GM clinic- brave or foolhardy?

[Janet]

I just signed up for the George Morris clinic in October (at Foxchase). So am I brave or foolhardy? Is he going to hold it against me for riding in an eventing saddle? (I have a flatter saddle, but it doesn;t fit that horse as well.) Is he going to hold it against me that my (dress) boots are too short? I'll be in the "3 foot plus" division.

The clinics I have been too recently have had lots of useful exercises, but not a lot of criticism (constructive or otherwise). I figure I am ready to get a long list of "things I need to work on".

(I think his comments about the Nations Cup team were deplorable, but I also think I owuld learn a lot at his clinic.)

Anybody else going?

[Janet]

I just signed up for the George Morris clinic in October (at Foxchase). So am I brave or foolhardy? Is he going to hold it against me for riding in an eventing saddle? (I have a flatter saddle, but it doesn;t fit that horse as well.) Is he going to hold it against me that my (dress) boots are too short? I'll be in the "3 foot plus" division.

The clinics I have been too recently have had lots of useful exercises, but not a lot of criticism (constructive or otherwise). I figure I am ready to get a long list of "things I need to work on".

(I think his comments about the Nations Cup team were deplorable, but I also think I owuld learn a lot at his clinic.)

Anybody else going?

[Jane]

You'll definitely learn a lot. As for your saddle and boots....I really couldn't tell you, but I want to say that as long as they're clean, fits, and "functional", he really isn't going make a big deal out of it...if at all. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The yearly Hunterdon clinic info just arrived yesterday. I'll probably go on sunday as a spectator.

[Natalie]

I can't tell you for sure, but I've read and heard tons about GM. I agree with Jane; if your tack and boots are immaculate, and your horse is in good weight and well groomed, you shouldn't have a problem. I would think that a horseman as old-fashioned as GM wouldn't be swayed by the latest fashions as long as you're neat and tidy, and ESPECIALLY if you ride well. Have fun! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow."

[MAD]

Go for it, Janet. He's not my favorite person this week, but even I would sign up!

[DMK]

Shorten your stirrups, ride with an automatic release (oops, you event /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif bet that part is already done!), make sure you wear a black velvet cap and use a white pad, and don't mention the AHSA, Samsung, Nations Cup or any of those other buzz words, and you should do fine.

Only other thing I have heard is that if you are just comfortable at 3'6, you should not do the 3'6 clinic and so on...

[Janet]

I am more than comfortable jumping 3'3" courses, and individual 3'6" fences. And the group is defined as "3' plus". The other groups are 2'6" to 3' and 2'3" to 2'6".

[SBT]

Wish I were going! Don't worry about your boots or saddle. As long as they're clean, and you and your horse are super-tidy, you shouldn't have a problem. When I went for my lessons at Hunterdon, I took my old Collegiate saddle. It's definitely seen better days, but of course, it WAS spotless! I was worried that George would tell me to go out and buy a new one. During my lesson, he had to adjust my leg position (I had ridden dressage for a year and my leg got too far back). While he was there, he checked the girth...then asked, "What kind of saddle is that?" *gulp*...I said, "Collegiate." He said, "Okay. Let's fix your other leg," or something like that. WHEW! In hindsight, I wish he had turned to my mom and said, "No wonder this poor kid's leg is messed up! You need to go get her a new saddle!" /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif What I found, though, is that all he's really worried about is neatness and cleanliness. Make & model aren't that important, be it your saddles, boots, or breeches (I rode that lesson in my off-the-shelf Devon-Aire field boots and a hand-me-down pair of breeches my friend shrank.) So, go for it, good luck, and have fun!

Sara /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[gwen]

I would love to take a clinic with him!!! I have admired him ever since I was a little girl!!!! I think it would be a chance of a lifetime!!

Barb /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[libbyd16]

good for u i really wont be as bad as u think im doing another one with him in a month or 2he is great and although critical it is very helpful

[Rockford]

I did a clinic with him last year and thought he was great...would do it again next year if he comes. You will learn a lot if you listen carefully and pay attention /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If you want some tips and have access to Towerheads, LR Davidson rode an article (day by day) about participating in his clinics last year, with many helpful tips and an idea of what to expect. I believe it was written around Nov/Dec...anyway, I advise reading that before you go if you can, just so you'll be prepared...

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
and don't mention the AHSA, Samsung, Nations Cup or any of those other buzz words, and you should do fine<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! I don't think George needs to be reminded...wanna bet he'll bring it up somehow? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Be prepared to do lots of flat work too....he's big into making the horses supple and soft. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Chanda]

Libbyd16, I would love to do a GM clinic, could you tell me more about the one you are going to? You can email me, I think it is on my profile.

[AAJumper]

Chanda, GM is doing a clinic at The Oaks December 11th-13th. I think it's become an annual thing.

Hey LibbyD...I'm from Agoura Hills too! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Gayle]

I audited George's clinic at Foxchase a couple of years ago and I wouldn't worry about any buzz words. The only time the participants talk is when asked a direct question and at the end of every session. He either asks what you have learned during the session or discusses with you what specifically you need to work on if you have a major issue. By the way he speaks to all the participants and from what I observed gets on everyone's horse at least once. He talked a great bit to those observing as well but there really wasn't time for conversation otherwise. He is strictly business. Definetly worth the money even if you can only audit.

Have fun and keep your eyes and ears open.

Oh yeah, if he asks what is the most important thing that anyone should ride with I will give you the answer he expects: YOUR BRAIN. Might earn you some brownie points. If your stirrups are different lengths and he asks why make sure you don't say your legs are uneven. He dislikes that answer. Someone said "I don't know" and he said "at least you didn't say your legs are uneven since that isn't possible".

Other than that he was funny, entertaining, informing and taught a lot. No snide comments that I have heard attributed to him in the past. If your turn out is conservative and tidy the issues you have raised will be irrelevant. Remember NO CHAPS. He hates those. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Rockford]

a few do's and don'ts~

definitely no chaps!! Breeches and tall boots (polish those boots), with a tucked in conservative shirt...if it is winter, be sure to layer or something instead of a bulky jacket- don't wear those. Also, he likes for everyone to have spurs and a crop, and of course, clean tack. Be polite and respectful, and don't ramble on and on if he asks you a question. And pay attention while the other riders are going, he expects you to learn from them too. That's all I can think of right now, hope it was helpful if you do the clinic /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Nikki^]

Wish I was going, but I don't think George would come down to Alabama. Have a wounderful time!!!

http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/ you can look up you Thoroughbred's Pedigree with photos 9 Genrations back!
Men come and go, but my horse will always love me!

[Nickelodian]

I took a clinic with him many many years ago. It was fantastic. I learned so much. No, he wasn't scary or mean. I was a beginner/int. rider at the time, and he really knew how to teach. My biggest suggestion would be to keep your ears open. At my clinic he had a microphone on, and some of his words got mumbled/jumbled. And let me just tell you it didn't go over well if you didn't correct the thing he was trying to say on the FIRST time!!!!!!!

I am so relieved, I didn't miss month 4!!! This is month 4!

[havaklu]

Sounds like you picked the right group.

A couple of suggestions.

READ HIS BOOK - he might ask questions.

Look neat and workmanlike. Boots, britches, shirt tucked in, hair up in hairnet, etc.

LISTEN and do what he says and don't take criticism personally - sometimes he will use someone to make a "point" to the group.

Make sure you are there on time and have your horse warmed up and listening to you.

He often starts the group on the flat and will give orders like - working trot, volte (please tell me you know this), reverse, collect the trot, etc - you need to be prepared to execute! Sometimes he picks one person to lead the group so to speak - it's usually a rider he knows from previous clinics or whomever seems to be most on the ball that day.

Have fun! you'll learn a lot I'm sure.

[Flash44]

Volte? I don't speak french!

Use the Force.

[Jane]

Another GM pet peeve...he hates seeing people "see-sawing" on the horse's mouth.

Also, he's big on working without stirrups, so be prepared, or start practicing, if you're rusty in that department. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Merry]

There are two clinics out here in mid-December. I've been to both a couple of times. One's at the Oaks (that AAJumper mentioned).Then there's one at Fairbrook Farm (Julie Taylor-Zumstein's place in Fallbrook). It's on a HUGE grass derby field. One of the kids in my trainer's barn is riding in that one.

Sometimes GM's mood can be a tad unpredictable (SURPRISE!). At one two years ago, he just seemed disinterested in the whole shebang and didn't say much other than have the riders go through the exercises and that was about it. Yet, I've also seen him in his trademark form. Definitely much more informative and, well, entertaining!

1.Definitely read his book!
2.Be comfortable with short/long/automatic releases. At one clinic, he had a grid set up and over each element riders were to demonstrate a different release. Sometimes he'd call out which release to use at the last second.
3. Be immaculately turned out.
4. Give everything he suggests the ol' college try. One of his pet peeves seems to be when participants don't want to even attempt to do what he suggests. Last year he literally told one lady ammy (a jumper-type rider), "If you don't want to listen to me, why are you here?" Kind of a good point, actually.

"Friends don't let friends eat fish tacos."

[dogchushu]

I'm going to be auditing one of his clinics the end of October. I've already been warned NOT to be 1 second late, or he'll make an example of you for the rest of the day (though why I'd be late for a clinic I paid $60 to audit I don't know). Oh, and I was also told not to "chatter" while he's talking. Now, they did say they'd have coffee and donuts available... but do I DARE eat a donut in front of GM????

[ShowJumps]

But since I have just started working the boys again and am not supposed to jump for two more weeks it's not possible /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Guess I'll just audit. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"No One Trains For Second
Place..."

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogchushu:
Now, they did say they'd have coffee and donuts available... but do I DARE eat a donut in front of GM????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty sure the coffee and donuts are to be consumed during the break, not during the sessions. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Evelyne]

Alright, I confess...I've ridden for 8 years, but I've never been to a clinic /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif . There really isn't much up here anyways.However, I'm supposed to be going to the Equine Affaire in November (hopefully!). Do anyone know of clinincs around Quebec or Upper New York State? Just out of curiosity, how much does participating in a clinic with someone like GM cost?

"You're only young once, but you can remain immature indefinitely."

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Just out of curiosity, how much does participating in a clinic with someone like GM cost?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
$375 for two days, two hours each day.

[pinkhorse]

Clinics are one of those situations I take a clue from my Tae Kwon Do class - "Yes sir/ma'am" or "Thank you sir/ma'am" are the only acceptable responses along with a short, concise answer to a question or a short, concise question if you don't understand something. It really makes sense. When you stop chattering you can learn. (I find myself almost saying it to my regular teacher. I think he'd flip over if I said, "Yes, sir" which was just about out of my mouth warming up at a show yesterday!)

[suecoo]

get information on these Clinics? I'm in Texas, but a friend and I are very interested in traveling up to attend one. Thanks!

Member Of THe Texas Clique & BEQS

[Janet]

This one was advertised in the Chronicle. Others I have seen advertised in the Virginia Horse Journal. I don't know if there is anything similar where you are.

[Inverness]

I audited the Foxchase GM Clinic last year. GM was very gracious to both the auditors and riders.

If you are a rider, LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN.

If you are an auditor, bring pen and paper and be prepared to take notes - if GM could insist on this, he would.

Re your saddle - I wouldn't worry; he had quite a number of X-country folks and fox hunters in the clinic last year.

[Clive's Mom]

The number for Fox Chase? I can't find it in my desk and I wanted to audit this clinic.

Any other auditors? As with Joe Fargis - I'll bring my giant vat of coffee, you bring a blanket and coffee cup.

- C

[dmj]

Had a blast auditing the GM clinic at the Oaks last year. Being the supreme wimp that i am - I think I learned more by watching. I would be incredibly nervous if I were riding in it. Echo everyone elses' sentiments - LISTEN. Don't speak unless spoken to. Come to think of it, my own trainer demands the same.

Actually I though GM was hilarious. But he did really harp on this lady because she had this huge grin on her face the ENTIRE TIME. So frown I guess! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*Go Bruins*

[Clive's Mom]

Got the number and the website.

Check out www.foxchasefarm.net (http://www.foxchasefarm.net) for all the info on the GM clinic. It's pricey to audit, but I think well worth it for me.

- C

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmj:
Being the supreme wimp that i am - I think I learned more by watching. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're not the only one! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Part of GM's charm is that he always refers to himself as the biggest chicken (his words, btw)...then he goes on to talk about how one must overcome the fear. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ponymom138]

My daughter did the 3 ft clinic at Hunterdon last year.
#1 DO NOT BE LATE the only person who really got reamed out was the one that was about 5 mins late.

#2 Listen to and FOLLOW directions. Ask if you are not clear.

#3 Be prepared to answer any question no matter how trivial ( he even asked "what color is your horse") If you do not know the answer say so instead of rambling around... that annoyed him.

#4 I don't know what it's called but be prepared to reverse direction sort of doing a small half circle at the rail (someone help me here!) He was displeased with those that did not know how to execute properly.

#5 Be immaculately turned out! You and your horse and your tack should shine like nobody's business( as someone already said.. breeches, SHINY boots, and a close fitting top like a show shirt with a sweater, or a turtleneck with a sweater or closely fitted vest... no floppy sleeves.)

#6 be sure to arrive at your first day with a crop and spurs... even dummy spurs if your horse absolutly does not need them, he will tell you not to use your crop during that exercise if he feels your horse does not need it (he will have you "fake"it to insure that you understand proper movement for using the crop.) but have both!

I was surprised (after all I had heard) at how pleasant he was. You don't need to be overly friendly with him but a nod and smile if you cross paths is just common courtesy.( In fact after my daughter smiled at him in the parking lot after lunch he stopped to say "nice school today". That just has to help relax you for the next session.
At Hunterdon we found that each clinics fence height was actually a lot lower than the stated clinic height.... the 3 footer actually did about 2'6". This was our only complaint since my daughter felt she would've learned more at 3'6" but we were advised by someone to take a step down for the clinic.
If your horse is real problem you may luck out since that is who he hopped on to give a little "look what this guy can do" lesson. I bet those riders are still wishing their horses had stayed as nice as when they finished with GM!
Mostly try to HAVE FUN.
He is not an ogre, just a very talented man who wants you to get your money's worth.

[ponymom138]

The Hunterdon clinic was $450 not including stall fee unless you are shipping in ( and if you are shipping in BE EARLY , there are very specific parking areas and they may not be convenient and that way you avoid the humiliation of being late!)

[creseida]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Volte? I don't speak french!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A volte is a small circle, no more than 7 metres, used to focus the horse and to keep him from anticipating/rushing during flat work. It also assists in suppling & bending the horse and getting him off his inside shoulder and helps him balance.

What I do, I do for my horse, and thus I do for myself~me

[SBT]

(QUOTE:) I don't know what it's called but be prepared to reverse direction sort of doing a small half circle at the rail (someone help me here!) He was displeased with those that did not know how to execute properly.


Ponymom, that's called a "Half-turn"...you come out of a corner, turn your horse in and ride diagonally back to the rail so you change direction. If you do the same thing backwards, it's called a "Half-turn in reverse." This TOTALLY confused me in my first lesson, because I had NO idea what he was talking about when he asked for a half-turn! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Natrually, I figured it out REAL fast /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ponymom138:
The Hunterdon clinic was $450 not including stall fee unless you are shipping in <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ponymom, will you daughter ride in the clinic again this year?

BTW, in case anyone's wondering why the cost is much higher for the Hunterdon clinic, compare to Fox Chase...Hunterdon is a 3-day clinic.

[ccoronios]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But he did really harp on this lady because she had this huge grin on her face the ENTIRE TIME. So frown I guess! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I rode with him about a million years ago - believe it or not, it turned out to be a real ego boost. After we got over a few bumps.. One of which was the look on my face.... hair up under huntcap (which fit fine for shows - one round at a time but was causing a headache after 2 hours), looking into the sun....
No, I wouldn't suggest frowning......

[ponymom138]

Jane>

We have a new horse (as of 3 weeks ago). She is only 5 and still needs enough work that I think George wouldn't appreciate having her there. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[SBT]

because it's not WORKMANLIKE. Nor is talking to your horse (or yourself), for which I got picked on during one lesson. Luckily for me, George never heard what I was mumbling! I'll give you a hint...most of it was unprintable, and directed at HIM, because he was picking on the fact that I was not only a GIRL, but BLONDE! Not that I didn't ask for it, and it was all in good fun. Even my mom was laughing (out loud) at his comments! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif But they had the desired effect...I was so pissed that I quit riding backwards and WENT FORWARD to the jumps! Afterwards we all had a good laugh about it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Crude, but effective. I wish I'd had that one on video. He was in TOP form /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[AAJumper]

Hmmm...well, I'm blond, so I think I'll be skipping any GM clinics! I'd probably be too nervous to be effective anyway!

[SBT]

That was just to piss me off and get me to ride forward...He had said "GO FORWARD" about 10 times before stooping to the cheap shots. Like I said, it worked. In a way, it's cool that he'll do or say WHATEVER it takes to make you ride better. Basically, I was too worried about doing the wrong thing that I wasn't doing anything at all...and the psychological remedy was to take my mind off of worrying! It's like a scene from the movie Tin Cup: the golfer (Kevin Costner /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) is playing really badly because he's doing it in front of pros. So his caddy makes him take the change out of his right pocket and put it in the left one, then put his hat on backwards. He then hits a perfect shot, and asks, "What happened?" The caddy says, "Your BRAIN was getting in the way!" /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Like I said, crude but effective!

[Jane]

Did this take place at his Hunterdon clinic two years ago?

Ponymom: good luck with the new horse...maybe they'll make the clinic next year. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Gayle]

One of the things that I saw him do at the Foxchase clinic a few years ago with the 2'3-2'6 group was funny too. He had said to keep moving the line forward towards the gymnastic he had them doing and for the most part they kind of stood there until he told the next one to keep moving. On top of that they were kind of moving backwards to the first trot jump in. No matter how many times at first that he said trot on, and keep the line moving it seemed to have not effect. So he asked someone at the barn to get him a lunge whip and then said "and it isn't for the horses either"! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif What the participants didn't see was he turned to the gallery with a big grin and kind of winked. Needless to say everyone was moving after that. It definetly had the same effect of refocusing them on the task.

[Lisamarie8]

I'm an eventer, but have NEVER been one not to take advantage of an enormous opportunity. I would love to watch and learn.

If I was to Audit, which day should I chose...first or second?

--My most accommodating strength is my willingness to humiliate myself

[SBT]

...no, it was in a semi-private lesson 4 years ago! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Apparently this is a technique George uses pretty often. I myself have gone that route (but to a lesser extent) with a few of the lesson kids I taught last year. What I learned from the teaching experience is that if you can't release your frustrations in a theatrical manner, you'll just downright YELL and be mean, which I hate. I can't stand trainers who yell and bitch constantly. Contrary to some popular belief, GM isn't like that at all. But he does have that "projecting voice" down to a science! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Janet]

The only part of my equipment he took exception to was my crop!! Because it had a loop. He said the only reason to have a loop was if you are going cross country. He took my crop and had his foot in the loop, preparing to break the loop, until I said "Excuse me, that is the crop I DO use cross country". He looked as if he didn't believe me, but he did give it back. Tomorrow I will take one without a loop.

I would say about half of the group were eventers. The person he gave the hardest time to was Snowden Clarke.

He said I "fiddle" with my hands too much on the flat. (I don't feel it, but I admit I have noticed it on videos.) He also said I was gripping with my knees, so I worked on keeping my calves on and my knees off. Oh- and I am not allowed to "kick".

I did get complemented for "thinking" and for effective use of the crop.

[BarbB]

so glad you are posting a report.
So you survived the first day, huh?
More info please....
What did you do and what did he have people working on?
I have to "attend" this way....probably never see GM in Colorado.

BarbB


charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique

www.herbal-nutrition.net/members/Barbara (http://www.herbal-nutrition.net/members/Barbara)

[SBT]

...are a pet peeve of his! (sorry, one of us GM-seasoned people should have warned you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). Ditto the "kicking." The GM definition of "kicking" includes squeezing or nudging hard with the back of your heels. He wants you to use your WHOLE lower leg when you squeeze. (I figured this out the hard way in a lesson, too. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) The less you do with your hands, the better (not a problem for me, but a problem for another rider who shared a lesson with me.) Other than your crop incident, though, it sounds like you're doing well! (I personally have a short Beaufort jumping bat with a golf handle that I use for those lessons /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) Good for you for not letting him break yours! Good luck tomorrow...

Sara /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hey, I just hit 100 posts! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Should I be proud, or go get a life? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Janet]

(2'6" to 3') was much more exciting. (I was in the first group, 3'+).

Ther was one rider who was keeping her horse VERY MUCH between legs and hand. He kept wanting her to let her flow more forward, with less hand. When he wasn't happy with what she was doing, he got on the horse.

(I thought the rider was riding defensively, and was already wondering what it was the horse had up its sleeve, as it was otherwise going very well.)

He got on the horse, and set it up with a nice soft, forward approach. Turns out the horse has a "dirty stop" and GM hit the dirt. He was NOT amused.

[SBT]

*LOL* I would have been mad too...she could have at least warned him! Or explained WHY she wasn't letting the horse go forward. Not speaking up in a lesson or clinic, no matter WHO it's with, is a dangerous thing.

[Weatherford]

Thanks Janet for the laugh! Hope things go as well for you tomorrow - he should LOVE your auto release!

And in defense of the person who didn't warn him - it is very hard to tell someone of his caliber and reputation that maybe they are wrong. It could easily be taken the wrong way.

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He got on the horse, and set it up with a nice soft, forward approach. Turns out the horse has a "dirty stop" and GM hit the dirt. He was NOT amused.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif So what happened after that? I'm sure he got back on...but what did he say/do?

Sounds like you did well. One thing GM likes is a thinking rider! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Scarlet 1]

I audited yesterday, Janet was wonderful! I thought she was the best of the group. In the beginning I thought George was going to pick on her, but he quickly changed his tune, when he realized that her horse was well schooled and she was very responsive. Janet's horse is a great guy, very cute and reliable and Janet has a wonderful eye. Her horse may not have been as flashy as some of the others, but definatly the horse I would have like to have been on.

I was surprised by the type of horses that were enrolled in the clinic. There were a number of horses that were very hot, in some cases I even thought they were borderline "dangerous" to the others in the group. Some horses were just green, but relatively well behaved. A few horses/riders were clearly over their heads, and looked like they had not had a lot of professional lessons or support in the past.

PS George's fall was pretty ugly and he was pissed at the owner of the horse for not telling him that the horse had a "dirty" stop in her. In her defense he had not reacted well to comments in the clinic, so I am not sure I would have spoken up either.

[Sea Urchin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Janet:
I would say about half of the group were eventers. The person he gave the hardest time to was Snowden Clarke.


LOL - what was he ragging on Snowden about?

[Scarlet 1]

As Janet is probably in midst of clinic, I will take a first stab at a response. George does not like "busy" hands, as are very popular right now to get the horse in a frame. He said many wonderful things about Snowden's riding, but said that because he rode so many green horses, his seat and balance had become deep, in a defensive manner, versus getting up out of the saddle, in the motion and letting the horse carry the rider to the fence and letting the horse do the work.

[breezymeadow]

And please guys - this is truly just my own feeling & opinion, not a "bash".

I've probably read virtually everything Mr. Morris has printed, & just like every other trainer on this planet, there are aspects of his theories & methods that I agree with, & aspects that I disagree with.

While I agree that he has paid his dues & deserves a certain amount of respect as a professional, I DO NOT agree at all with what seems to be this hushed/tip-toe/afraid-to-talk/smile/comment attitude that seems to prevail in his clinics/lessons. I mean, he can't just politely give his opinion on crop loops - he must try to break someone's equipment without permission to make his point? And as for his "ugly" fall, while I certainly wouldn't wish that on anyone, if you're professional & competent enough to conduct high-priced clinics where you insist on hopping up on strange horses, you should be professional enough to politely endure all possible outcomes. I'm sure that poor rider was absolutely mortified, & Mr. Morris's anger didn't help. Perhaps it never occurred to her that her horse would misbehave under GM's expertise. It certainly wouldn't have to me. I would have a lot more respect for GM if he had simply explained the why's/wherefore's of what had happened without the ire.

Anyway - I'm sure Janet will enjoy her second day. I DO know that Mr. Morris has a lot to offer - just wish he could convey the knowledge differently! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Flash44]

When you are paying someone to teach, you should be quiet and listening, only speaking up when you are truly baffled. If they really didn't seem to want any comments whatsoever, I would not say anything at all.

However, if someone got on my horse and he had a nasty trick, I would say something diplomatic like, "Would you want me to let you know if my horse was a dirty stopper?"

Use the Force.

[Lucassb]

GM has a reputation for being intimidating. In my experience (limited to auditing) there are days when he is more so, and days when he is less so.

In the circumstance described above, I might say, "well, she has a habit of stopping and I am concerned that if I give her the flowing forward ride, I might end up in the dirt."

**********
To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

[Janet]

Music is no longer green (she's 15), and she neither has "great potential", nor major problems, so I don't get a lot of comments about her from most clinicians. (Of course, that still doesn't mean I can get 8 good fences in a row).

I wanted to take a clinic from someone who would actually tell me I was doing something wrong, and give me something to work on, which is what I got.

Today his major complaint on the flat was that my hands were too low. After I raised my hand, and periodically "threw away" my inside hand to demonstrate that she WAS on the outside rein, I stopped getting comments about my hands. In fact, later in the session, when he was talking about keeping the horse on the outside rein, he looked right at me and said "YOU know about keeping a horse on the outside rein". He also said nice things about my shoulder in.

Based on the comments early in the thread (that he wants to see a real difference between flat and jumping lengths), I set my "flat stirrups" 3 (Mon) or 4 (Tues) holes longer than my jumping stirrups. Today he made me shorten them back up to 3, and later said that there should only be one or two holes difference between flat work and jumoing. (When I was using the same saddle for jumping and dressage, I had 6 holes difference.)

As Blondie said, he had lots of positive, as well as negative comments to Snowden. Riding behind the motion because of working with greenies. fiddling with his hands. Using too much inside rein. Not having the horse in front of the leg.

The horse Snowden rode in the first session was nice enough, but the one he rode in the second session was GORGEOUS. GM said something to the effect that "that horse is your retirement."

At the end of the session he said we were "good students". He also said that "around here" we needed more "school work", but that some of the other places he teaches: "They need to do more of what you do, get out and ride across country."
Probably more layer.

[wannabegifted]

well, GM in the hunter world is like Bruce Davidson in eventing, I would definatly recommend it, just remember he is trying to make you a better rider, not dis you personaly!!! you need to keep that in the back of your mind and get as much out of it as you can. Do the level that you want to learn in! you wont learn much if you are not challenging yourself.

[Janet]

As I said, WANTED some criticism and things to work on. If he had given me only positive comments, it would be an ego boost, but wouldn't have been worth the price of the clinic.

However, I think the attention given to a loop on the crop (and I wasn't USING the loop) was a bit obsessive.

He was a LOT harder on some of the kids in the second group.

[Portia]

Janet, I hope you don't mind some questions from someone who is planning a clinic with a big name (Linda Allen).

Was the clinic full of riders each day?

How many riders total were there each day?

How many auditors were there?

Do you think the cost of riding and of auditing was reasonable?

You can e-mail me if you prefer, of course.

Thanks!

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Was the clinic full of riders each day?

How many riders total were there each day?

How many auditors were there?

Do you think the cost of riding and of auditing was reasonable?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There were 7 riders in the 3 foot plus section. There were a few more (maybe 10-12) in the second (2'6" to 3') section. I didn't stay for the third session (2'6").

There were more auditors on Monday than Tuesday. I think most of the ones on Tuesday were parents and coaches. He addressed a lot of his comments to the auditors to "you trainers". There were probably 20 auditors max (though I didn't actually count) at any one time.

Price ($375 for two 2 hour (PLUS) sessions) is pretty standard for a "big name" clinician. (We charged $300 for a two day clinic with Denny Emerson, and were filled way ahead of time).

The price for auditors (I think it was $60) seemed a bit high. Lots of the clinics around here are free to audit, up to about $25.

By the way, I think I read that Linda ALlen is giving a clinic at VHC. You might want to see what they are charging, etc.

[wannabegifted]

Sorry Janet I was just responding to your first post, I did not read the rest of the posts so I am not sure why the tone of your response is a bit.."flaming" If you did not intend it that way, I apologize, as always, it is hard to tell from writing the "aura" of the posts! LOL!

[Portia]

Thanks Janet. I appreciate it!

[Janet]

If, by "your first post" you actually mean my LAST post before yours. I was just trying to list the things I got out of the clinic- that I need to keep my hands higher and stiller, especially the inside one- that I need to keep more weight in my heels, keep my stirrups closer to my toes, and wrap my lower leg closer to the horse - that I need to not grip with my knees - that if I don't see a distance, I need to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT , even if it is wrong (unlike other instructors who have told me to "just wait" if I don't see anything).

This is more than I got (about ME) out of either the Mike Page or the Greg Best clinic, though I enjoyed both, and learned a lot from the exercises and comments on other riders.

[Coreene]

Even though I nearly froze to death. My biggest suggestion for auditors is to remember a cushion. My butt still throbs at the thought of sitting in the tiny bleachers last year.

But I will go for sure this year - though probably on Day 2 (want to see the difference between that and Day 1).

[wannabegifted]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
If, by "your first post" you actually mean my LAST post before yours. I was just trying to list the things I got out of the clinic- that I need to keep my hands higher and stiller, especially the inside one- that I need to keep more weight in my heels, keep my stirrups closer to my toes, and wrap my lower leg closer to the horse - that I need to not grip with my knees - that if I don't see a distance, I need to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT , even if it is wrong (unlike other instructors who have told me to "just wait" if I don't see anything).

This is more than I got (about ME) out of either the Mike Page or the Greg Best clinic, though I enjoyed both, and learned a lot from the exercises and comments on other riders.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JANET-

no, by the FIRST post, I ment the one that started the whole thread.

[Weatherford]

I think auditors should be free (or a small fee) - and ENCOURAGED to come - notices out to all the barns, the 4-H, the Pony Club, etc.

When I run clinics, I also usually try to get my clinician to offer a cut rate on one of two deserving juniors (by deserving, I mean talented kids who otherwise couldn't afford it.) When necessary, I've paid for these myself - or simply included it in the overhead costs.

I have never made money on a clinic - when our income has exceeded the costs, I have turned that over to the clinician - or (the easiest way) simply had the riders make out their checks directly to the clinician. That way, I am able to keep the fees down.

Most of the clinicians I've had prefer smaller groups - I think everyone gets more out of it, then.

[Janet]

No, my very first post was NOT intended to be "flaming". I seriously wanted to know "what I was letting myself in for".

Given: GM knows a lot, and has a lot to teach anyone.

Given: GM is known to be very opinionated, and has demostrated that he sometimes lets his opinions about appearances get in the way of his opinions on substance.

I wanted to make sure that my appearance (old eventing saddle with SUEDE (OMG) knee rolls, too short boots, etc) was not going to get in the way of him teaching, and my learning, on a substantive level.

In spite of starting off on the wrong foot, so's to speak, with the crop, it didn't.

[Janet]

GM definitely assumes you "know" a lot already. That was fine for me- he didn't ask anything I didn't know how to do- but was not a good assumption for some of the riders, especialy the juniors in the second class.

For instance, he asked for a shoulder in. About half the group were doing a "neck in" with an indirect rein. He SAID: "you should be using an opening rein, not an indirect rein", without further elaboration. If you haven't done it before, starting with an indirect rein "neck in" and switching to an opening rein, isn't going to produce an acceptable shoulder in. You need to know what to do with your legs and seat too. Even having read his book is not going to enable you to do it right.

Same with a half turn on the haunches.

Another thing where he was hard on the kids- consistency.

We did an exercise canering a circle with 2 rails on the ground. We were supposed to get 3 strides between tham. I got it right once, and then messed it up twice. He said:"You got it right once, I don't know why you can't get it right every time". I said: "I don't know either". He said: "That is your problem, not mine."

Being an analytical type, I thought about what I was doing, and was able to figure out how to fix it (taking a wider path).

But when one of the kids got 8 strides, and then 6, in what was supposed to be a 7 stride line, he made similar comments about consistency, and said that she "wasn't trying". She certainly appeared to me to be tyring, she just wasn't suceeeding.

Some of the other kids made the same mistake over and over, and there the comment about "not trying", or maybe "not trying HARD ENOUGH" might have been applicable.

He told one junior that she had "a nice horse but you are ruining him" after telling her to ride "leg to hand, not hand to leg" many times. I could understand his frustration, but I suspect taht his comment will simply make the rider tune him out, rather than taking him more seriously.

He told another kid: "If I tell you not to do something, you just don't do it. You don't need to know why." Again, I can understand the frustration, especially since that rider had challenged his instructions "not to do that" a couple of times. But,if you are going to be an educated rider, you DO need to know why.

Conversely, when I had a valid reason for doing something "different", he accepted it. I carry my crop on the left, while most had theirs on the right. He asked me if I was right or left handed. I said I was right handed, but I carry the crop in my left hand because she has a tendency to drift left. He said "that is a good reason" and didn't mention it again.

So, if you already "know a lot", have valid reasons for what you do, and are willing to at least try what he asks (if he had said "I want it on the right anyway", I would have switched it), then he is great. If you don't know a lot (at least everything that is in his book), if you are going to "second guess" him, or if you are not willing to try whatever he asks, then you are wasting your money and his time.

[Jo]

Janet, can you go into a bit more detail about doing something if you don't see a distance rather than just waiting? I was/am taught to ride the pace, not the distance, and if I don't see anything but the pace is there, the distance will find itself (in a nutshell). Just wondering if GM had any more thoughts about this. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Janet]

Not really much more to say.

He said: (in spite of the quotes this is a parphrase) "Most of the time you have a good eye, but this time you didn't see a distance and you just sat there . I don't care if you go for the long spot or the short one, but make a choice and go for it". And it wasn't THAT bad a distance. A bit close and a bit weak, but not bad enough to be a chip.

Like you, I was taught that, if I didn't see a distance, I should just maintain the pace, rhythm, and balance. But he obviously had a different opinion.

So, I tried to do what he said. The first time I got a "nothing" distance again, but the second time I got a strong jump from a deep spot (having decided "short is better than long").

[Weatherford]

Interesting - I have watched a lot of George's clinics & lessons and think perhaps he is far better with the educated and self-analytical riders than the uneducated ones. From what you say, Janet, my observation may be correct.

I know at many of the clinics I have watched, he asks for things like the shoulder in, always assuming the riders know how to do one correctly, and understand what it is. Both of which assumptions tend to be wrong, IMHO.

Funny thing about the distance issue - a friend of mine who rode with George for years, and still goes back to him as she lives close, could "never find a spot" and "has no eye" (that is quote a bunch of other people who know her well!) She left George to go ride with Joe Fargis, and he spent a lot of time telling her not to worry about the spot, worry about the impulsion, rhythm, and pace, and VOILA! She developed an eye!

Different things work for different people! Thanks for your great reports, Janet!

(Did he like your auto release? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

[Janet]

At the end, he had us go through the gymnastic (one to three to one) with an automatic release. His only comment to/about me was: "yes, she has it".

In fact, most of the riders in my group "had it".

[Flash44]

Do you think that if one was never taught to do a crest release, one would naturally develop an auto release? Maybe wait until the rider had good strong flatwork before starting them over fences?

Use the Force.

[Janet]

I don't think so.

But if you get "yelled at" by your instructor, or "stopped on" by your horse every time you catch your horse in the mouth, or drop contact, you eventually figure it out. And the "no hands" exercises definitely help.

What I feel sorry for are the horses we went through that learning process on. But mine, for instance, objected far more to being dropped than to balancing off the reins (I am not talking about being "left" but simply holding on to the reins for balance).

[AAJumper]

Janet, my horse is the exact same way...hates to have the reins thrown away in front of a jump. You can pull on her face in front of/at/over the jump all day long (not that I do) and she will keep going. But I have the bad habit of occasionally throwing away the reins at the last second when I see a really long distance. It's a guaranteed way to make her stop!

Anyway, I'm trying to now learn to do an automatic release, and it's not easy after many years of the crest release! I find it very hard to not lift my hands up (like going to the crest) over the fence. I tried learning it once before, but wasn't as dedicated...did the hands like you are holding a wheelbarrow thing, but ended up giving up. This time we've decided that my horse jumps in better form with that constant steady contact, so I'm going to try to learn the auto release again. I had one lesson with the upside down hands, and tried to keep a steady feel, and she jumped much better. But I still feel my hands going up...not resting on the neck, but I move them up. Any advice on how to learn to do the auto release?

[Janet]

I think there are two different issues in an "automatic" release. One is maintaining contact over the fence, and the other (once you have the first) is keeping a striaght line. If you look at my pictures over on the eventing board, you will see that I am much better at the first than the second.

Assuming that you have the base and support and the balance to start with, the best exercise(for me) for he first it to set up a shortline where I need to "add" (like 5 in a 4). I know I need to keep contact over the first fence to make it work.

As for the straight line, what works for me is to keep my hands well apart (like about 18 inches) so they are no where NEAR the neck.

[Chanda]

The easiest way to practice the auto release is to do it one hand at a time. Canter a vertical on a circle and follow with the inside hand and crest release the outside hand. Then do a figure 8 over the vertical switching which hand you follow with. Then try following with both.

It is really easy to get the hang of it this way. I can't even do a crest release anymore. I don't aways have a straight line from elbow to bit but I am always following.

[AAJumper]

Janet, that makes sense about the two different issues. I was able (even when I tried this before) to maintain contact without touching the neck. I had worked a ton on having a good base of support by riding in 2-point with no reins. My old horse was SO good at that! I'd tie the reins in a knot, lay them on his neck, and he'd trot or canter around on the rail! So I got the whole balancing w/out having reins down. I then progressed to jumping w/no reins and then used the upside down hand. Somewhere I let the whole thing slip and stopped focusing on it, and reverted back to the crest release.

So now I'm back to the upside down hand and can do the first part you mention...I don't need the neck for balance or anything. It's that darned straight line from elbow to bit that seems elusive. I think I may be doing the straight line when I am holding the reins upside down, but I'm not sure. I think I need a video so I can see myself. I'll try to keep the hands separated when I go back to holding my reins like normal. It's so hard to retrain yourself to not do something like lifting the hands!

Chanda, I've done what you mentioned before when practicing quick inside turns, but somehow, for me, it doesn't translate over to the straight line from elbow to bit...I revert to a broken line, even when not touching the neck.

[N&B&T]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Do you think that if one was never taught to do a crest release, one would naturally develop an auto release? Maybe wait until the rider had good strong flatwork before starting them over fences?

Use the Force.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a kid (I essentially started riding at fourteen, though I had lessons for a while at ten), I learned what is now termed an "auto release" from the very beginning.

In my first jumping lesson, for the first two x-rails I ever went over, I was told to grab mane; for the next two, I was told to just rest my hands on the horse's neck. After that, I was told to follow the movement of the head and neck (and mouth) with light contact as at a walk and canter.

However, I had what I realize now was a very strong base, very good balance, and a very relaxed and 'easy' seat (oh how I dearly wish I had these qualities now! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ), developed from riding without stirrups for 5 months (took them off the saddle) and riding bareback. In fact, I left the barn where I had been learning to ride for a year and a half with no jumping permitted (even cavaletti) so I could try jumping.

This is not to say that I was technically proficient because I was not! But Janet, I have to disagree and say, yes, it can be learned that way, if your seat etc. is good enough (not necessarily technical enough) on the flat.

Did I ever hit a horse in the mouth as a kid? Yes, twice that I can remember.

I think what people do with their hands becomes habit. Many of you talk about how hard it is to learn to follow; I find it difficult (though not quite as difficult) to rest my hands on the neck in a "crest release" although there are some times it comes fairly naturally. But I don't do much jumping.

[Janet]

I didn't say you couldn't learn an automatic release that way. In fact, that is also how I learned to ride. And I had been taking lessons for 4 years (I started when I was 6) before I was allowed to jump.

What I said was that you wouldn't AUTOMATICALLY learn it.

I still think it is easier WITHOUT the crest release first.

You may not have ever balanced on the reins, but plenty of kids did. I think the crest releas approach is probably easier on the sainted lesson horses, but not a better technique for the rider.

[N&B&T]

As a teenager, I was always envious of the kids who had been riding since six or eight or ten /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif but thinking back, it may be that being a little older and stronger is what made that process work OK for me.

I would say balancing off the reins means the seat etc. is a little too insecure to allow ease and success with an auto release /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (not that my opinion means that much /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ); but, as you describe, there is that sort of middle comfort zone. Of course, I agree that the crest release has a place, but was very surprised when I came back to riding close to five years ago (loooong years away /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) and saw how exclusively it was used and how early on many kids/people were started over fences.

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
But when one of the kids got 8 strides, and then 6, in what was supposed to be a 7 stride line, he made similar comments about consistency, and said that she "wasn't trying". She certainly appeared to me to be tyring, she just wasn't suceeeding.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a lot of respect for GM as a horseman, but this is one of those areas where I think he could be a much better clinician. If the point of the exercise is to learn to get the strides, generally that would go with an explanation (beforehand! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) of the different ways one might acheive the goal. If I were working with someone on this exercise who had flubbed it repeatedly, I would ask before the next attempt what the rider intended to do differently to make it happen this time.

I agree with your comment that he is much better with analytical, experienced riders -- which is why I'm surprised he would even offer to teach riders at 2'3" or 2'6".

I had this happen to me once in a clinic, where I simply couldn't figure out what the Big Name Guy wanted. I thought I had done it just right, and he yelled at me for not trying, but wouldn't tell me what I had done wrong. I think it's interesting that this person spends lots of time educating riders that horses always try, but sometimes they can't figure out what you are asking -- and yet he never realizes this can be equally applicable to riders.

[This message was edited by poltroon on Oct. 24, 2001 at 06:54 PM.]

[Colin]

Just REMEMBER that Mosby's is very close....call ahead for a double! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"If you can't beat 'em with brains, beat 'em with bullshit!"
- Tommy Serio, 2001

[Sparky22]

I would love to do a clinic with GM! He just has so much knowledge and experience, that even a couple of hours of sharing that with me would be great. I don't mind being critiqued and what-not, and have been judged by him several times (in open numerical scores...he usually scored me the highest), so I would love to hear what he has to say.

He is pretty big on the basics of riding...good hands, seat, legs...and I had a great trainer when I was young who helped me to learn these things early. I owe my early trainer so much...he instilled in me a love for the horses, the sport, and his exercises also helped to instill in me a sense of fearlessness that has helped me so much along the way. OK...that was a bit off-based...oh well!

By the way...do we have an auto-relase club around here?? We have so many others!

"Just when you thought something was idiot proof, they go and make a better idiot...damned evolution"

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NP Fisher:

However, I had what I realize now was a very strong base, very good balance, and a very relaxed and 'easy' seat (oh how I _dearly_ wish I had these qualities now! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ), developed from riding without stirrups for 5 months (took them off the saddle) and riding bareback. In fact, I left the barn where I had been learning to ride for a year and a half with no jumping permitted (even cavaletti) so I could try jumping.

This is not to say that I was technically proficient because I was not! But Janet, I have to disagree and say, yes, it can be learned that way, if your seat etc. is good enough (not necessarily technical enough) on the flat.

Did I ever hit a horse in the mouth as a kid? Yes, twice that I can remember.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I meant - have the rider develop a really secure seat and independent hands BEFORE teaching them to jump. I'm sure we've all seen novice riders who can barely keep their balance being schooled over fences and thank God they do a crest release. But if the rider has a good base and then learns to jump, he or she is less likely to get left, get tossed off balance, or jump ahead of the horse, and since he or she already has a soft feeling hand, he or she will naturally follow the horse's mouth over the jump. Especially if you let them start small and get the timing down before moving them up to bigger jumps that necessitate a big change in position.

Use the Force.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> By the way...do we have an auto-relase club around here?? We have so many others! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BEQS

[Bumpkin]

I believe this is the thread for Automatic Releases....

Automatic Releases (http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=691099205&f=602099205&m=5840941303)

[N&B&T]

That's what I was trying to convey /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and also that you don't need to be an "advanced" rider (which I think of as a very technically proficient rider) to use an "automatic release"...

But getting back to the topic /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif poltroon, very good points--in general, not just for clinics...

[stephanie]

janet (or anyone)...

I was interested to read your breaking down of the two issues with the automatic release--keeping the contact and keeping a straight line between hand and bit. It made me wonder, though, WHY we always say that the straight line is correct. why wouldn't it be equally correct to have soft contact over the fence with a broken line?

i assume it has something to do with keeping the bit angle not up or down, but I don't really understand why the straight line is so important, as long as the contact was consistent and soft... can anyone explain?

[Waterwatch]

OK, I'll bite. I have no idea what that means!!!!

(Sitting in the back of the classroom, raising her hand shakily).

/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"May the happiest days of your past be the saddest days of your future."

[Janet]

Check out this thread
What are you doing for BEQS? (http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=691099205&f=602099205&m=2383092203)

[BarbB]

Big Eq Sucks

there have been a couple of recent threads on the subject. The one Janet listed....there's another one with bylaws.....and there are a couple that started the whole movement. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BarbB


charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique

www.herbal-nutrition.net/members/Barbara (http://www.herbal-nutrition.net/members/Barbara)

[Nylar]

One of our pony riders went today to the GM clinic (sorry, don't remember exactly where it is!), and I'm talking to her on IM at the moment about how it went. She admits that he did scare her a little, but is VERY excited about it all, and has told me repeatedly now that he likes her pony. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Apparantly, GM thinks that Rocky would make a nice pony jumper, rather than the hunter that he is.

Of course, trying to get exact details of what she did is like pulling teeth, so if anyone was there, I'd love to know what kind of exercises were done.

"Technology is my friend, and sooner or later I will beat my friend into submission."

[Janet]

3 foot plus group

3 Poles on the ground laid out in a serpentine (S) first to be trotted and then cantered, with lead changes and 3 strides between each pole. (He stressed using outside leg ONLY for lead changes.)

Extend that serpentine by replacing the third pole by a low gate (well beyond the original third rail, so you had much more of an approach to it). hand gallop down long side and halt (on outside rein).

Trot gate (in middle of short side to nominal 5 strde line down the long side, but do it in 6. First fence is a vertical, second is an oxer with a recessed ground line. Halt in a straight line.

Canter the line the other way in 5.

Simple course. GAte to a triple bar at the end of a diagonal to the 5 stride line.

Then he sent us through the gymnastic (24' to 46' (IIRC) to 23'6". Several times.

The second day we did two poles set on a circle, again with 3 strides between.

Then the 6 and 5 stride line then a wierd shaped figure eight. Start along the rail. Pass the oxer. Cut in towards the center of the ring, jumping the single at an angle. Then turn right, towards the rail. Pass the vertical, and jump the oxer at an angle. Turn left toeards the rail, and so on. After he thought you had done it enough you got to circle and do it as a line.

Then some bending lines (a bit complicated to explain) in a course, ending with a VERY angled (say 60 degrees) one stride. The brown gate whcih formed the "in" had no ground line.

Then the gymnastic - the other way this time, short to long) working on automatic release.

The second session was similar, though they didn't do the "weird figure 8". They did another exercise, with two poles (together) and the gate on opposite ends of a 20 m circle. They went round and round, and then had to change direction across the middle of the circle. Many times.

Their bending lines were less bending, but they still had to jump the bending one stride. And they finished with the gymnatic, using an opening rein with one or the other hand to keep the horse striaght (and PREPARE for an automatic release, though he didn't say that).

[Nylar]

I'm sure my trainer will be using these exercises for those of us who didn't attend the clinic (my horse is NOT allowed out in public at the moment, it's funny to me but not my trainer /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), and I like to know what I'm in for.

Our rider would've been in the 2'6-3' group (or at least the one I know went, the only other one who would've been there was probably in the 3'+ group), and that's more the level of exercise my horse is capable of right now (although we'll probably have to dumb it down for him at first /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif He's such a weenie). Plus this gives me stuff to give to my instructor here at school as well, she likes to know what other people are doing, and we don't get to do clinics and such here, unfortunately.

"Technology is my friend, and sooner or later I will beat my friend into submission."

[dogchushu]

Nylar,

I think I saw your friends pony today (I audited the clinic). Was he a grey pony?

He really did like her pony. He went over to her after the clinic and said "give your pony a pat... give him another one... now give your pony a great big hug. You have a great pony and we don't appreciate the wonderful animals enough." He did say the pony would make a good jumper, but the way I interpreted it, he didn't mean that the pony wouldn't be a good hunter. He said that if your friend ever got tired of the hunters, the pony could easily do the jumpers. Just that she had a really great, versatile pony.

Let's see if I remember the exercises for her class (I wrote them down, but my notes are in my car).

The started out with lots of flatwork. Lots of transitions within and between gates with crosses through the diagonal. They did flatwork for the first hour.

Then they went through a series of three jumps set in a circle. The idea was to keep the horses quiet, slow and turning. They'd go around the circle several times in one direction, then cross through the circle center, turn with a flying change, and go the other direction. They finished this exercise with a hand gallop down the long side and a halt and back.

The next excercise was a line with a verticle to an oxer. It was an easy four stride for the horses, but the pony handled it just fine. I think they jumped this in both directions but I can't remember how many times. They had to continue straight from the line and ride their horses right up to the arena fence and halt (the idea was to work on keeping the horses from cutting in).

They proceeded to jump the verticle from the previous line, turn right and head over a huge log with a rail over it. This bothered a lot of the horses. The log was spooky enough and the jump was into the corner and away from the barn. They worked a long time on schooling the horses to go over that spooky jump.

Then they did a figure eight where they jumped the log on one loop, then turned and jumped a triple oxer. They had to do flying changes through the center of this figure 8.

They finished up by jumping the log (this time headed towards the barn), turning right, and jumping a little liverpool.

The liverpool got most of the horses. They did not want to get anywhere near that thing (could be alligators in there!). George was not happy about that and said no well trained horse should be afraid of something like that. (Nylar, your friends pony was very brave and jumped right over it. If I recall correctly, he was very brave about the spooky log too. He was just a brave little pony!)

I don't recall him making a big deal about releases in your friends class (they spent a lot of time on that liverpool) but he did in the under three feet group. He worked a lot with that group on getting a short crest release and not throwing the reins all the way up their horses necks. In the 3'6"+ group he worked a lot on getting the riders not to throw themselves all the way up their horses necks.

Overall, he wasn't nearly the ogre I expected. But I audited the class with a friend who'd ridden a clinic with him as a teenager years ago and she said he's mellowed a lot.

Oh, I think he broke the loops off of crops in each of the three sessions I saw. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif But everyone snickered when he did this as if they were expecting it. Could it be they're all reading this BB???

(BTW Nylar, if your friend is who I think she is, she rode very well. )

[VWScully]

Does anybody know if he ever comes (or planning to come) to Canada?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
I'd love to try one of his Clinics.

[SBT]

Janet, it also sounds like you did VERY well! Some of the points you mentioned rang true for me...for instance, holding the crop. After spending a year riding dressage, I got used to switching my stick when I switched direction, to keep it in my inside hand. My trainer had said to "keep it in your inside hand unless you need it somewhere else." (Consequently, I am TOTALLY ambidexterous with a crop! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) Anyway, when I automatically switched it in my first GM lesson, he told me not to do that. Later, when he was trying to figure out if I knew how to use it, he asked, "Do you carry the stick in your right or left hand?" I said, "Either." /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif NOT the answer he wanted, so he asked, "Are you left-handed or right-handed?" I said, "Right handed." He said, "Then put your stick in your right hand and leave it there." /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Essentially, every attempt I made to look competent was very quickly squashed flat. One time, I was waiting and waiting and waiting before a lesson (apparently punctuality is important for students, but not the maestro /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif), so I thought it would be cool if he found me hanging out by the ring watching Anne K. ride. Well! He found me and asked, "Are you ready for this lesson?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Then you're going to spit out your gum and go get on your horse!" (P.S...I found out he doesn't like it when you chew gum!)

The queen-mother-of-all-insults? At the end of one lesson, I decided I really wasn't happy with the last line I'd ridden, and thought it would sound nice and perfectionistic if I asked to try it again. So I asked, and got this answer (loud enough that everyone in the ring heard it, and the video picked it up): "No, he jumped enough. I'm not going to break him down just because you want to do it again." /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif (P.S...I learned that when he says you're done, you're DONE!) Anyway, when I show that video to people, I hit the STOP button BEFORE that little gem. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Yes, the man can be snippy and even downright nasty. But in my experience, it was never personal. The intimidation is part of the style of teaching he employs, and it WORKS. Essentially, it weeds out the people who don't want to listen up and work hard. At his level, deadbeat students are a HUGE waste of time. While you're screwing up and not listening, he could be teaching another rider who might really benefit from the lesson. It's all about self-respect, respect for the horse and respect for the sport. And to be totally fair, I got more compliments from him than I did insults, and actually a LOT of praise when I got things right. I can't explain what a HUGE ego boost it was to nail that figure-8 jumping exercise, complete with flying lead changes and tight rollbacks, and have GM in the middle of the ring yelling, "There! That's it!! There, YOU GOT IT!!!" /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Chanda]

Just curious but does anyone ride green horses in his clinics? Were there any horses that could not do flying changes? I would love to do a clinic with him at some point but my horse doesn't know how to do 'everything' yet. Would he hate that or would it be worth it to go anyways?

[Gayle]

When I audited the clinic with him a couple of years ago he said something about why he did the lower fence heights so that the pros could bring green horses to clinics. It was a nice theory but everyone in the lower fence height was a novice rider not a pro. While he is an outstanding clinician he definetly gets frustrated by the novice easily in some circumstances. I wanted to take my horse to a clinic like that with Joe Fargis and my horse wasn't finished yet either. She told me she was too green to get anything out of it. Don't know how accurate it is but could be a lot of wisdom in it.

[Weatherford]

I think Joe is good with the greenies. However, he does assume you know when your horse has done enough - and EXPECTS you to communicate that.

Joe's clinic center far more around the horse and are far quieter than George's, IMHO. You still work hard, but more on basics, basics, basics.

Different syle and very enjoyable.

[Janet]

There were several 5 and 6 year olds (horses) in the 3 foot plus group. Several times, GM asked "How old is that horse?" and presumably adjusted the exercise/comments accordingly.

I wouldn't bring a horse that had never done a flying change, but I wouldn't hesitate to bring one that was inconsistent. He'll just talk you through it: "JUST the outside leg. DON'T use the inside rein. DON'T turn his head. MORE OUTSIDE LEG."

But I WOULD hesitate to bring a horse that I couldn't adjust to get different numbers of strides.

There were a couple that tended to get hot in the line, and he had them halt between fences. But if the horse wasn't hot, but the rider couldn't get the right number of strides, he clearly got fed up.

[Janet]

GM also made it clear that he did not like the jointed stirrups. "I want to feel something SOLID when I put weight in the stirrup".

He also didn't like the 3-ring elevator used by one of the eventers: "If you MUST use it, you should have two reins so you can still use it as a simple snaffle." But after a few minutes he called her into the middle of the ring and said: "We are going to change it to a double twisted wire." I could see her face drop, as double twisted wires are commonly regarded as instruments of torture by eventers. But she held here tongue, and the horse DID go much better.

[C-Urchn]

The tape of the Jenkins, Morris, Branaman clinic.

There were Olympic-level riders taking instruction from George. Awesome.
Next time THAT trio does a clinic, we're going!

[Kelli]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:well.)

He got on the horse, and set it up with a nice soft, forward approach. Turns out the horse has a "dirty stop" and GM hit the dirt. He was NOT amused.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I bet GM was pissed! Hate to say, but I would of loved to have seen that!!!

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogchushu:


Oh, I think he broke the loops off of crops in each of the three sessions I saw. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was anyone brave enough to say, "You break it, you buy it?"

Use the Force.

[Nylar]

Yup, that was Tori and Rocky. This was Tori's first clinic (She's 13). Rocky's a doll, he packs her little sister around the Short Stirrup as well. The funny thing though, he's usually rather "looky" about stuff. He'll go over it, but it usually involves some strong riding on Tori's part. Obviously he knew it was a day to be good!

Thanks again for letting me know what kind of stuff they were doing!

"Technology is my friend, and sooner or later I will beat my friend into submission."

[Kelli]

for some reason I think that is a very dumb question, but on the other hand, I have never seen GM with any JR's at the ring. Matter of fact, I have really never seen GM at any finals with Jr's.

[brilyntrip]

believe any one is asking whether GM has jr students??? where have you been ?? In the 70 and 80 s GM's students won it all in every division.I think he has moved past all that taudry stuff. He has only jumper students and does clinic s I think.. Anyone ...correct me if I'm wrong...

[jSTR]

but he also has a lot of staff working for him, so maybe you don't see him at the ring CONSTANTLY, but he def. has students.
also (I'm sure someone can quote the AHSA (i'm sorry, MR BALCH, USAE!!oops!) rulebook on this one) but a judge cannot judge his/her own students, so that is why he's not mr eq-ringside guy b/c he's mr eq-judge's booth guy.

charter memeber, Thread Killers Anonymous
(yes, this means you should yell at me when my posts are too long, and bump threads that I kill)

[SBT]

...he has associates (including Chris K.) who pick up his at-home lessons.

As for the double-twisted wire, some people DO think they are horrible, evil bits...but I own one and have used it, and it's really not that bad. The twists are not sharp, and because there are 2, it remains the same thickness as a normal bit. You simply have more pressure points in the horse's mouth. I totally agree w/his objection to the 3-ring...I don't understand why people use them with just one rein on the top ring! Why not just use a regular loose-ring? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Bumpkin]

"The tape of the Jenkins, Morris, Branaman clinic"

Where does one get this tape? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Bored*]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
I totally agree w/his objection to the 3-ring...I don't understand why people use them with just one rein on the top ring! Why not just use a regular loose-ring? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because with it on the second or third ring it makes the horse drop at the poll, and (I think) is mostly used for horses that pull down and out. With it just on the snaffle part, it acts just like a regular snaffle with a little bit more leverage, and doesn't provide as much control as with it on the lower rings.

~Rachel~

*If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull* -Bart Simpson's Guide To Life

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumpkin:
"The tape of the Jenkins, Morris, Branaman clinic"

Where does one get this tape? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's called the Three Masters. It's a three video set, sold in most tack shops and catalogs (I believe for about $50 each). I haven't seen it....been meaning to rent it from the tack shop but it's always out.

[Wicky]

http://www.horseshow.com/training/btrc.html
You can get it directly through the BTRC, which gets the profits from the tapes. They are great!

[levremont]

one in the middle group and one in the last group, yesterday only ( where he made us jump a 4'9 vert.) My horse for the middle group I had only had for 3 days, young 17.3 7 yr old, doesn't do his changes, Georges got on him the first day, did good flat work, but did not know counter canter, figured it out very fast though. I don't see why not to ride a greener horse, if you are an accomplished rider, he was very good with me and my horses ( my second one is very broke). He seemed to really like working with young ones if they are riden by a rider who can teach them. I think he would love to have you and Chase.

[dogchushu]

Sallylou, you must have been on the big, gorgeous chesnut! I audited the first day. He's a nice horse and you rode him very well, especially for only having him for three days. And you were getting your changes. If I remember correctly, he was changing nicely through that figure eight log jump/triple exercise. Your horse is such a cutie. Whenever he'd figure out an exercise and realize "this is what I'm supposed to do" he'd give a little nicker! Cute, talented guy who seemed like he tried really hard. What do you plan to do with him?

I was really impressed with how quickly George figured out different horses and gave them different rides. In the first session, he rode a horse that was very nice but a bit playful. And George was very workmanlike "we must do our job now." On your horse, he seemed to be more encouraging and confidence building.

BTW, wasn't that farm GORGEOUS? I had such a good time, sitting in the warm sun, at a beautiful farm, on a clear day, watching pretty horses! Bliss bliss!

[levremont]

He is getting vetted on monday so I am keeping my fingers crossed, if all is well he will be my prelim jumper for a while and then for sale for a Am/O...he has a great willing attitude to everything in life.
The Krome's Farm is beautiful, I train with Kenny so I have been there quite a bit, you should see it in the spring and summer, they have beautiful flower gardens everywhere, and talk about pampered horses, they even get their stalls picked at 2 am.

[poltroon]

I had a great dream last night where I was taking private lessons with GM and he was nice to me! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyway, I haven't felt so good waking up in weeks. I feel ready to tackle anything! Thanks, George. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[SBT]

...you'll dream about the hot young guys walking around! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sara /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Janet]

For people reading the thread about this year's clinic.

[*Sunboom*]

Hey,have fun!wish I could do something like that it sounds like fun,don't worry you'll be fine!

*~Caitlin~*
*~Sun Salutation~*

*My pony is so polite,he always lets me go over the jump first!*