Washing your hands after checking the mail? HUH?

[ErinB]

My mom is a confirmed Anthrax phobic. Not only will she throw away all my horse catalogs coming from any of the "Anthrax areas" (I just lost an Equine USA catalog, guess I'll have to use the website), she now makes me wash my hands after checking the mail. With antibacterial soap. To diminish her worries, I have offered to search for and use antiAnthrax soap instead. She did not find it funny. I think she's paranoid. She has not left the news since 9/11 (seriously, she leaves the TV on when she goes outside, takes a shower, uses the computer, exercises, reads the newspaper, does the laundry, bakes cookies. I think she's forgotten how to turn it off.) Many times I've innocently thought that my mom was not within hearing range of the TV and tried to catch two minutes of OLN, whereupon my mother (apparently equipped with radar) will emerge from hiding like a vicious beast, clad only in her bathrobe, and immediately order me to change it back. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

So, is everyone here washing their hands after checking the mail? Throwing out your catalogs? What if your bills come from NY?
I haven't been following the news much (odd, since our TV is tuned to it 24/7, but I figure my mom absorbs enough for everyone), so I don't know if that's the thing to do or not, but I did hear that our chances of contracting Anthrax are less than the odds of winning the lottery.

~Erin

[ErinB]

My mom is a confirmed Anthrax phobic. Not only will she throw away all my horse catalogs coming from any of the "Anthrax areas" (I just lost an Equine USA catalog, guess I'll have to use the website), she now makes me wash my hands after checking the mail. With antibacterial soap. To diminish her worries, I have offered to search for and use antiAnthrax soap instead. She did not find it funny. I think she's paranoid. She has not left the news since 9/11 (seriously, she leaves the TV on when she goes outside, takes a shower, uses the computer, exercises, reads the newspaper, does the laundry, bakes cookies. I think she's forgotten how to turn it off.) Many times I've innocently thought that my mom was not within hearing range of the TV and tried to catch two minutes of OLN, whereupon my mother (apparently equipped with radar) will emerge from hiding like a vicious beast, clad only in her bathrobe, and immediately order me to change it back. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

So, is everyone here washing their hands after checking the mail? Throwing out your catalogs? What if your bills come from NY?
I haven't been following the news much (odd, since our TV is tuned to it 24/7, but I figure my mom absorbs enough for everyone), so I don't know if that's the thing to do or not, but I did hear that our chances of contracting Anthrax are less than the odds of winning the lottery.

~Erin

[spaz]

I don't wash my hands after I check the mail...

Ah, for once those millions of current events that I had to do this weekend are coming in handy! There is a very small chance of us getting Anthrax, and I don't think that they would send them to your over-populated city?

http://jrsclique.proboards.com/index.cgi
Junior Clique!

*What if the Hokey-Pokey IS what it's all about?*

[HN73]

Considering I am right out side of DC, yes, I wash my hands after getting and opening mail.

I haven't thrown anything away that I wouldn't have normally though.

[poltroon]

You're more likely to die in an auto accident, or from the side effects of prescribed medication, than from anthrax or a terrorist attack, even in 2001.

Heck, you're probably endangering your life more from that burger & fries you had for lunch than from checking the mail. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[JAGold]

That's a hypothetical question for me right now, as I currently don't get any mail either at home or at work. When delivery resumes, my mail will have been re-routed to avoid Brentwood and irradiated in Ohio...

--Jess

[dublin]

Hate to say it, but I think your mother seriously needs to get a grip! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Ditto to what everyone else has said with respect to your slim to none chances of getting anthrax-tainted mail. (Although Mr. dublin might want to use that excuse as a reason for tossing some of the many horse catalogs and magazines I get on what seems to be a daily basis!!!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Like a commercial I've seen on TV says....

LIVE BRAVE

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
Still proud to be a UCLA Bruins football fan!

[Jen West]

are useless. We've never been attacked with anthrax before. Yes, I ALWAYS wash my hands after checking the mail- the Postmaster General said to and if the Postmaster General will admit there's that big of a problem then I'm going to do it. Two more people have died this week and one more has contracted inhalation anthrax. Anthrax is nothing to sneeze at. The first symptom in peracute anthrax is death (THEN you bleed from every hole in your body). OTH, Anthrax is an easily controlled bacillus IFF you actually use the anti-biotics.

Not only do I not OPEN any mail that I don't need to open, including bills as we are on autopay for everything, I unwrap packages outside and I throw all unwanted mail away outside and I throw envelopes away outside- no unopened mail NEEDS to come into my (crowded and messy) house. When people stop dying, or when the rate of deaths decrease instead of increase exponentially, I will not be so cautious. When fewer and fewer mail sorting centers are contaminated instead of more and more, I will not be so cautious. I am not at all concerned that anyone will actually deliberately send anthrax to me, but I am concerned that the anthrax spores may have hitched a ride through a mail sorter and been rubbed off onto my mail.

I also have a moderate sized bottle of Cipro and a HUGE bottle of penicillin on hand- CDC may be able to get drugs to people within twelve hours, but a) Will they? and b) Twelve hours from exposure is plenty of time to contract and to die of anthrax.

I would listen to my mother and hope all of my important catalogs show up on-line. Another attack is planned soon, this week I hear (from the government officials whose sad duty it is to spread the word), and if it's Smallpox through the mail- not an impossible thought- we all may wish we had been even more careful.

[Rosey]

Your mum is not crazy. Maybe over doing it a little. Some points to consider:
1. Anthrax can live upto 90 years in dirt
2. Anthrax can live upto 75 years in silk cloth
3. Anthrax is in the form of spores, they spread very easily and are very tough to get ride of.
4. All postal workers...regardless of the population size, have been given gloves and masks to wear when sorting mail. My local post office, town of about 80, even has them.
5. Envelopes are not completely sealed...so anthrax can easily be spread through out the mail.
6. Better safe than sorry!!!
Yes, in case you are wondering, I am very careful when opening my mail...its called medical gloves!!
Oh, I am sure you have all heard of "Anthrax Island", but if you haven't...I'll be more than happy to tell the story.

[coco]

O.K. Rosey -- I'll bite. Tell us the story of "Anthrax Island".

[Jen West]

But keep in mind that Anthrax is a bacteria, which is Good, not a virus, which would be Bad.

[Erin]

Jen West... 12 hours is NOT plenty of time to contract and die of anthrax. The incubation period is 2 to 7 days. Treatment is most successful if begun in the first 48 hours, however.

The risk of a regular person contacting anthrax from inadvertently contaminated mail is infinitessimal. Postal workers are being given gloves and masks because they handle TONS of mail every day, so their risk is exponentially larger. Not to mention that the mail is going through high speed machinery and spores are much more likely to become airborne in that environment than by you taking the mail out of your mailbox.

Can the Post Office guarantee that every piece of mail is spore free? Nope. But did you know that in much of this country, there are already spores living in the soil? Anthrax is endemic here.

If washing your hands makes you feel better, go for it. But statistically, the chances are very, very remote that you're doing anything more than boosting the sales of antibacterial soap. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

All About Anthrax (http://www.vetcentric.com/magazine/magazineArticle.cfm?ArticleID=1536)

The CDC's general information page about anthrax (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/anthrax_g.htm)

[Palomino19]

My mother too has been hit by the 9/11 bug. She is absolutely convinced and telling everyone she knows that we had terrorists on our flight to Canada this summer. Why? They were middle eastern, two of them traveled together but sat apart, and one was writing (or as she says "taking notes!"). It's a hot topic of discussion in my study hall /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif She has also had me washing my hands after opening the mail, which I originally dismissed as another of her pre-senility ramblings until...

My physics teacher told our class that anthrax spores are about 5 (nanometers or micrometers) across, the holes in paper (like envelopes) are 100 nm across. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Don't tell my mom but I wash my hands now /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jess

[Rosey]

Anthrax, also known as woolsorter's disease, is a biological organism. It is a rod-patterened, gram-positive, sporulating organism. Anthrax is a significant health concern when in the spore form. It can remain dormant for hundreds of years as a spore until a proper host comes along for it to invade. Anthrax spores are virtually indestructible.
During World War II the British started their BW program to counter suspected Japanese and German biological threats. Research centered around anthrax and involved an island off the coast, known as Gruinard Island. This paticular island was chosen because it was believed to be far enough off the coast to prevent migration of the anthrax to the mainland during dissemination, which later proved to be incorrect. Testing revolved around the use of conventional bombs and the viability and "range of spread" of anthrax when disseminated. Information generated from the tests on Gruinard Island was used by the U.S. and Britian to develop bombs that could effectively disseminate the anthrax spores. In 1943, there was an outbreak of anthrax on the coast of Scotland facing Gruinard Island which prompted the British to stop the testing. Contamination of the island as a result of the testing remains to this day and has rendered the island uninhabitable. Decontamination of the island was atempted by starting a brush fire to kill the spores on the surface of the ground. This effort proved ineffective when the spores "burrowed" themselves into the soil, which makes decontamination of the island virtually impossible.
Anthrax spores are very persistant, resist adverse environmental elements, and remain viable for hundreds of years in the soil and dried or processed hides. Spores are very resistant to drying, heat, and sunlight. Spores have been known to survive in milk for up to 10 years, on dried filter paper for 41 years, on dried silk threads for up to 71 years, and in pond water for 2 years.
Human-to-human contact has not been documented and is thought to be unlikely. Infection occurs from skin contact. The bacterium enters a cut or abrasion on the skin.Symptoms include the formation of carbuncles (inflammation of hair follicles and surrounding subcutaneous tissue) and swelling at the located of the infection. Scabs form over the lesion and turn black as coal. Anthrax is the Greek term for coal, and so the name is derived from the coal black scabs on the lesions. This localized infection can also become systemic and transformed to inhalation form of the disease.


Inhalation Exposure occurs from airborne spores in contaminated soil areas, and from fried or processed skins and hides of infected animals. Symptoms from inhalation exposure, depending on the concentration and length of time, will present in two distinct phases. First, spores are carried to the lungs, specifically the avolai within the lungs. This is followed by a pus-producing infection with edema (fluid build-up) and hemorrhage in the lungs. Symptoms are flu-like, including mild fever, myalgia (muscle pain), dry cough, and a feeling of pressure in the chest.

Pardon my errors in my previous message, its been while since I read this!

[strawberrykiwi]

Erin- Thanks for the great links. I just moved from a part of Texas that has Anthrax outbreaks in livestock pretty frequently so your second link was right on the money. I agree that if it makes you feel better, then wash your hands. But skip the antibacterial soap, regular soap and warm water is the best way to wash your hands. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Jen West]

though perhaps I should have said instead "If one inhales enough anthrax one can be dead within twelve hours."

This is a very serious issue. We are at war. We are being attacked at home. The chance that we WILL get anthrax through the mail is not calculable. Yes, in the past the chances of getting anthrax through the mail are very very small, and if you average this in with the present it is still small, but the paradigm just underwent a major change.


The Postmaster General says to wash your hands after you handle the mail. If it weren't a problem the PG would not have mentioned it. I think that the government has a better idea about the size of the problem than most, it is in their best interest to downplay not to exagerate the problem, and if my government is telling me that the problem is BIG and everyone else is saying it's small, well, I'm listening to my government. You can make fun of me and you can make fun of your mother, but if you won't take the simple steps that your government officials are recommending to protect yourself you are not helping to fight this war.

[dogchushu]

The chances do seem to be quite remote. But washing your hands isn't such a bad thing. Do it if it makes mom happy. I wouldn't avoid paying your BILLS however. That's much more likely to get you into trouble! But washing your hands is a small price to pay to have a happy mom! I wish my mother would be happy with such small things. I'm afraid to tell her every time I get the sniffles (which I get a lot in cold weather) because she automatically thinks it's Anthrax!

[lilblackhorse]

washing my hands, and discarding, unopened any stuff I don't like the look of. I really like JenWest's idea of doing it outside, that seems even safer. I saw the program on Anthrax Island-this stuff lasts a lonnnnnnng time, and I am not messing around withit-handwashing is a pretty easy thing to do, which I did a lot already, after handling animals and kids.

"If you haven't gotten where you're going,you probably aren't there yet."-George Carlin

[Palomino19]

lol dogchushu, my mother is trying to convince our family to all get flu shots so we can tell the difference between the flu and "infection" as she calls it /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jess

[Erin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jen West:
though perhaps I should have said instead "If one inhales enough anthrax one can be dead within twelve hours." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not according to the CDC: "Initial symptoms of inhalation anthrax infection may resemble a common cold. After several days, the symptoms may progress to severe breathing problems and shock. Inhalation anthrax is often fatal."

As far as I have read, the peracute form of anthrax is generally seen in cattle. Yes, in this case, the onset of the disease is very rapid and death occurs within hours. But this is still after a period of incubation of at least a day, up to 14 days.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You can make fun of me and you can make fun of your mother, but if you won't take the simple steps that your government officials are recommending to protect yourself you are not helping to fight this war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that's just silly. I could just as easily say that YOU are caving into terrorists (who are most likely home-grown and not at all affiliated with the "evil-doers" of 9/11) by doing what they want -- becoming fearful.

If you want to open your mail outside... hey, go for it. Having looked at the risks, even living within a stone's throw of DC, I've decided not to. So what?

By the way, my personal opinion is that the Post Office is only advocating washing hands because they want the public to feel somehow reassured that they can prevent this. How is washing your hands going to keep you from inhaling something anyway? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I also have a moderate sized bottle of Cipro and a HUGE bottle of penicillin on hand- CDC may be able to get drugs to people within twelve hours, but a) Will they? and b) Twelve hours from exposure is plenty of time to contract and to die of anthrax.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is due to people like you that drugs stop working on people who really need them. When you get a cold and fear anthrax you will take both of those drugs. On people who really need the drugs, they will be rendered useless in a few years because the bacterii will become immune to the drugs. Cipro is a great powerful new drug- it is new so the bactera have little tolerance to it.

Why would you use this drug which causes people who are predisposed to bi-polar disorder to 'come out' with the disease when they didnt previously have symptoms? Why would you use this drug which causes people to have kidney problems?

Hey.. if you want to get a drug, why not get something like tetracycline. It is used for like nothing but skin problems. It is also effective in killing anthrax. Wow, it is even cheap.

-----
http://www.catchride.com

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The Postmaster General says to wash your hands after you handle the mail. If it weren't a problem the PG would not have mentioned it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not a rocket scientist, but how does washing your hands and opening mail outside prevent you from inhaling spores?

Answer- it doesn't. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-----
http://www.catchride.com

[ErinB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Now that's just silly. I could just as easily say that YOU are caving into terrorists (who are most likely home-grown and not at all affiliated with the "evil-doers" of 9/11) by doing what they want -- becoming fearful.

If you want to open your mail outside... hey, go for it. Having looked at the risks, even living within a stone's throw of DC, I've decided not to. So what?

By the way, my personal opinion is that the Post Office is only advocating washing hands because they want the public to feel somehow reassured that they can prevent this. How is washing your hands going to keep you from inhaling something anyway?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree!

I admit, I am generally afraid of everything. I'm afraid to fly (not because of terrorists, I was afraid before then), afraid of food poisioning, afraid to throw up, afraid of wasps, and if I swim past the 4' mark I just know I'm going to drown. So perhaps I'm the least qualified to speak out about this, but that's never stopped me before. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

While I agree about being cautious, I think it's ridiculous the great lengths people are going to in order to "protect" themselves from Anthrax, and terrorism in general.
Statistically, you have about a 1 in 4,000 chance (I think) of being in a car accident. People get in car accidents all the time. What can I do about it? Aside from putting on my seatbelt and driving carefully (or in my case, hoping the person driving drives carefully since I don't yet have my license LOL), there's not much left.
Are car accidents pretty common? Yes. Could I be in a car accident? Yes.
But should I stop riding in cars because I am afraid of car accidents? Well that would be kind of silly. To me, the inconvenience caused by walking everywhere would defeat the purpose of insuring that I don't get in a car accident. And while insuring that I don't get in a car accident, it's possible that I could burn myself on the stove. Or get bit by a llama.

In fact, we as riders have a much greater chance of dying in a horse-related accident. Yet look at us. We all know the risks, but to us taking those risks is better than living a bland, horseless life for fear of hurting ourselves.

So maybe that doesn't exactly apply to Anthrax prevention, since we're not really missing out on something by washing our hands after checking the mail (although like Erin, I do wonder how that could keep you from inhaling it? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif ) What I've been getting at, basically, is that I find it kind of ridiculous to get so extremely worked up over something that will almost certainly never affect you as an individual. In addition to watching the news, if my mom goes anywhere in a car she will tune in to the local talk radio station so that she doesn't miss a thing, and since I'm usually in the car with her, I have to listen as well. One of the more interesting things they've said on that station is that in a recent survey, something like 40% of the population was experiencing marked depression due to the terrorist attacks. A percentage of those people were taking it to extremes, even becoming housebound.

Like Erin said, by doing that, you'd be doing exactly what the terrorists wanted. They WANT us to turn into powerless little weenies with blankets over our heads. We are defeating them if we carry on with our normal lives. Yes, be patriotic, yes, be supportive, yes, be cautious, but personally I am not letting this affect me to the point of throwing out my mail because some middle eastern b@stards actually figured out a way to make the tiniest dent in America. We Americans, they stupid jealous people with funny hats. I am not scared of them.

And that didn't have a whole lot to do with my original topic, but I have nothing better to do. The TV's taken. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

~Erin

[elizabeth]

ErinB, you GO girl!!

I was just going to say that "when it is your time to go, it is your time to go." However, I didn't contemplate the whole llama biting issue . . . I gotta see if I can revise my quote above to incorporate a llama! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

(I totally LOVED your post! And I totally agree with you. As a bonus, your reference to the llama made me giggle!!)

[ErinB]

LOL, thanks Elizabeth. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I don't know where this puts me statistically, but I really have been bit by a llama...

~Erin

[elizabeth]

Oh, dear God, ErinB. You've been BITTEN BY A FREAKIN' LLAMA??

. . . . I can just hear George Bush encouraging the citizens of our great nation to continue about their daily lives as normally as possible: "We can't let these terrorists control us. We can't live in fear. Life goes on for this great nation. I mean, you could be bit by a llama."

LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I like George Bush a LOT. If I could get a job in his administration, I'd got back to DC in a heartbeat.

[ErinB]

Yes, Elizabeth, indeed I have. At a southern Georgia petting zoo, mid-July. I haven't quite gotten over it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Instead of worrying about Anthrax, my time could go into much more productive pursuits, like a petition to ban the evil little buggers from our nations' petting zoos!

Hmmm, now THAT'S a good speech! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~Erin

[dublin]

for the common sense and also the humor which you have injected into this topic!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Thanks, I needed that....

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
Still proud to be a UCLA Bruins football fan!

[Weatherford]

Well, my American home is here in Hopewell, NJ. Haven't gotten any bills lately, because the Hamilton office is the central sorting office for my mail.

No, I am not washing my hands - nor am I wearing gloves to get my mail. If I get flu symptoms, I will go get a test.

I will admit, I have NOT looked at the mail that arrived while I was in CA & Austin that probably went through Hamilton while it was infected but before the infection was found.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jen West:
I also have a moderate sized bottle of Cipro and a HUGE bottle of penicillin on hand- CDC may be able to get drugs to people within twelve hours, but a) Will they? and b) Twelve hours from exposure is plenty of time to contract and to die of anthrax.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jen,

Please be aware before you take either of these drugs that they are powerful and can be dangerous themselves. Someone I know spent nearly a year recovering from side effects of a much milder antibiotic - at the worst of it, she was too weak to have a conversation, and nearly passed out simply walking from the parking lot to pet her horse on the nose. This was AFTER spending several days in the hospital.

Obviously, this is not common, but please don't think that Cipro (or any antibiotic) is without risks - if you know you've been exposed, obviously it's the way to go, but a simple sniffles or muscle ache doesn't warrant it.

Off soapbox!

[Paddys Mom]

Washing your hands is good...it can prevent the spread of viruses. I hate walking around work watching people sneeze and cough and knowing that they aren't going to wash their hands before touching the doorknobs and such. Yuck! So, if you want to wash your hands after opening your mail, great. You are probably helping to keep yourself free of viruses like the common cold and flu.

My question is: Where are all of these people getting the antibiotics from??? I hope my doctor is not handing out prescriptions or samples to everyone who asks! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[Jen West]

will not prevent inhalation anthrax but washing your hands will prevent skin anthrax. I doubt anyone will deliberately send me anthrax and I doubt that I will ever be exposed more than I already have petting goats in the zoo.

There were three new cases of anthrax reported yesterday- inhalation anthrax in a postal worker, inhalation anthrax in a hospital worker who worked next to a mail room, and skin anthrax in a person who had no unusual exposure.

Keep laughing at me.

[Jen West]

I don't take anti-biotics- haven't had a single dose of anything like that for over eight years. Doctors don't like my attitude about that, and shove samples into my hands and tell me when those are gone I can get a script, confident that I will take them. I don't. I have them though. The penicillin is horse penicillin. I'd have to pretty darn sure I had anthrax and there was no other help available to use it, especially since it takes a horse needle to ingest it. OUCH.

I'm still not bringong any mail into the house for my kids to suck on and throw around. While some of us admittedly watch too much news, some of you might need to watch a little more.

[MGR]

The main post office in this area is Hamilton. An accounting office a mile away now has a case of anthrax -the cutaneous (sp?) one . They believe the person got it by handling the mail. Okay it�s close to the post office --- possible that some amount was on a letter.

My office handles a lot of papers from that office. Some letters were sent to us when the other anthrax letters were sent. Are we a little careful?? You bet, but we have to keep plugging along. You are right that washing hands will not help with the inhaled form of Anthrax; but it will help prevent the one caused by contact as well as limit other germs. We are closer to the problem so yes, I open the mail outside but come to think of it I always did. Easier to get rid of the junk mail; just dump it in the recycling bin in the garage.

Just be watchful for anything weird. I just hope we spot it.

We cant let the B$#@*&(& get us down.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Maria

[Pixie Dust]

I guess I'd consider that if I got any mail. I work in Capitol Hill and haven't had mail since Thursday. I guess I'm more concerned with co-workers sneaking in and sneezing on my phone, the buggers. And I'm definitely more concerned with crossing the street. I think scaring pedestrians is a hobby around here.
Betsy

[MGR]

You mean we really don't get points for just missing them and hearing them yell???


/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Maria

[AHC]

To repeat what was said earlier, antrax is a bacteria not a virus. This is important because bacterial infections can be treated and cured by antibiotics. Viral infections cannot.

I don't wash my hands after checking the mail and I am not particularly worried about being exposed to or contracting anthrax. However, I am the director of fundraising and public relations for a medical research institute so my lack of fear may be because I have access to lots of good information that others may not have.

[buryinghill1]

So far our only concern is keeping our keyboards clean after opening our email.

[joliemom]

Any public health concern, anthrax, AIDS, cancer, hauls around it's own myths and half truths. Within the past year, I've heard intelligent, well read women tell me that antiperspirant causes breast cancer. Being the smarty pants librarian, I searched around and found information on the American Cancer Society's website discounting that notion, then forwarded it to friends. Funny thing, the people who were convinced about the "deodorant thing" also smoked heavily, drank to excess, were a few pounds overweight, and exercise meant walking from the parking lot to the mall. Guess what's linked to breast cancer? That's right, inactivity, obesity, alcohol, and tobacco.

Few of us live within 5 miles of the questioned mail facilities let alone work there, but the thought of micro-spores is scary. And that's the terrorists' point, they want us scared and irrational rather than concerned but capable of making intelligent decisions.

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Quote: "Originally posted by Paddys Mom:
You are probably helping to keep yourself free of viruses like the common cold and flu.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Acatually, no. I had to say something; I just finished biology class and I am in computer class (bla HTML design is really easy so im on the net /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). A virus is not a living being in the sense that we would use. They are just strands of DNA (or is it RNA). Bacteria are living single celled organisms that can be killed. Using antibacterial soap on a virus will not kill a virus. Therefore, if you try to kill the smallpox virus with antibiotics, it will do nothing. This is also why doctors do not give medication out for virial infections- it won't do anything /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[coco]

"Possible Home Mailings Intensively Investigated"
-- current CNN.COM headline.

[Pixie Dust]

would not use *headlines* as their news source....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by coco:
"Possible Home Mailings Intensively Investigated"
-- current CNN.COM headline.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[vineyridge]

Does anyone know if anthrax spores can survive a vacuum?

Seems to me that if they can't, putting mail in a vacuum chamber would be as good an answer as irradiating it and probably cheaper.

[Inverness]

Sorry Vineyridge, but the first thing that popped into my head was a vision of millions of Americans pulling out the Hoover to vaccuum the mail.;)

That is a good thought, however. I wonder if the bacteria are dependent on some access to ambient air.?? Anyone out there know??

"There's something about the outside of a horse that's good for the inside of a man."

-- Winston Churchill

[Duffy]

Hmmmm...I seem to recall that mothballs placed in vacuum cleaner bags kill a LOT of nasties...

[Erin]

I saw something about this on TV the other day, but wasn't really paying all that much attention... I am pretty sure they said vacuuming would not kill spores.

The little buggers are very hard to destroy. When there's an anthrax outbreak in livestock, the dead animals and their bedding are burned, as that's really the only way to destroy the spores.

[Inverness]

No, no, no! I meant the Hoovering as a joke!

What Vineyridge is wondering is whether the spores would survive if deprived of all oxygen (e.g., in a vacuum chamber)

"There's something about the outside of a horse that's good for the inside of a man."

-- Winston Churchill

[Louise]

We were joking around the other day about putting all the mail in one of the units in the test lab. Maybe not such a bad idea, eh?

[Erin]

Ah, but Inverness, the sad part is that they were being very serious on the news. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In fact... and I'm really not certain about this, so don't anyone take it too seriously... but I think they said that vacuuming could actually be BAD because it would stir up spores into the air.

I'll bet a whole bunch of people suddenly vowed never to vacuum again. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hey! Maybe that can be my new excuse for my messy apartment! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif "Can't vacuum... it stirs up the anthrax spores, donchaknow?"

[Inverness]

Does this mean I can retire my dust rags too?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"There's something about the outside of a horse that's good for the inside of a man."

-- Winston Churchill

[Duffy]

Sounds like a plan to me!!!

[Paddys Mom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darkerhorse:
Acatually, no. I had to say something; I just finished biology class and I am in computer class (bla HTML design is really easy so im on the net /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). A virus is not a living being in the sense that we would use. They are just strands of DNA (or is it RNA). Bacteria are living single celled organisms that can be killed. Using antibacterial soap on a virus will not kill a virus. Therefore, if you try to kill the smallpox virus with antibiotics, it will do nothing. This is also why doctors do not give medication out for virial infections- it won't do anything /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying that hand washing will not prevent the spread of colds and flu? Unless I am misunderstanding your post, I would repectfully disagree.

[poltroon]

I don't know if low pressure would kill the spores - actually, I kind of doubt it. Spores are hardy, by definition. They wouldn't need oxygen, but a hard vacuum might still affect them.

However, a hard vacuum on such varied and irregular objects like mail would take a long time (hours) and might not get any spores inside sealed containers (depending on the goodness of seal). With packages, you might also damage some of the contents inadvertently.

(Back in a previous life I ran thermal vacuum tests on NASA instruments...)

Irradiation is probably a better bet. It's certainly cheaper and faster, and more likely to succeed. There's still some possibility of damaging some kinds of contents, but probably less than vacuum.

Washing hands doesn't kill virus, but it does dislodge virus from your body and move them to the sewer. So, an important preventative.

BTW - 20,000 people die every year from the flu. We just don't get hourly media reports on who died from it today.

[Paddys Mom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
Washing hands doesn't kill virus, but it does dislodge virus from your body and move them to the sewer. So, an important preventative.

BTW - 20,000 people die every year from the flu. We just don't get hourly media reports on who died from it today.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for clarifying. I knew the hospital I worked at gave us handwashing lessons every year for a reason!

[Tricia Booker]

This vacuum tangent is very disturbing for me to hear because vacuuming is my FAVORITE household chore. Mopping, however, is a close second.

Well, I guess if I die from anthrax at least my friends will mourn me while admiring my clean floors /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Wow, she really knew how to spread those spores!"

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paddys Mom:
Quote: "Originally posted by Darkerhorse:
Acatually, no. I had to say something; I just finished biology class and I am in computer class (bla HTML design is really easy so im on the net /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). A virus is not a living being in the sense that we would use. They are just strands of DNA (or is it RNA). Bacteria are living single celled organisms that can be killed. Using antibacterial soap on a virus will not kill a virus. Therefore, if you try to kill the smallpox virus with antibiotics, it will do nothing. This is also why doctors do not give medication out for virial infections- it won't do anything /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif"

Are you saying that hand washing will not prevent the spread of colds and flu? Unless I am misunderstanding your post, I would repectfully disagree.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it is a virus (not bacteria), soap will not kill it. From what I understand, influenza is a virus. Therefore soap (even antibacterial) will not kill it (it is not considered alive by most text books).

-----
http://www.catchride.com

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paddys Mom:
Quote: "Originally posted by poltroon:
Washing hands doesn't kill virus, but it does dislodge virus from your body and move them to the sewer. So, an important preventative.

BTW - 20,000 people die every year from the flu. We just don't get hourly media reports on who died from it today."

Thank you for clarifying. I knew the hospital I worked at gave us handwashing lessons every year for a reason!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does kill bacteria (like anthrax) and many many other things that make us sick. Bacteria are acatual organisms that use our body to survive. Antibiotics work on a bacteria, not on a virus

-----
http://www.catchride.com

[Jen West]

The RNA viruses are considered more virulent, in general.

Some viruses CAN be killed with soap- soap is a strong base which will disrupt the various bonds that hold a molecule together. Some viruses are encapsulated and without their coating will die, and some of these coatings ARE susceptible to the pH disruption of common household soap.

I saw a demo on CNN using a standard envelope (the pores of which measure about 100 microns) and flourescent orange talcum powder with a particle size of approximately 30 microns. A sealed envelope with talcum powder was dropped into a basket of "mail," shaken, and the resulting spread of the talcum powder from letter to letter was demonstrated under a blacklight. The average size of Anthrax spores is 3-5 microns. The mail in the basket was pretty well splattered with flourescent talcum powder. I have now graduated to ignoring my mail. *s*

[just_me]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If it is a virus (not bacteria), soap will not kill it. From what I understand, influenza is a virus. Therefore soap (even antibacterial) will not kill it (it is not considered alive by most text books).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Handwashing may not kill the virus, but I believe it washes it off your hands. Hence, frequent handwashing when you have a cold or are around someone with a cold to lessen the likelihood of spreading it.

[Inverness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:

BTW - 20,000 people die every year from the flu. We just don't get hourly media reports on who died from it today.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what you're saying is that a simple flu could kill my monster-in-law?

Cancel that tour of the Hart Senate office building.

"There's something about the outside of a horse that's good for the inside of a man."

-- Winston Churchill

[Jen West]

Yes, I know of someone who actually died of the flu. (Wait, maybe it WAS anthrax!)

If one isn't careful, doesn't rest and drink water, whatever, fluid can build up around the heart and then one dies. I think it's called congestive heart failure. But you get really really sick before that happens and it's a salvageable state. It's from fluid build-up, I believe, and not from toxins.

What happens with anthrax when it is inhaled is that is migrates into the lymph nodes in the chest and immediately sets about suppressing the immune system- that's one function- then as it procreates it releases toxins (bacteria poop), which in this case break down the integrity of the cells inside the body and that's why it makes animals leak blood when they die.

[dogchushu]

To quote Poltroon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Irradiation is probably a better bet. It's certainly cheaper and faster, and more likely to succeed. There's still some possibility of damaging some kinds of contents, but probably less than vacuum.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's it! All we have to do is stick our mail in the microwave! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Says dogchushu who is considering the wonderfully awful damage she could do to all those AOL free 500 hours disks she keeps getting in the mail.)

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogchushu:
To quote Poltroon:

Quote: " Irradiation is probably a better bet. It's certainly cheaper and faster, and more likely to succeed. There's still some possibility of damaging some kinds of contents, but probably less than vacuum.

"

That's it! All we have to do is stick our mail in the microwave! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Says dogchushu who is considering the wonderfully awful damage she could do to all those AOL free 500 hours disks she keeps getting in the mail.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You know, those AOL disks acatually were usefull when they were real disks. You could erase them and use them for whatever. Now they are just CD's.. to bad you can't write on regular CD's once they have been used.

-----
http://www.catchride.com

[ErinB]

I see a potential business idea in my future. Offer mail-nuking services to the millions that feel threatened by Anthrax!

"Yes folks, that's right! For just $19.95 we'll zap your mail in no time flat, rendering it completely free from Anthrax in the time it takes to wash your dishes! And for just $3.95 more, we'll throw in the one-size-fits-all patriotic visor and matching light up key chain..." /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

[Bored*]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogchushu:
To quote Poltroon:

Quote: " Irradiation is probably a better bet. It's certainly cheaper and faster, and more likely to succeed. There's still some possibility of damaging some kinds of contents, but probably less than vacuum.

"

That's it! All we have to do is stick our mail in the microwave! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Says dogchushu who is considering the wonderfully awful damage she could do to all those AOL free 500 hours disks she keeps getting in the mail.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a HUGE debate about whether anthrax was a virus or bacteria in my social studies class today, and everyone was arguing and yelling, and whatever, but then someone was smart enough to get on the computer to look it up. It is a bacteria. Okay, and I know this is some rumor or something, but this girl in my class (who is a known liar /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) told the class: (quote) "One of my family's friends was dating one of the terrorists, and they broke up and then he sent her a letter telling her not to go on any commercial airlines on Sept. 11 or go to any malls on Halloween." /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Then some kid told the class that on the radio he heard a talk about people doing stupid things. He said he heard about this one lady who heard if you put your mail in the microwave for like 10 minutes or something ( I can't remember) it will kill any anthrax on your mail, so she did it for like 2 minuted and her mail caught on fire and blew up her microwave. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~Rachel~

*If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull* -Bart Simpson's Guide To Life

[brilyntrip]

After reading all four pages of this thread your description of the lady nuking her mail which caught on fire and ruined her microwave literally made me wet my pants I laughed so hard!

[Heidi]

Hate to break it to you folks but the commercial anti-bacterial soaps are mostly ineffective - they are the product of evil marketing people who've barely a grade 9 education, nevermind a medical degree.

I don't know whether this provides solace or greater fear but having surfed through the CDC website last week, I discovered that in the U.S., a nation of 300 million people, there were only 5,000 cases of mumps annually.

Given that my son had mumps and I spent a hysterical week fearing the worst, among my conclusions:

-Anthrax is, indeed, a bacteria and can be treated; mumps is a virus which can lead to meningitis, encephalitis, and sterility among men;

-As rare as instances of mumps in this day and age, it is more likely, statistically, that you'll catch mumps than the probability of an anthrax infection - i.e. there are greater, immediate dangers than the fears created by the media;

-Again, though, should you be infected with anthrax, there is treatment widely available;

-Mothers worry about everything - that which is in our control, and mostly about that which remains outside of our control.


As fearful as I've been since Sept. 11th, I think I'm more frightened that my children will be infected by this omnipresent fear that we've all suffered through. The point at which the nation's children are seized and paralyzed by fear - that's the point at which I'm willing to concede that we're all pretty much screwed.

[rockstar]

Oh, the paranoid.

My mail at work has been reduced to practically nothing lately due to the fact that our router is the infamous Brentwood mail facility that seems to be killing people off here slowly but surely. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif All of my side of Capitol Hill (the Senate side) is not gettin' a whole lotta mail lately. And as my organization is a fundraising one, not getting the checks in the mail that we rely on to keep us and the candidates we support affloat has prooved to be quite a problem (we got a check that actually made it through Monday and it was dated over two weeks ago).

Still, the mail we do get we open just as we always have... no gloves, no fuss.

Come ON people! There are many bigger problems in this world to worry about right now than Anthrax. And there is so very little that you can do that will really make a difference when it comes to Anthrax... why in the hell bother? If it happens (which it won't), then it happens and you deal with it properly from there (and you are THEN warranted in freaking out!).

Do you dance around your mail for peace of mind? That's pretty silly considering that, if you were to get an anthrax infected mailpiece, it's pretty unlikely that having gloves on or opening your mail super carefully will diminish your chances of being harmed enough to make a difference.

I've actually had the privledge(sp?) of watching one of my buddies from Daschle's office puke his guts out from his 3 month regiment of Cipro (he actually throws up a couple of times a day as a side effect). I don't want this to be going on anymore than the next person and of course I am woefully afraid of Anthrax, but really, it's out of my control and, because of that, I try as hard as I can to put it out of my mind and proceed normally. IFFFFFF, I should, for some reason, open an Anthrax letter up, I know what to do... and that's as much as I feel I need to know or do.

A good website to find out what you should do is Senator Frist's website...
www.senate.gov/~frist (http://www.senate.gov/~frist) "what to do if you..."

If you insist on worrying about something... worry about small pox. It makes the threat of anthrax look like fun. And rumour has it Russia is missing a vile of it.

PS... never microwave anthrax!!!!! It's better for it than worse.

[joliemom]

Something I stumbled on this morning:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Worry is a cycle of inefficient thoughts whirling around a center of fear. --Corrie ten Boom <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[vineyridge]

which I'm sure has already been answered here:

Can horses get anthrax? Sheep and cows get it.

[Erin]

Yes, if they graze infected pasture. There's also a vaccine available for horses.

[Inverness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rockstar:


I've actually had the privledge(sp?) of watching one of my buddies from Daschle's office puke his guts out from his 3 month regiment of Cipro (he actually throws up a couple of times a day as a side effect). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is he sure it isn't morning sickness?

All kidding aside, I haven't run across anyone in DC who is worried about Anthrax. It seems that the paranoia resides everywhere but the areas in which the Anthrax has been found. The mail is a bit slow and thin, but life in DC goes on per usual. Puzzling.

"There's something about the outside of a horse that's good for the inside of a man."

-- Winston Churchill

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Can horses get anthrax? Sheep and cows get it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a story in the LA Times describing how Texas ranchers have lived with anthrax for ages. Unfortunately, it also mentions that one rancher's favorite horse died of anthrax last year.

LA Times Article (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-000086069oct29.story)

[onelanerode]

well, i've been washing my hands ... but i figure they could probly use a washing anyway, given that i've just returned from class & the cold and flu season is here ... /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif i don't want to be all paranoid, but we have NO IDEA where that mail's been or what it's touched before we get it ... so ... better safe than sorry i say.
stay safe, all you bbers /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~miss annie

[rockstar]

Too funny Inverness. No, I think he's pretty sure it's not morning sickness. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

He's really scrawny... can't weigh more than 120. His body is just not handling the cipro thing so well I'm afraid... I feel terrible for him. Daschle has called his parents twice now... which I think is incredibly nice.

I know other people on it who are also experiencing some pretty nast side effects.

[Goodyfourshoes!]

"20,000 people die of the flu every year"

How true, how true. Actually, right now, I HAVE the flu and on Saturday I was unable to breathe enough to have my husband haul my butt to the emergency room. After 2 hours on an oxygen mask, a little ventolin, and some agonizing muscle pain from trying to suck in enough oxygen to survive, I thought I was dying. I was HOPING I would die. I can't imagine someone with a depressed immune system living through it.

[Pixie Dust]

OH, Worthy, that's awful, I hope you are getting better fast. That's the thing, the flu is really nasty. Sometimes people come down with a bad cold and say they have the "flu", but the flu is much worse than a cold.

[Midge]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joliemom:
Something I stumbled on this morning:

Quote: " Worry is a cycle of inefficient thoughts whirling around a center of fear. --Corrie ten Boom "<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen, joliemom /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[N&B&T]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
Ah, but Inverness, the sad part is that they were being very serious on the news. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In fact... and I'm really not certain about this, so don't anyone take it too seriously... but I think they said that vacuuming could actually be BAD because it would stir up spores into the air.

I'll bet a whole bunch of people suddenly vowed never to vacuum again. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hey! Maybe that can be my new excuse for my messy apartment! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif "Can't vacuum... it stirs up the anthrax spores, donchaknow?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erin, Inverness, et alia (on other threads)--
Oh sure, fine! Save yourselves and consign your dust bunnies to the heartbreak of anthrax. Call yourselves animal lovers, do you? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DBS (Dust Bunny Society), Founding Member

[This message was edited by NP Fisher on Oct. 31, 2001 at 04:52 PM.]

[N&B&T]

Five Palm Beach county post offices have recently been found to have anthrax spores here and there. They've been cleaned (with bleach) and the spore count at the locations within the buildings where spores were found was extremely low.

Of course, that still leaves a lot of room for questions, including but not limited to:

So, what happened to the OTHER spores?
How long have the spores been there, do you suppose? (I.e., how many of my bills etc. passed through them?)
How big did you say the spores you found were, exactly?

And so on. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

People who are extremely worried about their mail should consider masks. I wouldn't suggest actually trying to get skin anthrax; but, at least you will know in plenty of time when you've got it, and it is (relatively easily) curable. Inhalation anthrax is far more dangerous. If you're going to worry, worry effectively! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Not advocating, just mentioning. For myself, I figure it's pretty moot now /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and as many have pointed out, thousands die of the flu each year but we just don't get daily updates. (NOT saying media should not keep us informed... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

[vineyridge]

Anthrax is pretty endemic in the US, apparently. I would think that it would be not unlikely that a few anthrax spores would be just about everywhere.

The question is whether the necessary number of spores to cause disease are present in an environment.

Unless there have been studies to investigate whether there is an ambient spore level in a particular environment, I don't think we can conclude that a few spores didn't come from natural causes.

[HN73]

Vineyridge...

That is the EXACT question I have posed multiple times in recent conversations.

Its too late now to figure that out though, isn't is?

What about other potential biological weapons. Smallpox was eradicated, so you shouldn't find any of it anywhere right?

But what else?

I am torn between panic and rational behavior on a daily basis.

[Erin]

Hmm... I wouldn't think you would find anthrax spores just lying around. You definitely would find them in the ground in areas where it's common (Texas, Nebraska, etc.), but I don't think the naturally-occurring spores spread that easily.

If you read the article posted from the LA Times, the author mentions that, although cutaneous anthrax isn't unheard of in certain areas, the spores are too heavy to be just picked up by the wind and inhaled. (Or something like that... look at the article, it explains it better. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

The spores used in bioterrorism are highly concentrated and refined so that they are easier to spread.

I'm not an expert by any means, but from what I've read, it doesn't make sense that there would be anthrax spores just hanging around in random places. Just my guess, though.

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vineyridge:
Anthrax is pretty endemic in the US, apparently. I would think that it would be not unlikely that a few anthrax spores would be just about everywhere.

The question is whether the necessary number of spores to cause disease are present in an environment.

Unless there have been studies to investigate whether there is an ambient spore level in a particular environment, I don't think we can conclude that a few spores didn't come from natural causes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vineyridge, I've asked this many times too. I suspect that at least some of these positives may be just natural background noise. (It would be interesting to run some of these tests in TX.) Obviously we have some cases that must be a result of this attack, whatever it is. But probably if there are only a few spores around, people won't get sick and so no tests are done.

The last big outbreak of anthrax from a weapons lab in the former USSR killed 65-100 people (since it was hushed up, there's thought that some died undiagnosed). It was interesting that a lot more people were exposed and never had symptoms/illness, including at least one playground full of kids. Apparently that death toll was almost all older men, as well.

[N&B&T]

In post offices? In machines? You think?

[Serenade]

One of my professors who is a Ph.d/M.D. held a forum on biological warfare, and one of the most frightening things he said was that smallpox still exists. He even had a map with pinpoints on all of the labs that still have some.

The biggest store in the U.S. is, if memory serves me, in Atlanta.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

However, he did not seem to concerned about smallpox, because as he put it, "smallpox is a distinctive disease, making controlling it much easier."

He also seemed to think that anthrax was/is a poor choice for massive biowarfare, because it is not contagious.

Unfortunately, he did have some other ideas about biowarfare that are pretty scary...it's good to know that there are brilliant people like him, however, who are keeping a few steps ahead of the rest of us.

*Forget home-sickness...I'm
HORSE-sick!!*

[Jen West]

in the US since the last "natural" case of inhaled anthrax has been the DIRECT RESULT of immune compromised individuals exposed to people recently vaccinated against the polio that is supposed to be protecting us. And yes, babies are included in this group. IE, THE ONLY POLIO IN THE US SINCE 1978 OR BEFORE HAS BEEN BECAUSE OF THE EXPOSURE OF PEOPLE TO OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN RECENTLY VACCINATED.
So, by getting vaccinated or by getting your children vaccinated YOU ARE ADDING to the polio problem, not detracting from it.

Do your own research. I'm tired of doing it for people who laugh at me. *s*

[Erin]

Care to back that up with documentation, Jen? Sounds interesting, but I'm not going to take the word of someone posting on a BB about it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Also, you might find that folks wouldn't consider you so "antagonistic" if you stopped insulting them and calling them "you people."

The world would be an awfully boring place if everyone agreed with everyone else...

[Jen West]

It's all on-line Erin. You're the main person laughing at me. You must know how to operate a search engine by now. If you can't find it, e-mail and I'll send you links.

[Eglinton]

Do you believe everything you read on-line, Jen?

[Jen West]

Even if your mother is wrong you should not make fun of her on a public forum.

[Maria]

Girl, your meds are not working today.

You come here, you go to the dressage forum you go other places and get on your high horse. Can't you say anything without being nasty. People may have just a titch more respect for you if you weren't so confrontational.

I know this post may get edited and I'm sorry Erin, Louise, SoEasy, Portia....who have I left out, but in my opinion she has gone overboard this time. Between this thread and the Bombing Bridges thread, I quit frankly am steamed.

[Jen West]

Call your family doctor and ask when the last case of wild polio was reported in the United States.
Or remain ignorant. The choice is yours.

[Jen West]

and "I'll send you the links" because it will be a COLD day in America when I set my family doctor up to answer phone calls from a bunch of people too ignorant to call their own doctor or to use a search engine.

[SoEasy]

be civil to each other

thank you

[Erin]

Laughing? Um, no.

Yes, I have made a point of correcting assertions you've made which seem, to the best of my knowledge, wrong. It's nothing personal -- I just hate to see erroneous information spread around the forums. Especially when people are as on-edge as they already are.

If you've got information to back up what you're stating, by all means, post it and inform everyone. But don't throw around these "facts" and expect people to just take your word for it, and get pissed off when they don't. If you've done all this "research" to back them up, why don't you just share it and enlighten everyone?

I guess because it's a lot easier to rant and rave than participate in a constructive discussion. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

A quick look around the CDC site turned this up:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Does oral polio vaccine cause polio?

Oral polio vaccine has been used for 40 years and is very safe for most people. In very rare cases, people who have never been vaccinated can get sick from oral polio vaccine. This is also true for people who have rare problems of the immune system. Getting sick from oral polio vaccine happens to one person for every 2.5 � 4 million doses given. This is why we no longer use oral polio vaccine in the United States. Instead of oral polio vaccine we use an inactivated polio vaccine that does not contain living virus and therefore cannot cause infection. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have no idea what polio has to do with anthrax, but whatever...

[gwen]

What did Erin say about her mother???? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Jen West]

Listen to your mother.

I am so freaking sorry that I care enough about people that I have never met that I try, in spite of whatever they throw at me, to make them aware that YES there is danger out there, but I am done. Good-bye.

Oh, and the dressage forum- you people made it pretty clear that you don't care about learning to get fit enough to ride, smart enough to ride, or open enough to ride. You all want easy answers. "Why do my legs jiggle?" Because you are as fit as a bowl of macaroni.

Why is my horse behind the bit? (in many many forms) Because you pull before you push.

That is all there is to dressage. That is all any of the ODGs ever said there was to dressage, and that is all that any HONEST modern rider has ever said there was to dressage. "Get fitter than the horse and push before you pull." That is it. Keep looking for the secrets though, and keep pretending we aren't in a war. Good-bye.

[Sweet Pea]

Geez, somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[joliemom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am so freaking sorry that I care enough about people that I have never met that I try, in spite of whatever they throw at me, to make them aware that YES there is danger out there, but I am done. Good-bye. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, let us all have a moment of thoughtful silence and remember, caffeine is not always our friend.

[Eglinton]

Bye Jen West! Wait you keep saying bye...why are you still here? Thanks so much for all your info you got from the 'net though. I will be sure to take heed. K bye!!!

[Paddys Mom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jen West:
Good-bye.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Breathes sigh of relief.]

After all, JW obviously has nothing left to learn from "Us People". /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[ErinB]

What is wrong with you? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Gwen, unless you found my original post (the topic of this thread) offensive, I did not say anything about my mother! And thought I rarely get angry on this board, this is WAY over the line. Jen West, I've hardly done anything to deserve this, and frankly I'm more than a little upset that now the whole board is going to be wondering the same thing Gwen is. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Well, let's just get one thing straight:

I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MY MOM, and even if I did it really isn't any of your business Jen West. I suppose Inverness poking fun at her mother-in-law bothers you as well?

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

[gwen]

I thought she was talking about Erin...our Administrator...not you!!!! I know you weren't making fun of her...that's why I asked the question cuz it had never crossed my mind!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

THERE ARE SO MANY ERINS ON THIS BOARD!!!! Gets confusing sometimes.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Eglinton]

ErinB please don't take her posts to heart..she is just being mean and you are in her line of fire! Judging by the length of your post I would say no one else took offense.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Erin]

Actually, ErinB, I think everyone probably thinks I said something about my mom. Jen has apparently morphed us into one mega-Erin. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Don't worry about it...

[ErinB]

Thanks. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I thought she was talking about the other Erin, too, but that didn't make any sense! (not that this does)

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

[Louise]

Don't let Jen West get to you. She is obviously out of sorts today, and acting as a loose cannon.

We all love you, you know that!

[This message was edited by Louise on Nov. 02, 2001 at 03:01 PM.]

[ErinB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Jen has apparently morphed us into one mega-Erin. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now wouldn't THAT be scary! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

[gwen]

Now Erin, go hug your mother and tell her you're sorry! RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Erin]

And for the record, my mom is very nice! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Velvet]

Will I get in trouble if I start everyone in a resounding chorus of "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead???" /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hey, I'm for anyone having strong opinions out here (you know that, erin), but there are times when the messages get a bit violent in their intent and then you just have start singing...

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[This message was edited by Velvet on Nov. 02, 2001 at 03:07 PM.]

[Maria]

me me me me

AHEM

Cough

me me me me

Ding Dong.....

[Pixie Dust]

I thought I missed some sort of "yo mutha" joke...which can be quite funny, if told right.

[Brookes]

Happy Trails to you . . . . . . . . . . /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[gwen]

ding dong............

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[gwen]

un....til....we meet.....aggggaaaiiinnnnnnnnn...

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Maria]

MEEEEEEEEEmories......

[gwen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
I thought I missed some sort of "yo mutha" joke...which can be quite funny, if told right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


honestly, I was looking for a mother joke too!! I couldn't find one!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Brookes]

So long, Farewell, Adfederseen, Adieu . . . . .

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[Eglinton]

hehee you guys are so funny.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Velvet]

Stop it! You're starting to make me think of songs like "Feelings." *gag* Definitely not appropriate for this discussion...or for any situation for that matter! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wait, how about "Seasons in the Sun?" Just take out the "we had joy, we had fun" part.

ROTFLMAO

[Hephaistion]

Maria, please... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif you're off key /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Ding dong the witch is dead. Which old witch? The wicked witch! The wicked witch is dead!

(sorry, couldn't resist /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

[Velvet]

13. Yo mama's so fat, the Enterprise's five year mission was to get around
her.
12. Yo mama's got so many reverse polarity muon fluxes, she needs a
recalibrated reverberating hydro-spanner just to avoid the particle
acceleration side-effects.
11. Yog-Sothoth... Yog-Sothoth... Yug! Yug! Yug! Yo Momma!
10. Yo momma so fat it takes TWO Rings to bind her.
9. Yo Momma's so fat, Jabba said "Damn."
8. Yo momma is so ugly, the Medusans sent HER a box.
7. Yo momma's so ugly, Skynet sent a terminator back to smack her parents.
6. Hitoruthu mithritou tonto. Gibrolioth! MONROLIGHTO!!!! HOHOHOHOHOHO!!!!
5. Yo momma's so fat, they had to beam her down in separate pieces.
4. Yo Momma so fat, I ate the spice and I STILL can't see the end of her
ass.
3. Yo momma's so stupid, she watched Galactica 1980.
2. Yo mamma so old, The Oracle is in her yearbook.
1. Yo momma's so stupid, SHE was the original screenwriter for Episode 1.

[joliemom]

Yo mama so fat she was floating in the ocean and Spain claimed her for then new world.

Yo mama so fat she eats Wheat Thicks.

and last but not least,

Yo mama so fat when you get on top of her your ears pop!

[Brookes]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eglinton:
hehee you guys are so funny.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Relieved totally relieved!! I still have the bruises from my last encounter all over my jiggly macaroni legs!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[Velvet]

I still don't understand how she could not listen to us DQs and realize that we do NOT jiggle! How many times did I tell her we used plastic surgery to remove this flaw? And then there's all this weird body building talk. *shudder* Makes me have images of Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to ride dressage. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Eglinton]

Ha Love it! Nothing like a bit of Friday aft. entertainment...all the funnier because JW really thinks she as given us a talking to!

[gwen]

Who does she think she is telling ErinB what to do..Does she think she's her MOTHER??????? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ErinB]

Maybe that's why I turned into such a classless little demon! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

~Erin
Be alert. The world needs more lerts.

[suzy]

/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif And here I thought you were my friends, but you've been playing and having the time of your lives without me. A pox on "you people." Oops, guess I shouldn't use that "pox" word, huh? Or, "you people." Don't want my hand slapped, ya know.:p /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

While you've been singing "Ding Dong," I've been slaving away in my office. You heartless people, you, you, oh I just can't say it!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

'ding dong' suzysoloing.buildingquicklyclearsout.

[gwen]

GO BACK TO WORK!!! NOW!!!!! I command you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Brookes]

Quote: "Originally posted by Velvet:
Makes me have images of Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to ride dressage. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif"


_GAWD! HIS MANTRA IS I'LL BE BACK! SHUDDER IS RIGHT!_

Ahhhh Suzy, Shud up ya whiner!

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!"
/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[suzy]

Hoovering will not -- I repeat, will not -- get rid of those pesky Anthrax spores. Nope. Only an Electrolux is up to that task. I'm now dutifully going back to work as instructed. Bye.

Now don't you start singing Ding Dong to me, or I WILL come baaaaccccckkkk. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[gwen]

You can come back and play now...did you enjoy your time in the corner???? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


My goodness...to much Mountain Dew for me today!!!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[suzy]

You SHUD UP. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

suzythoroughlyenjoyingtheFridayroast -- umertheFridayFest

[Jo]

Stop... stoppppp... STOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP! I'm so incredibly sick and you people are making me laugh. IT HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gwen]

Do some AB EXCERCISES and you will build those muscles up so it won't hurt when you laugh....go on now!!!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[suzy]

Ding Dong can stay in the corner, but I'll be darned if I let her keep wearing my pointy hat. Hand it back NOW if you know what's good for you!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[suzy]

Push, doggone it, don't PULL. Do I have to teach you EVERYTHING? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[suzy]

Stealing from Maria and Sweet Pea, poetnotsolaureatesuzy jumps into action, quilled keyboard at her fingertips

Oh me oh my,
somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed
she then did try to rise
but fell ever so hard on her head
Then with foggy mind and blurred eyes
she did take the wrong meds
and hence was her demise
ding dong the witch is dead


You are all cordially invited to my poetry reading tonight. All of the poems will be my own. I can just see the quickening pulses as you all rush attend. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Brookes]

HO HUM. . . .

Yeah Suzy well same to you and that ugly horse you rode in on! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

Hey you guys do you think she realizes that she is talking to herself, hey Suze, you making up for the time you missed???

[gwen]

Oh come on now...don't be making fun of the horse now!!!!!!!!!!!! If we can't play nice girls, it's time to go to your rooms and think about how you are talking to each other...ok??????

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Brookes]

Oh Gwennie you realize you just painted a big ole fat bullseye on yourself dontcha???? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[elizabeth]

I missed the whole freakin' mother thing!!!

RATS!!

I will say this much: Without mothers to chuckle at (or "at which to chuckle"), this world would be a much less joyfull place.

Someday I will share with all of you my mother stories. . . . Perhaps the one about the day she was convinced our dog could speak ("she said home, she said HOME!!"). . . or perhaps the one about the day she decided she wanted the dogs stuffed after they died. . . or perhaps the day I sent her back the same e-mail she sent me (because it was so MEAN) and, without realizing I had cut-and-pasted HER e-mail right back at her, she said it was the most insightful e-mail she had ever read. . . or perhaps the time she was eating calamari and decided to let the little tentacles dangle out of the corner of her mouth just to see if anyone would notice (we did). . . or perhaps the one where we all danced in the airport (just to amuse ourselves) while my poor father was trying to convince the guy at the ticket counter that his family could NOT be bumped off the flight because they were tired and grouchy and lethargic and needed to get home. . . .

[gwen]

Well I got a SMALL BUTT so it will be hard to hit me!!! HEE HEE!!!!!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[suzy]

With a mother like that, you don't need to waste your time here!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Brookes]

Hmmm don't we think alot of ourselves! Small compared to what Gwen. . . your horse's?

nee ner nee ner nee ner!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Ahhhh a direct hit!!!!

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[gwen]

Well YES, compared to my horse's ass!! I have a 6 hand mini!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And I wear size 22 breeches....JK!! I am not that small..ok I got whacked in the butt!!!!! But It was one of those velcro balls! So it didn't hurt too much!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Brookes]

Sure Gwen, size 22, using who's conversion chart. . .Omar the tentmaker??? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[gwen]

22" WASTE THAT IS!!! YAH RIGHT! IN MY DREAMS!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Brookes]

Oh Gwennie that's so tiny! NO FAIR! I'm gonna go eat some more halloween candy, urp! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p.s. go have a cookie will ya, make me feel better!

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[gwen]

Looks like we're the only ones playing..were did everyone go???? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Brookes]

I think they decided that we wanted to play alone for awhile. Let's face it Gwen, we did kind of leave everyone out there for awhile. Oh well, we always have each other. By the way how is your riding going? Are you still enjoying yourself? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gwen:
Now Erin, go hug your mother and tell her you're sorry! RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is pretty much good advice for us all - regardless of what we have or haven't done today.. ! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Brookes]

Oh Poltroon, what a nice sentiment, I only wish I could, Mom's in heaven, and I'm not quite ready for a visit!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif but I'll hug my dogs and my husband if he gets home on time after playing golf all day for our evening out!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!