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OneGrayPony
Jun. 18, 2012, 06:53 PM
I see halter horse here...but what would you expect from a horse bred like this?

My horse's bloodline (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&horse=MY+BUDDY+BEAR&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=)

I'll admit I don't know a thing about stock horse bloodlines other than Impressive (which I do know about) and Three Bars.

So, if you were to buy a horse like this, what would you expect him to do? I'm assuming these are all very common bloodlines?

qhwpmare
Jun. 18, 2012, 07:52 PM
I would expect him to be a pretty moving pleasure type horse.

Bluey
Jun. 18, 2012, 08:36 PM
Having Impressive in the breeding, I would first be sure the horse is HYPP N/N or be talking to your vet about what to do if not, as good management can keep most attacks at bay.

Much of the breeding is show horse.

Looking at that, your horse ought to be big and good looking.:)

Tamara in TN
Jun. 18, 2012, 10:07 PM
it's all running blood except for the impressive on the bottom

some of the nicest horses I ever knew personally, were a Win or Lose son...named CCF Roll the Dice and the other was a stallion named Stony Bar...he was a Three Bars son...with a SI of 99

they were classically done QH before the age of the double muscle,tiny foot,mutants

chiseled w/o draft....fire w/o stupidity....smooth quiet movers and a lope that ate the ground


I very much preferred them to Sonny Dee Bar and his kin,many of which are still around this area

Tamara

Bluey
Jun. 18, 2012, 10:30 PM
The Azure Te were very good runners, we had some of them, but those are way back there.
Te N Te was one of his sons that became a show leading sire, producing many excellently minded show horses, that did what you wanted and didn't burn out.
Many of today's western pleasure horses go back to him.

We also had some Boston Macs, but at the track they were not well thought of, had soundness issues and skin problems and also some were flighty.
They were good runners, many made later good barrel racers, if you managed their nervous disposition well.
The few we tried to make ranch horses, well, they just didn't hold up too well physically or mentally, not compared with many other more stable lines.

I think that Boston Mac was a genetic "sport", a combination of normal genes that crossed a certain way to be expressed way differently than any one alone would have and passed those on to some of his offspring, that is why they had a bit of a reputation at the tracks.

We can talk forever about lines and their traits, but when you have an individual in front of you, all bets are off, he is what he is.

Tamara in TN
Jun. 18, 2012, 10:41 PM
Well true...I almost discounted the whole thing when I saw Ratchett there...

first I hate most paints anyway,as they are just color breeding but with Ratchett we/they were already heading in to that stupid, but oh so trendy, breeding bit of tiny legs,cannons and pasterns to hold up the horse above....

once bone is bred out it can never be replaced esp on a damline

the other horses that I knew in that pedigree did not suffer from that

Tamara

goneriding24
Jun. 18, 2012, 10:48 PM
You have a little of everything going on, blood-wise. I'd say you may have a pleasuring fool on your hands, with some size (Azure Te). As for his temperament, that's a toss-up, you have Sonny Dee Bar and then the Zan Parr Bar too. I looked farther back and it's still a mixed salad of horses.

As Bluey said, he is what he is.

threedogpack
Jun. 19, 2012, 12:38 AM
I'd say you probably have a nice all arounder.

I know some have said they didn't like Rachett, but he's pretty well known in Paint horses.

go to Allbreedpedigree dot com and plug in some of the names. Then go to the little i button on top to see what information they have on them.

some of these well known studs are also on qhd dot com

OveroHunter
Jun. 19, 2012, 08:35 AM
Your horse is very well bred and I gotta say I'm a little jealous! I love Scotch Bar Tommy horses for the hunter ring :yes:

I would love to see pics of your horse :D

Ratchett has sired some decent horses and I haven't heard too much bad about him.

Bluey
Jun. 19, 2012, 08:50 AM
Your horse is very well bred and I gotta say I'm a little jealous! I love Scotch Bar Tommy horses for the hunter ring :yes:

I would love to see pics of your horse :D

Ratchett has sired some decent horses and I haven't heard too much bad about him.

One fly in that ointment, if the Impressive there is not HYPP N/N, it is all for naught.

There is no excuse today to have any HYPP other than N/N in any horse.

Quit supporting those that still think it is ok to take chances with such a serious disease and we will maybe eventually eliminate it.

RRD
Jun. 19, 2012, 09:30 AM
I'd say you probably have a nice all arounder.


Agreed..... TE N' TE :yes: hubba hubba...

OveroHunter
Jun. 19, 2012, 10:12 AM
One fly in that ointment, if the Impressive there is not HYPP N/N, it is all for naught.

There is no excuse today to have any HYPP other than N/N in any horse.

Quit supporting those that still think it is ok to take chances with such a serious disease and we will maybe eventually eliminate it.

Excuse me, but are you suggesting that I support the breeding of HYPP N/H or H/H horses? It has already been suggested to the OP that she needed to get him tested by several people and I did not feel the need the reinterate that. Get your facts straight before jumping to conclusions.

OneGrayPony
Jun. 19, 2012, 10:19 AM
Thanks all - it's really interesting to learn about these sides. I have looked at the stallions information, but coming from the hunter world (non breed) it's hard to tell what I'm really looking at!!!

He's a gelding, and I didn't get him from his breeder, but you can rest assured, Bluey, that I'm going to have him tested and I'm currently managing him as though he were HYPP because of the Impressive in there (better to be safe than sorry).

Interestingly the Paint Horse Association has not made testing mandatory, which is probably a whole 'nother thread. I was a little surprised (in not a good way) that they didn't require it and that the information was not on any of the close-up stallions. Color me naive but I didn't think to look at his papers really at all before I bought him, because I would have thought if it were an issue, they'd require it.

He's not all that big at this point (5 yo), maybe sticks at 14.2/14.3 (I didn't bother) but he has a lot of growing and filling out to do. He looks fairly immature, mostly because of a lack of muscle and weight. He was started late for a QH/Paint (not until he was 4), was ridden for a few months intermittently on the trail and then turned back out to pasture. I've known his last two owners and it wasn't for any fault of his own, just circumstantial that he didn't get ridden much.

He's definitely more of a western type than english and now that I look at the WP conformation he is built like that. He naturally carries himself very very level to a bit below level even though he's not high behind. I finally got him to trot on the longe (it was an effort, I have grass and he seemed to think eating was way more fun than working) and he does have that sticky sort of movement - not a lot of suspension. Nice long strided canter though.

Personality is amazing, but it's been awhile since I've had a QH-type. He's super willing, super quiet and super unflappable. Loves to go out on the trail. Nothing bothers him, pretty much at all.

One thing he is NOT is fast. When he arrived he worried a bit and trotted and cantered around the pasture. It was the slowest most mellow canter (outside of the WP I've watched) even though he was a little worked up about being in a new place with no horses (he's the only one I have at home right now).

At any rate, I didn't buy him for his bloodlines nor for his color (he is flashy though!), I bought him because he was the first horse in a long time that I threw a leg over and felt 100% comfortable about riding. I bought him because I could mount from the ground (yay!) and because he and I seemed to click well.

Anyway, that was a novella - I'm excited to be over here in the western and stock horse world and I'm learning a lot! I know I can look at bloodline accomplishments, but I would like to learn deeper. I know quite a bit about hunter stallions and how they roll/what they produce/what to expect, but I feel like a beginner all over again - which is really cool :)

OveroHunter, I've been trying to get a good picture of him ever since he arrived. One issue is that his two favorite things to do are to be in my pocket or to eat, neither of which makes a pretty (nor terribly representative) picture, and I never have anyone to help me set him up and/or take a picture at the same time! I'll try again to get one, but the majority of the pictures that I've managed to take are of him eating. Sooner or later I'll get one that actually shows his conformation and I will share it!

Bluey
Jun. 19, 2012, 11:59 AM
Excuse me, but are you suggesting that I support the breeding of HYPP N/H or H/H horses? It has already been suggested to the OP that she needed to get him tested by several people and I did not feel the need the reinterate that. Get your facts straight before jumping to conclusions.

That was a general comment, not directed at anyone in particular.:)
I do see how you took it directed at you, should have made that more clear.

To take a picture, how about tying him to something, a fence, the trailer?
He sounds like a lovely horse.
While many in his breeding are not short horses, more about 15.1-2 hands, there are some others that he may have taken after and stay shorter.
If he fits you, everything else is moot question.:yes:

We would love to see pictures.:cool:

BayRoan
Jun. 19, 2012, 12:08 PM
Glad you have a horse that you like!

I pulled the AQHA records for his maternal grand dam and her sire, and they were not HYPP tested. Being a 1986 model and a 1979 model, they were way before AQHA required testing, but sometimes you'll get lucky and find a test result if a mare produced late in her career. I thought I'd give it a shot for you.

Good luck with your boy. :-)

OveroHunter
Jun. 19, 2012, 01:20 PM
Thanks Bluey, it's all good :) I'm actually very against breeding HYPP N/H or H/H horses so the idea of being accused of perpetuating the HYPP problem is abhorrent to me.

I looked at Bringing Light to HYPP and it looks like your horses grandsire, Inspirative, was N/H. I don't know how accurate their lists are, but definitely worth a $25 test.

What do you plan on doing with him? He could still grow a lot. My horse grew another inch taller and about 12 inches wider after he turned 5 ;) He's a fatty, but he's my fatty :)

spotsinabox
Jun. 20, 2012, 01:11 PM
I agree, I think you would have a nice all-arounder ... I don't think the Rachett Parr horses were ever very big, but you might pick up some size from his sire.

You might want to also test him for PSSM.

OneGrayPony
Jun. 20, 2012, 03:00 PM
Well, I bought him to use as a confidence builder and trail horse :) Which is something he's DEFINITELY fulfilling.

To make a long story short, I had lost my confidence after a series of accidents with some green and troubled horses (something I used to have no issues with), and he's just perfect. Even when he misbehaves, it's really pathetic, so I get the doubley good experience of being able to work through the issue without my heart pounding in my chest and panic-attacking. It was getting so bad that if the horse just flicked an ear it would cause an attack and I almost considered quitting riding altogether. Which would have been devastating.

Getting out of the english saddle helped but getting out on the trails and generally just feeling comfortable again has been worth his purchase price, really really valuable. So even if he never does anything else, he's worth it, kwim?

As far as what else I'd like to do...I'd like to try some things out. I don't know much about the western disciplines having been in the USEF world all my life (eventers, then hunters), and so I'm in with my eyes wide-open trying to learn :)

Trail class is definitely one that we'll work on (because those skills are necessary for us) and we might do some Halter/Showmanship classes. I enjoyed the pace of the Pleasure classes that I saw on the AQHA videos (of how to do WP "correctly") but...

There's a WP trainer nearby who seems well-respected, but I'm still trying to "get over" some of the things I saw all the WP trainers do at the AQHA show that I attended. None of them were horrible things, really, but they were definitely different than what I'm used to seeing. Lots of bumping the bit and jiggling the reins somewhat more harshly than I'd expect with a shanked bit. I would expect a lift, given that I know that they've taught them to lower their heads with the lift of the reins, but it was...a lot more than just lifting.

**Please note, this is not a slam on breed shows, Western Pleasure Trainers etc. I do realize that people do bad things in my former world too...I just knew which was what :) **

This guy is really sensitive to the bridle and very soft and responsive, so I'm very cautious about who I would let "train" him. I'd prefer it to be me, working with someone who knows what's what - but I haven't found that yet. I was trained originally by a wonderful *real* cowboy from North Dakota to back and break youngstock, and I'd like to find that kind of touch to help me finish a western horse (we didn't get that far and he moved away).

Babbling again sorry - I need to listen more than I talk!

OneGrayPony
Jun. 20, 2012, 03:01 PM
Oh - and thanks for the PSSM suggestion. I'm quite familiar with that from my drafties - seems like with a big butt come these issues, eh?

spotsinabox
Jun. 20, 2012, 05:54 PM
LOL ..gosh hope that doesn't apply to humans... Yep, as far as I know the HYPP and the PSSM are the only dominant problems ... the HERDA, GBED, OLWS, are recessive and can be managed in the breeding shed.

At one time I had heard the Sonny Dee Bar line was a carrier of PSSM, but I don't know that it has ever really been proven. It's just easier to have them tested :)

OneGrayPony
Jun. 20, 2012, 09:42 PM
Yea I was just reading about the OLWS. It's of particular interest to me because he is a frame overo and they left him a stud for a long time (rest assured, he is no longer able and does not have foals on the ground).

Even though that's recessive, it's a scary genetic flaw!

I did meet a mare with HERDA once. Her owner was a vet and "saved her" because she wasn't all that bad (as far as HERDA goes). I don't know that the mare was ever going to become useful in any way, but I thought that particular mutation was fascinating and horribly maladaptive.

What I don't know/understand is why we know/understand these things in the QH/Paint/ApHC breeds, but I've not heard of too many of those types of genetic issues in TBs (and I would assume that their numbers are similar). I know there are many other issues that TBs have related to conformation (such as the lower leg weaknesses in the Northern Dancer lines), but rarely a freak gene like HERDA, HYPP or OLWS. Am I just not in the know?