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View Full Version : Badger family in my pasture, wtd?



Horseymama
Jul. 23, 2012, 11:56 PM
Yikes, I thought the sage rats were annoying! These things are huge, they look like 30+ pounds each and I have heard they are vicious and diseased. And they make giant holes! How do I get rid of them, shoot them? What kind of gun is that going to take? (I won't actually shoot them myself, but my farm hand could). Any other humane way to get rid of them? I'm a little nervous to get anywhere near the main hole!

Alagirl
Jul. 24, 2012, 12:05 AM
Contact a wildlife guy in your area.
Badgers certainly have a nasty temper, not sure if they carry anything though, but you would not want to get up close and personal with one.

Hippolyta
Jul. 24, 2012, 12:06 AM
are you in North America or UK?

Bagleton
Jul. 24, 2012, 12:29 AM
Contact your local DNR, If your DNR cannot come out and remove the animals contact a legitimate pest control because many states require permits to move living animals. the best way to remove them is with live traps.

Badgers will attack if Provoked.They are also INCREDIBLY fast. My grandparents had one with a den by their garage, and made itself known when it chased my grandpa up to the front door. Shooting them would probably be a challenge but if you did manage to kill the entire family fill in all the hunting holes and dens, and do badger prevention because if one family moves out another family will probably move in. You must have something attracting them, in my grandparents case it was a bird feeder that the squirrels used. They like rodents, insects and Little mammals.

Bagleton
Jul. 24, 2012, 12:35 AM
Also if you have cats or dogs outside be very watchful of them until the badgers are removed. Large badgers can kill coyotes and wolves. These are not friendly animals.

sk_pacer
Jul. 24, 2012, 02:06 AM
Badgers are indeed nasty critters. One more thing to remember - you can bust a tractor or truck axle in a badger hole, think what it can do to your horses' legs, or yours for that matter. You can take one out with a .22 but a larger caliber, high power rifle makes the job easier.

Frizzle
Jul. 24, 2012, 02:40 AM
Does it look anything like this -- http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/badgers ?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

Bluey
Jul. 24, 2012, 02:48 AM
Be very careful, badgers are very mean and cranky on principle.

I have heard stories about a cowboy and his horse walking by a hole, not realizing it was there and the badger coming out, grabbing and shredding the horse's leg in seconds.

I was bulldozing a road and the dozer blade picked out a badger from a hole.
That badger grabbed the edge of the steel dozer blade and scratched the steel, leaving marks on it.
I was glad it decided to move on, not come up the machine to visit with me up there.

We leave them alone, unless they are making holes in a dam.
Badgers are not that plentiful here, kind of solitary.
I am surprised they are staying around human dwellings.
They don't do that around here, too much going on I guess?

NoDQhere
Jul. 24, 2012, 09:44 AM
I disagree that a Badger will attack without a lot of provocation. They just want to be left alone. We have them and many times I have gotten very close, not on purpose, and they will try to avoid you if at all possible. They will snarl and growl to warn, which certainly got my attention!! Just a few days ago I came upon a young one out in the open and I tried to get a picture of, but he/she wanted nothing to do with me.

I leave them alone. As an aside, I think the whole "horses will step in a badger hole and break a leg" is an old wives tale. We always have a few badger/fox holes in the fields. The horses will run around like lunatics and not step in a hole. I think the one thing horses are pretty good at is knowing where their feet are.

Belg
Jul. 24, 2012, 09:53 AM
Honey badger don't care... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg ((Warning: Much profanity))

Can I recommend "rifle from safe distance" for 300?

Belg
Jul. 24, 2012, 09:54 AM
I think the one thing horses are pretty good at is knowing where their feet are.

I wish they were a bit better at knowing where MY feet are... :=)

Yes, of course I know they're my responsibility... :)

Bluey
Jul. 24, 2012, 09:58 AM
I disagree that a Badger will attack without a lot of provocation. They just want to be left alone. We have them and many times I have gotten very close, not on purpose, and they will try to avoid you if at all possible. They will snarl and growl to warn, which certainly got my attention!! Just a few days ago I came upon a young one out in the open and I tried to get a picture of, but he/she wanted nothing to do with me.

I leave them alone. As an aside, I think the whole "horses will step in a badger hole and break a leg" is an old wives tale. We always have a few badger/fox holes in the fields. The horses will run around like lunatics and not step in a hole. I think the one thing horses are pretty good at is knowing where their feet are.

While you are right that badgers don't go out of their way to attack, what sets them off may be something you didn't know was going to set them off, like almost stepping on the shallow hole they were resting in.

I would definitely not bother one at all, they are lightning fast and once set off, very over the top aggressive, they meant to do harm.

I would want to discourage them from staying around dwellings.

Curb Appeal
Jul. 24, 2012, 10:21 AM
Does it look anything like this -- http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/badgers ?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

That was the first thing to pop into my head when I saw the title of this thread. :lol:

Nlevie
Jul. 24, 2012, 12:38 PM
We also have them in our pasture. It's away and over a hill from our house and barn, so we never see them. I understand they're pretty much nocturnal. My husband has spent a lot of time out there with a gun hoping to see one, but nada. . . the only time was when he walking with our dogs and one of them stuck their head into a hole and as they were walking some distance away he turned around and saw it sitting up watching them ? We also have lots of ground squirels, which is what they eat and you find their big holes near all the little gs holes. So we go out routinely and fill all the holes we can, but they keep coming back. I have also heard they need to be live-trapped so that may be our next attempt to get rid of them.

goodhors
Jul. 24, 2012, 12:46 PM
Well Badgers ARE RELATED to the WORST of the Weasel family, the Wolverines!! I don't know ANY of the Weasel family that are not great fighters, totally fearless in attack and don't back down no matter what they face!

My friend had one Badger move into her garden, started eating the tame barn kittens out in the yard. It was starting to tunnel around, make itself at home, real close to the house. She couldn't get a clear shot at it near the wooded fenceline or unarmed when it was running across the grass. They will literally dig a hole under themselves and sink away if cornered, if they can't escape you or damage you.

Her dog managed to catch the Badger between holes and there was a FIGHT one night. Friend said it sounded horrible, took a while, she couldn't figure what dog had caught. Never thought of the Badger. Eventually the dog came up to the door. Dog had taken a whooping, but there was nothing left of the Badger larger than your hand. Fur and pieces all over the yard. She had to treat the dog's cuts to make sure there was no infection from bites or claws. Dog did end up with one scar line on her head. No eye damage or ripped ears.

Badgers are hard to fight, they have way oversized skin, can turn around 180 degrees when grabbed and HELD up, to attack facing you!! Getting hold of them just means you are REALLY CLOSE when they turn to bite!! All four feet have BIG, SHARP, digging claws for tearing things up. Dog was a Rhodesian Ridgeback female, with a firm sense of WHO owned THIS PLACE and the Badger didn't belong there.

She is the only dog I ever heard of winning a fight with a Badger by herself. Friend figured dog just shook the Badger to death while taking pieces out of the hide. If she lost her grip, hide came loose, she would grab the animal again to keep up the shaking. That was the dog's usual method, in removing other kinds of varmints she found. She could shake something faster than you could see it. Good method, keeps the varmint stunned and prevents a lot of clawing. Big jaws, strong neck and heavily muscled, gave her a LOT of power. This was a good sized Badger, probably about maximum size.

At that time, this was the ONLY Badger anyone had heard of in our area for years. Very uncommon locally, though not a rare animal in the state. Probably just not a lot of suitable habitat with all the farming there. I hope to NEVER meet one not caged.

OP should call the DNR as suggested, see what they can tell her or help her in removing it. You don't want to just shoot it, THEN find out they are protected so you get fined. Badgers take special cages to trap, because they are SO STRONG, they will break most lesser traps. Like their Wolverine relatives, they may not weigh much in total, but you want to multiply every pound by 100, because they have that much power and fury. They usually are solitary unless she has babies. A new litter would be rather too late in this season for having. Not enough growth time before winter.

Calvincrowe
Jul. 24, 2012, 01:00 PM
OP-- you definitely need to get more information before you go blasting a critter on your land! Call Fish/Wildlife or whatever it is called in your area. A quick Google search revealed that really, they aren't a threat to your livestock or even pets. They can be infected with rabies....but in the grand scheme of things, they are about as low on the "transmission" list as humans are. They eat rodents and insects, occasionally carrion, too.

betsyk
Jul. 24, 2012, 01:24 PM
We had a badger family at our barn this spring, witnessed by a few different people, holes in several really bad locations (bad for us, at least!). They're protected around here, so we ended up getting the DNR guy to come out and look at the holes to give advice. By the time he came, they had moved on, and haven't returned. Kind of cool to think we had actual, real, native wildlife in an area that's getting increasingly built up, not so cool to think of them getting into it with the boarders' small dogs out for a trail ride. According to the guy who was charged with filling in the holes, they were BIG and DEEP.

Horseymama
Jul. 24, 2012, 03:08 PM
Well Badgers ARE RELATED to the WORST of the Weasel family, the Wolverines!! I don't know ANY of the Weasel family that are not great fighters, totally fearless in attack and don't back down no matter what they face!

My friend had one Badger move into her garden, started eating the tame barn kittens out in the yard. It was starting to tunnel around, make itself at home, real close to the house. She couldn't get a clear shot at it near the wooded fenceline or unarmed when it was running across the grass. They will literally dig a hole under themselves and sink away if cornered, if they can't escape you or damage you.

Her dog managed to catch the Badger between holes and there was a FIGHT one night. Friend said it sounded horrible, took a while, she couldn't figure what dog had caught. Never thought of the Badger. Eventually the dog came up to the door. Dog had taken a whooping, but there was nothing left of the Badger larger than your hand. Fur and pieces all over the yard. She had to treat the dog's cuts to make sure there was no infection from bites or claws. Dog did end up with one scar line on her head. No eye damage or ripped ears.

Badgers are hard to fight, they have way oversized skin, can turn around 180 degrees when grabbed and HELD up, to attack facing you!! Getting hold of them just means you are REALLY CLOSE when they turn to bite!! All four feet have BIG, SHARP, digging claws for tearing things up. Dog was a Rhodesian Ridgeback female, with a firm sense of WHO owned THIS PLACE and the Badger didn't belong there.

She is the only dog I ever heard of winning a fight with a Badger by herself. Friend figured dog just shook the Badger to death while taking pieces out of the hide. If she lost her grip, hide came loose, she would grab the animal again to keep up the shaking. That was the dog's usual method, in removing other kinds of varmints she found. She could shake something faster than you could see it. Good method, keeps the varmint stunned and prevents a lot of clawing. Big jaws, strong neck and heavily muscled, gave her a LOT of power. This was a good sized Badger, probably about maximum size.

At that time, this was the ONLY Badger anyone had heard of in our area for years. Very uncommon locally, though not a rare animal in the state. Probably just not a lot of suitable habitat with all the farming there. I hope to NEVER meet one not caged.

OP should call the DNR as suggested, see what they can tell her or help her in removing it. You don't want to just shoot it, THEN find out they are protected so you get fined. Badgers take special cages to trap, because they are SO STRONG, they will break most lesser traps. Like their Wolverine relatives, they may not weigh much in total, but you want to multiply every pound by 100, because they have that much power and fury. They usually are solitary unless she has babies. A new litter would be rather too late in this season for having. Not enough growth time before winter.

Wow, what a story! That sounds like one heck of a dog! I have two Jack Russells who I'm sure think they could kill them but they would be in deep doo-doo with 5!. They are luckily far from my house where my Jacks hang out.

I did call Fish and Wildlife, they are not protected in my area, (Oregon) and they just recommended I call pest control, who will come out and shoot them. It's a bummer, because they are large, interesting animals, but I can't risk having them around my horses.

On the up-side, they did totally get rid of my sage-rat problem! :)

Calvincrowe
Jul. 24, 2012, 04:18 PM
But...what is the risk around your horses?? If your land is large enough, I'd think that both badgers and horses could happily coexist. Seriously, the "fell in a hole and broke a leg" story is pretty much bunk---I'm betting your horses know exactly where that badger sett is ( a sett is a badger den/their holes) and give if fairly wide berth.

Rabies is almost non-existent in Oregon, and certainly not a risk factor here.

Can you simply coexist?

starrunner
Jul. 24, 2012, 04:33 PM
Rabies is almost non-existent in Oregon, and certainly not a risk factor here.



Rabies may typically be "non-existent", but there were several confirmed cases in southern Oregon since 2010.

I would try and find a way to have someone shoot it or move it on. I don't think they are an animal easy to co-exist with.

Calvincrowe
Jul. 24, 2012, 06:41 PM
Yes, every year, there are a few cases of rabies confirmed in wild animals--I haven't heard of a confirmed case in a pet or livestock in years. I guess my point is that badgers are a very poor vector for rabies transmission, and if the OP were concerned she could have her horses vaccinated against it (I've never met a vet who includes rabies in their recommended vaxes here!).

I just hate to see these "oh I have _________ in my pasture/lawn/barn and it must die!" threads. Call me a bleeding heart Buddhist or whatever, but I believe in trying to coexist with wildlife.

danceronice
Jul. 24, 2012, 07:03 PM
My parents have no problem taking out raccoons and possums have a standing date with death if they wander into a livetrap or just within easy range of the .22 (my old horse died from EPM) but the badgers we all just ignore. They den at the far end of our hay field and they do not go out of their way to get near humans or horses or dogs. Heck, Mom still talks about the badger who took up residence in the Arboretum at U-Mich back in the '60s when she was going there. He had a den in a hillside, and would occasionally stick his head out and snarl, but like most animals they're not going to come and charge you without you provoking them. If it's an active badger den, the horses aren't going to go near it (and are in more danger from the stupid ground squirrel holes) and as long as you give it a berth and keep dogs from going looking for trouble, they'll pretty much ignore you.

leaf
Jul. 24, 2012, 07:33 PM
From another bleeding heart buddhist, explore ways to co-exist if possible.
We move into rural or wild areas and then seem to think it's our duty to go in guns-a-blazing to erradicate all that are "pests" to us. And those pests are the natural tenants who have lived there for eons in a finely balanced fashion. Whose is the pest?

Yeah, but sometimes you got to do what you got to do. I understand that from a rural perspective. Still, it's our responsiblity to educate ourselves in the ways of our natural neighbors, and find ways to co-exist, if possible.

Am I preaching to the choir?
Sermon's over.

alabama
Jul. 24, 2012, 09:52 PM
My vet recommends rabies shots - but I think we've had a few cases in equines over the past years here. I also have a bazillion racoons around my place so it makes me feel better to vac for it. We don't have any badgers, though. Those things look seriously scary on TV. Y'all can keep them. LOL!

JackieBlue
Jul. 24, 2012, 10:52 PM
The simple fact is that badgers like to survive, like any animal. And, like any animal, they know that humans are bad news. They are unlikely to transmit rabies and vaccines for horses are readily available. Here in VA, we all vaccinate our horses (and everything else).
If you just can't stomach badgers on your property, that's one thing, but to use the "threat of rabies" as an excuse to exterminate isn't fair. In fact, badgers will keep many nuisance pests away and, as others have said, the horses are well aware of where not to step.

Foxtrot's
Jul. 24, 2012, 11:06 PM
Please don't shot them. I hope he wanders off on his own accord, or you find a way of relocting him. We have a diminishing wild life population everywhere where there is development.

There is a problem with TB in badgers in the UK and they are trying to find a vaccine (oral to be put in food) because if they are near cattle herds there is the possibility of them transmitting the TB t the cattle.

starrunner
Jul. 24, 2012, 11:11 PM
I think it depends on where the badger is on the property.

Far off in a hay field is different than living in the corner of a pasture a couple hundred yards from the house.

Personally, my Labrador is retarded and would be badger bait in a few minutes. He isn't smart enough to not poke his face in a hole.

Given the choice between badger or dumb Labrador, I would say Labrador.

So let me correct my position and say, depends on the location of the critter and the location of your critters.

As for rabies in southern Oregon, perhaps just because I have family in the area and know that foxes, coyotes, and a goat have been tested positive (along with the typical bats), I just kind of think that maybe a badger might be similar enough in range as a fox to be affected. I don't have enough of a background to understand why the foxes in that area are affected. ;) I do know there they recommend horses being vaccinated.

I did pull up a couple badger websites that suggest using bright, high intensity lights at night may discourage badgers from staying around a barnyard and killing poultry. Possibly something. Also suggested eradicating small mammals they are hunting. So I guess, depending on badger's location, something to think about. But you said the rodents seem to be decreasing, so maybe they will move on?

Horseymama
Jul. 24, 2012, 11:33 PM
Number one, there is not one badger, there are four.

The pasture is about 10 acres from my house, but is on a flat space of land with no trees, just a loafing shed. It is about 80' x 120'. It is fenced with no climb and a top rail. The badger hole is almost in the dead center, out in the open. I have other square pastures that border 3 sides, about the same size. The fourth side is bordered by a road. It is not a good location for badgers.

I moved the horse out that was there. There is no way for her to co-exist in that space with four 35+ pound animals that are known for being nasty and territorial. But I need the space for her. It is a nice irrigated pasture with good summer grass. Also, there are three other horses in the pastures next door.

I was talking to a woman in town today about the badgers and she told me she had a horse that has a horrible, ugly scar on it's leg from a badger bite! They can obviously be dangerous to horses. Even if they don't carry rabies, they have some crazy teeth and claws!

If ever there were a bleeding heart animal lover, it is me. But I am at the point where I have to choose either badgers or horses. I will call the pest control people and inquire how much it is to humanely trap and re-locate the four badgers, but I am assuming there would be a lot of work and expense for me involved.

Wellspotted
Jul. 24, 2012, 11:56 PM
Please put your horse in next door with the other horses in the other pastures and leave the badgers alone. You have an alternative to that pasture, the badgers don't.

Do you really think the "relocation" people will really relocate them? Maybe to the dump ... and even if they do relocate them to another place, they will be in enemy territory. The wildlife people here tell me that when wild animals are moved from their homes to strange territory, they are the invaders and are in danger from the wild animals who live there.

Please just leave the badgers alone. You really do have a choice. Please make the right one. :)

Wellspotted
Jul. 24, 2012, 11:58 PM
From another bleeding heart buddhist, explore ways to co-exist if possible.
We move into rural or wild areas and then seem to think it's our duty to go in guns-a-blazing to erradicate all that are "pests" to us. And those pests are the natural tenants who have lived there for eons in a finely balanced fashion. Whose is the pest?

Yeah, but sometimes you got to do what you got to do. I understand that from a rural perspective. Still, it's our responsiblity to educate ourselves in the ways of our natural neighbors, and find ways to co-exist, if possible.

Am I preaching to the choir?
Sermon's over.

Choir alto here. And bleeding heart Christian :) I am glad you posted. The "sermon" needs to be repeated as long as it takes for the people to hear.

Griffyn
Jul. 24, 2012, 11:58 PM
Check with your DNR. Round here they are very protected and you cant remove them without permission. And they are fierce, so not for amateur relocation.

Calvincrowe
Jul. 25, 2012, 12:21 AM
So..you have a fairly large acreage, and small pastures/paddocks fenced off in it? Is there an option here to simply leave them alone? They really, really aren't a threat to your horse--sure, you'll hear anecdotal stories about creature X hurt my horse, but 99% of the time, it was no such thing. Could you open this pasture up to another one? Maybe run a hot wire across it to keep horse/badgers separate and still allow horse access to majority of the field?

(I'm actually a bleeding heart Catholic, but Mr. CC calls me a Buddhist because I hate killing anything because it's inconvenient or unnecessary).

Grataan
Jul. 25, 2012, 01:44 AM
Sorry, can't resist-do you have any unwanted children (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158097) you need to dispose of? Perhaps you can get rid of two birds with one stone ;)

Kestrel
Jul. 25, 2012, 01:58 AM
Can I borrow them? I have a Mountain Beaver problem they coud help me with.
http://dirttime.ws/Notebook/Aplodontia.htm

I've tried to get Mr Kestrel to eat a steak an pee in the burrows, but he's afraid the neighbors will call the police :D.

Badger story:

DH used to work as a cowboy on his Mom's ranch in the summers. They had a girl's summer camp there, and leased out grazing to the neighbors. The older campers would spend a night camping out solo, just the girl, her horse, some food, and a sleeping bag. The staff would ride around, keeping an eye on the kids to make sure they were ok. One morning, one of the staffers peeked in on a camper and found her sitting frozen in terror in her sleeping bag as two badgers fought over it. Eventually she wiggled out and they dragged the bag off, still fighting. Quite an event for a city girl.

Herbie19
Jul. 25, 2012, 06:50 AM
That was the first thing to pop into my head when I saw the title of this thread. :lol:

Me too! :lol::lol::lol:

But seriously if anything was digging holes in my horses' pasture I'd shoot it. Dead.

I have a couple of groundhogs that "graze" in one of my pastures when the horses aren't out there. I've kept a close watch on them and they've yet to dig holes--they seem to live in the woods next to the pasture so I'm assuming that's where their den is.

Wellspotted
Jul. 25, 2012, 07:27 PM
So..you have a fairly large acreage, and small pastures/paddocks fenced off in it? Is there an option here to simply leave them alone? They really, really aren't a threat to your horse--sure, you'll hear anecdotal stories about creature X hurt my horse, but 99% of the time, it was no such thing. Could you open this pasture up to another one? Maybe run a hot wire across it to keep horse/badgers separate and still allow horse access to majority of the field?

(I'm actually a bleeding heart Catholic, but Mr. CC calls me a Buddhist because I hate killing anything because it's inconvenient or unnecessary).

Pleased to meet you. ;) I am a bleeding heart Episcopalian and a cat-carrying member of ENAW. :)

paulaedwina
Jul. 25, 2012, 07:53 PM
Mr Badger lives at your house! Cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3Aw2wCCPJs

Paula

Guin
Jul. 25, 2012, 08:22 PM
What about just fencing off their hole? Put up some nonelectic white tape on step-in posts in a 15' square around the hole. That way the horse won't bother the badgers, and the badgers won't worry about getting stepped on when they try to go out.

sunridge1
Jul. 25, 2012, 10:50 PM
^ Well that would be the easy thing. How about LET horses learn about some wildlife. I know they are hot house flowers, blond and couldn't possibly have the intelligence to negotiate around anything native.

If we killed every threatening animal here I'd be in jail. Badgers, wolves, bears, coyotes, fishers, raccoons, deer etc. My horses live with them, disturbed earth and all plus give them a run for their money. ASB's are donkeys in disguise I swear.:yes:

JackieBlue
Jul. 25, 2012, 11:06 PM
Number one, there is not one badger, there are four.

The pasture is about 10 acres from my house, but is on a flat space of land with no trees, just a loafing shed. It is about 80' x 120'. It is fenced with no climb and a top rail. The badger hole is almost in the dead center, out in the open. I have other square pastures that border 3 sides, about the same size. The fourth side is bordered by a road. It is not a good location for badgers.

I moved the horse out that was there. There is no way for her to co-exist in that space with four 35+ pound animals that are known for being nasty and territorial. But I need the space for her. It is a nice irrigated pasture with good summer grass. Also, there are three other horses in the pastures next door.

I was talking to a woman in town today about the badgers and she told me she had a horse that has a horrible, ugly scar on it's leg from a badger bite! They can obviously be dangerous to horses. Even if they don't carry rabies, they have some crazy teeth and claws!

If ever there were a bleeding heart animal lover, it is me. But I am at the point where I have to choose either badgers or horses. I will call the pest control people and inquire how much it is to humanely trap and re-locate the four badgers, but I am assuming there would be a lot of work and expense for me involved.

A story from some lady in town does not indicate that "obviously badgers can be a threat to horses". I swear, if my horse is stupid enough to tangle with a badger, so be it. Horses can leap out if the way of a wind blown leaf in the blink of an eye. Do we honestly believe they're running around stepping on badgers willy-nilly?? A hissing barn cat can back any horse off, but we're convinced that they'll ignore a badger's snarl? C'mon. Please rely on your common sense and make the right decision. The badgers aren't waging war on you or your horses. Why open fire on them?

Calamber
Jul. 26, 2012, 12:07 AM
Please put your horse in next door with the other horses in the other pastures and leave the badgers alone. You have an alternative to that pasture, the badgers don't.

Do you really think the "relocation" people will really relocate them? Maybe to the dump ... and even if they do relocate them to another place, they will be in enemy territory. The wildlife people here tell me that when wild animals are moved from their homes to strange territory, they are the invaders and are in danger from the wild animals who live there.

Please just leave the badgers alone. You really do have a choice. Please make the right one. :)

This is about the most fruity thing I have read on here in a long time, and that is saying something. Move the horses and give the badgers the pasture, now I have about heard everything. I had rabies 4 - 5 years ago in Northern Virginia in a groundhog on my property. I had to fight with every resource that I spoke with from the sheriff's department to animal control to convince them to test this creature because groundhogs just don't have rabies right? This one tested positive, I no longer allowed groundhogs to live on my place at all, and would never hesitate to shoot them or badgers if they decided to set up camp in my farm field, period.

Leave the other theories for the rather, shall we say, reality challenged Disney generation.

Calvincrowe
Jul. 26, 2012, 12:37 AM
Rabies in Oregon is incredibly rare, even among wild animals. No one vaccinates horses for it. Badgers are not a known vector of rabies transmission--they are reclusive, nocturnal animals. Bats are our best carriers out here in the PNW.

As an excuse for killing an animal, rabies is a weak one here. With the size of acreage the OP has indicated, I can't understand why she feels she needs to kill or remove these badgers (which are rare animals here). Simply fence off the area, and leave them be. Jackie Blue's post is a wise one.

Guin
Jul. 26, 2012, 11:16 AM
^ Well that would be the easy thing. How about LET horses learn about some wildlife. I know they are hot house flowers, blond and couldn't possibly have the intelligence to negotiate around anything native.


I'm hardly recommending a walled enclosure with razor wire. Just a visual outline AROUND THE HOLE to give the badgers a little bit of space to look around when they emerge, without the possibility of a horse being right on top of them. :rolleyes: You'll note that most other people are recommending shooting the creatures.

wireweiners
Jul. 26, 2012, 12:49 PM
You say there are 4 of them? According to Wikipedia, American badgers are solitary creatures so if there are 4, it's probably and mother and kits. So this late in the year, the kits are probably close to maturing and finding there own territory. Once that occurs, mama badger may move on as well.

Count me in the don't shoot them, they aren't really hurting anything camp. In 10 acres, with one horse, there is plenty of room for her to graze and avoid the badger family. The put up large amounts of earth around their dens and I believe they have a pretty strong smell as they are kin to skunks. That should be enough to warn your horse away from the den. I've co-existed with an alligator in my small pond for over a year now with no problems. I'm just careful to keep the dogs out of the pond and Wally avoids the horses.

I'm a bleeding heart "doesn't have any particular belief system" myself. I just can't stand the idea of hurting or killing something unnecessarily.

Calamber
Jul. 26, 2012, 04:37 PM
Rabies in Oregon is incredibly rare, even among wild animals. No one vaccinates horses for it. Badgers are not a known vector of rabies transmission--they are reclusive, nocturnal animals. Bats are our best carriers out here in the PNW.

As an excuse for killing an animal, rabies is a weak one here. With the size of acreage the OP has indicated, I can't understand why she feels she needs to kill or remove these badgers (which are rare animals here). Simply fence off the area, and leave them be. Jackie Blue's post is a wise one.

You need to do a little more reading about badgers as vectors, that is what all of the "experts" said about groundhogs too. I do not play games on the basis of emotionally driven, Disneyesque versions of reality. It is not only for the sake of the rabies, the badgers need to live somewhere other than in a horse pasture, fencing it off does not change that they have burrows there and live there. Wild animals constantly change their behavior in order to survive, raccoons, skunks and foxes used to be considered "nocturnal" until they were not, and it was not because they were ill. All I can tell you is that I personally would not let a badger, or any ground burrowing animal take up residence in my pasture, maybe if they bought the land and paid taxes?! I am not in the school of thinking that we are interlopers on their land. The critters are aggressive, I do not understand these soft headed ooo, aren't they just so CUTE, and the live and let live lunacy with either the predator animals or those who create this kind of hazard (burrowing in a farm field, and the aggression) with this kind of thinking we would never have even settled this country, let alone the west.

In the UK they used to have a policy to eliminate all of the badgers because they carried typhus, now they have commissions to deal with the rabies issue amongst the badgers.

Perhaps this is all wasted breath and ideas, but the policy towards wild animals borders and often surpasses the irrational so often it is frightening. I am of the mind that we human beings need to utilize our god given reason a bit more often. Humans are not in competition with the animals, I never saw an animal treat another animal to rid it of disease have you? Let us become more rational and the world will be a much better, safer and less irrational place to live.

Calvincrowe
Jul. 26, 2012, 05:10 PM
It's tuberculosis, Calamber, that badgers carry in the UK (research much?), and there is some dispute about their role in that disease vs. cattle. A 10 second Google search revealed that only bats have been found with rabies in Oregon so far this year, with coyotes and foxes being the other carriers in the last 3 years. In fact, only 11 confirmed cases of rabies in Oregon in 2011. And none were in horses. And..the UK has been free of rabies since 1902. You truly need to research better, my dear.

The PNW is not like the Eastern seaboard when it comes to equine diseases and rabies. In 44 years, here, and 30+ of horse ownership, I've never felt the need to vax for rabies in my horses, nor has it been recommended by a vet to do so. We also so not have ground hogs/squirrels in my area (well, most of Western WA/OR really), so you can rest easy there, too.

Obviously, you are not going to agree with anything I have to say. We do not share a similar world view in regard to wildlife and humans interacting. I'll be sure to stay out of your fields.

JackieBlue
Jul. 26, 2012, 07:26 PM
Calamber, I laughed out loud when I read, "the critters are aggressive." Someone's aggressive alright. :lol:
Whether you buy into it or not, land ownership is a strictly human idea. It's a severe form of territorialism.
I'm probably wasting my breath, but having respect for life has nothing to do with Disney or cuteness.

Foxtrot's
Jul. 26, 2012, 10:46 PM
In my earlier post I said tht in UK they worry that TB can be transmitted to cattle. Yet they still work and study to try to find a way of saving badgers without killing them all.

Can we form a clique of people who hate to rush to kill wildlife, even if we are Disney-ish.

As for my horses, I'm glad every time they get a chance to encounter or at least smell a wild animal. Where we ride up country there are a lot of deer and bear and who knows what wanders past them at night to get to the creek. It makes them much safer to ride.

Wellspotted
Jul. 26, 2012, 10:48 PM
It's tuberculosis, Calamber, that badgers carry in the UK (research much?), and there is some dispute about their role in that disease vs. cattle. A 10 second Google search revealed that only bats have been found with rabies in Oregon so far this year, with coyotes and foxes being the other carriers in the last 3 years. In fact, only 11 confirmed cases of rabies in Oregon in 2011. And none were in horses. And..the UK has been free of rabies since 1902. You truly need to research better, my dear.

The PNW is not like the Eastern seaboard when it comes to equine diseases and rabies. In 44 years, here, and 30+ of horse ownership, I've never felt the need to vax for rabies in my horses, nor has it been recommended by a vet to do so. We also so not have ground hogs/squirrels in my area (well, most of Western WA/OR really), so you can rest easy there, too.

Obviously, you are not going to agree with anything I have to say. We do not share a similar world view in regard to wildlife and humans interacting. I'll be sure to stay out of your fields.

I'll stay out with you, Calvincrowe! :yes:

Wellspotted
Jul. 26, 2012, 10:55 PM
In my earlier post I said tht in UK they worry that TB can be transmitted to cattle. Yet they still work and study to try to find a way of saving badgers without killing them all.

Can we form a clique of people who hate to rush to kill wildlife, even if we are Disney-ish.

As for my horses, I'm glad every time they get a chance to encounter or at least smell a wild animal. Where we ride up country there are a lot of deer and bear and who knows what wanders past them at night to get to the creek. It makes them much safer to ride.

Cliique is in formation, Foxtrot's. Check out my brand new signature line! (And let me know if I didn't word it right!) :yes:

Calvincrowe
Jul. 26, 2012, 10:59 PM
Thanks, Wellspotted! We should indeed form the "Live and Let Live" Clique. I just don't get the impulse to slaughter every creature that is inconvenient, could pose a remote threat and the like. I think that some folks are quite uncomfortable knowing that humans actually are ON the food chain, not necessarily on TOP of it!:lol:

Not that a badger or chipmunk or possum is going to do us in. After all, the deadliest animal on earth is the mosquito!;) They've certainly been the killer of more humans than any other creature, including other humans.

Aven
Jul. 26, 2012, 10:59 PM
She is the only dog I ever heard of winning a fight with a Badger by herself.


Not that JRTs are supposed to kill, they are bay dogs, not kill dogs. Badgers are official quarry for JRTs (along with fox, coon, and ground hogs) Not your typical quarry for most terriers. But if you have a badger problem and cant' coexist, you could see if you have any working terriers and their people in your area. The dogs are used to bolt or keep the quarry busy so the hunter can take care of them.

Bluey
Jul. 26, 2012, 11:09 PM
Not that JRTs are supposed to kill, they are bay dogs, not kill dogs. Badgers are official quarry for JRTs (along with fox, coon, and ground hogs) Not your typical quarry for most terriers. But if you have a badger problem and cant' coexist, you could see if you have any working terriers and their people in your area. The dogs are used to bolt or keep the quarry busy so the hunter can take care of them.

I didn't think so, terriers are supposed to kill their prey.
They even had contest about who killed the most rats/mice in so many minutes where JRT were very good at it.
Sure, if the prey is very large, they will flush them from holes and the hunters can dispatch them, but not for lack of trying to kill from the terriers.;)

Foxtrot's
Jul. 26, 2012, 11:12 PM
Wellspotted - let's try Calvin's "Don't Rush to kill Wildlife" - more succinct.

I get absolutely sick every time the 'Conservation' officers kill a bear that has clashed with people who put out their garbage that attracts the bears. They should change their names to Wildlife Control Officers, not Conservation.

Aven
Jul. 26, 2012, 11:21 PM
I didn't think so, terriers are supposed to kill their prey.
They even had contest about who killed the most rats/mice in so many minutes where JRT were very good at it.
Sure, if the prey is very large, they will flush them from holes and the hunters can dispatch them, but not for lack of trying to kill from the terriers.;)

yes they will kill rats and mice. So will the whippets and cockers that live here :)

But if you want the working style of JRTs they are NOT kill dogs. Now if they find something above ground.. bets are off. In the ground though you don't want a dog latching on to much on the quarry. Even ground hogs can kill dogs underground..

JackieBlue
Jul. 26, 2012, 11:27 PM
Not that JRTs are supposed to kill, they are bay dogs, not kill dogs. Badgers are official quarry for JRTs (along with fox, coon, and ground hogs) Not your typical quarry for most terriers. But if you have a badger problem and cant' coexist, you could see if you have any working terriers and their people in your area. The dogs are used to bolt or keep the quarry busy so the hunter can take care of them.

Dachsunds are purpose-bred badger dogs. In fact, in German their name translates to "badger (dachs) dog (hund)". All the Dachshunds living in the lap of luxury in their designer sweaters must be bored to tears!
And, just for the sake of clarity, Notth American badgers weigh 15 to 20the pounds, depending on gender and time of year. If a badger here in thw US weighs 35 pounds it must have accidently swallowed a brick!

Kestrel
Jul. 27, 2012, 03:50 AM
OP, have you though about using predator urine (probably wolf or cougar) to encourage the badgers to move on? I don't want to kill the mountain beavers that are excavating my property, but if bobcat pee can get them to move over to the other side of the path, I'm game to try it.

And where, do you ask, can you buy cougar urine? Why, at

http://www.predatorpee.com/

or

http://www.thepeemart.com/?gclid=CM-ozK2vubECFQxshwod90QANA

allpurpose
Jul. 27, 2012, 06:30 AM
Thanks, Wellspotted! We should indeed form the "Live and Let Live" Clique. I just don't get the impulse to slaughter every creature that is inconvenient, could pose a remote threat and the like. I think that some folks are quite uncomfortable knowing that humans actually are ON the food chain, not necessarily on TOP of it!:lol:

Not that a badger or chipmunk or possum is going to do us in. After all, the deadliest animal on earth is the mosquito!;) They've certainly been the killer of more humans than any other creature, including other humans.

Ok, I'm calling your bluff. Wasn't it you that started the recent thread about eradicating the large nest of yellow-jackets that was in an inconvenient place at your farm? Just sayin' :cool:

JackieBlue
Jul. 27, 2012, 07:20 AM
Well, that's apples to oranges, really. Yellow jackets are notoriously aggressive, venomous and HAVE been known to cause the death of humans, horses, dogs, cats and many other species. And they tend to have wedll camouflaged, small burrow openings that anyone could have theto misfortune of stepping on.
Not the same situation at all.

Bluey
Jul. 27, 2012, 08:28 AM
Here, we have small ponds that are made with a dam of dirt holding runoff water.
Those are important for the water they hold and the protection they give to the country below the dams.

Any critter found digging into those dams is taken care of promptly, as it cost thousands to repair those dams and what the water does below them, where a little hole started by said critter will destroy the dam quickly.

Be it a coyote, badger, coon or gophers, discouraging them with any predator urine won't help, they just move over and keep digging.
We fill in the holes and generally they move on most times.
If they don't, we shoot them.

I will say, in 40 years, we only had to kill one badger and two coyotes trying to dig into dams that would not move on, so it is not like there is a war against any critter.
It is rare, but important that they don't dig into dams.

There are not that many badgers around here.
In the canyons, they make holes mostly in the sandy draws, which doesn't hurt anything.
In the plains, you see them on the field sides of barditches, also not hurting anything, so rarely anyone bothers them.
If one were to want to make a home by someone's barn or house, yes, they would be disturbed and if it didn't move on, shot.

Now, coons are a different story, those are very destructive and love human activity.
They will get into any barn or house they can, making big holes in walls and on the roof.
If you have ever seen a tackroom where coons made a hole in the wall or door and spent a night playing around in there, you would also not want to keep any cute wildlife of the masked bandit type around.:eek:
That is not even counting the very real rabies threat they are here.

Then, they are many coons around, as are coyotes.
Eliminating some from around barns and houses won't make a dent in their populations and it keeps your own critters and possessions safer.

Badgers, mountain lions, bobcats, lynx, those species generally don't become a pest species, although some individuals can be a problem.
We have a resident bobcat that keeps to itself, other than not letting any domestic cat become a resident here, he kills them within a day or two they show up.
We just don't have barn cats.

NoDQhere
Jul. 27, 2012, 08:53 AM
We did have a young Badger attempt to take up residence in a drainage very near the barn. Because we have cats and dogs, I really didn't want him "that" close. So I parked the very noisy diesel pickup over the culvert and left it running for awhile. Mr. Badger decided to seek out a quieter home.

I've lived on a farm all my life and am very much "live and let live" unless an animal is a serious threat. Killing is absolutely the last resort on this farm. I don't agree that it is OK to kill it just because YOU are afraid of it or it annoys YOU. We find that the horses, dogs, cats and even the chickens co-exist with the wildlife pretty amicably.

Calvincrowe
Jul. 27, 2012, 10:01 AM
I tried to leave the bald faced hornets alone, but they are too aggressive and the nest was in in our chicken yard. And...really? Hornets are not badgers! Had I been attacked and "bitten" by a badger, then surely for our safety, the animal would be captured or killed (DNR or Fish/Wildlife would have due to possible rabies) since badgers are not aggressive to humans.

Now, if you come to my house, you'll need to be okay with paper wasps, because we have a bazillion of their wee houses under our eaves and under our patio cover. We rub along nicely, and I don't feel the need to eradicate them just because they might could sting me or the dogs. See-Live and Let Live!:)

Ask my DH about my swerving to miss frogs and you'll get his massive eye roll and deep sigh about my personal "no kill" philosophy.

I'm no vegetarian, and understand very well where meat comes from--I have met and cuddled with my last two pigs and lambs that have graced my freezer. But, hey, whacking a nuisance animal without trying to move them along is a different kettle of fish.

And Bluey-- I hear you--we have dikes here that are often threatened by muskrats, and they are trapped when they do damage. I respect that.

MaybeMorgan
Jul. 27, 2012, 10:45 AM
Bluey-very reasonable approach. Thanks for posting.


I'm joining - Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

Calvincrowe
Jul. 27, 2012, 10:58 AM
Welcome, MM! :) Glad to meet your and your bleedin' heart, too!:lol:

Hinderella
Jul. 27, 2012, 11:10 AM
While I'm sure the OP wanted genuine answers, I see that this thread has exactly the same responses as every wildlife related thread....a few "you can live with them, just be careful and here's how.." , a few "don't hurt the fuzzy wild critters!" and lots of "shoot them, shoot them now! (with apologies to Daffy Duck).
It's nice to know that no matter how much the world might change, wildlife threads on CotH are always the same :)

Calvincrowe
Jul. 27, 2012, 11:14 AM
Hinderella- since the OP has vacated her own thread, I think it now reflects to some extent how Americans fall out on the subject of wildlife.

Sharks are a good example of human reaction to wildlife. 7 people died, worldwide, in shark attacks last year. And, yet, people list them as the thing they fear greatly, dare I say, irrationally. No one lists coconuts as a fearful killer--however, more people were killed by falling coconuts worldwide than sharks last year.

Kill the coconuts!! :lol:

sunridge1
Jul. 27, 2012, 11:29 AM
I'm hardly recommending a walled enclosure with razor wire. Just a visual outline AROUND THE HOLE to give the badgers a little bit of space to look around when they emerge, without the possibility of a horse being right on top of them. :rolleyes: You'll note that most other people are recommending shooting the creatures.

Guin I was agreeing with you. I have resident badger's and regularly find holes in my pasture. They typically are not dens so I fill them with rocks once they appear unused. However I'm quite sure I don't find all of them.

My pastures are not pristine, purposely so and some of my horses are former hot house show horses. American Saddlebred's no less. They learn where to put their feet, they learn to LOOK even though they are born to look. Tough minds, tough feet and most of all, savvy to all things wild. My horses are like predators, if it runs they'll give chase, if not it's OMG! neck up, tail up, snort, run away. Kinda like what horses do if left to their own devices.:lol:

Tonkafriend
Jul. 27, 2012, 11:32 AM
You could try placating them with cheese curds and Leinenkugel!:lol:

JackieBlue
Jul. 27, 2012, 11:39 AM
You could try placating them with cheese curds and Leinenkugel!:lol:

What, the coconuts? We've got to do something about the coconuts!

Calvincrowe
Jul. 27, 2012, 11:46 AM
150 deaths last year by coconuts! This is serious people!! None were horses, but still....

The average number of people killed in horse-related accidents: 20 in the US alone.

Badger related deaths? Um..none...;)

But, the OP was not worried about rampaging badgers, but instead what havoc they might wreak about her horses via falling or disease. A legitimate concern. I do think the OP has gotten some good facts and advice and needs to make her own decisions. I won't "hate" her if she chooses to have them killed--her choice. I respect people's right to that choice.

wildlifer
Jul. 27, 2012, 11:57 AM
Coconuts can easily be taken care of by luring in a flock of African swallows.

Badger, however are generally neither vicious, nor diseased and I blame misinformation egged on by the joke Animal Planet has become for making wildlife seem melodramatic, anthropomorphic, and out for the attack. All wildlife are just trying to survive in the mess we've made of their habitat. Please consult local wildlife/animal damage control agencies, USFWS, etc (i.e. an INFORMED biologist), before taking action.

Calvincrowe
Jul. 27, 2012, 12:02 PM
Perhaps the OP could employ the Holy Hand grenade of Antioch? Work versus the Rabbit, didn't it?!:lol:

Nootka
Jul. 27, 2012, 02:03 PM
Dog was a Rhodesian Ridgeback female, with a firm sense of WHO owned THIS PLACE and the Badger didn't belong there.

She is the only dog I ever heard of winning a fight with a Badger by herself. Friend figured dog just shook the Badger to death while taking pieces out of the hide. If she lost her grip, hide came loose, she would grab the animal again to keep up the shaking. That was the dog's usual method, in removing other kinds of varmints she found. She could shake something faster than you could see it.

This is exactly what my Rhodie does also. Fast, strong and smart buggers!

Go Fish
Jul. 27, 2012, 02:29 PM
^ Well that would be the easy thing. How about LET horses learn about some wildlife. I know they are hot house flowers, blond and couldn't possibly have the intelligence to negotiate around anything native.

If we killed every threatening animal here I'd be in jail. Badgers, wolves, bears, coyotes, fishers, raccoons, deer etc. My horses live with them, disturbed earth and all plus give them a run for their money. ASB's are donkeys in disguise I swear.:yes:

I have no idea how my family raised hundreds of horses on coyote-, cougar-, badger-, racoon-, bear-infested acreage with not ONE horse ever being injured by wildlife, including new-born foals. It's absolutely freakin' miraculous.

We'd lose the occasional new-born calf to what we assumed were cougars. It was just the cost of doing business. If my Dad had tried to irradicate every type of wildlife on the ranch that posed a possible threat to the livestock, he wouldn't have had time for anything else.

Horses, while not the brightest bulbs, have a pretty darn good sense of self preservation. It's not something we've been successful in breeding out of them. Unless the badgers are living under your porch and preventing you from getting in the house, I say leave them alone.

leaf
Jul. 27, 2012, 03:40 PM
leaf here, preaching to the choir, again.

I'm so glad that horseymama posted this. She had legitimate concerns and enough sense to ask questions.
We all learned from those who have pastures and badgers.
We all learned from the folks with real knowledge of badgers and their life cycles.
We all learned of practical, non-lethal solutions.

Three cheers to the OP, all who responded, and COTH.

Horseymama
Jul. 30, 2012, 10:58 AM
Yes thank you to all that responded, it gave me some things to think about. I have been checking this thread, I have just been horse showing and pulling 12 hour days for the 3 weeks so not much time for posting.

I actually like the idea of parking a running diesel truck over the main hole, I might do that and park a running tractor over the other big one.

I have expensive show horses which are owned mostly by clients so I can't take the chance of a badger bite or something like that.

But there are lots of uninhabited pastures (of the neighbors) around us so if they could just move down the way a bit, that would be better.

goodhors
Jul. 30, 2012, 05:51 PM
And, just for the sake of clarity, Notth American badgers weigh 15 to 20the pounds, depending on gender and time of year. If a badger here in thw US weighs 35 pounds it must have accidently swallowed a brick!

Sorry to disagree with you, or maybe we have a different variety of Badgers here in Michigan. The information I checked, said they could get up to 30 pounds, 2.5ft long, so they are a LOT more powerful, than your more slender, smaller type badgers. It is mostly muscle, though they do get fat for winter sleeping. I always think that they are "lead based" because they are not huge animals. Just very dense bodied.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12145_12205-60324--,00.html

Glad to hear that OP has a variety of methods to work with in moving her Badger family along, before stronger measures might be called for.

It is great to think that horses "will learn and look" at pasture ground to avoid holes or bigger den areas. Just don't think it will happen in real life. Maybe some horses are born to be injured running over rough ground. I go for preventative action instead in filling such holes and dens. Part of the reason I also don't leave equipment parked in pastures for them to "just avoid because they learn to do that. Horse does have plenty of other ground to run on in the field, they will stay out of things".

I would also be encouraging the Badgers to move along if posssible, get them removed if they don't choose to leave.

Calamber
Jul. 30, 2012, 06:16 PM
It's tuberculosis, Calamber, that badgers carry in the UK (research much?), and there is some dispute about their role in that disease vs. cattle. A 10 second Google search revealed that only bats have been found with rabies in Oregon so far this year, with coyotes and foxes being the other carriers in the last 3 years. In fact, only 11 confirmed cases of rabies in Oregon in 2011. And none were in horses. And..the UK has been free of rabies since 1902. You truly need to research better, my dear.

The PNW is not like the Eastern seaboard when it comes to equine diseases and rabies. In 44 years, here, and 30+ of horse ownership, I've never felt the need to vax for rabies in my horses, nor has it been recommended by a vet to do so. We also so not have ground hogs/squirrels in my area (well, most of Western WA/OR really), so you can rest easy there, too.

Obviously, you are not going to agree with anything I have to say. We do not share a similar world view in regard to wildlife and humans interacting. I'll be sure to stay out of your fields.

I meant tuberculosis, fingers to brain spoke differently and yes, you are right. The wolves, eagles, cougars, coyoootie cuddlers are not in their right mind. No I would not drive off a road to avoid a frog, but no, I also do not randomly just kill animals for the fun of it, in fact, I have only killed two thing in my life besides bugs and fungus, one a fox that I suspected had rabies and another a sparrow when I was too young and was a better shot with a bb gun than I thought.

I am more rational about it now, I still will kill if it is an imminent threat, love how this is changed to cold killer though dear. Typical defense mechanism of the "nature lovers" though. Vectored diseases, just for the sake of it, do happen to mutate into different species, as they say, jump the species barrier. It happens once a certain density of the disease barrier is reached. That is what happened on the east coast, one of the things that contributed was budget cutting, they used to lace bait with rabies vaccines but cut that and quess what, now rabies is endemic in certain areas there. If you read my report on that, the county did not include the rabid groundhog in their stats, why do you think that was, and why do you think that the stats are skewed, by whom and for what purpose? To avoid a panic by not mentioning that there was a species jump? For real reason is those who like to keep the bean counters happy. No need to spend money if you just lie about the problem.

Once the rabies virus has reared it's head, as in the bats which were not an issue previously, with the dizzy brain, budget cutting and greenie predator animal snuggling (until one kills or infects you or yours), this is not a question of if it is going to happen here, it is just when will it happen here and how best to try and prevent it. When, I do not know. But just keep the goofy, I wuv every living thing including viruses approach and just keep on believing that it is just a "difference of opinion" and just like the inevitable finanacial crash without banking reregulation, the diseases will spread. Such is the nature of life and death in the world of the silly. We on the east coast never had this problem before either. The west coast never had the equine HV4 equine virus before and there was a delay of West Nile and I have never seen so many people so lax about disease prevention. Maybe it is different now but I don't see evidence of it much with the general population.

Rational balanced thinking never hurt anyone even a wild eyed died in the wool who refuses to face reality, until the day that they have to do so. I prefer to be proactive rather than reactive and do not consider myself a "killer" since the opposing theories end up killing with gusto. Look at the history of the spread of any disease, like the rabies epidemic before Pasteur's vaccine, or the period of Black Death during the time of typhus. That, by the way was a flea vector. Why wait until it is too late? Why not just act rationally now?

This is not a wildlife vs the people debate, this is sound thinking people versus those who prefer not to debate. No one ever recommends mass killings of animals until we get an outbreak such as what occurs with Hoof and Mouth disease or God forbid, we get an equine encephalitis outbreak, milder weather, mosquitoes and no spraying and this area would be toast. I would rather not see that happen, even the snuggly wugglies aught to be able to see that if they have any scientific appreciation for life.

Do stay out of my fields if you are crawling around on all fours and digging holes though, at the very least Abby my Labby would give you a real scare, nevermind me and the 22.;)

Wellspotted
Jul. 30, 2012, 06:54 PM
Coconuts can easily be taken care of by luring in a flock of African swallows.

Badger, however are generally neither vicious, nor diseased and I blame misinformation egged on by the joke Animal Planet has become for making wildlife seem melodramatic, anthropomorphic, and out for the attack. All wildlife are just trying to survive in the mess we've made of their habitat. Please consult local wildlife/animal damage control agencies, USFWS, etc (i.e. an INFORMED biologist), before taking action.

Absolutely correct there, wildlifer, it would have to be an African swallow. No European or North American swallow could manage, I don't think.
Just be sure and have them save the shells, though, for trotting and cantering!

:winkgrin:

JackieBlue
Jul. 30, 2012, 07:37 PM
I meant tuberculosis, fingers to brain spoke differently and yes, you are right. The wolves, eagles, cougars, coyoootie cuddlers are not in their right mind. No I would not drive off a road to avoid a frog, but no, I also do not randomly just kill animals for the fun of it, in fact, I have only killed two thing in my life besides bugs and fungus, one a fox that I suspected had rabies and another a sparrow when I was too young and was a better shot with a bb gun than I thought.

I am more rational about it now, I still will kill if it is an imminent threat, love how this is changed to cold killer though dear. Typical defense mechanism of the "nature lovers" though. Vectored diseases, just for the sake of it, do happen to mutate into different species, as they say, jump the species barrier. It happens once a certain density of the disease barrier is reached. That is what happened on the east coast, one of the things that contributed was budget cutting, they used to lace bait with rabies vaccines but cut that and quess what, now rabies is endemic in certain areas there. If you read my report on that, the county did not include the rabid groundhog in their stats, why do you think that was, and why do you think that the stats are skewed, by whom and for what purpose? To avoid a panic by not mentioning that there was a species jump? For real reason is those who like to keep the bean counters happy. No need to spend money if you just lie about the problem.

Once the rabies virus has reared it's head, as in the bats which were not an issue previously, with the dizzy brain, budget cutting and greenie predator animal snuggling (until one kills or infects you or yours), this is not a question of if it is going to happen here, it is just when will it happen here and how best to try and prevent it. When, I do not know. But just keep the goofy, I wuv every living thing including viruses approach and just keep on believing that it is just a "difference of opinion" and just like the inevitable finanacial crash without banking reregulation, the diseases will spread. Such is the nature of life and death in the world of the silly. We on the east coast never had this problem before either. The west coast never had the equine HV4 equine virus before and there was a delay of West Nile and I have never seen so many people so lax about disease prevention. Maybe it is different now but I don't see evidence of it much with the general population.

Rational balanced thinking never hurt anyone even a wild eyed died in the wool who refuses to face reality, until the day that they have to do so. I prefer to be proactive rather than reactive and do not consider myself a "killer" since the opposing theories end up killing with gusto. Look at the history of the spread of any disease, like the rabies epidemic before Pasteur's vaccine, or the period of Black Death during the time of typhus. That, by the way was a flea vector. Why wait until it is too late? Why not just act rationally now?

This is not a wildlife vs the people debate, this is sound thinking people versus those who prefer not to debate. No one ever recommends mass killings of animals until we get an outbreak such as what occurs with Hoof and Mouth disease or God forbid, we get an equine encephalitis outbreak, milder weather, mosquitoes and no spraying and this area would be toast. I would rather not see that happen, even the snuggly wugglies aught to be able to see that if they have any scientific appreciation for life.

Do stay out of my fields if you are crawling around on all fours and digging holes though, at the very least Abby my Labby would give you a real scare, nevermind me and the 22.;)

Rabies has never made a "species jump". Any mammal can contract rabies. Sure, some animals are more likely hosts. Either they live in close proximity to one another (social life style) or they tend to be more likely to bite, or both. But if it's warm blooded, it can contract rabies. Period. No mysterious mutation necessary.

WNT
Jul. 30, 2012, 07:40 PM
Sorry, can't resist-do you have any unwanted children (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158097) you need to dispose of? Perhaps you can get rid of two birds with one stone ;)

Wow, I just blew most of my evening catching up on that one.

Personally, I'd leave the badgers if I could. They are doing a number on your rodent population, and one big hole, I feel, is less of a danger than a bunch of smaller, well-hidden rodent holes.

Dressage.For.Life.
Jul. 31, 2012, 09:36 AM
Call Wildlife Services-- http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/us_states_maps3.shtml

rcloisonne
Aug. 2, 2012, 01:48 PM
I'd be more worried about the hole. We have a woodchuck that recently moved in. His hole in my horse's paddock is large. I'm concerned the horse will step in it at a full gallop when he's having one of his TB moments (has several per day ;)).

Haven't decided what to do about it yet. Last time this happened at another barn, I stuck a highway cone in the hole upside down. Surprisingly, it worked. "Chuck" then had to use one of his other holes to get in and out. I'm told they have multiple entrance/escape holes. Where ever those were weren't in my horses' paddock.

The way I look at it is if there's a way for a horse to get hurt on something, he will. :) I'd be calling the DEM myself and have the badgers removed.