazy he may get! I hope someday to get him out in the larger pasture but it will be a while!

If I were to move him closer to me I would not be able to find a situation like this! You have to go with your gut! But in my case we had to try something different as living in a stall was not doing it! I gave up my H/J trainer and moved him and took care of him myself. Each day I tryed to work him in the large round pen and over time he finally came around! But mind you he injured himself in Nov 2003, had knee surgery in May 2004, was moved outside in December 2004 and was finally sound in June 2005! so it was a long time. Of course then he got hurt again in November 2005, finally being sound in October 2006. :sadsmile: So even the best of care and plans are not enough to keep them injury free!

I am so sorry and really hope Stitch comes around. I so enjoyed your adventures with him and look forward to the day when the two of you are back at it!!

Jingling for Stitch, Flip,Faune and everyone who needs it, from Bodie and Rosie (who still need jingles herself!:sadsmile:

Hang in there!:sadsmile:

[findeight]

Just that in my experience with others in my barn and with those friends from outside dealing with vague on again, off again lamness that eludes diagnosis, rehab type turn out in a large pasture has let them sort of heal themselves. That includes one with a dropped hip the owner took home and turned out for a year.

He has to relearn to use his body with his "handicap" and I just think the best place is OUT in a large field for a good 90 days.

BUT I also think you need to consider making sure there is not something else wrong with a full work up...sometimes we all think we get lucky and stop when we find something blocks out sound...missing the fact something else is going on as well. He could have secondary suspensory issues here as well-and they can seem to roam around or block sound but come back with a vengence a week later. If those are minor, the outside treatment is the best course as well.
Just had one in the barn finally diagnosed with a suspensory strain after 4 months of on again, off again, blocking sound, off when ridden...that one is now at a rehab and recuperating outside.

I just shudder when I read of one bouncing off the walls during rehab...they rehurt themselves too often. Please don't go there.

On the plus side, sure doesn't sound like EPM or anything neurological. Sounds like a secondary issue from the dropped hip. Maybe something he did when he fell/got cast or whatever hurt the hip or something from trying to relearn to balance.
I would stay off his back until this is resolved.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Speaking to the compensation issues - I have gone through this (personally) as well as with Ted. It's as if you uncover a layer, focus on that, and then another layer appears.

Don't give up hope. Address what presents in the best way you can. Everyone compensates differently.

[Madison]

So, I'm just saying that in one of these "hard to pinpoint WHERE the problem is" cases, the bone scan and be really useful. That being said, there's certainly no harm in trying less expensive options first-- all you're losing is time and it's cheaper. BUT... if you're concerned with getting to the bottom of things faster, I'd say go for the bone scan.

I'm not sure why people are telling you to treat Stitch with kid gloves and not let him move around at all. That's contrary to what ALL the vets are saying now (now that the problem is no longer the hip, the stall rest was for the hip, right?). If he's sound without a rider, I don't see why you'd want to limit his movement, especially with fitness being an issue. I may have missed some important detail on that point.

I agree with vfx. My reason for encouraging the bone scan is that I hate to see you throw more money on various treatments, and have so many people (chiro/farrier/PT/others) all throwing various ideas at you when not one of them can answer the question of what you are treating. The bone scan may not fully answer that question -- and if you have it done, know that you may get some but not all answers -- but it might very well pinpoint exactly what is going on and tell you exactly what treatments you should be pursuing and exactly what they are addressing. For example, I would not want to spend money on shockwave without knowing what I was targeting.

I agree that keeping him moving is better than stall rest - at virtually all times through my horse's lameness issues, the vets encouraged keeping her moving lightly, and turning her out. But personally, I would not want to toss mine in a field to heal himself without having the scan done to see what it would tell me. Tossing my mare in a field was next on my list, but the scan told us exactly what our plan of action needed to be, and in our case turning her out would not have solved anything.

Good luck - I know it is frustrating, but I very much encourage you to take him back to the lameness vet and let that be the voice that directs you. Many of the others you have mentioned, to me, would be who I would want following the vet's directions, not giving the directions.

[vxf111]

I forgot to add... major jingles no matter how you decide to proceed.

[LSM1212]

Thank you all. The reason I ask for details on all the treatments that you have suggested is for information. Not necessarily to run out and do it. :D And calls will be made to find out more.

When I was last at the Lameness Specialist the first part of December, he is the one that said to wait on the bone scan. That they can be pretty inconclusive and he just didn't feel that was the right thing to do right now. And that we just needed to address what we see now and then if that didn't work, then a scan would be in order. So it is definately not "out of the question".

So... what we see is a "locked" shoulder on the left and a slight "offness" in the RH. Definate "diagonal" issue. Now why? We don't know. Most likely compensation and atrophy to a point.

But to me.... they are the 2 things that are "screaming" out. So, we are going to work on getting his shoulder "un-locked" with chiro and massage. Will take x-rays of the right hock to see if there is something going on in there (we've already ruled out stifle). And then go from there. :D

I know chiro and massage has done wonders for me in "unlocking" myself. And the cost is very low on both (actually, one is free). I'm not as concerned about the time line. I've waited this long... a few more weeks or so to give this a good shot isn't going to kill us. :lol:

I have to admit that I do feel a bit better. As we seem to be "pinpointing" it much more than in the past. It was just very "floating" and nothing was the same. He was different everyday in where he "hurt". Now we are getting the "same" everyday. To me, that's progress.

Thank you all again for the great information. And keep it coming. I am making a list of options, etc. My last resort is to just find a place for him to "kick it" for a few months and see how that goes. But want to try a few more things first and then go for the bone scan before I do that. Plus, I will need to do alot of research to find a place close to home that will bring him in 2x a day to feed, look him over, etc. since pasture board is not an option at my current farm. Plus I need to stay in my current monthly budget so cost is a factor too. And I really don't want to send him too far as I would like to be able to visit him often.

[McVillesMom]

If you haven't already found it...it's Kesmarc, with a C. The website is www.kesmarc.com :)

[Czar]

Just that in my experience with others in my barn and with those friends from outside dealing with vague on again, off again lamness that eludes diagnosis, rehab type turn out in a large pasture has let them sort of heal themselves. That includes one with a dropped hip the owner took home and turned out for a year.

As usual, I agree with findeight.

Sometimes the best thing we can do is nothing at all...time is the best healer.

[Plumcreek]

I would def have an experienced lameness vet or chiro palpate his back and see if there are any sore spots that you could X-ray. It is a cheap rule out, especially if he is worse under saddle. Your horse's diagonal symptoms are just like my mare that had the kissing spines. As she was more sore on one side of the spine than the other, she was dropping her hip on the sore side, making her stifle catch. That put more strain on the opposite shoulder which developed a tight enlarged muscle, and lameness on that leg. I even did a check ligament surgery on that front leg, because it was *slightly* clubby and was lame. After rehab time from the check ligament surgery, X-rays showed only the slightest change in clcubby angles - because that was not the issue. The shoulder muscle being strained from twisting to avoid back pain was the issue. I imagine twisting to avoid lumbar-sacral pain would also involve opposite shoulder twisting. So does he still have he dropped hip??

[LSM1212]

I would def have an experienced lameness vet or chiro palpate his back and see if there are any sore spots that you could X-ray. It is a cheap rule out, especially if he is worse under saddle. Your horse's diagonal symptoms are just like my mare that had the kissing spines. As she was more sore on one side of the spine than the other, she was dropping her hip on the sore side, making her stifle catch. That put more strain on the opposite shoulder which developed a tight enlarged muscle, and lameness on that leg. I even did a check ligament surgery on that front leg, because it was *slightly* clubby and was lame. After rehab time from the check ligament surgery, X-rays showed only the slightest change in clcubby angles - because that was not the issue. The shoulder muscle being strained from twisting to avoid back pain was the issue. I imagine twisting to avoid lumbar-sacral pain would also involve opposite shoulder twisting. So does he still have he dropped hip??

Um, yes. The Vet said the dropped hip is permanent. The "bump" will never go away. But the hip itself has healed. Vet and Chiro have done the tests on his back, etc. for soreness and issues. Nothing really comes up except for the near the shoulder area on the left and the back hip/leg area on the right that I have mentioned before. His shoulder doesn't bulge or anything. Actually just the opposite. He has more "muscle atrophy" on that shoulder. I'm not as worried about the club foot and the x-rays showed the spur, etc. and the Vet and Farrier aren't too concerned. Said that it shouldn't get worse with correct shoeing which he does get.

[onthebit]

You've probably already answered this question but are his feet in good shape? Has your vet previously mentioned navicular, club foot, etc.? Often with these different, recurring, NQR type things it is varying compensation issues we are seeing from foot pain.

You are getting bombarded with various and conflicting suggestions so I'll stop now! :)

[findeight]

I just think that you really need to get a definative answer to what may be wrong before you treat anything in any way. If Stitch fell or got cast hard enough to drop that hip, he may have strained a suspensory and it was missed in the obvious diagnosis of dropped hip and has not healed. I have seen these block sound but get worse each time the horse was ridden just as you describe, more then once and they do seem to look like a "roaming lamness". He could also have hurt soft tissue along his back-seen that as well and it defies diagnosis.

Bottom line is it may seem like 9 months is a long time but, in horse healing time from a trauma like he suffered? It's nothing.

If he were mine I would do an ultrsound on the soft tissue in all four legs and, if no tears turned up, turn him out at a rehab in a BIG pasture so he can work himself back to condition.

[LSM1212]

You've probably already answered this question but are his feet in good shape? Has your vet previously mentioned navicular, club foot, etc.? Often with these different, recurring, NQR type things it is varying compensation issues we are seeing from foot pain.

You are getting bombarded with various and conflicting suggestions so I'll stop now! :)

They are getting there. They were a mess when I got him but the kicker is... he was perfectly sound then. :D We have slowly been fixing his feet. He has a club foot on the LF. The one with the issues. The x-rays showed no navicular. Just a bone spur on his coffin bone and some arthritis in the joint. So we injected the joint. They said this is common in clubbed feet. The Vet figured that the rear problem was feet and that's why he had us shoe him in the back too (before that, it was front only).

[Boston Chicken]

I can see how all this would be confusing - heck, I am confused and it's not my horse :lol:

All we can do is support you (and ask for support for our injured horses in return :sadsmile:) no matter what you decide.

I wish I had a place to turn my horse out for a year to see what that would do, but alas, it's not possible - at least close by. He would have to tough it out - and I think he would learn to love it in time. And believe me, my horse is the most spoiled, most pampered nightmare evah :lol: But I think they all adjust and would learn to love it eventually.

My goal this year or next is to potentially move him into a much less show-oriented place and see how that helps him going forward. He'll be 14 in April and as you know, is a big horse. They age a lot harder than the little guys so I keep my eyes peeled for the right situation for him. Anywhoo...I am off topic.

Wishing you all the best. However one last plug for a bone scan :yes: I think it's time. The shoulder likely isn't "locking" on its own...among other things.

OK signing of now ;)

[LSM1212]

I just think that you really need to get a definative answer to what may be wrong before you treat anything in any way. If Stitch fell or got cast hard enough to drop that hip, he may have strained a suspensory and it was missed in the obvious diagnosis of dropped hip and has not healed. I have seen these block sound but get worse each time the horse was ridden just as you describe, more then once and they do seem to look like a "roaming lamness". He could also have hurt soft tissue along his back-seen that as well and it defies diagnosis.

Bottom line is it may seem like 9 months is a long time but, in horse healing time from a trauma like he suffered? It's nothing.

If he were mine I would do an ultrsound on the soft tissue in all four legs and, if no tears turned up, turn him out at a rehab in a BIG pasture so he can work himself back to condition.

I would have to agree with the soft tissue damage. But will add suspensory and ultrasound to the list.

I was able to speak to a friend of mine that might be able to accomodate him in a 24/7 t/o situation for as long as he needs. And it's not far from my house. And it would be cheaper than paying for a true "rehab" place. That the 24/7 t/o might be what he needs.

But first things first.... he needs his front shoe back on! The Farrier couldn't make it out today... but says she will definately tomorrow.

:winkgrin:

[LSM1212]

I can see how all this would be confusing - heck, I am confused and it's not my horse :lol:

All we can do is support you (and ask for support for our injured horses in return :sadsmile:) no matter what you decide.

I wish I had a place to turn my horse out for a year to see what that would do, but alas, it's not possible - at least close by. He would have to tough it out - and I think he would learn to love it in time. And believe me, my horse is the most spoiled, most pampered nightmare evah :lol: But I think they all adjust and would learn to love it eventually.

My goal this year or next is to potentially move him into a much less show-oriented place and see how that helps him going forward. He'll be 14 in April and as you know, is a big horse. They age a lot harder than the little guys so I keep my eyes peeled for the right situation for him. Anywhoo...I am off topic.

Wishing you all the best. However one last plug for a bone scan :yes: I think it's time. The shoulder likely isn't "locking" on its own...among other things.

OK signing of now ;)

Yep, I am at the point of being so confused that my head is spinning. :eek:

If you see my previous thread, I too, would have a tough time finding him a place that he can be out 24/7 with shelter but still be brought in for feedings, etc. And it being close enough to home for me to visit and "care" for him. But I may have a lead... and she is a fellow COTHer that I found out only lives about 15 minutes from me (and works at the same company I do just a different building). :lol:

I know, I know.... re:bone scan. The Lameness Vet did say that if what he did didn't work, that would be a next step. But I think he's going to want to wait just a little bit longer to see if what we have already done, has had any affect. I don't want to keep just "piling" things on w/o giving the current thing a chance.

It just makes the murky water.... even murkier. :D

[Kikki]

If you haven't already found it...it's Kesmarc, with a C. The website is www.kesmarc.com (http://www.kesmarc.com) :)

THANK YOU! Now that you have it there, it looks right ;) I looked up the info and was fixing to post the phone # - we even had it with a K in the roladex at the farm :rolleyes: