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View Full Version : Help, when coats are waived. . .



fritz56001
Jul. 6, 2012, 11:07 PM
The forcast for my next show is temps in the low 90's high 80's and I want to make sure I am fully prepaired if coats are waived. I have done a little homework making sure I personally read the rules

"10. EXTREME WEATHER. At temperatures above 85°F, a heat index above 85°, or at the discretion of the Ground Jury or the Organizer, competitors will be permitted to compete without jackets, in the dressage and/or jumping tests. In such cases, competitors must wear either a long or short sleeved shirt of conservative color without neckwear;"

I have taken this to mean that a simple polo would be acceptable, that being said I am not a simple person :winkgrin:
so would this be acceptable? http://www.romfh.com/en/m.php?m=products_popup&pk=526378019&table=products&pkproducts=800942978

Or what do you wear color wise?

wakefield121409
Jul. 6, 2012, 11:10 PM
that would be acceptable!!! its very nice and cool looking, a simple polo would do as well :)

slp2
Jul. 6, 2012, 11:16 PM
I have a white polo shirt hanging in my trailer for when coats are waived. You just need something with sleeves and a collar (and you shouldn't wear your stock tie). I tend to go with white because it still is considered a "conservative color". You can also wear a Romfh type show shirt and just unzip it and flip it back to make a collar. Again--I would think that white would be the safest color.

JenEM
Jul. 6, 2012, 11:27 PM
I did two (unrecognized) events in June that were one-day HT, so no coats required if you didn't want to wear them. Given that it was stiflingly hot at both of them, hardly anyone did. I'd say 95% of people without coats were in white polos, myself included. A few were in plain white show shirts, without chokers. The handful I saw in a non-white shirt were in a pretty conservative color, like navy or pale blue.

I'd say the style itself is fine, but the color maybe not so much, at least for dressage. Does it come in a black/white version? Though frankly, it would probably be much cheaper just to order a couple of these for the same cost as one of the Romfh shirts, (http://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=64999&vid=1&pid=685146&scid=685146012) to have on hand for when coats are waived.

Mukluk
Jul. 6, 2012, 11:29 PM
I wore one of these in white (with medium blue accents) last weekend. It was pretty sharp. I had been admiring it for a long time but balked at the price. Despite my best efforts to keep it clean I ended up with some of those inevitable horsey stains. I hope they will come out when I wash it!

enjoytheride
Jul. 7, 2012, 07:51 AM
I have a question.

Does this rule mean if you are wearing an HJ style shirt with a ratchatcher collar that you have to take your collar off?

Or does it just mean you can't wear a stocktie?

FoxChaser
Jul. 7, 2012, 08:04 AM
From my old days at 4-H & on, it was interpreted as NO neckwear. That includes ratcatchers.

Highflyer
Jul. 7, 2012, 09:54 AM
Yup, no choker/ collar either.

KateDB
Jul. 7, 2012, 11:04 AM
I really like the look of a white short-sleeved button down shirt! It's nice and loose and cool and looks crisp and tidy and a bit more professional to me. I first noticed how great they look when I saw that Phillip was wearing one at Seneca years ago and I promptly got one for myself.

quietann
Jul. 7, 2012, 11:58 AM
Some might consider the blue a bit bright, but I really don't think it would be a problem. OTOH, one fussy dressage judge could wreck your day, just because.

I look terrible in white, so I just don't wear it. My show shirt for wearing with a jacket is "champagne" colored (and matches my show pad and stock tie.) My hot day show shirt is a light slate blue with very discreet grey trim, in a technical (cooling) fabric. I unzip it a little and fold down the neck and it looks just like a polo. No one has ever said a thing about it.

Now, I do dressage, and only schooling shows. Dressage can be very stuffy, though...

Fancy That
Jul. 9, 2012, 07:10 PM
I wouldn't do that bright blue/aqua shirt - not for dressage. Best to go conservative-color. Get that same shirt in white perhaps?

But you can't go wrong in a white polo shirt or a white short-sleeve button-down, or even just regular short-sleeve type dressage shirt (Romph has a bunch of those)

I love Aeropostale for polo shirts!!! Super flattering cut, long enough to not come untucked even in XC and very reasonable.

If you don't want to do white, then I agree with a more muted or neutral or more conservative color (even Navy or Black)

alto
Jul. 9, 2012, 07:38 PM
I have taken this to mean that a simple polo would be acceptable, that being said I am not a simple person :winkgrin:
so would this be acceptable? http://www.romfh.com/en/m.php?m=products_popup&pk=526378019&table=products&pkproducts=800942978

Or what do you wear color wise?

Gorgeous shirt :yes: ...
Dri-Lex Microfiber & other techno fabrics really are cooler than cotton.

But waive the jackets at a dressage show & white is really all you'll see (& the odd off-white) - possibly a bit of glitter/sheen woven into the fabric.

Fillabeana
Jul. 9, 2012, 07:44 PM
Now that I have one, I would wear a plaid CoolMedics vest.
It looks sharp and dressy, and keeps you from overheating.

https://www.coolmedics.com/products.php?product=Plaid-V-Neck-Cooling-Vest-P1133

The pic isn't great, but you would look 'dressed up', even more so than in just a polo and belt, in the plaid vest with a white polo underneath.
I wore one last weekend for a clinic, and it worked great. I am really sun sensitive and get heat exhaustion pretty easily.
Apparently these type cooling vests don't work very well in high humidity, though.

Neigh-Neigh
Jul. 9, 2012, 09:56 PM
This will work.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/popped-collar.jpg

Helmet shown, is optional.

vagabondrider
Jul. 9, 2012, 09:58 PM
But waive the jackets at a dressage show & white is really all you'll see (& the odd off-white) - possibly a bit of glitter/sheen woven into the fabric.

I went to a dressage show about a week ago & wore a navy polo (in a breathable/wicking fabric). Didn't see a single person in a coat on that day. Although most people wore white shirts, I wasn't the only person in navy or black. At NAJYRC last year when they banned coats for the pure dressage (not the eventing dressage), most riders wore navy or black polos. More flattering to most people than white, and it keeps a more traditional looking color scheme going (dark upper body, light breeches, dark boots).

tle
Jul. 10, 2012, 09:01 AM
Black and navy can hardly be argued as not being conservative, so I think you'd be fine if you went that way. The aqua OTOH... stretching it a bit IMHO.

FLeventer
Jul. 10, 2012, 09:53 AM
I do navy or black when coats are waved. I dislike the white polos as they are not flattering to me. I also have a nice light light blue kerrits polo that I use for schooling shows.

vteventer
Jul. 10, 2012, 10:22 AM
I don't personally consider aqua to be conservative- I wouldn't wear this shirt outside of the xc course.

Cameraine
Jul. 10, 2012, 12:56 PM
I have two polos that I will alternate depending on how high the temp is, and what type of HT, as in a local low level schooling HT, a schooling HT at a big venue, or a recognized HT.

One is a light grey and goes with my navy and grey colors, its an Ariat. The other is a pale blue with chocolate trim that goes with my kerrits tan and chocolate breeches. That one is a Romfh if I recall correctly.

The Ariat is heavier weight fabric but goes with everything. The other is lighter and a bit cooler.

I also have a white short sleeve show shirt with a wrap collar but I haven't worn it yet. Bought it for the local h/j we'regoing to be doing for mileage.

Better to go with understated colors than something that yells. Especially if the dressage judge is picky.

wildlifer
Jul. 10, 2012, 04:57 PM
LOL, yes, you can wear whatever has a collar, but not a choker. I just unzip the neck zipper on the shirt I wear under my jacket, I have one of the Riding Sport ones that Dover sells, the synthetic fabrics are so much cooler and short sleeves are a must for me! Mine is white with blue piping on the seams.

fooler
Jul. 10, 2012, 10:34 PM
FYI - My bolding:
USEF Eventing Rules:
SUBCHAPTER EV-1 GENERAL RULES FOR ALL EVENTING COMPETITIONS
EV101 Introduction.
1. GENERAL. An Eventing Competition includes one or more tests from the following branches of equitation: dressage, cross-country and jumping. The Federation and the USEA recognize three types of Eventing Competitions: Tests (Individual or Combined), Horse Trials, and Three- Day Events.
2. RESPONSIBILITY. A competitor is ultimately responsible for knowing these rules and complying with them. The appointment of a steward or official, whether or not provided for in these rules, does not absolve the competitor from such responsibility.
3. CIRCUMSTANCES NOT COVERED IN THESE RULES.
a. For any circumstances not specifically covered in these rules, reference should be made to
one of the following publications of the FEI:
(1) Rules for Three-Day Events
(2) Rules for Dressage Events
(3) Rules for Jumping Events
b. Every eventuality cannot be provided for in these rules. In any unforeseen or exceptional circumstances it is the duty of the Ground Jury to make a decision in a sporting spirit, and to approach as nearly as possible the intention of these rules.
In short officials will refer first to the USEF and then FEI Rules for rule/direction. If not specifically addressed in either then a decision is made in a 'sporting spirit' within the 'intention' of the rules.

So the USEF Rules for Dressage Attire:
5. DRESSAGE TEST.
a. Horse Trials (Beginner Novice through Preliminary)—protective headgear—predominantly black or dark blue; Coat—dark color or tweed, tail coats are not permitted; Shirt—white or light color, with stock and pin, or choker, or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white: Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, field, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps and/or half-chaps are not allowed.

10. EXTREME WEATHER. At temperatures above 85°F, a heat index above 85°, or at the discretion of the Ground Jury or the Organizer, competitors will be permitted to compete without jackets, in the dressage and/or jumping tests. In such cases, competitors must wear either a long or short sleeved shirt of conservative color without neckwear; members of the armed forces and police units may ride in their summer uniforms. In inclement weather competitors may wear a windbreaker jacket or rain coat over their clothing; their number must be visible.

Since 'conservative color' can be defined as light or dark, we go to the FEI rules:
Article 512
5. Dressage Test
5.1 CIVILIAN – compulsory except as indicated in 5.2 & 5.3 below: hunting dress or uniform of a riding club, white shirt and tie, gloves, white, fawn or cream breeches, boots, hunting cap, protective headgear or top hat, and spurs (in accordance with Para. 3 above)

In short the FEI and USEF specifically define proper Dressage shirt color as White with the USEF allowing 'light colored' shirts. So based on that, the intention of the rule is for competitors to wear white or light colored shirts - not black, navy etc.
This is the logic I would use if a judge asked me, as a TD, to speak to a competitor wearing a dark colored shirt or if a competitor asked me about proper 'hot weather' attire.

yventer
Jul. 10, 2012, 10:57 PM
More to the point, as so many HTs (at least on the East coast) take place over one day:

8. At Eventing Tests or when all three phases of a Horse Trials are contested over one day - Protective
headgear and protective vests as above. Clothing as appropriate for the test in progress (see
below), or at the competitor’s option - boots, britches, spurs and gloves - as applicable for the test
being performed. Long or short sleeved shirt with collar and without neckwear, of a conservative
color, neatly tucked into riding breeches.

So you can wear a conservative colored shirt with sleeves and collar for dressage. You don't need coats to be waived at a one-day HT to do so. And since I understand the reason for this rule about 1-day HT clothing is to allow competitors with multiple horses or very limited time between phases to basically ride in their XC shirts, I think colors other than pale/neutral would be taken to be allowed. Of course, it'd certainly be nice if this were spelled out ;-> But I've seen ULR's at 1-day HT's wearing navy (and maybe even red?) polo shirts in dressage.

Beam Me Up
Jul. 10, 2012, 11:03 PM
If conservative = white or light color it would be clearer if they used that same phrase in the "extreme weather" section.

As is, using separate terms suggests they could be different.

fooler
Jul. 10, 2012, 11:09 PM
If conservative = white or light color it would be clearer if they used that same phrase in the "extreme weather" section.

As is, using separate terms suggests they could be different.

Agree it could/should be stated more clearly. I guess if you look a riding attire from some 10-20 years ago the definitive show shirt, ratcatcher, were white or light colored.

vagabondrider
Jul. 10, 2012, 11:24 PM
When coats are waived under the "extreme weather" provision, the attire listed in that provision supersedes the usual dress rules. This means that the shirt must be a "conservative color". It doesn't mean that it must also be "white or light colored." How do we know this? Well, when coats are waived, do we wear stock ties & pins (usual dress rules), or do we wear no neckwear (extreme weather rules)? No neckwear- when the 2 rules are in conflict, the extreme weather provision is definitive in situations for which coats have been waived.

I agree that white & light colored are the typical colors for show shirts/ratcatchers, but the extreme weather provision allows for atypical attire according to the conditions (eg, no coats in heat, raincoats in rain).

Allowing "conservative colors" for shirts when coats are waived is fairly new (maybe just the last year or two). The rulebook used to require white or light colored shirts when coats were waived. I think this may be the source of some of the confusion.

yventer
Jul. 10, 2012, 11:24 PM
The whole "dress" thing for eventing has been very unclear for some time. I remember in about 2003? when suddenly the dress for Eventing did not allow females to wear white britches. I guess someone went overboard on enforcing "hunt attire". I recall during that year (before the definition got changed back) that certain dressage judges would write "No white britches allowed" on the test comments of female riders and underline it. Or even try to eliminate women for wearing white britches.

I also recall that at about the same time, the shirts when coats were waived had to be a "solid, conservative color." I actually went to a TD to ask if my pale pink/white seersucker shirt would be allowed as "solid", since from any distance over 4-5 feet, who could tell?

You'd think they could be clear about dress requirements, at least. There are so many better things to be unclear about ;->

tle
Jul. 11, 2012, 07:37 AM
fooler... since the extreme weather rule DOES SPECIFICALLY state the color ("conservative") then there is no reason to go to the other rules to figure out dress. it is specifically stated in that section. Unfortunately, like many other rules, the wording is vague and left open for interpretation by the individual. :rolleyes:

yventer... the rules NEVER "prohibited" women from wearing white breeches, and if any judge had ever done that to me, I would have been livid. The rules at the time SUGGESTED no white breeches. I believe the wording was something like "should not", but it did not make non-white breeches a requirement.

purplnurpl
Jul. 11, 2012, 08:41 AM
The forcast for my next show is temps in the low 90's high 80's and I want to make sure I am fully prepaired if coats are waived. I have done a little homework making sure I personally read the rules

"10. EXTREME WEATHER. At temperatures above 85°F, a heat index above 85°, or at the discretion of the Ground Jury or the Organizer, competitors will be permitted to compete without jackets, in the dressage and/or jumping tests. In such cases, competitors must wear either a long or short sleeved shirt of conservative color without neckwear;"

I have taken this to mean that a simple polo would be acceptable, that being said I am not a simple person :winkgrin:
so would this be acceptable? http://www.romfh.com/en/m.php?m=products_popup&pk=526378019&table=products&pkproducts=800942978

Or what do you wear color wise?

I'm going to say no. I don't think that is a conservative color.

I never don't wear a coat for dressage. Even in 100* you can just slip it on right before going into the dressage arena.

For show jumping I would go with only a white polo at a rec HT.

At schooling HTs I wear a black polo and tan breeches to mimic the dark look of a coat.

tle
Jul. 11, 2012, 08:55 AM
I never don't wear a coat for dressage. Even in 100* you can just slip it on right before going into the dressage arena.

Nice for you, but the rules allow us not to HAVE to worry about trying to find a place to put the jacket while we're warming up, having to mess with putting it on and disrupting the warmup, or having to deal with 100* PLUS a dark coat/extra layer. May not be wool, but an extra layer of polyester isn't fun either. I'm happy that you don't mind it, but some of us do so the "you can just slip it on and deal with it for 5 minutes" isn't exactly helpful.

slp2
Jul. 11, 2012, 09:19 AM
Agreed TLE! This is one of my pet peeves about the "you only need to wear it for 5 minutes" argument about jackets. I am usually a "one woman show" and I don't have anyone to hold and hand me my jacket just before I go in. Finding a handy spot to hang it (and access it without getting off) near the warm up area is very rare. I usually end up wearing it for 45 minutes by the time I am back at the stall.

Personally, I LOVED it last year when Gemwood HT told us days before the competition (based on the stinkin' hot temperature predictions) that coats were waived. It allowed all the competitors to pack an appropriate shirt for the event.

KateDB
Jul. 11, 2012, 01:02 PM
here's a hint on why white can be better than shirts of color.
when white gets "damp" with sweat, it is hard to see the moisture.
when, for instance blue is damp with sweat, the blue color is darker and the sweat becomes WAY more apparent.
Now, there is no reason to shy away from the fact that everyone sweats when its hot, but it depends upon how much you want to show it off!

Highflyer
Jul. 11, 2012, 01:05 PM
here's a hint on why white can be better than shirts of color.
when white gets "damp" with sweat, it is hard to see the moisture.
when, for instance blue is damp with sweat, the blue color is darker and the sweat becomes WAY more apparent.
Now, there is no reason to shy away from the fact that everyone sweats when its hot, but it depends upon how much you want to show it off!

My experience is that if you sweat enough while wearing white, your bra becomes apparent, too :)

53
Jul. 11, 2012, 02:43 PM
Thanks for the idea of the areopostale polos, they're on sale right now and I just scored! Happy Un-Birthday to me!!

fooler
Jul. 11, 2012, 03:10 PM
Experience and common sense has taught us Southerners to wear light colored and 'loose-fitting' clothing some 3-6 months of the year, when we live 'extreme weather' conditions. That also fits with the general dressage attire, including conservative colors.

If you wish to wear dark colors in extreme heat conditions, then do so. Just make certain it has short or long sleeves and a collar.

My only concern now is to have my foot heal as quickly as possible so I can ride again.