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Plainandtall
Aug. 15, 2012, 11:35 AM
I saw a photo album on FB yesterday that has my head spinning.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/116185128409729/490682030960035/?ref=notif&notif_t=group_activity#!/media/set/?set=a.10150950274186980.400950.660176979&type=1

I don't know who took these pictures.
Apparently the Florida Draft Horse Rescue officially closed this summer.

BUT they still have a bunch of horses there and AC is NOT doing anything about the situation.

Any Florida peeps have the inside scoop on what is going on?

HydroPHILE
Aug. 15, 2012, 11:39 AM
Several rescues have already stepped up to get the horses. There is one in North Georgia that has agreed to take 7-8 of them already.

(P.S. Link = content currently unavailable)

Plainandtall
Aug. 15, 2012, 11:53 AM
let me try one more time:
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/media/set/?set=a.10150950274186980.400950.660176979&type=1

The photo set "the truth of Florida Drat Horse rescue" is posted publicly from Michelle Romanello

Yes, I see that about the other rescue "stepping up to the plate" so to speak... for one, it doesn't seem that the owners of these horses are seeking help, nor are they seized, so it doesn't really matter who wants to help out- it's out of anyone's hands until some part of this dynamic shifts. the other issue that concerns me is that this other rescue already is approaching 50 horses, and in today's update state that they are behind on their feed and vet bill and have one dose of bute left (treating a recently injured mare) Is this just the standard operating procedure to make sure the supporters keep donating? I don't feel warm fuzzies about the prospect of a cash strapped rescue taking in eight more.

HydroPHILE
Aug. 15, 2012, 12:46 PM
Never said I supported the other rescues stepping up to help them. It was just the only update I had. I don't like the cycle that animal rescue groups often find themselves in:

Start with five animals. Take in four animals. Ask for donations to pay feed bill, or adopt. Adopt out five animals. Go to the sale or get eight animals from somewhere. Ask for donations to pay feed bill, or beg for adoptions. Adopt out four. Take in five more animals.

5 + 4 = 9
9 - 5 = 4
4 + 8 = 12
12-4 = 8
8 + 5 = 13

(for the numerical breakdown)

It happens more often than not with animal rescues whether it be horses, dogs, cats, etc.

nightsong
Aug. 17, 2012, 04:43 AM
The photo set "the truth of Florida Drat Horse rescue"

Amusing typo.

Angela Freda
Aug. 17, 2012, 11:48 AM
In this case I think it's safe to say that they were using the term 'rescue' loosely.
Anyone know if they had their 501c3 or were recognized by the state as such, or just adopted the 'rescue' title on their own? Not that you have to have either of the former to be legit.

It's pathetic what happened to those animals... the suffering they endured embodies the phrase 'from the frying pan to the fire'.
The punishment for this cruelty should be similar [frying pan to fire].

catknsn
Aug. 17, 2012, 03:49 PM
Here's the typical recipe for disaster:

Take in one. Funds flow in at time of rescue. Funds dry up once horsey is safe.
Offer to take in another. YAY MONEY! Funds flow in!
Ooops, funds dried up once horsey was safe.
I know what I'll do - I will take in one with a severe issue that needs vet attention now and fundraise for that!
YAY! LOTS OF FUNDS FLOW IN!
Horsey is well...funds dry up.
Horses need food, farrier, vet, training...who can pay for that?
It's easy to get $500 to pull a horse off a kill truck, damn near impossible to get it to pay for a month of training.
Rinse, lather, repeat.

Ultimately, I don't see myself ever taking in more than I can support using my own paycheck for this reason. It is just too scary. It is very hard to get donations unless you are screaming hystericaly about some urgent need. Many donors reward hysteria instead of rewarding well-run rescues. The only real way to survive is being fantastic about doing ALL your grant applications and running regular fundraiser events - and still keeping your numbers under control. I know people who can do it but they are not the majority of those who want to rescue, or have a rescue.

Lori T
Aug. 17, 2012, 06:45 PM
When I ran my non-profit rescue a few years ago, I was contacted by the deputies regarding these people. They have been under investigation for quite some time now. They are not a legit non-profit and that was one reason for being under investigation (they were in Orange County at the time...God forbid Orange County investigate them for neglect or abuse).
People need to do their homework and find out whether or not the rescue they volunteer or donate to is legit.

caballohermoso
Aug. 17, 2012, 06:53 PM
This individual, Romanello, was rejected an adoption by Florida Draft Horse, and has been on a rampage since. The pictures she shows are reversed. The ones she says are after are actually the befores.
I know because I followed both on Facebook. I called FDH to see why they shut down, the reason was they lost their lease and had no energy to continue with the excessive drama relating to this and other individuals. The horses and other livestock are in the hands of a handful of friends and they will not disclose them. They have no horses but their own now.
Michelle, be careful, you might get some letters from lawyers about displaying pictures of people without permission. In Florida that is a felony.

wsmoak
Aug. 17, 2012, 07:06 PM
be careful, you might get some letters from lawyers about displaying pictures of people without permission. In Florida that is a felony.

Really? What law is that?

In a quick search I could only find a proposed law that would make it illegal to take pictures of farms (http://www.salon.com/2011/03/15/illegal_florida_farm_photography_open2011/). Not sure if it was modified and/or ever passed.

luvmytbs
Aug. 17, 2012, 07:48 PM
Friday? - check
Full moon? - check
Popcorn? - check
Cheap wine? - check


Carry on..............

MRomanello
Aug. 17, 2012, 08:17 PM
Well, I can almost guarantee I know who that person who claimed I was rejected or whatever. Actually, not even close. First off, I was called in a panic because they needed to move their horses and asked if I could take one. Sadly, I couldn't afford it. I had 1 horse already and that was are limit at the time (Of course...that didn't last forever, we're up to 5 happy, healthy horses). It broke my heart, but I knew, at the time, I couldn't give him the home he deserved. So no, I was not rejected. Nor am I bipolar or schizophrenic, as she also claims (Does any one else see the desperate moves? I certainly do)
Now, FDHR has been, according to animal control, investigated four or five times...sadly, they decided to do nothing, closing the case right before 3 more horses died. 4 died in the month of July to causes that could have been avoided. One had cancer, but he could have at least had some sort of treatment. One had liver failure (malnutrition!). One had EPSM, was brought in up to weight and healthy, SUFFERED and died (you can see the blood coming from his mouth in the pictures and he was left there for a day or so). When he died, he had NO muscle mass. He couldn't get up. And one was also emaciated. She used to be up to weight. All the sickly skinny horses are June/July photos, that I also had permission to post. All those horses (except Mai, RIP) were there for more than a year. Now, horses that were adopted out, emaciated, gained weight nicely. Yet, she has an excuse for why she couldn't. Her problem was actually that she didn't go out and feed on a daily basis. The only time they had hay since about March was the day before Animal Control came out. Their vet who has been covering for them and claims the horses were healthy had been out there like...twice.
I'd also like to ask you guys, who thinks, for colic, it's a good idea to take a cold hose (that had been laying in dirt AND had the metal piece) and put it up their hind end to "flush" them out...every vet I have asked looked like they were about to go into cardiac arrest.

Oh, I'd also like to add the fun fact of the horses getting to the point where they were eating their own feces and fencing. So there is the truth, any questions? feel free to ask!

wcporter
Aug. 17, 2012, 08:59 PM
Yeessssss! Dont stop! :yes:

wcporter
Aug. 17, 2012, 09:02 PM
Oh, I'd also like to add the fun fact of the horses getting to the point where they were eating their own feces and fencing. So there is the truth, any questions? feel free to ask! :winkgrin:

And how can you make a statement like that and then make a face like THAT? wtf? :no:

MRomanello
Aug. 17, 2012, 10:22 PM
And how can you make a statement like that and then make a face like THAT? wtf? :no:

I'm so sorry, totally didn't mean to make that face. I'm still trying to figure this thing out. It's been a long few days... meant to put :cry: It's been rough. The pictures still rip my heart out and crushes it over and over again. Especially the one with Bangor dead in the background. That was the one she claims that I was rejected for adopting because if I had taken him when she asked, he'd still be here. I just couldn't afford it. I've had very little sleep in the last few days. But I just want you guys to know the truth about whats really happening. The pictures aren't backwards. Her own horses are scrawny for no reason! And if they did have issues, they shouldn't have used one in 100 degree weather to do pony rides (the kids didn't wear helmets on public property = illegal in Florida) This one needs sleep so this one can function tomorrow! I feel like a dope...

Fixed it!!...and almost double posted this thing...UGH! I feel like a dope!

Fairfax
Aug. 17, 2012, 10:35 PM
Why not contact Analise and Gentle Giants. They made a FORTUNE last year on donations *remember the one with the horse they claimed had been hit in the mouth...much moola made from that pic...turns out horse had cancer...they removed the picture but did not return the donations...They are affiliated with DEFHR and HSUS so I would think they could come up with the money. Heck. They just purchased a new farm and are soliciting funds for not only a new barn, but also a vet facility to accomodate the gentle drafts...Maybe it is time they spent some of the 900,000$ on some actual horses that are Drafts

MRomanello
Aug. 17, 2012, 10:39 PM
They know of the situation. They've know FDHR weren't good people for a while. They are trying to help us the best that they can and have offered a safe haven for the horses if we can get them seized or surrendered. We have multiple draft rescues offering help for these horses, but it's the owner of FDHR who doesn't want to give them up.

And no, they aren't a 501c3. They were involuntarily dissolved in 2010, and were not able to file for one after they were reinstated.

Fairfax
Aug. 17, 2012, 10:48 PM
Gentle Giants has enough money on hand they could pay to have the horses delivered to them in Maryland....home state of HSUS...

MRomanello
Aug. 17, 2012, 10:55 PM
They've offered support in every way (including financial) if we can get them out. Just have to find the horses again. These horses deserve better than feces and wood. They deserve the best of the best, like every horse deserves. It's funny when people say, "they're horses..." yeah, horses that I have and will lose sleep over. These horses just want to please. What really kills me is that she can neglect and everything, but these horses will continue to do anything to please her. To make her happy. They deserve their own home. One of them has AWFUL summer sores on his hooves and now on his face.

Rubyfree
Aug. 18, 2012, 11:44 AM
After many years on CoTH, I tend to take both sides of these threads with a large heap of salt, but I have to say I'm impressed by caballohermoso's "defense" of the group. The pictures are reversed... so that means they raised a horse from the dead! Awesome work, guys! You'll be handy to have around during the zombie apocalypse.

MRomanello
Aug. 18, 2012, 08:18 PM
After many years on CoTH, I tend to take both sides of these threads with a large heap of salt, but I have to say I'm impressed by caballohermoso's "defense" of the group. The pictures are reversed... so that means they raised a horse from the dead! Awesome work, guys! You'll be handy to have around during the zombie apocalypse.

Yeah, Caballohermoso is a friend of hers because the number any one else has doesn't work anymore. Rescue are needed. We need them and they are quite full right now. I would NEVER make things up no matter what a person did to me personally if they cared for their horses and did best by the horse. But I will NOT sit by and allow a rescue to neglect their horses and do nothing about it. I knew a couple of these horses that died personally and they deserved way better than that. This absolutely breaks my heart, but flipping pictures because I'm upset? No. From what it seems, they are trying to say that they raised horses from the dead if the pictures were flipped. Those are their PERSONAL horses. And how the heck would I get pictures of Sonny and Cash from YEARS and YEARS ago that were taken at the place they are at now? They had obtained all these horses before they had moved to this property, so how are the pictures flipped?

Angela Freda
Aug. 19, 2012, 10:12 AM
Gentle Giants has enough money on hand they could pay to have the horses delivered to them in Maryland....home state of HSUS...

LOL yeah sure they do.
Agenda much? How is Marsha and her horses, since you're here to share? Any updates?

Angela Freda
Aug. 19, 2012, 10:14 AM
Friday? - check
Full moon? - check
Popcorn? - check
Cheap wine? - check


Carry on..............

Troll posters?- check

It appears the weekend is complete!

MRomanello
Aug. 19, 2012, 09:09 PM
Gentle Giants did offer financial help. Which helps us. We just want to get the horses safe. We aren't looking for any issues. Just getting the horses where they need to be!

Chardavej
Aug. 19, 2012, 09:59 PM
flipping pictures because I'm upset? No. From what it seems, they are trying to say that they raised horses from the dead if the pictures were flipped. They had obtained all these horses before they had moved to this property, so how are the pictures flipped?

Also I like how they put auction number stickers on their butt after they have been at the "rescue". They of course arrived skinny and once weight was put on they put the hip sticker on them.

michaleenflynn
Aug. 20, 2012, 12:15 AM
Friday? - check
Full moon? - check
Popcorn? - check
Cheap wine? - check


Carry on..............

:lol::lol::lol:

michaleenflynn
Aug. 20, 2012, 12:18 AM
Why not contact Analise and Gentle Giants. They made a FORTUNE last year on donations *remember the one with the horse they claimed had been hit in the mouth...much moola made from that pic...turns out horse had cancer...they removed the picture but did not return the donations...They are affiliated with DEFHR and HSUS so I would think they could come up with the money. Heck. They just purchased a new farm and are soliciting funds for not only a new barn, but also a vet facility to accomodate the gentle drafts...Maybe it is time they spent some of the 900,000$ on some actual horses that are Drafts

Oh, SO very glad to know that others are on to GG :yes:

MRomanello
Aug. 20, 2012, 02:23 PM
Also I like how they put auction number stickers on their butt after they have been at the "rescue". They of course arrived skinny and once weight was put on they put the hip sticker on them.

Thank you for making that point!
after posting these pictures, it's always interesting to see what people who stand behind her say to back her up. I'm still trying to figure ou their motives for this. Do they not want to believe the fact that these horses were starved and neglected by someone they trusted?

Jhorne89
Sep. 20, 2012, 02:19 AM
I can give an update to most on behalf of The Florida Draft Horse Rescue. Currently they have 6 horses borded on my property. Originally 7 + 2 alpacas for a total of 9. My husband encouraged them to downsize as they couldn't afford them. The horses have been here for the past two months. They are still underweight. Two of them are extremely poor. They may come once a day to feed and I say that lightly. For the past week they have came on occasion two times a day only because my husband told them they have until the end of the month to remove themselves from the property. These people have no respect for their animals. They don't care if they starve. I can assure you they eat well, a little to well. My husband is fed up with them. They are cons. 100% no doubt about it. We have caught them in several lies. We knew nothing about them before they got here but within on day of them being on our property, the calls started rolling in. We tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but they clearly proved everyone else right. I'm attempting to contact Michele to go about the steps on this investigation they are under. They have no right owning animals. Believe me when I tell trust the things you hear about them, I didn't at first but now I know. I will keep everyone informed of the outcome. If AC won't get involved the news will. The owner of this rescue is a former AC employee until very recently. Maybe an investigation won't get swept under the rug anymore. If nothing is done, I will contact a higher power as my family is of the well know in the horse community. I'm thankful I found this forum. It has only secured my beliefs other than what I've personally seen.

Bluey
Sep. 20, 2012, 09:03 AM
I can give an update to most on behalf of The Florida Draft Horse Rescue. Currently they have 6 horses borded on my property. Originally 7 + 2 alpacas for a total of 9. My husband encouraged them to downsize as they couldn't afford them. The horses have been here for the past two months. They are still underweight. Two of them are extremely poor. They may come once a day to feed and I say that lightly. For the past week they have came on occasion two times a day only because my husband told them they have until the end of the month to remove themselves from the property. These people have no respect for their animals. They don't care if they starve. I can assure you they eat well, a little to well. My husband is fed up with them. They are cons. 100% no doubt about it. We have caught them in several lies. We knew nothing about them before they got here but within on day of them being on our property, the calls started rolling in. We tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but they clearly proved everyone else right. I'm attempting to contact Michele to go about the steps on this investigation they are under. They have no right owning animals. Believe me when I tell trust the things you hear about them, I didn't at first but now I know. I will keep everyone informed of the outcome. If AC won't get involved the news will. The owner of this rescue is a former AC employee until very recently. Maybe an investigation won't get swept under the rug anymore. If nothing is done, I will contact a higher power as my family is of the well know in the horse community. I'm thankful I found this forum. It has only secured my beliefs other than what I've personally seen.

This thread is bizarre.:eek:
Not only one but several houseguest, one house host too.:confused:

Decades ago, thru our vet, we were the to go farm for our local rescue lady.
I have to say, that one also was more interested in the publicity to keep donations coming than caring for the individual horses.
Eventually, when the vet wanted to euthanize one badly injured mare and the lady didn't want to quite yet, because she was the poster child right then that was filling her coffers, the vet and us quit helping.

Seems that such mentality is still going on, all these decades later.:no:

Plainandtall
Sep. 20, 2012, 09:24 AM
Best of luck to you Jhorne! I know of a local rescue/trainwreck where they had close ties with not only animal control, but the EMS which in turn also inclued the local law enforcement and they were all tangled up in one big ball of co-dependency that made it very difficult to find objective oversight.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean Bluey- Are they still trying to raise money? Are you implying that Jhorne is a false/lying identity who is going to somehow help donations flow in? I don't even understand how that would work.

Angela Freda
Sep. 20, 2012, 11:05 AM
Oh, SO very glad to know that others are on to GG :yes:

Just be careful here Michaleenflynn... not all those against GG are created equal.
This particular poster thought that the situation Marsha Parkinson was keeping her Arab horses in was hunky-dory [imagine what those against keeping horse in NYC would think of the conditions these horses were being kept in] and had all kinds of conspiracy theories to explain why Marsha was being railroaded, including but not limited to the 'valuable' stock the rescues were 'grabbing' that MArsha couldn't sell herself and her uber 'valuable' [read rundown] property.

LauraKY
Sep. 20, 2012, 11:48 AM
We need the Sherries...then my week will be complete. What is it about rescue that attracts the lunatics?

Jhorne89
Sep. 20, 2012, 01:47 PM
Yes, Bluey, I'm a bit confused, are you thinking that I am trying to help them? If you would like to PM I could give you my phone number and address if you'd like to personally come out to my property and sit and chat with me. Trust me, considering I own four horses of my own and was a vet tech for five years, there is no way I could condone this behavior, especially when it is literally happening in my own backyard. I have dealt with MANY dog/cat rescues and have honestly lost faith in most "rescues". I highly doubt these people want any "publicity", from what I can infer, they were quite happy thinking their horses were hidden here. I have done my research after a good friend of mine warned me about them after her personally knowing them for years as well as my farrier saying he refuses to come here if they are here. My friend also sent me photos of the horses when they were healthy and they are completely unrecognizable. I could care less about these people, when horses are completely helpless and rely on humans for the basic necessities of life (food and water) and can't even receive it, that is a sad day. I have taken in a few rescues through the years, and in my experience in two months there should be a viable improvement, which I have not seen. I don't care what rescue or individual takes these animals as long as they receive the care and love that they deserve.

Bluey
Sep. 20, 2012, 03:36 PM
Best of luck to you Jhorne! I know of a local rescue/trainwreck where they had close ties with not only animal control, but the EMS which in turn also inclued the local law enforcement and they were all tangled up in one big ball of co-dependency that made it very difficult to find objective oversight.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean Bluey- Are they still trying to raise money? Are you implying that Jhorne is a false/lying identity who is going to somehow help donations flow in? I don't even understand how that would work.


Yes, Bluey, I'm a bit confused, are you thinking that I am trying to help them? If you would like to PM I could give you my phone number and address if you'd like to personally come out to my property and sit and chat with me. Trust me, considering I own four horses of my own and was a vet tech for five years, there is no way I could condone this behavior, especially when it is literally happening in my own backyard. I have dealt with MANY dog/cat rescues and have honestly lost faith in most "rescues". I highly doubt these people want any "publicity", from what I can infer, they were quite happy thinking their horses were hidden here. I have done my research after a good friend of mine warned me about them after her personally knowing them for years as well as my farrier saying he refuses to come here if they are here. My friend also sent me photos of the horses when they were healthy and they are completely unrecognizable. I could care less about these people, when horses are completely helpless and rely on humans for the basic necessities of life (food and water) and can't even receive it, that is a sad day. I have taken in a few rescues through the years, and in my experience in two months there should be a viable improvement, which I have not seen. I don't care what rescue or individual takes these animals as long as they receive the care and love that they deserve.

My comment was not about this rescue or those involved, that I don't know anything about, but about the different posters showing up with more details, on both sides and about who some rescues tend to attract in general.

I also know some running rescues that are above the board and don't fudge here or there.
I guess I should have added that to my post.:yes:

Jhorne89
Sep. 20, 2012, 04:25 PM
Okay, thanks for the clarification. Like I said, at first we gave them the benefit of the doubt, we heard plenty of bad things about them shortly after they arrived, but decided to use our own judgement, and I am so ashamed that a "horse lover" could treat animals like this. It's absolutely appalling.

goneriding24
Sep. 20, 2012, 04:46 PM
I'm so totally lost about this thread, but it's sorta good readin'.

Long Spot
Sep. 20, 2012, 04:48 PM
Jhorne, are you having to do some of the feeding yourself? Sounds like they aren't coming out every day (or some days just once a day)?

I'm sorry they ended up in your backyard, but glad to know that someone who knows what healthy looks like and what acceptable care is are there to keep an eye on things until they move on. Please keep us posted.

Fairfax
Sep. 20, 2012, 04:54 PM
Just be careful here Michaleenflynn... not all those against GG are created equal.
This particular poster thought that the situation Marsha Parkinson was keeping her Arab horses in was hunky-dory [imagine what those against keeping horse in NYC would think of the conditions these horses were being kept in] and had all kinds of conspiracy theories to explain why Marsha was being railroaded, including but not limited to the 'valuable' stock the rescues were 'grabbing' that MArsha couldn't sell herself and her uber 'valuable' [read rundown] property.

Angela..if only you could stick to the facts.

Rundown property...after the county was required to unblock the sale on the one piece, she was able to sell it...pay her lawyers around $500,000....and provide for her horses as they always had been in the past.

There was NEVER any concern about the property...neither the size of it...the barns...corrals...fencing...other than the damage done by the county, DEFHR and HSUS...

Oh...she has her horses back...

I would like to point out that due to the falsifying of information, photographs and witness observations and statements, the case was tossed EXCEPT for failure to provide sufficient shelters. But then, the judge viewed the video tapes, the pictures and he tossed it out. Some of the "loafing sheds" were nicer than many barns and could have up to 20 horses lounging in them

Her pre Revolution home with 14 fireplaces is far from run down. The barns and fences were criticized by the HSUS rep as they were NOT PRETTY to enhance the property.

You are out of the loop so one would have to ignore your comments...however when the judge read emails from HSUS and DEFHR stating the other rescues were to drop EACH HORSE by a minimum of 1 point and the HSUS rep claimed it would be a great training opportunity for her staff...well..it doesn't surprise me that you post as you do.

Hold your breath now...as the lawsuits are going to start hitting HSUS, DEFHR and all of the others inaddition to several other breeders in 2013

It was, as it always is...about the donations. No more.. No less

This was the post from GG recently:

Yes, after saving for 5 years, Gentle Giants was very excited to finally able to purchase it's own farm in the rescue's name. Gentle Giants purchased a 51 acre farm that was a turn-key equine operation, and the monthly cost is approximately a $3,000/month savings from our leased location. Additionally, we are no longer slave to a landlord who can raise rent and change terms, or end a lease with little notice. With 60 horses in residence, it would be difficult to relocate with short notice. All of Gentle Giants financial information is posted on www.Guidestar.org in a very timely manner for the public to see. Our annual independent audit is also available, and our monthly Board of Directors meetings are open to the public

Oh Oh...she forgot to mention that TERRIBLE landlord...INLAWS OWNED THE PROPERTY....whoops

AND This was posted by another person regarding GG


We had learned that Christine had bought a neighboring horse farm for at least $700,000. Well, it took 4 months, but Christine Hajeck just came across my review and doesn't sound happy! I believe she refers to 'leasing' the old farm, but at least part of it was leased from her own husband and family! Anyways, she requested an extension to file her 990 which was due in May. I believe she will have to file by November. So when she claims to file in a timely manner, she interprets 'timely' differently than I do. If anyone would like to add their own review of GG to this site, please feel free to join in! Can't wait to see her 2011 Form 990.



As for DEFHR...well well well..funny how all of them are alive and kicking..spending big bucks...DEFHR "leader" just acquired a home on the property for her daughter

It is not hard to have pie in the sky expectations for all breeders when, as a rescue...all of your labor is done by slaves (volunteers) all equipment and supplies provided by donations AND you live..all expenses paid with a HUGE pension at the end of the rainbow

Maybe you should start a rescue. It sounds right up your alley

Fairfax
Sep. 20, 2012, 05:00 PM
Yes, Bluey, I'm a bit confused, are you thinking that I am trying to help them? If you would like to PM I could give you my phone number and address if you'd like to personally come out to my property and sit and chat with me. Trust me, considering I own four horses of my own and was a vet tech for five years, there is no way I could condone this behavior, especially when it is literally happening in my own backyard. I have dealt with MANY dog/cat rescues and have honestly lost faith in most "rescues". I highly doubt these people want any "publicity", from what I can infer, they were quite happy thinking their horses were hidden here. I have done my research after a good friend of mine warned me about them after her personally knowing them for years as well as my farrier saying he refuses to come here if they are here. My friend also sent me photos of the horses when they were healthy and they are completely unrecognizable. I could care less about these people, when horses are completely helpless and rely on humans for the basic necessities of life (food and water) and can't even receive it, that is a sad day. I have taken in a few rescues through the years, and in my experience in two months there should be a viable improvement, which I have not seen. I don't care what rescue or individual takes these animals as long as they receive the care and love that they deserve.

I have a question for you. As a vet tech did you ever offer a medical evaluation on a horse or did a vet ever act on your recommendation without confirming for themselves?

We had the Robin Vess case where a young lady, Shayna Roberts volunteered (paid) by the local HS and during the raid she advised the vet that three mares should be euthanized as they were too unhealthy to load into a trailer. She was employed as a Vet Tech...but during the trial it was determined she had not even completed grade ten let alone Vet Tech training.

The vet acted on her "professional opinion" and killed the mares.

Have you ever heard of anything such as this happening anywhere else?

Thanks

Long Spot
Sep. 20, 2012, 05:06 PM
Stop trying to turn this into your personal agenda, Fairfax.

Fairfax
Sep. 20, 2012, 05:18 PM
Stop trying to turn this into your personal agenda, Fairfax.
I will correct Ms Freda when ever she takes a shot on a forum to spread her stories.

This is about ANOTHER Rescue closing...well..there will be more this year and next..

Jhorne89
Sep. 20, 2012, 05:22 PM
Fairfax, absolutely not. I would never personally trust a veterinarian who would make a medical decision for an animal based solely on the subjective examination of a vet tech. Yes, I have given medical evaluations to the veterinarians I have worked with, but they have always followed up with their own examination.

Long Spot, unfortunately they keep their feed locked in their trailer. They always only come out once a day on the days they do come out. For now the pasture the horses are is does still have grass, so they are at least able to graze some. It is by no means sufficient to sustain these animals, though.

luvmytbs
Sep. 20, 2012, 07:37 PM
I will correct Ms Freda when ever she takes a shot on a forum to spread her stories.



Good Lord Leo. Take a chill pill. :cool:

MRomanello
Sep. 20, 2012, 09:21 PM
Guys, this isn't about Gentle Giants. They had offered help for the horses. But this is about the horses that are in danger right now. The horses at Gentle Giants and DEFHR are not. They are healthy, happy horses.
It's a heartbreaking situation these horses are in and Leslie, herself, claims 12+ years of being a vet tech. The woman REFUSES help from anyone else. I'm not sure how this got derailed to talking about other rescues. This thread is about the emaciated horses.
Thanks!

7arabians
Sep. 21, 2012, 08:48 AM
It is very interesting to observe the politics within the general 'rescue' environment. First, we have a woman who may have been turned down for an adoption by FDHR. She is now leading a mud-slinging party, yet clearly states that she cannot afford even one horse!!! This makes inquiring minds suspicious about whether her lack of funds was in fact the reason she was denied an adoption???
More troubling is to see a giant rescue like GG sitting on its hands if there really are drafts in need in Florida! If it is true that they were able to raise over $700,000 to buy a new farm in less than 5 years, then they are not your average 501c3. Why are they not responding to this Florida situation? After blindly donating to GG, I had the blinders removed when I found out their fundraising plea to help a draft who 'had been beaten with a 2x4' and generated lots of donations, including mine, turned out to be a case of cancer!!!! I will never forgive them for that and I never received a refund and there was no apology. So, people, look close at every side of these 'urgent pleas' for the dear horses! There is always an agenda. Only a handful of rescues are legit. Do your research. Time to call out the pretenders!

Angela Freda
Sep. 21, 2012, 10:17 AM
I will correct Ms Freda when ever she takes a shot on a forum to spread her stories.

This is about ANOTHER Rescue closing...well..there will be more this year and next..

LOL My story?

It's the story of a shortsighted breeder who kept breeding while not being able or willing to sell or give horses away to help those horses or provide the income to care for the rest... horses that were overdue for dentals and farrier care [per Vets on scene] who had worm loads and lice... a breeder who had 10% of her herd so thin they had to be put down or later died... that many attributed to their being old. We all know that lame excuse for what it is.

That many in the Arab community gloss over the very basic facts of this case that started it all in the first place is rich.
Had she not neglected these animals, there would have been no grounds for law enforcement to come in and seize them or the subsequent actions on the part of the organizations who offered help to those very needy animals and did her the favor of returning them in a condition that was far better than the condition they left her farm in.

PS- any info on that groundbreaking press release Dr Henneke was on the verge of releasing re: the use/misuse of his BCS? You'll note I did not, after all, hold my breath for that one.

Angela Freda
Sep. 21, 2012, 10:20 AM
More troubling is to see a giant rescue like GG sitting on its hands if there really are drafts in need in Florida! If it is true that they were able to raise over $700,000 to buy a new farm in less than 5 years, then they are not your average 501c3. Why are they not responding to this Florida situation?
A rescue on it's own can not seize animals... ya' can't just show up on someone's property and take their animals unless you are law enforcement.

What their buying a facility at which to continue their good works has to do with the situation in Florida, other than providing an opportunity for those with a wild hair youknowwhere [because these rescue had the NERVE to help horses neglected by one they revere] to air their grievances... I can't even guess.

7arabians
Sep. 21, 2012, 11:39 AM
Investigation into several rescues has revealed untimely filings of tax returns, incredible increases in revenues, sweetheart deals involving land leases, etc. In the case of GG, they profess to only be driven by their concern for horses, yet ignore the Florida situation. They claim they have saved for 5 years to be able to spend almost a million dollars on a neighboring farm. Why don't their prior Form 990's show that? Why isn't their 2011 Form 990 filed by now? Many, many questions about GG and several other rescues. They will no longer operate without questions. Remember, 'trust but verify.' The yarn about the horse that was supposed to be beaten, but actually had cancer is beyond the pale. It is becoming the laughing stock of the rescue world. Angela, you always ask questions. Why not ask GG some questions. The problem of hungry horses will only become worse. Why no reaction to the plight of CCH?

MoonoverMississippi
Sep. 21, 2012, 12:05 PM
It is very interesting to observe the politics within the general 'rescue' environment. First, we have a woman who may have been turned down for an adoption by FDHR. She is now leading a mud-slinging party, yet clearly states that she cannot afford even one horse!!! This makes inquiring minds suspicious about whether her lack of funds was in fact the reason she was denied an adoption???
Time to call out the pretenders!


No dog in this fight, but if you are going to state "clearly", maybe you should read a bit closer; the text I read stated that she could only afford the horse she already had at that time and could not take another.

It really affects how seriously others take your posts. Back to the mud-slinging, lol.

LauraKY
Sep. 21, 2012, 12:28 PM
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are well run rescues, poorly run rescues, rescues with a financial cushion (which is a plus in my opinion) those who run well on a shoe string, those who meander from one financial catastrophe to another and then, the ones who are scam artists.

IMO, it's best to donate to a rescue near you, that you have personally checked out.

Edit: Forgot the hoarders. How could I forget the hoarders?

oliverreed
Sep. 21, 2012, 12:30 PM
Fairfax, absolutely not. I would never personally trust a veterinarian who would make a medical decision for an animal based solely on the subjective examination of a vet tech. Yes, I have given medical evaluations to the veterinarians I have worked with, but they have always followed up with their own examination.

Long Spot, unfortunately they keep their feed locked in their trailer. They always only come out once a day on the days they do come out. For now the pasture the horses are is does still have grass, so they are at least able to graze some. It is by no means sufficient to sustain these animals, though.

Let me see if I have this right - owners aren't feeding the horses, who are on your property, regularly by any stretch of the imagination. Are YOU feeding these horses, or just sitting around watching them starve? Do NOT mean this to come across as snarky as it probably sounds - I hope I am mistaken and that you ARE feeding them. It's just confusing.

Plainandtall
Sep. 21, 2012, 01:07 PM
I haven't really been able to follow this thread in quite a while, and I'm not sure if Gentle Giants had offered to help with the remaining horses owned by the people who used to run the Florida draft horse Rescue (and since the owners weren't asking for help it's not really relevant) but just to clarify, the rescue that I was aware of and mentioned not by name in this thread was not GG but Iron Gait Percherons who had several posts of concern on their FB page.

Jhorne89
Sep. 21, 2012, 01:12 PM
If you would like to donate the feed/money to have these horses fed, PLEASE by all means, drop on by! I have four horses of my own, including an emaciated thoroughbred that I had no intentions of taking in but that needed placement ASAP, after proper care of my own personal horses, my two dogs and my 3 year old son, I am terribly sorry that my funds do not stretch far enough to care for six draft horses that I have been thrust into a situation that I do not want to be in. Considering I have contacted the appropriate authorities regarding this situation, I feel that all that I am capable of doing, I have done. These horses WILL receive justice.

LauraKY
Sep. 21, 2012, 02:24 PM
Jhorne89, so you are watching them starve. Nice going.

oliverreed
Sep. 21, 2012, 02:26 PM
I am appalled.

oliverreed
Sep. 21, 2012, 02:28 PM
For God's sake, at least buy them some hay while you wait for AC/the ASPCA/whoever you have reported this to to show up!!!!!

Angela Freda
Sep. 21, 2012, 02:36 PM
Investigation into several rescues has revealed untimely filings of tax returns, incredible increases in revenues, sweetheart deals involving land leases, etc. In the case of GG, they profess to only be driven by their concern for horses, yet ignore the Florida situation.
Again they are not law enforcement, what do you think they should do?


They claim they have saved for 5 years to be able to spend almost a million dollars on a neighboring farm. Why don't their prior Form 990's show that? Why isn't their 2011 Form 990 filed by now?
Maybe because they are filed but the IRS has yet to put the 990 online?
Maybe because they got an extensions, something many rescues and other businesses do?
There are a variety of legitimate reasons for their 990 not being filed [or accessible to you], and if you've not called the IRS to ask, then you're just guessing... Buuuut if it fits your agenda, be my guest.
Same with the purchase of their farm, there are lots of reasons you could have missed their saving for a farm or for why you are not privy to those details.


Many, many questions about GG and several other rescues. They will no longer operate without questions. Remember, 'trust but verify.' The yarn about the horse that was supposed to be beaten, but actually had cancer is beyond the pale. It is becoming the laughing stock of the rescue world. Angela, you always ask questions. Why not ask GG some questions. The problem of hungry horses will only become worse. Why no reaction to the plight of CCH?
LOL I do ask questions. But honestly I am thrilled GG got a new farm and can help more horses and the red flags you seem to see are not obvious to me, sorry. So no, I'm not going to ask questions just because you think I should.
My suggestions is that rather than asking here [where no primaries from the rescue are]... ask them directly. Otherwise, it just looks like you're grinding an ax, and not really 'asking' anything.

MoonoverMississippi
Sep. 21, 2012, 02:55 PM
Oh for crap's sake people.

GG has offered financial support.

Jhorne says the horses the FL rescue has on their property aren't being fed.

Instead of wringing your hands and making snide comments why doesn't someone who knows GG call and put them in contact with Jhorne so they can set up something with a feed store and get feed to the hungry horses. I'm sure Jhorne wouldn't mind offering photo proof to GG, right?

I know, common sense is no fun on these types of threads.

Jhorne89
Sep. 21, 2012, 04:09 PM
Did I not state that two rolls of hay were placed in their pasture, or is this being overlooked?? I suppose as well as what I have already done making sure that proper action should be taken for these horses I should also make it my mission to provide feed and hay for all the neglected horses in Florida? And I would be MORE than happy to provide photos and any information to ensure these horses will be placed where they need to go. I am shocked that somehow now I feel as if this has been turned around to be my fault that these horses, which now I learn have been neglected for years under the care of these people, are in this condition, because that is most certainly what is being said here. Again, if anyone would like to donate feed/hay to these horses, you may personal message me and I will gladly provide you with information you will need. I simply had a feeling after being spoon fed lies from these people to look on the Internet and try to gather information I could, and I stumble across this thread. Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut and allowed them to move their horses to the next place and have this vicious cycle repeated? How simple it is to place blame on others when you are doing nothing to help!

Jhorne89
Sep. 21, 2012, 04:14 PM
Oh for crap's sake people.

GG has offered financial support.

Jhorne says the horses the FL rescue has on their property aren't being fed.

Instead of wringing your hands and making snide comments why doesn't someone who knows GG call and put them in contact with Jhorne so they can set up something with a feed store and get feed to the hungry horses. I'm sure Jhorne wouldn't mind offering photo proof to GG, right?

I know, common sense is no fun on these types of threads.

Thank you!! So easy to cast stones when you are not in the situation. Shame on me for not having deep enough pockets to feed these horses as they should be when I am caring for my own! Shame on me for contacting the authorities to ensure the horses will move on to proper homes! I will gladly provide the phone numbers to the two local feed stores if anyone would like to call directly and donate.

Jhorne89
Sep. 21, 2012, 04:19 PM
For God's sake, at least buy them some hay while you wait for AC/the ASPCA/whoever you have reported this to to show up!!!!!

If you would like to m the second donation of hay, you may contact Farm City 407 889 2822. The owners name is Chris, he knows the draft rescue as well as myself as I have been a costumer for years. You may let him know you will be purchasing a roll of coastal hay to be delivered.

Angela Freda
Sep. 21, 2012, 04:21 PM
Did I not state that two rolls of hay were placed in their pasture, or is this being overlooked?? I suppose as well as what I have already done making sure that proper action should be taken for these horses I should also make it my mission to provide feed and hay for all the neglected horses in Florida? And I would be MORE than happy to provide photos and any information to ensure these horses will be placed where they need to go. I am shocked that somehow now I feel as if this has been turned around to be my fault that these horses, which now I learn have been neglected for years under the care of these people, are in this condition, because that is most certainly what is being said here. Again, if anyone would like to donate feed/hay to these horses, you may personal message me and I will gladly provide you with information you will need. I simply had a feeling after being spoon fed lies from these people to look on the Internet and try to gather information I could, and I stumble across this thread. Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut and allowed them to move their horses to the next place and have this vicious cycle repeated? How simple it is to place blame on others when you are doing nothing to help!

If you've already contacted law enforcement I still don't understand how it is you keep throwing the blame for this situation not being resolved at the feet of GG.
What does GG have to do with it, law enforcement is who can and should act. Without them doing so, what is it you think GG can do?
And if there's someone to light a fire under it would be whomever you've reported the situation to.

MoonoverMississippi
Sep. 21, 2012, 04:26 PM
If you've already contacted law enforcement I still don't understand how it is you keep throwing the blame for this situation not being resolved at the feet of GG.
What does GG have to do with it, law enforcement is who can and should act. Without them doing so, what is it you think GG can do?
And if there's someone to light a fire under it would be whomever you've reported the situation to.


I must be missing it; where does this Jhorne say anything about GG?

MRomanello
Sep. 21, 2012, 04:37 PM
Thank you, MoonoverMississippi for clearing that up. I wasn't even denied adoption. I could not afford another horse when THEY askekd ME to take this horse. I had already gotten my Mustang through them earlier that year. I couldn't afford two horses at. The time. The story of being denied is just a way for her to make me less credible so people look past the dead and emaciated horses. It actually makes me laugh because my mustang was through her. Oh well!
JHorne has been doing what she could to help these horses but there is only so much a person can do. She isn't letting them starve. they are given round rolls to help while also being on her grass.
And Gentle Giants has nothing to do with this. They offered a place to land and financial support but there is only so much they can do in MD.

Jhorne89
Sep. 21, 2012, 04:42 PM
If you've already contacted law enforcement I still don't understand how it is you keep throwing the blame for this situation not being resolved at the feet of GG.
What does GG have to do with it, law enforcement is who can and should act. Without them doing so, what is it you think GG can do?
And if there's someone to light a fire under it would be whomever you've reported the situation to.

When did I say anything about GG? I had never even heard of them before this thread! I have dealt with hunter horses my entire riding life, this is my first experience with draft horses or a "rescue" of any sort, so please tell me where I have complained about an organization that I don't even know!

Fairfax
Sep. 21, 2012, 06:45 PM
LOL My story?

It's the story of a shortsighted breeder who kept breeding while not being able or willing to sell or give horses away to help those horses or provide the income to care for the rest... horses that were overdue for dentals and farrier care [per Vets on scene] who had worm loads and lice... a breeder who had 10% of her herd so thin they had to be put down or later died... that many attributed to their being old. We all know that lame excuse for what it is.

That many in the Arab community gloss over the very basic facts of this case that started it all in the first place is rich.
Had she not neglected these animals, there would have been no grounds for law enforcement to come in and seize them or the subsequent actions on the part of the organizations who offered help to those very needy animals and did her the favor of returning them in a condition that was far better than the condition they left her farm in.

PS- any info on that groundbreaking press release Dr Henneke was on the verge of releasing re: the use/misuse of his BCS? You'll note I did not, after all, hold my breath for that one.

Eh? No horses died. Yes, she did put down six due to extreme age BEFORE the seizure.

Dr. Henneke already posted that and it was covered by numerous publications..We also printed it on Speak Easy.

Like your real estate evaluation...just one more WRONG on your part.

At the replevin hearing Dr. Forney stated, under oath..he did NOT authorize NOR support seizure of any horses. He had not scored any horse by any method. That was done by the HSUS rep.

Dr. Terry Corkran stated, under oath, he was only there to check a horse for choking AND...here is the kicker....he looked at a horse from a distance to identify a lice infection.

You already knew she had quit breeding a couple of years before...no sense in rehashing all of your stories

Funny how you now forget about the sale of the pasture property that the lawyers sued the county to get unblocked. You also fail to remember that the original complaint was SIGNED BY A LAND DEVELOPER who was in partnership with the Animal Control Agents brother in real estate dealings. You also fail to remember that the wife of the AC agent had been the head of the land approval county division that restricted the sale.

Did you know that Queen Anne County has ANOTHER SUIT against it...WOW..for FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS in damages by another party.

This can and does happen to breeders, ESPECIALLY WOMEN, all across the United States.

Here is a piece written for the courts by Dr. Don Henneke who volunteered FOR FREE to be an expert witness on his own scale.

At the time of seizure, the horses in question were not being neglected and should have not been removed from the care of Ms. Parkinson. Ms. Parkinson was abiding by the agreement made on Aril 15, 2011 between her and the Department of Animal Control. The horses should have remained in her care and custody as long as she met the conditions of the agreement. Seizure and removal of the horses from the farm probably had an adverse effect on their health and well being.
This seizure appears to have been conducted to make a point. The videos indicate that the majority of the people present at the seizure were not trained in the application of the BCS, and the one person who was “trained” exhibited extreme bias in her instructions and comments. At the very least, this person showed a complete lack of understanding concerning the fat deposition patterns of the Arabian horse. She did not demonstrate in any manner an ability to accurately apply the BCS accurately to this breed that has distinct evolutionary differences from many other breeds concerning the storage of fat.
It is my professional opinion, that the charges of neglect against Ms. Parkinson were not warranted. The horses should not have been removed from her control and custody. Her efforts to conform to the agreement between herself and Animal Control should be commended.
This statement was prepared on February 26, 2012.
Don R. Henneke, Ph.D.

Of course Ms Freda..you will claim he did not write this however on COTH it was also printed and many of the Cothers then stated he was not a Dr. he was a fraud..because the tool Rescues had been using to seize horses ILLEGALLY was now removed.

He also provided his phone number which was printed on this forum and he told me ONE PERSON CALLED...and yet there were over 50 posts from others saying it was fake etc.

Why is it so many, such as yourself, refuse to even spend ONE DOLLAR to check facts? Oh..wait...that would end the destruction of a breeder so you would not be able to school yard pile on them.

Wait until the lawsuit and many more against HSUS are settled in 2013

luvmytbs
Sep. 21, 2012, 06:56 PM
Eh? No horses died. Yes, she did put down six due to extreme age BEFORE the seizure.

Dr. Henneke already posted that and it was covered by numerous publications..We also printed it on Speak Easy.

Like your real estate evaluation...just one more WRONG on your part.

At the replevin hearing Dr. Forney stated, under oath..he did NOT authorize NOR support seizure of any horses. He had not scored any horse by any method. That was done by the HSUS rep.

Dr. Terry Corkran stated, under oath, he was only there to check a horse for choking AND...here is the kicker....he looked at a horse from a distance to identify a lice infection.

You already knew she had quit breeding a couple of years before...no sense in rehashing all of your stories

Funny how you now forget about the sale of the pasture property that the lawyers sued the county to get unblocked. You also fail to remember that the original complaint was SIGNED BY A LAND DEVELOPER who was in partnership with the Animal Control Agents brother in real estate dealings. You also fail to remember that the wife of the AC agent had been the head of the land approval county division that restricted the sale.

Did you know that Queen Anne County has ANOTHER SUIT against it...WOW..for FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS in damages by another party.

This can and does happen to breeders, ESPECIALLY WOMEN, all across the United States.

Here is a piece written for the courts by Dr. Don Henneke who volunteered FOR FREE to be an expert witness on his own scale.

At the time of seizure, the horses in question were not being neglected and should have not been removed from the care of Ms. Parkinson. Ms. Parkinson was abiding by the agreement made on Aril 15, 2011 between her and the Department of Animal Control. The horses should have remained in her care and custody as long as she met the conditions of the agreement. Seizure and removal of the horses from the farm probably had an adverse effect on their health and well being.
This seizure appears to have been conducted to make a point. The videos indicate that the majority of the people present at the seizure were not trained in the application of the BCS, and the one person who was “trained” exhibited extreme bias in her instructions and comments. At the very least, this person showed a complete lack of understanding concerning the fat deposition patterns of the Arabian horse. She did not demonstrate in any manner an ability to accurately apply the BCS accurately to this breed that has distinct evolutionary differences from many other breeds concerning the storage of fat.
It is my professional opinion, that the charges of neglect against Ms. Parkinson were not warranted. The horses should not have been removed from her control and custody. Her efforts to conform to the agreement between herself and Animal Control should be commended.
This statement was prepared on February 26, 2012.
Don R. Henneke, Ph.D.

Of course Ms Freda..you will claim he did not write this however on COTH it was also printed and many of the Cothers then stated he was not a Dr. he was a fraud..because the tool Rescues had been using to seize horses ILLEGALLY was now removed.

He also provided his phone number which was printed on this forum and he told me ONE PERSON CALLED...and yet there were over 50 posts from others saying it was fake etc.

Why is it so many, such as yourself, refuse to even spend ONE DOLLAR to check facts? Oh..wait...that would end the destruction of a breeder so you would not be able to school yard pile on them.

Wait until the lawsuit and many more against HSUS are settled in 2013

Take it to another thread already, or, better yet, TAKE A CHILL PILL !!!!!

Fairfax
Sep. 21, 2012, 07:02 PM
Take it to another thread already, or, better yet, TAKE A CHILL PILL !!!!!

Lovey

This is relevant to ALL rescues...but then you have clearly demonstrated that when FACTS are presented with proof, you want to silence the messenger.

This is, however very important for this case here...about the horses...as this is the written report by Dr. Don Henneke clearly showing the misuse of his scoring system



(MIS)USE OF THE BCS IN ALLEGED NEGLECT

Over the past year, cases of alleged horse neglect have skyrocketed across the United States. I have been contacted by people from California to Maryland, from Minnesota to Texas, and from New York to Arizona. This phenomenon has reached epidemic proportions. Minnesota alone reportedly investigated almost 400 cases in 2011. Most of these can be attributed to the down economy and the drought making it difficult for horse owners to feed their horses like they would like to feed them. Therefore, we are seeing a lot more horses in below average body condition. That does not make every thin horse a neglected or abused horse.
Over the past decade, the Body Condition Scoring System for Horses (BCS) has become, in many if not most cases, the sole reason for seizure for neglect or abuse. The problem with this is that the BCS was not designed to reflect the health or well-being of the horse. The BCS provides an estimate of stored body fat, period. From a physiological standpoint, as long as a horse has any fat reserves and is receiving a diet that meets its daily maintenance requirements, that horse can be healthy.
For example, The Minimum Standards of Horse Care in the State of California (2011) arbitrarily indicates that any horse with a BCS of less than 3 does not meet the minimum standard. By definition, a BCS 3 horse still has reserves of body fat. Once a horse gets below a BCS 3, then reserves are low. However, the health of the horse is only in jeopardy if it is breaking down non-fat tissue to provide for its basic energy needs. The BCS cannot measure this function.
Breakdown of non-adipose tissue for energy can be evaluated through blood analysis focusing on liver and kidney function, and the breakdown of structural tissue for energy. Blood urea nitrogen, creatinine, and the ratio of blood urea nitrogen level to creatinine level are indicators of tissue breakdown. Analysis for hematocrit, serum concentrations of total protein solids, sodium, calcium, potassium, triglycerides, bilirubin, and albumin will also provide information concerning malnutrition and starvation. None of these tests are accurate on their own. However, evaluation of matching trends from the analysis can help confirm or disprove that the horse is nutritionally deprived.
In addition, the presence, or absence, of other physical indicators of inadequate energy intake should be used to evaluate alleged neglect. Energy deprived horses will be lethargic. Their reaction to stimuli will be depressed. They will usually show signs of dehydration: tacky gums, “tenting” of skin on the neck, concentrated urine with a very strong odor, and decreased fecal output. Coprophagy, the consumption of feces, is usually very pronounced in energy deprived horses, especially those kept in groups. Since energy deprivation is usually accompanied by protein deficits, the hair coat will dull and shaggy. It is imperative that a low BCS score be supported by other clinical signs of starvation to indicate nutritional neglect.
The presence, or absence, of feed and hay on the premises is an excellent indicator of the ability of the owner to meet the nutritional needs of their horses. If adequate feed and hay is present to meet the needs of the animals, then seizure is not warranted. Few, if any, horse owners will refuse to feed their horses if feed is available.
Adding to the problem is that many “evaluators” have not received any formal training in the application of the BCS. They do not understand the physiology of fat deposition and utilization, they are not knowledgeable in conformation and breed characteristics that will influence the BCS, and most often they have personal biases that lower their estimate. The BCS is designed as a ranking system. It was never designed to be exact and it cannot be exact because of differences in breeds, size, age, and conformation between horses. It is a guideline. If the average lay horse owner gets within 1 body condition score, plus or minus, of the horses actual condition, they are doing a good job. Seizing a horse based solely on an untrained person’s estimated BCS is a very questionable practice.
I find it very disturbing that humane societies and local authorities have utilized the BCS in such a manner. There are definitely cases of neglect and abuse that need to be dealt with in a quick and decisive manner. However, care must be taken to be sure that the animals are truly being starved and that requires supporting evidence from their other physical parameters and blood analysis. My recommendation to all parties is that if neglect or abuse due to nutrition deprivation is suspected,
1. The evaluator must exhibit the ability to offer a trained, unbiased opinion based solely on the stored body fat of the animal. If seizure is to be considered, the evaluation of the animals by a qualified, impartial third person should be required.
2. A BCS of less than 3 is not cause for automatic seizure. The animals in question must exhibit altered metabolism confirmed by blood analysis or other physical signs consistent with malnutrition before they can be seized for inadequate body condition. If it is determined that the horse needs immediate attention, a veterinarian of the owner’s choosing should provide those supporting procedures. These procedures may be done with supervision by the legal authorities.
3. Only horses exhibiting altered metabolism and having inadequate feed stores on the premises should be seized. Removing healthy horses from their home is not necessary and may often result in adverse consequences due to stress created by a new environment and untrained handlers.
4. If at all possible, the alleged neglected horses should remain at the owner’s farm. Removing any horse from its familiar environment, drastically changing its diet, and exposing it to a new set of handlers will usually result in stress and a further loss of body condition. In the vast majority of cases, if the intent is truly the best care of the horse, that care can best be administered in familiar surroundings. If the legal authorities require, care can be conducted under their official guidance.
“Innocent until proven guilty” is the most abused legal standard in America today. Due to biased press coverage, most “trials” are conducted before the accused ever has a chance to answer the charges. Once a horse owner has been accused of neglect, they are stained for life. If they are later proven to be innocent, the public has already painted them with a negative picture. This should not happen. It is imperative that the state authorities demonstrate adequate cause for seizure. Unsupported claims of neglect against a horse owner should be followed by a vigorous public campaign by the state authorities criticizing the parties who have filed a frivolous claim and, if possible, such parties should be prosecuted by the state.Author’s Information:
Don Henneke, Ph.D., is currently the Director of Equine Science at Tarleton State University, Stephenville, TX. Dr. Henneke was the principal investigator in developing the Body Condition Scoring System for Horses at Texas A&M University in 1979.

There are several prolific posters such as yourself who encourage others to jump in...make incorrect posts and then try and silence anyone who responds..

D_BaldStockings
Sep. 21, 2012, 07:10 PM
from my understanding:
Owner has moved the horses to JHorne89's facility -was any agreement in writing?

Owner is not providing feed or adequate care? JHorne89 have you documented dates, etc. to the complaints you have filed with authorities?

JHorne was providing feed but can't continue.

Several other rescues have made offers but cannot/will not proceed unless there is a surrender or seizure; neither of which seem likely before horses, well, die.

What to do?

I'd say JHorne89 must make a written demand letter for feed, payment for past feed, etc. to Owner, combined with a demand to move the horses within XXdays or they will be considered abandoned per state law (find out ASAP exact procedure and follow it.) sent certified return receipt. and cc any and all rescues and the authorities.

I'd also send a letter requesting confirmation that any rescues are going to take the horses if JHorne89 surrenders them to the rescue.

Then follow through.



It won't be pretty or fun. But it is better than watching horses go down in your pastures and guess who is also liable if they are under your care -you are.

Get busy, get tough. Owner can move, abandon or surrender the horses.

You don't have to put up with the situation - change it!

Jhorne89
Sep. 21, 2012, 07:52 PM
from my understanding:
Owner has moved the horses to JHorne89's facility -was any agreement in writing?

Owner is not providing feed or adequate care? JHorne89 have you documented dates, etc. to the complaints you have filed with authorities?

JHorne was providing feed but can't continue.

Several other rescues have made offers but cannot/will not proceed unless there is a surrender or seizure; neither of which seem likely before horses, well, die.

What to do?

I'd say JHorne89 must make a written demand letter for feed, payment for past feed, etc. to Owner, combined with a demand to move the horses within XXdays or they will be considered abandoned per state law (find out ASAP exact procedure and follow it.) sent certified return receipt. and cc any and all rescues and the authorities.

I'd also send a letter requesting confirmation that any rescues are going to take the horses if JHorne89 surrenders them to the rescue.

Then follow through.



It won't be pretty or fun. But it is better than watching horses go down in your pastures and guess who is also liable if they are under your care -you are.

Get busy, get tough. Owner can move, abandon or surrender the horses.

You don't have to put up with the situation - change it!

No, they were leased a pasture on my property on
A rough board situation. The agreement was they were to provide their own feed/hay and care for the horses. They are responsible for purchasing the feed and feeding the horses daily. I gave them an immense discount which I was told when they moved not to worry about money, they had it, etc, etc. well, they don't even have money for board let alone feed. They owe board still, do I care? No. The board contract states that they are to provide all care/feed/etc. I have documented all and have photos, unfortunantely I was told it is a long process if law enforcement even decides to persue it! It is a lot stickier of a situation than most realize, one of the owners worked as an animal control officer in my same county and apparently still has ties with them.. I was told he was fired due to investigation regarding the animals prior to moving them to my facility.

7arabians
Sep. 21, 2012, 09:46 PM
JHorne89,

Please be very careful and quickly research Florida law before this goes any further. In many jurisdictions, a person in your position can/will be held responsible for the care/condition of the horses. Occasionally, the landowner is excluded from charges if they have no knowledge of the condition of the horses ie; you were leasing some remote property in another state and would not reasonably be expected to know if the horses were being fed.
In this case, you have exposed these horses' condition as well as your knowledge of same. Therefore; many courts will hold you responsible. Kudos for trying to get these horses some help, but you may have to step up now to feed them to avoid bigger problems later!

Jhorne89
Sep. 21, 2012, 09:56 PM
JHorne89,

Please be very careful and quickly research Florida law before this goes any further. In many jurisdictions, a person in your position can/will be held responsible for the care/condition of the horses. Occasionally, the landowner is excluded from charges if they have no knowledge of the condition of the horses ie; you were leasing some remote property in another state and would not reasonably be expected to know if the horses were being fed.
In this case, you have exposed these horses' condition as well as your knowledge of same. Therefore; many courts will hold you responsible. Kudos for trying to get these horses some help, but you may have to step up now to feed them to avoid bigger problems later!

That was one of my concerns I expressed to the SPCA officer and he advised me that I was in the clear as I was the person reporting and working with the investigation. This has soured me beyond belief! These people have a network of people willing to lie for them (vet, farrier, etc) and it is sickening.

D_BaldStockings
Sep. 21, 2012, 11:18 PM
That was one of my concerns I expressed to the SPCA officer and he advised me that I was in the clear as I was the person reporting and working with the investigation. This has soured me beyond belief! These people have a network of people willing to lie for them (vet, farrier, etc) and it is sickening.

Talk to an attorney about your situation and how to get out from under this burden.

Bluey
Sep. 21, 2012, 11:43 PM
That was one of my concerns I expressed to the SPCA officer and he advised me that I was in the clear as I was the person reporting and working with the investigation. This has soured me beyond belief! These people have a network of people willing to lie for them (vet, farrier, etc) and it is sickening.

You seem to be stuck with those horses.
If you feed and water them, care for them, AC can't do anything, they are not abused or mismanaged.
If you don't, then they can come get them, but you will be part of the case, as they are on your land.

Do talk to an attorney about lien laws on boarding/pasture renting and abandoned horses, as they apply in your state and situation, so you can remedy this legally, without getting in legal trouble yourself.

Jhorne89
Sep. 25, 2012, 02:11 PM
Orange county agriculture sheriff is currently investigating. We are under no liability and were advised that we can start a civil suit against them if we want.

Lori T
Sep. 25, 2012, 03:51 PM
Orange county agriculture sheriff is currently investigating. We are under no liability and were advised that we can start a civil suit against them if we want.

Good luck with that.
When I ran my rescue, I dreaded getting calls regarding horses in Orange County. One case, the deputy told me he would arrest me if I called them again! They spent a total of 5 minutes on the property (not knowing I was still parked outside, watching), and then lied to me, telling me that they were there for over 30 minutes, had spoken to the vet ( which I verified that they had not) and that there was plenty of feed for the horse, which there was not. They seemed to think that I enjoyed having horses surrendered to me to care for! I hope for your sake and these horses that they have changed their ways. Seminole County and Officer Love were so much easier to deal with!

Jhorne89
Sep. 26, 2012, 11:00 AM
Good luck with that.
When I ran my rescue, I dreaded getting calls regarding horses in Orange County. One case, the deputy told me he would arrest me if I called them again! They spent a total of 5 minutes on the property (not knowing I was still parked outside, watching), and then lied to me, telling me that they were there for over 30 minutes, had spoken to the vet ( which I verified that they had not) and that there was plenty of feed for the horse, which there was not. They seemed to think that I enjoyed having horses surrendered to me to care for! I hope for your sake and these horses that they have changed their ways. Seminole County and Officer Love were so much easier to deal with!

I seriously wonder where our tax dollars go! This officer was very nice, he was out for an hour and we showed him what evidence we had, dates, numbers, etc. he is an agriculture sheriff and actually had a knowledge of horses, I was shocked! Even when my horses were harassing him he was still nice ;) I have a pretty good feeling that things will go good for these poor horses.

MoonoverMississippi
Sep. 26, 2012, 11:05 AM
Curious,
have you heard from the rescue (GG?) that was offering financial support? I noticed their cheerleaders have been absent since accusing you of badmouthing the rescue....I hope you get all the help you need from local and other sources.

Lori T
Sep. 26, 2012, 01:58 PM
I seriously wonder where our tax dollars go! This officer was very nice, he was out for an hour and we showed him what evidence we had, dates, numbers, etc. he is an agriculture sheriff and actually had a knowledge of horses, I was shocked! Even when my horses were harassing him he was still nice ;) I have a pretty good feeling that things will go good for these poor horses.

Thank heaven! I hope things are changing for the sake of the horses in Orange county.

Jhorne89
Sep. 28, 2012, 02:38 PM
Curious,
have you heard from the rescue (GG?) that was offering financial support? I noticed their cheerleaders have been absent since accusing you of badmouthing the rescue....I hope you get all the help you need from local and other sources.

No, I have never heard from anyone nor spoken with anyone other than the agriculture sheriff and ASPCA.

ldaziens
Sep. 28, 2012, 03:56 PM
Talk to an attorney about your situation and how to get out from under this burden.

DEFINITELY, you need an ATTORNEY to represent YOUR best interests -- especially since you own the property. The SPCA, Law Enforcement, CoTH, etc. are NOT going to protect YOU.

As a wise person recently advised me:
"On a plane, when the oxygen mask comes down; the responsible thing is to help YOURSELF first. THEN, attempt to help others"

ldaziens
Sep. 28, 2012, 04:11 PM
Orange county agriculture sheriff is currently investigating. We are under no liability and were advised that we can start a civil suit against them if we want.

I cannot emphasize strongly enough that you really, really, really need to consult with an ATTORNEY. Lots of officials tell lots of people lots of different things. Your sheriff may be a wonderful person; but his job is not to protect your best interests. It sounds like at this point you are providing minimal care for these horses without compensation, so I can't see why any local authorities will be in any rush to invest the resources of time and money into this situation when there are worse fires to put out.

Please, please, please consult w/ an attorney TODAY. I am afraid you are going to end up way over your head and financially hurt by this. You have indicated that you are not in a position to take on the full financial and caregiving responsibilities for these horses; and an attorney can help you protect your interests and perhaps come up with a more immediate solution for the horses as well.

ATTORNEY - NOW!

Bluey
Sep. 28, 2012, 04:26 PM
I still think that, if the horses are not taken care properly, if the officers in charge tell you you won't be responsible, I would still not take their word for it.

If this goes to court, it won't look good to say you didn't care for horses in need on your place because you were told you didn't need to, especially since you did rent them the place, so were involved with this.:rolleyes:

Who will be calling the vet and paying said vet if one gets sick on your place?:eek:

Don't take chances, get an attorney on your side and have it put a fire under someone's behind, so the horses are cared for and moved asap.
Don't keep letting time pass, especially if the horses may not be cared for properly, no matter who's responsibility they may be.:(

Jhorne89
Oct. 1, 2012, 11:27 AM
Update: the horses are off the property and the "owners" are still under investigation. I received an email from an acquaintance yesterday that apparently what they are telling people this time is that I was feeding my horses with their feed and not feeding theirs (which is so far from the truth it's ridiculous, it was never in the contract did me to even feed their horses their own feed!). So, once again, they find fault and blame in somebody other than themselves. Con artist to the core.

Bluey
Oct. 1, 2012, 11:49 AM
Update: the horses are off the property and the "owners" are still under investigation. I received an email from an acquaintance yesterday that apparently what they are telling people this time is that I was feeding my horses with their feed and not feeding theirs (which is so far from the truth it's ridiculous, it was never in the contract did me to even feed their horses their own feed!). So, once again, they find fault and blame in somebody other than themselves. Con artist to the core.

You may want to contact your local TV station about a PSA type story on rescues, showing good ones and questionable ones and giving them your experience with a questionable one for their story.
Their protests will then sound a bit hollow.

ldaziens
Oct. 1, 2012, 12:49 PM
Update: the horses are off the property and the "owners" are still under investigation. I received an email from an acquaintance yesterday that apparently what they are telling people this time is that I was feeding my horses with their feed and not feeding theirs (which is so far from the truth it's ridiculous, it was never in the contract did me to even feed their horses their own feed!). So, once again, they find fault and blame in somebody other than themselves. Con artist to the core.

Again -- get an attorney -- they are accusing you of theft and animal neglect. If those accusations are untrue, they are engaging in slander / libel. Personally, I would have an attorney at the very least draft up a letter telling them to cease and desist. Then, I would file in Small Claims Court for the unpaid boarding -- assuming the amount is under the cap.

Tme & again, it is the official court records of judgments, etc. that get these people shut down.

Also, if it is the case, make sure the Sheriff's office understands that these people were actively soliciting donations while neglecting their horses. The authorities are MUCH more interested in financial fraud than they are in animal abuse / neglect. You can read about the fraud case against Stephanie Hanchett / A Ton of Love Horse Rescue - concerned people had repeatedly contacted the local authorities about the neglect, but it was the financial fraud that got the authorities motivated. When a group claims to be a non-profit and starts taking donations over the internet and from out of state; a lot of government entities are interested in that.

There are legitimate draft rescues that could help out these horses; but they aren't going to send these people money or buy the horses from them. It is important not to contribute money which enables them to keep getting more horses to neglect.

Plainandtall
Oct. 1, 2012, 12:52 PM
Glad they are off your land.

ldaziens
Oct. 1, 2012, 12:52 PM
Here is a link to a story on Stephanie Hanchett / A Ton of Love Draft Horse Rescue, which illustrates that it took the Fraud charges to get authorities to act on the abuse & neglect -

http://www.wbng.com/news/local/Horse-Rescue-After-Abuse-and-Fraud-Charges-Against-Owner-128417173.html

maxismomma
Oct. 1, 2012, 08:21 PM
I started to read these postings to see why a horse rescue might close. As I read I started to get a bit angry reading all these things that these people have done. I could not believe what I was reading. At one point JHORNE88 wrote that if anyone wanted to buy hay to to call Farm City and talk to the owne Chrisr. I did so I called. Chris is not the owner. He is the son of the owner. He makes delivers. This horse rescue does not do business with them and the gentlemen who answered the phone said he did not know of them but he was aware of a woman named Jessica Horne. He told me about her horses and the condition of them.
I could not sleep that night.
I found many things disturbing in this thread. It reminded me of high school with people ganging up on a rumour that one of the kids started spreading. I started looking into the names and people.
I will tell you that the people who are responsible for this thread are very lucky that this slander was not made against me. That being said, many things are true but most were not.
JHorne88 and MRomanelloe are friends. If they were not before these people moved thier own horses they are now.
The pictures of these dying horses were not horses who died from starvation. "Bleeding out: is caused by being poisioned.
A Vet and other professionals are not going to risk thier professional careers and financial stability by standing up and lying for someone they are not related to. By stating that you ave slandered them and by rights they should be coming after you.
They have been investigated numerous times. The male who worked for OC was notallowed to be involved in any of these. He was not let go for any reason having to due with the horse rescue.
The fed for the horses was locked in the trailer because there was no feed room for them at JHORNE88's property.
MRomanello adopted a connemerra pony not a mustang. If she thinks she has one...well either she does not know horses or she as gotten rid of this one and got another some other place.

I am asking that if JHORNE88 or MRomanello are sure of all that thye have posted, tat they go to the TV station and get them involved. Go after the VET. Get the authorities to ask for feed bills and records of horses health.

I have a very bitter taste in my mouth for people who bad mouth others but do not have the stones to go and take care of the animals in question. Go to the people and ask to be able to feed them when they are unable to fed them. Water them. You say you are a vet tech. I can only assume a small animal tech because if you were a large animal ou would have called in favors or gone to your own boss or former boss or vet and get the help you need. My opinion is that you and these people do not gel and because of that you have taken it upon yourself to let the world know what you say you have found. (date stamoed pictures are the best).

A bit of housekeeping. My comments are made by what I have been able to get from talkign to various people. JHORNE88 started me thinking to do this in her thread of calling the feed store. What was told to me was heresay of course and must be treated as such. When you rented this land you must have done a lease or some other type of paperwork to protect yourself and keep records for your taxes (you are claiming this rental income on your taxes I am assuming...lol). When you do that any other expenses can be claimed if you can document them. Just be sure to keep your records straight as it is a bear to straighten up at a later date.

Stephanie Hanchett has nothing to do with the Florida Draft Horse Rescue. To add them to this link is a fine line. She also has nothing to do with GG from what I can find out in my research.

I ask that all of you reading this thread take all comments including mine with a grain of salt. Sometimes when feelings get hurt people get angry and feel they have no other recourse but to lash out and try to hurt those who have hurt them. We all have done it to some extent at one time or another. On a public forum it can cause unrepairable harm. I am sure each of these woman involved felt they were acting in the best interests of the animals when the best interest would be to try to take care of the anmals until the authorities could act. After all, it is the horses that matter, not the name calling and mud slinging.

LauraKY
Oct. 1, 2012, 08:31 PM
More newbies! Popcorn and margarita time?

luvmytbs
Oct. 1, 2012, 08:34 PM
More newbies! Popcorn and margarita time?

I am not even sure I understood what mm was trying to relay. :lol:

Bluey
Oct. 1, 2012, 08:35 PM
More newbies! Popcorn and margarita time?

I can't tell from all that who the house guest is for or against.:confused:

ldaziens
Oct. 2, 2012, 01:52 AM
My personal opinion is that when one starts taking money from other people; one should expect a higher level of scrutiny. It's not high school; it's legally responsible grownups.

And, I know that I have read a few too many rescue horror stories. With the bad economy, there are more and more horses being neglected. When neglected horses are seized, they go to rescues. So, it is especially heartbreaking & angering to hear about horses being removed from one bad situation and ending up worse off at a rescue -- when inevitably that rescue raised funds using publicity from the seizure.

There are a couple of other threads on CoTH now about current seizures, which I personally think, based on what I have read thus far, needed to happen; but there are real concerns about what will happen to the seized horses given questions about the "rescuers":
Washington Dr. & Arabian Breeder raided by DEA for running a "pill mill"
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=369369&highlight=cch&page=6

" Anderson acknowledged that many of the seized horses appear well-fed and that food and water was readily available in the Diller barns."
...
"Anderson has taken personal charge of the rescue operation and seems determined to avoid the disappointments that occurred in the county’s last large-scale horse rescue – the Darlene Wilson 40-horse episode of 2010. In this occurrence, the PCAC tried to partner with a local equine rescue organization that ultimately found itself without sufficient resources to properly care for its initial installment of twenty horses. Ultimately, the rescue group had to euthanize about ten of the horses, and eventually the PCAC had to intervene and take a handful of horses. Finally, the remaining ten horses were court –ordered to be sold.

Further, criminal charges against Ms. Wilson have stretched out through the months, and the drama has shown the difficulties in a successful prosecution of horse abuse."
Excerpted from-
http://themountainnewswa.net/2012/09/30/seizure-of-39-horses-in-graham-reveals-massive-dea-drug-investigation/

And, in Nevada,

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368636&highlight=cch

Aside from the misery "rescues gone bad" inflict on the horses in their care; the bad rescues are defrauding donors AND the bad rescues do great harm to the good rescues who could have used those donated dollars effectively. Charitable giving and fraud go hand-in-hand - unfortunately.

FWIW, I mentioned the Stephanie Hanchett / A Ton of Love story; because it's a case study in the "authorities" doing nothing when faced with severe neglect / abuse -- but perking up when they realized there was a financial fraud case there that was easy to prove since most donations were made via the internet (PayPal).

I don't know what the answer is, but I try to make sure that I do homework before donating to anything. And, I don't know much about Gentle Giant except that when I lived in DC, I looked into visiting; and they seemed to have lots of visiting times and opportunities to volunteer -- which is one positive indicator. I like to see a professionally run non-profit where there is an independent Board of Directors and paid professional employees to run operations and supervise volunteers. I am not opposed to a well run non-profit taking in lots of donations, paying competitive wages, and having a sizeable nest egg / reserve fund -- as long as things are transparent to donors; professional is better than well intentioned bleeding heart in my book.

Bluey
Oct. 2, 2012, 08:15 AM
As your question why authorities don't do more about bad rescues taking money and not doing what they should with it, about that kind of fraud, maybe because it is low on their workload.
Why, because if gullible people want to donate just because there is a well told sob story asking for money, it really is up to the one donating to pause, use common sense and not donate to just anyone with it's hand out.

Sure, it is illegal, but the consequences, that some are out some donated money, that is very low in the large load of work police, the courts and those in charge have to handle.

cowgirljenn
Oct. 2, 2012, 09:14 AM
As your question why authorities don't do more about bad rescues taking money and not doing what they should with it, about that kind of fraud, maybe because it is low on their workload.
Why, because if gullible people want to donate just because there is a well told sob story asking for money, it really is up to the one donating to pause, use common sense and not donate to just anyone with it's hand out.

Sure, it is illegal, but the consequences, that some are out some donated money, that is very low in the large load of work police, the courts and those in charge have to handle.

I think that's probably a big part of it. Plus I think often the people who give money and are defrauded don't come forward to complain. They get mad, they refuse to donate again, but they either don't know there is something that can be done or they don't want to go through all the stress of getting involved.

Plainandtall
Oct. 2, 2012, 09:35 AM
Idaziens- You made a very interesting point:

"FWIW, I mentioned the Stephanie Hanchett / A Ton of Love story; because it's a case study in the "authorities" doing nothing when faced with severe neglect / abuse -- but perking up when they realized there was a financial fraud case there that was easy to prove since most donations were made via the internet (PayPal). "

Even though the story is plainly told- I never connected that obvious point you made there.!

ldaziens
Oct. 3, 2012, 07:44 PM
As your question why authorities don't do more about bad rescues taking money and not doing what they should with it, about that kind of fraud, maybe because it is low on their workload.
Why, because if gullible people want to donate just because there is a well told sob story asking for money, it really is up to the one donating to pause, use common sense and not donate to just anyone with it's hand out.

Sure, it is illegal, but the consequences, that some are out some donated money, that is very low in the large load of work police, the courts and those in charge have to handle.

Sorry, but I guess I wasn't clear --

The authorities are VERY INTERESTED in the financial fraud aspect -- much easier to pursue defrauding donors / tax fraud / etc. than putting in the effort to prosecute for abuse / neglect. When people are soliciting donations via the internet - 99% of the time it's via PayPal; so all of the "evidence" is in one place.

HydroPHILE
Oct. 4, 2012, 10:22 AM
Sorry, but I guess I wasn't clear --

The authorities are VERY INTERESTED in the financial fraud aspect -- much easier to pursue defrauding donors / tax fraud / etc. than putting in the effort to prosecute for abuse / neglect. When people are soliciting donations via the internet - 99% of the time it's via PayPal; so all of the "evidence" is in one place.

And that's why gangsters in the 20s and 30s were arrested for tax fraud/financial fraud versus any of their other crimes. Tax fraud, etc. has an easy-to-establish paper trail.

MRomanello
Oct. 16, 2012, 06:50 PM
I started to read these postings to see why a horse rescue might close. As I read I started to get a bit angry reading all these things that these people have done. I could not believe what I was reading. At one point JHORNE88 wrote that if anyone wanted to buy hay to to call Farm City and talk to the owne Chrisr. I did so I called. Chris is not the owner. He is the son of the owner. He makes delivers. This horse rescue does not do business with them and the gentlemen who answered the phone said he did not know of them but he was aware of a woman named Jessica Horne. He told me about her horses and the condition of them.
I could not sleep that night.
I found many things disturbing in this thread. It reminded me of high school with people ganging up on a rumour that one of the kids started spreading. I started looking into the names and people.
I will tell you that the people who are responsible for this thread are very lucky that this slander was not made against me. That being said, many things are true but most were not.
JHorne88 and MRomanelloe are friends. If they were not before these people moved thier own horses they are now.
The pictures of these dying horses were not horses who died from starvation. "Bleeding out: is caused by being poisioned.
A Vet and other professionals are not going to risk thier professional careers and financial stability by standing up and lying for someone they are not related to. By stating that you ave slandered them and by rights they should be coming after you.
They have been investigated numerous times. The male who worked for OC was notallowed to be involved in any of these. He was not let go for any reason having to due with the horse rescue.
The fed for the horses was locked in the trailer because there was no feed room for them at JHORNE88's property.
MRomanello adopted a connemerra pony not a mustang. If she thinks she has one...well either she does not know horses or she as gotten rid of this one and got another some other place.

I am asking that if JHORNE88 or MRomanello are sure of all that thye have posted, tat they go to the TV station and get them involved. Go after the VET. Get the authorities to ask for feed bills and records of horses health.

I have a very bitter taste in my mouth for people who bad mouth others but do not have the stones to go and take care of the animals in question. Go to the people and ask to be able to feed them when they are unable to fed them. Water them. You say you are a vet tech. I can only assume a small animal tech because if you were a large animal ou would have called in favors or gone to your own boss or former boss or vet and get the help you need. My opinion is that you and these people do not gel and because of that you have taken it upon yourself to let the world know what you say you have found. (date stamoed pictures are the best).

A bit of housekeeping. My comments are made by what I have been able to get from talkign to various people. JHORNE88 started me thinking to do this in her thread of calling the feed store. What was told to me was heresay of course and must be treated as such. When you rented this land you must have done a lease or some other type of paperwork to protect yourself and keep records for your taxes (you are claiming this rental income on your taxes I am assuming...lol). When you do that any other expenses can be claimed if you can document them. Just be sure to keep your records straight as it is a bear to straighten up at a later date.

Stephanie Hanchett has nothing to do with the Florida Draft Horse Rescue. To add them to this link is a fine line. She also has nothing to do with GG from what I can find out in my research.

I ask that all of you reading this thread take all comments including mine with a grain of salt. Sometimes when feelings get hurt people get angry and feel they have no other recourse but to lash out and try to hurt those who have hurt them. We all have done it to some extent at one time or another. On a public forum it can cause unrepairable harm. I am sure each of these woman involved felt they were acting in the best interests of the animals when the best interest would be to try to take care of the anmals until the authorities could act. After all, it is the horses that matter, not the name calling and mud slinging.


This is quite entertaining because obviously you are involved in some way. The horses weren't poisoned and no vet was involved. The vet that was claimed to have been involved by Leslie and AC had no idea and was PISSED. He was also put on the board WITHOUT his knowledge. Second person put on the board without the person's knowledge.

I just met Jesse through this because she was FLOORED at the fact that Leslie was not caring for her horses AGAIN. This is what she does. Leslie floats from place to place and doesn't care for her animals. Never will. It's upsetting. It'll never change. Leslie is about herself, not her animals. The fact that you stand up for her is absolutely SICKENING.

My horse, which his the same horse I got from Leslie, after talking to other professionals and someone who knew Libby for a while said that Libby was a mustang/Connemara. Not a full Connemara. So nice try for trying to aim low...it's entertaining. I love my horse. Would never get rid of her for anything. It was funny that Leslie said she would do a routine check on her, NOPE! Never did. Wouldn't have minded though. All 5 of my horses look beautiful and wicked healthy. Spoiled rotten. One of which is a draft. Never had a problem like Leslie claimed to have with hers. Any horse that left her property underweight gained weight beautifully. Any horse that went to her property at a healthy weight, lost weight. Sooo, explain that one?

It's disheartening to hear people believe someone who is an incredible manipulator. Someone who can look at these photos or knows what Leslie has done and CONTINUE to support her, has to be an idiot...that's just my opinion. But ignorance is bliss. She had slandered my name up and down this area with really stupid lies, I really don't care. This is about the horses and what they need and the ones who have been to hell and back or the ones that weren't so lucky to come back. This is about the horses that deserve a family who love them and would do anything for them, instead of wondering if they were going to eat that day. When is it ok to throw ONE (1) flake of hay PER RESCUE HORSE one night because you didn't feel like feeling? (That has happened multiple times) There were blind horses in that paddock. they didn't get to eat that night. So how is any of this ok? But you just keep looking the other way. I'm going to pray to God that you aren't in the rescue world, so I don't have to worry about the animals who are in the same bad situation getting looked over because you feel like being ignorant.

Jhorne89
Oct. 27, 2012, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE=maxismomma;6586109]I started to read these postings to see why a horse rescue might close. As I read I started to get a bit angry reading all these things that these people have done. I could not believe what I was reading. At one point JHORNE88 wrote that if anyone wanted to buy hay to to call Farm City and talk to the owne Chrisr. I did so I called. Chris is not the owner. He is the son of the owner. He makes delivers. This horse rescue does not do business with them and the gentlemen who answered the phone said he did not know of them but he was aware of a woman named Jessica Horne. He told me about her horses and the condition of them.
I could not sleep that night.
I found many things disturbing in this thread. It reminded me of high school with people ganging up on a rumour that one of the kids started spreading. I started looking into the names and people.
I will tell you that the people who are responsible for this thread are very lucky that this slander was not made against me. That being said, many things are true but most were not.
JHorne88 and MRomanelloe are friends. If they were not before these people moved thier own horses they are now.
The pictures of these dying horses were not horses who died from starvation. "Bleeding out: is caused by being poisioined.
A Vet and other professionals are not going to risk thier professional careers and financial stability by standing up and lying for someone they are not related to. By stating that you ave slandered them and by rights they should be coming after you.
They have been investigated numerous times. The male who worked for OC was notallowed to be involved in any of these. He was not let go for any reason having to due with the horse rescue.
The fed for the horses was locked in the trailer because there was no feed room for them at JHORNE88's property.
MRomanello adopted a connemerra pony not a mustang. If she thinks she has one...well either she does not know horses or she as gotten rid of this one and got another some other place.

I am asking that if JHORNE88 or MRomanello are sure of all that thye have posted, tat they go to the TV station and get them involved. Go after the VET. Get the authorities to ask for feed bills and records of horses health.

I have a very bitter taste in my mouth for people who bad mouth others but do not have the stones to go and take care of the animals in question. Go to the people and ask to be able to feed them when they are unable to fed them. Water them. You say you are a vet tech. I can only assume a small animal tech because if you were a large animal ou would have called in favors or gone to your own boss or former boss or vet and get the help you need. My opinion is that you and these people do not gel and because of that you have taken it upon yourself to let the world know what you say you have found. (date stamoed pictures are the best).

A bit of housekeeping. My comments are made by what I have been able to get from talkign to various people. JHORNE88 started me thinking to do this in her thread of calling the feed store. What was told to me was heresay of course and must be treated as such. When you rented this land you must have done a lease or some other type of paperwork to protect yourself and keep records for your taxes (you are claiming this rental income on your taxes I am assuming...lol). When you do that any other expenses can be claimed if you can document them. Just be sure to keep your records straight as it is a bear to straighten up at a later date.

Stephanie Hanchett has nothing to do with the Florida Draft Horse Rescue. To add them to this link is a fine line. She also has nothing to do with GG from what I can find out in my research.

I ask that all of you reading this thread take all comments including mine with a grain of salt. Sometimes when feelings get hurt people get angry and feel they have no other recourse but to lash out and try to hurt those who have hurt them. We all have done it to some extent at one time or another. On a public forum it can cause unrepairable harm. I am sure each of these woman involved felt they were acting in the best interests of the animals when the best interest would be to try to take care of the anmals until the authorities could act. After all, it is the horses that matter, not the name calling and mud slinging.[/QUOTE

Strange, cause when Chris was out here delivering a roll of hay to my other boarders today and I asked him about having a phone call he knew nothing about what I was taking about. He's at my property every week btw. And I will definitely take the advice of contacting the local news, I'm sure it will help find them. And as far as renting this property? It has been owned free and clear since 1967, funny though, only somebody that thinks they know that I "rent" would make a comment like that.. Maybe you should PM me and I'll give you my phone number so we can chat. I'm not hiding behind a computer screen. And the "condition of my horses"? Lol, you're absolutely right, they are obese and we really need to work on slimming them down. Ill post pictures of my horses. And how would you know there is no area for them to store feed on the property? Strange, you seem to know a lot more than I have personally typed, maybe you should come to my house since you know do much about it and then we can really chat, or better yet, give me your address, a lot of peiplr are looking for it ;)

Jhorne89
Oct. 27, 2012, 11:03 AM
And also strange, if you called farm city to buy hay for the horses, why didn't you end up buying the hay? Because you state they bad mouthed me? Odd, since I've been a customer of theirs for over 10 years. Another funny thing, you talk about me being a vet tech and how it must have been for small animals because my boss or "former boss" could/should have offered help. Sounds like something I told mike and Leslie, that I was a small animal tech. Funny thing that I forgot to mention to them that "you" forgot to post, that every vet I have ever worked for does work on large animals as well and many times have done me favors with horses, what a shock that you didn't know that since you seem to know everything else about me..

This is just hilarious after my conversation with Chris this morning. He also mentioned nobody ever called to purchase hay..

Just to amuse myself, here are some very recent pictures of my horses so all can see their horrible condition

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/jeaime/photo-17.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/jeaime/photo-20.jpg

Will have to run outside and get pictures of my gelding. Shall I post pictures of the other boarder horses so all can see that they are fat and happy as well?

Jhorne89
Oct. 28, 2012, 10:09 AM
Another thought, did I ever write my first name on here...? I think not. Starting to smell fishier and fishier!

Clinton7557
Oct. 28, 2012, 12:15 PM
First of all, let me intoduce myself as Officially the newbie poster on here. My name is Clinton, I'm Jhorne88 husband. I'm very familiar with the likes of Mike Davis and "Leslie Stoops" the couple who operate the so called " Florida Draft Horse Rescue " I can assure the details of my wife's posts are 100% accurate and true. I can assure you that " Maxismomma" is in fact "Leslie Stoops" (aka Leslie Freas, Leslie Stanley, Leslie Davis, or whatever alias you're going by at the moment) you can feel free to direct your questions and concerns about the non registered not for profit organization they operate to her personally through that screen name. I'm sure her answers will not affiliate their operation in any wrong doing. They are in fact under investigation again, the deputy who came here again on Saturday morning on the 27th of October, assured me this is not his first go around with the draft horse rescue. He would like any information on them, most importantly their whereabouts, if anyone has any info on the location of the horses, please contact Deputy First Class, Ben Kent of the Orange County Sheriff's Department. He is in the Special Operations & investigations Division, Agricultural Crimes Unit. He can be contacted @ 407-836-4357 or his cell @ 321-229-9453. His email is also available @ William.kent@ocfl.net This is a horrible thing when someone becomes exposed to their wrong doings and try's to make the accuser look like the villain. "Maxismomma" aka "Leslie Stoops", I can assure you my taxes are in order as well as most people who are wealthy tend to abide by our governments policy's on taxes. If that's all you have on me or my family, please dig deeper and try harder. I told you when you left, you had finally met your match. I have the financial means to make sure due justice unfolds in this matter. You are an animal abuser. You have neglected your animals. You are a superb manipulator. But you never had me fooled, hence the reasoning I asked you to leave in less than five weeks time of being here.
To all the people on this post, I didn't come here to vent about these horrible people. I'm handling these matters legally and take what they have done seriously. If I felt anything was slander against them I wouldn't be so openly forthright in exposing them. Please, if you know where they have gone to after leaving my property, inform the Sheriffs office contact listed above. They have asked me to assist in finding their whereabouts. My attorneys office would also like to locate them so they can be served with legal documents. That's no ones responsibility but my own. But what is everyone's responsibility? To assist the Sheriffs Department in locating them.
I honestly apologize to anyone reading these post who have been offended or misunderstood any matters discussed. The Florida Draft Horse Rescue is deeper in horse drama then can even be explained in words. Justice will be served. This I can promise.