Ultimatedressage.com - can you get in???

[Jmc]

Holly is back with porcupine quills! Still missing the basenji. Keep on a jinglin. We are headed for the woods.

Basenjingling!

[bjrudq]

training on udbb. the problem arises when people get RUDE about it-that's what gets them banned.

lately we have been fortunate to hear from RATIONAL pro-rollkur people who can discuss training without being insulting. although i disagree with them, it is a breath of fresh air. ("you all just hate anky" is not a rational argument. careful explanation of why it works(in the opinion of the poster) is.)

but honestly, the topic has been done to death on both boards and i doubt if anyone has changed his or her opinion!

as far as comparing the two boards-i think it is rude for anyone to come here from udbb to be critical of coth. it is their board and the mods are being tolerant, why the insults. udbb and coth are just like any other boards in that there will be posters and posts you don't like from time to time; but the majority of what is posted is useful and/or fun. usually if you have a problem or a question on either board-there is someone out there who has the answer. or at least can help you point yourself in the right direction.

i must say that since udbb has been down i have gotten quite a lot done around here! but i miss you guys! and the nyt is full of juicy discussion topics today...

[sabryant]

this is just pure BS.

why dont you become a member and find out what the deal is once the board is back up and running???

people on UBDD get kicked out for being rude and for posting nasty personal commetns about other posters, or by repeatedly trying to create new user names once they have been kicked out.

there is a *reason* why so many of us love UDBB - and it isnt becuase we cant express our opinion


To JMC too

I CAN believe it because I got kicked out too. For advertising, which I didn't realize I couldn't do. Is that grounds for kicking someone out? Why not just tell me about it and give me a chance. I tried to call and email Mark for a month afterwards to pay for advertising, but guess I am resigned to the corner like a bad little girl for life. It's ok with me. Too many of these boards make me dizzy and I like the Chronobb an awful lot!!!

[mbm]

as far as comparing the two boards-i think it is rude for anyone to come here from udbb to be critical of coth. it is their board and the mods are being tolerant, why the insults.

i just want to clear this up..... i am not critical of the board COTH. there are a few posters here who make posting a challenge - and it is them i was tlaking about.... and this was all in response to a question asked by a COTH member.

:)

[Jmc]

To JMC too

I CAN believe it because I got kicked out too. For advertising, which I didn't realize I couldn't do. Is that grounds for kicking someone out? Why not just tell me about it and give me a chance. I tried to call and email Mark for a month afterwards to pay for advertising, but guess I am resigned to the corner like a bad little girl for life. It's ok with me. Too many of these boards make me dizzy and I like the Chronobb an awful lot!!!

Hmmmm...like I said, I wouldn't try to speak for Mark. Sorry that happened to you. :confused:

[coalforge]

Not for being nasty or posting an opposing viewpoint on training, but because I posted an opposing viewpoint on religion. Granted this was soon after 9/11, but there you are.

[hototrot]

Oh Zinnia one down one to go!!!! That's excellent news! I'm sure the basenji won't be long now with her friend at home! Still jingling!

[sabryant]

Holly is back with porcupine quills! Still missing the basenji. Keep on a jinglin. We are headed for the woods.

Praying for you a safe return of your pets!

Jmc-thanks!

[Sabine]

Old Dead Guy?


:) :) very funny- try Old Dressage Gods...:)...the ones that knew everything
and had their horses on the bit to boot...:)

[hototrot]

Poll high this, poll not high that, classical this, classical that. That is a strait jacket way of thinking!!

Absolutely. So many tools in the bo!. Learning about them, and more importantly learning about when they may or may not be appropriate is what it is about. I've been taught by an Anke student and by one of Kottas's proteges and I've learned from them both. And interestingly neither approach was strictly correct for my horse and me. But I hope never to not learn or to condemn without understanding.

[sabryant]

Absolutely. So many tools in the bo!. Learning about them, and more importantly learning about when they may or may not be appropriate is what it is about. I've been taught by an Anke student and by one of Kottas's proteges and I've learned from them both. And interestingly neither approach was strictly correct for my horse and me. But I hope never to not learn or to condemn without understanding.

Great post hototrot! I agree! I have a very similar background in training from both sides and other sides too. It does free you up a lot to have many different tools to work with. That is why it is so frustrating to try to explain one side or the other when others are soooooo stuck on one side only. Thanks for your post!!!

[mbm]

i am not sure where the idea come that following the traditional, classical ODG path is closeminded.

actually you have to be pretty think skinned and open minded to follow that path becuase you *will* be ridiculed and beaten over the head with the latest gadget or toprider.

i guess for my money, i will listen/read/follow those that i *know* trained many many many horses and who spent their *entire* life doing it.

i find it somewhat amazing that folks that dont have this type/length of expereince think that they know better than the OGS! that to me is the height of .... idont know what....

and for me it is an immediate turn off when someone is so closed minded to slam the ODGs or the traditional way of training.

i am lucky enough to work with a classical trainer (trained w/theodorescu) .... and i LOVE it. every single thing makes sense. the nature of the horse (even th e modern "super" horse in our stable) is always taken into consideration. there is no crank and spank and no timelines. we do the work that needs doing for as long as it needs being done.

and this trainers FEI horse are awesome. really really a joy to watch.

i might entertain the thought that someone knows more and better that the ODG *if* they had a lifetime of correct work behind them - but at that point wouldnt they too be an ODG?

(and sabine - i think ODG stands for Old Dressage Gods too! :))

[Tonja]

I had always understood ODG’s to mean “Old Dead Guys”. This is the first I’ve heard that some read it as “Old Dressage gods.” (wouldn’t that be abbreviated ODg’s?) :winkgrin:

[clanter]

Wild Burbon from Kentucky ..isn't that the name of that dog he got from the KY dog rescue?

[partita]

mbm I agree with you. I was taught and I thought "outside the box" for 24 years. I finally found someone to teach me "inside the box" and I'm not coming out anytime soon! :D

[Horsedances]

What everybody seems to forget about ODG's is the fact that there are still many people alive and kicking who have trained with these ODG's for years. And just to put it simple, these ODG's also had a very big toolbox at the time they had to guide their students to the Olympic Gold Medal.:yes:

IMHO the 1.000.000 $ question is why did they suddenly change their minds.:confused:

[Karoline]

Homard, lobster, its all the same delicious thing.

I think some of you need to remember that you are upper level riders and as such you can begin exploring outside the box. I think that for jo shmo amateur rider whith no foundation to speak of, that exploration can result in a really bad deal for the horse.

I say, learn how to ride per the ODG, when you have mastered that, then you should have the theoritical knowledge and riding experience to venture out. But have the discipline to learn the traditional way first.

Especially since, when we speak of the modern horse, we are not speaking of 99% of the horses jo shmo amateur rider has in its backyard.

What are the problems folks post: horse wont bend, horse wont half halt, horse wont take this or that lead, horse stops, horse wont stop. Who is usually at fault? The rider.

I think recently we had a very heated discussion between two very accomplished riders: Gigi and Lesley about the use of the hand. It got very passionate, but we got through it all a bit the better for it. We have had really interresting discussions about the curb, and its role in FEI riding, etc... and there are definitely different views being expressed. However, it does not degenerate as it can here because there is always a few to jump in and redirect for the sake of the knowledge being shared, and no one walks away feeling slighted. At least, that's the goal.

And Horsedance, you must realize the vast difference in educational opportunities in Europe and here. It makes it that much more delicate.

And, perhaps the ODGs you mention used deep and very deep but I think rk to the extreme shown today is a diffrent ball of wax. And it is that that they object to. Even Sjef said that what he was doing was not what shulteis-Baumert (spel) was doing.

And this is not an rk thread. It a WE MISS THE UDB thread, so lets please not have a fight.

[mbm]

What everybody seems to forget about ODG's is the fact that there are still many people alive and kicking who have trained with these ODG's for years. And just to put it simple, these ODG's also had a very big toolbox at the time they had to guide their students to the Olympic Gold Medal.:yes:

IMHO the 1.000.000 $ question is why did they suddenly change their minds.:confused:

i dont understand why it is so bad for a trainer to find a better way and then stick to it and then, becuase they believe so much in what they are doing, take the time to let others know to.

also, if my trainer is any example, there are folks out there that follow the book so to speak and dont take the horse out behind the tool shed for special work just becuase a ribbon is to be had.

also, just becuase some traienrs do do that doesnt make the traditional methods incorrect or wrong. they do work. i see it each and every day.

[Jmc]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...back up a minute. I got the impression that some of the members here were talking about the general attitude of UDBB being closed minded. And I disagreed...we have plenty of posters who, right or wrong, offer information that is considered off the perfect path. Non of them dissed the odg's. Nobody is saying the odg's are wrong. They are saying that NEVER doing anything that you can't look up in a book somewhere is closed minded.

I LOVE THE ODG'S but.....there are times, with a re-train, or poorly trained, or spoiled (in my horse's case) when you have to do what works....and I am not talking about 'R' !

And as much as I hate to admit it...I actually agree with Theo....those guys were horsemen, not walking quotes.

Oh boy, I think I've been here too long :lol:

[Jmc]

I say, learn how to ride per the ODG, when you have mastered that, then you should have the theoritical knowledge and riding experience to venture out. But have the discipline to learn the traditional way first.



Yes

[sabryant]

What everybody seems to forget about ODG's is the fact that there are still many people alive and kicking who have trained with these ODG's for years. And just to put it simple, these ODG's also had a very big toolbox at the time they had to guide their students to the Olympic Gold Medal.:yes:

IMHO the 1.000.000 $ question is why did they suddenly change their minds.:confused:


Sad thing is, Horsedances, most of the people here have only read about the ODG's. If they rode with them, it was for a few weeks here and there. A lot of the meaning has been lost in translation or misinterprated. Is that obvious or what?

ps. by "here" I mean the US, not this board.

[mbm]

I LOVE THE ODG'S but.....there are times, with a re-train, or poorly trained, or spoiled (in my horse's case) when you have to do what works....and I am not talking about 'R' !

see, this is what i dont get..... i would be willing to bet that whatever issue you are having has been written about by one ODG or another.... we are dealing with horses... while they are lovely lovely animals thay arent that different one to another.... yes, they each have their issues but some other horse has had the same issue and the classical /traditional methods have an answer to the issue.

what i see happening (not directed at you jmc ) is that 90% of all horses issues are the riders!!

just becuase you havent read it doenst mean that it hasnt been written or talked about or address by an ODG!

(they rode and trained for their entire lives (70 years? avg maybe?) - training 100's and 100's of horses.... Maybe 1000's of horses.... and we have many ODGs.... some how i doubt that there is a problem that they havent seen/addressed. )

sorry edited becuase my spell checker isnt working....

and to say that there is a book by Suenig that is all about "issues" it lists an issue and then the solution. and he goes theu many issues. its one of the most useful books i have read.

[Jmc]

what i see happening (not directed at you jmc ) is that 90% of all horses issues are the riders!!



hee hee...actually it is my fault...but I'm learning :)

[mbm]

Sad thing is, Horsedances, most of the people here have only read about the ODG's. If they rode with them, it was for a few weeks here and there. A lot of the meaning has been lost in translation or misinterprated. Is that obvious or what?

ps. by "here" I mean the US, not this board.

okay, can you tell me please what it is that you think that the ODGs do that we are missing? I know very well that riding and training is not perfect all the time.... but i get so sick of these posts that sublty or not so subtly say that if i witnessed what the ODGs did i would be shocked.,... and that as an american i suck and am ill educated.

[Sabine]

lots of good info- and no fighting yet- jeez- must be that good influence those UDBBers have...:LOL!!

I think Karoline is right- as often- in that you have to have the foundation of the ODGs and once you have mastered that and riding well- you can, should and have to begin to train the horse- rather than just ride the horse.
Once training- you need the tool box- there are lots of great tools in there and those that condem one or the other tool are usually the ones that have not used that tool and therefore just have an 'opinion' about it.

All tools don't work on all horses - therefore one must think creatively and maintain always the utmost horsemanship.

Now- back to UDBB- I recall a mass banning last summer- which was sad and painful- and since that time I don't go there anymore- (sp can't go there anymore...:) Sometimes I have missed it- but very often I find the discussions stifling and individual contributors banging their heads against the wall because the typical gang won't 'allow' a certain view.
I do feel that there is a certain 'looking down' on those that leave the proverbial 2x4 sandbox and think outside of the walls....
So I have found COTH very refreshing- if at times a tad rougher- because you can totally say what you mean- without fear that you will get the knife...:)

[sabryant]

hee hee...actually it is my fault...but I'm learning :)


Jmc, I think you have a great spirit!

[mbm]

l

Now- back to UDBB- I recall a mass banning last summer- which was sad and painful- and since that time I don't go there anymore- (sp can't go there anymore...:) Sometimes I have missed it- but very often I find the discussions stifling and individual contributors banging their heads against the wall because the typical gang won't 'allow' a certain view.
I do feel that there is a certain 'looking down' on those that leave the proverbial 2x4 sandbox and think outside of the walls....
So I have found COTH very refreshing- if at times a tad rougher- because you can totally say what you mean- without fear that you will get the knife...:)

yeah, the mass banning sucked.... it is too bad that some people dont know how to play nice or to not get personal and attack people... plus there were some that were so obbssed about UDBB that they were plotting all sort of shenanigans.

i cant believe that the facts keep getting twisted...

[Sabine]

.

i cant believe that the facts keep getting twisted...


whatever facts you are referring to- I doubt you have the full picture- or anyone for that matter- except for the board owner.

[Jmc]

Jmc, I think you have a great spirit!

Thanks sabryant!

[sabryant]

okay, can you tell me please what it is that you think that the ODGs do that we are missing? I know very well that riding and training is not perfect all the time.... but i get so sick of these posts that sublty or not so subtly say that if i witnessed what the ODGs did i would be shocked.,... and that as an american i suck and am ill educated.

I was not thinking along those lines at all, mbm. I have no idea what the ODG's did to their horses. I was 7 years with an instructor who was in training with an ODG for 11 years. She did not teach me f/d/o, nor did she ride that way herself. She did teach me forward and down...down so far that if the nose touched the sand it was still not down enough. I do think that a lot of what has been written by the ODG's has been lost in translation or misinterprated.

[bjrudq]

i just want to clear this up..... i am not critical of the board COTH. there are a few posters here who make posting a challenge - and it is them i was tlaking about.... and this was all in response to a question asked by a COTH member.

:)

mbm-i should be clear, too-i wasn't referring to you.

[sabryant]

And furthermore, this ODG is a very much alive guy living here in the US but was obieritler (sorry sp) at the SRS for years before he moved here.

[Horsedances]

I do think that a lot of what has been written by the ODG's has been lost in translation or misinterprated.

Last week I heard several top-trainers and riders (who wrote these books and/or articles) say exactly the same. Many words can't be translated from German or Dutch into English and vice versa.

Durchlassigkeit, schwung, gedragen zijn, smakelijk aan het bit etc..... try to translate these words and it doesn't give you what the Germans and Dutch exactly mean with these words.

[clanter]

es sei denn das translater den Sport versteht, der weiß, was sie etwas nennen würden, das viele Bedeutungen haben könnte

[mbm]

Last week I heard several top-trainers and riders (who wrote these books and/or articles) say exactly the same. Many words can't be translated from German or Dutch into English and vice versa.

Durchlassigkeit, schwung, gedragen zijn, smakelijk aan het bit etc..... try to translate these words and it doesn't give you what the Germans and Dutch exactly mean with these words.

just because a word doest have a direct translation doesnt mean it cant be defined and translated correctly. and the person whose books is translated should make sure that their words are translated correctly.

i am riding with as close to an ODG as I am going to get here and everything he says i understand, or, if not he can get the idea across no problem. there hasn't so far, been anything that is startling - there have been small things cleared up but nothing huge. nor is this trainer not what you would think. he is kind and gentle and patient. and very very talented. (i am blessed)

i just don't think that there is this huge error in the texts that means that we (in the US) understand dressage that incorrectly.

yes there are things that got missed but really if the rider is really paying attention experimenting and reading and learning they will figure out what is missing all to soon.

but that doesn't make the ODGs wrong or bad or what have you (or am i missing what you are trying to say??)

[bjrudq]

you must be fluent in german(and now...dutch..so you can understand their old masters too)in order to advance in dressage...to make it to the inner circle, becasue speaking and understanding english(especially american english) makes you inferior to these old and new gods of dressage...(where is the rolling eyes emoticon?)

[Lambie Boat]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Fairview Horse Center]

here ya go :rolleyes: :D

[Karoline]

And this is why I love and miss UDB and await its return. We simply do not have these kinds of circular and rabid arguments there.

[Sabine]

Nope that is not true...and I can relate that some of you get sour with these statements...but I hate to say- you all have subscribed to an expensive sport- put in the time and save one vacation to go to Germany and /or Holland and /or Denmark and ride for 2 weeks in a pro environment- and you will feel like someone gave you an injection of some strange serum of awareness, feel, passion and commitment. I was born there and got it from my infancy into my leaving the country- with very horsey parents and all- but I can only report- that everytime I go home- it feels like I am reconnecting to a major power source of real riding...sorry- I am not American and I can't say it better- but it is true...

There is something about the popularity of the sport - how many folks over there ride dressage- how the 'old' rules are always upheld to a degree that is not known here...from when you enter the arena and ask permission to do so- to many other details...I am not a good enough writer to explain it all - but it is true.

So please don't be bitter- but just maybe check into some way or form of getting exposure at least for a couple of days...and see if it works for you!

[Karoline]

Yes but if I go to France and ride with the Henriquet, Colonel Carde or Phillip Karl, I will get something very different then what the German, Deutch, etc.. (well some of them) are doing, wont I - and yet it will have enthusiasm, passion, vigor and everything else you mention.

And if I go and spend 3 months with Debbie or Hilda, Gigi or Steven, are you saying that I wont get my money's worth?

There are many bad riders in Europe, as I was shocked to see the last time I was in Germany (last year) and visited a dressage barn "Kronenhof" in Lagen. The funny story is I am stuck in Frankfurt and asking the cab driver to find me a dressage barn. 150 euros later. still nothing so I direct him to the hotel. In a suburb. Thank you United. Check with the receptionist. And oh surprise there is a dressage barn right behind the hotel. I could have saved 150 euros. Walked over and made a general nuisance of myself. Beautiful horses. A flotilla of single horse Brenderup looking trailers. And great facilities. But. Lovely ladies, upper level horses and plenty of position defects and draw reins. One horse ridden by a young woman in draw reins doing extravagant half pass in trot and completely off. A day in the life of a barn.

Owner was great however.

Give me mbm's barn any day.

[Sabine]

Yes but if I go to France and ride with the Henriquet, Colonel Carde or Phillip Karl, I will get something very different then what the German, Deutch, etc.. (well some of them) are doing, wont I - and yet it will have enthusiasm, passion, vigor and everything else you mention.

And if I go and spend 3 months with Debbie or Hilda, Gigi or Steven, are you saying that I wont get my money's worth?

There are many bad riders in Europe, as I was shocked to see the last time I was in Germany (last year) and visited a dressage barn "Kronenhof" in Lagen. The funny story is I am stuck in Frankfurt and asking the cab driver to find me a dressage barn. 150 euros later. still nothing so I direct him to the hotel. In a suburb. Thank you United. Check with the receptionist. And oh surprise there is a dressage barn right behind the hotel. I could have saved 150 euros. Walked over and made a general nuisance of myself. Beautiful horses. A flotilla of single horse Brenderup looking trailers. And great facilities. But. Lovely ladies, upper level horses and plenty of position defects and draw reins. One horse ridden by a young woman in draw reins doing extravagant half pass in trot and completely off. A day in the life of a barn.

Owner was great however.

Give me mbm's barn any day.

did I tell you to just plop of the plane and find the first dressage barn behind the hotel??? :/) that's a funny story- and you shouldn't mention it here- sounds a little embarrassing to me...
maybe better for you to stay in MBM's barn then...at least you know what to expect...

[nhwr]

I have ridden in the US most of my life and learned a lot. Yet, I acknowledge that there is a truth in what Sabine says. There is a whole culture surrounding equestrian activities in Europe that is missing in most of the US. You can ride for weeks with BNT in the US (and I have) and you won't get it. You can spend a weekend at the dumpy little inn with a lively bar across the street from the auction hall in Verden when an auction is in session and if you shut up and listen you will learn a lot. You will meet people and see things you'd never have access to in the US. They are open and excited to share their knowledge and equestrian heritage.

As Americans, we like to think we can do anything. Maybe we can. But why work at re-inventing the wheel when we could learning from what already exists and go from there? It isn't condescention to say this, it is fact. Instead many riders settle for having pictures spoon fed to them from the internet. But it is real life experiences improve education :yes:

[mbm]

what does ridingbarns in europe have to do this? i am confused... maybe i missed something.

who wouldn't want to go for a (working) holiday at a wonderful training facility in europe? i would LOVE to go . i wish we had that dressage-y culture here.

it could be that i am just lost - this conversation has been all over the place.

i think the last point i was trying to make was that just because a word cant be translated directly doesn't mean we in the US are ijits and cant ride. nor does it mean that the ODGs lied about what they wrote about.



(and caroline - i agree - my barn rocks - and i might just learn something ;) )

[Sabine]

I have ridden in the US most of my life and learned a lot. Yet, I acknowledge that there is a truth in what Sabine says. There is a whole culture surrounding equestrian activities in Europe that is missing in most of the US. You can ride for weeks with BNT in the US (and I have) and you won't get it. You can spend a weekend at the dumpy little inn with a lively bar across the street from the auction hall in Verden when an auction is in session and if you shut up and listen you will learn a lot. You will meet people and see things you'd never have access to in the US. They are open and excited to share their knowledge and equestrian heritage.

As Americans, we like to think we can do anything. Maybe we can. But why work at re-inventing the wheel when we could learning from what already exists and go from there? It isn't condescention to say this, it is fact. Instead many riders settle for having pictures spoon fed to them from the internet. But it is real life experiences improve education :yes:

now that's what I meant to say and just couldn't get it out right, thanks NHWR!! you hit the proverbial.....on the head. Key is - it's not uppity, it's not preaching from the pulpit...it's reallly down to earth dressage....if you can listen- you can really learn a lot and be inspired..if you do it often enough- it can become part of you...

[dlmca]

I haven't been on since yesterday and only just now saw about your dogs, Zinnia - has the basenji come back yet? I'm so sorry! I hope everything is okay. Please let us know.

[hototrot]

I was 7 years with an instructor who was in training with an ODG for 11 years. She did not teach me f/d/o, nor did she ride that way herself. She did teach me forward and down...down so far that if the nose touched the sand it was still not down enough. I do think that a lot of what has been written by the ODG's has been lost in translation or misinterprated.

See, I find this very interesting. I don't take any position on training other than it has to benefit the athletic ability of my horse and that MOST IMPORTANTLY she has to be happy. Before the FEI wrote in stone the concept of a "Happy Athelete" which by the way they take extremely seriously, it was my ultimate, over-riding dogma regarding my neurotic, terrrified, rather dangerous mare.

My trainer (who ran the stable where we liveried) has a broad background, training first with Molly Sieveright (Talland) and then with Anke. Along side this I was also training with a man who spent years at the SRS and takes clinics in the States; an absolute Kottas protege. I learned a huge amount from them both. But neither approach was strictly correct for my mare-- they BOTH inculcated problems in her for later down the line. And looking at pictures one can see that she wasn't over her back properly. And yes, my riding was perhaps not the best-- but that is what instruction is for. We did progress but with that time bomb ticking away underneath us. She DID have serious problems specific to her. I have ridden under the tuteledge of a list 1 judge for the last year who also judges Stateside from time to time. She's ridden for her country in both show jumping and dressage and written several books and I guess qualifies in my mind as an Ageless Live Gal. And her emphasis is on what is so often ignored-- the basics. And to me this is purely classical and you can't skip steps to get there. An active rear end over a supple swinging back into a receiving contact. And over the course of the last year we have both rebuilt ourselves--constantly working on my bio-mechanics enabling my horse's bio-mechanics, and the scales of training. Because it became obvious that the last two trainers attacked what they saw as problems-- BOTH of them--with techniques and didn't sort out the foundations. And no matter what path you might want to follow with your training, you have to have these basics in hand. So when I read of stretching like that my heart sings! Beautiful! And NOW my little blond bombshell is producing for me the most beautiful of mediums strides and holding the outside rein like she's holding my hand. Leg yielding with swung like she's dancing. And I know what it feels like when it's wrong, I promise you. So you know, I won't rise to these discussions of what constitutes "classical" riding and "competative" riding. I know having learned as I have what is correct and when we affiliate this Autumn at Novice/Elementary with my heart in my mouth, provided Moo doesn't go out chasing sailors, I know we'll have a great time.

My point is as I said before-- that there are differing approaches that offer different tools and one has to be able to learn enough to choose what is right. And to be able to understand what the books discuss because sometimes it's not all that easy to "get it"! And for me the scales of training are correct. But I wouldn't ever close my mind to what's out there or accept or reject something just because of who might be teaching it. Anke, in her masterclass video, said something in a lesson with a student's greenish horse. She kept repeating:"Give rein". And when I saw this many years ago and used it many years ago; boy did it help. So again-- one can learn from the most intersting sources.

[egontoast]

And this is why I love and miss UDB and await its return. We simply do not have these kinds of circular and rabid arguments there.


Stop doing it then.

You don't have arguments there because if anyone disagrees with the party line, they are banned.

Even here, very few are interested in participating in your 'rabid arguments'. Don't mistake that for agreement.

Have a look around. The Horse Care and Sporthorse breeding boards are probably the best you will see. It's a bit.. er.. odd? to take up 15 pages on this board to whine about another board that you like so much better.

[hototrot]

Any news yet about the errant hound????? Still jingling over here!!!

[zinnniaz]

Nothing. :(
Losing hope but calling all the vet clinics as they open this morning. I am hoping someone brings him in with porcupine quills-- I am pretty much the only person around who has basenjis. So it will be pretty simple if anyone appears with a brand new one. I just hope he is not already dead. We have coyotes and if he was hurt he has very little chance.

[zinnniaz]

Stop doing it then.

You don't have arguments there because if anyone disagrees with the party line, they are banned.

Even here, very few are interested in participating in your 'rabid arguments'. Don't mistake that for agreement.

Do you think that a thread about the COTH would be permitted to go on and on like this over there? NO.

Is this thread a rabid argument?

I disagree that people are banned for disagreeing with any party line.

Probably a thread about Coth would not go on and on over there.

[siegi b.]

Zinniaz - as somebody who was banned by Master Mark for having a pro RK opinion, let me tell you.. IT HAPPENS!
There is one particular poster on your dressage board, 3Sisters, that must have pictures on Mark, because she just drones on and on and turns into this very nasty person if you don't agree with her. And most of the other posters just agree with any drivel she comes up with, and that includes Mark. And God forbid, you say anything about Mark's registry of choice.. :-)
It's not a public bulletin board, it's Mark's personal forum. If you don't have a problem with that, by all means stay there. And please, take policitallyincorrect with you.

[zinnniaz]

(what's Mark's registry?)

I was saddened by many of the bannings. And I certainly find posters there that I disagree with. Had an unpleasant interchange with someone a week or two ago. BUt by far, the good posters there outweigh any bad. As I'm sure it is here. I have lurked here for a while but haven't felt at home enough to post much... probably will now. :)

Especially as you all now know my dog saga.

[bjrudq]

i don't like to see anyone banned. but as far as i can tell they have been banned for being rude, not merely disagreeing.

some people can't tell the difference between spirited argument and being insulting to others. don't know if you are one of them, siegi, or not. i don't read very single thread. but i have read some where it is clear that a banning was coming, but the rudeness just continued anyway.

is mr. basenji back yet?

[eqipoize]

And her emphasis is on what is so often ignored-- the basics. And to me this is purely classical and you can't skip steps to get there. An active rear end over a supple swinging back into a receiving contact.
And of course, that is all there is to dressage - it is as simple, and yet as difficult as that! It really Isn't so much the style of the trainer, it is the SKILL! But it is Also about working within the nature of the horse, and respecting him (or her) and allowing him to offer what he can, rather than trying to FORCE him to give more. And I think your Moo would not agree to anyone forcing her to do anything, so she sort of required you to learn the greatest think a horseperson can - Tact! Glad you found someone who can teach you the genuine traditions of dressage - you are So right about having experienced IT and then forever knowing IT when you get IT.

Now, regarding bannings and UDBB - I agree, Mark can be a bit heavy handed - basically, he will NOT tolerate personal attacks - and some people just cannot refrain from nasty cutting comments when they are unable to 'win' a debate. THAT will get you banned at UDBB. Now, it is interesting to note, we were just having a very civil discussion about the pros and cons of super deep training (don't want to offend the IDWTHAthe rWord clique) and nobody got rude or defensive, and some very valid points were made. I sometimes wonder if THAT is what blew up Suzi - it was just to much meeting of matter and antimatter! But clearly, you CAN hold a differing opinion, and still be welcome. I would like to believe that if CoTH has a similar melt down someday in the future, we will be able to permit a long running thread that allows the refugees to gather while they wait for the all clear sign from base camp. I DO appreciate the moderators here allowing this discussion to carry on for so long - and it HAS gotten into discussing horses, and training, so it isn't completely off topic. I know there are members here who can't come there, and that is unfortunate, but really, it isn't about WHAT you say or think, but HOW you express it. Civility counts. I like the Mayberry RFD environment - I don't care if the 'real world' is harsh, I don't have to let that change me, and I don't have to wallow in it, I can step around bile and vitrol, and stick to the honey. So, those of you who believe that debating the party line gets you banned at UDBB, sorry that is what you believe, but I have clearly seen different.

Zinnia - Please don't give up yet - basenjis are very tough for their size - and they have incredible noses which they Love to follow, and they are also very independant souls. Let's continue to jingle prayers for a safe return, and PLEASE post as soon as that happens! Miracles happen. Hang tight to the rope of hope.

[carolprudm]

Sigh, Monday morning and still no UDBB. Wicky, for the first time in MONTHS I had a smile on my face when I rode yesterday.
OK, it was the first time in weeks that I rode at all.

Suzy, being the Ultimatedressage Queen and an expensive one at that is in need of some serious retail therapy (or maybe sacrificial offerings) to restore her to her good health and benevolence. And Mark is probably WAAAAY beyond pizza and coke at this point.

I sent in a donation using Paypay and my credit card to the email address on what should be the UDDB home page. Paypal will ask what you are paying for. I used Service which has no fees. Evidently if you use a credit card and select Quasi Cash it might be considered to be a cash advance and have associated fees.

[zinnniaz]

is mr. basenji back yet?

nope. Worry is high.

[Aylah]

Well said eqipoize!
I also find it interesting that there are almost 11,000 views for this thread.

Zinnniaz, BIG JINGLES I have a roaming GSD that went missing for 3 days. He returned on the day I fried his favorite stinky meal of liver!

[Horsedances]

After all these years I have a very good idea about what's going wrong on TOB.

Go with the flow or be banned. Or better go with Kram and his proteges or be banned.

I have been asked to join TOB 3 years ago, and I can still send you all the mail I received from Mark, Mike etc..... Wooow they were so happy that i was on TOB, Your book is next to our open fire-place and we read it every day

UNTILL.... I started to post critique about the way the most of the USA riders create their Musical Freestyle. (at that time I didn't know that Mark's wife was using exactly this way of making Musical Freestyles for her cliënts).

So the banning started, and untill today I hold the world record of most banned person on TOB.

[hototrot]

Nothing. :(
Losing hope but calling all the vet clinics as they open this morning. I am hoping someone brings him in with porcupine quills-- I am pretty much the only person around who has basenjis. So it will be pretty simple if anyone appears with a brand new one. I just hope he is not already dead. We have coyotes and if he was hurt he has very little chance.

Honey, please know that if sheer force of will has anything to do with it, then he'll get home, I'm jingling, Moo's jingling and so are my dogs...

Don't give up hope yet.xxxxxxxxxM

[siegi b.]

Theo, you mean that you could go back and then got banned again?? Guess Mark didn't want to do without your video clips... :-) As I said before, TOB looks like Mark's personal forum and as long as you agree with his opinions as well as his fan club you're good to go.

His registry? The AWS, I think.... that's where his stallion is registered. Let's not even get started on that subject, please!

[Horsedances]

Theo, you mean that you could go back and then got banned again?? Guess Mark didn't want to do without your video clips... :-) As I said before, TOB looks like Mark's personal forum and as long as you agree with his opinions as well as his fan club you're good to go.

His registry? The AWS, I think.... that's where his stallion is registered. Let's not even get started on that subject, please!

Siegi, One of the best thing to do, when surfing the Internet is to buy a small little program called "proxy-roulette". This software hides your IP-address while surfing, so you don't get all these SPAM in your Mailbox.

Another benefit is that you can login and create numerous accounts everywhere and anywhere. I don't have time for this but my son makes a living out of this. Ergo when I read on TOB that they are refering to me or my website I jump in.

So if you want to post on TOB, just let me know and my son create an account for you :lol:

[pawsplus]

Another benefit is that you can login and create numerous accounts everywhere and anywhere. I don't have time for this but my son makes a living out of this. Ergo when I read on TOB that they are refering to me or my website I jump in.

So if you want to post on TOB, just let me know and my son create an account for you :lol:

I'm amazed that anyone spends the time and energy doing this, and then admits to it! Pretty lame.

[eqipoize]

Hurray - there are signs of life from Suzi - I just got an email that there had been a reply to the extended trot discussion! Now, I still couldn't get ON the bb - but this gives me an inkling that work is progressing and we might be up and running soon! Which is a good thing, as I keep getting server error messages here - I think the additional pressure of a few hundred extra people is straining the system and I would hate for Coth's server to crash next!!!!

Theo - I hope that you are a charming man in person, but your writing style on the bb is nothing short of arrogant, rude and filled with personal insults. In fact your writing style is SO distinct, that Each time you have tried to 'reappear' in a new form, you are spotted and kicked out simply because you are once again using a Free Email address. Some people actually get in with these free email addresses because they maintain a friendly attitude and no one reports them for inappropriate conduct.

I doubt that the Susol's feel threatened by your business, you are on a different continent! But really, I could go back (one the bb in on line) and copy and paste some of the comments you have made in the past, and others would see for themselves, you just can't resist attacking those who disagree with you. I am sure it is just 'artistic temperment' - but it doesn't come accross well on the bb. I am sure this site suits you much better, which makes me wonder why you KEEP trying to sneak onto UDBB??? Anyway, I am sure you will be back, and sooner or later, you will burst into a string of insults about how we Americans don't know diddily, and we have No appreciation for good dressage, and everything Modern is head and shoulders over anything written in the past, and people who post on the internet don't know how to ride or at least never get around to it (of course, that might be a pot and kettle comment) and besides, the classic guys really take horses out behind the barn and either beat them or turn them into pretzels. And then you will complain about being banned for having a different opinion, rather than realizing you just don't know how to present your position without being defensive and insulting. Must be a European thing, eh?

Oh well, soon we can find the open gate, and the herd will blast back into greener pastures. Once again, thank you CoTH for the hospitality, I hope we brought a little something positive into your forums, and that the strain on your servers hasn't done any permanent damage. And Zinnia, we are still jingling for prodigal basenjis!!!

[Beau_Cheval_Rouge]

I try to stay pretty neutral on all the boards I post on, simply because you never know who's lurking and watching what you say. However, the reason I chose the UDBB over COTH is that I feel it is more of an organized board, and the members aren't as vicious as some that post here on COTH. Of course any debate will have it's sides, etc. I do feel as if some members of each board tend to become petty and childish, and so I stay out of that. It is insulting to me that members make personal stabs at each other, when in truth - you don't REALLY know the other member from tom's cat.

I do admit I lurk on COTH and other boards, because there is a wealth of GOOD information, not always snotty and catty remarks. On that note....

Erin, thank you so much for allowing the UDBB members to post here on not-so-very horsey threads created, while Mark fixes the server.

[Aimee Thanatogenus]

Jingles for the basenji, Zinn.

3Sisters isn't here to defend herself, but she considers her ideas with some depth. I don't agree most of the time, but she doesn't come across as a drone. It's called discussion. No one gets banned for that.

Bans were not for any other reason than schoolyard idiocy.

Party line? No party line.

Sar and co were banned because they behaived like kindergarteners.
I still have copies of the threads, from all boards. It was bad.

I figure if you don't have anything on your mind but disliking UDBB, well, you clearly need to get a life.
COTH is nice.
BUT even your mod has posted that the breeding forum is nutty. Your mod.
:yes: :yes: :yes:

Nothing wrong with multiple boards, etc. Big deal.

Maybe it seems DQ heavy there, but at least it's got two training forums that are really helpful and low on the snarkiness factor.
HUGE benefit for many of us.

[Karoline]

Ready to go back home because even this thread as already descended into the same old same old:

- Only europeans know "real" dressage and riding. Us beotians must go sometime to experiement, the real thing.

- TOB is a communist BB where all descending opinions are banned.

- The ODGs are dead, the modern horse is here, move on.

etc...

X fingers that Suzy is better.

And absolutely, the Horse Care forum here is great.

[mzpeepers]

Ready to go back home because even this thread as already descended into the same old same old:

- Only europeans know "real" dressage and riding. Us beotians must go sometime to experiement, the real thing.

- TOB is a communist BB where all descending opinions are banned.

- The ODGs are dead, the modern horse is here, move on.

etc...

X fingers that Suzy is better.

And absolutely, the Horse Care forum here is great.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[SarMoniet]

Sar and co were banned because they behaived like kindergarteners.

Hey, hey, hey. Let's tell the truth here. I was banned because I revealed the identity of Pathfinder (Posse977) to my FRIENDS in a PRIVATE forum. How was I to know there was a mole amongst us? For the record, I'd already told a handful of FRIENDS who Pathfinder was in person. Guess what -- nobody ever told anyone else! Well shucky-darn, then I was "found out" in print. Did the world come to an end? Not that I noticed. Mark's feelings were hurt.

Oh, and I also called him an ass amongst my FRIENDS in the PRIVATE forum for banning them. Once I was banned, too, I made that statement publicly.

I swear, Mark's feelings get hurt more easily than most women I know.....

But oh good lord, a few faces have popped up here that make me ever so thankful that I don't hang out on the UDBB dressage board anymore. Whoa. I was sick of you then and you're even more annoying now. It takes a certain type of person to turn an "I miss the UDBB" thread into a raging RK/classical debate. Give it a rest already. It gets old. Just because you think you are right doesn't mean that everyone else has to agree with you.

So sorry. I had every intention to avoid this thread until my name was mentioned.

[sabryant]

quote eqipoize
"I hope we brought a little something positive into this forum"

With all due respect, eqipoize, I think the majority of your posts on this thread have been negative. I think Theo states the facts of what has happened to him and the facts about what is happening on the other side of the pond. I haven't, to date, read a post by him that was rude to anyone.

[egontoast]

Ready to go back home because even this thread as already descended into the same old same old

toodle-oo!

- Only europeans know "real" dressage and riding. Us beotians must go sometime to experiement, the real thing.:

who said that? Maybe ONE person?

TOB is a communist BB where all descending opinions are banned.-

Poor spelling aside, you said it!


The ODGs are dead, the modern horse is here, move on.-

Sorry you feel that way.

etc...

X fingers that Suzy is better.

praying fervently!

[sabryant]

See, I find this very interesting. I don't take any position on training other than it has to benefit the athletic ability of my horse and that MOST IMPORTANTLY she has to be happy. Before the FEI wrote in stone the concept of a "Happy Athelete" which by the way they take extremely seriously, it was my ultimate, over-riding dogma regarding my neurotic, terrrified, rather dangerous mare.

My trainer (who ran the stable where we liveried) has a broad background, training first with Molly Sieveright (Talland) and then with Anke. Along side this I was also training with a man who spent years at the SRS and takes clinics in the States; an absolute Kottas protege. I learned a huge amount from them both. But neither approach was strictly correct for my mare-- they BOTH inculcated problems in her for later down the line. And looking at pictures one can see that she wasn't over her back properly. And yes, my riding was perhaps not the best-- but that is what instruction is for. We did progress but with that time bomb ticking away underneath us. She DID have serious problems specific to her. I have ridden under the tuteledge of a list 1 judge for the last year who also judges Stateside from time to time. She's ridden for her country in both show jumping and dressage and written several books and I guess qualifies in my mind as an Ageless Live Gal. And her emphasis is on what is so often ignored-- the basics. And to me this is purely classical and you can't skip steps to get there. An active rear end over a supple swinging back into a receiving contact. And over the course of the last year we have both rebuilt ourselves--constantly working on my bio-mechanics enabling my horse's bio-mechanics, and the scales of training. Because it became obvious that the last two trainers attacked what they saw as problems-- BOTH of them--with techniques and didn't sort out the foundations. And no matter what path you might want to follow with your training, you have to have these basics in hand. So when I read of stretching like that my heart sings! Beautiful! And NOW my little blond bombshell is producing for me the most beautiful of mediums strides and holding the outside rein like she's holding my hand. Leg yielding with swung like she's dancing. And I know what it feels like when it's wrong, I promise you. So you know, I won't rise to these discussions of what constitutes "classical" riding and "competative" riding. I know having learned as I have what is correct and when we affiliate this Autumn at Novice/Elementary with my heart in my mouth, provided Moo doesn't go out chasing sailors, I know we'll have a great time.

My point is as I said before-- that there are differing approaches that offer different tools and one has to be able to learn enough to choose what is right. And to be able to understand what the books discuss because sometimes it's not all that easy to "get it"! And for me the scales of training are correct. But I wouldn't ever close my mind to what's out there or accept or reject something just because of who might be teaching it. Anke, in her masterclass video, said something in a lesson with a student's greenish horse. She kept repeating:"Give rein". And when I saw this many years ago and used it many years ago; boy did it help. So again-- one can learn from the most intersting sources.

Not quite sure what you are trying to get across here, hototrot?? What I was trying to relate is: if you come from a backgroud of pactical (vs. what you read in a book) training from the ODG's, there is little difference between the ODG's way of training and the "modern" deep training of todays horses.

[siegi b.]

Eggy - you just have to quit descending... I mean, how low can you get? Other than that... I'm in agreement with your lovely post. :-)

[hototrot]

Not quite sure what you are trying to get across here, hototrot?? What I was trying to relate is: if you come from a backgroud of pactical (vs. what you read in a book) training from the ODG's, there is little difference between the ODG's way of training and the "modern" deep training of todays horses.

I was using my own experience, much as you were, to illustrate that good can come from all schools as can bad. I feel that we should learn about the tools at our disposal instead of dismissing them and ride safeguarded by keeping the "happy althleticism" of our horses as the primary objective. And I feel too that these days one sees far too many necks far too short regardless of who the trainer is or which school of thought he/she espouses. Reading is great-- but very hard to translate into feel which is part of the problem when one draws from books again regardless of who writes them.

Also that the competative-modern vs the classical-SRS(for example) schism which is so often beaten to death in these BBs is to me meaningless. To me true classicism is simple adherence to the scales of training. Just my personal view which my experience has taught me and which serves me very well.

And your illustration of stretching in that way was lovely to read.
Sorry is this any clearer to you? Feel free to drop me a pm if you'd like?:)

[dlmca]

See, this is why, although I enjoy COTH and many of the folks here, I so seldom post - by the time I formulate a reply, type it up, edit it 50 gazillion times so it says what I really mean and doesn't sound too stupid, the thread has gone off on an entirely new tangent and I end up saying "oh, never mind" and deleting the whole thing. Which just happened again. I guess I'll have to learn to be quicker if I want to play in this sandbox. ;)

Zin, hope that Holly is recovering from her porcupine encounter and that the basenji will be home soon, none the worse for wear! Jingling really hard for him.

Anyway, thanks again to all you COTHers (and thanks to Erin too) for hosting us and letting us have a little corner of the server for a while. We'll be out of your hair soon.

[BarbB]

I disagree that people are banned for disagreeing with any party line.


That's really funny :yes:
Don't say that in front of any of the boogers.....or even those of us who were banned for laughing at them. :lol:

[Sannois]

Let me say I think it is EXTREMELY generous of our mods to let this 17 page sob fest go on unlocked!
That said, I have never know Erin to ban anyone for having a difference of opinion, if that was the case we would all be banned! :D She may make some cool their heels for a period if they have gotten a bit evil in their posts. We have had our share of snarly train wrecks on here, but what I have found is no one really hold a grudge, I have not been agreement about Rollkur on here, and I still respect the ones who are not against it..
And yes its a public board, but I have a private board as well, several COTHERS and friends, who talk about weight loss and horses and life in General, I have never banned anyone, I have blocked a few sickos over the years cause it is a universal board, anyone can get in.
What I love about COTH is that there is such a wide range of experience in all areas of horses, And people can always find help in so many areas of horses. So I think I will never be a member of UDBB I cant any way according to the owner, I am a low life I have a free mail account! And personally I will stick to COTH!!!
Just imagine your moderator being this tolerant about a 17 page thread about another board! :eek: :no:

[sabryant]

I was using my own experience, much as you were, to illustrate that good can come from all schools as can bad. I feel that we should learn about the tools at our disposal instead of dismissing them and ride safeguarded by keeping the "happy althleticism" of our horses as the primary objective. And I feel too that these days one sees far too many necks far too short regardless of who the trainer is or which school of thought he/she espouses. Reading is great-- but very hard to translate into feel which is part of the problem when one draws from books again regardless of who writes them.

Also that the competative-modern vs the classical-SRS(for example) schism which is so often beaten to death in these BBs is to me meaningless. To me true classicism is simple adherence to the scales of training. Just my personal view which my experience has taught me and which serves me very well.

And your illustration of stretching in that way was lovely to read.
Sorry is this any clearer to you? Feel free to drop me a pm if you'd like?:)

No worries, hototrot, I understand this last post and I, totally, agree with you! It is not your fault on the last post either. I have terrible dyslexia and get mixed up if I have to read or type a very long post. I had to have a laugh at Dlmca's post as this often happens to me too unless I can be quick and to the point. Hang in there dlmca!!!

[eqipoize]

there is little difference between the ODG's way of training and the "modern" deep training of todays horses.

Well, I guess it depends on what degree of 'Deep' you consider to represent Modern training. IF you only mean that sometimes the horse goes btv, and even poll low, then sure, old horsemen knew you needed to allow that, or at least ignore the mistake sometimes. But, If one wants to consider Walter Zettl an example of the Old tradition, then I would say there is a WORLD of difference between his training and most of what we see in the warm up ring at show. In Practical use as well as in theory. If you do Not consider WAZ an living example of the old traditions, then I would have to ask whom you think is training in the old style? and are they really mirroring the modern fashion of over bending the neck and then Hoping the quarters come through? Because that is really the defining difference - one method goes after the back end FIRST and then waits for a letting go in the top line, which will be manifest with a giving at the poll - simply because the muscles have stop resisting, but the face almost Never goes behind the vertical, because that would mean the horse was pulling his nose back away from the bit, instead of stretching Into it. The Modern method seems to use actions of the bit and driving from the legs and bracing of the back to shape the horses topline FIRST and then try to drive the quarters up and under. IF you get enough forward activity, this tactic can work, after a fashion, because speed mimics the activity of true impulsion. However, the ability to Collect is impaired, because the rider has sacrificed the ability to half halt correctly. Instead, when the HH is applied, the horse Yeilds to the bit, and Gives at the poll, Just as he has been taught, but he Doesn't sit down behind. The evidence of this failure to really influence the hindquarters is in the widespread poor quality piaffes, pirouettes and balanced halts. I am not talking about the ability or lack of ability to Stand Still - I mean to halt with the quarters engaged, rather than simply artificially squared up, and slightly out behind. You don't see any problems? Ok, you are entitled to your opinions, as I am mine. I just respect the people who showed me where the faults were, and improved my eye. They are old, and now, some are dead, but they were horsemen and women, and they did not believe in Making a horse do dressage, they taught about Allowing the horse to Offer. And there in lies the greatest difference "between the ODG's way of training and the "modern" deep training of todays horses." Sorry if you think there is little difference. I see otherwise.

[sabryant]

Well, I guess it depends on what degree of 'Deep' you consider to represent Modern training. IF you only mean that sometimes the horse goes btv, and even poll low, then sure, old horsemen knew you needed to allow that, or at least ignore the mistake sometimes. But, If one wants to consider Walter Zettl an example of the Old tradition, then I would say there is a WORLD of difference between his training and most of what we see in the warm up ring at show. In Practical use as well as in theory. If you do Not consider WAZ an living example of the old traditions, then I would have to ask whom you think is training in the old style? and are they really mirroring the modern fashion of over bending the neck and then Hoping the quarters come through? Because that is really the defining difference - one method goes after the back end FIRST and then waits for a letting go in the top line, which will be manifest with a giving at the poll - simply because the muscles have stop resisting, but the face almost Never goes behind the vertical, because that would mean the horse was pulling his nose back away from the bit, instead of stretching Into it. The Modern method seems to use actions of the bit and driving from the legs and bracing of the back to shape the horses topline FIRST and then try to drive the quarters up and under. IF you get enough forward activity, this tactic can work, after a fashion, because speed mimics the activity of true impulsion. However, the ability to Collect is impaired, because the rider has sacrificed the ability to half halt correctly. Instead, when the HH is applied, the horse Yeilds to the bit, and Gives at the poll, Just as he has been taught, but he Doesn't sit down behind. The evidence of this failure to really influence the hindquarters is in the widespread poor quality piaffes, pirouettes and balanced halts. I am not talking about the ability or lack of ability to Stand Still - I mean to halt with the quarters engaged, rather than simply artificially squared up, and slightly out behind. You don't see any problems? Ok, you are entitled to your opinions, as I am mine. I just respect the people who showed me where the faults were, and improved my eye. They are old, and now, some are dead, but they were horsemen and women, and they did not believe in Making a horse do dressage, they taught about Allowing the horse to Offer. And there in lies the greatest difference "between the ODG's way of training and the "modern" deep training of todays horses." Sorry if you think there is little difference. I see otherwise.


I rode in 3/4 clinics with WAZ in 1988/1989. Personally, I could not understand his English. I hope it has gotten better by now. Most of my prior training, was from Greta Towle who was with KM for 11 years. She taught me forward and down!! Not forward down and OUT!! How much more classical can you get than KM. If you ride deep with the hind legs stepping into the wither muscles, you can get the horse to step through/under without force or malice. It makes mince meat out of your above theroy on deep.

[clanter]

I have never know Erin to ban anyone for having a difference of opinion, if that was the case we would all be banned!

there could be a first time...LOL

Again I want to extend my thanks to CLOTH and if we are in the way we would understand you shutting us down

[eqipoize]

I suspect it is because you misunderstand my position on "Out" . I do Not want a horse who roots his nose forward, that shows resistance over the top of the poll. I want those muscles to release, and when they do, the poll will allow the face to hang naturally - which will mean slightly in front of vertical. you say you were taught forward and down - That is fine, and often as the horse first starts this work, they will tuck their nose inward because they lack the strength to really go 'forward' with their nose. OK, fine, forgivable, not desirable, but ignored in view of the overall picture. But if you are Pulling their nose in to that posture, you are missing some of the stretch, and worse yet, if your main goal is to tuck that nose in, Then you are not going forward and down, you are going down and In - which shortens the neck and teaches an incorrect folding at C3. That isn't theory, it is fact. But I also suspect that is Not how YOU ride forward and down - so what do you have to worry about? Just as I don't get concerned when someone disses on "Classical" trainers who harp on 'get the head up' and wind up with false elevation and tight backs. I don't ride like that, so I don't have to defend that. I simply say 'that's the wrong sort of classical, and represents a misunderstanding'. And much of the problematic 'deep' work also is a 'wrong sort' of deep and represents a misunderstanding. Where we run into trouble is when the actual authority on a technique or style rides in a manner that is very much at odds with the tradition of opening the topline and allowing the horse to step into the riders hands. Now what can you say? You can't say that it is a misunderstanding of their style, because THEY are the ones doing it.

Please know, I am not one of the rabid ones who screams every time a horse happens to get a little btv - any more than I would tear my hair out if a horse came a bit ABOVE the vertical! I am not riding that end of the horse anyway - I just use the information given to know more about how my horse is managing his balance. So, just because you may train a bit deeper than I might, fine, I surely won't call for you to be hung on the cross of tradition - because for some horses it is an important part of their development. But if I were to see you braced in the stirrups with your hands low and wide and your horse's mouth gaping open, while his chin rests on his chest, well, if it lasted for more than a few moments, I would surely form an opinion about your riding and training, and it wouldn't be the kindest. But as Ray Hunt would say, if the shoe doesn't fit your foot, stop kicking and trying to put it on!

[GansMyMan]

What I have learned from this thread:

A. Ultimatedressage.com is down for repairs.

B. You all suck and I rock and maybe you don't agree with me and that means you can all be ignored, but not before I take my horses and go post on some other thread. neener neener boo boo?

C. 17 pages means someone is getting their a$$ handed to them. And it could be me if only I was faster and noticed when a thread was getting really long.

D. all of the above.

[egontoast]

sabryant, in '88 Zettl had not been in NA very long. He was brought over to coach the Canadian Olympic eventing team and young Riders, I think.

He's Engleesh iss perfect now.

It's been delightful having SOME of you here! Not so delightful to have those house guests who constantly whine about where they would rather be! And when they get back there, there will no doubt be another gagworthy thread about how awful it was on the Dark Side.

Good riddance to them!:cool:

PS I was booted from that sainted board for disagreeingwith one of the self righteous covenistas with a name similar to Moaningka. No warnings, no nuttin. Blessing in Disguise. THANK YOU!

[mbm]

sabyrant -

i happen to ride with someone who has very good Creds from europe.... and i can tell you that he does not have me ride anything similar to what the "average" modern deep rider does.... and it is all very much what i would find in any good dressage text...

and it works. REALLY well.

does he care about momentary little btv or a little too deep? nope... what he does care about is getting the horse forward and active and through.

its a wonder to behold as horses blossom under his tuteledge.

so i have to dissagree with your statement... altho again i have to say that perhaps we are talking about the same thing and just have a communication problem? its hard to tell :(

[Sabine]

sabryant, in '88 Zettl had not been in NA very long. He was brought over to coach the Canadian Olympic eventing team and young Riders, I think.

He's Engleesh iss perfect now.

It's been delightful having SOME of you here! Not so delightful to have those house guests who constantly whine about where they would rather be! And when they get back there, there will no doubt be another gagworthy thread about how awful it was on the Dark Side.

Good riddance to them!:cool:

PS I was booted from that sainted board for disagreeingwith one of the self righteous covenistas with a name similar to Moaningka. No warnings, no nuttin. Blessing in Disguise. THANK YOU!

Eggie- you just made me spill my salsa.....LOL!
I would love to know who all the folks from UDBB are that have recently signed up here and given themselves a clean slate...(with a new name...:)
bet there are quite a few here now, that have a reputation over on the sunny side...:)

carry on...I hope I don't choke on the chips...

[Sabine]

sabyrant -

i happen to ride with someone who has very good Creds from europe.... and i can tell you that he does not have me ride anything similar to what the "average" modern deep rider does.... and it is all very much what i would find in any good dressage text...

and it works. REALLY well.

does he care about momentary little btv or a little too deep? nope... what he does care about is getting the horse forward and active and through.

its a wonder to behold as horses blossom under his tuteledge.

so i have to dissagree with your statement... altho again i have to say that perhaps we are talking about the same thing and just have a communication problem? its hard to tell :(

Have you ever considered that your trainer is teaching you what is the foundation and the prerequisite of good riding and that what Sabryant is describing is a method to EXPAND on that as you become a more feeling and competent rider. The two descriptions don't exclude each other- one is the foundation for the other....

[saltheart]

"I would love to know who all the folks from UDBB are that have recently signed up here and given themselves a clean slate...(with a new name...
bet there are quite a few here now, that have a reputation over on the sunny side...:"

I am one of those (yes, new name!) Clean slate - yahoo!

[Utah]

Heee's Engleeeesh is veeeery gute, howeveeer, the first time I heard,
"Zee mouse is zee most sensitve part of the horse", it took some time. Zee Mouse? What part is Zee Mouse? I have never heard of Zee Mouse!

"Yah, zee mouse. Zometimes zee beet heets zee teeth when are hands are too heavy (Etc, etc)." AHA! Zee mouse! I felt like a gosh darn rocket scientist for finally figuring that one out!

[swinrich]

Heee's Engleeeesh is veeeery gute, howeveeer, the first time I heard,
"Zee mouse is zee most sensitve part of the horse", it took some time. Zee Mouse? What part is Zee Mouse? I have never heard of Zee Mouse!

"Yah, zee mouse. Zometimes zee beet heets zee teeth when are hands are too heavy (Etc, etc)." AHA! Zee mouse! I felt like a gosh darn rocket scientist for finally figuring that one out!

The first time I audited the german born clinician that comes in monthly I was extremely confused when she kept saying "touch him on zee bud!"

[bjrudq]

eggie wrote: "And when they get back there, there will no doubt be another gagworthy thread about how awful it was on the Dark Side."

god, i hope not. that would be very impolite, imho.

i for one like it here, even though i don't post here as much.

and i use the same name here as i do on udbb, always have. like many others.

[sabryant]

I suspect it is because you misunderstand my position on "Out" . I do Not want a horse who roots his nose forward, that shows resistance over the top of the poll. I want those muscles to release, and when they do, the poll will allow the face to hang naturally - which will mean slightly in front of vertical. you say you were taught forward and down - That is fine, and often as the horse first starts this work, they will tuck their nose inward because they lack the strength to really go 'forward' with their nose. OK, fine, forgivable, not desirable, but ignored in view of the overall picture. But if you are Pulling their nose in to that posture, you are missing some of the stretch, and worse yet, if your main goal is to tuck that nose in, Then you are not going forward and down, you are going down and In - which shortens the neck and teaches an incorrect folding at C3. That isn't theory, it is fact. But I also suspect that is Not how YOU ride forward and down - so what do you have to worry about? Just as I don't get concerned when someone disses on "Classical" trainers who harp on 'get the head up' and wind up with false elevation and tight backs. I don't ride like that, so I don't have to defend that. I simply say 'that's the wrong sort of classical, and represents a misunderstanding'. And much of the problematic 'deep' work also is a 'wrong sort' of deep and represents a misunderstanding. Where we run into trouble is when the actual authority on a technique or style rides in a manner that is very much at odds with the tradition of opening the topline and allowing the horse to step into the riders hands. Now what can you say? You can't say that it is a misunderstanding of their style, because THEY are the ones doing it.

Please know, I am not one of the rabid ones who screams every time a horse happens to get a little btv - any more than I would tear my hair out if a horse came a bit ABOVE the vertical! I am not riding that end of the horse anyway - I just use the information given to know more about how my horse is managing his balance. So, just because you may train a bit deeper than I might, fine, I surely won't call for you to be hung on the cross of tradition - because for some horses it is an important part of their development. But if I were to see you braced in the stirrups with your hands low and wide and your horse's mouth gaping open, while his chin rests on his chest, well, if it lasted for more than a few moments, I would surely form an opinion about your riding and training, and it wouldn't be the kindest. But as Ray Hunt would say, if the shoe doesn't fit your foot, stop kicking and trying to put it on!

I refer you to the archive on this board to a thread I started with a link informing of the lastest information gathered about deep/RK by hillary clayton.
The underneck of the horse does NOT become shorter in ddep/RK. And yes, i do after some time like to ride the horses face btv and toward the knees. It is for the suppling of the poll and jaw...nothing more!!! I ride the nose toward the ground until he develops some topline muscle (3 to 6 months) and then I ask for the suppling of the poll and jaw back toward the knees. Once I can develop more the muscle in front of the wither and the horse is, surely, stepping from behind to there, then I can bring the horses face up and the poll the highest point and the bit is soft and he does not struggle because he has developed the muscle to step other than against your hands. Any riding not done with making the horse in self carriage is bad riding. To me, any riding that makes the horse in self carriage is good riding no matter where the face of the horse happens to be.


Sab, I had to have a howl at your post! Thanks for the laugh! You too Eggie! You too, Utah! "Gute" was about the extent of what I could understand when I rode with him!!

[mbm]

Have you ever considered that your trainer is teaching you what is the foundation and the prerequisite of good riding and that what Sabryant is describing is a method to EXPAND on that as you become a more feeling and competent rider. The two descriptions don't exclude each other- one is the foundation for the other....

hmmm... i am not sure how its going to happen that as i go along that the basics that i am learning (which come straight from the books so to speak) are going to change so dramatically that the book would be thrown out??

in any case i watch the FEI horses from this trainer and the is no extreme deep or deep at all. the horses are nicel foreward throguh etc etc etc... but not manipulation of the neck at all.

i am REALLY looking forward to learning from this trainer.... as i mentioned i feel really blessed to be exposed to this level of work.

and fwiw, i am totally open to the possibility that sabyrant and i are talking about the same thing but just arnt commnuicating well (as i have stated several times already) :)

[dlmca]

I had to have a laugh at Dlmca's post as this often happens to me too unless I can be quick and to the point. Hang in there dlmca!!!

Hey, one of these days I'll learn to be quicker off the mark! Or else I'll just post anyway and not care that what I'm responding to happened 3 pages ago. :D

[clanter]

"I would love to know who all the folks from UDBB are that have recently signed up here and given themselves a clean slate...(with a new name...
bet there are quite a few here now, that have a reputation over on the sunny side...:"

I am one of those (yes, new name!) Clean slate - yahoo!

so you caught me again

[carolprudm]

sabryant, in '88 Zettl had not been in NA very long. He was brought over to coach the Canadian Olympic eventing team and young Riders, I think.

He's Engleesh iss perfect now.

It's been delightful having SOME of you here! Not so delightful to have those house guests who constantly whine about where they would rather be! And when they get back there, there will no doubt be another gagworthy thread about how awful it was on the Dark Side.

Good riddance to them!:cool:

PS I was booted from that sainted board for disagreeingwith one of the self righteous covenistas with a name similar to Moaningka. No warnings, no nuttin. Blessing in Disguise. THANK YOU!


I'm sure UDBB will have a large number of posts expressing happiness that Suzy has recovered and how much we missed her. We also appreciate the time effort and money Mark (and Digi)has lavished on her. We all know that he has better things to do than devote so much time and energy to her.

Most of us are very gratefull that COTH is allowing us an amazing amount of leeway. I have had my share of disagreements on UDBB(mostly over abortion and Pit Bulls) but i can't imagine any of us being less than appreciative of your hospitality.

[Tonja]

dlmca wrote:
Hey, one of these days I'll learn to be quicker off the mark! Or else I'll just post anyway and not care that what I'm responding to happened 3 pages ago. :D

I don’t worry about coming in 3 pages late if there is something I’d like to say. I quote the post I am referring to to set the context so people don’t think I’m coming in from left field and post away. (well, some may still think I’m out in left field anyway :p )

[sabryant]

Hey, one of these days I'll learn to be quicker off the mark! Or else I'll just post anyway and not care that what I'm responding to happened 3 pages ago. :D


Goody good for you!! No one minds if you post is 3 or 10 pages later! As long as you don't hijack another's thread or call someone a bad name, you're fine on this board!

[Aylah]

utem is that you...he he he

[Jmc]

Holy crap...I just spent the last 20 minutes typing out a well thought out post and my puter ate it :mad:

Here's the gist of it:

Generalizations...UDBBers think COTHERS are mean....COTHERS think UDBBers are a bunch of blow hard odg huggers.

Aren't there really just a few outspoken individuals that fit those descriptions on their respective BB's?

I was one of the jack@sses that thought that way about coth...until about 4 or 5 days ago...once I had spent some time here I changed my mind. It's not fair to generalize like that.

Don't get me wrong, I sleep next to one of my odg books every night...and as a side note...I much happier with them than I ever was sleeping next to the bum I married for 11 years! ;) I'm an odg hugger and proud of it! But that's my prerogative, isn't it?

This whole conversation is just kind of fascinating to me. Maybe I'm just a huge geek. :yes:

I seriously doubt coth will ever crash if it hasn't this week after "the invasion". But if it ever does, I would sincerely hope that a thread would be allowed for refugees. Some of you will just have to get a paid email if you want to play, that's all.;)

Still basenjingling.

[eqipoize]

I refer you to the archive on this board to a thread I started with a link informing of the lastest information gathered about deep/RK by hillary clayton.
The underneck of the horse does NOT become shorter in ddep/RK. And yes, i do after some time like to ride the horses face btv and toward the knees. It is for the suppling of the poll and jaw...nothing more!!! I ride the nose toward the ground until he develops some topline muscle (3 to 6 months) and then I ask for the suppling of the poll and jaw back toward the knees. Once I can develop more the muscle in front of the wither and the horse is, surely, stepping from behind to there, then I can bring the horses face up and the poll the highest point and the bit is soft and he does not struggle because he has developed the muscle to step other than against your hands. Any riding not done with making the horse in self carriage is bad riding. To me, any riding that makes the horse in self carriage is good riding no matter where the face of the horse happens to be.




See the longer we talk the closer together the truth comes. Because your last sentence is it in a nutshell isn't it. And if you have a horse that requires extreme deep, fine, so long as you and your horse 'out grow' it. But I will also say that I have found that suppling the poll OFTEN results in a broken neck that gives where I wish it wouldn't. Sort of like using a whip that someone has let their horse step on jor closed in the car door, and now it is broken in the middle - No spring in it, just this limp hingy thing. So, I don't do the nose to the chest thing, and I honestly believe that sooner or later, you may discover the shortcomings of that work, but if you eventually GET self carriage and engagement, then you are leagues ahead of most competitive dressage riders. Sad but quite true.

Now, I prefer NOT to discuss Hillary Clayton. I guess you either think she knows something about dressage or you don't. I have read many of her reports and found that often her selection of examples is so flawed that of course the results are flawed. And sometimes objective results are not the entire story - as shown by the discussion during the FEI symposium on "Hyperflexion" - where one study "Proved" that the back has more mobility when in the deep posture - and one participant explained that while you might have increased measured amplitude, it came from the TIGHTENED back following the motions of the withers because of the excessive stretch tightening the ligaments - so while the back "moved" more, it was NOT good dressage. So, I am not always secure in accepting that the McPhail chair's studies give results that support GOOD dressage - because I am not convinced that the researchers Know Good dressage. You probably feel quite differently. Which is why I choose not to discuss the study - because the real debate would be on its validity - which is basically personal opinion. So, believe as you will - and just accept that there are some who are not so swayed by some 'scientific studies'.

[Karoline]

God forbid the banned were banned because of their ugly dispositions.

I stand by what I see, Egontoast notwhistanding. Lovely thread and all of a sudden the same old stuff from the same old tired lot. Asking what we are doing here, bashing Marc, bashing UDB, reminding us real riding is not found in our neck of the woods, etc....interrupting the UDBers love fest. And asking what the difference is in the forums. Well, the difference is self evident to anyone willing to read 15 pages.

I like the Care Forum and the Off Course, beginning to find the Eventing stuff really interresting.

And I have not changed my name recently. I have been around for a little while with Karoline.

And if you do not like my posts, please by all mean, push your ignore button.

[valmom]

I would love to know who all the folks from UDBB are that have recently signed up here and given themselves a clean slate...(with a new name...:)
bet there are quite a few here now


Then again, some of us aren't significant enough to worry about our slates, clean or otherwise. I use the same name for just about everything...But, I'm mostly a lurker here because I'm a sissy.

[4_beatin_it]

[QUOTE=Generalizations...UDBBers think COTHERS are mean....COTHERS think UDBBers are a bunch of blow hard odg huggers.[/QUOTE]

OMG I just had the most hilarious visual with that statement. A bunch of UDBBers chained to a tree with a bunch of COTHers firing up chainsaws.

Come on guys, you have to see the humour in that visual. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

How about no more RK, no more my European trainer will beat up your American trainer, no more who is better....how about some general silliness and poking fun at the way to serious way we as riders take ourselves.

I remember on COTH when Cactus Kate was here....she was very much like Lucille on the UDBB. I remember beloved horses posting here with German accents and I even had my hands on Flat Chance (where did he go by the way???). I remember The Orgasmatron (man that was a howl) and the boogerfests on UDBB.

No more poking holes in other peoples arguments people...let it go, and how about telling one good thing about what you can remember off of either BB?

[Beau_Cheval_Rouge]

Bleccchhh no UDBB still...

I think 4_beatin_it is really on to something :)

[egontoast]

interrupting the UDBers love fest

No , it's the other way around. Cothist Interruptis.

[Karoline]

Oh, how it must irk you that people can actually be happy to find each other and have a place to connect while Suzy is down.

You are like the kid in the giant playground who must have another kid's toy. Now. No matter that there are another hundred toys (threads) around to play with.

Yes, after reflection, perhaps you are suffering from too much Interruptus, but it ain the Cothus kind.

Do everyone a favor, go kiss and cuddle, perhaps you will be more pleasant thereafter.

[cinder88]

Ya,...come on, Egon....

Give us a kiss! ;)

[carolprudm]

[QUOTE=Karoline]<SNIP>.

I like the Care Forum and the Off Course, beginning to find the Eventing stuff really interresting.

<SNIP>QUOTE]
But what happenend to the people fron Ultimate Eventing?

[Bliss]

Generalizations...UDBBers think COTHERS are mean....COTHERS think UDBBers are a bunch of blow hard odg huggers.

Aren't there really just a few outspoken individuals that fit those descriptions on their respective BB's?

I was one of the jack@sses that thought that way about coth...until about 4 or 5 days ago...once I had spent some time here I changed my mind. It's not fair to generalize like that.


BWHAHAHAHHAA:lol:

I think you got it, JMC. :yes:

I loff both boards; hope you hang around here, too, once UDBB is back up. :)

[Sabovee]

4_beatin_it.....

Boogerfest?? BOOGER?!?!

Where was I???? :mad:

....oh man.... :lol:

[clanter]

Threads: 12,489, that's what the total number of threads that have been posted here on CLOTH... so there are plenty of places to you go if this thread offends you.

Just checked and sure enough my pass word works and guess what I is a member of CLOTH too (please note date I joined)

As on all boards there aren't too many places that have some one beating you to post on a specific topic... I did not see any deception in the thread topic's heading so those that are not interested are you drawn to the flame like a moth?

[eqipoize]

Long ago, on a bb far far away, there was once a discussion on whether half pass was just hauches in on the diagonal or not. A gentleman who called himself "Instaberger" posted are very condesending commentary which included the statement "La Te Da, Ladies, there goes the neighborhood". Well, some clever soul decided that they could do a Lovely parody on this man's arrogant attitude. They posted at Instabooger, and poked all sorts of fun at European gents who felt all the American Dressage Ladies were stooges. Well, others jumped on board, and quickly, there was a large collection of Booger Alter Egos. This was when a free email was ok for signing in, so one person could have two personnae (or more)! Well, the boogers were a wild and wooley lot, and for a while, they even had their Own Mansion. There were fantastic tales of fantasy - HOrses that could fly, saddles that brought extasy to the dressage rider (the Orgasmatron!) and lots of other incredible tales. It was fun to have mass written tales, any booger could add to the story, and they were wild. Unfortunately, they also got a bit X rated, and the bb being a G rated site, the boogers were sent packing, and found their own little hide out on a less censored site. It was the first mass banning, and is probably the reason for the No Free Email address rule. And that, my friends, is the story of the Boogers.

[sugar208]

clanter, I am shocked:eek: . You are usually our peacekeeper. Kinda like a parent standing between two fussing kids.

BTW, it is COTH silly. Oh and how do I change the font size?

[sugar208]

Long ago, on a bb far far away, there was once a discussion on whether half pass was just hauches in on the diagonal or not. A gentleman who called himself "Instaberger" posted are very condesending commentary which included the statement "La Te Da, Ladies, there goes the neighborhood". Well, some clever soul decided that they could do a Lovely parody on this man's arrogant attitude. They posted at Instabooger, and poked all sorts of fun at European gents who felt all the American Dressage Ladies were stooges. Well, others jumped on board, and quickly, there was a large collection of Booger Alter Egos. This was when a free email was ok for signing in, so one person could have two personnae (or more)! Well, the boogers were a wild and wooley lot, and for a while, they even had their Own Mansion. There were fantastic tales of fantasy - HOrses that could fly, saddles that brought extasy to the dressage rider (the Orgasmatron!) and lots of other incredible tales. It was fun to have mass written tales, any booger could add to the story, and they were wild. Unfortunately, they also got a bit X rated, and the bb being a G rated site, the boogers were sent packing, and found their own little hide out on a less censored site. It was the first mass banning, and is probably the reason for the No Free Email address rule. And that, my friends, is the story of the Boogers.

Dang, and I missed that one. That sounds hilarious.

[Keep Counting]

Wow, I never realized there was such animosity between (some individuals at?) COTH and UDBB. I've been a lurker on COTH longer than UDBB, but browse both during my downtime at work. I'm too darn shy to post much anywhere (it's only taken me 4 years to get this many posts at COTH!), but both boards seem to have some good people, not sure where all the hate's coming from?

Just wanted to add in my basenjingles for Zinnia and her pup...and hope Suzy gets better soon (last week was a particularly slow week at work.)

[Sabovee]

Oh GOD - The story of the boogers!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I laughed so hard!!

... hold me.... :winkgrin:

[tewhann]

My name is Tiffany, and I am a UDBB addict!!

I had suspected this for quite a while, but KNEW I had to face up to it when I couldn't sleep last night and found myself wondering more about where everybody at UDBB was than my OWN LIFE!?!?! Or wait, maybe UDBB IS my life:eek:

Anyhoo, glad to see so much of the gang and a big thanks to COTH for hosting us!!!!!!!

So, Clanter, how long have you been moonlighting?

[Karoline]

See, even McGyver, uh, I mean Clanter is affected!

I wish I had witnessed the thread of which you speak - as it sounds like a lot of fun.

There are amazing threads here once in a while - I recall on the Off course, or was it Dressage the writing of a novel about a horse with artificial limbs.
It was extraordinary.

And of course COTH has Coreene (spel) and the very special Wilhem. If you are new, seek these posts. They will make you laugh and cry. And love your horses more.

[tewhann]

Ya know, reading through the first SEVERAL pages, I had to wonder how long it would be before the thread took the big dive.

What was it, page 8 or so?

Me, I just have to :lol:

I do miss the booger days, though.

[clanter]

clanter, I am shocked:eek: . You are usually our peacekeeper. Kinda like a parent standing between two fussing kids.

BTW, it is COTH silly. Oh and how do I change the font size?

Sorry about the miss spelling... but as I said there isn't any one dragging any one here to read this and if it offends some then don't read it.

I do not believe that there a one of us that has deceived any one to be allowed to be here.

This almost like seperating kids on the play ground...you go over there and play and stop throwing rocks at the girls ...please... and you ...get over there and play nice and stop throwing mud at them...geeee

[sugar208]

The train seemed to go off course for awhile but hopefully it is back on track now.

I do remember the thread with the horse with artificial limbs. That was hilarious. Wish I could find that one again. I need a good laugh.

[cuatx]

Hey Clanter, I thought Suzy was supposed to be back on her feet today. What's the latest from the Mothership?

[2ndDressageNut]

I loved the Magjickal Gypsy Vanners, and the Miniature Magjickal Gypsy Vanner thread.

Cactus Kate was a joy. Look up some of her posts in the "Favorites" link.

The COTH board has a tremendous wealth of information across many disciplines. UDBB has a great community of Dressage minded ladies & gents, and you sure can't beat the variety of threads that we have. Love the tack forum too.

I use the same name on both boards - although someone who doesn't ever post stole my name - hence I'm 2ndDressageNut ;)

[dlmca]

Holy crap...I just spent the last 20 minutes typing out a well thought out post and my puter ate it :mad:

Gee, not like this hasn't happened to me! :lol: Since things have been so slow and wonky on the boards lately, I've started to select and copy my whole post before I hit the "preview post" or "submit reply" buttons, just in case. It's similar to the way I used to save my Word document before I printed it, back in the day when Word was so buggy, not the stable and reliable program it is today. :rolleyes: That way if it goes south, I have it on the clipboard.

Equipoize, thanks for the story! I hadn't heard that one. Re having to have something other than a free email address, I got stuck on this one for a while when I was trying to join UDBB. I had my Yahoo address and my work address - couldn't use the Yahoo address, and I'm not allowed to use my work address for personal purposes. Then I remembered that I have an email address associated with my ISP account (which address I actually never use) and that one would probably work. And it did.

[clanter]

haven't been able to contact the mothership as those earththings were out working on the outside of little space toy so the mothership hd to hide behind the moon

There appears to be a double fault on Suzy that is masking her condition might be time to get the hammer out and encourage her a little

sure am getting tired of walking the fence line

[sabryant]

See the longer we talk the closer together the truth comes. Because your last sentence is it in a nutshell isn't it. And if you have a horse that requires extreme deep, fine, so long as you and your horse 'out grow' it. But I will also say that I have found that suppling the poll OFTEN results in a broken neck that gives where I wish it wouldn't. Sort of like using a whip that someone has let their horse step on jor closed in the car door, and now it is broken in the middle - No spring in it, just this limp hingy thing. So, I don't do the nose to the chest thing, and I honestly believe that sooner or later, you may discover the shortcomings of that work, but if you eventually GET self carriage and engagement, then you are leagues ahead of most competitive dressage riders. Sad but quite true.

Now, I prefer NOT to discuss Hillary Clayton. I guess you either think she knows something about dressage or you don't. I have read many of her reports and found that often her selection of examples is so flawed that of course the results are flawed. And sometimes objective results are not the entire story - as shown by the discussion during the FEI symposium on "Hyperflexion" - where one study "Proved" that the back has more mobility when in the deep posture - and one participant explained that while you might have increased measured amplitude, it came from the TIGHTENED back following the motions of the withers because of the excessive stretch tightening the ligaments - so while the back "moved" more, it was NOT good dressage. So, I am not always secure in accepting that the McPhail chair's studies give results that support GOOD dressage - because I am not convinced that the researchers Know Good dressage. You probably feel quite differently. Which is why I choose not to discuss the study - because the real debate would be on its validity - which is basically personal opinion. So, believe as you will - and just accept that there are some who are not so swayed by some 'scientific studies'.

I'm not too sure if we are getting close on this issue or not. I said, nose toward the knees, not chin on the chest. I would hope that I would never "outgrow" this on any horse as it is where I do all of my basic's work. I can do it both ways...up or deep...no fad riding here...I find it much easier on the horse and myself to build the topline muscles in a deeper frame. I don't know about those links by HC....what the formula's, axioms, point of references are. I have had them shoved down my throat, in the other directions, from a particular poster here on this board. Then I heard from this same poster that HC trains dressage. So what do I know? Certainly not as much as a vet that trains dressage....not that it hasn't taken me nearly a lifetime to learn it. I'm not into fads, never have been my whole life. I'm very much "into" what makes a horse happy and when deep is trained correctly, it is the best method.

[sabryant]

Holy crap...I just spent the last 20 minutes typing out a well thought out post and my puter ate it :mad:

Here's the gist of it:

Generalizations...UDBBers think COTHERS are mean....COTHERS think UDBBers are a bunch of blow hard odg huggers.

Aren't there really just a few outspoken individuals that fit those descriptions on their respective BB's?

I was one of the jack@sses that thought that way about coth...until about 4 or 5 days ago...once I had spent some time here I changed my mind. It's not fair to generalize like that.

Don't get me wrong, I sleep next to one of my odg books every night...and as a side note...I much happier with them than I ever was sleeping next to the bum I married for 11 years! ;) I'm an odg hugger and proud of it! But that's my prerogative, isn't it?

This whole conversation is just kind of fascinating to me. Maybe I'm just a huge geek. :yes:

I seriously doubt coth will ever crash if it hasn't this week after "the invasion". But if it ever does, I would sincerely hope that a thread would be allowed for refugees. Some of you will just have to get a paid email if you want to play, that's all.;)

Still basenjingling.

I'll just bet you if we all got together in some other sport like volley ball, soccer, whatever, we would love each other! It is that danged ole "opinion" thang that keeps getting in the way. Acually, I love a good discussion about opinions as to training horses...as long as they remain civil.

[eqipoize]

Happened to have a little communique from the boss hoss - who told me, in part,

yes suzy is fine, now. you received a email alert showing a URL that is from an internal network XXXX and everything is in tact and working fine. it will be till Wednesday or Thursday when I get the replacement drive and then get the whole thing back on the rack.

But be assured, the UDBB is alive and well. (hope it was OK that I passed that info along!)

So, hopefully we won't over stay our welcome - Again, I will say, thank you Erin and CoTH for putting up with 'house guests' for such a long time. Company and fish - both start to stink in 3 days! I have tried to click on the links for advertisers as a way of saying Thanks, hope that helps. I would do the dishes and feed the fish, but I don't know where the dish and fish flakes are!

This crash will be a story long told - sort of like the boogers! Hang around long enough and you start swapping tales from 'the old days!'. I actually remember the Y2K crash of USDF that spawned UDBB! I think USDF was the Only thing that suffered from 2000!!!! Hopefully the phyonix will rise again!

[sabryant]

Gee, not like this hasn't happened to me! :lol: Since things have been so slow and wonky on the boards lately, I've started to select and copy my whole post before I hit the "preview post" or "submit reply" buttons, just in case. It's similar to the way I used to save my Word document before I printed it, back in the day when Word was so buggy, not the stable and reliable program it is today. :rolleyes: That way if it goes south, I have it on the clipboard.

Equipoize, thanks for the story! I hadn't heard that one. Re having to have something other than a free email address, I got stuck on this one for a while when I was trying to join UDBB. I had my Yahoo address and my work address - couldn't use the Yahoo address, and I'm not allowed to use my work address for personal purposes. Then I remembered that I have an email address associated with my ISP account (which address I actually never use) and that one would probably work. And it did.

Yeah dlmca, you are a posting maniac now. See, you can do it, and it is a good and funny post too!!

[Beau_Cheval_Rouge]

haven't been able to contact the mothership as those earththings were out working on the outside of little space toy so the mothership hd to hide behind the moon

There appears to be a double fault on Suzy that is masking her condition might be time to get the hammer out and encourage her a little

sure am getting tired of walking the fence line

I think we have a sledge hammer in the garage :winkgrin:

My feet hurt... and dammit if I'm not up to my knees in muck & mud!

[sabryant]

See the longer we talk the closer together the truth comes. Because your last sentence is it in a nutshell isn't it. And if you have a horse that requires extreme deep, fine, so long as you and your horse 'out grow' it. But I will also say that I have found that suppling the poll OFTEN results in a broken neck that gives where I wish it wouldn't. Sort of like using a whip that someone has let their horse step on jor closed in the car door, and now it is broken in the middle - No spring in it, just this limp hingy thing. So, I don't do the nose to the chest thing, and I honestly believe that sooner or later, you may discover the shortcomings of that work, but if you eventually GET self carriage and engagement, then you are leagues ahead of most competitive dressage riders. Sad but quite true.

Now, I prefer NOT to discuss Hillary Clayton. I guess you either think she knows something about dressage or you don't. I have read many of her reports and found that often her selection of examples is so flawed that of course the results are flawed. And sometimes objective results are not the entire story - as shown by the discussion during the FEI symposium on "Hyperflexion" - where one study "Proved" that the back has more mobility when in the deep posture - and one participant explained that while you might have increased measured amplitude, it came from the TIGHTENED back following the motions of the withers because of the excessive stretch tightening the ligaments - so while the back "moved" more, it was NOT good dressage. So, I am not always secure in accepting that the McPhail chair's studies give results that support GOOD dressage - because I am not convinced that the researchers Know Good dressage. You probably feel quite differently. Which is why I choose not to discuss the study - because the real debate would be on its validity - which is basically personal opinion. So, believe as you will - and just accept that there are some who are not so swayed by some 'scientific studies'.

I forgot to add...how can you judge, with any kind of accuracy at all, the FEI symposim that used a green horse to this method of riding. I would dare say that the horse look every-which-way but right! It is muscling that should be built very slowly, not in a matter of seconds. It would prove nothing to me.

[Dressage Art]

Hmm, I started to post on both BBs and them some other horse BBs as well. I didn't find that the COTH and UDBB are so different - I think that UDBB more clean and on COTH there are some posters who love to hate almost everybody - but, wait - there is an "ignore" button that I found that it makes COTH a better place. At the same time COTH is more open minded and diverse to many subjects, at UDBB there are some strong cults and clicks and diversity in opinions or training methods almost all the time punished. In any case, I enjoy both of the BBs and visit both to see if there is a topic that I'm interested in.

[Sabine]

... at UDBB there are some strong cults and clicks and diversity in opinions or training methods almost all the time punished.

Thanks for saying that...you're the first UDBB person- which I recognize that admits to that.
I think the freedom of fairly and civily(sp?) discussing different riding methods that are applied with excellent horsemanship- is the key to MY personal advancement in riding and training horses.
I know how to ride- I would love to learn how to train effectively 'better ' and I have witnessed many excellent trainers. The ability to verbalize and think in 'intellectual exchange of opinions' without recourse- as long as it's civil- is what I seek...it seems to happen on COTH every so often- rather nicely- thanks to some very potent posters- that are for one reason or another not narrowminded or overly prejudiced...

In the end- it is prejudice that stands in our way....:(

[Karoline]

Dressage Art, welcome back. And a big apology from me. Could not get your ride time through Suzy and so have had my crossed my fingers for you since Wed - fingers very stiff now :-). How did Zeena and you do?

[hototrot]

This is going to make me sound very brattish... but I want to be a booger... How sad to have missed the fun! Please when all starts up again, can we do boogers??:yes: :yes:

I am really enjoying the training veins on this thread, seriously interesting, and in a way I'm rather glad that so much has been gotten off various chests about being banned/not allowed on/various old arguments. It's an old chestnut surely, but wherever there is community there's also disagreement. So its been aired and we can move on so that I can continue to learn? Well, not JUST so that I can learn, but...? Cheers!

Boogers!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[valmom]

I'm pretty sure when the boogers were banned they formed their own "Booger Board" somewhere. I don't think I have the address anymore since my last computer crashed and lost all my old favorites list. But, someone must know it!

[Bogey2]

But, someone must know it!

if I told you I'd have to kill you:winkgrin:

[Sannois]

Who's gonna clean all these stalls when y'all go back to your old barn Hmmmmm???:D :D :D
And just look at the ruts walked into the fence line! More hay????:lol: :D
And Who the heck is Suzy??? The server???:eek: :confused:

[4_beatin_it]

I wanna know if the puppy has been found yet?

[zinnniaz]

No, my little Pippin is still gone. WE have heard from people who saw him about five miles away. He went staright through miles of woods and brush into the next town. But nobody could catch him and noone has seen him since sunday. I am going to the shelters today. They say they don't have him but I want to see with my own eyes. Then I will probably drive around and paste up more pictures of him and call for him some more.

[carolprudm]

haven't been able to contact the mothership as those earththings were out working on the outside of little space toy so the mothership hd to hide behind the moon

There appears to be a double fault on Suzy that is masking her condition might be time to get the hammer out and encourage her a little

sure am getting tired of walking the fence line
Perhaps Mark has sent Suzy to the kill pen at New Holland and we have to organize a COTH style rescue to ransome her.:eek:

[clanter]

Now that would be the trick....Suzy goes to France...the lush LOL...or could she go to Japan...some of her parts came from there

[egontoast]

Hey, zinni, good news that your dog has been sighted. A couple of huskies were lost for a few weeks in this area and there was a happy ending eventually thanks to getting the word out and people calling in with sightings. Good luck.

ps all this suzy talk is very confusing since we have our very own defective and absent suzy on this board. Oh suzy, where are you?

[bjrudq]

"but, wait - there is an "ignore" button that I found that it makes COTH a better place."

one of the things i love about this place!

[clanter]

where is that thing?

[BarbB]

I'm pretty sure when the boogers were banned they formed their own "Booger Board" somewhere. I don't think I have the address anymore since my last computer crashed and lost all my old favorites list. But, someone must know it!

the boogers are on ezboard.com
It's been I while since I last visited but I am sure they are still there.

[cinder88]

You're welcome to come to the Booger Board....

But, you have to find us, first!

Mwuhahaha!!!!!

Zabooger

[ironbessflint]

valmom, I'm pretty sure this is what you're looking for:

http://www.hopefulfarm.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

[clanter]

yes they have aboard on the West Coast

[BarbB]

No, my little Pippin is still gone. WE have heard from people who saw him about five miles away. He went staright through miles of woods and brush into the next town. But nobody could catch him and noone has seen him since sunday. I am going to the shelters today. They say they don't have him but I want to see with my own eyes. Then I will probably drive around and paste up more pictures of him and call for him some more.


You HAVE to go look. I had a Shetland Sheepdog that got out once and the pound picked him up but had him labeled as an Aussie x because he was blue merle. They told me they had no Shetland Sheepdogs.
Another time I sold a sable GSD who promptly jumped the fence. Their pound had picked her up and labeled her a wolf hybrid - that was back when THOSE were the fad. They had never seen a sable shepherd.
No telling what someone would call a Basenji....that is what you said, I think. Anyway, yes, go look for yourself. Good luck.

[egontoast]

valmom, I'm pretty sure this is what you're looking for:

http://www.hopefulfarm.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
__________________

NOPE!! Not IT! mwahahahhaaaaaaaaa

[ironbessflint]

:lol: ok :D

[Regular Einstein]

Good luck Zinnia! Hoping you find Mr. Pippin!

[SarMoniet]

The Hopeful Farm board is most definitely NOT the Booger board, but you're still welcome to visit. :)

[tewhann]

Glad there was a citing, Zinna!!!! I have a good feeling about this one!

We need a writer on UDBB to start Suzy stories like the $700 Pony stories here. Is it $700 or $200?

[zinnniaz]

He was sighted on monday morning-- just got a call. That is the most recent sighting so far. So he made it through sunday night. I am going to the NEXT town too. The line he is traveling is straight across country AWAY from our house. He must have gotten his poles mixed up. Poor guy. :( The latest lady said he was on her porch first thing monday am and as soon as she opened the door he hightailed it out of there.

[cinder88]

Could THIS be the Booger Board????

http://www.cafepress.com/thewhitehouse.10930310

[zinnniaz]

I found him! Somone saw the flier and was housesitting for a friend. He was hiding in thier garage but ran from her. She called immediately and I wnt over and she showed me where he went into the woods. He came to me. Really skinny. Lots of ticks. Very subdued but he is HOME and we can nurse him back to health.

So much gratitude to all who helped either by being nice to me in my freaked out state or drawing fliers (m,y daughters), lighting a candle, jingling, praying, and calling him either literally or psychically. All the walking the roads and woods and all the fliers and all the phoinecalls made the difference.

He is sore and a little limpy. I have him resting with food and cozy blankets. Big sigh of relief.

[bjrudq]

WHEW!

big hugs to a bad little basenji!

[mr_miamis_mom]

That's fabulous news Zinnia!!!!

[sugar208]

I found him! Somone saw the flier and was housesitting for a friend. He was hiding in thier garage but ran from her. She called immediately and I wnt over and she showed me where he went into the woods. He came to me. Really skinny. Lots of ticks. Very subdued but he is HOME and we can nurse him back to health.

So much gratitude to all who helped either by being nice to me in my freaked out state or drawing fliers (m,y daughters), lighting a candle, jingling, praying, and calling him either literally or psychically. All the walking the roads and woods and all the fliers and all the phoinecalls made the difference.

He is sore and a little limpy. I have him resting with food and cozy blankets. Big sigh of relief.

AWESOME news zinnniaz!!!!!! Hopefully, the little escape artist got his wandering out of his system. Jingles for a full recovery.

[ironbessflint]

yay!!! So glad to hear he's home!

[HopeHill]

Zinnia - That's so great that he's come home, CONGRATULATIONS:) :D :yes: :D I remember when we lost my GSH, I was on a trip in VT and my MIL combed the neighborhood and called around, turns out he got lost in a snowstorm 5 miles away through the woods another farm found him and captured him, he was only 6 months old but could clear a 4 foot fence:winkgrin:

[dlmca]

Oh Zinnia, I'm so glad he's found!! I bet he won't do that again soon. Maybe. Well, for a while at least! :D Now you can get some sleep tonight.

[partita]

So glad your dog is back! :)

[clanter]

Zinnia,...where the evil one that lead her astray?

[clanter]

Zinnia,...where is the evil one that lead her astray?

[eqipoize]

Happy News! Pippin is home - alive and well - now we need to focus more attention on Suzy and get US home with Her alive and well. Zinnia I KNOW what mental torment you have been through, and I am So Glad you have a happy ending. Tough little buggers those Basenjis! Hug him and yell at him simultaneously!!!!

[Dressage Art]

Zinnia, congratulations, so happy that you found your dog.

Karoline, no problem - I was so busy there - it felt like Championships for me, the same fun, stress and a lot of work. It was my first time at Pebble Beach and it is a breathtaking venue. We did OK the first 2 days, but the scores were very low - I placed second in the class of 6 with the score of 55% and the winning score was 56%. My last 2 days were not so good, b/c we were showing a freestyle at the main arena with the flags and grand stands and Zena thought that the flags will eat her alive and was a very bad girl in that arena, with out going in to the the details of our strugle with flags, we got a 46% on our freestyle the last day - Zena just wanted to get the heck out of there at any cost. That is my new personal lowest score.

[tewhann]

Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[zinnniaz]

Holly, our evil dog, came home without him sunday! We suspect she tried to lose him. ;)

I am bringing him to the vet's in a while to have some scrapes checked. He probably needs antibiotics and painkillers. I just want the boy checked.

Now, you all know-- if Pippin can come back, so can SUZY!!!!!!

[clanter]

Holly, our evil dog, came home without him sunday! We suspect she tried to lose him. ;)

I am bringing him to the vet's in a while to have some scrapes checked. He probably needs antibiotics and painkillers. I just want the boy checked.

Now, you all know-- if Pippin can come back, so can SUZY!!!!!!

suzy will be back tomorrow without question.

but for the pups...we had a problem with a digger and put two foot high woven wire fence on the ground along the the fence line to keep them from digging under the fence

[m&m]

Zinnia, I am so happy for you!!!! I'm sure the little guy will be a little under the weather for a bit, but he's home - I can (maybe) imagine your relief!

I can't find the post to quote it -

"can we start the boogers when we get back?:yes: :yes: " made me spit coffee!

But, sad to say, I think when the boogers started their own board, at least based on my one visit there, they got a little less (ahem) refined!

[zinnniaz]

suzy will be back tomorrow without question.

but for the pups...we had a problem with a digger and put two foot high woven wire fence on the ground along the the fence line to keep them from digging under the fence


We are planning major fence renovations this week and weekend. I don't want my dogs to go through this ever again.

[Xhltsalute]

zinnia - you just made my day!!! WAHOOOOO!!!

[zinnniaz]

zinnia - you just made my day!!! WAHOOOOO!!!

ME TOO. :)

[sabryant]

Zinniaz

So happy for your outcome!! What a relief!

Good for all of the udders. Your board will be back up tomorrow! Yippee for you! It has been nice having you, but I know you will be glad to get back home! Happy posting and adios!

[zinnniaz]

Zinniaz

So happy for your outcome!! What a relief!

Good for all of the udders. Your board will be back up tomorrow! Yippee for you! It has been nice having you, but I know you will be glad to get back home! Happy posting and adios!

Thanks! Since I have broken out of lurk mode here, I will probably post here and there. I do like some of the threads and conversations...

[eqipoize]

YEp - I don't think CoTH will get rid of us quite that easily! We are like backwoods shirttail relatives - we kind of like the hospitality! So some of us will continue to visit! Again, thanks for having us and being so kind about allowing such a long thread!

[Horsedances]

YEp - I don't think CoTH will get rid of us quite that easily! We are like backwoods shirttail relatives - we kind of like the hospitality! So some of us will continue to visit! Again, thanks for having us and being so kind about allowing such a long thread!

I am sure Erin will keep some bottles of champagne for you in the freezer.

[hototrot]

I'd rather like to pop in from time to time as well; I've quite enjoyed some of the training discussion! Terribly stimulating!

And I want to do the booger thing!!!!!!!!!

And being our "poste restante" was hugely kind-- when you're worried about folks and what they're going through, and suddenly communications get interrupted, well, it's hard. So thank you all for your patience in letting us catch up with one another.

Don't know anything about the mass bannings; I must say I haven't experienced anything other than respect on the UDBB.

SO ice up that champagne (or margaritas).

[Horsedances]

Don't know anything about the mass bannings; I must say I haven't experienced anything other than respect on the UDBB.

SO ice up that champagne (or margaritas).

Three new BB's with lovely and very wise people who have been around the block (several times) :yes:

And.......all these posters were banned by His Royal Highness Kram de Losus.

Wake up....because know how and intelligence is not wanted by HRH

[aregard]

I've only made it through half the responses (haven't gotten to the fight yet), but to answer the many who have asked why UDBB,

1. I participate in both boards, actually. And I don't mind the heat over here, too much, except it can get boring. Easily solved: stop reading the thread.

2. UDBB is smaller. I can only hold just so many personalities in my head -- with UDBB, it's a little easier. I think that's the _real_ reason I go there more often.

3. I love the ability to discuss other topics. Horse people are the kind of people I spend my life with, but I don't limit myself to horse topics all the time. UDBB seems more in synch with my life that way.

4. But I do read/post to COTH, too.

[Horsedances]

I've only made it through half the responses (haven't gotten to the fight yet), but to answer the many who have asked why UDBB,

2. UDBB is smaller. I can only hold just so many personalities in my head -- with UDBB, it's a little easier. I think that's the _real_ reason I go there more often.



I have to agree with you. We have Bokt.NL which is the biggest Equestrian Forum in the world. But when you post something it goes down to page 23 within some seconds.

This is also why I like Hopefull Farm BB, because it is small and it feels like a family.

Theo

[Lambie Boat]

I can't figure out the scrolling feature on the Hopefull Farm BB. Only the first sentence shows up, to continue reading I need to scroll, but my AOL thingey pops up. Too bad. I like the vibe on that board, the emoticons and the jewelery.

Manure Pile rocks the Fbomb, so I'm all on that! but it seems like everyone knows each other, live near each other and parties together, so I feel like an intruder.

UDBB rules because people will talk about very personal issues honestly. It's not all about horses all the time

[Karoline]

Great news Zinnia. Did the second dog return as well?

[zinnniaz]

Great news Zinnia. Did the second dog return as well?

Yep-- pages ago! :D She came back after about 21 or 22 hours. Pippin was gone 63. Lots of people helped him get home-- it is really a GOOD story.

[Aylah]

Yahoo...nothing makes you feel more sick than calling after your dogs!!!
I am soooo happy they are home and a little worse for wear.
Don't ya just want to spank em??:no: YES

[hototrot]

We should do either boogers or pink ladies! And I have that song running through myhead as well-- that and, heaven help me, summer lovin! Badum badum badum lalala la! And I am off to ride... poor the Moo. Oh well, gotta listen to "Embraceable You" on the way up-- her walk.

[clanter]

Hototrot

Moo sent me an email saying is no keen about hearing Summer Loving over and over and over and over and over again...he is asking me to find him a green card and SS#

just a heads up

[hototrot]

Hototrot

Moo sent me an email saying is no keen about hearing Summer Loving over and over and over and over and over again...he is asking me to find him a green card and SS#

just a heads up

Nah, My gal is a true-blue Brit! No fear! I promised to take her to Harrods and down Bond street for some shopping and like an exocet, she was there!

[jedders]

Glad to find some of the "refugees" so to speak!

And hototrot, please tell me you at least made an attempt to share your Moon Pies with moo!

sac
*whose house is cleaner than it's ever been*
:D

[mr_miamis_mom]

Good to see you Sac - how is Jedders!

[sugar208]

Sheesh sac we have all been sitting on pins and needles wondering how Jedders is. So what is the latest?

[hototrot]

Glad to find some of the "refugees" so to speak!

And hototrot, please tell me you at least made an attempt to share your Moon Pies with moo!

sac
*whose house is cleaner than it's ever been*
:D
YAAAAAAAAAAY FOR SAC AND JEDDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am SO HAPPY TO SEE YOU!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you soooo much! I've been dying to say that for ages now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I was very good-- the whole family including (especially) Moo enjoyed the Moon Pies! You should have seen her face with them-- upper lip going, eyes shutting! I thought that heaven was in the bag of Corn Nuts-- how scrummy are they-- and the Koolaide! I really don't know how to thank you enough!

Trouble is,now the family wants to move Stateside! And I guess live on snack food!

HOW ARE YOU AND JEDDERS????????
Honestly00 now I've got your address, just keep your eyes posted!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxM

[jedders]

Jedders is--apparently--fine. I decided during the "great meltdown of 2006" (the weekend that he came down sick, again!) that I was not going to worry about it anymore. He was either going to make it or not. All I could do was treat symptomatically anyway so I didn't even bother to send the bloodwork off. I only gave him the banamine the one day and a half a dose at that. The swelling came and went, but never abcessed. And two to three days later I heard my husband's horse give a couple of good coughs...nothing could have ever sounded as sweet as those coughs! My husband thought I was nuts for being excited that his horse was sick, but it appears as though the impossible happened. Jedders tooth issue caused the swelling and the fever was a coincidental result of an unrelated issue.

It is never a dull day around that horse. And he's not even under saddle yet. :winkgrin:

How's everyone else doing?

sac

[clanter]

Walking the fence line nickering at every passing human…. looking for the way home

[carolprudm]

<SNIP>

How's everyone else doing?

sac
Well the Gunsmoke semen that was supposed to arrive at Kinko's at (:30 arrived at 12:30. Had to postpone my vet apt so by the time the vet got here my mare had ovulated. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
It's been a horrible year.

[Karoline]

Hello Miss Jedders, I am so happy Jeddaih is doing well. I think he will be a doll under saddle and bonded to you like no other. Just wait to back him until he ils old enough- 3 1/2 to 4 based on bone formation and have a blast before then doing all kind of silly things with him.

What happened to the rescued Arab Touring and I met? Was a lovely horse.

[jedders]

carolprudm--it seems as though most of my breeder friends have been having challenges this year. We're breeding for our first baby and I was disappointed when the mare didn't settle after she was bred the first time. And of course that call came the day that Jedders fell ill again. Day 16 after she was bred the second time is next Tuesday. I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed until then, so I can do the same for you in the meantime. At least I don't have to wait for delivery at Kinko's though, that part has got to be miserable. I've been driving a couple of hundred miles round trip to pick up the semen myself which isn't much fun either, but I couldn't imagine trying to coordinate with a shipper AND the vet. :(

If she is in foal...I don't think I can stand the wait. This is going to be one of the longest winters EVER!

Karoline! Hope you've been well! The rescue Arab is fat and much happier these days. I signed our ownership of him over to the friend that helped rescue him and he is permanently on "loan" to her niece who thinks the sun rises and sets with him. She and her friends ride him and spend the rest of their day brushing him for HOURS at a time. And he just stands there with big doe-y eyes. It was the best possible placement for him I think we could ever hope for. And if her niece ever tires of him, he has a home for life with my friend.

[hoopoe]

I am an equal opportunity poster at several boards

one nice thing about here is the ignore button.

Feel free to stay past UDBB opening.

We need new blood.

[valmom]

I'm glad Jedders is OK now. It's amazing how much worries babies can be- even once they get older.

I'm also feeling like I'm pacing the fenceline. And it's raining (again/still). I have more mud (again/still). I could be depressed if I weren't so determined not to be.

[carolprudm]

Most of the time Fed Ex is reliable. This time they blew it. I suppose there is a slight chance, Lotty's cervix was still open. Bred Miss Money Pit LC for 5 cycles, we'll check her the 24th. Bonnie seems to be in foal, her foal this may was stillborn at 360 days.

[valmom]

I think the weather has been so bad almost everywhere that the mares are confused this year. An awful lot of people seem to be having a hard time. I'm really glad my barn is full and I didn't breed last year and am not this year, either.

[sabryant]

I am an equal opportunity poster at several boards

one nice thing about here is the ignore button.

Feel free to stay past UDBB opening.

We need new blood.


I'm totally agreeing with this! It is fun to have new personalities and different views!

[zinnniaz]

You all may be stuck with us! UDBB is still silent. I'd be interested to know how many new members have signed on here...

[Nancy's mom]

Well, I've been lurking here since Friday, and finally succumbed. Been clicking my heels but it just isn't working. ZinniaZ, glad the wayward pups are home. Don't you have a fab new horse with a foofy mane? How's he doing?

I've been busy with all kinds of stuff...both important (like putting in some job applications and actually riding my horse! Who'da thought it?) and random. I need another bb like I need another...another...horse, but I have enjoyed touring the place.

[Trotsky]

Well the Gunsmoke semen that was supposed to arrive at Kinko's at
I was having a bit of trouble with Gunsmoke, semen and Kinko's all in the same sentence . . . I know, I know, exactly what is meant here but my poorly wired brain had a few moments of utter confusion -->

Gunsmoke ... TV ... Matt Dillon ... that big buckskin
Semen ... well, semen ... hearty swimmers
Kinko's ... photocopies

Whhhaaaattttt?????

:D:D:D

[clanter]

I was having a bit of trouble with Gunsmoke, semen and Kinko's all in the same sentence . . . I know, I know, exactly what is meant here but my poorly wired brain had a few moments of utter confusion -->

Gunsmoke ... TV ... Matt Dillon ... that big buckskin
Semen ... well, semen ... hearty swimmers
Kinko's ... photocopies

Whhhaaaattttt?????

:D:D:D


just a guess but maybe the FedEx got left off the FedEx-Kinko's

[CACUAT_X]

I sure miss you guys :)
it's me Draftmom

[Nancy's mom]

Gunsmoke reminds me of something funny that happened today....

Nancy & I went on a little adventure...great fun. We rode past a quiet house on our trailride, went on about a half mile further, then turned around and came back. As we approached the house, Nancy balked a bit at the music that was blaring from the open window. Was it? Could it be? Yes! It was...the theme to Rawhide. I had to laugh...what was the likelihood of that happening...surely, someone played that for my benefit--ya think? We had ourselves a nice hand gallop to strains of Rawhide in the distance.

[m&m]

"We had ourselves a nice hand gallop to strains of Rawhide in the distance.[/QUOTE]

Love it!!!!

How is everyone. I've been mostly lurking. This is like staying in a luxury hotel - so nice, so friendly, so special, so kind.....yet one stills feel kinda homesick.

Like Clanter, walking the fenceline.....

[clanter]

"We had ourselves a nice hand gallop to strains of Rawhide in the distance.

Love it!!!!

How is everyone. I've been mostly lurking. This is like staying in a luxury hotel - so nice, so friendly, so special, so kind.....yet one stills feel kinda homesick.

Like Clanter, walking the fenceline.....[/QUOTE]

watch out it is an electric fence

[Jmc]

watch out it is an electric fence

:lol::lol: With land mines!

[m&m]

16,165 views of this post- makes a herdbound person feel a little less alone in the world!

[clanter]

and don't stop to pet the little doggy either, it has teeth...keep all your hands inside the car please

[dlmca]

Hi Draftmom - it's me, Deedee (lifts mask and peers out from underneath). The ice machine on the 3rd floor sucks but the one on the 4th floor is pretty good. You can take a shortcut to the pool by going down the back stairs and around the corner, if you don't want to walk through the lobby in your bathing suit and coverup. Room service is pretty good (but pricey as usual), if you order be sure to ask for Sergio. ;)

I've read everything in the paperback library, did you bring any books?

[Jmc]

mmmmmmmm.....sergio (said in badly imitated Homer Simpson voice)

[Dalfan]

And just when I'd kicked the withdrawal symptoms, I find this place. Oh, what to do.:no: Love the smilies:)

[dlmca]

mmmmmmmm.....sergio (said in badly imitated Homer Simpson voice)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[hototrot]

head 'em up, ride 'em out, head 'em out, ride 'em up RAWHIDE!

Well, it's better than Summer Lovin!:lol: :lol: :lol:

I wonder if Moo woud like a Wild West theme for today????:yes:

I got spurs that jingle jangle jingle.....

[bumknees]

It looks like susie is badly hung over as she is still not answering the door.
Havent read the entier 20 pgs. Clanter do you have a remedy up there on the mother ship?
I wanted to snuggle down and as a few questions yesterday but susie was nowhere ot be found.. And Im not so sure how well a Rotator Cuff question would fly here. I seein my future doing well catching up to others who have made the 10,000 club as I was told by Dr months and months and months and months ( I tolde him that was enough thank you very much) of recovery and Pt before he would concider alowing my to even think of gong near a horse....
mmm big tough army dude dh wadda guy just brought me my coffee...

[Mike Matson]

A message from the UDBB Mother Ship:

"JULY 13:: Sometime today, I expect to have to have the server back on the rack and the website running again."

Prepare for boarding!!

[carolprudm]

Gunsmoke is a Connemara stallion
http://www.connemaras.com/wsbrs2.html

[bjrudq]

he is GORGEOUS. and what a great husband he would make for my friend's beautiful connemara mare!

but shipped semen is SUCH a pain. i tried it with two of mymares and never got anywhere. of course, the stallion owner wasn't very cooperative and that didn't help.

for that reason i would never breed again except to a local boy.

i hope your girl settles.

[clanter]

Gunsmoke is a Connemara stallion]


he is a beauty...but buckskins have an attitude.. we have two (one Morgan one Grade...second grade I think...)and they believe the world is theirs. Wonderful proformance horses

[carolprudm]

I've been very impressed with the stallion station that stands him.
http://www.amethystacres.com/index.html I have also dealt with SO's from h3!!
And if I can I like to use a repro clinic (Laurel Inc, in Marshall, VA) but it just didn't work out this time and I decided to use the farm vet.

But Fed EX problems do happen. And LC problems. And miss communications between collecting vet and SO.

[Ames]

hey clanter - is it really attitude, or more like ego "I am beautiful, be hypnotized by my exotic looks and watch me, wherever I go and whatever I do?" I know my boy thinks he's god's gifts to ponies everywhere - male or female!

[Aylah]

A BIG thanks COTH for the hospitality. I really enjoyed this BB I will be back to peruse those gems of wisdom on occasion. I have a new appreciation for eventers and your favorites section was a hoot.
Bye for now

Waiting at the loading dock for the mad rush home.

[clanter]

you are most likely right... both of ours ...the Morgan more so... has A Can Do Attitude big time and just get out of my way and I will show you...

When we take him to Nationals and there are 1300 or 1400 Bays and Chestnuts and maybe three or four "others" ... he can just walk down around the barns with a chip on his shoulder... he is hoot

The other is a mare that was rescued off a 4H summer riding program when she was too hard to handle for those kids.... we have just worked her from ground up and she is coming around...but there is this I am different air about her

[HopeHill]

Hey Clanter ... what are the Morgan Nationals like???:confused: I've got a great Morgan here in WNY that I've been working with and is doing quite beautifully. Do they have dressage at the Nationals? Do you know what it takes to qualify?

[m&m]

he is a beauty...but buckskins have an attitude.. we have two (one Morgan one Grade...second grade I think...)and they believe the world is theirs. Wonderful proformance horses


Clanter, if it were not for a buckskin morgan, I would have stopped riding 25 years ago. I owned a horse that was scared of jumping, and my coach kept having us try - I didn't know enough yet to stand up to my coach, (or fire her!) - so the horse and I ended up incredibly traumatised about jumping. At the time I was a hunt seat girl, and thought there was no point to riding without jumping. (People do change, don't they?????)

The one smart thing my coach did was to have me start riding John. Now, he did have that buckskin attitude - I wanted to put a sign on his stall that said "I'm John and you're not!" - but my coach wouldn't let me. But I rode him, and once I pointed him at the jumps he just took over and told me to settle back and hang on and he'd take care of the rest - and he did. I have pictures to this day that fill me with embarrassment/gratitude. I never did learn to jump well until I switched instructors, and after learning to jump (relatively) well I fell in love with dressage, and my idea of jumping became an occassional 2' log pile in the woods, but to my dying day I will remember the wonderful buckskin in my past and hope he ended his days peacefully with lots of love and carrots.

[hototrot]

I have NEVER known a bad dun (buckskin). And this is just a peculiar one of those things-- I've never known any one that knows of a bad dun. This stallion's breeder is very well known over here as well. Lovely chap, lovely choice!!

[carolprudm]

I have NEVER known a bad dun (buckskin). And this is just a peculiar one of those things-- I've never known any one that knows of a bad dun. This stallion's breeder is very well known over here as well. Lovely chap, lovely choice!!
I have a dun (buckskin) mare who is a delight. She's almost 30 years old and no one has ever managed to fall off her. I just hope the Fed Ex delay didn't mess things up.
It's been a bad year....time for things to turn around

[hototrot]

I have a dun (buckskin) mare who is a delight. She's almost 30 years old and no one has ever managed to fall off her. I just hope the Fed Ex delay didn't mess things up.
It's been a bad year....time for things to turn around

A heartfelt amen to that! (and can I see a piccie of her??? pleeeeze? Had a look through your photos-- excellent stuff!)

[Ja Da Dee]

I have NEVER known a bad dun (buckskin). And this is just a peculiar one of those things-- I've never known any one that knows of a bad dun. This stallion's breeder is very well known over here as well. Lovely chap, lovely choice!!


Dun and Buckskin are two different colors... similar looking, can be both, but are not the same color.

I've known a nutcase buckskin Morgan. I also know a wonderful dun han/tb.

[4_beatin_it]

You guys remember my dilemma about going to Greece or going to my program interviews?

And then I didn't get in?

Well......

Drumroll please......

They are 98% sure of funding for 6 more students and I was by fluke at home this AM to receive a phonecall offering me a seat to start in august.

So, my loss of a trip to Greece seems to have been a gamble that is paying off.

Still not quite sure it is real yet...I am not going to believe it is until I have paid my tuition and received a letter confirming my enrolment...but what a way to start the ball rolling!!!!!!!!

This is what happy people look like LOL (At the Calgary Stampede)

[mzpeepers]

Drumroll please......


YAY for you!!!!!

[hototrot]

You guys remember my dilemma about going to Greece or going to my program interviews?

And then I didn't get in?

Well......

Drumroll please......

They are 98% sure of funding for 6 more students and I was by fluke at home this AM to receive a phonecall offering me a seat to start in august.

So, my loss of a trip to Greece seems to have been a gamble that is paying off.

Still not quite sure it is real yet...I am not going to believe it is until I have paid my tuition and received a letter confirming my enrolment...but what a way to start the ball rolling!!!!!!!!

This is what happy people look like LOL (At the Calgary Stampede)

THAT IS FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!!!!!! HURRAH!!!!!!! I am so happy for you!!

[sugar208]

They are 98% sure of funding for 6 more students and I was by fluke at home this AM to receive a phonecall offering me a seat to start in august.

So, my loss of a trip to Greece seems to have been a gamble that is paying off.

Still not quite sure it is real yet...I am not going to believe it is until I have paid my tuition and received a letter confirming my enrolment...but what a way to start the ball rolling!!!!!!!!

This is what happy people look like LOL (At the Calgary Stampede)

I am so doing a HAPPY DANCE for you!!!!!!!!! To give up your trip and not get in was heartbreaking. I will cross my fingers, dog's paws, horse's hooves that all goes smoothly for you.

[Xhltsalute]

I've always liked Gunsmoke, carol. Beeeeeaaautiful boy! Keeping fingers crossed you get that shipment.

[4_beatin_it]

Gunsmoke is fabulous looking, and I love his sire too.

Fingers crossed that the great Gods of postage are smiling down on your semen LOLOL

[clanter]

Chris..that's wonderful

--------------

regarding Morgan Nationals ... I need to check about the dressage part we have been in Western Pleasure and working Hunter for years seventeen I think...

Duns/Buckskins are a totally different animal ..they seem to like each other but are always trying to out do the other

There is really an air of self confidence about them that they know they are different therfore they act differently...as they trot off flicking the hoofs , turn square up looking back and say...I am pretty good aren't I...they are hoot

[clanter]

Suzy has been seen by the paparazzi leaving The Beatty Ford Clinic under her own power.

She was assisted into a cab for the ride home and appeared to be in good sprits (Jack Daniels was there to help)

She is supposed to head to work and should be there in a bit

[tewhann]

Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[carolprudm]

he is a beauty...but buckskins have an attitude.. we have two (one Morgan one Grade...second grade I think...)and they believe the world is theirs. Wonderful proformance horses
I got Honey when she was 18 months old but she must have spent that time in Catholic school. If you tell her she is a BAD GIRL she just about cries.

I'll have to see if I have an old picture of her, she's pushing 30 and not as beautiful as she used to be.

[clanter]

carol...must be that back eastern influence on the poor dear...out here in the wild west they have to be a little on the cocky side to stay alive

But I know what you mean, I have a little Bay Morgan Lippitt mare that is the same as yours...she will put head in the corner and flick her tail... (I wasn't that bad...really I wasn't...flicking the tail all along.... she is a funny)

[clanter]

Hey Clanter ... what are the Morgan Nationals like???:confused: I've got a great Morgan here in WNY that I've been working with and is doing quite beautifully. Do they have dressage at the Nationals? Do you know what it takes to qualify?


Judges this year are
FRAN DEARING ...................... Magnolia, TX
WILLIAM WOODS..........................Ocala, FL

CLASSES NOT REQUIRING QUALIFICATION
Dressage, Level 2 & above

[hototrot]

Dun and Buckskin are two different colors... similar looking, can be both, but are not the same color.

I've known a nutcase buckskin Morgan. I also know a wonderful dun han/tb.

Blimey, I always thought they were the same colour... just an English v American terminology thing. Sooo, then what's the difference between them?