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HardHeadedHanna
Oct. 7, 2006, 11:21 PM
I just read in HorseIllustrated that Salinero acted up at WEG and the police had to be called to deal with him. Does anyone have pics of this event? Wwere any of you there and can you give a first hand account.

YankeeLawyer
Oct. 7, 2006, 11:24 PM
I wasn't there, but apparently he got a little overexcited in the victory gallop and made a bee-line for the exit of the arena at full speed. And, apparently Ms. Van Grunsven had to point him at some mounted police to get him to pull up. So, no, he wasn't exactly arrested ; ).

egontoast
Oct. 8, 2006, 07:15 AM
I hear he is in the Big House making license plates.

Bogey2
Oct. 8, 2006, 07:58 AM
I hear he is in the Big House making license plates:lol:

I actually saw them hoofcuff him and haul him away

alexandra
Oct. 8, 2006, 08:26 AM
she was not able to control him anymore and he - happy to once got out of control- took of. She was yelling help help. He could only be stopped because the mounted police was getting into their way.

slc2
Oct. 8, 2006, 11:11 AM
more rollkur snidelikins.

look, people, just about any horse can and has done that. when milton did it, it was cute. get a life.

slc2
Oct. 8, 2006, 11:25 AM
yeah, and if YOUR horse spooked, it would be because of the mean DQ with more money than you and friends with the judge, that rattled the gate to scare your darling horse, and somehow YOUR partnership with your horse would be unquestionable.

what a bunch of nonsense. the woman is pregnant, the police are the ones who always stop these horses, they also stopped invasor and plenty of other horses too.

the same has happened to klimke, balkenhol and all the rest of the non rollkurlers. try to get a different hobby. klimke wound up lying on his face in the dirt more than once at a show - you're twisting things. it happens to everyone.

horses are not robots. they occasionally get startled by things - ANY horse, rollkured or not.

look, i don't train my horse that way either, but i DON'T need to gossip about someone and make up ridiculous things about them or twist what happens, in order to select how i want to train my horse. i am able to decide how to train my horse thru my own study without dissing others. try it.

Sannois
Oct. 8, 2006, 11:52 AM
yeah, and if YOUR horse spooked, it would be because of the mean DQ with more money than you and friends with the judge, that rattled the gate to scare your darling horse, and somehow YOUR partnership with your horse would be unquestionable.

what a bunch of nonsense. the woman is pregnant, the police are the ones who always stop these horses, they also stopped invasor and plenty of other horses too.

the same has happened to klimke, balkenhol and all the rest of the non rollkurlers. try to get a different hobby. klimke wound up lying on his face in the dirt more than once at a show - you're twisting things. it happens to everyone.

horses are not robots. they occasionally get startled by things - ANY horse, rollkured or not.

look, i don't train my horse that way either, but i DON'T need to gossip about someone and make up ridiculous things about them or twist what happens, in order to select how i want to train my horse. i am able to decide how to train my horse thru my own study without dissing others. try it.
Taking this a little too personal aren't! Just my opinion Darling!!!
:lol: :winkgrin:

flamenco horse
Oct. 8, 2006, 12:07 PM
Jeesh, as tho this is something that's never happened in the international arena before! Yeh, the horse took off..... so what! Consider the atmosphere, the stress, the days/hours of confinement required to compete at this level and even the most sensible of horses could and have spooked. I'm just glad no one was hurt.

( I did hear Salinero looked very handsome in the striped suit tho. :lol: )

slc2
Oct. 8, 2006, 12:59 PM
is that all you got, sannois, when someone doesn't go along with this malarky? 'taking it too personal'? come on, you can do better than that? why don't you go back to the old standby's like anyone who doesn't agree with you beats their horse?

rumor has it salinero is hangin' with low friends in low places. rumor has it that in the lockup, he was seen conversing with a zebra.

Tiki
Oct. 8, 2006, 02:39 PM
My word do rumors get out of control!!!

Yeah, I saw the booking photos - front and side - with a number under them. They had him in 4 hoof irons, linked together so he couldn't trot away. They took his hoofprints and put them in the hoofprint computer for all time. He'll never be able to get a job in Grand Prix again with his police record.

Chevalnoir
Oct. 8, 2006, 03:10 PM
My horse did much the same sort of thing (though not as elegantly as Salinero, and I'm sure I didn't look as graceful as Anky :winkgrin: ) day before yesterday, when he spotted a potentially horse eating cow :eek: .

To be honest, I didn't really even for a moment think that this meant we had a crappy partnership - just sort of made a mental note that we must find a way to work on despooking for horse eating cows sometime in the near future.

How to despook for a stadium with 50,000 people screaming and clapping and waving stuff around might be a bit more daunting preposition. Wonder how many of the people filled with righteous indignation at Anky's failure to control her horse under those circumstances would want to ride their mount in that kind of place?

Not that they're likely to ever have to worry about it.....

Karoline
Oct. 8, 2006, 04:24 PM
But thats just not a pretty picture for an olympian. In fact its just plain strange! :eek: Sort of makes me think of the circus elephants when they have finally had enough they go ballistic! :no:


Stuff happens, horses will spook and some of our own riders have been known to change horses for the award ceremony to avoid precisely that issue. If you were at the Olympic try-outs a couple of years ago which had a much smaller crowd you would have seen all sort of spooking after the final halt and during the victory gallops. Some riders abstained altogether from even trying. Some riders, Leslie Morse come to mind showed how strong a rider she can be on her stallion who at one point kept bolting/she stopped -bolting/she stopped it as he tried to run out (she was done with her test) One horse Wallabee kept rearing, full blown on his hind legs rears during the ceremony and the second time around had a man on the ground holding him. Rider sat there with a huge grin on his face. I think the mare called Claire also did some acrobatics. There were a few moments when my heart was in my mouth.

saddlesurfer
Oct. 8, 2006, 04:50 PM
This exchange of posts answers the question on another thread....

"Why are so many replies mean on the dressage board?"

stolensilver
Oct. 8, 2006, 05:25 PM
One accusation thrown at the top dressage riders is that the jumping horses don't act up. Cobblers. :D The Horse of the Year Show is on the TV in the UK at the moment and you should have seen the horses who won the class last night in the presentation! Leaping, rearing, spinning. All of them were all over the place.

Horses will be horses. Especially in a big atmosphere. I'm glad Anky wasn't hurt. She must have been frightened to have shouted "help, help!"

Jenn2674
Oct. 8, 2006, 05:40 PM
I'm with slc, i don't get all this hate and bashing and just plain ugliness towards other people. I am so sick of it everywhere, not just with horses. Why do so many people have to hate or put down or ridicule one person just because they like another (politics come to mind)?

Jenn2674
Oct. 8, 2006, 05:42 PM
This exchange of posts answers the question on another thread....

"Why are so many replies mean on the dressage board?"

But this isn't restricted to dressage. Other disciplines are just as bad. People even have to put down a music band because they happen to like another one better (ya know the whole Led Zepplin rocks and Rolling Stones sucks and vice versa, phenomena).

bjrudq
Oct. 8, 2006, 07:04 PM
"Wonder how many of the people filled with righteous indignation at Anky's failure to control her horse under those circumstances would want to ride their mount in that kind of place?"

who was filled with righteous indignation???

pinecone
Oct. 8, 2006, 08:44 PM
I'm glad to see so many fair and reasonable responses to this thread, because Alexandra's post seemed particularly unfair and inappropriate, and I didn't miss the little dig from Sannois either.

There is no winning with some of the people on this board. Some people should simply add a signature line, or whatever it is called, that says "I hate Anky, period, and there is no reasoning with me."


Wonder how many of the people filled with righteous indignation at Anky's failure to control her horse under those circumstances would want to ride their mount in that kind of place?

Not that they're likely to ever have to worry about it.....

LOL, exactly!

Although I'm surprised nobody has yet chimed in to say how their Intro Level QH simply NEVER spooks and would handle crowds NO PROBLEM, and probably halts better than Salinero too (insert eye rolling LOL).

Ellie K
Oct. 8, 2006, 09:19 PM
I loved it the last time someone "innocently" started a thread about this same incident, and that OP claimed to be very opposed to rollkur yet did not know who Anky is :rolleyes:, then oh-so-passive-aggressively thanked her lucky stars that she knows how to stop a runaway no problem..whilst laughing hysterically of course. Come to think of it then that same OP posted in a Chris Reeve thread that whilst his accident was certainly a fluke, she was oh-so-glad that she knows how to fall off!!! Priceless.

Parysa
Oct. 8, 2006, 10:09 PM
Will someone explain how exactly, you go about arresting a horse? :lol: :lol:

Alagirl
Oct. 8, 2006, 10:16 PM
Will someone explain how exactly, you go about arresting a horse? :lol: :lol:


You lean'em against the trailer and have them spread their legs...:yes:

Carol O
Oct. 8, 2006, 10:20 PM
The Rolling Stones sooo don't suck!!!

bjrudq
Oct. 8, 2006, 11:03 PM
"I'm with slc, i don't get all this hate and bashing and just plain ugliness towards other people. I am so sick of it everywhere, not just with horses."

where did you see this on this thread?

is it hateful to note that someone's horse bolted?

i don't get it. i think you are reading somthing into some of the comments that isn't there. at all.

Horsedances
Oct. 8, 2006, 11:12 PM
I just read in HorseIllustrated that Salinero acted up at WEG and the police had to be called to deal with him. Does anyone have pics of this event? Wwere any of you there and can you give a first hand account.

Yes the Police arrested Anky and Salinero for going passed the speed-limit at Aachen

cheryl ann
Oct. 8, 2006, 11:33 PM
I'm waiting for the replay on Cops...especially the 'perp trot-out'.

What's the 'pony paddy wagon' look like? Dream Coach?

But seriously, relax, he/she is just a horse they all act up. They're animals. If all those horses were always controllable, they wouldn't need the horse cops there.

Alagirl
Oct. 9, 2006, 12:10 AM
I'm waiting for the replay on Cops...especially the 'perp trot-out'.

What's the 'pony paddy wagon' look like? Dream Coach?

But seriously, relax, he/she is just a horse they all act up. They're animals. If all those horses were always controllable, they wouldn't need the horse cops there.


You are just saying that to help the international coverup.

Truth is, Salinero was on his way to make a score....my sources tell me he was to meet a wellknown dealer in the area, wether to purchase Karotten or Zucker....

YoungFilly
Oct. 9, 2006, 12:19 AM
slc, I have never seen a post like this from you! What in the world!?

Dear, do you have your panities in a wad today? Did something happen to you?


is that all you got, sannois, when someone doesn't go along with this malarky? 'taking it too personal'? come on, you can do better than that? why don't you go back to the old standby's like anyone who doesn't agree with you beats their horse?

rumor has it salinero is hangin' with low friends in low places. rumor has it that in the lockup, he was seen conversing with a zebra.

Parysa
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:21 AM
You lean'em against the trailer and have them spread their legs...:yes:
So did he get sent to a "white collar" prison with carrot breaks, all-day pasture turnout and free-choice alfalfa since he's so well-known? :lol: :lol: :lol:

DJ
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:28 AM
Gee I didn't realize he had gotten in trouble. I was thinking that it was a thread about new kur music that he would be performing too. :lol::lol:

Parysa
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:45 AM
If it is "white collar" ,a friend of mines top show horse did time in one for a varity of crimes.He thought it would be a breeze...maybe plow the odd field, do some charity work pulling carts at local fairs, menial stuff like that.Sadly for him being pretty and a gelding,he ended up being some reining stallions bitch for the duration of his stay.Never recovered from it.Last I heard he was serving drinks in some seedy barn down south.
Oh, how the mighty fall. :no: But let that be a lesson to other horses. You do the crime, you're gonna do the time. :lol: :lol: :lol:

indyblue
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:36 AM
So did he get sent to a "white collar" prison with carrot breaks, all-day pasture turnout and free-choice alfalfa since he's so well-known? :lol: :lol: :lol:

If it is "white collar" ,a friend of mines top show horse did time in one for a varity of crimes.He thought it would be a breeze...maybe plow the odd field, do some charity work pulling carts at local fairs, menial stuff like that.Sadly for him being pretty and a gelding,he ended up being some reining stallions bitch for the duration of his stay.Never recovered from it.Last I heard he was serving drinks in some seedy barn down south.

raff
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:10 AM
Nah,he's at liberty,on parole teehee!

eurodressage
Oct. 9, 2006, 07:29 AM
There is a photo (and some text) of this scene at the bottom of this page:

http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/shows/2006/06weg/08-24-grandprix2-photo.html

slc2
Oct. 9, 2006, 10:14 AM
that's the police horse's job. to be there any time 'bumper cars' are needed. and gee, why would they be there all the time? BECAUSE - because it happens all the time. and it was during the award ceremony, when even some AMERICAN horses have taken off - oh my my my.

what WILL we find to gossip about TODAY?

bjrudq
Oct. 9, 2006, 11:48 AM
salinero actually looks beautiful in that picture...and she is sitting well. when a horse bolts, many of us tend to tense up and grab at the reins, she's not doing that in this pic...

"At the press conference she said "Salinero really got scared in the prize giving and I did as well. I did the fastest trip today," she joked. "

nice to see that anky has a better sense of humor than some of her slavish devotees...

slc2
Oct. 9, 2006, 11:58 AM
actually he looks fabulous, and frankly, i like that she didn't yank the crap out of him and set him down or cowboy him. something really startled him. balkenhol had the same thing with goldstern.

Daydream Believer
Oct. 9, 2006, 12:13 PM
Actually the one rein stop saved my ass on Saturday. I started out my lesson in a sweatshirt and felt like I had to take it off after we got warmed up. I asked my coach to hold my horse's rein while I took it off. It went OK until I pulled it over my helmet and my horse panicked for some reason. He leaped up and sideways and my coach lost the rein. He started to take off with me and my instinct was to pull his head to the right into the one rein stop he's been taught. He imediately gave to the bit and doubled around and stopped. He was anxious about the "monster" he saw come over my head but he settled down once I got him stopped. Without that one rein stop I would have been run off with, out of control and probably dumped.

Pulling straight back on a bolting terrified horse really doesn't help much curb bit or not....and it can happen to anyone regardless of how well trained their horse is or how good a rider they are. Horses panic sometimes...it is their nature.

Those "cowboy" tricks can be very useful. No harm in them and they can really save you from a bad wreck.

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 12:33 PM
i'm glad no one was hurt - that's the important thing.

but one question - why do such high calibre horses need bumper cars? i know i'm only a lowly foxhunter - but runaways are NEVER tolerated in the hunt field - and neither is using other horses as bumper cars. and when i evented this was NOT done either.

i realize the dynamic is different of course - nothing like a few thousand screaming fans to get a horses blood up.

on the other hand - being in a field of 80+ extremely fit horses on a cold frosty morning - hounds are screaming - horn blowing, and we're at a hard gallop in a huge hayfield surrounded by deer hunters shooting at deer.

and the horses blood is up too - and all their herd instincts are at a peak. and most certainly they are not as beautifully trained as an olympic level horse. and yet - butter wouldn't melt in their mouth - even the crazy thoroughbreds (green horses excepted)

i'm not picking on anky - i would have asked this question regardless of the rider. regardless of training or discipline - runaways happen for all sorts of reasons. but i am suprised, given the level and exquisite training, that this issue would be common enough to warrant polices horses being stationed to stop runaways.

Daydream Believer
Oct. 9, 2006, 01:04 PM
JSwan...I will say that I am shocked to hear that she screamed for help and ran into other horses. That is very dangerous and I remember one of the worst wrecks I ever saw years ago in an eventing warmup ring where a horse ran away out of control and crashed into another horse. The horse that got run into had to be destroyed and both riders were injured. I'm glad no one was hurt in this instance.

What was so funny about my incident Saturday was that I had friends there watching my lesson and I had just discussed the one rein stop with them as they have a horse that is bolting. They got a great demonstration that I never planned! Later, I showed them how to teach it first from the ground so the horse learns to give to the rein and later how to confirm it under saddle.

slc2
Oct. 9, 2006, 01:17 PM
I think its for the very reason that slc pointed out. People think it's "stupid cowboy tricks" to teach your horse how to stop when it bolts and runs away. Instead they want to focus on piaffe, passage, and piourettes and leave the stupid cowboy tricks to the tobacco spitting people wearing straw hats.


That isn't what i said at all. AT ALL AT ALL AT ALL. when, two simple, are you going to stop changing what you read to fit your reality? i NEVER said any of that.

WHAT I SAID was that i was glad that she didn't yank the snot out of the horse and set him down like i've seen some cowboys do - i'm sure if she did that instead of going down to the police horse end of the ring, you all would have had PLENTY to say about that too!

frankly, after listening to you gossipy women for so many months, i'm not too sure there is ANYTHING that Anky van Grunsven could do that you WOULDN'T bitch about. you bitch about her having kids, if she didn't, you'd bitch that she wasn't having any kids. if the horse stood still, you'd say he was 'robotlike' and 'had all his will taken away from him by rollkur'. if he ran off, you'd say she stopped him too roughly. if he stopped, it would be because he was too tired after rollkur to respond to his own instincts. if he DIDN'T stop, it would be because she rides like shit. there basically, isn't any end to the crap.

Yes, and don't forget that when I said here that our lesson horses at one barn were 'chain trained' the old way to not run away (rider jumps off, horse is jerked to a stop immediately with longe line with chain), there was a huge loud hue and cry here about THAT too! oh that's CRUEL! you guys can't have it both ways - except in your own alternate reality.

and in fact, while 'chain training' made the horses safer, it didn't make a single one of them never run off or never dump a rider. despite that, on any cold day, we were likely to have horses and riders flying around like tiddlywinks. what it did was to try and HELP safety.

i would defy ANY of you - ANY - to ride in that environment and never have your horse scoot off due to being startled, take Salinero, take Briar, hell, take any of balkenhols - shit, take your off the track thoroughbred or your quarter horse or even your old school horse or your arab or any of your perfect little horses, they'd be shaking in their shoes in one of those big rings under the lights with stadium and all. i'd like to see ANY of you control your horse half as well in all that buzz. and the first place they're going is to their herd - the police horses, standing still, are the safe herd. by the out gate. that's why they're there. and no it is as safe as it can get - the police horses are trained to do that and that is their job. that's why they are there. frankly, there isn't a race, event or a kiddie's saddle club show that doesn't need that police horse zone.

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 01:27 PM
Post #41: "but one question - why do such high calibre horses need bumper cars? i know i'm only a lowly foxhunter - but runaways are NEVER tolerated in the hunt field - and neither is using other horses as bumper cars. and when i evented this was NOT done either. "

I don't know. I'm thinking of other professional riders:

Edgar Prado on Barbaro: saved the horses life by stopping in two strides at a full out racing gallop without much in the way of a bit and even less at practicing halt transitions. FUTURE CAREER OPPORTUNITIES if sat there instead and yelled "stop, stop": hey, sure, trainers and owners would just line up. Translation, he'd never see another ride on any track even in the bush league.

Jockey on Charismatic: saved the horses life by stopping in two strides at a full out racing stride, valuable horse saved and able to start a stallion career. FUTURE CAREER OPPORTUNITIES if sat there instead and yelled "stop, stop": hey, sure, Belmont and all top owners of multi-million dollar horses loves riders like that.

Julie Krone, women jockey, if ever sat there instead and yelled "stop, stop": would have set women rider's back one hundred years. Julie's FUTURE CAREER OPPORTUNITIES: none.

Anky's FUTURE CAREER OPPORTUNITIES: oh sure, that Sal is sooo hot and uncontrollable, my god, and that bad-boy wild canter on him. So, when can Anky ride again?

And after viewing Sal's photo, I don't understand yelling at the top of your lungs either, doesn't that always tend to make horsie wanna go?

I'm just glad the police horses were all okay, I read that on order of the commander all horses turned their rumps towards Sal and formed a line at the exit. A horse could get a broken pelvis/hip that way, I'm glad all horses were okay.

I'm thinking what would have happened had Prado been on Sal: Prado would have looked around and said, hey Sallie, you call that moving? You better stop fooling around before you hurt yourself. No doubt any self respecting jockey would have had that horse stopped on a dime, and the jockey would have called the spot. Notice the bit they're used to (not unlike a hunter or eventer) and the leg aides they have to work with.

So I'm with the above J Swan post 41 quote -- I don't know. Lots of training goes into police horses, I hope they were all okay.

slc2
Oct. 9, 2006, 01:34 PM
stopping a horse in a race when its leg is broken is a little different from that situation.

i think you need to get up on that horse and find out how much better you are than anky at handling it. i will personally finance your trip to europe and boost you up into the saddle myself, right before the award ceremony. and you just have at it and prove to all of them how really ignorant and incompetent they really are.

i'll also pay for your funeral, and headstone, with an inscription of your choice.

Sannois
Oct. 9, 2006, 01:37 PM
I personally don't give two flying rat's asses WHO was on board that horse. I wouldn't care if it was a jumper, a reining rider, a western pleasure rider, or a dressage rider. What she did was completely unacceptable by all stretches of the imagination.

Stopping a run away horse is NEVER a bad idea. Run away horses are DANGEROUS beyond belief. Their adrenaline surges, their flight instict takes over, and they will run over and through obstacles out of sheer panic if the problem isn't stopped before it escalates to such.

And slamming your horse into another horse is NOT an acceptable way of stopping. Never. Even a police horse. Salinero's hoof could have broken a cannon bone on one of the police horses. The riders could have been jolted from the saddle and trampled to death. Spectators could have been trampled.

She had an obligation to stop that horse in the ring before he collided with somebody, and she didn't even try, as far as I can tell. I see a photo of her in a wide mouth scream with slack reins. How in the hell is that doing ANYHTING to stop the horse? Screaming is the #1 ultimate NO NO to do when a horse is panicked. You do not scream, as it only escalates the situation. Anky's sreaming shows that she is truly terrified of the animal, and she obviously has no business riding it until she learns how to deal with the hot nature of the animal.

And yes, slc, my horse has SCOOTED OFF as you put it, with me on board. And scooted off nothing - try full out gallop after a bolt. But I sure as heck don't sit there like a dim wit and scream at the top of my lunges. I engage a one rein stop, circle the horse until it stops. An olympic sized arena is plenty enough room to circle the horse.
for that! I did not say near that much yesterday and was read the riot act by slc!
I just loked at the picture, it looks like no effort on her part to stop the animal! Yelling Help??? That is really surprising!

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 01:48 PM
thank you Two Simple.

I already stopped a couple horses in the open field at a full out gallop, not unlike what J Swan was alluding to.

And yes, slc2, the racehorse would have eventually stopped or more precisely fallen. But the key was how QUICKLY the jockey is able to stop the stride and keep weight off the injured leg. They are able to stop IMMEDIATELY stopping further damage. When every next stride is a death sentence, I thank all jockeys for just not sitting there yelling "stop stop."

EDITED TO ADD: On second thought, I'm in no position to thank jockeys, it could sound condescending. I honor them and their skills.

slc2
Oct. 9, 2006, 01:54 PM
this is getting even better; you're all convincing eachother now!

alright, let's get that trainer over there, then, if you're too cowardly to do it. i'll pay. let's just see how terribly right you are. i'd LOVE to see some cowboy try to stop something that weighs double what his reiners do, and double what a race horse does and on as much feed, and fit to work 45 min instead of 2, trained to balance like that, and not an awkward two or three year old but a seasoned horse with years of fitness behind it, how they stop them with their little one rein stop.

my GOD if any of you get better at judging other people, we'll have to start a new tv show for you.

only one problem. none of the other riders would allow it to happen, because you would be putting everyone else in the ring in danger, too.

Daydream Believer
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:13 PM
slc...it's not about how much the horse weighs...it's about leverage and dymanics. A warmblood is no more formidable than a runaway TB or a barrel racing horse out of control. I also could care less if it was Anky or RK on that horse and I am not being critical because she does rollkur. I do think anyone who knows a one rein stop or who was accustomed to handling rank runaways could have put him under control without running into another horse. Quite a few of us have experience galloping horses and we've had our share of runaways to stop in the past so we are speaking from our own experience and not just some nice theory we read about.

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:14 PM
from slc2, post 52: "let's just see how terribly right you are."

For a look at the race horses, just go to the video tape. Here's another way to stop a horse that Two Simple didn't mention yet, and it's not very complicated:

- watch the shoulder, like when you post and see the shoulder go forward and back.

- pick a shoulder, whichever side you want.

- when the shoulder is moving forward, the leg is in mid air. Wait til the leg is in mid air.

- from a loose rein (Anky did get that part right) take all your weight (or as much as you need, I did have a rubber bit in horsie's mouth last time I did this) on that side and pull abruptly back. Keep it there a while, do not release right away. The horse must break his stride, horse cannot complete stride.

- horse's stride has been broken. Now you can circle horsie or come to a dead halt, whichever you are better with.

And yes, you can use your leg aides to help. And yes, be careful if your bit is harsh or with curb and apply the initial abrupt pull-back pressure accordingly.

greysandbays
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:19 PM
alright, let's get that trainer over there, then, if you're too cowardly to do it. i'll pay. let's just see how terribly right you are.

i'd LOVE to see some cowboy try to stop something that weighs double what his reiners do,
Not all "cowboy horses" are reiners. Some of 'em are big enough to drag a 1,000# steer out of a bog....
and double what a race horse does and on as much feed,
But can only run one-fourth as fast...

and fit to work 45 min instead of 2,
Most working cowboy horses are expected to be able to go all day, never mind 45 piddly minutes...

trained to balance like that, how they stop them with their little one rein stop.
Oh, he'd stop the horse alright. A person gets a whole more practical with their horse handling when they are out on the open range actually WORKING with a horse than they do just prancing around in competition in pursuit of accolades.

:rolleyes:

LE
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:28 PM
I loved it the last time someone "innocently" started a thread about this same incident, and that OP claimed to be very opposed to rollkur yet did not know who Anky is :rolleyes:, then oh-so-passive-aggressively thanked her lucky stars that she knows how to stop a runaway no problem..whilst laughing hysterically of course. Come to think of it then that same OP posted in a Chris Reeve thread that whilst his accident was certainly a fluke, she was oh-so-glad that she knows how to fall off!!! Priceless.

EllieK, if you have a problem with me, you can contact me directly.

I do not agree with the CONCEPT of rollkur. So, if I disagree with rollkur, based on the information I have at this time, that some how makes me hate Anky? I'd never seen ANky ride until they showed highlights of the WEG, and honestly never understood all this shit surrounding her. If you want to jump on someone's bandwagon and follow them blindly, go for it. That's your mindless choice. I, on the other hand, prefer to continue learning new methods, but only try them once I have researched them. Anky didn't invent rollkur. It's been around for ages, and I am still researching the benefits to this training.
As for runaways, yes, I've had my share. When I had my first runaway, it freaked me out. After that, meh. Now, I don't know Salinero, or the conditions regarding Anky's situation---they never showed this on tv. My post was in regards to a PHOTOGRAPH(people here REALLY need to READ posts) in an INTERNATIONAL MAGAZINE. If Anky had been hurt, I doubt they would have printed it. Also, she is pregnant. So what? Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Riding pregnant is a choice. She chose to do ALL of this with a horse that, as it turns out, had done this a few times before. Hello?? If I KNEW my horse could get strong/uncontrolable, and I KNEW I was pregnant, I wouldn't be doing a victory gallop. I thought this was a first time situation until someone else mentioned it had happened before. Hmmm.
As for falling, yes, I know how to fall. Meaning, if and when I fall, I just relax and am lucky my body is short enough that I don't land the way a 6'4 rider would.

Honestly, YOU need a life if you follow me around, reading my posts. That's sad and creepy all at once. Maybe you lot should go and ride more, and let Anky's successes be her defence. She's a top rider, has a lovely horse(I'm sure she has more, I just only saw Salinero), will soon have a lovely baby and if our sports channel was correct, she will be doing some clinics abroad. I think that says more than any of your immature, flaming defensive posts on someone none of you know.

egontoast
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:33 PM
HSSSST pffffftt wet cats in a bag!:lol:

fargo
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:35 PM
This is the third time that this same event is leading to a long post. I think I will start it again under yet another title in a month or so. Then we can all react yet again. Wouldn't that be fun? :eek:

Horsedances
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:42 PM
This is the third time that this same event is leading to a long post. I think I will start it again under yet another title in a month or so. Then we can all react yet again. Wouldn't that be fun? :eek:

A title like :

Anky leaves Sjef for a German police-man !

and you will hit the charts.

Theo

slc2
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:46 PM
yes, Two Simple, and guess what else? In the REAL WORLD, not every run away can and should be stopped, and I have seen wonderful trainers and experts - cowboys, dressage riders, jumper riders, saddle seat riders, who got run away with.

In many situations, the one rein stop can lame or throw a horse down, and such tricks are not the answer for every situation, especially in a small area where you know the horse can safely come to a stop without it. In many cases, I would FAR rather yell, help and go for the bumper cars, ESPECIALLY if i was a couple months pregnant. It all depends on the situation, for all you know the horse spurted up, and Anky just let him go, knowing it was safer to just let him run out on a straight line, but in most cases, the last thing I'd want to do is anything that would make the horse stumble or go down if i was riding an upper level horse or was pregnant.

And guess what? Anky was ridng these big strong horses before you were born, unless you're as old as your judging-others stick-in-the-mud posts suggest, and has broke plenty of brumbies, and won her young rider on a hot-as-spitfire Thoroughbred, and grew up riding jumpres, and guess what? I think she knows what to do in these situations. For all I know she could have cared less and just let him have some fun, And whatever she did, I think for the situation was probably fine.

My friend did a one rein stop and broke her leg in six places, and sure, go ahead and tell me that you know how better than her.

There is always the assumption that these riders just ride in the ring and do a test, and can't ride for shit if something goes wrong. I invite any of you to come to one of those barns and find out that for the most part, you're wrong - how do you think they got to where they are today? These people for the most part are able to deal with things that would make you leap off and run under your bed screaming.

But the thing is, you love so much being wrong, it's be hard to make a dent in it.

egontoast
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:47 PM
This is the third time that this same event is leading to a long post. I think I will start it again under yet another title in a month or so. Then we can all react yet again. Wouldn't that be fun? :eek:


Yeah, this same discussion has been done over and over several times on different boards , always someone is APALLED or is a Better Rider or some such nonsense. If you reply to the nonsense, you are an Anky slave. :confused:

Whatever.

Carry on.... it's terribly interesting. I want to see Too Simplistic and Slc in the mudpit. I'll pay big bucks and it can be donated to a fund to sponsor riders conceived in NA. There must be proof that the swimmers reached their goal within NA boundaries.

fiona
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:54 PM
Because a horse physically CANNOT run when his hindquarters are disengaged and crossing over each other. I
When the hind legs of a horse cross over each other, it is physically impossible to keep running.

When you exert extreme force on one rein, you can and WILL double the horse. In other words, you will do a 180 and whip the horse right around.

Do you really think a rider on a competitive medal winning Olympic horse is going to do that?
Two words spring to mind: Suspensory Ligaments
Thing is if you're pulling up a race horse with a broken leg it's already stuffed. She wasn't.

Whatever this woman does you guys jump all over her, if she'd whipped the horse round like you describe it would have been all over the press, if she pulled it up with one rein it would have been all over the press. She can't do right for doing wrong why don't you get off her case now and find some new focus for your hate.

LE
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:58 PM
slc---why do you feel you have to defend Anky? Aren't her successes proof enough that she knows what she is doing? And maybe she made a tactical error in perhaps taking a hot horse in a victory gallop, after the animal had already displayed this behavior before. I thought it was ironic---when I saw the photo and she had just won a medal, and she couldn't stop her horse. It to me, was nice to tell my riders 'hey, all the medals in the world cant' stop a horse from being a horse'. Horses are unpredictable. However, when I found out this was his third or fourth time bolting.....um, hello? I think perhaps a better choice for a victory/awards ceremony would have been ok for her to choose, given that she was pregnant. After finding that out, I think she made a big error in taking Salinero in the ceremony. Oh well. She even joked about it, so that's that. It's done, over and I'm sure she's moved on. Why anyone else can't is beyond me.

Why is it that if someone observes something, that it's bashing a rider??? When did this all get to be if you acknowledged something with Anky it means you hate her? We're not in kindergarten kids.

For slc-that's nice. EllieK is a top rider...so what? Ever heard of manners and eloquence?

slc2
Oct. 9, 2006, 02:58 PM
LE, you need to read a little more carefully. I am not defending Anky van Grunsven at all. I am criticizing a bunch of gossipy, ignorant statements. everyone hates a winner, they say, especially if she's not american and didn't ride a cowpony to victory.

Also - Funny on you, LE. Ellie K. is one of the top riders in the United States, has been doing the FEI for quite a long time, and started and trained one of the best young horses that went to the FEI young horse tests, one of the top scoring american bred horses that ever competedin the yh fei at all. and if i had a choice of who i thought was more knowledgeable, you or Ellie, i think i'd pick ellie. I love the part where you tell her to ride more....

she's not following you and reading your posts like a creepy stalker as you imply - you are posting on a public web site and she is disagreeing with your absurd pov. that doesn't make her a stalker.

LOL. This just gets better and better. You GO girl.

Daydream Believer
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:01 PM
Fiona...As for Salinero getting hurt....is his life or soundness worth the life of any human being like those mounted police officers or someone on the ground who might have gotten trampled? I don't think so and I'd hate to think anyone here would think so. Wrecks like that can be fatal for both people and horses.

Actually I would have been very impressed if she had stopped him in his tracks and set him on his ass instead of letting him run over two police horses.

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:01 PM
"Do you really think a rider on a competitive medal winning Olympic horse is going to do that? "

All you have to do is as described in post 54: block the horse's stride. It's not brain surgery on the dynamics, and there's no need to cry "injury" to an Olympic level horse.

I'm equally sure jockeys can stop a non-injured horse,however there was enough strides left in both examples I gave -- their quick thinking in not letting anymore impact from strides going on the injured legs did save both horse's lives. Thank god those horses both had capable riders. And the power and implusion in those racing strides, even with injury -- was so much more than anything my buddy Sal was putting out.

kkj
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:01 PM
Good one Theo. I'd get in on that trainwreck.

I think most (if not all) of you could not ride Salinero. Not in a very controlled environment like a small arena with no spooky stuff around and padded walls. Anky is, whatever you guys think, a very talented rider. Salinero is a freakishly talented but hot and difficult horse. Those of you who think you could ride him and stop him better, they have drugs for those delusions.

And I don't think screaming was that unreasonable either. It serves to warn people that a huge uncontrolled horse is running at them.

LE
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:04 PM
slc--that's nice. Still doesn't mean someone can't have manners and eloquence. And if she's so busy, why has she managed to follow all my posts? Sorry, I have a life and don't give a rats ass about your other posts or anyone elses here. I pop by, read, add a comment, and am on my way. Following people takes time and any busy trainer doesn't have that.

LE
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:06 PM
kkj---this is what I don't get. NOONE is saying Anky isn't a good rider!!! Why is it when an observation is made, this woman's followers feel we are critisizing her abilities. Sheesh!

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:15 PM
"And I don't think screaming was that unreasonable either. It serves to warn people that a huge uncontrolled horse is running at them."

Good one -- let's everybody scream when a horse takes off at a USDF show. That oughtta calm the horse down. Gee, and the old warning was a loud, "Head's Up."

kkj
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:16 PM
LE I am not an Anky follower. I don't even really like her; I don't like Rolkur; I can't stand her husband. However, I respect her and know she can ride the pants off of the people on this bb. You don't have to worship someone to acknowledge that they are very good at something.

I guess we (Anky followers) assume implicit in the attack that she could not stop Salinero is the assertion that she is a moron poser fool who can put on a good show but cannot ride for her life in real life out of the arena on the hunt field, on the race track in your trashy backyard or wherever. Perhaps it is because some of you insist that you can stop any horse anytime or perhaps it is because so many of you have called her a moron poser fool who can not ride out of the arena (no not in those exact words but you get the jest) so many times before on so many other threads.

If you assert that an Olympic Gold Medalist cannot control her horse, but little old nobody you sure could and easily at that, well then you are the moron fool.

perpetual_novice
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:18 PM
You folks are just no fun at all. There were so many possibilities here, running from the obvious, "Law and Order: WEG Unit", to "Sting joins Madonna in her Riding Endeavors". Aunt Esther could even have commented on a suitable gift for Salineo to give to the police horses, "What is the appropriate present to give a horse you have rammed into without being formally intoduced?"

But no, y'all had to get all nasty about it.

This is more like it ...


A title like :

Anky leaves Sjef for a German police-man !

Theo

fargo
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:26 PM
Yes Perpetual novice; that's more like it, but alas it is for the topic to be started about this same event a month from now. You'll have to be patient!! More fun to come!

LE
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:27 PM
I would NEVER imply that anyone couldn't ride just because they couldn't stop their horse! Anky, from the short spot I saw of her riding, is a lovely rider. I don't agree with rollkur at this time either, and I never would have known about either unless for this BB. Whenever Rollkur was mentioned, Anky's name came up.

My take on this situation was, most likely, Anky was truly caught off guard. Probably relaxed in the ceremony, was maybe not feeling 100%..who knows! I would never judge someone by this---I just was giggly at the photo I saw(long before I knew the whole story) at the irony of it. I mean, it IS a giggle for ANY rider...you do well, win ribbons/medals/whatever, yet--we still fall off, we still have days where we just can't find the 'zone' and so forth. I thought it was somewhat comforting to know that top riders also have those days, and to let other people know that if you keep on riding through those problems, look at what you can achieve.

I don't think anyone is imply Anky can't ride here. Sure, people will wonder why she didn't stop him via method A,b,c---even I wondered how you couldn't stop a horse with a double bridle, but I can wonder that and still respect that this woman is an amazingly talented rider.

And FYI--this is the only take off/bolt I've heard of in a magazine. Never heard of Milton taking off, and if a rider is aware their horse can get excited, I don't think I'd be looking down on that rider to take a different horse in to the awards ceremony.

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:29 PM
"If you assert that an Olympic Gold Medalist cannot control her horse, but little old nobody you sure could and easily at that, well then you are the moron fool."

I don't know about morons, but this seems to be an oxymoron: "an Olympic Gold Medalist cannot control her horse" :)

I think the comments were more like: (1) many people have had runaway horses and (2) most people have a way of stopping them, horses of all temperaments and speed/impulsion, and (3) it's EVERY riders' responsibility to atleast TRY and gain control so not to injure other parties.

Anyway, I'm outta here. I'm glad the police horses and all concerned seem to be fine.

alexandra
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:40 PM
I'm glad to see so many fair and reasonable responses to this thread, because Alexandra's post seemed particularly unfair and inappropriate, and I didn't miss the little dig from Sannois either.

There is no winning with some of the people on this board. Some people should simply add a signature line, or whatever it is called, that says "I hate Anky, period, and there is no reasoning with me."



LOL, exactly!

Although I'm surprised nobody has yet chimed in to say how their Intro Level QH simply NEVER spooks and would handle crowds NO PROBLEM, and probably halts better than Salinero too (insert eye rolling LOL).

Excuse me, why was my comment particularly unfair and inappropriate ?
The fact is: the horse took of in an environment that was for sure not that easy to take, but a lot of others pretty well were able to (there is a beautiful picture or that swiss guy on his mount in the middle of the ceremony with loose reins and the horse seems happy and relaxed - as it did during the test). I could scan it and post it on my homepage if somebody is interested.
The fact is it really freed itself out of the control of any rider aids
The fact is his rider was screaming help because she must have known she had no chance at all to get back to control
The fact is if the policemen (and their job certainly was not to stand there and wait for ny rider not able to control his/her horse anymore) stopped Salinero and prevented him gallopping right through a crowd
Fact is the horse is never showing a good halt and I do not care. If she gets a zero for it as for in "the lection was not shown". Ok with me. That is what single marks are for.
Fact is I am not at all envious of Anky von Grunsvens riding skills. I admire people like Mr. Philippe Karl, Mr. Hinrichs and Bent Brederup, I admire and envy that mexican rider in the finals on her mount. I really loved the ride of Kira Kirklund at the Weg and that of others.

I have throughout my life sat on various horses and oportunities. Rode in race horse training including fast galopps, I have done foxhunting, I have ridden in parades between Marschmusic bands and so on. In no and I repeat no situation I have sat on my mount and screamed for help. I have never ever in my life stirred my horse against others to stop it. If I had a horse taking of I rode towards a wall or something like that if nothing else helped, but never into horses let alone people.

I have also ridden horses that I wanted to do something and that escaped me by doing the same sort of thing - escaping. So I know what I am talking about when I say the horse was "happy once getting out of control".

I do not understand why people on this board freak out just because people name the truth and why they are rude against those.

I have seen that take off various times on TV and not just on pics and I am riding long enough to be able to judge what I see. For me any rider being a world champion should be able to control his horse. This is basics as someone said. I do not care who it is. Could have been also Isabell Werth or Ingrid Klimke or whoever, my opinion would be the same. And there is no question in which discipline one is a world champion you have to be able to control your horse. This is what especially dressage is about.
I perfectly well remember some shows Nicole Uphoff and Rembrandt were at. Her father was pacing next to the warm up arena and send all people away that in his eyes would disturb Rembrandt. She entered the main arena an he spooked at anything he could detect. In a second test I was standing close to the ring and he came up to me and told me to move. I told him I paid for the ticket, the place I stood was not a forbidden place and that I would think that any rider would need to be able to control his horse otherwise he was in eyesnot a good rider. He looked at me quite astonished.


A question: what is a one rein stop ? Do not now that english expression.

egontoast
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:42 PM
I am apalled and shocked

What, again, already?

LE
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:44 PM
Alexandra, two simple and sm--thank you!!! Reasonable people.
I'm off to enjoy our thanksgiving here!

Daydream Believer
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:54 PM
Alexandra...just for you!

http://www.naturalhorsesupply.com/onereinstop.shtml

http://www.johnlyonscertified.com/page10.html

fiona
Oct. 9, 2006, 03:55 PM
I'm off to enjoy our thanksgiving here!

is that that thing where you count your blessings, give thanks for all the good things in your life and generally resolve to give it a better shot next year? Sort of like going to church but not making the connection with being christian?

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 04:15 PM
ahem - my post was not only non confrontational - it was sincere. i would appreciate an explanation as to why this is done in dressage - as NO other sport i know of has this need.

i don't care who was riding - or who the horse was or what method of training is used.

olympic level eventers do not require bumper car horses - and neither do their riders scream help like a little girl with a skinned knee. i'm trying to compare apples and apples - event horses are extraordinarily fit, very much hyped up in the arena - and are as capable of running off as a dressage horse - yet i do not recall police horses at any high level competition that i've witnessed.

i am not asserting that i am a better rider than anky - actually - i don't think anyone is. nor am i suggesting that any rider use abusive techniques in training. however - as a horseman - using another horse to stop your own is unsafe, unsportsmanlike, and simply - unacceptable. it is the riders responsibility to control their horse - and sometimes that means dropping your form and making the horse mind. any horseman understands the one rein stop - the emergency stop - the emergency dismount.

i don't buy the "dressage is special and you wouldn't understand" notion. basic principles of riding transcend all horse sports.

sooooo anyone care to educate me on why police horses are used at such competitions to be the bumper cars?

alexandra
Oct. 9, 2006, 04:29 PM
ahem - my post was not only non confrontational - it was sincere. i would appreciate an explanation as to why this is done in dressage - as NO other sport i know of has this need.

i don't care who was riding - or who the horse was or what method of training is used.

olympic level eventers do not require bumper car horses - and neither do their riders scream help like a little girl with a skinned knee. i'm trying to compare apples and apples - event horses are extraordinarily fit, very much hyped up in the arena - and are as capable of running off as a dressage horse - yet i do not recall police horses at any high level competition that i've witnessed.

i am not asserting that i am a better rider than anky - actually - i don't think anyone is. nor am i suggesting that any rider use abusive techniques in training. however - as a horseman - using another horse to stop your own is unsafe, unsportsmanlike, and simply - unacceptable. it is the riders responsibility to control their horse - and sometimes that means dropping your form and making the horse mind. any horseman understands the one rein stop - the emergency stop - the emergency dismount.

i don't buy the "dressage is special and you wouldn't understand" notion. basic principles of riding transcend all horse sports.

sooooo anyone care to educate me on why police horses are used at such competitions to be the bumper cars?

I can tell you why we have often at those real big shows police horses:
First of all the police likes to show presence to get attention by horse people and normal people to gain support as the state wnts to cut costs and get rid of them.
This is because the horses do a hell of a job if used e.g. in front of football(soccer) stadiums or at demonstrations e.g. against atomic energy. People have much more respect of them than of these waterthrowing cars or policemen walking around with a stick. It is psychological. People are afraid of the huge animal. People are scared to throw stones at those animals. People like them, want to pat them and calm down.
At the big horse shows they like to have police on the ground and to make it easier the are from the mounted police. The state Aachen is located in always had mounted police. It is the state that also Klaus Balkenhohl and his horse worked for. So it is also a traditional thing. The same counts for Lower Saxony in which Verden is located. At the world champion chips for young dressage horses in Verden there was also mounted police present. (And they sort of disturbed Sir Donnerhall, but that is another story of a show horse and the mounted police).
They patrol e.g. to control/stirring the people leaving or coming to the grounds as one can see much farther from a horse than from being within the crowd. So: no we do not have specail bumper police horses...

fiona
Oct. 9, 2006, 04:38 PM
sometimes that means dropping your form and making the horse mind. any horseman understands the one rein stop - the emergency stop - the emergency dismount.


So you are saying she should have socked the horse in the jawbone using extreme force down one rein as described above pulling the horse into a torqued 180 degree turn and thrown herself to the ground?

Or steered towards the stationary police horses trained in riot control and football crowd marshalling whilst calling for help in getting people out of her way so she could deal with the situation? They weren't there as "bumper cars" as you very well know.

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 04:40 PM
aha!!

so the story is that this is "normal" and is good pr for mounted police. that makes sense. usually in the us when you see a mounted unit at a show it's because they are going to do a demonstration - you don't really see working law enforcement unless they are doing traffic control. not at horse shows, anyway.

so was anky riding a true runaway and the photo only captures the moment in which she gave up and asked for help or did the horse run away with her and she made no attempt to stop it? if she made no attempt to stop it - tsk tsk - she should know better.


oh - have you ever heard of Osterholz-Scharmbeck? it's a little town near Bremen. i used to live there.

alexandra
Oct. 9, 2006, 04:57 PM
off-topic:
J Swan - you are teasing me ... do you speak the language ? More than Aha ?
My best friends originally come from Lilienthal where they used to have a farm. Not to far away from Osterholz I think. Last Thursday I was in a small village close to Hepstedt. A friend test rode a horse there.


Mounted police at horse shows - yes PR and also some usage. Oh and I remember a time when some animal rights people were gainst 3day eventing and were puuting themselves in chains and onto the jumps at Luhmühlen (know that littlely village ?)

Oakstable
Oct. 9, 2006, 05:11 PM
I'm guessing that a "one rein stop" is the same as a "pulley rein."

I foxhunted many years ago on a TB. I was a novice rider but was taught the pulley rein. Basically, you put your hand with one rein on the saddle above the withers, and you take the other rein and pull it back towards the back end of the horse, turning his neck tightly so he cannot keep going forward, in theory.

I know one time I had to head my Teddy into bushes as I could not stop him. The field of horses was galloping ahead of me, and Teddy wanted to do what he was bred to do, race.

A runaway is exhilerating and terrifying at the same time.


Are there photos online of Anky running her horse into police horses?

egontoast
Oct. 9, 2006, 05:18 PM
No there are no photos of that because it didn't happen.

alexandra
Oct. 9, 2006, 05:19 PM
egontoast - right I forgot... sorry for that.
anyone want chocolates ?

Dressage Art
Oct. 9, 2006, 05:26 PM
One way stop is fantastic if you don't mind riping open the horse's mouth. I've seen it done plenty of times. I even have a video of that trick. The ripped lips take around 3 weeks to heal and horses do not go back on the bit easy or have much trust in the rider hands after that. It's not a good thing for dressage riders. Remember that in dressage from 2006 year there are no blood at all permitted on the horse, not even from the one hand stops.

Oh, and I'll have a Godiva with coffee please.

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 05:32 PM
sorry - i'd still use a pulley rein - if that horse has a habit of running off with its rider when it gets too excited - yup - he must mind his manners. prince or pauper - they must all mind their manners. if they can't or won't - then it must be resolved by whatever training method you prefer - no excuses.

if anky ever comes to the us to foxhunt - will someone please tell her there is NO screaming in the field. hold hard, heads up, rider down, is ok. if you're being run off with - we'll all be aware of it long before you manage to get a scream out!

alexandra - yes, i used to live in osterholz. bremen was the closest big town, and i'd take the train and shop all day in der schnoor. i sang in a german choir, rode at the local stable, and absolutely loved it. the autumn kohl und pinkle, gluwine, long bicycle rides, taking the train everywhere - and i used to speak very good german. i'd be at the post office or butcher and americans would come up to me and ask if i spoke english. i'd reply - geez - i'm an american! i guess i blended in too well with the locals!

lovely country. a wee bit cold and wet up north - but lovely nonetheless.

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 05:38 PM
what!? i have been riding for 30 years and have had to use a pulley rein several times on runaways. i have never caused any damage to my horses mouth. none of them bled or had ripped lips - but i tell you what - we were both in one piece and so were my fellow riders.

is this another version of "it's a dressage thing and you wouldn't understand"? hogwash. if your version of dressage allows a rider to be so permissive as to allow runaways as a matter of course - then i'd say it's the rider who should be scored on submission and not the horse.


One way stop is fantastic if you don't mind riping open the horse's mouth. I've seen it done plenty of times. I even have a video of that trick. The ripped lips take around 3 weeks to heal and horses do not go back on the bit easy or have much trust in the rider hands after that. It's not a good thing for dressage riders. Remember that in dressage from 2006 year there are no blood at all permitted on the horse, not even from the one hand stops.

Oh, and I'll have a Godiva with coffee please.

Dressage Art
Oct. 9, 2006, 05:40 PM
sorry - i'd still use a pulley rein - if that horse has a habit of running off with its rider when it gets too excited - yup - he must mind his manners. prince or pauper - they must all mind their manners. if they can't or won't - then it must be resolved by whatever training method you prefer - no excuses.



That's an extremist point of view don't you think? Do you beat your horses on the head with the baseball bat if they rear also? Are you one of those people who beat their horses in to the submittion at any cost?

Also this is the very first time that I've heard of Salinero running away - is this considered a "habit" in your book already?

What are the similarities of foxhunting and dressage anyway?

fiona
Oct. 9, 2006, 05:57 PM
then it must be resolved by whatever training method you prefer - no excuses.


Isn't that what she got such *&&&%! for in the first place?

egontoast
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:03 PM
STOP!

Stop being so logical you, you ,you

ANKY WORHIPPING SLAVE HO!

Horsedances
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:04 PM
Tess Guilder already knew that Salinero was Dynamite & Trouble.



Her two top placings at Dusseldorf were very welcome for Van Grunsven because "we are running out of savings," Van Grunsven told Dutch reporter Claartje van Andel. Van Grunsven recently bought Salinero from American Tess Guilder, as Guilder considered the horse a better match for the Dutch rider better. "She didn't want to trade Salinero for Gestion Idool, but preferred Bertolucci (by Equador) instead. So, I bought Bertolucci for her and exchanged him for Salinero", Van Grunsven explained.

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:26 PM
it may be the first time you've heard about it but it isn't the first time i've heard about it.

ah - here we go with the 'it's a dressage thing you wouldn't understand".

soooo - i guess since you can't answer a very sincere and legitimate question the only way you can respond is by insinuating i abuse my horses and to infer that the sport i currently engage in is not as lofty as dressage. news flash - i didn't always foxhunt.....

the "any method you prefer" phrase was intended to placate the folks who cling to various schools - all insisting that their's is "the one and only" true faith.

your statement that the pulley rein will "rip a horses" mouth is absurd. i asked several questions about this incident to satisfy my curiousity - if you can't answer the questions - then the least you could do is be quiet. i had no intention of turning this into anky bashing, or rollkur bashing -or to lift one sport above the others in terms of quality training.






That's an extremist point of view don't you think? Do you beat your horses on the head with the baseball bat if they rear also? Are you one of those people who beat their horses in to the submittion at any cost?

Also this is the very first time that I've heard of Salinero running away - is this considered a "habit" in your book already?

What are the similarities of foxhunting and dressage anyway?

egontoast
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:31 PM
Too Simple, must you be SUCH a drama queen? I mean, if you get all shocked and appalled in caps in every second thread, it loses some of the all important impact.



egontoast - right I forgot... sorry for that.


Alexandra, I was replying to oakstable.:)

alexandra
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:32 PM
Again off topic: Horsedances what a cool homepage !!! And cool work, too !!! It is often a surprise when one clicks on a link in the signature line. Often a o.k. this is a homepage. But this one has for sure been a positive surprise ! And I remember some of the music from watching riding. The unusual music for Giorgio S or at least his british rider I think I remember tht one from TV or even a show I attended.

alexandra
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:33 PM
Alexandra, I was replying to oakstable.:)
Yep but never the less, I forgot that it did not happen at all ;-)




I have tried to stop a horse with that sort of method on various times, but I have never heard it been given an actual name in german. People just do it. And it helps and I have never ripped a lip. Even if I would, I would not care less if the alternative would be running horses or even people over.

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:39 PM
"What are the similarities of foxhunting and dressage anyway?"

You need to know where the brakes are in any equine sport. Less about riding, more about finding the brakes and avoiding injury. Look, I'd rather know when I go to a USDF recognized dressage show when a horse bolts and runs off that isn't an acceptance of behavoir that "one must not touch the valuable horse, just let him/her run into something or someone." Because in some responses here, that's the message I'm getting.

SGray
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:48 PM
eurodressage site states "...The gelding spooked and had taken off and there was no stopping to him, not even a double Olympic champion could curb the instinct of this animal. She shouted "help" and had to steer Salinero into two police horses to bring him to a stop. It was a very scary sight and even Anky held her heart there. At the press conference she said "Salinero really got scared in the prize giving and I did as well...."

to my eye, the picture at eurodressage makes it look as if she is attempting a pulley-rein

fiona
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:52 PM
A person could have easily been trampled and killed due to letting the horse run out of control out into a crowd of people, or slamming into other horses.
I was there NONE of the above happened. The only person that looked like they may get injured was Anky. Yeah maybe a press person could have got trampled - i'd have cheered extra loud for that. Jeez if i'd thought quick enough i'd have leapt up ran down the stairs and shoved them under his raging hooves.
Go me!

fiona
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:54 PM
What are the similarities of foxhunting and dressage anyway?There are none.

SGray
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:54 PM
instead of police horses/riders -- what they needed was some hazers and doggers

see http://sports.espn.go.com/prorodeo/news/story?page=g_SWEventDescription

fiona
Oct. 9, 2006, 06:58 PM
Are you sure you mean "doggers"?
Dogging over here is somerthing else but then this whole thread is the pits so why not?

mp
Oct. 9, 2006, 07:04 PM
An Anky thread with some new choice phrases:
face ripping off devils
moron fool (or was it fool moron?)
the one way stop that rips the lips (NB -- It's not good for dressage horses)

This is good stuff. Carry on!

PS -- to all you one-rein, lip-ripping stoppers out there: I use it when necessary and it doesn't stop every horse. I had one that could go forward full throttle with her nose at my knee, looking up at me with one eye. She just didn't know she was supposed to disengage her HQ and circle, I guess. ;)

egontoast
Oct. 9, 2006, 07:11 PM
The horse's nose would have been at her knee cap

Oh no, another photo for the sustainable fatwa.

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 07:26 PM
"PS -- to all you one-rein, lip-ripping stoppers out there: I use it when necessary and it doesn't stop every horse. I had one that could go forward full throttle with her nose at my knee, looking up at me with one eye. She just didn't know she was supposed to disengage her HQ and circle, I guess."

Sounds like a very athletic horse :) she was able to keep her shoulders aligned to hindquarters. But if her stride was broken, a la post 54, she would have no choice but to drop the leg with an incomplete stride.

mp
Oct. 9, 2006, 08:14 PM
But if her stride was broken, a la post 54, she would have no choice but to drop the leg with an incomplete stride.

With an extremely supple neck and an extremely urgent desire to go forward, she obviously made her own choice. :lol:

But we both lived and not a single drop of blood was spilled. Neither hers nor mine.

sm
Oct. 9, 2006, 08:28 PM
you don't ask or leave options open, it's not a choice, it's dynamics.

how did she end up stopping anyway? I'm glad every one was okay.

mp
Oct. 9, 2006, 08:44 PM
you don't ask or leave options open, it's not a choice, it's dynamics.

how did she end up stopping anyway? I'm glad every one was okay.

Oh, I understand the mechanics. And believe me, I wasn't asking -- I was telling her with every bit of strength in my body. She was simply able to evade with every fiber of hers.

I steered her up a hill and managed to turn her in a circle at the top (disengage those HQs -- YES!). She jumped around a bit more, then finally stopped. I got off.

fiona
Oct. 9, 2006, 08:54 PM
I had one that could go forward full throttle with her nose at my knee, looking up at me with one eye.

And there are two possible replies to this:

You recommend this as a stopping method still?
Did you wave back and call her cyclops?


And ironically - if he was steerable enough to aim for a police horse, he was steerable enough to make a circle and NOT run into ANYBODY.

The police horses were directly infront of her at the time. The alternative was the press corrall, the sundry ground jury and prize giving personel, the trainers, grooms and supporters standing at the entrance to the main arena in front of the very deep sand pathway to the 10 minute warm up arena and stabling.
Personally i'd have run into the press.

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"
Oct. 9, 2006, 09:10 PM
Wow. I haven't gone through the whole thread...but really, people. In reading the first page, it never even crossed my mind that this was a slur or attack on the rider. This stuff happens - and certainly, horses that are brilliant enough to excel at a Grand Prix level are certainly capable of going over the edge, regardless. The fine line between genius idea.

But I did laugh at the "jailbird" comments - they were pretty funny. And I don't think they were inappropriate, because, after all, no one was hurt, and it wasn't making fun of a tragic situation.

So here's my question - why can't people laugh at themselves on this board?

Pony Fixer
Oct. 9, 2006, 09:20 PM
Gawd I love a good trainwreck.

So hard to choose a side....pro-human life, pulley rein vs. pro-shit happens and we're not perfect. Hmm.

I agree with the poster who had a mare that could not be stopped. My first pony, Bullit, was a master of evasion. He had a mouth of pure rock. After using a pulley rein as I had been taught (I was maybe 8?) on maybe my third run away (which didn't work--he just rubber necked it home looking at me as well), he added this little hitch. When I tried to employ this again he gingerly took my knee cap in his mouth when I pulled his head around. He did not bite down, just held it there as he galloped back home. I never did THAT again! He also had an uncanny ability to be able to chose 2 trees just as wide as him, but alas, not as wide as my knees, or just as tall as him, but alas, not as tall as me.

He was a monster, but I learned to cling like a burr, ride on his side, and hike up my legs at a full gallop. Mind you, this heathen never spooked, just got tired of dealing with kids and wanted back home, which are 2 very different things.

mp
Oct. 9, 2006, 09:23 PM
You recommend this as a stopping method still?

Yes. At least it's the first thing I'd try. My point is that, unlike what others have said, it isn't a magic "stop" button. But still a handy tool for emergencies.



Did you wave back and call her cyclops?

No, but I called her alot of other things once we got stopped and I got my breath back. :lol:

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 09:25 PM
my field hunter is like that. dressage made him very supple- didn't know the little guy had it in him. oh - forgot - foxhunting and dressage have nothing in common. field hunters aren't allowed to run off with their riders and have people excuse the behavior.

seriously though - even the best efforts to stop a runaway can end in failure - i just don't buy the "dressage is special you don't understand you hate anky you lip ripping animal abuser wish you could ride like anky" doo doo. so far alexandra was kind enough to answer part of my question - don't know what y'all are trying to do.

another question might be what do y'all do in such cases? i imagine most of you have been on a true runaway (not a spook, bolt, or moment of naughtiness) - but a real scary runaway that's going to get you hurt. what do y'all do?


An Anky thread with some new choice phrases:
face ripping off devils
moron fool (or was it fool moron?)
the one way stop that rips the lips (NB -- It's not good for dressage horses)

This is good stuff. Carry on!

PS -- to all you one-rein, lip-ripping stoppers out there: I use it when necessary and it doesn't stop every horse. I had one that could go forward full throttle with her nose at my knee, looking up at me with one eye. She just didn't know she was supposed to disengage her HQ and circle, I guess. ;)

mp
Oct. 9, 2006, 09:28 PM
So here's my question - why can't people laugh at themselves on this board?

Damned if I know. But the more righteously indignant they get, the more amusement for the rest of us, no? ;)

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 09:29 PM
harumpf!!


Damned if I know. But the more righteously indignant they get, the more amusement for the rest of us, no? ;)

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"
Oct. 9, 2006, 09:34 PM
I don't know if this counts as a runaway...but I have only ever once let Ted go full throttle like the OTTB he is. We were on a trail, last fall, he somehow ended up covered in nasty weenie seed pods (I don't know where they came from! they must have jumped from the alien mother ship), and he wanted to Go Home. Now. He was jigging and sproinging and I thought, well, we could go back, we're not far. We could kind of lope back. Wrong. On all counts. So very, very wrong.

I have never been that low to the ground and seen it rushing by so fast. Unfortunately, I had plenty of time to appreciate what jockeys must go through every day, how I was glad that wasn't my career, how it was great that all that dressage work had helped my seat, how if I fell I would either be killed outright or paralyzed forever, and would my insurance cover that? Did I ever make a living will? We had that time not because Ted was loping, no, but because we were actually quite some distance from home.

I could have used a pulley rein, or something. But in my twisted reasoning, I felt we were going so fast that we simply could not stop without something (me?) catapulting...too much knowledge of physics.

As it dawned on me that there was a CLOSED GATE we would have to stop before, we did pull up, but after all, Ted knew we were back home.

I will say I lost my fear of canter lengthenings in the arena after that.

JSwan
Oct. 9, 2006, 10:53 PM
great story! yes, i think all the thoughts going through your head qualifies this incident as a runaway.


I don't know if this counts as a runaway...but I have only ever once let Ted go full throttle like the OTTB he is. We were on a trail, last fall, he somehow ended up covered in nasty weenie seed pods (I don't know where they came from! they must have jumped from the alien mother ship), and he wanted to Go Home. Now. He was jigging and sproinging and I thought, well, we could go back, we're not far. We could kind of lope back. Wrong. On all counts. So very, very wrong.

I have never been that low to the ground and seen it rushing by so fast. Unfortunately, I had plenty of time to appreciate what jockeys must go through every day, how I was glad that wasn't my career, how it was great that all that dressage work had helped my seat, how if I fell I would either be killed outright or paralyzed forever, and would my insurance cover that? Did I ever make a living will? We had that time not because Ted was loping, no, but because we were actually quite some distance from home.

I could have used a pulley rein, or something. But in my twisted reasoning, I felt we were going so fast that we simply could not stop without something (me?) catapulting...too much knowledge of physics.

As it dawned on me that there was a CLOSED GATE we would have to stop before, we did pull up, but after all, Ted knew we were back home.

I will say I lost my fear of canter lengthenings in the arena after that.

LE
Oct. 9, 2006, 11:18 PM
fiona--thanksgiving is giving thanks for what you have. I do that daily. Today, however, is a recognized day for that I guess. As for the rest you commented on, you lost me there.
I give thanks for all that I have, and the only thing I wish for is that my grandfather would be well, but that won't happen. It's only a matter of time, and I hope he is not in any pain.

Carry on with the debate.

Alagirl
Oct. 9, 2006, 11:31 PM
Wow. I haven't gone through the whole thread...but really, people. In reading the first page, it never even crossed my mind that this was a slur or attack on the rider. This stuff happens - and certainly, horses that are brilliant enough to excel at a Grand Prix level are certainly capable of going over the edge, regardless. The fine line between genius idea.

But I did laugh at the "jailbird" comments - they were pretty funny. And I don't think they were inappropriate, because, after all, no one was hurt, and it wasn't making fun of a tragic situation.

So here's my question - why can't people laugh at themselves on this board?


We tried our best to slow this rig down...:yes: :winkgrin:

nero
Oct. 10, 2006, 12:18 AM
Two Simple wrote: "Numerous people on this board and others have said this was NOT the first instance of Salinero running away with Anky."

Really? Can you or the 'numerous' others that claim this provide evidence of previous such incidents please? Thank you.

tarnia
Oct. 10, 2006, 12:58 AM
Not to change the subject, maybe I should make it a new post, but how do you teach a one rein stop? I ride at a school barn and the only emergency stop I was ever really taught was an emergency pully rein, where I was told to jam my heels down and do a fast left right left right...rpt as necessary...on my horse which is very severe, it was a draft cross mare that can run over me and she's never gotten through that! I know the conventional plant the inside hand on the neck, pull their head to their flank with the outside-is this what you mean? I've had a couple of horses run through that BUT I'm not the most experienced, sometimes not the gutsiest, rider.

I ask because I too have ridden horses that get competitive on trails, etc. In the ring I have the fence if worst comes to worse, but out there there's nothing! Well except some trees to knock myself out on...


I think its for the very reason that slc pointed out. People think it's "stupid cowboy tricks" to teach your horse how to stop when it bolts and runs away. Instead they want to focus on piaffe, passage, and piourettes and leave the stupid cowboy tricks to the tobacco spitting people wearing straw hats.

Well, it's not stupid cowboy tricks. It's knowing how to handle your animal in an emergency situation before someone gets hurt or killed, regardless of breed, discipline, training, heritage, or level. I used it at a recent trail ride when we were galloping through a 2 mile grassy field with about 20 horses. My mare thought she'd get competitive and pass people on the outside and surge to the front. I asked her to slow and she refused. So I pulled her right around in a stop and made her stand facing the opposite direction as the pack left us. I schooled her on the circle for 5 minutes until she was soft and listening, and then let her gallop to catch up. And that time when I asked her to slow down, she did, immediately.

Spoilsport
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:08 PM
I'm really impressed that this rider admitted she was afraid and joked about it. That takes a lot of self-confidence. Even great riders have bad days.

Does this happen a lot in dressage? I went to my first dressage competition this year at Devon and was surprised at how many riders were excused from the prize ceremonies and victory gallop.

mp
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:10 PM
mp so if you enjoy or get great amusement out of reading trainwrecks, cool. Sometimes, I like to post on them just for kicks too. Don't think I will win an argument with the Two Simples of the world and breath a voice of reason into them, but it is fun nonetheless. So perhaps you should revise your statement to read "Only a moron fool would think that s/he can breath reason into a moron fool." Still I think those on this board who think they can ride Salinero better than Anky are moron fools. I would pay to see any of them try, but then again horses are very unpredictable and I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt (and I am sure Anky is not going to offer the ride on Salinero to a moron fool) so lets just let the whole thing go.

Information is my #1 reason for reading this board. There is a lot of good stuff here. Trainwrecks, however, are a close second. And you have to admit this one is pretty good, especially for a recycled subject.

I wasn't making fun of you. I honestly didn't remember who used that term first, but it's great and I like it. You should be proud to have coined it. Really. I'm a writer and I know these things. :) Although it should probably be moronic fool. But who would sacrifice the *whack whack* of a good insult on the altar of grammatical correctness? Not me.

But ... you're right. We should just let the whole thing go and allow Two Simp to rest up for her next adventure. ;)

fiona
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:10 PM
Julie Goodnight, whom I'm sure you've all heard of,
Nope. Who? What? Where?

But the point is that ANKY at least should be able to ride the horse in a safe manner or she has no business riding it in public.
She was riding in a safe manner. She didn't just let it cannon into the police horses. She didn't endanger anyone's life.

The post about the pony the tree and the kneecaps had me in stitches. been there done that with the trees.

petitefilly
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:18 PM
I don't know that any of us can ride the horse better than Anky. I would rather doubt it. But the point is that ANKY at least should be able to ride the horse in a safe manner or she has no business riding it in public. ;)

:) YOU might want to check out the crowd at Aachen before you go about raining on her parade. Disclaimer: not an Anky fan on this seat. The crowd noise alone would probably make your horse shake for a week. YOU have no idea what happened on that day. You surmise, you guess, you postulate, you acquire a firm belief that the rider was in error, and then you post it time and time again on this board. Ah, honey, sit down, breathe more and realize you are not at Aachen, the crowd is roaring, the place is not on it's feet clapping for you, and the horse under you is not at all the verve and quality of the Gold Metal Winner. That horse would still shake if you were there.

Every competitor at Aachen has had a moment of free for all in the arena, if not, I am guessing their horse has been there, done that, a thousand times before. YOU have no way to understand this moment in time till it happens to you. You will never have this feeling. So, let it go. Go on your trail ride and live long and prosper, but do not malign something that will never be in your life experience. Your value system is not Anky's; get over it.

Kerrysmom818
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:20 PM
I should probably keep my thoughts to myself - however, does no one else see the irony in the fact that this horse can be put thru all of these high falootin' dressage moves and yet cannot be stopped?! Shouldn't a well executed half-halt have nipped the "runaway" in the bud?? And it's not like this was the first time this horse had been exposed to this atmosphere and bolted - wouldn't you ride ready, so to speak?

Regardless - I agree no way, no how, do you use other horses as bumper cars. And screaming is never an option . . .

On second thought - what do I know - I just amble down the trail most days anyway . . .

Sannois
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:20 PM
if your an olympic level rider you are above reproach.. IT makes no sense.
If you were at a recognized show and saw a Prix St. George rider do the same thing, run there out of control into other horses, be it police horses or what have you.. Would you say, oh my that was the right thing to do. She would not want to harm her upper level horse, so instead use another animal or worse a human as a break wall??
Seriously if it had been any other rider would you all have said its ok..
Yes Anky did not get to where she is by being a bad rider, but most horseman question when someone cannot stop their horse,
Not making this about Rollkur or anything else, but in the Photos of her doing Rollkur warmups she has her legs out on front of her and her upper body way back, in a strong posture, I cant help wonder why she did not use the same power to stop him.. And those who say his lip would be ripped up is the most absurd thing I have ever read.
I cant understand why you take it out on Too Simple , because she has done nothing but state common sense facts. You tell everyone that they are wrong, and nasty because they are jealous of there success?? No one is jealous of her. If I saw an eventer do that I would have said the same thing. ITs a strange image to see someone of that caliber yelling help. And looking very passive. Someone said her reins looked like she was attempting a pulley rein?? Not when they are that slack. Maybe if we were there and saw the actual occurence it would be clearer what had happened. IT just appears that nothng was really tried except to run the horse into horses. There is no reason for folks to be nasty or demeaning to Too Simple. I tell you what, I would rather ride in a group with the likes of her and jswan than a few others. Again, different strokes. But leave the crappy replys out of it. People are allowed to have opinions and make observations that are different. :confused: :no:

petitefilly
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:21 PM
I cannot believe that all you big time dressage people cannot understand simple gait dynamics. When the hindquarters are crossing over each other and completely disengaged, it is physically impossible for the horse to keep running forward. It's NOT just about head. It's about HINDQUARTERS.



Who do you think you are talking to? Go over to the gentle side of natural horsemanship and post there. At this point, no one cares what you have to say. Period. Walk away, walk far away, you are not the subject.

mp
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:35 PM
Cue the spooky music ...

I just posted a reply to you, kkj, but it's back on page 7. Interesting ...

Cliff's Notes version: I hope you don't mind if moron fool becomes part of my vocabulary. I'm not making fun of you or your opinions. It's just a great term.

EDITED TO ADD
Wow ... this one went to previous page, too. I guess Two Simp gets the last word. :lol:

Kerrysmom818
Oct. 10, 2006, 03:56 PM
The catty side of me wants so badly to quote Podhasky "Dressage should make a horse calm, supple and obedient."

But since I am a reformed catty person let me say "..it happens."

You said it much better than I did!!!

Moll
Oct. 10, 2006, 04:52 PM
Just by looking at this image http://www.eurodressage.com/images/2006/06weg/vangrunsven-8789.jpg I would say that she is trying to stop him (somebody fifty pages back said she wasn't even trying to). She has her right hand against his neck and is raising her left to try to make the "lock" that stops any horse, but her reins are a bit too long for it to work.

Horses are flight animals. Sometimes one will bolt. I think that in that situation, pregnant, it's most understandable that she did the first thing that came into her head to stop the horse. Sure, with hindsight, if the horse could be steered into the police horses, he could have been steered on a circle and gradually stopped then, or she could have shortened her reins and then done the lock stop, but I defy any one of you to act more rationally in those circumstances.

Parysa
Oct. 10, 2006, 04:53 PM
What the heck was Anky thinking? Or NOT thinking, apparently. And for the love of pete the last thing you do is start screaming. That is likely to spook the horse more. She should have used her brain to engage an appropriate stop on the animal. She had a curb rein and a snaffle rein. There is no reason why she could not have used a one rein stop on that horse.
...
In that photo, she's just sitting there with slack reins allowing the horse to gallop and screaming at the top of her lungs - evidenced by her wide open mouth.
Agree with you on all the other points but this, and I'm not really disagreeing, but just pointing out what could be the other side of the story. ;) We don't know at what point in time that picture was taken. She may have already tried employing the one-rein stop, pulley stop whatever-it's-called, yanked his mouth, beaten him over the head, reached down and grabbed the bits (I had to do that once on a 14.3 hony who gave no warning of what he was about to do running full out to a five or so foot fence, gathering himself to jump, wouldn't give to the bit no matter what I did to the reins, just would. not. stop. Finally reached down and grabbed the bit and got him stopped just as he was about to try to clear the fence, at which point I'd have been dead or paralyzed. And that's where I agree with you again b/c when a horse puts my life in jeopardy, I'll do whatever it takes, regardless of the harm to the horse.) Anyway, point is, she may have tried everything, nothing was working, and totally panicked "OhmyGodI'mabouttodieandI'mpregnantandthishorsewill .not.stop! HELP!!!" Sometimes the horse just will. not. stop. And 1200 or so pounds of extremely conditioned, adrenaline surged, "IT'S GONNA EAT ME!" trumps 100-something pounds of "Stop this instant you dang bass turd!" We just don't know. We weren't there.

You never endanger the life of someone else to save your own. If she had to run the horse head long into an arena wall and break his neck - then so be it. But you NEVER endanger the life of another human being for the sake of a horse. No million dollar olympic horse is EVER worth the life of a mother, a father, or a child who gets killed by a panicked run away.
Agree 110% But she also had a responsibility to protect the life of the child she carries. And if the horse was truly out of control, then she chose, IMO, the lesser evil in stopping the horse. Police horses are trained to do much worse.

Again off topic: Horsedances what a cool homepage !!!
That is a really awesome site!

JSwan
Oct. 10, 2006, 05:29 PM
Y'all have GOT to read the new issue of the Chronicle. i just got mine today. there is a fantastic picture of the awards ceremony at the USDF region 2 championships.

The photo is titled "Is that a medium or extended trot?" and there is a horse and rider doing their victory round, and behind is a grinning happy rider on foot, gleefully trotting behind.

the caption reads, "Even though her horse Bellinger doesn't enjoy the awards ceremonies, that doesn't prevent rider Lauren Sprieser from participating. with George Williams and Marnix leading the way, sprieser kept perfect step during the lap of honor......"

maybe Anky should leave Salinero in his stall and follow ms. sprieser's example - she certainly appears to be a good sport about her horse being naughty - and took her victory lap on foot with a big huge grin!

JSwan
Oct. 10, 2006, 05:32 PM
I just posted this and it ended up among earlier posts. dunno why. anyway here it is - take a look at your new issue of COTH:


Y'all have GOT to read the new issue of the Chronicle. i just got mine today. there is a fantastic picture of the awards ceremony at the USDF region 2 championships.

The photo is titled "Is that a medium or extended trot?" and there is a horse and rider doing their victory round, and behind is a grinning happy rider on foot, gleefully trotting behind.

the caption reads, "Even though her horse Bellinger doesn't enjoy the awards ceremonies, that doesn't prevent rider Lauren Sprieser from participating. with George Williams and Marnix leading the way, sprieser kept perfect step during the lap of honor......"

maybe Anky should leave Salinero in his stall and follow ms. sprieser's example - she certainly appears to be a good sport about her horse being naughty - and took her victory lap on foot with a big huge grin!

mp
Oct. 10, 2006, 05:58 PM
I just posted this and it ended up among earlier posts. dunno why. anyway here it is - take a look at your new issue of COTH:

Weird, isn't it? Did the same thing to mine. Two Simp must have put one-rein stop on this thread. ;)

Cool about the rider on foot. I like that solution.

pinecone
Oct. 10, 2006, 06:00 PM
The arrogance, and stupidity, of several of the responses on this thread are appalling. It is scary that people like you own horses. We should all be so lucky as to be so perfect as some of you think you are.


maybe Anky should leave Salinero in his stall and follow ms. sprieser's example - she certainly appears to be a good sport about her horse being naughty - and took her victory lap on foot with a big huge grin!


There is no pleasing several of you, who will continue to hate Anky and criticize every move she makes for as long as she is in the spotlight. I've seen how irrationally nasty and arrogant some of you have been because Salinero ran away with her, I can only imagine the responses those same people would have had if she had chosen NOT to ride in the prize giving!! The double standard also does not escape me, that Cesar Parra was recently crucified for choosing NOT to ride in the Devon prize giving, just as Dover was criticized following the World Cup prize giving in Vegas (for riding a different horse in the prize giving). But somehow JSwan (whom I thought was banned) is charmed by the idea of Sprieser NOT riding in a prize giving. Go figure.

There seems to be no logic in determining who the crazed masses will LIKE or NOT like, and which behavior is fine for one person but not for another.

Some of you hate Anky with such a passion that it is genuinely disturbing.

Sannois
Oct. 10, 2006, 06:47 PM
of posts... mines a page back.. loses all the meaning.. I guess I will copy and paste it! :confused:

nero
Oct. 10, 2006, 08:40 PM
Two Simple, where did you see or read that Anky "ploughed" her horse into two police horses?????

Edited, this should have been at bottom of page nine in response to Two Simple's post further down.

pinecone
Oct. 10, 2006, 08:55 PM
The arrogance, and stupidity, of several of the responses on this thread are appalling. It is scary that people like you own horses. We should all be so lucky as to be so perfect as some of you think you are.


maybe Anky should leave Salinero in his stall and follow ms. sprieser's example - she certainly appears to be a good sport about her horse being naughty - and took her victory lap on foot with a big huge grin!

There is no pleasing several of you, who will continue to hate Anky and criticize every move she makes for as long as she is in the spotlight. I've seen how irrationally nasty and arrogant some of you have been because Salinero ran away with her, I can only imagine the responses those same people would have had if she had chosen NOT to ride in the prize giving!! The double standard also does not escape me, that Cesar Parra was recently crucified for choosing NOT to ride in the Devon prize giving, just as Dover was criticized following the World Cup prize giving in Vegas (for riding a different horse in the prize giving). But somehow JSwan (whom I thought was banned) is charmed by the idea of Sprieser NOT riding in a prize giving. Go figure.

There seems to be no logic in determining who the crazed masses will LIKE or NOT like, and which behavior is fine for one person but not for another.

Some of you hate Anky with such a passion that it is genuinely disturbing.

Jenn2674
Oct. 10, 2006, 08:55 PM
Please forgive me because I didn't read all 8 pages of the Anky is a terrible rider, trainer, person, who puts other peoples lives in danger, blah, blah, blah!

How much of these ridiculous allegations are known to be true? I know we all know that Salinero took off with her and she couldn't stop him until she reached the police horses. But is it a fact that she ran Salinero into the police horses on purpose? that he in fact has gotton uncontrollable many times before? that she ran Salinero into the police horses because he was too valuable and she had to make sure that HE (not her or her baby) didn't get hurt? Is it a fact that she excuses this kind of behavior because the horse is, well, Salinero and a famous dressage horse? I mean, this thread has to be the worst of the worst and it is utterly ridiculous. I cannot believe how catty and immature and loatheful some of you are.

This could have happened to anyone and any horse. Horses are horses with a mind of their own. Anyone who doesn't know that hasn't been around horses very long or are completely ignorant.

And for the record, dressage makes horses better it doesn't make them perfect and it doesn't turn them into push button school horses. There is no telling how uncontrollable he would have been if anyone else but Anky had gotten him. There are millions of horses out there that never calm down, that is just the way they are and it doesn't just happen to Anky. Noone is saying you have to like Anky or her horses or her training but for heaven's sake can't you all stop the cattiness? And who asked me earlier why I thought this thread had gotten ugly?

pinecone
Oct. 10, 2006, 08:56 PM
The arrogance, and stupidity, of several of the responses on this thread are appalling. It is scary that people like you own horses. We should all be so lucky as to be so perfect as some of you think you are.



maybe Anky should leave Salinero in his stall and follow ms. sprieser's example - she certainly appears to be a good sport about her horse being naughty - and took her victory lap on foot with a big huge grin!

There is no pleasing several of you, who will continue to hate Anky and criticize every move she makes for as long as she is in the spotlight. I've seen how irrationally nasty and arrogant some of you have been because Salinero ran away with her, I can only imagine the responses those same people would have had if she had chosen NOT to ride in the prize giving!! The double standard also does not escape me, that Cesar Parra was recently crucified for choosing NOT to ride in the Devon prize giving, just as Dover was criticized following the World Cup prize giving in Vegas (for riding a different horse in the prize giving). But somehow JSwan (whom I thought was banned) is charmed by the idea of Sprieser NOT riding in a prize giving. Go figure.

There seems to be no logic in determining who the crazed masses will LIKE or NOT like, and which behavior is fine for one person but not for another.

Some of you hate Anky with such a passion that it is genuinely disturbing.

Daydream Believer
Oct. 10, 2006, 09:23 PM
Tarnia,

Check out the links I posted a page or two ago on the one rein stop. A websearch will also find some good sites to help you learn. I generally teach it from the ground first and then under saddle and occasionally practice it. It is a good suppling exercise if nothing else for the horse to turn his neck both ways to the stirrup every time you get on.


Not to change the subject, maybe I should make it a new post, but how do you teach a one rein stop? I ride at a school barn and the only emergency stop I was ever really taught was an emergency pully rein, where I was told to jam my heels down and do a fast left right left right...rpt as necessary...on my horse which is very severe, it was a draft cross mare that can run over me and she's never gotten through that! I know the conventional plant the inside hand on the neck, pull their head to their flank with the outside-is this what you mean? I've had a couple of horses run through that BUT I'm not the most experienced, sometimes not the gutsiest, rider.

I ask because I too have ridden horses that get competitive on trails, etc. In the ring I have the fence if worst comes to worse, but out there there's nothing! Well except some trees to knock myself out on...

egontoast
Oct. 10, 2006, 09:39 PM
Every thread with Too Simple on it becomes a serial trainwreck. Too Simple does not like or support dressage. She has said so. Yet, she posts here several times a day and must have the last word on all things dressage. She posts the same thought over and over in each thread. Dressage can't hold a candle to western Pleasure, trail riding and endurance. Too Simple also admires Halter type QHs. She thinks there is something wrong with dressage horses who have foamy mouths because Wp horses do not foam. She's never seen a western horse with a wet mouth so there is something wrong with dressage. Stuff like that.

All these things are wonderful,but remember, TS doesn't like dressage but likes to argue about it.

It's hard to imagine someone preferring WP to dressage but some people do and that's fine..... but why hang out here then unless to troll?

JSwan
Oct. 10, 2006, 09:42 PM
pinecone - what on earth are you talking about!? first, i've been on this bb for 6 years and never been banned. second - i thought that picture was neat and showed a really happy competitor laughing at herself. you should see the picture - what a grin. if i'm charmed - i'm charmed by her good sportsmanship.

i don't hate anybody - least of all anky. as far as the other riders - hey - whatever floats their boat.

i think you're reading wayyyyy too much into what i'm writing. i just liked the photo and article. certainly no shame in choosing not to ride in a victory gallop - at least i don't think so. safety first, after all.

now - where anyone has read that i think i'm better than anky - i suggest reading glasses! all these riders have my respect - although i may not care for their style or methods - they do have my respect.

and for the record - i LOVE dressage.




The arrogance, and stupidity, of several of the responses on this thread are appalling. It is scary that people like you own horses. We should all be so lucky as to be so perfect as some of you think you are.



There is no pleasing several of you, who will continue to hate Anky and criticize every move she makes for as long as she is in the spotlight. I've seen how irrationally nasty and arrogant some of you have been because Salinero ran away with her, I can only imagine the responses those same people would have had if she had chosen NOT to ride in the prize giving!! The double standard also does not escape me, that Cesar Parra was recently crucified for choosing NOT to ride in the Devon prize giving, just as Dover was criticized following the World Cup prize giving in Vegas (for riding a different horse in the prize giving). But somehow JSwan (whom I thought was banned) is charmed by the idea of Sprieser NOT riding in a prize giving. Go figure.

There seems to be no logic in determining who the crazed masses will LIKE or NOT like, and which behavior is fine for one person but not for another.

Some of you hate Anky with such a passion that it is genuinely disturbing.

egontoast
Oct. 10, 2006, 09:42 PM
ANyone ele having problems with the board? I posted and it showed up in the middle of the thread. AM is switched with PM.

Oh well, I'll try again.

Let's recap
Every thread with Too Simple on it becomes a serial trainwreck. Too Simple does not like or support dressage. She has said so. Yet, she posts here several times a day and must have the last word on all things dressage. She posts the same thought over and over in each thread. Dressage can't hold a candle to western Pleasure, trail riding and endurance. Too Simple also admires Halter type QHs. She thinks there is something wrong with dressage horses who have foamy mouths because Wp horses do not foam. She's never seen a western horse with a wet mouth so there is something wrong with dressage. Stuff like that.

All these things are wonderful,but remember, TS doesn't like dressage but likes to argue about it.

It's hard to imagine someone preferring WP to dressage but some people do and that's fine..... but why hang out here then unless to troll?

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/misc/progress.gif

Pony Fixer
Oct. 10, 2006, 10:21 PM
If you cannot control said animal in the public domain, then you have no business riding the beast.

I am QUITE SURE, that AVG (or anyone, including myself) would have gone to the award ceremony unmounted, or on a different horse, if she had KNOWN he would get out of control. Sure, he's hot. But she keeps him together 99.9% of the time. This was an ACCIDENT, this was not planned for, and none of us was there to even know how it all really went down and what AVG did in total for response.

I understand you don't think she should run her horse into others to stop. But steering a horse toward something (another horse, fence, etc) does not mean you plan to HIT it. I have aimed a horse or two at another's bum in the hunt field (with their permission, of course) when on a green one. Usually they stop just short, even crazed they usually have a modicum of self preservation. I used to steer my crazy eventer at a fence or two when he would ignore me and refuse to stop (until he jumped a pasture fence with me totally in the back seat). Should I have done otherwise, sure. Was I thinking totally clearly in my panic. No. And I'm a pretty darn good rider (not AVG caliber by any stretch, but I ain't no greenhorn).

Accidents happen. Panic happens. Shit happens. Get over it.

Pony Fixer
Oct. 10, 2006, 10:23 PM
Let's try again!


I am QUITE SURE, that AVG (or anyone, including myself) would have gone to the award ceremony unmounted, or on a different horse, if she had KNOWN he would get out of control. Sure, he's hot. But she keeps him together 99.9% of the time. This was an ACCIDENT, this was not planned for, and none of us was there to even know how it all really went down and what AVG did in total for response.

I understand you don't think she should run her horse into others to stop. But steering a horse toward something (another horse, fence, etc) does not mean you plan to HIT it. I have aimed a horse or two at another's bum in the hunt field (with their permission, of course) when on a green one. Usually they stop just short, even crazed they usually have a modicum of self preservation. I used to steer my crazy eventer at a fence or two when he would ignore me and refuse to stop (until he jumped a pasture fence with me totally in the back seat). Should I have done otherwise, sure. Was I thinking totally clearly in my panic. No. And I'm a pretty darn good rider (not AVG caliber by any stretch, but I ain't no greenhorn).

Accidents happen. Panic happens. Shit happens. Get over it.

Pony Fixer
Oct. 10, 2006, 10:24 PM
What a mess. It's like a trainwreck on a mobius loop. How am I supposed to keep up with the arguement under these conditions!?

mp
Oct. 11, 2006, 12:40 AM
Too much to respond to

Back atcha, Two Simp. You are something else.

Tarnia, the links provided DDB explain it pretty well, but I add my leg to be sure the horse knows to move his hip over. I've never had one confuse it with a leg yield. Practice this with your horse when he's calm and don't just spring it on him if he takes off. If your horse is running away, you may have to release and do it several times before stops. That will also lessen the chance of him losing his balance and falling down on you.

JSwan - the horse that ran through the emergency brake with me belonged to someone else. I should have known better than to get on her -- I knew she was nutty. I steered her up a hill and at the top, I could finally get enough weight on her hind end to turn her in a circle.

Ivanhoe
Oct. 11, 2006, 01:49 AM
The catty side of me wants so badly to quote Podhasky "Dressage should make a horse calm, supple and obedient."

But since I am a reformed catty person let me say "..it happens."

kkj
Oct. 11, 2006, 01:54 AM
Too effing bad. If you're pregnant, you have no business riding a hot ass freight train in front of 50 zillion cheering screaming people. That was her first major screw up. Perhaps she needs to sit home on the couch if she's too pregnant to ride the horse appropriately.


Seriously Two Simple do you hate all pregnant women or just Anky.

I chose not to ride both times I was pregnant, not because I was too "effing" pregnant to ride well, but because I was unwilling to take the risk albiet small that something might happen to my poor baby. I am more risk adverse than many. However, riding is not how I make a living and I am not a world class high profile pro. Still I am a damn good rider, and could probably ride better than you if I were 8 months pregnant.

I can appreciate the complexity of such a decision for someone like Anky, who is very often a gold medal contender and makes her living on the back of a horse. I think it is very inconsiderate and downright rude for you to insult her the way you do. I am sure she takes all her choices seriously and loves her babies as much as anyone else does.

I think perhaps she should have ridden a different horse in the awards cermony too, but I don't know that. I have never seen Salinero go wacko on her and from the picture I cannot tell much.

I am just glad she is OK. I wish her an easier pregnancy this time and all the happiness. And I don't even really like her.

Where does all this spite come from? What horrible thing is Anky the scape goat for?

Do you have children? Just curious. And did you ride them barefoot and bridleless when you were pregnant?

MyReality
Oct. 11, 2006, 01:58 AM
yeah I agree. At times I was going so fast I wonder stopping him would be a good idea.

alexandra
Oct. 11, 2006, 02:06 AM
Two simple - I do not think that big dressage people are unaware of the mechanics of weight, and legs (at least this stuff was including in all my riding lessons...).
Training a walk piroutte e.g. I have seen quite a lot of people trying and trying and not getting it right. There is one little "trick" I leant ages go from my old old riding trainer. it is about weight and that a horse moves in accordance to what you do on top. So what do we do than after I have showed them what I learnt in a halt is the following. You let the horse walk straight. Than you start working with your outside rein to "awaken" it and give norml aids for doing that walk piroutte. And than you start turning yourself above the hips and look directly to the inside hip of the horse. By this you yourself are really sitting in the right way to give aids for halfpirouttes and the horse will easily understand you bodylanguage. It has to move to the same side of the inside with its frontlegs as anything else would get it out of balance. The same thing works if you start to do trot or even canter travers through the diagonal of the arena where the help of the outside wall is missing.
The magic of dressage is in the correct aids and they are mostly a matter of working with the mechanics of the horse's body in itself ! In the end it is "just" physics and the ability to control ones own body to support/engage these mechanics.
Another thing. We train the horse to be more engaged from the hindends. Why do we do that ? Because as soon as it is really under itself it really does not have chance to lift its head and not go on the bit with a nicely bend neck. If one starts pulling in front the result will be a head that is biting into the chest, but no nice and elegant self carrying expression.

Why am I giving these examples ? Because it is not possible to excel in dressage if one does not understand "mechanics"/anatomy of a horse ! The single rein pull or what you call it is the sae sort of example. if you just pull and do not "lean" over I am sure it does not help, even if I have not tested that thinking about what I am doing at the same time. I have done it as alogical consequence to everything I learned, without even a need to think about what I do. Maybe I am lucky to have had old fashioned trainers for whom riding was not just riding but also educating oneself by studying (old) books, theories of other riding "styles" and so on - a life long learning.

Two simple in my education it did not matter what you ended up doing. Everything was always about complete control over a horse always and a happy horse willingly reacting to ones aids and a happy rider !

mp
Oct. 11, 2006, 02:17 AM
But its great to see you didn't think it was acceptable to run her into someone else on their horse.


You're so right. It's great and I'm better than AVG.

Other posters, please note: Only a moron fool argues with a moron fool. ;)

kkj
Oct. 11, 2006, 02:55 AM
mp so if you enjoy or get great amusement out of reading trainwrecks, cool. Sometimes, I like to post on them just for kicks too. Don't think I will win an argument with the Two Simples of the world and breath a voice of reason into them, but it is fun nonetheless. So perhaps you should revise your statement to read "Only a moron fool would think that s/he can breath reason into a moron fool." Still I think those on this board who think they can ride Salinero better than Anky are moron fools. I would pay to see any of them try, but then again horses are very unpredictable and I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt (and I am sure Anky is not going to offer the ride on Salinero to a moron fool) so lets just let the whole thing go.

silvia
Oct. 11, 2006, 08:36 AM
One rein stop is really effective when applied immediately the horse begins to rear, bolt, buck.

A horse that has been taught to give its face will ORS immediately. It should be applied in a gentler fashion every ride a few times both ways to keep the horse mentally set for a ORS, AND for the rider to be familiar.

The rider employing a ORS needs to know how to brace the outside leg to maintain balance. Takes practise.

For all those reasons, I would say AVG employing a ORS at that time in the ring, once her horse had built up a head of steam, would have been a bad idea FOR HER. He was already in full flight, the horse doubtless may be GP but if not taught to give his face for a ORS would have probably fought it instead of yielding, and AVG pregnant at 2 months if she did not know how to brace that leg would have been at risk of coming off. Big chance of a slip/fall and AVG coming a cropper.

Having said that, perhaps it would be a good idea for her to learn ORS and teach it to her horses, if she is continuing to ride while pregnant, for her own safety. She may be a super rider but you can never be safe enough on a horse, no matter who you are. Horses make honest riders of us all.

mp
Oct. 11, 2006, 09:18 AM
Every thread with Too Simple on it becomes a serial trainwreck. Too Simple does not like or support dressage. She has said so. Yet, she posts here several times a day and must have the last word on all things dressage. She posts the same thought over and over in each thread. Dressage can't hold a candle to western Pleasure, trail riding and endurance. Too Simple also admires Halter type QHs. She thinks there is something wrong with dressage horses who have foamy mouths because Wp horses do not foam. She's never seen a western horse with a wet mouth so there is something wrong with dressage. Stuff like that.

All these things are wonderful,but remember, TS doesn't like dressage but likes to argue about it.

It's hard to imagine someone preferring WP to dressage but some people do and that's fine..... but why hang out here then unless to troll?

Good recap. Looks like the glitch is fixed, so I'll just add to it, for those who can't follow the screwed up posts ...

Two Simp repeated (several times) that NO ONE not EVER should JEOPARDIZE the well-being of someone else to stop her horse. Not me, not you, not Anky, not nobody, not no how. And Anky failed where I, various Pony Clubbers and 4Hers have succeeded. I don't think she was shocked or appalled in the last few posts, though.

pinecone was when JSwan said she liked a pic in the Chronicle of someone on foot in an awards ceremony because her horse would have acted up. pc thinks the people on this thread are rude shouldn't have horses (good manners are important!) and JS obviously hates Anky and thinks she (JS) is a better rider than AVG.

kkj thought I was making fun of her when I used the term "moron fool." But I wasn't. It's a great expression and I plan to use it. I also like "trainwreck on a mobius loop." Excellent. I love new phrases and I steal them wherever I can find them.

Adamantane
Oct. 11, 2006, 01:56 PM
Not long after I first signed on to COTH, I was told by two vintage (well, longtime) COTHers, both into dressage btw, that this dressage forum had a special and unique character, one that would prove educational in many ways and rarely be boring. :yes:

This is the first COTH thread I've read in a couple of weeks front to back (time-warp and all), and I have to say that it certainly lives up to each and every aspect advertised. (And to be completely serious for a moment, there was some useful and practical information embedded in the discussion.)

I certainly enjoyed Miss Dior's post, placed as it was on page nine following all the sharing of views.:yes:

In those immortal words of Emily Letella, "Never mind." :winkgrin:

Miss Dior
Oct. 11, 2006, 01:57 PM
Have not read all this prior thread, but I was there with a front row seat and she most certainly did not plow into any police horse. How ridiculous! He headed toward a closed gate, he was not AIMED at anything. He also did not even make any physical contact with those horses from my vantage point. He finally skidded on the brakes as he approached them. Those are the facts. Something sorely lacking these days.

Adamantane
Oct. 11, 2006, 01:57 PM
And the time-warp glitch is definitely not fixed...:eek:

Rebe
Oct. 11, 2006, 02:17 PM
Oh, I am laughing so hard I snorted my coffee. Someone just posted a LEGITIMATE thread titled "How to stop a freight train" - she has a draft cross that's she's using one rein stops on! Poor poster, I doubt she realizes that there's already a "train wreck" on her same topic...:lol:

Mozart
Oct. 11, 2006, 02:21 PM
You realize, of course, that an eye-witness account from a reasonable and sober (I hope I am not assuming too much :cool: ) person will be discounted? ;)

Sannois
Oct. 11, 2006, 02:23 PM
Have not read all this prior thread, but I was there with a front row seat and she most certainly did not plow into any police horse. How ridiculous! He headed toward a closed gate, he was not AIMED at anything. He also did not even make any physical contact with those horses from my vantage point. He finally skidded on the brakes as he approached them. Those are the facts. Something sorely lacking these days.
Thats the first I knew there was someone on the board that was there!!
This is a whole nuther thing! So where did the running into the horses come from??
Oh I second the Emily Letella line!Never Mind!:no:

Eclectic Horseman
Oct. 11, 2006, 02:40 PM
It appears from the photo that Anky was in fact attempting to use a one hand stop (look at the hand furthest from the foreground.)

Riding a very muscular, strong, balanced, athletic mature stallion is quite a bit different than riding a young 3 year old geeky race horse that basically can only balance on a straight line. Most of us have not even been on a horse that is close to having Salinero's physical prowess and capabilities.

I too have stopped a few panicked bolting horses in my time. And for that reason, as well as the wisdom that comes with age and experience, humility, and common sense, I wouldn't dream of critcizing another rider of the caliber of AVG.

There are quite a few top riders who do not ride their horses into the highly charged atmosphere of the awards ceremony. I recently heard that Cesar Parra did not do so at Devon, and several others were mentioned as well. I think this is the wisest course for the safety of the horses and everyone involved.

PiedPiper
Oct. 11, 2006, 02:58 PM
Shoulda, could, woulda, who really cares!?! It is over and done with, no one was hurt and life can continue on as "normal".

Goodness for some people who dislike and disagree with dressage so much they spend an AWFUL lot of time on here.

Must be nice to spend all this time posting than actually doing anything.

LE
Oct. 11, 2006, 06:07 PM
Miss Dior--the photo I saw showed that very same scenario--it looked as if Salinero was heading back to the in/out gates. The photo showed no police horses, but rather people holding their hands up. It honestly didn't look like a 'bad' bolt, but alas, what can a photo show? Certainly not speed/uncontrolability.

Miss Dior--did you see all of the Games? Or just the Dressage? Did you enjoy? I hope so! I hear Athens is gorgeous. :)

JSwan
Oct. 11, 2006, 06:22 PM
not by me; i appreciated reading the post!

and for the record (again), i love dressage!

though i cheerfully admit i am not as talented a rider as Anky (nor have I ever implied i was) - i am much better looking!


You realize, of course, that an eye-witness account from a reasonable and sober (I hope I am not assuming too much :cool: ) person will be discounted? ;)

Sannois
Oct. 11, 2006, 08:58 PM
do you have a link to that photo?? that was not the one I saw, only anky on sal, with here mouth open, a side shot.

Dressage Art
Oct. 11, 2006, 11:16 PM
if anky ever comes to the us to foxhunt - will someone please tell her there is NO screaming in the field. hold hard, heads up, rider down, is ok. if you're being run off with - we'll all be aware of it long before you manage to get a scream out!.

You would be glad to hear that Anky declined your invitation to foxhunt with you, she said that "holding hard" is not in her dressage vocabulary, but she will be happy to meet you in the dressage arena at the next international horse show.

Miss Dior
Oct. 11, 2006, 11:16 PM
Actually it was the WEG in August in Aachen, not the Olympics in Athens. It was a big bolt 1/3 of the way plus around the arena. Was I sober, that night, yes. Freestyle night, different story!!!! No one bothered to mention that there was probably a 30 plus member German military brass band in the arena at the time too!!! The had just performed for the awards ceremony. This happened during the victory gallop after the hoopla. And Aachen is really beautiful, and in my opinion, a venue not to be missed at least once in every horse lover's lifetime.

Alagirl
Oct. 12, 2006, 12:00 AM
And the time-warp glitch is definitely not fixed...:eek:

*puts on fishnets*

LEEEET'S DO the TIME WARP AGAI-AN

LE
Oct. 12, 2006, 02:22 AM
Miss Dior---whoops! I meant Auchen...not Athens.. I knew that looked wrong when I typed it ;)

Sannois--I'll see if I can find it. It was in my latest issue of Horse Sport, which is Canadian based. While they have a website, I'm not sure how much of the magazine is on that. There were some other hilarious photos from the WEG on there too. Let me see if I can find it.....I don't have a scanner to be able to post it here if I can't. But the shot I saw(which is what I made my post about) was a back shot of Anky and Salinero heading towards people near the outgate.

Sorry Sannois--they don't have it on their website. I could try to take a photo of that photo with my digital camera and upload it, but I'm not sure if that's a copyright infringement? I also am not sure if it would turn out.

The website for this magazine is www.horse-canada.com and then look to the left and scroll down to Horse Sport magazine. If you can find it, good luck! The cover is of the dressage rider who had the gray horse at the WEG...sorry, blanking on the name of them both.

nero
Oct. 12, 2006, 05:22 AM
Have not read all this prior thread, but I was there with a front row seat and she most certainly did not plow into any police horse. How ridiculous! He headed toward a closed gate, he was not AIMED at anything. He also did not even make any physical contact with those horses from my vantage point. He finally skidded on the brakes as he approached them. Those are the facts. Something sorely lacking these days.


THANK YOU,

two simple, care to comment on how you came to your fairly over the top opinion that she 'plowed into the police horses'!!!!! This undermines your otherwise very high credibility with me ;-) hehe

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 06:47 AM
*puts on fishnets*

LEEEET'S DO the TIME WARP AGAI-AN

:lol: :lol: :lol:

JSwan
Oct. 12, 2006, 10:22 AM
no problem - i'll be the one scooping poop. we'll do lunch.

geez - just kidding around - don't you have any sense of humor? guess not...

by the way - "hold hard" just means "stop". in my case, even at a gallop - this is accomplished by merely a half halt and my seat - thanks to years of dressage training.

it's just a jump to the left...


You would be glad to hear that Anky declined your invitation to foxhunt with you, she said that "holding hard" is not in her dressage vocabulary, but she will be happy to meet you in the dressage arena at the next international horse show.

JSwan
Oct. 12, 2006, 12:42 PM
my one rein stops are not as TS describes - and have been accompanied by much prayer and deal making with whatever diety comes to mind.

the "jump to the left" is a further quote from the lyrics of Let's do the time warp.
i used to play Magenta in my salad days. if my horse jumps to the left - i usually fall off.




J Swan, are you talking about a stop like TwoSimple described, from the hindquarters?

I always just stopped the stride from blocking the shoulder... just curious when you write, "it's just a jump to the left... " .

sm
Oct. 12, 2006, 01:11 PM
J Swan, are you talking about a stop like TwoSimple described, from the hindquarters?

I always just stopped the stride from blocking the shoulder... just curious when you write, "it's just a jump to the left... " .

fiona
Oct. 12, 2006, 02:31 PM
I was at WEG too. I did say earlier on and in other threads this scenario was not as reported in the press or by hearsay.

Foxhunting is imho very highly over rated whereas Aachen and other International shows are not.

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 02:37 PM
yes, fiona my dear, unfortunately people will believe what they want to believe. Nevermind the facts.

Oh well.... cheers anyway!:)

LE
Oct. 12, 2006, 02:40 PM
In the magazine I have, it stated that Salinero was stopped by two police horses(I *think* it said crashed, but I can't find the magazine, so don't quote me on that). While that, again was a report from journalists, the photo I have doesn't show any police horses nearby.
I wouldn't diss foxhunting--takes a phenominally fit rider/horse to do that. A few of my friends and students fox hunt and holy moses. You can be out there for hours!

OakesBrae
Oct. 12, 2006, 02:41 PM
Uhhh overrated? Overrated by whom? Compared to what?

A very puzzling statement.

Look, given the picture at hand and the information we had, is it not surprising that anyone would say - my goodness, what a happenstance - an international rider that cannot control her horse? The same thing that we require from every pony clubber and 4Her, an international rider cannot do?

I do not claim to be a better rider than, well, anyone. I do not claim to have a better horse than anyone. (just had to say that lest someone start attaching interesting labels to me)

To the folks that are questioning why anyone might question it - you have to (please) see it from the rest of our perspective.

If my horse is difficult in any way shape or form, the answer given by all Dressage riders is "the answer is dressage". Heavy in the hand? Dressage, my dear, dressage. Unbalanced around a corner? Dressage. Bucks a little after fences? Dressage. Can't stop? Dressage.

And it's never given with a "here's a helpful hint that comes from dressage" sort of tone - it's always "don't you know you poor plebian soul?". The answer always comes from some ODG book.

So then to hear that an icon in the world of dressage has issues stopping her horse - well, it strikes us all as a little funny perhaps. Maybe a little ironic.

I *enjoy* dressage. I have always done quite a bit of dressage with every horse I've ridden, be it an eventer, hunter or jumper. *I* find it useful. So I don't hate your discipline by any stretch of the imagination. I've read all the ODG books, and enjoy dressage competition. Just had to put that out there on the table as well.

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:04 PM
believe what you want to believe.

lalala

OakesBrae
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:10 PM
About what? I'm simply saying - can you see it from our perspective?

I'm sure Salinero is a very difficult horse - I don't doubt it.

I wouldn't want to ride him, largely because I'm done riding difficult horses! Finit! Getting too old for that malarkey!

I was just trying to explain why those who find it ironic might find it ironic!

LE
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:18 PM
I found it funny because to me, the photo I saw really didn't look like he was 'that' out of control. Obviously, there was a lot more than that 1 photo I saw.
As I've said, from the looks of the photo I have, it really looks as if Salinero was scared. Something spooked him. That's apparent by his body language. Honestly, Anky didn't look too out of control position wise(its a back shot of her, so I can't see any facial expression).
There were photos of other dressage riders having bad moments too--a brazillian rider's horse bucked HUGE cantering down center line, and it was quoted as saying 'so and so's horse decided to give a salute of their own...'. I figured that this 'round up' segment was for humerous purposes, and that nothing scary/bad had happened, so all was well with the universe. :)

NoDQhere
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:21 PM
I haven't gotten into this thread because it just seemed so silly. I have a feeling that if this had happened to someone other than Anky, we wouldn't even be reading about it.

Anyone who has NEVER been run off with (or bucked off) hasn't ridden very much or on more than one horse.

One rein stops can be effective, but remember that most of the NHers who advocate them are stopping horses 1/2 the size of Salinero and probably 1/10the strength :yes: And the one rein stop isn't foolproof and can be dangerous. How do you suppose they tip horses over in the movies?

ANY horse can panic and a GP Dressage horse is very strong.

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:23 PM
It's only a Big Deal for the internet railbirds who can ride better, don't you know, never mind the proof :lol:

Sannois
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:31 PM
I was at WEG too. I did say earlier on and in other threads this scenario was not as reported in the press or by hearsay.

Foxhunting is imho very highly over rated whereas Aachen and other International shows are not.

If I ever heard one.. Tell that to the folks on the foxhunting forum!!
I am sure they would be more than willing to take you ouot on a nice cold crisp day and on a big ready to go field hunter and see if you still thought it was over rated!!! :lol: :lol: :yes:

Sannois
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:37 PM
believe what you want to believe.

lalala

What does that mean?? Seriously eggie you have been very out of sorts lately! Why is it Dressage folk cant see two sides to anything.. No one said they could ride better than Anky or anyone for that matter, I think Oakesbrae summed it up nicely! Why cant folks not get so defensive.
Its not even winter folks.. Danf think of what it will be like in January!
Now everyone deep breath, and (((((((Group Hug))))))))):D ;)

Sannois
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:42 PM
I found it funny because to me, the photo I saw really didn't look like he was 'that' out of control. Obviously, there was a lot more than that 1 photo I saw.
As I've said, from the looks of the photo I have, it really looks as if Salinero was scared. Something spooked him. That's apparent by his body language. Honestly, Anky didn't look too out of control position wise(its a back shot of her, so I can't see any facial expression).
There were photos of other dressage riders having bad moments too--a brazillian rider's horse bucked HUGE cantering down center line, and it was quoted as saying 'so and so's horse decided to give a salute of their own...'. I figured that this 'round up' segment was for humerous purposes, and that nothing scary/bad had happened, so all was well with the universe. :)
The one photo I saw looked like a big canter and his ears were pricked like Whoo hoo, this is fun.. not some crazed eyes rolled back in his head wacko! LOL LE Thanks for the offer to find the Photos, its fine, very sweet of you to offer! :)

fiona
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:45 PM
Dahlings!
I've hunted the cream of the country and i've been to Aachen and other International shows i know which hospitality i prefer. You of course are entitled to your own opinions even if sadly, they are quite quite wrong!

Skirmish on!

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:46 PM
Well, it's like this, Sannois. It didn't even happen, according to anyone who was there, but that does not stop the ranting and raving about what did not happen. So what is your problem again?:confused:

What are the two sides? It didn't happen.

LE
Oct. 12, 2006, 03:58 PM
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l77/LE1234/Image001.jpg

Photo from the magazine of Anky and Salinero in the victory gallop. Hope this works!

OakesBrae
Oct. 12, 2006, 04:06 PM
What didn't happen (according to those who were there) was that the horse didn't crash into the police horses.

But I believe the eyewitness account DID say that the horse ran off.

I've ridden plenty of rank animals. Been bucked off, run away with, and even a time or too scraped off on arena walls.

Perhaps you've never had it smugly said to you that "if only you practiced Dressage" (said by a woman trotting by on a horse who is obviously so strung out behind and cranked in in front) "your horse wouldn't do x y and z" (as I'm trying to reform a horse who had one too many bouts with the draw reins in the hands of a Dressage competitor). In that regard, I can see why you wouldn't see the irony. I've just heard it once too many times from DQ wannabes :)

Of course, one or two or 10 bad apples shouldn't spoil the bunch, so I thought it best to explain to the non-DQs on this board why the perception of Dressage and this situation might be ironic to some.

Oh well, guess when you try to be helpful it always does seem to bite you in the butt. I don't even know why I try anymore.

LE
Oct. 12, 2006, 04:10 PM
I wonder how it became that she had to 'crash' into two police horses?? The photo I linked simply shows Salinero looking for the outgate.( he looks like he's going pretty quick actually--now that I am looking at his back legs critically).

I think the weird part of these threads is that everyone is 'assuming' people are judging Anky's riding via this acknowledgement/comment. I don't think that's it at all!! I know it wasnt' for me. I just got a giggle out of the irony. Just shows you that horses will always be horses--unpredictable.

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 04:14 PM
She didn't crash into anyone, despite what has been said here.

Just the facts, ma'am.

Kerrysmom818
Oct. 12, 2006, 04:18 PM
OakesBrae - I LOVED both of your posts - I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. It's a shame the DQs can't see the irony in the situation, whether police horses were at risk or not. Quite honestly, when I opened the two photos shown, I certainly didn't see what I expected to see. If it weren't for the expression on Anky's face or the spectator's reaction, I wouldn't have realized it was a "runaway" - it sure didn't look like the runaways I've experienced . . .

OakesBrae
Oct. 12, 2006, 04:28 PM
that's the police horse's job. to be there any time 'bumper cars' are needed. and gee, why would they be there all the time? BECAUSE - because it happens all the time. and it was during the award ceremony, when even some AMERICAN horses have taken off - oh my my my.



Actually the quite funny bit about the whole thing was that it was a post of slc's *in defence* of Anky that caused the whole ruckus (see above quote).

In fact, if you go back to the beginning of the thread, it was slc who originally turned this into an Anky-bashfest - unintended though her actions might have been. The posts above hers were pretty darned innocent.

LE
Oct. 12, 2006, 04:42 PM
Thanks what I'm asking egontoast...how did it get said that she crashed into two police horses? I read that here and elsewhere, but nowhere in my magazine did it say she had to crash into two police horses to stop.

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 04:55 PM
How did it get said? Like anything gets said. People make it up so they can have a reason to be shocked and appalled.

Boring lives, I guess.

fiona
Oct. 12, 2006, 05:04 PM
I'm shocked and appalled.

OakesBrae
Oct. 12, 2006, 05:08 PM
et, I saw a Russian Master totally drunk riding a GP test in the halter to win a bet, which he did.

okay THIS story I gotta hear :)

OakesBrae
Oct. 12, 2006, 05:09 PM
Hey, the posts are going wonky again!

JSwan
Oct. 12, 2006, 05:09 PM
yes, and i acknowledged that.

hmmmm - foxhunting is no better or worse than any other sport or discipline. international competition is wonderful and fabulous to watch. i wouldn't rate one above or below the other.

why on earth you need to denigrate other disciplines is beyond me.




I was at WEG too. I did say earlier on and in other threads this scenario was not as reported in the press or by hearsay.

Foxhunting is imho very highly over rated whereas Aachen and other International shows are not.

JSwan
Oct. 12, 2006, 05:11 PM
i know - basically i just thought it was ironic too.



I think the weird part of these threads is that everyone is 'assuming' people are judging Anky's riding via this acknowledgement/comment. I don't think that's it at all!! I know it wasnt' for me. I just got a giggle out of the irony. Just shows you that horses will always be horses--unpredictable.

Dressage Art
Oct. 12, 2006, 05:23 PM
I understand the “irony” in the fact that the several times World Champion has to cry for help in the competition arena because she is not able to control her horse. I also know people who don’t think that GP horse is a “real” GP horse is it’s totally bomb proof and you can take this horse anywhere: to the trail ride, to 4th of July parade, to the cross country horse and can put the real beginner on the GP horse and he/she will do take care of them as schoolmaster will do. I know that in the perfect worlds the GP horse can be taken in to the battle field and will not blink the eye from the gun being fired from his/her back or from the flag being waved from her/his back. That’s in the PERFECT WORLD and in THEORY. I never saw and never knew such horses. Yet, I saw a Russian Master totally drunk riding a GP test in the halter to win a bet, which he did.

I’m not a follower of Anky, but I’m appalled how fast people are to attack a pregnant woman, who had a mistake.

What about Briar who spooked and refused to go next to the camera guy last year? He did it 2 or 3 times, during the test. I bet he saw many. Many camera guys but this one was special and his rider (what a gorgeous guy) wasn’t able to control him either.

Anybody who knows my mare will tell you that she is about as bomb proof as they come and I can go with her anywhere and she’ll be fine. YET when we showed at the Pebble Beach in the main arena, she was TERRIFIED of the flags and was rearing to get away from them. Who would have known? I don’t have a row of flags flapping violently on the wind at home to practice next to.

Things happen, try to be kind and not to throw the stones at people who made a mistake, it will come around and bite you in your ass latter.

Moll
Oct. 12, 2006, 06:32 PM
try to be kind and not to throw the stones at people who made a mistake, it will come around and bite you in your ass latter.

They will come, surely, not it?

:lol:

fiona
Oct. 12, 2006, 06:53 PM
hmmmm - foxhunting is no better or worse than any other sport or discipline. international competition is wonderful and fabulous to watch. i wouldn't rate one above or below the other.
why on earth you need to denigrate other disciplines is beyond me.

I didn't denigrate another discipline - i said imho foxhunting was over rated which is my personal evaluation made after lots of experiences. If i'd denigrated it i would have said it was neither a sport nor a discipline but an affront to the equestrian arts,philosophies and doctrines. See the difference? However that is NOT what i said.

Aachen, again imho after many personal evaluations cannot be spoken of highly enough even when things go wrong, the riders fail and the weather stinks. This does not mean other venues are denigrated just that imho it is top of the list of chosen hobbies, past times and vacations. All things are not equal.

Sannois
Oct. 12, 2006, 06:56 PM
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l77/LE1234/Image001.jpg

Photo from the magazine of Anky and Salinero in the victory gallop. Hope this works!
You went to all that trouble to scan that picture and everything..
Ummm Now Eggie?? Other than your attitude, the problem seems to be that something did happen according to that photograph.. Those arent police horses granted, but worse, innocent bystanders. So that did not happen either?? Just papparazzi?? :D

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 06:59 PM
Something happened? Sure, something happened. The horse bolted. YAWN.

What didn't happen is the horse crashing into police horses or bystanders. That's what didn't happen.

sm
Oct. 12, 2006, 07:07 PM
DING DING DING we have a winner:

from 193 & 222: "I didn't denigrate another discipline - i said imho foxhunting was over rated which is my personal evaluation made after lots of experiences. If i'd denigrated it i would have said it was neither a sport nor a discipline but an affront to the equestrian arts,philosophies and doctrines. See the difference? However that is NOT what i said."

an entire sport was denigrated, the offending comment met the requirements of the big 2 out of 3:

den-i-grate
–verb (used with object),
1. to speak damagingly of; criticize in a derogatory manner; sully; defame: to denigrate someone's character.
2. to treat or represent as lacking in value or importance; belittle; disparage: to denigrate someone's contributions to a project.
3. to make black; blacken: rain clouds denigrating the sky.

LE
Oct. 12, 2006, 08:19 PM
Sannois--I actually took that picture with my digital camera--partly to also show folks what I found amusing by it. If you see that photo, you can understand that it looks funny....just in the irony of it all--she's in a victory gallop(you can see the ribbon on Salinero's bridle) and he's obviously spooked. I mean, that's horses!

The pregnancy thing really shouldn't be an issue though. No offence, but any rider who choses to compete whilst pregnant--that is their choice and sadly, there are outcomes to those choices. Nicole Shenanian Smith, a GP jumper fell at Spruce Meadows 6 months preggers, and returned to compete in the afternoon. All we heard about that was what terrible person she was. hey, you know what? If the docs say it's ok, and they've chosen to ride pregnant, then that's that. I don't focus on the pregnancy part.
What they chose to do with their bodies in their sport is their choice. Not mine.

I'd still like to know where the media got that she had to stop via crashing into police horses. Hmmmmm. Weirdness.

Sannois
Oct. 12, 2006, 09:05 PM
Sannois--I actually took that picture with my digital camera--partly to also show folks what I found amusing by it. If you see that photo, you can understand that it looks funny....just in the irony of it all--she's in a victory gallop(you can see the ribbon on Salinero's bridle) and he's obviously spooked. I mean, that's horses!

The pregnancy thing really shouldn't be an issue though. No offence, but any rider who choses to compete whilst pregnant--that is their choice and sadly, there are outcomes to those choices. Nicole Shenanian Smith, a GP jumper fell at Spruce Meadows 6 months preggers, and returned to compete in the afternoon. All we heard about that was what terrible person she was. hey, you know what? If the docs say it's ok, and they've chosen to ride pregnant, then that's that. I don't focus on the pregnancy part.
What they chose to do with their bodies in their sport is their choice. Not mine.

I'd still like to know where the media got that she had to stop via crashing into police horses. Hmmmmm. Weirdness.
The Irony was lost on most folks! I can not understand why everyone gets so up in arms over Anky.. Its like getting all bent about some hollywood star.. They are human, Anky has alot of talent, and alot of money and quality horses to back it up.. Just like alot of top pros do . If It was an eventer or a Jumper rider I would have thought it ironic and funny as well.
As for the pregnancy, thats her problem and not ours if she chooses to ride she takes the consequences as anyone does.
I am not sure but I believe the very first post on here is a link to an article that mentions the police horses.
:confused: ;)

egontoast
Oct. 12, 2006, 09:16 PM
I can not understand why everyone gets so up in arms over Anky..

yes why are there so many threads about this one person? Heck,why are there so many threads about this incident. LE had some going on a few different boards a little while ago. Why are you guys all worked up about this rider?

Dressage Art
Oct. 12, 2006, 09:43 PM
They will come, surely, not it?

:lol:

English is my 5th language, my native language is Russian. Care to converse? ;) :lol:

Equinetech
Oct. 12, 2006, 11:15 PM
Even us trashy, backyard trail riders know you don't ever use another horse as a "bumper car" to stop your uncontrollable runaway. NEVER. To do so is to take human life into your own hands, and that is never acceptable.
Really? Cause we do it every day in the rodeo world. It's called being a pickup man and next to the bullfighters, they're the next most lifesaving things out there.

The MP horses are trained for things like this. It is not like they just took Old Dobbin from Fluffy Pants Farm and used him to block the out gate. Open your eyes. Use some common sense-we all know what happens at the out gate at these big events-THAT IS WHY THE MP HORSES ARE THERE. To act as pickupmen/outriders.

LE
Oct. 12, 2006, 11:31 PM
Ok...not to start an argument, but egontoast....how did you know I posted this on different webboards? Not that I need to explain, but I was really surprised by the response being SO negative, I figured maybe different views from different webboards might shed some light. Didn't. I don't understand the Anky following, and it really , really baffled me. This is my first experience in seeing Anky ride----up until then, I'd only heard about her here...and honestly? I thought she was a HE at first(the name didn't sound like a woman's).
I was posting in regards to the situation----I would have posted it in regards to any other rider who had been that successful at the WEG, and then had problems in a victory gallop--I just think its funny IRONICALLY. It just goes to show you that ribbons and medals can't stop a horse from being a horse. :D ;)

Adamantane
Oct. 12, 2006, 11:39 PM
English is my 5th language, my native language is Russian. Care to converse? ;) :lol:

The absence of a Cyrillic font on COTH surely will cover any demurrer.:winkgrin:

claire
Oct. 12, 2006, 11:40 PM
Thats the first I knew there was someone on the board that was there!!
This is a whole nuther thing! So where did the running into the horses come from??
Oh I second the Emily Letella line!Never Mind!:no:


News Item from Anky's own website. ( "From the Horse's Mouth" ;) )

It would seem that there WERE police horses that blocked Salinero's flight path and helped divert a possible accident.


Dressage shows (http://www.anky.nl/index.asp?page=nieuws&subpage=Dressage shows&lang=en)
Agenda (http://www.anky.nl/index.asp?page=nieuws&subpage=Agenda&lang=en)


"Salinero gets frightened during prizegiving ceremony (*)
Many of you have seen or read about yesterday's prizegiving ceremony. Salinero started running AND NEVER STOPPED! Thank God there were some policemen with horses outside the arena, they had just done a demo. They managed to stop Salinero by blocking the road to the stable area.
However Salinero is still not feeling well after he had done this. Everytime he leaves his box he starts trembling like a leaf. Anky hopes that Salinero will be okay again tomorrow.
Tonight the Special-riders had the opportunity to ride in the arena with flood-light. Hopefully Salinero will have confidence again tomorrow."

Sannois
Oct. 12, 2006, 11:58 PM
News Item from Anky's own website. ( "From the Horse's Mouth" ;) )

It would seem that there WERE police horses that blocked Salinero's flight path and helped divert a possible accident.


Dressage shows (http://www.anky.nl/index.asp?page=nieuws&subpage=Dressage shows&lang=en)
Agenda (http://www.anky.nl/index.asp?page=nieuws&subpage=Agenda&lang=en)


"Salinero gets frightened during prizegiving ceremony (*)
Many of you have seen or read about yesterday's prizegiving ceremony. Salinero started running AND NEVER STOPPED! Thank God there were some policemen with horses outside the arena, they had just done a demo. They managed to stop Salinero by blocking the road to the stable area.
However Salinero is still not feeling well after he had done this. Everytime he leaves his box he starts trembling like a leaf. Anky hopes that Salinero will be okay again tomorrow.
Tonight the Special-riders had the opportunity to ride in the arena with flood-light. Hopefully Salinero will have confidence again tomorrow."
Trembling like a leaf?? Whats up with that???

nero
Oct. 13, 2006, 02:24 AM
News Item from Anky's own website. ( "From the Horse's Mouth" ;) )

It would seem that there WERE police horses that blocked Salinero's flight path and helped divert a possible accident.


Dressage shows (http://www.anky.nl/index.asp?page=nieuws&subpage=Dressage shows&lang=en)
Agenda (http://www.anky.nl/index.asp?page=nieuws&subpage=Agenda&lang=en)


"Salinero gets frightened during prizegiving ceremony (*)
Many of you have seen or read about yesterday's prizegiving ceremony. Salinero started running AND NEVER STOPPED! Thank God there were some policemen with horses outside the arena, they had just done a demo. They managed to stop Salinero by blocking the road to the stable area.
However Salinero is still not feeling well after he had done this. Everytime he leaves his box he starts trembling like a leaf. Anky hopes that Salinero will be okay again tomorrow.
Tonight the Special-riders had the opportunity to ride in the arena with flood-light. Hopefully Salinero will have confidence again tomorrow."


You'll notice that it does not say that the horse connected with the police horses at all or that he plowed into them. The word blocking could as easily be used to describe a sight barrier or simple deterent to the horse running more, most horses would choose to stop before actually hitting another horse!!! And I think trembling like a leaf could be a case of translation, maybe the ease of translation of that concept makes it sound like he was a litle more on edge than he was. BUT even if it doesn't, even if he plowed into eight shetlands carrying disadvantaged children to a charity event, even if Sal was shaking like a leaf and was a nutbag because he got scared of his own poop on the ground, does that make you detractors feel better about singling out Anky as flawed and asserting that she is the Evil Queen of Dressage? Does it have any bearing on the fact that this woman continually proves herself as a fantastic horsewoman every weekend on a variety of horses? I just shake my head an wonder why so much energy goes into saying disparaging things about a woman you don't know, who has never done anything to hurt you. You make me laugh. God help you guys if you ever err of have a horse do something wrong/unexpected under you ! But then for that to happen you'd probably actually have to get OFF the internet and ON A horse, wouldn't it!!!

Sabine
Oct. 13, 2006, 02:54 AM
This thread really shows who rides and doesn't...there are other disciplines chiming in- but they are used to stuff like this- because they ride over stones and hills and don't care if the extended trot is balanced, and then there are those who ride 'just dressage' and call this a 'mistake'....let me tell you- it's reality of any event- it could have happened to Brentina, Floriano, Matinee and many others and anyone who has ever been at a big event like this and helped, worked or ridden there knows that it is like sitting on explosives, at night- with flashlights, crowds, applause etc..and it's just a balance between the rider and the horse and the tension and sometimes- especially when you're pregnant (only those that actually HAVE kids chime in here) - you are NOT on top of it...because you really feel like PUKING!

so ease up you overzealous crowd.....and those who know - know that I know who you are!!

CHEERS- and party on!!

fiona
Oct. 13, 2006, 04:01 AM
an entire sport was denigrated, the offending comment met the requirements of the big 2 out of 3:

No. If i had said imho foxhunting was highly over rated i didn't know why you all did it as it was a complete waste of a nice horse and your time that would be denigrating your sport. I could expand on this and come up with a trillion more examples which if nothing else is a break from the constant and tedious denigration of Anky which seems on the other hand to be just fine. I said, to me, personally, foxhunting is over rated i would prefer to be watching Aachen this denigrates no one person or activity.

egontoast
Oct. 13, 2006, 07:03 AM
Never mind all that. Does Fluffy Pants Farm have a website?

Sannois
Oct. 13, 2006, 08:06 AM
Never mind all that. Does Fluffy Pants Farm have a website?
:lol: :lol:

egontoast
Oct. 13, 2006, 09:41 AM
Fluffypants-Why I love google image- and horse related too. Can't post photos so hope link works. Lovely, isn't he?

http://www.library.otago.ac.nz/hocken/online%20shop%20publications/guy_with_fluffy_pants.JPG

OakesBrae
Oct. 13, 2006, 09:41 AM
Poor Salinero - hope he is okay - sounds like something might have gotten him (for those who think I'm being all anti-Anky, I mean a bee or something AND even if it were "just" someone from the boards, I'd hope that horse was okay too!).

JSwan
Oct. 13, 2006, 09:44 AM
maybe the media was just looking to print something salacious? one poster suggested that anky should have aimed at the press - maybe that would have been better if they were exaggerating the incident!

when anky and i "do lunch" i'll let you know. ;-)






I'd still like to know where the media got that she had to stop via crashing into police horses. Hmmmmm. Weirdness.

Adamantane
Oct. 13, 2006, 10:13 AM
Perhaps there are European equivalents of The National Enquirer and Star. I think the Brits have some rag called the Tattler that thrives on innuendo and salacity.

Surely someone on the thread must know.

Instead of stories about Princess Grace's car plunging off the mountainside because some disgruntled Monegasque allegedly cut her brakelines, we have this. (Although you'd think the sleaze press somehow would have worked Zara Phillips into the thing, but maybe royalty only sells in America...)

Phaxxton
Oct. 13, 2006, 10:37 AM
My goodness! There were 32,000 screaming fans in the arena and a huge German band playing. I think it'd be bigger news if a horse DIDN'T take off.

Bolting happens - even to the best.

claire
Oct. 13, 2006, 01:06 PM
An interesting moment in the prize giving ceremony. While all photographers were lined up to take that ultimate victory gallop shot of the German team, a horse and ride flew by. Looking away from the lens we spotted Salinero on the run with Anky van Grunsven. The gelding spooked and had taken off and there was no stopping to him, not even a double Olympic champion could curb the instinct of this animal. She shouted "help" and had to steer Salinero into two police horses to bring him to a stop. It was a very scary sight and even Anky held her heart there. At the press conference she said "Salinero really got scared in the prize giving and I did as well. I did the fastest trip today," she joked.
http://www.eurodressage.com/images/2006/06weg/vangrunsven-8789.jpgBack to the WEG Index (http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/shows/2006/06weg/index.html)


This piece from Eurodressage was linked to earlier on this thread...
Perhaps where some are remembering that "Anky steered her horse into the police horses"
Just various media's (and people's) POV :confused: Just like IRL even eyewitness acccounts differ.

My point: probably the same interest would have been shown had it been Debbie McDonald/Isabel Werth/Hubertus Schmidt whose horse bolted.

Just like the media is all over Paris Hilton when she has a car accident.
I think once it has been determined no one was hurt (thankfully)
people find it "interesting" that even world champions/stars put their breeches on one leg at a time! :winkgrin:

What I find really cool is that obviously Anky herself has a much better sense of humor/sense of the ridiculous than her fan club members! :cool:

mp
Oct. 13, 2006, 01:10 PM
Fluffypants-Why I love google image- and horse related too. Can't post photos so hope link works. Lovely, isn't he?

http://www.library.otago.ac.nz/hocken/online%20shop%20publications/guy_with_fluffy_pants.JPG

Now there's a man to snuggle up with ... sans spurs, of course.

LE
Oct. 13, 2006, 01:15 PM
Glad Anky can joke about it--I wonder if Salinero was stung by something? He was obviously frightened as he was heading 'home'.

Fluffy pants? Too funny :)

Equinetech
Oct. 13, 2006, 01:40 PM
Never mind all that. Does Fluffy Pants Farm have a website?
*snicker*

I've had a tough week of exams, and I just needed to blow off some steam. So I picked you nice unsuspecting lads and ladies over here on the dressage forum and played a rodeo/vet joke on you.

*snicker*

googleimages. I forgot about them.

heh. heh. heh.

Fluffypants Farm is what happens when Equinetech has been up for like 4700 days straight studying. I couldn't come up with anything better.

Ms Egontoast, I bow to your mastery.

NoDQhere
Oct. 13, 2006, 02:03 PM
Fluffypants-Why I love google image- and horse related too. Can't post photos so hope link works. Lovely, isn't he?

http://www.library.otago.ac.nz/hocken/online%20shop%20publications/guy_with_fluffy_pants.JPG

Come on, ladies! Those are chaps, not pants! Angora, no less:lol:

Sannois
Oct. 13, 2006, 02:41 PM
Fluffypants-Why I love google image- and horse related too. Can't post photos so hope link works. Lovely, isn't he?

http://www.library.otago.ac.nz/hocken/online%20shop%20publications/guy_with_fluffy_pants.JPG
I want a pair of those.. Wonder how they look with Full seats???
:lol: :lol: :winkgrin:

pinecone
Oct. 13, 2006, 04:17 PM
Perhaps there are European equivalents of The National Enquirer and Star. I think the Brits have some rag called the Tattler that thrives on innuendo and salacity.

well, we've got eurodressage and the internet...........................!

claire - not sure who is in anky's fan club, some people simply prefer the truth, maybe these are the people being snidely labeled as anky fan club members? what i saw were a lot of people getting defensive at the innuendos, ignorant assumptions, and general nastiness being directed towards anky for something which was really not that shockingly unique at all (spooking and bolting).

Equibrit
Oct. 13, 2006, 04:32 PM
http://www.tatler.co.uk/

Don't think this is quite what you meant. Don't think they would appreciate being called a "rag".

What you meant was probably The News of the World
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/

claire
Oct. 13, 2006, 04:59 PM
well, we've got eurodressage and the internet...........................!

claire - not sure who is in anky's fan club, some people simply prefer the truth, maybe these are the people being snidely labeled as anky fan club members? what i saw were a lot of people getting defensive at the innuendos, ignorant assumptions, and general nastiness being directed towards anky for something which was really not that shockingly unique at all (spooking and bolting).

:confused: Pinecone, First of all, I wasn't aware that eurodressage was considered a "rag". However, every major equestrian news source carried a piece about Salinero bolting. INCLUDING, Anky's own web page! Including COTH!!!

It was the WEG. Big International Riders. The top horse in the world bolted out of the WEG arena...it IS news.

I really do not see where people were being "Ignorant or Nasty towards Anky" Please quote???? :confused: I think they were being silly about Salinero being "In Jail" etc. after realizing that no one was hurt (Thankfully)
Come on, even Anky herself makes a joke of "having the fastest horse" ;)

Finally, yes, I think a few people on this board get a little too defensive about Anky. As a previous poster pointed out: she is a very talented rider but at the end of the day she is human and Salinero is a horse!

pinecone
Oct. 13, 2006, 09:11 PM
claire, to save my time, i'll simply agree to disagree. because if you didn't notice any of the arrogance, ignorance, or nastiness in the 13 pages of this thread, it would just be a waste of my time to point it out to you.

and, for the record, it is one thing to cover the bolting incident, and another thing to try to spin it and dramatize it and make innuendos about it. all reporting is NOT equal, nor is all reporting neutral. one only needs to watch FOX news to see that. wink

Adamantane
Oct. 13, 2006, 10:21 PM
all reporting is NOT equal, nor is all reporting neutral. one only needs to watch FOX news to see that. wink

Yes. Or, to be entirely fair, Dan Rather for most of his career. :yes:

There just isn't much integrity anywhere in modern journalism. :sadsmile:

alexandra
Oct. 13, 2006, 10:58 PM
my goodness:

Egontoast you might believe the issue !!! Even though it might makes a crack into your picture of AVG. Salinero took off and was only stopped by two police horses in whatever way. It was shown on german tv and there are some reports on it in German horse magazins. Aswell in some of the other magazins already quoted and even photographed.
Isn't that enough ? Or is it like the tale that the US made up that they were on the moon and all pictures are a fake ? And you will never believe it has happened ?

Anyways: It does not matter if it was AVG IW, or who ever. A top rider was not able to control his/her horse which I myself find quite astonishing.
secondly It doesnot matter if she actually bumped into the police horses are just stirred him into his direction and he stopped in front of them. Fact is without them something very dangerously might have happened. And fact is also that at least in my riding education I was told not to stir my horse into the direction of others using them as a bumper, no matter if I can stop before or take the risk of really bumping into them.
Another thing: if you are pregnant and have a horse that is easily to be scared you either take the risk or you leave it. Sitting on a horse screaming for help is not horseman ship in my eyes being pregnant or not being AVG or not.
Again I do not care if it is AVG, IW or who ever. In regards of any top rider (and even any everyday trail rider) I find it pretty scary that a person can not control a horse first place and second stirrs it towards other horses to be stopped.

Oakstable
Oct. 13, 2006, 11:08 PM
This was the WEG with countless photographer and videographers.

Seems like we keep going back over what did or did not happen.

Isn't it on film, besides the one frame we've seen?

egontoast
Oct. 13, 2006, 11:18 PM
Egontoast you might believe the issue !!! Even though it might makes a crack into your picture of AVG. Salinero took off and was only stopped by two police horses in whatever way.

HuH? SO What? There was no CRASH. A horse bolted. It happens.
Is there no end to this foolishness. I'd say the same thing if it was anyone else- Hubertus, Parra, anyone. I ain't no Anky slave ho.

Kareen
Oct. 15, 2006, 03:23 PM
The way I see it the foolishness is not that it happened or someone commented on it (this would probably be expected at any event with worldwide coverage?) but more that people seem to take personal offense by it.
Get a life people, it wasn't you who Salinero took off with so maybe stop being more shocked than the rider herself *LOL*

nero
Oct. 15, 2006, 10:37 PM
The way I see it the foolishness is not that it happened or someone commented on it (this would probably be expected at any event with worldwide coverage?) but more that people seem to take personal offense by it.
Get a life people, it wasn't you who Salinero took off with so maybe stop being more shocked than the rider herself *LOL*


That's funny, maybe you might take your own advice when it comes to rk!!!!

The way I see the foolishness over the whole rk thang is not that it happens or that others comment on it but that people take personal offence to it! It wasn't any of the anti-rk'ers who were using rk, so they should get a life and stopped being more shocked than the people who actually ride it!

See.....we can all be 'guilty' of having an opinion contrary to yours, doesn't mean those same people don't have a life or need to be quiet about their distaste for something. Personally I think people posting here that a certain rider 'plowed' into two police horses (which she didn't) a) in order to save her basically more valuable horse 2) to protect her unborn child who some here think shouldn't have bee exposed to the mother's riding 3) and therefore proves that she's not such a great horse person afterall and shouldn't be riding such a beast in public, just a bit more annoying than the world's top riders putting their very fit and supple horses btv for half an hour a day. But that's where were are different I guess. But perhaps keep this in mind next time you poo poo someone's right to get annoyed at the posters here who don't show your tolerance for hysteria and unfair and over exaggerated comment purely to push an agenda.

HardHeadedHanna
Oct. 16, 2006, 01:55 AM
I remember this rider from the Olympics, wasn't she pregnant then too? Isn't she the same lady who was greeted by like 300 photographers at Amsterdam Airport after the Olympics and then made an announcement right at the airport that she was pregnant? Well, if she could ride pregnant in Athens I see no problem with her riding now.
Maybe it's not so bad that she takes chances riding Salinero but maybe it's not so great for little kids seeing her do this, it could make young riders try and ride horses they're not ready for and they could get hurt. Salinero is something else:winkgrin: , can't wait to get the Salinero Breyer.

yaya
Oct. 16, 2006, 02:22 AM
In the November 2006 issue of Horse Illustrated, on page 12 is a picture of Anky during the bolt. It's not the picture from Eurodressage's site.

She has a grimace on her face, her left hand is braced on the base of Salinero's neck at the withers, her right hand is up and pulling back at the level of her stomach, and she is standing up in the saddle.

Would this be in the process of maybe a pulley rein?

silaxo1
Oct. 16, 2006, 03:18 AM
I was there. It was only one "help."

WOW! Ain't we all got sumpen better to go on about?

Kareen
Oct. 16, 2006, 03:25 AM
Well nero I guess where we disagree is about what is or what we think should be a topic of general interest *LOL* Rk-discussion per se affects the dressage-world of which I consider myself part. I do NOT consider myself part of Anky van Grunsven's private world or reality like some of the folks up here seem to do.

Re. putting a more valuable horse's life/wellbeing over the life/wellbeing of two policehorses is something you would consider what please? Justified? Very interesting approach to horsemanship on your end indeed...

nero
Oct. 16, 2006, 03:35 AM
Re. putting a more valuable horse's life/wellbeing over the life/wellbeing of two policehorses is something you would consider what please? Justified? Very interesting approach to horsemanship on your end indeed...

Please re-read, I DIDN'T say that, I was paraphrasing what others here were implying and I think the implications are absurd.

Alagirl
Oct. 16, 2006, 04:03 AM
:eek: They put him in the slammer!
www.dressageunltd.com/profiles/zebra/0518zpass1.jpg (http://www.dressageunltd.com/profiles/zebra/0518zpass1.jpg)

HardHeadedHanna
Oct. 20, 2006, 10:30 PM
Hehe, Alagirl. Salinero's going to jail, even the rider in the pic is black. That's a great pic, I didn't even realize the rider had black face until my