Of teens that are pregnant and are equestrians less vulnerable [Archive]

ErinB

Jan. 18, 2002, 09:45 PM

This might at first glance seem like another of my off-topic posts with horsey icing, but it's really not. The question- do you think equestrian girls are less vulnerable to today's society which is so anti-virgin? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I've sort of been sheltered and though I've heard of abortions and birth control and yadda yadda yadda, it never really struck me of how big of a deal it was amongst people my age. However, the more I venture out of the horse world, the more I notice, and the more disturbed I become.
I've been taking a break from riding lately, and I admit, I've stopped reading so much Practical Horseman and picked up a few more issues of Seventeen. At the end of this issue was the prerequisite stupid fictional story that appears in most women's/girl's magazines. This one, however, really got me. (If any of you have the December 2001 issue of Seventeen, you probably know what I'm talking about.)

The title of the story is "Seduce Me", and the caption underneath reads (I kid you not): "Mom's dead, Dad's dating Sylvia. What's to stop me from sleeping with Sylvia's son?" /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Basically the story revolves around this girl whose mom recently died. Her dad lives alone now and has started dating someone else (how emotional). The very first sentence reads, "I nearly had a heart attack when I found my dad's condoms."
Hmmm, lovely indeed.
A few more excerpts from the story I'll provide, and then you tell me whether or not I'm crazy in my thinking that this world is royally screwed.

The girl's best friend, upon being told about the girl's "find" in her father's bathroom, proclaims: "At least your father's getting laid. That's more than we can say for ourselves."

Caption on the next page (in large print): "I tried to forget about [my mom's] death by endlessly dreaming about LOSING MY VIRGINITY (in larger print) to movie-star handsome guys."

I could go on. Basically the story revolves around this girl who has mysteriously gotten over her dead mother and the fact that her dad's sleeping with the woman he's dating and suddenly can think about nothing but having sex with her dad's girlfriend's son whom she just met, and comes thisclose but backs out at the last minute, much to the relief of her moronic best friend who again comments, "Good thing you didn't sleep with him. What if you got pregnant? Then you'd REALLY be related to Sylvia." /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Anyway, that has nothing to do with horses (I'm getting there), but just reassure me- does the world REALLY think like that? People my age... normal people, who don't ride horses and attend a bubble school... is that really all that matters to "normal" people? If so, I'm so happy, for once, to be abnormal.

What really sparked me to start this thread was a post on Chickclick.com's message board entitled, "Is anyone else out there a teen mother?" It got a LOT of responses. My thinking? If you can't spell correctly and still use prefixes like "U R" and haven't yet mastered punctuation, being a MOTHER may be a teensy bit overwhelming. The replies something along the lines of "I had my first daughter at 14 and the second at 17. It was hard to see my boyfriend and do my schoolwork and still have time for my kids, but..." just totally floored me. HOW CAN PEOPLE THINK THIS IS OKAY? /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif People just... don't seem as stunned by this as I'd like. I'm partially posting this to see if anyone else is as shocked as I am, or if I'm the only one left in the world with any values whatsoever.
Yes, it's lovely, the occassional success story of an accidental pregnancy that turns out all right, you marry the child's dad, you finish high school, go to college, have a way to support the child without your parents. But when did the occassional success story become something of the norm?

I'm asking this because it seems that we, as horse people, just seem so much different from the "outside" world. I've honestly never met a horse person who would even consider acting that way. Do you think it's because we have such a responsibility to our horses? Because we're so dedicated to our "real" lives that we have no time to pause and experience being a real teenager?

Or are horse people just smarter? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~Erin B #1
Visit my Website (http://usa.internations.net/pets/mizpig//outlooks1.htm)

ErinB

Jan. 18, 2002, 09:45 PM

brynnabear

Jan. 18, 2002, 09:56 PM

Probably all of that /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I don't plan on having sex until I am married. I am too busy with riding, school, work, HAVING FUN and MY FUTURE. Personally it's not something I would do because of moral

But this is a sensitive topic to me right now because a close friend is 2 months pregnant at 16 /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

*Man On A Mission*
High Caliber
*Sarcee Junction* (RIP)
Zip's Eliminator

serengeti36

Jan. 18, 2002, 11:01 PM

but there's more to this than just the horses. DO NOT LET ME DOWNPLAY THE ROLE OF HORSES. I know that I had a bunch of friends that did a lot of drugs (fortunantly now most of them are out of this habit,but a few have been permanantly sucked in) (and I'm not talking about pot, I'm talking about major drugs)The horses I think play a huge role but also, most people who can ride have adults and parents who heavily influence their lives. If not parents then maybe the trainer, or an older person at the barn... something to keep them on the right track. And usually if a person can afford to ride (even in the least expensive manner it's still money) usually meaning that a parent is involved in the rider's life because very rarely is a parent going to shell out the cash or let their kids earn the money and not at least take the slightest interest (even if only to know where the rider is going) Just a thought...

marion

My treasures do not chink or glitter...They gleam in the sun and neigh in the night." -Bedouin Proverb

TXan TB

Jan. 19, 2002, 01:49 AM

It's 3:30am, so I may not make sense, but here goes...

I'm a social worker for an adoption agency, and I counsel birthmothers in TX, LA, NM, and OK. I include that because I don't want anyone thinking that this person lives by me, so therefore must be so-and-so. Trust me, you don't know this person.

I had a client in the past two years that was a hunter rider on the A circuit. Her parents told her that if she placed the baby for adoption they would buy back her horses that were sold when she went to college. She decided to parent, and is doing a wonderful job of making the best of things.

But riders are not immune to the pressures of every other teen. HOWEVER-I think that riders (and anyone else involved in sports) have a better sense of self esteem that will carry them past more temptations...every once in a while someone will get sucked in.

Moral of my story? Don't make a decision that will change your entire life in an instant, as well as one that will create another life you are responsible for!

(I just reread this, and hope it makes sense! Sorry if it doesn't-hope you get the basic idea of what I'm trying to convey)

Jan. 19, 2002, 06:57 AM

If you are asking if horse people are any less susceptible (I don't know if that is spelled right) to the evils of the "normal" world, no. I think riding can "save" a lot of people (kept me out of trouble), but I gave up thinking that horses could do that for everybody the day I had to take one of the kids I rode with to Planned Parenthood.

Halo Effect

Jan. 19, 2002, 07:10 AM

None of them ride!! I, for some reason, believe that we maybe don't have as much time on our hands!! And possibly it's that we deal with risk every day, and risking getting pregnant as a younger person is not something that we wanna do!! I really don't know what I'm saying!

Catherine the former *bennet&bailey*
~Unapproved Princess Clique~
The perfect hunt horse should" 'Ave the 'ead of a duchess an the arse of a cook"
Ridin Horses is what I love, that's why my Bailey is from heaven above!!

SLW

Jan. 19, 2002, 07:15 AM

ErinB- bravo to you for having your head on straight. It doesn't matter what background a person comes from- wealthy or welfare, black, white or indian- or what their sport is- horses, biking, tennis- it is what YOU the person chooses to do in the "here and now" that separates the teenage moms from the teenagers. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The teenage mom gave into impulses and created a new set of problems to deal with. You and I are repsonsible for our own behavior. Dump the Seventeen magazine in the trash and don't spend any more of your money on it. Why contribute to the salary and 401K plans of adults who work for a magazine which emphasizes "boobs, skinny bodies and suggestive clothes" on young women? The magazine "YM" is simply not allowed in my house. One daughter had a subscription to it and as I read the "Q and A" section one afternoon I was astounded at the details YM provided to improve certain aspects of dating- and the information offered had nothing to do w/ the young man holding open doors for his date. You, and the other young ladies on this message board, are our next generation of mothers, riding instructors and trainers- place GREAT value on yourself and don't be misled by the "status quo".

A best friend's daughter became a mother last year at the age of 17. Her child was in the Honor Society, did school plays, rode horses for fun. Now, she is married, finishing H.S. and the young couple plan to attend college next fall. They are on a shoestring budget, welfare, WIC and medicaid. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif No glamor there at all and no editor from Seventeen is knocking on their door wanting to do a feature on them. They could overcome the odds and succeed with their dreams of college and a better life "down the road" but it will depend on what they do in the "here and now".

SLW
"It is I."

Merry

Jan. 19, 2002, 07:24 AM

Gosh, ErinB, so many of your posts make me want to have you as my adoptive daughter! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I can only speak for myself and my experiences. Horses kept me out of serious trouble because when I was young (decades ago) there was a lot of temptation. But I was too busy, too involved with showing, mucking stalls, etc. Horses were my entire focus. Yet I think the same could be said for any structured activity that provides a place for young people to gain self-respect and a sense of personal accomplishment.

Then, too, is the environment. The lady trainer my sister and I had as teens was Russian, and ran her barn like a military boot camp, I kid you not!

"Friends don't let friends eat fish tacos."

CoolRunnings

Jan. 19, 2002, 07:41 AM

First off I want to say even though I have never met you, from seeing your posts such as this, I respect you a great deal. Im only 13 and a lot of things have been dawning on me lately, and it's extrememly comforting to me that there's people like you in the world. So it must be really true that the COOL PEOPLE aren't the ones who are smoking and having sex.
I think riding has made me a lot more confident in many ways, but it also has provided me with something I can always do instead of going out there and smoking, etc... I don't think that riding makes you totally immune to that sort of stuff, but I think it helps.
But I most definantly, if offered anything of that sort will now think of you and say to myself, "Don't you wanna grow up like that?"
Great topic! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

**Mary**
~All that is gold does not glitter

Jan. 19, 2002, 07:53 AM

Let's just say riding thru high school kept me out of all that partying and other stuff in high school.

Let me just say that in college I don't have horses so I have had more time on my hands to go party.

But...I think horses have given me a sense of self-respect I wouldn't have otherwise and that I want to wait till my wedding day /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also another thing riding has given me is learn from others mistakes (can we say group lessons-LOL) a friend of mine who was 19 last year--freshman in college got pregnant, but has VERY supportive family, moved back to the same town as her family, married the guy, and had her baby just about 2 weeks ago--saw pics online and the baby is adorable! For her it was the right time, but for me it sure isn't yet /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I've got a lot of life before me and I plan to use up my freedom /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

**Elizabeth***
Disgruntled College Students Clique ROCKS!!!!!
Proud Bubblehead for 8 years
"Who can say when your heart sighs, only time" --Enya

daytimedrama

Jan. 19, 2002, 07:55 AM

In My Opinion there are at least two types of teenage horse owners, these are stereotypes. The type who are horse crazy, do not care about going to twelve parties a weekend for the sole puropose of necking and drinking. With these types, the horses have kept them out of trouble, either because they have priorities or are just to busy(need to go to sleep early to wake up at 5:00). But there are other types of horse owners, the types that this board has discussed in detail, the unsupervised circuit riders.(Remember stereotyping here!) In those cases the horses do not help to keep them out of trouble.

Going to an all girls school you hear A LOT!!! When comparing myself to a lot of the girls in my school, I can say, I'm not going to parties everyweekend. I'm not doing drugs, I'm not lying to my parents. WHo knows if it has to do with the horses, If horses weren't in my life would I be as level-headed? I like to think that horses have kept me out of trouble, (it is one way for my parents to embrace the expense). /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and I'm happy that I'm not like some the other girls in my school, because one lapse in judgement could change one's life (i.e. car crash, pregnant, overdose).

~Christina~
"I don't patronize bunny rabbits!" -Heathers
*Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool.*

ClemsonGraduateRider

Jan. 19, 2002, 08:08 AM

have a different take on this. While I do think that Riding is a great way to stay out of trouble because it can consume so much of your time, I also know that it is not always enough. When I was in high school I was riding consistently and showing a pretty good amount at the local level. I was however a "typical" (un-horsey apparently!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) teenager. I partied, I experimented and I did a lot of things that could have gotten me into a lot of trouble either with the law or my parents. I also did a lot of things that I am not proud of and am very lucky that I did not physically harm myself.

So what I think it boils down to is the person themselves. Regardless of what they do a person must have the intelligence, self-esteem, and courage at a young age to realize that they have to take responsibility for their actions. While I was also an Honor Roll student, participated in after school sports and riding, I still managed to find the time to party and be mischevious. So while I'm sure that sports are a good deterent to drugs, alcohol, sex for some people its not enough.

I too had a friend who at 17 had a child. She struggled for a bit but now she is very successful. She has a good job, owns her own house and her son is doing very well. She was a person who did take responsibility for her actions and while she learned the hard way I think she has matured into a really wonderful, responsible person and having a child made her that way.

So I guess my point is although for some people sports are a good way to stay out of trouble, for some people it is not enough. And those people (me as a teen) were going to do whatever they wanted regardless of whether they had less free time or participated in a sport.

UNCeventer

Jan. 19, 2002, 08:32 AM

For me, horses have kept me out of trouble. My horses have been better than friends sometimes and definately better than any high school boy!! LOL. In high school, I never went to parties because I had to take care of my horse in the morning, or teach a lesson, or go to a show.

I also know that I respect myself and have a higher self esteem (especially when I am on a horse). I was talking to a lady at my barn about this and she told me that she recently read a book about young women and sports. She said that meny young women who are involved in some kind of sport value themselves more for who they are, than what they look like (ie. value themselves less because they dont have big boobs.) I got into a very long conversation with her about this because I totally agree with this. I have friends at school that were into feild hockey (made it into the all american team thing), singing and drama (huge part in the school play), and art and soccer--- and of course me and my riding. All of us had a great sense of values and a good idea of what was "right and wrong" according to society. One of our friends though, didnt have something to really dedicate herself to. She always read seventeen, ym, and all the rest of those magazines-- and yes she slept around. I am not saying that she slept around because she read the magazines, but she valued herself on how she looked...she complained that her boobs werent big enough (they were much bigger than mine- and I dont complain about the size of mine..personally for me, it doesnt matter.) It seemed to her that she couldnt be accepted or liked by guys because she didnt have big enough boobs, a skinnier body, etc, etc.

I hope some of this made sense. Erin, I am totally with you on this! Horses have definately kept me out of trouble and I thank my parents for letting me bring my horse to school. I dont know what I would do without him as a "release" from the pressures of life, and my best friend that never judges.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Die hard member of the JESSE fan club!! :-)
Member of the Disgruntled College Student Clique

showrider

Jan. 19, 2002, 08:54 AM

I give you a ton of credit. Personally I had it hard when I was on the Circuit, 16 years ago. Between school, working, the barn, friends, and botfirends, I am amazed I did all that. Being a teen you want to have it all and think you can. There nothing wrong with that. There are those out there that will try to pull stuff on you, Pressuring you. The old,"if you love....." line. Or, "if you don't then it over". My fav is,"what are you waiting for. It's no big deal". I have a good one for you, 99% of the women out ther that have, I'll bet you remember your first. Now, What percentage of Men do you think remember?

Anyway, No matter what ANYONE says, there is NOTHING wrong with waiting. If you are ever pressured ask yourself not what you are WAITING for, but what are you RUSHING to. If someone asks you "why not" ask them right back "why". There are tons of ways to express your love. Wait. Here's a good thought. You love your horse, dog, parents, ect... Right. Do you have sex with them? No. So there you go. There ARE other ways to show your love. Be true to yourself FIRST!!!!

When things are not going your way, hold on. Your luck WILL change sooner or later. If we can live through Cancer and come out NEGATIVE at the end, there always a chance.
Peace-out :}

fleur

Jan. 19, 2002, 09:16 AM

...I personally think that as long as you are smart and safe, the "outside" world is really not as dangerous as it seems. I ride, but I am also social. The difference between me and the hard partiers is that I am influenced only by myself, and I know the dangers and risks of EVERYTHING I do. By knowing them, I can prevent them. If you are asking whether or not some riders are sheltered, then yes they are, but it's not just riders, and it's not just non-riders who do stupid things like not use birth control.

*EMMA*
http://emmapony.diaryland.com

The Fjord Jockey

Jan. 19, 2002, 09:46 AM

Whoa! Okay, so sure, men are piggies, and yes, many do tend to put pressure on some of their girlfriends, but lets not forget that alot of girls out there ARE asking for it...have you seen what some of these teenage girls wear? Tube tops, halter tops, globs of make-up and the tightest pants possible. They arent exactly giving the most innocent impressions. So, just dont make it sound like its always the guys who are in the wrong. And dont even get me started on the parents.

*J*
The Fjord Jockey

serengeti36

Jan. 19, 2002, 09:51 AM

I didn't do such a hot job last night. What I need to explain here is that yes, the horses have made a huge impact on me. The time when I could have gotten in to the most trouble, my horse was sick and lived at my farm, I had to be up by quarter to five to feed adn then drive an hour to school, then be back by four to feed again, and i was not driving and hour back into town for a party that I would have to be able to drive back an hour for... So yes that kept me out of trouble. But I also learned from others' mistakes as well. I had friends in drugs at school, one got busted by NYPD while visiting another of her friends. Granted this didn't hurt her too badly but my parents would have sold the horses then and there. Then I had friends who rode who didn't follow the best lifestyles. They are fine, they will be fine, but they had to go through stuff that I would rather not and that my parents would kill me for. I made mistakes, everyone does, i just lucked out that I was careful enough. The horses were just an added reason to keep it in the middle of the road.

marion

My treasures do not chink or glitter...They gleam in the sun and neigh in the night." -Bedouin Proverb

Natalie

Jan. 19, 2002, 10:12 AM

while riding may definitely help keep teens out of trouble, the same can be said for lots of different extra-curricular activities.

ErinB, I read that story in the Dec. issue of Seventeen. And it didn't exactly shock me, but I was surprised that a magazine that is generally good at sending across a responsible message included this kind of story.

It's true that sex is a big issue for teen girls, probably much more so than drugs. But honestly, I think more girls think and talk about it than actually do it. And while it's true that guys have their minds in the gutter a whole lot more than girls, they don't all try and pressure their girlfriends into sex. IMHO, a guy who would put that kind of pressure on you is not worth your time anyway. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

As for waiting, I agree with that to some degree. I'd like to wait til I'm married, and I know I'll definitely wait until I'm out of high school. I don't believe that teens are emotionally ready to handle those kinds of serious relationships anyway, no matter what they may think.

And back to the riding issue; I don't believe that riding makes girls less vulnerable to society's pressures, but I also don't believe society is very anti-virgin. It will keep you busy and away from the drinking and partying that's so common in high school. But real life will hit you some day......as a responsible person, however, it's up to you to handle those pressures in a way that's right for you. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Natalie
"Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow."

boogerloogie

Jan. 19, 2002, 10:34 AM

no thanks. smaller the better. think sitting trot. Someone at a show i was at once made a comment about someone's chest who was doing a sitting trot with no jacket on and likened it to two cats fighting in a plastic bag.

Don't get me started on the whole sex issue. I don't have time to respond right now. Just wanted to make that comment about large chests. Mine are big enough to be annoying at a 32B. And I'm 5'10. But i wish they were a 32A:)

*Member of the severely disgruntled college clique*

"Some mistakes are too fun to only make once"

NRB

Jan. 19, 2002, 10:58 AM

Any type of activity that takes up large ammounts of time, like horses, are bound to keep your attention off of other things like drugs etc. And so are a good and positive influence on teenagers, also the whole self image thing that soemone else mentioned.

second chance

Jan. 19, 2002, 11:50 AM

WOW, ErinB!

I would have to say Horses is my Anti-Drug. I know so many people these days in High School who get caught for doing disgusting things under the stairs(let you imagination wander if you would like, you name it, it's been done! DISGUSTING!) There is a time and a place for those things.

We had a kid who dropped out of her Senior year due to being pregnant.

My saying is, You were man/woman enough to do it, then you have to be Man/woman enough to take care of what you did.

I know a sophomore who got pregnant by a Senior, she had an abortion...she made huge deal about being pregnant, you did it, its a personal issue not a public issue.

I can gladly say, I have NEVER done drugs, I have NEVER had sex... I will NEVER have sex until I am responsible enough and have enough money to support the kid and support myself.

My personal opinion, I think activities which consume tons of time will not allow you to do stuff on the side, well, if you dedicated...

It just takes one bad decision and you are overwhelmed with other decisions that will change your life.

Besides that, I have a young kid who looks up to me, I can't let that down, I can't betray the little kid and say, oh, hey, ya, I did drugs... To me, that is stupid...

Oh okay, enough of the bad punctuation, before I get flamed... as I do use the .... way to often.

I will step down and let the regular posting continue.

Second Chance, AKA Nellie

Tosca

Jan. 19, 2002, 02:09 PM

This is a Story of Four Horse Crazy Girls:

They were inseparable. Riding almost every single day, sometimes two or three times if someone else wanted them to ride their horses. They all had nice little horses who were competitive in shows, and they showed quite a bit, but they also did a ton of other stuff like trail riding and gymkhana and barrel racing and just having fun with their horses. In the summer, they practically lived at the one girl's house where they kept their horses. They evented in Montana, did some small jumper stuff at Spruce, did some dressage shows near Calgary. They all decided they would be top Olympic show jumpers.

Grade nine roles around. One girl starts doing a lot of drugs, hanging out with grade twelve boys, staying out all night at parties. She loses interest in horses, eventaully selling her horse after she (barely) graduates and moves in with her boyfriend.

Another girl sells her fantastic horse and buys a project greenie. Starts partying a lot, but still rides. Becomes sexually active at the age of 14, yaddy yadda....Loses interest in her horse who isn't "as much fun" as her other guy she sold. Tries to buy him back. Drifts in and out of horses for the next few years, getting really into in sometimes and going in clinics and shows, and neglecting her horse the rest of the time. Graduates, moves in with her boyfriend, still rides occasionally, still has illusions (delusions> ) about the Olympics.

The third girl moves to her dad's an hour away. Starts riding a lot at a stable, seems really keen, then gets a boyfriend when she's 15. Does badly in school, drops out, moves in with her boyfriend, still pleasure rides very now and then. At the age of 17, she moves back home with her mom, graduates and is planning to go to college ( riding quite a bit again.) Then she moves in with her boyfriend again for the summer, and becomes pregnant. Just gave birth to a baby girl over Christmas.

I was the fourth girl. Those were, and still sort of are, my friends. I'm the only one who is still serious about riding, or who went to University. But I partied quite a bit in high school too, and had some boyfriends...it just didn't wreck my focus. What am I trying to say? That sex ruins lives? No, it doesn't but I think you have to be individually ready for it and the consequences it may have. I don't know if horses really "keep people straight." It depends on the person. We were all super horse crazy, and look how things turned out. It's kind of sad somehow. Sometimes I wish we could all ride together again.

Tootsie

Jan. 19, 2002, 02:12 PM

I do feel as if my horse has kept me out of a lot of trouble, even if I am not the most social person to begin with.

Up until last year in high school, I was rather naive. I believed that most kids were like me, who did not smoke or drink or party. I figured they did some, but not that much. One day I was proved very wrong and it really shocked me. I figured I had been living in a hole with my horse for the past four years and had never really looked at my peers around me. At that point I felt rather alone in the world of teens.

In college however, I have meet a great group of people who are exactly like me. Instead of horses, two of my friends are involved in dance. We have the same thoughts about drinking and smoking, and it is wonderful to find others like me. It works out well because they are dancing all the time, and I spend most of my time at the barn, and we can hang out on nights and weekends.

I cannot speak for others, but horses have kept me away from life as a normal teenager. They are kept me away from the parties and other things I dislike, but horses have also, to an extent, alianated me from my peers. I dont mind that much however, because I know that they have given me even more in return, a sence of self worth.

"The Assyrian program of exterminating various ethnic groups generally failed to promote cultural diversity."-- Non Campus Mentis

crave2event

Jan. 19, 2002, 02:43 PM

I've always said that I won't become sexually active until I feel I can deal with the consequences. And at 15, going on 16, I'm not ready to deal with the concequences.

For me, I don't go out to many parties, because I've alienated myself for that crowd, we are still friends, they just know I have to get up in the morning to feed, and I'm not going to party.

Horses have taught me resonsiblity, and I know how much it takes to take care of a horse, I couldn't imangen taking care of a baby. Not to mention other things that can happen from sex.

I also don't think drugs and horses mix.

I drank at new years. But, got up the next morning and fed my horse. Decided then and there I wasn't going to drink again for a long time. To many other things that mean more then getting loaded. To many mistakes could be made, and I can't afford that at my age.

Andrea

Save A Horse, Ride A cowboy

Box-of-Rox

Jan. 19, 2002, 03:27 PM

you've got to be kidding me. If you balance school and horses, yes. If you approach riding from a certain (normal) way, yes. But I would strongly suggest the riding does not shelter kids from the evils of being kids.

I HAVE been sheltered! at away shows (and in florida too) I stay with our barn manager because my parents don't want me to deal with the stuff that goes on at shows, and at home I basically don't ride; I just stay at home and study. But this hasn't stopped me from getting in trouble or being negatively influenced.

What happens (and why this happens) at schools is that kids are thrown into an environment that is conducive to peer pressure (which I would say was invented by those who use it as an excuse, but we'll not get into that) and more specifically, access. I mean, in Art History class (one of the harder courses w/ a tremendous workload and the expectation that you'll get a 5 so, no, not a slacker course TYVM lol) just last week I was asked if i knew the number of a dealer that would meet a kid on 81st and 5th (NYers will think this is funny). The kid thought I knew this because I live near there--there's no clandestine "do you think she does drugs", there's just the assumption that everyone does to some extent. Drugs at my school aren't secretive, bad things; they're stress releivers! Other schools have drug problems because they don't give a lot of work, as well!

Riding is similar. Why? I think that whenever you put a kid into an incredibly stressful or incredibly lax environment they gravitate twords iniquitous activities. There is a community that becomes tight-knit and comfortable with each other, and then that community goes through a phase almost as one, so instead of having one rebellious teenager who can often be stopped by being put in an adult situation (caring for one's sick horse, for example), there is a whole circuit that is going through a "phase".

I think it's a little naive to say "well, we've given these kids an "anti-drug", so they'll be just fine! two thumbs up!" because that's not how the world works. Unfortuanately, riding for a lot of people does not center around the horses. Some people love the scene, others have made more friends on the circuit than they have in "real life", and for others, and I might fit into this category, it just ISN'T real life, and its not always a bad thing to be delusional for three days. I love my horses because they don't judge me, and the real world is all about being judged.

I don't think that riding in anyway shields kids from the reprobate activities that they would encounter at high school-- after all, at an exhibitors party you'll probably get alchol if you just ask, whereas at a school party you have to a) steal gin from your parents (and if you have my parents they'll KNOW some's missing) b) sneak it into a sprite/evian bottle, c) take sprite/evian bottle to party and yes, that does look funny, and d) hope that you stole enough to get trashed because, hey, that's the point! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I think it exposes kids to a different set of bad things. I mean, a 17 year old girl is likely to sleep with a 17 or 18 year old boy after a school dance. A 17 year old girl is more likely to sleep with an older person at a horse show, and that older person is more likely to use condoms or be more discreet. Also, just like high school there's tons and tons of fun, juicy gossip, but unlike high school people are less likely to brag about it themsleves, especially if that person got a 1st year horse for the jr hunters out of it /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif j/k (but not really).

Also, my school is similar to the show world in that most, MOST of the people have the means and access to drugs, cigarettes, and alchol. It's no skin of someone's back to drop 90$ for a "perscription", smoke 4 packs a week, or buy a bottle of vodka (or more specifically the 100$ fake id). I HAVE been sheltered because I'm never really alone at shows, there are many, many people who take their job of acting in loco parentis QUITE seriously (which is great because I love them like parents, but it's not like I'm not being watched or guarded all the time) but there are also people who are so similar to me that they might as well BE me, specifically four that i can think of, that have had just a smidge less guarding (the difference of staying alone in a hotel room or not) that have had very different experiences.

I just think that to say that a diversion is all that kids need is a little to want an "easy" answer, one that obliterates a lot of other factors and manipulates a situation to make it loo better than it is, so just think about what goes along with riding...

dumb as a box of rocks, but w/ REALLY nice horses....

more_pace!

Jan. 19, 2002, 03:54 PM

erin b what a topic!! i to believe those magazines are for the trash.

im 18(19 in march!). last year of highschool and have horses and other animals (goats). anyone tried cleaning 15 stalls when they are hungover badly???? agrhhhhh. scoop scoop puke. i think that says it all. (this was new years,...im not a regular drinker)

i ride, i compete, i work, i am an A student, and i have a social life. NOT the social life that is drinking, drugs and sex, but a social life that is fun and relatively safe. have i done some stupid things? yes. have i learned from them? YES!! will i do it again? NO. do i have bad parents? NO.

my parents know that kids need a sense of freedom and that i have to take responsibilty for myself. it is my fault if it takes me 7 hours to clean the barn intsead of five! my parents still expect very very high standards but they will let me find my own way of getting there. i have a friend whos parents are so overwhelmingly protective of her that whenever she gets the chance to go out she does, what does she do when she gets out? drinks alot and does stupid things.

horses keep you out of trouble to an extent but it is the person that ultimatley chooses their path. Tosca, well put! (mind you living out in the middle of NOWHERE helps with the safety issues,as well everyone knows everyone!)

sure i have gotten the cold shoulder from my friends before. they question why i cant be out late on a friday (when i have to be up for a show on sat.) but they live with it and move on. they would not be my friends if they couldn't understand the importance of my horsies!

as well, (this is getting quite long!) in my experience, a horse person cannot have a non horse person boyfreind and make it work!! on my list of priorities the boyfriend was after horse, shows and work (because the work supported my horsie!!) and well,.. they never can understand!!

elizabeth

Jan. 19, 2002, 03:57 PM

Ahhhh, ErinB, I am also a member of your fan club. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My answer to your question: I worked for much of my riding as a child, and horses were a HUGE, time-consuming, money-consuming priority for me, so, yes, they kept me away from many of the world's negative influences. I just didn't have the time to party, and I did not WANT to party if I had to get up at 4:30 a.m. on a Sunday to get to the barn to turn-out horses that had to be on the truck to the horse show by 6 a.m. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Moreover, when I was interviewing for teaching positions, one law school dean said his daughter rode. And he said he LOVED the fact that his daughter rode b/c it "kept her out of trouble." (His words.)

slainte!

Jan. 19, 2002, 04:52 PM

i think we have the same parents!

i'm going to be 20 this spring, and i am in my 2nd year of college. in high school all i did was ride, while the rest of my close friends did sports. (field hockey, soccer, basketball). all those girls go to college now and have their heads on pretty straight. we all had a hobby, something to keep us focused, and goals to work towards.

i myself went thru a rough time senior year of high school. i dated a complete idiot who almost ruined my life. (left me for my best friend who i RODE with.... i guess horses gave her no sence of values... ahem, anyway!) i did stupid things, more than i would like to admit. but i didn't get pregnant, or thrown into rehab, and i actually got into college.

the summer before i left for college i had a life changing experience within 5 minutes. after fighting with the ex, i drove to the barn crying my eyes out. i got there and hopped on my horse and rode for a solid hour. there were a lot of people around the barn that day. after cooling out my horse a 9 year old girl came up to me with her mother.... her mom said "go ahead honey, tell her what you wanted to say"...... the little girl looked up at me and said:

"when i grow up, i want to be you, and ride like you, and be as nice as you"

when i realized i was someone's role model, my whole world seemed to develop a meaning.

-Liz
*Member of the Disgruntled College Student Clique!*
~proud 20 yr old bubble head~
woo hoo IHSA!

daytimedrama

Jan. 19, 2002, 04:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by green_lizzie:
the summer before i left for college i had a life changing experience within 5 minutes. after fighting with the ex, i drove to the barn crying my eyes out. i got there and hopped on my horse and rode for a solid hour. there were a lot of people around the barn that day. after cooling out my horse a 9 year old girl came up to me with her mother.... her mom said "go ahead honey, tell her what you wanted to say"...... the little girl looked up at me and said:

_"when i grow up, i want to be you, and ride like you, and be as nice as you"_

when i realized i was someone's role model, my whole world seemed to develop a meaning.

-Liz
*Member of the Disgruntled College Student Clique!*
~proud 20 yr old bubble head~
woo hoo IHSA!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what a great compliment!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Christina~
"I don't patronize bunny rabbits!" -Heathers
*Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool.*

Weatherford

Jan. 19, 2002, 06:34 PM

Ah, good topic, ErinB.

And those magazines continue to forget the "other" possible (highly probable these days) result of "unsafe sex" - STD's. That is the over 29 DIFFERENT Sexually Transmitted Diseases that are commonly found today. Most of which are incurable. Most of which are also indicated in other problems such as infertility, uterine, and cervical cancers.

Most of which are unnoticeable - especially by men.

And, of course, there is also AIDS - which (as of last year) is rising faster in the US heterosexual population than the homosexual population. (It is wiping out parts of Africa, too... /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif )

I think horses demand a certain amount of responsibility which generally holds over into our personal lives.

That is a good thing! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ErinB

Jan. 19, 2002, 06:39 PM

But perhaps that being so involved in something beneficial is what prevents many teenagers from getting involved in things detrimental.

I mean, sure, many people have hobbies, like skating or basketball, but very few people understand the responsibility and all-consuming passion that comes when you're truly dedicated to horses (my mother sure didn't when she signed me up for riding lessons /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

I realize that the horse show world is hardly immune. However, tying into the theory of riding as a passion rather than a sport is that many kids on the "A" circuit (don't flame me) are a bit different than, say, local pony club kids, in that they aren't always made totally responsible for their horses. Whereas to some riders, having a horse is like having a child, thus forcing them to assume responsibility much earlier than most teenagers.

Hey, I could be right, could be wrong. But it is something I've noticed.

Thanks for the nice comments. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Erin B #1
Visit my Website (http://usa.internations.net/pets/mizpig//outlooks1.htm)

KarmicGal

Jan. 19, 2002, 07:11 PM

I think this is a really, really, good, interesting and thought provoking topic. There's been a lot of excellent points made, and now I'm going to throw my ramblings in.

When I was in Gr. 8 I was having the greatest year, I didn't really like my class and I felt rather left out of things, unlike the year before. So one Friday night when my parents were gone and my older brother had friends over I was shocked when I ended up hanging out with them. Before I always got the impression that I was just the annoying little sister but that night it was like they wanted me there, I was part of their jokes, we liked a lot of the same music (don't ask, I still think they're the only 17 y.o guys on earth that like boy bands /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) I was laughing at their jokes, hell i was MAKING jokes that others were laughing at. So i started hangingout with them more and more, my brother would joke that "they were more my friends than his sometimes", one of my best school friends was always over and she was the same. I thought I was having a blast, like it was the best thing ever. I felt so cool, so popular, like I was unstoppable. WHo wants to be at Gr. 8 parties when you could be at parties with Gr. 11 and 12's?!?!? Things didn't last, eventually I screwed up, I think God that it was NOT in a sexual way, that would have made things much, much WORSE.

And thats when it hit me, all the lying I had to do to keep things from my parents, my conscious eating away at me because of it, how horrible I felt when what I did hurt them, and the fact that my brother wasn't encouraging me, I think he was scared that I was turning into one of those skanks that his friends seem to love. Luckily I wasn't, although I was pressured to at times I never slept with anyone, I *knew* that was wrong.

I also knew I had to stop, and I did. Perhaps it was easier because I was out at camp for two months, w/o any of my brother and his crowd their, mainly just me, my mom, our dogs and our horses. That was so HEALING for me.

It's a good thing too because after that summer I was going into Gr. 9, and then you have TONS more opportunities, but I didn't take them. In a way I was thankful for those past months where I put myself through hell because now I had "been there, done that" and didn't need to experiment as much as others, and it IS safer when you brothers in the next room.

Now a year or two later, it's amazing to see the change in some people when I started highschool. At the end of Gr. 9 I had a classmate who got pregnant, AT 15. A month later she got an abortion. One of my closest friends is a complete pot head, for awhile she was getting stoned at LEAST once a day, and she was never going to class. But I never let her pressure me into doing that, she was cool with that and never tried. We hung out because we had fun together, but NOT by getting ourselves stoned out of our minds from pot, oil, hash, E, etc like she did with some of her other friends.

My best friend from partying in Gr. 8 has had beyfriends and "skank" friends constantly. She's cheated on boyfriends, broken up with them because they wouldn't give her enough action (!!!!!!) and slept with so many I've lost count. We don't hang out as much anymore, it's not that we're mad, we just have different friends, different interests.

Right now I have a few close friends out know me, and accept me for who I am, and we don't need to get smashed to have fun. Don't get me wrong, I drink, just not excessively and not very often.

Horses were so KEY in making the change to who I am now. They motivate me, they inspire me, they challenge me. They keep on the right track, I know where I want to go with them and I know that getting stoned, drunk and sleeping around won't help me get there.

When everyone else is talking on the phone to guys or even just girls for hours on end, I'm with my horse. When they're getting stoned after school I'm doing my homework so I can have time to go see my horse later. I'm an A student and I love my horses more than anything. Those are so important to me. I still do stuff with friends, mainly on weekends, we hang out, go to movies, rent movies etc. But they understand when I need to go see my horse. I think if I didn't have my horse to CONSUME me than I would have much more time on my hands and I probably would get into trouble.

So other sports can certainly be an anti-drug, but only if you really care about them. If you don't love horses complete, if they are more of a sideline activity then they aren't going to help you. Character, confidence,identity, and self respect are more helpful than ANYTHING else, horses give me that, others can achieve it without horses, more power to them! And people who are only into horses for the social aspect (ie their friends do it) aren't going to get those benefits out of it.

But this is getting WAAY too long,

Enough rambling for me,

KG

Spider

Jan. 19, 2002, 07:42 PM

I think that because horses are a big responsibility. While some people (not me) may look at it only as an extra curricular activity, they require more attention than a tennis racket. I also think that because riding is more exclusive than other sports it may keep riders in a smaller circle that has more adults in it.
At the same time, there are a lot of drugs, and sex and everything else that goes on in the rest of the "regular" world. I think it's just kept quiet.
I think it's wonderful that horses have had such a positive influence on so many people as they have had on me.

michigan

Jan. 19, 2002, 08:14 PM

Very well said , Erin ! Exactly how i would put it , if i could write as well as you . Stuff like this really annoys me , trust me , you're not alone . [ I'm 16 jfyi ]

Horse people have more responsibility , and even if they don't , they just don't have enough time to get pregnent!

[ but don't worry , horses first and boyfriends after ]:
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif A very happy Claire who might have just found herself a boyfriend /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Blue Devil

Jan. 19, 2002, 10:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by S.C.:
just last week I was asked if i knew the number of a dealer that would meet a kid on 81st and 5th (NYers will think this is funny). The kid thought I knew this because I live near there--<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only slightly off-topic, S.C. I find that quite humorous b/c 2 summers ago (2000-I had just finished my soph. year in hs) I took a course at Columbia and stayed there for the summer by myself. One of my classmates (who lived there in Manhattan on the Upper East Side) and I were walking down the block one day after class to go get something to eat. She (well-liked, nice classmate) pulls out her cell phone, tells me, "Hold on a sec, I have to call my dealer and have him meet us in Riverside Park because I really need some stuff right now..." Well the experience just got more interesting from there, but your comment reminded me about that!

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

Blue Devil

Jan. 19, 2002, 10:58 PM

I think whether teens stay away from sex or drugs/alcohol is not really related to horse back riding, but rather parenting.

I know everyone is going to bash me for this comment, and claim that "well I know of So-And-So and she lies to her mom and gets away with ________ and her mom is a good parent..." However I have seen it- time and time again-that for the most part teens whose parents are actively involved in their supervision (not necessarily following them around--but who have let their teen know what they will and will not allow) and who condone inappropriate behavior are far less likely to participate in it.

Of course some situations happen despite the best parenting, and I am fully aware of that, but generally the biggest drug addicts I know of (and I go to a small private school-80 in my grade-where I know of at least 10 people physically addicted to a "heavy" drug like coke or heroin) have parents who would like to think are involved in their teen's life but truly aren't.

My parents ARE involved in my life but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm innocent, naive, or in the very least, guilt-free of typical teen behaviors. It just means that I know that my parents will not tolerate me coming home drunk (and believe me, I know of lots of people whose parents simply ignore the fact that their teen comes home completely drunk--or even worse, high), that they will sell my horses if they find out I'm into drugs, and that they have the right to know where I am at all times. This doesn't mean that they do always know--it just means that if they call my cell and ask me where I am, that I better tell them!

In a relationship like this, my parents and I have trust. I go to horse shows and stay with another junior rider and I have been going sans parents since I was around 12 or 13. My parents can go out of the country and leave me at home with our housekeeper. Etc. Etc.

Of course there are always multiple exceptions to the "rule" and I am sure of many to my thoughts. But on the whole, these are just observations I have made growing up. If anything, showing on the horse circuit might make a teen have more access to drugs or sex, but for sure alcohol. There's not a trainer I know of that doesn't have a cooler of liquor/beer in their tack room or on the back of their golf cart..... /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Well maybe some don't, but all the barns I am familiar with do!

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

crave2event

Jan. 20, 2002, 05:49 AM

I agree tottally with the parents.

I could not have asked for a better mom, she gave me enough freedom that I didn't want to rebel, and let me make my own decisions. But she raised me that if I disappointed her, I would know it, and I don't want to disappoint her.

At a kid who took a drag off a cigarette in gr.4, I could have gone the other way very easily. I was very appresionable. And then, something happened. I met a friend, and got more seriously into horses then I had ever been. My eyes were opened up, and I realized my horse would love me even if I didn't fit it, my hair was messy, and my clothes weren't just right. But she wouldn't love me if I neglected her because I was partying or out with a guy. At that point, I changed. I don't think I fully changed until gr.9. Realized, I was my own person, and I stopped caring about what other people think. I truely believe my horse gave me this self confidence, and the knowledge to do the right thing. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the people that do drugs or sleep around at a early age are bad people, just that they made the wrong decisions.

Now, I am involved in a committee to bring more activties to my small town. We researched, and found that most people sleep, drink, and do drugs out of lack of something better to do. In other words, boredom. Also, they feel they need something to help them fit in, lack of self confidence. Horses give you self cofidence, and if you are serious, you don't get bored.

And, I'm friends with a older crowd, always have been . And my friends aren't angels at all. You just have to have the strenght to say no.

Andrea

Save A Horse, Ride A cowboy

Box-of-Rox

Jan. 20, 2002, 06:47 AM

emily A- I think it's HYSTERICAL!!! eventually this kid got the number of someone who would meet him on 79th and Lex, and you haven't see anything untill you've seen a preppy private school kid in Prada shoes, sweater, and jacket clutching an international motorola (for calling his father in Milan /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) and a north face backpack. I was like "ummm, I'm going home. why someone would choose to do this a block away from their parents is beyond me."

dumb as a box of rocks, but w/ REALLY nice horses....

JulieMontgomery

Jan. 20, 2002, 07:11 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by S.C.:
emily A- I think it's HYSTERICAL!!! eventually this kid got the number of someone who would meet him on 79th and Lex, and you haven't see anything untill you've seen a preppy private school kid in Prada shoes, sweater, and jacket clutching an international motorola (for calling his father in Milan /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) and a north face backpack. I was like "ummm, I'm going home. why someone would choose to do this a block away from their parents is beyond me."

dumb as a box of rocks, but w/ REALLY nice horses....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

achcosuva

Jan. 20, 2002, 03:52 PM

I've long since made a promise to myself that I'm not having sex until I'm either married, or doing Intermediate level eventing (which will be a while!). I simply cannot imagine having to give up riding because I'm pregnant and single. It makes no sense to me. But I do notice that, even if I can't ride for a week because of weather or whatever, I turn into a completely different person. I'm snappy and have mood swings and am irritated by the slightest things. When I can ride every day or so, like normal, then I'm my usual laid-back passive self. Riding is definately a stress reliever. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-Anne, the owner of a PrettyFilly-
"Mary had a little lamb...and a side of fries."

Sparky22

Jan. 20, 2002, 04:21 PM

I definitely can't agree that horses will keep you out of trouble. I think that anyone who has spent a significant amoutn of time on the circuits knows that there is definitely a dark side of it that everyone pretends does not exist.

I DO think, however that the horses are a deterent. The people I have met through the horses have certainly changed my life. I was your typical high school student. I played sports, got good grades, partied pretty much every weekend, but I was at the barn the rest of the time. I was always at the barn when I had a free second because, well..I am horse crazy and have been since I was about 7. One of the reasons I have always stayed out of trouble (ie never been caught getting into trouble) was because I never wanted to lose the respect of the people who have made such a huge impact on my life. To have someone tell you you are a great role model for their kids, or that they would have no problem leaving you, a 16 or 17 year old to run their barn while they are out of town for the week...that's something to feel good about...so why ruin it?

I don't think that horses will keep you sheltered from the "Evils" of the world. They could, however if you were locked inside a barn with horses, and had no other contact. But in that case, I would say that the locks were what kept you sheltered /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I think it is all based on choices. It is up to the individual as to where their life leads them. No one else makes those choices: not parents, not peer pressure /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, and not horses. I think all of those things can guide you on different paths, but it is the individual who decides where that path will ultimately lead them.

~~Kate~~

--------------------------
Member of Digruntled College Students Not-so Anonymous

"Date equestrians, the rest are just players" Haha...suuuuuure!

Ride like a champ!

Blue Devil

Jan. 20, 2002, 04:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sparky22:
I think it is all based on choices. It is up to the individual as to where their life leads them. No one else makes those choices: not parents, not peer pressure /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, and not horses. I think all of those things can guide you on different paths, but it is the individual who decides where that path will ultimately lead them.

~~Kate~~
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really agree with you here, but I do want to say that some things, like parenting, can AFFECT the individual's decision making I think. But I truly agree with your statement. (blah I make no sense!)

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

Sparky22

Jan. 20, 2002, 04:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Emily A:

I really agree with you here, but I do want to say that some things, like parenting, can AFFECT the individual's decision making I think. But I truly agree with your statement. (blah I make no sense!)

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I agree with you...people can affect other's decision making...but it is up to the individual to make the ultimate decision.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~Kate~~

--------------------------
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest.
-- John Keats

"Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." --Patrick Overton

SLW

Jan. 20, 2002, 08:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sparky22:
And I agree with you...people can affect other's decision making...but it is up to the individual to make the ultimate decision.
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~~Kate~~

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is it, your RIGHT on track!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif As "Dr. Phil" says, regarding his life strategy's "You either GET it, or you DON'T get it." The sooner you "get it", the less problems you'll create for yourself.

Towards that end, my almost 13 year old is SOUND asleep on the sofa tonight- way too tired to surf- after we hauled to an indoor to ride in today, a very brisk, windy day. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Tommorow, no school but we'll haul back over to ride and when we get home she has to help unload hay and clean her mares stall. Aren't horsies grrrrrrrrreat!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SLW
"It is I."

more_pace!

Jan. 20, 2002, 08:52 PM

reading these posts i see lots of people praising horses for keeping them out of serious trouble. now i think i need to post about the coaches and trainers out there who are better than the horses at keeping one out of trouble! quinn ALWAYS asks where i am going, who i going out with, who's driving, when i will be in MY bed, and what time i will be at the barn the next day! she can be worse than my parents! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif yes i beleive the horses do alot to keep one out of trouble but if anyone else out there has a coach like mine WATCH OUT! but with this parent like attitude comes a lot of advice, lectures /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif , stories (enough to scare me away from some things!) and support. i know she will not freak out if i get drunk, i also know i can call anytime if i need anything, whereas my parents might just be a little freaked out!!
she is not a control freak but she has pointed me in the right direction lots of times,(... well maybe more like strongly directed me with no other options in the correct direction /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )
that said i must get back to this king lear project so i can ride tomorrow night!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Heidi

Jan. 20, 2002, 09:04 PM

I don't think sex is evil; I don't think sex outside of marriage is a sin; and I don't believe that sheltering our children from the real pleasures of sex addresses anything but our horror as parents that our children may, in fact, be sexual.

That said, I'd like to believe that it's only mature, responsible, emotionally secure teenagers who are having sex; in lieu of my fantastical vision, I'd prefer that teenagers are educated about BOTH the consequences and pleasures of sex, at home and at school. Speaking of fantasy, I'd really prefer that the emotional issues behind a young girl's decision to have sex at a young age be identified, addressed, and contemplated by her parents before she ever decides that sex will make her feel pretty, popular and complete.

Fjord Jockey, your post is about the most offensive thing I've yet read on this BB. Wake up and read the rape stats. /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

ErinB

Jan. 20, 2002, 09:07 PM

Heidi- While I can see how Fjord's post might have been a little offensive to some people, she does have a point.

~Erin B #1
Visit my Website (http://usa.internations.net/pets/mizpig//outlooks1.htm)
Wear short sleeves! Support your right to bare arms!

JER

Jan. 21, 2002, 12:24 AM

This thread is ridiculous. It purports to be about whether an interest in horses is a protection against teenage pregnancy.

Horses are not, to my knowledge, considered a form of contraception. Birth control pills, condoms, IUDs, implants, etc. are contraceptives with actual clinical data supporting their relative effectiveness. Teenage girls (and boys) need to be educated in the facts of contraception and they need to have adults around them with whom they are comfortable talking about sex and sexuality. Horses are no substitute for this.

Sex is part of life. There is nothing inherently bad about it just as there is nothing inherently good about 'saving yourself for marriage'. We should all do what we're comfortable with and make sure that it is our own personal choice, not someone else's point of view that has been forced upon us. Personally, I think sex is a good thing and I think it's unfortunate that most parents would rather say 'don't do it' than actually talk to their children about the physical and emotional aspects of sexuality.

Fjord's post is offensive. Not just a little, ErinB. She's saying, in effect, that sexual assault is excused by the way the victim is dressed. This is wrong.

The Taliban forced extreme restrictions on Afghan women for this very reason -- the burqa rendered women shapeless; women could not speak in public because the very sound of a woman's voice might 'eroticize' a man. Rather than put the blame where it belonged -- on the men who assaulted women -- they enslaved half the population. Tell me Fjord and Erin, were they asking for it?

You cannot justify someone's violent behavior by blaming the victim.

I appeal to the powers that be to shut this thread down ASAP.

SLW

Jan. 21, 2002, 07:53 AM

JER- ErinB, a young poster, started this thread asking a sincere, relevant question w/ a point of view where she perceives society is "anti-virgin"- supported by the magazine example she quoted- and are equestrian girls more or less vulnerable to "peer pressure".

The responses have been thoughtful and kind w/ diverse points of view which run from "wait until you are married" to "sex outside of marriage is not a sin".

As for FjordJockeys post I understand and respect that posters point of view. FJ did NOT excuse the criminal behavior of men who would sexually assault women, not at all. FJ post speaks clearly for itself and it is a position which I agree with. Young women who dress suggestively DO set themselves up to be "picked" on by red-blooded young men. That's been a fact as long men have had breath in their lungs and it will continue to be that way.

I think this is a thought provoking thread and very on topic.

SLW
"It is I."

Darva

Jan. 21, 2002, 08:24 AM

Thank you Heidi,
you took the words right out of my mouth.

HelloAgain

Jan. 21, 2002, 09:18 AM

"DO set themselves up to be "picked" on by red-blooded young men."

So, according to you, "red-blooded" men do not need to restrain themselves or think of women as more than bodies? Instead, women should carefully gauge their actions and live by what is acceptable to the red-blooded men around them.

I'm sorry, your opinion quite sickens me.

Erin

Jan. 21, 2002, 09:30 AM

Y'know what folks... I think some of you are reading a LOT more into that post than what was intended.

I don't honestly think Fjord Jockey is condoning rape because a woman/girl is dressed skimpily. I think she is just commenting on some of the clothes that teenage girls wear and what on earth their parents are thinking letting them out of the house like that. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Can we please get back to the horsey aspects of this topic?

One thing that I don't think has been touched on much yet is how a girl/woman's self-esteem factors into some of these decisions. Riding can give a great sense of accomplishment, a chance to be good at something, a chance to have control over an aspect of life (hey, if you can control a 1200-pound horse, that's saying something, right?)... I do think a lot of that carries over into other aspects of life.

Riding has often been used as therapy, both physical and emotional. I have heard that riding is often used as therapy for people struggling with eating disorders... makes sense to me.

Heidi

Jan. 21, 2002, 10:34 AM

I think riding can fortify a sense of existing self-confidence - but I don't believe that riding and horses in and of themselves can create a sense of self-posession and confidence that extends beyond the barn and show ring.

For the insecure girl or teen, there are many temptations in the show world to which she can easily succumb - drinking, drugs, sex. Let's not pretend that there isn't an element of cliquishness and material snobbery among the teens in the sport; and the pressure to dress and fit in as 'a cool princess' is as great in horse sports as it is in the hallways of countless high schools. And I've seen as many drunken and provocatively dressed young girls at exhibitor parties as I have at clubs in the city.

To the issue of provocatively dressed teens, I think we need to ask ourselves why a young girl would go to these lengths for attention - in my mind, it speaks to a need for attention and lack of confidence; and it is a reflection of a culture which defines women as sexual objects. A young girl who dresses provocatively isn't asking for sex - she's begging for attention.

As much as I'd like to think otherwise, the girls and teens in horse sports aren't immune to these exact social pressures and maladies.

ErinB

Jan. 21, 2002, 10:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> This thread is ridiculous. It purports to be about whether an interest in horses is a protection against teenage pregnancy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As the person who started this thread, I think I have a better idea of its intent that you. Re-read it, please. I said,

"I'm asking this because it seems that we, as horse people, just seem so much different from the "outside" world. I've honestly never met a horse person who would even consider acting that way. Do you think it's because we have such a responsibility to our horses? Because we're so dedicated to our "real" lives that we have no time to pause and experience being a real teenager?"

I was merely observing that horse people, in general (that I, personally, have met) seem to be a little more grounded and have a better idea of what is acceptable and what isn't that people without the constant responsibility of horsekeeping.
I know that this doesn't apply to everyone and I already stated that there are definitely exceptions.
I've even posted threads similar to this before, that horse people do tend to be a little less shallow and more responsible (IN MY EXPERIENCE) than non-horse people (particuarly people my age).

And read the title of my post. It's teenage pregnancy that's disgusting to me, not sex. And yes, that ridiculous article in a magazine going out to thousands of impressionable girls was extrememly upsetting to me, because in my opinion, sex is a privelege that comes with responsibility. There's nothing casual about it because it CAN result in pregnancy (well, duh), which is the reason for my post in the first place. The article was offensive to me because it pushes sex as a plaything, not a serious action that can come with consequences if you aren't emotionally ready for it. And IMHO, a lot of people my age aren't. Including me.

Do you kind of understand what I'm saying?
/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I know I'm being kind of confusing but then again, I'm kind of confused.

You know what? It's your opinion as to whether or not Fjord Jockey's post offended you. Personally, it didn't offend me. That's my personal opinion no matter what you say. Yes, rape is a very serious problem but then again, so are the girls who reason that they're worthless unless they've had sex, the people who write articles condoning teenage sex, the girls who've done it prematurely that are pregnant and are going to have kids that they're not capable of raising and possibly will go out and do it again. You know what? To me, that's just as bad as raping someone. Girls aren't innocent and I think Fjord Jockey made a valid point.

~Erin B #1
Visit my Website (http://usa.internations.net/pets/mizpig//outlooks1.htm)
Wear short sleeves! Support your right to bare arms!

JER

Jan. 21, 2002, 11:20 AM

Erin Administrator, this is what Fjord said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Fjord Jockey:
Whoa! Okay, so sure, men are piggies, and yes, many do tend to put pressure on some of their girlfriends, but lets not forget that alot of girls out there ARE asking for it...have you seen what some of these teenage girls wear? Tube tops, halter tops, globs of make-up and the tightest pants possible. They arent exactly giving the most innocent impressions. So, just dont make it sound like its always the guys who are in the wrong. And dont even get me started on the parents.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Her point is not simply that parents shouldn't let their girls out of the house dressed 'provocatively' -- which ErinB's current signature line '...the right to bare arms...' qualifies as in some cultures. Fjord is saying that men are pigs, but it's not always their fault because the way some women dress, they're 'asking for it'. And, worst of all, that guys who harass/molest women aren't always in the wrong.

This was the line of defense used in the 1980s at the in famous Big Dan's gang rape trial in New Bedford, MA. Six men gang-raped a woman on a pool tablein a bar. They defended it by saying (1) she was dressed provocatively and therefore 'asking for it' and (2) that she was a woman with a bad reputation. The jury didn't buy it. They felt these men were guilty of rape and assault as the law defines rape and assault. By the way, she was an adult and did not have or need parents around to stop her from going out dressed 'provocatively'.

A woman has a right to go into a bar alone, dressed however she pleases within the guidelines of public decency ('no shirt, no shoes, no service') and have a drink. No one, male or female, has any excuse for molesting another individual, especially after the individual has made it clear that the advances are unwanted. No means no, remember?

A Buddhist will claim a woman is dressed indecently if her arms are bare. A Muslim could
claim a woman is indecent if she's not covered head to toe in a shapeless gown with a veil obscuring her face. Indecency is relative, we all have our ideas of what is 'indecent' but it can never be an excuse for one individual harrassing another, emotionally, physically or sexually.

I have a 14 year-old and I do think that riding and caring for horses is a good confidence builder for a young girl. Breeding horses is a good thing, too -- a kid learns a lot about sex and pregnancy and birth and babies (the fact that we toss around words like 'semen', 'uterus', 'insemination' over the course of a normal conversation makes these topics seem less taboo and more like part of life). But as Heidi and others have pointed out, horses alone are not a substitute for a good support system. Nor should horses be an escape (as opposed to a tranquil refuge) from dealing with the rest of the world.

PepTalk

Jan. 21, 2002, 11:31 AM

Thank you, Erin! I AGREE!

That's why I ride and LOVE horses the way that I do! My mom asked me a couple of months ago, why I LOVE the horses and riding so much. I told her that's it one of the only things that I am good at. I LIKE the fact that I can ride a 1,200 pound ex-racehorse that can be a brat and spooks sometimes. I like the fact that my trainer has said that she, "LOVES the way that I am so determined"(her words not mine) when I am riding and learning something new. You bet your a**, that made me feel GOOD! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif That coming from a person that I admire SO much for what she has done and accomplished in trying to get me to a show(ANY show), even though I don't have much money and can barely pay the entry fees, anyway. She has done SO much for my self-esteem and has made me realize that, "Hey, I AM SOMEBODY and can ride my lease horse like nobody's business!"
For that, I am grateful and proud to be her student! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Coreene

Jan. 21, 2002, 01:05 PM

Donning flamesuit first.

Okay, this is one of the big bees up my butt. If you look at a country like The Netherlands, where birth control is accessable at a young age and they don't preach totally unrealistic things like "practice abstinence," then you also see that they have the world's lowest teenage pregnancy rate.

Because ain't nothing gonna stop no one when you've got the hootchie-koo going on in your hormones and your knickers, so why not accept it, be realistic instead of reactionary, and follow the lead that this and so many other Western European countries have taken, with great success.

Erin

Jan. 21, 2002, 01:10 PM

Yes, JER, I'm familiar with the case you cite, and with the traditions in other countries. I still think you are reading too much into Fjord Jockey's post, and I think it's a bit extreme to whip out the comparisons to repressed women in third world countries and gang rape victims. But hey, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

My impression of her post was that she was saying the girls out there getting into trouble are not always pure, innocent, and righteous, and being led astray by evildoing men.

In fact, as Heidi stated, sometimes these "innocent" girls are messed up and insecure, are going out to bars and clubs (or exhibitors' parties) dressed to be ogled and throwing themselves at any guy who notices, because they somehow think that sleeping with someone is going to make them feel better about themselves.

In which case the end result -- teen having sex, getting pregnant, or worse -- has absolutely zero to do with what she's wearing. But it can certainly be a symptom that things maybe just ain't quite right...

Now if you like to dress like J. Lo and still have the self-respect and intelligence to make informed, smart decisions about your life and your body, hey... you go, girl. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ErinB

Jan. 21, 2002, 01:22 PM

Uh, yeah. What she said. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Erin B #1
Visit my Website (http://usa.internations.net/pets/mizpig//outlooks1.htm)
Wear short sleeves! Support your right to bare arms!

SLW

Jan. 21, 2002, 01:25 PM

<To the issue of provocatively dressed teens, I think we need to ask ourselves why a young girl would go to these lengths for attention - in my mind, it speaks to a need for attention and lack of confidence; and it is a reflection of a culture which defines women as sexual objects. A young girl who dresses provocatively isn't asking for sex - she's begging for attention>

I agree 100%.

<a kid learns a lot about sex and pregnancy and birth and babies [the fact that we toss around words like 'semen', 'uterus', 'insemination' over the course of a normal conversation makes these topics seem less taboo and more like part of life). But as Heidi and others have pointed out, horses alone are not a substitute for a good support system. Nor should horses be an escape [as opposed to a tranquil refuge) from dealing with the rest of the world.>

Also well said! When our girls were little they had Dairy Goats for 4-H projects. I believe some of our best chats about human relationships/commitments occurred as a doe labored while trying to birth her kids. It took me MUCH longer to be able to say "Bitch" without blushing when talking to my terrier friends. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hello Again- are the parent of a son? Raising young men to become responsible, respectable young men is every bit as difficult as raising young girls to become young women. Young men have no right to violate a young woman, at any age and in the text of this chat I believe we are talking about teenage girls who are under the supervision of parents, at some level. Were my daughters to leave home dressed in low cut tops which revealed their cleavage and shorts which allowed the lower half of their buttocks to hang out and then cry to me that the boys "drooled, cat called and hit on them hard" my reply would be them "That was stupid on your part to dress that way". Again, you either "get it, or you don't". I believe that each person is accountable for themselves, man or woman. The good lads would have ignored my trashy dressed daughters because their parents might have raised them to understand that dressing like that is a cry for help, such as Heidi suggested.

SLW
"It is I."

poltroon

Jan. 21, 2002, 01:40 PM

Think of a sexual relationship as like a 3'6" jumper course (with big square oxers, and maybe a liverpool /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). When you are prepared, and you have the right partner, it is thrilling and wonderful, and something you will remember with pleasure for the rest of you life. If you are not prepared, or if you have the wrong partner, you can be embarrased, severely hurt, or even killed, and remember it as a horror for the rest of your life.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (Nothing like horses as a source of analogy!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

One reason I stayed away from drugs and alcohol as a teen/young adult is because I saved all of my money for horses. $3-$5 for a beverage when I could save that money towards my next horse show? No thanks! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (I also am hypersenstive about this mass of chemical reactions people call my brain, and am very much aware that I have no backup if I should mess it up with other weird chemicals.)

BTW, being pregnant and raising a child is nearly impossible even when you're 30 and have a healthy bank account and a terrific spouse. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

FatLilPony

Jan. 21, 2002, 01:41 PM

The fact of the matter is, Horses have kept me off the streets, out of bad habits and such. However, I can't say I have too much social experiance either. I'm not one to go out with my friends and get drunk and have sex with some scarey guys I don't know-why? Because I would never do that to myself, because I respect myself too much? Or because I don't actually GO out, or HAVE any friends, or would never even be remotely exposed to any senario like this? I don't know. Since moving, I have ben exposed a lot more to drugs, sex, and drinking. I've resloved to just not go out at all. I don't know if Im making any sense at all. My point being that horses have, kept me from doing things I'd later regret-but they've also kept me so sheltered that I don't know how to have a conversation with a non-horsey peer. I don't talk to anyone in school, I don't have any freinds that are not at the barn, and I spend all the time I'm not at home or school at the barn. A good or a bad thing? I'm not sure. I'm just thankful I don't miss having something I never had. (a social life).

-A Puerto Rican Whit
I live my life day by day, working toward one unattainble relaxing weekend.

BaByHuEy1234

Jan. 21, 2002, 05:09 PM

I agree with a lot of people on this board. I say that if you love horses and you have the will to want to continue on and have your mind set on your goals, you won't let anything get in your way.

I am the sheltered child! I had my mind so set on horses I really didn't even realized boys existed until Sophmore year!!! I didn't go to my first dance EVER until junior year Prom!! Most people think that that is sad, being like oh she is really sheltered! But you konw what? I don't regret it because I've done what I love and that's all that matters.

But then again take one girl that rides at my barn. She loves her horse and all, don't get me wrong, but she just isn't into it. She's more into the partying and boys and what not. She has a very nice horse, but only rides it 2 - 3 times a week. Very sad. I guess riding hasn't helped her.

Sports do help people stay out of trouble, but the only time they help you is if YOU want to stay out of trouble. I don't know what it is about that frehsman year, I guess just the whole high school thing, throws lots of people for a spin! If you really love what you do though, I beleive you will give anything up for it! Which most of us here have! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

~*Tracey, Just Ducky (The garbage disposal) and Baby Huey (The monster sized horsey)*~

crave2event

Jan. 21, 2002, 05:17 PM

Hummm, I think the best to judge on this, and give the most factual opipion on this subject is the teens. No one can say it better then us, what influences us in our decisions. I know some of you haven't been long from your teens, but the ages change every day. No one is better equiped to pass judgement then us. Because we know what is going through our minds.

I know that horses, parents, and my own self confidence is what influences my decision. And I haven't led a sheltered life.

Andrea

Save A Horse, Ride A cowboy

hobson

Jan. 21, 2002, 07:26 PM

I believe that one of the strongest predictors of teenage pregnancy rates (and of fertility in general) in a society is women's economic opportunity. Economy goes up, teen pregnancy goes down. Economy goes down, teen pregnancy goes up. Young women who have concrete plans and confidence for future professional satisfaction are less likely to become pregnant than women who lack these things.

This is not to say that individual choice has no role, of course. In my opinion, women who credit horses with keeping them from drugs and pregnancy probably posess the kind of personal strength and family support that would keep them out of trouble even in the absence of horses. Not everyone who rides has these sorts of what I call personal "resources."

What I think is a real problem is the early training of girls to desire motherhood practically before they can walk by giving them increasingly realistic baby dolls and praising them for playing "properly." Why are we so surprised when they start cranking out real babies the first chance they get? If we gave little girls cars, sports equipment and Batman dolls instead of babies that barf and cry and that pink frilly crap in the "Girls" section of Toys R Us, then I should think we'd see a sharp decline in teen pregnancy.

aliali

Jan. 23, 2002, 06:18 PM

Wow, this topic has just validated my entire teenhood!! I'm 16, I go to public school and I am very dedicated to my riding too. I, too, am waiting for marriage to have sex even though I have those friends who go to parties and sleep around on weekends. I really don't go to parties at all, I'd rather be at the barn or at home with a few friends. I have so many goals for the future, as far as riding, school and just life in general that I can't jeopardize them with drugs or even alcohol. Riding not only has given my life structure and meaning, it gives me time to think. As I trot round and round (I am notorious for hacking waaaay too long) I think about what my life and values are like. Riding has given me pride and self-respect, its given me discipline and a feeling of self-worth. Sometimes I think about how I probably would have stayed in the popular crowd had I not given so much time to riding as a kid, but I do not regret my decision for a second.
It's really nice to hear that there are other kids like me who stay home to get ready for a show the next day instead of going out and partying. I now know that my decisions have been right for me /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

KarmicGal

Jan. 24, 2002, 07:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I really don't go to parties at all, I'd rather be at the barn or at home with a few friends. I have so many goals for the future, as far as riding, school and just life in general that I can't jeopardize them with drugs or even alcohol. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is just exactly what I feel as well!!!!

I personally don't find it offensive to say some girls are asking to get hurt (emotionally). I don't think we are talking about rape here, at least I'm not. I just feel that I know *a lot* of girls who portray themselves as very loose, is it anywonder they go out with a guy and start sleeping together the next day? Of course when they break up a month later she is bound to get hurt and feel used. But when she willing sleeps with him, when she *wants* to sleep with him (meaining he doesn't have to pressure her, or talk her into it) what else can you expect?

I don't think sex is bad, or wrong. And i'm also not sure I'm going to wait for marriage, for me thats not the real issue. I know that I am going to wait till I am in a mature relationship (ie, not a high school fling) for at least several months. That way I know I'm prepared, and I'm reducing the risk of being hurt or used. I've just seen way too much of that. . .

KG

UndeniedGirl

Jan. 24, 2002, 11:42 AM

I was actually thinking about this the other night -- not this exactly, but a similair thing. I was talking to one of my non-horse friends about a party she went to, and found mylsef thinking how I should sell my horses and get out of it for a couple of years - that I didnt want to miss out on everything... but then I thought about what I was missig out on, and could only come up with the following list --
*Sex
*Drugs
*getting drunk

And, in reality, I am not missing out on the oppertunaty for them, just choose my horses over them. I still go to parties.. I am just not the one staggering around high and drunk waiting to be date raped (or whatever).

Also, at the few times I felt weakened and considered trying any of the above, the fact that everything I have now (horses, homeschooled, working student position, lots of freedom) is by the pure fact that my mom knows she can trust me, and I would have to give up it all up if i tried something like that.

On a side note, one thing I found pretty frightening was when one of my friends had a baby when she was 15, and another friend thought it was a good idea, because friend#1 had so much respect (really?) now, that she was so much stronger /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I dont think any of that addresses the original comment much though /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif just my ramblings.

*Cass*

<~><*><~>

"what we lost here is something better left alone" ~Shame, Matchbox20

Kalifornia

Jan. 24, 2002, 11:44 AM

I'm 22 so I was just in the "teen" years and believe it or not, but most of my friends are still acting as if they are 14.

I must say that I truly believe that horses, a sport, a true passion shapes who you are and how you view life and who you become. As riders, horse lovers and athlete's, we have better things to do than be drunk at a party making a fool of ourselves and being taken advantage of for a little attention.

I can compare my horse friends that I have grown up with to my other friends that I grew up with and well, it's pretty black and white. Of the "non-horse" girls I grew up with, 6 of the 10 have children and are 21 or 22. Of ALL of my horse friends (which is WAY more than 10) 2 have children....but they are married!!!!!!!

It's really kind of sad. I don't hang out with my "non-horse" friends anymore because we're all too different and I just drifted away from them. My oppinions and out look on life is sooooo different than theirs. And well, hey, not to be rude, but if I wanted to hang around and change diapers and listen to crying babies, I'd have my own.

I really must say that it's so nice and reassuring to know that there are girls out there that have a good head on their shoulders and are inteligent young "LADIES" I stress the word "Ladies" Ladies have class, and from what I've heard, all of you do and are.

I think we're just a different breed. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

#%*Kalifornia$%&

Jan. 24, 2002, 04:45 PM

I'm 14, I'm a freshman in High School at a small private girls school where most people have more money then sense and I feel that it's an intresting place to be in my life right now. I have a great group of friends, all the girls at school are nice, the boys at our brother school are nice. My friends are a quite group we usually go to the movies or do something fun on the weekends but nothing to the extent of most of the people I know. I know what these people do on the weekends, and I witnessed it a couple weeks ago. I'm not saying I don't make mistakes or do stupid things, I still have a life that I haven't sacrificed to riding eventhough I still ride 5 days a week.

I was out at a dance at our local country club, exclusive and expensive I was a guest with my guy friend who took me. Just watching people walk in, some I knew, they were at the point of falling over. They had many chaparones and I did see one girl get dragged out kicking and screaming. I saw guys go to lean on a wall, completely miss and fall, it was getting to the extent of ridiculus. I had a great time, I talked abit to some of my friends who now try to convince me I wasn't there.

If that's what I'm missing, so be it, those people made compelte idiots of themselves in public. One of the girls I know is being threatened to be thrown in rehab by her parents, she's new this year and at our brother schools Homecoming game she showed up completely unable to walk, at 2 in the afternoon. Some of these people, I just wonder what they're going to do when we're seniors and look back and then look forward what are we going to see? I do have to wonder where half of my friends will end up, I have no idea for some of them.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt I needed to reflect on this issue, it's something that plagues my school everyday. It's a long road to get to senior year and we're going to see what happens.

R&R
"Dmklinger: LOL - sorry - wouldn't know a backstreet boy if one came up and bit me!!"
Now if that isn't a classic!

lilblackhorse

Jan. 24, 2002, 05:51 PM

there, noone came to say anything about your post, and I will----good for you. I find this an interesting topic. Intriguing to hear the teens being so critical, yet will post a tagline that says "save a horse, ride a cowboy"...odd.

I don't understand why teens think this is a new subject-hello out there, but I have news for you, it's been around a long time, and most likely the same lure for people like our grandparents as it was for us (who are now your parents). Yes, it's a scary thought, isn't it wee ones, that YOUR parents were out there getting loaded, getting stoned and getting laid long before you were a twinkle in their eyes! Yes, I am a parent, and I don't know if I will ever share the seedier part of my younger days with my kids, unless they ask.

As for horses saving me...well, I have always been bright, and a self starter, willing to research. If the opportunity to have sex would have come up, most likely I would have looked into birth control. Being the geeky horse person/brain that I was, it wasn't happening. I however, WAS a big partier-always one of the last at the keg. I had a good time, yet I was the boys' friend-I didn't WANT to be sleeping with those bozos, since I heard how they talked about the girls afterwards. I was always "one of the guys". I continued to ride thru all of this time-yes, there were many Saturday mornings when I had to teach Pony Club with a hangover, but then, as now, when I say I am going to do something, I do it. Personal responsiblity plays a big role, as do parents in this whole equation. Having the horses in my life wouldn't have changed the situation particularly-I think what IS good is that there are Planned Parenthoods out there that are helping kids who DO choose to have sex, do it in a responsible manner. There seems to be a bent towards "holier than thou" in some of the posts, as in "I'm saving myself for marriage"....well that's dandy. Good on you. However, don't look down your noses at those who choose to do things differently-everyone matures differently. I didn't wait, nor did I ever get laid in High School, for what it was worth...I think the biggest part of this is being true to yourself and being responsible for your own health---and again, kudos to Coreene who hit the nail on the head....access to birth control and getting sex out into the open instead of all this (donning flame suit) Christian right wing "SEX IS BAD" you will rot in Hell for it business, it should never be talked about so that kids won't want to do it...Geez louise folks, how ancient is that idea???? Kids are walking hormones, and sex is pretty much all guys think about-get real, get birth control, get educated. *whew, stepping off soapbox now*

*Proud Founder of the Elipses Users Clique......We can't stop using them....*

Box-of-Rox

Jan. 24, 2002, 06:24 PM

lilblackhorse:
BRAVO YOURSELF!!!

"stay away from gray" (breeches, I mean...not horses. grey horses are fine.)

lilblackhorse

Jan. 24, 2002, 06:35 PM

thanks Box-wow, reread my post....man, was I on a roll or what??LOLOLOL /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

*Proud Founder of the Elipses Users Clique......We can't stop using them....*

SLW

Jan. 24, 2002, 07:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
Think of a sexual relationship as like a 3'6" jumper course (with big square oxers, and maybe a liverpool /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). When you are prepared, and you have the right partner, it is thrilling and wonderful, and something you will remember with pleasure for the rest of you life. If you are not prepared, or if you have the wrong partner, you can be embarrased, severely hurt, or even killed, and remember it as a horror for the rest of your life.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your analogy is perfect. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Adding to the latest post; I agree that having access to correct pregnancy information/prevention is worthwhile. On the other hand, I'm over 40, not one of my friends who *waited* has regretted it. No harm in waiting to *jump that course.* /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SLW
"It is I."

wendy

Jan. 25, 2002, 08:12 AM

I always thought the reason teenagers got into trouble was because they were bored and had no meaning in their life. So they seek meaning and stimulation by abusing drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. Anyone who has a passion in their life, say horses, is therefore automatically protected from these things.
Note: I find it kind of weird that this thread equates having sex with getting in trouble. Responsible, safe sex willingly entered into by both parties enhances one's life. I can see no value to being a virgin, although I can also see no value to engaging in meaningless sex with random partners. Most people I know, including myself, admit to becoming sexually active as teenagers. None of them got pregnant or caught horrible diseases because they were responsible and careful.

KarmicGal

Jan. 25, 2002, 09:59 AM

They aren't taking the possibility of pregnancies or STDs seriously. They aren't using contraceptives every time, even though they have easy access to them AND they have been taught about them. Whether or not people have sex when they're teens really doesn't worry me at all, I do know some teens that are sexually active and are perfectly happy and safe, BUT alot of people are a)not being safe b) in the end getting more upset/lonely/frustrated/confused/angry than they were at the beginning. YET THEY CONTINUE TO DO THE SAME THING. This is beyond me, why put yourself through that? Why make life that much harder?

Thats where a passion comes in. I figure it keeps you doing enough that you don't want all that extra stress and you don't want to hurt yourself that much when you can get long term happiness without all the side effects from your passion.

Then again maybe I don't equate horses with exhibitors parties and getting drunk because I don't show, I'm in a show wasteland (unless your doing the AQHA thing) and we have no A-shows around here. So for me its all about the HORSES, the showing isn't part of it, at all. ('cept for the schooling shows I plan with my Mom).

KG

[This message was edited by KarmicGal on Jan. 25, 2002 at 03:16 PM.]

ClemsonGraduateRider

Jan. 25, 2002, 10:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by KarmicGal:Then again maybe I don't equate horses with exhibitors parties and getting drunk because I don't show, I'm in a show wasteland (unless your doing the AQHA thing) and we have no A-shows around here. So for me its all about the HORSES, the showing isn't part of it, at all. ('cept for the schooling shows I plan with my Mom).

KG<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know that most of you who do show in the A's and post here do not get roaring drunk at exhibitor's parties because of your posts. HOwever I think that is a good example to show that horses may not be enough to keep "kids" out of trouble. I have heard many stories about exhibitor's parties and I know that it is not hard to get alcohol underage. I'm sure there are more kids who do not get wasted at them than do but still - I think it goes to show that even if you do have horses in your life a lot of your choices can be chalked up to individual personality. I think this is the same for any sport really - I mean I see plenty of people who are serious about their sport getting wasted on the weekends and on the other hand plenty who don't!!

So I guess I don't really have a point - I think that might have been a bit confusing but I hope someone understands what I am trying to say!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

KarmicGal

Jan. 25, 2002, 12:23 PM

For instance, I know a lot of hockey players, in fact my brother was one and it's probably the biggest sport around here for teens (esp guys) so I'll use that as an example. From what I've seen 99% of the hockey players are NOT taking good care of their bodies, a lot of them smoke, a lot of them chew, a lot of them smoke pot (a lot), and they pretty much all seem to get drunk frequently. I'm not talking having four or five beers either, I'm talking about drinking twelve or more, and than taking shots. Yet a lot of these people are considered to be the best in the league, the next year they want to go away, eventually they want to get drafted in the OHL etc.

So it seems to me that you can be very serious into a sport yet it still doesn't stop you from doing some things excessively.

I don't mean to seem anti-show, I know there are probably lots of people (the majority) here who do show and aren't doing it just for showing, orjust for the competitiveness but are doing it because they love horses. But I do think there are some people who if it weren't for shows WOULDN'T be riding, especially wouldn't be taking it seriously. Those, imo, are the people who will still do things in an excessive/potetntially harmful way, despite the fact that they ride a lot.

Just more of my rambling (can you tell I'm off for exam week? /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif )

KG

ClipClop

Jan. 25, 2002, 12:49 PM

I didn't really want to post on this thread, but somehow I got sucked in. :-)

41% of all women under the age of 21 will have been pregnant at some point in their lives. When I read this today in health class boy was I ever shocked!!!!! I can honestly say, that at 16 I am no where NEAR ready to even think about sex. When you even consider having it, then you have to think about all the consequences that MIGHT happen, such as pregnancy, STD's, emotional loss, etc. That is some scary stuff!!!

Personally, horses have kept me out of the party life pretty much. Especially during the summer when there is heavy partying, I am always getting ready for shows. But, I think if I wasn't involved with horses I would have found something else to keep me out of that life. That's just the kind of person I am.

Lilblackhorse- Christians have never said Sex is bad. In fact, Sex (In the Bible) is a gift when used wisely. I think the whole purpose of not having "seedy" teenage years is so you DON'T have to tell your children you were out evey night getting stoned.

Now what I think is worse than Teenage pregnancy is when teenagers DO get pregnant and then are rejected by their parents, family and friends for making a mistake. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Ouch.

-Life is an adventure. You can't plan an adventure, or it ceases to be one.-

Coreene

Jan. 25, 2002, 01:01 PM

There are just some really black and white facts that people need to accept:

1. Preaching abstinence is not realistic and it does not work.

2. Making sex "dirty" does not work.

3. Keeping children away from contraceptives by preaching abstinence and making sex dirty and making it difficult and/or impossible for girls to get on the pill does not work.

In this day and age there should be NO EXCUSE AT ALL that the leading industrial nation in the world should have teenage pregnancy rates which are at epidemic proportions because of the outdated ways in which this country addresses the problem.

Anne FS

Jan. 25, 2002, 01:19 PM

Actually, coreene, check your recent studies. Your #s 2 & 3 are correct, but apparently teaching abstinence does have an effect in the decrease in unwanted teen pregancies. I'll have to dig out the study where I read this. It had something to do with the encouragement and reassurance to teens that saying no to sex is OK.

Presenting abstinence as an option along with birth control if you are sexually active is proving to be most effective. As KarmicGal said, there are people out there who are "in the end getting more set/lonely/frustrated/confused/angry than they were at the beginning."

Teaching abstinence to help them cope with the pressure to engage in something they're not ready for does help.

So Intent

Jan. 25, 2002, 01:28 PM

intrestingly, i took the required high school health class in two different states, texas and florida.

the texas health class focused on STD's and abstinence. Very little to no info given on birth control.

the florida health class gave little info on STD's (we went over them, but did not scare ourselves silly), but we spent at least an entire class period talking about birth control, how you should use more than one type at any time, what to use if you don't have a condom, etc.

Intresting differences, especially considering my texas school was much more liberal than my florida school.

I personally believe abstinence should be taught as a form of birth control. emphansized. But I don't like the attitude that sex is this horrible dirty thing. In the end, teens will have sex. And making it such a taboo makes it harder to gain birth control and understand thier options of something happens.

Coreene

Jan. 25, 2002, 01:31 PM

Preaching abstinence may help, but it is not a form of birth control. So much of this keeps spinning back to the continuous teaching that sex is dirty. Even jamming the practicing abstinence down a kid's throat reinforces it.

SLW

Jan. 25, 2002, 04:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by coreene:
Preaching abstinence may help, but it is not a form of birth control. So much of this keeps spinning back to the continuous teaching that sex is dirty. Even jamming the practicing abstinence down a kid's throat reinforces it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

May I offer this from the Center for Disease Control website; July 2001; "CDC studies have shown that several factors have contributed to the decline in the teen birth rate. Sexual activity for teens has leveled off, reversing the steady increases over the past two decades. Many initiatives have focused on the prevention of pregnancy through abstinence and many teenagers have heard this message. For teenagers who are sexually active, more are using contraception including the more effective newer forms."

I think it's refreshing that the overall teenage pregnancy rate is DOWN, that information is covered in the full report.

17 years or so ago MTV made it's debut and wow oh wow what an impact that made on the young people. Now with alternative stations like RFTV and OLN to watch, maybe trends will continue to change for the better, at least for the young folks who ride and are passionate about horses. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SLW
"It is I."

lisa

Jan. 25, 2002, 05:04 PM

First of all, unintended pregnancy, while bad in in itself, would be the least of my worries for my teen and pre-teen. (Don't get me wrong, it would be very worrisome...) Good grief, there are STDs out there that not only can cause a life of heartache, but DEATH. I cannot believe a school system would suggest "alternatives" to condoms, the most effective form of control of STDs. No condom, no sex. Schools and families should, IMHO, scare kids if necessary regarding these facts.

Anyway, somebody previously brought up YM magazine. The other day, my 12-year-old daughter and I were in a drs. office reading a letter written by a 12- or 13-year-old saying how her parents wouldn't let her go to a co-ed sleepover, and what should she do? HEL-LO!!!! The columnist responded that she should "do things so her parents trust her more" or "go to the party for a few hours". HUH? I was shocked and appalled that a magazine for teens was condoning this type of situation.

Are co-ed sleepovers common now? (No way, no how in my family, that's for sure!!) My boyfriends (few as they were, many moons ago /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) were never even allowed in my bedroom, and my then-fiance was told to go home after we were caught smooching in my room /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ... I can't believe parents are so worried about their teens having sex, and then proceed to invite them to do it in their own home!!

ClipClop

Jan. 25, 2002, 06:37 PM

Very Common. Sad, but true.

-Life is an adventure. You can't plan an adventure, or it ceases to be one.-

Sparky22

Jan. 25, 2002, 07:00 PM

It does sounds odd that people let their kids go to such things, but I went to plenty. And speaking as someone who was recently in high school and going to these things, your kids are more likely to have sex during the day when someone isn't home, or after school at someone's house. The parents were always involved in all the sleepovers we had. Everyone slept in one big room, and most, if not all of the kids I knew would not have sex in front of all of their friends. My mom NEVER would have let me do that at 12 or 13, but when I was 15 or so she started letting me. It all revolves around trust, and a kid who fully respects their parents and does not want to lose that trust won't do anything to jeopardize it.

~~KAte~~

If people are worried about their kids having sex, they need to talk to them about it.

--------------------------
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
-- John Keats

Opportunity does not knock, it presents itself when you beat down the door.
-- Kyle Chandler

crave2event

Jan. 25, 2002, 07:36 PM

I've been to some. At parties when my drive has had too many, (I don't drink) most of us would sleep over. My mom won't let people stay over either. I dont know, I think if you are responsible, you're responsible. I know people think, she's a teen, how is she going to be responsible. But the truth is, its the person that makes the final decision. My mother would trust me, maybe not the guy though. Like I said, me being a teen, and a rider, says that the horse impacts my decision.

Andrea

Ever wonder why sheep don't shrink when it rains?

lilblackhorse

Jan. 25, 2002, 07:49 PM

ok, well call me old fashioned, but I never had a coed sleepoever, and my kids are certainly never going to attend one-regardless of whether there are parents there or not! Wow, that is pretty amazing that parents would allow their kids to be in that kind of situation.

As a parent, right now, I know where my kids are all the time-maybe I am naive, but as they get older, I still plan on knowing that. They aren't by themselves, because like someone pointed out, yes, most teenagers are going to take advantage of the 3-6 pm "nobody's home" time.

*Proud Founder of the Elipses Users Clique......We can't stop using them....*

Jan. 25, 2002, 09:28 PM

Found out today a very Christian college junior at our school is pregnant. Talk about a shocker. I guess religion doesn't solve everything.......

**Elizabeth***
The former I'm real
Disgruntled College Students Clique ROCKS!!!!!
Proud Bubblehead for 8 years
"Who can say when your heart sighs, only time" --Enya

Chicago

Jan. 26, 2002, 07:30 PM

I'm not sure I understand why Christianity seems to mean absolute abstinence until marriage in most people's minds. There are many liberal Christian denominations out there; sexual tolerance, "Pro-Choice," and leftist attitudes are quite common.

I personally think that having activities I enjoy has kept me out of the party world many of my peers enjoy. While they spend their weekends socializing, I go riding, or I go play with my band.

I didn't think that this necessarily stems from a "holier than thou" attitude, it's just that I have other things that I like to do.

Just my $.02

Formerly known as DF Duplication!

Jan. 26, 2002, 07:35 PM

She's VERY VERY conservative christian......

**Elizabeth***
The former I'm real
Disgruntled College Students Clique ROCKS!!!!!
Proud Bubblehead for 8 years
"Who can say when your heart sighs, only time" --Enya

Chicago

Jan. 26, 2002, 07:36 PM

Ah. Gotcha. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Formerly known as DF Duplication!

hobson

Jan. 26, 2002, 08:00 PM

I'd like to add that many fine, upstanding people use drugs without harming themselves or others, and it's not because they lack direction or meaning in their lives. I often have wine with dinner. Some of my friends smoke tobacco, others smoke weed, all of us have good jobs and good relationships. I used certain illegal substances back in the day as a well-adjusted and content college student. Why can't we discuss moderation? It's the kids who aren't permitted to even sniff alcohol until they're 21 who end up going to the emergency room with birthday-induced alcohol poisoning.

It seems to me that, likewise, a healthy approach to sexuality will acknowledge that sexual activity outside of marriage (as though all marriages were perfect and egalitarian!) is not necessarily the sign of moral degredation. The self-congratulatory "I love being a virgin" stuff strikes me as an excessive preoccupation with sex that is just as extreme as promiscuity. I wish we could just give women the freedom, power, and responsibility to make their choices -- abstinence being a perfectly reasonable option -- without subjecting it all to a weird "family-values" analysis. I honestly don't care about other people's sexual activity, and as I've pointed out on another thread of this topic, not everyone has a choice in the matter of their own virginity.

Xctrygirl

Jan. 26, 2002, 08:30 PM

Ok, I have held off and held off posting a response to this thread, but now I just gotta put my story out there.

First off, I went to all girls schools for all but 3 years of my high school and below years. (4, 5, and 6th grade was at a private co-ed school for Dyslexic children) In high school I went to a well known boarding school that yes, has a riding program.

In high school we always had at least 5 girls kicked out per year. One year we had 11. Some were riders, some not. The expulsions came from everything from smoking a cigarette to doing cocaine. Not to mention the occasional suicide attempts.

Now you know the kind of surroundings I was in. All through my life in school we were given weekly assemblies on the problems with drugs, alcohol, abuse, pregnancies, and everything that is a problem in the world.

While the horses I rode through life have indeed provided a nice bit of insulation, they didn't altogether save me from the problems of the world.

I have never touched an illegal drug in my life. I didn't drink before I turned 21. I graduated high school and was in love when I lost my virginity. I was honest with my parents and still am.

However, when I was long out of my teen years (25) and working in horse jobs full time, including living above the barn, life turned on me. One abusive boyfriend, with a possible drug habit, one bad riding fall. One trip to the ER and a discovery. I was pregnant. Try telling the abusive boyfriend this. Long story shorter, when the lamp shattered against the wall about 3 inches from my head, I made a decision. This DNA was not coming into the world through me.

While I don't expect everyone to understand or agree with this, it happened and its done.

Horses got me through the tough times no doubt. But the problems that happen in life can catch up with even the kids that obeyed the youth "rules"

A question I often wonder about is if the sheltered world of the horses helped me to become almost blind to problems that exist in other lifestyles where kids go home after school and then go hang out at the mall or wherever?

So when I was out of my parents house and on my own, even when I was older, the "sheild" of the younger horse world life wore off. And reality stepped in. And I stepped in it. Literally.

OK end of rambling.

~Emily

"I've done some bad and I've done some good, but I did a whole lot better than they thought I would"

Goodyfourshoes!

Jan. 26, 2002, 09:37 PM

Emily, thanks for sharing that. We have had similar experiences, I think, right down to the DNA part.

I too had a very good, but liberal upbringing - my parents trusted me, and I pretty much was a good kid. Drank very little. Hung out with a good crowd. While we stayed out late, nothing horrific ever happened, and things were ok.

Horses were a big part, and while I had an active social life, I certainly didn't see the other side..I knew it was there, but I had nothing to do with it.

Fast forward 5 years to a burgeoning career in the music biz, whoooaaaa, what a different world. And I was totally unprepared for it. Got involved with a creep, slightly abusive, well...you get the picture.

I do feel that the horses were an insulating factor in my childhood, while I think that kept me out of trouble then, it didn't do much for me in my twenties when I was surrounded by party people and I had the social skills of a 15 year old.

Blue Devil

Jan. 27, 2002, 12:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by hobson:
Why can't we discuss moderation? It's the kids who aren't permitted to even sniff alcohol until they're 21 who end up going to the emergency room with birthday-induced alcohol poisoning.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not always. One of my "friends" whose parents let her drink alcohol at dinners in their presence (i.e. a wine of glass or something) and even at parties has had very bad alcohol related experiences. Drinking since she was a freshman in high school "in moderation" she even says her parents think "it's better for me to learn how to drink responsibly NOW then turn 21 and like, flip over liquor." Unfortunately for her, I know this method doesn't always work.

I've been around her with liquor before. She either gets wasted-on-the-floor drunk or she abstains or has like 2 beers. This I tell you is what her "moderation" story teaches.

When we were sixteen (16!) and when I was on a trip to Italy with her and a few friends, we went to a bar/club one night. I saw her drink 6 tequila shots in a row. Then she moved on to beer and drank 3. Around this point I began to try to get another sober friend of mine to kind of "make" her quit drinking. Good luck. She was staggering and screaming. But we thought the worst was over. Unfortuantely she maintained she was FINE. She wanted more and she got it, despite me ANGERLY trying to make her stop (as I was helping ANOTHER drunk, but not as drunk, friend of mine). I guess in Italy they don't follow that "don't serve the blithering screaming drunk teenager" rule. She proceeded to have about 3-4 MORE tequila shots. I could not handle both my drunk friends and so I took my less-drunk friend home, leaving her in the hands of 2 other friends of ours (one sober, one who had 2 beers). With MY charge nicely in bed in our hotel, I hear my other friend as she and my sober friend entered the room. She was noisy but we put her in bed too and then started talking and reading magazines. About twenty minutes later, she started throwing up and choking on her throw up. She blacked out; her eyes rolled in the back of her head; she went LIMP. A bunch of our guy friends were there and so they helped us carry her (limp body) into the bathroom, strip off her clothes, and turn the cold shower on her, holding up her head, TRYING to get her to throw up at this point. I was TERRFIED. Here were 5 sober people surrounding one very-dead-looking person. Of course, it's hard to get a limp body to throw up. After about forty-five minutes, she started to have (What I believe) was a seizure. I KNEW we needed to take her to the emergency room (or whatever its equivalent in Italy is). But the people I was with just told me it would be ok. After she eventually came to, threw up a yellow looking substance (which the biology-smart person in our group believed to be bile?) for about 2 hours, and had one of my friends FORCE water down her throat she became violent. One of my friends was sitting with her in her lap, holding up up, while another was trying to force water from a cup into her mouth. She started spitting out the water, and kicking with her legs, SCREAMING.

After my friends and I changed her clothes, changed her PAD (yes, she had her period during this time too...), fixed the shower curtain which she had pulled down/out while in the shower, took tylenol (she kicked me in the HEAD), and got into bed, it was daylight again.

There are a lot of gruesome details I left out of this post, b/c obviously it's very long as it is, but let me tell you something.

That is not moderation.

After watching her go through that, I will never be drunk ever in my life. And I know some adults will say, "Why didn't you take her to the emergency room?" I would have in a heartbeat but it wasn't that simple--there was no telephone in our room, the pensione's manager type was long gone, and I would have had to go out onto the street alone and try to find somebody or someplace to help me from who also spoke ENGLISH (I spoke no Italian). That would be a dangerous proposition in and of itself at 3 or 4 am.

Of course it wasn't all peaches for my drunken friend either. The next day, since she remembered NOTHING of the night before, not even where we had gone, she got to learn that all of us (including the guys in our group) had seen her butt naked, that we had been degraded to changing her pad (ewwww), and that something very private and personal information to her had been disclosed to everyone since she was drunkingly screaming it.

I forgot why I posted all of this. Maybe the other jrs on this board will realize what a waste it is to get drunk.

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

Blue Devil

Jan. 27, 2002, 12:16 AM

Oh yeah. And she rides horses too. She has several......

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

ErinB

Jan. 27, 2002, 12:31 AM

The only thing I don't understand is why the guys in your group were also needed to, ahem, strip your friend? I suppose if she was so difficult to move around that you absolutely needed the extra hands, but... despite that being a tremedously idiotic act on her part, it seems like they could have helped carry her but not had to take her clothes off, cause that seems a little degrading to someone who's, at the moment, unconcious (and yeah it was definitely a degrading job for you too especially because it was her own fault, but you know).

~Erin B #1
If you strangled a Smurf, what color would it turn?
And what if you're scared half to death twice?

Blue Devil

Jan. 27, 2002, 12:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ErinB AKA Addicted2COTH:
The only thing I don't understand is why the guys in your group were also needed to, ahem, strip your friend? I suppose if she was so difficult to move around that you absolutely needed the extra hands, but... despite that being a tremedously idiotic act on her part, it seems like they could have helped carry her but not had to take her clothes off, cause that seems a little degrading to someone who's, at the moment, unconcious (and yeah it was definitely a degrading job for you too especially because it was her own fault, but you know).

~Erin B #1
If you strangled a Smurf, what color would it turn?
And what if you're scared half to death twice?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

She had thrown up all over herself.

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

Blue Devil

Jan. 27, 2002, 12:57 AM

ErinB, I think I'm finally becoming a COTH 3-am addict like you!

**~~Emily~~** proud
member of the junior clique!
Emily@catchride.com

geckoUBC

Jan. 27, 2002, 01:31 AM

Wow, Emily. That's a pretty scary story.

Personally, I'm 15 and have never gotten drunk. I seriously cannot believe how free people my age are about drinking and partying. Sometimes I wish I was "normal" and did stuff like that, but then I realize- what am I actually missing out on? Uh... not much. Some people I regard as sensible, intelligent people, I have found out drink quite heavily, and that changes how I view them. I've been pretty sheltered my whole life, but I think this has been good for me.

Next year I'm going to university and will be 16. It worries me how everyone talks about getting drunk as one of the high points of university life. Some of my older friends that are going to the same school as me next year talk about getting me a fake ID, and taking me out partying. Seriously, I don't know what I will do. I really don't think I want to do stuff like that - I mean, I'm a good kid, if I say so myself. Doing things like that just aren't me. However, being with people 2 years older than me, in a place where the legal drinking age is 18, I'm sure there'll be pretty heavy peer pressure to drink. And I don't want to be friendless in university. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

For me, drugs are just out of the question. I would never do that to myself. I also will and have never smoked in my life.

Oh, Emily, about your night time COTH posting - good! You're learning! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Aleesha

DRESSAGE, n.: the passionate pursuit of perfection by the obsessively imperfect

[This message was edited by cutelilpony on Jan. 27, 2002 at 08:21 AM.]

crave2event

Jan. 27, 2002, 05:30 AM

Trust me Cutelilpony, (I'm the same age) while its fun at the time, (and I didn't even have the hangover) When you think back its not fun. Some of the things you said/did makes you feel like a complete fool.

My friend is a horse girl. Has her B in pony club and everything. Lost her virginity at age 15. Did drugs a couple times. Got drunk a lot. I didn't really have a rpoblem with anything but the drugs. I really don't see the reason for them, but thats jmo. And really, people (even grown ups) have suggested I use a bit when the pain is too much for me to deal with and I get into chronic fatigue/depression. "Why don't you let go, smoke up, and for once you won't be in constant pain. " this was when we were at the point where I would do anything not to be in pain. But I wouldn't do it. I decided instead, to take a break from riding.

Anyway, I got away from my topic. I said horses kept you away, well I changed my mind. The person you are, and your own thoughts, keep you away from getting pregnant.

All in yourself. No one makes you do it (unless, well....) you make your choices. You.

Andrea

Ever wonder why sheep don't shrink when it rains?

hobson

Jan. 27, 2002, 06:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by cutelilpony:

Next year I'm going to university and will be 16. It worries me how everyone talks about getting drunk as one of the high points of university life. Some of my older friends that are going to the same school as me next year talk about getting me a fake ID, and taking me out partying. Seriously, I don't know what I will do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This one's really pretty easy to deal with, luckily: you'll find that there are lots of neat people at the university, not all of whom find getting drunk the high point of their social lives. You'll find plenty of friends who are interested in drinking either soda or beer in social situations, with more interesting social motivations than the pursuit of inebriation. What a bore to waste time with people who have nothing more to offer than a desire to get as drunk as possible. Don't worry about it, just make new friends.