Rothina does it yet again-LAME! Update-Abscess broke but still lame

[horse_poor]

After one of the more craptacular weeks I have had in a long time (and yes I know, it is only Wednesday) I get a call at noon from the BO saying Rothina is lame in the back left.

She says no tendons seem to big, there is no heat, etc., and she suspects an abscess. Luckily, the farrier happens to be there and she says he will look at her.

Friend from the barn calls and says farrier dug as far as he could for an abscess, did not find one, and suspects it is either a bruise or an abscess brewing deeper down. She is reportedly not three legged lame, but definitely lame and sensitive to hoof testers on the outter edge of her sole up by the frog/heel. Farrier says to wait it out and see if 1) an abscess pops out, or 2) bruise resolves itself. He says I can soak it if I want.

I have not had to deal with an abcess in years. Two other horses have abcesses at the barn right now-something in the water??

I am stuck at work and cannot get out there until later, which is driving me crazy! So my question is this: if it is indeed an abcess, how long before it rears its ugly head? And if it is a bruise, how long before it goes away? I am sure it depends from horse to horse, but I guess my main concern is, how long do I give it before I get Dr. Hottie out to investigate something further? I am relieved her tendons show no injury, but I do worry about suspensory, etc. injury.

And the even bigger question is: is it at all possible for this horse to go longer than 6 months without doing something to make herself lame? *tearing my hair out*

[EqTrainer]

She is so gifted :winkgrin:

I would do the Animaltex poultice pad after a good long soaking in hot water and see what happens. Darn her. Has your checkbook just recovered or had you scheduled something - heck, even just scheduling a ride might be enough to make her lame these days, huh?

Horses!

[horse_poor]

No, checkbook has not recovered-it just provided my car with complete new back brakes. However, one of girls at the barn just started half leasing her, effective on Sunday. So, that I am sure why she is lame. She has great timing.

The last time I used the Animalintex pads, I was not impressed. Had more luck with packing the hoof with wet bran/epsom salts and wrapping it in a diaper.

But now, I just sit and wait, for something to either happen (abcess blows) or not happen (bruise goes away).

Just the other night while talking to the owner of one of the other abcessing horses I said "I have not had to deal with an abcess in forever..." :sigh:

[EqTrainer]

Just the other night while talking to the owner of one of the other abcessing horses I said "I have not had to deal with an abcess in forever..." :sigh:

What on earth were you thinking?!!! She heard you and promptly found a rock to grind her foot onto!

[ChocoMare]

Oy vey :rolleyes: Never a dull moment with that thar mare!


Anyway, I borrowed this from Misty Blue:

To bring out an abcess fast, use your favorite draw (epsom salt paste or icthymol, etc) and pack the hoof with it. Then cover the draw with a piece of sheet/pillowcase/old t-shirt/whatever and stick a thermacare heat wrap pad on the bottom. Add diaper, vet wrap or duct tape or however you finish wrapping a hoof and then turn out in a small paddock or round pen with hay strewn everywhere. Walking around instead of standing still and munching hay seems to help get that abcess moving. The Thermacare head pad keeps the draw moist and hot for 8 hours...makes it like soaking a hoof for 8 straight hours in hot water without having to stand in a bucket that long or keep the hoof soaking wet that long.



And this from Four Mares:

If you have a natural foods store or a store that carries homopathic treatments get some Calc. Floricae. Give 8 tablets a day. You can also add Silica in the same dose. The best way to give it is to dissolve it in a syringe of water and squirt it into your horses mouth. But you can also just toss it in the horses grain.

[horse_poor]

I have a feeling that this is indeed an abcess but it will not rear its ugly head for several days--will def. give the Thermacare dealio a try-I wonder what is the longest you can keep it on?

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

This may not help you much...what really helped Ted's abcess last January (which brewed as I developed bronchitis, thank you very much, and he lost the right front shoe but got an abcess on the left hind) - cold mud.

Right now, we have sun baked desert in the pasture, not cold mud. Possibly hose down and chill a small area? Rothina deserves no less.

[horse_poor]

Geek-like she would stand in it :no: Why would she do anything that is good for her?

The girl half leasing her soaked her this afternoon and she was reportedly good.

I am hoping I will know better tomorrow what the deal is.

[dauntless]

I consider myself to be the tragic queen of abscesses, having dealt with three since Christmas.

Hot animalntex covered in epsom salts has ended up being my favourite draw. Worked super super quickly.

My biggest issue was keeping the hoof wrapped. I kept him in a round pen in the hopes that the movement would push out the pus. I did animalintex, then vetwrap, then (and here was my winner) a big square of a camping tarp. After this, I put aprox 4 layers of duct tape in the shape of a horse shoe. On top of that, I did about another four layers of duct tape that covered the entire sole of the hoof - alternating vertically and horizontally. Before I finished, I did another several strips of tape across the toe. Lastly, I wraped the outside of the hoof with duct tape to catch all the little ends. I could keep this on for 48 hourse which I was very proud of!

[EqTrainer]

Dauntless, you deserve an award for that!

[goeslikestink]

you know if a horse was lame in hind leg doesnt mean to say its an abcess waiting to pop -- and altho our fartriers are different to yours yeap i can say that as so far i have no trust in the usa farriering if i was out there bbut big but
why let him dig a hole in foot when nothing there and then say he cant find anything--
for exsample -- my raspberry she went lame on front olong time ago and she had a shoe on -- i called a vet out but by the time he was due she had gottenover it -- but to late to cancell so went ahead with the vet--

now this vet of out of my practice and was knida new-- so he comes cant find anything i say thats ok didnt espect you as shes now sound but just wanted conformation ( now i knew she was sound and like isaid was to late to cancel appointment)

so he he took her shoe of at first i didnt reaslise what he was doing and he said i think its under the shoe -- ok i say-- next thing i looks over rasps neck and was shocked to see what he had done to her foot-- so i told him stop

and then i said right go back to the surgery iam not happy with what you have done to my mare all i wanted was conformation and you in return have butchered her fooot to point she bleeding now she is lame-

i did to report him have the senior partner come out and explained to him what happen plus i had piccys - and he waived my fee and addressed her foot himself -- since then i dont have indians i only have the cheif..

my point is that taught me a very good lesson if its lame to wait
see what happens dont go jumping in thinking its abcess all the time
could be something completely different-- and now like me you propbably have ahole to look after becuase it lame -- but you havent got the real issue of the orignal lameness

which could be anything from a kick out in field or a stumble to twist or strian a mussle - - anything

[Appassionato]

Tis the season for abcesses I'm afraid. The Belgian has another one, although his always hapen to the fronts. He crawls a little like a caterpillar right now, poor guy.

You can try soaking it, but if your horse already has kinda soft feet, I would avoid soaking it due to causing softer feet. I would just use your fav drawing concoction and let time do it's thing.

[horse_poor]

It appears her hoof is sensitive for about a two inch line along the edge of the crevice to her frog on the outside, starting at the pointy end of the frog going back towards the heel. She is not shod in the back and when she walks, she will put the foot down but pick it up quickly again. So, I shall go stock up on vet wrap, epsoms, and diapers-I already pulled out my giant wheel-o-duct-tape. :rolleyes:

Cannot figure out why three horses have bruises/abscesses at the barn. According to the farrier, no other barns are having problems. The ground was semi hard until we got a ton of rain this past weekend. We now just need a horse to come up with a bruise/abscess in the hind right and we will have all four legs covered. :mad:

Stink-I would not have had the farrier dig if he had not been able to pinpoint an area on her sole that was sore. He only dug a little bit to see if he could find any yuck or even redness indicating a bruise. Her leg was/is cool and tight and there is no indication of any soft tissue injury. And when a huge sudden lameness comes on without any indication of soft tissue damage, I tend to think there is something cooking in the hoof. When she bowed her tendon, she was only so slightly off at the walk and I do not think any one not familiar with her would have noticed it. When she was pulled outo f the pasture yesterday, she was obviously off on that leg at the walk, even to an uneducated eye.

App, I am hesitant to soak a whole lot due to her having typical TB feet. Although, for a TB, she has pretty good feet. I think I will stick mainly with a bran/epsom hoof packing.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

horse_poor, while Ted has pretty decent hooves for a TB, I was soaking sometimes twice a day (yes, in bitter cold January, followed by a wicked case of bronchitis). Didn't seem to mess with him. He is on MVP's biotin 22X.

He lost a shoe in May, but the ground was fine and so no ouchies. I suspect it was a bruise from the weird rocky shapes the muddy ground froze into. In your case - a branch from a storm? A rock? Aliens? Petrhap's Rothina's manicurist (NOT the farrier) didn't autoclave her cuticle thingies?

Unless...does she get extra treats when ouchy? These TBs are very smart, I tell you.

I soaked epsom, with a bit of the lysol, then icthamol and poultice. Not like it stayed on, but my efforts were with the best of intentions. And followed by cold mud.

[goeslikestink]

bran good do it as hot as you can get it then see what happens

[horse_poor]

Talked with the farrier at noon today-he said he strongly suspects it is NOT an abscess and is likely a bruise. He has cautioned me about a lot of soaking sense her soles are soft to begin with and a lot of soaking will make them softer. He is suggesting the sit and wait option, which I HATE. So, I am leaving it be for now.

I asked why so many horses with bruises-none of the others have had an abscess blow so he is suspecting bruises in all of them. He thought the stomping from flies combined with the hard ground is the culprit. Which is odd because there seems to be less flies than last year. :confused:

Geek-she is a pretty honest mare and does not get treats on a regular schedule. If she shows that it hurts, it has to hurt A LOT.

[EqTrainer]

I think Geek was joking... :lol: your horse is a legend these days!

If it is just a bruise, he is right. Odd place for one tho'. I would ask him if she had any hoof wall separation there. Did you say inside, or outside? Any flare there? I have seen rim bruises from shoes like that but she's not shod. Hmmm. Very odd.

GLS - we don't really have bran here like you do in the UK.. bummer huh?!!

[horse_poor]

If you are looking at her sole, the ouchy area is from the "triangle" part of the frog and runs about two inches along the outside of the frog "crevice" on the side to the outside. Make sense?

I am sure if Rothina figured out ouchiness=treats she would be all over a new drama career.

[horse_poor]

OK quick question...would Sore-No-More on her sole help if it was put on and wrapped? I really cannot stand to sit and do NOTHING! :sigh:

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

what about toughener if it's a bruise (to prevent further outbreaks)?

Sole paint? ----it's what..iodine and...phenol? Shoot. I forget.

[JumpingPaints]

Only on COTH are discussions of mundane horse care issues so entertaining!!!!

If it is a bruise, Sore No More should help, because it contains arnica, which helps heal bruising. You may want to pick some arnica tabs up at the granola stop to give her orally as well.

[horse_poor]

Ya know, I do not even know where the closest granola store is :confused:

Maybe I will put some SNM on her-at least it will make me feel better.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

how's she doing today? any improvement?

[horse_poor]

I have not dragged my ass out into the thunderstorm to make the 45 minute drive to the barn yet. But, I have not received a call saying she only has three legs which is good.

Everyone from the barn is at a dressage show in Mason City and I did not get to go, so I am pouting. Not that I could have taken Rosina, even if she was not lame. We are not allowed at off site shows yet. :confused:

A friend's horse with a similar bruise was s'posed to go and when she was trying to decide if she should take another horse, I offered up Rosina (before she went lame as well). She said, and I qoute, "Uh, Molly, training level has CANTERING in it. Rosina does not canter nicely, alone, or with others."

:sigh:

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Don't worry. Soon, Rothina will be kicking a$$.

[horse_poor]

Well, it is not good. She is three legged lame. When standing still, she will not put weight ont hat foot. While walking, if you can call it that, she hobbles, but gets a bit better after a few steps. I had flashbacks of trying to walk Aero out to the round pen to put him down as I was trying to walk her up to the barn.

I soaked it and packed it with SNM/Epsom/Bran. As soon as I had it packed, she kicked and all of the stuff in her hoof went flying. So I repacked it, wrapped it in cotton sheeting, vet wrap, and half a roll of duct tape.

It HAS to be an abscess. I have never seen a horse get this lame from a bruise, and get progressively worse...

[Barnfairy]

Oh dear. It surely does sound like an abscess. Ouch!

Have you been having the same crappy wet weather that we have in the northeast? All this rain is resulting in soft hooves that bruise and abscess easily.

I've had good luck with the epsom soak / magna paste hoof pack routine.

Better yet, since I started using Keratex hoof hardener a year ago (not just on the hoof walls, but on the soles as well) all my horses' hooves are staying nice and hard despite all the monsoons. Yeah, I know, Keratex is expensive, but it goes a l-o-n-g way, even with my three horses.

[evenstar]

An abcess gets worse before it gets better. A bruise just gradually gets better. Anything else (check ligament, tendon, whatever), and I'd really think you'd be seeing some other symptoms - heat, swelling, holding up the leg, and so forth. I would probably call for a consult with the vet if things didn't start to improve by the end of the weekend...

[horse_poor]

Tendons, etc. seem ok. Of course, I cannot get a good look/feel because she will not put all of her weight on that leg. But from what I can tell, she looks ok in that aspect. She has a stong digital pulse in that leg, although I cannot really feel a difference in heat between the two hooves. She is holding the leg up, and I have thought about ligaments, and other non tendon issues but there is no swelling anywhere.

We have not had a lot of rain, which of course leads to hard ground. Last weekend we had torrential downpours.

I am trying to decide if I should do an epsom/bran/flax polutice in a piece of tarp, or do the thermacare patch.

I just feel so badly for her. She hurts so bad. :(

[evenstar]

When I've suspected an abcess, I've done a 20 minute epsom salts soak, followed by an epsom salts/iodine diaper wrap on the hoof (lots of duct tape to keep it all together).
Jingling that poor Rothina comes around soon.

[horse_poor]

Just talked to someone from the barn who has seen Rothina every day since this started. She said Rothina apears to be the lamest today since she was showing any lameness. (She was able to spot this just from watching her in the pasture. Evidently they were turned out in the x country course and her friends thought it would be a great idea to try and eat one of the jumps. Poor Rothina could not participate because 1) it took her so long to gimp to them from across the pasture that the jump eatting appeal had worn off and 2) she has not front teeth with which to eat a jump.)

So, today is day 5 and she is getting worse each day, so it HAS to be an abscess, right. As much as I hate abscesses, I would rather it be that than a ligament issue. And so far, according to the equine magic 8 ball, all signs are pointing to probable.

So, going to go with the bran/flax/epsom mixture in a diaper. I am sure she will be thrilled to drag a soaking wet squishy diaper around on her foot. I think I have small diapers at the barn. Can someone remind me exactly how the diaper goes on? It has been forever since I did this-do I put it on toe to heel or sideways? :confused:

I really want to give her some Bute to help with the pain, but IIRC the jury is split down the middle about Bute for an abscess. On one hand, the pain relief will encourage weight to be put on the hoof to help push this SOB out, but I have also heard that it is not a good thing (cannot recall why it is not a good thing, but that it is not. I think it was something about inflammation needed to help push the ooze out)

I just feel so so so badly for her. She really is a stoic mare and for to show this much pain must mean it REALLY hurts. She stands and holds that leg balanced on the toe and then picks it up and swishes her tail at it then turns to look at it as if she is saying "You Bastard!" And cannot keep up with the cool mares she so badly wants to be friends with.

Poor, poor, Rothina. :no:

[evenstar]

Late in the day to respond, but I always have done toe to heel for the diaper on my girl. and LOTS of duct tape. And sometimes also vet wrap, since my girl is out 24/7 (Could keep her in, but there's something about the screaming, rearing, and bouncing in the stall that makes me think that's just not the way to go...).
Also, no bute. You want to see when it gets better, and you want to be able to tell if there is no improvement. Abcess could be really deep, but I'd be concerned if it doesn't resolve in another couple of days. At least do a phone consult with the vet.

[horse_poor]

Today she is the same as yesterday-dead lame. However, after probing with hoof testers and a hoofpick, it appears the sore area has moved from the side of the frog area to the toe area. So maybe it is getting ready to break. *hoping* I wrapped it in the corner of a canvas type feed bag filled with bran/epsom/flax and covered it in duct tape, hoping it will draw this SOB out. There is not a strong digital pulse today.

Dr. Hottie is out of town until July 10th and I do not trust any of the other vets in this area. :sigh: But, if worse comes to worse, I will have to call one of them out. Bleh.

I am going to have the farrier come out and take a look see the beginning of the week. At least maybe he can pinpoint where the sore area is-I am hopeless with hoof testers-I seem to need to more hands to hold the hoof and hoof testers.

Rothina is losing her patience as a patient and today's soaking involved holding up another leg to keep the bad foot in the bucket and with bran poultice all over me.

I felt so bad making her walk from the pasture to the barn :(

Today is day 6, day 2 of three legged lameness.

Her frog is getting rubbery from the soaking, which worries me.

And I am trying to think what else this lameness could be. We got her to put all her weight on the bad foot and looked at tendons and they are all tight and cold. What else can bring on such a progressive lameness? I have very little to no experience with ligament issues.

[Beethoven]

I still vote Abcesses. My guy started out 3 legged lame. I was so worried because I still have no idea how he got an abcesses considering he had a pad on the hoof it was on. He picked up something the week or two before when he has pulled that shoe. So of course, I freak out call vet. Having owned horses for 10 years of my life and never having an abcesses I was very worried tho vet was not. Well we go onto pull shoe and do magna paste pack and wrap for awhile. He gets a little better. yay! Abcesses is popping, but o no it comes back because apparently not all popped yet. Ug, this went on for a whole month and he finally ended up on antibotics and finally popped and finally sound! Ug, my first abcesses and a bad one at that and just a day or so before I was gloating how I had never had a horse with an abcesses. No longer will I do that.

So, I say abcesses still. I hope it pops soon. Jingling for Rothina!

[EqTrainer]

Abcess.

Try the Animaltex again, really, it is the ticket. Soak in it HOT water, no epsom salts, just hot water and then wet the pad a little bit and put it over that entire side of her foot from the coronet band wrapped around the side and toe. Vet wrap, duct tape.

Your farrier may end up scraping her sole a bit towards the toe and seeing it go berserk, that was my most recent abcess experience. DEESGUSTING. But gone. I would not let anyone dig for it. I just say no to digging!

[horse_poor]

Ugh. I HATE Animaltex pads, I have never had luck with them and just wound up spending a ton of money for something that did not help. However, that was the abscess from hell that Aero almost had surgery for, and was on his cor. band-almost pastern, so maybe it would work in this situation.

I am not hip on digging either. BUT, if it is as close to the toe as it appears, maybe just a rasp or two will get this thing going. Or if he can even pinpoint where it is. I feel a little encouragement that it seems to have moved towards the toe. But I do not want any digging.

I HATE not being able to do something to help her feel better. For me, doing nothing is not an option. I sat on a stool with her hoof in my lap, staring at the sole, looking for something, anything. No sign of a bruise, no sign of a soft area ready to pop-there is a blackish line about half an inch horiztonal to her toe that looked somewhat promising but I poked it with the hoof pick and got not reaction. I brushed her sole good, hoping maybe something would happen. Nothing. I really want the satisfaction of finding this thing, watching it blow, and hear Ro sigh with relief. As I sat there, I was muttering "Ok, where are you, you little bastard. Rear your ugly head." It is driving me crazy to know that somewhere in that hoof is something that is causing Ro a ton of pain, and if it would JUST COME OUT, she would be better. I have sent it several invitations, tried to ease its way with poultices, thorough hoof cleaning, and soaking, but it is evidently shy.

I had so hoped to pull into the barn driveway and look out atthe pasture and see her walking a little more comfortably Instead, she was hobbling behind the herd. walking her to the barn, we had to stop several times to rest. But, oddly, she walks better after the first 5-6 steps. She was being very lovey with a friend, which indicates to the world she does not feel good. And balanced quite well on two legs when I cleaned out her other feet.

Tomorrow, I will go to plain hot water soaks and wrap in a plain diaper to give her foot a break from being wet, then will go to Animaltex pads. (Trying to think of a place near me that carries them) At least with the white of the diaper/Animaltex I can see if there is any type of drainage. PRAYING for drainage.

So, in hopes of preventing this again, talk to me about Keratex hoof products. Ro usually has good feet, but with the dry then wet weather we have had, she has some cracking going on. Does Keratex help? Does it go on the sole and cor. band?

[JumpingPaints]

I also vote absess.

The only absess I have ever dealt with was also a mystery/late-to-the-party variety. I had a new vet who was convinced we were not dealing with an absess. Many $$$ x-rays, 7 days, meds and 3 $$$ vet visits later, bingo, it burst.

Poor Rothina. Maybe some dentures would cheer her up?

Edited to add: 7% iodine is messy, but also very good at hardening soles.

[horse_poor]

JP-I am askeered of iodine. A friend at the barn had a horse with thrush, the vet (one I refuse to use) told her to treat it with iodine daily. As a result, she burned the crap out of her poor horse's sole/frog. It was ugly. The farrier said, "WHO told you to do this????"

What is the world's record for an unburst abscess?

And we discusses dentures for Rothina as we watched her hobble around the pasture. We decided she needed a grill instead. With purple stones, of course. :D

[Appassionato]

So, in hopes of preventing this again, talk to me about Keratex hoof products. Ro usually has good feet, but with the dry then wet weather we have had, she has some cracking going on. Does Keratex help? Does it go on the sole and cor. band?

Keratex Hoof Hardener has formalin in it. It has a water like consistency, and you ONLY put it on the walls and the sole, NOT on the coronet nor the frog. I emphasized because of my own mistakes with that. :lol: What KHH does is supposedly make better bonds within the hoof structure to keep shelly hooves from breaking to pieces, and it works the best I've used on toughening up soles.

And actually, moving on the thing may help it burst. Bad as it is to see her hopping, she will eventually pass this doggone thing. I know it's frustrating. Hang in there!

[Boston Chicken]

Have you resolved whether to bute her? I should think it would make her feel a whole lot better. Have no idea why it would be a bad idea but perhaps someone else has.

[EqTrainer]

When they progress to this level of unhappiness, if the horse tolerates bute I will bute it. Just one dose and I swear, sometimes it comes right out. I think it's because sometimes it helps them walk on that part of their foot.

[horse_poor]

We attempted to sneak bute into some grain today-she refused it. I then syringed it down her throat, and the result was her spitting it out everywhere, mainly on me, which mixed nicely with the bran I was covered in. It really was not a fun filled day with Rothina. :no:

Hoping some got into her. She is really a picky eatter. It was HELL trying to get 20 SMZs in her a few weeks ago.

If she is still ouchy tomorrow I am bringing out the bottle o' molasses and covering a mix of grain and bute with it. She cannot resist molasses coated food. Or I am going to the vet and picking up some paste.

Eq-I agree that I would think it would be good to get her to walk on the foot to get the thing to blow.

BC-I had been told in the past that bute helps alleviate the inflammation which is needed to help push the thing out, and if the inf. is not there, it prolongs the outbreak. Not sure if I believe that, but it kind of makes sense. Kind of.

Watching her this sore ranks up there with holding your kids down for immunizations.

[EqTrainer]

Well I guess she made the "bute or not to bute" decision for you.

I have heard the inflammation thing too, but I think pain is only ok for a certain period of time. Then they start overloading the other leg, compensating with the front end or back, and their cortizol levels go up. I actually prefer Devils Claw and White Willow bark for those who can tolerate it but bute works well too, again, if they can tolerate it.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

another vote for abcess....

I will say the poultice helped soothe it for my boy.

[Pippigirl]

trying to decide if she should take another horse, I offered up Rosina (before she went lame as well). She said, and I qoute, "Uh, Molly, training level has CANTERING in it. Rosina does not canter nicely, alone, or with others."

:sigh:

Hahahahaaaa! Geez! Can I relate! Don't worry, ranks right up there with a couple of comments someone made about my horse "it's hard to tell if she's lame or sore since she doesn't have great movements to begin with".
C'mon!

[JumpingPaints]

JP-I am askeered of iodine. A friend at the barn had a horse with thrush, the vet (one I refuse to use) told her to treat it with iodine daily. As a result, she burned the crap out of her poor horse's sole/frog. It was ugly. The farrier said, "WHO told you to do this????"

DAILY?!?!?! OMG, no kidding it burned the horse's feet!!! I only use it once in a blue, er, purple moon, if it's been really wet and feet are looking a bit thrushy. My former farrier recommended it to me, the bum!

When you say purple grill, do you mean something akin to horse braces?

[horse_poor]

Much like the grill the oh-so-classy rapper Nelly wears.


http://www.nobodysmiling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35876

Rothina would loff it.

[JumpingPaints]

Much like the grill the oh-so-classy rapper Nelly wears.


http://www.nobodysmiling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35876

Rothina would loff it.

:lol: :lol: Nice!! I am sure all the other mares would want to play with her if she had that.

[horse_poor]

Still no drainage. Just a VERY lame and miserable Rosina. I was able to get some aspirin down her-she does not object to it as much as bute.

Her friends cantered up tot he fence line and she followed, on three legs, Barbaro style. I almost threw up as I watched it.

So we soaked. I talked tothe farrier at noon, he agreed to soak and wrap. And lunge after soaking to get that foot moving. I tried it. And could only stand to see it for about 30 seconds. She would try to trot and wheelbarrow onto her front end. It was nauseating.

So, we went back and soaked. And wrapped the offender in a diaper. On the way to the paddock, she seemed to be walking a bit better. But, she always walks better after about 5 steps, which puzzles me. Maybe the aspirin was kicking in.

She is exhausted and sat with her head in a friend's arms with her eyes closed as I unwrapped and picked out the foot. She then turned around and looked at it.

Hoof testers indicate the entire lower fourth quarter of her hoof is sore, from the tip of the frog to the toe and to the outside edge.

I am going to start pulling my hair out. :mad: How long can a horse be in this much obvious pain without colicing or doing damage to other body parts from walking/moving so funny?

[EqTrainer]

Well, I'm going to step out on that limb since you asked the ???.

I might be wanting an xray of that foot soon. It is possible - just possible - that she has cracked her coffin bone on that side. Oh my god I can't believe I even typed that. No, it's probably just an abcess. Really, it probably is. But today is Monday.. you know you need to have resolution before another weekend comes up! Maybe shoot a film on Wednesday?

[horse_poor]

Eq, no one can type ANYTHING that I have not already thought about. I am worried sick over this. I am sure it is just an abscess but all of the what ifs keep going thru my head. Trying to get her to walk really is like it was when I tried to get Aero to walk to the round pen to be put down. I have been over her with the proverbial fine toothed comb and there is no heat or swelling anywhere. No strong digital pulse.

Here is what sucks. Dr. Hottie is gone until July 10th, on a vacation I am sure financed thanks to Rothina. (Actually, I think he has property in Montana or WYoming and is some sort of state vet or is on the state vet board or something. So I am sure it not all play.) I do not like any other vets around here. It goes beyond not liking-I don't TRUST any other vets around here. However, I may have to suck it up and get one out.

Does it make sense that she walks better after 5 steps or so? When I lunged her for the 30 nauseating seconds, I watched her hoof placement. She will place it down normally but when she steps off and "rolls the toe" toe, she picks it up quickly. So, I think the hoof testers are accurate in indicating there is a problem in that quarter section of the hoof.

Today is day 3 of 3 legged lameness.

[Boston Chicken]

I would agree - get an x-ray. There's no faster way to get the sucker to come out ;) Seriously though, it's been a long time and you need to see what's going on.

[Beethoven]

I ended up x-raying my boy just to be sure since his abcess ordeal went on for a MONTH! I think we x-rayed half way through just to be sure. I know how you feel believe me.

[dauntless]

I know I posted this earlier on - but try the hot animalintex with epsom salts sprinkled on. When Ivan had his second round of abcesses (one in each foot), he was only showing sensitivity on one hoof to hoof testers and didn't have a strong digital pulse in either. However - it looked like he was favouring both so I wrapped both. He ended up bursting abscesses in both feet and I really feel that the combonation of both did the trick. One of the biggest trainers at the big track around here gave me the hint and I'm glad I took him up on it.

Re: coffin bone fracture. This is also something I turned over in my head during both rounds of abscesses... I know of two horses that have had coffin bone fractures and both recovered 100% - just took a lot of time. I know that the time thing bites, but if thats the worst case scenario, then its not *really* that bad.

[horse_poor]

Well, since Dr. H is out of town, I need to make a choice. Do I call the vet that insisted Rosina did not need a tranq (despite my pleading requests)during stall rest and as a result smashed her teeth out or do I call the vet that diagnosed a friend's mare with an abscess when she actually had WNV? Perhaps the act of making an appointment will make this thing blow?

And I shall go pick up some Animalintex pads today. Maybe this time they will work.

[Boston Chicken]

If it were me, I would call another vet. July 10 is too long - though you probably wouldn't need him by then.

Hope she's feeling better soon.

[horse_poor]

I am calling the other vets-one cannot get out until Thursday, the other is checking schedules and getting back to me.

Talked to the farrier who is going to swing out and look at her this afternoon-he said to hold off on making an appointment, but I am making one anyway-I can always cancel. He said it COULD be a coffin bone issue but still tends to think it is an abscess, although he said he is puzzled by the way she walks better after 5 steps.

I HATE using these other vets, but I guess I do not have a choice. :dead:

[horse_poor]

Friend called from the barn-Ro is still on three legs. Vet is coming at 1:30.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

PLEASE let us know. We are jingling madly for you. Poor girl.

[horse_poor]

Got to the barn, found Ro on three legs. Farrier said he would come by. So, I cancelled the vet. I soaked her while waiting for the farrier, put a diaper on her, and walked her. She seemed to perk up a bit and was really quite sassy. She was walking so she would swing her leg out a bit and land on the inside.

Farrier got there, bent her leg in crazy positions to check her joints, said the joints seemed fine, and hoof tested her. As predicted, she was sore in the bottom quarter of her hoof to the outside. He stared at her foot and said "I see pus." He pointed to her toe and I said, "Huh? I see nothing." He grabbed the diaper that was on her foot and looked in it and said, "There is pus in the diaper." He took his hoof knife, shaved off a smidge, and pus came trickling out. It looks as if the track runs from the side of her frog to her toe. Of course I was disappointed not to have it stream out and by the time I got her back in the barn there was no more drainage. But, it has started.

So, we cleaned her foot off, slapped on an Animalintex pad on with half a roll of duct tape, and turned her out. She tried to canter, wound up on 3 legs, did quite an ugly trot, then walked. He said she would probably feel better in about half an hour now that it has opened up a bit. Now, the challenge is to keep it moving.

Yay! Never been so happy to see pus!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

So happy.

How sick is this? That we are all happy that there is pus coming from Rothina's hoof. Horse people.

[goeslikestink]

lalala becuase we sicko ;s praying it was an abcess

[MsM]

Oh! I would like to see pus from my horse! Stevie was nearly three-legged on the 15th. Soaked, poulticed, etc. Thought I saw a small opening at the coronary right in front, but didnt seem any real drainage. Still, his lameness improved dramatically. Unfortunately his leg swelled up like a post. Had vet out (young associate) who thought he had popped a small abcess and then developed a touch of cellulitis. Left meds and intructions to hose and told me he was sound enough to ride! Two days later the leg looked much better. I longed him and he looked good until his shoe went flying off... Next day he is REALLY ouchy on that foot. :( So the farrier (who I really trust) comes out to put shoe on and finds no evidence of abcess. Feels the spot on coronary was a scrape as there is no tenderness or discharge. :confused: He finds no heat or evidence of an abcess yet to pop, so his theory is that he has a bad bruise, aggravated by throwing the shoe. So he advises not to soak unless there is more evidence of an abcess but to alternate Tuff Stuff and hoof conditioner to try to improve the hoof toughness and pliability.
So I still have a hobbling horse :sigh:

[horse_poor]

Oh MsM, that sucks! Can you add pads to help with the bruise?

[MsM]

I could add pads, but I want to keep things somewhat open (he's in bar shoes) to monitor the situation and try to toughen the soles back up. He does have a rim pad so should have enough "ground clearance"
My current theory on how he did this: He has only been ridden in the well-groomed indoor and turned out in a small electric fenced paddock with sand and no notable rocks. Of course he could have spooked and stepped on the only rock there (would be typical...) but he also could have done it in the stall. He is a horse that loves to roll, so I wonder if he got stuck next to the stall wall and beat his foot up before he managed to get up. Hey, its a theory and it is something to ponder while not riding (horse and I tend to have alternating periods of soundness - this is likely due to the good report I got from my doctor!)
Next step for Stevie: Bubblewrap! :p

[ChocoMare]

Oh Molly! Hooray for pus! Yes, we are all sick, sick horse people :yes:

Isn't it great to see the look of relief in your mare's eye when it finally blows out?

Continued Jingles!!!!!

[horse_poor]

Choco, she really did not have any look but one of "Quit messing with my effing foot!" I think it was a gradual release and not one of those *huge sighs* moments, much to my disappointment. I wanted to see that thing blow across the driveway! But, if it wants to trickle, I am ok with that, too. As long as it keeps working its way out.

[ChocoMare]

"Out" being the operative word. Out is very good :yes:

[EqTrainer]

See what happens when you call the vet? Sometimes the checkbook fairly smiles upon you and send the pus finding farrier instead. THANK GOD!

[Irish Ei's]

Told ya so!!!!!:D :D :yes: :cool: ;)

[horse_poor]

Now the question is...how long of a recovery. I refunded the girl's parents who are half leasing her spent on the last part of the motnh of June. They want to know if she will be good to go for July. I told them that *usually* once an abscess starts to drain, it takes a few days to get back to normal. But of course, this is Rothina we are talking about. So anything is possible.

[Irish Ei's]

Bob was 2 weeks after his last big abcess incident...

[Barnfairy]

woo hoo! AWEsome news.

My Irish setter Aiden has what we think (and hope) is an abscess festering on the top of his nose. Just try keeping magnapaste on a young dog's nose. It's like putting scotch tape on a cat.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Knowing Rothina - set it up for last half of July. She will then turn around and be ready tomorrow.

[horse_poor]

I just talked to Jen22, who was at the barn last night. She reported that Rothina no longer had her wrap on last night at 7 pm, less than 3 hours after I put it on her. :mad: It is gonna be pretty hard for this thing to keep open and draining if she is dragging her foot through the dirt.

So, evidently, an Animalintex pad, a diaper, and half a roll of duct tape is not sufficient.

I am really to the point of just selling her and being done with horses. Not that this abscess brought this on, as I have been feeling anti horse for a week or two, but this certainly aggravates it. I have no desire to ride, be around horses, or go to the barn, however Rothina has made it clear that my presence is demanded.

A friend I have talked to about this has warned me not to do it, that I will regret it. And I appreciate what she is saying. But really, the thought of going to the barn does not give me warm fuzzies.

I think I have lost my horsey mo-jo. :no:

[skyyak]

Buy an easyboot and just put a pad in the bottom. That would be much faster than all the duct tape (however from the sound of your horse, she'd find a way to get that one rock stuck in the bottom :no: )

[horse_poor]

Oh, did I fail to mention that yesterday while waiting for the farrier, she was standing so nicely...then reached around to her affected left hind leg like she was going to scratch it....then she took a hold of the diaper with her remaining teeth and attempted to tear it off?

Yeah. Wonder how it came off?:mad:

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

This just show syou how SMART she is.

Maybe she knows you're in a funky frame of mind and is doing what she can to keep you involved and take your mind off it.

[EqTrainer]

No, no. No diaper.

Animaltex, vetwrap, duct tape. That's all! The diaper makes it too bulky and the edges drag and then it all tears off.

How is she feeling today?

[horse_poor]

When I got there, her foot was packed with dirst, of course. Walking a little better-she went from 5% sound to maybe 25% sound. So, I soaked it and picked out the area it was draining from. No drainage. Amy came and looked at it as I held her foot and she said she could see a hole, so she held it so I could see it. But no drainage. Soaked it some more. Then wrapped it with even more duct tape.

There is no vet wrap to be found at the barn, hence the diaper. There was a drawer full but I guess with the recent outbreak of abscesses/wounds, it has depleted. So, I shall once again have to go buy a giant bag full. I had a roll at home and of course forgot to grab it on my way to the barn :sigh: So I did Animalintex, diaper, satin wrap folded and pulled up around her pastern (kind of like a bag), covered with duct tape.
When I turned her out, she trotted a few sad pathetic steps then went back to walking.

I am hoping that 1) the wrap makes it thru the night and 2) there is a big glob of pus sitting in it when I take it off tomorrow. I worry about the draining track closing off. She is still very tired-she ate about half of her "snack" of rice bran and then stood with her leg in the air and her eyes half shut.

I have given up on the thought of this girl half leasing her, which stinks because she was so looking forward to it. Her mom was doing it for her as her reward for watching her sister this summer. But I cannot half lease out a horse that is lame. :no: And Alex is going to be here for 3 weeks starting Saturday, so this girl would have pretty much had Ro to herself for those three weeks. And Ro, dare I say, LIKES her. They are quite cute together

So, now Alex will learn all about abscesses, I guess. We have a schooling show on Monday, in which Ro was s'posed to make her Training level debut, which will not be happening now. But Alex will be doing poles on the ground (with a leadline, of course, with me running the course-not quite sure how fair that is...) on fat little Mona.

I think this will be a long recovery process. But, that is how Ro likes to do things, I guess.

[dauntless]

No, no. No diaper.

Animaltex, vetwrap, duct tape. That's all! The diaper makes it too bulky and the edges drag and then it all tears off.

How is she feeling today?

I second that - if you want to make it stronger, put some industrial strength plastic or a square of tarp. And then make the duct tape hoof shaped for a few layers. My horse plays hard, esp when the abscess had already been broken and this stayed on! Don't bother over doing it w/ the vetrap - a horse can wear thru as much vetrap as you can put on, esp if she is wearing shoes. Think about the vetrap as just to keep the animalintex on.

IME, I wrapped (w/ animalintex and epsom salts) for a good 6ish days afterwards - until there had been a solid three days of no puss left on the pad. It may have been overkill, but it didn't hurt him and was def was worth it for my peace of mind. After that was all done, I put him on a hoof sup in the hopes that it would help the hole to grown out more quickly.

editted to add that I've seen people at the track use a feedbag after the vetrap and leave the ends very long, so that there is bag sticking up above the fetlocks. Then put a standing bandage on top, over the ends of the bag. This apparently keeps the bag part in place. Now, I'm not sure if this would help you; it wouldn't have helped me bc Ivan wore thru his wrap, he didn't pull it off. Also, I think that I might be wary of the unevenness of the bag underneath. I thought I'd throw it out there anyway, though!

Re: you thinking this will be a long recovery time: cheer up =) I would say that keeping the wrap on is your #1 priority bc not only do you want the drawing but you also really DON'T want any crap getting in the hole. Focus on that and you should be in good shape! If it stops draining, get your farrier to dig around a bit. This is definately conquer-able, so don't be too disheartened!

I'm so compulsive - so editted AGAIN to add that my vet advised me to flush out the drainage site w/ betadine and water when I was changing the wraps, and to do it with quite a bit of force to try to dislodge anything little or not so little bits of grit that could have possibly snuck its way up there. I incorporated this into my wrapping regime. If I had done this the first time around, maybe the second time wouldn't have happened. sigh. If your mare's wrap isn't staying on, I would make doubly sure that you do this - I don't think soaking isn't enough to get a hole super clean.

[Irish Ei's]

A can of finely ground black pepper......
Hate to say it but you're gonna have to set her up for it........
Sprinkle a very large dose of Black pepper into your palm......
Step clear quickly as she takes her first sniff.
Let her SEE the Evil Can of Black pepper....
Pour liberally into any and all wraps.....
Worked like a charm on Dooley after he totally demolished all 4 brand new pillow wraps AND all four brand new Standing bandages in .23 seconds......
After his Introduction to The Can, all he had to do was SEE it.......

[EqTrainer]

There is no vet wrap to be found at the barn, hence the diaper.






:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

OMG! Well, now you know why she decided to have an abcess. She knew. They know. I buy it by the case, and always keep a case on hand, as insurance. As long as I have 24 rolls and enough Animaltex to do 20 feet, no abcesses. Sick but true.

[Appassionato]

I second that - if you want to make it stronger, put some industrial strength plastic or a square of tarp. And then make the duct tape hoof shaped for a few layers. My horse plays hard, esp when the abscess had already been broken and this stayed on! Don't bother over doing it w/ the vetrap - a horse can wear thru as much vetrap as you can put on, esp if she is wearing shoes. Think about the vetrap as just to keep the animalintex on.

IME, I wrapped (w/ animalintex and epsom salts) for a good 6ish days afterwards - until there had been a solid three days of no puss left on the pad. It may have been overkill, but it didn't hurt him and was def was worth it for my peace of mind. After that was all done, I put him on a hoof sup in the hopes that it would help the hole to grown out more quickly.

editted to add that I've seen people at the track use a feedbag after the vetrap and leave the ends very long, so that there is bag sticking up above the fetlocks. Then put a standing bandage on top, over the ends of the bag. This apparently keeps the bag part in place. Now, I'm not sure if this would help you; it wouldn't have helped me bc Ivan wore thru his wrap, he didn't pull it off. Also, I think that I might be wary of the unevenness of the bag underneath. I thought I'd throw it out there anyway, though!

Re: you thinking this will be a long recovery time: cheer up =) I would say that keeping the wrap on is your #1 priority bc not only do you want the drawing but you also really DON'T want any crap getting in the hole. Focus on that and you should be in good shape! If it stops draining, get your farrier to dig around a bit. This is definately conquer-able, so don't be too disheartened!

I'm so compulsive - so editted AGAIN to add that my vet advised me to flush out the drainage site w/ betadine and water when I was changing the wraps, and to do it with quite a bit of force to try to dislodge anything little or not so little bits of grit that could have possibly snuck its way up there. I incorporated this into my wrapping regime. If I had done this the first time around, maybe the second time wouldn't have happened. sigh. If your mare's wrap isn't staying on, I would make doubly sure that you do this - I don't think soaking isn't enough to get a hole super clean.

I did the feedbag thing too. The bottom corner especially really fits well. I also syriged hydrogen peroxide. And dauntless is right, keep the area pretty clean if for no other reason than to allow drainage!

Glad to hear it popped! I think almost all of us have been there before, SO frustrating! :winkgrin:

[Irish Ei's]

I'm in EqTrainers boat.....Desperately need to free up some room in my trunk, but I will NOT remove the poultice tub...it is empty, there's a full bucket here at home, BUT........

[Irish Ei's]

I'm also a fan of the poultice/wet brown paper/vetwrap method....But NO turnout....

[horse_poor]

I have not heard yet if she still has it on or not. Will call at noon and find out. And I am going to start syringing/flushing it as well.

I have the remains of a feed bag (the plasticy kind) and will use that on top of the vet wrap and under the duct tape. And I just cancelled her half lease.

[EqTrainer]

Oh, you cancelled the lease...

she will get sound almost immediately, you can be sure :)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

EqTrainer is onto something - Ted's abcess mysteriously disappeared after I bought 4 huge cartons of magnesium sulfate, plus a huge tub of poultice. Which stayed in my car for the next three months as insurance.

[horse_poor]

Sorry, but I am going to say that an impending lease therefore going lame is going to overpower having appropriate supplies on hand therefore not going lame.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

yes, but no you have no lease, right? And it's not appropriate supplies, it's supplies to last you through a nuclear holocaust.

[horse_poor]

OK, I need some of your thoughts here...

The abscess has broken and drained very little. One day, there was quite a bit, but not a ton. She is definitely not as lame before-100% sound at the walk, but off at the trot. It has been two weeks today since she went lame, one week since the abscess broke.

I have been soaking and wrapping it, and it seems that Ms. Rothina is less than pleased with it being wrapped. In fact, she stands and kicks to try to get it off and will rip at it with her teeth. So, I have done away with the wrap. The few times she did not manage to get the wrap off, despite the multiple layers of duct tape, I did not notice any more drainage. I have been soaking it and flushing the hole out just to keep it somewhat clean.

So, my question is this. Why is still off? Is it possible for there to residual inflammation from when the abscess was brewing? She tends to drag her toe at the trot just a bit (the abscess broke in her toe.) Could there be another pocket? But I would think if there was another pocket of yuck brewing, she would be lamer?

*sigh* She is driving me crazy. Thoughts?

[cartera45]

Abscesses have no timetable. Some seem to last forever - others come and go in no time. Our pony struggled with an abscess for weeks and weeks once - farrier ended up digging it out because of where it was.
I am one of those who doesn't believe the soaking helps that much - except perhaps to soften the soles so they are more prone to bruising so I would stop soaking at this point. Has the farrier used hoof testers on her lately?

[horse_poor]

Farrier hoof tested her last week-he is gone until Thursday. I am too uncoordinated to use hoof testers effectively, but from what I could tell, she is less sore than she was last week.

I am thinking the soaking is doing more for me (that I am actually DOING something) than her. So, as hard as it is going to be, I am going to leave it be, in that respect.

I will have the farrier look at her Thursday.

Knowing her, she has figured out "hey, if I drag my toe a little, I dont have to do that damned dressage." :sigh:

[goeslikestink]

then no more soaking and let her foot harden up -- do animallintex dry cutting out a shape so it fits into the foot -- as it works dry and wet then diper -- vet wrap foot --

the hoof need to heal and harden but also needs to be dry and clean
the dry animal lintex will tell you if pussy -- if not then change it for another week-- then take it of at intervals --during the night in a stall or during the day out in the feilds--

the hoof has to harden now shes off cuase its soft-- and a bcess depending how bad can take from 2- 6weeks to heal up depending on depth of hole to close --

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

aw, shoot.

!@^^&*!@^!@ abcesses.

[horse_poor]

GLS-I CANNOT keep a wrap on her-she spends all of her time trying to get it off :mad: and pretty soon she will start throwing herself on the ground in protest.

I am going to wait for the farrier on Thursday and see what he says. I am afraid this is going to be one of those "time" things. As in, the entire summer.

[EqTrainer]

Unless you can get a wrap on it that will stay you are going to have a very hard time getting this resolved :(

I would not soak it anymore. She could just be sore from so much soaking making her sole soft. I would just keep the hole open enough to keep draining and.. keep it wrapped. I know, I know. But everytime something gets packed up in there and it stops draining, you are back in the same situation.

How exactly are you wrapping it? I haven't ever had a horse take one off, maybe something about it is particularly annoying to her.

Not sure what else to say!

[cartera45]

Sounds like it has already closed up. Some of them seem to close up on their own no matter what you do. Since she will not keep the wrap on, you will not be able to have the farrier dig around in there. You have probably mentioned this, but what kind of turnout is she on now? I would have her moving around as much as possible.

[horse_poor]

She's turned out 24/7. During the day on pasture and in a large paddock at night.

I keep thinking "what happens to a horse in the wild with an abscess?" My thoughts are they either resolve or they become dinner :eek:

I am wondering if this is one of those situations that is going to sort out on its own. it seems like the more I interfere (wrapping in particular) the less resolution there is.

I am still going to have the farrier look at her and see what he thinks.

[Aptor Hours]

Maybe it is time to get a new horse.

[atr]

Back in the dark ages, once the farrier had popped the abscess, he'd pack the hoof with iodine-soaked oakum and put a leather pad and a shoe on.

Seemed to work pretty well.

[horse_poor]

Maybe it is time to get a new horse.

Or maybe it's time to get out of horses all together. :confused: Although, I do not know if an abscess is a reason to get rid of a horse. Yeah, she has had some "issues," but shit happens. She is for sale, but the only offer I have had has been a trade for a large pony hunter, which made me giggle. Me, with a large pony hunter...:lol:

atr-can a shoe be put on a foot with an abscess in the toe?

[atr]

Horsepoor, honestly, I don't know, but I'd be exploring the possibility with my farrier--maybe a modified hospital plate?

[Instant Karma]

Hey there:)

Just came upon this thread and while I'm sorry that Rothina has to go through all of this, I sure did learn a lot of crafty ways to wrap and poultice.

Horse_poor- any update on your girl?