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View Full Version : No mats, no missing them?... (yet)



Pennywell Bay
Jul. 5, 2012, 09:44 AM
So I relocated for work from PA to Indiana. I am thrilled with the barn, the one potential issue I had was I "needed" to get mats into the stalls. Concrete aisle but stalls are (hard to tell) not quite earth, not quite gravel....hmmmm)

Well.....after a nightmare move and a shady contractor (long story) :mad:, horses came down with no mats.:o

I stressed, I budgeted (9 stalls to mat) and here I am over a month later, no mats yet due to other issues, no problem (yet).

Am I crazy that this is not an issue? The stalls seem easier to me, but in PA I had some water issues and we ARE in a drought here.

My guys aren't big "diggers", yet (though I'll go home tonight and find one dug to China..)

Anyone else NOT put mats down and not have it be a problem? I'm not saying I'm not going to do it, but it is becoming less of a priority than I thought it was going to be.

Just interested in other people's thoughts. I would have DIED without them in PA.....

GoForAGallop
Jul. 5, 2012, 09:54 AM
There are plenty of barns that don't use mats, and instead use some sort of compacted dirt/stone/gravel/etc.

Mats save on bedding, are easier to clean, and require less maintenance. (Don't have to regrade the floors every so many months due to diggers/etc.) I also feel like they provide a small amount of cushion and a more comfortable sleeping surface, but that can certainly be made up for with additional bedding.

If you're happy without your mats, then don't buy them and find some other horse-related expense to spend that obscene amount of money on. :lol: Meanwhile, you can always stalk craigslist for good deals...there's someone on mine right now selling mats for $10 a pop....if I had somewhere to put any more, I'd go pick up a couple. Also, Tractor Supply tends to do a Black Friday deal every year for $20 mats.

trubandloki
Jul. 5, 2012, 10:31 AM
No mats drains better.

I have two stalls with mats (both horses dig) and one stall with out mats.

If it is working with out mats then leave it. You can always add them later.

Calvincrowe
Jul. 5, 2012, 10:43 AM
If you enjoy re-leveling stalls, adding gravel and compacting regularly you can skip the mats. If your stalls were originally made of carefully layered gravel and stone dust, well compacted then you might be fine.

If I were in your shoes, I'd mat a stall a month, or as you can afford it.

crosscreeksh
Jul. 5, 2012, 11:33 PM
I've had horses for over 50 years and never had mats until 20 years ago when we moved into a 40 stall race horse facility. ALL the stalls were packed asphalt!! UGH!! Despite bedding REALLY deep, we did have to mat some of the stalls for horses that were more arthritic. Left that barn after a few years and built a new 30 stall stable of our own. Over a good sandy loam foundation we had 6 inches of clay, tamped with a power tamper installed, before the stall walls went up. We did have one mat in the doorway of each stall, but never had a problem with digging or erosion in any of the stalls in 10 years. Our current barn has packed stone dust over clay, over gravel. We have full mats in two stalls - horses that walk the stall - but all the others have only one mat in the doorway. If your foundation is good in the stalls, I think I'd wait and see how things went before I spent the $$$ matting all the stalls. I personally bed as deeply WITH stall mats as without. A horse just doesn't look cozy curled up on a rubber mat!!

Hampton Bay
Jul. 6, 2012, 12:40 AM
I don't have mats in my mares double stall. I find it easier to clean since stuff doesn't end up shoved under a mat. Sure her floor isn't perfectly level. Its just the sandy clay ground the barn was built over. But it drains urine fairly well. The mare stands in one spot except to drink or poop, so she's not going to wear a dip in the ground. But matting it would have cots me over $500 and I just didn't have the money.

If i had a stall walker or one that liked to paw, I would mat that stall. Same with an arthritic horse. My mare is 21 and is a bit stiff and creaky, but she still doesn't need mats. She comes out of her house after 14 to 16 hrs just as well as she went in.

Plainandtall
Jul. 6, 2012, 10:41 AM
I'm looking into stall flooring options right now- and (this is not an endorsement- it's just a mention) There is a permeable liner product out there- it seems there are a few companies and I have not seen/compared their products... "Stall Savers" is one of them. The permeable liners are thinner/lighter than rubber mats- and they are seamless (assuming that one dimension of the stall isn't over 12 feet) You need to put down a good draining base below the liner- and then it seems you bed deeply- they all say the savings is not in putting less shaving in- but in taking less OUT.

Part of the reason for the deep bedding *seems* to be to protect the liner from wear and tear- they seem that they are a dividing barrier- but not really intended to be a durable standing surface.

Stall Savers says they ship free and by my math, they are less expensive than tractor supply rubber (not including the effort and cost of the drainage layer- but I have to do that anyway since I'm doing a new barn)

I wanted to post here and ask about permeable mats if anyone has used the products they have on the market now. I have experience at one farm which had this AMAZING beautiful material in their aisles and stalls- it was a heavy duty woven fabric (similar to webbing for halters) and it was reclaimed conveyor belt from a paper mill- it was 12 feet wide, tan color and a horse could piss in the aisle and it would just VANISH. It was awesome. They secured it by nailing it to 2x4s that were sunk in the ground.

I hate the puddling/spreading of urine on rubber mats...(with a draft horse it's like dumping a full 5 gal bucket on the floor) but I like the rubber mat surface. I wish I could custom tailor each stall for each horse's urine habits and dig "piss pit" drainage with a small permeable mat over that area and rubber everywhere else.

bdj
Jul. 6, 2012, 11:03 AM
I don't really use mats as stall flooring (and don't want them). Stall floor is just plain, clean fill dirt and I use straw as bedding if I have to put anyone up for any length of time. I do have one mat in a corner of my stall, and two in the "hay corner" or the run-in - my old guy was a pretty messy eater, and I didn't want him to ingest a ton of dirt, and this was the easiest solution.
I also have a heavy duty ring mat at the outside dutch door of the stall - it's done a really great job of keeping that area mud free, and the grass has even grown through it, so you don't really notice that it's there. As I can afford it, I'd really like to add a "border" of them to that side of the barn, since the stall doors open out into my "night pen" and I like to allow free access to that area.

I would like to floor my stall/s with one of the stall grid products eventually (like this one: www.stable-grid.com), but for now, it's not a high priority.

hundredacres
Jul. 6, 2012, 11:13 AM
No mats here. I bed with straw on clay floors and don't see a difference at all, except there aren't pools of urine like there are with mats (a problem with unleveled floors). The floors absorb better so the "less bedding" theory doesn't hold true in these stalls.

I need to have the floors of my stalls re-done since they've always had low spots in some of them (from before we were here). I have no idea how much that will cost, but I'm not looking forward to it. I'll mat the floors when the stalls are level.

What part of Indiana are you in?

msj
Jul. 6, 2012, 12:17 PM
As far as I'm concerned, mats only help with a digger, an eventual hole to fill and easier daily cleaning because the floor is level, BUT I do know I use a LOT more shavings because the urine doesn't sink into the ground. It pools on the surface of the mats and soaks up more shavings than if I didn't have mats and I've had horses for 50+ yrs. When I built my barn, I initially used a lot of gravel going from larger to smaller for drainage and it was great for maybe 3 yrs till the boys made their own big hole in the center and at the same time I got a couple of horses that were diggers. :( I releveled the stalls and got mats. Had to do the same with the aisle. I won't use concrete or asphalt but a dirt aisle needs maintenance every couple of yrs and I couldn't always get someone in for that small job. I finally had the aisle releveled and put mats down the entire aisle.

If you can live without them great but I like the suggestion of matting one stall a month or even every couple of months. Good luck. :)

msj
Jul. 6, 2012, 12:26 PM
II would like to floor my stall/s with one of the stall grid products eventually (like this one: www.stable-grid.com), but for now, it's not a high priority.

A friend did his stalls with the grid and filled the grids with either sand or stone dust-I don't remember which. Unfortunately the grids were a heavy plastic and at least one horse that pushed his bedding all around and then would lie down. He really scraped his legs up badly against the bare grid. This was several yrs ago so the material in what you are looking at may be different than what his grid was made of. Just keep that possibility in mind before you put grids down in all your stalls. Maybe do one stall and see how each of your horses react to it. I know I have one horse that pushes all his bedding from the center, pees on the empty spot and then will lie down. :( When I do the 10 PM barn check I always take the fork and push bedding back to the center for him.

furlong47
Jul. 6, 2012, 01:55 PM
I've mucked many a stall, mats or no mats, all types of bedding. I prefer stalls without mats!

oldpony66
Jul. 6, 2012, 02:22 PM
A friend did his stalls with the grid and filled the grids with either sand or stone dust-I don't remember which. Unfortunately the grids were a heavy plastic and at least one horse that pushed his bedding all around and then would lie down. He really scraped his legs up badly against the bare grid. This was several yrs ago so the material in what you are looking at may be different than what his grid was made of. Just keep that possibility in mind before you put grids down in all your stalls. Maybe do one stall and see how each of your horses react to it. I know I have one horse that pushes all his bedding from the center, pees on the empty spot and then will lie down. :( When I do the 10 PM barn check I always take the fork and push bedding back to the center for him.

I had the grids in my stalls (at my former barn) and I loved them EXCEPT for when the bedding would get pushed around and exposed - it was actually a bit slippery! Even deep bedding can get rearranged by a horse. Lesson learned - request a sample of the material before purchasing and installing!

I use the Stall Skins now, although you can purchase similar fabric under different names. It's held up for me, drains a little bit - not as good as the grid, but obviously more than mats. It's not slippery or hard at all.

OP, your base might be a packed stonedust type material, and It might hold up pretty well for you if your horses don't set out to destroy it. You could always play the "wait and see" game... if you start noticing issues then you can decide on mats or some other system to protect the base.

hundredacres
Jul. 6, 2012, 03:24 PM
I didn't think the geogrid is intended for stalls. Isn't it to hold the stone product in place?

2DogsFarm
Jul. 6, 2012, 03:44 PM
I'm in IN too and do not have mats in my stalls.
The entire barn is floored with crushed stone - called stonedust - grains smaller than pea gravel, larger than sand.

After 8 years this stuff has compacted so the aisle feels like cement to me & is easily swept, but the horses still sometimes leave a shallow hoofprint so it has some give for them.
Inside the stalls it is the same and I bed with pellets directly over the stonedust.
Minimal dust in my barn - mostly from leaving stalls open to outside 24/7 and the barn doors open whenever I possibly can.

I would never go any other way for flooring.
Unless I win the lottery and can have the fancy rubber pavers put in ;)

Pennywell Bay
Jul. 7, 2012, 11:13 AM
Hundredacres- I am in New Palestine, just south of Indy and the solo hunter person (it seems). Any advice on hunter trainers? I don't mind travel (been commuting from Pa since Feb) and want to keep my young hunter going ( she was 6Th at Devon this year).

My2cents
Jul. 7, 2012, 11:41 AM
For years I had packed stone dust and clay and every year I would set aside a week to re level the stalls (renting a compacter and buying more stone dust). I finally relented and put in mats BUT I put in mats that are normally used in wash stalls. The hole-y mats drain just as well as the non matted stalls and the best part is that the stalls stay LEVEL.
You may not see any problems just yet, but watch those pee spots. Concentrated urine can dig a hole by just sitting there.

hundredacres
Jul. 7, 2012, 11:57 AM
Hundredacres- I am in New Palestine, just south of Indy and the solo hunter person (it seems). Any advice on hunter trainers? I don't mind travel (been commuting from Pa since Feb) and want to keep my young hunter going ( she was 6Th at Devon this year).

PB, I'm waaaay up north near MI/OH but there are hunters there for sure. I just switched from dressage to h/j and you're riding in levels out of my league but I've heard wonderful things about a couple of trainers at IRUS (http://www.irus-stables.com/). I don't know if they do hunters there (mostly dressage I think) or ride at your level, but maybe they know of someone.

You should post a query about it - there are some Indy people on this board who will have better contacts than me. Unfortunately, all I know are dressage names.

Oh! You do know about the Trader's Point Charity Show in August, right? Maybe there will be some contacts made there.

ETA: have you talked to anyone at Grandview Stables? I know they do A circuit, perhaps they'd be a good contact as well.

vicarious
Jul. 7, 2012, 03:11 PM
Have done both ways.

Went years with dirt floors, and sawdust bedding. No problem.

Moved to a new barn. Cement floors! Way too much trouble to blast out, and who knows what's under that. So mats. More work, more bedding. And... someone is always pulling up a corner and getting bedding under it which gets more bedding under it, til you give up and excavate. What fun!

blairasb
Jul. 7, 2012, 03:25 PM
Mats and bare floors each have their advantages and disadvantages.

My main issue with mats is that I usually go through MORE bedding when matted. with mats, if you have a horse who pees in a certain place where it can't drain down, it pools and so the only way it goes anywhere is to have it soaked up by bedding. Without mats, if you have decent drainage in place (not just some packed dirt), the urine at least partially soaks into the floor.

Of course, the flip side is that you're going to end up with a low spot from cleaning/raking the urine spot in a non-matted stall- even if you're careful.

Then if you have a pawer... stall walker... etc.... they can make short work of a non-matted stall. Of course, they're a PITA with mats too because they can shift mats just enough that bedding creeps up underneath it, makes heaves, etc.....

Pennywell Bay
Jul. 9, 2012, 10:11 AM
[QUOTE=hundredacres;6422477] I just switched from dressage to h/j and you're riding in levels out of my league
QUOTE]

ha. My mare is out of MY league (as in too fancy and nice), hence the need for a trainer down here. :) She is so tolerant of her ammy mother but if I don't get a trainer down here, I tell her she'll be the fanciest buggy horse in Indy! :)

merrygoround
Jul. 9, 2012, 05:19 PM
[QUOTE=hundredacres;6422477] I just switched from dressage to h/j and you're riding in levels out of my league
QUOTE]

ha. My mare is out of MY league (as in too fancy and nice), hence the need for a trainer down here. :) She is so tolerant of her ammy mother but if I don't get a trainer down here, I tell her she'll be the fanciest buggy horse in Indy! :)

Did someone get lost??????

And :sigh: I too could cheerfully go with clay or packed stone dust, and no mats. But that is not to be.

hundredacres
Jul. 9, 2012, 06:57 PM
[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;6427043]

Did someone get lost??????



No, a little sidetrack. You must have skipped posts. ;)

Amwrider
Jul. 10, 2012, 12:55 AM
I have dirt floors and use small flake pine on top. My wetter horses I did put Stall Savers down which are the pressed fiber "skins" that stretch over the whole floor.

Prior to putting the Stall Savers down, we dug a large drain - about 2 or 3 feet across and a couple of feet deep, and filled it with pea gravel and septic sand, then put the Stall Saver on top and anchored it to the walls.

We keep it bedded moderately, the wet horses stay drier but you have to keep the bedding "fluffed". If you let it pack down it doesn't seem to drain as well.

I bought my Stall Savers from the feed store at Tampa Bay Downs, they do sell online though.

I have found similar material in the Farm Tek catalog. It is thinner than what I bought from the track, but is 1/3 the price. I bough enough to do two more stalls and that is my project for this week. It is called "non woven pond underliner" and if you call them you can request a sample. I did and I tried to rip and puncture it with a screwdriver and could not do it so we will see how it holds up to a horse's hooves.

Plainandtall
Jul. 10, 2012, 11:10 AM
Interesting. Thanks for mentioning what you've found. That farm tek stuff looks a little fuzzy- almost like a fishtank filter material. In the pictures it shows it as a deep underlayer- to seperate different substrates, but not something on the surface. Do you already have the material in your hands? How are you planning to finish the stall? with just bedding over the liner? or with limestone dust over? That fuzziness concerns me- like it would just get clogged with the stall sediment.

I have requested a stall savers sample, but haven't heard back yet. Is your stall saver also so fuzzy looking? The photos on the stall savers site seemed more like... oh you know those fake mulch looking collars they sell to put around your trees so you don't have to mulch them- made of recycled shredded rubber- I imagined the stall saver product more like that- only more like a textile than a mat.

I think the farm tek product looks like an interesting material for high traffic problem areas outside- like a gate or a round bale feeder. I have horses of many sizes- ponies to draft and I really feel bad for the ponies (who do so little damage to the ground surface) because they have to deal with the giant potholes and muck mess made by the draft's giant feet and weight. That one horse makes a mess for all the others to clamber through- and when it freezes it's downright treacherous. I wish I could stabilize the clay in those problem spots so it would support his weight. The various dairy solutions really interest me.

Amwrider
Jul. 11, 2012, 08:54 AM
The Stall Saver material and the Farmtek material are the same, fuzzy on the underside and smooth on the top side. The Stall Saver material is much thicker.

I think I paid about $180 per stall with the stall saver, the Farmtek material comes to about $60 a stall. This does not include the cost of mounting it. I think I am going to use wood strips and large headed screws.

I will be instealling it in two stalls this week so we will see how it goes and see how durable it is. There are videos on Youtube showing how to install it (but they did not put drains in their stalls.

Also, if you have a horse that paws a lot at the door or under the feeder, you may want to put half of a mat to protect eventual wear on the liner.

Hippolyta
Jul. 13, 2012, 07:42 AM
I've mucked many a stall, mats or no mats, all types of bedding. I prefer stalls without mats!

Same here. To really keep stalls clean & comfy, I think matted stalls need MORE shavings b/c otherwise all shavings get soaked or urine pools. Sometimes wet mats can be slippery (I know some have ridges/nubs, but that makes cleaning even harder).

When we built our barn, we did stones, then gravel with packed clay on top. Compared to other flooring in other stalls that I have mucked, I prefer ours.

If you have cement, though, no other choice other than jack hammer it out, so I would go with mats in that situation, but otherwise I am anti-mat. Maybe if you have a digger that wants to get to China.

I took lessons in barn that subscribed to the mat = save on shavings fallacy, & in the morning b/f stalls were mucked the place stank (horses only in for the night, so it was only about 9 hours of build up)

Punkie
Jul. 14, 2012, 10:42 PM
I've only ever kept horses on mats. That being said, when I built my barn, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I did NOT want any seams. If there is one thing I can't stand it's uneven flooring and shavings under the mats! So I invested in the ComfortStall system which is a mattress base with a one piece mat that is bolted or tapconed into the wall. Today was the first day I had horses in my new barn (YAY!) and thusly the first day I mucked those stalls...it was the easiest, most pleasant mucking experience I've ever had; and a few of my horses are PIGS! LOL. It was a LOT of money, but IMHO it was well-worth it. I'll end up saving quite a bit in the long run, especially in time and aggravation!

http://www.comfortstall.com/CS_Products_Comfortstall.html

hundredacres
Jul. 14, 2012, 10:50 PM
I've only ever kept horses on mats. That being said, when I built my barn, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I did NOT want any seams. If there is one thing I can't stand it's uneven flooring and shavings under the mats! So I invested in the ComfortStall system which is a mattress base with a one piece mat that is bolted or tapconed into the wall. Today was the first day I had horses in my new barn (YAY!) and thusly the first day I mucked those stalls...it was the easiest, most pleasant mucking experience I've ever had; and a few of my horses are PIGS! LOL. It was a LOT of money, but IMHO it was well-worth it. I'll end up saving quite a bit in the long run, especially in time and aggravation!

http://www.comfortstall.com/CS_Products_Comfortstall.html

Dang, I was hoping you shared pictures of your new barn and stalls!

tradewind
Jul. 14, 2012, 11:16 PM
I have mats in one stall for a horse with an incredibly bad knee. It is the worst to clean...I use lots of bedding regardless and would cheerfully not use mats again. I have found in certain facilities that to them mats mean no real bedding, which I find hateful. The horses stand in pee etc.

Amwrider
Sep. 9, 2012, 08:48 AM
Just posting an update, the liner from Farm Teck is fuzzy on both sides, it does work but you REALLY have to prep underneath the mat and stretch it out well when setting it up to avoid wrinkles that will catch the pitchfork when you clean.

If I had to do it over again, I would havedome something different underneath the stalls, not sure what yet.....pacled stone dust? Sand? Not sure, but the big "drains" that we dug and filled with gravel and sand are not working out in the wet season here in FL as our water table is apparently too high, it is almost like a wick that is drawing water into the stalls:(

It works great during the dry season though! I am just going through lots and lots of bedding and stripping right now. Thankfully only 4 of 26 stalls were done this way.

Pennywell Bay
Sep. 9, 2012, 08:55 AM
Just posting an update, the liner from Farm Teck is fuzzy on both sides, it does work but you REALLY have to prep underneath the mat and stretch it out well when setting it up to avoid wrinkles that will catch the pitchfork when you clean.

If I had to do it over again, I would havedome something different underneath the stalls, not sure what yet.....pacled stone dust? Sand? Not sure, but the big "drains" that we dug and filled with gravel and sand are not working out in the wet season here in FL as our water table is apparently too high, it is almost like a wick that is drawing water into the stalls:(

It works great during the dry season though! I am just going through lots and lots of bedding and stripping right now. Thankfully only 4 of 26 stalls were done this way.

I am trying to imagine fuzzy.. the rubber is fuzzy? Thanks for the update!

Amwrider
Sep. 9, 2012, 09:08 AM
It is not rubber, it is a very strong material.....think black, thick felt that is super strong.

SonnysMom
Sep. 9, 2012, 10:23 PM
The barn I am at does not use mats. They put down a stone gravel base then have boards the run the length of the stall with spaces between the boards. It is then filled between the boards with stone dust.
Stalls drain well but the boards keep the stone dust from getting potholes or from being pawed up by the horse. Stall stays nice and level. She beds in bulk sawdust/shavings. She beds well but not heavy.

This barn has no bad odor to it. My mom, who is not a horse person, was out to visit my horse a few years ago in the summer. The horses had been all day so it should have been the time of day the stalls were at their worst. She commented to me on the way home that she was surprised at the lack of smell and lack of flies. I have always kept my horses at barns where the stalls are cleaned well on a daily basis. I mention this because I have had people express concern that the barn must smell because some of the urine is draining under the stall and not being removed with the shavings. I do not feel that it is an issue.

Amwrider
Sep. 11, 2012, 08:40 AM
The barn I am at does not use mats. They put down a stone gravel base then have boards the run the length of the stall with spaces between the boards. It is then filled between the boards with stone dust.
Stalls drain well but the boards keep the stone dust from getting potholes or from being pawed up by the horse. Stall stays nice and level. She beds in bulk sawdust/shavings. She beds well but not heavy.

This barn has no bad odor to it. My mom, who is not a horse person, was out to visit my horse a few years ago in the summer. The horses had been all day so it should have been the time of day the stalls were at their worst. She commented to me on the way home that she was surprised at the lack of smell and lack of flies. I have always kept my horses at barns where the stalls are cleaned well on a daily basis. I mention this because I have had people express concern that the barn must smell because some of the urine is draining under the stall and not being removed with the shavings. I do not feel that it is an issue.

Sonnysmom, speak to me of these stalls.....what kind of wood did she use? Pine, Oak? I assume pressure treated? Are they anchored to the wall at all? How often does she have to replace them? How does this floor syste hold up to a REALLY wet horse?
How far apart are the boards? Are they 2x4 boards or 6x1?

Really wondering about this now because our water table has come so far up with the rain that I have stalls getting wet from the ground....we have had THAT much rain this summer. I dug a test hole in the dirt hallway of my barn, only went down 7 inches and within an hour I had two inches of water in the hole....of course my hallway is higher than the stalls and is harder packed. I am wondering how this kind of stall system would work, it would definitely keep the floor more solid so it can't form low/sot spots.

SonnysMom
Sep. 11, 2012, 11:50 AM
Sonnysmom, speak to me of these stalls.....what kind of wood did she use? Pine, Oak? I assume pressure treated? Are they anchored to the wall at all? How often does she have to replace them? How does this floor syste hold up to a REALLY wet horse?
How far apart are the boards? Are they 2x4 boards or 6x1?

Really wondering about this now because our water table has come so far up with the rain that I have stalls getting wet from the ground....we have had THAT much rain this summer. I dug a test hole in the dirt hallway of my barn, only went down 7 inches and within an hour I had two inches of water in the hole....of course my hallway is higher than the stalls and is harder packed. I am wondering how this kind of stall system would work, it would definitely keep the floor more solid so it can't form low/sot spots.

I will check with the BO's husband. He is the builder. I know he has used a few versions and different spacing. There are a few barns and additions that were all built at different times so each has a slightly different installation.
I will also take some pictures.
As far as I know they have never had to replace the boards. The main barn is at least 10 years old. The smaller barn is older than that- maybe 20 years. There are a couple of spots in those stalls where the boards show some wear from pawing horses.

eaconlee
Sep. 16, 2012, 12:14 PM
I've had the stallsavers permeable fabric down now for about 9 years. Love that urine and water goes right through (they are put over 6" bed of gravel to ensure there is a place for the liquid to drain to). It doesn't offer any cushioning so that will be up to your bedding. Even my pawers haven't destroyed the fabric yet.