View Full Version : What's your biggest show turnout no-no?

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Dec. 20, 2000, 01:18 PM
Just poking the fire here... What types of turn-out faux pas have you seen at the shows? I once saw a girl at a (thankfully) schooling show who had those stupid "show bows" on her pony's braids... in RED!

Any other classics?

Dec. 20, 2000, 01:20 PM
Short boots...
Dirty tack...
Unclipped muzzle, jawline, ears and bridle paths...
Nylon tack LOL!!!...

This list could get long and I may offend some...so I will shut up...

Dec. 20, 2000, 01:23 PM
The show bow, with out a doubt.

Dementia 13
Dec. 20, 2000, 01:47 PM
Definite no-nos for A shows in the US:
show bows (blech)
too short or ill-fitting boots on a rider
poor braiding jobs
fuzzy ears, muzzles, jawline
dirty horse and/or tack
the European or eventing-style jackets with 4 front buttons and buttons on the back vent
sleeveless shirts!

I wouldn't be picky if I saw this stuff at schooling shows, though. I used to board near Frederick, MD and at our schooling shows, you'd see the gamut of wierd tack and clothing. Nothing wrong with that when you are first starting out, but by the time you get to the bigger shows, you should know what is/is not proper.

My friend showed her horse at Warrenton in a Wintec saddle with a string girth. She finally got a girth cover, though! Plus she almost ran over Mrs. Able-Smith in the schooling ring, but that is another story....

Dec. 20, 2000, 01:56 PM
Boots that are too short and any show shirt that doesn't have long sleeves! Also, hate to see bad clipping/braiding jobs...

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:06 PM
I admit I had to wear my trainers Vogels a month ago..ahhhhhhhhh they were too short!! I have custom boots that fit me like a glove and we were 2 hourse from home!!! I FORGOT MY BOOTS!! But I did the eq and was champion in adult eq...quess the judge didn't care..

Definately Show Bows
Messy uneven braids
a dirty grey horse with manure stains all over his butt!!
Unpainted feet!!! I always like a nice clean hoof!!
I had a grey and he ALWAYS got a bath the day before AND the morning of!!

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:08 PM
SHOW BOWS should most definitely be exiled, and those children that wear them must attend the VA clique clinic on how to arrange their hair into the proper "patties"!! hehe

Hmm other than that, uh ill throw another vote towards bad clip jobs, tails that look like they have been chopped of with pruning shears, and definitely Rubber boots eeek, such a faux pas!!

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:09 PM
Not using a hairnet. If you can dress yourself, you can use a net.

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:13 PM
Hair wisps flying from under the helmet!!!!

Stained gray horse or dirty white socks.

Leather out of the keepers!!!!

Twisted reins while riding!!!!

Show pad that doesn't fit.

Slouching in the line up!!(It's not over until you have exited the arena!)

Dirty, dusty boots.

Crusty sweat marks.

Not really a turn out issue, but related. People that sit all day, ringside, on their horses. As I just read somewhere, they are not a couch. Get off, give them a break.

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:20 PM

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:28 PM
Biggest no-no is got to be panty lines....SO TACKY

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:35 PM
Uh oh, we're back to pany lines again... Rye, see numerous thong-related threads.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:35 PM
Especially the ones that cost an arm and a leg, and /or are "custom made" (one year's tuition), and advertise as being approved when they are not. (Liars!)

When you see the "formal" 4 buttoned coats, the wearer is either European, an eventer or a real foxhunter. Sometimes they ride a lot better than the rest of us; sometimes not.

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:57 PM
This drives me insane! Please put your hair in a net and put ALL of it in your helmet!!! I just started doing some combined training this year, and while I love it, I seem to be the only one who has heard of a hair net around here. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:58 PM
What is the world are show bows? <You can tell I've spent too much times @ A shows> /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
My pet peeves for turnout:
- Coats that don't fit
- Clothes that don't fit or are un-fashionable
- Unclipped horses/ponies
- Dirty socks/grays
- Short boots
- *blech* Weird tack (nylon, etc.)
I'm gonna stop cuz I tend to get *very* cynical and I'd like to have friends on the board. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
*pOnY rOcK*
PS - Weatherford! /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif There's nothing wrong with kids in unapproved.

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:00 PM
My own personal pet peeve is no gloves! Please, please wear gloves!!!

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:04 PM
Rubber riding boots at smaller shows. Some people need to learn that they are for mucking stalls etc.. not horse shows!!!

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:07 PM
People who ride with the brim of their hunt cap up in the air, and it flops around their head.
I hate a brim that isn't parallel to the ground.

I also HATE stock pins, they show up from time to time, and I hate an unmonogrammed choker.

Can't tolerate watching a hunter round with a rider without blackgloves on it detracts from the overall picture.

White socks not clipped to the pink (yes I am anal).

Orange bridles on chestnut horses. They can be a little darker you know?

Dirty bits, with grass on the side, horse entering ring with green bubbles coming out of it's mouth.

Dressage whips instead of jumping bats!

Agh, that's enough for now!

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:08 PM
Oh my biggest pet peeve!

What is up with 1/2 the amateurs and kids riding with their spurs upside down?

IT MAKES ME CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:12 PM
Most of these things I understand, though I may not agree.

But what do you have against un-monogrammed chokers?

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:27 PM
But what about those that are like school horses or horses that live outside and keep their coats fuzzy or indoor horses that owners prefer to keep them fuzzy than blanketed?

"People in cars look
worse than they are,
people on horses look better than they are."
--The London Times

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:45 PM
1. Unclipped muzzles
2. Dirty socks/horse
3. Sleevless shirts
4. Ill-fitting jackets/boots
5. Hair not put up in a hair net (I am a perfectionist when it comes to hair, I will spend 5-10 minutes, literally, just doing my hair)
6. Tall boots on short sturrip riders! SS riders should have garder straps and little braids in their hair /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Tall boots are for bigger divisions
7. Bunched up saddle pads (whenver I get on a horse or teach a lesson, the saddle pads have to be perfect)....it drives me CRAZY!!!
Well thats some of them! I am a perfectionist!

Lord Helpus
Dec. 20, 2000, 03:58 PM
A braid job that is obfiously two or three days old makes me crazy. But, the biggie: a badly braided tail--the braid does not go down far enough, it gets loose and sags AND a tail job with the braided hair ends just looped back up and not either pinwheeled or pulled up through the tail braid. I HATE those long loops at the end of a badly braided tail!! I even dream about them!!!!

Dec. 20, 2000, 04:05 PM
I was looking at all of my pictures from a year ago and I felt so bad for my trainer!!! I looked HORRIBLE! LOL Short sleeve shirt...collar riding up...hair DOWN (not even a horrible show bow! Even though I have one of those...never wore it though)

Other things:
Rubber boots
Tall boots on kids (12 and under)
Green shirts with blue coats (and the like)
Wrinkled/stained shirts (even though I can be guilty of this...hey! I don't know how to iron!!! LOL)
Anything glitter

Thank you Langshaw! You have taught me well!

--Mimi (Sky too!)

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:12 PM
Since I come from eventing, my pet peeves are:

1)The wrong types of boots for xcnty.(i.e.
those p.c. boots.)
2)aweful and bad color taste
Okay so #3 should be first. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:20 PM
First, I have to say that I was definitely NOT at the show where skybound made all of the henious fashion crimes. I would NEVER let a kid that rode at the same barn as I did go in like that. I do remember when she got that hedious showbow though, and was all proud of it! I told her that it was going straight back to stateline as fast as her mom could burn the rubber!!! LOL

My Pet Peevs: (Warning they are extensive)

1. Show Bows
2. Helmet Covers (if you want to show, by a &#^$($ helmet)
3. Messy Manes. If braiding is not required it should be perfectly pulled and laying down on the RIGHT side!
4. Wispy hair.
5. Dirty white socks!
6. Ears that are clipped but still have the inner hair sticking out.
7. Sun bleached tails on bays.
8. Stock Pins. A plain collar w/no monogram is better than a stock pin any day!
9. Gloves w/holes in them.

Well, Iwon't go on any further, but you get the idea, I'm Anal!

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:25 PM
Someone mentioned people that ride in rubber boots should realize that they're for stalls not riding. WELL... We had a girl at the barn awhile back who rode and showed in Ariat's version of Wellington boots! Yeah they were black, not green, but they had the buckles at the sides and the lug sole and they flopped 4" under her knee! AUGH! And she showed in them up to the "C" rated shows! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Poor, poor, dear little child. Other turnout sins that she commited were showing at those same C shows in schooling tights, a weird cover (black but with a little print) over her green Troxel helmet, and before my trainer intervened, a show bow. All with those darn boots.

My pet peeves? The poorly fitting plastic helmets w/o the brims sitting so far back that they're just on the back of the head floppin' like a sunbonnet! And the black nylon harnesses that dangle down a foot or more. You CAN cut them and tuck them up with black bands! Umm, hair that isn't up in a hairnet or in pigtails on the little kids (ponytails and single braids are badddd!) And the people that just rest their helmet on their hair hanging down? I'm gone, I can't even look! Also, jackets w/ the velvet collars and gold buttons, HUGGGGGGEEEEEE dressage saddles in the hunter classes 3" too big for the kid, colored saddle pads in the hunters... I could go on.

Robby Johnson
Dec. 20, 2000, 05:28 PM
1. I hate to see a tail that isn't banged and pulled.
2. I hate cheap galloping boots - particularly the PVC ones.
3. A sunbleached horse of any shade.
4. Any neon or froo-froo XC color combination. I prefer conservative colors - but I want it all to match. Custom saddle pads and shirts/helmet covers are a must.
5. A clincher browband that has not been polished with Simichrome.
6. I, too, cannot abide by manes being braided on the left side of the neck.

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:29 PM
SHAVINGS IN THE TAIL!!!!!Argh that drives me nuts. Unshowsheened knotty tails are right up there. Dirty saddlepads, and the dang chokers that ride up...

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:31 PM
in addition......

inappropriate tack (ie black in a hunter class)

1/2 a$$ job grooming horse (green spots on greys, feathers around fetlocks, furry ears, unbraided or unpulled manes)

short boots, any shirt without long sleeves, ill fitting britches, dirty clothing & boots

inappropriate horse/rider combinations that endanger everyone on the show grounds.....

Dec. 20, 2000, 06:19 PM
Very moving post, Elizabeth. Where do you stand on hairnets?

Dec. 20, 2000, 06:27 PM
I understand your post 100%, but what makes me sad, is when I judge an unrecognized show, which is where you see this, the trainers there do not want to "release" their clients into the AHSA show world. They are continuously told it is about money, it is about politics, it is about push button horses, they never explain nicely, quietly, calmly all the things that make a well turned out rider and horse. Clipping and braiding and clean horses need not cost money. MOnogramming a collar cost the same as buying a stock pin. A hairnet is cheaper than a show bow.
So, although, once again, someone makes it about money, it need not be. It is about the day you found out what was appropriate that you became embarrassed. I have a client right now that did/wore all of that before me. It wasn't about money for him, it was about knowledge. I find it hard to believe that anyone that can afford to own and show a horse cant afford hairnets and appropriate attire. It is a trainers responsibility to educate ahead of time. I'd rather see a client miss 2 shows (at least 120 dollars in entries) and buy what is required to show. I think our jokes are "A" circuit jokes, not pre-adult and short stirrup new to riding divisions.

Dec. 20, 2000, 06:29 PM
Thank you, Jane. That could not have been better said. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 20, 2000, 06:29 PM
Amen, Elizabeth. What you said about ruining a happy girl's big moment is only too true; you took me back to my very first show. Borrowed everything (including brown-topped boots), a string girth and the whipper-in's horse, who doubled as a school pony. We won fourth and fifth in two pleasure classes, and went home SO proud...
In any case, there are definitely things I see that make me roll my eyes, but there are probably things I do that make other people roll THEIR eyes. Next time I start snickering to myself, I'll remember what you just said, and remember who I was, too.

Dec. 20, 2000, 06:30 PM
My new client now looks at his friends who show up at the rated shows he attends with me and is embarrassed. He admitted ahead of time he was not that type of kid (and he isn't), but it is difficult when you know it is the trainers fault not the person showing. He has since learned how to politely explain to them the differences by showing them examples of what is correct vs. incorrect, and as I have said many times, if it is all for fun, stay on a local circuit, why spend drug fees, AHSA membership fees, and braiding fees, etc etc. I think there is just a time in horseshowing where changes must be made!

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:04 PM
Ick -- I'd never send my hunter unbraided (mane and tail)to the ring, no matter how small the show. I'm so anal about grooming that my trainer wants to hit me in the head with a stick. I guess showing QHs all those years gave me bad habits. I also think putting some sort of pin on a choker looks tacky. Either monomgram it or leave it plain.

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:07 PM
Oh, one more -- HUGE diamond earrings and big tennis bracelets on hunter riders. It's supposed to all about being understated, remember?

Royal Blue
Dec. 20, 2000, 07:21 PM
My greenie has only shown once (flat class at a schooling show). I am increibly anal about his turnout as is my trainer. The problem is he is deathly afraid of clippers! I have tried to work to get him used to them but no go, & forget a twitch he will take down the barn if you try. Oh scissors also don't work nor do ravors, so any suggestions will help. So do I show him fuzzy or I have no clue. Please help.

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:31 PM
It sounds like he knows how to avoid the twitch.
He has to learn how to cope with being clipped.
I would use an upper lip chain, over his gums, once you have that you can clip or proceed to put on twitch much easier this way, and then remove lip chain. I have NEVER owned a horse I can't clip. Sometimes it is what they hate most that makes them respect you and allow themselves to be clipped. A last resort is putting them into a horse trailer, have a good chain around the nose, don't hook them in, but get a stool and have someone hold the lead shank while you clip. They can't run backwards, nor can they go "up".
Also, clipping at midnight to 2 a.m. is easier. They are always quieter. That is when I body clip. Your worst case scenario is using domosedan.

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:35 PM
One thing that bugs me is ill-fitting saddle pads. That is an important one for me.
I also agree with everyone on the show bows, YUK!

J. Turner
Dec. 20, 2000, 08:35 PM
Which post is Elizabeth's? I don't see one ...

Ditto, everybody. Especially Jane's sentiment that good turnout need not be costly.

1)hairnets are cheap
2) saddle soap is cheap
3) so is shoe polish
4) a tailor can take in even an inexpensive coat
5) cheap jod boots cost the same as some rubber boots
6) garters are cheap
7) you don't need even clippers to do most trimming ... does anyone know of any hunters whose muzzles don't get clipped? Missy Clark's Natasha virutally had a beard.
8) elbow grease is the cheapest of all

- Jane, do you think that skin-shaved white socks lose that sparkle and brilliance? (yeah I know they get dirty easily)

Dec. 20, 2000, 09:21 PM
"This drives me insane! Please put your hair in a net and put ALL of it in your helmet!!!"

Doesn't work for some of us--my hair is well below waist length. It simply won't *fit* in a helmet.

Dec. 20, 2000, 09:38 PM
Natasha was known as the bearded lady because she hated clippers.

Black Market Radio
Dec. 20, 2000, 09:54 PM
If you saw the nasty ear infections I have seen and heard about, you wouldn't clip the ears either. The hair in their ears is there for a reason, it keeps out dirt, grime and helps block infection. Maybe if you left the ears hairy you wouldn't need ear plugs? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:58 AM
I have 3 fashion/turn-out no-no's:
1. So it's hot, the management says you can remove your huntcoat... but NEVER take off your choker and unbutton the top few buttons of your shirt! Why not just gallop the course in your sports bra?

2. Shadbelly coats at a "B" or county circuit show. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif A trainer out here actually rode in a little hunter stakes class at a county show in her shadbelly! It was so out of place, it was painful to watch. Sure, the premium said, "No braiding, please", but apparently that meant shadbellies were fine.

3. Numbers pinned to the back of huntcoats. Auggh! I don't care how small a show, use a string! I mean, people, pull the laces out of your tennis shoes if you have to, but please, no safety pins!

... And ditto on the ostentatious tennis bracelets, chunky diamond earrings, and the showbow.

Dec. 21, 2000, 04:15 AM
What really bugs me is when jackets are waiver and trainers make their 6 year old kids wear their jackets in 90 degree weather with 100% humidity for the leadline division at a schooling show!!

I'm all for clean and proper turnout and respect for the judge but come on, can you say brain damage!!

BTW my kid was champion that day...without her jacket!

Dec. 21, 2000, 04:25 AM
I can't say I disagree - I hate the look of show bows. But everything I've ever read about approved helmets says do not put your hair under the helmet because it changes the fit and makes it less safe - even if you buy the helmet specifically to fit with your hair up.

Personally, I've got to say that bad braids are by biggest pet peeve. At un-rated shows, I don't care. Those shows are designed for people to learn, so I would never be upset by something like that there. But trust me - I am not especially good with my hands, and if I can learn to do nice braids, anyone with 10 fingers can. Practice, practice, practice.

Dec. 21, 2000, 04:57 AM
Some really great posts here. I can shed some light on the tennis bracelet and earing thing. It is for the hunters and is supposed to be a sign of "statis". It used to be the size of the earings but you can only put so big on the ears and you have to do something else....LOL

I have a couple of my on Pet Peeves that have not been mentioned.

A horse that has no reason in the world to where boots ankle or open front in the eq. classes. (Conformation will always give that away)

Poorly fitted saddle for horse and rider. I will branch this out to include all tack. And please, I wish people would learn where these things go.

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:06 AM
DIRTY BOOTS! Worse yet, dusty. Grab a rag after you finish schooling and dust them off for the love of ***! And how much effort does it take to put on a decent coat of polish and shine. I do both my boots with paste wax, then brush with a soft brush and finish off with a coat of liquid black wax. They shine like glass and continue to do so (barring contact with puddles/mud) for at least a week with a quick swipe with a soft rag after riding.

Other one: Dirty horse. Look like you deserve to be there.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:07 AM
another vote for messy hair or showbows.

Braiding with rubber bands, every mane that I have seen done looks like crap.

not making the effort to clean your horse and look neat.

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:26 AM
"Oh my biggest pet peeve!
What is up with 1/2 the amateurs and kids riding with their spurs upside down?"-

Jane- I thought that was illegal? Maybe just dressage. COME ON PEOPLE!

My list:
1. Show Bows
2. Big Huge stock pins
3. Bad Braids
4. Messy hair
5. Pinned numbers

Oh, and the worst - I've been to 2 combined tests now - makes me an expet, eh?

The numbers we get are these huge 2 sided things that tie on your sides. They are made for a freaking linebacker. The shoulders fall all over. They look ugly and unelegant for dressage, and I'm sure the distraction of the shoulder string slipping adds to the safety of cross country.
I wish they just used little number badges on the bridle or something.

Oh yeah, one more - this is for the hunter ring - showing in one of those square quilted pads, or an ill-fitting shaped pad. Hello, pads aren't that expensive. Buy a nice one, and save it for shows.

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:37 AM
I have huge issues with people who don't put their hair up properly. if its long enough to cover your ears than you can do it right. ears sticking out, plus those nasty flyaways are sooo unattractive

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:54 AM
Kids in full dress boots. Kids are kids and IMHO they should be in jodphurs and garters.

Those "French" or lace braids - you know, the ones that loop down the neck. They used to be popular but not as much anymore (thank gawd).

Horses with banged tails in a hunter ring - please save those blunt tails for the dressage arena.

Rubber boots - eeeewwwwww!

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Oh, one more -- HUGE diamond earrings and big tennis bracelets on hunter riders. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I admit...I am obsessed with my big CZ studs and my silver tennis bracelets...I feel naked without them...

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:16 AM
Martingales tied in a knot for the under saddle class! It is the epitome of laziness.....

Van Teal
Dec. 21, 2000, 06:20 AM
Back to them, What is with this new trend to put 2 inch spurs on children on thier ponies? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Horses with banged tails in a hunter ring - please save those blunt tails for the dressage arena. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is a little difficult to "Save it" for the dressage ring if the horse is competing in both disciplines.

And it is even HARDER to make the top part of the tail "acceptable" for both disciplines".

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But everything I've ever read about approved helmets says do not put your hair under the helmet because it changes the fit and makes it less safe - even if you buy the helmet pecifically to fit with your hair up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I asked about this on another thread, and our resident safety expert, Dru, said that it is OK to where your hair up, as long as you buy the helmet to fit that way.

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:47 AM
Canter's really anal turnout no-no's (picky-picky)

unoiled hooves
dirty/upsidedown/overlarge spurs - nylon spur straps
stirrup leather ends that aren't doubled back
sweat stains of any kind
any mud/dirt on boots and soles
dirty stirrup irons
crops/bats with tape, frays
tack stains on saddlepads
braids that have twisted
imperfectly braided tails
Jackets whose sleeves do not hit exactly on the wrist bone
earrings other than diamonds or pearls or keepers
dirty sweaty faces - people & horses
dusty tack - esp sweaty, slick reins
improperly clipped horses
clients whose watches are either too big or improperly fastened. One lady i know was about to enter the ring when she cried to the ring steward, "Wait! My Rolex has come undone" /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:53 AM
Hmmm, well I have to agree with an earlier poster - an ill-fitting saddle pad is pretty atrocious.

And I like the idea that a neat turn out is cheap - it really is, as many have pointed out.

I agree with Jane on the monogrammed choker - does present a neater, more finished look. The only exception might be some of the more dramatic Van Teal collars - some don't lend themselves to a monogram.

And as a person who used to show halter horses (albeit only sparingly), I used to be a demon with the clippers (40 blades are YOUR friend!) Now I have a horse with inhalent allergies, and one of the things I do to help him out is to not trim his muzzle. Not my favorite look, but a much nicer look than a head toss! And (I justify to myself), I doubt the judge can see it from his position, and we don't jog for conformation. But still, I always get well-meaning people who tell me I "forgot" his muzzle, even though the rest of him is trimmed within a gnat's eyelash of perfection /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Oh, and the worst - I've been to 2 combined tests now - makes me an expet, eh?

The numbers we get are these huge 2 sided things that tie on your sides. They are made for afreaking linebacker. The shoulders fall all over. They look ugly and unelegant for dressage, and I'm sure the distraction of the shoulder string slipping adds to the safety of cross country. I wish they just used little number badges on the bridle or something. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wel, since that is determined by the management, and not by the rider, it puts it in a different category form the other no-nos.

It is customary, at least around here, to use bridle numbers for combined tests, and for dressage and staduim at horse trials. Pinneys (that is what they are called) are normally only used for CC. Anything smaller would be impossible for the jump judges to read as you gallop through- even pinneys can be hard to read.

Pinneys are expensive, and it is possible that the show management found, after they bought the pinneys, that they couldn't afford bridle numbers as well.

Unfortunately, pinney's only come in one size, even though they are worn by everyone from little kids to 200+ lb men. The trick is to loop the shoulder strings and tie them in a (quick release) knot to make them an appropriate length for YOUR body.

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:11 AM
I used to tell my students that if they thought they were going into the ring without gloves, they might as well take off their breeches, too.

Along with that, most of what everyone else has said, which basically relates to cleanliness and pride.

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:17 AM
Jane -- I have to admit that I've told my daughter that the judge probably couldn't see the monogram on collar and not to worry whether she had one or not. She doesn't wear pins, just plain collars unless the monogrammer is at the show where we buy the shirt and can do it quickly. We seem to have a problem with losing collars before they've even been monogrammed.

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I guess showing QHs all those years gave me bad habits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, in some fashion and some schooling habits, perhaps, but I have not been reticent about telling people that I didn't know what a well-groomed horse WAS until I started showing Aps. I started a Pony Club in SC - so I knew what "healthy clean" was.

I do think it's a little silly to stand at the ingate, holding up the class, to put hoof goo on - the stuff's a dirt magnet, for goodness sake - who's going to be impressed after the second step in the ring?

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:27 AM
i must admit, i have a bunch of chokers i never got around to monogramming... didn't realize i was commiting a serious fashion faux pas.

but i want to know, too, what's a show bow?

and i know this is pretty trendy, so doesn't qualify as a no-no, but it makes me crazy how the juniors (and some amateurs) wear their harnesses so loose they're like 3 inches below the chin. i think it looks silly, not to mention ineffective...

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>quote:
Horses with banged tails in a hunter ring - please
save those blunt tails for the dressage arena.

It is a little difficult to "Save it" for the dressage ring if the horse is competing in both disciplines.

And it is even HARDER to make the top part of the tail "acceptable" for both disciplines".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My old TB hunter had sort of a self-Irish-pulled tail - it just grew (or not) that way and didn't get much longer.
But beyond that, I find it difficult to comprehend that, if your appearance is neat, clean and workmanlike, a judge has TIME to take in such minute details as whether your horse's tail is banged or tapered and whether it's pulled or loose. Perhaps if these details are their priority, this is what is causing so many questions about the JUDGING!!!!
And I find the extremely full, dragging on the ground tails a whole lot more foolish looking than a pulled and banged tail!

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:36 AM
As long as it is neat and clean, I can tolerate any attire -- except, of course, unapproved "hats."

Dementia 13
Dec. 21, 2000, 07:48 AM
I just wanted to make a clarifying comment to my earlier post. I don't think this thread was put up to insult people or to be mean-spirited; it was just to point out some of the things that are no-nos at the bigger shows.

Certain things that are fine at small shows are not appropriate at A shows, that is a fact. And a dirty horse and dirty tack are never appropriate at either, in my opinion.

Now I feel bad...

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:53 AM
I mean, that is so gross...why would anyone want to do that? They should know better. Helmet or not riding sans attire is NOT appropriate..ever... /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:16 AM
I thought I was kind of anal in what I would consider acceptable for showing or not... but geez! some of the things ya'll list make me wonder. I mean really, monograms? Come on... what iota of difference does it make in the riding of a horse.

Anyway... now that I've vented that... here are my major peeves (from eventing):

--colored anything in showjumping (including saddle pads, helmet covers, boots, reins)
--messy hair in dressage
--hair that covers the pinny when galloping (put it up so the volunteer can see the number!)
--people riding either jumping phase with some bit like a gag AND with a crop and spurs (make up your friggin' mind)
--people who don't put the needs of the horse first

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Now I feel bad... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't!!! What would happen to me if I decided to feel bad for every mean-Urchin thing I have said here...sheesh...chin up...big smiles!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:45 AM
1. Show Bows or messy hair
2. Braided mane but not tail
3. short sleeved or sleeve-less show shirts
4.the extra stirupp leather flapping around (cut it off)
5.polo wraps in eq classes (borrow some boots)

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:48 AM
Training level eventer said: I mean really, monograms? Come on... what iota of difference does it make in the riding of a horse.

A monogram is a tiny part of the entire picture. However, taking the time to make everything look "right" (hair over ears in nets, belt, monogrammed choker correctly fastened and tight, gleaming horse and tack, etc. etc.) shows respect for yourself, the trainer you represent, your horse, and the judge. Turning myself and the horse out to the nines makes me ride better because I know that I am prepared. In that way, the issues of turnout posted by the more traditional hunter riders on this thread DO influence one's performance.

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:53 AM
Things that drive me nuts:):
1) Show bows
2) Helmet covers
3) poorly fitting boots
4) Expensive open fronts on horses in the 2'6" eq classes. If your horse needs them to jump 2'6", you have bigger problems than just trying to win your class
5) sleeveless shirts
6) those "fancy" silver spur straps
7) bad hair job under helmet. Your hair must be neatly in a hairnet under your helmet. If it is too long, then cut it-any sort of braid, bun, etc is inappropriate. It just takes practice to do it right
8) stock pins
9) We used to get those western/saddleseat/breed show numbers that hook on the back of your jacket. yuck. I would cut mine up and run a string though it. I got fined $10 at every show but it was worth every penny to not wear those things:)
10) Shavings in the tail
11) A chewed up tail-hot oil treatments and tying it up for a few months works wonders!
12) Fuzzy unclipped horses
13) Dirty tack!!! If I see one more crusty bit and scummy martingale at a show, I might go insane!!

Ok that's all I can think of right now. I have obviously worked for a few grooming nazis in my short life:)

Just My Style
Dec. 21, 2000, 10:09 AM
1) Saddle pads that are too big
2) Little kids on great big horses
3) Great big kids on little ponies
4) Pony kids under 12 in high boots
5) Big long plastic riding crops (you know the ones with the big hand loop)
6) Light tack on a dark horse
7) Saddles that squeek when the rider posts on the flat. OIL YOUR TACK!!
8) Reins so stiff (once again, not oiled) that the loop has a mind of it's own
9) I don't know if this is still popular in the equitation. It was when I was a junior... white polos on a solid horse. Hello, your horse is solid. You can't fool anyone into thinking that it has socks!!
10) Trainers/ riders that make a class wait due to conflict. If you can't flat for 5 seconds with out your trainer stapled to the side of the ring, then you shouldn't be at the show.

Whew. That was exhausting!

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Riding without clothes on I mean, that is so gross...why would anyone want to do that? They should know better. Helmet or not riding sans
attire is NOT appropriate..ever...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I was trying to impress upon the little darlings was that one looks as naked without gloves as one would look without breeches. A different era - I'm lucky none of them chose to rebel and see if I was serious.

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 9) We used to get those western/saddleseat/breed show numbers that hook on the back of your jacket. yuck. I would cut mine up and run a string though it. I got fined $10 at every show but it was worth every penny to not wear those things:) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call me old fashioned, but I consider the "number with a piece of string" really tacky, and associate them with 4H shows. The round numbers that hook on the back of your jacket are, in my opinion, both more attractive and more convenient.

When did "real" hunter shows start using the pieces of string?

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:46 AM
I guess they started using black string pre-1980...My first leadline picture (when I was two in '80) has a my number being held on by string....

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:54 AM
I'm with VT - can't remember a non-string moment in rated hunter shows. And I have to say, a string number stays neatly in place (and of course, you can feed the string through your buttonhole to make it even neater).

But most importantly, it doesn't fly off in a gust of wind, as I distinctly recall a "hook" number doing in a QH unrecognized show with some o/f classes! However, since before that, it was going "whappity-bang" on the back of my head/neck, so it was kind of a relief when we finally departed company.

B.G.M. heidi
Dec. 21, 2000, 10:56 AM
How many of the listed faux pas and pet peeves listed by many of you have, truly, anything to do with horsemanship, safety, and rider ability?

While I understand that most of you are only expressing personal opinions, I have read these posts and find myself wondering, who cares? Many of you vow fidelity to some vaunted tradition - when in reality many of the observations smack more of conceit and the propagation of a sense of elitism within the sport.

Case in point,there is a young girl who shows A circuit Jr/Am. jumpers in Ontario. Her horse is a huge clyde cross, not a de rigeur warmblood. Her jackets are overly large and clearly hand-me-downs; her boots are off-the-shelf, not custom; she doesn't show in TS's; she doesn't sit in a Childeric saddle and her parents tow to and from shows in an old trailer and even older truck. When she trots into the ring, you can sense and overhear the general derision among 'those who fit in'. From children and adults alike, comments fly about her jacket, boots, etc., etc. I actually asked one snide commentator why, given that the horse was well turned out and she was clearly a strong rider, they gave a flying you-know-what that she wasn't shod in custom Vogels. "Because it's just not right and doesn't show respect to either the horse or the tradition of the sport". I think she showed great respect for the horse by winning the class not to mention a subsequent GP against pros. She was 15. Rather than acknowledging the girl's obvious talent and accomplishments, there remained many dissenters who undermined her victory because she wasn't turned out according to some artificial, and petty code-of-turnout.

Frankly, I'm pretty baffled by many of the posts and as an act of dissent and rebellion, will show one day in a purple saddle, paddock boots, orange jumper reins, pigtails, and striped helmet cover.

Dec. 21, 2000, 11:02 AM
Go Heidi! Let me know when, and I'll be there to cheer you on!

Cinco de Mayo
Dec. 21, 2000, 11:03 AM
Jumpers and hunters are VASTLY different.

Cinco de Mayo
Dec. 21, 2000, 11:11 AM
The differences can be good, because some folks can get away with showing in huge shows w/o adhering to "the norm."

My personal largest pet peeve is a junior rider yelling at or disrespecting their parent or trainer, no matter how they or their pony are turned out. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 11:19 AM
I can't stand obnoxious know it all's, jealous bitter freaks, people with inferiority complexes, spoiled dumb unintelligent people who wouldn't know style or class because they think such things are bought!!!!! I can't stand trainers who win a little and think there all that....Guess what your a dime a dozen so sit your A@# down!! I hate brats who smack gum and pout their little chicken lips, hardly anyone,except a lucky few!!!, can pull off the french pout so don't!!

Dec. 21, 2000, 11:21 AM
heidi, I think you must borrow Worthy's Little Mermaid sneakers to complete the outfit. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 11:24 AM
Some turnout faux pas are dangerous. our turnout was derived from hunt clothes which were worn primarily for function, fashion being a distant second.

Stock pins on chokers are dangerous. If you fall, you risk punturing your throat which can be suprisingly serious. Stock pins are meant to worn under the neck high on the chest on a stock tie where they hold down the ends.

Loose hair can cause massive injury to one's eye by abrading and even scratching the cornia. This can cause blindness. Hairnets will prevent this.

Rubber boots often have rubber soles and heels which are not as sturdy as the the heel on leather boots meaning they cannot prevent the foot from slipping through the stirrup as effectively.

Dementia 13
Dec. 21, 2000, 11:27 AM
Heidi, this subject will always be a source of contention and strong debate. I for one, am guilty of the large saddlepad sin in jumper classes.

However, to imply that we are elitist snobs because we express our opinions on this subject is going a bit far, don't you think?

BTW, I found that most of the responses had to do with clean tack, a clean horse and tidy hair, none of which cost very much money. I really don't recall any that said "Anyone who doesn't show in a Butet, and who doesn't bring their personal groom clearly shouldn't be showing..."


Dec. 21, 2000, 11:32 AM
Numbers on a string: It used to be you shifted your number around during flat classes so the judge could always see it. At least, I read that in a _old_ book. A pinned or hooked number wouldn't slide.

Gloves: Here's my favorite quote, atribution lost,"You wouldn't wear gloves to play the piano."

Glory be on anybody with guts to get out there and show /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and I'm glad to be a jumper.

Dec. 21, 2000, 11:46 AM
You and NeverTime are my soulmates. Good for you! I pulled my post from last night b/c I just did not want to deal with the flames, but you, chickie, are much braver than I am. YAY!! I totally, totally agree with you. I am contemplating building a shrine to you on my desk here at work.

When you, with your tan (GASP!), non-TS breeches/britches, your sleeveless (OH NO!) shirt WITHOUT the monogrammed collar, and your rubber, too-short boots, clean-up in the ring because you can RIDE your well-trained and well-cared-for horse fabulously (what a NOVEL thought!), can I please please carry your trophy to your rusty (but safe) truck and old (but safe) trailer without the dressing room?

And when the people who intimated last night that I was making this "about money" return to flame you (and, presumably, me!), we can wave our cheap crops with the loopy handles at them to scare them away. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 11:47 AM
Anne wrote "A monogram is a tiny part of the entire picture. However, taking the time to make everything look "right" (hair over ears in nets, belt, monogrammed choker correctly fastened and tight, gleaming horse and tack, etc. etc.) shows respect for yourself, the trainer you represent, your horse, and the judge. Turning myself and the horse out to the nines makes me ride better because I know that I am prepared. In that way, the issues of turnout posted by the more traditional hunter riders on this thread DO influence one's performance. "

I have absolutely no problem with this explanation. I think I misstated my position. I agree... turn out to the nines DOES influence your ride (at least psychologically). However, what I dont' understand is why the exceptionally nit-picky items. I consider turned out to the nine as being exceptionally clean, well groomed, tidy, and neat. What color my shirt is... whether or not it has a monogram... whether or not my horse has the "in" pair of boot or I'm wearing TSs... that to me makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. And I find it baffling that it does to so many people.

BTW, someone a while ago mentioned that one of their peeves was when jackets are waived and people take off the choker and unbutton the shirt. Hate to tell you, but if jackets are waived in Eventing for either dressage or show jumping, you CANNOT wear neckware (you must, however, have sleeves on your shirt).

Dec. 21, 2000, 11:52 AM
Elizabeth, did you read my post concerning safety? Rubber boots are simply not as safe as boots with solid heels.

Before we all go pointing fingers shouting, "Elitist, elitist!", think about the safety concerns involved.

While many opinions expressed here are what we personally like to see and what we don't, some of these things are dangerous to wear (or not wear) when riding.

Dec. 21, 2000, 11:58 AM
First of all, I would like to say that I do not think anyone meant to create a class competition here. Riding is very expensive and time consuming and loved by those who are active in it. As with any sport or competition there are various levels.
Within these levels their are certain norms,styles, acceptances, etc.

It is very difficult on a board like this because we have so many levels represented. Obviosuly someone who loves riding but never shows may not care that their boots are too low, however someone who rides in the Medal/Maclay will of course wear the clothes that will help make them as competitive as possible, after all turnout is a part of showing.


Dec. 21, 2000, 12:03 PM
The rules are different in hunters, jumpers and eventing. For example, in the hunters, there is no rule against neckware, but there is against figure 8 nosebands.

Personally, I have NEVER shown without a jacket. They may be waived, but I have it on for literally five minutes. If for some unforseen reason, I DID show without a jacket, I would have on a long-sleeved shirt with all the buttons fastened and choker in place. Because it is the neatest and most presentable.

I am trying to determine how being neat, clean and prepared to show is somehow elitist. Being appropriately turned out is part of the whole picture. It is no different than being appropriately attired for a social function. If a guest shows up at an evening wedding in jeans and a T shirt, I am sorry. It is NOT appropriate.

[This message was edited by Twister on Dec. 21, 2000 at 03:14 PM.]

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:03 PM
Well said, Moesha! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Robby Johnson
Dec. 21, 2000, 12:05 PM

I would just point out (re: gag snaffles) that, if you're going to use a lot of bit, you must back it up with spur/crop. The purpose of a stronger bit is to be able to ride the horse more forward.

Now, I almost posted that my pet peeve for s/j was Novice horses going in gags with 2 reins. But then I did Champagne Run this summer in a Baucher Waterford which, to me, was much more bit than my regular snaffles.

I totally agree with you about people who don't take care of their horses first. Nothing annoys me more than to see a competitor at an event leave their horse(s) up in the stall the entire time and only taking them out when they're going to ride them. I handwalk at least 2x per day, sometimes more!


Dec. 21, 2000, 12:08 PM
Very well said Moesha...Different levels of competition ask for different levels of turnout.

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:09 PM
Thanks! and I completely agree with the safety issue! 100% on target!! When do you all leave for Wellington?

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:13 PM
Actually, Slugger, the opposite is true.

A single, uniform piece of bonded rubber will generally maintain its integrity when 140 pounds of an adult rider pushes into his/her heels. A heel nailed onto custom boots as a separate piece is less likely to maintain its integrity under abnormal force, and the heel can, potentially, be pushed off the nails and ripped off the soles of the boot, allowing the foot to slip through the stirrup. If the sole of the fancy boot is leather, the risk of the heel ripping off the sole foundation is even greater, because leather is easier to rip through once it is disrupted or "violated" (in layman's terms, once you start a rip in leather, it is easier to continue ripping through it).

Thus, because the rubber heels are not nailed on, they are safer.

Of course, jumphigh83 will likely tell us that that is why we should use emergency release stirrups, and that is why we love jumphigh83 . . . .

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:19 PM
I stopped showing from about 71-81, and then I only showed at unrecognized shows until recently. I guess I assumed that the only reason they were using string numbers was because they were "little" shows. Only recently did I realize that big shows used them too.

I don't think I EVER had a hook number blow off (especially if you bend the hook to make it tighter) but I have often had the string numbers tear at the holes and fall off. Especially if it rains.

And every time I take my jacket off and on I have to untie the string (which means taking off my gloves first). Then I have to find a safe palce to put the string number where it won't blow away. When I am am ready to dress again, I have to find the number, find the string, which has almost certainly fallen out, and tie it (which means messing with the gloves again).

The hook number just stays attached to the coat, and I don't have to worry about it.

I understand the advantage of moving it to the side in a flat class, but, to me, that is FAR outweighed by the other disadvantages.

Color me unconvinced of the merits of string numbers.

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:21 PM
I'm in Wellington now! I'll return to the frozen north for the holidays then come back the first week of January.

Your post earlier really summed up this [beginning]argument quite quite well. Thank you for recognizing the safety issues that come along with some of the less traditional items that people choose to wear, or not wear, at shows.

What are your winter plans?

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Then I have to find a safe palce to put the
string number where it won't blow away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

we call this place the horse's neck /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:33 PM
I treid to email you? I'm not sure if you got it?? I am so up in the air!! Tons of new things at work and I'm always rushing to get research done, I wonder why?? Anyway I might just ride this winter and do a show here or there only a few A's with jumpers here anyway, several people have alreadt gone down to Wellington from my barn and opened their houses and gotten their horses settled, even the ones skipping the Littlewood shows. Even writing about staying north worries me, heated indoor or not I know I willl loose it next week and pack over night and leave for Fl!!!!! I hope all is well and that things are going well for you.

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:34 PM
If you circle the strings through the holes one extra time, it stays on much better and won't slide around.

I too am insane about my hair!!!

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:36 PM
This may sound weird - But when you run the string of your number through the second button hole of your jacket- it creates a very smooth siloheutte on the rider - not to mention - if you are not very well endowed (i.e. me) - it makes you looks a bit more bustful. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:45 PM
Twister... at what point did I say the word elitist? The problem I see is what constitutes "appropriate". Hell, I can't keep up with what is and what is not appropriate in hunters. Those things change too d@mn fast for me. And again... things like TS or not, what difference does it make? On the monogram thing (again), if the rest of the presentation is neat and tidy, what difference does it make? Perhaps that person doesn't like their initials! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Robby, thanks for the info on teh gag with spurs. I guess I've just seen too many people riding around in that kind of setup that are essentially riding the gas and brake at the same time. Just drives me crazy!

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:51 PM
My e-mail is listed. I haven't gotten any mail from you /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif , please try again! I would love to hear from you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:56 PM
I recently judged an NCEL adult horse show.

I will tell you this, its the over all picture that matters. I could not tell you who wasn't wearing TS, or a 350.00 jacket, or custom boots.

I could tell you whose hair was sticking out and who wasn't wearing gloves. (And there was a show bow).

It doesn't cost a fortune to wear an appropriate looking riding get up. There are lots of second hand stores that sell the "right" clothes for significantly less. I just bought a Grand Prix jacket in Middleburg for 50 bucks, not 350 bucks.

If you don't know what to wear, and truthfully there is no hand book, go to an A show and check out what people are wearing. Copy what they are wearing. A judge can't tell the difference between funky green TS and funky green Miller's, especially if you are galloping like you should be! Buy a used shirt, so what if it isn't your monogram?

Where is that asbestos suit.....

Dec. 21, 2000, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> it makes you looks a bit more bustful. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For me, that is yet ANOTHER strike AGAINST the string numbers.

Dec. 21, 2000, 01:05 PM
Looking nice can be inexpensive.
I recently bought a nice, well fitted jacket for $110.00. You can get nice breeches for around the same price. My shirt was $22.00, a choker monogram was $7.00 at the mall.
Boots are more expensive - go semi-custom if off the shelf doesn't fit (or look for used).
I'd say @$600-$700 would buy you show clothes that would last years if well taken care of, and not worn for schooling. My breeches are 10 yo, boots 10 yo, new jacket (my old show coat - still nice - walked off with a member of my IHSA team).
So, I read this once in a book - if you can't afford the proper clothes, take the money you would spend on showing and put it towards new show clothes.
Nobody needs Tailored Sportsmans, Van Teals, or Grand Prix's, BUT everyone needs a well fitted coat, well fitted boots and breeches, a riding shirt, gloves, and a helmet (and hairnet). And I've seen plenty wothout.
Sorry so long - I just got back from the dentist, and with what they are charging me for a bridge, I could buy Vogels, 3 pairs of Tailored sportsmans, a Grand Prix coat, and a VanTeal for every day of the week, and still be able to buy every BBer a new hairnet!

Dec. 21, 2000, 01:08 PM
Posted by Janet = For me, that is yet ANOTHER strike AGAINST the string numbers.

That's pretty funny!!!

Dec. 21, 2000, 01:26 PM
Sorry, TLE, when I got to the last part, it was a general post in response to those who thought appropriate was elitist. It wasn't directed at you. I should have posted more carefully, since you were in my subject line.

Hunter stuff doesn't change that quickly. Just like some people always have to have the latest gadget, some folks have to have the latest show ring fashions. The last jacket I bought new was in 1987 and I still wear it. I AM, however, about to break down and buy new custom boots. I am still wearing my 1979 models and they are both too short and worn out. I DO think that rubber boots have no place in the show ring.
I think a lot of the posts have been personal pet peeves more than examples of incorrect turn out. For example, I think you should have a pinwheel on the end of your horse's tail braid. Anything else, to me, looks unfinished. Now, it matters not one bit how the end of my horse's tail is braided, but I hate the other look, so it drives me crazy.

Robby Johnson
Dec. 21, 2000, 01:32 PM
Would likely put us in the dirt if we were running and gunning at the same time, right?! LOL!


Dec. 21, 2000, 01:43 PM
I read your original post that you deleted. It was amazing, touching, AND accurate. I am sick of the snooty tootie attitudes about attire...that is why I posted (with sarcasm!!!) the post about it being tacky to ride naked. GET OVER YOURSELVES people. Not everyone can afford OR WANTS custom this or that !!!!!! I have MY priorities elsewhere. My son was NATIONAL pony jumper champion in (GASP!) a 15 dollar NYLON hunt coat and 95 dollar off the rack boots! He rode in a USED Prix de Nations (200$) and his pony was several commas short of a "fancy pony"!!!!!!!!! I HATE it when these posts get so focused on what doesn't EVEN MATTER in the long run!!!! These micro kids in their tails and custom skin tight calf skin boots and the monogrammed choakers on the 150 dollar blouse (A HUNDRED+ DOLLARS FOR A COTTON BLOUSE?????) I don't know ANY judge that makes a note on his card that says "no TS" or "bubble head hat". That is just NOT EVER going to happen. Anyone see Kiley Jo Johnson when she first started WINNING Grands prix???? Bubble head hat, polyester coat, QUARTER HORSE in a (gasp) WESTERN BIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT, she beat the pants off the snootie tooties and they got to look at her polyester riding clothes from a new perspective...HER BACK! AAARRRGGGHH>This subject ,makes me crazy!! No wonder we are percieved as elitist snobs....Show me a rider in jeans and polo wraps for half chaps but don't show me fashion plate that has no concept of which end of the horse eats the hay!!!! Beauty is skin deep...UGLY gose right to the bone! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 01:50 PM
Unbraided horses at one day A shows.

Dec. 21, 2000, 01:50 PM
I have seen your son show many times at many different horseshows. He always looks neat and tidy. I think that's the point many are trying to make- being turned out well isn't about what brand you wear or how much it cost, being turned out well is looking neat and clean for the show ring.

BTW, your son rides quite well. Congrats to you and he on the national champonship.

Dec. 21, 2000, 01:55 PM
jumphigh83, I love you

(But what freakin' took ya so long to swoop down to my rescue?) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Black Market Radio
Dec. 21, 2000, 02:01 PM
I REALLY hope that one day, if the time comes and I am put in that position, my monogrammed choker will save my life! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(Really guys, I am joking!)

But I do agree with Heidi.

Saftey is a must, but petty is not.

Dec. 21, 2000, 02:02 PM
Poor sportsmanship and People who make snap judgments on appearances! This goes for any day, any where.

A girl who rides at my barn has the most gorgeous long blond hair down to her waist. It does not fit under a helmet. She wears a hair net and a show bow, and you really don't notice it in the ring since she is a lovely rider.

I think a clean horse and rider who are well mannered and appropriately trained for the level at which they are showing is most important.

Black Market Radio
Dec. 21, 2000, 02:02 PM
I also find it interesting that not one person has addressed the issue of ear infections stemming from clipping the insides of the ears. Now THAT is safety for you. I guess no one cares about that huh? Or do the ear plugs protect their ears? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 02:05 PM

As one of those anal hair people, I bet I could get her hair up in a helmet.

It would all be about parting it and looping it around and around and around....

Black Market Radio
Dec. 21, 2000, 02:06 PM
And I would not cut my hair so it fits under my helmet if that were the case. I like my hair long, and I regretted it the day my friend went scissor happy on me!

Dec. 21, 2000, 02:09 PM
It does get chilly in the North! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif If you change your mind and come down, please drop me a line! We'll have drinks /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , and maybe do some shopping for new stirrups. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Good luck this winter regardless!

Dec. 21, 2000, 02:11 PM
I cannot stand peoples hair in a pony tail and not under their hat, I also HATE show bow things. They can really start to annoy me. .

Dec. 21, 2000, 02:26 PM
I went through the entire thread of over 110 posts. There wer

3 posts indicating a specific brand was important

6 posts indicating a distaste for too short boots

So less than ten per cent of the posts were about anything that would require more money to fix.

There were also a couple posts indicating distaste for a show of wealth in wearing diamonds and a post indicating dislike for the silver tipped spur straps, which also cost more money.

There were several posts of dislike for sleeveless or short-sleeved shirts. This is not a money issue...

The remaining posts were about neatness. For example, a properly fitting saddle pad is no more expensive than the too large one.

So, those of you on a tear about elitism, why???

Dec. 21, 2000, 02:29 PM
Devildog, Ihave always trimmed out the ears of horses who live inside. No ear infection.

My lesson horses lived outside, so the hair inside their ears was trimmed flush with the edges of their ear. No ear infection.

Dec. 21, 2000, 02:50 PM
You do NOT have to buy a pair of $800+ custom Vogels for your boots to fit, even if you have long legs. Nor do you even need semi-customs. What you need to do if you have short boots and are even shorter on money is go to a good consignment store and browse through the selection of used boots. Many, many people will consign their used customs. Found a lovely pair of tall Dehners for $65 at one place!! And that will be perfectly sufficient. The recent trend of the ultra-high Spanish tops that go 2" above your kneecap is really artificial looking. All you need is a pair of boots that will bump the back of your knee, and you can get them used!

So indicating that one needs taller boots doesn't smack of elitism. You can get a used pair of tall boots for the same price as some new Devon Aires if you shop around.

Dec. 21, 2000, 03:34 PM
I am in WPB January 24th-31st, maybe we can meet?

As far as rubber boots go. Leather and horses go together, it is one of the reasons why our tack is leather. Rubber is not horse friendly. You will BURN a hole in your horses side with your rubber boots, and he will be pink skinned underneath on those 100� days. Really.

I continuously tell my clients what the words "HORSE SHOW" means. Horse show, competition, the best of the best, being a winner, getting a ribbon. What part of the word horse show do people not understand?

Jumpers? Well, no, sophisticated turnout is less important, the beauty and the art of the sport are not being judged. The athletism of the horse and rider are demonstrated against a clock and a
calculator of faults.

Hunters and Eq? Beauty, gracefulness, a picture, harmony, unison, being one with the horse over a course of obstacles or in an under saddle class.

I never said TS, Vogel, Butet (Ah, all my favs by the way). It wont make you win or lose, but it may make you more comfortable and these particular brands may last longer, and fit better etc. No one starts with this, but by the time you are showing in a 3'6" ANY DIVISION you have not just gone out for the day and spent 80 dollars for fun to see how you did. YOu are fully integrated into the sport and competition and you bet your bottom dollar you want to be as slick as you can be.

If you are in the lead line ring you need not have custom Vogels or monogrammed chokerrs.

FOr the people asking about the monograms.. This occurred when the stock pins phased out due to safety issues YEARS ago. First monogramed round gold pins were used, then gradually the chokers went to monograms. It just makes a picture complete! SOme of my riders have bought used monogram collars that they liked with someone elses name/initials! My daughter has her name
in script DEVON with a snaffle bit underneath.
Her shirt was in a sales bin for $5 and the monogram cost a whole $7.50 still cost less than the leadline class and she can wear that shirt all season! Her Grand Prix size 4 jacket cost me a whole $50 in the other used bin at a tack shop and her $150 paddock boots were $25 in another store. Hand me downs go from barn to barn also.

Orphan boots can be found at Bevals cheaply.
Used saddles are MUCH better for children, they are safer, not new ones. $200 used is so much better than a $200 new cheap one, the used one cost $800 originally!

And, I can't wait to see my child in the pony hunter divisions in a USED shadbelly, I just love the way they look (sorry)!

ANd by the way, when she debuts on her $100,000 medium pony in 6 years, remember here today, that I bought that pony when it was a weanling medium for under $5000 please!

Dec. 21, 2000, 03:36 PM
DMK? you put the number around the horses neck?
Hmm, up here in the north (compared to you) we tied it around the martingale. Must be a NOrth/South difference. We also tie around a button how bout you? Doens't brake when sliding that number around for the judge to see in the hack!

Dec. 21, 2000, 03:36 PM
<<Personally, I have NEVER shown without a jacket. They may be waived, but I have it on for literally five minutes. If for some unforseen reason, I DID show without a jacket, I would have on a long-sleeved shirt with all the buttons fastened and choker in place. Because it is the neatest and most presentable.>>

I agree! Even if they waive jackets, my trainer still makes us wear them unless it's like 120 degrees. You throw the jacket on before you get it in the ring and take it off as soon as you get out, probably a max of 3 1/2 minutes. And we ALWAYS HAVE to wear it for the Eq, no matter what! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Dec. 21, 2000, 03:39 PM
Sorry but Women who are larger than king kong who wear see through no sleeve riding shirts and are covered in sweat with NO BRA!!!!!!!!!!!

Men who wear see through riding pants with NO UNDERWEAR!!!!!!!

I have seen both and moved to Milan for two months to recover!

Dec. 21, 2000, 03:44 PM
1. Grungy, too small, or too large saddle pads.
2. Chokers with stock pins! *blech* How gross? And don't most shirts come with two chokers, my Van Teals and Essex shirts did. Get one monogrammed and save the other so the next person who gets the shirt has one!
3. Sleevless shirts or short-sleeve shirts
4. Silver tipped spurs! My trainer told me to wear his <his large was being naughty @ a show> and I just couldn't do it, I hate those things! I ended up buying new ones @ the show... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
*pOnY rOcK*

Dec. 21, 2000, 03:54 PM
I get very frustrated with the posts that blame people that are anal for being elitist or making people spend more money. As has been said about a million times in this thread, neatness does not equal money. If you have the money, buy the best, if you do not, don't. But, please try to keep in mind style when doing so. Money does not equal taste, and I have seen many $400 GP coats that I hated, and a $100 Pytchley that I loved. Personnaly, I do ride in Tailored Sportsmen, Essex shirts and a GP coat. I do own a Butet (graduation present /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) I also save every penny to buy the aforementioned items. You can ask any one who knows me, I am the most anal person about being neat and having etiquite (sp?) in the show ring. And guess what.... it shows!!! I have had trainers and judges that I don't even know complement me on my turnout. Judges do notice. So please bathe your horse, put your hair up (w/hair net), have neat braids, wear a belt, get a saddle pad that fits, and look your best! That is what you are there to do, so do it!

Dec. 21, 2000, 04:00 PM
<<You can ask any one who knows me, I am the most anal person about being neat and having etiquite [sp?) in the show ring. >>

*sigh* What would we do without you Anna?

--Mimi (Sky too!)

Dec. 21, 2000, 04:21 PM
I certainly don't object to people telling my to be "neat and tidy". What I object to is them telling me to be "neat and tidy IN A PARTICULAR WAY".

For instance -
Long hair that is braided and folded under and in a hairnet is JUST AS neat and tidy as long hair that is forced to fit inside the helmet, probably neater, but is considered a no-no.

A banged tail is just as neat and tidy as a tapered tail, but is considered a no-no.

Shortish boots are just as neat and tidy as tall ones, but considered a no-no.

Non-monogrammed chokers are just as neat and tidy as monogrammed ones, but considered a no-no.

Clean (but not oiled) hooves are just as neat and tidy as oiled ones (probably neater because the dirt doesn't stick, and healthier too) but considered a no-no.

A shirt and tie isi just as neat and tidy as a ratcatcher and chker, but is a no-no.

A single vented jacket, or one with 4 buttons instead of three, is just as neat and tidy as a double vented jacket with 3 buttons, but they are no-nos.

A white ratcatcher is just as neat and tidy as a colored one. A black jacket is just as near and tidy as a navy blue one, and so on.

You claim it is about "neat and tidy" but it isn't- it is about "because I say so" or "because THEY say so".

Everybody is entitled to their own "standards" but don't say that all you are asking for is "neat and tidy", and then say that non-monogrammed chokers are a no-no.

[This message was edited by Janet on Dec. 21, 2000 at 07:40 PM.]

B.G.M. heidi
Dec. 21, 2000, 04:47 PM
Many of you, adults and juniors alike, work hard to finance riding and showing. That you have Butets, TS's, and GP jackets really isn't the point. At the end of the day, you are all consumers and how and on what you choose to spend your hard-earned money isn't the point.

Here are the explicit points:

1. You have what you do and that's wonderful.

Don't denigrate, however, the appearance, achievements, and victories of those who lack what you have. As recounted in my original post, I've witnessed it repeatedly - not at a singular show but several. That a fifteen year old child wins a modified GP against seasoned pros is a wonderful victory and testimony to the girl's achievements. It is, however,DISGUSTING, when others cannot get beyond her boots to applaud her well-earned victory. At times like this, I am ashamed to be a participant in the sport.

2. Agree absolutely that horse/rider should be neat and tidy. Even better if the horse is fit, healthy and drug-free. Much of what's been posted though isn't about neat, healthy horse/rider turnout. They're petty details/complaints which have absolutely no relevance to what I think would be the primary concern - the health and success of the horse/rider combination.

Personally speaking, our horses have always been shown by pros - should they elect to show in rust breeches and purple show jacket, gripping mauve reins, I couldn't care less. Why do you?

3. At what point do we, as riders, trainers and owners start exercising mature judgement, question arbitrary and capricious 'trends', and ask that simple and fundamental question, "why?", in response to vaunted traditions and, what I perceive to be, conformity.

We are a sport populated by lemmings and conformists - for all the wrong reasons. And you know what, there are many, many people (trainers, grooms, tack/apparel manufacturers, breeders, show organizers) who count on our unquestioning conformity to use, abuse, and exploit us and our horses.

4. The sport IS elitist. My husband and I (and as result,our children) are members of that elite, if only by virtue of financial fortune. Either recognize that fundamental reality or strive to change the perception of the sport among civilians.

And why are so many of you so offended when I use that word? Clearly the word 'elitist' has assumed the semantic and social baggage of 'feminist'. Well, guess what, in its present state, the sport ain't a populist one.

The next time we all sit around on this BB,though, and moan about the lack of sponsorship and corporate/broadcasting support for the sport, I'd encourage all those who express offence at my post to question why.

If I'm wrong, I'm more than happy to read your thoughts/opinions. If you're having a reflexive reaction to what you perceive to be a personal attack, as someone else posted, get over yourself.

Dec. 21, 2000, 04:49 PM
Years ago at schooling shows some other girls at the barn I rode at and I used to make pom-poms out of yarn and braid them into our horse's manes. We'd color coordinate them. LOL!!!! Of course we were youngsters then but at the time we thought it was sooooo cool!! You wouldn't catch me DEAD on a horse with those things now. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Happy riding and keep it in the saddle. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:01 PM
I think certain British riders beat your pros to it. Spectators will assume your horses are sponsored by Virtual Village /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

B.G.M. heidi
Dec. 21, 2000, 05:07 PM
Indeedy Astraled, I love the British team's purple jackets. Very flamboyant and unexpected. Perhaps I'll have to go on a hunt for a turqoise jacket.

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:47 PM
I don't show, I don't want to show. I have to admit that I have been exceedingly puzzled about the minute details that seem to go into show appearance. Neat and tidy, that's one thing. One right way and the rest are wrong is quite another.

I cannot say anything more than heidi and janet have said. I couldn't say it better, and don't see any sense repeating the words in "lesser" terms. It seems to me that we need to go back to good riding, and not worry so much about pretty pictures.

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:17 PM
Thank you Slugger for your kind words about Billy. I agree with you Janet. Neat and tidy is an absolute but haute coture (sp?) is NOT needed to be a good, effective, well presented rider. Most of what is "in" is a result of clever marketing, making the kids "think" they want this or that product. With all the talk of 'be your own person', you would think they would not be happy in the cookie cutter world of fads in fashion. Well ..enough soap box for one day!

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:22 PM
No matter what, you can't not go to an "A" show, for example WEF and not find EVERYONE in: GP, TS, Pikeur, Van Teal, Essex, Regal Crowne's, etc. It's called conforming! You see your fave pro making a fashion statement and you follow it, you see a no-name rider making a fashion statement, and you dismiss them as dumb, unfashionable, etc. If the norm calls for GP, TS, Van Teal, Vogels, etc. who doesn't follow it? You don't wanna stick out...
*pOnY rOcK*

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:27 PM
Back on soapbox...YES you can pony rock! Not everyone falls for the hype that surrounds fashionable brands. Not everyone cares about the same. Not everyone is willing to spend massive amounts of $$ on clothing...I prioritize...go to the show or buy a 150 dollar riding shirt??? That's a no brainer. You are still young and you will realize the truth I am speaking someday...even though now you think I am a hopeless fossil who clearly is out of touch with the "real" world. I hope you always have the ability to be choosey about what you wear...you are very lucky.

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:31 PM
PonyRock, you used so many negatives in your first sentence I am still trying to figure out what you are trying to say.

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:37 PM
Pony Rock
maybe pony rock rides with someone who buys the best of everything and always makes a fashion statement if not anything else? And, maybe pony rock is told exactly what brands he/she HAS to buy? Just a guess from the post

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:44 PM
"bad hair job under helmet. Your hair must be neatly in a hairnet under your helmet. If it is too long, then cut it-any sort of braid, bun, etc is inappropriate. "

That's a pretty pathetic statment. If you think I'm going to cut my hair short to conform to someone's idea of how it ought to look in the show ring, you really need to get a life.

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:44 PM
<<I prioritize...go to the show or buy a 150 dollar riding shirt??? That's a no brainer. >>

Not to pick a fight, but it costs alot more that $150 in entry fees around here. If I wanted to skip a show, I could probably buy a new GP jacket, TS, and 3 shows shirts for the cost /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Dec. 21, 2000, 08:03 PM
OK.....maybe I should have said...150 dollar shirt or a STALL at a horse show..mea culpa... I am painfully aware of the expense of the A shows...my point remains the same.

Dec. 21, 2000, 08:26 PM
OK, I am a conformist. But when I already have a horse that sticks out like a sore thumb at the hunter shows, I want to blend in as much as possible.

I am slowly aquiring the aforementioned articles of clothing,but am I paying through the nose? Heck no! I'm a poor college student.
Is my hunt coat brand name? No, actually it's homemade. I'm very lucky to have a talented seamstress for a mother. Vogel boots? No. Off the rack devon-aires bought on sale seven years ago. But they shine better than anyone else's on the show grounds.
Shirt, bought on sale knock-off.
Helmet-approved troxel used every time I ride. Must Have, no question. OK, I splurged. But it fit me perfectly, and I liked it.
Breeches-pytchley's brand new bought off e-bay.
Total cost of entire show outfit? $350
Cost of feeling good about how I look? Priceless
(Sorry. I have seen way too many commercials this last week!)
I may not have bought everything top of the line, but it looks the same, and taken care of lasts a long time.

Black Market Radio
Dec. 21, 2000, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by ThingBigEq: "*Bad clipping jobs, but only in the big divisions...In my opinion, the little, fat, furry ponies look SO CUTE in the mini stirrup! But really, like a JR Hunter should be nicely clipped...If they don't like the clippers, DRUG them, making sure the drugs are out of their system before your next show..."

Does anyone else see anything wrong with this statement? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

And Twister, thank you for the reply re ear infections, but one thing, just because it has not happened to you, doesn't mean that it can't. I have personally seen NASTY cases of ear infections that the vet told me stemmed from clipping ears. That is when she told me that she recommended I never clip the inside of the ears because of it. It's a very real thing. I have never got a cold from standing in the rain either, but it doesn't mean that it can't happen or that it hasn't happened to others!

Dec. 22, 2000, 05:14 AM
To all those who think everyone is too picky-
Hunters are about details. How perfectly the jumps are jumped, a perfect pace and image. A huge part of that is turnout. And if you have a clean, fit horse and tidy rider, then the comparison for the turnout comes down to details - hooves polished? perfect braids? attractive outfit? Nobody is looking for brands per say, but there is a look you want to have.If you aren't detail oriented, don't do hunters.
I assumed these were no-no's for the hunter ring. When I did my combined tests, I admired people who rode well, even though there turnout wasn't hunter perfect. It didn't have to be. The details there are in the accuracy of your dressage, and the pace and cleaness of your jumping.

I'd say the biggest no-no for any sport is an unfit, dirty, unloved horse. A bad pouty attitude. Abuse of an animal. As someone said earlier, not putting the horse first.

So, if you think it's picky to need a choker monogram, or have your hair perfect, maybe you need to try other horse sports than hunters. You may be happier.

Dec. 22, 2000, 05:34 AM
The title of this thread does not indicate "A" shows only. And I pity those who are so terrified of not conforming that they would not be caught dead in brands other than TS, Van Teal, GP, etc. I buy what I like, and prefer to spend my money on stuff that lasts a long time and holds up well.

Dec. 22, 2000, 05:36 AM
I'm so glad I'm too old to be victim of peer pressure any longer. I'll wear what I like and not care a whit what anyone else thinks of it.

The aphorism is true: The older you get, the less you care. Ahhh, freedom . . . /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 22, 2000, 05:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It doesn't cost a fortune to wear an appropriate looking riding get up. There are lots of second hand stores that sell the "right" clothes for significantly less. I just bought a Grand Prix jacket in Middleburg for 50 bucks, not 350 bucks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I AM Queen Consignment....LOL!!! I won't pay full price for ANYTHING!!! My Der Daus are the only thing I had to fork out true bucks for...and the guy gave me the gussets for free...yeah!!

HN73...one weekend we need to have a consignment shopping day up in Marshall and Middleburg!!!

Dec. 22, 2000, 06:03 AM
Hey Jane....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> DMK? you put the number around the horses neck?
Hmm, up here in the north (compared to you) we tied it around the martingale. Must be a NOrth/South difference. We also tie around a button how bout you? Doens't brake when sliding that number around for the judge to see in the hack! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, in VA, the number goes around the neck...guess it is a southern thing...what if your horse doesn't wear a martingale?

Also, I slip my string through the hole...not around the button...guess everyone has their own preferences on this one...no biggy...

Dec. 22, 2000, 06:11 AM
First of all to Heidi - I know of the girl you're talking about and she's a stunning rider. Period. You mentioned that she doesn't have the status items - but she is neat and clean! Point well taken..
I noticed last year at HITS there were many riders who didn't even wear khaki breeches let alone TS's. In fact, looking close you will find a few frayed cuffs, off the shelf boots, etc. What gave them that quintessential A look was the sharp fit and cleanliness of their very conservative attire. It's something that I think about every time I look for show clothing. Is it neat? Does it fit well? I didn't put as much care into my wedding gown!
I'd have to say one of my pet peeves is the damned show bow. Up here there's like a step-up circuit, the Trillium. I thought that it would be like a mini-A, I'd heard so much about it. I was rather disappointed with the turn-out of most riders: too-big black jackets, flopping chokers, salad-bowls on the heads that flopped sideways over the argggggh! show bows. I think my 1970's hunt cap that fits well is safer than a poorly-fitted helmet that flops!
My next biggest pet peeve is juniors in shadbellies. It looks idiotic. Geez - don't wear the things until you can wear a topper!!! If I were compelled to wear a helmet, I'd put on my regular melton. Don't even GO to the pony riders! I guess the only thing that looks more ridiculous than a junior in a shadbelly and helmet is a pony rider in a shadbelly, helmet and jods. (Flame suit in place).
I would appreciate it, if I were committing a fashion faux-pas, to be told about it. I went to an event once and right before my dressage test, I heard some scathing remarks from other riders about my pinney. Think: this thread within earshot. Well, hell, I didn't know about those cool little bridle numbers, and I was not offered one by the secretary! I don't think any of us would mind a more experienced competitor coming up and politely offering some turn-out advice. (I have to keep telling myself that sneaking up behind a rider and clipping off their show bow does not come under the heading of polite.)

Dec. 22, 2000, 07:34 AM
I just theink it is interesting that the Dressage and Combined Training (sorry- Eventing) rules go into considerable detail about what attire is permitted (or banned). As long as you stau withing those rules, and are neat and tidy,nobody much cares.

Where as in Hunters, the attire rules are very vague (and where they are explicit, completely ignored), people are fanatical about the "right" and "wrong" of turn out details.

A couple people have implied that if you don't want to obsess about details of attire, you shouldn't show hunters. I thought it was about getting 8 good fences, jumping round, snapping the knees, getting clean changes, maintaining an even pace through the course, and so on. I THOUGHT the rider wasn't supposed to factor explicitly into the judging. Oh well, I guess I am naive.

Black Market Radio
Dec. 22, 2000, 07:46 AM
Dressage is about details too, yet you will not find the nit-pickiness of fashion details being discussed at length. Riding is discussed at length. I don't mean here that dressage is better than Hunters, I am merely pointing out this, and it is a FACT. Please do not flame me for it.

Again, I agree with neat and clean, but come on, not everyone CAN get everything absolutly perfect for some reason or another. Maybe they feel lucky to have a horse and concentrate more on their riding ability rather than attire. There is proper attire, and then there is "Oh my gosh, her boots are a CENTEMETER too short..." Or "I can't BELIEVE they didn't monogram their collar! What were they THINKING????"

This is what people have been trying to change in your sport. The attitude that if you don't wear the right clothes, ride the right horse, train with the right person or are of the right build/weight/eyecolor/haircolor then you are not going to win.

I know fashion is fun, and if it's your thing, then there is nothing wrong with that! But slamming other people for NOT having certain things is not right. Watch how they ride first. Then tell me whether or not they belong at a show. Or maybe people can't ride anymore so they resort to showing fashion style instead of riding style.

Dec. 22, 2000, 07:54 AM
Everybody sing!

Dec. 22, 2000, 08:07 AM
Doe...a deer, a female deer
Ray...a drop of golden sun...

Dec. 22, 2000, 08:21 AM
Well, I have none. But it is ironic that the same people being picky about perfect braids, and clean boots have the most beat-up helmets ever! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Heck, it was a contest when I was growing up to see who could desicrate their helmet first!

When I showed IHSA, our coach was an eventer. She swiped my helmet and glued the little bow up and told me to borrow a nicer helmet next time!

Dec. 22, 2000, 10:55 AM
By rights, I should have had at least one horse with some sort of ear infection, but I have never had the care of any horse with an ear infection. If your vet tells you clipping them out can cause ear infections, I have no reason to doubt her, but I managed a huge sales barn for five years, trained at two different boarding stables for a total of seven years, and have been freelancing (of sorts) for the last nine. That's a LOT if horses, all with their ears trimmed all the time.

As for the comments about dresage riders not discussing fashion, but discussing riding, where have you been? The DQ's boarding at a neighbor's recently had a several day long discussion about various 'seats' in breeches!

Dec. 22, 2000, 11:05 AM
I think many who are disturbed by the nit-pickiness of the posts are missing a point. Most of these things are pet peeves. Sans mongram will not change your placing. Brand of breeches will not change your placing. Even an 'inappropriate' color will not change your placing. Personally, I cannot wear TS, because if it fits over my butt, three of us could fit in the waist. It is not a problem.

There is a certain 'look' that goes with showing hunters, and the idea is to find that look. Hair under a helmet, for example, creates a cleaner line down your back than a bun. A bun looks good under a top hat, however, because of the brim. Gloves keep your hands from breaking the line of dark coat sleeve to dark rein. It is a more finished look.

Just like other sports, riding attire goes through fashion changes. Remember how short basketball shorts used to be?

Van Teal
Dec. 22, 2000, 11:12 AM
Oh yeah, that's when I used to watch it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Dec. 22, 2000, 11:14 AM
Twister, I won't argue that hair may look "neater" under a helmet than in a bun, but my hair has not been cut in well over 30 years, and there is *no way* it will fit under a helmet.

I used to put it in a bun before I started wearing a helmet with a harness, but it is not possible to do it with the *&^% harness.

So, yes, I use one of those horrifying show bows.
Plain black grosgrain ribbon, and it is all I can do to stuff all my hair into it.

What is getting my goat is all the shorthairs pontificating on
a) how I ought to wear my hair to suit their tastes.
b)that I should *cut* it to fit under a helemet.

That has nought to do with a neat turnout. That is firmly under personal prejudice.
(And yes, I wear a hairnet to contain the rest of my hair)

Dec. 22, 2000, 01:28 PM
<<No matter what, you can't not go to an "A" show, for example WEF and not find EVERYONE in: GP, TS, Pikeur, Van Teal, Essex, Regal Crowne's, etc. >>

Maybe you should look harder. A very good friend of mine shows in a Troxel GP helmet, a Miller's Tri-Umph jacket, Cavalier field boots and a $30 shirt. She was champion at Jacksonville last year and her $500 horse beat about 25 others in a Horse Of The Year competition at First Coast.

<<It's called conforming!>>
I call it spending mass amounts of money because everyone else does.

<< You see your fave pro making a fashion statement and you follow it, you see a no-name rider making a fashion statement, and you dismiss them as dumb, unfashionable, etc.>>>

Maybe YOU do, PonyRock. I go up and I say hello. Just because their show wardrobe did not cost $3,500 doesn't mean that they're "dumb". Maybe they put the money into the show, their horse's feed, etc.

I found that whole post extremely offensive. I don't know where you're coming from but you are the only person that absolutely insisted upon brand names in this whole thread. "Neat and clean" does not equal outrageously expensive. And if everyone conformed all the time, Pony Rock, we'd still be wearing navy jackets and Harry Halls.

Dec. 22, 2000, 02:06 PM
whether or not you feel strongly about clipping the hair out of the inside of a horse's ears may be a location thing. Here in Texas, where the summer is hot and humid and the bugs are many, a lot of people like to leave the hair in the ears, trimmed a bit so it's neat and not sticking out, because the horses can be miserable without it.

I remember when Portia arrived as a 2 year old on a beautiful April evening from California, where I bought her from a very A-show breeder. She arrived looking lovely, impeccably pulled and trimmed, with not a hair in her ears. Problem was, she was in Houston now and was going to spend the next year in a field (as young horses should). The flys, mosquitos, gnats, and no-see-ums immediately made her miserable. She had to wear a full fly bonnet for the entire summer until the hair in her ears grew back!

Dec. 22, 2000, 03:11 PM
...then you have 'other issues'. Just as my fat fanny prevents me from wearing TS's, your hair prevents you from doing your hair under your helmet. Do what works and understand that just because someone else would cut their hair, you don't have to.

Dec. 22, 2000, 03:13 PM
...I knew you were a tramp! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Basketball hasn't been the same, has it? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dec. 22, 2000, 03:14 PM
...in my first 'ears' post, I noted that my lesson horses living outside had a modified trim that did not remove the hair inside their ears.

Dec. 22, 2000, 04:25 PM
"Do what works and understand that just because someone else would cut their hair, you don't have to. "

After 30+ years, I have no intention of cutting my hair.
And I have no beef with someone else who would or does cut theirs.
What I'm getting aggravated about are those folks in this dicussion who have said that long haired folks *should* cut theirs in order to meet the shortahirs' standards.

Why is short hair a hunter standard?
It certianly can't be "tradition".

Dec. 22, 2000, 06:10 PM
I am amazed and dismayed by the posts from the kids that are so materialistic. I wouldn't care if I had to wear second hand anything IF I could only have a horse..These kids are missing something. The name of the game isn't the one with the most toys wins (or the one with the custom chaps, jacket, shirt, boots etc) What happened to horsemanship, sportsmanship, care and concern for the animal and the simple joy of owning a horse? It is distressing that owning a horse has become a contest to see how much money mommy and daddy will spend on the "correct" boots, coats, etc etc. I guess when you have sooo much, you an still be discontent..It is sad really. If they had to WORK for these items there would be another song being sung..I think a weekend job is in order to teach the value of a dollar. Even trust fund babies need to learn that money doesnt grow on trees.

Dec. 23, 2000, 07:48 AM
I'm sure most of us have seen the competitions from Europe and would agree that most of those riders do not seem to put fashion foremost. Maybe that is partially why we got our behinds whipped at the O's and why they continue to dominate the sport. Maybe their young riders are more concerned with getting the job done well than with brand names, colors and conforming. Most of the women riders have hair flying all over the place and I've even seen *gasp* too short tall boots on some of them. They are horsemen and focus on the basics - breeding a good horse, training the horse well, taking good care of it and riding it well. We focus on the A's, the newest swatches, who's wearing what and getting someone else to ride your horse in the warmups so you can win your own division.

Dec. 23, 2000, 10:07 AM
Wow. Good point. It doesn't leave much room for argument, does it?

Let us hope that every single serious rider on this board reads your post (judges, specifically, since they are in a position to DO something in response to your thought-provoking point). /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dec. 23, 2000, 11:12 AM
We tried so hard to make things better for our kids that we made them worse. For my grandchildren, I'd like better. I'd really like for them to know about hand-me-down clothes and homemade ice cream and leftover meatloaf sandwiches.�� I really would.
I hope you learn humility by being humiliated, and that you learn honesty by being cheated. I hope you learn to make your own bed and mow the lawn and wash the car.� And I really hope nobody gives you a brand new car when you are sixteen.
It will be good if at least one time you can see puppies born and your dog put to sleep. I hope you get a black eye fighting for something you believe in.
I hope you have to share a bedroom with your younger brother. And it's all right if you have to draw a line down the middle of the room, but when he wants to crawl under the covers with you because he's scared, I hope you let him. When you want to see a movie and your little brother wants to tag along, I hope you'll let him.� I hope you have to walk uphill to school with your friends and that you live in a town where you can do it safely. On rainy days when you have to catch a ride, I hope you don't ask your driver to drop you two blocks away so you won't be seen riding with someone as un-cool as your Mom.
If you want a slingshot, I hope your Dad teaches you how to make one instead of buying one. I hope you learn to dig in the dirt and read books. When you learn to use computers, I hope you also learn to add and subtract in your head. I hope you get teased by your friends when you have your first crush on a girl, and when you talk back to your mother that you learn what ivory soap tastes like. May you skin your knee climbing a mountain, burn your hand on a stove and stick your tongue on a frozen flagpole.
I don't care if you try a beer once, but I hope you don't like it. And if a friend offers you dope or a joint, I hope you realize he is not your friend.
I sure hope you make time to sit on a porch with your Grandpa and go fishing with your Uncle.� May you feel sorrow at a funeral and joy during the holidays.
I hope your mother punishes you when you throw a baseball through your neighbor's window and that she hugs you and kisses you at Christmastime when you give her a plaster mold of your hand.
These things I wish for you - tough times and hard work, disappointment and happiness. To me, it's the only way to appreciate life.

Paul Harvey
This is in keeping with the same theme..It is beautiful and moving and appropriate for this holiday season!

Dec. 23, 2000, 11:17 AM
Elizabeth please explain to me how my judging of the Adult hunters is going to make The U.S. winners in the International jumpers?

Do I say, 'I'm not pinning you because, even though you are the best, you are wearing Tailored Sportmans breeches and you have a monogrammed choker and that is preventing us from winning internationally in the jumpers?????

Dec. 23, 2000, 11:22 AM
You have to start somewhere..It SHOULD be about RIDING not fashion...Clean, neat, great rider= winner.. Pytchley, TS, custom boots, momgram chaoker, rides like a plumber= the hook! There is no need to be bullied into accepting a certain "style" (or the lack thereof) to consider yourself competative at ANY level. Beauty is skin deep...ugly goes right to the bone.

Dec. 23, 2000, 11:26 AM
Thanks for doing the copying/pasting/posting thing with it!

Dec. 23, 2000, 11:30 AM
I didn't realize that I intimated that you, personally, were not pinning people b/c they weren't wearing TS. I certainly HOPE that that is not the case. I, of course, did not intend to intimate such.

To be less cryptic, I thought the system works as follows: If you, as a judge, pin a person who is wearing rust breeches/britches ordered from State Line tack AND a show bow b/c she can ride the snot out of her horse, the other competitors will go home having learned a lesson. (e.g. their time is better spent schooling their horse, critiquing videos of their lessons, begging for catch rides and lessons, etc. than fretting over minutia)

As to the hunter/jumper distinction, I have to believe that a good rider is a good rider, regardless of the venue. No? So your point about your judging hunters not really influencing the future of the US jumper team is not 100% accurate - no?

Also, I suspect (and I have no basis for suspecting this, other than my own meandering line of logic) that our US jumper teams likely rode pony or children's or junior or adult hunters at one point in time, so the judging they received way back when likely did influence their future (jumper) riding.

Lastly, I am having an urge for corn tamales. I just moved to CA, and I have had them for the first time in my life, recently. Does anyone have a recipe? I'd like to make them tonight or tomorrow. Or can anyone point me to a web recipe site? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 23, 2000, 11:36 AM
It is correct, a judge wont pin you based on your attire. I think it will be rare you will find an A/A rider that wins wearing a showbow and rust britches. I will say however, you may see a rider in too short boots, rust britches, and a showbow. They have probably just moved up from a schooling circuit. I personally would feel uncomfortable if I didn't fit in, but that doesn't necessarily mean I wear TS, and have a Butet and a monogrammed choker. You will find that many "A" barns will have a dress code for horse showing, and maybe that explains all the conformity we see?

Dec. 23, 2000, 01:11 PM
Elizabeth, I didn't think you implied I only pinned TS-wearing riders, I think you implied I should NOT pin them in order to teach them some lesson. The winner wins. Turnout is a tiebreaker. Being turned out in the best possible manner shows you are serious about showing and want to create the best possible first impression.

You feel judges are in a position to solve our international problems, implying that somehow, judges in the hunters are going to have to stop pinning well dressed riders in order to increase our international standing in the jumpers. Of all the arguments I have ever heard presented, this is pretty much the most ridiculous. My guess is Molly Ashe would agree with me.

Dec. 23, 2000, 01:25 PM
Twister, the judge should always pin the best round REGARDLESS of what the rider is wearing, not because of what the rider is wearing. Attire should really never enter the equation unless is is forbidden in the rule book. I think that judges would breathe a sigh of relief if everyone quit being so obsessed with brands.

And that Adult A/A rider will probably never make it to the USET! However, maybe they love the sport and have the bankbook to allow their children to ride and show at a high level. Maybe they will encourage their daughters to spend a hour reading advanced horse care books or watching instructional videos instead of flipping through swatches or going to the mall. Maybe they will encourage their sons to look beneath that ugly pinto's long muddy coat to see the clean legs, perfect shoulder and powerful hind end that could make this horse a fantastic jumper. Maybe that A/A rider who does not care about colors, brands, etc will recognize the talent and discipline in one of the young barn kids who can't afford the warmblood and vogels, and help them get a leg up in the show world somehow.

It seems that many people are so blinded by the tags on the garments that they have lost sight of the meaning of the sport.

I am already ordering taupe breeches for next year, and I think I will thumb my nose at the rest of the boring conformists and wear my long hair in a show bow under an approved helmet. However, I won't give up my Dehners. They are just too comfy.

Dec. 23, 2000, 01:35 PM
I hope no one is saying that a person showing in nice and neat attire cannot also be a horseperson. I do not believe the two characteristics to be mutually exclusive.

Of course, that doesn't mean one must conform totally, all the time. How else would new trends be set? I don't think I'll go show in the A/A's in jods and paddock boots...But, that is not to say that I might not wear rust breeches some day either. If I "dare" to be different, then so be it. My package will still be neat and tidy. My turnout will be as immaculate as possible and I will ride to the utmost of my ability on that day and hopefully my horsey will cooperate! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And I'm sure my true friends will still speak to me! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 23, 2000, 01:44 PM
Twister, go back and read my original post, to which you originally replied. I did not imply that you "should NOT pin [TS-wearing riders] in order to teach them some lesson. The winner wins. Turnout is a tiebreaker." That would be counter-productive. I think you should pin the best rider/horse/trip. Period.

As to your statement that "You feel judges are in a position to solve our international problems, implying that somehow, judges in the hunters are going to have to stop pinning well dressed riders in order to increase our international standing in the jumpers. Of all the arguments I have ever heard presented, this is pretty much the most ridiculous," it seems to me that you are looking to start a fight.

I personally avoid saying things like "of all the arguments I have ever heard presented, this is pretty much the most ridiculous," b/c I think that that is confrontational and is likely to just provoke ill-will. Surely you didn't mean to come across that way, did you? (Though, I can't see a good way for me to take your statement "of all the arguments I have ever heard, this is pretty much the most ridiculous.")

I can't tell you what to say, nor can I tell you how to say it, but I will say that that statement of yours didn't really seem too darn amicable.

I encourage you to go back and read my post (just after Duffy's) - if it still isn't clear and if you really didn't get my point, I'm happy to either (a) e-mail you privately and re-iterate or (b) clarify a specific point of confusion. I can't really believe, though, that saying my point is "pretty much the most ridiculous" is a particularly constructive way to encourage the mutual exchange of ideas. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dec. 23, 2000, 03:21 PM
is a combination of everyone's: Yes, clean and tidy is the most important. Yes, you should be concerned more with finding the 8 jumps, braiding your horse's mane well, grooming him till he shines--not just the morning of the show!--and worrying more about the horsemanship side of showing. Yes, I definitely agree. However, when in any of all this did it say you could not be a good horseperson and also wear "stylish" or "faddish" attire, depending on your point of view? I will admit, I only do the beginner rider divisions and very low stuff--gimme a break, I don't own the horse and the girl who does own it does the 3' so I can't move up--but I do own 1 pair of Tailored Sportsman breeches (I, not mom, paid full price), I have 1 Essex Shirt (I, not mom, paid full price) and 1 Van Teal that I bought on sale for $35, along with one other no-name shirt that was also on sale, but I liked the colors. I have semi-custom boots because I have long skinny legs with very wide feet, and can't fit off-the-rack--trust me, if I could, I would--they were a Christmas present last year. I have one navy coat and I think I'll be getting a brown one for Christmas, both Elites from GP. A Troxel helmet, which I hate, but hey, it's a helmet. When I go to a show, it is to do the best I can, working on what I have been practicing at home. I go to prove to myself and my trainer that Yes, I can do it and do it well. Is it a bad thing if I wear clothes that are in style or are not the bare minimum of what is acceptable?

I realize that everyone was mostly speaking about the people who go to a show to go to a show, who wear the clothes because they can, who couldn't give a darn about the riding and horsemanship aspect of it, but putting everyone who wears the "cool" show attire into a big lump and saying "they wear XXX, therefore they cannot ride" is a horrible generalization. I know no one said that specifically, but that seems to be the general concensus.

I also agree that brands are not nearly as important as well-fitting, appropriate, tasteful attire. That said, there is nothing wrong with brands, either. The thing that is wrong is when people get hung up on either those who wear the brand name clothes--the "hunter queens"--versus those who don't. OK, now that I've done my "let's all just get along speech," time for my pet peeves: /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

--Show bows, ok, I said it. Even if you have long hair, most people can get it up into a helmet--I had waist-length, long, thick, a nd CURLY hair, and still got it all into my hat. Only took one hairnet and a medium-sized barrette. It can be done.
--Not neccessarily too-short boots, but boots that were obviously just grabbed off a shelf with no regard to how wide they are--boots so wide they gain extra wrinkles because they sag so much...
--not using hairnets if hair is done up--just baecuse your hair is very short doesn't mean it doesn't stick out of your hat--do the nylons thing if you must!
--dirty tack, don't even get me sstarted on unpolished boots--I could get homicidal on boot polishing....hehehe /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
--horses that were abviously not groomed prior to the show--you know the scene: rider getting ready to school before the class and starts to curry the horse for the first time in ages and more dust appears that dissappears...horse gets all dull-coated and people wonder why the currying didn't help...ya gotta do it constantly, all the time, every day, not just when you are stepping into the ring. ShowSheen is amazing stuff, but it ain't a miracle in a bottle! /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
--General stuff: unwashed socks or at least not conrstarched in the chilly months, dirty saddlepads, green mouths and filthy bits, etc.

You get the idea. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Anyway, sorry so long and happy holidays everyone!

Dec. 23, 2000, 06:54 PM
is with people who regard you with disdain if you are NOT dressed a certain way.

Dec. 23, 2000, 07:55 PM
...most definitely agree, I was just noticing how some people had turned into an opportunity to bash not only those who wear just tredy stuff as well as those who don't wear it--neither side is any better. Wasn't defending either viewpoint, sorry if it came off as a "lay off the snobs!" post /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

J. Turner
Dec. 23, 2000, 08:49 PM
In the hunters, you have to make your horse and you trim and neat. You don't see shaggy dogs (well, unless they're supposed to be) at a dog show, do you? They're groomed to specifications. Same with hunters. If you don't want to worry about impressions, then do the jumpers. Note, I didn't mention a single brand name. TRIM and NEAT. The key with hunters/eq is that the judge shouldn't notice anything. Anything that jumps out (except breathtaking rounds) is glaring and probably distracting.

Dec. 23, 2000, 09:12 PM
of softball. The object was to get as dirty as possible. It was the sign of a true player. If you were perfectly neat and clean, you were surely a bench warmer. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But before everyone jumps on me, I should add that I always dress neatly, with the proper clothing, and my horse is always nicely groomed with the proper tack. However, I am amazed at the lengths people go to in order to conform, even down to the brand name of clothing. I am reminded of the time my friend came to watch me at a show. I tried to give her detailed directions to the barn we were at, etc., but she wasn't concerned about being able to find me. On the day she came to the show, when she finally found me she exclaimed that it took her forever to find me. She figured that she'd spot me right away...blonde, female, average sized. What amazed her is that EVERYONE looks almost exactly the same, and you can't even easily distinguish hair color because it's up in the helmet!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

It sort of reminds me of junior high school, where you were nobody if you didn't have KSwiss tennis shoes, levi's 501s, and Izod polo shirt, and a Member's Only jacket. God forbid someone wore an imitation brand. Horrors! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dec. 23, 2000, 09:35 PM
goodness! I am one of those people that beat the crap out of their stuff using it and just being rough.. (what can I say, it takes talent) and honeslty I started using the devon aire stuff when I first started showing (maybe 6yrs ago) and when something rips after one show there is a problem.. I have found that, or buttons fall off, or the shirts are sea threwish.. If someone is well neat and tidy you can't tell what kind of brands they have on.. breeches are the exception of this, TSs just look different. but honestly not everyone fits in TS breeches, so everyone else will blend in with those people.. like I have a pink shirt that I dunno what brand it is but I was going to CO for two different shows and needed another shirt, so I bought it..no one can tell from the outside what kind it is..

Sorry to ramble but I think everyone is making a bigger deal outta this then they have to. I think this topic for things that you don't like.. and WHO can tell what brand you have on? certainly not a judge who is outside the ring.. they can tell ovious things, show bows, no gloves, unbraided or messy braided horse, dull hoofs, manure stains, ect... not brands.. do don't worry people..

Dec. 23, 2000, 10:13 PM
Jess, I agree. Quite frankly, anything greenish-beige with a side zip and the little white and red tag (ie, TS, Millers, Pytchley) looks the same to me, and call me crazy but I can't tell one brand of show shirt from the other!

IMHO, if it fits and looks nice, then it's worth what you paid for it. Same thing goes for a horse: it's only worth what someone will pay for it.

Dec. 24, 2000, 10:43 AM
I'm gonna go up on the soapbox. I hate the horse show world. Period. Yet I still compete and I love it. Doesn't make sense right? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Well, here goes, I don't care if I ramble. I hate that it's so darn expensive!! What makes TS any better than another pair of breeches? Why are Van Teals $130+? How come even if you buy $50,000 CHILDREN'S hunter, you can't win because some doo-da goes out any buys a $200,000 junior hunter so they can win in the Children's? How come this sport is all about money? I really don't find it fair because so many people miss out on a great thing. And how come all of these fashion threads turn to money? I rather ride in a show w/o clothes than have to spend $300 for a coat, $180 for pants, and so on. AGH! So much for holiday spirit. Bah humbug. Gosh, shows are *so* political. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I had to vent, please proceed your discussion. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
*pOnY rOcK*

Dec. 24, 2000, 10:47 AM
Well said.

OK so for everyone else: Y'all are pretty much saying the same thing, just taking up 10 pages to do it. Can we just all agree that: Neat and tidy is all that matters? That is pretty much all y'all are saying!

--Mimi (Sky too!)

Dec. 24, 2000, 11:02 AM
Well...if you wear GPs, VanTeals, TSs, and Vogels, one group of people are going to think you are a snob. If you don't, another group of people are going to think you aren't well turned out enough. I say, do what you want to do-just make yourself look good. If the only way you think that you look good and gain the self-esteem is in a GP jacket and TS breeches, go for it. If you think you look stunning in your well fitting Devon-Aire jacket, long sleeve no-name show shirt, and off the rack(but well fitting!) boots, go for it. There is always going to be someone who doesn't like what you wear, but if what you are wearing is not offensive in the traditional show ring attire (not the trendy stuff, but the style derived from the hunt field), then that is all that matters.

Dec. 24, 2000, 12:05 PM
Well, not to stray from the vital clothing topic, but I can deal with less trendy clothes as long as the horse doesn't have a mile-long bridle path. BRIDLE path, people. You don't need to be able to drive a mack truck through it.

Dec. 24, 2000, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There were also a couple posts indicating distaste for a show of wealth in wearing diamonds and a post indicating dislike for the silver tipped spur straps, which also cost more money.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That wasnt my point about the spur straps. I just think they are gaudy and tacky...I don't care how much they cost. They just arent tasteful.

Dec. 24, 2000, 03:14 PM
I have a pair that were custom made for me/my show boots for my 18th birthday as a gift from my old trainer. Silver buckles and silver tips. I love them!

Dec. 24, 2000, 03:47 PM
I like them also Slugger. I guess because it is a chance to have something that isn't so conventional!

Dec. 24, 2000, 08:39 PM
My "expensive" silver (fake) tipped spur straps that are at least 5 years old cost 15.00. Not exactly haute coture..and better looking than nylon web ones.

Dec. 26, 2000, 07:56 AM

All you need is demosidan?

To get a trace clip (for winter riding) my horse got 14mg of demosidan AND 14mg of buterphanol, yes both IV.

Even with all that, we could get no closer to his face than his throatlatch -- hence the trace clip, not a full clip.

The vet used 1/2 that amount to do a full dental job last year -- he was stunned it took all those drugs just to get him clipped. God only knows what someone once did to him (the horse, not the vet) to make him that deathly afraid of the clippers.

For shows, he gets his ears and fetlocks done with scissors and his muzzle done with shaving cream and a razor. Only problem is that he licks off the shaving cream -- have to be quick.

Dec. 26, 2000, 08:14 AM
Don't sweat it Nancy..I had one that would have needed to be anesthetized to clip her head..I NEVER got it done..she almost killed herself leaping straight up and clunking her head on a barn beam drunk off her butt!! That's enough...she stayed hairy. Some things arent worth arguing about. If they don't like it, don't look!!! Clip enough to keep them from getting a chill in the winter and then walk away. I sympathise.

Dec. 26, 2000, 08:31 AM
I saw this discussion and the other one on the styles people used to wear when showing and am just amazed at how this has progressed into a display of "fashion victims." Pretty interesting. I remember participating in local HJ schooling and a recognized shows when I was in my teens and focused on eventing. I came in as a well turned out event rider...not a HJ rider. But I always won when we put the ride together, and lost when I missed a change, etc. Stride counting was not the big deal, and neither was the perfect wardrobe. So what if I wore a slightly different cut coat, off the rack boots that didn't fit perfectly or didn't use the ever present/popular button braids? The judges were judging me and my horse...not my attire.

It seems the HJ world is going into a clothing and horse breed fade with both feet first. But, I guess I can't say too much, since in the dressage world we are quickly closing the gap and will shortly be walking side-by-side, if not outpacing you people. *sigh*

Wasn't there a discussion going on regarding plain old good horsemanship? I remember seeing it as a talk about lower level, know-it-all dressage riders. Hmmm...seems this is just as bad. They think they are perfect when they are wrong because they have the incorrect "picture" of a dressage horse in their head, and a lot of people out here are judging HJ people by what they see on the outside as well (both with clothing and riding technique).

Where's the horsemanship? Hopefully it will still be there and a day will come when everyone who has the proper attire by AHSA rules (name brands aside), for themselves and their horses, can compete against each other and be judged purely on their ability to ride. (I have the same frustration with dressage riders. It seems only eventers have the right idea and mind set. The DO judge riding skills only.)

Dec. 26, 2000, 01:16 PM
Call me cha cha and Hollywood, but I like a lot of those bright coats they're wearing in Europe.

Just like I looooooooove my silver tipped $9.00 spur straps.

Girlfriends, if there was a way to make it even more Las Vegas, I'd be there!

Dec. 26, 2000, 01:25 PM
...I will take one more stab at it. Elizabeth, how is it counterproductive to use turn-out as a tiebreaker? You say the best should win, period. I completely agree and said so in my very first post to you. The winner wins. If there is not a clear winner, (or clear third or fouth) other things get called into play. Were you prompt into the ring? Is your horse clean and shiny? Did you have a nice finishing circle? The word tiebreaker in it's very usage means there was no one clearly the best.

Flash, I said turn-out is the tiebreaker, not attire. Attire is a part of turn-out, not the sum total of turnout and if it should never enter the equation, why do we bother to wear anything but jeans and t-shirts and chaps?

As a judge, I have never ever looked at someones attire in order to acertain the brand name and why judges would breathe a sigh of relief if the riders quit worrying about brands, is beyond me. What the rider obsesses about outside the ring is of no concern to me.

Walk in my ring, lay down the winning trip and you get the blue ribbon. Walk into my ring, two of you lay down the winning trip and I'm going to have to dig deeper to discern the winner.

I have never ever heard arguments against looking ones best and I am still wondering how the parallel got drawn between riders who want to look their best and our inability to compete Internationally. Serena Williams designs her own tennis attire and it hasn't kept her from the very top. I cannot understand how a desire to look ones absolute best and performance excellence are diametrically opposed.

Oh, Elizabeth, I was certainly not trying to start a fight. I said the idea was ridiculous. If I would have said, 'Elizabeth you are an idiot for agreeing with such a ridiculous idea.' THAT would have been trying to start a fight.

Dec. 26, 2000, 01:58 PM
Serena Williams has a wonderful body, but I think that some of her self designed clothing pushed the limit of propriety in public. Too much skin, not enough material. You can still play good tennis dressed modestly.

Why are you wearing silver tipped spur straps? Are you trying to draw attention to your ineffective leg or your horse's laziness?

You can shave a horse's muzzle with just water, you don't need shaving cream! Wish I could see that.

Dec. 26, 2000, 02:01 PM
A riding crop sticking out of your boot while you are riding around and even showing.

Wearing a really really really tight pair of pants with flip flops!

Dec. 26, 2000, 02:19 PM

"Why are you wearing silver tipped spur straps? Are you trying to draw attention to your ineffective leg or your horse's laziness?"

When previoiusly you said:
"The title of this thread does not indicate "A" shows only. And I pity those who are so terrified of not conforming that they would not be caught dead in brands other than TS, Van Teal, GP, etc. I buy what I like, and prefer to spend my money on stuff that lasts a long time and holds up well. "

I think you pick fights.

I like the silver tipped spur straps because I think they look cool. Just like I like the silver and black shirt I am wearing today.

Its not about drawing attention to anything.

You want individuality and not the cookie cutter TS, 350.00 jacket and custom vogels? Then let people express themselves how they want.



Dec. 26, 2000, 03:15 PM
I think a lot of people buy GP, TS, etc. because of the quality. TS are very nice and they hold up well. I've fallen off many times in TS and never had a prob with tearing or ripping. They're also warm in the winter and cool in the summer. GP's are great. In the winter they are chilly, but in the summer sun, they're light weight and comfortable. Personally, I hate Van Teals. They are stiff and itchy as compared to smooth and soft Essex shirts. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think fit is also an issue. GP's are really slim and flattering. TS look good on skinny riders and heavier riders. If it looks good, get it. It's stupid if people are going to discriminate against other riders because they don't see the silver lining of their coat over fences. You're missing out on making friends if that's your mentality! I really can't tell the difference between my favorite blue Essex shirt to a shirt I saw in State Line that I liked! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
*pOnY rOcK*

Dec. 26, 2000, 05:20 PM
I am drawing attention to my fabulous lower leg and to my awesome fashion sense. My horse is very willing to "let" me wear them so we can both make a fashion statement. She is as concerned with "the look" as I am..
And .... there is rarely a "tie" that can not be broken by the better mover or the better jumper. Turn out is the LAST thing that should be on the judges list! (as far as "fashionable" is concerned) Scanky is a whole other issue.
Why pick a fight?? We can get into it with innocent questions let alone loaded contentious commentary.

Dec. 26, 2000, 05:37 PM
For a very long time I only wore Pikeur breeches at shows...I like the zippered pocket and they fit well. Finally, I decided to conform and get a pair of TS breeches, 4 way of course because the 2 ways did not fit right at all! I was very impressed with the quality and feel of the fabric right away.

So anyway, the very first time I wore them, my horse refused a fence and I hung on long enough to be flung against the standard. As I fell, my thigh slid down right on the jump cup. My pants didn't even have a scratch on them....but my thigh required 10 stitches!!! And, not only are the pants rip-resistant, they are stain-resistant as well!!!

And if that wasn't enough, later I sat on a cut telephone pole with my TS's on. I ended up with a bunch of small creotine stains on the rear end of my pants. I got some paint thinner, and the stain cleaned right off, without causing any damage to the pants whatsoever! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 26, 2000, 06:40 PM
"Oh jumphigh," she says, snuggling against jumphigh's unfashionable velvet-collar show coat, giving jumphigh a pat on her totally geeky mushroon-head hat, "I love you."
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 27, 2000, 08:06 AM
HN73, your thought process is flawed if you think I pick fights.

I don't understand why someone would wear spurs if they do not need them. Then again, I practice efficient time management and spending habits, and don't get it when people take the time and money to purchase, clean and apply something that they do not need.

I had a pair of TS 4 way beige. After a year of use, the color had faded a lot. I also have a pair of On Course which are identical to the TS. After a year of use, the color is the same. There was not much difference is price, but the On Course held up better for me. If the TS had lasted longer, I would probably still be buying them because the fit was really good.

A girl in my barn was shocked that I didn't wear TS. I asked her why. Her reply was "because that's what everyone wears." Pathetic.

Dec. 27, 2000, 09:13 AM
Let's not mock my velvet collar and bubble head skunk helmet or I might just get ugly...(er) Happy Holidays everyone, fashion statements and fashion victims alike!

Dec. 30, 2000, 11:21 AM
i think mine is the worst... i went to a full-dress show in a wintec,( i hadn't gotten my saddle yet, other peeps were using my trainers) and didn't have tall boots yet, so i wore TS and garters. the only other people i saw w/ garters were little kids. i saw this other girl at the same show w/ sweatshirt on. it looked really bad!

Jun. 28, 2001, 11:38 PM
Lets bump this up. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lord Helpus
Jun. 29, 2001, 04:45 AM
A bad braid job --- far and away the #1 faux pas. If you cannot do a good job (the morning of -- NOT the night before), hire someone or show with a nicely pulled mane that lies flat on the right side. (Manes on the left are a big second, but you do not see too many of those in the hunter ring, thank goodness.)

Two weeks ago a horse went in an adult Medal unbraided at a AA show. I was aghast, but the rider rode well and was second in the Ariat Medal. Braids will not help you win, but a bad braid job certainly screams "newbie who doesn't know better" to the judge. If I were judging and saw someone come in with braids all cattywhompers, my first thought would be: "This rider is not experienced and will probably not put in a round with pinning." That is not the first impression you want to make on a judge...

I come down on braids so heavily because learning how to braid well does not cost money. It takes time and effort, but it is something that everyone can learn to do decently. (My mother made us start braiding our own ponies when we were 10, and I have braided my own all my life, so I know whereof I speak.)

Jun. 29, 2001, 04:55 AM
You guys think The "A" circuit is fad-tastic? You should check out a western pleasure show sometime. The way they glob on make-up like Tammy Faye Baker on little girls...you only win if your saddle is COVERED in silver (check out the QH Congress). Unless you have on Wranglers, fuhgedduhboutit!

And don't get me started on the way the horses move! Peanut pushers anyone? I swear they could plow a field with the horse's nose.

Jun. 29, 2001, 05:29 AM
Daughters trainer says don't worry about braiding for eq classes..many don't.... I still feel funny sending them in with no braids but it hasn't hurt her if she has good rounds..and it hasn't kept her from winning if she deserved it.

Jun. 29, 2001, 05:39 AM
I once saw an A/A rider with bright fuscia nail polish (on long, fake, Lee-Press-On-type nails!!!). Goes without saying she also had no gloves... Yuk. Also - those 2 tone (but expensive - usually Crosby) saddles... ew!

Jun. 29, 2001, 05:51 AM
I hate it when kids have their hair down with big bows attached that cover the number! The mom or trainer is thinking, "How cute!" I'm thinking, "What is that kid's number?"

Newsflash: If the judge can't SEE your number, the judge can't USE your number.

Jun. 29, 2001, 05:52 AM
Lay off the peanut pushers! Any horse dropping its poll BELOW the withers is penalized in AQHA shows. I know because my little all around guy beat the World Champion western pleasure horse at a show when the horse DROPPED ITS HEAD (it also was schooled in an overcheck to keep its head up).

I have seen comments made about peanut pushers many times before, and have never said anything. I did the AQHA stuff a few years ago, moved to hunters, then to eventing. The good pleasure horses are GOOD! I had a blast showing AQHA - at least their fashion dictates that everyone look different then look the same!

OK, rant over and climbing off soapbox!

Jun. 29, 2001, 07:07 AM
hair wisps flying out of the helmet

unclipped horses(muzzles, bridle path, ears,

No gloves

Show bows

short boots

clothes that don't fit right
dirty bits/tack

dirty horse-greys w/ manure stains every where. I own a grey and when I take her to shows i give her a bath the day before/the day of.

That's about it I think /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jun. 29, 2001, 09:53 AM
About fuzzy muzzles and fetlocks:

Scissors just can't do as nice a job as clippers and ...

Some of us can't get near our horses with clippers. Several years of trying and it still takes $50 worth of drugs just to get a trace clip (ending at the throat latch -- even then we can't get near his face) for the winter.

Pity our new groom who thought he would simply "touch up" my horse's whiskers -- he broke the safety snaps on the crossties and ended up at the far end of the 20 acres snorting and stomping like a lion was chasing him (luckily the gate was closed)!

My fault (and my trainer's), we forgot to warn the poor guy. He thought the lip thing would work. Nice try. ("Es muy loco", he said)

Jun. 29, 2001, 10:59 AM
NancyL: A nice pink disposable razor does the trick... takes forever, yes, has to be repeated often, yes, but your horse may sleep through the process... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jun. 29, 2001, 11:04 AM
Ear hair was put there for a reason. I won't clip the ears or eyelashes.

Jun. 29, 2001, 11:26 AM
I know very well that I am going to get flammed for this, but here I go. It makes me sick to think that our US horse community ( or at least a great number of people on this thread) could be this petty. I have kids who come to work at my barn at 6:30 every morning because their parents can't afford to pay for shipping/leases/training/lessons. These kids work so hard, and some are extremely talented, most will eventually make it into the rings of the A shows. They always look good at shows, they will however not have "monogramed" collars, custom boots, or custom hats, I am sure they will not pay a fortune for matching trunks or the latest fashion ( whatever it may be at the time it will pass). They will not walk out the ring and hand their horse to a groom, they will get up at the crack of dawn ( or earlier to bath, braid, graze or flat their horse). I can't believe that you can blame your snob views on the fact that it is a traditional sport. Tradition is not a "rider" learning to perch and look pretty ( monogramed collar and all) on a made $250000 horse. Tradition is real Horsemen. Let's try to develop traditional horsemen, that can actually ride. Not fashion consultants who will look very pretty perched on a horse I am sure ( they will even have great trips after the poor horse has been lunged for an hour, shown by the trainer, loaded on meds and had no time off because "we are chasing points").

Jun. 29, 2001, 01:46 PM
I totally agree with sallylou. Every show my mom, sisters, and I all get up sometimes way before the crack of dawn to ride down horses, braid, bathe, clean the stalls, give the horses grain and water. Some kids that I compete against just show up to sit on their horses and ponies, go around a few times, and leave. I think the kids should work to earn the right for them to show. If their parents pay for the entry fees, the kids should do the rest of the work. I am very thankful to have a wonderful "horse show mom" who helps us with the work and also pays the fees. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jun. 29, 2001, 02:33 PM
just like you don't want to be judged by insignificant surface details then please don't do the inverse. Just because you see someone in the latest fashion, with a groom don't assume they didn't work their A$$ off to get there as well.

I have just as big a problem with the "martyrs" who think they are better horsemen just because they lack funds as I do with the "fashion police".

If you pass this attitude on to your students you will be doing them no favors IMNSHO. Teach them to work hard, ride as best they can and to set reasonable goals.

It serves them no good to start blaming their lack of money, not so fancy horse, wrong color jacket when they don't do well. If they ride the best and their horse jumps in good form they can pin above the more privledged (what you refer to as snobs). They just have to accept that they will probably experience the "big win" with much less frequency.

Another thing to recognize is that the show world is really a microcosm of our society. Life is not fair and they will have to face with these same issues when it comes to school, work, etc...


Jun. 29, 2001, 03:20 PM
I don't judge the people who have the money. I ride the A circuit, have the nice stuff, a groom and the nice horses. Which does not mean that I don't work my b... off. I just hate that we can sit hear and talk about stupid pet peave such as monograms on collars as if it has anything to do with showing or riding. Go to Europe and see if you find riders there being as petty, they will more likely be talking about there training methods or something that actually has something to do with riding.

Tha Ridge
Jun. 29, 2001, 07:23 PM
I have 9 horses and most of the time I usually show all nine and ride atleast 4 a day, not only mine. I can't do all the work myself! I have 2 very decicated grooms who love my horses. I know how to take care of my horses unlike a lot of riders with grooms. I know exactly what feed they get, what bit they go in and whatever other extras they need and get this...I DON'T FEED OR TACK THEM UP! People need to quit flaming people who have grooms. If I had only one horse, I'd be more then happy to tack him up but I don't. I apologize for having a Patey hat, TS, Vogel's, monogrammed chokers and Edgewoods. Will you lay off now?!

- Laura /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jun. 29, 2001, 09:32 PM

Whew, you're brave!! And also very lucky /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Question: how long have you been riding & do you fear burnout? 9 horses is a lot . . . ! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jun. 30, 2001, 08:20 AM
Having graduated from the younger ranks and having a groom is a TOTAL different thing from being a little A circut brat and having a groom! I believe that once you learn what it takes to keep a horse, its not a problem to have a groom. Especially when you ride 3+ horses...and not all these people just show up at the ring ready for their leg up....they may be running their courses through their head one last time....staying cool on a hot day, or something else that is important too. I know if I had 3 some horses and I was trying to take care of every last one of them...I'd be too too tired to show!
I think a large portion of the people on this board are groom-less.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I have been here for a few years now, and I rarely see anything that would descriminate against *a rider who can't wear a monogramed color*.....That is just ridiculous....It seems like the people who are out to start trouble are the flame throwers. Maybe they should just keep a bucket of water near them next time they want to say something...
This is not directed towards any one individual.

Jun. 30, 2001, 09:04 AM
My problem with people?

1. People who cannot ride at all, but think a new jacket and custom, monogramed, equipment gives them the right to belittle anyone they choose. Learn to ride and and work on yourself.

2. People who are jaded because they do not have the money for certain things and jump on a soap box condemming people and situations they know nothing about.

3. Self appointed critics who judge riders, horses, divisions, etc,and make comments and generalize with obvious ignorance and lack of knowledge and yet themselves could never accomplish half of what they criticize.

4. People who cannot accept that people have differing views, and yes certain things are just wrong and others are right, but those who find ridiculous offense to trivial and unimportant matters.

Tha Ridge
Jun. 30, 2001, 09:59 AM
sparkles. i totally agree with you...

Jun. 30, 2001, 09:45 PM
Go Moesha, go Moesha.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jul. 1, 2001, 10:40 AM
at a show looked like this. Her hat was perched on her head crooked with an elastic chin strap, coat 2 sizes to small in black. As you can imagine the pulling when it is buttoned. A pink ratcatcher also too small so fat belly is exposed when worn. Rust breeches, too big. Rubber riding boots, too big, ugly horse with long uncombed mane and bridl with white padding and square filthy saddle pad. I know there was more but this was the highlights!

If you can't beat 'em, try harder.

Jul. 1, 2001, 01:25 PM
I can't tolerate an ill, lame or significantly underweight horse being asked to do anything but get well.
Whip marks
Bloody spur marks
"Stomping feet" at the jumper or hunter ring
Dehydrated or hungry horses

And I can't stand a horse being punished for not doing what it's told - when it doesn't understand the question! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Jul. 1, 2001, 09:21 PM
Well, for a long time, when I was first getting back into showing at schooling shows, Yes I would AGHHHHHH, wear a sleevless white ratcatcher and navy blue devonaire breeches! Don't tell anyone. I see pictures of it now and just hang my head in shame. Oh, and I wore a show bow once, AGHHHHHHHH, I know, just shoot me. Then one year I decided to be fashion queen and do all (and only) the right things. I got into monogramming everything and buying only the best of everything horsey. This isn't because I am a snob or think I am better than everyone. it was to instill confidence which I sorely lacked and still do sometimes. And I think it is plain fun to dress up and look nice for a change. Now I go back to polo shirts at schooling shows no matter what and nice fine threads at rated shows.

If you can't beat 'em, try harder.

Jul. 3, 2002, 11:09 PM
Show Bow???? Oh no!

A blast from the past... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thing I hate to see most: DIRT!!! and I don't mean mud picked up from the schooling area!

Rich or poor, you and your horse CAN BE CLEAN!!!

One Nation under GOD>

Ms. Anthrope
Jul. 4, 2002, 07:43 AM
The only thing that really gets to me is looking sloppy, whether it's the horse, the rider, or both. Wear whatever you want, as long as it's neat, fits well, is clean and appropriate. And make sure the horse is spotless.
Even worse, riders who spent all the time in the world making sure they look perfect and then they show a dirty horse. It's a HORSE show, not a fashion show.

Jul. 4, 2002, 10:22 AM
Working in NYC for a good part of a decade, I've been to many a National Hosre Show and if I hadn't have seen it myself, I would not have believed it.

Let's see, all the horses are braided except one. The "trainer" grabbed body clippers and sheared the horse's mane off seconds before the class started.

What some people will do to their horses as a result of ignorance and/or poor plannning. Go figure...

Jul. 4, 2002, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by georgetowner:
Working in NYC for a good part of a decade, I've been to many a National Hosre Show and if I hadn't have seen it myself, I would not have believed it.

Let's see, all the horses are braided except one. The "trainer" grabbed body clippers and sheared the horse's mane off seconds before the class started.

What some people will do to their horses as a result of ignorance and/or poor plannning. Go figure...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Jul. 4, 2002, 10:49 PM
Have to agree with show bows, hair sticking out of helmet, no hairnet, sleeveless shirts, short boots, etc as being turnout no nos! But here is one I haven't seen! I think it looks like you're half dressed when you don't wear a belt with your breeches!!! (Looks very out of place when you are walking around w/o jacket or if your jacket comes up over a fence and there is no belt!)

Life is a one time journey, so make the most of it!

Jul. 5, 2002, 07:47 PM
whats every1 got against stock pins...at least u can actually see them unlike the monogramed ones...y waste money on somethin u cant see??

Jul. 5, 2002, 10:26 PM
I wake up early to school my horse, muck his stall, water him, etc. at shows. I do not hand my horse to a groom when I'm done, I don't even show the "A's". But I am always turned-out as best as possible when I walk into the ring.

Being turned out well does not mean that you are a snotty brat.

I have cheap boots, but they shine and are taken care of like no other. I have 7 show shirts, all bought with my own money (5 of were bought used). I have 2 pairs of Tailored Sportsmans, though one pair was my birthday present and Dover sent us the second pair on accident. I bought my Royale with my own money. And my hair is always under my helmet as neatly as I can put it up there (I am still mastering this one!).

Your turnout is the judges first impression of you, period. If you are impeccably turned out, the judge will expect a good, or at least decent, round. If you ride into the ring dirty and unkept, the ride will expect not as good of a round. It's a fact of the horse show world, accept it.

Yes, there are good riders out there that have not so good turnout. And yes, there are horrible riders out there that have the best turnout you will ever see. But face it, in the hunter and equitation world, TURNOUT MATTERS.

*ErinB Wannabe*

Jul. 6, 2002, 03:49 PM
If the rider can move his/her horse to the first jump with some PACE, he/she could be naked, in rubber boots, with a show-bow, and a big, fat, ugly skunk-helmet and I WOULD NOT CARE.

(Watching parts of a recent A show has left me jaded.)

Jul. 6, 2002, 04:00 PM
I don't like those whitish/tan gloves...fine for schooling but not at the shows...also when you can see boot socks (soem are rather vivid in color) above the boot...not a little, but some people have a lot showing, and know it also


Jul. 6, 2002, 06:29 PM
Ok...I am a turnout fanatic:
Definite no-no's:
show bows
dirty boots/ill fitting boots
tall boots on small kids
no hair nets
all the normal faux pas...
AND A BIG ONE...the whole pony tail thing. Good Lord, let's maintain some semblence of tradition!

Celtic Witch
Jul. 7, 2002, 03:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Go to Europe and see if you find riders there being as petty, they will more likely be talking about there training methods or something that actually has something to do with riding.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where? Who? Cause I sure as hell don't show against any Europeans like that. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I've said it before and I'll say it again, most of the riders I jump about could learn a bit from North America regarding turnout.

My horses never go to a show without a gleaming coat, white white white socks, immaculate well fitted tack and with the rider groomed just as well. The only jumpers who do not wear braids are the two who quite frankly look like idiots in them.

I show against many people on fuzzy, dull coated horses with manes that wanted pulling three months ago, scraggly pony tails, and horrible tack which hasn't even been cleaned for the occasion. If these people could ride like the Pessoas, I wouldn't care, but praying your way round a course and then immediately parking on the rail to watch the rest of the class isn't my idea of good horsemanship.


Jul. 7, 2002, 03:57 PM
Oh so many where do I begin!
1)dirty tails (knotted up/shavings/bad braid job)
3)unbathed gray
4)colored bats/crops
5)Black Tack ( belongs in dressage)
6)A ton of Make-up on some riders (pass chizel)
7)*people not ready when thier turn comes

this list could also go on... but these were top of my list

No matter how good the horse looks, somewhere someone is tyred of cleaning up after it!

Jul. 7, 2002, 09:12 PM
im sorry guys, but the clean horse thing is a definate pet peeve of mine!! can people not keep there horses clean or what? i understand if its really muddy out or something but if its a dry day, why does the horse look like its not been curried for a month?>

i have a paint, and its super hard to keep him clean. but i try my hardest, and it usually turns out ok. i mean, those shower-in-a bottle things are lifesavers and there are also products like BABY POWDER!!! hello!!!! if the socks are dirty just slap some on! its not that hard!!!