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Pocket Pony
Mar. 1, 2002, 12:00 PM
So maybe you all have been following my travails with Mickey. If not, the basic story is that we switched trainers, made a ton of progress, then made a huge regression and started stopping.

So I've decided that I need to make jumping simple and easy and let him find his rythm instead of me trying to place him because I get so worked up in trying to get it right that it makes us both nuts.

This morning I got up in 2 pt and did my w/t/c laps. While I was doing my t/c laps, I decided to just add a jump that was at the end of the arena. No biggie, just a small x. But what I did was just stay where I was in 2 pt - don't push him forward or pull him back for a distance (of course push if I feel him hesitate, though), just let him figure it out.

He was so fabulous! He just popped over it like it was no big deal. I could feel him hesitate the first couple of times, but I added leg, gave him a cluck and he went over. The rest of the time he went straight for it. While cantering he took the long spot, but I didn't try to fight him on it. Just let him keep his pace and his rythm and fit in what he could.

Do you guys think I'm on the right track? Once he gets his confidence back (and I get mine back that he will indeed go over), then I'll work on adjustability of the pace. Right now, though, I just want it to be a pleasant experience for him.

"It's amazing how there's no time to do it right the first time but always time to do it over again."

Pocket Pony
Mar. 1, 2002, 12:00 PM
So maybe you all have been following my travails with Mickey. If not, the basic story is that we switched trainers, made a ton of progress, then made a huge regression and started stopping.

So I've decided that I need to make jumping simple and easy and let him find his rythm instead of me trying to place him because I get so worked up in trying to get it right that it makes us both nuts.

This morning I got up in 2 pt and did my w/t/c laps. While I was doing my t/c laps, I decided to just add a jump that was at the end of the arena. No biggie, just a small x. But what I did was just stay where I was in 2 pt - don't push him forward or pull him back for a distance (of course push if I feel him hesitate, though), just let him figure it out.

He was so fabulous! He just popped over it like it was no big deal. I could feel him hesitate the first couple of times, but I added leg, gave him a cluck and he went over. The rest of the time he went straight for it. While cantering he took the long spot, but I didn't try to fight him on it. Just let him keep his pace and his rythm and fit in what he could.

Do you guys think I'm on the right track? Once he gets his confidence back (and I get mine back that he will indeed go over), then I'll work on adjustability of the pace. Right now, though, I just want it to be a pleasant experience for him.

"It's amazing how there's no time to do it right the first time but always time to do it over again."

BustersMom
Mar. 1, 2002, 12:48 PM
Batgirl, sounds like you have a plan that is working for you. I believe I would stick with it as long as you are both having fun.

Good March BGSG Topic.

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group
Remember, dear, if you're not bleeding and a fairly vital organ is not hanging out of your shirt, you keep riding

JumperEq
Mar. 1, 2002, 01:38 PM
It sounds like you're well on your way. It's difficult to ride a horse when he has no confidence, especially if you are lacking in confidence yourself. I have a hard time riding horses that don't have trust in me.

Keep it up!

.:Erin B #2:.
You cannot stop us, you cannot bring us down,
Never give up, we go on and on.

LaurieB
Mar. 1, 2002, 05:36 PM
When I learned to ride in the 60s, it was all about finding a distance, or even "making" a distance, ie, seeing something you wanted and adjusting the horse's stride to make it work.

Now I'm belatedly realizing that it's not about the distance at all. It's about the pace. Once you can find that good consistent pace, and hold it, the good distances will magically appear. Trust me on this. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


So yes, I think you're doing exactly the right thing working on your pace.

Hopeful Hunter
Mar. 1, 2002, 05:40 PM
Sounds like letting your horse find out he CAN go over something is a very good first step. Let him learn that, and I suspect he'll also begin to learn how to go over from a better spot.

I suppose you could also try cantering a ground pole or two on the circle of death, too. Maybe stay in two point when you do?

I'm STILL having a horrible time with that exercise, but then I just seem to be in some kind of riding funk anyway. I injured my neck/shoulder -- get this, sleeping! Yup, woke up two days ago in the middle of the night with such pain it made me nauseous! I rode today -- not well, but I did ride. The muscle is looser, but not released yet.

Ash, however, seems to be having the spring hissy fits or something. He's just been very inconsistent, which is unlike him. And I am in one of those riding slumps, I'm afraid. Just don't feel like I'm really in tune and nothing is going right. Hopefully it will pass for both us us soon.

LaurieB
Mar. 1, 2002, 05:42 PM
oh, and something else...

This is LaurieB's typical horse show round: I trot into the ring thinking, okay, hold your pace coming out of the circle, leg yield into the corner, keep her straight, get your change, don't let her drift left...

I do three lines just that way. Then I come around the last corner and begin to think, hey, this is going pretty well. now all I have to do is find one more distance and I'm home free...

Guess which fence I always blow? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'm telling you, that distance thing is a killer.

Hopeful Hunter
Mar. 1, 2002, 05:52 PM
I couldn't agree with Laurie more. I'm just starting to learn about "finding distances" and what I've learned is.....DON"T. If I try to "see" the distance I invariably fiddle with my horse and screw him up. If I try to find the PACE, and KEEP IT CONSISTENT -- we go over like a flowing river all round and smooth.

That's partly why I think that just riding your horse and letting HIM find his way is so important. It also teaches you to feel what his best pace is on those times he meets the jump just right.

But, one problem I have is in making the transition from training in two point to riding in the hunter hover or even on the saddle. For some reason, if I have to do anything with my upper body the whole thing falls apart. I'm working on it, but not getting it at all yet.

second chance
Mar. 1, 2002, 05:54 PM
Sounds to me like you are on the right track!

Gaining confidence in my horse and myself is my biggest problem.. after owning a stopper I get kind of nervous once and a while.

My horse right now a 4 yr. old, I'm just focusing on letting her find her spots, granted sometimes she takes the one that I want<the longer more away from the jump approach, instead of her close to the base and round into a ball approach>

Sounds like you and your horse are doing good. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"for want of a nail, the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe, the horse was lost.
For want of a horse, the battle was lost.
From the loss of the battle, a war was lost."

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group <Part 2>

NH clique

Merry
Mar. 1, 2002, 06:08 PM
Unfortunately, the only way to get a baby greenie to canter fences confidently is to canter fences confidently!Which means there will be a ton of missed distances and awkward take-off spots. You just have to stick to your rhythm and pace and NOT over ride to cram your horse into "that perfect spot".

This is yet one more of those riding things that is easier said than done. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at." -- The Sundance Kid

Bumpkin
Mar. 1, 2002, 06:53 PM
I have hit a low spot.
Elliot is doing wonderful. He does lug and lug but doesn't really get going fast, and now since my lawn dart experience...I am holding on and slowing him down instead of lightly pulling his head up and pressing on.
It is a vicious circle I know.

I am not afraid of the jumps, he comes into them wonderfully twice yesterday in my lesson my wonderful trainer complimented me on moving him on when needed, but I hastily told her it was not me that did that it was "Elliot"
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I know that is good, but I am finding that I have some lack of passion for the landing side and pushing him on, like I am waiting for that head drop and right shoulder disappearing with a flick up of the buttocks on Elliot's part.
My balance is wimpy at best right now.

Back to the gymnastics and trotting poles and riding without hands over them to get the heel back down and the balance less likely to be "launched", (my trainer's new word "Launch"), out and over the arena wall /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif
He jumps so round and sometimes so big I have to learn to do this. Olde age is awful.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Pocket Pony
Mar. 1, 2002, 06:56 PM
that's what I was thinking. I've got to get rid of my perfectionism and let it come as it may. If I chip, so what - if I go long, so what...let him learn from the bad spots and the good spots alike so he knows what feels best for him. It was hard to not interfere this morning. I just wanted to grab his face and say "no, squish together a little bit and we can fit one more step in!" so we ended up going long a few times but he kept his pace and didn't rush to or away from the jump.

I'll keep plugging away!

Luckily I have a dear friend who also rides at 6:30 / 7 a.m. so we've agreed to each pick a day where the other person will be ground person and set jumps,poles,whatever, so we can help each other figure things out.

"It's amazing how there's no time to do it right the first time but always time to do it over again."

DMK
Mar. 1, 2002, 07:17 PM
In Baby Greenie Land we call 'em those "other" distances... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And every baby needs an introduction! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Everyone's right - it is all about pace and rhythm. And right from the beginning I put most of my training emphasis on rhythm. I don't worry to much about the speed of the gait, I let them get comfortable in the gait that their balance allows them to have, and as long as it isn't full tilt, hell bent from leather, we learn first about rhythm and consistancy. Then after we have managed that, we go on to working long and low, then gradually moving that bee-hind up into a frame /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And pretty much from the beginning I have them going over something, even if all they can manage is a pole at the walk.

I built a rather crude jump shute today and introduced RV to it. He is really a pretty agreeable fellow - it was basically just a jump with poles set on the standard to guide the lunge line over, and he never blinked an eye, just went on through! /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I built it up to a decent 2'6 and he just trucked on over /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Oh yea, and my (highly irrational) fears about this horse's jump were laid to rest...

February Greenies (http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=691099205&f=4703057034&m=9783072824)


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

HopelessHunter
Mar. 2, 2002, 06:50 AM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Is Whisper a greenie? LOL he doesnt seem like it- i dont think he is..

RRB
Mar. 2, 2002, 07:01 AM
My greenie doesn't lack for confidence, but he doesn't always have the coordination to pull off the "other" distances. He couldn't chip, but instead preferred to launch from half a stride away. So we had to work on chipping and figuring out a way to get over the jump from anywhere, just to make him safe. Of course, when we were supposed to be finding a chip-type distance, I kept coming up on the perfect distances, time after time. And now that we're getting ready for our first horse show, the chip is everywhere.

--R

Merry
Mar. 2, 2002, 11:37 AM
I must add here that all of our greenies canter like a bazillion ground rails long before they canter any sort of "jump". All along they're trotting fences with cavaletti or trot poles to help them. Then, eventually, we trot a little exercise, land cantering, canter a pole, then, whoopee, canter the low jump.

And yes, we often meet and greet the "other distance". /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at." -- The Sundance Kid

DMK
Mar. 2, 2002, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merry:

And yes, we often meet and greet the "other distance". /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Greet it? GREET IT!?!?!? I take it out for a seven course meal at the finest restaurants!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

TrickOfTheTrade
Mar. 2, 2002, 09:10 PM
Thankfully Trick will go from just about anywhere als long as he is not totaally crooked (which is always my fault). My trainer loves him, lol, when we get a new jump as long as I don't pull him off he just goes right over and makes sure he dosen't hit it. (Those new jumps bite you know /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Lord Helpus
Mar. 3, 2002, 09:41 PM
Why a timely topic for my return to the board. Parminch can attest to my expertise on finding "the other distance", and in public, at a schooling show she was running, down here in gorgeous Southern Pines, NC. Much to my total embarrassment...... I generally do not plan on practicing the "other distance" at a show, but Mikey insisted, so we did....

We will now stay home until we decide when and where we are going to work on that dastardly "other distance" (and take a couple of lesons for good measure.)

Speaking of S Pines, I am so in love with this place, that I am selling my place in Lexington and building here and moving here permanantly. S Pines is God's gift to the horse person. Unbelievable. Wish I had never left 20+ years ago. I just did not appreciate it enough back then....

PS Health seems to be 90% better -- good enough to ride. (and an excuse for not having tight enough legs to ride without stirrups... :O))

What did I miss in the last 2 months?

Bumpkin
Mar. 3, 2002, 10:43 PM
I am so happy to see you are on here tonight!!!

You sound so much better....and happier.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

LaurieB
Mar. 4, 2002, 07:39 AM
I'm so glad to hear your health is improving. I can't think of anything of import you missed, except that our looong Baby Greenie thread has now been broken up into monthly installments. We're probably still the best mid-life therapy group on the BB. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BustersMom
Mar. 4, 2002, 07:52 AM
Pam, We have missed you!! Glad you are feeling better. What have you missed? Nothing we can't catch you up on.

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group
Remember, dear, if you're not bleeding and a fairly vital organ is not hanging out of your shirt, you keep riding

DMK
Mar. 4, 2002, 08:24 AM
Pam, glad to see you back! I'd say you were probably feeling oh-so-much better because spring was around the corner, but since I woke up to unplanned snow flurries this morning... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Also, glad to see you embraced the Other Distance Philosophy... It's the first step to admitting you own a greenie /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Now that I am free of the Distance God's Control, I just need to wrest control from the Drift Demons. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Duffy
Mar. 4, 2002, 08:37 AM
Pam - it's wonderful to hear you sound so happy and well! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bumpkin
Mar. 4, 2002, 08:54 AM
Oh, oh this is making me upset....you get snow again???
What is up with that?
I know it is lovely here right now, crisp yet sunny.
Maybe we will get one last chance for some snow this week /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lesson tonight, I am certain after the clinic last weekend, we will be doing a lot of grids and gymnastics. I love them /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

DMK
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:39 AM
Bumpkin, "snow" was sort of a harsh word, we just had some white things floating around (they are gone now)... but while YOU northern types should be seeing some snow, the fact that it was cold enough HERE to even attempt it was pretty depressing.

My little spring bulbs are trying sooo hard to bloom!!!

My horses are SO sick of blankets!

I am SO ready to go back to night turnout!!!


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Heather
Mar. 4, 2002, 10:24 AM
Well, Lion and I had two fabulous jumping lessons, and one great hack where I pointed him over evey little log in the field and he went over everything the first time (walking past the logs is another matter--over OK, next too, very scary), then went to take a lesson on Friday and found him playing the bite and strike game with his friend Dutch Boy OVER THE ROUND BALE FEEDER. SO needless to say he had a few superficial scrpaes and a little swelling in the right front ankle. He's sound on the straight away, but just a hair off on a circle.

So, he had the weekend off, and I'll check him tonight and take him for a walk. Nothing major, just dumb and a few days of setback. But, I swear, this horse goes out of his way to stick his legs in odd places. He's so funny because he doesn't panic (thankfully--so he's never been, knowck on wood, really hurt) but this is a bout the fifth time I've seen him with his leg stuck in something (water trough, fence, hay feeder), calmly trying to figure out how to extract himself.

But, on the topic at hand, what I discovered the last time, is that although he's a very light horse to ride on the flat, he needs a lot more leg over fences, a lot earlier than I thought. He's so soft off the leg on the flat, and has that OTTB tendancy to land faster than he took off, that I've been concentrating on "riding soothing" rather than just riding. And, I tended to give the big "go" squeeze over the pole, about 1-2 strides out. I find if I do it about 5 strides out, he just goes nicely. I shoudl add this is in direct opposition to my last horse, who needed to be left alone in the appraoch, and big "GO" at the base, so I'm having to THINK a lot over these dumb logs and cross rails to ride the horse I have now, not the one I used to have.

You learn something every day, I guess, LOL /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Hopeful Hunter
Mar. 4, 2002, 12:10 PM
Personally I so rarely realize those "perfect" distances exist that I've not just greeted, wined and dined and housed the "other" ones, I've officially adopted them. It's a rare day indeed over fences that I don't find a slew of the other distances welcoming me back.

To help we've been trying to really work on the flat more. So much more that we've sort of...embraced dressage. Yes, a wanna-be hunter princess did a real live schooling dressage show this weekend. Yup, I did. Two tests -- Training 1 & 2 -- and hauling...twice. And we lived.

We almost didn't go since we finally got some much needed rain here. In fact, we called to confirm and discovered it was on at the minute, so we were now running tight on time to get there for our tests. And this was the first time two of us had ever been to a dressage show so we had not idea of protocol, how it worked or anything. Not fun.

We had several people from our farm going. One - the one who was going to haul two of the horses - backed out - which meant we had 3 horses to take and a two horse trailer. Fortunately, it's 10 minutes away so I hauled twice. Lynn's horse was awful to load and bad to haul --- he's a big dressage WB cross and he was wobbly the whole time. And that took more time. Nancy's horse, Oreo, loaded fine but almost killed us flying off. Then Ash decided he didn't want to load, either! We finally got them there to discover Nancy had to go into the ring for her first test in 20 minutes. Ack! But she did GREAT!!!!!!!!! A very well ridden set of tests, and in the end, TWO ribbons for them!

I had a bit longer to get Ash ready. The rain made me decide sadly not to put on his snazzy leopard polos -- but I did have my saddle pad and gloves. Ash was very, very looky, and could NOT deal with the fact that the outdoor warmup ring had only a "fence" of raised railroad ties that he had to walk over to enter. He balked big time (fortunately I was bright enough to be on the ground for this) and then literally jumped almost into my lap to get in. He's SUCH a weenie! But once in the ring, he was pretty good. Still very inattentive, but doing what I asked, and even cantering instead of galloping. He didn't like the puddles, but went through a couple of smaller ones (and over or around the bigger ones) - a major victory.

Then it was time for our first test. I had someone lead him in (another step up and brick pathwork made that the smarter choice). The Fibar footing was odd to him, but he did react quite a bit to the......mirrors! In the Indoor!!!! He did not buck and spin as I'd feared, though -- instead, I've finally realized that this horse gives you a minute to tell him what to do when he's scared. Here he basically stalled, and because it was just a dressage test (no scary fences to frighten his rider) I was able to say "no, forward" and he went. Not well, not without major concern, but he went.

Unfortunately, our test was an exercise in creative geometry as he tried to go forward but not forward into the scary mirrors. We had a lot of cloverleafs. Our score was a pretty bad 55%, with lots of "need to use corners" and "organize movements and bend" -- uh, yeah, right.

The judge, however told me she loved my gloves. So there! But she didn't say a lot else to me....odd (gee? Could that be because our DQ's dressage coach commented to a friend while watching me that "she looks good up there and they're riding well but if that were my student I'd tell her 'you're riding like a hunter princess - this is dressage'!" Oh, and Nancy noticed I was the ONLY person there with a close contact saddle -- all the others were a dressage or AP style. Hey, what can I say....)

Our second test was greatly improved, as even the judge commented. I did not try to get anything like "on the bit" -- I just wanted Ash to go into the scary mirror corners and give me more accurate departs and stay in the same rhythm. Except for finding the one swale in the arena, nearly tripping and getting rattled he did very well. Not a bit dressagy, but had it been a hunter hack we might have pinned. As it was, we only got a 55.85% in that one, but he did improve to all 6s on the collective marks.

So, competitively it was a bust, but it was a good learning experience. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

mwalshe
Mar. 4, 2002, 12:42 PM
All I have to say about last weekend is

How much snow was ON that damn roof to begin with?

Did all of have to come off while I was riding?

/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Beezer
Mar. 4, 2002, 01:32 PM
"Snow? What's that??" /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Welcome back, Pam! We've missed you!!

Did someone mention "cantering poles"? Sam is just beginning that exercise. With the expected comic results. Who knew one horse could make so many awkward efforts? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Yesterday, however, he worked on more gymnastics. Bizarrest moment: the plow-through of the second element. Apparently, it escaped Sam's notice that Merry had raised it for us. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif You could almost see him look back at the poles, now scattered like toothpicks, and wonder, "Huh. How'd that happen? I cleared it the last time." Fortunately, he figured it out the next time through.

***I see trees of green, red roses too. I watch 'em bloom for me and for you. And I think to myself ... what a wonderful world. Yes, what a wonderful world." -- Louie Armstrong.***

JustaLurker
Mar. 4, 2002, 01:45 PM
Welcome back, Pam.

It's so good to hear that you're so much better and that you even ventured off to a schooling show. It does sound as if Mikey may have lost a bit of his education over the winter, but I'm sure you'll have him whipped into shape soon.

Gosh, what a surprise to hear that you're going to sell the Kentucky farm and move back to your "childhood" home. But, if it's as lovely as you describe it, I certainly don't blame you.

Anyhow, it's great to have you back on the Board. We've really missed your posts. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Cheers, Maggi

LaurieB
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beezer:
Yesterday, however, he worked on more gymnastics. Bizarrest moment: the plow-through of the second element. Apparently, it escaped Sam's notice that Merry had raised it for us. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif You could almost see him look back at the poles, now scattered like toothpicks, and wonder, "Huh. How'd that happen? I cleared it the last time." Fortunately, he figured it out the next time through.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh Beezer, we can do that too. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I have a very entertaining tape of Tess jumping a three foot course for the first time. First fence: audible thunk, followed by sound of trainer saying, "They're up, Tess!" Second fence: lighter thunk. Trainer, "They're still up." /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

6*NvMe*6
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:47 PM
I think ill share my baby greenie day

I have a OTTB, 4yrs old, lately he has been kinda physco with bolting and then bucking so naturally I have been a little nervous to ride him.

TOday I had my my lesson and he was going incredibly well, not running to or after the jumps, and just being a star and happy as a clown. Then we hit a long diagonal coming home at a canter and went very very very long. well all hell broke lose after that and we went on our bolting then rodeo trip. Man I barely stayed on. After that he was good but still those things scare the crap outa me.

caitlin
*I can can sum up three words on life - it goes on*

Lord Helpus
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:35 PM
Glad the gang is still all here. I am back on Warren after he has had 6 months off and it sure is nice to ride a made horse. "Cept he jumps me lose over 2'6", so I had better figure out how to get a tighter leg real fast :O)). Have lessons scheduled on both Warren and Mikey for Wed with Don Sheehan. Hope he is nice to an old, out of shape lady.... Can't wait. A real lesson means that show season is not far away -- there is an A show in 3 weeks I am aiming for with the big Dubya. Who would have thunk it 2 months ago????

Yea horses and horse shows!

wadino
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:40 PM
I was just going to ask about Warren. Those pics of him are amazing. Good luck, and it really is GREAT to see you back and here you talking about your horses and you riding them.

-Ryan

My VERY UN-expert opinion.

Bumpkin
Mar. 4, 2002, 11:55 PM
Great goal.
This is just so fabulous, we have missed you so very, very much /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

LaurieB
Mar. 5, 2002, 06:57 AM
Pam, where is the A show that you're going to?

Duffy
Mar. 5, 2002, 08:33 AM
Go Pam! Don trains the lady who has my old horse!!! I think they just got back from Ocala. From what I heard, my old boy was perfect. Anyway, the lady who owns him is an older adult and is terribly nice. E-mail me if you want more information. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BustersMom
Mar. 5, 2002, 08:51 AM
We will probably head over there after the Hunter Trials. Unfortunate that they are on the same weekend but ....that's life. Our Children's Pony is planning on being there and we are anxious to see him.

So much to do, so little time.

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group
Remember, dear, if you're not bleeding and a fairly vital organ is not hanging out of your shirt, you keep riding

Bumpkin
Mar. 5, 2002, 09:23 AM
woohooo!! I am sitting here seeing some snow flakes!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

oooo false alarm, it went away.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

[This message was edited by Bumpkin on Mar. 05, 2002 at 12:29 PM.]

Pocket Pony
Mar. 5, 2002, 11:52 AM
Well, it wasn't so much a *trail* ride, but a *street* ride and Mickey did very well. We left the property and crossed the street with two other horses from the barn. They turned right and we turned left. Success #1 - no separation anxiety as they went the other direction.

The whole time we were walking on the trail that is next to the street I was talking to him and he was doing just fine. He was looky, but fine.
We turned into a private road that is a loop where people trail ride (I think there's a trail there but we didn't get far enough to find it).

Up ahead a dog started barking. Mickey assumed giraffe pose to check out the situation. We sat and breathed (well I breathed, he was trembling underneath me) and sat and breathed and trembled and sat and waited...he just stared at the dog. (sidenote - Mickey likes dogs and I've never seen him be scared of one) Dog goes inside. I try to urge Mickey on. Battle #1: "um, no way mom...I'm not crossing that bridge!" it didn't even dawn on me that he might be looking at the bridge with the water running underneath it. His body didn't register any reaction to the crop. He wanted to turn in circles, so we did...around and around and around. I got dizzy. We took a step forward. Good. I waited. Urged him on. Turned in circles and ended up farther from the bridge. I dismount and lead him across without any problems. Dork.

We continue to walk down the lovely private road (very quiet, too), looking for something to use as a mounting block. Decide to use someone's fence. Success #2: I'm back in the saddle.

La-de-da, dum-de-dum, I'm talking to him as we walk down the street. A lovely day, indeed. STop. There are sheep ahead. NOOOOO!!! Not sheep! Nevermind that we just passed a huge weird looking 10 ft tall sculpture in someone's yard without batting an eye. There are sheep ahead. Or wait, is it the mailbox that he's lookign at? We sit and wait and wait and breathe and wait. Success #3: I get him to take two steps forward.

Decided that is enough for the day (since I have to get back to ride two more horses) so we turn around. Lovely walk back to...the bridge! Oh no!!! Battle #2: getting over the bridge again. We look and wait and spin and look and wait and back up and spin and back up and finally remember that the crop means forward so we trot over the bridge. Success #4.

So I am singing his praises up the wazoo. "Mickey, you are such a goooood boooyyy! I am sooooo proud of you!" over and over and over. Walk back to the barn along the trail by the street was fine. Reward him at home with grazing.

All in all it was a very pleasant experience. I think I may try it again this weekend.

(And of course I was wearing my CO Hampton - you know those helmets are very comfortable!!!)

"It's amazing how there's no time to do it right the first time but always time to do it over again."

Pocket Pony
Mar. 5, 2002, 11:55 AM
And welcome back Pam, we missed you!!!

"It's amazing how there's no time to do it right the first time but always time to do it over again."

Jumpsalil
Mar. 5, 2002, 03:07 PM
I DONT THINK SOOOOO! Come on he is 15!!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Trust me, counting ceilings tiles is fun!! Have you ever tryed to make ants?? Well that's pretty fun too. Who here likes llama pellets?? Ever tried piling all the pillows in your house in your dining room and diving onto them from the ottoman? Well that's pretty fun too! AHHHHH the school jello is after me!!! Wait.....is that Michael Jackson and a Hershey's bar?? Uhhh...I think I'll go vacuum the cat or shampoo the lawn....you know something productive like that.

BustersMom
Mar. 5, 2002, 06:19 PM
Whisper??? I agree, I think not.

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group
Remember, dear, if you're not bleeding and a fairly vital organ is not hanging out of your shirt, you keep riding

Cinnybren
Mar. 6, 2002, 08:45 AM
Well, I've been lurking and not posting much, because I wanted to post "Good News"! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif After many vet visits and two chiro visits.... Murphy is getting back to his happy self. I've been banned from riding him for the past month and he's been in full training at the barn. (I've been riding anything they ask me to at the barn, to keep fit.) So, the asst. trainer called me yesterday to tell me that Murphy had been "perfect" the last two days! Yippie!!! I think we may have rounded the corner back to healthy, happy horse-land! Another few weeks of slow steady progress, and the vet thought we could go back to the "learning" how to be a jumping horse. Yea!

Beezer - I can't wait until we get to try and demolish a few jumps. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Murph used to get at least one per lesson!

Pam - Welcome back. Good to hear that your feeling better.

Bumpkin
Mar. 6, 2002, 09:17 AM
Glad to hear Murphy is doing better, the past year has not been a good one for him /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Cinnybren
Mar. 6, 2002, 10:24 AM
Thanks Bumpkin! I'm still keeping fingers, toes, etc... crossed. But I'm very hopeful that we are back on track! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

He's SUCH a good boy and tries so hard to do what you ask. Last week was his 6th birthday (same day as mine /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) And I made your horse cookie recipe for him and his "friends". We were VERY popular at the barn.

Bumpkin
Mar. 6, 2002, 04:13 PM
The Bumpkinette has the flu, so looks like I get her lesson tonight, oh joy /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We had a lesson on Monday night, and Elliot was awesome /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
We did the same grid that Kevin Freeman had them doing at the clinic, and Elliot took me right through it with no lugging and tugging and I came out the other side feeling like I brushed away some mental problems I have been dealing with about letting go and going forward. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The grid was: X B X 1 I 2 I 1 I

B=bounce /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Merry
Mar. 6, 2002, 10:24 PM
Okay, so it's March, and officially spring and officially the Hanoverian Cow Beast is 4 and so it's time to begin the March Madness of seriously "jumping" it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It does not appear to enjoy jumping.
It does not appear to relish my forcing it to move off my right leg.

Me: "Move over, get off my right leg and stop falling in."
Cow Beast (Barbie): "Stop poking me with your spur! Cut it out!"
Me, applying stick behind right leg: "Dang you, Cow Beast, move over!"
Cow Beast (now displaying trademark double-barreled mule kick, where I can hear her tail swish behind my ears): "Don't hit me with that crop! Stop it!"

And so it goes. Talk about a lack of a work ethic. I swear I wasn't kidding about it being a perfect Mounted Police horse for the L.A. Co. Sheriff's Posse.

Problem is, she does auto flying lead changes, is a 10 mover, is cute as a bug and lopes over the jumps without getting quick. *sigh* Still, I'm thinkin' it's time to fire up the spit, slather on some sauce and grill the Cow. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

P.S. Welcome back, Pam!

Bumpkin
Mar. 6, 2002, 10:52 PM
I want the Cow Beast!!!

She is the perfect matching bookend for my Awesome Elliot.
He has no feeling as to what a right leg is, and I am quite fine with that. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hahaha
Whatever you want my darling little sweet Elliot /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Beezer
Mar. 7, 2002, 01:26 PM
It's a beautiful thing -- to watch. A great spectator sport. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

What Merry neglected to mention are the sound effects that go along with the sporting event: Barbie's huffs and squeals of displeasure at being disciplined and made to work, Merry's grunts of effort to make her do said work and the laughter over the Cow Beast's tantrum-like response to her demands, and above it all, QHSM's mournful cry of "DON'T BE MEAN TO MY BARBIE!!" /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

***I see trees of green, red roses too. I watch 'em bloom for me and for you. And I think to myself ... what a wonderful world. Yes, what a wonderful world." -- Louie Armstrong.***

Janet
Mar. 7, 2002, 01:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Me: "Move over, get off my right leg and stop falling in."
Cow Beast (Barbie): "Stop poking me with your spur! Cut it out!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My older mare (16) sometimes does this. When she does, I immediately DEMAND (with legs swinging if necessary) a hand gallop.

"If you aren't going to move away from the leg, the only other acceptable response is FORWARD. Kicking out is a non starter."

Beezer
Mar. 7, 2002, 02:24 PM
Barbie gets the same "you must go forward, you have no options" hand-gallop treatment. It's just the histronics leading up to it that are amusing. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

***I see trees of green, red roses too. I watch 'em bloom for me and for you. And I think to myself ... what a wonderful world. Yes, what a wonderful world." -- Louie Armstrong.***

Bumpkin
Mar. 7, 2002, 03:15 PM
I got jumped off in my lesson today in preparation for the Clinic with Lindy Townley this weekend!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Went a lot better than the last time I fell off, no concussion and I jumped right up and said "I AM OKAY"!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Got back on, and did the oxer on the diagonal a few more times.
I have to learn to go faster!!!
It is just such a joy to canter along with a slow moving horse, that I forget Elliot does need to have some speed to take us over the jump without having to LEAP hugely over it, thus launching poor hefty me out of the saddle and around his neck /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Heels down, heels down, heels down is my new chant instead of one, two, one, two... LOL /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I better start taking the Aleve now for what I shall feel like tomorrow /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Triple Crown
Mar. 7, 2002, 03:37 PM
Merry and Beezer, you're bringing back such memories! I had one that had a fit periodically...talk about a spectator sport! Trying to go forward or move off one leg or the other while trying desperately to stay on through the HUGE bucks that could be performed from a standstill... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I never could understand why people LOVED to crowd around and watch that horse go. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bumpkin, hope you feel ok tomorrow!

mwalshe
Mar. 7, 2002, 03:46 PM
I had a student with a horse like that.

I couldn't figure out why she didn't want to canter him till I got on him.

OH!

His name: ~Surprise~

LaurieB
Mar. 7, 2002, 05:39 PM
Bumpkin, glad to hear this fall had no repercussions. Maybe I'm odd, but I find falls like that a confidence booster. You know, hey, I may be old, but I can still bounce some of the time. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Tomorrow, Tess and I head out to her first show of the year. And the big question--after why are my breeches so damn tight? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif --is how much did she forget since last November? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Duffy
Mar. 7, 2002, 06:09 PM
Isn't it amazing how athletic those cows can be when THEY wish to be??? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Glad you bounced this time, Bumpkin! Have fun at the clinic. Let Elliott continue forward and heels down, sweetie! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LaurieB - you and Tess are going to have a blast!!! Good luck, dahlink! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Wish us luck tomorrow too! May Gramento's brain be on the same wavelength as last week. Hmmmm...It's about 40 degrees warmer. Maybe I should bring a pair of spurs tomorrow. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Merry
Mar. 8, 2002, 10:03 AM
So yesterday, in between rain showers, I decided to continue the March Madness and climb back aboard, albeit this time back in the western saddle once again. Can we all say, "Cowgirl up!" /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

After some suppling at the walk, we launched right into trotting and then, yes folks, the canter in our favorite direction, to the right. Immediately, when asked to bend around the turns, I got the Missy Pissy response. Yes, I engaged the dreaded Cow Beast in battle. Yes, she lurched, pinned her bovine ears and humped her back. But yes, I boldly cantered onward. And onward. And onward. Eventually her head dropped, she became incredibly supple and soft around the corners, and hmmm... was actually bent in the direction she was traveling. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

So, let's see, where was I. Oh yes:

Cow Beast: 14
Merry, the "Borg Queen": 21

Lord Helpus
Mar. 8, 2002, 03:54 PM
And some news from the greenie front in S Pines: For the first time, both Mikey and Warren have been schooled by a professional. Mikey, because I had taught him to make a major 2 stride out bid at the jumps, looking for that long spot that we both love. He needed someone to teach him the quiet spot that his mom knows exists, but was unable to find, what with the major launch and run we were involved in...

And Warren, because there is an A show the week after next, and he needs to start the new season with a steady ride so he can get ready to go first year (finally).

Warren's session was actually quite funny. Don kept missing the right to left lead change on him. "HMMMMM," says I. "I have never missed a lead change on this horse, and I taught him his leads. I just throw all my weight onto my right butt and kick as hard as I can with my left leg....." "Oh...." says Don..... (who was wasting time doing silly things like rebending him and moving him over...).

When the session was over, Don said "I notice that coming out of corners, just when I want him to come forward, he sucks back with me. Why is that? And then 3 strides in front of the fence, his ears prick." "Easy" I say. "We are both waiting for me to see my spot so we can then canter forward out of the corner. Warren knows he is not allowed to canter forward until I think I see a spot. And his ears prick when he finally agrees with me and we see the same spot." "Ohhhh....." says Don (looking bewildered).

I think that Don is realizing that it may take a bit of time to learn to ride Warren by Warren's rules. So he has made room in his schedule to train on him every other day (even Sunday...). After all, it took me 4 years to teach Warren to go like this. Don only has one week to learn the code. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif And the Big Dubya sure ain't gonna change in one week, so Don had better figure him out. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LaurieB
Mar. 8, 2002, 04:58 PM
Pam, I don't think it's Warren's rules Don has to learn to ride by. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Merry
Mar. 8, 2002, 05:16 PM
Gee, it appears that Beezer and LordHelpus have been to the same riding school! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I, on the other hand, gallop boldly out of a corner on my greenie and when I'm about three strides out extort either:
A.) "Man, this is going to ride to a perfect spot."
Or---
B.) "Ah, sh*t! Blew that one."

"You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at." -- The Sundance Kid

wtywmn4
Mar. 8, 2002, 05:20 PM
Pam, we are so happy you are back!!!!

We have missed you. And being 90% back is fabulous. And you even opted for a show. Other distance??? Who hasn't done that at least a dozen times, LOL.

Have heard that S Pines really is a horsemans paradise, bar none. Glad you are staying. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ah Merry, ummm need one of your many bits. Chuck is lugging, and pulls me hard enough to come out of the saddle. Half halts don't work, he seems oblivious, grrrr. Bares down, tried to let go, then of course am suckered in to a good pull. UGH!!!! What is it, do they sit in their stalls and come up with these to see if we're paying attention? Or is it just spring? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif And, oh yes could use some of your canter out of the corners. Am with Lord Helpus and Beezer on this one. Pick pick pick, there is a spot somewhere, I know I can find it!!!!!! By jove there it is, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee......"excuse me, you just left one out, did you mean to do that???" Ah well no...

LuckyMe
Mar. 8, 2002, 06:14 PM
Hey I'm glad I found this thread and we are back on track as far as keeping up with the bay greenie stories. My latest story involves a big crash, plenty of nice bruises, and a busted shoulder. details on off course if anyone cares to read. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Sounds like everyone is keeping busy, springs just around the corner and I'm sure those of you who are planning to show this year are gearing up for the season. Merry I read about your Bbarbie cow a few pages back...auto changes and cantering around over fences without changing pace?? and wait a minute she's quiet on trails too, right? doesnt sound like such a cow to me, send her my way! still waiting for some pics of the malibu barbie-cow!

Bumpkin
Mar. 8, 2002, 06:52 PM
Kevin Freeman spoke of the "Twilight Zone" coming around the corner and looking for that spot.

He said to ride forward through the "Fog" and don't bother looking until you are about 4 out. It will be there.
(This is what I recall hearing)

I had the "Twilight Zone" yesterday....

Wty on the bits Elliot LOVES to lug. Found the copper/stainless alternating bit worked really well with him. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We keep the copper corkscrew for shows, but haven't used it since last fall.

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

wtywmn4
Mar. 8, 2002, 07:38 PM
Thanks Bumpy, will give that one a try tomorrow!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LaurieB
Mar. 11, 2002, 08:11 AM
So we did the year's first show and you just know I have a picture. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We entered conservatively and moved up just one division but after a wild warm-up on Friday, Tess settled in and remembered her job beautifully. There were plenty of pilot error mistakes (especially on Saturday when I could not seem to get out of a particular bending line to save my life /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) but I think Tess may be ready not to be a Baby Greenie anymore.

Maybe just plain green? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hopeful Hunter
Mar. 11, 2002, 08:33 AM
LaurieB, that looks like a FINE horse! The heck with Baby Green -- maybe even the heck with Green! Enjoy her...I only dream about that kind of lovely look still.....

Bumpkin
Mar. 11, 2002, 08:36 AM
She looks gorgeous!!!

Keep up the good work /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Duffy
Mar. 11, 2002, 10:04 AM
YEAH Tess and LaurieB!!! Ya'll look vondervar, girl!!!! Congrats on your 2002 showing debut!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gramento was great at The Barracks also: No discombobulated (sp? lol) lead changes, etc., and he jumped some great jumps. He wasn't sure about the line next to the judge, but he wasn't the only one. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

He's definitely getting the hack thing down. We had to pick up our canters in some rather precarious spots, but he was perfect. I used to be able to position those much better, but with having to manuever his humongous body around the other horses and jumps, I don't have the talent to finesse where I finish trotting, etc. yet! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

wtywmn4
Mar. 11, 2002, 05:06 PM
LaurieB, she is one very fancy mare. You should be very proud, Tess looks like fun. Congrats on a good show!!

LaurieB
Mar. 12, 2002, 06:57 AM
Thanks, guys!

Duffy, I'm glad to hear your show went well, too. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lord Helpus
Mar. 12, 2002, 07:00 AM
And it happens in the blink of an eye...

Sophie Moose had to be euthanized yesterday... She was turned out in the ring. I was letting her play a little before lunging her. A lovely day, sun shining, temp in the 70's. She had just rolled in the sand. I decided to catch her to start lunging, but she was enjoying herself too much so she trotted, then cantered away. Then she put in a big, "feel good" buck. She got her hind leg caught over the top rail of the ring. It unbalanced her, and she tried to regain her balance by moving her front end over into the rail.

She went through the fence and speared her chest with a sharp piece of board. The hole went onto her chest wall so far it went into her lungs (so said the vet who arrived within 5 minutes; by then she was already in shock).

Start to finish, the whole thing was over in 20 minutes. It still seems unreal.

May she jump the big jumps in heaven.

R I P Sophie Moose.

Bumpkin
Mar. 12, 2002, 07:26 AM
I am so sorry /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Merlin
Mar. 12, 2002, 07:42 AM
Pam,
My deepest condolences to you. I'm so sorry about Sophie Moose. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

wtywmn4
Mar. 12, 2002, 07:44 AM
OMG*** Pam, I am so very sorry...Thats awful, you have my deepest condolences /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif You have been thru so much, and now this...Truly a BIG hug is being sent to you.

LaurieB
Mar. 12, 2002, 08:03 AM
Pam, how terrible for you. I am so sorry. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BustersMom
Mar. 12, 2002, 08:07 AM
I am so sorry. What a terrible loss. Know that we are all thinking of you.

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group
Remember, dear, if you're not bleeding and a fairly vital organ is not hanging out of your shirt, you keep riding

Everythingbutwings
Mar. 12, 2002, 08:16 AM
What a horrible year you have had. Poor Sophie Moose, my condolences. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle." Winston Churchill

Hopeful Hunter
Mar. 12, 2002, 08:25 AM
Pam -- I didn't have the priviledge of knowing much about you or Sophie Moose, but please accept my deep condolences on your tragic loss. There are no words, but perhaps it may help in time to remember the good times. May you somehow find some peace and comfort at this horrible time. I'm so sorry -- Gina

"We who choose to surround ourselves with lives even more temporary than our own, live within a fragile circle, easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps, we still would live no other way. We cherish memory as the only certain immortality, never fully understanding the necessary plan."

Irving Townsend.

SillyHorse
Mar. 12, 2002, 08:31 AM
Adding my condolences. I'm so sorry to hear this sad news.

DMK
Mar. 12, 2002, 08:31 AM
Oh Pam, I am so sorry to hear about Sophie Moose... /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Duffy
Mar. 12, 2002, 08:32 AM
OMG Pam. I am so sorry. It's just not fair. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ;(

Louise
Mar. 12, 2002, 08:49 AM
I am so sorry that this happened. I hate cyberspace sometimes, because I can't give you a big hug, all I can give you is a cyberhug, and the knowledge that I grieve for you.

((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))

---------------------------
"We ride and never worry about the fall.
I guess that's just the cowboy in us all."
Tim McGraw

Pocket Pony
Mar. 12, 2002, 09:47 AM
Oh Pam! I'm so sorry. What a shocking experience for the both of you. Here's to Sophie Moose galloping along in the fields of horse heaven.
(((((((((((((((hugs to you))))))))))))))))))))))

"It's amazing how there's no time to do it right the first time but always time to do it over again."

AMom
Mar. 12, 2002, 10:39 AM
Oh Pam....I am so sorry...I rarely get to come to the bb lately, but I have really enjoyed your posts and updates. My condolences to you and your herd....

Merry
Mar. 12, 2002, 10:49 AM
That is so tragic, Pam. Those things happen so fast. I'm so sorry!

"You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at." -- The Sundance Kid

Jair
Mar. 12, 2002, 10:57 AM
I'm so sorry about your horse Pam /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Please know that I am thinking about you.

Remi and me
Mar. 12, 2002, 11:09 AM
I'm so sorry, Pam, to hear of your loss. My condolences to you.

Lord Helpus
Mar. 12, 2002, 11:20 AM
Thanks, guys. I feel so pathetic, posting all this sad news here. It seems that little goes right, but in reality, much is good, I just seem to come here for comfort for the bad stuff. It really helps to share, and you all are great.

Go hug your horses (even Barbie cow /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )extra hard tonight. Its amazing how fast things can change. Warren and Mikey and Bear-man all got extra carrots and hugs today, just for being themselves.

Sleepy
Mar. 12, 2002, 11:27 AM
I am at a loss for words, so I will simply say how very, very sorry I am, Pam.

NinaL aka Chrissy
Mar. 12, 2002, 11:56 AM
My sincere condolences on the loss of your Sophie Moose. I lost my mare two weeks ago in an accident and I am still wondering why it had to happen.

The support I was offered by this group was a huge comfort to me and I feel I will never be able to fully express my gratitude to the members of this community.

I will give my horses an extra pat, hug and treat tonight in memory of Sophie Moose.

Take care,

Nina

"We who choose to surround ourselves with lives even more temporary than our own, live within a fragile circle, easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps, we still would live no other way. We cherish memory as the only certain immortality, never fully understanding the necessary plan."

Irving Townsend.

baymare
Mar. 12, 2002, 12:11 PM
I am so saddened by your news. I was browsing the first few pages of the thread, all happy to read that you had regained a good measure of your health. Then wham. Please know that we all have a share of your sorrow, and our thoughts and sympathy go out to you.

Seven
Mar. 12, 2002, 12:26 PM
Pam, I'm very sorry for your loss. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

=^+^=

/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chef Jade
Mar. 12, 2002, 12:39 PM
That is just tragic. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

You have been through so much lately. Sometimes the world tests us in ways we will never understand.

I'll make sure that Chef (whose nickname was also Moose) meets up with Sophie Moose in Horsey Heaven. And Joaquin (our groom who passed away several months ago) will be there to take real good care of her.

Janet
Mar. 12, 2002, 03:11 PM
That is so horrible. I am so sorry.

I watched a good mare break her leg in a freak pastrue accident- it just happens so fast.

Cinnybren
Mar. 12, 2002, 04:27 PM
Pam - I'm so sorry to hear about Sophie Moose. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
That's just so very sad.

I hope I'm not committing a huge faux-pas, but really want to chime in with a little hopeful news of my own.

I get to ride my Murphy! Yes! After being banned by the trainer for the past 6 weeks (while he was in full training, trying to remeber how to be a GOOD boy), I have a lesson tomorrow and Thursday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed (not sure how well I'll ride that way, but...) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JustaLurker
Mar. 12, 2002, 04:35 PM
Oh Pam, I'm so sorry to hear this terrible news about Sophie Moose. Everyone has already said everything there is to be said and I can add no more.

I want to add that I do hope that your health continues to improve until you are again 100%.

AAJumper
Mar. 12, 2002, 04:47 PM
Pam, I'm so sorry to hear that. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

Peggy
Mar. 12, 2002, 05:55 PM
So, so sorry Pam. Hope Sophie Moose. Hope she is up their galloping and jumping with my Jive and others.

LaurieB
Mar. 12, 2002, 07:38 PM
BNH, good luck with your lesson and let us know how it goes.

Catwoman
Mar. 13, 2002, 08:42 AM
Pam
I am sorry for your loss of Sophine Moose. I don't post very often but I read what others have posted. It has been fun to read about everyone's babies and see all the same things in my own horse. Then something like this happens and we are really brought up short reaffirming how vulnerable they can be. I know you loved her very much.

Merry
Mar. 13, 2002, 09:46 AM
Pam, could you please email me? I don't think your current/old address is working.

"Beware of geeks bearing gifts."

LuckyMe
Mar. 13, 2002, 09:56 AM
Pam, like everyone else, I'm so sorry to hear about your Sophie. Its difficult to lose any horse, but probably even more so when its a young one with so much ahead of them.

hang in there, things'll surely brighten up for you...

Cinnybren
Mar. 13, 2002, 01:14 PM
Just got back to the office after my lesson and....(drumroll please).....

Murphy was WONDERFUL!!!

We had a fantastic lesson. W/T/C both directions. Head stayed down most of the time, could feel that hind-end pushing. He wasn't lugging into my hands (much) and he even stayed at a fairly decent rythmic pace! To top it off, his wonderful floaty canter is back. I almost cried after the first canter circle it felt so great. I just have to remember to stay relaxed,I usually end up too tense trying to keep everything "just right!"

My trainer is very pleased with the result. I thanked her profusely for all the work she and her assistants have put in getting him back to this point.

I have my next lesson tomorrow night and can hardly wait! If all goes well again, my trainer and I will discuss the next step for Murphy and me. WooHoo!!

Duffy
Mar. 13, 2002, 01:17 PM
Yeah, BNH & Murphy! Congrats! So nice to have something to celebrate. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lord Helpus
Mar. 13, 2002, 08:34 PM
I had to change my email because AOL does not have a local number in S Pines and I was running up a huge bill calling long distance. I did not (could not) bring my old address book with me so I do not have your email addy (which is not in your profile. My new email is pammahony@earthlink.net.

[Apologies to others for using the board to post to Merry here......]. But anyone else who wants to emai me is welcome to also /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Merry
Mar. 13, 2002, 10:38 PM
Oh, thanks Lord Helpus! It's about my book, and I needed to ask you something important ASAP. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

... and now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

"Beware of geeks bearing gifts."

DMK
Mar. 14, 2002, 07:03 PM
Wow Pam, I didn't think there was a place on this earth where AOL's tentacles didn't reach...

OK, so the February blues have passed and we are into the Ides of March (70 today, but foggy this AM so apparently many people opted to kill themselves in their cars this morning). But while Ides of March prompt suicide car drivers, they apparently equate to Extreme Wigglies in Baby Greenies... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

After cantering over some little 2 foot specials today I was shocked to see how (relatively speaking) straight the tracks to the fence were, because it sure felt like a Left Bulge! Right Bulge! Left Bulge RIGHT RIGHT NO, CENTER, damnit, LEFT argument all 7 strides out of the corner. This is not to say I am imagining it, but he is playing the "let me overreact to your leg" game better than Russell Crowe plays to the Oscar Committee...

We also had a tack change. RV has a low palate, and I originally tried him in a happy mouth, which he liked a lot more than the plain snaffle his former owner had him in, but it was still too much bit physically in his mouth (I find it humorous that a 17'1 had big ole galumph has such an itty bitty mouth!). I eventually switched over to a loose ring nickel mouth french snaffle and I played around with a Big D Dr. Bristol, but I wasn't happy with either - he just was too busy with that mouthpiece! Well I stopped at a tack store on the south side of town when returning from HITS last weekend, and lo and behold, there it was!!! A BIG D mylar, the mullen mouth type mouthpiece (it's jointed and curved, but it has a big barrel over the joint so it doesn't fold like a snaffle). AND NO LIFTERS!!! I do believe this may have been the bit he was waiting for... So far all has been happiness in our world /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh, and one last little amusing anecdote, that has zippo to do with baby greenies, unless on considers how grateful I was to NOT be on mine when it happened...

I have a 22 year old pony - Rebel (some may remember him from previous tales of escape and deviltry). Since he is terribly itchy and scruffy from blowing 400 pounds of coat AND it was 70 today, I bought him in early and blasted off 100 pounds of hair with the hose. Since it was still a tad cool in the barn I tied him up to a fencepost in the sun and went and tacked up Robbie. I headed up to the ring which is NOT within eyesight of the barn and NOT near all the other turnout paddocks/pastures/horses. Just as I was finishing up my ride, going over a little gymnastic heading away from the barn, Robbie bolts out from under me! Since it happened just as a car drove by, I assumed he was spooking at it, so I grabbed him and put him in a circle. That's when I see REBEL, leadshank and all cantering RIGHT UP TO ME AND ROBBIE!!! He literally looked at me, said "screw you, I AM FREE!!!" and whirled around and took off! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

That evil little pony got himself loose and rather than go hang out with the other horses and eat grass, he chose to run into the ring, stick his little pony tongue out at me and give me the little pony finger (figuratively speaking) and then go do all those things!!

You know, I was laughing too hard to do anything about it... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Merry
Mar. 15, 2002, 08:44 AM
Oh no, DMK! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

You just described:
A) Hammie's mouth
and...
B) a bit I do not yet own
so that probably means...
C) a trip or phone call to the tack store that will lead to...
D) an addition to the Bit Museum!

Alert the authorities now!

"Beware of geeks bearing gifts."

Cinnybren
Mar. 15, 2002, 08:46 AM
Geez, DMK, I just spit coffee on my desk laughing. I can just picture the darling pone! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Ahhh, the joy of having ponies around the barn.

Had another lesson on Murphy last night and it was even better than Wednesday! Yea! He's doing SO much better. This is the part where I, "Thank God, I have a wonderful trainer!" because there is no way I would have been able to get this "fixed" on my own. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BustersMom
Mar. 15, 2002, 09:57 AM
So one thing I have neglected to mention about the reform school grad is that he has a clef palet or something of the sort. Doesn't affect his breathing or anything. It is kind of gross to watch him drink as after about 3 gulps, he pumps water out his nose but you get used to it and it doesn't seem to bother him a bit.
Anyway, you might suspect that we have some interesting bitting issues and the D that DMK described works great. The center portion keeps the joint of the snaffle from poking a very sensitive area in the roof of his mouth and mine has a only a slight curve. No lifters at all and unless you look at it hanging up, it looks like a plain big D. He is as happy as a clam with it.

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group

Bumpkin
Mar. 15, 2002, 10:02 AM
After all the things you have went through with Murphy this past year I am so very happy for you and how things are going!!!

I know what you mean about trainers, mine has been a godsend for Elliot too /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

NinaL aka Chrissy
Mar. 15, 2002, 12:28 PM
The bit that DMK described works great on horses with a low palate. Mylar also makes a version of the bit with the same mouthpiece and a small twist. Worked a treat on Chrissy who was an enthusiastic, forward hunter with a fussy mouth.

I just saw a new Mylar bit very much like the Dee DMK describes except that it also offers tongue relief. It is an eggbutt with a comfort mouthpiece and an arched link where an ordinary french line would normally be placed. Good on a horse with a low palate that cannot tolerate any tongue pressure. No lifters. Works very well with my friend's mare who has a low palate and a fussy mouth.

Nina

"We who choose to surround ourselves with lives even more temporary than our own, live within a fragile circle, easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps, we still would live no other way. We cherish memory as the only certain immortality, never fully understanding the necessary plan."

Irving Townsend.

Hopeful Hunter
Mar. 15, 2002, 01:42 PM
It was a perfect day here today. Warm, bright, slightly breezy....just a perfect day. Which of course meant that my lesson today was......pefect.

Surprise! I so rarely post about these good times that I'm going to break with superstition and do so. Ash was just perfect pony today. He'd been a little strong on Monday -- cool day, he'd had a light weekend and he was just being playful. But Tuesday he was just wonderful -- wasn't gonna ride, did, and he worked through poles and stretched and found some perfect spots for his jumps. My trainer took him Wed for a lesson and he had yesterday off, and I had a lot of work to do. So I didn't see him and I didn't know how it went.

Well my trainer, more a perfectionist than I, called him "excellent" for her. Yippie! And he was just perfect today for me, too. We didn't do a lot -- hacked and jumped just a bit. Did some crossrails to verticals, then set everything up to 2' / 2'3" and did a little work on diagonal/change/outside line stuff. He was so good we were able to pick apart what I'm doing -- which of course led to him being even BETTER. Things like not taking my leg off at the top of the jump -- an improvement from taking it off before the jump, but still not good. When I rode the line with leg on all the time I could feel the quality of the jump improve as he rounded more knowing he wasn't going to be dropped. Amazing how that works [:-)] .

So...I'm very pleased with him. I'd been worrying that maybe it wasn't the best idea to "give him up" to my trainer to show but from what I'm seeing it's a great plan. She's been riding him now a couple of times a week for a few weeks, and he's getting much more confident over fences. And because "I'm" not "responsible" for making him show ready in my mind, I worry less when I do mess up a line or something. Instead of it being "omigawd, what a bad ride! Now he'll be worrying about lines like that!" I just think "oh, that was crap. Better do it again...still crap....ok, that was better, but not great. Have to remember that was a problem so she can work on it." Takes a LOT of mental pressure off -- and of course, with that gone, we're not having as many bad lines or such anymore. Another amazing fact [:-)] .

One interesting bit thing, though. I ride him in a KK dee bit with the oval center link. My trainer rides him in a rubber snaffle. I don't find that he's nearly as responsive or as steady in the rubber as she does -- wonder why? I've had the Myler described -- the Comfort Dee I think it is -- and sold it. On OTTBs it just always seemed too thin for their likes. - Gina

Midge
Mar. 15, 2002, 04:13 PM
I took Midge on her first ride today, after her winter turnout. Wed., I longed, Thurs., I longed and rode her up the driveway and back, then today, just a quick spin to see if she needed to get a buck out and we went on a walk/trot trail ride for about 30 minutes. She was great! She was frisky, but not wild, so hopefully she'll be back in the swing of things soon.

I felt pretty capable, too. My winter lessons seem to have paid off.

****
'If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?'

Bumpkin
Mar. 15, 2002, 04:15 PM
Just wait when you least expect it!!! eeekkk /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

DMK
Mar. 15, 2002, 04:19 PM
Merry, as a charter member of that club, I can sympathize with your plight... or enable it... heh heh heh... (Hey, all the crack addicts have buddies, why shouldn't the bit addicts????)

On page 36 of the latest Dover sale catalogue is the bit in question: Wide barrel D. The pictures are all wrong (all have lifters), but they reference a Wide Barrel D and a Wide Barrel D with lifters, so I think they must have the bit in question.

And yes, I am pretty sure that my older hunter Robbie only goes in a mullen mouth happy mouth bit so yours truly could justify forking out enough money to buy MANY bits so we could get the custom version complete with Big D and no icky rubber on the sides... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Midge
Mar. 15, 2002, 04:26 PM
Thanks for the support, Bumpkin! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

As for your sig line, no, I haven't hugged my trainer today. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

****
'If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?'

JustaLurker
Mar. 15, 2002, 05:37 PM
I don't want to sound silly, but it sure makes my heart sing when reading about so many of the greenies and how wonderful they are being now that the weather is improving.

I guess this makes one think about working so hard over the winter and being frustrated to death rather than turning the horses "out" for R & R, then turning them over to a professional for a bit of a tune up as Spring approaches, if it's deemed the prudent thing to do. Yes, I know many of you don't need that professional touch, but many do.

Peggy
Mar. 15, 2002, 06:12 PM
Guess this qualifies for this topic since it involves March, madness and a baby greenie.

Somehow my trainer managed to convince me to take Star (now under saddle for 3 months) to a dressage show at the end of this month. The plan is to let him hang out at the show for the first few days and then show in one Training Level test on the last day. The show is a sort-of big time show at LAEC, complete with a World Games qualifier. So, I feel sort of like we're enrolling in MIT to take basic arithmetic. We have some occasional steering issues, so hopefully we'll stay in the ring.

Merry
Mar. 15, 2002, 10:42 PM
Thanks, DMK! Hammie was just going to email you and ask the specifics. I mean, for what other reasons do I pay off my credit card balances? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

As for my March madness, it was danged cold today with a slight breeze. I decided not to ride anyone. I gave into the Ides of March. Heck, if Julius Caesar had bad luck today, who am I to question Fate?

"Beware of geeks bearing gifts."

DMK
Mar. 16, 2002, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merry:
Thanks, DMK! Hammie was just going to email you and ask the specifics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The classic sign of addiction in full denial: blaming your bit addiction on your horse... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(I see Beezer chiming in with some sage advice or amusing anecdotes any moment now!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But I am right there with you, babe. Admitting you have a problem means you might be on the road to recovery and what fun would that be???? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

LaurieB
Mar. 16, 2002, 01:33 PM
A greenie type thought here which may have no bearing on your life at all... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sometimes when I take Tess to a show, she's at her best on the last day because she's had time to become accustomed to things, plus she's tired. Other times, she's at her worst on the last day--because she's now gone considerably longer without the turn-out she would have had at home. It might be something to consider when you make your plans for the dressage show. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Peggy
Mar. 16, 2002, 07:19 PM
Actually, LaurieB, I have thought of both scenarios. Great minds think alike.

Am planning to turn out the morning that they leave and hope it doesn't wear out and that he doesn't pull a shoe. As far as tiredness, either he'll be tired and good or tired and cranky. I just got my ride time (now that's efficiency--the show isn't for two weeks) and it's 8:06 so at least I won't have a lot of time to fret that day.

Merry
Mar. 16, 2002, 08:13 PM
... but I get to add, "tired and on sensory overload." You know, where they can't seem to stand still in their stall any longer. Ugh. I don't even want to take them out at that point. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"Beware of geeks bearing gifts."

DMK
Mar. 19, 2002, 04:53 PM
OK, a little encouragement is needed here!

Tell me, oh please tell me that the 2 times that RV worked through the gymnastic today and was quite stellar are the true indicators of his talent... not the 463 other attempts... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Attempts that included such classic hunter styles as heaving his body like a dishrag, rushing through (it was tight and had DMK's patented "pile o'poles" instead of a landing pole so that was quite a trick), a new take on "backing off" which included basically stopping after each element. Trot pole. stop. X. stop. pile o'poles. stop. vertical. stop. But strangely with no attempt to refuse. Just a new approach to fitting it all in... Then of course we latched onto the "let's jump diagonally out of this thing" appraoch, which was pretty inspired, but I countered with a LOT of leg and a drift pole. Finally we had a small moment of brilliance, which almost knocked me out of the tack, which was promptly followed by the dishrag approach (just to make sure I knew that he had "gotten" it just yet).

ilovemygreenieilovemygreenieilovemygreenie...


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Lord Helpus
Mar. 19, 2002, 05:59 PM
Having just moved to zone 3, I discovered that they have just changed the rules as of this year to only allow for one pregreen year. Evidently, some trainers here were counting "one, one and a half, two, two and a half, two and three quarters, two and seven-eighths, and never getting to a horse's third year of showing. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

People got so confused about how long some horses had been around that the zone voted to limit all pregreenies to just one year, since people could pretty much remember which horse had or had not shown the prior year.

Has this happened in other zones?

DMK
Mar. 19, 2002, 06:18 PM
Come to Zone 4 where we let you cross enter in the A/A's and A/O's (on different horses, of course) AND we let pre-greens be pre-green for up to THREE years! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

It sort of depends on age and other things, but they can compete one year at 3'0 and one year at 3'3, and I think if they are young enough they can stay in the 3'0 for 2 years. We love our zone. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

You are in that purist Virginia zone... /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

Chef Jade
Mar. 19, 2002, 06:21 PM
You can show in pre-greens until you 3 foot your horse to the grave. As long as the horse never jumps 3'6" and "breaks" its pre-green status, that is. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Merry
Mar. 19, 2002, 11:37 PM
What chef said.

I must admit, one of my girlfriends showed her mare Ad Am and pre-green for oh, three years. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"Go away, kid, you bother me." - W.C. Fields

BustersMom
Mar. 20, 2002, 08:48 AM
Welcome to Zone 3. Which is complicated by it's proximity to Zone 4. In Zone 3, we have one year of pre green. Once you jump 3' at an A show no matter what the division (Children's, AA, Schooling) or when like at the Duke Show in November, you have broken your green year. Now if you are showing in the NCHJA. They follow Zone 3 rules however there are many of the NCHJA rated shows in Zone 4. Conceivably a "2nd Year Pre Green" can win the End of Year Award for the Pre Green Division in a Zone where only one year of Pre Green is allowed. How's that for introducing confusion?

Member of the Baby Greenie Support Group

wtywmn4
Mar. 20, 2002, 05:38 PM
My god BustersMom thats like the ole joke, "who's on first, what's on second" Does anyone get it right?

And you can do it in our zone, till they rewrite the prize lists. Which most won't due to the increase in the 3' divisions. It's supposed to be 2 yrs and out.

Erin
Mar. 20, 2002, 07:06 PM
Once again... new topic, new thread. No more epic threads that continue ad infinitum.

And yes, I'll keep closing them if y'all keep starting them. Don't waste your breath complaining about it, because I'm not going to listen. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif