Why do some race owners not want to do the right thing?? (Sun TB Friends)

[summerhorse]

http://www.tbfriends.com

I think they should name him Promise...

Sunday, August 27th... The gelding is bay and tall. A big right ankle, which the vet called a wind puff. Every time this gelding went into the starting gate he knew it was a war. And off he would go, like a speeding train, and he earned his owner almost six hundred thousand dollars. Anthony is his groom. A happy man who loves horses, Anthony sends most of his wages home to his family in Mexico. The tall bay gelding and Anthony love each other. The gelding will squeal when he catches sight of Anthony. And Anthony always has a pocket full of peppermint candies for the tall bay gelding.

Anthony phones and asks are you Joe, the old man who saves race horses? His english is broken, but Anthony says he is friends with Bill, a trainer at the track. Anthony pleads with me to take the tall bay gelding. They are getting ready to kill him because his big ankle, which was suppose to only be a wind puff, is sore and he can no longer race.

The track vet is a friend of mine. Often he will wave me to his truck and hand over a bottle of bute. Or bandages. Or a twelve pack of wormer. He sometimes buys us both coffee, and tells me how lucky the horses are when I rescue them. A very nice man. I phone the vet and say hey, is the tall bay gelding with the sore ankle gonna be killed? The vet says he will call me back. And about two hours later the trainer phones and asks if I would bring the tall bay gelding to my ranch. The owner has ordered the tall bay gelding killed, but the trainer and Anthony can sneak him out the front gate. Just never say his name. Promise me.

So I promise the trainer I will never say his name, and yesterday morning the trailer was waiting. Here comes the tall bay gelding, beautiful beyond words, and both of his ankles are wrapped. He earned almost six hundred grand for an owner who giggled all the way to the bank. And then said kill him. Right into the trailer the tall bay gelding goes, like a pro, and Anthony the groom is crying. He gives his friend one last peppermint candy, and 90 minutes later the tall bay gelding is on our ranch. Yelling at a field full of fillies. Bragging about how fast he is.

There are days when people at the race track come together to save a horse. So many secrets. Cathy and I have secrets with trainers that reach back to 1995. The secrets allow horses to live out their lives. Not a big deal anymore. Just the way things are.

The San Francisco breeze reached us last night, so the mosquitoes moaned and groaned and flew off to warmer places. In a round pen the tall bay gelding with the sore ankle had grown quiet. His head hanging down to his knees. Race horses, just like dogs, become very attached to one person. The tall bay gelding was missing his friend Anthony. I gave the tall bay gelding a peppermint candy, but after a few moments he dropped it into the dirt. I am not Anthony. Which means the peppermint candy does not taste the same.

A big thank you to Kit and Donna of Red Bluff, who came yesterday and adopted the very pretty mare Far North Fire. A wonderful home. Far North Fire has lived in many places, including fancy show barns. We know at last she has a forever home. Thank you Kit and Donna for giving her this chance...

Enjoy your Sunday and hug your horses.

Joe


(At least the owner ordered him euthanized instead of being sent to auction or the meat man...)

[Pronzini]

Isn't the better question: why do some horse owners not want to do the right thing?

Because that mindset is absolutely not limited to the racetrack.

[Arcadien]

Well now I'm teared up, sounded like a nice relationship between groom & horse. However,

I'm glad you added the last note about the owner at least taking the responsibility of euthanasia, instead of sucking the last few hundred bucks out of that horse at a meat auction. Given your description of this situation, this owner might not really be deserving of criticism. I don't think very badly of an owner like that, when compared to owners who say "get rid of it" or "send it to auction" or even just sell it own without caring enough to keep tabs.

Of course euthanasia is sad, but I don't think it is the worst end for a horse in this world. If in fact the gelding had bad ankles, it may have a questionable future off the track - there are far less homes willing to feed & care for a lame pasture ornament than their are for horses who can be retrained to jump or do dressage. If the owner knew that, they may have decided the better chance for this guy was a needle while he was still well fed and in the quality care of his beloved groom.

I did two rescues last year - both times they were OTTBs who had been "rescued" off the track, stuck in a field. Afterall the grade horses did fine in the field. When it became evident the TBs were losing weight, these people decided that all TBs were supposed to look skinny. Then these people discovered they didn't have the skills to retrain or ride their TBs. I responded to ads that were the horses last shot before New Holland. They were at a body condition score of 1.5 (starving). These people still insisted they had "rescued" these horses off the track. (sigh) If I or someone like me had not responded to that ad, I feel these two would have been better off getting a needle on the track. (They both recovered and were rehabbed into sport horses).

Anyway, bless you for stepping in and rescuing the tall bay gelding. However, now that you've thwarted the owners solution (who is probably sleeping soundly no doubt thinking at least their grand old campaigner won't suffer a bad home or slaughter) I hope you are able & willing to keep him or keep tabs on him - especially if he doesn't appear to come sound. Can you keep him in good health for his life on your farm? If you can't, can you place him and then keep tabs on him to be sure he doesn't slip into bad hands? If not, I'm sorry to say, you may be leading him to a worse end than this owner had offered him...

Please don't be offended, and you may be aware of all this and have a good plan for him, but just wanted to point it out in case someone else doesn't realize their is more to rescuing a TB than sneaking them off the track and putting them in a field...

Sending good luck wishes to all retired TB's everywhere,

Arcadien

[summerhorse]

He's at a race horse rescue where he can stay the rest of his life if need be. At least he has the chance to be a pet for someone. I didn't rescue him, I live on the other side of the country. Although I would if I could.

Why do so many owners (in all disciplines but racing is the one that ruins more horse's legs faster than others) just say kill him instead of even giving him a chance at a rescue? PERISH the thought they actually pay board on him somewhere. the owners and trainers are after all the ones that run these horses into the ground so they end up crippled instead of giving them time off to heal or just stopping on them.

I know some do but they seem to be a big minority.

[jetandmegs4]

That definately made me sad (especially the part about him not wanting the mint because it wasn't from his groom). It really makes me happy to see how much these grooms care for their horses, above and beyond what is required of them. Thoroughbreds are amazing horses, and deserve a second chance after the track. I have two OTTB that i adore.

[Laurierace]

I know this isn't the response you wanted, but I agree that euthanasia is not such a bad thing. I am glad he had somewhere else to go, but if he hadn't I would much prefer the needle to the bolt. To me the bolt is the ultimate in betrayal. I do agree that a horse that earns that kind of money should have paid to ensure his future care.
Until they are all safe, we have to keep up the fight.

[summerhorse]

I know this isn't the response you wanted, but I agree that euthanasia is not such a bad thing. I am glad he had somewhere else to go, but if he hadn't I would much prefer the needle to the bolt. To me the bolt is the ultimate in betrayal. I do agree that a horse that earns that kind of money should have paid to ensure his future care.
Until they are all safe, we have to keep up the fight.

I did say that in my post. Euthanasia is far better than shipping the horse to the killer sales or having him picked up by the meat man himself. But too many owners like this one make no effort to find the horse a home. They just say kill him.

[Laurierace]

I did say that in my post. Euthanasia is far better than shipping the horse to the killer sales or having him picked up by the meat man himself. But too many owners like this one make no effort to find the horse a home. They just say kill him.

I know that is what you said, and I agree with you. They should have made an effort to find him a home, or kept him themselves. I think they deserve some slack for not trying to get the last $400 out of his dead body though. Those are the people who make me want to perform some (inhumane) euthanasia.

[YoungFilly]

Good for the people who saved him.

I think its hard to place a racehorse in the right home, and I can see how an owner might not want that horse to go through any pain in its life. Its hard to say without knowing the parties, or the extent of the damage to the horses legs.

I think people who can help horses are wonderful.

[summerhorse]

I know that is what you said, and I agree with you. They should have made an effort to find him a home, or kept him themselves. I think they deserve some slack for not trying to get the last $400 out of his dead body though. Those are the people who make me want to perform some (inhumane) euthanasia.


Yeah with a bolt gun. But only after some shipping time...

[county]

To me killing an animal just to have it dead because you no longer want it is far more disgusting then slaughter. Slaughter serves a purpose killing just to kill doesn't IMO. Yes there are cases of poor transport and there are cases of poor kill floor practices and both need improvements. But i've been around both for years and there the exception not the rule. I hope the owner of this case has a tough time sleeping knowing he killed the horse just to have it dead.

[abrant]

I have to agree that sometimes it's better to know than not know.

I've heard too many stories of ex-racehorses given away (even to rescues!) and have them end up in very bad places.

Just recently someone was trying to give me two thoroughbred geldings. Their racetrack connections had given them to some friends... friends who had little horse experience and were terrified of them.

Remember the horse owned by Maggie Moss that a rescue found in the kill pen - after she had given him to a rescue (!!!)

I try to add value to ours and put them in situations where they will get more value (ie - sell them to h/j people as resale projects)... BUT some horses don't have value. I have a gelding with a big ankle - he has no value. The only thing that can be done to make sure he is not abused or neglected or slaughtered is to make sure he never leaves this farm (I still half-heartedly look for the life-long pasture puff position at someone else's farm, but that is unlikely to happen). We have the luxury of doing this, but most people don't.

As far as "trying to find him a new home"... check on the Horse Care forum about a person stressing about arthritis in a prospective trail horse. It's not as easy as it sounds to find a horse with issues a home!!! Heck, I have a hard time placing SOUND horses just because they're under 16h!

Rescues simply cannot take every single horse with dirty x-rays. They are not an end-all-be-all solution to the unwanted horse problem.

And, btw, a winner of $600k doesn't leave you laughing all the way to the bank. Day rates, shoeing, vet, hauling, jocks fees, etc. etc. take about $35k (or more) of that a year. Then the rest usually goes to pay the keep of the other horses in the barn who aren't winning. Trust me... NO ONE is making money in horse racing, lol (except, as far as I can tell, the jockeys, but they're always 1 start away from breaking themselves and losing their livelihood).

~Adrienne

[tradewind]

I have to pipe in here..As some of you know, I am involved with a TB rehab and rehoming organization, I also ran a dog rescue for years before the people ditching the dogs made me so sick I could not take it anymore..It is not a racing problem, it is a societal problem..Dogs, horses, cats, marriages, children, everything is disposable. And while I do feel an effort could have been made to find this horse a home, at least this owner did not send his horse off to the kill pens, which in my opinion is the worst. I am glad the horse has a chance for a lifetime home. But it is not just racehorses, my pony was a 22 yr old lifetime lesson pony that was tossed aside when she could no longer pack kids around all day everyday. Its used up show horses, its used up backyard horses, its overbred horses of various breeds, its used up workhorses, carriage horses etc. Until society as a whole wants to look at itself and reset its priorities from the latest, greatest, newest etc people involved in the rescue of animals, children and displaced people are going to face a neverending parade of this kind of thing. To place the majority of blame on the racing industry is just unfair in my book..thanks for letting me vent

[Flameborne]

It is a sad but beautiful story.

As a side note... does anyone have an email contact for Maggie Moss?

I believe we have a horse that was formerly hers. I'd like to give her an update.

[Arcadien]

To me killing an animal just to have it dead because you no longer want it is far more disgusting then slaughter. Slaughter serves a purpose killing just to kill doesn't IMO. Yes there are cases of poor transport and there are cases of poor kill floor practices and both need improvements. But i've been around both for years and there the exception not the rule. I hope the owner of this case has a tough time sleeping knowing he killed the horse just to have it dead.

Sigh, shouldn't get into this, but hey I'm here so...

The quote above shows clearly that you didn't read (or understand, haha) my full response.

Okay, no surprise, been around enough to know that's your modus operandi (take what supports yer cause, pretend the rest wasn't said, etc., etc.,...)

But just in case someone new and capable of logical discussion is reading this thread, have to point out AGAIN (sigh),

The evidence presented here does not testify that the owner ordered the horse made dead "because they no longer wanted it". Repeating my (previously posted above) other reasons an owner might want to do this, they may have realized the horse could end up in a neglectful home or on the road to slaughter.

K, yer turn (also know you won't leave any rebuttal alone until it is "done to death" TIC, so in advance, if I can't help feed the inevitable verbal parry to come, it is likely because I have to get up at 4:30 to help exercise some of those "cruelly mistreated" racehorses at Monmouth park (such an evil person am I! I actually like to ride them, shudder!) (TIC)

Arcadien

[county]

Your right there can be reasons and I never said there couldn't. People are expressing their opinion I'm doing the same.

[summerhorse]

The horse was not able to race anymore so (good point) the owner ordered him euthanized rather than sent to auction or kill pen but (bad point) without making even an effort to see if someone would give the horse a good home. And as we see there was someone relatively close by who would. A simple phone call by the owner to the trainer or track vet asking if there was such a person could have saved all the emotional upset and underground tactics.

[Slewdledo]

I have learned to question everything posted on the TBFriends website.

[Arcadien]

Your right there can be reasons and I never said there couldn't. People are expressing their opinion I'm doing the same.

Upon reflection in daylight I feel I overreacted in my response to your post - I'm sorry. Of course you're allowed to express your opinion. Thanks for not overracting to my overeaction.

Arcadien

[county]

Hey no problem, life happens.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

I have learned to question everything posted on the TBFriends website.

Many people have. Though I am glad he saves so many horses, often times the stories don't match up.

Last week they the website said they had just bought from the slaughter guy at the track a gelding by Horse Chestnut who sold as a yearling for $500k. They say his name is Horse of Course but both myself and friend involved with racing in SoCal did some research and Horse of Course was sired by Wertaloona.

Looking at the sales records for Horse Chestnut his average sale price for male yearlings is $43,920. I did ask Claiborne to validate this story as Horse Chestnut stands at stud there....they are researching and getting back to me since there isn't any horse named that in his progeny reports.

There is a well-known gelding who raced as well that was promised to somebody I know by his owner that popped up on his site a while back as one he "saved from the killer buyer" and found a home for. But the owners of that horse doted on him and wanted a forever home for him. I know they wouldn't have sent him to slaughter. Somebody else is checking into that one as they are good friends with that horses trainer.

Not all trainers/owners are bad. I was given a multiple stakes placed horse that was still running and he was 10. The footing was horrible sloppy at the track with many breakdowns and his owner/trainer felt he'd earned his retirement and didn't want to risk him breaking down so they talked to another trainer at the track I'm good friends with and she called me so I could pick him up.

[summerhorse]

Many people have. Though I am glad he saves so many horses, often times the stories don't match up.

Last week they the website said they had just bought from the slaughter guy at the track a gelding by Horse Chestnut who sold as a yearling for $500k. They say his name is Horse of Course but both myself and friend involved with racing in SoCal did some research and Horse of Course was sired by Wertaloona.

Looking at the sales records for Horse Chestnut his average sale price for male yearlings is $43,920. I did ask Claiborne to validate this story as Horse Chestnut stands at stud there....they are researching and getting back to me since there isn't any horse named that in his progeny reports.

There is a well-known gelding who raced as well that was promised to somebody I know by his owner that popped up on his site a while back as one he "saved from the killer buyer" and found a home for. But the owners of that horse doted on him and wanted a forever home for him. I know they wouldn't have sent him to slaughter. Somebody else is checking into that one as they are good friends with that horses trainer.

Not all trainers/owners are bad. I was given a multiple stakes placed horse that was still running and he was 10. The footing was horrible sloppy at the track with many breakdowns and his owner/trainer felt he'd earned his retirement and didn't want to risk him breaking down so they talked to another trainer at the track I'm good friends with and she called me so I could pick him up.


I read his site every day but can't remember Horse Chestnut mentioned. The horse's reg. name may not be Horse Of Course, many times he isn't told their name or forgets it and they just rename them.

[Slewdledo]

Spanish Chestnut is the only $500,000 yearling I can find by Horse Chestnut. Methinks he is NOT the gelding rescued by TB Friends.

[summerhorse]

I read his site every day but can't remember Horse Chestnut mentioned. The horse's reg. name may not be Horse Of Course, many times he isn't told their name or forgets it and they just rename them.


The person who gave him the info. might have messed it up some (not on purpose) or Joe might have messed it up some. None of Horse Chestnuts foals have sold for $500,000 but a couple sold in the $200,000 range. And there is one that has made almost $500,000. I don't take every figure there as gospel because I don't think actual numbers (except horses in, horses out) or names are all that important to Joe!

Anyway Joe has a lot of nice horses looking for homes. i wish I lived near by. But probably best for my finances I don't!

[Pronzini]

The person who gave him the info. might have messed it up some (not on purpose) or Joe might have messed it up some. None of Horse Chestnuts foals have sold for $500,000 but a couple sold in the $200,000 range. And there is one that has made almost $500,000. I don't take every figure there as gospel because I don't think actual numbers (except horses in, horses out) or names are all that important to Joe!



But it's his website and he's referencing real people when he tells these stories. My thought is that if he can't get this stuff right, what else isn't he getting right?

[summerhorse]

I don't think it matters to him if a horse cost $500,000 or $5, it is just something that grabs people's attention. I read an article in TB Times once when the person who was doing work for United Pegasus (I forget in what capacity) was walking through the kill pens and found a broken down TB and when he or she checked the tatoo found out the horse had sold for over $1 million as a yearling and not even 3 was broken down beyond repair.

He gets the big picture right, horses up and down the driveway.

[abrant]

He gets the big picture right, horses up and down the driveway.

If he's so right about the big picture... then why doesn't he use real examples?

~Adrienne

[fourmares]

I live just a few miles from Joe. He is not the kind of person that would intentionally lie, or even inflate the truth... however, he will repeat what someone else told him without ever considering that it might not be true because it would literally never occur to him that someone might lie to him... well, o.k. it might occur to him, but it wouldn't be his first thought. He's a very nice man, but a bit like Jerry Van Dykes character in the old T.V. show "Coach". He has already found homes for over 200 horses this year, he does site checks and will take a horse back if necessary. He has about 100 horses on the property, at least 80% will never be sound. He doesn't care and will keep those horses forever. It is what makes his world turn round.

[On the Farm]

If he's so right about the big picture... then why doesn't he use real examples?

~Adrienne

'Cause then he doesn't have to worry about being charged with libel.

[abrant]

'Cause then he doesn't have to worry about being charged with libel.

::moans::

What is libel?

1. Law. a. defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.

Hmm.... defamation, what does that mean?

the act of defaming; <b>false or unjustified</b> injury of the good reputation of another, as by slander or libel; calumny:

The lesson:

You DON'T get charged with libel for telling the truth.

You DO get charged with libel for telling lies or half-truths... even what you believe is truth but isn't.

That's why my momma taught me to be quiet, especially about other people, and especially in public (the internet does count).

~Adrienne

[FalseImpression]

Give the guy a break. He is doing so much for TBs. I do believe he repeats what he is told and I bet that most times, he is right.
If once or twice, it is not the gospel truth... so what? Do you really think the people who adopt from Joe care if the horse won tons of money? The truth is lots of owner dispose of them too easily.

[syntax_592]

::moans::
You DON'T get charged with libel for telling the truth.
~Adrienne

Actually.....you CAN get sued for telling the truth, but hopefully the other side won't prevail. Problem is, even if you win, you're still out court costs, attorney's fees, time, emotional stress, and so on.

Here's the odd thing. If you're very, very wealthy, the costs probably won't matter so you can go ahead and say what you want. If you're destitute, it also won't matter because no one can take away what you don't have.

BUT - if you fall in between those extremes, you have a lot to lose and nothing to gain, so why even go there? Keep it "generic" enough and things should be okay. Credability may be shot, but that's the trade-off.

[fourmares]

I hardly think an owner that raced a horse for a long time on a fat ankle until he finally broke the horse down really gives a rats behind about whether the horse might end up in a bad home, or in the slaughter pen. I think he just didn't want to be stuck paying any more money on a horse that wasn't going to run. This horse might not even be premenantly broken, he may be fine with some time off.

[On the Farm]

Well, I guess if everyone wants to believe this guy's story, then he is admittedly in possession of stolen property.

[summerhorse]

Well, I guess if everyone wants to believe this guy's story, then he is admittedly in possession of stolen property.


I think most of us can live with that or would you rather go get the horse and kill him? Would that be better in your world? I doubt the owner is out any money, the vet and trainer probably "forgot" to put those last expenses on the bill. They aren't stupid, just kind.


And if no names are mentioned then nobody is libeled or slandered or any such thing.

[FalseImpression]

I can't help but notice how people are always quick to point a finger at someone who is trying to do some good... the world is far from perfect, but Joe is doing something to help... that's a lot better than pointing a finger and saying the "details" are not correct...
And I am still doubtful what "kill him" meant to that owner... with a not so caring groom and trainer, it probably would have meant send him to slaughter.. as long as he was not on the payroll anymore... I believe the owner did not care what method was used.

[On the Farm]

And if no names are mentioned then nobody is libeled or slandered or any such thing.

That's the point. As long as he doesn't mention a particular person, or mention a particular horse's name which can be traced to that person, then Joe can pretty much make up any tale to pull at the old heartstrings. It's called Fundraising 101.

One thing I've always liked about racing is that it's a put up, or shut up, business. I'd simply like to challenge old Joe to put some real names behind his tale. If Joe's accusations are true, my critcism of the owner would be the harshest available, but other than old Joe having a horse with a big ankle, I have alot of doubts about the facts here.

[SmlHpy1]

Aww. . come on guys! I LOVE TBFriends. I just recently sent them a donation and I'd like to do more. Do you really doubt what he puts up there? At times I do wish he would list the names of the horses that won a lot of money and the trainers that sent them to him. I really do. I think it would be a wake up call. This gelding with the large ankles might be perfectly fine. It just pisses me off that a horse that worked that hard cannot be given the chance by his OWNER to get better and live a decent life. Yes, racing is not the only industry to contribue to slaughter. But you have admit there are probably more TBs born in this country than any other breed. And why are they bred? Because everyone wants the next Secretariat. And when that horse fails to be that they are tossed aside. I think the racing industry is the biggest contributor to the unwanted and therfore slaughtered horses. A lady at my barn is apparently a race horse trainer. She just accompanied a horse to race at KY. The horse has a bad ankle and she wanted to be there in case it broke down. Well they entered the horse in a claiming race hoping that they wouldn't have to find a "non-racing" home for it in a few months. They would have gotten less money for that horse in a non racing home than in the claiming race. Now they "think" the woman that claimed that horse is going to breed her, but they don't really know. I think they are saying that just to make themselves feel good. This horse gave the trainer and owner their first win at Keeneland. They were pumped! Now the horse has bad ankles, so let's ship it on down the road? I feel badly for the horse. It doesn't deserve that. I think Joe is doing something wonderful. I don't think he stretches the truth. I think you guys should cut him a break.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Hmmmm. The way I read this, someone stole a horse.

Also, if the horse in question was insured (many are, you know), wouldn't the owner want to collect on his insurance? And if he tries to do that, wouldn't he need a vet cert saying the horse was euthanized? And if he does have it, wouldn't the vet who SIGNED said vet cert now be liable for all kinds of problems, including losing his license?

I think it's a nice story, one of those "feel good that we cheated the bad guy" stories, but I think it is a story all the same. I will assume it is a fairy tale until proven otherwise.

[FalseImpression]

It is sad there are so many cynics around.
Fundraising 101... where do you see anything to suggest Joe is trying to raise funds. That is why he does not have Paypal and does not go the non profit route. He gratefully receives what people are willing to send him by snail mail, but he sure never asks...

[Graustark]

Yes, racing is not the only industry to contribue to slaughter. But you have admit there are probably more TBs born in this country than any other breed.

Today the Quarter Horse is the most popular breed in America based on the number of horses registered. This can be verified by a simple Google search.

[hitchinmygetalong]

It is sad there are so many cynics around.

We weren't born that way, you know. :no: I've been kicked in the teeth one time too many.

I hate to see someone zero in on "race owners" when horse abuse and "tossaways" are pervasive throughout ALL disciplines. If anything, racing is probably one of the closest policed horse disciplines out there.

[county]

TB's are #3 for foals born each year behind QH's and Paints.

[moonriverfarm]

Humane euthanasia is what KEEPS horses away from slaughterhouses in many cases. Whoever thinks the slaughter option is better than the vet and a shot needs education.
We as horse lovers need to concentrate on being part of the solution. The "problem" of meat buyers and slaughter is not going away. Therefore, we need to breed more selectively, and adopt rescues whenever that is an option. But this supply vs. demand issue holds true with dogs and cats as well as horses which is why the shelters are over capacity.
Arguing on this forum with people who are satisfied with slaughter is futile.

[fourmares]

Joe does not fundraise. He never, ever asks for money... of course people give it to him all the time, but he does not actively solicit it. I've been to his place several times, I can tell you it is not at all fancy and it is quite clear that every penny he has goes to the animals... He did this long before a friend set him up with a website.

As far as the horse being stollen... if someone throws something away and you pick it up it is not stollen. The owner told the trainer to have the horse killed... IMO he, in effect, threw it away. In the same way as if you took your car the the junkyard and told the operater to have the car smashed and he took it and gave it to some high school body shop... of course there could be an issue of insurance fraud, but that isn't related to Joe.

He has horses on the property that he will tell you their real name and show you their win pictures from the track, and then he has horses that he has promised never to say their real name... and he never will. He won't even look up their tatoo numbers... after all, he promised... Some times he uses real names, like Dr. Ramos, for instance. And the better he knows you the more he will tell you and the more horses he will show you when you visit. He has to decide to trust you. He may be simple, but he is not a fool.

[county]

Actually I think a number of anti slaughter people need education to the reality of slaughter. Theres two sides to the issue not one and a number of people from both have no idea how slaughter actually operates other then one sided videos and propaganda.

[abrant]

At times I do wish he would list the names of the horses that won a lot of money and the trainers that sent them to him. I really do. I think it would be a wake up call.

I would never, ever in a million years have ANYTHING to do with a rescue that feels the need to "shame" past owners of the horse.

That's VERY poor taste and makes me question what people's motives are. If they want to save horses - they won't "shame" people because if they do - those horses WILL be destroyed or go to slaughter. Why have your name drug through the mud by some rescue when you can ship the horse off and make a couple bucks?

That's why I think the CANTER people are angels, they send on an amazing number of horses onto new lives WITHOUT feeling the need to trash anyone. That's why what they do WORKS, people trust them! They work WITH the industry for the good of the HORSES which I think is what it should be about.

If you ever get a chance, check out one of CANTER's advertising fliers towards racehorse owners/trainers. It's brilliant work. It states why advertising with CANTER benefits everyone.

And as far as libel...

He posts pictures of those horses on his website. I know that I could easily recognize a lot of horses from a photo, even as a regular spectator at the racetrack. If that horse had been in the same barn as me, I would know it for sure and EASILY be able to attach names. If this horse was a winner of $600k, I'd bet A LOT of people could recognize him. If he gets recognized and that story gets back to his owners - they're going to be livid mad and surely won't change their ways for the future.

The lesson: There is more to life than fundraising.

~Adrienne

[summerhorse]

I would never, ever in a million years have ANYTHING to do with a rescue that feels the need to "shame" past owners of the horse.

That's VERY poor taste and makes me question what people's motives are. If they want to save horses - they won't "shame" people because if they do - those horses WILL be destroyed or go to slaughter. Why have your name drug through the mud by some rescue when you can ship the horse off and make a couple bucks?

That's why I think the CANTER people are angels, they send on an amazing number of horses onto new lives WITHOUT feeling the need to trash anyone. That's why what they do WORKS, people trust them! They work WITH the industry for the good of the HORSES which I think is what it should be about.

If you ever get a chance, check out one of CANTER's advertising fliers towards racehorse owners/trainers. It's brilliant work. It states why advertising with CANTER benefits everyone.

And as far as libel...

He posts pictures of those horses on his website. I know that I could easily recognize a lot of horses from a photo, even as a regular spectator at the racetrack. If that horse had been in the same barn as me, I would know it for sure and EASILY be able to attach names. If this horse was a winner of $600k, I'd bet A LOT of people could recognize him. If he gets recognized and that story gets back to his owners - they're going to be livid mad and surely won't change their ways for the future.

The lesson: There is more to life than fundraising.

~Adrienne


I agree that there is nothing to be gained from shaming individual owners (well unless they did something hideous to torture an animal as in illegal) because that will only end up costing the horses. It is OK to shame the INDUSTRY and galvinize it (hopefully) into pressuring people from the INSIDE to change their ways. As with any breed/group/whatever it is the membership that in the end has the only power to change undesirable behavior in its members.

But unless the horse has some distinguishing marking that is unusual I'm sorry but there are doubles for every horse out there, dozens of them if they have no or minimal markings. You might think a horse is the same one but you could easily be wrong. But not many of those "secret" horses will end up on a website anyway. The only ones he did show looked like any number of chestnut (for ex) TBs at any number of feedlots, rescues, dream horse ads currently running.

[On the Farm]

It's no more okay to shame an INDUSTRY with lies than it is to shame a person with them. Tactics such as that are simply childish in nature. I'll support the concept and work of CANTER all day, but I have no use for these other groups who wish to demonize people for their own ends.

Racing people are not these evil creatures that old Joe would want you to believe. There are some people who aren't nice, but I think those folks are far outnumbered by the good ones in the business. Instead of throwing rocks Summerhorse, why not make friends with some of these people you so readily condemn and try to learn a little about the issues that we face. One thing you'll probably learn is that finding suitable and trustworthy homes for retirees is not that easy for us. After our debacle which cost my old pal Forest Legend his life (I'm not afraid to provide a horse's name,) we will no longer place horses with private individuals. Earlier this summer, I transported a retiree from NY to a school in western Ohio because that's the only place we could find who could take the horse AND give us some confidence that he would be properly cared for.

[hitchinmygetalong]

As far as the horse being stollen... if someone throws something away and you pick it up it is not stollen. The owner told the trainer to have the horse killed... IMO he, in effect, threw it away. In the same way as if you took your car the the junkyard and told the operater to have the car smashed and he took it and gave it to some high school body shop... of course there could be an issue of insurance fraud, but that isn't related to Joe.


Incorrect. If I read the story correctly, the horse was not euthanized as per the owner's request. The owner never sold or gave away the horse. He was therefore still the owner. He still had the papers and was under the impression the horse was going to be euthanized. Instead, the trainer went against the owner's wishes and removed the horse from the property. He stole it.

I still question the legitimacy of the story. And I still think the title of the thread should include more than "race owners." Why don't those of you who think the racing industry is cold read http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=61034

[luvmytbs]

Incorrect. If I read the story correctly, the horse was not euthanized as per the owner's request. The owner never sold or gave away the horse. He was therefore still the owner. He still had the papers and was under the impression the horse was going to be euthanized. Instead, the trainer went against the owner's wishes and removed the horse from the property. He stole it.



One of the trainers I know, did exactly the same thing: Owner wanted to euthanize a horse because of physical issue that would keep horse from racing. Trainer called me, I said I would take the horse, trainer gave me the horse and told owner after the fact. Owner was thrilled and loves getting updates and pix.
How do we not know, that in Joe's case, the owner didn't end up being happy about the outcome?

[Pronzini]

One of the trainers I know, did exactly the same thing: Owner wanted to euthanize a horse because of physical issue that would keep horse from racing. Trainer called me, I said I would take the horse, trainer gave me the horse and told owner after the fact. Owner was thrilled and loves getting updates and pix.
How do we not know, that in Joe's case, the owner didn't end up being happy about the outcome?

This all allegedly had to be done in "secret". Does that sound like he's thrilled?

Of course who knows if any of it is true?

[summerhorse]

This all allegedly had to be done in "secret". Does that sound like he's thrilled?

Of course who knows if any of it is true?

How do you know it is not? Since this scenario plays out all the time across the country (and not just in TB racing or even just in horses) I feel it is more likely to be true. And it is certainly possible that the trainer later told the owner that the horse wasn't dead or the vet might have said I just couldn't kill that horse, I gave him to a friend. Presto, the owner just saved (however much it costs to euthanize a horse) and no longer has to worry about the horse.

Nobody is saying ALL RACING PEOPLE ARE BAD. But that there are too many bad people in racing (and yes in other disciplines but this is the RACING forum so here we are talking about racing). The only way these people are allowed to still be bad is because the racing industry turns the other way. So yes it is necessary to shame the industry as a WHOLE in order to exact change. That is exactly what has brought about the increase in retirement centers, groups like CANTER, trainer listings, the Ferdinand Fee, etc. etc. It was the SHAME of horses like Exceller and Ferdinand being disposed of, the SHAME of horses being run into the ground and found at New Holland by rescue groups, the SHAME of too many horses being sent to the kill pens or auctions that has changed business as usual in the racing industry. (the rest of the horse world still has some work to do...)

There is still a long way to go but things are better. But salvageable horses shouldn't have to die because their owners are tired of them. Many times people think that there just wouldn't be anyone interested in them (Ferdinand).

If I were a vet though I'd have a euthanasia/ownership release to be signed that gave me the right to rehome a salvageable horse. I wouldn't kill an (otherwise healthy) animal just because somebody doesn't want to pay its bills or thinks that maybe someday somewhere it MIGHT end up abused. Some vets have no problem with it but some vets and trainers and grooms that take care of these animals day in and day out have a big problem with it. Some people would say so get another job but do we really want the horses to be surrounded by trainers, vets and grooms that don't give a flying fig about animals???

[summerhorse]

Incorrect. If I read the story correctly, the horse was not euthanized as per the owner's request. The owner never sold or gave away the horse. He was therefore still the owner. He still had the papers and was under the impression the horse was going to be euthanized. Instead, the trainer went against the owner's wishes and removed the horse from the property. He stole it.

I still question the legitimacy of the story. And I still think the title of the thread should include more than "race owners." Why don't those of you who think the racing industry is cold read http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=61034

It is the owners who ultimately decide the fate of the horse so yes, the title should read horse owners.

And as I said above the horse industry as a whole has work to do (LOTS of it) but this isn't the horse industry as a whole forum, its the racing forum.

[Graustark]

SHAME, summerhorse, is why some people sell their horse at auction without their papers..the papers I, as a breeder, took the extra time and effort to Re-Run sticker so that someone might call me if the horse is in a dire situation. :(

I know this is a serious issue to you...I think I have seen your posts on atleast three racing websites in the last two days. You spend a lot of time sharing your feelings on the internet, I applaud you for atleast being dedicated, and wish I also had that sort of time to dedicate to good causes. But in seeing your multiple posts in multiple places, I noticed you don't like to acknowledge anything contrary to what you say, or what you believe. It's your way or the highway, and it keeps any real dialogue from occuring. And then, what's the point? I don't think you are winning people over, and shouldn't that be your goal? To see people reach out instead of cast away? because when you cast the people away, you will inadventently cast their horses away with them.

It just seems so counterproductive, and some of your statements are flatly in error. I don't understand how you can say the industry "turns the other way" when it spends significant money on retirement homes and retraining programs with funds distributed through TCA. Did you read yesterday's announcement from Finger Lakes? They will have an on-site adoption facility soon, paid for by the horsemen and the track.

I would ask that you consider cooperating...didn't your mother ever tell you about honey and vinegar, and how to catch stuff? :confused:

[FalseImpression]

I agree that you can catch more with honey than with vinegar and I think this is what Joe is trying to do... I just hate that people choose to criticize someone who tries his best at helping horses in dire situations.

Also, as in any situation, it is the rotten apple that is noticed... I appreciate the fact that the racing industry is doing a lot to help rehome their own. I guess there are still quite a few owners though that have not heard the news!!

But you are right Graustark, things are improving for the TBs... now how to "shame" the QH owners into doing the same thing? They do not have Ferdinand or Exceller? or do they?

[county]

ROTFLMAO shame the QH owners. LOL Ya thats what you should try and do you really have no intention on helping horses or a clue do you? I take in and buy more horses that are abused and neglecded then rehab them and find owners then a large number of you put together. Yet you still will attack me and others because were pro slaughter. Shame us? Ya go right ahead ant try doing that. Will show just how much you don't know.

[fourmares]

Things are improving in the racing world, and there is a long way yet to go. I think what really disturbs those of us in the non-racing horse world is the horses that are put down, or sent to slaughter because they are to slow. Those horses are useful elsewhere. They deserve better. The horses with the broken knees and ankles and sesmoids, well... I don't know. I know some of them do get better, but many of them don't. Joe rescues tons of them and I disagree with him on that matter. I think his money would go farther and he could save more horses if he stuck to the sound ones, and maybe the bowed tendons and let the broken ones go... but it's his money and his choice.

Slaughter will not end. There needs to be a way to dispose of horses that are not wanted. It sucks, but we need to face it. If we end slaughter in America those horses will be sent to Mexico where there are less restrictions on how they are treated. I think the best we can do is push for tougher laws to protect horses in transit and at the pens and the plants.

[juliab]

I think it would help a lot if some of the myths that surround OTTBs were disproved. So many people looking for a sporthorse won't even consider an OTTB because "they are crazy", "they are only bred for speed", "you need a WB to win", etc. What we need are more horses like Poggio II winning in major competitions and proudly announcing their racing background. And, in all the disciplines, not just eventing. It is indeed a shame, when sound, athletic TBs end up slaughtered.

[showmom07]

And I still think the title of the thread should include more than "race owners." Why don't those of you who think the racing industry is cold read http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=61034

Also check out this thread on the Eventing forum.
Apparently a lady took this horse to an Event and had a great
dressage test, but when the horse wouldn't jump around and
got eliminated, she dumped it at New Holland:

Unbelievable! From FHI to slaughter rescue!!
(don't know how to get the url)

Fortunately, he was rescued and did great at his first dressage
show with his new owner.

[FalseImpression]

Also check out this thread on the Eventing forum.
Apparently a lady took this horse to an Event and had a great
dressage test, but when the horse wouldn't jump around and
got eliminated, she dumped it at New Holland:

Unbelievable! From FHI to slaughter rescue!!
(don't know how to get the url)

Fortunately, he was rescued and did great at his first dressage
show with his new owner.

Some pictures were availabe regarding this horse at his last show... and it was very apparent it was rider error as the owner was yanking his mouth like crazy... "He" was rescued, but sadly this owner has a new horse...

[showmom07]

I think it would help a lot if some of the myths that surround OTTBs were disproved. So many people looking for a sporthorse won't even consider an OTTB because "they are crazy", "they are only bred for speed", "you need a WB to win", etc. What we need are more horses like Poggio II winning in major competitions and proudly announcing their racing background. And, in all the disciplines, not just eventing. It is indeed a shame, when sound, athletic TBs end up slaughtered.

While not true in every case (there are some laid back TBs) most TBs are just too hot, especially straight off the track, for folks who just want a backyard horse. Even many people who ride H/J, Eventing, Dressage, etc. just aren't up to the task of retraining an OTTB. If they haven't learned to ride a horse that's been trained to go faster when you pull back on the reins, it's no wonder these folks consider them "crazy." This is why they often do need to be filtered by legitimate rescue people who know what they're getting, how to let them wind down, and how to retrain them.

[showmom07]

A lady at my barn is apparently a race horse trainer. She just accompanied a horse to race at KY. The horse has a bad ankle and she wanted to be there in case it broke down. Well they entered the horse in a claiming race hoping that they wouldn't have to find a "non-racing" home for it in a few months. They would have gotten less money for that horse in a non racing home than in the claiming race. Now they "think" the woman that claimed that horse is going to breed her, but they don't really know. I think they are saying that just to make themselves feel good.


Now this is REALLY cynical. If she was a nice mare who won some races, esp. at Keeneland, why would you think someone would not claim her to breed her. We put a claim in on a nice mare and when another trainer who had a claim in found out it was us, he withdrew his claim because he knew we were breeders and would treat her right. She now has two fabulous fillies by TB stallions on the leading sire list. Can't wait to watch them run!

[juliab]

While not true in every case (there are some laid back TBs) most TBs are just too hot, especially straight off the track, for folks who just want a backyard horse. Even many people who ride H/J, Eventing, Dressage, etc. just aren't up to the task of retraining an OTTB. If they haven't learned to ride a horse that's been trained to go faster when you pull back on the reins, it's no wonder these folks consider them "crazy." This is why they often do need to be filtered by legitimate rescue people who know what they're getting, how to let them wind down, and how to retrain them.

I think there are just as many "hot" and crazy QHs, paints and other breeds as there are TBs. I've got 5 of them and they are all fine as backyard horses. It just takes a little bit of patience and understanding. The people who ride and compete in the sporthorse disciplines usually have a trainer to help them with their expensive WB. If the trainers would be more willing to work with an OTTB and understand how to retrain them, you'd find that instead of "hot and crazy" they'd be saying "smart and sensitive". You do need to learn how to not pull on their mouths and ride with calm hands, but that is something that a trainer who has any ability at all should be able to teach a student.

[showmom07]

I think there are just as many "hot" and crazy QHs, paints and other breeds as there are TBs. I've got 5 of them and they are all fine as backyard horses. It just takes a little bit of patience and understanding. The people who ride and compete in the sporthorse disciplines usually have a trainer to help them with their expensive WB. If the trainers would be more willing to work with an OTTB and understand how to retrain them, you'd find that instead of "hot and crazy" they'd be saying "smart and sensitive". You do need to learn how to not pull on their mouths and ride with calm hands, but that is something that a trainer who has any ability at all should be able to teach a student.

There are hot QHs and paints, etc. but I don't think just as many as TBs. A lot of QHs and paints are actually bred to be calm, not to run. It's true a lot of the running ones are hot, but they usually have a lot of TB blood.

Most of the folks who can afford the WB and the trainer want a made horse and have no interest in rescuing one. And you might be surprised at the number of people who call themselves "trainer" and have no idea how to ride a hot horse. I've seen quite a few donations to local equestrian colleges of horses the owners were unable to even begin to ride. And even there it takes a special student to want to tackle them (my daughter was one).

You are right about the smart and sensitive IF you know how to act around them and ride them. Daughter has now taken 3 OTTBs in the ring: one hunter, two jumpers with a great deal of success. But even our local "A" level pony clubber could not ride them.

[17handtb]

I always find it shocking (and very sad) that so many people automatically assume every TB at the track is "hot," "nuts," "difficult," etc. Sure, there are some hot OTTBs, but there are hot horses in every breed, as juliab pointed out (including some pretty feisty ponies 1/4 a TB's size! :D )

Overall, though, I have to say that most of the TBs I've ever seen at the track...and I see them every week with CANTER...are amazingly well-mannered, sensible, and kind. There is a gorgeous allowance horse at Suffolk named O'Malley (not for sale, alas!) who I've seen more than once being carefully soaped, washed, and dried by his owner's very young son (under supervision, of course). That horse stands like a statue and doesn't do a thing wrong with that child around. And he's more the rule than the exception: so many of these TBs will come up to you, on race day, and not just let you handle their feet, look in their mouths, and jog them; they'll come up and want to love on you, too.

OTTBs have awesome ground manners, as a rule, and while they are not for true beginners who don't have access to professional training, they are incredibly courageous, willing, and affectionate animals. You might be able to tell I think pretty highly of them :) but I promise it's not my prejudice talking. I really think these horses can do it all and deserve the chance to prove the stereotype wildly incorrect.:yes:

I'd take the cheapest OTTB over a zillion-dollar "made" horse of ANY breed, any day of the week.

[juliab]

I always find it shocking (and very sad) that so many people automatically assume every TB at the track is "hot," "nuts," "difficult," etc. Sure, there are some hot OTTBs, but there are hot horses in every breed, as juliab pointed out (including some pretty feisty ponies 1/4 a TB's size! :D )

Overall, though, I have to say that most of the TBs I've ever seen at the track...and I see them every week with CANTER...are amazingly well-mannered, sensible, and kind. There is a gorgeous allowance horse at Suffolk named O'Malley (not for sale, alas!) who I've seen more than once being carefully soaped, washed, and dried by his owner's very young son (under supervision, of course). That horse stands like a statue and doesn't do a thing wrong with that child around. And he's more the rule than the exception: so many of these TBs will come up to you, on race day, and not just let you handle their feet, look in their mouths, and jog them; they'll come up and want to love on you, too.

OTTBs have awesome ground manners, as a rule, and while they are not for true beginners who don't have access to professional training, they are incredibly courageous, willing, and affectionate animals. You might be able to tell I think pretty highly of them :) but I promise it's not my prejudice talking. I really think these horses can do it all and deserve the chance to prove the stereotype wildly incorrect.:yes:

I'd take the cheapest OTTB over a zillion-dollar "made" horse of ANY breed, any day of the week.

Me too :) I am an older, out of shape "re-rider" and my dreamhorse is a little, 15.2 hh, OTTB mare. I am so lucky in my trainer (Gillian Clissold) who appreciates her intelligence, sensitivity and great attitude. We had to go through the let down phase where the mare was anxious and stressed, but now we are having a wonderful time together and learning so much. She is green and so am I, but her incredible "can do" attitude and the way she learns so quickly (much more quickly than me, a lot of the time) makes it all work. My mare is not unique - there are many OTTBs just like her out there and people looking for that perfect "made" horse should reconsider.

I honestly think that you don't find the intelligence, work ethic and willingness to please in any other breed. It is bred into the TB, so they are not "just bred for speed". The speed is a consequence of their other great characteristics.

So, people who are quick to condemn racing would do better to look at an OTTB for their next sporthorse, rather than to criticize a great industry and sport. If there were more of a demand for OTTBs as sporthorses, their value would increase and far fewer would come to a bad end at the end of their racing careers.

[showmom07]

OTTBs have awesome ground manners, as a rule, and while they are not for true beginners who don't have access to professional training, they are incredibly courageous, willing, and affectionate animals... these horses can do it all and deserve the chance to prove the stereotype wildly incorrect.

...you don't find the intelligence, work ethic and willingness to please in any other breed. It is bred into the TB, so they are not "just bred for speed". The speed is a consequence of their other great characteristics.

...her incredible "can do" attitude and the way she learns so quickly ...there are many OTTBs just like her out there and people looking for that perfect "made" horse should reconsider.

So, people who are quick to condemn racing would do better to look at an OTTB for their next sporthorse, rather than to criticize a great industry and sport. If there were more of a demand for OTTBs as sporthorses, their value would increase and far fewer would come to a bad end at the end of their racing careers.


Agree with all of the above. They truely are amazing horses.

[luvmytbs]

I took a racehorse trainer on several trailrides this summer. He was absolutely amazed at how well my OTTB's did. He is now planning on turning one of his charges into his own trailhorse once she is done racing.

[summerhorse]

We went to see Forestry (and others) at Taylor Made in July. He was an absolute doll. He begged to be petted and scratched and made funny faces. He chewed on the fence but not on us. The manager said his 7 year old daughter could go out and groom him in the field and he wouldn't move. LOL he said his son could go out and Forestry will run away. I think he just likes the ladies. His son on the other hand Forest Danger was quite happy to remove a finger or other appendages. He didn't attack or anything but he figures anything in his space is... HIS. Northern Afleet came up to say hi and wasn't too interested and wandered away. Unbridled's Song was nippy but still let you pet him.

I think the problem with OTTB is too many people who don't know how to train ANY horse much less a hot blood get them and are more or less on their own. Anyone who hasn't worked with TBs or Arabs (esp. race trained) should probably send first the horse and then both themselves and the horse to a good trainer. And do LOTS of ground work. Basically start them from the ground up because there are large gaps in their education re: being a pleasure horse or show horse. You don't just get one, throw a saddle on it and take it trail riding (well some you could I suppose but I wouldn't advise it!)

[fourmares]

OTTB and TBs in general are less popular in the hunter/jumper world because many people currently showing are crappy riders, and don't take the time to learn to ride. WBs are more phlagmatic than TBs and can deal with rider mistakes better than a lot of TBs. Many of the judges, however, love a good TB.

I agree with many that have posted here. The OTTB area heck of a deal. They already trailer, they have seen crowds, ridden in a group, bathe, clip and tie, they generally don't spook at tractors and other equipment. All of which is a huge plus over a horse that has never been off the farm and a nice trade off for the fact that they need some retraining.

[summerhorse]

OTTB and TBs in general are less popular in the hunter/jumper world because many people currently showing are crappy riders, and don't take the time to learn to ride. WBs are more phlagmatic than TBs and can deal with rider mistakes better than a lot of TBs. Many of the judges, however, love a good TB.

I agree with many that have posted here. The OTTB area heck of a deal. They already trailer, they have seen crowds, ridden in a group, bathe, clip and tie, they generally don't spook at tractors and other equipment. All of which is a huge plus over a horse that has never been off the farm and a nice trade off for the fact that they need some retraining.


That's for sure. So many people want machines in the showring not a horse that challenges their riding (because they will lose!). But proper trainging can turn almost (almost) any horse into a "packer" and I've known some truly nutty WBs and QHs and whathaveyou.

[tradewind]

I remember the good old days when a TB was considered THE horse for showing, eventing etc.. I still think they should be..They are brave, loyal, affectionate, and very trainable assuming you have some knowledge and are willing to let them undwind from track life..My recently OTTB who is only 3 (evidently not much of a racehorse) was helping me weed the gardens the other day, and is as kind and sensible and laid back as any horse you could hope for..He needs some reschooling obviously, but is very forgiving of my reriding status..more people should look at horses on the canter sites and the various rescue sites, they would be very pleasantly surprised.

[Sabovee]

I have two OTTB's and I love them! I quit my job working with Friesians and other 'expensive' warmbloods so I could spend more time with my two 'throw away' horses.

My 11 year old is a GEM - he's doing 3rd level (I've only had him since January, he was doing training level then) and is by FAR the easiest horse I've shown - doesn't bat an eye at anything! After spending several years showing green horses it's a pleasant change.....

He's sensitive and has his moments - but I love that he's so sensitive!! Both of mine are as quick as whips to learn things. I recently heard from someone who was on the track when my other one was that he was "Super hot" and "crazy". I've seen NO evidence of that! He's a doll.


I agree that most people can't deal with them simply because they aren't compitent. Their reschooling needs to be done by someone who understands them and where they've come from.


On the 'stealing a horse' vein... I used to be a Vet Tech and if an animal came in to be euthanized we were not allowed to take said animal home/rehome it etc, without written consent from the owner. If an owner requests that an animal be euthanized it probably would be considered stealing by the authorities - without transfer of ownership/bill of sale, it could be considered illegal - I'd personally love to hear from a legal expert on this, as it's an interesting grey area......

[chism]

While not true in every case (there are some laid back TBs) most TBs are just too hot, especially straight off the track, for folks who just want a backyard horse. Even many people who ride H/J, Eventing, Dressage, etc. just aren't up to the task of retraining an OTTB. If they haven't learned to ride a horse that's been trained to go faster when you pull back on the reins, it's no wonder these folks consider them "crazy." This is why they often do need to be filtered by legitimate rescue people who know what they're getting, how to let them wind down, and how to retrain them.


In my experience this is just not true. Maybe for some...but not for all or most. I have 3 off track TB's, 2 obtained right off the track, the 3rd from a rescue 2 months off the track. Not a single one of them has been hot, difficult or a professional's horse. One of them became my 12 year old's first horse, another...her move-up horse at the age of 16 (and I'm saving the first for my younger 2 girls), and the 3rd is mine. I'm a novice rider, rode a little as a teen & have been re-riding about 5 years. I'm not a trainer, I'm not excessively brave or fearless and I'm far from perfect. I adopted my 5 yr old gelding from CANTER (which is a FANTASTIC organization BTW!!). This horse has been an angel for me. He's never bucked, bolted or done anything dangerous ever. All of them are great loaders, great for vet & farrier & not at all spooky. They are more trustworthy and have better minds than a lot of the QH's & Warmbloods I know. We have occasionally had our trainer help us, but 99% of the re-training has been done by my daughter & I. Not everyone can do the job but far more people could (and would) if this propaganda wasn't so prevalent. They are FABULOUS horses, they just need a rider with a clue....that's all.

[CeeDreams]

On Saturday at Del Mar one of our horses won her race in convincing fashion wire to wire. It was wonderful to watch her knowing how special she is to me. I went to the morning workouts that day to see her and scratch all those sweet spots that make her extend her neck and make her lips quiver. She is unbelieveably sweet and kind to the point of neighing for me when she sees me.

Unfortunately she injured herself in the race. She injured her tendon and didn't make it to the winners circle for her picture. She was put in the van and taken to our barn. She is officially retired at the age of 3.

As owners we believe in doing the right thing for our horses. Today she left for the farm to heal. In two days she has come a long way. We will give her as much time as it takes to recover and then find her a good home. It just makes me sad to know how many other owners would have put her on the "other" van.

Before she left we brought her winning roses to her and took the winning photo at her stall. She thought the roses were food and had a jolly good time trying to eat them. That's my girl!!

[summerhorse]

Man talk about highs and lows at once. Congrats on her win and I hope she heals up fast.

[fourmares]

CeeDreams - You are the kind of person that ought to own race horses (or just horses in general.) I hope your filly heals up quickly and you find her a great new home. I've known some wonderful hunters that came off the track with ugly bows and went on to brilliant careers in the show ring.

[Fortunate]

Hi I'm new to the forum and am glad I found a place to keep up with racing industry, since I have moved out of lexington a couple of months ago. This topic really interested me because I have been on both sides of the coin, I have a OTTB who is a successful jumper but i have also worked for a major thoroughbred operation in ky.

My thoughts on this (for whatever they are worth!) is the problem lies not with the owners but with the breeders. There are far too many irresponsible breeders out there. As sad as it it, an owner buys a race horse not as a pet or a live long companion but as an investment and his obligation to that horse ends there. He (or she) agrees to provide care for the horse as long as the horse has the potential to bring in money (I know its harsh), but at the end of the day there are bills to pay, mortgages to be paid, kids to feed, etc etc. On top of it all there is the tricky aspect of insurance. It could very well be the owner of the horse from the original story, made an insurance claim on the horse for loss of use. If that was the case, the horse would have to be euthanized and not sold to slaughter for the claim to be paid. It could be a major fraud issue if the claim was paid on that horse and he is still alive. I am not saying I agree or disagree with the way racing industry works but just a comment. Overall, I think more responsible breeding (ie. do not breed a mare that made no money with a nothing pedigree in hopes that you might get a one in a million).