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Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:54 AM
So clearly we're gonna need a thread because 8pm London/UK (aka wherever the team is) is approaching in a few hours.

With just over 4 hours to go we're all waiting to see who will make it and who won't.

There was lots of speculation on the Barbury thread but now it's time to see who is the real deal and will be wearing the colors in London.

Will Karen make another team?

Will Arthur prove his detractors wrong?

Will Tiana's "left field" assignation to the short list prove to have been justified?

Will either Will find a "way?"

Will Boyd be able to bring the right horse for the course?

Will Phillip start bringing some of his Gold Medal past to the USA?

Can Clark prove that his consistency is back?

Can anyone explain to Neville that wind sucking is one thing, but leg hanging is quite another!!! ;)

Stay tuned for all these and more......


~Emily

shea'smom
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:56 AM
Did they say the announcement would be at 8? I need to go ride my horse and quit refreshing Eventing Nation then!

Debbie
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:59 AM
On Boyd's blog it said that the riders have been told to gather at 5:30 pm, so about 1.5 hours from now.

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:06 PM
Twizzle, Otis, Whisper, Medicott, Ringwood Magister!

Will on Twizzle

Boyd on Otis Barbierre

Karen on Mr. Medicott

Phillip on Mystery Whisper

and

Tiana on Ringwood Magister.

amastrike
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:08 PM
I wish Arthur had made it.

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:10 PM
Still waiting to hear about the alternates

(And wondering where Sinead is )

~Emily

RacetrackReject
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:11 PM
Not exactly how I saw it going down, but meh. Go USA!

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:15 PM
nvm.. Congrats to all!

Blugal
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:18 PM
OK, I'll say it. Phillip and Mystery Whisper have not completed a 4* together. Tiana hasn't either. And Sinead gets left off? I feel sorry for her.

Carried Away
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:19 PM
Where did the info come from?

EventerAJ
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:19 PM
Shocked at seeing Tiana instead of Sinead...but I guess we have to trust the selectors. Go USA!

yellowbritches
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:20 PM
Still waiting for an official press release (which I haven't seen yet) before I get too excited/dissappointed.

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:21 PM
Sinead should have made the team IMO

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:21 PM
Shocked at seeing Tiana instead of Sinead...but I guess we have to trust the selectors. Go USA!

Yup, I agree.

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:22 PM
Got it from Heather Morris posting on FB. She has gotten info from one of the selectors directly.

WOW... All of the other short listed riders are alternates and are unranked.


~Emily

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:23 PM
WOW... All of the other short listed riders are alternates and are unranked.


~Emily

How can they be unranked? That doesn't make sense.

joiedevie99
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:26 PM
http://www.usefnetwork.com/news/8821/2012/7/2/usef_names_2012_us_olympic_eventi.aspx

cuonxc
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:27 PM
http://eventingnation.com/home/team-usa-pending-usef-executive-committe-approval.html (http://eventingnation.com/home/team-usa-pending-usef-executive-committe-approval.html)

yellowbritches
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:28 PM
HJU just posted an "official press release" from USEF confirming this list.

If it's true, I can't believe they picked Tiana over Sinead.

Isabeau Z Solace
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:28 PM
OK, I'll say it. Phillip and Mystery Whisper have not completed a 4* together. Tiana hasn't either. And Sinead gets left off? I feel sorry for her.

Hmm.... The olympics is not 4*. Do I recall correctly that it ain't even 3* this time around, or is that the heat driving me batty ?

KateDB
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:28 PM
http://www.usefnetwork.com/news/8821/2012/7/2/usef_names_2012_us_olympic_eventi.aspx

What an odd way to write the press release....still including horses that didn't ship to England in the replacements list?!?

I think it's a strong team indeed....but it won't be a Gold Medal team, imo. Not enough strength in our dressage scores, despite it's NOT being a dressage competition.

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:29 PM
Here's the press release on the USEF site...


http://www.usefnetwork.com/news/8821/2012/7/2/usef_names_2012_us_olympic_eventi.aspx

~Emily

EventerAJ
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:29 PM
http://www.usefnetwork.com/news/8821/2012/7/2/usef_names_2012_us_olympic_eventi.aspx

They didn't do much to narrow down the alternates, did they? Listed everybody else who was nominated (remember there were 15 total pairs named to the Olympics). Even Buck is still on that "alternate" list.

Rather odd.

gorebels91
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:29 PM
This is quite a shame. Sinead has worked ever so hard, and in my opinion has had much more consistent results. Alas, she's not listed. Anywho, good luck to everyone listed. Go USA!

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:31 PM
Quote from Allison

"Sadly I did not make the team. I have been trying so hard for so very long and am gutted. I know there were many great horses to pick from and I think our team is a great one."

Kadenz
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:32 PM
Wow, I'm completely floored that Sinead and Tate aren't on that list. NOT what I expected!

Sweet Thing Eventing
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:33 PM
I am very disappointed and sad for Sinead and Tate :cry:

Gracious
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:35 PM
I am very dissapointed and sad for Sinead and Tate :cry:

Agreed...so sad for them. I think they truly deserve to be there.

Wish that we could watch Boyd & Neville rock around the Olympics, too, but I understand that decision.

Blugal
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:35 PM
Hmm.... The olympics is not 4*. Do I recall correctly that it ain't even 3* this time around, or is that the heat driving me batty ?

Officially, they are a 4*. Here is the wording from the FEI rulebook:


Article 540 OLYMPIC GAMES
Every four years, Eventing in the Olympic Games will be organised under
the patronage of the International Olympic Committee (IOC). The Olympic
Three Day Event is for Seniors. It will be conducted at the Four Star level in
accordance with the “Special Regulations for Equestrian Events at the
Olympic Games”.

Usually, the XC has been of 3* difficulty. However, those who attended the Olympic test event at Greenwich (run as a 2*) said it was going to be a very demanding XC. As in, lots of hills, twists and turns, very close roping, tons of crowds, very claustrophobic. I (and many others) read this to mean that an experienced and reliable XC horse would be an absolute requirement for this course.

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:40 PM
Ok looking logically at the "replacement" list we know a couple things...

1.) Any horse that didn't travel to Europe is not as likely to be a true "replacement"

2.) Neville's odd dump of Boyd is likely still not as much of a detriment as Arthur's historic spooks. So it's possible that the players are ranked, just not announced publically.

3.) You're not going to call up the first person listed alphabetically to replace an injured horse.

So with all that said.... (And this being the perfect land for PURE speculation) I'd bet the rank of alternates is closer to this:

1.) Sinead
2.) Remington/Neville (too close for me to call)
3.) Will and Andromaque
4.) Clark

If we get beyond 4 Alternates.... ala Sydney's run up...... then yes we might see Reggie and Buck!!!

~Emily

IFG
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:41 PM
The Wildasins have two horses on the list. Pretty impressive.

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:41 PM
I can't imagine what Sinead is thinking right now. I feel so bad for her, Meg and Tate. I would love to hear the reasoning as to why they were not named.

Wordplay1832
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:41 PM
very sad for Sinead and Allison-hoped at least one of them would be on there. Actually pretty shocked about Sinead as they are quite consistent.

I guess it is hard to pass too much judgement as they have access to vet results and everything else that we can only speculate on. I think the people that will go will be great. It is such a double edged sword to have that many great riders and horses to pick from, any one of them on the short list deserved to go and could have done a great job!

snoopy
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:43 PM
Officially, they are a 4*. Here is the wording from the FEI rulebook:



Usually, the XC has been of 3* difficulty.

ONLY the last two OG's have been of 3 star standard. That happened when the format changed in Athens. Before then, very much four star...VERY much.

You can count on Sue to design a 3 1/2 star competition.

VicariousRider
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:44 PM
There must be some explanation for Tate's absence. That's just too weird...

Also, I'm not sure that Neville has been on top of his game recently and he and Remi have had soundness issues in the past (whether or not that's an issue now who knows). That said, Otis frightened me running x-c at Rolex. I need to go find some more recent videos because he was hell bent for leather in Kentucky and it looked dangerous to me. Maybe there is a video of them at Bromont and/or Barbury that shows that this is no longer an issue?

I am also really thrilled for Will and Twizzel. He is one of the most refined and skilled riders we have, IMHO and I hope everything comes together for them in London because they are very good.

Also... I think any fan of US upper level eventing should thanks the Wildasins - they Twizzel AND Mystery Whisper, No????

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:46 PM
ONLY the last two OG's have been of 3 star standard. That happened when the format changed in Athens. Before then, very much four star...VERY much.

You can count on Sue to design a 3 1/2 star competition.

The Atlanta games were not a true 4* by any stretch of the imagination.

The individual track was lucky if it was a mediocre 3* and the team track if you took ALL the options was a stiff 2*. Straight routes were enough to call it a 3.25*...maybe.

What made Atlanta tough was the terrain and how you got to and away from the jumps. The efforts themselves were not of a 3/4* variety.

~Emily

breakthru
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:47 PM
Count me in for being very disappointed not to see Sinead on the list too! :(

snoopy
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:47 PM
The Atlanta games were not a true 4* by any stretch of the imagination.

The individual track was lucky if it was a mediocre 3* and the team track if you took ALL the options was a stiff 2*. Straight routes were enough to call it a 3.25*...maybe.

What made Atlanta tough was the terrain and how you got to and away from the jumps. The efforts themselves were not of a 3/4* variety.

~Emily


We will have to disagree.

EventerAJ
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:52 PM
Ok looking logically at the "replacement" list we know a couple things...

1.) Any horse that didn't travel to Europe is not as likely to be a true "replacement"

2.) Neville's odd dump of Boyd is likely still not as much of a detriment as Arthur's historic spooks. So it's possible that the players are ranked, just not announced publically.

3.) You're not going to call up the first person listed alphabetically to replace an injured horse.

So with all that said.... (And this being the perfect land for PURE speculation) I'd bet the rank of alternates is closer to this:

1.) Sinead
2.) Remington/Neville (too close for me to call)
3.) Will and Andromaque
4.) Clark

If we get beyond 4 Alternates.... ala Sydney's run up...... then yes we might see Reggie and Buck!!!

~Emily

Agree. Except that I think Remington/Neville are sort of "unranked" in the sense that they are 100% backups for Otis. If Otis gets hurt, I bet either of them makes the team before Sinead and Tate.

I do think there is a ranking...but they are choosing not to tell us. Perhaps because that ranking could be dependent on the next couple weeks, how horses progress from this past weekend.

eventer2012
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:53 PM
I will start my reply with the precursor that I am not bashing anyone left on or off the team, but am going to give you my opinion on why Sinead was left off and Tiana was put on...

So, first, remember that in the Olympic format, 5 riders are picked, and 3 scores count. The selectors want to pick 3 riders that are pretty much guaranteed to make it around without any problems. In the case with the team picked, 4 of these riders fit the bill: PD, BM, KOC and Will.

PD should make it around clean, assuming there are no silly issues. He could also potentially win with Mystery Whisper, assuming he goes pretty quick cross country.

Will Coleman is a very intelligent pick. Twizzel is very experienced at the 3 and 4 star level and assuming he is sound, he is a great choice for the team, with very consistent dressage, usually clear sj, and has proven he can make the time (at Rolex this year).

Boyd is also a clear choice, and after Rolex this year, Otis is the better option over Neville, especially in the Olympic format with the 2 show jumping rounds. While greener in the dressage, he has the capability to score better, as he did at Barbury, and can make the time xc, which he proved at Rolex. He is almost guaranteed to show jump better than Neville, so I am sure that was taken into consideration as well.

Karen is an interesting choice, because Mr. M is definitely reliable in the show jumping, and the dressage has overall been improving all year. I have watched the horse from Florida all the way through Rolex, and the partnership is definitely improving. The xc is the biggest issue in my mind, bc Mr. M is very strong and Karen would admit any day of the week that she has always struggled with taking too many half halts on xc and therefore having time faults. The time faults on xc are a risk, but Karen's experience overshadows this, at least in the selectors' minds. (in my opinion) Plus, it's her last chance for an Olympics...

Tiana is the interesting choice, but honestly makes sense to me, as much as I would have liked to see Sinead on the team. Because the other 4 pairs are pretty consistent (with the exception of Mr. M and time faults) the selectors wanted to put one pair on the team that was risky, but could potentially win it all. Tiana embodies this while Sinead would have been another consistent, but not amazing pair. Tiana has completed 4 CCI 3*s since October 2010, and only the last one, Samur, did she have a stop at. At Boekelo, she finished 6th, she won Jersey, 2nd at Blenheim, and had a silly run out at Samur this spring. I watched it on the live feed, and she was jumping an angled left to right long 2 stride combination and jumped in quietly and didn't kick hard enough for the out. She went on to jump the hardest combination at the end of the course cleanly, where multiple good riders had stops or eliminations. Tiana could win the dressage, go clear in the show jumping, and potentially medal if the xc goes well. Because we have 4 other good pairs, and only 3 scores count, the selectors decided she is a good risk.

If we put Sinead on the team, we will get a decent dressage, a clear xc with a little bit of time (assuming this because she did not make time at Rolex or Burghley) and she may have 1 or 2 rails or jump clear. (Going off her previous results, she tends to jump better on prepared footing, but Tate is a bit unorthodox in his style...) While Sinead is consistent, she is not the "risk factor" that the selectors were looking for when they selected Tiana.

Though many will think Allison deserves a spot on the team, I think Tiana is the better pick because she has been competing in England for the last year. Arthur's track record is not superb overseas, and 2 of Tiana's great CCI 3* finishes were overseas, while Arthur has never completed a CCI overseas without some sort of xc penalty. (correct me if I am wrong on that...)

Clark and Will F will be on a team in the future for sure...I am sure the selectors were concerned about Glen's fitness, especially for Greenwich with the massive hill. Will F would have had a better shot if he had gone clean at Rolex, but alas, there is always 2014!

These are all my opinions, feel free to shoot them down. The selectors had a very tough job, and let's rally behind the team 100%!

Carried Away
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:53 PM
So bummed for Sinead & Tate :( I think it's a great team but would have loved to see them on it!

Now it's time to get behind the team and root for USA!!!

Leprechaun
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:54 PM
Is it possible that something odd showed up in Tate's vetting today? I was shocked.

vineyridge
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:54 PM
THE OLYMPICS ARE A 4*. Read the Rules.

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 02:54 PM
Quote from Sinead

"Slightly shocked so sad for all that have been supporting us . Tate is healthy and happy.Going to get to Gatcombe this coming weekend"

:(

Blugal
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:00 PM
I had a slight niggling wonder when I read her last blog on COTH (http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/decisions-determine-your-destiny%E2%80%A6-no-pressure). Had she done enough to ensure her place on the team? She was being told "do what you think is best" by Mark... but I wondered if that was really going to be what would get her on the team.

That is all complete conjecture, and if I were her I would be so very disappointed. She was basically treated like she would make the team until the last moment. Was she supposed to have run Rolex? Badminton, which wouldn't have worked out anyway? Concentrated on winning a CIC3*? Stayed in England after Burghley?

Leprechaun
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:00 PM
Wowza, so sad for Sinead. No offense in anyway to Tiana, as I think she has a huge future & lovely horse, but I'm afraid they are too inexperienced for that environment. Crossing my fingers!

vineyridge
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:01 PM
If I were going to take a risk, I'd take Clark M and Loughan Glen. They have a much better record overall than Ringwood Magister, and since neither has actually finished a 4* . . .

What I really hate about horse sports is that there is usually one shot at the BIG Time for most horses, and then they break.

Kadenz
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:04 PM
...if I were her I would be so very disappointed. She was basically treated like she would make the team until the last moment. Was she supposed to have run Rolex? Badminton, which wouldn't have worked out anyway? Concentrated on winning a CIC3*? Stayed in England after Burghley?

I agree completely. My mouth hung open for several seconds when my brain finally comprehended that she wasn't on that list. It's a good team, don't get me wrong, but wow...

JFCeventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:06 PM
Hmm.... The olympics is not 4*. Do I recall correctly that it ain't even 3* this time around, or is that the heat driving me batty ?

Okay, I really can't stand when people say this. One, it is a four star. Or even if its not, its harder than a three star. Secondly, even if it is a 3*, wouldn't you rather have pairs that are overqualified and have done well at four stars, rather than someone who has just done three stars? Its the freakin Olympics, it doesn't get bigger than that. So if you want to win, you send your best pairs.


That said, Otis frightened me running x-c at Rolex. I need to go find some more recent videos because he was hell bent for leather in Kentucky and it looked dangerous to me. Maybe there is a video of them at Bromont and/or Barbury that shows that this is no longer an issue?

Where at Rolex did you see Otis go? I saw him over the brush tables (10 and 11), the sunken road, ditch and brush, and the stepped table in person, and saw the rest on the Jumbotron feed and he didn't ever appear to me to be out of control. JMHO of course.


Tiana has completed 4 CCI 3*s since October 2010, and only the last one, Samur, did she have a stop at. At Boekelo, she finished 6th, she won Jersey, 2nd at Blenheim, and had a silly run out at Samur this spring. I watched it on the live feed, and she was jumping an angled left to right long 2 stride combination and jumped in quietly and didn't kick hard enough for the out. She went on to jump the hardest combination at the end of the course cleanly, where multiple good riders had stops or eliminations.

(Bold is mine.) Yes but a silly stop is still a stop and still 20 penalties. I still think Sinead should be on there before her. Maybe if she had completed Rolex back in 2011 my opinion would be different, but she didn't.


Quote from Sinead

"Slightly shocked so sad for all that have been supporting us . Tate is healthy and happy.Going to get to Gatcombe this coming weekend"

:(

Ugh that is so sad. I also feel like her saying he is happy and healthy is kind of code for they didn't find anything wrong in the vet evals. Interesting.

JP60
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:07 PM
The 2012 US Olympic Eventing Team in Alphabetical Order:

Will Coleman (Gordonsville, VA) and Jim Wildasin's Twizzel
Tiana Coudray (Ojai, CA) and the Jatial, Inc.'s Ringwood Magister
Phillip Dutton (West Grove, PA) and Jim and Arden Wildasin's Mystery Whisper
Boyd Martin (Cochranville, PA) and the Otis Barbotiere Syndicate's Otis Barbotiere
Karen O'Connor (Ocala, FL) and the Mr. Medicott Syndicate's Mr. Medicott
This was not my Olympics for picking favorites. One got the bum shrift because of color (bum rap Teddy), the second and third I cannot understand for one pair had the heart and drive to excel (Allison), the other was just plain that good (Sinead). With a name like Otis, I just gotta cheer Boyd on; Otis is a fine name to be announced for the top of the podium.:cool:

I want to cheer for Team USA, and I will (kinda), but in truth I cannot find the same connection. So its about winning, so its about gold....meh!

Individually I have the utmost respect for the five, but as a team for the USA, I don't feel the heart, the passion, the soul that represents the roots of this country. Our team represents modern America, but does little to inspire me.:(

All the best to our five and to all competitors. May you all have good, safe rides.

(as an aside, since my SO is Austrian/Swede I will be cheering loudly for the one Austrian entry. He has a snowball's chance in South Carolina to come close, but in an alternate reality I see a come from behind push to finish second behind Sinead who replaced a last minute withdrawl and carries the US team to one point ahead of Great Britain. Unfortunately the Canadian's take top honors for Peter Barry's amazing performance in dressage and SJ. he carries a resergance of amateur involvement back into eventing inspiring new ranks of adult amateurs to Go Eventing!! :lol: )

Catie79
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:12 PM
Ugh that is so sad. I also feel like her saying he is happy and healthy is kind of code for they didn't find anything wrong in the vet evals. Interesting.

I was wondering about that, too.

I have to say that I was thrilled to see Will and Tiana getting to go. BM, PD, and KOC were all going to go one way or another. Yes, it's sad that some pairs don't get to go this year, but I like the combination of steady and risky the selectors picked.

RacetrackReject
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:13 PM
This was not my Olympics for picking favorites. One got the bum shrift because of color (bum rap Teddy), the second and third I cannot understand for one pair had the heart and drive to excel (Allison), the other was just plain that good (Sinead). With a name like Otis, I just gotta cheer Boyd on; Otis is a fine name to be announced for the top of the podium.:cool:

I want to cheer for Team USA, and I will (kinda), but in truth I cannot find the same connection. So its about winning, so its about gold....meh!

Individually I have the utmost respect for the five, but as a team for the USA, I don't feel the heart, the passion, the soul that represents the roots of this country. Our team represents modern America, but does little to inspire me.:(

All the best to our five and to all competitors. May you all have good, safe rides.

(as an aside, since my SO is Austrian/Swede I will be cheering loudly for the one Austrian entry. He has a snowball's chance in South Carolina to come close, but in an alternate reality I see a come from behind push to finish second behind Sinead who replaced a last minute withdrawl and carries the US team to one point ahead of Great Britain. Unfortunately the Canadian's take top honors for Peter Barry's amazing performance in dressage and SJ. he carries a resergance of amateur involvement back into eventing inspiring new ranks of adult amateurs to Go Eventing!! :lol: )

I like the way you think. =)

eventer2012
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:19 PM
(Bold is mine.) Yes but a silly stop is still a stop and still 20 penalties. I still think Sinead should be on there before her. Maybe if she had completed Rolex back in 2011 my opinion would be different, but she didn't.





Yes, but Tiana is much more experienced now than Rolex 2011 with two more CCI 3*s overseas. Also, if you read my entire analysis, you would see that the selectors were looking for a risk/reward pair for the final spot, and Sinead does not embody that. She is very reliable and consistent, but not amazing enough to win. Looking at Sinead versus Tiana for the 5th and final team spot, it made more sense to pick Tiana. Would I have picked Sinead over Karen? Possibly, because Sinead could potentially go faster than Mr. M...but alas, the selectors didn't ask my opinion. ;)

bornfreenowexpensive
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:25 PM
I will start my reply with the precursor that I am not bashing anyone left on or off the team, but am going to give you my opinion on why Sinead was left off and Tiana was put on...

So, first, remember that in the Olympic format, 5 riders are picked, and 3 scores count. The selectors want to pick 3 riders that are pretty much guaranteed to make it around without any problems. In the case with the team picked, 4 of these riders fit the bill: PD, BM, KOC and Will.

PD should make it around clean, assuming there are no silly issues. He could also potentially win with Mystery Whisper, assuming he goes pretty quick cross country.

Will Coleman is a very intelligent pick. Twizzel is very experienced at the 3 and 4 star level and assuming he is sound, he is a great choice for the team, with very consistent dressage, usually clear sj, and has proven he can make the time (at Rolex this year).

Boyd is also a clear choice, and after Rolex this year, Otis is the better option over Neville, especially in the Olympic format with the 2 show jumping rounds. While greener in the dressage, he has the capability to score better, as he did at Barbury, and can make the time xc, which he proved at Rolex. He is almost guaranteed to show jump better than Neville, so I am sure that was taken into consideration as well.

Karen is an interesting choice, because Mr. M is definitely reliable in the show jumping, and the dressage has overall been improving all year. I have watched the horse from Florida all the way through Rolex, and the partnership is definitely improving. The xc is the biggest issue in my mind, bc Mr. M is very strong and Karen would admit any day of the week that she has always struggled with taking too many half halts on xc and therefore having time faults. The time faults on xc are a risk, but Karen's experience overshadows this, at least in the selectors' minds. (in my opinion) Plus, it's her last chance for an Olympics...

Tiana is the interesting choice, but honestly makes sense to me, as much as I would have liked to see Sinead on the team. Because the other 4 pairs are pretty consistent (with the exception of Mr. M and time faults) the selectors wanted to put one pair on the team that was risky, but could potentially win it all. Tiana embodies this while Sinead would have been another consistent, but not amazing pair. Tiana has completed 4 CCI 3*s since October 2010, and only the last one, Samur, did she have a stop at. At Boekelo, she finished 6th, she won Jersey, 2nd at Blenheim, and had a silly run out at Samur this spring. I watched it on the live feed, and she was jumping an angled left to right long 2 stride combination and jumped in quietly and didn't kick hard enough for the out. She went on to jump the hardest combination at the end of the course cleanly, where multiple good riders had stops or eliminations. Tiana could win the dressage, go clear in the show jumping, and potentially medal if the xc goes well. Because we have 4 other good pairs, and only 3 scores count, the selectors decided she is a good risk.

If we put Sinead on the team, we will get a decent dressage, a clear xc with a little bit of time (assuming this because she did not make time at Rolex or Burghley) and she may have 1 or 2 rails or jump clear. (Going off her previous results, she tends to jump better on prepared footing, but Tate is a bit unorthodox in his style...) While Sinead is consistent, she is not the "risk factor" that the selectors were looking for when they selected Tiana.

Though many will think Allison deserves a spot on the team, I think Tiana is the better pick because she has been competing in England for the last year. Arthur's track record is not superb overseas, and 2 of Tiana's great CCI 3* finishes were overseas, while Arthur has never completed a CCI overseas without some sort of xc penalty. (correct me if I am wrong on that...)

Clark and Will F will be on a team in the future for sure...I am sure the selectors were concerned about Glen's fitness, especially for Greenwich with the massive hill. Will F would have had a better shot if he had gone clean at Rolex, but alas, there is always 2014!

These are all my opinions, feel free to shoot them down. The selectors had a very tough job, and let's rally behind the team 100%!


I actually agree with the above.

It is a strong team and they have some good back ups who will also get some good experience over there now for 2014.

I think the back up are not ranked or named because it likely depends on the rider/horse they lose who they call up.

vineyridge
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:25 PM
Do you think geography might have played a role in the selections? I noticed that they have KOC from Ocala, when she is mostly from VA. They make it look much less Mid-Atlantic the way they have announced the choices.

Isabeau Z Solace
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:26 PM
Okay, I really can't stand when people say this. One, it is a four star. Or even if its not, its harder than a three star. Secondly, even if it is a 3*, wouldn't you rather have pairs that are overqualified and have done well at four stars, rather than someone who has just done three stars? Its the freakin Olympics, it doesn't get bigger than that. So if you want to win, you send your best pairs.


Well to be completely honest what I want is truth and accuracy. NOT for it to be 'technically' a 4* but with a 3.25* star course that they call a 4* because the rules say the 'have to.'

My understanding, is that for this sport to by an Olympic sport, they have to try to do what they can to make sure that folks participating who are not from the typical equestrian power house nations, do not cross the finish line dead.

They CANNOT make it a Burley or Badminton level course because the second tier participant nations would not be able to field teams. OR... they would have a hard time fielding teams that would make it through xcountry. So... in order to make sure that
1) Eventing keeps it's place in the Games
2) no one dies.....

They 'trim' the difficulty level of xcountry.

I'll point out the little snafu the dressage folks had in FL this winter when they 'reclassified' a certain dressage competition. They had to because several of the folks in the class weren't, actually, technically qualified to be in the class. So they, um, err, just changed things around so the paperwork worked out.

Trak_Eventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:27 PM
I want to hear a reason Sinead is not on the team. Unbelievable. I think Twizzle is a slight risk on the team. Now we have two risks. Shaking my head...:no:

bornfreenowexpensive
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:27 PM
Do you think geography might have played a role in the selections? I noticed that they have KOC from Ocala, when she is mostly from VA. They make it look much less Mid-Atlantic the way they have announced the choices.

I highly suspect that Karen tells the IRS her resident state is Florida...and thus saying she is from Florida makes sense.

IFG
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:30 PM
Did it appear as though Neville and Tate peaked too early. They were both awesome last year, but they both seemed to fizzle this year. Maybe Boyd and Sinead were following hints from the team that these horses were shoo-ins and didn't do much prep, but IMHO, the lead up left them both a bit flat-footed at the end.

JFCeventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:32 PM
Well to be completely honest what I want is truth and accuracy. NOT for it to be 'technically' a 4* but with a 3.25* star course that they call a 4* because the rules say the 'have to.'

My understanding, is that for this sport to by an Olympic sport, they have to try to do what they can to make sure that folks participating who are not from the typical equestrian power house nations, do not cross the finish line dead.

They CANNOT make it a Burley or Badminton level course because the second tier participant nations would not be able to field teams. OR... they would have a hard time fielding teams that would make it through xcountry. So... in order to make sure that
1) Eventing keeps it's place in the Games
2) no one dies.....

They 'trim' the difficulty level of xcountry.

I'll point out the little snafu the dressage folks had in FL this winter when they 'reclassified' a certain dressage competition. They had to because several of the folks in the class weren't, actually, technically qualified to be in the class. So they, um, err, just changed things around so the paperwork worked out.

I agree that it can't be a Badminton or Burghley for the other nations that don't have the experience, but that is why they have options for pretty much every combination. The straight routes are harder than a normal 3*.

vineyridge
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:32 PM
I think this is just WRONG. The course itself will have both 4* options and lesser options for horses that can't do the 4*. That doesn't make it a lesser course, since the winners will be those who can do the 4* (faster) options. The Brits are very good at 4*s, much better than most of the rest of the world, and you can be sure that they will optimize their chances with the course.


Well to be completely honest what I want is truth and accuracy. NOT for it to be 'technically' a 4* but with a 3.25* star course that they call a 4* because the rules say the 'have to.'

My understanding, is that for this sport to by an Olympic sport, they have to try to do what they can to make sure that folks participating who are not from the typical equestrian power house nations, do not cross the finish line dead.

They CANNOT make it a Burley or Badminton level course because the second tier participant nations would not be able to field teams. OR... they would have a hard time fielding teams that would make it through xcountry. So... in order to make sure that
1) Eventing keeps it's place in the Games
2) no one dies.....

They 'trim' the difficulty level of xcountry.

I'll point out the little snafu the dressage folks had in FL this winter when they 'reclassified' a certain dressage competition. They had to because several of the folks in the class weren't, actually, technically qualified to be in the class. So they, um, err, just changed things around so the paperwork worked out.

BestHorses
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:38 PM
I'm disappointed for Sinead and Tate. I really wanted to see them shine at the Olympics!

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:40 PM
But Viney she is right.

Part of the course designer's job is to as best as humanly possible, not build something that a second tier nation rider would kill themselves or their horse on.

There was a lot of discussion about this in sydney.

~Emily

ponysize
Jul. 2, 2012, 03:43 PM
I don't see this team in the gold medal picture.

Debbie
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:02 PM
Is there another combo of US riders that you would see on top of the podium? I think we can medal, but gold was always a reach.

As everyone else, I'm shocked that Sinead is not on the list, but I think it's a strong team and I can't wait to see them go. Hope Tate takes Normandy by storm in 2014.

eventer2012
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:08 PM
I agree with Debbie, I don't think there is another combo that could give us a gold medal. Between the Brits, Kiwis, and Germans, we are going to have to work hard to get on the podium at all. A gold is nearly impossible...For us to get the gold, Tiana, Phillip, and Boyd would have to all finish on their very low dressage scores...(nothing against Will or Karen, just thinking that Tiana, Phillip and Boyd have the best chance of scoring super low...)

mcw
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:10 PM
I actually like this team. I too was surprised about Sinead being left off and assumed something must have come up in the vetting. Too bad for her that last year wasn't an Olympic year.

I really like Twizzel, and he and Will have gotten the job done overseas in the past. I think this was a good pick.

I am also glad that they picked Tiana over Allison as the gamble. I was very impressed with the way she packed up, went to England, and very quietly went to work fixing her confidence and xc issues.

Boyd, Phillip, and Karen were no-brainers. At the beginning of the year I may have questioned Karen and Mr. M's partnership, but it seems to be going well. He is such a good xc horse with a lot of experience in Europe. Makes sense. And I think Phillip and MW could win it.

VicariousRider
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:13 PM
Where at Rolex did you see Otis go? I saw him over the brush tables (10 and 11), the sunken road, ditch and brush, and the stepped table in person, and saw the rest on the Jumbotron feed and he didn't ever appear to me to be out of control. JMHO of course.


I suppose we probably just disagree. I just re-watched the video here (http://www.usefnetwork.com/featured/Rolex3Day2012) (it's the most comprehensive one I could find of their round). They look fine until after the HOTL. The horse looks strong but manageable. But after that point things really look like they start to unravel and they have some VERY lucky moments. Boyd appears to fight him all the way home (and earlier in the course for that matter). It was the end of the course that really made me uncomfortable, though. The horse looks fired up but tired enough to be making errors and losing footing, etc.

Again - that's my opinion. I think the other two horses that Boyd has are so seasoned and proven but Boyd could probably ride a cart horse around the x-c and get it done. I'm sure he will do bloody well with Otis.

snoopy
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:14 PM
But Viney she is right.

Part of the course designer's job is to as best as humanly possible, not build something that a second tier nation rider would kill themselves or their horse on.

There was a lot of discussion about this in sydney.

~Emily


...and why there was a team and individual course. The individual being softer. It was noted that most of the teams sent were from four star nations and those that did not field a team (for what ever reason) had a softer course. The challenge and change in 2004 was to incorporate both elements on one course. 2004 was not an olympic standard course in where the direct routes were involved. You could have found that course at Radnor back in the day. Sadly, IMO, it set a precedent for the following OG's and also fosters the current thought process that the OG's are a dumbed down version. The were not like this until this point. The very fact is that they are designated CCIO4* and as such, a course designer has every licence to design such a course. The challenge is to test the best, but allow those who may be low on 4* the chance to get round. The direct route (and fasted route) should be of a standard befitting top level sport. The options should be softer (and more time consuming) to allow for both an alternate route if one has a woopsie and to allow those who may find that the need to take most of the alternate routes to get round.....though I find this a bit annoying. It is another instance where the sport has altered it's format and degree of difficulty to warrant OG inclusion. Most other sports and athletes at the OG's are at the pinnacle of their sport. Even within the equestrian disciplines....the SJ and dressage are contested at maximum difficulty....not eventing (and for all the wrong reasons).

JP60
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:14 PM
I know this is a bit off topic, but from the Telegraph I found a great set of pages that talk about the Olympics from the GB view point. This little ditty caught my eye:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/7904559/London-2012-Olympics-equestrian-guide.html



Brits to watch?

William Fox-Pitt, Mary King, Zara Phillips, Laura Bechtolsheimer.
Biggest international rivals?

Edward Gal (Netherlands), Marcus Ehning (Germany), Kevin Staut (France).

Okay, I get the Brit's to watch thing (pretty much all eventing as they have the best chance for medals), but the International rivals...I'm sorry, but I had to laugh that there was not one US name on that list :eek:. Now as I remember, the US was/is considered international to Great Britain ever since we ended that little conflict in our favor a couple hundred years ago.

So, from the Brit's (Telegraph) viewpoint not one of the US eventing riders is even on the radar to challenge the might of the Queen's best....Cheeky devils.:sadsmile:

Regarding the course, I find it interesting the idea that a course designer would make options for the "2nd" tier as if that was their course, and the really really good riders get a different one. Perhaps there should be two tiers of medals :confused: In swimming there is but one pool, in track and field, one track, and gymnastics, one pad. I think we do disservice to all riders to make a statement of tiers. Yes, if this was a true 4* then perhaps all countries could not compete, but then drop eventing from the Olympics for it does not reflect the spirit/intent of the games. To call it a 4* in the rules, but design it to be what, a soft 4* so some wont die is disassembling the rules. The course should be such that all riders can run a straight course and not be "guided" to an option just because their country does not promote a 4* competition. The Jamaican bob sled team did not have an "option", they had to go down the same track as the US or Germans. They did, and that made them equals in the attempt.

for me, this is just another reason that other then watching a good eventing show, Olympic Eventing is more Pomp, less Circumstance.

Aspen70
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:25 PM
Just really disappointed for Sinead and Tate. They are a quality pair that have excelled through the last few years. Wishing them all the best in their future together and I know it will continue to be an exciting partnership to watch.

RiverBendPol
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:25 PM
I'm devastated for Sinead. She has worked her buns off to get where she is today. She and Tate have a once-in-a-lifetime relationship and that won't be there in 2016. Bummed OUT.

fordtraktor
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:30 PM
There's so much about that Telegraph rival list that's ridiculous, JP60. Edward Gal and Marcus Ehning are not WFP, Mary King, or Zara's rivals unless there's been more sport-switching than I knew!!!!!

Congrats to all the Team members, go Team USA!

mjedge808
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:32 PM
It's not like the selectors pulled the names out of a hat. Yes, Sinead and Tate have been doing very well. But that's not to say others haven't either. The alternate list is a Who's Who of U.S. eventing top competitors, so this was not a simple choice. For the first time in a long time, it looks like the US team is peaking at the right moment. How many times in the past three years have we all looked at the US choices and frowned when thinking of the London games? Now we have a fighting chance. This will be one hell of a competition, with Britain the team to beat and the Kiwis right behind them. Michael Jung and the Germans are right there, too but so are we.

I wouldn't have wanted to make those choices, but I don't see any glaringly poor choices for the U.S. team. I'm excited that the selectors have finally chosen some younger competitors and not only the "old guard". For years, USEF has been saying they want new blood on the scene and then would only choose people with 4 Olympic Games under their belts to make the teams. They are taking a chance on Tiana, as she has less experience than some others, but she's been doing well in England and I hope for the best for her.

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 04:45 PM
...and why there was a team and individual course. The individual being softer. It was noted that most of the teams sent were from four star nations and those that did not field a team (for what ever reason) had a softer course. The challenge and change in 2004 was to incorporate both elements on one course. 2004 was not an olympic standard course in where the direct routes were involved. You could have found that course at Radnor back in the day. Sadly, IMO, it set a precedent for the following OG's and also fosters the current thought process that the OG's are a dumbed down version. The were not like this until this point. The very fact is that they are designated CCIO4* and as such, a course designer has every licence to design such a course. The challenge is to test the best, but allow those who may be low on 4* the chance to get round. The direct route (and fasted route) should be of a standard befitting top level sport. The options should be softer (and more time consuming) to allow for both an alternate route if one has a woopsie and to allow those who may find that the need to take most of the alternate routes to get round.....though I find this a bit annoying. It is another instance where the sport has altered it's format and degree of difficulty to warrant OG inclusion. Most other sports and athletes at the OG's are at the pinnacle of their sport. Even within the equestrian disciplines....the SJ and dressage are contested at maximum difficulty....not eventing (and for all the wrong reasons).


Everything of what you have said is why when we looked at the looming possibility of losing a spot in the Olympics (circa 2002 I think?) I was for it.

Leave Eventing to it's own Championships... ala WEG.

I would have much preferred staying true to the sport and not conforming to the IOC.

And why I much prefer watching the WEG Eventing. THAT is absolutely a 4* course.

~Emily

BAC
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:07 PM
The Atlanta games were not a true 4* by any stretch of the imagination.

The individual track was lucky if it was a mediocre 3* and the team track if you took ALL the options was a stiff 2*. Straight routes were enough to call it a 3.25*...maybe.

What made Atlanta tough was the terrain and how you got to and away from the jumps. The efforts themselves were not of a 3/4* variety.

~Emily

I seem to remember that there was great concern about the potential for extreme heat during the Atlanta games, and I believe they took that into consideration when designing the course for that event. I do remember there was lots of testing done beforehand to insure the best possible conditions for the horses.

At any rate, after reading everyone's opinions on this thread, you have all convinced me that this is the best team the US can assemble at this time. I'm rooting for the Brits anyway. ;)

OverandOnward
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:15 PM
Shocked at seeing Tiana instead of Sinead...but I guess we have to trust the selectors. Go USA!
Sinead and/or Tate must be sick, injured or dead ... that's the only way I can possibly understand that choice. Even though Tiana & RM are wonderful competitors.

For me that is my reaction assuming the xc will follow the 2008 format, where speed counts more than dressage, or if it follows any other format.

I would much rather have seen Boyd on Neville, but I don't know if there is a circumstance that is moving toward Otis instead.

starfish
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:23 PM
Shocked at seeing Tiana instead of Sinead...but I guess we have to trust the selectors. Go USA!

I don't view it as "Tiana instead of Sinead", at all. It was Will Coleman over Sinead, and Tiana over Allison (and maybe Clark). It's very clear to me that withi two drops scores, they wanted 3 solid picks that are experienced competitors at that leven - Boyd, Karen and PD - as well as a good backup solid horse - Will or Sinead - and a wild card - Allison or Tiana with Clark as a consideration.

I was rooting for Sinead too, but the selectors opted for Will.

snoopy
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:24 PM
Everything of what you have said is why when we looked at the looming possibility of losing a spot in the Olympics (circa 2002 I think?) I was for it.

Leave Eventing to it's own Championships... ala WEG.

I would have much preferred staying true to the sport and not conforming to the IOC.

And why I much prefer watching the WEG Eventing. THAT is absolutely a 4* course.

~Emily


Amen Sista!

OverandOnward
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:31 PM
I had a slight niggling wonder when I read her last blog on COTH (http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/decisions-determine-your-destiny%E2%80%A6-no-pressure). Had she done enough to ensure her place on the team? She was being told "do what you think is best" by Mark... but I wondered if that was really going to be what would get her on the team.

That is all complete conjecture, and if I were her I would be so very disappointed. She was basically treated like she would make the team until the last moment. Was she supposed to have run Rolex? Badminton, which wouldn't have worked out anyway? Concentrated on winning a CIC3*? Stayed in England after Burghley?
I read the blog, with all the indirect, non-specific feedback she got from Mark. As I read it, she was asking for the magic wand "you are on the team so long as you do thus-and-so." He was responding that he wasn't picking a team until it was time to turn in the final list. So he wasn't going to tell her what to do and have it sound like that was the magic answer to team-dom. Nor was he going to tell her what to do, and have someone saying "but I did what you said!" And he also wasn't going to tell her he knew better than she did how to manage her horse.

If that makes sense. So I think all those conversations are water under the bridge re team picking.

Nonetheless -- what I don't understand with a Sinead-less team is that, strictly in my own insignificant opinion, she would have been a better choice than Tiana. Regardless of where she was living and competing in the run up - none of that stuff matters.

What we don't know is what everyone's form looks like right this minute in England. We know something about their experience (not every niggly detail,) and what I'm aware of is what my opinion is based on. But maybe if I saw them gallop, saw them jump, saw them dressage school, TODAY, I would see why some were chosen over others.

OverandOnward
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:35 PM
I don't view it as "Tiana instead of Sinead", at all. It was Will Coleman over Sinead, and Tiana over Allison (and maybe Clark). It's very clear to me that withi two drops scores, they wanted 3 solid picks that are experienced competitors at that leven - Boyd, Karen and PD - as well as a good backup solid horse - Will or Sinead - and a wild card - Allison or Tiana with Clark as a consideration.

I was rooting for Sinead too, but the selectors opted for Will.
I would have picked Will AND Sinead.

My team would be PD, Boyd, Karen, Sinead and Will. First back-ups would be Allison or Clark, depending on what brain-vibes I thought Arthur was emanating. :)

But ... I'm not there, and I don't have any prior experience as the Olympic eventing coach. ;) :cool:

At this Olympics my strategy would be to prioritize getting a team medal. At the last one I didn't think that was realistic with the team that went, and I would have prioritized getting one of the individuals on the medal stand. And that's how it worked out, in the end.

SnicklefritzG
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:37 PM
really surprised that Sinead was not selected. What a bummer

NCRider
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:41 PM
I will admit to being a little disappointed in this list as it really does represent where the sport is today and that's not a very inspired place. It may be the team with the best chance of a bronze medal if everyone keeps their stuff together, but it sure does feel a little bit corporate.

We have two long time team riders on hired gun horses who were already top horses when purchased, a super fancy dressage horse who can sometimes get it done on cross country but who has spectacular failures as well in the not too distant past and who has never made it around a four star being ridden by a rider who maybe hasn't put in enough dues to be given this big of a benefit of the doubt.

Even with Boyd, they've managed to pick the one option of his three horses that doesnt move me at all. Neville is Neville and remington has the great story of being a dressage reject someone turned into a super honest and brave event horse. I know it's an unfair thought, but Otis seems like just another fancy ULH that a syndicate paid a lot of money for.

Maybe I need to read up on Twizzle and find something interesting, but otherwise it all seems a bit meh.

CiegoStar
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:44 PM
I'm no great historian of the sport, but I wish people would remember that none other than God (Jimmy Wofford) went to the Olympics on made 4* horses that HIS MOM BOUGHT HIM. Money didn't give Jimmy Wofford talent but it did give him opportunity, and that's priceless.

Money getting people to the Olympics is nothing new. get over itttttttttttttttttttttttttt please.

ponysize
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:45 PM
Is this the last team CMP gets to pick?

PonyGal08
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:46 PM
I think y'all are comparing who's has "Sinead's spot" all wrong. I think it was no secret that there was going to be a high risk-high reward member on the team. That's Tiana. Sinead doesn't fit that category. It was either going to be Tiana or Allison.

Now for Sinead... she was going to take a consistency spot. With the first two already taken by Boyd and Phillip, and I think most are not surprised.... regardless of whether you truly agree or not... Karen was going to get a spot.

So in reality the final consistency spot was... what most thought... for Sinead... BUT it went to Will C. So it came down to Will C or Sinead. I think the selectors had a really tough choice. Will, minus some of Twiz's soundness issues... is a good pick and seemed to be peaking at the right time where Tate did not. It really sucks talented and deserving pairs were left off, but that's life.

I choose to look at it this way... if something happens to those on the Team, if something happens between now and the games, we have really good alternates. I don't know about everyone else, but I haven't had that comfortable feeling in a while.

Sannois
Jul. 2, 2012, 05:57 PM
Didn't Sinead come up under the O'Connors?
I know she was getting very promising.
Karen has more than a few Olympics under her belt. But I still think it is not a strong team to go up against the British and the New Zealanders. :confused:

vineyridge
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:00 PM
International eventing has changed a lot since short format.

Think about it. There was not a 4* course on the European continent until 2006. We didn't have a 4* before 1998. I'm not sure when Adelaide started, but the Aussies didn't have a 4* before 2000. The New Zealanders still don't.

Until comparatively recently Olympic eventing has been about 3* nations. The Germans still don't focus on 4*s. Nor do the French. The fact that the rules now say that the Olympic course is to be of 4* quality is newish.

Across the board, Eventing has softer, slower options. That is nothing new. There are always riders at 4*s who qualified by running 3*s. and many of them are just as happy to have completed as some Olympic riders will be. That doesn't make a competition any less. Nor does it mean that the Olympics are any more of a two tier sport than the rest of eventing.

bambam
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:06 PM
I also am surprised about Sinead
My recollection is that Twizzel has not been that consistent at the 3 and 4 star level he was inconsistent (although he certainly did well at Rolex and this weekend).
Am I mis-remembering?

I would have thought Sinead was a better bet as solid finisher who will get around xc clean and has the potential to put in a really good dressage test, although not Arthur/Ringwood Magister good (I mean she was 2nd at Rolex and pretty high up at Burghley in good company).

NCRider
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:09 PM
I understand that some portion of the team has usually been made up of hired guns, including the great Jimmy Wofford. That doesn't mean that feeling blah about this particular list is an invalid feeling.

At this point, Peter Barry and his horse are probably the easiest north American pair to feel inspired about.

Moody Mare
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:10 PM
We have two long time team riders on hired gun horses who were already top horses when purchased, a super fancy dressage horse who can sometimes get it done on cross country but who has spectacular failures as well in the not too distant past and who has never made it around a four star being ridden by a rider who maybe hasn't put in enough dues to be given this big of a benefit of the doubt.

Even with Boyd, they've managed to pick the one option of his three horses that doesnt move me at all. Neville is Neville and remington has the great story of being a dressage reject someone turned into a super honest and brave event horse. I know it's an unfair thought, but Otis seems like just another fancy ULH that a syndicate paid a lot of money for.


We won't be the only, or first, to bring a few made horses. And as my DD would say, the riders still have to have the skills to ride those horses at that level.
Fortunately for US... :-)

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:14 PM
At this point, Peter Barry and his horse are probably the easiest north American pair to feel inspired about.

Completely! I love his horse. I'm rooting for them like non other :D

NCRider
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:16 PM
I'm not saying this shouldn't be the team or that it isn't the group most likely to bring home a medal. I'm just sad there's nothing in it that moves me at all. At least with sinead I was looking forward to Meg's blogs.

eventer2012
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:19 PM
I think y'all are comparing who's has "Sinead's spot" all wrong. I think it was no secret that there was going to be a high risk-high reward member on the team. That's Tiana. Sinead doesn't fit that category. It was either going to be Tiana or Allison.

Now for Sinead... she was going to take a consistency spot. With the first two already taken by Boyd and Phillip, and I think most are not surprised.... regardless of whether you truly agree or not... Karen was going to get a spot.

So in reality the final consistency spot was... what most thought... for Sinead... BUT it went to Will C. So it came down to Will C or Sinead. I think the selectors had a really tough choice. Will, minus some of Twiz's soundness issues... is a good pick and seemed to be peaking at the right time where Tate did not. It really sucks talented and deserving pairs were left off, but that's life.

I choose to look at it this way... if something happens to those on the Team, if something happens between now and the games, we have really good alternates. I don't know about everyone else, but I haven't had that comfortable feeling in a while.

Yes! This is what I was trying to get across earlier!!!

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:21 PM
At least with sinead I was looking forward to Meg's blogs.

OMG ha Meg cracks me up. I will miss those too :no:

Oh well. Good luck to everyone who made the team. Time to get out the bubble wrap!

yellowbritches
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:25 PM
I understand that some portion of the team has usually been made up of hired guns, including the great Jimmy Wofford. That doesn't mean that feeling blah about this particular list is an invalid feeling.

At this point, Peter Barry and his horse are probably the easiest north American pair to feel inspired about.
What would you rather, then? A bunch of girls on their one horse wonders that they rescued from the meat man? This is the sport at the international level. If you want to be good at that level, you need impressive horses ridden by impressive riders. We're supposed to send our best of the best (whether we agree if we're actually sending it is another story), not the feel good story. You certainly don't see the Brits doing anything but sending their very, very best.

I am crushed for Sinead, but I do get the "risk-reward" factor with Tiana. It just sucks. I am, however, thrilled to itty bitty pieces for Will, who I have cheered on and admired and rooted for since he was catch riding rank, Irish babies for my boss many moons ago. Sentimentally, I'm sad Neville isn't going, but I can understand why, I guess. Otis is a cool horse and should get the job done.

retreadeventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:27 PM
I will admit to being a little disappointed in this list as it really does represent where the sport is today and that's not a very inspired place. It may be the team with the best chance of a bronze medal if everyone keeps their stuff together, but it sure does feel a little bit corporate.

We have two long time team riders on hired gun horses who were already top horses when purchased, a super fancy dressage horse who can sometimes get it done on cross country but who has spectacular failures as well in the not too distant past and who has never made it around a four star being ridden by a rider who maybe hasn't put in enough dues to be given this big of a benefit of the doubt.

Even with Boyd, they've managed to pick the one option of his three horses that doesnt move me at all. Neville is Neville and remington has the great story of being a dressage reject someone turned into a super honest and brave event horse. I know it's an unfair thought, but Otis seems like just another fancy ULH that a syndicate paid a lot of money for.

Maybe I need to read up on Twizzle and find something interesting, but otherwise it all seems a bit meh.

It's the Olympics -- wouldn't be without the politics. I agree with NCrider. Sheesh. The British come over to do our four star with second string horses and wipe us up. The only American that can finish with them and they leave her off the team. Who knew the California/gone-to-England horse would thrill so many with so little experience. I saw this horse at Rolex too. Not in the same class with Manoir de Carneville, in my opinion.

Not in much of a rah-rah mood, and not eagerly awaiting the cookie-cutter blogs we're going to be "treated" to in the coming weeks...heck I can write one right now for all of them to copy...thanks to blah blah blah everyone ...feels great .... can't wait .... my horse is wonderful ... blah blah .... weather here .... parties ... fun .... etc.

Let's start looking at how we can expect the selection process to change with our new coach. How are the Canadians prepping?

OverandOnward
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:29 PM
In any case ... the chances that the first-picked team will all ride in this Olympics are close to zero.

In horse-time, it is a long, long, long time before the first horse goes up the Olympic center line ... or whenever the last substitution can be made. Unexpected things will happen.

Hate to say it in a negative way, but remember Heidi White. She worked as hard, for as long, and deserved the pick as much as anyone. She got it. At the last minute some small injury to Northern Spy was enough of a problem that she did not get the plane to HK - and Karen went instead. Why Karen? Mostly because she was there and ready. More than that Mandiba was really the next best choice for the team. He wasn't - even Karen said so.

All the U.S. riders in England who thought they had a shot and wanted to be on the team should not do anything now that would jeopardize their chances. Or say anything, either. They should maintain the same readiness as if they were actually on the team. Quite likely that one or more could ride in the Olympics after all. And if that pick comes, it won't happen in the order that it might now, but in the order that seems best at that time. It's still the time not to blow it. :)

Isabeau Z Solace
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:36 PM
Sinead is local to my area. And I have friends who have been lessoning with her intensely, and attending the fundraisers, to help her make it all happen. I am sure they were sure she was going to be a 'pick' for the team.

I was also sure Blitz was a shoe in for dressage. I had fits after the first weekend at USET. Then was even more horrified that Otto might go with another rider..... (I feel sorry for y'all who aren't within good gossipping distance of Gladstone. The rumor mill is rife with the misbehaviors and dramatic interludes of certain folks on the second weekend;):cool:) Surely the concentration of heinous gossips in this area must be a statistical freak thing....

ARghhh the horse bus is tough.:no: As even the folks at the top of the pyramid can get the rug pulled out from underneath their butts at any minute. Soooo close. But then again, not quite.:confused:

JP60
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:38 PM
I'm not saying this shouldn't be the team or that it isn't the group most likely to bring home a medal. I'm just sad there's nothing in it that moves me at all. At least with sinead I was looking forward to Meg's blogs.
This is where I am at.

One thing too that bugs me is we say "team". Technically this is not a team for both in experience and definition a team works "together" to bring about a positive end or completion of goal. I felt this even before this list, but all of these...groupings...are just people thrown together to attempt a "win" for a country. How do they work together?

A relay team comes to mind for there you have a set of individuals that depend on each other, but are tested individually in the moment. However, you'll find that relay's train together, learn each others strengths and weaknesses so they can achieve a goal. Y'all talk about the "consistant" member or the "wildcard" member like there is some plan. Bullocks. One rider does not depend on the next for their role. Whether Boyd stops will do little effect the next riders score for time and conditions will nullify the impact of his mistake.

Instead of selecting rider/horses to win a medal (knowing the outside chance of that), either pick based on my original premise, people who earned it, or pick based on those who inspire and represent the essence of a country. Sculling is a team sport for each boat, sailing is a team sport, but eventing....no.

this has been good for me, because now I can focus watching, not so much on the aspect of a team, but free to support those who I connect with the most. There is no Team USA, there is Team Eventing and I got my favorites now to enjoy (fyi, I Lucinda Green for many reasons, but one, she coached the Austrian eventing "team". I can't wait to watch how they do along with Tina Ligon and some other "2nd tier" riders. Watching Heart ride is the Olympic spirit and yes, I am dreamer)

Dry Clean Only
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:43 PM
Gotta wonder if Sinead no longer being single makes her less interesting to.certain powers that be :eek:

wanderlust
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:44 PM
Even with Boyd, they've managed to pick the one option of his three horses that doesnt move me at all. Neville is Neville and remington has the great story of being a dressage reject someone turned into a super honest and brave event horse. I know it's an unfair thought, but Otis seems like just another fancy ULH that a syndicate paid a lot of money for. Just because it has a "good story" doesn't mean it is the best horse for the job.

Seriously, from a horseflesh perspective, Otis has it all. Fancy beyond belief with beautiful movement, a GIANT effortless galloping stride, and scope for days.

A horse shouldn't have to be an underdog with a ferocious attitude that overcomes it's athletic shortcomings in order to be the favorite. It certainly helps with the PR, but a good horse is a good horse, and IMO, Otis is one of the best.

Liebe-ist-Krieg
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:45 PM
What would you rather, then? A bunch of girls on their one horse wonders that they rescued from the meat man? This is the sport at the international level. If you want to be good at that level, you need impressive horses ridden by impressive riders. We're supposed to send our best of the best (whether we agree if we're actually sending it is another story), not the feel good story.
.
Yep. And we should probably get used to it, I think that as the dressage has become increasingly important we will be seeing fewer and fewer "one horse wonders".

bits619
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:46 PM
I'm crushed for meg and sinead as well. Blast.

snoopy
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:47 PM
Just because it has a "good story" doesn't mean it is the best horse for the job.

Seriously, from a horseflesh perspective, Otis has it all. Fancy beyond belief with beautiful movement, a GIANT effortless galloping stride, and scope for days.

A horse shouldn't have to be an underdog with a ferocious attitude that overcomes it's athletic shortcomings in order to be the favorite. It certainly helps with the PR, but a good horse is a good horse, and IMO, Otis is one of the best.



:yes:

Blugal
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:49 PM
Gotta wonder if Sinead no longer being single makes her less interesting to.certain powers that be :eek:

Wow, I cannot see that at all. What the selectors might possibly have seen is a change in focus/priorities that may, or may not, have effected her game plan.

eventrider
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:50 PM
Has anyone noted his connections to most of the horses on the team...

retreadeventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 06:54 PM
In any case ... the chances that the first-picked team will all ride in this Olympics are close to zero.

In horse-time, it is a long, long, long time before the first horse goes up the Olympic center line ... or whenever the last substitution can be made. Unexpected things will happen.

Hate to say it in a negative way, but remember Heidi White. She worked as hard, for as long, and deserved the pick as much as anyone. She got it. At the last minute some small injury to Northern Spy was enough of a problem that she did not get the plane to HK - and Karen went instead. Why Karen? Mostly because she was there and ready. More than that Mandiba was really the next best choice for the team. He wasn't - even Karen said so.

All the U.S. riders in England who thought they had a shot and wanted to be on the team should not do anything now that would jeopardize their chances. Or say anything, either. They should maintain the same readiness as if they were actually on the team. Quite likely that one or more could ride in the Olympics after all. And if that pick comes, it won't happen in the order that it might now, but in the order that seems best at that time. It's still the time not to blow it. :)

Very unlikely with Boyd having three horses.

Dry Clean Only
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:07 PM
Wow, I cannot see that at all. What the selectors might possibly have seen is a change in focus/priorities that may, or may not, have effected her game plan.

I was actually trying to make an absurdly snarky coment relating to CMP's penchant for blondes, not at all implying Sinead has changed her priorities at all. She seems to really have had the rug pulled out from her.

JmpR_1
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:10 PM
Statement from Sinead!



I’m sitting here at an amazing oak table with a glass of wine watching Nat (Will’s groom) eat roman noodles, Meg look for hot sauce and Gracie Lou (Allison’s groom) play on Facebook… Team SHE in the last few hours have shed a tear or two but all of us around the table take turns telling a story that either inspires, inquires or at least makes us fall out of our chairs laughing. We are heartbroken but understand we have no choice but to keep going and should do that in camaraderie and laughing.

When I walked into the “round table” when all of the riders were told their fate, my heart was pounding through my chest. Despite my dressage score, my weekend at our final outing went according to plan. Next… one of the selectors read off the team in alphabetical order and my heart stopped.

Unfortunately they named the team in the first five minutes and then spent the next twenty minutes going through team “details”… I can tell you Allison, Clark, Will and I were not listening but I was desperate for the door at this point in time. I always want to be proud of how I carry myself but I was struggling and having some problems not getting up and running.

Tate has had a near flawless career, but does suffer from an allergy. We noticed it in 2009 when he had a nose bleed after a two star. Basically he is like a little kid that gets a nose bleed easily. We have always worked preventatively with the issue by steaming his hay, keeping his bedding the same and the use of an inhaler if he has shown any allergenic signs. When we finished Barbury he had a SLIGHT nosebleed showing he might be having a bit of an allergic reaction to something. He did not bleed on course and we scoped him today and his lungs showed no signs of trauma.

I have complete confidence in my fitness program, especially with the management of Tate, and he has proven that his allergy has not kept him from tackling the biggest tracks in the world. I wish I had more of a conversation with the selectors so they understood my awareness and management of his situation. I do not envy the selectors and I understand the risk versus reward ratio.

I love my horse, I am very happy with his performance and in hind sight, my game of chess would still be the same.

I am devastated – more for the people that have followed and supported our dream. I do believe successes are built on the “bumps in the road”, and this feels like a 2×4 in the face, but maybe that will make us even tougher …. I cannot thank everyone enough and I am truly sorry we could not come through for you this time.

Sinead

-I feel so bad for everyone who did not make it. This sport is so hard sometimes. (Mine is bold)

NCRider
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:12 PM
Again, I understand how the team has ended up the way it has. It's probably the right mix if we want to be within shouting distance of a bronze medal after the dressage or if we want a shot at an individual medal given the two rounds of SJ. I am just personally disappointed that not one of the pairs and/or horses I had taken an interest in over the last few years has made the team. As I said before, I suspect that will c. And twizzel will be easy to get behind if I think about it enough.

Eventguy
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:12 PM
To all who are shocked that Sinead didn't make the team I encourage you to re-read the captain's commentary (I think it was in US Eventing Magazine) post Rolex 2011...

Trak_Eventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:14 PM
So glad to hear from Sinead! She has so many supporters of her and Tate. Wishing them best of luck and wishing they prove the selectors wrong! SHE for WEG 2014!!

Xctrygirl
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:15 PM
Edited to remove summary.

Thanks for copying.


Emily

Moody Mare
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:16 PM
Has anyone noted his connections to most of the horses on the team...

No, please elaborate.

I did take note the ones selected are well funded. Not that there IS a connection here, but I'm not aware of any of those having to hold fundraisers etc..

ZiggyStardust
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:26 PM
It may be the team with the best chance of a bronze medal if everyone keeps their stuff together, but it sure does feel a little bit corporate.


The Olympics is corporate. NBA players going to the Olympics, really? I guess it gives other countries a chance to face opponents they might not usually, but let's face it, the whole thing is about making money. Who has it, and who has the best ability to help other people get more of it. With lots of athletes that are professionals and/or have money-making machines behind them.

Takes some of the inspiration out of it, for a romantic, but once you can let that go, the whole spectacle makes a lot more sense. Can't say I'll be going out of my way to attend in person, but I suppose they'll go on without me...

JFCeventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:35 PM
To all who are shocked that Sinead didn't make the team I encourage you to re-read the captain's commentary (I think it was in US Eventing Magazine) post Rolex 2011...

Err, just reread the article, what exactly are you referring to?

Blugal
Jul. 2, 2012, 07:47 PM
Hopefully someone is counselling Sinead about staying ready in case she is called up as reserve.

BestHorses
Jul. 2, 2012, 08:01 PM
Hopefully someone is counselling Sinead about staying ready in case she is called up as reserve.

:winkgrin:

subk
Jul. 2, 2012, 08:10 PM
I sure hope London is going to be the dressage show the selectors are obviously expecting.

Mystery Whisper has completed 1 of 3 4 stars--2 ELs with Heath Ryan and has never competed at the level with current rider

Twizzel has completed 2 of 4 4 stars.

Ringwood Magister did not complete his one try at a 4 star and his rider has never completed one either

Otis 1 completion in one experience (Neville who is 4 for 4 and placed in the top 10 in all of them is not going.)

Mr. Medicott is a champ at 5 for 5

We are sending ONE experienced and/or consistent 4 star horse and rider pair to London and they don't have but 1 4 star go together. Last year there were 3 US horses that ran 2 clean 4 star courses. None of those horses are going to London despite all three being sound.

I am not optimistic.

ACMEeventing
Jul. 2, 2012, 08:20 PM
I sure hope London is going to be the dressage show the selectors are obviously expecting.

Mystery Whisper has completed 1 of 3 4 stars--2 ELs with Heath Ryan and has never competed at the level with current rider

Twizzel has completed 2 of 4 4 stars.

Ringwood Magister did not complete his one try at a 4 star and his rider has never completed one either

Otis 1 completion in one experience (Neville who is 4 for 4 and placed in the top 10 in all of them is not going.)

Mr. Medicott is a champ at 5 for 5

We are sending ONE experienced and/or consistent 4 star horse and rider pair to London and they don't have but 1 4 star go together. Last year there were 3 US horses that ran 2 clean 4 star courses. None of those horses are going to London despite all three being sound.

I am not optimistic.

This just about sums it up; for me anyways :no:

I'll still cheer USA, but I was really hoping for Allison and Sinead.

gorebels91
Jul. 2, 2012, 08:33 PM
I didn't realize Mystery Whisper had eliminations at the 4* level before. Heath Ryan is a VERY accomplished rider, so that's some food for thought. Sinead is such a good sport, and despite my annoyance/ frustration with the selectors, she will have another day to fight with her lovely French red head.
As for the Wildasins having involvement, I'm not sure. I do know they're on Wall St., and have supported many a rider before. Whether or not they had any pull I have no clue, but I'd love to be enlightened.

Clear Blue
Jul. 2, 2012, 08:47 PM
For MW the FEI lists the 2008 4* elim for dressage - maybe he left the arena?

After that Heath's health issues could certainly have played a role in the horse's performance record.

VicariousRider
Jul. 2, 2012, 09:01 PM
WOW. Sinead is a class act.


The nosebleed thing makes it all make more sense. Even if it is a no big deal allergy it is EXACTLY the kind of thing that could get a horse eliminated on course or even in Dressage or Stadium if it was visible during the competition.

I really hope that she and her team realize how incredibly proud people are - complete strangers, in fact - of what they have accomplished. KICK ON, SINEAD!!!

And Go Team! I hope we have a great summer.

subk
Jul. 2, 2012, 09:06 PM
Heath Ryan had a pretty serious head injury or stroke/aneurysm a few years ago - and hasn't made it through a four star since.
He was clean (4th place) on Mystery Whisper at Adelaide in '10 and his stroke was in '09 so I don't think your information is correct.

Eventguy
Jul. 2, 2012, 09:42 PM
Err, just reread the article, what exactly are you referring to?

I haven't read it in a long time but I remember him saying something about Sinead not having been a favorite of his prior to that Rolex.

Judysmom
Jul. 2, 2012, 09:45 PM
I sure hope London is going to be the dressage show the selectors are obviously expecting.

Mystery Whisper has completed 1 of 3 4 stars--2 ELs with Heath Ryan and has never competed at the level with current rider

Twizzel has completed 2 of 4 4 stars.

Ringwood Magister did not complete his one try at a 4 star and his rider has never completed one either

Otis 1 completion in one experience (Neville who is 4 for 4 and placed in the top 10 in all of them is not going.)

Mr. Medicott is a champ at 5 for 5

We are sending ONE experienced and/or consistent 4 star horse and rider pair to London and they don't have but 1 4 star go together. Last year there were 3 US horses that ran 2 clean 4 star courses. None of those horses are going to London despite all three being sound.

I am not optimistic.

Really good point. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.


Super, super bummed for Sinead and Alison :(

CookiePony
Jul. 2, 2012, 10:34 PM
Did it appear as though Neville and Tate peaked too early. They were both awesome last year, but they both seemed to fizzle this year. Maybe Boyd and Sinead were following hints from the team that these horses were shoo-ins and didn't do much prep, but IMHO, the lead up left them both a bit flat-footed at the end.

Actually, I feel that they have yet to peak. We don't want the team members peaking at Barbury, we want them peaking at Greenwich. Both of them would have been quite sharp at the Games, I venture to guess. This is the main reason I disliked the strategy of making Barbury so decisive. But hey, wasn't my decision to make.

Jealoushe
Jul. 2, 2012, 10:57 PM
I think it's pretty brutal they basically made it seem like Sinead would make the team, she had a by for most things. She packed up and went to the UK, missed a lot of things here and I'm sure money making opportunities for herself... Feel like they led her team on.

poltroon
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:06 PM
In any case ... the chances that the first-picked team will all ride in this Olympics are close to zero.

In horse-time, it is a long, long, long time before the first horse goes up the Olympic center line ... or whenever the last substitution can be made. Unexpected things will happen.

Hate to say it in a negative way, but remember Heidi White. She worked as hard, for as long, and deserved the pick as much as anyone. She got it. At the last minute some small injury to Northern Spy was enough of a problem that she did not get the plane to HK - and Karen went instead. Why Karen? Mostly because she was there and ready. More than that Mandiba was really the next best choice for the team. He wasn't - even Karen said so.

All the U.S. riders in England who thought they had a shot and wanted to be on the team should not do anything now that would jeopardize their chances. Or say anything, either. They should maintain the same readiness as if they were actually on the team. Quite likely that one or more could ride in the Olympics after all. And if that pick comes, it won't happen in the order that it might now, but in the order that seems best at that time. It's still the time not to blow it. :)

This this this.

I recall some fairly late substitutions at Sydney too.

Robby Johnson
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:13 PM
Will Coleman is a very intelligent pick. Twizzel is very experienced at the 3 and 4 star level and assuming he is sound, he is a great choice for the team, with very consistent dressage, usually clear sj, and has proven he can make the time (at Rolex this year).

Clark and Will F will be on a team in the future for sure...I am sure the selectors were concerned about Glen's fitness, especially for Greenwich with the massive hill. Will F would have had a better shot if he had gone clean at Rolex, but alas, there is always 2014!

These are all my opinions, feel free to shoot them down. The selectors had a very tough job, and let's rally behind the team 100%!

I believe Missy's record with Will is far more consistent than Tiana's with her horse. Yes, it is spectacular, but it has had more stops at the "lower" level. Also, Will was consistently passed over for teams on Brad (other than Pan Ams) even though the horse did 9 4* competitions with no xc penalties.

With that said, I think you have an excellent perspective as to the "why" factor on Tiana. If the spell is cast right, the magic will be powerful. You can't ignore the fact that she was also the highest placing nominated rider at the final selection trial.

I am more of a safe bet kind of gambler myself. I would send Will F or Clark before Tiana, and I would actually slot Will C and Twizzel for the whodat spot.

SnicklefritzG
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:16 PM
I think it's pretty brutal they basically made it seem like Sinead would make the team, she had a by for most things. She packed up and went to the UK, missed a lot of things here and I'm sure money making opportunities for herself... Feel like they led her team on.

I just don't get it...what reason would they have to not pick her

WIExpat
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:20 PM
I'm a big fan of Sinead and Allison...definitely destined for great things!

retreadeventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:33 PM
Denny had a very important point...he reminded us (on Fb) that Tad Coffin was passed over for the world championship team, then two years later won a gold medal.

DLee
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:33 PM
I'm devastated for Sinead. She has worked her buns off to get where she is today. She and Tate have a once-in-a-lifetime relationship and that won't be there in 2016. Bummed OUT.

That is how I feel as well. She has really stuck with him, through all his rehabilitation, and they are truly a Team. :(

Whatabeautifullife
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:48 PM
For what it is worth, here are some of my thoughts on the team:

1. Phillip was a shoe in on Mystery Whisper. While it is true that they have yet to complete a 4* together, their consistent, albeit short, record is undeniably attractive, it is superb in the dressage and the show jumping, and if there is anyone in the tack to get it safely and successfully around an Olympic track, whether it be a 3*, 3.25* or 4*, it would be Phillip. Would it have been comforting for them to have completed Rolex? Yes. Would it have been in the best interest of the horse to run around a 4*? Maybe not. Given the tendency to overrun these horses, combined with a past history of soundness issues on the US teams, it might not have been a risk that seemed worth taking, especially considering that barring any unexpected turn of events the horse was already essentially a given.

2. Otis was the best choice, IMHO. While it would have been a storybook ending to the Neville & Boyd saga, we are riding for medals, not for movie ticket sales. Given the Olympic format, picking the best show jumper was a smart move. The fall from Neville at this past weekend certainly didn't help his chances, but I think that Otis was already favored. Again, less experienced, but with all the right ingredients, and with Boyd in the saddle they have the potential to put in an impressive performance.

3. Loughan Glen is a horse for Normandy 2014.

4. Sinead was not left out in place of Tiana. Sinead and Tate would have taken one of the spots for the consistent and experienced horses. Tiana was going to take the wild card spot. Unfortunately, although they are most definitely deserving, Sinead didn't fit into the balance of consistency, and risk and reward. They are a fabulous pair and we will see them continuing to do well in the future, but as some said it seems Tate may have peaked too soon for this particular event. Given his lack of runs this year, lack of direction from the US team coaches (which was no fault of her own) and a mediocre dressage performance last weekend, I can see why she was not chosen. It sucks, she deserves a shot, and it appears she was strung along, but I do understand. Additionally, the potential for a nosebleed may have tipped the scales just enough to keep her off the list.

5. Tiana epitomizes risk and reward. If the clouds are all aligned, they can be on the top. If not, their score will be dropped. It makes sense, strategically, to put someone like her on the team. I would say it came down to Tiana and Allison, and given this weekends performances, there is a good argument for Tiana.

6. I am thrilled to see that luck is finally with Will and Twizzel. They have had their fair share of bumps in the road, and given that the horse is 16, this was realistically their last chance at the Olympics as a pair, although I am sure we will see plenty of Will in the future. He is really a pleasure to watch on a horse.

7. Given her experience, it is never a bad thing to have Karen on the team. Unexperienced as a partnership, but separately they are two of the more experienced members of the entire team. They have been improving together and hopefully will be able to overcome problems with making the time, and with MM being so strong on course.

8. The alternates are unranked in the sense that each horse on the team most likely has an alternate or two that were probably the horses they were fighting for a spot against. Tiana would be replaced by Allison, Will by Sinead or Clark, Otis by Remington, etc. The goal would be to maintain the ratio of consistency and risk.

9. Thank you to the Wildasins for giving these two riders the opportunity to compete for their country. It is wonderful that they have chosen to support this sport to the extent they have. The reality of eventing is that it is expensive, especially at these levels, and financial backing is vital to the support of any program. Let's support their commitment.

It is heartbreaking for all of those who didn't make the team, and we are lucky to have so many talented riders that we can have such a deep field of alternates. There were more than 5 capable, deserving pairs, and disappointment is inevitable in an Olympic year. There is additional information we are not privy too regarding veterinary evaluations as well, and at this point in time let's stand behind our riders and our team; it's a damn good one.

JFCeventer
Jul. 2, 2012, 11:54 PM
I haven't read it in a long time but I remember him saying something about Sinead not having been a favorite of his prior to that Rolex.

Oops, my apologies, I was thinking the 2012 one. I'll have to go back and find the 2011 one.

Blugal
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:13 AM
Infusing a different thought into this mix:

Why is Karen considered such a "low risk"?

Atlanta Olympics: 20 XC faults
Aachen WEG: 40 XC faults
Hong Kong Olympics: 40 XC faults

JmpR_1
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:15 AM
I hope Karen does well this year, since it is her last time representing the US.

JER
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:29 AM
The things that happen when I'm at 36,000 feet....

Poor, poor Sinead. Sinead, I hope your career is nothing but stellar from this day on. Win Badminton, win Burghley, win Rolex, win it all. You've done everything right.



Not in much of a rah-rah mood, and not eagerly awaiting the cookie-cutter blogs we're going to be "treated" to in the coming weeks...heck I can write one right now for all of them to copy...thanks to blah blah blah everyone ...feels great .... can't wait .... my horse is wonderful ... blah blah .... weather here .... parties ... fun .... etc.

Gold medal to retread.

But this is what you get in a fear-based system.

It's a shame, because there's no greater story than the inner game of riding, of the day-to-day partnership of horse and rider. Which is something that Sinead managed to convey very honestly and movingly in her blog. I do hope she and Meg continue to write because they do it very, very well.

goodmorning
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:30 AM
I think it's pretty brutal they basically made it seem like Sinead would make the team, she had a by for most things. She packed up and went to the UK, missed a lot of things here and I'm sure money making opportunities for herself... Feel like they led her team on.

I must agree. I mean, she could have done Rolex - sounds like she really wanted to reading her blog last week (?).

Anyways, really bummed for her. A great horsewoman, perhaps there is far too much political nonsense behind the puppet show. Many articles & quotes to allude to CMP & SHE not being cozy.

Ugh. Comet was a great horse that represented the US. Unfortunately, it seems like the current regime had a way of leaving a foul taste in more than a few people's mouths. Here's to the best of luck to our team.

I will admit that some of the other countries horse-selections lead you to think this is a 'dumbed-down' affair, and the likes of Neville & Tate XC will not be needed. Sad.

Whatabeautifullife
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:34 AM
Infusing a different thought into this mix:

Why is Karen considered such a "low risk"?

Atlanta Olympics: 20 XC faults
Aachen WEG: 40 XC faults
Hong Kong Olympics: 40 XC faults

They recently won Bromont, were 4th at Rolex and 4th at the Fork, 5th at Red Hills, and I do not believe have had any xc penalties to date as a pair. That would keep them out of the high risk category, and although her inconsistency in this type of competition is notable, Mr. Mendicott has already been on a gold medal winning Olympic team and finished 8th overall in 2008, as well as 3rd and 10th at Pau just to name a few.

Blugal
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:40 AM
And notably, had a stop at 2010 WEG.

vineyridge
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:59 AM
WEG 2010 seems to have been the Germans misreading the course pretty badly--except for Jung.

Heck, if you want to see an International Team regular with less than sterling results, look at Ingrid Klimke. I put her and KOC in about the same class.

OverandOnward
Jul. 3, 2012, 02:38 AM
Don't you hate Building Character, especially if you are Sinead Halpin? Doesn't it just suck?

By tomorrow I am sure Sinead will have realized that in some ways she is on the hook more now than she would have been had she made the team on the first pass. She needs, and her horse needs, to stay focused and ready, just in case ... but may not be called on. If by good fortune she is called up later due to attrition, she has to handle this blow and still bounce back. It's very tough.

Welcome to the Bigs, Ms. Halpin. Not that you weren't there already - of course. But this is a whole other level of Big. Maturity, detachment and professionalism take on new meaning. All the best to you, and we look forward to seeing "the Taterball" doing his thing around big courses yet to come. :cool:

Cameraine
Jul. 3, 2012, 08:59 AM
OK, I'll say it. Phillip and Mystery Whisper have not completed a 4* together. Tiana hasn't either. And Sinead gets left off? I feel sorry for her.

This and I think Tiana got on the list for two reasons. She just spent a year in England, and they can pull an amazing dressage test out. But I feel that Sinead was robbed. She finished 15th at Burghley last year, and was 3rd at Rolex plus many other great finished on Tate and so many other horses. ROBBED I tell you!

bizbachfan
Jul. 3, 2012, 09:56 AM
I am sure Sinead will be back and stronger than ever. She is one of the nicest people to talk to and obviously appreciates her fans/her team/her horses. Sorry we won't be seeing her at the Olympics but I bet she gets there some day. My first Rolex was last year and I will never forget her tears of joy after the SJ. Great moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pbgyjcXMec

VicariousRider
Jul. 3, 2012, 09:57 AM
She just spent a year in England,

Out of total curiosity, why do people think that this matters?

I think it helped her get on the short list, perhaps (no one had to pony up the $ to fly the horse over) but what does it have to do with getting on the team? I really doubt that all the other horses will not be totally adjusted to being in England by the time the games arrive at the end of the month. They will have all be there at least 5 or 6 weeks.

Badger
Jul. 3, 2012, 10:20 AM
From her blog post about Tate having a manageable bleeding issue, and from the Rolex situation that saw a sound horse eliminated two fences from home because of visible blood from a scrape, I'm betting the bleeding issue took Tate from the "consistent" candidate group to a "high risk" candidate group, and the gamble to go with an "all or nothing for the win" candidate like Tiana or Alison looked like a better payoff for the dice roll.

This article about problems with the blood rule in eventing is worth reading:

http://horsetalk.co.nz/2012/06/17/horse-sport-blood-rules-still-bloody-mess/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=horse-sport-blood-rules-still-bloody-mess#.T92Gl4l5nTp

JP60
Jul. 3, 2012, 10:22 AM
. My first Rolex was last year and I will never forget her tears of joy after the SJ. Great moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pbgyjcXMec
Such a beautiful round and moment. Thank you for sharing. I love the crowd response on the triple combination. A quick cheer then quiet. Hopfully she goes to Rolex next year for that may be my first visit and I would love to see her SJ round go just as well.

SnicklefritzG
Jul. 3, 2012, 10:32 AM
^^ But couldn't any horse have brushed against something and scraped itself and had some bleeding?

Badger
Jul. 3, 2012, 10:44 AM
^^ But couldn't any horse have brushed against something and scraped itself and had some bleeding?

Yes, indeed. But the risk for elimination due to blood is greatly increased if:
(1) your horse is gray and therefore blood is more visible and increases the chances of an elimination from bleeding
or
(2) your horse has a known propensity to produce blood during the stress of competition and therefore has an increased chance of being eliminated from bleeding

The reality of running an Olympic event in the age of PETA, television and the internet and instant youtube replays, and a general public who is ignorant about horse care and horse sports, means that any sign of blood may be disasterous for the team represented. The FEI needs to get some very clear and fair rules in place.

monstrpony
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:00 AM
The reality of running an Olympic event in the age of PETA, television and the internet and instant youtube replays, and a general public who is ignorant about horse care and horse sports, means that any sign of blood may be disasterous for the team represented. The FEI needs to get some very clear and fair rules in place.

Yup. Unfortunately, I suspect this was a much bigger factor that we might think it deserves to be. So sad for someone who worked so hard, and so well.

clm08
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:04 AM
For what it is worth, here are some of my thoughts on the team:

1. Phillip was a shoe in on Mystery Whisper. While it is true that they have yet to complete a 4* together, their consistent, albeit short, record is undeniably attractive, it is superb in the dressage and the show jumping, and if there is anyone in the tack to get it safely and successfully around an Olympic track, whether it be a 3*, 3.25* or 4*, it would be Phillip. Would it have been comforting for them to have completed Rolex? Yes. Would it have been in the best interest of the horse to run around a 4*? Maybe not. Given the tendency to overrun these horses, combined with a past history of soundness issues on the US teams, it might not have been a risk that seemed worth taking, especially considering that barring any unexpected turn of events the horse was already essentially a given.

2. Otis was the best choice, IMHO. While it would have been a storybook ending to the Neville & Boyd saga, we are riding for medals, not for movie ticket sales. Given the Olympic format, picking the best show jumper was a smart move. The fall from Neville at this past weekend certainly didn't help his chances, but I think that Otis was already favored. Again, less experienced, but with all the right ingredients, and with Boyd in the saddle they have the potential to put in an impressive performance.

3. Loughan Glen is a horse for Normandy 2014.

4. Sinead was not left out in place of Tiana. Sinead and Tate would have taken one of the spots for the consistent and experienced horses. Tiana was going to take the wild card spot. Unfortunately, although they are most definitely deserving, Sinead didn't fit into the balance of consistency, and risk and reward. They are a fabulous pair and we will see them continuing to do well in the future, but as some said it seems Tate may have peaked too soon for this particular event. Given his lack of runs this year, lack of direction from the US team coaches (which was no fault of her own) and a mediocre dressage performance last weekend, I can see why she was not chosen. It sucks, she deserves a shot, and it appears she was strung along, but I do understand. Additionally, the potential for a nosebleed may have tipped the scales just enough to keep her off the list.

5. Tiana epitomizes risk and reward. If the clouds are all aligned, they can be on the top. If not, their score will be dropped. It makes sense, strategically, to put someone like her on the team. I would say it came down to Tiana and Allison, and given this weekends performances, there is a good argument for Tiana.

6. I am thrilled to see that luck is finally with Will and Twizzel. They have had their fair share of bumps in the road, and given that the horse is 16, this was realistically their last chance at the Olympics as a pair, although I am sure we will see plenty of Will in the future. He is really a pleasure to watch on a horse.

7. Given her experience, it is never a bad thing to have Karen on the team. Unexperienced as a partnership, but separately they are two of the more experienced members of the entire team. They have been improving together and hopefully will be able to overcome problems with making the time, and with MM being so strong on course.

8. The alternates are unranked in the sense that each horse on the team most likely has an alternate or two that were probably the horses they were fighting for a spot against. Tiana would be replaced by Allison, Will by Sinead or Clark, Otis by Remington, etc. The goal would be to maintain the ratio of consistency and risk.

9. Thank you to the Wildasins for giving these two riders the opportunity to compete for their country. It is wonderful that they have chosen to support this sport to the extent they have. The reality of eventing is that it is expensive, especially at these levels, and financial backing is vital to the support of any program. Let's support their commitment.

It is heartbreaking for all of those who didn't make the team, and we are lucky to have so many talented riders that we can have such a deep field of alternates. There were more than 5 capable, deserving pairs, and disappointment is inevitable in an Olympic year. There is additional information we are not privy too regarding veterinary evaluations as well, and at this point in time let's stand behind our riders and our team; it's a damn good one.

Amen!! Totally agree with you! It really shows that you are not one of the "old" COTH'ers. Thanks for a more objective and positive perspective. We finally have depth in our team, we should be proud of and support them. I am sure the alternates are devastated to have come so close and not make it, but they should feel honored to be part of a very select group of talented riders and amazing horseflesh. They are classy, let us remain classy too.

NeverTime
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:16 AM
Out of total curiosity, why do people think that this matters?

I think it helped her get on the short list, perhaps (no one had to pony up the $ to fly the horse over) but what does it have to do with getting on the team? I really doubt that all the other horses will not be totally adjusted to being in England by the time the games arrive at the end of the month. They will have all be there at least 5 or 6 weeks.

I think it matters for our current generation of riders because, in recent years, we've watched our American "best" go overseas and either melt down or otherwise get totally demolished by the European competition. So, the riders like Sinead, Tiana & Clark who have spent a season or a year or more over there, proving they can hold their own in the deep end, merit some extra consideration.
I get that Tiana is high risk/high reward, but so is Allison and she's at least completed multiple 4* and appears to be on top form this spring. Surprised by that choice -- maybe it's how selectors saw each horse tackle Barbury?

ACMEeventing
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:23 AM
Just ask Adelinde Cornelissen:

http://www.wegcentral.com/2010/09/jerich-parzival-eliminated-from.html

They went into the WEG dressage finals sitting pretty to win gold. The FEI has a zero tolerance for visible blood. I am heartbroken for Sinead, she is one of my absolute favorites, but now knowing this additional piece of the puzzle I can understand the hesitation. What a shame.

RE: Will F, a fantastic rider with fantastic horses but the last 6 months have been sketchy:

Jersey Fresh - one fall, one 3rd place
Rolex - one xc stop
The Fork - one fall, one retired on xc with 60, one finished with 20

He also blasted an amazing finish at Bromont with a 2nd and 4th in the 3*. I saw the fall at the Fork and it was just one of those very unfortunate moments where no one did anything really wrong, just a big awkward jump 2 from home. But the numbers are what the numbers are . . .

vineyridge
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:25 AM
Where was CMP this winter? Did Tiana work with him directly during her year in England? Is she unattached and single?

vineyridge
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:31 AM
Honestly--I'm going to be rooting for Lenamore. 19 yo horse who is still at the top of his game. He could top off his career with an Olympic Gold and then retire. What a horse!

bornfreenowexpensive
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:31 AM
I get that Tiana is high risk/high reward, but so is Allison and she's at least completed multiple 4* and appears to be on top form this spring. Surprised by that choice -- maybe it's how selectors saw each horse tackle Barbury?


I love Arthur and Allison but given Arthur's spooky nature, and the fact that he was still sticky this past weekend....Between the two, Tiana would be my pick. I just hope Tiana keeps her head--keeps down to earth and rides. To me, it is about a year or two too soon for them and I hope she doesn't get in over her head. It takes a lot of self confidence to sail in the waters she is in now and not let the "current" take you off course.

I might have picked Will and Missy (lovely mare) over them for this year--but not sure just thinking horse most suitable for the xc at Greenwich---although I agree that Tiana has greater chance of placing higher overall.


I also agree with Whatabeautifullife...and support our team. There are always questions...and it is interesting to discuss. But in the end I'm SOOO glad not to be a selector. I will be cheering everyone on! This is a year that I believe eventing will have a much higher profile than in past Olympics....and want our sport to have its best foot forward, safe rounds and a close and exciting finish on the last day. And all horses and riders to come home safe and sound.

VicariousRider
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:33 AM
I think it matters for our current generation of riders because, in recent years, we've watched our American "best" go overseas and either melt down or otherwise get totally demolished by the European competition. So, the riders like Sinead, Tiana & Clark who have spent a season or a year or more over there, proving they can hold their own in the deep end, merit some extra consideration.

Ah - this makes sense. Thanks for your thoughts.

Aside from the team selection entirely, I do think that Tiana has done a really admirable job of pulling herself up by her bootstraps when her trajectory with Finn went a bit off course. She certainly has persevered and they can be SO brilliant when it all comes together.

JER
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:33 AM
Where was CMP this winter? Did Tiana work with him directly during her year in England? Is she unattached and single?

As unsavory as these questions are, it's important to recognize where they come from.

CMP hired his mistress to be the team SJ coach. That shows a serious lack of ethics, serious enough to require resignation or dismissal in the real world. In the realm of the USEF, an organization in which the 'E' does not stand for 'ethics', there's no investigation, no temporary suspension, not even a peep about it.

So viney asks valid questions. We already know CMP is unethical. We just don't know how unethical.

:)

fordtraktor
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:42 AM
Where was CMP this winter? Did Tiana work with him directly during her year in England? Is she unattached and single?

Good Lord, what a bunch of old cats, these posts. Should be ashamed of yourselves.

vineyridge
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:58 AM
Good Lord, what a bunch of old cats, these posts. Should be ashamed of yourselves.

RIGHT.

Her results, per the FEI are:
2012
5th at Barbury 3*
11th at Saumur 3*
WD at Burnham Market
23rd at Belton CIC3*

2011
2nd at Blenheim 3*
24th at Hartbury CIC3*
15th at Barbury in the 2*
EL Luhmuhlen CIC3*
EL Rolex

Sinead over the past two years:

2012
36th at Barbury
2nd at Jersey Fresh CIC3*

2011
15th Burghley
11th Hartbury CIC3*
3rd at Rolex
4th at The Fork

I personally think Sinead was robbed.

fordtraktor
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:08 PM
So you go online and post insinuations that Tiana must have been sleeping with CMP? Classy, real classy.

PonyGal08
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:11 PM
RIGHT.

Her results, per the FEI are:

5th at Barbury 3*
11th at Saumur 3*
WD at Burnham Market
23rd at Belton CIC3*

2011
2nd at Blenheim 3*
24th at Hartbury CIC3*
15th at Barbury in the 2*
EL Luhmuhlen CIC3*
EL Rolex

Sinead over the past two years:

2012
36th at Barbury
2nd at Jersey Fresh CIC3*

2011
15th Burghley
11th Hartbury CIC3*
3rd at Rolex
4th at The Fork

I personally think Sinead was robbed.

BUT you're STILL missing the point!!! It's NOT Sinead v. Tiana..... While this is a really sucky way to look at it... if anyone was pitted against someone else it's Will C v. Sinead. IT IS NO SECRET that there was going to be a high risk high reward slot.... that would be Tiana v. Allison.

Also, I was under the impression that CMP doesn't have input in selecting the team so what on earth would him training Tiana or her being single have anything to do with this??? The impression I got from that post is really disturbing.

SnicklefritzG
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:12 PM
Good Lord, what a bunch of old cats, these posts. Should be ashamed of yourselves.

I don't think these posts are shameful at all.

The questions being asked are very relevant given what others have mentioned CMP doing relative to who he hires to help the team, etc

Sonoma City
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:14 PM
All I know is that if I were Tiana, I would be devastated that after working so hard, the eventing community feels the need to hash out over and over how they think she shouldn't have made the team. The selectors have the same information that everyone on this thread has posted, plus A LOT more, and they came to the conclusion that the 5 people named were the best pairs to represent the USA. That includes a lot more than just those who have the best results on paper. Let's get behind them and show our support instead of making them feel like they aren't deserving.

PonyGal08
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:18 PM
I don't think these posts are shameful at all.

The questions being asked are very relevant given what others have mentioned CMP doing relative to who he hires to help the team, etc

But what does his activities have to do with who gets selected to the team??? Like I asked in my previous post, I was under the impression that only the selectors had a say, then their recommendations go to the USEF Executive Committee and the United States Olympic Committee's Board of Directors. No where is CMP on those boards..... what Viney suggested (in THIS instance) is a cheap shot and completely inappropriate.

starfish
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:33 PM
PonyGal08 - I'd caution you not to waste too much of your breath on this. There are certain posters who simply aren't willing to listen to another POV or take on the process. They will insist that Tiana "stole" Sinead's spot despite that it is evident to many of us that there was a 'wild card' spot for which Sinead didn't fit the bill. For some reason, its viewed as sporting to pick on Tiana and make very unkind insinuations.

I can understand why some might disagree with the approach of having a wild card spot, but I wish those posters would focus on that aspect rather than denigrating a hard working young rider who the selectors feel may be peaking at the right time. Only time will tell if that gamble will pay off.

bambam
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:34 PM
CMP has a lot of input into who is selected. While he is not the only selector he is one of them. The choices of the selection committee have to be approved by the USEF High Performance Committee (I think it it that committee and I also think CMP sits on it), but he is one of the primary selectors and the chef d-equipe should have a lot of input and I think the USEF approval is almost pro forma (but I don't know that for sure- I can't recall them ever rejecting a selection by the discipline selectors- have they?)
Whether that means the comment about Tiana was warranted is another issue.

The bleeding issue makes some sense to me- the pick I thought was surprising was not Tiana as the high risk/reward choice but the choice of Twizzel over Tate for one of the non-high risk spots. IIRC, their 3 and 4 star performance is very inconsistent and Tate's is very solid and very competitive. I am not sure we can afford a high risk/reward spot on this team because I don't see some of the "will get around clean" combos as being quite so likely to get around clean.

vineyridge
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:47 PM
All I'm suggesting is that CMP is a total scuzzball, and if one of the selections is totally from left field, he might be the cause. He could have been a paid coach and used that personal knowledge with the other selectors; he certainly has a history of using his fame and position to expand his opportunities beyond a single SO.

BestHorses
Jul. 3, 2012, 12:54 PM
Who are the Olympic selectors?

starfish
Jul. 3, 2012, 01:06 PM
The bleeding issue makes some sense to me- the pick I thought was surprising was not Tiana as the high risk/reward choice but the choice of Twizzel over Tate for one of the non-high risk spots. IIRC, their 3 and 4 star performance is very inconsistent and Tate's is very solid and very competitive.

I am not sure we can afford a high risk/reward spot on this team because I don't see some of the "will get around clean" combos as being quite so likely to get around clean.

Your latter comment is the one that weighs most on my mind. In theory 3 solid + a spare, should be sufficient to cover an unlikely event (a pop off, drive-by, injury that prevents a horse from jogging up after XC). But is it in this case? 2 of the 4 "solid" pairs have been together for well under a year. Karen and Phillip are super riders, but PD's horse has only ever completed one 4* (out of 3 attempts) and had significant time penalties at that event - 19.2.

The horse does seem to go well for PD, so hopefully all will go to plan but it seems like the Olympics will be the toughest course this pair has jumped together, and the horse has only ever jumped around 2 CCI events with no time penalties (a * years ago and a *** in 2011). PD has a talent for bringing horses home under the optimum time, but given the horse's record, I can't help but wonder if speed + tough track is his weakness.

Boyd is another super XC rider, and Otis has all the makings of a super international horse. That said, he's on the greener side at this level and having only seen him go a few times, I don't know how suited he is to the turning course at Greenwich. I think they will jump clean, but maybe with some time.

Karen and Mr. M are also a new pair, and the real question with them is whether she'll be able to take the hand brake off, and still make quick work of the twisty course. I really like how the horse goes for her, but he had a very different sort of rider for a very long time (mainly, male and strong!).

I also have always liked Twizzel, and if whatever soundness issue(s) he had have been resolved (he withdrew from Burghley last year before dressage - literally in the dressage warm up - and had lengthy periods of time off between 2009 and 2011), he is a pretty good pick. If I recall correctly, his failure to finish in 2011 was a bit of a fluke pop-off. He's only ever had one stop with Will in international competition and it proceeded an entire year off of international competition so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Personally, I would have given the 4th slot to Sinead but I can understand that it could have been a tight race with the bleeding issue giving the edge to Will. I think they have to assume that, with all eyes on Eventing, any trace of blood will be dealt with swiftly and could ruin that pair's chance.

vineyridge
Jul. 3, 2012, 01:10 PM
These are the High Performance Eventing Selectors for 2010-2012.
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/eventing/SelectorMemo.pdf

Whether they are the actual Olympic selectors for 2012 is not quite clear.

PonyGal08
Jul. 3, 2012, 01:11 PM
PonyGal08 - I'd caution you not to waste too much of your breath on this. There are certain posters who simply aren't willing to listen to another POV or take on the process. They will insist that Tiana "stole" Sinead's spot despite that it is evident to many of us that there was a 'wild card' spot for which Sinead didn't fit the bill. For some reason, its viewed as sporting to pick on Tiana and make very unkind insinuations.

I can understand why some might disagree with the approach of having a wild card spot, but I wish those posters would focus on that aspect rather than denigrating a hard working young rider who the selectors feel may be peaking at the right time. Only time will tell if that gamble will pay off.

I totally get what you're saying. And normally I wouldn't get my reins all twisted up. But to stoop so low as to insinuate that someone "slept" their way on to the team is so sick. Oh well, just shows their true character I guess.

JER
Jul. 3, 2012, 01:15 PM
I also have always liked Twizzel, and if whatever soundness issue(s) he had have been resolved (he withdrew from Burghley last year before dressage - literally in the dressage warm up - and had lengthy periods of time off between 2009 and 2011), he is a pretty good pick. If I recall correctly, his failure to finish in 2011 was a bit of a fluke pop-off. He's only ever had one stop with Will in international competition and it proceeded an entire year off of international competition so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I thought you'd argued yourself to the exactly opposite POV. Twizzel is 16 years old with a long history of soundness issues.

If Twizzel goes suddenly NQR on the way to the dressage arena, it won't be so great for the US. While I accept that this can be a one-time thing, you can't just toss out this horse's age and history of unsoundness at this point. I won't be surprised if we don't see him in Greenwich Park.

(And I do like WC and Twizzel very, very much.)

starfish
Jul. 3, 2012, 01:24 PM
I thought you'd argued yourself to the exactly opposite POV. Twizzel is 16 years old with a long history of soundness issues.

If Twizzel goes suddenly NQR on the way to the dressage arena, it won't be so great for the US. While I accept that this can be a one-time thing, you can't just toss out this horse's age and history of unsoundness at this point. I won't be surprised if we don't see him in Greenwich Park.

(And I do like WC and Twizzel very, very much.)

Twizzel is a very good example of how our discussions are limited by information. You are correct - we can't toss out his age and soundness as a consideration, but the selectors have a lot more information than us - particularly as it relates to soundness. Logic suggests to me that the selectors would be wary of potential issues given the Paddy debacle of 2010, particularly given Twizzel's history. Logic suggests to me that they must be happy with Twizzel's soundness.

All that said, even if he doesn't make it into the dressage ring at Greenwich, we'll probably never know if it was a new issue or an existing one. If something happens, I'm sure many will assume that it was a pre-existing issue and he shouldn't have been named, but Clarke Johnstone and Piggy French are two riders that would be quick to remind us that horses break all the time.

And for clarity, my earlier post where I stated that I would give Twizzel the benefit of the doubt was in reference to the jumping faults with WC not his soundness. As I mentioned above, we just don't have the information to reach any sort of conclusion.

JFCeventer
Jul. 3, 2012, 01:43 PM
As much as people keep arguing that it isn't Tiana vs. Sinead, I just think its ridiculous that someone like Sinead, who has not made one wrong move with that horse is left off the team. Whether she is a low risk, high risk, or whatever, it still seems unfair that a consistent rider like her should be left off the team when a horse with soundness issues and a spotty record (Twizzel) or a horse that only makes it around clean half the time (Finn) get named. I'm not saying that Sinead was left off for one or the other I just think that anyone who is as good as she is should be on the team. She's better than Tiana (although I do like Tiana and love that horse, she is not ready yet.) so why are we favoring lesser riders over better ones? Again, NOT saying that Tiana took Sinead's spot. I get the high risk, high reward thing, but honestly its stupid. You pick your best five riders with the best results, end of story. It really is the only thing that makes sense.

And speaking of the high risk, high reward thing, I really feel for Allison. I mean, I definitely get it, Arthur's a huge risk. BUT it seems as if the excuse is always going to be his past, his past, his past. If nobody ever gives him a shot because of the past, he can't prove people wrong. Allison has worked her butt off with that horse and never given up on him yet people keep knocking her because of it. At least she's completed some 4*s! I guess I would be less upset with Tiana on the team IF she has put in a better dressage test at Barbury. Everybody is arguing that that horse can do an amazing dressage test. Yes he can, but at Barbury, he didn't. I know people were complaining about the dressage atmosphere there, but that truly is a ridiculous excuse.

When it comes down to it the selectors know more than we do and there's nothing that we can do about it. Of course, I think I'm gonna cheer on the Canadians instead.

ETA: Didn't Twizzel have two rails at Barbury? One would think that would be a red flag considering the Olympic format. And how many did Sinead have? Oh right, she went clear. :rolleyes:

SnicklefritzG
Jul. 3, 2012, 01:48 PM
BUT you're STILL missing the point!!! It's NOT Sinead v. Tiana..... While this is a really sucky way to look at it... if anyone was pitted against someone else it's Will C v. Sinead. IT IS NO SECRET that there was going to be a high risk high reward slot.... that would be Tiana v. Allison.

Also, I was under the impression that CMP doesn't have input in selecting the team so what on earth would him training Tiana or her being single have anything to do with this??? The impression I got from that post is really disturbing.


If that post is really disturbing to you, it's because you're spending too much time visualizing it. Lol. You took that a bit too far on your own...

Jealoushe
Jul. 3, 2012, 02:03 PM
Here is my big question...IF the nosebleed issue was the deciding factor, they HAD to know about this earlier. Did they just discover his allergies at Barbury (the selectors I mean?).

Doubtful. Like I said...they led SHE on. They sent her to the UK, and I bet she missed a tonne of good opportunities at home because of this.

How anyone can think she is not a sure bet is beyond me!

Snaffle81
Jul. 3, 2012, 02:17 PM
If that post is really disturbing to you, it's because you're spending too much time visualizing it. Lol. You took that a bit too far on your own...

Given what we know about CMP, it's not a stretch to read between the lines of what the post below is getting at... I don't think PonyGal is the only one, because I thought the same thing.


Where was CMP this winter? Did Tiana work with him directly during her year in England? Is she unattached and single?

starfish
Jul. 3, 2012, 02:44 PM
Here is my big question...IF the nosebleed issue was the deciding factor, they HAD to know about this earlier. Did they just discover his allergies at Barbury (the selectors I mean?).

Doubtful. Like I said...they led SHE on. They sent her to the UK, and I bet she missed a tonne of good opportunities at home because of this.

How anyone can think she is not a sure bet is beyond me!

I think you are making a lot of assumptions. Sinead stated in her press release that:

Tate has had a near flawless career, but does suffer from an allergy. We noticed it in 2009 when he had a nose bleed after a two star. Basically he is like a little kid that gets a nose bleed easily. We have always worked preventively with the issue by steaming his hay, keeping his bedding the same and the use of an inhaler if he has shown any allergenic signs. When we finished Barbury he had a SLIGHT nosebleed showing he might be having a bit of an allergic reaction to something. He did not bleed on course and we scoped him today and his lungs showed no signs of trauma.

I wish I had more of a conversation with the selectors so they understood my awareness and management of his situation. I do not envy the selectors and I understand the risk versus reward ratio.

I don't understand how you can assume that they must have known about it prior to Barbury. If it was well managed, it may never come up! Even if it was mentioned, it does not sound like it had been an issue recently. Sinead even states that she wishes she could have had more of a conversation with the selectors about the issue.

I also don't understand, unless you are privy to additional information, why you believe so strongly that she was led on. Based on her blog as well as some interviews, I have always had the impression that she knew she was a top candidate but not a lock. She focused on preparing her horse as best she knew how, and hoped it was enough.

I also happen to think that she has done an admirable job preparing her horse and doing what she felt was best for him, and really hope she doesn't keep herself up a night second guessing her decisions.

voltaire51147
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:02 PM
I hope none of our selected riders reads here or at similar boards although I doubt Karen nor Boyd nor Phillip would give a rat's tail. Nuff said.

I am sure the selection committee knew of Tate's allergies but I also think they thought the problem was controlled. The recent bleeding quashed that conjecture. It was better that Tate bled at Barbury than at the Olympics.

Under the current rules, Tate would have been DQ'd with no questions asked. Does this mean the rules on bleedingneed to be addressed along with the frangible pins and countless others? Absolutely! Anyone who competes horses is under the microscope from the various groups listed previously. Knee-jerk reactions occur and some are penalized unfairly until sanity and common sense return.

Unfortunately for Sinead, sanity has not returned but rules are what they are. You can dislike them, you can disagree with them but you can't, or shouldn't be able to get around them.

It would have been nice if the US could have released vet reports on Tate asserting his soundness and even have him scoped and tested before an Olympic vet or vets. However, we are dealing with international organizations and an Olympic hierarchy, the latter, which, I have not respected for decades.

Frankly, I still believe that falling off your horse, not falling with your horse, should not be an automatic DQ. Heck, a fifteen-year-old girl or, in the case of China, twelve, can fall on her head and continue competing if her Team coaches allow. An adult eventer can land on the feet or without debilitating injury and "goodbye". Go figure.

wanderlust
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:04 PM
I truly feel for Sinead. I don't think it would have been a stretch for her to get that spot over Will or KOC, bleeding issue aside (although probably not politically expedient in the latter case).

That said, I believe that with the departure of the good captain and the arrival of DOC, nothing but great things are headed Sinead's way.

Jealoushe
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:16 PM
I think you are making a lot of assumptions. Sinead stated in her press release that:

Tate has had a near flawless career, but does suffer from an allergy. We noticed it in 2009 when he had a nose bleed after a two star. Basically he is like a little kid that gets a nose bleed easily. We have always worked preventively with the issue by steaming his hay, keeping his bedding the same and the use of an inhaler if he has shown any allergenic signs. When we finished Barbury he had a SLIGHT nosebleed showing he might be having a bit of an allergic reaction to something. He did not bleed on course and we scoped him today and his lungs showed no signs of trauma.

I wish I had more of a conversation with the selectors so they understood my awareness and management of his situation. I do not envy the selectors and I understand the risk versus reward ratio.

I don't understand how you can assume that they must have known about it prior to Barbury. If it was well managed, it may never come up! Even if it was mentioned, it does not sound like it had been an issue recently. Sinead even states that she wishes she could have had more of a conversation with the selectors about the issue.

I also don't understand, unless you are privy to additional information, why you believe so strongly that she was led on. Based on her blog as well as some interviews, I have always had the impression that she knew she was a top candidate but not a lock. She focused on preparing her horse as best she knew how, and hoped it was enough.

I also happen to think that she has done an admirable job preparing her horse and doing what she felt was best for him, and really hope she doesn't keep herself up a night second guessing her decisions.


I was not assuming....sorry if I came across that way. It's a question I genuinely am interested in the answer too. They had several vet evaluations, I would have thought they could detect that...I could be wrong.

I feel (my opinion) that they led her on. It has nothing to do with what SHE has written or spoken, but how they encouraged her to take a by and not compete at several events, and take a plane to the UK to get ready. I don't think I am alone in wondering how she got left off.

I know no one is a sure bet, but it seems odd they made a solid impression she would be there, then left her off.

Divine Comedy
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:28 PM
I was not assuming....sorry if I came across that way. It's a question I genuinely am interested in the answer too. They had several vet evaluations, I would have thought they could detect that...I could be wrong.

I feel (my opinion) that they led her on. It has nothing to do with what SHE has written or spoken, but how they encouraged her to take a by and not compete at several events, and take a plane to the UK to get ready. I don't think I am alone in wondering how she got left off.

I know no one is a sure bet, but it seems odd they made a solid impression she would be there, then left her off.

You do realize that they may have had every intention of putting her on the team until Barbury? I don't believe she was 'led on' to believe she was a lock for the team, I think that the selectors felt that barring a misstep on her part, she would be a good fit.

Unfortunately, between the lackluster dressage at Barbury (which I believe was less of a factor since that horse can put in a much better dressage test) and the nose bleed issue (which I'm sure was a much bigger factor and one that I doubt the selectors were aware of until it actually occurred at Barbury), they ultimately decided she was a risk to the team that they weren't willing to take.

The situation is tough, granted. But I don't believe the selectors did wrong in allowing Sinead to bypass shows and go to England early. It allowed her to not burn Tate out. But ultimately, at the moment of truth, they must choose the team the think is best for a medal at that exact moment, not the team they thought they were going to pick a month ago.

starfish
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:28 PM
As much as people keep arguing that it isn't Tiana vs. Sinead, I just think its ridiculous that someone like Sinead, who has not made one wrong move with that horse is left off the team. Whether she is a low risk, high risk, or whatever, it still seems unfair that a consistent rider like her should be left off the team when a horse with soundness issues and a spotty record (Twizzel) or a horse that only makes it around clean half the time (Finn) get named. I'm not saying that Sinead was left off for one or the other I just think that anyone who is as good as she is should be on the team. She's better than Tiana (although I do like Tiana and love that horse, she is not ready yet.) so why are we favoring lesser riders over better ones? Again, NOT saying that Tiana took Sinead's spot. I get the high risk, high reward thing, but honestly its stupid. You pick your best five riders with the best results, end of story. It really is the only thing that makes sense.

You are essentially advocating for a fairly objective process, which has some advantages. In that case, you set some critera - say top 5 finishes in the past 14 months (so that we capture 2011 Rolex and 2012 Rolex), and then only remove horses for soundness issues.

Just for discussions' sake, your team would be:
Arthur (47 at Rolex 2012)
Otis (51 at Rolex 2012)
Mr. Medicott (51 at Rolex 2012)
Twizzel (51.3 at Rolex 2012)
Manoir de Carneville (53.1 at Rolex 2011)

Alternates:
Neville Bardos (53.7 at Burghley 2011)
Remington (56.9 at Rolex 2011)
St Barths (61.3 at Rolex 2011)
RF Demeter (63.8 at Rolex 2012)

A system like that wouldn't allow you to give Phillip a pass on Rolex when he is of the view that it is in the horse's best interest. If he had run Rolex, he may well have bumped Tate off the above list and into the alternates. Based on this methodology, Allison would really be the rider who has suffered from the more subjective selection process.



And speaking of the high risk, high reward thing, I really feel for Allison. I mean, I definitely get it, Arthur's a huge risk. BUT it seems as if the excuse is always going to be his past, his past, his past. If nobody ever gives him a shot because of the past, he can't prove people wrong. Allison has worked her butt off with that horse and never given up on him yet people keep knocking her because of it. At least she's completed some 4*s! I guess I would be less upset with Tiana on the team IF she has put in a better dressage test at Barbury. Everybody is arguing that that horse can do an amazing dressage test. Yes he can, but at Barbury, he didn't. I know people were complaining about the dressage atmosphere there, but that truly is a ridiculous excuse.

When it comes down to it the selectors know more than we do and there's nothing that we can do about it. Of course, I think I'm gonna cheer on the Canadians instead.

ETA: Didn't Twizzel have two rails at Barbury? One would think that would be a red flag considering the Olympic format. And how many did Sinead have? Oh right, she went clear. :rolleyes:

I see your Arthur point, and absolutely feel for Allison. That said, even with his strong performances this year, she really really has to work for it. That was the one comment I heard consistently at Rolex - Arthur went clear but Allison sure had to work for it. Tweets from Barbury painted a similar picture. Unfortunately, I think really hurts them. Scoreboard is good, but the in-person impression might not be as great.

Finally, given all the other elements in play...I don't know that its really fair to suggest that the selectors ignored Twizzel's rails. As with anything, there are many, many different factors to balance.

Divine Comedy
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:33 PM
I see your Arthur point, and absolutely feel for Allison. That said, even with his strong performances this year, she really really has to work for it. That was the one comment I heard consistently at Rolex - Arthur went clear but Allison sure had to work for it. Tweets from Barbury painted a similar picture. Unfortunately, I think really hurts them. Scoreboard is good, but the in-person impression might not be as great.



I've got to agree with starfish on Allison and to add this. The high risk/high reward pair really needs to be strong in SJ in order to grab an individual medal. Arthur is notoriously not. He would have won Rolex this year if not for his rail (or his XC time for that matter). And when was the last time he jumped clear SJ after a CCI3* or 4*? Has he ever? If he's a one rail horse, well, for the Olympic format, that makes two rails. No way you will medal with that.

JFCeventer
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:39 PM
You are essentially advocating for a fairly objective process, which has some advantages. In that case, you set some critera - say top 5 finishes in the past 14 months (so that we capture 2011 Rolex and 2012 Rolex), and then only remove horses for soundness issues.

Just for discussions' sake, your team would be:
Arthur (47 at Rolex 2012)
Otis (51 at Rolex 2012)
Mr. Medicott (51 at Rolex 2012)
Twizzel (51.3 at Rolex 2012)
Manoir de Carneville (53.1 at Rolex 2011)

Alternates:
Neville Bardos (53.7 at Burghley 2011)
Remington (56.9 at Rolex 2011)
St Barths (61.3 at Rolex 2011)
RF Demeter (63.8 at Rolex 2012)

A system like that wouldn't allow you to give Phillip a pass on Rolex when he is of the view that it is in the horse's best interest. If he had run Rolex, he may well have bumped Tate off the above list and into the alternates. Based on this methodology, Allison would really be the rider who has suffered from the more subjective selection process.

I do not for one minute believe that a 100% objective process would work for various reasons, including some that you suggest. I just do not believe it to be fair that riders with less than stellar results got on the team ahead of anyone with better results. I get the wanting to add up and coming riders to the team, but that is a very fine line to walk.

starfish
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:43 PM
I've got to agree with starfish on Allison and to add this. The high risk/high reward pair really needs to be strong in SJ in order to grab an individual medal. Arthur is notoriously not. He would have won Rolex this year if not for his rail (or his XC time for that matter). And when was the last time he jumped clear SJ after a CCI3* or 4*? Has he ever? If he's a one rail horse, well, for the Olympic format, that makes two rails. No way you will medal with that.

Glad to posted this because I realized I forgot to add that in my post! He definitely has a SJ issue, and it isn't just 1-2 rails. Sometimes its 4 or more. If you are going to take a risk, which the selectors clearly opted to do, Tiana's horse is the better bet. He has NEVER had more than one rail in international competition, and often has none. 27 FEI competitions, 19 completions and and a grand total of 6 rails.

Snaffle81
Jul. 3, 2012, 03:51 PM
Tate has had a near flawless career, but does suffer from an allergy. We noticed it in 2009 when he had a nose bleed after a two star. Basically he is like a little kid that gets a nose bleed easily. We have always worked preventively with the issue by steaming his hay, keeping his bedding the same and the use of an inhaler if he has shown any allergenic signs. When we finished Barbury he had a SLIGHT nosebleed showing he might be having a bit of an allergic reaction to something. He did not bleed on course and we scoped him today and his lungs showed no signs of trauma.

I wish I had more of a conversation with the selectors so they understood my awareness and management of his situation. I do not envy the selectors and I understand the risk versus reward ratio.

Anyone know what 2* Tate did in 2009? I was looking up his record and didn't see a 2* in 2009. Maybe they remembered wrong...

Anyway, I was just curious to see how his performance was during that timeframe. Just speculating but wondered if it had something to do with his lackluster dressage score. I really feel for team SHE. Love the pair!

Jealoushe
Jul. 3, 2012, 04:11 PM
You do realize that they may have had every intention of putting her on the team until Barbury? I don't believe she was 'led on' to believe she was a lock for the team, I think that the selectors felt that barring a misstep on her part, she would be a good fit.

Unfortunately, between the lackluster dressage at Barbury (which I believe was less of a factor since that horse can put in a much better dressage test) and the nose bleed issue (which I'm sure was a much bigger factor and one that I doubt the selectors were aware of until it actually occurred at Barbury), they ultimately decided she was a risk to the team that they weren't willing to take.

The situation is tough, granted. But I don't believe the selectors did wrong in allowing Sinead to bypass shows and go to England early. It allowed her to not burn Tate out. But ultimately, at the moment of truth, they must choose the team the think is best for a medal at that exact moment, not the team they thought they were going to pick a month ago.

Yes I do realize...thus why I am interested in whether they knew about his allergies before he was sent to the UK. He had several vet evaluations before then had he not?

vineyridge
Jul. 3, 2012, 04:35 PM
How anyone can say Sinead is not an up-and-comer I will never understand. She certainly isn't THERE, any more than WF or CM are. Didn't she spend a year with WFP not so very long ago, or am I misremembering?

Jealoushe
Jul. 3, 2012, 04:49 PM
Yes she did...

starfish
Jul. 3, 2012, 04:54 PM
How anyone can say Sinead is not an up-and-comer I will never understand. She certainly isn't THERE, any more than WF or CM are. Didn't she spend a year with WFP not so very long ago, or am I misremembering?

Is anyone claiming that Sinead is not an up-and-comer? Please point me toward the post.

gorebels91
Jul. 3, 2012, 06:57 PM
Sinead's been competing at the advanced level for over 10yrs on various horses. She's not an up and comer to anything but the 4* level. She's a class act.
To answer the question above, she bought Tate summer of 2008 in Europe, and brought him back to the US after an extended stay with the Fox- Pitts. He was in the top 10 at Fair Hill CCI** fall of 2008. He was aimed at Jersey Fresh in the 3* spring of '09, and she fell and broke her arm or collar bone (I can't remember).

Divine Comedy
Jul. 3, 2012, 08:05 PM
Yes I do realize...thus why I am interested in whether they knew about his allergies before he was sent to the UK. He had several vet evaluations before then had he not?

He probably only had the one they gave to all the short-listed horses before he came over to England in June. I'm pretty sure Tate's never been short listed other than that, and they don't vet check until the short list.

A nosebleed is not necessarily something they would be aware of unless it had happened before while the selectors were watching or unless Sinead specifically informed them. And lots of horses have minor, minor issues that never crop up in a vet check, never get mentioned because they are usually managed so well it's not even a problem. Sinead might have mentioned, "Oh hey, Tate has an allergy and would benefit from maintaing his usual shavings." However, I seriously doubt she said, "Oh hey, Tate has an allergy and although it's never happened before, he has a possibility of a nosebleed." It's not even something that would run through her head to mention. And so no, I seriously doubt the selectors (and possibly even Sinead) were aware of the possibility of a nosebleed.

For what it's worth, I have a horse who occasionally pops a blood vessel in his nose (either side, but never both at the same time). He has a big white nostril on one side, so it's pretty obvious. It happens maybe once or twice a year, 95% of the time occurs during a gallop when extremely hot and humid, and one time occurred after five minutes of warm up. I've had vets check him out, but it's not his lungs bleeding. His blood vessels just have a propensity to pop. It's such a minor issue, I would never even think of mentioning it on a vet check (for sale or for team purposes). It's also never happened at an event. It's just never been an issue.

Every horse has minor things that are basically non-issues. This has probably been one of Tate's up until now. It's unfortunate that now was when the nosebleed had to happen.

starfish
Jul. 3, 2012, 09:30 PM
He probably only had the one they gave to all the short-listed horses before he came over to England in June. I'm pretty sure Tate's never been short listed other than that, and they don't vet check until the short list.

A nosebleed is not necessarily something they would be aware of unless it had happened before while the selectors were watching or unless Sinead specifically informed them. And lots of horses have minor, minor issues that never crop up in a vet check, never get mentioned because they are usually managed so well it's not even a problem. Sinead might have mentioned, "Oh hey, Tate has an allergy and would benefit from maintaing his usual shavings." However, I seriously doubt she said, "Oh hey, Tate has an allergy and although it's never happened before, he has a possibility of a nosebleed." It's not even something that would run through her head to mention. And so no, I seriously doubt the selectors (and possibly even Sinead) were aware of the possibility of a nosebleed.

For what it's worth, I have a horse who occasionally pops a blood vessel in his nose (either side, but never both at the same time). He has a big white nostril on one side, so it's pretty obvious. It happens maybe once or twice a year, 95% of the time occurs during a gallop when extremely hot and humid, and one time occurred after five minutes of warm up. I've had vets check him out, but it's not his lungs bleeding. His blood vessels just have a propensity to pop. It's such a minor issue, I would never even think of mentioning it on a vet check (for sale or for team purposes). It's also never happened at an event. It's just never been an issue.

Every horse has minor things that are basically non-issues. This has probably been one of Tate's up until now. It's unfortunate that now was when the nosebleed had to happen.

Not quite right, though I agree with you for the most part.

Sinead did specifically state that he had the issue in 2009 at a 2*. As a poster pointed out earlier, she didn't run a 2* in '09 so it would have been in '08 or '10. Either way, it has been about 2 years and it hasn't been an issue - including at multiple 3* and two tough 4* competitions. While I agree that she might have mentioned the allergy to the selectors at some point (maybe), I can completely understand how it might have gone unmentioned. Sounds like it had been a small issue ONCE and had been very well managed in NA and in the UK last year.

OverandOnward
Jul. 3, 2012, 09:34 PM
Heaven forbid Sinead spent all that time in England with the sole idea it would get her on the Olympic team. That would have been an error on her part. I hope that her decision to be there was made because, Olympics or not, it was the best thing she could do for her future, both in and out of eventing.

Will the same selectors be on the job after DOC takes over? Will there be as much of a change in the selection logic as some are thinking?

The U.S. has a happier Olympic team selection problem than it has had in a long time. There are actually more than 5 very respectable, truly prepared, more experienced pairs to choose from. Compared with 2008, the international experience is deeper, there are more horses & riders with superior skills, and there is more of a range of styles and aptitudes to choose from. When I think of the team sent in 2008 I feel much better about the current situation, even if I don't entirely understand some of the choices.

And so at this time I'd like to send a HUGE THANK YOU to those who financed the development of these pairs. Huge thanks to the Rebecca Broussard legacy grant that enabled so much of the needed international experience. To the owners and syndicates, the families, friends, clubs and supporters, to the lesson students and horse-buyers, all those who kept these riders mounted and moving forward - thank you! Without you the U.S. wouldn't be in the much improved position it is in. :D:yes::cool:

And we would have to complain about different, worse problems in this thread. ;) :winkgrin:

BestHorses
Jul. 3, 2012, 10:04 PM
Heaven forbid Sinead spent all that time in England with the sole idea it would get her on the Olympic team. That would have been an error on her part. I hope that her decision to be there was made because, Olympics or not, it was the best thing she could do for her future, both in and out of eventing.


Well I would think every rider on the list went to England with the goal of getting on the Olympic team! If they aren't chosen I suppose they can think of it as gaining more experience, but I'm sure they would much rather have been chosen for the team.

It sounds like Sinead chose to go over early for more time to acclimate and give Tate the chance to be at his best. Kudos to a horsewoman caring about the horse's welfare and not doing what everyone else is doing "just because."

flutie1
Jul. 3, 2012, 10:34 PM
Where was CMP this winter? Did Tiana work with him directly during her year in England? Is she unattached and single?

This post is a load of total crap. Tiana has a brilliant horse and is a classy and ethical person. She had confidence issues last year and stayed in the UK improving her game. Why not focus on these positives rather than hinting at dark sexual liaisons?

Really people. Too much!

SnicklefritzG
Jul. 3, 2012, 10:52 PM
I think Viney's comment has more to do with the prevailing attitude about CMP and what he tends to do with his spare time. CMP can run after whomever he wishes, that doesn't mean however that the object of his pursuit is going to go along with it.

shea'smom
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:00 PM
I thought that was a very tacky remark to make about a young woman who has worked hard to get where she is.

equinedriver
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:01 PM
I hope Karen does well this year, since it is her last time representing the US.

Well, that was the statement made at the time of the coaching selection, but they have been backing off the that statement now for months. Don't bet on it being her last time on the team..........

Trak_Eventer
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:11 PM
Well, that was the statement made at the time of the coaching selection, but they have been backing off the that statement now for months. Don't bet on it being her last time on the team..........

Didn't she admit herself that if David was the coach (which he will be) that she will no longer be competing internationally for the US? I seem to recall this in multiple interviews.

equinedriver
Jul. 3, 2012, 11:43 PM
Didn't she admit herself that if David was the coach (which he will be) that she will no longer be competing internationally for the US? I seem to recall this in multiple interviews.

As, I said, she made the statement at the time he was selected. I am not very good at finding things on the internet or I would post links for you, but I have seen several interviews with her this spring where she was asked about it and each time she gave a more and more evasive answer. Started out like, well we'll have to see what the USEF position on it is, then it was something like, we'll just have to see how the horse is going and if I am good enough to make the team..........the last one I saw her give he statement was definitely leaving the door wide open to continue........

eventrider
Jul. 4, 2012, 04:36 AM
Look at who owns or is a syndicate member of all of the selected horses (except Tianas horse as I don't know who the syndicate members are ther). Must be one hex of a bill when you own or part own most of them....

eventrider
Jul. 4, 2012, 04:38 AM
And Mystery Whisper has only been eliminated at the 4 star level due to Heath falling off! That horse is worth his weight in gold.

Jazzy Lady
Jul. 4, 2012, 09:27 AM
I can't believe anyone would imply that Tiana is only on the team because CMP wants to sleep with her.

How about she's a hard worker, is peaking at the right time and her and her horse have the tools and the talent to knock it out of the park on game day? She's worth the risk in my opinion. I've always had a horse crush on RM though.

I hope Tiana proves every bloody naysayer wrong.

teddygirl
Jul. 4, 2012, 10:29 AM
You know, I was surprised to see Sinead left off the team. That description of the people who didn't make the team having to sit through the whole team meeting just sounds horrible! But the bottom line is that if the team does well in London the selectors will look like geniuses and if they don't do well the selectors will look like idiots. That's just how it rolls

vineyridge
Jul. 4, 2012, 10:57 AM
Where does one find the information on who is in a horse syndicate?

Clear Blue
Jul. 4, 2012, 11:13 AM
Boyd's are listed on his website. Check the competition horses and owners page.

Xctrygirl
Jul. 4, 2012, 12:30 PM
Surely by now Jilly Cooper should be wringing her hands in glee at the thought of a new "Riders"-esque book called... "US Eventers"

We have all the plot points:

A British royal family black sheep going abroad to show his compatriots that he can improve their foes (But he can't and he falls in love with an American Show jumper in the process)

An Olympic Husband and Wife team who are years beyond their glory days and now one is surely still a capable rider and the other coaches and not much has changed except for the size of his "mini" bike.

Young eventers of all walks of life vying to capture a spot on the famed USET but alas their progress to this goal is blocked by two vastly competent Aussies who relocated and became "americans" to ensure themselves more International competition team spots.

Ahhh but the young are determined but the Aussie fear nothing... Not even when faced with a tragic barn fire. But not ones to falter... they go running into the flames and save the horses they can.

It will be a struggle over ever last obstacle.... But who will eventually win it alll????????????????????????


Only Jilly Cooper knows....

IFG
Jul. 4, 2012, 12:49 PM
Only Jilly Cooper knows....

Or Fiona Walker whose latest book (?) Kiss and Tell is set in the eventing world. Even has a Kiwi trying to steal the Olympic gold medalist's wife. Not that I would admit to reading that trash, but...

Also, recently heard Jilly Cooper interviewed on NPR giving her opinion on allowing nursing home residents to have sex. Thought that I would fall out of my seat. Lucky I was driving so that I was strapped in. Interesting choice of interview on that topic, eh?

Xctrygirl
Jul. 4, 2012, 01:17 PM
Or Fiona Walker whose latest book (?) Kiss and Tell is set in the eventing world. Even has a Kiwi trying to steal the Olympic gold medalist's wife. Not that I would admit to reading that trash, but...

UGH!!See fiction gets it all wrong!

~Emily

kerilli
Jul. 4, 2012, 01:22 PM
I'd like to do a dis-recommendation for Kiss and Tell. I only persisted to see if it could possibly get any worse. It did. Minor fun working out who the Antipodean really was who had to flee the law (i think she got the nationality wrong though), who the married team were, etc. Otherwise - dis-recommended.

back to the Olympics, an American fan's view from this side of the pond.

Otis... huge striding? Is he? If so, will he suit Greenwich?? It's very interesting to think about which horses the resident maestros have chosen... I'm talking those with a really good fistful to choose from (Andrew Nicholson, WFP) and also which horses other selectors are favouring. That course is going to be fiendishly upsy-downsy-twisty, from all reports from the Test Event... which was only 2* of course.

I am utterly gutted for Sinead BUT i really do suspect that the nosebleed, however minor, was the total deal breaker. With current hysteria about any blood (and that ridiculous situation of pulling up poor Becky Holder at Rolex for a tiny scrape) they just can't risk it.
fwiw I've had 2 eventers that had the tiniest smear of a nosebleed occasionally. One had it once on the way down to Adv XC start (literally ready to go, just riding through the horseboxes to get to XC warm up when someone told me she had a nosebleed, it was a teensy smear, first time ever, but I w/d immediately)... the next year we did a CCI*** LF in searing heat, no nosebleed. she never had another one.
The other horse had one a few times every year or so, but never in competition (incl 2* LF). He was 'scoped and the vet said it was a tiny polyp causing it.
It's random, and totally unfair... but would I expect to get a place on a team with a horse that might have a bleed, however minor, in public? No. Sorry, I feel for Sinead hugely, I think she and Tate are absolutely fantastic and I was really looking forward to seeing them at Greenwich, & I thought their inclusion was in the bag... but I can understand the selector's viewpoint I think.
Roll on the Games, it's going to be some competition.
(btw, the whisper is, the course is 2 weeks behind schedule - maybe due to the terrible weather we're having over here, more cancellations today.) :( :( :(

snoopy
Jul. 4, 2012, 02:06 PM
UGH!!See fiction gets it all wrong! It was a husband. But hey better to swap it to protect the innocent.

~Emily


Actually.....it was a kiwi who did indeed "steal" the medalist's wife. He could have just asked for her as medalist would have happily handed her over. ;)

IFG
Jul. 4, 2012, 02:19 PM
Actually.....it was a kiwi who did indeed "steal" the medalist's wife. He could have just asked for her as medalist would have happily handed her over. ;)

Thought so. And it is admittedly trash.. but hey, it is summer, what else do you read in the summer?

Xctrygirl
Jul. 4, 2012, 02:28 PM
OK my gossip mill memories may not be the most accurate.

Meh. I care about how they treat their horses and customers in business. And I can say with 100% assurity that if what was rumored is true the poor woman that tried for the hubby, as my experiences showed he is a complete asshat. And I re-iterate I will move to Canada if I ever try for a team in Eventing. (Equally unlikely)



~Emily

Xctrygirl
Jul. 4, 2012, 03:24 PM
Ohhhh forgot completely about William Fox Pitt's Wife and Andrew Nicholson.

Whoops...

~Emily

IFG
Jul. 4, 2012, 03:29 PM
Ohhhh forgot completely about William Fox Pitt's Wife and Andrew Nicholson.

Whoops... I was thinking of US Gold Medallists.

~Emily

Now that's a scandal that I haven't heard of....

Xctrygirl
Jul. 4, 2012, 03:39 PM
His first girlfriend and first wife, Wiggy Channer, stepped into the breach when he left home at 24, organising her life to accommodate his career. Wiggy's affair with eventer Andrew Nicholson brought an end to the four-year marriage, and in the book, these moments get a frank treatment: William describes the 'torment' he felt and the 'moments of vacillation' when he wondered if he and Wiggy should stay together. 'I wasn't prepared to write this book unless it was open.'


From : http://www.countrylife.co.uk/countryside/pursuits/article/144705/Interview-William-Fox-Pitt.html

Many pages of tidbits of this thanks to British tabloids.

IFG
Jul. 4, 2012, 04:14 PM
His first girlfriend and first wife, Wiggy Channer, stepped into the breach when he left home at 24, organising her life to accommodate his career. Wiggy's affair with eventer Andrew Nicholson brought an end to the four-year marriage, and in the book, these moments get a frank treatment: William describes the 'torment' he felt and the 'moments of vacillation' when he wondered if he and Wiggy should stay together. 'I wasn't prepared to write this book unless it was open.'


From : http://www.countrylife.co.uk/countryside/pursuits/article/144705/Interview-William-Fox-Pitt.html

Many pages of tidbits of this thanks to British tabloids.

That one I knew, it was the US one to which you alluded. But probably best left unsaid.

vineyridge
Jul. 4, 2012, 05:14 PM
Okay, now I'm totally lost. The only US eventing gold individual medallist was DOC.

Somebody, please clue me in. PM will work.

FLeventer
Jul. 4, 2012, 05:41 PM
Okay, now I'm totally lost. The only US eventing gold individual medallist was DOC.

Somebody, please clue me in. PM will work.

Me as well!

SnicklefritzG
Jul. 4, 2012, 05:44 PM
Now you've got us all curious!

Xctrygirl
Jul. 4, 2012, 05:47 PM
LOL Sorry guys.

I thought most knew about the rumors out there.

If you don't... I will just say "oh well."

Not up for a case of libel.

~Emily

snoopy
Jul. 4, 2012, 06:00 PM
LOL Sorry guys.

I thought most knew about the rumors out there.

If you don't... I will just say "oh well."

Not up for a case of libel.

~Emily



I know what you are talking about and best to move on from this topic.....;)

Lord Helpus
Jul. 4, 2012, 06:16 PM
I am utterly gutted for Sinead BUT i really do suspect that the nosebleed, however minor, was the total deal breaker. With current hysteria about any blood (and that ridiculous situation of pulling up poor Becky Holder at Rolex for a tiny scrape) they just can't risk it.
fwiw I've had 2 eventers that had the tiniest smear of a nosebleed occasionally. One had it once on the way down to Adv XC start (literally ready to go, just riding through the horseboxes to get to XC warm up when someone told me she had a nosebleed, it was a teensy smear, first time ever, but I w/d immediately)... the next year we did a CCI*** LF in searing heat, no nosebleed. she never had another one.
The other horse had one a few times every year or so, but never in competition (incl 2* LF). He was 'scoped and the vet said it was a tiny polyp causing it.
It's random, and totally unfair... but would I expect to get a place on a team with a horse that might have a bleed, however minor, in public? No. Sorry, I feel for Sinead hugely, I think she and Tate are absolutely fantastic and I was really looking forward to seeing them at Greenwich, & I thought their inclusion was in the bag... but I can understand the selector's viewpoint I think.
Roll on the Games, it's going to be some competition.
(btw, the whisper is, the course is 2 weeks behind schedule - maybe due to the terrible weather we're having over here, more cancellations today.) :( :( :(

As an outsider who only knows what she reads, I agree about the bleeding.

What I got out of Sinead's blog/ post/tweet, was that she knew about the allergies, and had been keeping the bleeding under control so well that TPTB did not even know Tate had the possibiity of having a nose bleed.

When he did bleed, and the backstory came out, it seems to me that the selectors had little choice but to leave her off the team. ESPECIALLY for an event held with the whole world watching, and the fact that the bleeding is (obviously) not 100% controlled.

Who knows -- maybe if Sinead had been more open with the condition, so that the selectors had known about it for years, a little blood would not have had the same effect as it did when the bleeding caught them by surprise.

But, as a fan and a rooter of the US team, I am glad that we do not have to worry about the ramifications of putting a horse with a bleeding issue on the team.

Obviously, it is incredibly sad for those concerned. But, looking at the facts as they have been presented on this thread, it should not have been as startling to the insiders as it was to us on the outside.

SnicklefritzG
Jul. 4, 2012, 06:17 PM
^^ How much of this is for reasons related to the horse's health vs. dealing with nutjobs from PETA and the like?

vineyridge
Jul. 4, 2012, 06:25 PM
My imagination is running wild. If Emily's asshat is the person I'm contemplating, who would be so desperate as to want him? I take it the Kiwi returned to New Zealand?

snoopy
Jul. 4, 2012, 06:28 PM
:p

JP60
Jul. 4, 2012, 06:32 PM
But, as a fan and a rooter of the US team, I am glad that we do not have to worry about the ramifications of putting a horse with a bleeding issue on the team.

This is so weird to read. Every horse, heck every human has a bleeding issue, it comes from those moments when we get cut or a blood vessel pops...either is uncontrollable. If there is even one gray horse on course and said gray horse scrapes a knee and starts to bleed, does the whole world gasp, then point a finger at the rider and say "You are so cruel"...come on. SOme will, most wont and there should be, in place, a fair protocol to handle that moment.

Sinead should only have told the TD that her horse has allergies that may cause a nose bleed and if it happens on course she will accept an inspection (if she can continue). We cannot control what will be, and to say that she got dropped because her horse has the potential to bleed is grossly unfair to her and to Tate. What will freak people out will be the rotational falls, the slams into big fences, and the worst, an injured horse or rider. None, repeat, None of that can be controlled, thus is eventing. Bleeding is a part of this sport and I am 100% sure that each and every rider at this level has the best interest of the horse in the forefront of their minds. Like a pilot of an airplane, they will be the first ones to the crash site so best to know your horse and ensure it is well tended.

ACMEeventing
Jul. 4, 2012, 06:46 PM
This is so weird to read. Every horse, heck every human has a bleeding issue, it comes from those moments when we get cut or a blood vessel pops...either is uncontrollable. If there is even one gray horse on course and said gray horse scrapes a knee and starts to bleed, does the whole world gasp, then point a finger at the rider and say "You are so cruel"...come on. SOme will, most wont and there should be, in place, a fair protocol to handle that moment.

Sinead should only have told the TD that her horse has allergies that may cause a nose bleed and if it happens on course she will accept an inspection (if she can continue). We cannot control what will be, and to say that she got dropped because her horse has the potential to bleed is grossly unfair to her and to Tate. What will freak people out will be the rotational falls, the slams into big fences, and the worst, an injured horse or rider. None, repeat, None of that can be controlled, thus is eventing. Bleeding is a part of this sport and I am 100% sure that each and every rider at this level has the best interest of the horse in the forefront of their minds. Like a pilot of an airplane, they will be the first ones to the crash site so best to know your horse and ensure it is well tended.

Innocuous bleeding IS a part of this sport. It is also a reason to get DQ'd on the spot. A scrape on the shin from grazing the shrubs is one thing, blood in the airway (even slight) is something completely different to the FEI. Refer to my earlier post. The judge that rang out the potential gold medalist at WEG for dressage said it was the worst moment in her life. It doesn't matter if after the fact you can show the horse is in good health,if you get pulled up for a bit of blood in the froth your day is over. Is it right or fair? Is it excessive and a product of animal rights zealots? Probably yes to all.

Falls will happen and crowds will gasp, that is true. But a horse with a know potential to bleed (even if ever so slightly) IS a bigger risk, not because of finger pointing crowds, but because of the FEI zero tolerance policy. Not saying that is what kept her off, although I kind of hope it was. I would hate to think that she got passed over for a non-horse related reason. I was rooting for her.

kerilli
Jul. 5, 2012, 07:11 AM
Innocuous bleeding IS a part of this sport. It is also a reason to get DQ'd on the spot. A scrape on the shin from grazing the shrubs is one thing, blood in the airway (even slight) is something completely different to the FEI.
But a horse with a know potential to bleed (even if ever so slightly) IS a bigger risk, not because of finger pointing crowds, but because of the FEI zero tolerance policy. Not saying that is what kept her off, although I kind of hope it was. I would hate to think that she got passed over for a non-horse related reason. I was rooting for her.

^^^ All this, absolutely.
Also, a little smear of blood is one thing (albeit, under zero tolerance, a BIG thing), a true bleed from the lungs (which I've never witnessed but have been told is horrible) is something else. One might become the other, at least in the public's mind...

I am itching to know about the old news/gossip, so if anyone would pm me i'd be very grateful. sorry, can't help being nosey even if it is ancient news!

snoopy
Jul. 5, 2012, 11:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVl5taJmjpA&feature=youtu.be



She talks about consistency and mistakes. Well said Ginny.

JP60
Jul. 5, 2012, 11:56 AM
Innocuous bleeding IS a part of this sport. It is also a reason to get DQ'd on the spot. A scrape on the shin from grazing the shrubs is one thing, blood in the airway (even slight) is something completely different to the FEI. Refer to my earlier post. The judge that rang out the potential gold medalist at WEG for dressage said it was the worst moment in her life. It doesn't matter if after the fact you can show the horse is in good health,if you get pulled up for a bit of blood in the froth your day is over. Is it right or fair? Is it excessive and a product of animal rights zealots? Probably yes to all.

Falls will happen and crowds will gasp, that is true. But a horse with a know potential to bleed (even if ever so slightly) IS a bigger risk, not because of finger pointing crowds, but because of the FEI zero tolerance policy. Not saying that is what kept her off, although I kind of hope it was. I would hate to think that she got passed over for a non-horse related reason. I was rooting for her.
This just amazes me and please understand, I am close to a zealot when it comes to the care of horses. I'd take Tate, a "known risk", any day and tomorrow even if he pops a small capallary, because in the end we don't know enough about these horses to understand or predict when something bad will happen. Hickstead comes to mind, but as well the two that died at a recent show).

To have a zero tolerance policy in a sport where bleeding can happen at any time is not an intelligent application of concern, it is more of the same knee jerk reactions we have everywhere today. OMG, What will PETA scream about?

I know this sounds absurd, but would the same combination of rider/horse get stopped if the rider had blood coming down the face, blood coming from some obvious spot. If not does that means we care less about the rider?

In the example you mentioned, a fair approach may have been to stop the rider, have the nose checked out by a vet at the cost to the rider if they wish to continue. If the horse is cleared then they be allowed to start the test from the point they were stopped. To be eliminated because of a minor bleed that can be managed is grossly unfair.

Yes, we need to always consider the welfare of the horse for that is our responsibility, but there are better ways then knee-jerk, over the top reactions. Becky got robbed of her chance, Sinead as well and I personally feel our "team" is the less for it as is our sport.

OverandOnward
Jul. 5, 2012, 12:06 PM
A discussion that is generally relevant in the sport ... but ...

The bleeding may or may not be why she wasn't selected. This is all speculation. From what she's released publicly, Sinead hasn't been told why. No one has officially said why. She's guessing and so is this discussion. Which is what people do in the absence of hard information, which is why it is usually better to release hard information.

Nicola and Opposition Buzz are now on the British team. I was among those disappointed for her not to have been included in the first selection. But, even now, to go in the Olympics they still have to make it to the first inspection healthy and ready ... as does every team member of every team.

I don't wish ill on anyone else, but attrition is almost inevitable, for reasons as yet unknown. There is a still a high probability that Sinead will get to ride in the Olympics, particularly if potential bleeding is not why she wasn't in the first pick.



Here's another thought on another subject - might be totally crass but I'll just adopt it anyway. Not knowing any show-stoppers that are going on with Neville, I'd say either Neville or Otis are equally valid picks for Boyd.

NBC is ready to go with the Big Dramatic Neville Story - there is even a little note about it still on their website (Forget that some of the NBC version. was somewhat romanticized ... if that's not exactly how it happened, it oughta be! :D ) Not going with Neville is throwing away exposure for the U.S. sport no money can buy. And he had a great run in England at Burghley. Gotta get Neville on the team, pronto, cuz NBC is already scheduling what they will cover ---- and what they will not. And then call the NBC producers and tell them! :cool: (With apologies to the supporters of Otis, a very fine and (I'm sure) equally deserving event horse.)

eventamy
Jul. 5, 2012, 12:29 PM
Infusing a different thought into this mix:

Why is Karen considered such a "low risk"?

Atlanta Olympics: 20 XC faults
Aachen WEG: 40 XC faults
Hong Kong Olympics: 40 XC faults

This. I cannot help but get that "OH SHIT!" feeling every time I see Karen go with MR. M. I watched them go at Rolex and while I am a huge fan and have worshiped her in my younger days, I am scared out of my mind for her with this horse. Their partnership has improved. Some. But he is SO strong on XC that I just hope they can hold it together and not get hurt or worse. She is the only one on the team that I question at this point. I would be very concerned as a spectator at XC with the narrow galloping lanes etc when KOC and Mr. M go on course, I would keep your dogs and small children away from the lanes!

I am beyond thrilled for Will and Twizzel, I was literally jumping around with my daughters when he made the team. I am very sad for Sinead and Allison though.

I will be glued to my TV and computer screens come July/August! Go Team USA Eventing!