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View Full Version : Nutrition people...Calf Manna vs. Rice Bran



runNjump86
Jan. 13, 2013, 05:58 PM
as a fat supplement?

My big TB is a medium keeper...he doesn't eat me out of house and home, but he does require a hefty helping of hay. We have put about 100lb on him in a couple of months, and we want to keep him at this weight while changing his muscling.

He is currently getting 15lbs of Bermuda in the morning, and roughly 5lb Bermuda and 10lb of Orchard at night. This keeps him busy for a few hours. He is also getting 6lbs of Triple Crown senior and 2lbs of Calf Manna a day, broken into two feedings. He looks GREAT.

The problem is, he's HOT. He went from being a bit lazy to being Mr. Piaffe under saddle...and we are definitely not at the piaffe level. :lol: I am not sure if he's just feeling a lot better now that he's healthier, or if the Calf Manna is a trigger. I started noticing a difference after adding the CM.

I'm almost out of the CM and was wondering if I should keep him on it but knock it back to 1lb/day, or if rice bran would be a good substitute without making him so gung-ho.

Advice?

msj
Jan. 13, 2013, 08:13 PM
Have you considered using corn or vegetable oil instead?

There are 1927 calories/cup in either corn or vegetable oil and you can safely give 2 cups of oil/day. I've used that for retired horses that are hard keepers that I don't want to give a lot of grain and have had a lot of luck with it. :)

fordtraktor
Jan. 13, 2013, 08:31 PM
It may not be the feed but the fact he's not skinny any more that is causing the issue. I have known many the calm, skinny horse that turned into a fireball when receiving adequate groceries. it is one reason I never evaluate temperament in a rescue horse...can't really tell what they are going to be like under saddle until they are fattened up.

That said, I would definitely try 8 pounds TC Senior and ditch the CM/RB altogether. My fiesty TB stays quietest that way. I add a cup of Omega Horseshine a day when he is in heavy work.

AliCat518
Jan. 13, 2013, 08:35 PM
Rice Bran made my 33 year old ottb HOT! I'm talking almost unmanageable on the ground hot. He would pull me down the barn aisle, rear, gallop, get loose, and generally just go nuts. Took him off of it and he calmed down.

I love triple crown senior for just about every horse that needs grain.

Ruby G. Weber
Jan. 13, 2013, 08:52 PM
Calf Manna is primarily a protein supplement, it's first ingredient being soy bean meal. Rice Bran is a fat supplement. Both could be responsible for your horse's exuberance. I recommend Platinum Performance. It is a well balanced supplement providing the accepted ratio of O-3 and O-6 fats from flax seed and rice ran as well as other ingredients.

Also I find it much more difficult to put weight on a horse in winter.

doublesstable
Jan. 13, 2013, 09:03 PM
TC and Calf Manna can be part of your energy issue. I have found feeding Orchard hay and a ration balancer is all they really need.

There are many great balancers depending on where you live. I am not a fan of Rice or Wheat bran. All nutritional courses I have taken do not recommend them to be fed. Not a TC fan either or calf manna.


These are some great companies:
Buckeye for grass hay
Progressive Diet for grass hay
Stam 30
Pennfield

If you find something Kentucky Equine Research (KER) formulates or supports that is excellent.

I have never had issues with weight on horses.

I think you need to remove the Bermuda... it's not a great hay and up your Orchard hay. In the summer you can add a little alfalfa.

I think a large horse should eat 35 to 40 lbs of hay a day....

RedMare01
Jan. 13, 2013, 10:34 PM
Some horses need more calories than hay + ration balancer can provide, especially in the winter.

Have you tried simply removing the CM and upping the TC Senior to 8 lbs? I don't know how many calories are in CM, but rice bran has roughly 1200 per pound, while TC Senior has 1500ish. So you'd be getting more bang for your buck with the TC.

As far as the hotness...could be a combo of more energy (since he's finally getting enough food) to the time year (cold) to less turnout? Does he get enough time out in the pasture?

doublesstable
Jan. 13, 2013, 11:26 PM
Some horses need more calories than hay + ration balancer can provide, especially in the winter.



Never experienced the need for more calories not covered by hay and balancers.... Even with TB's.

When the horse is "hot" feeding enough Orchard or Timothy hay will go a long way. I feel too many people just don't feed enough hay. And when a horse is getting proper nutrients from the balancers you will find the weight happens.

If you need more calories that's where you can add alfalfa or even oats to the ration balancer. In the 20 years I have been using ration balancers I have never needed to add oats however.

AliCat518
Jan. 13, 2013, 11:42 PM
Whew doublestable, you feed 35-40 lbs of hay per day to ONE horse???

My horses stay in good weight (if not a little chunky this winter) on about 20-25lbs each per day.

RedMare01
Jan. 14, 2013, 12:12 AM
Double S, I see you're in CA. Do you have hard winters where you are?

doublesstable
Jan. 14, 2013, 01:28 AM
Double S, I see you're in CA. Do you have hard winters where you are?

Can get below 20 here.. but were pretty mild. Saying that; a lot of the research and formulation KER does is in the colder areas of the world. It's worth checking out... this diet has worked for many I know and some are in fact in cooler areas than I.

But - - horses are fun and you just never know what they are up to. They are all individuals.

runNjump86
Jan. 14, 2013, 02:04 AM
TC and Calf Manna can be part of your energy issue. I have found feeding Orchard hay and a ration balancer is all they really need.

There are many great balancers depending on where you live. I am not a fan of Rice or Wheat bran. All nutritional courses I have taken do not recommend them to be fed. Not a TC fan either or calf manna.


These are some great companies:
Buckeye for grass hay
Progressive Diet for grass hay
Stam 30
Pennfield

If you find something Kentucky Equine Research (KER) formulates or supports that is excellent.

I have never had issues with weight on horses.

I think you need to remove the Bermuda... it's not a great hay and up your Orchard hay. In the summer you can add a little alfalfa.

I think a large horse should eat 35 to 40 lbs of hay a day....

The Bermuda he is getting is high quality. And Pennfield doesn't ship to CA since last year, so....yeah. I am a fan of the Triple Crown grain. He was not hot on it before adding the CM, which is another supplement I've had success with in the past on other horses. However, the temps did start to drop right around the same time the CM was introduced. There is no way in hell I can afford to feed my horse 40lbs of hay a day, especially Orchard, and frankly he would look like a whale.

I love the KER Fiber Max, which is essentially their version of Pennfield's Fibergized, but my local stores don't carry it and I'm not driving the thirty minutes up a mountain to get it.

When he was on alfalfa (briefly) he was a total nutcase. There is no. way. I'm adding that to his diet. He was snorty, spooky, and a general as$ho!e on the ground, and under saddle was even worse.


Some horses need more calories than hay + ration balancer can provide, especially in the winter.

Have you tried simply removing the CM and upping the TC Senior to 8 lbs? I don't know how many calories are in CM, but rice bran has roughly 1200 per pound, while TC Senior has 1500ish. So you'd be getting more bang for your buck with the TC.

As far as the hotness...could be a combo of more energy (since he's finally getting enough food) to the time year (cold) to less turnout? Does he get enough time out in the pasture?

I am trying to stay as economical as possible while keeping him healthy. Don't get me wrong, the hotness is quite fun, but it was a shock. He definitely needs more calories than just a ration balancer would provide since he's A. Not getting 40lbs of hay and B. Not on pasture all day long. He gets turned out 2x a week, more if I can squeeze it in, and getting worked 4-5x a week. So the weather could definitely be a factor as well.


Like I said, we're happy with his weight now and are just looking at ways to maintain it. At this point we're going to do a wait and see what happens once I run out of the CM. If he calms down but maintains, great! If he starts to drop weight then we'll either put him back on it, or attempt a different avenue.

doublesstable
Jan. 14, 2013, 04:43 AM
The Bermuda he is getting is high quality. And Pennfield doesn't ship to CA since last year, so....yeah. I am a fan of the Triple Crown grain. He was not hot on it before adding the CM, which is another supplement I've had success with in the past on other horses. However, the temps did start to drop right around the same time the CM was introduced. There is no way in hell I can afford to feed my horse 40lbs of hay a day, especially Orchard, and frankly he would look like a whale.

I love the KER Fiber Max, which is essentially their version of Pennfield's Fibergized, but my local stores don't carry it and I'm not driving the thirty minutes up a mountain to get it.

When he was on alfalfa (briefly) he was a total nutcase. There is no. way. I'm adding that to his diet. He was snorty, spooky, and a general as$ho!e on the ground, and under saddle was even worse.



I know; I fed Pennfield and I too in Cali cannot get it. I found Stam 30 which seems to be going well so far. That's why I mentioned it depends on what area you live in.

If you are in Cali; the vets at the equine hospitals as well as most vets do not recommend you feed Bermuda. It is the number one cause of impaction colic here.

I read your post wrong I thought you were looking for weight gain - why I suggested feeding more hay... but if your good with the weight I would just add a ration balancer and remove the bermuda, the TC and Calf Manna.

Stam 30 is by a company called Hallway..

Here is their link http://hallwayfeeds.com/?our-feed-products/racing-products/stamm-30.html

You could cut out all the TC and Calf Manna saving you money on that end.

I don't feed much alfalfa myself but I mentioned it because another poster talked about calories. If you need energy it's a great feed. I know most of the TB's I had would get very hot on alfalfa.

Good luck to you and I hope you find a solution....

doublesstable
Jan. 14, 2013, 04:54 AM
Whew doublestable, you feed 35-40 lbs of hay per day to ONE horse???

My horses stay in good weight (if not a little chunky this winter) on about 20-25lbs each per day.


Depends on the horse. I do have an 18 hand 2000 lb horse that gets 35 lbs a day when in work. What I do for each horse is try to free feed grass hay (Orchard or Timothy) and if they are in work and not hot I feed 5 to 10 lbs of alfalfa. It really depends on the horse. If they are thin; then they need more hay. If they are fat they need less. You just have to figure out how many lbs each horse needs, how much work they are doing etc.

My comments were made in reference to weight. I believe horses that are too thin usually just need more hay not a bunch of molasses based feeds.

fordtraktor
Jan. 14, 2013, 08:45 AM
My horses get free choice orchard/alf mix, all they can/will eat. 3 of the 4 are fine on a ration balancer-type but one still needs 8 pounds of TC Senior a day to stay in prime condition. Ration balancers are not a one-size-fits-all.

Eventer55
Jan. 14, 2013, 09:06 AM
Having Tbs off the track I have a few questions.

1 Did you get him off the track and is he feeling better because you're nutrition is helping him put on weight and not keeping up with the work load?

2 Every Tb is different, but they are bred for high energy and it comes with the territory. . .

3 Some horses react to feeds, but I've found with what I do with mine it is not recommended to just feed hay and ration balancer. If you ask Leslie Law, David or even a BN rider going for the Regionals, they would tell you that they do not feed just good quality hay and ration balancer. If you're working your Tb, you may want to do more time working him and the increase in feed will be fine.

4 What does your instructor/vet say?

5 Try B1 crumbles they work for a lot of Tbs for calmness.

I would also like to know his background for example where did he come from, who had him before etc.

4cornersfarm
Jan. 14, 2013, 09:19 AM
How much does your TB weigh? I usually go with 2% of body weight in hay (recommendations range from 1% to 2%.) My 18 y.o. TB gets 20 lbs of hay (timothy/orchard grass mix, half of it 1st cut, half 2nd cut) and a pound and a half of beet pulp and a pound of timothy alfalfa cubes. Total of close to 23 lbs of forage. He is in good weight. (About 1,100 lbs by weight tape.) 30 pounds of hay a day seems like a lot! This same TB (who is not in work at the moment) gets 1 lb of Blue Seal Strider (2.5% fat, 11% protein) and 1/2 lb Blue Seal Senior a day. Again, he is in fine weight. If he was working harder I might up his grain to keep his weight on. I do feed a cup of sunflower seeds a day, but am considering switching that to rice bran. I used to feed corn oil, but was told that that type of fat is not good for them.

doublesstable
Jan. 14, 2013, 01:16 PM
My horses get free choice orchard/alf mix, all they can/will eat. 3 of the 4 are fine on a ration balancer-type but one still needs 8 pounds of TC Senior a day to stay in prime condition. Ration balancers are not a one-size-fits-all.


If you contact Hallway (Pennfield, Buckeye, Progressive Nutrition, or KER) and discuss your horses situation they have many different feeds. The balancers are designed to be added to if necessary for different nutritional needs.

And IMHO feeding TC if you want to feed Cane molasses and a lot more sugars. Nutritional studies and classes I have taken over the years do not support feeding TC. But those are just the studies and classes I have taken and vets I have talked to.

If you look at TC and Calf Manna ingredients you find cane molasses number three and alfalfa number six on calf manna. These things it sounds like your horse really doesn't need. You may have to find a feed or balancer that is limited on the ingredients that can cause them to have too much energy.

It's really worth checking out. Here is a quick article on balancers.

http://www.horsefeedblog.com/2011/01/when-to-feed-ration-balancers/

I learned so much when I had young horses and their nutritional needs. It was a real eye opener for me. I am just surprised not too many people know about or feed balancers.

I had a young horse with wobblers and another with epitisitus (bought them both from breeders with it) and nutrition - ration balancers worked amazing....

runNjump86
Jan. 14, 2013, 05:03 PM
I've used balancers in the past on my air fern Arab/QH and had good results. However, that will not work with my TB. He needs more calories than what hay and a balancer will provide.

Trainer was the one who suggested rice bran, hence the start of the thread. She is the one who put him on 30lbs of hay per day as well because he needed to put weight on when he first got to her property. Last time we weight taped him he was right around 1250lbs. He's a big guy and is usually mistaken for a WB.

He has not been on the track in years. I've had him under my care for several months and we've been going back and forth on feeds since day one, trying to find one that works without having to pump 10lbs of grain in him. I am well aware that TB's are bred for high energy; this particular guy has been super laid back since I first met him, so the hotness has been a shock. We may have to up his work load while cutting back on feed. I'm going to suggest we cut back on his hay intake as well to 25lbs and see what happens. I fed my Arab/QH B1 crumbles last year and didn't see a difference. Like I said I don't mind the hotness (most of the time). I just want to keep him healthy and hopefully have his brain resurface. :D

RedMare01
Jan. 14, 2013, 06:13 PM
TC feeds may have molasses in them, but the overall sugar/NSC percentage in most of them is quite low:
http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/article/horse-food-carbohydrate-values-triple-crown-horsefood

Notice that the Senior is 11.7%, which is very low for a concentrated feed. In fact, less than 2% higher than the ration balancer, TC 30 (9.8%NSC).

Don't get me wrong, I also love ration balancers. I use one in the summer for my mare. But it simply will not work for us in the winter. Not on a 19 year old mare + cold temps + no grass. She gets pretty much all the hay (plus alfalfa pellets with meals) that she wants, but last year I tried to stay with the balancer and I had a skinny, skinny mare by the end of January, even adding several pounds of oats along with alfalfa pellets. And BTW, the NSC of the balancer + oats is way more than the <12% in TC Senior.

doublesstable
Jan. 14, 2013, 07:18 PM
There is no way in hell I can afford to feed my horse 40lbs of hay a day, especially Orchard, and frankly he would look like a whale.

He needs more calories than what hay and a balancer will provide.

The above quotes from the OP are what I am having trouble understanding.

OP states they cannot increase hay because it would be too expensive and the horse would look like a whale...

Then later said the TB needs more calories than with balancer and hay alone but are not willing to increase hay.????

OP is feeding 15 lbs of a very low protein hay and 15 lbs of an even lower protein hay.

But if a balancer was fed which you feed only a few lbs of it so it would cost less than TC or Calf Manna you are feeding now and increase a better hay (all Orchard or Timothy - remove the Bermuda) the cost would work out very similar to what is being spent now.

I guess I am in the minority on this one but if your are not willing to spend more money to feed more Orchard or Timothy hay and looking for something less expensive to put weight on a already hot horse... then finding a supplement that wont make your horse hot and gain weight at the same time will be really difficult. The OP is not in a cold area; It's really a simple answer - feed more hay.

Rice and wheat bran's will assist further in an off balance diet.

RedMare01
Jan. 14, 2013, 09:15 PM
I wasn't aware that you could know the percentage of protein in hay without testing it. Obviously alfalfa is going to have more protein than grass hay, but timothy, orchard grass, and bermuda are all relatively interchangeable as far as average protein goes (http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/id146.pdf). You'd have to test the individual batch of hay to determine the exact percentage you're feeding.

And many rice brans are fortified to correct the Ca/P ratio.

doublesstable
Jan. 14, 2013, 09:31 PM
I wasn't aware that you could know the percentage of protein in hay without testing it. Obviously alfalfa is going to have more protein than grass hay, but timothy, orchard grass, and bermuda are all relatively interchangeable as far as average protein goes (http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/id146.pdf). You'd have to test the individual batch of hay to determine the exact percentage you're feeding.

And many rice brans are fortified to correct the Ca/P ratio.

In the table 1 chart in your link it clearly shows Bermuda having the least of protein, calcium and phosphorus comparably to all other hays.. Orchard and Timothy somewhere in the middle and Alfalfa being highest as an example. The OP is feeding 15 lbs of Bermuda a day.

You can have your hay tested to get exact, however even in the link it gives a base guideline. Also the bold portion of the quote above is also assuming without testing hay.

Bran - if you research and what vets have told me it is not a good product to feed.

From KER site : "A potential problem with many rice brans is that they
contain more phosphorus than calcium

http://www.ker.com/library/equinews/v2n1/v2n115.pdf

You could probably feed rice bran somewhat safely but IMO why would you want to risk it when you can accomplish the same thing by feeding more hay and a balancer that has what you need.

RedMare01
Jan. 14, 2013, 09:58 PM
The link shows that timothy, orchard grass, and bermuda have the exact same digestible energy, and that timothy and orchard grass typically contain between 7-11% protein while bermuda grass typically has between 6-11%. It's a negligible difference. Again, you can't make assumptions about the protein content of hay without testing it.

Unfortified rice bran does have inverse Ca:P ratio, but fortified rice bran has Ca added to balance it.

doublesstable
Jan. 14, 2013, 10:56 PM
The link shows that timothy, orchard grass, and bermuda have the exact same digestible energy, and that timothy and orchard grass typically contain between 7-11% protein while bermuda grass typically has between 6-11%. It's a negligible difference. Again, you can't make assumptions about the protein content of hay without testing it.

Unfortified rice bran does have inverse Ca:P ratio, but fortified rice bran has Ca added to balance it.

:) You "can" make assumptions about the protein content without testing it - you are by saying the following:

timothy and orchard grass typically contain between 7-11% protein while bermuda grass typically has between 6-11%.

I will listen to my vets and the professionals I have studied with.

I guess we all get set in what we like and what we don't. Never been a fan of brans, beet pulp, TC and a few other feeds.....

RedMare01
Jan. 14, 2013, 11:29 PM
:) You "can" make assumptions about the protein content without testing it - you are by saying the following:

timothy and orchard grass typically contain between 7-11% protein while bermuda grass typically has between 6-11%.


:confused: Yes...I don't see the big difference? They're averages anyway. What if her orchard grass is 7% and her bermuda is 9%? Besides, when the horse is eating 25-30# of hay + concentrates...be it a balancer or high calorie "grain", the horse is not going to be lacking in protein.

Again, I don't disagree with you. Hay + balancer is a great thing. But there are times when you simply cannot provide all the calories a horse needs with these two things alone. Horses can eat a lot of hay, but once you get to 25-30 pounds + a day...the horse would literally have to be eating 24/7 to consume that much hay. For an average 1100# horse, 2% (upper limit of necessary forage per day) of his body weight in hay is 22#. When you get to 30-40#, you're talking 3-3.5% of his body weight. Per day. That's a huge amount of hay.

runNjump86
Jan. 15, 2013, 04:14 AM
:confused: Yes...I don't see the big difference? They're averages anyway. What if her orchard grass is 7% and her bermuda is 9%? Besides, when the horse is eating 25-30# of hay + concentrates...be it a balancer or high calorie "grain", the horse is not going to be lacking in protein.

Again, I don't disagree with you. Hay + balancer is a great thing. But there are times when you simply cannot provide all the calories a horse needs with these two things alone. Horses can eat a lot of hay, but once you get to 25-30 pounds + a day...the horse would literally have to be eating 24/7 to consume that much hay. For an average 1100# horse, 2% (upper limit of necessary forage per day) of his body weight in hay is 22#. When you get to 30-40#, you're talking 3-3.5% of his body weight. Per day. That's a huge amount of hay.

Thank you. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that feeding 40lbs of hay a day is A LOT. And it IS more expensive, especially because I would have to add on another feeding to my board, which would make it even MORE expensive.

My vet recommends fortified rice bran as a fat supplement for most horses. Hers are on RB + Beep + Vitamins, but they are super easy keepers.

Going to let the Calf Manna run out and see what happens. Will report back later.

doublesstable
Jan. 15, 2013, 11:42 AM
Thank you. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that feeding 40lbs of hay a day is A LOT. And it IS more expensive, especially because I would have to add on another feeding to my board, which would make it even MORE expensive.

My vet recommends fortified rice bran as a fat supplement for most horses. Hers are on RB + Beep + Vitamins, but they are super easy keepers.

Going to let the Calf Manna run out and see what happens. Will report back later.

I don't think it's a lot - horses are grazers.. but that's just me. I think you should do what your vet recommends.

Since you are boarding - are you sure they are feeding what they say? I have been at a few board places and they were to be feeding something and when I was there and looked it wasn't what I was paying for... it was less feed.

About the lacking protein - I know those hays fed with grains will not be lacking but feeding a lot of those grains can make the horse hot... but it sounds like the OP has a plan working with her vet which IMO is the best plan.

LauraKY
Jan. 15, 2013, 12:03 PM
I don't think it's a lot - horses are grazers.. but that's just me. I think you should do what your vet recommends.

Since you are boarding - are you sure they are feeding what they say? I have been at a few board places and they were to be feeding something and when I was there and looked it wasn't what I was paying for... it was less feed.

About the lacking protein - I know those hays fed with grains will not be lacking but feeding a lot of those grains can make the horse hot... but it sounds like the OP has a plan working with her vet which IMO is the best plan.

I'm guessing you must be in an area with unlimited resources of top quality, cheap hay. Most of us are not and we make do with what we have.

Are you honestly saying that you think feeding 4% of body weight is OK and normal?

doublesstable
Jan. 15, 2013, 12:22 PM
I'm guessing you must be in an area with unlimited resources of top quality, cheap hay. Most of us are not and we make do with what we have.

Are you honestly saying that you think feeding 4% of body weight is OK and normal?

I have horses at home so I buy what I need.. and your guess is wrong LOL - our Alfalfa is $20 a 80 - 100 lb bale Orchard and Timothy are 25.00 a 80 - 100 bale. I feed what my horses need. I like them to have grass hay 24/7.

For example - If a horse that is skinny and weighs 1000 lbs and "should" weigh 1500 lbs you feed more than the percentage based on 1000. Percentages are a guideline IMO - your horse is the true indicator of what is needed.

I have a few 1500 lb horses and they eat 30 lbs a day. So IMO it depends on the horse and you must figure in your goal weight for your horse as well as it's work load.

SuckerForHorses
Jan. 15, 2013, 12:52 PM
... He gets turned out 2x a week, more if I can squeeze it in, and getting worked 4-5x a week. So the weather could definitely be a factor as well...

So, he gets pretty minimal turnout, and isn't ridden daily?

He used to be underweight but you've been able to get him to gain wtih groceries?

With that amount of limited turnout, I would expect any horse to be more hot. Consider increasing his turnout, you may find that you have a much calmer horse.

Additionally, I agree with others who have said if he was underweight prior, putting some groceries into them will certainly give him energy he didn't have before.

SuckerForHorses
Jan. 15, 2013, 12:54 PM
RE: Feeding a horse 40 lbs of hay a day...

Our square bales are about 40 lbs.

I have two average size horses, no "grain" to either of them (ration balancer TC 30% and 1 cup of flax daily, in addition my mare gets alfalfa cubes soaked)

I feed two whole bales daily with no wasted hay leftover at the next meal.

So, on average, each horse is eating about 40 lbs of hay daily.

RedMare01
Jan. 15, 2013, 05:09 PM
I have horses at home so I buy what I need.. and your guess is wrong LOL - our Alfalfa is $20 a 80 - 100 lb bale Orchard and Timothy are 25.00 a 80 - 100 bale. I feed what my horses need. I like them to have grass hay 24/7.

For example - If a horse that is skinny and weighs 1000 lbs and "should" weigh 1500 lbs you feed more than the percentage based on 1000. Percentages are a guideline IMO - your horse is the true indicator of what is needed.

I have a few 1500 lb horses and they eat 30 lbs a day. So IMO it depends on the horse and you must figure in your goal weight for your horse as well as it's work load.

What breeds are your horses? 1500 lbs is a LOT of horse, LOL. They must be huge.

Lady Eboshi
Jan. 15, 2013, 07:00 PM
I've been having such good luck with Blue Seal Hay Stretcher, including several remarkable turnarounds of notoriously lifetime hard-keepers, that I no longer believe "added fat" is the solution at all. Certainly that much fat is not natural in the equine diet.

The problem is to make the forage palatable and digestible enough that they'll eat enough of it--and this stuff seems to work without hotness, and if anything enhancing their appetite for hay; unlike the oily beet pulp Senior feeds where I've found that the more of it you feed, the more you need to. Far more affordable as well.

tradewind
Jan. 15, 2013, 09:21 PM
I have had good luck with Hard Keeper and an increase in hay rather than grain on most of the foster horses that have come here. I also use b1 on my riding horse, and am a huge believer in soaked beet pulp.

runNjump86
Jan. 16, 2013, 03:29 AM
I don't think it's a lot - horses are grazers.. but that's just me. I think you should do what your vet recommends.

Since you are boarding - are you sure they are feeding what they say? I have been at a few board places and they were to be feeding something and when I was there and looked it wasn't what I was paying for... it was less feed.

About the lacking protein - I know those hays fed with grains will not be lacking but feeding a lot of those grains can make the horse hot... but it sounds like the OP has a plan working with her vet which IMO is the best plan.

My vet thinks he looks great and we should keep on doing what we're doing. :)

And yes, he gets exactly what I said he gets. I work there. I am there for evening feedings about 5 days a week, and 2 of those nights I feed. There is one other person who feeds. She has a tendency to overfeed, so its quite possible he's getting more hay.

Crockpot
Jan. 16, 2013, 04:25 AM
RE: Feeding a horse 40 lbs of hay a day...

Our square bales are about 40 lbs.

I have two average size horses, no "grain" to either of them (ration balancer TC 30% and 1 cup of flax daily, in addition my mare gets alfalfa cubes soaked)

I feed two whole bales daily with no wasted hay leftover at the next meal.

So, on average, each horse is eating about 40 lbs of hay daily.

Pretty much the same here. It varies but on average the horses here eat a bale (about 40 lbs) a day when not on grass.

doublesstable
Jan. 16, 2013, 08:29 PM
What breeds are your horses? 1500 lbs is a LOT of horse, LOL. They must be huge.

One is a Hanovarian and the other is Danish... yeah they are big guys.

I agree with tradewind on having good luck just increasing hay.

horsenut_8700
Jan. 17, 2013, 04:33 PM
Just my opinion, but I think people greatly underestimate how much their horses weigh- my 15h Qh mare weighed in at 1200# when she went to Tufts to have her eye removed (on an actual scale). And this was when she was lean and fit and she is NOT a typical beefy QH- most people think she's an Appendix or full TB.

That said, my big geldings each eat pretty close to 40# of hay per day in the winter- one 16h Morab and one 17h OTTB and hold their weight pretty well. I think more hay less concentrates would be better and ultimately cheaper based on what I'm paying for TC here.