Wholly cow...$100K horse??

[twnkltoz]

Ok, I've been wondering something for a while...how does one buy a horse that costs $20K...$100K...$500K??? Are these people just so rich that they can just write a check? Do you take out a personal loan...a second on your house, what?? I know, it's gauche to ask about money matters, but this is beyond me!! of course, my horse cost less than one paycheck...

[ExJumper]

they write a check. then they write another check for the commission!

:)

ahh... what a life to have...

[Aggie4Bar]

The buy them the same way they buy their private planes and yachts. ;)

[abrant]

LoL...

Money might not be able to buy happiness... but it can buy really nice horses.

Wait... that's happiness? Right?

~Adrienne
Sometimes rider of the part-time pasture potato... the once $100k weanling... now just big and dumb Affable http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/adriennebrant/affabletrot1.jpg

[TBXCFan]

Or they raise money by forming a partnership and/or teaming up with a sponsor, if they are a BNR.

If they aren't a BNR, I'd guess Aggie4Bar has the right answer... ;)

[Hopeful Hunter]

Personally, the MOST expensive horse I've ever bought was $5k -- from insurance settlement money -- and he was a disaster.

But, I know people who have purchased mid-5 figure horses. One I know took a personal loan to do so; one had the money from making a horse up and selling it.

I wouldn't, but that's a matter of personal choice. For those that can afford to write the check, more power to them, I hope they enjoy the purchase. For those who take loans, ditto. For those who make up their own - I feel your pain ;-)!

[flshgordon]

Hey I'm still reeling from the poll in the dressage forum asking about young rider horse costs. The bottom answer was something like 50K to 100K. All the way up to 350K. Someone's trainer in that thread actually suggested it would take 300K+ to find her a suitable YR horse. For 300K that horse better be able to do laundry, clean tack, drive the trailer and pick the winning lotto number for me!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Goodyfourshoes!]

edit

[twnkltoz]

That's the thread that really got me going!

[Roxy SM]

A friend of mine went to Quebec to try horses this summer. While at a very BNR's barn, there was a BNT there trying a horse priced at $1.2 million for a client of his to show in the Jr. Jumpers. I believe they bought the horse as well!

[AstonMartin]

Its really quite simple, you sell your body, and deal drugs....or pull an A-N.Smith and marry a rich bagillionaire and buy all your horses before his son sues to get back the estate...... You may not even have to leave a horse show to be successful at the first 2....(JOKING!)

[CANTERSoIL]

Ok, I've been wondering something for a while...how does one buy a horse that costs $20K...$100K...$500K???

I have a $250,000 horse and I'll tell you how to get one - you wait until they have "flunked out" of their intended discipline. :lol: Then you get him for $1! :winkgrin:

Here's my $100,000 yearling, $250,000 2 y/o..... lifetime earnings on the track $39,615. :cool: He is, of course, now priceless :yes:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/slowtb/moregrain.jpg

[IFG]

CANTERSoIL, you have me beat. My horse only sold for $55,000 as a yearling.

[mickeydoodle]

what you do is you go to school, you get an advanced degree with honors, you work really really really really hard in your career, you pay back your student loans, your fund your retirement plan, then you buy the horse of your dreams with a check. It is the reward for really busting your a@@ working 100hrs per week.

[county]

Its no differant then buying anything else and you certainly don't need to be rich it just depends on whats more important to you. I've paid much more for a horse then I ever have for a car or pick up. The horses make us money cars and trucks don't.

[Coup De Des]

My TB sold for $365 000.00 ;)

..... He was given away for zero dollars at the end of his dismal career.

[naters]

There are GOOD and inexpensive horses out there. You just have to invest the time to look, and have a good eye (or bring someone with a good eye to go with you!)

Several horses at the farm I am at were bought for 500, 1000, or 1500 dollars.

Now they are on the market, and sold for 20,000 plus.

[naters]

My TB sold for $365 000.00 ;)

..... He was given away for zero dollars at the end of his dismal career.

I hope that he spoke four languages???!!!! :)

[JustJump]

<<what you do is you go to school, you get an advanced degree with honors, you work really really really really hard in your career, you pay back your student loans, your fund your retirement plan, then you buy the horse of your dreams with a check. It is the reward for really busting your a@@ working 100hrs per week.>>

A good plan, but rarely one that will allow you buy into the horse market to the tune of 100K+. It would qualify you for a nice mortgage, though.

The ordinary rider is seldom in need of a 100K+ mount. But in a pinch, one can be leased.

[DairyQueen2049]

Went to school, etc. Why can't we??

Sure beats the heck out of marrying for $$$ IMHO. :winkgrin:

*I* married for a great love life. MUCH better then $$$$.

[Riva]

It amazes me no end to hear people buy these 6 figure and up horses! One of the biggest problems I find with it - aside from the money - is once you buy a horse at that price, you can never really treat it as a horse. You have to treat it as an investment.

I would much rather spend less and treat them like horses. The most expensive horse I have was $3500 and she isn't even rideable :eek: She is my broodmare. At least maybe I can breed my dreamhorse ;)

[Reynard Ridge]

It's all in your priorities.

Some people make their living doing horses and spend money to buy nice breeding stock - for some people it is important to do well in competition and the spend the money to get the horse that will do it. You can be happy locally and get away with spending not so much, but if you want to compete nationally in just about any discipline and be really competitive, it takes money.

As for getting money - some are born with it, some earn it and the rare few win the lottery (or find a Van Gogh in the attic). You CAN make a fortune as an individual. Have a great idea, start a company, etc. But it does happen to the rare, dedicated few - mostly people who wouldn't have time to ride after they blew their hundred grand on a horse. :lol:

Personally, if I were as wealthy as Bill Gates, I still wouldn't spend $100k on a horse. I'm not a breeder and I'm not all that competitive. I like horses for mental health reasons - and in my opinion, seven hundred bucks was all I needed to spend to fix my mental health issues. :cool:

[mayhew]

what you do is you go to school, you get an advanced degree with honors, you work really really really really hard in your career, you pay back your student loans, your fund your retirement plan, then you buy the horse of your dreams with a check. It is the reward for really busting your a@@ working 100hrs per week.

LOL. You're a funny one, Mickeydoodle!

[J Swan]

You know - there is an article in this weeks issue of COTH that addresses this issue a bit - and also goes on to talk about why the Europeans are kicking our butt at world class competitions. David O'Connor wrote it (I loff him)


Hey I'm still reeling from the poll in the dressage forum asking about young rider horse costs. The bottom answer was something like 50K to 100K. All the way up to 350K. Someone's trainer in that thread actually suggested it would take 300K+ to find her a suitable YR horse. For 300K that horse better be able to do laundry, clean tack, drive the trailer and pick the winning lotto number for me!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[War Admiral]

I actually know a Saddlebred trainer (no names here) who not only encourages clients to take out a bank loan/2nd mortgage on their house, but refers them to the manager of a local bank! :eek:

Not for me, thanks. I make my own.

[MareForceOne]

To honestly answer the OPs question, most often a horse in this price range is purchased through either a bank certified check or by wire transfer of the funds from the buyer's to the seller's bank account.

[Briggsie]

Sorry, no offense to Saddlebred fans...but Saddlebred and big bucks, in my world....do not go together.

I paid 2k for my oldy General, bought him when he was ten. He is 18 now. I paid 3500 for briggs. He was worth every penny IMHO. I cannot even place a value on him now, because to me, he is priceless, and won't be going anywhere forever. Neither of mine will.

I know someone (an idiot might I add), who bought a friesian yearling for 35k. What a rip.....the horse does not even track up.....oh well. She was an ammy, and it was her first horse. Sadly, I don't think she learned her lesson. In her feable mind, the horse is worth at least a hundred K, and she really believes that. Whatever. You cannot place a price tag on form to function, movement, etc.....A horse like Putine (sp??), IMO, she was worth every penny if I had the money...but a "horse mill" (like puppy mill) bred fancy fantasy horse that has pitiful movement? not a snowballs chance in hell.

[abrant]

Go to college...

Ok. Check.

Work 100 hours a week...

Ok. Check.

Be dedicated...

Ok. Check.

DAMN IT. I still only have $250 in my checking account... You people are total liars...

Truth is: some people work hard their entire life and give everything to their job and don't have 100k to show for it. My parents are these kinds of people. They have more work ethic than anyone should, but they still lived paycheck to paycheck.

No more posts that say "different priorities!" "work hard!" because that's NOT how life in America normally works. Blue collar America describes people who work HARD and never really get ahead. They are the majority of our country.

I know for a fact that different priorities won't help me. LoL. If I decide a horse is more important than groceries... that still won't help me come up with $100k <g>.

I was so excited when I was a kid because my parents said, with my grandma's help, we could spend $3,000 on a horse, which was a HUGE amount to me... since my first horse cost $500 :)

~Adrienne

[War Admiral]

Sorry, no offense to Saddlebred fans...but Saddlebred and big bucks, in my world....do not go together.

Then with all due respect, you need to get out more. The *average* show Saddlebred is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more expensive than the average hunter, and a genuine WC contender in a big division can run close to a million.

[flshgordon]

a genuine WC contender in a big division can run close to a million.

WHAT?????:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

OK now we've just gotten crazy. Who the hell would pay 1 million for a horse and more importantly why? At that point there's no return on the investment whatsoever. Even if it's a stud, it would have to breed hundreds of mares nonstop, win every big money championship available for its entire life and never have a bump, scrape or NQR day in its life.....that's assuming you start all this at age 1!

[MeredithTX]

That's funny that you should post this because my husband and I were just discussing this very topic the other day. I was bored at work and browsing Dreamhorse looking for the most expensive horse I could find. There was a dressage horse listed for 250K, and I could not figure out how someone could just buy that. Is there even enough room on the check to write that out?

[retsasid]

I've seen some fancy horses come into my barn through trades (and maybe some extra on one side: a green pony + some $ for a child/jr htr, or a made local show horse for what the other person perceived to be "way too much horse".. this mare turned out to be quit the champion in just about everything.) Other than that, buying it through a business (LLC) with a check, stocks, sharing ownership...asking Mommy or Daddy, or money left in a will, or savings accounts.

[War Admiral]

WHAT?????:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

OK now we've just gotten crazy. Who the hell would pay 1 million for a horse and more importantly why?

In that respect, it really is the same as H/J. The price depends on how badly an ammy owner wants to win at Louisville... ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that a really top-class High A/O horse who is a genuine packer (meaning, ready for indoors NOW with the most brain-dead rider imaginable on its back) will fetch much the same, no?

[Lavender Menace]

That's funny that you should post this because my husband and I were just discussing this very topic the other day. I was bored at work and browsing Dreamhorse looking for the most expensive horse I could find. There was a dressage horse listed for 250K, and I could not figure out how someone could just buy that. Is there even enough room on the check to write that out?

You'd have to get one of those extra-large presentation checks from Ed McMahon. Wonder if one of those would fit through the drive-thru window at the bank? ;)

[moonriverfarm]

The deal is, mmany people oput there can't or don't want to start from scratch (like I have to do in order to still have my farm!) with a failed racehorse once valued at $300,000.....they want a made horse with fancy trainers attached and the status that comes with that. Most are already in the high tax bracket and have money to spend on their dream - whatever - plane, boat, horse, house.
My most expensive horse purchased was a $3500 steady eddie with weird confirmation and a heart of gold. He's my forever horse and will cart my grandkids around a course one day so he was worth every dime.
But i have not paid more than $1000 for any others, and many were much nicer horses....but all were disappointments on the track and came to me knowing NOTHING. I'd rather put in the work and get the satisfaction that comes with bringing one along. To me that's the fun part, not sitting on a horse someone else made. but hey, I'm also NOT in the high tax bracket!!!!

[findeight]

You know - there is an article in this weeks issue of COTH that addresses this issue a bit - and also goes on to talk about why the Europeans are kicking our butt at world class competitions. David O'Connor wrote it (I loff him)

Yeah I read that too...he says young riders should buy multiple 4 year old horses because 75% will wash out and they need to go thru alot to find the good ones, then train them to whatever level they top out at and sell them to finance the good ones.
He also said our riders do not sacrifice enough of their private lives, implying they need to devote everything to the horse career and also need to go live in England as he did.

David, I love you but.....where do you expect people to get the money for all those 4y/o horses, a place to keep and train them and to go live abroad?

I think we all know the problem...and it all comes down to money.

[EasterEgg]

In that respect, it really is the same as H/J. The price depends on how badly an ammy owner wants to win at Louisville... ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that a really top-class High A/O horse who is a genuine packer (meaning, ready for indoors NOW with the most brain-dead rider imaginable on its back) will fetch much the same, no?

It seems that way... I still haven't really recovered from reading a post on here by a certain hunter rider about her friend who thought that her horse was worth $400,000 where in reality it was "only" worth $250,000 at most...

Don't get me wrong, people here pay stupid amounts of money for horses too (£10,000 + for a show pony will always seem ridiculous to me), but the sums of money discussed on this board, on the dressage and h/j forums in particular, always tend to make me go :eek:

How the other half live eh? ;)

[Longspot]

I once had a trainer try to sell me a 5 figure horse, and when I said I couldn't afford it she said she would accept payments.

How common is that? First and only time I ever heard it! It seems pretty risky.

[War Admiral]

I once had a trainer try to sell me a 5 figure horse, and when I said I couldn't afford it she said she would accept payments.

How common is that? First and only time I ever heard it! It seems pretty risky.

Some trainers will accept payments from a known entity, e.g. a rider w/ one or more horses already in training w/ them who is known for paying bills in a timely fashion. But I would suspect the paperwork is pretty detailed.

[17handtb]

$100K is nothing in the racing world. My TB sold for that as a 2-year-old. I love to tell him I got him at a DEEEEP discount. :D

Maybe sellers take American Express Black??

[hey101]

$100K is nothing in the racing world. My TB sold for that as a 2-year-old. I love to tell him I got him at a DEEEEP discount. :D

Maybe sellers take American Express Black??
:lol: :lol: :lol:
My boy sold for a quarter mil as a yearling... I got him a few years later for 99.9% off! :D My mother would be happy- she never buys anything that's not on sale. :cool:

[Glimmerglass]

Just for recreational comparison with spending, I'll point to another horse of sorts - the prancing horses from Italy:
2005 marked Ferrari North America’s 13th consecutive year of sales growth. The year ended with approximately 1,550 units retailed with an increase of 8%

The company offered in 2006 just two car lines from which there are a myriad of options. The cheapest was the 2006 Ferrari F430 with an MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) Range of $169,685.00 - $227,000.00 plus as destination charge of $1,850.00; then there was the 2006 Ferrari 612 Scaglietti MSRP range: $250,509.00 - $262,634.00 plus a destination charge of $1,950.00.

There is still a waiting list to actually get a new 430 Ferrari, but clearly each year over 1,000 people won't bat an eye to plunk down $169k plus for one. That is just the one-time price, and then there is servicing, insurance, club events, etc.

Obviously other marques exists with Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Bentley, Bugatti, Porsche, etc all having similar $100k plus offerings which all have been selling like mad.

Point being that a lot of new and old wealth out there which can afford to buy weekend exotics as well as pleasure horses for $100k +; of which such a horse isn't expected to jump in a Grand Prix but rather just become another trophy asset.

[IFG]

Must be why my cousin who bought his daughter a YR horse, also bought himself a Ferrari.

Me, I like my $3000 OTTB (down from $55,000 as noted above).

[Lauren!]

I have a $250,000 horse and I'll tell you how to get one - you wait until they have "flunked out" of their intended discipline. :lol: Then you get him for $1! :winkgrin:

Here's my $100,000 yearling, $250,000 2 y/o..... lifetime earnings on the track $39,615. :cool: He is, of course, now priceless :yes:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/slowtb/moregrain.jpg

My TB sold for $365 000.00 ;)

..... He was given away for zero dollars at the end of his dismal career.

Yup :) Make friends with people in other diciplines and take their rejects.

I don't have any close friends who've paid six figures for thier horses. I do have quite a few friends who have made up their fancy show horses from fancy babies or nice greenies.

People who buy horses for a lot of money either have the money to spend, or they take out a loan. To each his own... I wouldn't have an issue with a friend or family member financing a horse provided they has the means to repay the loan and kept the horse well insured until he was fully paid off. I can't say I would do it myself, but then again, I'm shopping for a used truck to tow with b/c I can't stand to see what the payments would be on a new one! ($32,000 MSRP pickup is much much much more than my horse cost. Much more than all three of them together actually :) And I can't even ride a truck!)

[Briggsie]

Then with all due respect, you need to get out more. The *average* show Saddlebred is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more expensive than the average hunter, and a genuine WC contender in a big division can run close to a million.

War admiral....I know they are way more expensive...I was just saying, In my mind...i don't see the value. I just have never been in love with the breed. And the only reason I even brought that up...was because someone on here mentioned that they know a SB breeder/trainer who recommends they finance one of their horses. I know their are people who love them...whatever, to each their own.

[flshgordon]

In that respect, it really is the same as H/J. The price depends on how badly an ammy owner wants to win at Louisville... ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that a really top-class High A/O horse who is a genuine packer (meaning, ready for indoors NOW with the most brain-dead rider imaginable on its back) will fetch much the same, no?

:eek: :eek: :eek: I obviously don't run in those circles, but honestly I thought one of the really top hunters would run into the 100K mark possibly 200K but no more. 1 million is news to me...not that that means anything :winkgrin:

Any other Hunter riders want to weigh in here?

[Mayaty02]

I think you have to be independently wealthy to afford a $100k+ horse - but I also agree that that unfortunately really doesn't buy you much these days! When I was showing in big eq almost 18 years ago one of my barnmates' father bought her THE eq horse - had one the Maclay finals a few years before - for $100K and I remember thinking that was a ridiculous amount but hey he was about as "made" as a made horse could be. I bet you can barely get a green horse for $100K nowadays!

[retsasid]

Pre-green horse that wins @ A and AA level: 750k & rising
Green conf horse (pins)/adult htr (wins) at A and AA level: 500k & rising

It depends on how the horse is doing in shows, how big the BNT is that's training and riding it, etc.

[Hidden]

Wow.. I just saw an ad for $350K horse (Hunter) and I was wondering if the horse is the big expense or the keeping the horse. Full training board and all those shows/transport, special saddles, etc. Couldn't that run up to 100K /year? If you do Florida etc.. chase points whatever? I wish I had a money tree.. if I could stop working I bet I would finally be able to get to spend enough time at the barn!

[Madison]

What is expensive to one person is nothing to another - what a $1000 horse can be to one person's budget, a $100,000 horse may be to another person's budget (or even less noticeable!). There are just simply a lot of people who can afford it, whether through family money, sale of companies, or hard work in their own career, etc . . . Cost of horses is all relative to what the individual or family in question can afford. What is a stretch for one person can be pocket change to another.

And, it is absolutely true that what a horse is worth/will sell for can depend a lot on whose barn it is standing in!

[TripleRipple]

Then with all due respect, you need to get out more. The *average* show Saddlebred is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more expensive than the average hunter, and a genuine WC contender in a big division can run close to a million.

No kidding. I was told I would have to now pony up at least low to mid six figures to be "somewhat" competitive in my area. And that is probably accurate. So I probably will choose not to be very competitive, lol...

In my case, I can do that. However, once I thought about it hard, there is no horse sport I love that much, seriously. None. I won't pay it for an asb, or for a hunter, or a dressage horse, or whatever. Mostly because even at that level, there are MORE horses out there worth even MORE, and with even more talent...so what did you buy? Probably the same low ribbon you can achieve if you hang in slower circles, or just wait for the big spenders to screw up every now and then. At least in disciplines where you are judged against others.

Less so if the sport is endurance, jumping, barrel racing...you are shooting for a time or no jumps missed, but not just doing a few gaits and hoping to be more brilliant than the others, and hoping the judge likes the way your horse "goes" while he does the gaits better than the others. You can just piss money down a drain hoping to excell in something that is part beauty pageant (and I mean that in a good way, because sometimes it comes down to exactly that)...

[TripleRipple]

And sometimes it is about working hard or saving your pennies or deciding your priorities, and sometimes those things matter no one whit. Life is fairly uneven and sketchy about rewarding these things. My parents could never buy such horses, even if they wished. And yes, they worked harder and longer and had no bad vices to spend a dime on, but that absolutely doesn't guarantee wealth and untold riches.

I know others who are lazy scheming sods who by trade and trick and some just by pure utterly stupid dumb luck/good fortune through no effort of their own have hit the life lottery. Those are like watching a train wreck in progress after the bucks roll in.

Life is random.

And maybe I am just getting old and acting like an old fart about this - nowdays, I can't believe how many million dollar homes exist (I still remember when my city had NO million dollar homes, and exactly where I saw the very first one offered for that. It is like chump change now in my state, and in several areas. Same with horses in many disciplines).

[War Admiral]

However, once I thought about it hard, there is no horse sport I love that much, seriously.

Ever since this thread got started I've been thinking about what kind of horse it would actually take to get me to fork over a million smackeroos (if I had that kind of money, which I don't). For me, it comes down more to successful individual horses. For example, I'd have paid that kind of money for an Idle Dice (jumper) or ASB stallions Phi Slama Jama or Periaptor, no problem. Short of having a horse like THAT - a horse whose name will live in history forever - I don't think I'd do it.

[LetsRide]

Ok, I've been wondering something for a while...how does one buy a horse that costs $20K...$100K...$500K??? Are these people just so rich that they can just write a check? Do you take out a personal loan...a second on your house, what?? I know, it's gauche to ask about money matters, but this is beyond me!! of course, my horse cost less than one paycheck...


I always wondered more about some of those people that go out spend say $3,500 on a horse. Then they pour more than $35,000 into it over a few years (board, shoes, supplements, vet, training, showing, ect). Most of those horses are not ever going to be worth close to the $38,5000+ that those people probably have invested. Yes a few of those do turn out quite well; though most still end up as $3,500 horses (but with a lot of professional training and show experience).

;)

[Mayaty02]

I always wondered more about some of those people that go out spend say $3,500 on a horse. Then they pour more than $35,000 into it over a few years (board, shoes, supplements, vet, training, showing, ect). Most of those horses are not ever going to be worth close to the $38,5000+ that those people probably have invested. Yes a few of those do turn out quite well; though most still end up as $3,500 horses (but with a lot of professional training and show experience).

;)

To your point - my horse cost $4500 many many years ago (21 maybe?) and we did ultimately sell him for $30K 5 years later but yeah when you factor in the cost of board and showing...somehow it just doesn't add up :) But that being said, that is why I am going to get a well bred baby and keep her in my backyard, then train and sell so I can afford to buy another! I can't even afford a horse who is broke to ride :)

[SuperSpike]

I always wondered more about some of those people that go out spend say $3,500 on a horse. Then they pour more than $35,000 into it over a few years (board, shoes, supplements, vet, training, showing, ect). Most of those horses are not ever going to be worth close to the $38,5000+ that those people probably have invested. Yes a few of those do turn out quite well; though most still end up as $3,500 horses (but with a lot of professional training and show experience).

;)

I agree. I guess a lot of it depends on the money that someone has upfront. In the whole scheme of things, the cost of the horse is so dismal compared to the price of owning and competing. :yes:

[AHorseSomeDay]

I wish I had that money! I would even like to be able to afford to keep a horse, much less buy one. :D

I know someone whose jumpers cost well over $200,000. This same person thinks that $250,000 is not a lot of money. :eek: In that case, if it's not a lot of money to this person, give it to me. I am sure it won't be missed. :lol: The same person told me that people are paying over a million for A/O Jumpers and this person trains with a BNT.

I do wish I was rich but don't we all. :sigh:

[2TBs]

A friend took out a second on her house and then insured the horse.

[2Horse]

I will probably never buy a really expensive horse. The most I've ever spent on a horse (not counting stud/vet fees) is $1500. The best horse I ever bought was $500 as a yearling. The only way I can have expensive horses is to breed them. :yes:

[Trixie]

I always wondered more about some of those people that go out spend say $3,500 on a horse. Then they pour more than $35,000 into it over a few years (board, shoes, supplements, vet, training, showing, ect). Most of those horses are not ever going to be worth close to the $38,5000+ that those people probably have invested. Yes a few of those do turn out quite well; though most still end up as $3,500 horses (but with a lot of professional training and show experience).

Most of the time, in these cases, it's not done as an "investment" but rather just because people enjoy bringing along the horses. And then that $35K isn't in one chunk, either, which can make it a lot less painful.

[jilltx]

It's all in your priorities.

Some people make their living doing horses and spend money to buy nice breeding stock -


:eek:
It's a filthy, sick, twisted place in my mind. :lol: RR are you writing "Swollen Member" books now???

To get this train back on track, I have only purchased 2 horses in my lifetime with money. ALL of the others (there have been 5 others) have been freebies with varying ailments or issues. What can I say, I'm a sucker for a hard-luck case.

[Beverley]

Y'all are reminding me when everyone thought it was something when Calypso sold for $350k 25ish years ago...THAT for a GELDING?

I just did the math, and the 9 horses I've owned dating back to 1965 have cost a total of $8850, ranging from '0' for three of them to $4500 and worth every penny for an anybody could ride/hunt/show quarter horse. Only other one I've paid 4 figures for is present young appendix qh, $2500 and another anybody can ride fellow.

But then, being born into a non horsey family, to parents who lived thru the Depression/WWII (one immigrating post-war) ordeals, it was pretty much do it yourself and be grateful for whatever horse you get and train it to do what you want to do. Happily, most were great, but I've definitely seen that higher price does not guarantee better quality.

Some years back, a neighbor who had lost his dressage horse asked me to go look at a dressage prospect with him one day, and I did. 3 yo, bay, nothing fancy, 30 days under saddle, and they wanted $12k for her. I jokingly told him that he could have my one-eyed tb, which he was riding while between horses, for 'half price,' or $6k, since he only had one eye! (I'd paid $750 for him). He scoffed, but a few days later he came over to my house and said, 'Well, now I know the difference between a $1500 horse and a $15,000 horse.' When I asked what that difference was, he said, 'When the $15,000 horse tries to kill you, its owner/trainer/manager screams bloody murder at you, because *you* are a lousy rider and have obviously done something to upset the horse!':cool:

Ironically, he ended up paying $18k for an 18 hand 3 yo, all the way from across the country. Nice enough horse, but I wouldn't have paid that for him. But, as they say, a horse is worth what you can get somebody to pay for it.

[Reynard Ridge]

I always wondered more about some of those people that go out spend say $3,500 on a horse. Then they pour more than $35,000 into it over a few years (board, shoes, supplements, vet, training, showing, ect). Most of those horses are not ever going to be worth close to the $38,5000+ that those people probably have invested. Yes a few of those do turn out quite well; though most still end up as $3,500 horses (but with a lot of professional training and show experience).

;)

Wait a minute! But that's the cost of doing business! No horse is cheap when you figure out what you spend in board and farrier and vet and lessons and tack and and and. The people who are spending 100k on a horse are spending $25-20-40k a year to keep them - what with training fees and showing fees and all the other stuff. And sure, some of that appreciates as the value of the horse, goes up, but let's face it, most of us do not recoup what we put in. Horses are a HOBBY for many people here.

So, yeah, my $700 Pony costs as much to keep as if I had gone out and spend $35,000 on a really, really nice event horse. But, frankly, I wouldn't be having any better time doing what I am doing. I might be jumping HIGHER but it wouldn't be any FUNNER. :D

And here's the kicker - while the $700 Pony will never be worth $35k, she will provide a lifetime of fun and enjoyment for me and whoever else in this world I decide to bless with her presence. Priceless, people, priceless!

(And I will studiously ignore jilltx :lol: :lol: )

[friesiandriver]

hmm seems to me if you can't write the check(ie you need to finance, go to bank ect), you can't really afford the horse. Lots of things can happen to a horse. We all know it isn't really a great investment, ESPECIALLY a horse that costs you half a mil. Most of those horses are not going to be paying themselves off unless they are racehorses or successful stallions. So when you say " these people are so rich" I don't really agree. If you can write the check and it does not disrupt anything in your life, then you are doing really well.If not, then either riding is the MOST important thing in your life or you really like to take big risks. Wether or not you want to is totally a matter of interests and priorities.

[friesiandriver]

As for the kids that need 300 k horses to compete. If they are that good, I should hope they would be able to pick out a prospect that has little or not training. You would think they would plan that one out and simply invest in training and save themselves a whole lot of money. Or, heck if they are that talented, why not do some of the work themselves. I don't really see the what is so incredible about saying you can ride a "made" horse. I think it would be a great LEARNING tool, but people who NEED a 300k horse are obviously at the higher levels of competition, in which case some riding capability should exist other than just being able to sit on a horse and make it go through it's movements ect

[wlrottge]

If you take it one step further back (breeding), you can just as easily boggle the mind. The stud fee for my OTTB was 150k! (His dad produced 5 breeders cup winners and his dam threw, 1) Now, there are a couple of horses at that price and one or two higher (Storm Cat at 500k). Now, I know the people that "buy" the stallion services wheel and deal and probably don't actually write a check for that amount, but.. still... somewhere that value changes hands.

It's a gamble to buy any horse, even for $1, but to start that rich, the stakes are even higher. My boy "started at 150k" for the stud fee, ended up at the Keenland select sale and went for 90k... well, they lost right there! Then he only won like 18k on the track!! After he was deemed to dangerous to keep intact, we purchased him for 10% of his winnings. It is nice of the race tracks to provide us with a good source of quality horses!!

Now my wife's 2,500 dollar TB event horse does very well for her. Would a 250k horse do her better? Possibly, but... then the onus would be on her to make her horse worth the 250k we spent. There was NO way we were going to do that, so what did we do? We spent quite a bit more than the combined price of our other two to buy a flashy untrained 2.5 yo and he'll only be worth what we paid for him in the end b/c as of now he's NOT for sale ;-)

I guess it comes down to what you want to do in many ways. If you want to win big, you have to spend big in one way or another. A LOT of money, or a LOT of time/training... which essentially equals money, so either way, us "normies" end up broke ;-) But IMHO, it would make no sense for anyone to spend that kind of cash on a horse just to do local or lower level shows, which, I don't think anyone here was implying.

[archieflies]

It sounds pretty riddiculous to buy a $100,00 horse, but when you think about it, there are a TON of people (not me for sure! but a good number) that are just high up in their businesses... I mean, I saw on TV not long ago that the average CEO was making over a million a year... So you get a good upper-management job, get a $150,000 - $200,000 a year (hey, the prez makes $400,000)... If I made $150,000, I'd buy a $100,000 horse every year... because how many people really *need* that much just to live on? You'd have to find something silly to spend it on. :) Just being a teacher though won't get me there... but I can see how it's done.

[atr]

I don't see a whole lot of difference between financing a car and financing a horse--both present equal risks from the point of view of getting "totalled." No doubt those high dollar horses are insured up the whazoo.

I don't see anyone getting their knickers in a knot about someone spending $50K on a truck.

I've always had cheap horses. Last year, I inherited some money from my grandmother. I spent a chunk of it on a nice horse that was way out of my normal price range, but nowhere near the range some of you are talking about. You know what, he IS more talented, moves better, has a better brain, and I haven't had to undo a bunch of neuroses and bad training as I have done in the past with the projects. It's truly refreshing--and worth something to me--to have an uncomplicated ride.

Life's too damned short and you can't take it with you.

[Perfect Pony]

If I made $150,000, I'd buy a $100,000 horse every year... because how many people really *need* that much just to live on? You'd have to find something silly to spend it on.

Well as someone with a household income in that range, I can tell you that at 150k a year I had a hell of a time buying my 8k horse.

150k a year, minus more than 40% in taxes/ss/etc, minus 401k contribution, minus mortgage, utilities, property taxes, insurance, yada yada yada. There is very little left over at the end of it all.

One would need at least a 300k a year salary to be able to afford to pay cash for a 100k horse IMO.

[c5rose]

Well, from my own personal experience:

When Mr. Clinton was in office, tech stocks were HOT HOT HOT. I did fairly well, and I bought a $35K nut from Holland that I ended up selling at a decent loss because I became afraid of him after being thrown.

Then the market went DOWN DOWN DOWN and all my $ turned to mush.

Before that, I could NEVER afford to buy a horse like that. He had great bloodlines and was a great mover, but honestly, all one needs to do is look around alittle and not be impulsive. There are inexpensive quality horses out there.

[CBoylen]

:eek: :eek: :eek: I obviously don't run in those circles, but honestly I thought one of the really top hunters would run into the 100K mark possibly 200K but no more. 1 million is news to me...not that that means anything :winkgrin:
Any other Hunter riders want to weigh in here?
For a really top hunter that range would be below average. Not to say that one can't be found showing at the top semi-successfully at that price, but you'd be looking at a compromise somewhere. Of course those capable of showing successfully at that level can sometimes be found for very low prices, but if they're already winning that's just not the case.
Many hunters are frequently sold in the very upper six figures, and there have been quite a few rumors of some crossing the million dollar mark. I imagine some of those rumors are true, although I couldn't say for sure. There are some that can't be bought at any price.
Top jumpers often cross into the $1-2 million range.

I had an interesting conversation with a saddlebred competitor at Harrisburg one year, and it did seem like costs of the disciplines and horses were very comparable. From what limited experience I've had with dressage competitors that seems to be the case there as well.

[physical.energy]

Dressage..... 1.5M for the last one I was with in EU.

[TheCoppertop]

This is an interesting thread.

I can see a racehorse being worth big bucks but geeze, 3, 4, 500k for a show horse? You could buy a really nice 5-10k horse and pay someone a full time salary of 50k/yr for 3 years to train it into a dream horse and still not have 200k in it.

Must be nice to be able to write checks like that!!

[hundredacres]

At least the horses that cost that much are actually doing something...so you know what you're getting. I am more baffled at the stud fees to bring some TB's into the world...for instance Storm Cats stud fee is $500,000. Last I knew Smarty Jones was fetching $110,000. And there aren't a hell of a lot of race horses that even break the $100,000 earnings mark. It doesn't even make sense to me. I cannot fathom how that money can ever be returned because there are only so many Derby winners.....are even stakes winners...winners period.

An example:

My OTTB was sired by a stud called Dehere, for $65,000. He sold at Keenland for $75,000 (bargain basement) as a yearling and earned something like $65,000 in 6 races before he broke down at 3 or 4 years. I'm pretty sure he was in the hole by then since he had the best trainers and stayed at the best facilities his first 3 years. So how in the world can anyone pay a stud fee of $500,000 and be considered sane? Thats just CRAZY.

There's a free Storm cat gelding at New Vocations right now, BTW. Amazing.

[Aggie4Bar]

The buy them the same way they buy their private planes and yachts.i didn't read the whole thread, but i don't think it's fair to put everyone with a nice horse into a category like that....My comment had nothing to do with nice horses. It had to do with 6-figure horses. How do people buy 6-figure horses? The same way they purchase the other luxeries in their life: cash, check, etc. There are plenty of nice horses selling at much lower prices, but the OP's question wasn't about buying nice horses.

[sid]

The prices that will be paid in the h/j world is new to me and was FLOORED when a trainer/rider with a family selling/brokering business in show hunters offered me $100K for my VERY green 4yr old Argosy gelding she was riding (and I plan to have lightly shown next year) for a client of theirs in CA

My jaw nearly dropped to the floor! What stymied me later was to find out later from a person I trust dearly, and who is well educated and active in h/j circles (who knows this trainer and the family as well), told me that if they offered $100K, he was probably worth $200K.

Granted, coming from a dressage background I'm still learning about what h/j people look for. I knew that h/j breeders see something in Argosy for their sport that I am not yet educated enough to discern beyond their movement for u/l dressage and jumping. While I'm really happy with what we're starting to see in the "Argosy's" that are finally becoming of riding age, oddly, instead of feeling complimented, my response was..."you've got to be kidding"!

What's even crazier, is that I won't sell him. I want to control his showing career and protect him from being run into the ground from those that may have so much $$ that horses are "disposable". Can't even think about going there.

This h/j venue is a whole different world than where I come from...yikes!

[JH]

I've worked with quite a few very expensive horses, including a $100,000 pony. When horses reach that level of value, it is usually because they are top athletes and have proven themselves. I've seen allot of very expensive horses imported from over seas, especially from Germany.

A good solid beautiful, bombproof field hunter that is fine with hounds will easily fetch $25,000 - $50,000.

If you are looking for a grand prix horse that has proven itself in competition, expect to pay allot. Some individuals are very serious competitors and riding is their passion. They are successful in there business ventures, and can afford to invest in their dream. Top athletes of most sports usually require the best equipment. It is true that many people have found inexpensive horses that they have done very well with, and one can certainly debate that some riders simply want to buy their way into the ribbons, and I know of instances where that would seem to be the case. But if a top show barn buys a $100,000 show jumper for their head trainer to ride in the show circuit, that is a wise investment, because their trainer is a representative of the stable, and any barn with a trainer who has achieved a high status, will attract a clientele with high ambitions, and that is part of a sound business plan for a show barn.

[Lisa Cook]

IIf I made $150,000, I'd buy a $100,000 horse every year... because how many people really *need* that much just to live on?

If you made $150k a year, by the time taxes, social security, and a 401(k) contribution are taken out, you will be WAY short of that spare $100k to buy a horse with before you even bought groceries or gas or put shoes on your existing horse. Add kids and a mortgage and a car or two....let me know how it goes!

[Aggie4Bar]

hmm seems to me if you can't write the check(ie you need to finance, go to bank ect), you can't really afford the horse.Amen. The same thing can be said for a lot of the things people borrow money to buy. Horses are a luxury item.

[sid]

JH -- I absolutely understand your post. I'm a businesswoman and owner in "corporate" endeavors and admire the objectivity and bottom line of good business decisions.

Unfortunately, my decisions regarding my horses turned out to involve my heart -- not just my business (economic) head. That's why I stopped breeding babies myself and only breed to outside mare owners now.

When it comes to the horses I've delivered and raised...well, business endeavors just seem to fly right out the window (grin). But that doesn't make me less serious about being a part of putting outstanding horses on the ground for others to enjoy and from which they may also enjoy economic benefit through standing exemplary stallions.

[LSM1212]

My guy was 5 figures... now the lower part of that but still. So saying $20,000 for a horse isn't really that much IMO. If they have show miles and are more made.

How did I pay for him? Cash. That I saved up and hubby paid for 1/2 as a Christmas present. :)

He's pretty bombproof and a point and shoot kinda guy. Has always gotten 1st or 2nd in the hack (a third once when I screwed up). And usually pins in O/F (again, if I don't screw up). He was being shown 3'. I show him 2'. LOL And he's only 7. I bought him because he's quiet and safe. And as honest as they come. As long as you get him in the vicinity of the jump, he'll take care of you. And you can ride him like a sack of potatoes and he'll just keep clocking on.

My trainer has a jumper that was bought for $750,000 as a yearling (nice bloodlines). He's an OTTB. Was a stakes winner.

I think she got him for cheap (few thousand) earlier this year (he's 6) and he had raced until Dec 05. She knew him when he was racing. She was an exercise rider at the track and worked this horse. He's doing 3' Jumpers now and doing well. Brave and tries really hard. And is sane. I've even ridden him a few times.

Now, if I had money.... sure I'd get a $100,000 + horse. :D

[[r.oo and l.ulu]]

Am I the only one who isn't sad and depressed that I'll most likely never be able to afford a 100k+ horse...scratch that...20k horse?

The barn next door has some very expensive horses with some very oody-doo pedigrees and yet, somehow, I don't envy their owners. They're nice people, but for the life of me I don't think that I would be able to view my horse as an investment. These horses are, for the most part, kept at arm's length. If the horse starts to buck and run in the pasture, it's brought inside. It's kept in a stall 24/7 where it's blanketed and under lights. Riding around bareback or going for a midnight gallop out on the trails is forbidden. If the horse fails to meet the expectations of the owner it's sold in hopes of finding another one that's more qualified. There's no attachment there.

My apologies if this offends anyone, but if that's what it takes to be competitive, then count me out. I refuse to toss aside horse after horse in hopes of finding the one that will take me to the top. Again, sorry if toes are being stepped on, but I think it's utterly ridiculous that riders can be plopped on made horses, sent into the ring, and rake in the ribbons when said riders wouldn't know what to do with a green horse...and perhaps have trouble even staying on. I think that's sad. Yes...sad. Deplorable even.

So while I can appreciate the horses and admire a pretty round in the showring, I have no desire to fork over that much money if it means I would have to sacrifice my beliefs. If I never win another blue ribbon, but I know how to ride and train my own horses, and be able to treat them like horses, then so be it...I don't think I'd be missing out on too much.

Me thinks I went a little off subject...my apologies. :)

[Kate66]

Different priorities. Different income. People with expensive toys don't necessarily come from family money. Some people work damn hard, some people get lucky and get into a job that pays well and then work hard at it. Some people buy a good piece of land that goes up in value etc etc. That person with the $20k horse may be driving a decrepid old car with 150k miles on the clock, live in a small house (which suits them just fine) and may not go on expensive vacations or eat out continuously.

Just for the record - I don't have a $20k horse. I wouldn't assume that everyone that has one has money to burn, they just prioritise differently.

[TripleRipple]

Ever since this thread got started I've been thinking about what kind of horse it would actually take to get me to fork over a million smackeroos (if I had that kind of money, which I don't). For me, it comes down more to successful individual horses. For example, I'd have paid that kind of money for an Idle Dice (jumper) or ASB stallions Phi Slama Jama or Periaptor, no problem. Short of having a horse like THAT - a horse whose name will live in history forever - I don't think I'd do it.

If I had 300 million bucks, and a million of it would buy me a stunning prospect that I knew I could campaign so successfully that I would ride into the history books, ie create that champion by having champion style rides that got the whole joint cheering and talking about them forever? Okay. Yes.

Thankfully, I am old enough to know that the odds of that are astronomical, and so I don't have to feel bad that I'd never have the bucks to do it on that level anyway:)

[YankeeLawyer]

There seems to be a recurring sentiment on this thread that people who pay 6 figures for a horse view them as disposable, or treat them like hothouse flowers and deny them the ability to just "be horses." I am sure there are examples of that but I don't think it is fair to assume that of those who spend that kind of money on a horse typically treat them that way.

And I honestly don't see why anyone cares how other people choose to spend their money. I don't think it is necessary to spend huge amounts to end up with a top horse if you have a good eye and the ability to develop young talent. I do think that approach is far more interesting than buying one someone else has already discovered and made up, which to me takes the fun part out of the whole endeavor. But different people have different goals and abilities, and it is their prerogative to pursue their dreams how they choose.

[TripleRipple]

If you take it one step further back (breeding), you can just as easily boggle the mind. The stud fee for my OTTB was 150k! (His dad produced 5 breeders cup winners and his dam threw, 1) Now, there are a couple of horses at that price and one or two higher (Storm Cat at 500k). Now, I know the people that "buy" the stallion services wheel and deal and probably don't actually write a check for that amount, but.. still... somewhere that value changes hands.


Couple of months back, I was read two books about the TB racing industry - fascinating. The main things I remember were the enormous stud fees which don't get you a horse to ride at all, just sperm with high hopes attached and the bigger fact that there is a boatload of money spent overall just to be in the racing industry, again where you are only forever a spectator, not a participant (ie, you never get on these horses for all that you spend).

Those facts boggle my mind given the dollars involved more than anything in any other discipline (where you at least can pretend you ride/or pretend you may be allowed to...lol).

[CBoylen]

I don't understand the impression that expensive horses aren't loved as much as inexpensive ones. That depends on the nature of the person, not the price of the horse. There are just as many people attached to their high-figure horses as there are people attached to their track rescues, and the same goes for people who are not.

The other thing is, just because a horse is expensive doesn't mean it's easy to ride.. I can think of one $750k horse in particular who is well known for occasionally just going off like a bronc at the end of his course. They all have their quirks. "Made" is a relative term. A fancy animal that knows it can be one of the most difficult rides. The fancy horse that is truly easy is a very, very rare animal.
Most of the riders that purchase these expensive horses, and goodness knows I see enough of them, could ride just about anything. They ride bareback when they feel like it, and get on whatever comes through their barns, green, made, or in-between. The same people that you might see or read about week after week winning on one experienced horse.
You don't see the whole story unless you look more closely.

[TheOrangeOne]

Well, Campaigning a horse can easily cost 100k at the top levels. When you think of that, well these big numebers aren't as crazy.

[snaffle635]

I don't understand the impression that expensive horses aren't loved as much as inexpensive ones. That depends on the nature of the person, not the price of the horse. There are just as many people attached to their high-figure horses as there are people attached to their track rescues, and the same goes for people who are not.

The other thing is, just because a horse is expensive doesn't mean it's easy to ride.. I can think of one $750k horse in particular who is well known for occasionally just going off like a bronc at the end of his course. They all have their quirks. "Made" is a relative term. A fancy animal that knows it can be one of the most difficult rides. The fancy horse that is truly easy is a very, very rare animal.
Most of the riders that purchase these expensive horses, and goodness knows I see enough of them, could ride just about anything. They ride bareback when they feel like it, and get on whatever comes through their barns, green, made, or in-between. The same people that you might see or read about week after week winning on one experienced horse.
You don't see the whole story unless you look more closely.

Amen, sister!

Back to the original question...how do people pay for expensive horses? Yes, they write a check.

I've realized that there are a heck of a lot of people in the world with a heck of a lot of money. A friend once told me 'the world is a very abundant place'. The more I see, the more I'm starting to believe her.

[Madison]

honestly I thought one of the really top hunters would run into the 100K mark possibly 200K but no more.

Hate to tell you, but fancy green ponies are sold in that price range!

I have friends with horses in every price range from the under $5k to the 6-figure horses, and they all love them just the same.

[friesiandriver]

That person with the $20k horse may be driving a decrepid old car with 150k miles on the clock, live in a small house (which suits them just fine) and may not go on expensive vacations or eat out continuously.

Ha! Don't we see that alot? I personally don't get it. Unless you are single and care of nothing other than horsey stuff.However, if that's what makes you happy then forsure, by all means!

I guess it all boils down to the fact that everyone has a different idea of "rich". People equate what you own to how much money you have. Some people think being able to spend ten k just like that makes you rich. Some say 1 mill. Depends on your outlook. However, alot of the time things aren't how they seem. My dad's buisness makes in the 9 figures but they don't live in a big fancy house. Granted they have the things they like..he likes cars, mom likes horses however she certainly doesn't have a 100k horse sitting in the pasture. Just because you can doesn't mean you do. And just because you shouldn't doesn't mean you don't..this is often the case I think.
Overall, we are all different in our outlooks: Some people really like buying talent and training it up, some people are more competative than others and dont have the eye, time or talent to go the young prospect way. Some see horses they buy as status symbols. Some think they need a 300k horse to compete. I think that one is balony for the most part. I am not saying you can pick something totally wrong for the sport and then blow everyone away but...overall, unless I am wanting to compete at the olympics NOW, then spending HUGE sums of money is not required to succeed. All of my horses as a junior rider were under the 5 k mark and the one that I won alot of national titles with I trained myself. Mind you this is the arab circuit, so it's not like a national champ goes for high six figs usually, but the prices are considerably higher than 5 k. Obviously, now that we are into dressage and warmbloods/friesians it is much more expensive to find a top prospect HOWEVER ,I KNOW I can pick a prospect and pay WAY less than 300k for it as I think most "horse" people should be able to do. If I can do that, I just can't fathom paying 300 k for the same horse down the road. But again..thats just me!
And again in regards to this 300k junior mount...I just wonder "why?". My piont is, some parents like to instill a sense of worth and make their kids work for their accomplishments. How is buying a 300 k made horse doing anything for your kid in teaching them these things, let alone developing their skills?? On the other hand, they aren't my kids.
I am kind of going of on a tangent here but what it all boils down to is that we are all different and we all view "lots" of money in totally different ways. I personally think you have "lots" of money then your a multi millionaire. I think you are doing well if you can truly afford horses at all,on any level granted you are taking proper care of them ect. We also all have different priorities in terms of how we spend our money despite what our incomes are. Values also come into play when we decide how much we will spend on something and for what; irrespective of income levels. I think so at least.
On a side note I read in Horse Sport this month that 4 million eu was offered for the mare Blue Hors Martine that I beleive was fourth in dressage at weg, and it was turned down. The owner said "this is not a horse you sell".

[Dressage Art]

I really wanted to stay out of this thread. So I'll try to be short. When I read this thread I feel like I'm rich. When I look around, I feel poor.

I live in California where you can get substudised government housing if your income is less than $75K for the family of 3. You can rent a room that use to be a garage, no windows, restrooms or kitchen for minimum of $1K per month in San Francisco. Average mortgage is $3K per month. You can survive by making less than $100K per year, but it's not easy.

I am an immigrant from USSR; My family came to US when I was a teenager with out knowing English. I never thought that I would be able to buy a horse, any horse and be able to afford to upkeep it. I went to University, I finished it with 4.0 GPA and I went to work as an artist. Yes, that's right as an artist. I worked my butt off for 80 hours per week, 93 days with out a day off. I leased horses and saved my money, and never in my life owned a horse until 2 years ago. I'm in my early thirties now. I paid 20K for my horse in 3 payments. I sold my stock shares and wrote 3 checks. I made that money all by myself with hard, honest work as an artist and less than 20 years ago, I didn't speak English.

You speak English now, work and start saving now. If you want it bad enough you can do it.

[CrazyDog]

what you do is you go to school, you get an advanced degree with honors, you work really really really really hard in your career, you pay back your student loans, your fund your retirement plan, then you buy the horse of your dreams with a check. It is the reward for really busting your a@@ working 100hrs per week.


:yes:

[Shahrazade]

Think about how much $100K could do for a horse rescue- the one I work with had the entire boarding jumping up and down when they recently received a grant for $2,000. I have a $350 horse who suits me fine, the horse before him was free, and my expensive girl was $1,625. I suppose that if you're an Olympian, you might need a 100K horse to represent your country in the Games, but a young rider whose parents drop that sort of cash on a horse? Spoiled brats, and I've met a few- not one of whom could stay on the squirrely rescues and greenbeans I like to ride.

Of course, there are exceptions to my turning up my nose at expensive horses. A stud prospect should cost major moolah- make people think twice about starting a breeding operation, overbreeding, and selling the weanlings that aren't bought by private owners at auction. An extremely talented horse is worth every penny to someone whose entire goal in life is to be a competitive rider at the upper levels. But for juniors, kids, amateurs.... what's stopping them (or their parents) from buying one of the umpteen safe and sound horses under $5K I see advertised every day, and using the remaining $95K for a college fund, or to donate to a good cause?

I know if I made a million bucks selling, say, Snooty Sally Horse Diapers, I'd be putting it in mutual funds or a savings account, living off dividends/interest, and still riding a $350 slaughter rescue.

[hundredacres]

I really wanted to stay out of this thread. So I'll try to be short. When I read this thread I feel like I'm rich. When I look around, I feel poor.

I live in California where you can get substudised government housing if your income is less than $75K for the family of 3. You can rent a room that use to be a garage, no windows, restrooms or kitchen for minimum of $1K per month in San Francisco. Average mortgage is $3K per month. You can survive by making less than $100K per year, but it's not easy.

I am an immigrant from USSR; My family came to US when I was a teenager with out knowing English. I never thought that I would be able to buy a horse, any horse and be able to afford to upkeep it. I went to University, I finished it with 4.0 GPA and I went to work as an artist. Yes, that's right as an artist. I worked my butt off for 80 hours per week, 93 days with out a day off. I leased horses and saved my money, and never in my life owned a horse until 2 years ago. I'm in my early thirties now. I paid 20K for my horse in 3 payments. I sold my stock shares and wrote 3 checks. I made that money all by myself with hard, honest work as an artist and less than 20 years ago, I didn't speak English.

You speak English now, work and start saving now. If you want it bad enough you can do it.

Holy crap....I need to jump off cliff now ;)

Seriously...I'm amazed at your story and a failed artist (for the most part...I've made some money but only supported myself for short periods of time and it is because I can't friggin cope with the drive that is needed to keepit up!)...I am humbled by your story,

I don't need to pat you on the back ;). I'm sure your proud as you should be. Thanks for sharing.

[CrazyDog]

An extremely talented horse is worth every penny to someone whose entire goal in life is to be a competitive rider at the upper levels. But for juniors, kids, amateurs.... what's stopping them (or their parents) from buying one of the umpteen safe and sound horses under $5K I see advertised every day, and using the remaining $95K for a college fund, or to donate to a good cause?

Perhaps because very few $5000 horses can compete at the level they aspire to? Many junior and amateur riders have ambitious riding goals and need the right partner to accomplish them.

Although we are all horsepeople on COTH, we don't all share the same set of goals.

I'm glad you have a rescue horse and are happy with him. I agree that more people should support horse charities. I also think that people should feel free to spend their hard-earned money the way they like and if they want a fancy horse, so be it.

[CANTERSoIL]

Think about how much $100K could do for a horse rescue- the one I work with had the entire boarding jumping up and down when they recently received a grant for $2,000.

This is where my $$$ would go if I had that kind of "disposable" income. :yes: I could have 25 $300 horses purchased AND cared for FOR LIFE with $100k. Not saying that people who can afford a $100k horse shouldn't have one if they'd like - but just imagine if everyone who set out to purchase a $100k horse changed to a $95k budget & gave the extra $5k to a horse rescue..... :sadsmile:

[Jumphigh83]

Well not EVERY OTTB, BUT...An OTTB won the country in the Marshall and Sterling Adult jumpers this year..granted not 4'6" horse BUT a real competitor and off the track (fingerlakes!!)

[abrant]

<<That person with the $20k horse may be driving a decrepid old car with 150k miles on the clock, live in a small house (which suits them just fine) and may not go on expensive vacations or eat out continuously.>>

There are a lot of people out there who drive decrepid old cars, live in small houses, work without long vacations, and eat on $50-100/week... And they don't have money for a $20k horse.

~Adrienne

[J Swan]

I'd rather focus on the horsemanship issues rather than be critical or turn this into a class issue.

Are horses worth small/large fortunes? Of course they are. I don't begrudge those who can afford such horses.

BUT - and this is a BIG BUT:

What are we doing in a larger sense. Are we losing the ability to PRODUCE such horses - and why are we relying upon European horses to compete at the international level???????

Why - and FridayzFortune posts illustrates this (not picking on you though) are our young riders relying upon push button horses so that they can collect ribbons - rather than produce such horses themselves and work their a**es off to get to those upper levels?

There is a place for the schoolmaster to help the young rider develop the skills necessary to be a good horseman. There is a place for a horse that has the ability,scope and breeding to take us to a higher level. But if US riders become increasingly reliant on others to produce such horses FOR them - we will completely lose the ability to bring along our own fabulous horsemen - horsemen that can pass along their knowledge, their horses and their teaching to the younger generation.

Just a thought. Again - I don't begrudge folks who are able to write the big checks to purchase horses - more power to them. But I have to wonder why, and this problem is growing - we as horseman in the US seem to be increasingly incapable to making our own horses.....

[War Admiral]

AMEN, JSwan!!!!!!! :yes: I was about to post in similar fashion (only with far more exasperation showing! :D ) but yeah... Agree completely. I'm one of the ones who did it the hard way and BOY, I took the hits and took the falls and took the humiliation and it took me 8 years to get my OTTB trained up, but I darn well qualified with him my last junior year. And I'm glad I did it that way, b/c it gave me a skill set I still use 40 years down the road.

For me personally, the training-them-up aspect is way more fun than the competing aspect of it. Which is why, even if I had that kind of money to spend on a made horse, I still wouldn't do it. It's MUCH more fun for me to do the daily mental work of "why" the horse is doing this/that and "how" to go about fixing it than it is to get on a made horse and jump around neatly.

But we all have our reasons why we do this, and none of those reasons are the same.

[showgirlmia]

I had a nice horse that I turned into a winning junior hunter that I sold for a lot of $$$$$$$$$. The girl who bought him couldn't ride one side of him. I'll take talent and ability over money any day.

[J Swan]

I was afraid to post my thoughts because I figured I'd be lambasted with phrases like, "you're just jealous because you can't ride, or you can't afford such a horse, yatta yatta". I'm sure it's coming.

Really though - I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone. My thoughts are not new, nor are they unique. Lots of horsemen are concerned about the same thing - in all disciplines.

A proven, competitive, talented horse is indeed worth a lot of money. And it should be. Nor should a person feel compelled to "save" horses with their money instead of using it to buy a made horse. Some may be at a point where making green horses, and the resulting hardware in their bones - is not fun anymore. Others may take up a new discipline and want a horse they can learn the ropes on. All kinds of reasons.

But if you're buying such a horse because you lack knowledge and do not wish to go through the trouble of acquiring it, or do not want to do the work necessary to excel on your own merits.... well, I think there is a cost and we're seeing it.

To further illustrate showgirlmia's post - I offered to let my friend's niece ride my foxhunter in my arena - if she could ride him I said she could take him hunting when she comes to visit. This young lady had ridden for years, shown extensively at nice venues - by all accounts was an accomplished rider - much more so than I, I thought. I'm a rather indifferent rider.

The first thing she wanted to know was how many strides between the fences. I said - how the he** should I know - just ride it off your eye. Her position was lovely. Then she posed, dropped her reins, leaned on his neck with her a** in the air - and ended up on his neck. So I coached her for an hour - after which she could add or substract a stride. Then I told her to cool the horse out, clean him up, clean the tack, and turn him out. She didn't know how to cool out a horse, nor did she know how to take apart a bridle and put it together again.

Yet this young lady - was by all accounts an extremely accomplished and talented rider. Alas - I did not take her hunting; I'm afraid she'd get hurt.

Here endeth the lesson.

[twnkltoz]

I guess I should have known this would happen if I posted this question...if you own a 5 figure or more horse, please accept my apology! Really, I was just curious as to how someone could afford something like that because it's completely out of my realm of experience! If you can write a check for a $100k horse, good for you. Want to adopt a 34yo horse crazy girl? ;)

[Dow Jones]

An expensive horse is not necessarily an easy horse. A made horse is not necessarily an easy horse. The qualities that make a horse win at the top levels do not necessarily make for the most comfortable or easiest ride.

Could I hop on Popeye K and hack him around? Sure. Could I stay with him over a jump? Maybe- okay, let's be honest, probably not. Could I present him in the ring the same way Tommy Serio does? H. no. And if we are being honest, I am sure the same applies to 99.99% of the posters here.

Some here seem to think the only "real" riders are those who start their horses from scratch. That's just not realistic- and simply untrue.

At the end of the day, everyone has to pay for certain necessities- housing, food, etc. What does it matter what they do with the money they have leftover? And why is it any business of anyone else? If you have $10 or $10,000,000, how you spend that money is up to you- and I don't understand why there is so much judgment on this board. Let's face facts, if you own horses, you are likely better off than most- so why split hairs?

[J Swan]

This is true as well. One of my favorite horses is Custom Made. Even in his dotage I'm sure he'd have no trouble dumping my fat butt on the ground!

I don't think a "real" rider is one who starts their horses from scratch. I think a real rider is a horseman - income and lifestyle are irrelevant. Too many of us are hopping on push button horses with the goal of just winning ribbon after ribbon. Those folks will never have to worry if they'll make the Olympic team - they won't. Because the knowledge base just isn't there. I'd like to see our up and coming riders being good horsemen first and foremost.



An expensive horse is not necessarily an easy horse. A made horse is not necessarily an easy horse. The qualities that make a horse win at the top levels do not necessarily make for the most comfortable or easiest ride.

Could I hop on Popeye K and hack him around? Sure. Could I stay with him over a jump? Maybe- okay, let's be honest, probably not. Could I present him in the ring the same way Tommy Serio does? H. no. And if we are being honest, I am sure the same applies to 99.99% of the posters here.

Some here seem to think the only "real" riders are those who start their horses from scratch. That's just not realistic- and simply untrue.

At the end of the day, everyone has to pay for certain necessities- housing, food, etc. What does it matter what they do with the money they have leftover? And why is it any business of anyone else? If you have $10 or $10,000,000, how you spend that money is up to you- and I don't understand why there is so much judgment on this board. Let's face facts, if you own horses, you are likely better off than most- so why split hairs?

[Trixie]

exactly.I think it's great that a lot of you buy CANTER horses or OTTB for under 5k (giving them wonderful homes for nice affordable prices), but the fact is (at least for my goals) that a CANTER horse won't be winning at Harrisburg or in the medal finals.

Toy Story.

Remember the pony first campaigned by Maggie McAlary who was on his way to slaughter and later sold for several hundred thousand?

Granted, that’s not going to be every horse (or even a lot of horses), and Maggie isn’t every rider. But with the right rider and trainer, a CANTER horse can more then be competitive – they were bred for racing, yes. They aren’t warmbloods, yes. But TB’s are still competitive, and CANTER has some great ones.
Also, the majority of A circuit trainers don’t go to the track looking for prospects. They don’t need to – there are plenty of fancy, well bred horses available, particularly if you have more money then time –since most of these are started from the beginning as hunters.

That said, there’s no reason that a CANTER horse couldn’t win at Harrisburg just because they came off the track. Is it likely that they will, against horses that were bred and trained from birth for that one goal? Probably not.
Could it happen, with the right horse, the right rider, trainer, and campaign? Yes, absolutely.

[Dow Jones]

There are also people who can't ride bombproof $300 ponies. Price is irrelevant.

Just because you ride a green horse or inexpensive horse does not mean you ride it prettily, or well, or effectively. Just look at some of the posts here asking for critiques. Lots of scare bears out there.

[Perfect Pony]

An expensive horse is not necessarily an easy horse. A made horse is not necessarily an easy horse. The qualities that make a horse win at the top levels do not necessarily make for the most comfortable or easiest ride.

And they are not neccessarily hard either for that matter. I would say MOST are easy and the difficult ones are rarer.

I was lucky enough to ride many 6 figure horses at one time in my life, a few in the high six figures. A GP jumper, a GP prospect, a champion AO jumper, a champion working hunter are a few. Now I didn't show them but I did ride them and easy compared to most of the horses I have ridden in my life is an understatement. Maybe one would need some lessons in order to ride them at their best, but they were still damn easy horses to ride.

[Dressage Art]

Holy crap....I need to jump off cliff now ;)

Seriously...I'm amazed at your story and a failed artist (for the most part...I've made some money but only supported myself for short periods of time and it is because I can't friggin cope with the drive that is needed to keepit up!)...I am humbled by your story,

I don't need to pat you on the back ;). I'm sure your proud as you should be. Thanks for sharing.

I also want to go and jump off the cliff when I read about famous artists who own their own galleries and have their own horse barns full of horses. One of my artist friends just paid $93K for the landscape of his backyard. Another one took his $200K savings and opened his own Special Effect Studio with a dozen of employers. Another one bought a $60K yacht. Another one went to Europe and will travel and paint for the next 2 years with out working, living on her savings. Another one bought 3 apartments buildings in Philadelphia several years ago and now has enough income from them that she doesn't have to work 80 hours per week. Another one just builds a 5,000.00 square feet custom house in Florida overlooking a beach.... and the list goes on.

They can repeat those spending next year as well and here I am barely scraped $20K for a horse, it took me almost 20 years to get here.

Every one of us is amazing in its own way and there is always a person who is in better and who is in worse situation than we are. It's better not to compare for our own well being.

[eventamy]

I was really lucky this year to be given the opportunity of a lifetime and have a schoolmaster as a free lease. He's teaching me a tremendous amount about eventing (he's been there, done everything!), and given me back my confidence after having a baby. This does not mean he's an easy ride. To get him to do things correctly and effectively I have to do things correctly and effectively, and boy am I working hard to do that! Thank God for my trainer (new this year too), she has really figured out his buttons and is helping me to do so too. My riding has improved tremendously this year and I am so thankful to his family who gave him to me, they could have sold him for a lot of money, even though he's older, but instead he and I found each other and they knew what a great thing it was for both of us.
I've recently been thinking a lot about those "made" or expensive higher level horses. You know those dreams... my husband bought a Powerball ticket, what would I do with the money. One of my dreams is to own a big eventing barn and add an event to Area 1. And I would love to be an owner of an Advanced level horse. I'd love to buy my trainer a horse that could take her to Rolex. Now I know what that would mean monetarily, and it's so interesting to see these threads on here recently about horses being for sale, for how much, and how do people pay for them.

[Dressage Art]

As for the charities, I volunteer and donate to the non profit horse charities monthly. I know people who are giving very selflessly and spending endless hours for horses in need.

Some people live that the donating and volunteering doesn't exist and it just passes them by. It's quite amazing to watch them.

We have an annual tack donation drive for the Horse's Honor now. All the proceeds will go to feed horses over the winter. Last year they raised $17K. So I took a card box with a flier attached to it to my barn and put it next to the mounting block. It was sitting there empty for a couple of weeks, and then several people donated really nice, almost new horse stuff. I also talked to a couple of people personally asking them to dig in their tack trunks and donate the stuff that they don't need. One of my friends who has 3 horses (2 of them are minimum $70K each) brought a pair of gloves with 2 ripped off fingers and nothing else. I really didn't know how to respond to that one.

[J Swan]

What a great opportunity. You illustrate my point as well. You're learning - the horse is teaching. You're gaining confidence - learning how to do things correctly - such a schoolmaster (whether it's free or not) is truly a gem and worth its weight in gold. For you - the focus seems to be on learning and progressing and going on from there to apply the knowledge gained.

The only thing that bothers me is that many folks do not want to do the work necessary to acquire the knowledge. I guess that makes me sound like an old fuddy duddy - maybe I am. There are many wealthy people out there who are formidable horsemen. There are just as many of moderate means who are just as wonderful. What they have in common is horsemanship. That ethic is becoming increasingly rare.



I was really lucky this year to be given the opportunity of a lifetime and have a schoolmaster as a free lease. He's teaching me a tremendous amount about eventing (he's been there, done everything!), and given me back my confidence after having a baby. This does not mean he's an easy ride. To get him to do things correctly and effectively I have to do things correctly and effectively, and boy am I working hard to do that! Thank God for my trainer (new this year too), she has really figured out his buttons and is helping me to do so too. My riding has improved tremendously this year and I am so thankful to his family who gave him to me, they could have sold him for a lot of money, even though he's older, but instead he and I found each other and they knew what a great thing it was for both of us.

[MuleLady]

It's fun to read about the big prices folks pay for horses, yet here I sit contented out of my mind with my $1500 mule who is turning into a delightful field hunter and who is worth a million bucks to me. Guess it's all a matter of perspective--there truly is something for everyone out there, regardless of how big a check you can (or can't) write.

[caffeinated]

but the fact is (at least for my goals) that a CANTER horse won't be winning at Harrisburg or in the medal finals.

I seem to remember a thoroughbred new holland rescue turned A show hunter who showed at Devon and qualified for indoors and won ribbons. So is it likely? Maybe not. Is it possible? Sure. And an OTTB who could have easily been a CANTER horse nearly won at Rolex this year as well. Makes me wonder how much "low price" horses could actually become with the right trainer and rider, LOL

[J Swan]

Mine is worth a million bucks to me too - except when he's naughty. Then I threaten to sell him to the Amish - and they aren't known for paying big bucks!


It's fun to read about the big prices folks pay for horses, yet here I sit contented out of my mind with my $1500 mule who is turning into a delightful field hunter and who is worth a million bucks to me. Guess it's all a matter of perspective--there truly is something for everyone out there, regardless of how big a check you can (or can't) write.

[FairWeather]

Where a horse comes from, or how much someone paid for it, has nothing to do with its ability to do well in the showring. There is a lot of really amazing talent out there with people who have no aspirations to do more than trail ride, occasionally event and pop into some puddle-jumper classes.
Does that mean that my CANTER horses couldnt go on to do something worthwhile? Errr, I dont think one has anything to do with another.

[LGW]

Thank you so much for your insightful and obviously experienced horse knowledge! If only your spelling/grammar (" 's " ... not " z ") was as great as your words of wisdom.

-On behalf of my CANTER horse



exactly.I think it's great that a lot of you buy CANTER horses or OTTB for under 5k (giving them wonderful homes for nice affordable prices), but the fact is (at least for my goals) that a CANTER horse won't be winning at Harrisburg or in the medal finals. Now those aren't everyone's goals, so if you can find a "cheap" horse that will be able to meet your goals (or whatver you want to "get out" of that horse) then that's great. When I got my first horse (around 11 years old) I started off with a relatively cheap horse because I was a beginner, but every time I have gotten a new horse (and sold the previous one) it has been because I needed to advance and the horse I had wasn't able to help me advance anymore. When you start getting to the higher levels the prices shoot up.

[Linny]

About 25 years ago no one in the hunter divisions at Harrisbug or the Garden knew what a warmblood was! TB's can compete and yes OTTB's and CANTER horses can compete if given the proper training. Let guys like Tommy Serio or other go shopping at CANTER and in a few years you'll see them.

As for wealthy folks buying what they want, isn't that the American dream? Some might see the extravagances of the wealthy as frivolous but it's their right. The ex Mr Linny has a very expensive car. When he bought it, tongues in the neighborhood were wagging about overspending on a car. The fact is that the car and the house are paid for and he makes enough money that he can buy pretty much whatever he wants. He's entirely self made and earns a salary that in this area is considered big money. Why should he not get what he wants?
I know that every $100k spent on one horse could save hundreds from poor fates but honestly, what is the incentive to work hard and succeed if some scold is going to come along and insist that instead of a $100k horse you rescue 100 $1k horses?

I've been lucky enough to have ridden a few very nice horses in my life, not a Popeye K or anything but good horses. There IS a difference between a good horse and a REALLY NICE one.

The realm of the big 6 digit horse is one in which I don't operate. I probably never will. If I had the money I'd buy the nicest horse I could and provide it the best care I could. Right now, I can't really even afford lessons and with a child in 1st grade, time is tight. I know some people who have no qualms with second mortgages or running up enormous credit card bills for the "horse thing." I was simply not raised that way and avoid debt. I heard a woman in a tack shop not long ago discussing how she still owed on credit cards she used to send her daughter to Florida for a month 2 years ago. I know that this girl went to Ocala last winter and got a new horse this summer! I'd rather be the one paying cash for a $100k horse than that woman.

I don't begrudge well off people their spending but I will admit to envying them. :winkgrin:

[Twilight]

Ahh, sweeping generalizations - you gotta love them. Actually there have been numerous "cheap" horses that have gone on to do quite marvelous things in the show ring. Frankly, my cheap horse made up in heart what she lacks in scope, and I'd take 10 of her over my expensive horse (scopey but heartless) any day.

LGW - too funny! I think I've met you at Culpeper - your horse is adorable!

[Everythingbutwings]

Originally Posted by FridayzFortune http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=1951224#post1951224)
but the fact is (at least for my goals) that a CANTER horse won't be winning at Harrisburg or in the medal finals.


You seem to be forgetting Jet Run. He earned $96.00 in his racing career but is in the show jumping hall of fame as one of the best and brightest stars in history. Then, perhaps that's not your goal.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/jet+run

Don't go knocking on ex-racers. It doesn't hold up.:no:

[dropitlikeitshot]

Plenty of thoroughbreds show competitively on the A circuit.

You don't need to spend all the money to have a horse that is worth all the money.

"Safe and sane" beats "fancy and nuts" any day!

[War Admiral]

[/I]


You seem to be forgetting Jet Run. He earned $96.00 in his racing career but is in the show jumping hall of fame as one of the best and brightest stars in history. Then, perhaps that's not your goal.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/jet+run

Don't go knocking on ex-racers. It doesn't hold up.:no:

Or my all-time fave GP jumper, the late great IDLE DICE.... You can look *him* up in the SJHOF too, youngster. ;)

And as to the hunters, hmmm, ISTR a certain COTHer cleaning up at WEF a couple years ago with her loffly OTTB. :yes:

So I think the point I'd like to make to the young riders out there is that just because YOU CHOOSE to buy a (perceived) "better" horse every year, rather than pick a greenie and make it up into a genuine "A" circuit horse, don't ASS-ume that there is some fault in the horses. :mad: There are plenty of horses who could get there if they got the training, just as there are plenty of talented pros and experienced ammies retraining them for the loff of it.

And I sure do seem to see a lot of OTTBs doing the "A"s around here, so I can't help wondering some of our young riders posting in this thread can even recognize one when they see it??

[Dow Jones]

Likewise, don't assume that because someone chooses not to buy a green horse, that they think their choice is "better." Sometimes riders have immediate goals which cannot be achieved with a greenie. Sometimes ammies don't have the time or resources to pour into a greenie. One choice isn't better than the other- they're just different. Assuming otherwise is foolish.

[Twilight]

War Admiral - sadly, I doubt they would recognize a TB if it bit them on the a$$.

Dow - I agree with you, (heck, I am the first one to admit that's exactly why I bought my current horse) but I think it was more that it sounded like one poster was assuming CANTER type horses were pieces of sh$& that were only good for trails and low level riding - I sort of think that might be what folks took issue with.

[TripleRipple]

[QUOTE=J Swan;1951544]
But if you're buying such a horse because you lack knowledge and do not wish to go through the trouble of acquiring it, or do not want to do the work necessary to excel on your own merits.... well, I think there is a cost and we're seeing it.
[QUOTE]

Agreed. We are losing the ability to produce riders, ie horsemen/women. I believe my generation and thereabouts will be the last to want much to do with horses. At least in the way we all still enjoy them now.

I know many who are buying horses as investments, objects to put in a stall and cuddle over, but know nothing about, and for the sole purpose of having BNT ride and then exclaim over how "proud" they are of their accomplishments (in having the checkbook?). Hey,whatever rocks your boat as a hobby in life. But it feels like this is the next to the last stop on the horse-human partnership train. It has been another eye opener to see what people find "shocking" price wise for a horse; whereas in my biz these are becoming very ordinary prices for "competitive horses" (as I see is true in other disciplines). You'd hope that people spending this are indeed only those who have aspirations to spend a lifetime becoming horsepeople. True sometimes.

OTOH, most people I know doing this (in the modest range of $50k-100's low to mid k) are not as interested in the horse itself, as in making the point that they CAN afford to do this. They have no yachts or planes (can't even afford to lease or even own a fractional share in a plane). They either have a bit of family money (not the kind that makes you gasp) or are professionals who spend any excess dimes on horse stuff. And don't ride the horse much, or at all, or spend any time learning. I am glad they are around; the longer they fund the horse industry, the longer people like me can enjoy aspects of it. But as these people age, they will find other pursuits and uses for their $$.

To be honest, I don't blame any group or person or anything - it is just the way I see this evolving. And more quickly than I thought - I have been wrapped up in a horse bubble for quite a few years now. Just taking some steps away from being around others similarly situated, and seeing how the rest of the non horsey world has been living has been sadly instructive on this.

And another point - my mother immigrated here; my folks have a tremendous work ethic, saved every dime, raised us kids, and are still working their asses off into their almost 80s (like I don't see many other older people doing). I am the first in our branch of the family to attend college (others in my family tree did much better; many have done much worse). For me, working hard, being willing to kick ass AND being just plain lucky in the things that did and did not happen to me paid off(fate, karma, whatever you call those things not under your control but that work in your favor). For my parents, nope. They have no issues, but these kinds of conversations re spending this much money at all, more less on a horse, would floor them. They worked hard, yada yada, and no, these opportunities didn't happen for them.

Life is random. Anyone who thinks that working "hard" and being careful and frugal will always pay off in a just reward need to spend more time listening to the stories of other people.

[caffeinated]

War Admiral - sadly, I doubt they would recognize a TB if it bit them on the a$$.

Dow - I agree with you, (heck, I am the first one to admit that's exactly why I bought my current horse) but I think it was more that it sounded like one poster was assuming CANTER type horses were pieces of sh$& that were only good for trails and low level riding - I sort of think that might be what folks took issue with.

Exactly. :) It was the assertion that it was a "fact" that CANTER type horses couldn't possibly show at that level that got me. :)

[abrant]

Re OTTBs not being up to snuff...

It occured to me when I was riding this afternoon....

If OTTBs aren't up to "some people's competitive aspirations"... then why do I have hunter/jumper trainers scouring my sales lists looking for their next big resale project?

I wish I was a hunter/jumper trainer... then I'd have nice things... (including people writing me lots of checks;) )

~Adrienne

[FairWeather]

Little Known Dirty Little Secret.

Lots of upper level trainers buy horses off the track all the time, put a month or two on them then sell them for 20K, they just dont want you knowing they spent 800$ on the horse a month earlier.

[Seal Harbor]

One thing that seems to be forgotten here is the horse has no idea how much someone paid for him/her.

The other thing - people who can pay cash for multiple six figure horses typically aren't living an either/or lifestyle - they do donate money, they buy expensive cars, houses, clothes, kids college and private school tuition is paid for and whatever else they want because they didn't spend their last 100K on a horse. There are millions more where that came from.

[Dow Jones]

Dow - I agree with you, (heck, I am the first one to admit that's exactly why I bought my current horse) but I think it was more that it sounded like one poster was assuming CANTER type horses were pieces of sh$& that were only good for trails and low level riding - I sort of think that might be what folks took issue with.

I think your average horse- no matter where it comes from- is not going to be the second coming of Rox Dene. Luckily, most people do not have that sort of lofty goal, and horses from all over- including rescue/retraining orgs. like CANTER or Finger Lakes- go on to be very happy and successful in their new homes. And rescuing and/or retraining a horse or bringing along a greenie is extremely rewarding.

If you are looking to win at 3'6 at the A shows next week, you probably don't have time to take on a project. And luckily, there is a market for those horses as well. Just a more costly one. ;)

I've personally had greenies and what some here would consider "made" horses. None were what I would consider cheap. Some fell into the price bracket being discussed here. No matter their cost, they were all good at their jobs and all lived in the lap of luxury. There was certainly no difference in the number of carrots or kisses any of them received. :)

[Mozart]

A few observations on an interesting thread...
Just because a horse is "inexpensive" does not mean the owner will love it more and treat it more like a horse and not like an "investment". If we truly wanted horses to make $ for us and be investments, well, we would not be spending $ on horses.

I have been on one side of the coin and will soon be on the other. From the age of 10 to end of highschool I partboarded and free-leased whatever. During university I rode whatever needed riding whenever I could afford the time. There was $0.00 for horses or for anything else other than tuition, books, living expenses. I paid for all of my education myself. My first major purchase when I got a job was an OTTB. He didn't work out so well but the second one ($1,000) took me eventing and showjumping.

Nine years ago I wanted a WB, decided I could only afford a weanling, for which I paid $3,000 I still spent low 5 figures, probably, just on the installment plan ;) And ended up with a horse that was not really suitable for me.

Fast forward to now, I am a busy professional with a pre-schooler and a farmette. I can think of no better way to spend the occasional weekend then toodling around a horse show. I am now in the horse market again. I am tall, 15.3 doesn't cut it. I can only ride 3-4 times a week max. At this point in my life, I can't deal with a horse that needs a "program". I need a horse that I can get on after maybe 2 or 3 days off that isn't going to kill me. I am not an incompetent rider, I have ridden horses lots of people wouldn't even get on, but I cannot afford to get hurt at this point in my life. My family and my employer depend on me.

It can't be green but it also has to be young enough that it will still be saleable in a few years or that I can enjoy it for a long time if it turns out to be "the one".

I don't need to win everything in sight but I like to be rewarded for my schooling efforts from time to time. Iwould prefer having miles in the show ring already, I have and done introduced a number of horses to the show ring, just don't really want to go that route right now.

Consequently, I have to shop in the 5 figure range in my area. Fortunately, I can afford to do so for the first time in my life. Breed does not come into it, suitability and ability to do the job does. If you can find what I have described under five figures....call me! (just kidding, I don't want to get banned).

So OF COURSE you can ride and show and have fun and love inexpensive horses. But the longer your list of requirements, the higher the price tag. Simple market economics.

However, increasing your debt load or going into debt to buy a horse....I don't think that is ever wise, unless it is part of a part of a business plan (i.e. breeding stock) Still, I would lose sleep.

Anyway, as someone who will be buying a 5 figure horse for the first time....I'll let ya know how it works out!! (quite low five figure, I hasten to add)

[magnolia73]

Just a thought-
Trade up method- $2500 OTTB becomes $15,000 local childrens hunter which buys a $20,000 warmblood prospect which becomes a $50,000 junior hunter...so if you are good enough to add value to a horse, you can keep selling and trading up to get $100k.

[Twilight]

Dow Jones - agreed and very well put!

[J Swan]

I don't think anyone has said that. Unless I'm mistaken, this thread isn't about you.




Don't know about the rest of y'all, but when I was young, if my momma found out I'd been using terms like "filthy fingers" when communicating with an adult - she'd have taken a belt to me.

First off I'd just like to point out to everyone that a horse's price does not in any way reflect how easy he is to ride. Just because I might have what some people would consider an expensive horse does not mean that I do any less work when I ride him compared to when I ride less expensive horses. I got my second horse when he was four year olds and after training and riding him for 3 years I ended up selling him for twice what I bought him for, so I did work for it. But if it makes you happy to point your filthy fingers at me, then have at it.



You have got to be kidding me. OK, sorry, I shouldn't have said OTTB, that didn't have to do with my point because I have nothing against TB's and I didn't mean anything against the breed. The only reason I used CANTER as an example is because I could not think of the name of any other organizations along those lines. Sure there have been SOME rescue horses who turn into $$$ show animals, but there's always an exception to everything. Funny how you're giving examples of a few select horses who made it big on the "A" circuit, but you haven't mentioned that the horse who won the small junior 16-17 flat class at Capital Challenge was 900k. I didn't meant to start any drama, I just wanted to say that you should be careful when you stereotype people, because A. you are implying that people with expensive horses are rich brats who don't do anything but throw their money around and B. not everyone who has a nice horse is rich.

[J Swan]

There's lots of reasons people buy made horses (for a pretty sum) Nothing wrong with that. The only thing I take exception to is buying the made horse because one does not wish to acquire the knowledge him/herself. And though none of us on this thread may be such a person, chances are we all know one. Or two.... I think it's a bad thing for horse sports in the US.

Some of us don't have time to take on green horses - or don't have the money to take on 5 projects with the hope that one of them will be a star - and then sell the rest. So we buy a made horse and pay accordingly, or create LLP's, market ourselves and get sponsors, or hire ourselves out as braiders - you know - whatever we need to do to get the money.

How many of us can make a horse yet choose not to do so for various reasons? For FridayzFortune (sorry to keep picking you - I'm not trying to be mean) - can you take an OTTB and turn it into a competitive show horse? Do you have the knowledge skills and ability?

Just a question - again I'm not intending to pick on you; anyone can answer. After reading David O'Connors' article in COTH, my curiosity is piqued.





Sorry, I apologize, I shouldn't have said that. But I never did say it's all about me, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

[LGW]

You are quickly becoming my favorite poster. Perhaps, money should have been spent on your manners (I did catch the filthy finger comment before it was edited). Maybe we can draw a positive spin on this by remembering one should think before posting.

Instead of using CANTER as an example of your inexpensive horse shopping option (and placing them in the category they would never make it to a Medal Finals or Harrisonburg), one should focus on the good charity work CANTER does for these horses.

I believe a lot of posters took your mention at CANTER as a swipe, but this is only a BB and this thread will soon be forgotten as the countless others that took a turn for the worst.

[Fluffie]

Sure there have been SOME rescue horses who turn into $$$ show animals, but there's always an exception to everything. Funny how you're giving examples of a few select horses who made it big on the "A" circuit, but you haven't mentioned that the horse who won the small junior 16-17 flat class at Capital Challenge was 900k.

Sorry to continue the derailment, but perhaps part of the reason "cheap" horses don't generally have the most stellar show records is because their owners can't afford the big bills to campaign them? My current show horse was "cheap" by A show standards, but I've had darn good (over ten times the buying price) offers for him because he's whopped the local stars (including a horse that was 3rd in the zone the previous year). However, he'll never see the inside of any of the Indoor rings because I simply can't afford to show him at that level, not because of his "lack of talent."

[Trixie]

You have got to be kidding me. OK, sorry, I shouldn't have said OTTB, that didn't have to do with my point because I have nothing against TB's and I didn't mean anything against the breed. The only reason I used CANTER as an example is because I could not think of the name of any other organizations along those lines. Sure there have been SOME rescue horses who turn into $$$ show animals, but there's always an exception to everything. Funny how you're giving examples of a few select horses who made it big on the "A" circuit, but you haven't mentioned that the horse who won the small junior 16-17 flat class at Capital Challenge was 900k. I didn't meant to start any drama, I just wanted to say that you should be careful when you stereotype people, because A. you are implying that people with expensive horses are rich brats who don't do anything but throw their money around and B. not everyone who has a nice horse is rich.


Um, what?
I think we were just talking about horses that cost a lot of money. And everyone knows that a lot of the time, those horses win. But the consensus seems to be that paying a lot of money does not mean, necessarily, that that horse is unbeatable, or that because someone paid a lot for it means that it’s worth a lot. They’re still horses, they have good days and bad – someone mentioned a $750,000 horse who would buck at the end of a round on occasion.
Yet, you said that it’s a FACT that a CANTER (or insert other rescue, apparently) horse isn’t going to win at Harrisburg. It’s not a fact by any stretch of the imagination.

As for “being careful when you stereotype people” – pot, meet kettle. You just stereotyped seven zillion OTTBs by saying they’d never win a class at Harrisburg or a medal final, and now you’re telling us not to stereotype? I don’t even see how OTTB advocates stereotyped – they just provided a few examples to prove you wrong, which was more then fair.

No one said everyone with a nice horse is rich. I don’t think anyone made any blanket statements here. In fact, it was mentioned that a lot of us know people who drive cars that are less than nice, live in small houses, and otherwise sacrifice so that they can have such a nice horse. And I certainly don’t feel that anyone implied that people with expensive horses are “rich brats.” I suppose its how you prioritize.

But if it makes you happy to point your filthy fingers at me, then have at it.

And here we have what this thread boils down to, which is money might be able to buy someone a nice horse, it’ll never buy someone class.

[rhymeswithfizz]

<<That person with the $20k horse may be driving a decrepid old car with 150k miles on the clock, live in a small house (which suits them just fine) and may not go on expensive vacations or eat out continuously.>>

There are a lot of people out there who drive decrepid old cars, live in small houses, work without long vacations, and eat on $50-100/week... And they don't have money for a $20k horse.

~Adrienne

I do that for the $2k horse. And it's up to 185k miles in only 7 years because we can't afford to live anywhere near work, even in the little house. And yes, I eat a lot of PB&J. And I LOVE it. :D

[Dow Jones]

The only thing I take exception to is buying the made horse because one does not wish to acquire the knowledge him/herself. And though none of us on this thread may be such a person, chances are we all know one. Or two.... I think it's a bad thing for horse sports in the US.

How many of us can make a horse yet choose not to do so for various reasons?

J Swan, I am not trying to pick on you, but is there a reason why you keep talking about knowledge and skills?

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a horse at a full service barn. I think for a lot of people who take up riding later in life, i.e. not as juniors, it is hard or at least harder to pick up some of the general horse sense. For working adults, or ammies who have families, there are only a certain number of hours in the day to spend on their riding. I don't think there's anything wrong with an adult who can't clean a sheath or apply poultice. As long as there's someone else in the barn responsible for those aspects of the horse's care, it doesn't matter to me how all the chores are getting done.

I also think it is a bit naive to assume that everyone who makes up a greenie posseses the skills necessary to do so. I had a very green young horse as a junior. Had I not kept said horse at my trainer's and had my trainer do a large percentage of the work in making up the horse, I don't think he would have turned out very well. I was a perfectly good little rider and knowledgeable kid, but that doesn't mean I knew anything about how to bring along a greenie and what was appropriate for him at all the different stages of his development. Does that mean I was a bad horseman? I'd argue not (though my opinion is obviously biased). ;)

I think there are a lot of people who get the horse bug and buy a horse without any horse sense or skills. In my mind those are the last people in the world who should buy a greenie or unmade horse, because I think that more often than not, that experience will be unpleasant for horse and rider. Sure, there is great potential for learning, but also great potential for disaster. If you know what you are doing, and by that, I mean have some experience in bringing along a horse, or have a trainer with that sort of experience- great!

If you have the time, energy, and resources to bring along a greenie or unmade horse- plus the desire to do it- go ahead! It is very rewarding. And if not- no skin off my back. Again, they are just different choices. One is certainly not better or worse than the other.

[lisa]

<snip> but the fact is (at least for my goals) that a CANTER horse won't be winning at Harrisburg or in the medal finals.

<snort!> Who told you that?!?

A CANTER horse has just as much chance as the best-bred Warmblood to Win: they both have to 1) be the right type and 2) be in the right program.

I believe Missy Clark's Caped Crusader is a TB. Didn't Charlie Jayne win everywhere on an OTTB a few years ago?

And I'm NOT a huge fan of any one particular breed/registry -- I just hate it when people make generalizations.

[J Swan]

Actually, I'm saying the same thing. But if you read this week's issue of COTH, particularly the article written by David O'Connor, you may understand what I'm trying to ask.

I think we can all agree that whether one chooses or can afford to train a green horse or buy a made horse, we should all be good horsemen. Sorry - but I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing quality instruction going by the wayside, and I'm seeing, in our young riders, a real lack of basic horsemanship, too much counting strides and posing over jumps, lack of xc skills, etc. Whether one can afford to buy a million dollar horse, or a racetrack reject is really not relevant.

This is much much different that a busy professional choosing a full service barn and paying a princely sum for a finished horse, because they cannot or choose not to go another route. Heck - whatever floats their boat. Same with folks who take up horses later in life. I still expect them to be the best horsemen they can be.


Again, they are just different choices. One is certainly not better or worse than the other.

[FridayzFortune]

I'd like to apologize for my previous posts. I now realize that I was rude and hypocritical. The last thing I wanted was to come off as a brat, but I guess I managed to. I never meant anything mean at all about CANTER, actually the contrary, but by going back and reading my posts I realize how it could have been taken the wrong way. I know it won't take away what I said, but I really didn't mean to be so rude.

[Mayaty02]

BTW I happen to know an OTTB who ribboned at the maclay finals...years ago before all eq horses were warmbloods, it was pretty much TBs and often the best bred TBs came off the track. So let's stop generalizing folks.

[snaffle635]

I'd like to apologize for my previous posts. I now realize that I was rude and hypocritical. The last thing I wanted was to come off as a brat, but I guess I managed to. I never meant anything mean at all about CANTER, actually the contrary, but by going back and reading my posts I realize how it could have been taken the wrong way. I know it won't take away what I said, but I really didn't mean to be so rude.

No worries. I, for one, knew you were just using it as an example to make your point...and not trying to generalize to all OTTBs.

It's a sensitive issue. We're a passionate group. And we've all got our own point of view.

[CBoylen]

I wanted to respond to some general points.
First of all, riding green horses and riding top-quality show horses are two completely different skill sets. It takes experience at both to be able to do both correctly, and that goes both ways. Letting a nice horse go like a nice horse, and giving a green horse the help it needs to learn, are completely different rider functions. They both take practice.

Secondly, I think a lot of people are forced to limit themselves to the more marginally green imports rather than dead-green prospects or OTTB restarts. It has less to do with talent than it does with logistics and cash flow.

We usually have homebreds, and I can tell you personally that in general it would have been cheaper to buy the finished product than to produce it from scratch under the AA show barn circumstances. You're boarding it at your show barn. It takes a good year and a half, at least, to get them to a showring level. Then you have to find a show that has baby greenish classes, and there aren't that many in your schedule. During the time that you're getting it ready, you're dragging it around to all the shows with you, including FL, because, otherwise, it doesn't see shows, it doesn't get ridden, and it sits for four weeks to three months at home until you have a week to teach it everything you already taught it all over again before you head out for another four weeks. You're paying show stalls, shipping, day care, lesson fees, plus the actual horse care costs. So now your homebred or $1k prospect is at least $50k in the hole before it's gotten in the ring to show you if it's even worth that amount, and to get it to the winning stage at your desired level is still the same amount of time and money down the road.

[AHorseSomeDay]

My former trainer once told me that there is no such thing as a push button horse. You just have to know the right buttons to push. Looking back, I think it makes a lot of sense.

I plan on buying an OTTB someday. I would never be able to afford a WB. Some of the prices for WBs are outrageous. $30,000 for a 3 year old WB?? :eek:

I have to admit. I miss the good old days when everyone had TBs and no one had WBs. :) Whatever happened to those days?

[pwynnnorman]

Damn, my post disappeared!

Anyway, I wanted to respond to the page three point about working 100 hours, being dedicated and still not making it.

IMO, there's one thing missing from that formula, and I think most entrepreneurs would agree with me: RISK.

Hard work won't cut it unless you are willing to risk the results of your work to leapfrog out of the average life. My father worked hard and saved, saved, saved. Now he's so accustomed to saving that he can't bear to spend, even though time to enjoy life is rapidly running out for him. It's sad as can be.

Carpe Diem, I say. Also, work hard, but also be willing to roll the dice when the opportunity arises. Produce the 100K beastie, sell it and leap ahead. Or keep it and enjoy.

[YankeeLawyer]

I do that for the $2k horse. And it's up to 185k miles in only 7 years because we can't afford to live anywhere near work, even in the little house. And yes, I eat a lot of PB&J. And I LOVE it. :D

Hey, PB&J is really good.

[CrazyDog]

What are we doing in a larger sense. Are we losing the ability to PRODUCE such horses - and why are we relying upon European horses to compete at the international level???????

But if US riders become increasingly reliant on others to produce such horses FOR them - we will completely lose the ability to bring along our own fabulous horsemen - horsemen that can pass along their knowledge, their horses and their teaching to the younger generation.

There was an article in the French horse magazine, L'Eperon, about this a month or two ago. Breeders are finding it increasingly hard to sell young horses. Everyone, including professionals, want to buy a talented six year old with lots of show mileage...

[Across Sicily]

I know if I went to college for something "useful" (instead of Equestrian Science, ha ha) I could probably have that zillion dollar a year job to pay for all kinds of equine activities.

But there is NOTHING that I love better than starting a horse and bringing it along and showing it.

When I was young I knew I wouldn't be able to afford the Expensive Horses. (Back then I thought 25k was expensive; one of the lesson horses at my barn was worth that and I almost died every time I rode her) So I learned EVERYTHING I could from my trainer, who had me starting and working all the young and training horses for her for a couple years, and then I got crazy and bought a 2 yo unbroke mare with nothing too terribly special in her lines - her lines were known locally but not on a national level - but she had awesome movement, a beautiful head, kind, big, pretty eye, shapely neck, and was conformationally correct. I bought that mare for 2000 bucks as a 15 year old. Then I took her home and worked my a$$ off with her. I am extremely lucky in that she has a lot of natural talent and was a fairly easy train, given that I was no genius (still am not!) at training. Well a few years later now and this same mare has been Class A & Regional Champ in Hunters and Equitation and just recently a National Top Ten. Yeah, most recently appraised at Nationals by a trainer I trust at being worth "at least" 150k.

I handled my mare with kid gloves for the next few days but got over it, she's my pal and my 'baby' and she's got a home with me for life anyway. But tis good to know what you can MAKE.

I like to make 'em. Just going out and riding 'em now and then doesn't appeal to me all that much; I'll train the really expensive ones and get PAID to ride horses all day, thanks!

[Coup De Des]

You know I was just thinking how it'd been a while since the last good trainwreck.

*sits back*

[Drvmb1ggl3]

.

[J Swan]

That's really interesting. Is that article on-line do you think? I'd love to read it.



There was an article in the French horse magazine, L'Eperon, about this a month or two ago. Breeders are finding it increasingly hard to sell young horses. Everyone, including professionals, want to buy a talented six year old with lots of show mileage...

[Everythingbutwings]

There are a heck of a lot of horses of every breed and price that are aimed at yet don't win the Medals or at Harrisburg.

It takes a super special horse, thousands of hours on the part of rider, trainer, grooms, buckets of money just on care, shipping and entry fees and some major beaming from the distance gods to get to that pinnacle.

[friesiandriver]

Ok I don't know anything about hunters but are most of the winning horses really ottb's?? I think what fridays fortune is getting at is that some people don't want to hope that the ottb they pick turns out to be the one in a million example(if that is how it is). They want to spend more and increase their odds of success. It's funny how people freak out over things like this just because someone has an ottb. She wasn't saying the whole canter opperation is the shitz she is saying that if you want a top hunter that usually isn't your first stop.(again I know nothing about the real stats here).But I notice that every time someone makes a comment about the realistic capabilities of a breed in GENERAL everyone that owns that breed chimes in and says:" ohhhh but my arab does do dressage..she won at region 7 at the arab regionals.". The fact of the matter is I don't think any arab has won HOY or been even short listed for olympics so while it might be possible to find that one in a million and get him/her into the right hands and have it do so, it certainly isn't something you want to place your bets on if you are very competative. And god, please don't jump on me if you have arabs. I have one too. It's just reality. Obviously, if ottbs are kicking ass all the time in hunter competition, then ignore this post because like I said, I know nothing abotu it I am just thinking fridaysfortune must.

[Feenikks]

CANTERSoIL, you have me beat. My horse only sold for $55,000 as a yearling.

My first horse at 11 years old was sold to her owner for a bit over a million as a 2year old in training. She made 45K then had throat surgery then her owner passed away and I got her for 1K! :)

[caffeinated]

freisiandriver, it was only her use of the word 'fact' that got my hackles raised. Everyone knows there are certain generalities in the horse world, but you never, ever say 'always' or 'never' when it comes to horses.

And when most of the horses in the showjumping hall of fame are OTTBs (and one rescued straight off a slaughter truck), well, it's pretty clear that there is no such 'fact':) That's all.

It's not like we're all sitting here red-eyed in anger, freaking out and thinking less of others because they prefer to get the more expensive ponies. It's just the idea that other horses or cheap horses 'can't' do something that's wrong. There are plenty of horses out there that probably COULD win at the biggest shows in the country, except their owners want to do something else.

I just try to make it a point to never say 'that horse can't...' or 'that horse will never...' because I've seen those statements proved wrong more often than not. :)

[Trixie]

Ok I don't know anything about hunters but are most of the winning horses really ottb's??

Some are, some aren't.
TB's are the classic hunters - not long ago they were pretty much the only show hunters that you would see, before warmbloods came into play.
Seeing as they are the classic hunter, it's not like someone said "My rescue gaited horse could totally win the hack at Washington!" - it is realistic to say that a thoroughbred, off the track or not, has been quite competitive in the hunter ring for a very long time.

[Linny]

IMO, the biggest restriction on OTTB's at the elite level is who owns/buys them. Most OTTB buyers are folks looking for a nice animal at a budget price. Most OTTB buyers are NOT taking their new purchases to the elite show barns and most CANTER (and similar) sales are not being made to elite trainers.

Most of the OTTB's that show do so at lower and local levels because they are, by definition owned by less well heeled owners who train with people who don't go to Devon or Harrisburg or WEF. (This is NOT a swipe at the horsemanship of these people, just the economic strata they work in.)

If and when horses come from CANTER etc and go to BNT's they have just as much of a shot at top honors as any other horse with that BNT. Our own Silly Mommy bought a Fingerlakes "Rescue" last fall and she's heading to Ocala this winter and she's not some "pipe dream" but a legit mare. Jumphigh83 has two ship in clients with Fingerlakes ex-racers who have been winning like crazy in M&S adult jumpers.

Most of the BNT's out there have clients willing to buy propsects for $50k plus so why would such people even bother with TB's? They are in business and make higher commissions from big sales. Also, in the horse world there tends to be an assumption that spending more is the best way to "keep up with the Joneses." While a BNT might be just as proud of his ex racer his clients sitting in the spiffy seats at Devon are not likley to be heard shouting from the rafters how they bought their horse for $2k at a Fingerlakes or Mountaineer closeout sale.

I said before on this thread that if people like Tommy Serio and Missy Clark and others went to look at TB's they might find some nice prospects at great prices and the TB would be resurgent in the show world. Face it 30 years ago such stock was good enough for most of our Olympians in showjumping and top trainers like Rodney and others in the hunter rings.

[Roxy SM]

IMO, the biggest resptriction on OTTB's at the elite level is who owns/buys them. Most OTTB buyers are folks looking for a nice animal at a budget price. Most OTTB buyers are NOT taking their new purchases to the elite show barns and most CANTER (and similar) sales are not being made to elite trainers.

Most of the OTTB's that show do so at lower and local levels because they are, by definition owned by less well heeled owners who trainer will people who don't go to Devon or Harrisbug or WEF. (This is NOT a swipe at the horsemanship of these people, just the economic strata they work in.)

If and when horses come from CANTER etc and go to BNT's they have just as much of a shot at top honors as any other horse with that BNT. Our own Silly Mommy bought a Fingerlakes "Rescue" last fall and she's heading to Ocala this winter and she's not some "pipe dream" but a legit mare. Jumphigh83 has two ship in clients with Fingerlakes ex-racers who have been winning like crazy in M&S adult jumpers.

Most of the BNT's out there have clients willing to buy propsects for $50k plus so why would such people even bother with TB's? They are in business and make higher commissions from big sales. Also, in the horse world there tends to be an assumption that spending more is the best way to "keep up with the Joneses." While a BNT might be just as proud of his ex racer his clients sitting in the spiffy seats at Devon are not likley to be heard shouting from the rafters how they bought their horse for $2k at a Fingerlakes or Mountaineer closeout sale.

I said before on this thread that if people like Tommy Serio and Missy Clark and others went to look at TB's they might find some nice prospects at great prices and the TB would be resurgent in the show world. Face it 30 years ago such stock was good enough for most of our Olympians in showjumping and top trainers like Rodney and others in the hunter rings.

Bingo! Before WBs came onto the scene, BNTs and BNRs were buying ottbs and developing them into successful, high level show horses. Now the people buying the ottbs are often amateurs that do not even get any sort of help from a trainer of any level.

[wlrottge]

Bingo! Before WBs came onto the scene, BNTs and BNRs were buying ottbs and developing them into successful, high level show horses. Now the people buying the ottbs are often amateurs that do not even get any sort of help from a trainer of any level.

Hmmmmmm....... I bet you could find quite a few OTTB's winning at major events (read eventing) all over the world, just don't tell their riders that they should have bought a different horse ;-) Don't get me wrong though, the quantity of horse for the dollar you can get with an ottb is MUCH higher than what you can get with some others.

[Everythingbutwings]

When you check hunter results you find many thoroughbreds. OTTBs? Not neccessarily because the TB stallions who are known for throwing hunter babies are happily being marketed towards just that.

Moses, (Aarons Gold % Golden Lolly) owned by the Mane Farm, Inc., was reserve Best Young Horse overall in Hunter Breeding at Devon this year.

This is not an unusual occurance. There is a reason that Hunter Breeding is divided into Thoroughbred and Non-Thoroughbred (everyone else) classes. Thoroughbreds used to be THE hunter and it's only in recent years that the non-TB classes have drawn larger entries.

An aside, a friend of mine showed her Andalusian mare in Non-Thoroughbred Broodmare at Upperville a couple of years ago, just on a lark. The beauty of living nearby and wanting photos! She knew her Andy was about as not-a-hunter as one could get. :)

The point many are trying to make is that it isn't a million to one shot that an ex-race horse can compete at the highest levels. It takes just as much conformation and talent on the part of the horse, and care, training, and patience on the part of the humans involved to bring an OTTB along as it does a TB that's never stepped on the track or a warmblood that came over in a vial.

A horse competing successfully at that level is and will continue to be a 6 figure animal, no matter the background.

[lisa]

Also, don't think for a minute that BNTs don't peruse local publications such as Stablemates (magazine in the SE) looking for a bargain. A friend of mine got a call from a very well-known BNT when she advertised there...

Now, once it got to the BNTs barn, I'm quite sure the price would have doubled or tripled... :lol:

[Playing Games]

It's a drop in the bucket for them...They can do it many times over...

[Ketch]

Originally posted by Riva
It amazes me no end to hear people buy these 6 figure and up horses! One of the biggest problems I find with it - aside from the money - is once you buy a horse at that price, you can never really treat it as a horse. You have to treat it as an investment.



Wow. What an assumption. And an incorrect one at that. :rolleyes:

[canwong]

The price paid at auctions do not necessarily reflect the true value of the horse. It is ofter a factor of what are bidding and the size of the ego of those bidding. I don't buy from auctions.

[catknsn]

Go to college...

Ok. Check.

Work 100 hours a week...

Ok. Check.

Be dedicated...

Ok. Check.

DAMN IT. I still only have $250 in my checking account... You people are total liars...




Yeah, I agree. That's a bunch of b.s. that you get rich doing that. I've been around a lot of wealthy people, and here is how you get rich:

Real Estate
Real Estate
Real Estate
and to a lesser degree, owning your own business...but you had better be a great salesperson/networker/manager and just plain good at it.

P.S. Having the desire to rescue animals is a guarantee you will have $250 in checking - on a good day - forever.

[special]

You know the old saying in the horse business? How do you make a small fortune in the horse business by starting with a larger one!!!!!!:lol: :lol:

[Coup De Des]

holy thread revival batman!

[millwrightmomma]

But there is also the other side of the coin :D
We bought a horse, that will always stay here as a personal horse, for many reasons, and $3000.00 which I thought outrageous, but lots of other things were going on ......this horse during competion dropped a suspensory ligament, but before he was ridden, the rider/owner was offered $75,000.00.
Her answer, NO, I'm going to win, and make $100,000.00.
oops, down they went......no win, and we now have him. :)

There was also a young preteen/almost teen that came here looking for a horse. We had the perfect horse, they were great together, parents were thrilled,Trainer even happy, mother figured that she could ride after the daughter went on to bigger things......win....win situation.
Happy with adoption proceedure, we have a low adoption fee, the barn was fine..........great, yes??? NO.
The horse wasn;t expensive enough for the precious little Beyach!!!, because her friend was given a much more expensive horse!!!WTF.
My adoptee could jump out of its skin if required, but perfect steady eddy for the kid.

These kids get what they want, because someone can pay for it.
Adults at least likely worked for the money, if thy didn't inherit it.

[Lauren!]

I've never bought a six-figure horse (or anything close!) but many people I have know who did bought them through some type of financing (2nd mortgage or a loan). Others buy them with money they earned through their business or investments.

I don't think I'll ever pay $20K or $50K for a horse, but I suppose it's no worse or different than spending that on a car or truck (I doubt I'll ever do that either!). If I were to replace my towing vehicle with a brand new 2008 model, it could easily cost $40K, and people finance vehicles like that all the time. Few ordinary people NEED new 1 ton Diesel SuperCab dually trucks but plenty of them are sold every year, they are a luxury item, similar to very expensive horses. But if having horses (or nice trucks) is your priority, and you can afford it (or the payments and risk involved) I say go for it.

[SLW]

All the Nationally titled horses I know are owned by men & women in the construction business, either residential developers or they own cement/asphalt companies.

Ditto the heifers, steers and bulls that show in Denver, Houston Livstock and so forth in the youth classes, these same type folk drop $50,000-$70,000 on a steer you don't even ride. It stays in a cooler to be ready to show. Yikes.

[twnkltoz]

holy thread revival batman!
No kidding! :lol:

[barnmonkey]

It seems that way... I still haven't really recovered from reading a post on here by a certain hunter rider about her friend who thought that her horse was worth $400,000 where in reality it was "only" worth $250,000 at most...

Don't get me wrong, people here pay stupid amounts of money for horses too (£10,000 + for a show pony will always seem ridiculous to me), but the sums of money discussed on this board, on the dressage and h/j forums in particular, always tend to make me go :eek:

How the other half live eh? ;)
Not the other half....How the other 1/10th of 1% live.:D :D :D

[JohnDeere]

The price paid at auctions do not necessarily reflect the true value of the horse. It is ofter a factor of what are bidding and the size of the ego of those bidding.

This is the same with barn sales and it works two ways. In my neck of the woods theres too many horses for sale. That means prices have to come down. Eventually. ;)

When someone wants to seell bad enough theyll come way down. My trainer is good at finding "unwanteds" and buying cheap for us. Will they go to the top? Slim chance at maybe. Will they do our local level of competition?

:yes: :yes: :yes:

Thats good enough for me until I make a fortune. :D

Ive never spent more than $5K on any horse and one I know is worth more than that. In any market.

[carolprudm]

what you do is you go to school, you get an advanced degree with honors, you work really really really really hard in your career, you pay back your student loans, your fund your retirement plan, then you buy the horse of your dreams with a check. It is the reward for really busting your a@@ working 100hrs per week.

While Miss Virginia was way less than that I did buy her with stock options. If I added up all my options and Employee Stock
Purchase Plan from my former employer I could probably have spent close to that much on a horse.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were Google employees who could do the same.

[MissIndependence]

An expensive horse is not necessarily an easy horse. A made horse is not necessarily an easy horse. The qualities that make a horse win at the top levels do not necessarily make for the most comfortable or easiest ride.

Could I hop on Popeye K and hack him around? Sure. Could I stay with him over a jump? Maybe- okay, let's be honest, probably not. Could I present him in the ring the same way Tommy Serio does? H. no. And if we are being honest, I am sure the same applies to 99.99% of the posters here.

Some here seem to think the only "real" riders are those who start their horses from scratch. That's just not realistic- and simply untrue.

At the end of the day, everyone has to pay for certain necessities- housing, food, etc. What does it matter what they do with the money they have leftover? And why is it any business of anyone else? If you have $10 or $10,000,000, how you spend that money is up to you- and I don't understand why there is so much judgment on this board. Let's face facts, if you own horses, you are likely better off than most- so why split hairs?


Hurray!! Great observations. I know of several 100K plus horse that were purchased in "creative" ways. Payment plans, financed, trades, combo's of the previous. People who want something can get pretty motivated and creative about how to get the problem solved. Personally - if I had the money to buy a 300K horse - I would. If it was a horse that I LOVED and thought would suit what I wanted to do. I don't ......but I would if I could. Of course I would be an idiot if I was able to find a less expensive horse with the same abilities, etc.......but sometimes - you just can't get those proven upper level horses for a deal.

I agree so much with this post......the cost of the horse doesn't usually equate to "easy" - it equates to talent, winning, and being in the cream of the crop out there.

[Jazzy Lady]

Marry for money the first time, run off with the pool boy and all of hubby #1's money and then marry for love ;) :p

That should do it...

Or just marry for money and get a pool boy...

:rolleyes:

[carolprudm]

......the cost of the horse doesn't usually equate to "easy" - it equates to talent, winning, and being in the cream of the crop out there.
I suspect that many of the top horses in 3 day, jumping or dressage are anything but easy.

Salinero, thanks but no thanks.
And does anyone remember Might Tango?

[GoLightly]

I remember this one woman who started out with an OTTB. She began taking dressage lessons. She couldn't ride outside the ring and barely could inside. She started competing and then moved on to a BNT. She imported a horse for the BNT as well as buying herself a horse in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. He was many levels above her. She tried competing him but didn't do very well. The last I read, he was up for sale and I haven't seen her name in an competitions. While I was green with jealousy that she could spend such an extravagent amount on a horse and then show at a level she wasn't truely competant at, I must say it was gratifying to see that you can't *buy* success.

[Aggie4Bar]

She couldn't ride outside the ring and barely could inside. She started competing and then moved on to a BNT. She imported a horse for the BNT as well as buying herself a horse in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. He was many levels above her. She tried competing him but didn't do very well. The last I read, he was up for sale and I haven't seen her name in an competitions. While I was green with jealousy that she could spend such an extravagent amount on a horse and then show at a level she wasn't truely competant at, I must say it was gratifying to see that you can't *buy* success.I've observed that most of the upper 5-figure and into the 6-figures show horses are attached to BNTs. While they're nice horses with potential, most haven't proven themselves to be any better or worse than horses of similar breeding and talent available for considerably less. IMO, people who pay that much are often paying for the convenience of having trainers, agents, etc., assisting with the purchasing effort with the guarantee of finding a show-ready horse. Unfortunately, not all get what they pay for as described in the above quote.

[poltroon]

The most humbling experience I ever had as a rider was the day I first sat on a $100k dressage horse and attempted to do a nice working trot on the rail.

That horse felt and reacted to every wiggle I made. We did shoulder-in, haunches-in, the occasional halt, a little passage... until I got enough concentration and control over my body to ride him straight on the straights and bent in the corners.

Tempi changes? Piece of cake. Oh, you only wanted 15? You want to stop doing tempi changes? :D

It is wonderful to have an awesome horse that can do it all - if only you're good enough. And there's the rub. When you're riding a $1000 horse, if it all goes to pot well then that's just horses, what did you expect? But when you're riding a $100k horse everyone puts the blame squarely on the rider. If you can't win with a nice horse like that, clearly it's the person who is the problem... all your failures right there for the world to see. :D

Of course, shockingly enough, even $100k horses still poop, and do all kinds of vaguely annoying horse things. They still have good days and bad, and likes and dislikes.

[Sandy M]

what you do is you go to school, you get an advanced degree with honors, you work really really really really hard in your career, you pay back your student loans, your fund your retirement plan, then you buy the horse of your dreams with a check. It is the reward for really busting your a@@ working 100hrs per week.


That's what the 17 year olds on $1 million junior jumpers did?

Actually, you manage to be the daughter or son of someone wealthy, or marry well, or.... find a sponsor, if you're a good enough rider. Sigh.

Sadly, I knew of an older lady whose cross-bred (TB/Shire) came up with soundness issues that made him unrideable just as he successfully made his 3rd level debut. So, she saved and she and her husband budgeted about $20-$25K for her "dream horse." BUT OF COURSE.... the trainer said she MUST go to Europe, and she ended up mortgaging their home and by a $40-$50K horse....... that the trainer rides and shows all the time. Basically, she mortgaged her future to buy a horse for someone else. Sigh.

[Sandy M]

To your point - my horse cost $4500 many many years ago (21 maybe?) and we did ultimately sell him for $30K 5 years later but yeah when you factor in the cost of board and showing...somehow it just doesn't add up :) But that being said, that is why I am going to get a well bred baby and keep her in my backyard, then train and sell so I can afford to buy another! I can't even afford a horse who is broke to ride :)

Yeah, but you're going to spend that much on board, etc. for the expensive horse too....It's ain't the purchase price, it's the upkeep. (except when the purchase price is 6 figures and up!)

[rebecca yount]

What Mickeydoodle said.

[Candle]

How many people on this board who helpfully go "well, you KNOW, if you have to FINANCE the horse, you just can't afford it" also have credit card debt? House mortgage? And I doubt if the family can afford to spend that much on the horse, they really think of it as an investment. Just my $.02 on a subject which will never die.

[IsolaBella09]

How many people on this board who helpfully go "well, you KNOW, if you have to FINANCE the horse, you just can't afford it" also have credit card debt? House mortgage? And I doubt if the family can afford to spend that much on the horse, they really think of it as an investment. Just my $.02 on a subject which will never die.

well said!