Is this a normal behaviour in the USA (I am really pissed off)

[Horsedances]

Look at this thread, and notice the following.

One hour after an important dressage-competition I have all the video's of the rides online.

See what happens with these video's

http://praha.planetsg.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=50368

I never ever charged money for this service, and even when people don't have a fast internet connection I send them a DVD for free (not even delivery costs) (A humorous note : It's a hell of a job to send a DVD over to the USA, because you need at least ten documents to declare that there is no Porno on it :D ) But it seems that the money-sharks are taking advantage of this service.

Look at this link :

http://www.dressagemonthly.com/linktoankyvideo.html (http://www.dressagemonthly.com/linktoankyvideo.html)

and look at this link which was on-line 2 hours after the event :

http://www.horsedances.net/2006DBAnky001.htm

and you will notice that this company just copies these videos from my website and try to make money out of it.

Theo

[canyonoak]

Someone is using YOUR exact video , representing it as their own AND trying to make money off it?

wow, how low can you go..?!!!

[nhwr]

Comments on the first thread are ungracious at best and ignorant at worst.

Regarding those who are using the clip themselves; Can you assert copyright protection? I think you can do this with a photo so it should be too much different with a video. To do this, you would need to put a statement on your page and in the video that says it is copyrighted and not to be used without the permission of the copyright holder (you). Then other people can't use it, unless you say. If you don't have a copyright (which you obtain by simply saying the material is copyrighted as above), the material is considered public domain and anyone can do anything they like with it. This is my understanding of copyright protection. A lawyer could make it bullet proof for you.

PS A copyright statement need a date to be valid.

[Jeepers]

Oh my!! :eek: I looked at your site and I don't see any obvious copyright statement or anything...but you could have your lawyer write them a nice little letter! :yes: And then put up something obvious on your site so this doesn't happen again

[BornToRide]

Hmmmm, I do not want to get in trouble with all the really nice and honest American people I know, but some can be real scumbags who try to cheat off of others....and the coprorations and politicians really show them how to.

That is one of the things I thoroughly dislike in this country - the emphasis on cheating when you cannot go the high road. It was one of the things that became very obvious to me as a German when we came to this country. We are now Americans and I'm not very proud of this at all.

[Horsedances]

I have set up this service for the people who don't have the money, time or whatever to watch these competitions life.

The daily average visitors are from 3800 the first day after the competitions to 2200 a week after the competitions.

Every week I get an average of 15 requests from riding schools who ask me if they are allowed to use these clips for educational purposes, and mostly I send them a Full-screen DVD.

Dressage-lovers from Russia, Ukraine, Finland, Italy, Australia New Zealand, Sourh Africa, Mexico, USA and Canada etc..
can't wait for the next competition to arrive. I had to sign contracts with four unlimited bandwidth service providers to get this thing up and running.

Now see what happens:mad:

[nhwr]

You don't understand copyright protection, Born to Ride. In the US this isn't "cheating". When someone releases something without copyright protection it becomes part of the public domain and it is a given that you want to share it. People aren't scumbags if they use items in the public domain.

[egontoast]

Can you put a notice on your website- not to be used for commercial or promotional purposes, or something like that. Don't know if it would help much but at least would indicate your intention with respect to the use of the videos. You may have to copyright them as well.

[beejoux]

I just wonder if it's normal practice in your country to take a broadcast (television? it appears) sports event and put it up on one's site and then get pissed off when someone else uses it too?

[HXF]

Well, he's not charging for it, that's the difference.

[Moll]

Blah, that is really completely idiotic behaviour!

Don't know about the US but here, you don't need to actively copyright anything or put a copyright mark on your stuff. If you made it, it's yours, and automatically copyrighted.


Sue them :D

[BornToRide]

You don't understand copyright protection, Born to Ride. In the US this isn't "cheating". When someone releases something without copyright protection it becomes part of the public domain and it is a given that you want to share it. People aren't scumbags if they use items in the public domain. I can understand this issue , but I still see a lot of cheating efforts in this country, sorry.

[Jeepers]

Blah, that is really completely idiotic behaviour!

Don't know about the US but here, you don't need to actively copyright anything or put a copyright mark on your stuff. If you made it, it's yours, and automatically copyrighted.


Sue them :D

I believe it's the same here with copyrights...

I don't think he could sue them, there is no obvious statement saying it is his or whatever. But, I am not a lawyer. That doesn't mean that his lawyer couldn't write a not so friendly letter to them!

[flamenco horse]

Someone is using YOUR exact video , representing it as their own AND trying to make money off it? wow, how low can you go..?!!!

Agreed! I have cancelled my subscription to Dressage Monthly Video Magazine and have written to Rita explaining why. This simply isn't right. Oh sure, it may be perfectly legal since there doesn't appear to be a copyright infringement, but that doens't make it right! Anyone wishing to express their opinions to DMVM can do so by writing to: Info@dressagemonthly.com

Theo, I have immensly enjoyed that which you have so graciously provided.

[AllWeatherGal]

While it's a very good idea to put a copyright statement on all your stuff, the lack of same does not reduce your ownership nor imply public ownership ... just makes it more difficult to win an award in a legal arena.

For example, if you purchase a photo of yourself in competition, you do not necessarily purchase the right to reproduce. I've asked several professional photographers for permission to reproduce (with attribution) photos they took of TBs with beaded browbands or patches and been denied.

HD ... it's a copyright infringement even if people use it with no intention to make money. At the *very* least you should have received a request to borrow and attribution on the video itself.

I don't subscribe to the publication and really admire flamenco for her actions.

Having said all THAT, I suspect this kind of thing happens all over the world, not just with US-based businesses and I'd just adore it if you'd quit US-bashing.

[Jeepers]

Having said all THAT, I suspect this kind of thing happens all over the world, not just with US-based businesses and I'd just adore it if you'd quit US-bashing.

Agreed... I mean, we could go on about germans :rolleyes: but that would be narrowminded of us since we're americans, wouldn't it. ;)

[BornToRide]

Having said all THAT, I suspect this kind of thing happens all over the world, not just with US-based businesses and I'd just adore it if you'd quit US-bashing.Sorry, but realizing this was a pretty good culture shock for me, because I never experienced it to such an extend in Germany. I guess you'll have to take my word for it.

If I see something wrong in this country or any country, I'll say so. I think we have an obligation to speak out against injustice. Otherwise it is a sign that we quietly agree with what is happening .

[siegi b.]

Thanks for the link, Flamenco. I just sent them an e-mail telling them that their actions are less than conducive to obtaining new subscriptions because the American public does not condone stealing.

[fiona]

Parasites - a new definition for web pages that profit off the back of other peoples efforts. Often accompanied by dubious emotive statements and shoddy journalism.

[Jeepers]

Sorry, but realizing this was a pretty good culture shock for me, because I never experienced it to such an extend in Germany. I guess you'll have to take my word for it.

If I see something wrong in this country or any country, I'll say so. I think we have an obligation to speak out against injustice. Otherwise it is a sign that we quietly agree with what is happening .

That is ethics honey, that is something defined by your experiences and background. It is not the same everywhere and not easily definable as to what is wrong and right. It's an opinion.

[physical.energy]

How can someone just do that without any conscience...... I appreciate Horsedances and his efforts and am disgusted at the balls of others. I am american and I say typical slimmey behavior.
Horsedances should not have to worry that his material would be taken and sold...... that is immoral !!!:mad: I'd be screaming right about now too.

[BornToRide]

That's fine, call it opinion - I'm still stunned about the fabricated California energy crisis. It is just amazing to what extend people can go for personal gain.

[Carol Ames]

I think it is a copyright issue, my business manager insisted that I copyright the evaluation forms which appear on the Pegasussport horses website, as yet stillunfinished.:mad: :mad:

[BornToRide]

On a side note, can anyone share here how one can make sensitive items on a website non-copyable? I have seen it on some, but do not know how to do it. I'd like to incorporate this in a website I am designing for a Lipizzan breeder.

[Ghazzu]

You don't understand copyright protection, Born to Ride. In the US this isn't "cheating". When someone releases something without copyright protection it becomes part of the public domain and it is a given that you want to share it. People aren't scumbags if they use items in the public domain.

IAMAL, but I don't believe you need to be explicit like that--I think the copyright is *there* for original work unless stated otherwise.

[sm]

what country is the server in that hosts your website? Call and ask what your resources are.

If in America the original author has rights, although it's stronger if you include the copyright line. If in America, I believe there still is an agency in New York City that protects artists (graphic, photographer, videographer's rights) as a free service.

Or, check with a university that teaches law in the country your server is. Perhaps a professor that teaches law (or head of the dept) will give you free advice on your international rights. It may matter in which country the idiot lives who is ripping you off, so have all that info on hand.

[Noir]

I don't want to be rude or anything, but do you actually have the copyright to the films? Are they from TV, and if so, does the TV channel own the copyrights, and you have basically made computer files from TV broadcast? If the TV channel owns the copyright, it is unfortunate, but I don't think there's anything you can do, despite putting down hard work and doing it for free only to spread joy. Possibly that they are using your technical skill and work for their own purposes, but otherwise it's up to the TV channel.

It will probably be very hard to take action for copyright internationally like this. I still think it's a very weird thing of such a publication to actually just use the file like that without any contact with its source. Can they have gotten it from someone else who got it off your website? Can you get them to reply by e-mail? Can there have been some misunderstanding?

T

[Ghazzu]

In light of what Horsedances has posted about the video being lifted from his site, dose this statement from the offending website strike anyone else as ironic?

"Copyright © Dressage Monthly, LLC All rights reserved. Material from this website may be used only with written permission of Dressage Monthly, LLC and for non-commercial use only."

[sm]

""Copyright © Dressage Monthly, LLC All rights reserved. Material from this website may be used only with written permission of Dressage Monthly, LLC and for non-commercial use only."

That's what should have happened in the first place with HorseDances. Although I doubt it was actually copyrighted, it was probably that those words were posted only.

Again, ask a university professor who teaches law and would know international web rules, have your facts together. You need to prove ownership and at this point I don't know how you do that.

Oh (lightbulb icon please): ask your web host server for a log: can they show when clips were downloaded off your site? Perhaps they have a log of the clips being copied off and the email address that copied them.

[Xhltsalute]

In light of what Horsedances has posted about the video being lifted from his site, dose this statement from the offending website strike anyone else as ironic?

"Copyright © Dressage Monthly, LLC All rights reserved. Material from this website may be used only with written permission of Dressage Monthly, LLC and for non-commercial use only."



Yes, Ghazzu, I saw that. Had to clean my screen afterwards. ;)

[Kareen]

Boy, I would sure be sour too! Whether what they do is formally legal or not doesn't make a difference for me. It is bad style and unethical to make money off other people's work without even notifying them.
On the other hand I do think it would be smart to either put a copyright sign on your clips or at least a note on your site saying you don't want them reproduced unauthorized or for non-private use...

[AllWeatherGal]

""Copyright © Dressage Monthly, LLC All rights reserved. Material from this website may be used only with written permission of Dressage Monthly, LLC and for non-commercial use only."

That's what should have happened in the first place with HorseDances. Although I doubt it was actually copyrighted, it was probably that those words were posted only.

Again, ask a university professor who teaches law and would know international web rules, have your facts together. You need to prove ownership and at this point I don't know how you do that.

Oh (lightbulb icon please): ask your web host server for a log: can they show when clips were downloaded off your site? Perhaps they have a log of the clips being copied off and the email address that copied them.


It's easy to prove ownership with dated materials ... he's got the original videos and they're dated. If someone can't produce original materials that are dated before that time, he "wins".

The problem is getting anything but a moral victory out of it.

FWIW, I suspect the Theo reads his own logs ;)

Most sites put a general copyright statement at the bottom of their pages and then, if the'yre thoughtful, the content developers take time to note/cite contributing authors. However, many times if you contribute material to a copyrighted site, the site owns your words, not you.

I just looked at the bottom of this page, and there is a copyright for the software by its developers, and a copyright for COTH, but a disclaimer saying they ain't responsible for what we say.

Bottom line ... it's sleazy at best to "borrow" peoples stuff w/out their permission first of all (for that matter, when you post a photo in a message, you should own the copyright or have the copyright holder's permission ... EVEN IF ITS OF YOU!) ... and even if you don't use it for money-making ventures, it is illegal in the U.S. However, in order to get any compensation via legal paths, you must prove that you've been harmed financially (or otherwise).

And when I asked for a non-nationalistic attitude, it wasn't German versus US ... I'm guessing that these videos may find their way to other web spaces ... I typically don't read the Russian language ones or Japanese for that matter, for example, but whose to say there aren't COTH equivalents out there?

Now, having said all THAT, I wouldn't have seen the video w/out the link posted here to the offending site ... I'm glad I got to see it, and very sorry about how that was achieved. My apologies Theo, and thank you for that lovely piece of work!

[Karoline]

Hey Theo, so when you take Mark's name, buy the address and link it to your website, www.marksusol.com that's honorable?

Funny how karma work.

[hb]

One thing that I've noticed living in the US is that if someone from another country does something disagreeable, it's not common for Americans to say "look what the _____'s (French, German, Japanese, etc.) do".

But if an American does something disagreeable, many people from other countries are quick to jump to the "one more example of what's wrong with Americans".

I was on an extended road trip in Canada a few years back, and had dinner at a little diner, and chatted with the waitress. She looked out the window and noticed my license plate and said "oh, you're American? but you're so NICE!".

Whatever.

[fiona]

Hey Theo, so when you take Mark's name, buy the address and link it to your website, www.marksusol.com (http://www.marksusol.com/) that's honorable?


Actually that's just really funny and he did buy it! Now i know why those two don't get on.

[mbm]

Horsedances should not have to worry that his material would be taken and sold...... that is immoral !!!:mad:

i watched the video for free as i am not a subscriber..... so i dont think you can say it is being sold......

i do think they should have given credit tho, but i am kinda with karoline.... this just might be kharma.

[mbm]

Hmmmm, I do not want to get in trouble with all the really nice and honest American people I know, but some can be real scumbags who try to cheat off of others....and the coprorations and politicians really show them how to.

That is one of the things I thoroughly dislike in this country - the emphasis on cheating when you cannot go the high road. It was one of the things that became very obvious to me as a German when we came to this country. We are now Americans and I'm not very proud of this at all.

excuse me?? i dont think americans are any less honest than anyone else. i mean there are entire countries that work on brides and graft, etc.

so please show me some documented proof that states that americans are less honest than the rest of the world.

and if all you know is dishonest people then i suggest you find some new friends etc.

[Dirigo]

Theo
that is truely Rotton!!!!
You have been incredibly kind to share these links with everyone, and you don't deserve this!!
dirigo

[DressageMonthly]

Theo,

There is some confusion going on here.

1st off NO ONE is being charged to view the Video online. It is available for anyone to view at no charge.

2nd-Full Credit was Given to Horse dances International

3rd-YOU GAVE US PERMISSION TO SHOW IT ON THE WEBSITE I EMAILED YOU FIRST! As a cameraman myself I would never steal anyones film work. PERIOD! The file was reduced in size to allow for those with slower connections to be able to view it.

4th-Many people dont like to download anything because of Viruses. This is why it was streamed vs linked to download. Again full credit was given to Horse Dances International.


I have emailed you personally as well. I replied here in order to avoid any further confusion.

R Ilyas

[Jenn2674]

So judging from Dressage Monthly's last post, there are always three sides to every story. His, Hers, and the correct one!

Please people, don't be so quick to assume that everything you read on this board, or the internet, or from your preacher is true!

[DressageMonthly]

90% of all problems is lack of communication or miscommunication. Mistakes happen, people forget things, we are all human.

I responded in order to defend the integrity of our publication. Not start a fight or make anyone mad.

I am not upset with Theo nor do I take his remarks personally. He was upset, when he thought someone was taking footage he posts online for people to enjoy and selling it. I dont think he hates Us or our country because of it.

If there was any miscommunication from our end we do apologize.

Again we did nothing with harmful or "Money Shark" intent.

I have been visiting his website since I cant remember. I have always enjoyed the videos.


I emailed Anky first in order to share the ride with our viewers. She didnt have the rights to it. Only Dutch TV. So when Theo had it on his website I emailed him and asked if it was ok to link to/stream the video from our website.

Full credit was given to HorseDances International for providing the footage.....

Here is the email from Sjef's sister.

Dear Riz,

Thank you very much for you e-mail. However we do not have any legal
copy's of Anky's ride in Den Bosch. Otherwhise we would have put it on
our site already. The Dutch TV has all the rights.

Met vriendelijke groet/ Best regards,

Jokelien Jansen,
Secr. Anky van Grunsven

[TBCheval]

2nd-Full Credit was Given to Horse dances InternationalIndeed. From directly below the video:

Special Thanks to Horse Dances International for providing us with this footage of Anky's Ride.

[bjrudq]

"If I see something wrong in this country or any country, I'll say so. I think we have an obligation to speak out against injustice. Otherwise it is a sign that we quietly agree with what is happening ."

anyone else see the irony here?

[des]

Well, since part of my job as a tech trainer is training web developers for certification, I figured I'd step in on the copyright issue.

Internet law is sometimes vague when crossing borders between countries however US Copyright Law is not vague at all.

Here are some quotes from www.copyright.gov which is published by the US Copyright Office.


HOW TO SECURE A COPYRIGHT
Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation
The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following Note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration."

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music (" copies") or in phonograph disks (" phonorecords"), or both.

If a work is prepared over a period of time, the part of the work that is fixed on a particular date constitutes the created work as of that date.


As for Horsedances' status with the US, I'm fairly sure this part applies:

Published works are eligible for copyright protection in the United States if any one of the following conditions is met:

On the date of first publication, one or more of the authors is a national or domiciliary of the United States, or is a national, domiciliary, or sovereign authority of a treaty party,* or is a stateless person wherever that person may be domiciled; or


And the use of a notice of copyright:

NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT
The use of a copyright notice is no longer required under U. S. law, although it is often beneficial. Because prior law did contain such a requirement, however, the use of notice is still relevant to the copyright status of older works.



NOw, as for Horsedances' alternatives, well I found that video to have been uploaded onto a google server. At the bottom of the video is a small button that says Google. Click on it and it takes you over to Google's video server. Yes it does require a specially configured server to deliver video. The server has to be able to notify the browser of the Mime type. I suggest Horsedances get the URL on google and send Google an email at support@google.com about the breaking of copyright laws here in the States and abroad. Google has a lot more to loose as to copyright. I'm quite sure they will delete the file from their servers.

Des

[Horsedances]

Dear Riz

Here is the Email you send me :

Hi,
I am a member of the Chronicle Forums and would like
to see the Anky World Record ride. I love your site. I
watch the Freestyle videos I downloaded before constantly.

Sincerely,
Riz Ilyas

The credits to Horsedances are added today, and also you have altered the videoclip, shortened it by 36 seconds and even changed the dimensions of it.

If it was your intention to stop this free service of our company , you have managed to do so.

Theo

[DressageMonthly]

Theo,

Gee thanks.. for taking your sight down on our account.

That was the first of five emails I sent you. Go thru your inbox. You will find them.

Also the credits were there right from the get go, but you had to scroll down to read it along with other text on the page. After reading your post I had called the web guy (at home on his day off no less) to have it moved up to avoid any further confusion.

As for resizing/shortening the video the video was encoded using the SWF compressor thru google. This is the only way the video could be streamed reliably. You should look into it for your website, as many people are not computer savvy and/or do not/can not download files due to firewalls and/or Virus Concerns.

Since you are SO upset...on Monday when our tech guy is here I will have him remove the video and any reference to your company from the "Money Shark's" website.

Boy if any of us were working for the money, we sure we wouldnt be doing this for a living. Every person on our staff feels very strongly that there should be more avenues available for us to learn "Really Love our Horses"-Nuno Oliveira. Nuno said that if you love your horse you will learn to ride well.
An unbiased media that will show each method not just the ones attached to big names or popular. Real methods from real trainers/riders/coaches that really work! For less than half the cost of a ONE HOUR RIDING LESSON.


I have a hard time looking at a picture and reading an article and actually grasping the information correctly. "Bend your horse to the inside"...How far to the inside? What is the correct tempo/rythym etc...

This way you can see what is going on. I learn better if someone just shows me, but I cant get out to every clinic or location to learn directly from top trainers. The United States is a big place. You can fit all of your country into half of Texas. So travelling is not so easy to do. Especially with gas at 3 bucks a gallon!

This way I get to go to more clinics! It sure aint for the money though!

Either way, if you are just wanting to have a pity party go right ahead. I am not here to argue with you, simply make it VERY CLEAR that we were not out to "shark" you or anyone else for that matter.

How often do you film these large events?

[Horsedances]

Riz,

Directly when I noticed this posting on COTH and UDBB I have send it to several people in the USA, and asked them what kind of company this was. Nobody noticed anything about the credits, because they were not there <period>. Furthermore I can see that you have edited this page today with the credits and changed (shortened) the videoclip with 34 seconds and made some mistake in the dimensions, because Salinero looks 50 centimeters longer and 50 centimeters smaller now. You have removed the part where Anky went back to the warm-up arena from the videoclip.

No you never send me an Email to ask if you could use these clips for commercial and/or promotional goals, and certainly never got permission from me. And yes I have all my Emails from the last 15 years on-line.
Even all the Email-conversations I had with Kyra Beth from DressageUnltd >10 years ago.;)

So stop making up excuses and just say sorry and live happily ever after.

To answer your last question, I have sponsored and filmed clinics from all big trainers for over 25 years, and when I ever can find the time I will subtitle them and put them on my website.

Theo

[canyonoak]

Thanks Theo for setting the record straight(er).

Yup, I guess there are three sides..and it just takes 3 pages to get to the truth.

[mbm]

so..... since it is a dutch tv video (paid for by them i assume) , did theo sign his rights away to them on the contract? i have seen this on contracts for writers, photographers etc.

plus, doesnt anyone else see the irony here that this was BROADCAST on TV and now theo is having an issue with it being posted on a website for more people to watch (for free?)

as a hypothetical question: would the issue be the same if the video had been taped off the broadcast??

[DressageMonthly]

For the last time. We apologize for any misunderstandings be it our fault or not. Your trying my good nature here.

Go back and read thru my posts. Each and every thing you keep bringing up I have already addressed.:confused: :confused:Why you keep at it I dont understand.

"Every person in the world with a Dressage Saddle really appreciates the fact that you put these videos up. Your a swell guy for doing so and the entire Dressage Community is eternally in your debt. Theo is the best. Theo is the coolest. Theo is really good at working the VCR."

I can change the credits to the above... if it makes you happy??

YES the credits were there right from the beginning. As well as the rest of the text. There is a thing called scrolling. Unfortunately not everyone scrolls to the end of every page, as you have proven. This is why I had it moved up so it would be seen while watching the video and not having too scroll.


Yes I did send you the emails. When this thread started you had no clue, and then you all of a sudden remember some correspondance. Should we wait a bit longer for you to recall the rest of it?

I have apologized for any misunderstanding be it our fault or not. Instead of saying "Hey sorry I made such a big deal about this and I appreciate the fact that someone from Dressage Monthly replied to my post in a very sincere effort to clarify this. I am sorry I offended any other Americans with my words, and it was not personal." you just keep going on.


I explained that the sizing has to do with the compression used by the encoder in order too stream it reliably so PEOPLE CAN SEE IT.


You should really look at your own actions if you are going to be so judgemental of others.

The good thing about this has been I have recieved three other emails from people in Europe... one was even Dutch so being a brat is not a Dutch thing....who also record and play the videos online offering full permission to use their copies. They are more than happy to share them with everyone and thrilled about recieving credit for it. They also requested that since you are not going to let people watch them anymore if you could be so kind as to put a link to their website so people can watch them there instead.

[Horsedances]

You just continue to keep this thing going on yourself.

A. The video was edited today
B. The credits where added today
C. The Email I received from you was posted here

For me the subject is closed.

Theo

[AllWeatherGal]

Guilty as charged re not scrolling the rest of the page to look for attribution! I just went to the video, watched and enjoyed, which as I said, I would not have done w/out the location.

Also as I was riding today, I remembered my own experience of getting my knickers in a twist when an acquaintance used my photos on her site promoting her trail riding business ... I recognized the photos and did not see attribution ... After being steamed for an hour or so, I went through my correspondence with said acquaintance and LO! found my email giving her permission to use the photos on her site and did not specify that I'd like attribution. That she didn't automatically put it there ... well, I didn't specify it in my approval, so I quietly calmed down and ate my hat. The ugly bowler, not my approved hunt-style.

Now we all know a little more about sharing content and the laws around it. I enjoyed the video and thank everyone who had a part in making it available, the Dutch TV, Anky, Salinero, Theo and the gal who posted the link ... and DM, for being stand-up about the situation :)

[DressageMonthly]

Last Tried.

[physical.energy]

Theo for all you have done!

Thank you DM for editing your page to add a thanx to Theo after the fact and pissing him off so his site is no longer available. that was polite of you! :mad: :mad:

[Ghazzu]

DM, that's about as backhanded an "apology" as I've ever seen.

[HXF]

:no: Sorry DM, but your response has just lost a potential customer.

[Jenn2674]

I don't see anything wrong with DM's post especially as accusatory as horsedances got.

DM, can you post the email that you received from horsedances so that maybe everyone can believe you? I mean the one where it says specifically that he gave you permission.

Since it seems to be a case of he said, she said I am leaning towards believing DM. Mostly just because of the attitude that theo has taken in the past. DM seems pretty sincere.

Heck I don't even know why I am wasting my time on this except everyone seems to be ganging up on DM. I'm just bored, nothing on TV, and I am home alone on a sat night...

[Cowgirl]

I'm really sorry about what's happened, Theo. Please don't stop doing it, because there are some of us that really appreciate it.

I did not post on that thread about Anky's ride because I don't need to bang my head against the wall. Plus, the smell of sour grapes is too much to bear.

But thanks for posting the clips. I truly do enjoy them whenever you post them. I am not fortunate enough to be able to fly to these events and see them in person and feel really lucky that someone like you is willing to share them.

[YoungFilly]

Theo, you might want to contact YankeeLawyer and see if this can get resolved. This is not ok in the US. There are lawyers that can handle this type of thing. You are right to be pissed.

[fourh mom]

:)

Well, I'm taking DM's side in this if for no other reason than those posts were easily read and not accusatory... simply explanatory.

HD's posts, especially toward the end, were inflamatory. :D


Plus I'm pretty pissed off at being lumped into a generalized 'badness' of behavior simply because of my nationality. Hey, did ya know we fought a war about attitudes like that over here????

Not cool, HD, not cool at all. sylvia

[mbm]

this just occurred to me......i find it weird that Theo couldnt just go look at the web site himself and see if the credit was there.... he had to rely on friends to look at it for him??? and also, Theo once you "found out" about this, did you think to contact Dressage Monthly before posting here or did you just post here?

Because it seems to me that if you were *really* interested in solving the issue you would have contacted the Organization involved instead of posting on a BB.

[Pommederue]

:)
Plus I'm pretty pissed off at being lumped into a generalized 'badness' of behavior simply because of my nationality. Hey, did ya know we fought a war about attitudes like that over here????

Yes, those were my sentiments exactly but I do really appreciate the videos.

[Karoline]

google: scandals and Germany....tons and tons of pages covering scandals in sports, politics, business

My guess is that if you typed scandals and the country of your choice, there would be pages and pages as well.

Dishonesty is a universal trait. Not the exclusive province of Americans.

[DressageMonthly]

Now that, I am guilty of for sure. My boss is gonna chew my butt for it too. I will take the butt chewing because I have it coming. I did not have my apology thrown in my face coming or at least I didnt feel that I did.

The first 3 apologies, including the one I personally emailed him before I responded here on the BB....which he never responded too...were sincere and from the heart. The last one was backhanded and sarcastic I will admit. I shouldn’t have snapped like that. Long day, long week, I just had a weak moment, maybe a combination of all three.

I kept apologizing and he kept being mad. So if insist on wanting to be mad, let me give you a reason to be that way. I am the same way with my horses and kids. Not saying I am right mind you...just saying how it is.

I don’t know what’s worse. Theo mad because he forgot about my emails or the people who are emailing because they are mad that we even showed Anky's ride. Like our staff was on the judges panel that awarded her the score. They are the judges, she is the highest scoring rider in the world and we simply shared the news. Don’t shoot the messenger!

R word or not, if the judges are rewarding it then they are too blame not the media. I am not saying I am on one side or the other here, just the fact that it is what it is. The Highest SCORING RIDE IN HISTORY. Our job is to present, it is for everyone else to decide what is good or not for their horses and themselves.

The music was great though, I doubt anyone can argue that.

I will find the email that I sent him and he sent back saying it was OK to show the video from our website. I have always loved Theo's website. I must have downloaded Raphaels Freestyle Olympic ride 10 times on different computers just so it was always handy to watch.

I have a question here though...Our policy is not to show anything we dont have permission to so for. Both from an ethic and artistic standpoint.


Theo, did you actually film this yourself and/or acquire the broadcast rights to it?

The reason I am asking is the other people I mentioned in Europe who sent me links to Download have the EXACT same video. Various lengths/quality but EXACTLY the same footage. As a camera man I know I can film the same event as another cameraman, BUT our footage will be different.

Slightly different angles even if we film side by side...shoulder to shoulder.
The close-ups, audio, angles, zoom speed even lighting will be different...etc will be different. NO TWO CAMERAMEN can catch exactly the same shot, not with Film/Video. So I emailed them and asked how they acquired the footage.

One of them replied so far, he stated that it aired on National Dutch TV and he recorded it, and that no one minds there as long as its not resold. I don’t know if its really ok or not...Thats not the point. The point is we want to show footage someone who actually is authorized to let us use, lets us use.

So Theo EXACTLY how did you get this footage? I assumed you were the camera man or owned the television station, since Anky herself could not give us "permission" to air the ride, yet you could, and had so many other videos on your website even the Olympic footage.

Did you ACTUALLY FILM IT and/or own the broadcast rights? Am I missing something here?

Please respond.

[Sabine]

Agreed... I mean, we could go on about germans :rolleyes: but that would be narrowminded of us since we're americans, wouldn't it. ;)

Screw that- you guys are mixing apples and oranges...Theo put these videos up for you poor souls to watch when you live in North Dakota or who knows where and it's not cool to steal and promote on another website- it shows lack of common sense, business sense and ethics. Whoever wants to jump in bed with those folks- have fun- like many said before- if you lay with dogs you smell like one...and that has NOTHING to do with NATIONALITY- and everything to do with kindergarten manners- ethics- basics...stuff you should have learned a long time ago...shame on you!

[Jeepers]

Screw that- you guys are mixing apples and oranges...Theo put these videos up for you poor souls to watch when you live in North Dakota or who knows where and it's not cool to steal and promote on another website- it shows lack of common sense, business sense and ethics. Whoever wants to jump in bed with those folks- have fun- like many said before- if you lay with dogs you smell like one...and that has NOTHING to do with NATIONALITY- and everything to do with kindergarten manners- ethics- basics...stuff you should have learned a long time ago...shame on you!

Tell that to Theo, not me! That was a tongue in cheek statement...

[Sabine]

Tell that to Theo, not me! That was a tongue in cheek statement...


Keep your tongue in your cheek- this is nothing to be smirking about- this sucks- it's something that just took away a lot of fun and possible and much needed education for US dressage riders...for free. While this cheap skate nobody tries to steal some videos to make her site more attractive for subscribers...this is how a great thing gets spoiled and rightfully so- and it makes really understanding what's going on even harder- because those videos you will have to pay for and they will be editted by folks that don't know diddle about what's going on...so there...enjoy!

[Jeepers]

Keep your tongue in your cheek- this is nothing to be smirking about- this sucks- it's something that just took away a lot of fun and possible and much needed education for US dressage riders...for free. While this cheap skate nobody tries to steal some videos to make her site more attractive for subscribers...this is how a great thing gets spoiled and rightfully so- and it makes really understanding what's going on even harder- because those videos you will have to pay for and they will be editted by folks that don't know diddle about what's going on...so there...enjoy!

duuh... read my first couple of posts in this thread... you missed something, get it straight

I just don't like tha fact he made a generalization.

[nero]

DM, great posts. And good to hear a 'rational' explanation to the story.Your explanation sounds completely logical and sensible to me. Not to mention your responses were very civilised.

I can sympathise with you but the more 'right' you become the more abusive Theo will get then he'll just ignore you and the situation. Don't expect an apology.

I'd also like to know, if these videos came from Dutch TV without being credited as such, than Theo can't possibly own the first tier copyright, and possibly has no copyright claim to it at all. If this is the case this could be a example of egg on face mehthinks.

What a twit.

[Noir]

Theo, did you actually film this yourself and/or acquire the broadcast rights to it?


Not that I don't enjoy the videos Theo posts, just as much as anyone else. I'm even from the Pirate Bay Country, and have no moral problems with watching something posted not for profit (although I'm sure it attracts customers for HorseDances)

What will happen if Dutch TV owns the complete rights to this broadcast? Will they post on internet forums "Is this normal behaviour in the Netherlands!! (We're really pissed off)" or is it so that they have actually sent a Cease and Desist letter to HorseDances which is what really brought his site down. Will we ever know?

Theresa

[goeslikestink]

simple copy right rules another easy one post work to yourself recorded delivery -- and dont open it - asit sealed -- that in a court of law is totally legal -- as it dated signed and sealed --

dm and theo i think not that you argue publicly -- implications are two folded
and is printed and can be use by a court law as they if it goes that pull it

think a moderate should close

[Hazelnut]

simple copy right rules another easy one post work to yourself recorded delivery -- and dont open it - asit sealed -- that in a court of law is totally legal -- as it dated signed and sealed --

dm and theo i think not that you argue publicly -- implications are two folded
and is printed and can be use by a court law as they if it goes that pull it

think a moderate should close


I agree, this should be closed. It can not be good for either party.

[sascha]

It can not be good for either party.
I wonder how much interest this has generated in both sites?
Just sayin'...

[CarrieK]

I wonder how much interest this has generated in both sites?
Just sayin'...
Oooh, you cynical thang, you!

;)

While I appreciate the OP's desire to alert us to possible copyright infringers (altho if the OP lifted this from TV or DVD or whatever the OP may, indeed, be a copyright infringer also), and while I appreciate the accused party's desire to air his/her side of things, I think the messages have turned into a personal argument in public and they should now take their continuing comments elsewhere more private.

[Pommederue]

It seems to me that Theo has a habit of posting videos for all to enjoy then throwing a tantrum and punishing everyone by removing them. DM has apologized several times. Let it go.:rolleyes:

[ideayoda]

Everytime I have gone to the DM site it has given credit to TvB. And the amount of time I dont get emails (from different sources) seems to be more and more often. If it is shown for free, credited.....whats the problem? Isnt that like quoting a source in a term paper?

[Jenn2674]

Yes, those were my sentiments exactly but I do really appreciate the videos.

Oh we all appreciate the videos but I'm not about to kiss butt for them. I think Theo was out of line and very unprofessional. Mistakes happen (although to me it sounds like HD was in the wrong anyway) and he should have addressed it first with DM.

[stuge]

I think the point that everyone is missing here is that it sounds like HorseDances does not even have the copyright to that ride so he has absolutely no right to badmouth DressageMonthly.

I want to know if this is normal behavior in the Netherlands, or wherever the heck Theo/Horsedances is from? To be so rude and unprofessional and attack someone for something either a) somthing he has no rights too (i.e. no copyright on AvG's ride anyway), b) a perhaps honest mistake (if infact DM didn't put credits on the site which IMO it sounds like they did) or c) his own stupid error because he forgot that he gave her permission or replyed to her when he thought it was someone else or for whatever reason he may have given permission for them to post the video and then plain ole' forgot about it!

Sorry, just because he pressed record on his DVD player and posted the ride on the internet does not mean he has the rights to Anky's ride. It is my gut feeling that he did not record that ride and he has absolutely nothing to do with Dutch TV.

Sorry, he lost crediblity in my eyes a long time ago especially when he starts accuses americans that way.

[YankeeLawyer]

On a side note, can anyone share here how one can make sensitive items on a website non-copyable? I have seen it on some, but do not know how to do it. I'd like to incorporate this in a website I am designing for a Lipizzan breeder.

Try PTing a COTHer called Sci_Blades
His family's website has this feature, and I believe he is very computer savvy. He could probably tell you how to add the "no right-click" feature.

[physical.energy]

I'd also like to know about that feature

[DocHF]

chugga chugga chugga chugga
chugga chugga chugga chugga
CHOOO CHOOO.

unfortunately, this is normal behavior for this forum and this dutchman.

[Noir]

Those features usually only keeps the most basic users away from your files. A right-click stopping script will be very easy to pass if one knows anything about HTML-code, since one can look through the code of the page and pick the file directly. There are also more sophisticated things like W-get (sp?) and using a scanning on ones firewall protocoll while clicking for the video to play. The "hacking possibilities" are endless. But of course not for basic users.

T

[mbm]

so this all leads me to the question: all those videos that Theo posts.... whose are they? is he infringing on the copyrights of others?

Theo??????

[AllyB]

As a film professional, I might point out that it is impossible for Theo himself to have filmed the event. He could have been only one of many cameramen, but I doubt even that since he posted the video within two hours on his website, he could NOT have wrapped the venue and gotten home in time to do it.
The event was a professional job taking many people, a professional production booth with a director calling the camera angles for instant editing. It would have required hours of set-up and hours of wrap. Unless Theo IS Dutch national TV, he recorded it.

[Noir]

Theo himself being awfully quiet...

[professor]

Monthly dressage thanks very much, wonderfull action and good move.

Many, many people now are banned to watch these videos.

[mbm]

Monthly dressage thanks very much, wonderfull action and good move.

Many, many people now are banned to watch these videos.

i guess you didnt get that HD probably has no right to be showing the videos?? ie:he is doing exactly what he accused DM of doing?

(and i bet that he was told by the powers that be totake it all down and he used this as the excuse)

theo??? still waiting to hear your sideof the storyy.....

[professor]

I don't care about copyrights. 99 procent of the comments on this boards come from books which where writen by others. Most clips are on the HD website already for at least 8 years and nobody cared, so let HD take care of his/her/their bussiness themselfs. The result of this action of MD is that we can't see with our own eyes what is happening in the dressageworld.

MD why don't you show us the mail from HD in which they give you permission to use this clip.

Again many thanks
















.

[beejoux]

From everything I've read on this board (and I've been lurking for quite some time), Theo just likes passing these videoes off as his, even though they are clearly rebroadcasts, and then gets all pissy and comes here looking for sympathey and stroking. Drama queen if you ask me. He stirs up crap for other people and then runs away.

Thanks to Dressage Monthly for making the videos more accessible for more people than just Dutch TV viewers.

[Karoline]

Theo and Professor are one and the same?

[WBLover]

Well, according to recent legislation (and I'm not a lawyer, but this is what I heard) anything that was originally broadcast on TV is up for grabs off the internet, and downloading any TV broadcast (I would think it doesn't matter from where), is NOT considered copywright infringement because the broadcast was originally free, so it's not considered "stealing". However, downloading music and movies which you would normally have to pay for IS illegal.

If Theo had filmed this himself, and normally charges a fee for these clips, he would have to have a secure website where people have to pay to see. Then, if someone were to download a clip they paid for, then proceed to distribute it either for money or for free to others, it would be illegal and Theo would have a leg to stand on.

But if it was free to the public (and free to Theo) in the first place, it's up for grabs. Sorry folks!! If Theo chooses to publish already free media on the internet, it's available!! Like it or not.

The fact that DM still credited Theo for doing the work to record and post the clip (and I do believe that she did) is just a courtesy on her part and she didn't legally need to do so.

Oh, and I DO take offense to the offhanded question of whether this is "normal behavior in the USA". What on earth has nationality have to do with it? There are dishonest people all over the world, and in this case, I don't feel any dishonesty has been committed!

[MissFit]

....anything that was originally broadcast on TV is up for grabs off the internet, and downloading any TV broadcast (I would think it doesn't matter from where), is NOT considered copywright infringement because the broadcast was originally free...

I'm pretty sure this is not true. All content, whether on "freeview" or not, is held in copyright by someone. This is how the "Seinfelds" and "Friends" of the world keep making money after the show is over (in syndication..). Even if it was shown "for free" (aka on a non-cable channel)--it is still someone's creative property and therefore NOT up for grabs. Now, I'm not saying that the argument couldn't be made that they should be available--I'm just saying that, right now, I'm pretty sure that all media-content is protected and that includes stuff on NBC/ABC what have you.

The content belongs to its "owner" and can only be copied for "personal" and reasonable uses (ie making a tape to watch later)--but should not be distributed to others (as-in on the web).

[siegi b.]

Nice going, you all..... Apparently you prescribe to the "guilty until proven innocent" principle. Your speculations regarding Theo's "right" to publish videos are mind-boggling! And Dressage Monthly, why don't you show us Theo's e-mail where he did give you permission to use the videos? You seem to have all your "facts", so let's see them.

Here we had access to world-class dressage videos within a day of competition, and now you guys are sitting around congratulating yourselves on how you've spoiled it all for the rest of us?

Nice going.... what a wonderful bunch of people. And why am I not surprised that it's the usual cast of characters? What, the RK subject is getting too boring for you?

[WBLover]

It still goes back to the fact that if Theo didn't have the copyright in the first place, he doesn't have the right to enforce any copyright infringement. If it was televised, the production company or network holds those rights.

Theo is the one who made the choice to lock down his website, he can choose to bring it back up. It is a shame he did it, but we are not the ones who took it down, neither is DM. Plead your case to Theo.

[Coreene]

ROT OP!

Your friend,

Coreene
TEAM THEO :cool:

[mbm]

Nice going, you all..... Apparently you prescribe to the "guilty until proven innocent" principle. Your speculations regarding Theo's "right" to publish videos are mind-boggling! And Dressage Monthly, why don't you show us Theo's e-mail where he did give you permission to use the videos? You seem to have all your "facts", so let's see them.

Here we had access to world-class dressage videos within a day of competition, and now you guys are sitting around congratulating yourselves on how you've spoiled it all for the rest of us?

Nice going.... what a wonderful bunch of people. And why am I not surprised that it's the usual cast of characters? What, the RK subject is getting too boring for you?

are you serious?! theo started this... if he had not been a drama queen and tried to put one over on everyone saying that he had rights to those videos when it looks like he in fact does NOT. (i still am betting money that he was told to shut that site down and wanted to make it look like he took it down becuase we pissed him off. )

i am still waiting to hear HOW theo has rights to those videos....

his site is a nice resource, but its it looks like its not his stuff and it is HIS fault that this drama is playing out.

edited to add that this "Apparently you prescribe to the "guilty until proven innocent" principle. " also would apply to DM... dontcha think??

[siegi b.]

What can I say... mbm.. your speculations are quite creative and your venom is based on NOTHING!

ROT OP!!!!

[Horsedances]

As you can see at some other threads I spend "some days at the races".
To assist, support and meet with my clients and watch some horses which are for sale.

I had closed this subject because every normal thinking man or woman could have noticed that MD is playing a game, and I don't want to repeat myself everytime.

All the videoclips will be online within a week, but will be protected by a username and password. Our provider is working on this.

And to all the good people I just want to say "Sorry for all this mess"

Theo

[Noir]

How "creative" does one have to be to spot the TV logo in the corner of the movie screen?

T

[Horsedances]

How "creative" does one have to be to spot the TV logo in the corner of the movie screen?

T

Theresa,

Why worrie, you stated that you hate to watch these videoclips. :yes: :D

So don't watch ;)

[mbm]

What can I say... mbm.. your speculations are quite creative and your venom is based on NOTHING!

ROT OP!!!!

this thread (well actually this whole BB) is a wonderful study in human nature.

I am learning a ton each and every day i visit here :) :yes:

[Horsedances]

this thread (well actually this whole BB) is a wonderful study in human nature.

I am learning a ton each and every day i visit here :) :yes:

Maybe MBM you should take in consideration that there are people on this earth who have to type with a pencil connected to their helmet. It takes hours for them to send me an Email to ask me not to shut down this service. Did you take that in consideration in your study of human nature ?

I don't think so......

[snowpony]

Maybe MBM you should take in consideration that there are people on this earth who have to type with a pencil connected to their helmet. It takes hours for them to send me an Email to ask me not to shut down this service. Did you take that in consideration in your study of human nature ?

I don't think so......

What??? This makes less and less sense.

What the heck does HorseDances or Dressage Monthly's potential copyright infringements have to do with people who have to "write with a pencil connected to their helmet"?

Relevant facts include:

1. In the USA at least, it IS illegal to copy and distribute television footage whether you charge a fee or not. I don't know if Dutch law is different here, but the fact that the videos existed on a website for years does not mean they were there legally.

2. The videos I saw from HD's site featured a prominent TV network logo, not a HorseDances logo

3. Therefore, either Theo HAS permission to distribute this footage, from the TV network, or he is stealing/breaking their copyright infringement.

4. IF Theo doesn't have the rights, he can't give anyone else permission to distribute it either. In that case, the Monthly is also breaking copyright law, albeit unknowingly (thinking that Theo was the holder of those rights).

[beejoux]

In any case, what Theo has done in starting this thread and pointing a nasty finger at Dressage Monthly is commonly called "defammation" (whether it be libel or slander) in the US. It is illegal in all 50 states as far as I know.

Is defammation normal behavior in Holland??

:rolleyes:

[J Swan]

I hope not - they'll all go blind and grow hair on their palms.

The term is defamation, actually.

Sorry - it's late and I took painkillers.....can't help myself...


In any case, what Theo has done in starting this thread and pointing a nasty finger at Dressage Monthly is commonly called "defammation" (whether it be libel or slander) in the US. It is illegal in all 50 states as far as I know.

Is defammation normal behavior in Holland??

:rolleyes:

[beejoux]

:lol: Fortunately, bad spelling isn't illegal in the states! :yes:

[mbm]

Maybe MBM you should take in consideration that there are people on this earth who have to type with a pencil connected to their helmet. It takes hours for them to send me an Email to ask me not to shut down this service. Did you take that in consideration in your study of human nature ?

I don't think so......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: <snort> no, theo, i didnt take that into consideration ...... but thanks for pointing it out to me.....

(i have this image of a person leaning over a typewrite trying to tap out their message to theo with the pencil connected to their helmet)

OMG - thats SOOOOO funnyy!!!!!!

(edited to make VERY clear - i am NOT making fun of anyone - except perhaps myself for the silly images that popped into my head reading what theo wrote)

[staceyk]

Hi,

I think some of these posts are incorrect. Aside from proving you are the author, your work is protected upon creation. Again, this is assuming you clearly establish authorship. From the US Govt Copyright Web site...

Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation
The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following Note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration."

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music (" copies") or in phonograph disks (" phonorecords"), or both.

[egontoast]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: <snort> no, theo, i didnt take that into consideration ...... but thanks for pointing it out to me.....

(i have this image of a person leaning over a typewrite trying to tap out their message to theo with the pencil connected to their helmet)

OMG - thats SOOOOO funnyy!!!!!!

hilarious:confused:

ps must you turn this board into a replica of your homeport?

[nhwr]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: <snort> no, theo, i didnt take that into consideration ...... but thanks for pointing it out to me.....

(i have this image of a person leaning over a typewrite trying to tap out their message to theo with the pencil connected to their helmet)

OMG - thats SOOOOO funnyy!!!!!!
Not funny, it is the way many quadriplegics type/use computers :no:

[belambi]

I would imagine that Theo is referring to a number of my para athletes who get a great kick out of watching his videos.. as do many of us who also live in places where that calibre of sport etc is just not accessible

[mbm]

Not funny, it is the way many quadriplegics type/use computers :no:

i appologise if i offened anyone that was NOT my intent.

if theo was talking about quadriplegics he didnt do a very good job getting that accross -

i also wasnt the only person who was confused about his post - i just chose to laugh at the silly image that popped into my head - no offense intended to anyone.

[belambi]

Not at all..I dont think any one was offended..a simple misunderstanding..can happen to any one

[Horsedances]

I would imagine that Theo is referring to a number of my para athletes who get a great kick out of watching his videos.. as do many of us who also live in places where that calibre of sport etc is just not accessible

Yes Belambi, go to Coby van Baalen's website and you will notice how these kind of people enjoy the beauty of the dressage-sport, and how much our topriders do for these kids. The last CDI*** at Geesteren they raised ++Euro 52.000,== for the disabled riders.

[DressageMonthly]

How EXACTLY did you aquire this footage.

I have found the email that you sent me saying it was ok to post a link to the videos. I will post it as soon as you answer our question.

This is very important. Our lawyer has contacted Dutch TV to find out who really has the rights as we dont want to do anything illegal.

Until Theo publicly declares how he aquired this footage we have been advised not too take his "credit" down, between his emails and this thread we are protected at least a little, if Theo has in fact been pirating these videos and then to top if off giving permission he wasnt authorized to give to use the footage.

As for Theo Taking his site down because of this, Dressage Monthly is going to make it up to everyone. We have a special project that should be live within a week that will feature clips FREE OF CHARGE that we hope will help, as well as entertain horses and riders everywhere.

Now Theo I am going to ask you this again. How exactly did you aquire this footage. Do you indeed have the rights to it or did you record it off of television.

[Karoline]

It is never boring here.

[Pommederue]

Dressage Monthly is going to make it up to everyone. We have a special project that should be live within a week that will feature clips FREE OF CHARGE that we hope will help, as well as entertain horses and riders everywhere.

Thanks! You will have a new customer:yes:

[siegi b.]

Dressage Monthly - if you could only understand how many subscriptions you're losing by not knowing when to quit the posturing.

You have Theo's e-mail giving you permission to use the videos, BUT you're not showing it until he tells you where he got them from?????? At what point do you throw yourself on the floor and start thrashing around in a temper tantrum?

Yikes!

[Ghazzu]

How EXACTLY did you aquire this footage.

I have found the email that you sent me saying it was ok to post a link to the videos. I will post it as soon as you answer our question.

.

Umm,isn't permission to post a link to the video a little different than posting the video istself?

[DressageMonthly]

:confused: Boy I am sitting here really scratching my head on this one? Me throwing a temper tantrum? :confused:

Did I take our website down because I was upset? No our staff even offered to make up for his tantrum by posting what we hope will be helpful clips available for anyone too view at no charge.

I have to warn you on top of being an American, I am also a Texan. So this could get abrasive….The gloves are about to come off. I am going to make one more sincere effort.

I have been as nice and respectful, as I can be about all of this. Due to the fact that I am representing Dressage Monthly Video Magazine here. Instead of taking all of this into consideration I have been called a Scumbag, Sleazy, a Theif and I forget what else by some misinformed people. And defended by many others, to whom I am grateful. It is nice to know there are people who will step up for someone.


Believe me if it wasn’t for that, my responses to

1. Having my Country Insulted
2. Being Called a Liar
3. The tantrums and rantings of a spoiled brat whose parents did not teach any manners, and who needs a good spanking..

... would have been very different.

Had it not been for being a professional I would gladly give him what his parents forgot too.

Maybe Theo forgot, maybe he just likes to be the center of attention (aka Drama Mama), either way I did nothing wrong and have gone above and beyond what any reasonable person would expect. So now I am gonna put it in very plain black and white terms.

He himself says he gets hundreds of requests via Email. So unless he can walk on water, and or turn water into wine it wouldn’t be unthinkable to think that he could possibly forget things like the rest of us mere mortals.


Lets not forget the fact that I also emailed Anky for permission. (That email is posted earlier in this thread too) Why if I was just out to pirate footage would I email the person riding to ask for permission?


Lets also not forget the fact that this is the same THEO who registered another persons name and points the URL to his website. www.marksusol.com. Mark runs the Ultimate Dressage Bulletin Board. I did not this before. So if Character is at question I have to really wonder why so many people jumped to the conclusion or are holding on the the idea that I am the scumbag here.


1.If the video was going to be put up with no credit for Horsedances why wouldn’t I just say we had received the footage from someone else? Maybe they got it from his website and sent it to us, or maybe they recorded it from TV.-Which is what this is looking like more and more. It is very likely Theo has no rights to let us use the clip, nor show those clips on his website. He is using clips recorded from Television to promote his music.-

He gets hundreds of emails asking for the link. Surely no one else could have downloaded it and emailed it to us to show. I mean it says Horse Dances right at the front of the clip doesn’t it?? ……………..NOT!!!

Now copyright for Television programming aired free is a murky area as far as legalities go. So not saying he is doing something illegal by posting clips he recorded on TV, but certainly he has no copyrights to it, and unless he owns the only VCR in all of Europe he cant possibly say any and all footage is his and can only be shown from his website. Even if someone acquired it from his website.


Then instead of emailing us, he posts accusatory nonsense on a BB to get attention or whatever his motivation.

Ranting and raving and insulting people who are INNOCENT, accusing INNOCENT people for what he himself is intentionally guilty of.

For those of you who still can not comprehend what is really going on……Its like Hitler getting upset for being persecuted!

2. Why would I put all of this effort into setting the record straight?

3. Sure it helped promote the magazine, hopefully it helped people and entertained them as well……. however we are not money sharks. We give our subscribers over TWO HOURS of information from the best in the world for 25 bucks a month....I tell you what, you go find any training or informational DVD on dressage for 25 bucks. Regardless of length, much less two hours. Theo offers these videos to promote the sales of his CD's and Freestyle design services which by the way is 48 or so dollars per CD! and by no means low or affordable prices for designing a freestyle. Nothing wrong with that except for the fact that he might very well NOT have the rights to do so.


5. We did not sell the footage in any way shape or form. Simply offered it for people to see with FULL CREDIT to Horsedances.

6. Theo is not very well versed in Streaming Media. The browser will detect your modem speed and play back an appropriate size file according to the speed you are receiving from your ISP. There are three versions of the clip uploaded. OF varying file size. If parts were clipped out they were done so in consideration of people with slower online speeds. So his rantings and ravings about whatever he thinks is/was changed is unfounded.


My butt is on the line here, I want to know the truth. Did I make the mistake of assuming he has the rights or did I goof up and expose us to a liability.

Someone earlier said if you lie with dogs, you will smell like a dog. "The ACTUAL saying is "If you lie with dogs, you will get up with fleas." As I said in the beginning of my post, this all started with permission Theo gave me, I now am sitting here scratching my head.


You call it posturing I say its calling him out. A Wild West Term. As I write this post I find myself humming the words to a song I like by Toby Keith..

This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you'll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
'Cause we'll put a boot in your ….
It's the American way


Now you want the email....


Here it is.

On Tue, 23 May 2006 14:39:18
<horsedances@skynet.be> wrote:

Hi,

That is fine.

Enjoy,

Theo

On Tue, 23 May 2006 04:42:21
<coolhorse@zipmail.com> wrote:

Hi Theo,



Thanks for the link. I really appreciate it.


Would it be ok if we display this on our website? I think people would really like to see it.

Sincerely,

Riz

On Sun, 21 May 2006 16:39:18
<horsedances@skynet.be> wrote:

Hi ,


All videos of the last WorldCup Rides are gathered at the followin link :

http://www.horsedances.net/VideoKeuzeMenu3.html


Enjoy,

Theo

----- Original Message ----- From: <coolhorse@zipmail.com>
To: <videos@skynet.be>
Cc: <horsedances@skynet.be>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 07:12
Subject: Download Videos


Hi,
I am a member of the Chronicle Forums and would like to > see the Anky World Record ride. I love your site. I watch > the Freestyle videos I downloaded before constantly.
Sincerely,
Riz Ilyas
________________________________________________
Don't E-Mail, ZipMail! http://www.zipmail.com/


________________________________________________
Don't E-Mail, ZipMail! http://www.zipmail.com/


________________________________________________
Don't E-Mail, ZipMail! http://www.zipmail.com/

[Sabine]

Dressage Monthly - if you could only understand how many subscriptions you're losing by not knowing when to quit the posturing.

You have Theo's e-mail giving you permission to use the videos, BUT you're not showing it until he tells you where he got them from?????? At what point do you throw yourself on the floor and start thrashing around in a temper tantrum?

Yikes!

right on- this does not smell good to me...therefore I will stay far from it...and yes- you may be from Texas or any other state- that is completely unimportant...this is not how you run a class operation...you're digging yourself a deeper hole with every post....:(

[goeslikestink]

i say again close the threads-- moderates

this is not doing anyone any favours --


i am in england -- and altho i do not read dm nor do i know hd or theo or whatever his name is personally i dont care if they come from tim buck two

but i can see this is going a-- no where- b-- very disruptive
c-- can be court case for which all post replys can be taken in evidence--

2-- perosnal - attacks 3-- maybe iam dm poster but iwould be very careful becuase your job could be on the line i personaly think you have said to much

[DressageMonthly]

Sabine....What does someone say to your comments?

http://waltonfeed.com/pic/ostrich.gif


Siegl B. .....Ironic is not even close to describing this mess....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boy I am sitting here really scratching my head on this one? Me throwing a temper tantrum?

Did I take our website down because I was upset? No our staff even offered to make up for his tantrum by posting what we hope will be helpful clips available for anyone too view at no charge.

I have to warn you on top of being an American, I am also a Texan. So this could get abrasive….The gloves are about to come off. I am going to make one more sincere effort.

I have been as nice and respectful, as I can be about all of this. Due to the fact that I am representing Dressage Monthly Video Magazine here. Instead of taking all of this into consideration I have been called a Scumbag, Sleazy, a Theif and I forget what else by some misinformed people. And defended by many others, to whom I am grateful. It is nice to know there are people who will step up for someone.


Believe me if it wasn’t for that, my responses to

1. Having my Country Insulted
2. Being Called a Liar
3. The tantrums and rantings of a spoiled brat whose parents did not teach any manners, and who needs a good spanking..

... would have been very different.

Had it not been for being a professional I would gladly give him what his parents forgot too.

Maybe Theo forgot, maybe he just likes to be the center of attention (aka Drama Mama), either way I did nothing wrong and have gone above and beyond what any reasonable person would expect. So now I am gonna put it in very plain black and white terms.

He himself says he gets hundreds of requests via Email. So unless he can walk on water, and or turn water into wine it wouldn’t be unthinkable to think that he could possibly forget things like the rest of us mere mortals.


Lets not forget the fact that I also emailed Anky for permission. (That email is posted earlier in this thread too) Why if I was just out to pirate footage would I email the person riding to ask for permission?


Lets also not forget the fact that this is the same THEO who registered another persons name and points the URL to his website. www.marksusol.com. Mark runs the Ultimate Dressage Bulletin Board. I did not this before. So if Character is at question I have to really wonder why so many people jumped to the conclusion or are holding on the the idea that I am the scumbag here.


1.If the video was going to be put up with no credit for Horsedances why wouldn’t I just say we had received the footage from someone else? Maybe they got it from his website and sent it to us, or maybe they recorded it from TV.-Which is what this is looking like more and more. It is very likely Theo has no rights to let us use the clip, nor show those clips on his website. He is using clips recorded from Television to promote his music.-

He gets hundreds of emails asking for the link. Surely no one else could have downloaded it and emailed it to us to show. I mean it says Horse Dances right at the front of the clip doesn’t it?? ……………..NOT!!!

Now copyright for Television programming aired free is a murky area as far as legalities go. So not saying he is doing something illegal by posting clips he recorded on TV, but certainly he has no copyrights to it, and unless he owns the only VCR in all of Europe he cant possibly say any and all footage is his and can only be shown from his website. Even if someone acquired it from his website.


Then instead of emailing us, he posts accusatory nonsense on a BB to get attention or whatever his motivation.

Ranting and raving and insulting people who are INNOCENT, accusing INNOCENT people for what he himself is intentionally guilty of.

For those of you who still can not comprehend what is really going on……Its like Hitler getting upset for being persecuted!

2. Why would I put all of this effort into setting the record straight?

3. Sure it helped promote the magazine, hopefully it helped people and entertained them as well……. however we are not money sharks. We give our subscribers over TWO HOURS of information from the best in the world for 25 bucks a month....I tell you what, you go find any training or informational DVD on dressage for 25 bucks. Regardless of length, much less two hours. Theo offers these videos to promote the sales of his CD's and Freestyle design services which by the way is 48 or so dollars per CD! and by no means low or affordable prices for designing a freestyle. Nothing wrong with that except for the fact that he might very well NOT have the rights to do so.


5. We did not sell the footage in any way shape or form. Simply offered it for people to see with FULL CREDIT to Horsedances.

6. Theo is not very well versed in Streaming Media. The browser will detect your modem speed and play back an appropriate size file according to the speed you are receiving from your ISP. There are three versions of the clip uploaded. OF varying file size. If parts were clipped out they were done so in consideration of people with slower online speeds. So his rantings and ravings about whatever he thinks is/was changed is unfounded.


My butt is on the line here, I want to know the truth. Did I make the mistake of assuming he has the rights or did I goof up and expose us to a liability.

Someone earlier said if you lie with dogs, you will smell like a dog. "The ACTUAL saying is "If you lie with dogs, you will get up with fleas." As I said in the beginning of my post, this all started with permission Theo gave me, I now am sitting here scratching my head.


You call it posturing I say its calling him out. A Wild West Term. As I write this post I find myself humming the words to a song I like by Toby Keith..

This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you'll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
'Cause we'll put a boot in your ….
It's the American way


Now you want the email....


Here it is.

On Tue, 23 May 2006 14:39:18
<horsedances@skynet.be> wrote:

Hi,

That is fine.

Enjoy,

Theo

On Tue, 23 May 2006 04:42:21
<coolhorse@zipmail.com> wrote:

Hi Theo,



Thanks for the link. I really appreciate it.


Would it be ok if we display this on our website? I think people would really like to see it.

Sincerely,

Riz

On Sun, 21 May 2006 16:39:18
<horsedances@skynet.be> wrote:

Hi ,


All videos of the last WorldCup Rides are gathered at the followin link :

http://www.horsedances.net/VideoKeuzeMenu3.html


Enjoy,

Theo

----- Original Message ----- From: <coolhorse@zipmail.com>
To: <videos@skynet.be>
Cc: <horsedances@skynet.be>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 07:12
Subject: Download Videos


Hi,
I am a member of the Chronicle Forums and would like to > see the Anky World Record ride. I love your site. I watch > the Freestyle videos I downloaded before constantly.
Sincerely,
Riz Ilyas
________________________________________________
Don't E-Mail, ZipMail! http://www.zipmail.com/


________________________________________________
Don't E-Mail, ZipMail! http://www.zipmail.com/


________________________________________________
Don't E-Mail, ZipMail! http://www.zipmail.com/

[Sabine]

DM- why are you reposting your whole e-mail again? I read it on Page 6- now it's again on Page 7- why- it's not that I can't read. I got it.

It's just not a good enough explanation. I think it's better to take this off-line..

[nero]

Um, I'm lost, hasn't DM just vindicated herself by showing the email granting her permission to use videos on her website. I'm TOTALLY confused ;-)

[Alagirl]

Um, I'm lost, hasn't DM just vindicated herself by showing the email granting her permission to use videos on her website. I'm TOTALLY confused ;-)

Have a beer, Sweety, it'll all clear up!

[nero]

Have a beer, Sweety, it'll all clear up!


Too bloody right, I might just do that.

Maybe I'm just naive and the truth is that the emails were fabricated 8-)

[Alagirl]

Too bloody right, I might just do that.

Maybe I'm just naive and the truth is that the emails were fabricated 8-)

the whole thread is Bullsh*t...but Theo is the resident spoon, after all!

[Noir]

Theresa,

Why worrie, you stated that you hate to watch these videoclips. :yes: :D

So don't watch ;)

Nope, I stated that I liked to watch them just as much as anyone. I am, however, very interested in the truth. In this matter as well. Not like I would try to report you to Dutch Tv or something. Just want to know. It interests me.

Theresa