View Full Version : For all of you more, ah, "dated" riders.. care to reminisce?

Dec. 19, 2000, 07:03 PM
I was thinking today, as I looked over a horse book from the 1970's, how things have changed. For example, how the kids used to wear just plain old hunt caps with elastic thingies. And of course the rust breeches. And flat bridles, and none of the saddles had padded flaps. Since I wasn't born until 1985, and didn't start riding until lonnnngggg after that, I was wondering what it was like back then. What kind of saddles were "the fad"? Did Warmbloods exist in the hunters? Were the divisions/classes the same? Etc etc etc? Do tell, I'd love to know what it was like! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dec. 19, 2000, 07:03 PM
I was thinking today, as I looked over a horse book from the 1970's, how things have changed. For example, how the kids used to wear just plain old hunt caps with elastic thingies. And of course the rust breeches. And flat bridles, and none of the saddles had padded flaps. Since I wasn't born until 1985, and didn't start riding until lonnnngggg after that, I was wondering what it was like back then. What kind of saddles were "the fad"? Did Warmbloods exist in the hunters? Were the divisions/classes the same? Etc etc etc? Do tell, I'd love to know what it was like! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dec. 19, 2000, 08:52 PM
Let's see-
RUXTON, RUXTON, RUXTON- my fave hunter of all times!!!Breeding anyone?
Prix de Saute seemed to be the saddle of choice-my first saddle was Jeffery Welles' outgrown 14"one
hmm-yep- rust breeches
same light glenplaid jackets, but trimmed in coordinating velvet, which OF COURSE, matched your hunt cap with the elastic thingy- if you had the brown hat & collar- brown field boots were de rigeur
There were some rather outgoing "ladies" who rode AU NATURAL- sans bra-that is
Underalls were all the rage then ,too- of course those rust(or gray) breeches had to be Harry Hall waffle weave- skin tight- only natural, since our jeans were ,too. Yes, men wore those same tight breeches.

There were tack room parties- every good barn had a blender-or 2- . The Ziffs used to leave the keys in the golf carts at Culpeper- made for great fun, until you borrowed the one that was stuck turning to the right- those stalls have never been the same!!
Same orvis
Same hoof oil
Same glycerin
Same bigeloil
better hairnets-
OOOOH ---!!
Guys had to wear hairnets when certain judges judged!! No flyaway locks!!
hmmm- that is about all this old brain can remember-

Dec. 19, 2000, 09:08 PM
On the west coast we cut the elastic thingie off of the hard hat.
Had to have a velvet collar on the hunt coat. Does any one remember the Olympic style hunt coats , circa 1974or 75? With the waist line and four brass buttons with the 2 buttons on the back sewn above the single vent? I had a flash back a couple of years ago when I saw a mauve one in a consignment tack store, that I think belonged to a friend of mine. There couldn't have been two of them. (I mean mauve hunt coats not friends). I don't let kids shopping for their first show out fit shop there with out supervision.
Early 70's it was, yes, white harry halls. Thank goodness that didn't last long. I always had difficulty staying clean. Then we went to rust or beige, and grey in the late 70's and early 80's.
Boots were brown field boots.
Shirts were more colorful. I had a nice plaid one and a floral one that didn't look to bad. My trainer didn't kill me for wearing it, so it could n't have been to bad for that time.
Sorry to ramble but I was just reminissing. I never thought at the time that the 70's would be so well out of fashion. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Dec. 19, 2000, 10:17 PM
From this fossil, Stubben Siegfried or Stubben Lohngren saddles. Flat 1" leather bridles. Rust and brown were acceptable. Madras plaid was here or there.

Divisions were 2'6" Warm up Hunter, 3' Novice Hunter (not rated of course), 3'3" A/A's, 3'6' A/O's, 3'6 1st Yr Gr , 3'9" 2nd Yr Gr, 4" Regular Working.

No wussy Short/Long Stirrup, Baby Green, Hopeful anythings. You stayed home until you were ready to show at the given heights.

Dec. 19, 2000, 10:35 PM
We didn't have A/A and no Novice, Long Stirrup, Short Stirrup, Baby or Pre Green.
There were the Juniour Divisions, A/O, 1st and 2nd Year Green, and Regular Hunters with of course the Conformation divisions.
Hermes, Prix de Nations, Stubbens, Passiers, Kieffers. Flat was coming in and knee rolled saddles were going out.
The Velvet collars were coming in and round or rolled bridles were very hot.
My mare was very small so I use to buy thin double bridles from the Saddlebred people and use part of it as a thin stitched snaffle bridle. Complete with fancy stitched cavesson. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Oh and I had been showing with a leather harness in my velvet hardhat since 1965.
My mother bought me one and insisted I wear it when they first came on the market.
I don't recall anyone showing A or knowing anything showing with the elastic under their chins. They would have been laughed at.

Dec. 19, 2000, 11:01 PM
I go back to the boots that looked like Pirates boots with wide tops. Those flared britches like the motorcycle cops wear and tweed jackets, I mean real wool tweed not today's imitation tweed. Saddle was a Stubben Siegfried. Brown was in...and no helmets. More like the 40's for a time line.

Jackie O wore the same old style britches but in yellow the last time she showed in Bedminster. And that was in the 70's.

OH! YES!in the 70's Maiden, Novice,Limit all the hunters for horses were at 3'6" and the difference for the Maiden was really that they had never won a blue ribbon. Ponies went at 2'6" and 3'0". No Childrens, No AA, no pre-green, just Maiden, Novice and Limit for hunters and all equitation until you go to Open. One blue ribbon qualified you to ride at the Garden in the Maclay even from New Jersey. At 3'0" the ASPCA had the Henry Bergh but it was only offered at unrecognized shows.

Classes were $5.00 each, and the show made sure that there was plenty of time between classes, Usually had one in the morning one around lunch and the last late in the afternoon. Lot's of time for fancy tail-gate parties, cocktails and making friendly conversation. We all set up lovely tables under our canopy with flowers and chairs. Imagine we even used dishes and silverware for the food we brought.

[This message was edited by Snowbird on Dec. 20, 2000 at 02:12 AM.]

Dec. 19, 2000, 11:10 PM
Oh I still have my brown tweed custom made jacket.
It is lovely. I especially adore the collar that has the piece and button to turn it up and fasten in bad weather.
I don't have any of the olde breeches though, haha, pre velcro some of those were. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Dec. 19, 2000, 11:15 PM
Yep the britches were gabardine and had no stretch that's why you needed those flared hips to make room when you sat in the saddle.

Dec. 19, 2000, 11:46 PM
... 1971, when I won my jr. eq. class at Indio (back when it was held during the Riverside County Fair and the National Date Festival). The same styles popular then held for about a decade: brown Dehner field boots, longer-styled huntcoats, contrasting chokers, and my fave--- REAL sheepskin saddle pads. The pads were cut so they just outlined your saddle, and were a plain and simple sheepskin with billet straps. If you were really daring, you'd get one that was really floofy! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Warmbloods were virtually unheard of. The few that were imported were jumpers, and very old style, heavy-boned types. In fact, those were the good ol' days when a fancy-schmancy horse would beat you in the hunters and the hacks, but a kind, consistent horse that jumped in good style would earn a decent paycheck. I think there were a lot more Quarter horses and non-TB's competing and winning. I think we did a lot of riding off our eye, and getting in the exaggerated two-point out here. Trainers would line the rail and just yell to their students, "Gallop! Get your butt out of the saddle and gallop!"

By the early to mid-80's yes, we had the velvet collars and the rust breeches. As for riding styles, that's about when the GM two-point/crest release thing took off, at least out here.

Finally, in agreement with some earlier posts, there weren't any "low" classes like we have today. Hence, in general there were fewer people showing. I mean, the shows were big, but we didn't have the HUGE county level shows we have now, because there weren't any entry-level classes. You and your horse jumped 3'6" or you didn't show. Period. But no one thought much about it. I remember when the 3' Am Adult division started up, my friends and I thought, "What the heck is this? Some wussy division?" And now, of course, here I am showing in it! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 19, 2000, 11:54 PM
And I still have my beloved Siegfried Stubben saddle...

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:14 AM
Ditto the Stubben Siegfried - I loved that comfy thing! I always felt that I could ride ANYTHING in it.
Once you were out of ponies you went 3'6. Period!
OUTSIDE COURSES!!! None of that sissy counting strides stuff - you galloped down and waited.
Black patent tops on your boots.
When the weather was cooler (I grew up in Fla) you wore a tweed riding coat and a sweater. No vests, ski jackets, etc.
Newmarket boots in summer.
Headgear optional.
Little bow things on shirts.

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:25 AM
Reading fancy Chronicle picture ads for made show horses that went for $2,500.

For you midwesterners: the Marshall Field's Custom saddle.

Showing a horse in hunters on Saturday that you actually took foxhunting on Wednesday.

Riding your showhunter at a gallop over a 3'6" course that included stone walls made of actual stone, brush that was actually growing, and rolltops that looked big enough to bank!

Having our "trainer" (the term wasn't really invented yet) drop a bunch of us kids off at a horseshow whereupon we tied our horses to a tree, entered our own classes, did our own braiding, jumped a couple of practice fences if we felt the need, and generally had a great time.

I am sure that consistency of performance is greater today, but the fun quotient is no where near what it was!

[This message was edited by baymare on Dec. 20, 2000 at 08:39 AM.]

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:33 AM
What a hoot, this brings back "good old times"! Isn't it interesting how much fashion does change in a sport that is based on "tradition".

Cinco de Mayo
Dec. 20, 2000, 05:44 AM
Even in the late 80s things were different than they are now- everyone wore gray breeches, solid white shirts (no stripes), and braided their horse's mane with the yarn color coordinating to their jacket. (ie, navy yarn, navy jacket) And of course that was when the ASTM approved helmets were just starting to be popular and they were VERY Large. Mushroom-like.

Also, in pleasure and U/S classes a LOOPY rein won, now it seems like judges like light to moderate contact in flat classes.

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:47 AM
and the Crosby Prix de Nations. I bought my little sister a child's Prix used at Gayers in Fairfax for $90.00. Last week I saw one just like it on a consignment rack in Middleburg for $550. (They are over $1,000 new now) Hang on to those Stubbens, Crosby's, Passier's and take good care of them. They are worth more now used after 20 years of riding in them than they were to begin with.

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:52 AM
Now, Jumpsalot, you know the Welles didn't let you wear that elastic thingie anymore than George let us. You stuck it up inside your hat because if you cut it off the cut ends showed.

There was a period when the cool look was to have the hunt caps match your coat and coordinate with your boots: green or brown coat with brown boots and cap; blue coat, blue hat and black boots. The coats had to be Pychtley.

What was really great were the outside courses. Then you really had to gallop.

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:53 AM
I recall going to lots of shows where the classes from each division were scattered throughout the day, not back to back like they are now. And you usually had an outside course.

Lord Helpus
Dec. 20, 2000, 05:56 AM
Am I really the oldest person on this board? You'all remembering back when there were no A/A's? I remember when there were NO A/O's. And the first time I rode at MSG, there were no juniors! I rode small pony, my middle sister rode large pony and my oldest sister rode working hunter (4') against the adults. Those were the only hunter divisions offered in 1959! The junior divison was added in the early '60's (I rode junior there in 62 and 63 I think) I still have the programs (somewhere).

And the COTH stallion issue: was a bunch of pages of rows of pictures of horses that the owners snapped themselves.... We used to have "conformation classes": first judging a horizontal row, then a vertical row and the "row" winners got into a "page winner" semi-final. Then the "page winners" went against each other for a grand winner of each stallion issue. I remember that Sea o' Erin was one of my faves.

And as for favorite hunters, does anyone remember the Duke of Paenon (sp??? <---I was just a kid back then and have never learned ot spell well /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

In the early 60's I rode my junior hunter at MSG (with Victor as my trainer) wearing an emerald green hunt coat and matching emerald green hat (See attached photo -- and think BRIGHT GREEN for the coat. And , YES, that is elastic under my chin.... My mother sewed it in to every hat we had a kids.......)

Does anyone else have these same memories? (I also remember the 70's and velvet collars and velvet patches on pocket flaps. We thought we were quite good looking then..... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

Much Older Adult
Dec. 20, 2000, 06:43 AM
This brings back such fantastic memories. Ring side parking at shows. Great food from the volunteer "ladies". Every show had a different personality. Money in every class, seems like the prize money is unchanged since the mid-70's. No COLA's there. Beautiful trophys. I miss all that.
The clothes were great. Little kids in jods. Flashy linings in our jackets. I remember the colored helmets. I had a navy hat for my navy coat & a brown one for my brown coat. And all field boots were brown. Only mounted police wore black ones.
The shows were so much more low key. I guess it was just a much more simple time.

Dec. 20, 2000, 06:57 AM
What about cordovan boots, newmarket boots, velvet choakers to match the collar (velvet) on your hunt coat...horse braids in the color of the hunt coat...long(ish) hunt coats...flat tack, rolled tack, double bridles on the working horses...oh my..what about "hogs back" jumps, aikens, side diagonal side in the jumper(!!!) classes... touch classes...wow...I am OLD.

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:05 AM
Does anyone remember "bib britches" that had a flap in the front that had a ton of buttons. My sister got a pair as hand me downs and we thought they were so cool. Of course, they were canary color.

My first outfit came from Bevels and Bev himself tried to get my father to buy me a brown hard hat (as they were called then) to go with my blue coat and rust jodphurs! The collar would have had to be brown velvet on the coat too. Would have looked just spiffy with the maroon lining!

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:13 AM
All of these - great reading!!!!

Canary Yellow or Rust breeches or even JODHPURS! - Harry Hall Remember the heel elastic to keep em down in your boot?
I remember Pytchley jackets with velvet collars
Brown field boots that matched your brown helmet
No A/A or A/O
Working Hunters
Pleasure Hunters
Conformation Hunters
Ladies Classic on the flat - sidesaddle class!
Stubben Seigfried saddles
Polo wraps? What polo wraps?
Flat tack
No $5.00 ring
Prize Money A show: $25, 20, 15, 10, 5
Ribbons to fifth
Goldy-brown bell boots only
Double Bridles in all hunters
No chaps
Elastic chin straps - no harness in the show ring

Boy those where the days.

Dementia 13
Dec. 20, 2000, 07:22 AM
Heh-heh-heh, road trippin down memory lane...

When I first started showing (1973, the old McDonough School Horse Show) the style was: hunt coat with velvet collar, velvet hunt cap sans elastic thingie (often the hunt cap was green or brown), rust or grey Harry Halls, shirts with those contrasting floral collars (yeck), brown field boots or black dress boots. Rolled tack was de rigeur for hunters. Many horse shows still had outside courses. I still recall doing the Hunt Teams class at the McDonough show with 2 other girls from Oldfields. It was so cool! And its true, there weren't any divisions lower than 3 feet. There was no medium pony division, just small and large. And God forbid, we didn't count strides!

I also remember showing at the Middleburg National when it was held at Foxcroft, on the grass. Got my first A show ribbon there.

Winning horses during the 70s -- God, there are too many to even remember, but the stand outs were:

Early Light, Touch the Sun (late 70s or early 80s), Ruxton, Rivet, Vim, Vital Victory, War Dress, San Felipe, and what was that horse owned by Bruce Duchossois?

Ponies: Even Gamble, Shendandoah Opal, Easter Sunday, Dresden, Dressing Drink, Snow Goose, Gina-Dee, Miles River Moonglow, Checkmate, Imari, Farnley Sir Roger, Farnley Nimble.

Anyone from Virginia remember the ponies Farnley Flint, Almost April and a black pony owned by Mo Dana and Mrs. Dillon that won everything in the late 60's or early 70s?

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:25 AM
Yes - velvet on the jacket coller, L.Hunt bridles, Phase V (from The Saddle Shop/Bernie Cohan), Hartly Apollo & Hermes flat saddles, velvet hunt caps which came without any elastic/chin stuff, Harry Hall britches, TBs were THE ONLY horses to have, outside courses were REALLY outside courses (solid natural jumps, big and long courses). Ohhh....those were the days!

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:26 AM
I loved Ruxton!!!! Saw him in the working hunters at the Garden in the early 70s. What an amazing horse!

I had canary breeches, a hunt coat with a velvet color, cordovan field boots, a Prix des Nations saddle, hunt cap with elastic that I didn't wear under my chin, velvet chokers, stock pins, etc. Also had grey Harry Halls, hunt coat with gold buttons, etc. The outside course at Fairfield was my favorite.

The brown field boots still sit in my closet waiting for a comeback....

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:55 AM
Just reading all your posts bring back wonderful, fond memories.

Remember Belvoir Saddle Soap bars for 25 cents?

The madras plaid jackets, the drop-front breeches(someone previously called them 'bib')canary and tan full flare (non-stretch) gabardine breeches followed by a sensible rust. If you did wear black boots they HAD to have the patent leather cuffs. The old forward seat saddles even before Stubben Sigfrieds. My first Sigfried was $250 new! Marlboro boots for about $28. Newmarket boots.

The open shows were dominated by Saddleseat and Western. The few hunter classes would be hunter hack with a mandatory handgallop and 2 fences (usually at least 3' and more often 3'6"). If you showed hunter hack, you couldn't show english pleasure(I remember a bunch of us rebelled and showed up in western pleasure!). Open jumping fences started at 4' and jumpoffs were raised to 4'6'-5' and timed (if the show committee could find a stop watch!). That was as low as they got. Certainly no place for a green horse/rider combo to start out. And I'll bet a lot of us posters started there!!!

Very few tack shops. Miller's, Kaufmans, Deluxe Saddlery and a few more had catalogs that were our bibles.

Anyone remember when dressage shows were dominated by tb and everyone who didn't have a tb, complained that that was all the judges ever picked. Very few warmbloods and what there were were mostly trakeners(sp?).

Gosh, I could go on forever. How lucky the young riders are today with all the safety equipment, lovely low jumping classes to start out with, stretch breeches that (usually) don't split in the crotch.

One thing I will say tho that to watch a hunter class with their navy coats and tan or whatever color breeches they wear is sooooo incredibly boring. No flair, individuality, color. But one must go along with the crowd.

Many thanks to ErinB who started this thread which allowed us 'oldies but goodies' to remember the good old days.


Dec. 20, 2000, 07:56 AM
i was beginning to wonder if i was the only one to have canary breeches. Apparently not! Does anyone remeber the "robin's egg blue" breeches?
And, boots had that little leather strap on the top of them that you buckled and then tucked inside the boot. (Wonder why Vogel doesn't offer that?!?)
Obviously, you wore jodphurs if you rode a pony, and you made sure that your chocker pin was on straight before you went into the ring. If it was muddy on your outside course, you did a mudknot. You're right... none of that counting strides business, you either saw your spot or you found another, less gracefull way to get over the fence!
In NC, the Raleigh show was held at Dorton Arena (this was in like 1980 or so, before the new facility), and there were always a bunch of birds swooping around.
i really don't recall any jumper classes to speak of, either. Ponies did their heights, and large and small juniors did 3'6", no questions asked, and very few other options were there.
Maybe it was just me, but our horses would gallop over the courses, but then again, like somebody said, they'd been hunting a few days prior to showing, so they were used to it!

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:00 AM
it's neat to see how much showing has changed! I wonder what everyone will think when in like 30 years us juniors will be talking about the '90s like this /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Dec. 20, 2000, 08:06 AM
I thought I was the only person in the world who remembered Deluxe Saddlery. I actually tracked these people down while on a horse buying trip to Baltimore 25 years ago.

And, Specks, you must not be quite as old as I am because, in the beginning, there were Open Jumpers at the Raleigh show (which at that time referred to the Lions Club show, a multi-breed show. The horse arena just doesn't have the ambience that Dorton did.

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:09 AM
but what about colored yarn and pom-pom's for the ponies??? Yes, I was six, and there wasn't anything else over jumps less than 3'!!!!

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:15 AM
but what about colored yarn and pom-pom's for the ponies??? Yes, I was six, and there wasn't anything else over jumps less than 3'!!!!


Sorry, souldn't get it into a different file!!!!

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:20 AM
Ahhh, Stubben.

I still have a Stubben Tristan saddle that I bought donkey's years ago used from a woman in my boarding establishment who thought her riding would be improved if she bought a more expensive saddle. It is a Stubben that was actually made in Germany. Although it is a dressage model, I have jumped at least four feet many times in it. I will never part with it.

I also had the kind of britches that had to go to the dry cleaners every time they were worn.

Dementia 13
Dec. 20, 2000, 08:22 AM
I have a picture of me at the Tralee horse show with my black pony braided in this hideous yellow yarn. Oh Lord, the 70's were not a stylish time....

Still have my Crosby Prix de Nations -- wouldn't ride in anything else!

Jumpsalot -- are you still in touch with the Welles family? Ellen has one of my ponies!

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:34 AM
madras jackets - yup - my first - blue plaid
button-front breeches - yup - in fawn worsted
colored braids - yup - in stable colors
outside courses - yup - gallop 'n' go - and in-and-outs set 1 for horses and 1 for ponies and the smalls were allowed to take 2, since they were set for larges
colored hats - yup - never had one (although my black faded so that everyone thought it was brown 20 years later when I was still wearing it!) - REALLY wanted a hunter green one - one young woman in KY made her own (recovered black ones - had every color in the book! - I was so jealous!)
rolled bridles - didn't like 'em - I did same as someone else mentioned - bought a saddlebred bridle and used that, but replaced the rein with a braided (not laced!)
regulation heights!!! - yup - see head nodding vigourously with "if you couldn't do the height, you stayed home 'til you learned how"
FUN - YUP - see head nodding even more vigourously in agreement with need for more fun and more breaks
division classes split up throughout day/show - YUP - this is a necessity if we're to attract spectators
elastic hat bands - I believe these were ONLY on the velveteen hats - I never saw a velvet one with them unless they were put in by hand
Marlborough boots - in the $25 range - all my students bought them, wore them just enough to start breaking them in, then we took them to the shoeman who took them in a little in the lower leg and added a plain (NOT PATENT) cuff - and voila - custom boots for $35 max.
Jumper ring - there sure were jumpers on LI - Neal and Uncle Max, Danny and Little Scubbie, Harry & Snowman, Riviera Wonder, Windsor Castle, Ira and "the carat horses" - and tons of others I can't remember now
A/Os - that got pinned for getting around in reasonable style while managing to keep their owners on board

so much fun...... aren't memories wonderful?

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:38 AM
Great picture, PamM!

Note, no saddle pad, no stirrup pads, probably a sewn in bridle!

Also note the near perfect line of the automatic release!

Loved those tweed jackets with the belvet collars - loved the velvet collars on the formal jackets, too! Velvet collars are coming back in abroad - or never went out, perhaps.

Ties - if you didn't have a choker and didn't want to wear a stock. I had some wonderful ties!

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:41 AM
Wrong, ccoronios. I never had a velveteen hat in my life. My black hat didn't have the elastic thingie, but both my blue and brown ones DID.

I, too, used to get the saddle horse bridles and reins because they were skinnier. I'm still looking for a replacement to a rein I had in the 70's - plain rein w/ a raised front. I do not like laced.

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:53 AM
From when I was showing in the late 60's through the mid-70's....
madras and floral chokers
striped shirts
coats in all different colors and materials, including plaid
rust and canary breeches
Custom Dehner brown field boots and black dress boots
Pariani saddles
Rolled bridles
Helmets without headgear
Never riding with a helmet unless I was showing (NOT a good thing, looking back on it now...) /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Custom shirts from C.O. Gooding -- anyone else remember those??
Big outside hunter courses
Hunter team classes
Appointment classes
Never jumping a fence lower than 3'6" in competition during my show career
Juniors and Amateur/Owners competing successfully in Green and Open Working Hunter classes - they weren't the exclusive domain of the pros way back when
Open Working Hunter classes that exceeded 4' in heighth
Open Working and Conformation classes with way more than the now typical 3-5 entrants, same with Green Conformation, and 1st and 2nd year Green Working
Automatic releases
Bridle Path Hack and English Pleasure classes
Table I touch/rub classes for the jumpers
Lots of TB's (many OTTTB's), Warmbloods almost nonexistent
No baby green hunters, pre-green hunters, short and long stirrup, children's hunters, etc.,in recognized shows
Nice silver trophies, often times presented by little kids, beauty queens or Boy Scouts (I have the pictures to prove it!)
Braiding our own horses, with overalls put on over our show clothes
Fun exhibitors parties

[This message was edited by dublin on Dec. 20, 2000 at 12:02 PM.]

Dec. 20, 2000, 09:04 AM
I started showing in 1965.

Ringside parking at every show (even Devon!) and when the shows ran late--no lighted rings--management asked the cars to turn on their headlights.

The must-haves then: Stubben Siegfied Saddle (usually worn with no pad at all); custom made bridles from England; flared gabardine breeches which soon gave way to fitted Harry Halls, canary usually, occasionally rust; Vogel boots with patent leather boot tops; NO shadbellys on children ever ever; ratcatcher shirts with contrasting chokers; and yes, I had a madras hunt coat, too. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Grooms that came from Ireland and knew everything. What a luxury that seems like now.

Small and large ponies only, heights at 2'6" and 3". Outside courses at almost every show, often with real stone walls. Courses that always began with a brush jump. Appointments classes that required hunting crop, sandwich case, and string gloves tucked under the girth (even on ponies.) Divisions that had either four classes (three over fences and hack) or five (including a model) and that was ALL you did--no schooling classes, long stirrup, warm-ups, low hunters, etc.

My favorite ponies of the era (can you tell that's what I showed?) Large: Pride n' Joy (mine /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ), Prim n' Proper, Thorwell, Rebel, Hot Shot Kid, Rommel, Neat n' Tidy, Flying Mouse, Serendippity, Chimney Sweep. Small: Wizard of Oz, Highfield's Town and Country, Chantilly, Squeaky, Midget, Driftwood.

Wow, this brings back memories.

Dec. 20, 2000, 09:07 AM
What fun to know that there are more people than just me that misses the outside courses. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I still don't count strides (except for an in and out) and use my eye and feel to get to the right spot. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tralee was the BEST! I think she still runs the shows in the summer and WITH the outside course. Last I saw her a couple years ago we were following Casanova Hunt in a car. Other than drooling over her old show hunter pictures we got to talking about showing in general. She said that she hated to see the outside courses go and whether people like it or not, she is still keeping hers. If you don't like it, don't ride there was her philosophy. I love it! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Oh, yes, colored yarn and pom-poms! Velvet collars, rust jods and flat bridles. I still like a nice flat bridle in a thinner look than the hunt bridle. I also love the real sewn in bit and reins.


Clarke County
Dec. 20, 2000, 09:11 AM
What a great topic!
Anyone remember in the late '70's when the junior divisions at A shows was so big that if you had a major fault (eg. a rail down) you were "bleeped" out and didn't get to finish the course? Happened to me once at N.C. State Fair (yes, the old Dorton arena), and they blew a LOUD horn (like a car horn) - how embarassing!

Dec. 20, 2000, 09:12 AM
One thing no-one else has mentioned- NO saddlepads in the show ring. Saddlepads were considered a "shortcut" to keep the bottom of your saddle clean, and were NOT acceptable at a show.

Another big no-no was field boots. They were just for schooling, but not acceptable in the show ring. And that may be one of the reasons for boot straps. Fewer people had custom boots, and even custom dress boots tend to slip down if you have a high instep. The bootstrap (fastened between the third and fourth BUTTONS on your canary non-stretch, peg-legged britches) kept the heel of you boot from slipping down.

(Modern aside, in an emergency situation- custom boots fell apart, I needed SOEMTHING to show in next weekend - I bought a pair of off-the-rack dress boots that were a bit loose round the ankle.instep. I decided that boot straps would help. The boots still have the loop at the back, but NOBODY sells boot straps. I ended up buying a pair of spur straps and using them.)

I never had anything but a black jacket. I was in Pony Club, and you needed a black jacket for the rally, and my parents couldn't see any point in buying TWO jackets we were just going to outgrow. (Other kids had a all sorts of light coleored and bright colored jacets, as well as real tweeds.) I had a variety of solid colored shirts (white and pale yellow are the ones I remember). But where we really went wild was with the chokers. All sorts of different colored prints. I particularly remember a gray silk one with little red and yellow diamonds on it. NOBODY wore a solid colored choker. And you HAD to wear a stock pin or similar with it. If you didn't, the choker would rotate around your neck so the buttons were in the front.

Our hard hats were black velvet, with a black elastic strap which was of no use at all. Adults showed in Derby's in the hunter classes. And anyone who was not on the hunt staff who wore a hard hat with the ribbon DOWN would be laughed off the grounds.

For Pony Club we had to wear white cotton gloves, but we didn't wear those for showing.

At many recognized shows (and the one I remember in particular is the Bedford Whip and Spur on "old" Mrs. Tucker's estate) ALL of the hunter classes took place on the outside course. There was a nice flat spot about half way round the course where they held the under saddle classes. It could get a little hairy at the hand-gallop, which was ALWAYS called for in the under-saddle class, followed by a "hold hard."

Only the equitation classes were held in the ring. But there were ENOUGH equitation classes to keep the ring busy all day. Maiden, Novice, Limit, Open, Medal, Mclay. Under 12, 12 to 14, 15 to 17. Leadline. But no short stirrup division. And I don't remember any walk trot classes at recognized shows, only at unrecognized shows.

The hunter classes for Juniors (sorry, I didn't pay a lot of attention to the Seniors) were Small Pony (2'6"), Large Pony (3'), Junior Hunters (3'6"). For the adults, all I remember was First and Second Year Green (Working or Conformation), and Regular Working and Conformation. That was IT. No "children's", no "Adult's", no "Warmup", no "Schooling", no "Pre-Green". At some of the bigger shows there was a separate "Local" division, but they jumped 3'6" too.

The outside course was probably between 1/4 and 1/2 mile, taken at a "hunting pace"- i.e., a gallop. Fences I remember were post and rails (and a "closed" post and rail in-and-out), stone walls with riders, brush jumps which were living hedges, Aikens (used to scare us, but the horses loved them). Many courses had definite Uphill and Downhill sections.

When I started, everyone used flat tack, but by the early 70's rolled tack had become the fashion. Saddles had lots of knee rolls (suede), and often had thigh rolls too. The Stubben Siegfreid was the saddle of choice then, though the Hermes and various Crosbys became pupular in the 70s. I got a Passier All-Purpose for my 14th (I think) birthday, which I still have, and sometimes use, today.

Jumper classes started at 4', and speed classes were just coming into common use. Every show with jumpers had at least one "touch" class. I still rmember seeing Tony Ambrosio SENIOR before he figured out that GALLOPING between the fences (but going the LONG way) was NOT the way to get a fast time.

More later probably. I have to join a conference call.

Dec. 20, 2000, 09:29 AM
I never showed because I was afraid at over 3'6. Went to lots of shows with friends who had horses that could do both hunters and jumpers, and I remember pretty much what Janet and PamM remember.

Does anybody remember moleskin breeches for men?

The first stretch breeches were just coming in when I quit riding, and they were Helanca from Switzerland. Everybody yearned for a Pariani FS saddle, and the Mexicans ruled the International Shows with Colonel Morales.

If you had a black Melton coat, it wasactually melton fabric, and it did have the button at the neck for holding the collar up in icy weather.

Custom boots were pretty much Dehners, and they lasted and lasted and lasted. Every town had a cobbler, so you could get your off the shelf boots customized, as someone else mentioned.'

You never saw an adult woman in anything except a derby hat, unless she had a top hat and sidesaddle.

People still staghunted with hounds, and lots of women rode sidesaddle for that.

Knock down and outs in the jumper classes. And fences in those classes that got REALLY, REALLY big. Time didn't count. A totally different style of riding for jumpers and hunters, and that was a NEW thing.

Don't remember any show horses that weren't either grade or TB. No warmbloods, no QH's.

Dec. 20, 2000, 09:40 AM
I remember ooing and ahhing about it, the most expensive saddle on the market at the time (I'm pretty sure--at least in the catalogs it was) as $2500!

And as to Stueben's. Please! To this day, I still cringe at the extra padding the Seigfried (scuze the spelling, if it's wrong) needed in back so that the rider's leg wouldn't jut out in front like sitting in a chair. Comfy and secure, absolutely. Fostering a good position, egad!

And what about personalities? I've got two--no, three--for you:

Rodney Jenkins and Harry DeLeyer (the Galloping Grandfather). Oh, for the days when our stars had PERSONALITY!

The third? Tad Coffin (w/ Bruce coming in second and Conrad Homfeld in there, too, if only just for the record). Oh, those gorgeous blonds!

Horses? For me, it was Jet Run and Balbuco.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
For more info, email: sportponies@horsecity.com
Shameless signature plugplugplug.

Dec. 20, 2000, 09:42 AM
Or were those two the early eighties? I don't recall.

Oh, and the Professional Horseman's Association. I don't know why, except that my boss was pretty active in it, but it stands out in my mind as an important and very functional organization back then. I recall Gene Mische played a major role and I specifically remember how they'd take up collections or whatever if someone got injured or died.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
For more info, email: sportponies@horsecity.com
Shameless signature plugplugplug.

Dec. 20, 2000, 10:08 AM
late 70's---what a classic!!!!!!!!! (horse too, but i'm partial!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kennett Square
Dec. 20, 2000, 10:09 AM
The horse that won so much for Bruce was a beautiful mare named Kim's Song.

Dec. 20, 2000, 10:16 AM
PamM, what a great picture - I don't remember your memory being so good!!

Kim's Song was indeed Bruce's nearly unbeatable A/O hunter - was anybody else at her retirement party during Washington? She was in her own little paddock (and own little world, due to being drugged to the gills) in the hotel while we all partied around her. It was a legendary party and Bruce was a terrific host.

All my other memories have been mentioned here as far as attire and tack - I once bought a beautiful racehorse bridle (double stitched) from Miller's and it was my pride and joy - it was so cool.


Dec. 20, 2000, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wrong, ccoronios. I never had a velveteen hat in my life. My black hat didn't have the elastic thingie, but both my blue and brown ones DID.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I stand corrected. I had only ever seen them on velveteen, although I do recall Kip's picture in George's first edition and it stands to reason she would have been wearing velvet.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm still looking for a replacement to a rein I had in the 70's - plain rein w/ a raised front. I do not like laced.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After some freight train ripped the skin off 4 fingers with laced reins, I never rode in another pair. However, conditioned braided reins are wonderfully supple - but haven't looked for them in a million years..... I think I recall the ones you describe - sort of like a thin pencil line sewn on top of the rein to just about where a running martingale ring would be?

Dec. 20, 2000, 10:45 AM
Yep! It was a thing of beauty. It actually replaced the braided rein on my show bridle because it was 'slippery when wet'. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 20, 2000, 10:55 AM
Yes, Under Saddle, Over Fences and Outside Course made up divisions, and the outside course had drop jumps!

NinaL aka Chrissy
Dec. 20, 2000, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> RUXTON, RUXTON, RUXTON- my fave hunter of all times!!!Breeding anyone? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By Abundance (Hanoverian) out of Nobody Much (TB).

Bred by Al Steiert (sp?). Abundance was one of the first warmblood stallions imported to this country. According to a friend of mine who worked for Al Abundance was so even tempered that you could drive him paired with a mare.

My friend rode Ruxton right after he was broken. You could call her fortunate but she said that he was pretty tough and prone to stopping. Goes to show you what some good professional rides can do for a horse.


Dec. 20, 2000, 12:17 PM
Pam M you are on my track /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Duke of Paeonia. Like you not sure of the sp. What a grand horse, and have to admit loved Not Always too! Friends have a 33 milmeter of schooling at MSG in '61. It's GREAT! They were trying to have this put on video.

Remember those breeches well, you could stuff anything your heart desired in those flaps. How bout those black melton coats, or my personal fav the pinstriped summer coats with matching hunt cap.

Oh forgot, had a Pariani with forward cut knee rolls. We used real sheepskin saddle pads at home. Kept brushing them out with baby powder to keep them clean.

[This message was edited by wtywmn4 on Dec. 20, 2000 at 03:24 PM.]

Dec. 20, 2000, 12:57 PM
What i meant about jumpers years ago, was that i don't remember the childrens, adults, junior/ a/o,low schooling, high schooling, modified, etc and so on that we have today. You're right, they did have the Open Jumper classes at Raleigh!
And, now that the old brain is functioning as it should (which on a good day leaves a lot to be desired...), i remember the entire family going to Charlotte for the Grand Prix they'd hold each year in one of the large football stadiums (which i'm sure has long since been torn down). The temporary stalls were across the road in a park, and the horses went thru a tunnel under a major thoroughfare to get to the ring.
And, my hero of then (and now) will always be Rodney Jenkins and Idle Dice.

Dec. 20, 2000, 01:39 PM
Hunters I remember:
Aldie Belle (I was thrilled when, after I moved to Virginia, I drove through Aldie for the first time.)
Showdown (later Spindletop Showdown) There was a horse that dominated the sport.
Rome Dome

Another thing about shows, clases for each division were spread out throughout the day, e.g.,
Jr Hunters on the outside course
Large Ponies on the outside course,
Small Ponies on the outside course,
Jr Hunters under saddle on the outside course
Large Ponies under saddle on the outside course,
Small Ponies under saddle on the outside course,
Jr Hunters on the outside course
Large Ponies on the outside course,
Small Ponies on the outside course.

Back-to-back classes were UNHEARD of.

You had either twelve or thirteen braids, depending on whether you had a mare or a gelding.

You wore your hair in a hairnet, but NOT "put up" under the hard hat.

Unlike some of the others, I DO remember breeds other than TB (though TBs were definitely the most popular). There were quite a few QH and QH crosses - probably in part because Sunnyfield Farm had a QH breeding program aimed at the "English" disciplines. But these were QHs that looked like TBs, so you wouldn't know unless someone told you.

[This message was edited by Janet on Dec. 20, 2000 at 05:28 PM.]

Dec. 20, 2000, 01:50 PM
In the 60s and early 70s:

You never saw horses with "color" in the show ring since hunters were expected to be Welsh (small ponies) Welsh/TB cross (large ponies) or Thoroughbreds and neither of those breeds came in colors like pinto, palomino, appaloosa, etc.

Hand gallop in every hack class I ever rode in. And you always jogged for soundness, even at the smallest shows.

Huge entries in the pony divisions. The first year my sister and I showed at Devon (no qualifying, you just entered and went)there were 72 large ponies. That led to a rule that if there were more than 50 entered, the division had to be split, which was great for us since we never had to show against each other at the A shows.

Speaking of which, shows were rated A,B,C and unrecognized. Even the biggest--Devon, MSG, Upperville, etc, were just plain A.

Does anyone else remember those wonderful long Island shows, North Shore (actually held on the shore, you could take your horse swimming in LI Sound if you wanted) and Piping Rock?

No qualifying for any shows anywhere, except MSG. The only year we showed there was '67 (last year in the old Garden, with the move the following year to the new Garden, the pony divisions were dropped.) You had to win one blue ribbon at an A show to qualify--though there were many fewer A shows then.

Lots of horses and ponies that weren't "right up to size" in their divisions and nobody cared. Hot Shot Kid and Keswick were two top large ponies who both measured 13.2. Aldie Belle, a fantastic working hunter, jumped 4' with Patty Heukeroth (sp?) and stood 15.1.

I love this topic!

Lord Helpus
Dec. 20, 2000, 01:57 PM
My favorite ponies of the era (can you tell that's what I showed?)
Large: Pride n' Joy (mine), -- I remember the pony. I must remember you!

Prim n' Proper,
Hot Shot Kid,-------Terry Rudd
Neat n' Tidy,
Flying Mouse,
Serendippity, -------Missy Leib
Chimney Sweep.
Wizard of Oz, -------______ Burr

Highfield's Town and Country, -----Brooke Hodgson

Chantilly,---owned by Tanracken Farm. Ridden by Meta Boykin I think.

Midget, ---girl from Conn.

Lord Helpus
Dec. 20, 2000, 02:09 PM
I saw Patty Heuckeroth at the KY Fall Classic this year--she was in for the Futurity--- and I looked and said "Patty, that horse looks like Aldie Belle." IT WAS her granddaughter!!!!!!

And other good old horses: Rome Dome (Kip Rosenthal) and her other WONDERFUL gray horse


General C (ridden By VHV)

Pikes Peak

Old Dominion

Cap and Gown

( Spindletop Showdown became just "Showdown" when he was bought byt he davies and moved to California and ridden by Linda Hough)

Which brings me to : Sutton Place

and Royal Blue (ridden by Bernie Traurig)

Anyone remeber Lisa Joy Rosen with her two matching horses (full brothers): except one was 14.2 and the other was 14.2 1/2. So she showed one in ponies and the other in junior.


Funny story about flap front breeches: I stopped riding when I went to College and started again 10 years later. I went to Flintridge to try horses, and the ONLY breeches I had were Melton wool, flap fronts. I was SO embarrassed when I saw what every one else was wearing! I went straight to the Paddock tack shop and bought new breeches---but Anne Kursinski had seen me in those breeches. (She was a Junior) and lusted after them--she thought they were so cool! So I sold them to her. LOL -- little did she know that I would never have been caught dead in them again!

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:16 PM
Did anybody here show at the Garden in the Children's Hunters? Before they had junior hunters, the division was chidren's (or child's, maybe) hunters. It was 3'6" then!

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:42 PM
These were the owners of the ponies when I was showing with/against them:

Prim 'n Proper: Deborah (Debbie) Bonwit Cahn
Thorwell: Karen Nolte
Rebel: Judy Korn
Hot Shot Kid: Terry Rudd, then Susie Rudd
Rommel: Betsy Snyder (my sister)
Neat n' Tidy: James Hulick, then Gail Hulick
Flying Mouse: Jane Leasure
Chimney Sweep: Cindy Weiner

Wizard of Oz: Nancy & Susan Burr, owners. Puddy Jones, rider.
Highfield's Town & County: Barbara Ulrichson, followed by Debbie Wolfe
Chantilly: Waverly Farm, then Syndy Paul
Squeaky: Syndy Paul
Midget: Nancy Baroody, then Syndy Paul
Driftwood: Gail Hulick, then Syndy Paul

All of the above except Thorwell, Neat n' Tidy, Flying Mouse, and Wizard were at the barn where I rode, All Around Farm in Gwynedd Valley, PA with Junie Kulp.

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:48 PM
Kip Rosenthal's "other" good grey horse was Goodboy Dee, a wonderful Junior Hunter, who later went to Gail Hulick.

Chantilly wasn't owned by Tanrackin (I don't think so anyway, unless it was later, but by then Meta would have been too big to ride a small pony). Are you thinking of their stallion, Chantain? I don't know if he and Chantilly were related or not.

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:52 PM
Alright, PamM, I will try to fill in some of the blanks -

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> My favorite ponies of the era (can you tell that's what I showed?)
Thorwell - Karen Nolte (NJ)
Cockscrow Hobo - Debbie Nolte

Hot Shot Kid,-------Terry Rudd (this pony died in the early 90's at the age of 39 or 40 - he was living at a friend's farm, taking he nephew foxhunting and having a good time til the end)[/b}
Neat n' Tidy one of the Hulicks
Serendippity, Suzanne Smith - now DR Suzanne Smith, following in her Vet Dad's footsteps. Later sold to Amy Ross ---Missy Leib
Chimney Sweep. Nancy Barody? And wasn't Chimney Sweep originally a Highfield's pony?

Wizard of Oz, -----______ Burr(Leslie, wasn't it?)
Highfield's Town and Country, -----Brooke Hodgson (wonderful rider!)


Well, I didn't get many, but some.

And Royal Blue was the absolute epitome of the wonderful hunter!

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:53 PM
My mother made my jackets and had a fit over the velvet collar and pocket flaps. I wanted to make the whole lapel velvet, but she wouldn't go for that.:)

I had a friend with a winter white jacket and a gold breast badge.

I did cut the elastic off my velvet hat.

No saddle pads. I rode a high withered horse whole got a rub from the pommel. My trainer (called 'my teacher', back then) told me to put a sponge under the saddle. I did, but put it under the center of the saddle. I had no clue how THAT was going to help! The poor guy was rubbed raw by the end of the day.

We sewed in the braids with needle and thread. No yarn.

I still have my twenty year old Dehners. Fully lined was the only way to go!

Dec. 20, 2000, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Chantilly - Tanraken Farm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Minor correction, it is Tanrakin Farm, owned by Mrs. Thomas Waller. In the late 60's Buddy Brown rode all of Mrs. Waller's show ponies, but I don't know who rode them before and after that. Dave Kelley rode her Hunters.

I am pretty sure that Chantilly was by Chantain, her 14h2" registered TB, that she crossed with Welsh ponies she imported herself.

She is still there, though she is getting on in age, and is no longer as active in showing. She did have a green conformation horse out a couple of years ago. As far as I know, she never sold ANY of her show horses and ponies (or her husband's race horses for that matter). She kept them on her farm in retirement until they died.

She has some very old fashioned (but mostly admirable) opinions of what constituted "good horsemanship", and very few lived up to them.

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:32 PM
Another minor correction: I rode with Buddy Brown, too (after my family moved to Connecticut) He started on a small pony named Sparkler, then showed large pony West Wind (formerly owned by James Hulick) then moved on to another large, Wennol Bechan (had been shown by Shawn Brittle previously, can't remember the owner's name but they were in VA). After that he showed Junior Hunters and Jumpers with Sourball and Sandsablaze. I don't remember him riding any of the Tanrackin ponies. Meta Boykin was the regular rider for Mrs. Waller.

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:44 PM
Does anyone remember Coupon, owned & shown by Mimi Cummins? Or Cookie Emlems horses? Can't remember their names, one of those SM's /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Lord Helpus
Dec. 20, 2000, 03:48 PM
More memories:

Mrs. Waller lived on Guard Hill Road (which dead ended into McLain St. right at our house). "Old Mrs. Tucker" was our neighbor on McLain Street. and Gay was in my class at Bedford Rippowam. I biked over to the Tucker Stables to ride with Gay......

The Fairfield Hunt Club Show was my absolute FAVORITE and I just loved cruising around that outside course. When I went back as an Ammy and they had divided the outside course into 2 areas (ponies and horses) it just was not the same.

And my mother used to make stall signs and madras chokers to earn "show money" for me to show... I had a pile of madras chokers.

I've got it ladies: for all not already in one of those cliques, we can form the "Madras Choker Clique". You don't have to be old. You just have to have a long memory /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif:D:D

Dec. 20, 2000, 03:51 PM
Great idea PamM....Or we could all wear them, if we have the nerve, to the next show identifing ourselves....

Dec. 20, 2000, 04:05 PM
I lived across the street from the main house at Tanrakin Farm from 1965 until '71 when I went to college. My father still lives there, and I will be there for Christmas. Before we got horses of out own, my sister and I used to "help" the grooms turn out and bring in the retirees.

In that time period (65 - 71), Buddy Brown lived in South Salem, and was riding Mrs. Waller's ponies, in Bedford, for at least 3 years. We used to see him hacking them down the road. I have pictures of him riding them in a local show, and we went into NYC to see him ride them in the Garden, the last year that they had ponies at the "old" Garden.

I am afraid I don't remember the names of the ponies he rode. And I don't know how it fit into the chronology of the other horses and ponies he rode. (What years were the ones you mentioned?) And I don't remember the names of the riders before and after him.

A few years ago, I had a conversation with one of the grooms about Buddy Brown, and how devastated Mrs. Waller was about his even indirect involvement (through his wife) in the insurance scandal.

Dec. 20, 2000, 04:20 PM
I don't know if anyone's posted this already, but what about when today's famous riders were younger? Like Allison Firestone, for example. Anyone remember the ponies they rode?

Did THEY ride in rust breeches? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dec. 20, 2000, 04:55 PM
I can't find the Madras Choker, but I did see a emerald green velvet one in my moms sewing room the other day. Maybe I'll were it at my next show. Since I am only showing at local shows that are unrated I can were those things. After all I did wear a tiger stripe shirt to one earlier in the fall. So a contrasting choker would be nothing. I like to watch the local fashoin police cringe when I show up. Considering they are only about 17 yrs old.

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:10 PM
I don't know that I ever had a madras choker but I know I had a blue madras jacket (even worse!LOL)If I could figure out how to get my scanner working, I'd put up a picture.

Janet, I should have said that I don't know what Buddy was riding at home, only what he was taking to the shows (between '67 and '70.) Becky (Wennol Bechan) was 69-70; West Wind, 68-69. Sparkler, before that(?)

The Tanrackin ponies I remember from that time were two large chestnut mares, Pollyanna and Menlo, and Meta rode them both. Pollyanna was champion at MSG in '65 or '66. Maybe Buddy was on Mrs. Waller's small ponies? (I can picture another chestnut... I just can't come up with a name.)

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:16 PM
I am not that old but can lend some insight into this thread (I also must mention that I had gray jodhpurs and a navy coat with brass buttons. Also, my first year of showing was the first year juniors had to wear harnesses)
**Margie Goldstein used to show the children's hunter I catchrode in the pregreens. She also did another horse in my barn in the first years.
**Danielle Torano (then Laurenzo) always dominated the jr. divisions on Jessica and Aspercel among others. SHe wonthe SFHJA Jr. medal final in 1991. Her now husband Jimmy had won it in 1982.
**Speaking of that final, other notable names that have won it are Daryl Pirtle (Portela) in 1979, Margie Goldstein (Engle) in 1976, and Kelley Farmerin 1989.
**Marley Goodman was the one to watch in the ponies w/ H. Better Than Blue (who had already won a ton), H. Hidden Delight, Private Eye, Pillow Talk...every kid my age wanted to be her, not that that doesn't still ring true
**The top A show barn down here and a true force in the nation was Larry and Trudy Glefke's Road's End...

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:32 PM
You are right - the chin elastic was tucked underneath
Boy do I miss those outside courses!! Charlotte, Tryon, Deep Run,Camden(on the polo field). I remember going to the Charlotte GP, too!!!
How about when the NC State Fair was on the midway?! We would go ride the rides by ourselves- back then- no thoughts of bad things that could happen- except getting sick from one too many turns on the Tilt A Whirl. I remember going to the State Championship at Dorton Arena & having separate schooling times by discipline- boy did it get wild at switchover times! Then at night , we would all go sit in a box, right by the ring. We would all pick our favorite shakytail & whoop it up for that one! It was really cool to get dirt clods kicked up on you!Then came the open jumpers. Boy have things changed in THAT division! Oh, the glory days.....

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>She is still there, though she is getting on in age, and is no longer as active in showing. She did have a green conformation horse out a couple of years ago. As far as I know, she never sold ANY of her show horses and ponies (or her husband's race horses for that matter). She kept them on her farm in retirement until they died.

She has some very old fashioned (but mostly admirable) opinions of what constituted "good horsemanship", and very few lived up to them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

T Whitehead was showing her hunters in the early to mid nineties. If Mrs. Waller is still doing hunters, it is a good bet that T still shows them.

Dec. 20, 2000, 05:53 PM
This thread brings back many great memories. I rode in the '70, I remember velvet collars on hunt jackets, I had a velvet choker to match, rolled bridles, vogel brown field boots and dress boots for appointment classes, appointment classes, outside hunt courses where you could not count strides unless you got bored. I remember at the old Cape Cod Horse Show, counting strides between fences and the striding was 22, you had to ride off your eye! Going to New York City to buy your clothes, because there was no mail order or close tack shops, Millers, Kaufmans and MJ Knoud! I still have my old Passier Century saddle and vogel boots, but I don't ride any more.
Brown hunt cap, without any elastic, braiding with needle and thread and then switching to yarn to match your jacket, usually blue or hunter green in my case. Thanks for the memories!

Dec. 20, 2000, 06:52 PM
... does this all bring back memories!
I remember lots of the ponies being mentioned - gee, Cindy Weiner and Syndy Paul were from near my home ....
How come no one has mentioned any of the Farnley ponies Marianne Steiert used to ride for Mrs. DuPont??? There were a string of them! (and their names all escape me right now!)
I was lucky enough to have gotten to ride Abundance a couple times /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Wow was he fun! I remember watching Al sit on him facing backwards, and sending him over fences .... wonderful horse. Al's son Tony is still standing a son of Abundance.

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:29 PM
One thing I haven't seen anybody mention is how many fewer shows people went to in those days, even the hard-core show barns. There weren't any Florida circuits (or if there were, we up north didn't know about them /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Our showing year started in April with a couple of unrecognized or C-rated shows. In May, we started to get serious--Sugartown, St. Christopher's, Radnor--leading up to Devon. June was busy with something every week--Upperville, Ox Ridge, Fairfield--but in July and August we showed only intermittently (my trainer thought it was too hot to show.) By September when we kids started school again, we were mostly prepping for indoors (often as not at home.) After MSG (or Toronto for some)the year was over.

The older campaigners were turned out for several months. Some of the younger ones went hunting. Others went out on trails (known in those days as "going cross-country") Though horses were started younger than they are now and routinely jumped higher, they certainly didn't seem to break down as often.

Dec. 20, 2000, 07:59 PM
Pollyanna and Menlo sound right. I also want to say "Welland Valley Early Bird", but I think she may have been a brood mare (Pollyanna's dam maybe) rather than a performance pony.

Buddy did show the ponies as well as schooling at the farm, maybe at the same time as his own ponies? I would say 67-69 as my best guess at the time frame.

If I see Mrs. Waller at Christmas I'll ask.

In another post - Mrs duPont had the Liseter (sp?)ponies (in PA or Del). The Farnley ponies were bred (in VA) by the first Mrs. Mackay-Smith. She remarried, but I can never remember her new name.

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:10 PM
Hey, I'm old enough to remember when God invented dirt. I rode western nearly all my life but I remember watching the hunters back in the 70s at the open shows I attended. I always thought the brown Deiners and brown hats looked gorgeous along with the subtle plaid coats the hunter riders used to wear. I also thought those rolled bridles looked pretty nifty on a horse with a nice head.

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:14 PM
Wasn't the first Mrs McKay Smith the horse painter, StClair? She passed away in a plane crash a few years ago?

Dec. 20, 2000, 08:17 PM
Bumpkin are you thinking of Heather St. Clair Davis who died of ovarian cancer last summer?

Electric Chair
Dec. 20, 2000, 08:50 PM
So Easy, Maryann's ponies were the Liseters, not Farnley, Liseter Goldilocks and Lister Gold Coin.

Speaking of Farnleys....no one's mentioned Farnley Sir Roger...who won just about everything with Meg Milone and then Helen Horner.

[This message was edited by Sea Urchin on Dec. 20, 2000 at 11:55 PM.]

Dec. 20, 2000, 10:57 PM
When I showed my 12.3 hand pony I had a medium bright blue wool (like Shetland wool, kinda fuzzy)jacket, pale blue sleeveless ratcatcher, navy blue velvet hardhat and matching navy blue velvet choker (that I put this big fake gold horse brooch on), and I braided him in matching medium blue yarn. Jackets were Pytchley, jodphurs were Harry Hall. My paddock boots were brown pull-ons with elastic on the side and I had these clips that clipped to the bottom of the jodphurs and were basically thick rubber bands that went under the boots to hold the jodphurs down. I wore this big ugly red digital watch (back when you had to push a button and the time showed up in red lights) that I always wore and it shows in my horseshow pictures. Never counted strides. Those were the days! I remember an outside course where you started in the ring, jumped out of the ring over a coop in the fenceline, went around a circuit of cross country jumps, and jumped back into a ring over a different coop to finish. The judge sat on a chair on top of a flat bed trailer in the middle of the field.
When I first did the a/o's there were always like 40 of us and it wasn't all total perfection because, as has been said, you jumped 3'6" or you didn't go to the A shows. So everybody jumped 3'6" - it was no big deal. All the hunters practically were TB's in the early 80's and I excelled in the "non-TB hunter" division with my QH, when it was offered. And it seemed like one class out of every hunter division was a handy hunter class - my QH was great at those too. Sigh.

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:33 AM
All these thoughts about huntcoat colors makes me recall the fashion sense of my youth: I rode a dapple gray and had a powder blue coat. Then I rode a bay for years, and was the first one on my block to buy this creamy light green coat, sort of guacomole-colored, with a dark green velvet collar! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

And what about the fabrics? Remember the flirtation with double-knits? I think that was during the men's knitted leisure suit days, like what Bob Newhart wore on his first sitcom. (I'm really dating myself now, huh?) But I recall having a light blue knit coat, and my sister had a lovely olive green one! But the best outfit was one that my girlfriend Jeanne had: a rust colored huntcoat, rust breeches, brown field boots and a brown velvet hat. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif She was stylin'! In retrospect, she looked like one giant barbecued potato chip. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:46 AM
rolled tack, Pariani saddles, rust breeches, brown Dehner field boots, helmets without harnesses, and nontraditional colored coats (a pale mint green) -- no madras choker though /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif -- here they all are in action in 1972.....


Dec. 21, 2000, 04:37 AM
dublin, is the Westlake Eq. Ctr. the old Coto de Casa center? Hmmmm, and where my dear is your hat? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif These are great pictures!! Wish I could figure out my scanner like the other poster.

Dec. 21, 2000, 05:20 AM
how on earth did I confuse Farnley and Liseter???
All I can say is that my brain is getting older! /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Lord Helpus
Dec. 21, 2000, 05:30 AM
Dublin -- are you the DeeDee of Devon (and Protocol /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) fame??? I bought Protocol from *you* (if it is you) in 1976! (The one I really wanted though was Reality, but another Nimrod A/O got him...) Or was there another top rider at Sterling Stables named DeeDee in the 70's?

Whatever happened to Diane and Johnny Johnson?
Small world!

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:05 AM
Pam M Diane Johnson manages shows in Washington and Oregon Johnny died two years ago.He was a wonderful man and horse trainer

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:32 AM
I also remember a pony named Shenandoah Opal from Florida. Had a white face. Won everything for years in the late 70s I think.

Electric Chair
Dec. 21, 2000, 06:34 AM
Too easy, AHC! Shenandoah Opal w/Joanne Houston!

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:36 AM
Great thread. The white face pony in Florida was Shenadoah Opal ridden by Joanna Houston. Christina S. used to train for Heaven Trees. She also had the large jr. Mumansk. I think they were AHSA pony and horse of the year the same year.

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:38 AM
Westlake Village Eq Ctr wasn't Coto de Casa - my sister was an assistant trainer there, along with Debbie Sands, in the early 80's. It's since been torn down. I'll blame not wearing a hat on my sister, who didn't insist on it!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And Pam, I would love to have been that Dee Dee, but I was strictly a West Coast rider. One of my horses, Gaily Go, was originally owned by Mrs. A.C. Randolph and shown Green Conformation by Rodney Jenkins in the late 60's....do you remember him?

Speaking of Johnnie Johnson, he was my very first riding instructor, at Highland Riding Academy in Portland. I was sorry to hear of his passing, but glad to see they now have a medal class up in Washington named in his memory.

It's a small world, isn't it???? And this topic is just so much fun! /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 06:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Boy do I miss those outside courses!! Charlotte, Tryon, Deep Run,Camden(on the polo field). I remember going to the Charlotte GP, too!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When did you show in Camden? I used to run Wildewood in Columbia and started the Pine Tree Pony Club - showed in Camden a lot!

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl
Dec. 21, 2000, 07:09 AM
Do shows have handy hunter divisions anymore? That, along with the outside courses, is one of my big memories from the 70's and early 80's. I think of that sometimes when I halt after a jump. Seems like I used to be able to halt a lot quicker...
In POny Club we were required to have -and use - the elastic under the chin, but then harnesses were invented, and the big debate was over those plastic chin cups some of them came with...

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:20 AM
The Sterling Stables of the 70's is down the street from my house. Western now:-(
Devon was owned by Florence Fleming, and I recall Protocal, but not the owner.
Diane Johnson is running most of the A shows up here, and doing a great job.
Sara Carter is training and Vicki Lein's daughter was riding at the same stable as my daughter.

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:22 AM
SoEasy, you must also remember all the good ponies that came out of Jack Trainor's barn. Westwood Dinandan and Mimosa seemed to win everything.

I loved the outside courses also. Woodedge in New Jersey was one of my favorites and even the small ponies hacked on the outside course. Huntcap and Sugartown were fun too. I had one of those old fashioned ponies who could jump the moon, but he moved like an egg beater. The most honest, wonderful saint you could ever own. Everyone should start on one like him!

Lord Helpus
Dec. 21, 2000, 07:30 AM
That's right: Florence Fleming owned Devon. I remember when Lyda was doing so well on him. Right from the first FLA show, they cleaned up that first winter. Florence flew in from Washington to see her boy. She was really nice and SO PROUD of him...

It was DeeDee Sung who owned Protocol and Reality at the same barn (Diane and Johnny Johnson's in Wash.)

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:35 AM
Does anyone know if Metamora and Bloomfield Hills in Michigan still have their outside courses? I remember those days of runaways!

Bloomfield Hills had the most awesome jumper ring complete with an automobile parade before and cars parked around the course.

Dementia 13
Dec. 21, 2000, 07:38 AM
Well fooey, Sea Urchin, you must not have read my post where I mentioned Shenandoah Opal and Farnley Sir Roger!

Other notable names:
Brothers Keeper owned by Heaven Trees Farm
Kim Rachuba's wonderful horse Dowdy Feathers
Lord Sutler
Speechmaker and Robin Ann Rost

Do any of you Virginia folks remember Cinda Bailey and her junior jumpers? Can't remember their names offhand, but she and Zoellen Wilmot were my idols when I was 14 or 15!

And before my time but very well known in Virginia:
April Dawn /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:53 AM
Janet, Welland Valley Early Bird is exactly the pony I was thinking of. I used to see her at the shows with Menlo and Pollyanna (weren't all three English imports?)

When Mrs. Mackay-Smith (of Farnley ponies)got married, she became Mrs. Dunning. Speaking of Farnley ponies, does anyone remember Farnley Nimbus, Farnley Icing, or Farnley Galilee?

Handy classes! I used to love those. I remember showing at Sugartown one year in a handy class. Last thing we had to do was pull up in front of the final fence, reach forward and knock off a pole which had been laid across the top of the two standards, back up and then trot the fence (which was now about two feet high.) My sister's pony, Rommel, used to hate handy courses. He was a point-and-shoot pony, hated all that turning and fussing around. So by the time he reached the last fence he was already mad.

He came off the turn and saw what looked to him to be a four foot fence (pole across the top of the standards) in front of him. Obligingly, he speeded up. Meanwhile my sister was frantically trying to pull him up. Rommel wasn't having any of it. He put in a couple of big strides and popped the last fence like it was nothing. Thanks to my father and his zoom movie camera the whole thing was captured for posterity--including the shocked look on the face of the ringamaster. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Electric Chair
Dec. 21, 2000, 07:56 AM
Zoellen and The Woodsman.
Who remembers the great outside course at Glenwood Park when Loudon Pony used to be held there? Great fun!

P.S. Be warned....Moesha will lead you down a path of destruction and sordidness!!

[This message was edited by Sea Urchin on Dec. 21, 2000 at 11:06 AM.]

Lord Helpus
Dec. 21, 2000, 08:57 AM
Oh, Sea Urchin. Do you know Zoellen? I remember seeing a tape of her wedding (from about 1980) -- she married a guy who drove race cars. After the ceremony, she got on The Woodman (in full wedding dress and veil and everything) and cantered a big circle and jumped him over the race car belonging to her new husband!!! It was a stitch! I was laughing so hard I started crying /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by PamM on Dec. 21, 2000 at 12:02 PM.]

Dementia 13
Dec. 21, 2000, 09:04 AM
Sea Urchin, surely not Moesha? He seems such a gracious and gentlemanly person...

And I remember the shows at Glenwood Park. Lovely place! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:05 AM
dublin, if you were in the Woodinville area, do you remember Karen Jensen, rode for Leon Butts, had a working hunter named Gorageous? She later moved to MN which is where I met her. Her mom lived in Tacoma, has since died and I heard Karen moved back to Tacoma. Ring any bells?


Dec. 21, 2000, 09:14 AM
dublin, since you are from the Woodinville area, do you remember someone named Karen Jensen, rode for Leon Butts (I believe he was based in Woodinville) and had a working hunter named GoRageous? She later moved to MN and that is where I met her...Ring any bells?


Dec. 21, 2000, 09:40 AM
Please note:

White linen jacket
Newmarket boots
White very poofy breeches with buttons for the calf (just below the knees) and a buttoned bibb front
12 (maybe) braids on pony
2'6 picket for 12.1 pony
Hard hat with elastic (for all the good it did!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Pariani saddle
Sheepskin saddlepad
Safety stirrups

And, of course, a Highfield's pony!

/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:44 AM
Duffy was from Portland, Oregon. Leon Butts trained in Tacoma at Woodbrook, now Brookwood. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Tacoma is about an hour south of Woodinville.

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:47 AM
But what have you got in your hand that looks like a switch (fake tail)?

Dec. 21, 2000, 09:49 AM
and Fairfax Hunt before Reston and Lake Fairfax.

In the early 1980's, my first husband and I went to the 'chases out at Belmont and then to the Fairfax Hunt Club afterwards. You had to drive around the apartment complexes and Regional Park to get to the club.

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:06 AM
I had my wedding at the Fairfax Hunt Club (4 1/2 years ago) We used a multi-panel post and rail fence as the backdrop for the ceremony.

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:12 AM
Wow! Where to begin!!! I remember (as a kid in the Midwest) elegant horse shws with tailgate parties; outside courses; and no whining! At my first show "away from home", I showed my 4 year old.
...who was also at his first show away from home..in Jr. Hunters at 3'6" and in Green Hunters at 3'6", and since he got prizes in both classes, we post entered in Working Hunters at 4' over the outside course...where we got 3rd. No Problem!!! And in the early fall, we foxhunted during the week, and showed on the weekends.Horses did it all in those days...and it was fun. of course, we only showed about 6 shows a year back then.

And then, after coming out to California...The GREAT summer circuit of fairs...Santa Barbara and Santa Maria (where everyone played outragous pranks on each other...and partied till dawn at the Santa Maria Inn)..The shows then were for all the breeds and disciplines, so we cheered for the Saddlehorses and whooped when the Reined Stock Horses slid the length of the arena on their butts.

And then there was PHC...even now when I show there (it is called Brookside Equestrian Center in this incarnation), I wonder what those walls would say if they could talk!

Oh..and those early Grand Prix at Rancho Bernardo and Ramona...where Rodney cameout and gave us all a riding lesson!

And we all rode TBs..which we used to buy off the track for $800 and then train them, show them and sell them for $7500 and think we were really cool!

I could go on...but I have stuff to do, so I will stop here. This is a great thread...and fun to read...it's nice to know that I'm not the only old fart out there... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But what have you got in your hand that looks like a switch (fake tail)? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It looks like a fly swatter to me, but I don't know why she is carrying it in the ring.

Ruby G. Weber
Dec. 21, 2000, 10:15 AM
Weatherford...sounds like you would remember all those ponies the handsome Saunders boys showed. Snapshot was one and I believe he too was a Highfield's pony.

Highfield's Tulip-Susan Blaisdell. (She had a gray large also who name escapes me.)

Doc Smith was our vet!

And for all you Generation Xer's...I remember leaving for the horse show early enough to MEET THE MILKMAN.

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:18 AM
This was prompted by a post on the "show ring no nos" thread.

Any show with any sense of its own importance used numbers that hooked on the back of your jacket. The only place you saw numbers with a piece of string was 4H shows.

That seems to have reversed now.

Dec. 21, 2000, 10:30 AM
Single (center) vent jackets.
SOOOO much more flatering to the normal female figure.

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:25 PM
Well, that would have made for interesting reading... I just pasted without copying, and y'all would have been treated to a budget bill. Don't tell - COTH BB is FAR more interesting!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Single (center) vent jackets.
SOOOO much more flatering to the normal female figure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're forgetting - we're reminiscing about the times when "normal female figures" were 'allowed' - when size 10 - 12 did not equate with "elephant".

Dec. 21, 2000, 12:37 PM
Love that determined chin Weatherford /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif What a great pic!!! And Saddlebag you are not an old fart, never!! Just an Ole Twit! LOL Blast this scanner is a pain, plus am on hold with Comp USA forever, ugh..Gives me time to read all these great posts. Someone should write a book.

Dec. 21, 2000, 01:18 PM
and check out the (almost) following hand....

I suspect the funky-looking thing that appears to be hanging down is the bight of the reins moving slightly and distorted by the age/pixels.... Looks to me like no spurs, no stick....

Lord Helpus
Dec. 21, 2000, 01:22 PM
Speaking of New Jersey ponies...
"Weatherford...sounds like you would remember all those ponies the handsome Saunders boys showed. Snapshot was one and I believe he too was a Highfield's pony"

AH, the Saunders. My sister was Cardie's girlfriend and Kirby gave me my first kiss -- at a Hilltop barn party (Clarence Nagro--remember him? We stabled at Hilltop from 1950 - 1960) And Greg Saunders --- so sad when he was killed by his cousin.

The two best ponies at Hilltop in those days were Mephisto (Robin Ross) and Dancing Doll (I forget her name but she was as pretty as her pony...) But first Greg, then Kirby won everything on Snapshot (and yes, he was a Highfields pony.)

Dec. 21, 2000, 07:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Do shows have handy hunter divisions anymore <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At WEF there is a handy hunter class for the A/O hunters almost every week. Nothing more complicated than roll backs or trot jumps usually though. They had them for the junior hunters when I was a junior too, for those sometimes you had to get off and jog them over a jump. The only real handy hunter courses left are at Devon and Capital Challenge I THINK for the regular workings.

Dec. 22, 2000, 09:57 AM
Highfield's Snapshot, for sure!
Highfield's Sir Echo (a relative of my Sir Andrew?)
Highfield's Tulip & Susan - my heroes!
Karen Nolte (Thorwell) also had a Highfield's pony but I can't remember the name - my aging brain is deserting me!

Remember Sham (Andrea Kenyon ne Abbott)? Guided Missle (Susan Burghley/ Mallory Blimm) King Farley & Zim's Poconutsmoke (Joy Slater ne Carrier)

Oh, the Zim's ponies - Zim's Sing Along (Patti Brennan - now a lawyer in Westchester, PA), Zim's Black Magic, Zim's Good Looking...

But the Highfield's were the best.

Oh, I was carrying a fly whip - don't remember, must have been the "cool" thing to do - it was a June or July show and the flies would have been out...

Dec. 22, 2000, 03:26 PM
I hope (pray!) I have this picture thing figured out now. It seems like DAYS since we were discussing madras chokers and jackets, but that's what I'm trying to post. (Photo circa 1969)

Dec. 22, 2000, 03:29 PM
A full bridle, too. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dec. 22, 2000, 03:33 PM
And it's a *bleeping* miracle if I may say so myself.

Also, in line with this topic, please note Harry Hall breeches, patent leather boot tops on boots, unapproved hat, hair down--though secured by three hair nets (I have very thick hair) and double bridle on large pony (!) Back then, most people only used snaffles for the model.

[This message was edited by LaurieB on Dec. 24, 2000 at 12:19 PM.]

Dec. 24, 2000, 03:38 PM
Wings, thanks for the comment. I have now achieved scanning ability (I think /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) Here's another old photo (MSG 1967) to see if I actually know what I'm doing or if the first one was a fluke.

Dec. 25, 2000, 12:01 AM
Thanks for sharing the great photos! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Dec. 25, 2000, 07:05 AM
Excellent Picture of you and your horse. THe jump looks pretty interesting.

Dec. 25, 2000, 07:16 AM
I'm glad you like the pictures. I have to admit I'm now feeling inordinately proud of myself for finally figuring out how to do what all the rest of you guys have known forever. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Technology is not my strong suit. (And I still haven't figured out what that yellow band is all about--I think it came from my scanner.)

Re: the jump in the picture. Mostly what you can see there are wings which, way back then, were on almost every jump. As I recall, the fences for the large pony division were set at 3'3" (that's why we're so high in the air). I think the theory was that if you wanted to show at the Garden, you'd better be able to cope and get the job done.

Dec. 25, 2000, 08:03 AM
Hey, not all of us guys can do this picture thing. LaurieB you did very good!! Can't even get the bloody scanner connected properly to try. And your pics are great!!


Dec. 25, 2000, 09:27 PM
Mark my words, the madras coats will return! At least in the blues and tans. Where else do the winds of fashion have to blow? Or are the huntcoat manufacturers waiting for our generation to die off so they can pretend that they "invented" the madras idea?

Dec. 26, 2000, 08:02 AM
Congratulations on getting the picture online. Technology is not my strong suit either, my scanner decides on a daily basis wether it is hooked to the computer. Even if it has not been unplugged. SHould I send it out for training? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dec. 26, 2000, 08:59 AM
Stocking Stuffer, Murmansk, Gozzi, Square Lakes...

Dec. 26, 2000, 09:21 AM
I have a 1/2 brother of Stocking Stuffer (same sire).

Dec. 26, 2000, 01:33 PM
I heard Claridges was humanely destroyed this morning. Chandra?

Dec. 26, 2000, 06:20 PM
Twister- yes unfortunately your information is correct. Claridges was humanely destroyed this morning. He was severely colicing with a probable twist, and the vet's opinion was that he would not survive surgery or even possibly the trip to the clinic in Raleigh. It was decided that it would be kinder not to put him through that trauma, as he was into his twenties.


Dec. 27, 2000, 04:40 AM
I am so sorry to hear it. He was a great horse...

Dec. 30, 2000, 07:21 AM
Oh!!! Thank you thank you!!! I've been trying to remember the name of that pony for years!!! Just yesterday, when I was picking out my horse's feet, honestly, I was thinking about that pony! That was THE nicest pony I ever had a chance to ride. I got the ride on her(?) once for a show at Lake Erie College in the early 70's and had a blast!! Won everything and had a blast. At that time she was at (or, at least I was at) the Chagrin Valley Hunt Club in Gates Mills, Ohio. Jane Leasure, I believe, still owned her.

Wow! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dec. 30, 2000, 05:03 PM
Pinkhorse, I thought Flying Mouse was a wonderful pony (and I was always dying to know where that name came from /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). I never did any showing in Ohio so the only time I saw her was when she came east for North Shore, Piping Rock, etc.

Dec. 31, 2000, 08:04 AM
When I was on the IHSA team at Skidmore in 70's (graduated in '78) we had team jackets made - a fairly bright shade of dark green, velvet collar and a gold lining. Probably looked like a bunch of girl scouts!

And, I'm hanging on to my canary breeches. Some day....

I also have a pair of old flared cotton, button legged breeches that were pulled out of a trunk at the Frontier Nursing Service by a friend many years ago and given to me. I actually wore them xc a few years ago and had some wonderful comments and compliments.

I'm looking at a picture from '74 or so of me and my wonderful big QH at Lake Erie college and it's not looking too outdated except for the Siegfried without a saddle pad and a striped shirt. It's black and white but it's a (now oh so popular) brown jacket. I see I even had the hair-over-the-ears-do down. (He was such a classy jumper) /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dec. 31, 2000, 08:12 AM
We had quite an after lunch discussion of past wonderful horses and riders yesterday. Between Kennett Square, Morrissey and ETBW the names of glorious 'chasers for the past 25 years were remembered once again and their glory days praised.

Cinzano, the Argentinian TB brought to the US and used as a ringer, found out and blacklisted from the track, papers revoked, found a new career as the top 'chaser in the Mid-Atlantic.

Boca Bird, grand old jumper from Buckland Farm when Pleasant Colony was just a proposed mating on paper. Cookin and Lookin, local owner rider champion.

So many great horsemen as well, several hours passed just listening to the list of notables and tid bits of experiences that our fellow forumites had shared.

Kennett Square and Morrissey are an encyclopaedia between them. Throw out a VA/MD name, person or horse, and there will be a link to the two of them. Fantastic afternoon, ladies, and thank you!

Dec. 31, 2000, 03:05 PM
ok ok I am the oldest one here!!!I remember when Upperville had lightweight middleweight(Ithink) and heavy weight hunters classes.Lowest jumps at arated show were 3foot novice hunters.I also remember showing at the old Philomont grounds in Va. over the hardest and highest outside course with a stone wall in and out. Oh and the outside course at Upperville had a post and rail in and out that was 30 feet long and you were supposed to jump it in one stride!!What about those gator leggings in the newmarket cloth and leather on the inside???oh and ill never foget the hunt caps in colors,dark green brown blue and of course black.Man oh man things have changed

Dec. 31, 2000, 06:13 PM
Because we didn't have any Novice classes. You jumped the ht's that most people are terrified of today /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dec. 31, 2000, 06:13 PM
oh god the madras chokers had forgotten all about them OYYYYYYY!!!!!!!
True Blue was in fact wonderful but Kim's amateur horse whose name always escapes me whadaysaythats it!!! was the most marvelous horse I ever saw gallp around Upperville ever!!!Also Riot Free and remember Rodney on that grey horse ?? what was her name ?? the owner always had shades on???

jim geibel
Jan. 1, 2001, 10:40 AM
my first breeches were canary yellow,corduroy with the button flap front. i refused to wear them until my mom showed me a picture of dave kelly wearing the same breeches! i thought they were girls. i rode in a "smith& werthington" saddle and off the rack boots that had enough room at the top for another leg. all this finery was ordered from kaufmans saddle shop in n.y. when i did show i wore the same cloths i wore for hunting. heavy black melton coat in august,yiks!
back then showing was for keeping the field hunters legged-up. now the two worlds rarely meet.

Dementia 13
Jan. 2, 2001, 07:01 AM
I remember the Philomont shows. They were so much fun. I kept my pony at a place very close to the show grounds and we used to hack over to the shows.

Its probably a housing development now....

Lord Helpus
Jan. 2, 2001, 07:38 AM
Attached is a photo if me at the Monmouth County fair HS is 1954 or 1955 (I was 5).

Family lore has it that the judge was overheard saying "I would have liked to have given that little BOY on the spotted pony a ribbon, but he was not using both reins." (Apache had run away with me in the prior class, and mother was not going to let me show anymore that day. I had a major hissy-fit and got my way, but only because mother knotted the snaffle rein and I rode straight off the pelham.)

I also recall that, due to that comment, I no longer let my mother cut my hair with a bowl on my head. LOL

---I wonder how long the lady in the picture has been dead.........

Jan. 2, 2001, 09:14 AM
PamM, great photo! You were five? What age did you start riding?

I love the way that, in those days, even if you were a really little kid they just pointed you at a fence and assumed you'd jump it. I learned how to jump one summer at camp. Having done nothing but crossrails, I bought a horse at camp and brought it home with me. When the trainer at my new barn asked if I could jump, I said "Sure!" (I thought I could LOL)He never asked about my prior experience. He just set up a course of 2'6" fences and off we went.

Jan. 2, 2001, 09:45 AM
Were you thinking of San Felipe (Rodney's grey)? One of my all time favorite memories is watching that horse GALLOP down to the last fence in the hunter classic they used to have at Upperville. Why on earth did they stop having that class? The place used to be packed for it!

Jan. 2, 2001, 10:07 AM
Remember Knoud's on Madison Avenue? It was 2 blocks away from my high school so I loved going in and bothering the sales people.

Breeches were Harry Hall. I had long sleeve shirts (one with brown polka dots) that required cuff links. Brown hunt caps to match your brown field boots. Brown tweed jacket to match the brown boots and hat. Black boots with the patent leather cuff top. Dehner not Vogel as the custom boot choice. Pytchley riding jackets with bright linings (red, if I remember correctly). Chaps were just not done. Velvet chokers and velvet collars on your hunt coats (which were called hunt coats, not jackets).

Ladies side saddle classes over fences. Appointment classes (remember lunch boxes and stitched reins?).
Plaited reins.
Outside courses with huge coops and brush boxes with brush in them.
Bank jumps.
Hunt team classes.
People who field hunted showing and people who showed regularly hunting after Septmeber.
Maiden, novice, limit, and open eq classes.
Non-TB hunter classes that were separate from TB hunter classes.
Quarter horses instead of warmbloods.
Always being in a 2-point.
Galloping for real in hunter classes.
Your "show" horse that did eq, hunters, and the odd jumper class all at the same show and then hunted on Wednesday and Sunday.
Victor Hugo-Vidal's voice booming over the show grounds without a microphone.
Overnight shows that were only 2 or 3 days long.
The L.V.I.S. show instead of the Hampton Classic.

I feel old....

Jan. 2, 2001, 10:29 AM
PamM, your photo is so cute! That pony would win even today. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have a win photo from the Sonoma County Fair show and the lady handing me the plate has on these huge Catwoman sunglasses and a beehive hairdo! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I wonder about her, too, as she's so larger than life.

As for Riot Free, I saw him out here after he was sold to the Bravenders. That girl... oh, don't get me off on a rant, but to sit up in the grandstands and watch Riot Free pack her around, and see her win class after class when... (geez, she could be a poster here???)... let's just say as a talented but financially strapped young teen those were some of my most memorable "life's not fair" moments.

Jan. 2, 2001, 01:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ok ok I am the oldest one here!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet not.... But are you originally from LI or VA/MD area?

Jan. 2, 2001, 06:53 PM
I remember going to Knouds to get measured for my first custom made shirts - and back in the early 70's which type of monograms I wanted for the chokers. THe trip to NYC was 3 hours by train, but it was a once a year trip. together with a trip to Vogels in lower Manhattan to be measured for boots, in those days, brown field boots and black dress boots.

Jan. 2, 2001, 08:27 PM
Aiken ! San Felipe was a great horse wasn't he?? The hunter classic at Upperville oyyy!!! I loved schooling over that big bank what fun !!!! and CC I grew up in md /va area learned about horses there would still be there but POTOMAC fever JUST killed me had to leave! Have been on LONG ISLAND for long time.

Jan. 3, 2001, 04:58 AM
Okay brilyntrip, it's driving me nuts - trying to recall trainers who were in va/md and are now in Long Island! Clues???

Jan. 3, 2001, 06:12 AM
I'll bet that woman is still alive - or, perhaps until recently. Given how small a world it was back, it probably wouldn't take much to figure out who it was - unfortunately, I do not have the software to enhance and figure it out. Some guesses would be Mrs. Slater or Mrs. Valentine, or even perhaps, Mrs. Hofmann.

I will work on it! Seriously - I am curious, too.

Jan. 3, 2001, 06:23 AM
Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going and going and going and going...

Pam M great photo. I love Apache! Don't you miss those shows of your youth? When I was a kid our A shows were mostly Country Fairs or were held in a cow field donated for the weekend. Ah the good old days!
I've also got some of those winners photo's with the ridiculous 60's beehives and bellbottom pants suits. Hilarious!

Jan. 3, 2001, 07:59 AM
Do the Hitchcock Woods still exist? Still hunt there?
We hunted in Camden, but I took kids down to ride there several times when I had a barn in Columbia. Beautiful!!

Yes, isn't this thread fun!!!? Let's keep it going forever!!! There are always newbies to the Board to add their memories...

Jan. 3, 2001, 08:13 AM
Great photo!

Jan. 3, 2001, 09:50 AM
Aiken do you mean that you are trying to figure out who I am??I will tell you that Patty Foster who used to work for Firestones is a successful trainer up here (in fact she bought a house in my neighbor hood last yr).Email me for further infoOK?

Ruby G. Weber
Jan. 3, 2001, 11:59 AM
San Felipe (Fipper in the barn)could be the one you are thinking of at Upperville however, a mare with an owner who always wore sunglasses would have been Market Rise. Both those grey horses showed about the same time.

Jan. 3, 2001, 12:45 PM
Yes it was Market Rise but honestly Rodney at one time had so many great working horses, San Felipe's name just escaped me. All such marvy horses huh?

Ruby G. Weber
Jan. 3, 2001, 01:32 PM
Yeah man! I WAS a division in those days. Another March was around in those days too but he was difficult (to say the least) but he could usually win the hack if Royal Blue didn't beat him.

To me, those were the glory days of four foot horses. The Hunter Classics were truly that. Upperville was the best tho'...with the stone wall at the far end and the bank.

Dementia 13
Jan. 3, 2001, 01:49 PM
Wasn't Market Rise's owner named Debbie something?

Gozzi, San Felipe, Market Rise, and don't forget Early Light (my favorite) -- all great horses but I bet Rox Dene could give them a run for their money!

I didn't know Upperville had a bank and a wall in the old days. Where?

Ruby G. Weber
Jan. 3, 2001, 01:54 PM
The stone wall was in what is now the lower hunter ring (adults, ponies, etc.) It was on the side of the ring nearest Rt. 50.

The bank was in between the two rings.

This would have been in the early to mid Seventies.

Jan. 3, 2001, 01:58 PM
OK, while we're trying to find out what people and horses were and are... Anyone out there that went to Shenandoah Farms in Staunton, Va for riding camp back in the early 70's? Patty and Cindy Brown were sisters who were there. Missy Clarkson (wonderful!)owned/ran it and we had instructors from Morvan Park.

Jan. 3, 2001, 01:59 PM
Speaking of great working hunters, does anyone remember Not Always (also with Rodney), Please Note, and Cowardly Lion (maybe not quite as good as the other two, but I always loved his name. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )?

Jan. 3, 2001, 02:06 PM
Did anyone go to the Pony Club camp/clinic at the GMHA in South Woodstock VT?

Jan. 3, 2001, 02:09 PM
I will bet Weatherford that's Mrs. Slater standing as judge in PamM's picture. Think Mrs. V wore her hair longer. We do know who could tell us if that is she or not.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jan. 3, 2001, 02:16 PM
LaurieB didn't know Not Always was with Rodney. Knew him when he was with Eggy (J. Edgar Mills) Thought Eggy was the only one who had him. Remember when they finally retired him at 21!

Jan. 3, 2001, 02:44 PM
wtywmn, I only knew him when he was with Rodney (this would have been in the late '60s.) He was owned at the time, I believe, by Mrs. Peggy Augustus. Funny thing is, we always thought of him as huge. He probably stood about 17.1. These days he'd just look normal size.

Jan. 3, 2001, 03:58 PM
PamM- I almost bought a pony that just looks just like him! Not to show, just for fun -- I had a show pony, now I ride two show horses for a lady at school, but I wanted a pony that I could canter around on and have fun with! Looked and jumped just like that one!

Jan. 3, 2001, 04:03 PM
He was sold out here to Laurie Gonyea, and trained by Sue and Leon Butts at Woodbrook.
He was a really nice horse, a big dapple gray, Laurie called him Please.
Laurie sold him to Lakeside, who also bought Spindletop Showdown.
Whatever happened to the gentleman who owned Spindletop? Marvin Van Rappaport? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Jan. 3, 2001, 04:57 PM
died, I think, in the mid 70's (although, SoEasy or Wtywmn can probably correct me.)

Real shame, as he had the most wonderful horses - SoEasy got to ride a jumper named Mr. Spindletop after his owner died. Maybe she can say where the horse went?

Clarke County
Jan. 3, 2001, 06:02 PM
Market Rise and Debbie Willson, to whoever asked above. Emmett, where is she now, do you know? The best fun was to watch those working horses when they were allowed to school over that drop jump before the Classic. Why on earth did they ever stop that class? It was a huge crowd pleaser.
A little later, but no one's mentioned one of my favorites, Super Flash.

Jan. 3, 2001, 06:41 PM
Ya'll keep it going! I don't have anything to say since I'm not "dated," but I think it's interesting anyway /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For those of you from the NY area, did any of you know Roger and Judy Young?


[This message was edited by Rockford on Mar. 26, 2001 at 11:02 PM.]

Jan. 3, 2001, 07:01 PM
He rode at the same barn where I started out and owned a bunch of nice horses, usually ones that had been very successful before he bought them--he was the quintissential amy/owner. When the horses arrived, he added Spindletop to their names.(That was the name of his restaurant/night club in New York. As I understood it, it was that business that financed the horses.)

We kids thought he was a very glamorous figure. He would show up at the barn about once a month and the trainer would clear his whole schedule--something that was never done otherwise. He always told us to call him Marvin, not Mr. Rappaport (Van was actually his middle name, though most people erroneously called him Mr. Van Rappaport. I got set straight by his son, Gary Rappaport.)

Please Note was known as Happy when he was in our barn. A big beautiful dapple grey TB. I remember being told that his registered name was Noble Savage and that he was closely related to Native Dancer, but I have no idea if that was true or not. My sister's large pony looked enough like Please Note that the grooms sometimes called him Happy, Jr. Quite a compliment.

Jan. 3, 2001, 08:18 PM
LaurieB, where did "Marvin" ride? I thought Terry Rudd always showed S. Showdown when he owned him. As anyone ever matched that record, even Rox Dene?

Jan. 3, 2001, 08:52 PM
I did not start Jumping/ showing until the '70s after college. Rode western till them.
Keep up the talk and photos.

Jan. 3, 2001, 09:14 PM
Marvin was portrayed to all of reading Judith Blackwell Spreckles HORSES magazine as a very glamorous person with his New York restaurant, etc... /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
I am sorry to hear he passed away.

Ruby G. Weber
Jan. 4, 2001, 06:47 AM
Debbie Willson lives in the Orange, VA. area.

Marvin rode with Junie Kulp's All Around Farm, and yes Terry (and Michael Hunter) were there in those days.

Super Flash was a great horse also and Please Note, both of whom I remember well. Quiet Flight was another from the Not Always era. Great jumper as well.

Another blast from the past concerning All Around Farm...Midge Leitch, now a highly respected vet, was one of the braiders!

Junie was probably the first to set up a fancy tack room and put all the tiny braids in.

Jan. 4, 2001, 07:50 AM
Emmet, I rode with Junie, too. Did you?

Aiken, I don't think that (Spindletop) Showdown--he was shown extensively both with the prefix and without--was ever beaten in the Conformation division in the time he was with Junie. It was highly unusual for him to even lose a class, so I imagine he might have won more than Rox Dene, though of course everyone went to many fewer shows per year back then.

Jan. 4, 2001, 08:19 AM
Laurie, I think you are right - and I think he never lost a class out in California after he was sold there.

Some said at the time there was nothing on the East Coast left for him to win.

I think he was AHSA Conformation Hunter Champion of the year four or five times. Amazing!

Jan. 4, 2001, 08:33 AM
Whatever happened to Lakeside, the stable in California that owned him?
Linda Hough was their trainer, was it the Davies?
Pam M you said you use to ride there, didn't you?

Jan. 4, 2001, 08:38 AM
Yes, the Davies. Laura was best child rider at Devon one year. Pam M, do you know what she's doing now?

Jan. 4, 2001, 10:49 AM
Actually it was Lakeside RANCH (it is California, ya' know!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Laura had the greatest chestnut jr. hunter, On Deck. I'm not sure what happened to her.

Ruby G. Weber
Jan. 4, 2001, 10:50 AM
No I did not ride at All Around but saw them at most of the shows I competed at. Always was in envy of the horses...they always looked so good.

Shiny horses, shiny tack, shiny brass...Brenton Reef, Hot Shot Kid and so many others. That barn was pretty unbeatable in those days.

Lord Helpus
Jan. 4, 2001, 11:13 AM
is the name of the Bechtel family's horse operation. Actually, the Bechtel house is on that big lake in Oakland, while the ranch is down in Morgan Hill . Champ and Linda Hough were, for many years, private trainers for the Bechtels and Sutton Place was on a portion of the Bechtel ranch.

Last seen, Laura Davies was the mother of two children. Bechtel has a policy of sending EVERYONE out "into the field" for several years. Laura and her husband were in Arizona for part of that time (if you are not a family member, "into the field" can be China or Kuwait or just about anywhere else in the world---mostly developing countries in which Bechtel has construction contracts to (singlehandedly) bring the developing nation out of the category of third world country...) I think that the Bechtel children/grandchildren got slight preferential treatment (close enough to home to come home for Christmas), but not absolution from this rigid practice at Bechtel Corp.

For those that do not know: Laura Davies is the daughter of Barbara Bechtel Davies (owner of Sutton Place (the horse) Showdown, Modest Man, Noteworthy etc. etc). Megan Johnstone is the daugher of Shana Bechtel Johnstone. And Abby Dachs is the daughter of Laurie Bechtel Dachs. I believe there are more family members who Linda has trained over the years, but these were the ones there when I was. Megan and Abby are great grandaughters of Steve Bechtel Sr. Laura is the grandaughter of Steve Sr.

It is quite a family. The work ethic in that family is incredble. They are all "do-ers". Last time I saw Laura was on a plane coming back to SFO. She had 2 little kids and she was pushing a "Smarte carte" and organizing luggage and children prior to getting a taxi to her Mom's house. (She also took the time to return the Smarte Carte to the rack and get $.25 back. Impressed the hell out of me.) No "being met by a limo" for this family.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif All of them nice and all of them realistic about hte ways of the world.

I cannot admire the family enough for keeping priorities straight in the presence of more $$$ than any of the rest of us could even dream about.

Electric Chair
Jan. 4, 2001, 11:37 AM
PamM, I would have to agree - I was in school with Laura, and she was one of the nicest, most unassuming people I've ever met. Know if she does the horses at all anymore?

Jan. 4, 2001, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>For those of you from the NY area, did any of you know Roger and Judy Young? Judy and Gary are my trainers....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I worked in the Rochester area a million years ago and Roger was a major force. My fondest(?) memory of him, however, was at a show in Cincinnati where he judged. I was riding a working horse and a 1st year horse for a woman in KY - the working horse was awesome when he felt like it and the most evil-minded dirty SOB I've ever sat on when he didn't. When he didn't trash me in the middle of a fence, we placed well, but that was infrequently. Couldn't MAKE the sucker stop at home - he'd have jumped my car if I'd pointed him at it.

I ramble... Second class....SOB stood on my leg after he trashed me... and Roger walked over to me and in a very concerned tone, asked, "You DO know that you're supposed to finish the course before you get off??" I don't think he heard my answer.

In answer to the unasked.... he'd be rocked back on his hocks, forefeet off the ground - and roll his shoulders back and out....and there I'd be - inspecting the fence - up close and personal.... I quit riding him after that class because he was screwing up my riding the green horse, who was perfectly honest...

Jan. 4, 2001, 03:28 PM
Emmet, Junie was a real perfectionist and a wonderful horseman. If you think the horses looked good at the shows, you should have seen them at home--they looked exactly the same(except for braiding of course.) Even the hooves were painted every time we rode (this was long before anyone knew that wasn't good. In those days Junie was the only one doing it.) I never even saw a horse with a dirty blanket there (and the horses went out all the time.)

The thing I loved most about Junie was that when I arrived at his barn, the greenest kid you ever saw with the pony/horse I'd just brought home with me from camp (we'd been told she was 14.2 and didn't know enough to measure her--we didn't have her vetted either /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ) a mare of indeterminate lineage, little jumping ability and sporting a brand (cowpony not WB!) he never batted an eye. Just gave me some borrowed tack and set about teaching me to ride.

We even took Monogram to some shows--all shined up and braided she was still pretty much of a sow's ear compared to the rest of his stuff. Plus she liked to stop. A lot. First show was a little, unrated schooling show. I found out later that he'd gone to the show management and gotten permission for me to show Monogram in the large pony classes "if she has to try to jump that mare over 3'6" she'll probably die" LOL. (It wasn't like I was going to be taking ribbons away from anyone.) He was a great guy.

Jan. 4, 2001, 03:30 PM
Lakeside (and, later, the renamed Sutton Place) was indeed a name to be feared ... Merry (my sister and another poster here) and I would HATE to arrive at a show and see them already set up. Could pretty much kiss off winning anything of note. But they were always one of the nicest and most helpful barns to be stabled near....

Of course, those were also the heydays of Jimmy Williams (you want growing up tough?? Try spending your junior years riding against Susie Hutchison, Hap Hansen, Anne Kursinski, Francie Steinwedell, Gigi Gaston ... crikey, the list is endless), Judy Martin, Foxfield, the Bushkin girls and Russell Stewart, Far West Farm ... basically, since the number of A shows out here then was extremely limited, we all showed against each other all the time.

And there were indeed some lovely horses ... Showdown, Modest Man, Best Bet, High Fashion, Hard Ice, Joe Hill, Marcus Welby, Stella, Odeon K, Crocodile, Nattie Bumpo, Poetry Man ... another endless list. As tough as they were to go up against, it was an honor merely to stand by the in gate with them. (Even if it WAS in my beloved powder blue hunt coat and wildly flowered ratcatcher with my canary breeches and rust-red-colored Dehners -- the "official" name of that color escapes me. Oh, how I LOVED that outfit!)

Thanks for the memories. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by Beezer on Jan. 04, 2001 at 08:07 PM.]

Jan. 4, 2001, 04:28 PM
Beezer, You just described what Iwas wearing in the earlie 70"s except my boots were black. Mom wouldn't let me get the brown ones.That was the 11and under division, we didn,t have the pony divisions out here then. Some one can correst me if I am wriong about the pony thing, might be having a senior moment.
Those horses you mentioned were great.

Jan. 4, 2001, 04:37 PM
In the spirit of reminiscing, I thought you might enjoy a photo of Terry Rudd, age 16 or 17, at the Ravenhill horse show in Philadelphia (around 1966) Unfortunately I don't remember the horse's name (I believe it was a catch-ride.) The roan in the background with a white face is Wee Ken with Ricki Rothstein (if anyone remembers him.) /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jan. 4, 2001, 05:16 PM
That is just wonderful. Love the breeches and the coat length.

Wish they were still like that to cover thunder thighs and middle aged spread.

Jan. 4, 2001, 05:19 PM
In the um 70s ( boy that was a long time ago) I showed at Upperville My fav place in the small hunters and the A/Os we had to gallop around in the big ring with the trees then jump out over the wall (big solid with cement and rocks thank you) then gallop through the in and out BOY it was very very long and then back in over maybe another wall or a post and rail .There always was this very long in and out along the side where the garnd stand is>>> BUt for the classics you schooled over the bank in the am and that was very funny to watch lik e watching Katie (now Prudent then monahan )and OLD DOMINION canter up to the low part and he never unfolded just landed with his knees still bent and laid over on his side .Jimmy Woffard was schooling director and sniggered at that so I gallped up ( having evented my horse I wasn't worried )Up one stride and down .BIG pat to my horse then after Jimmy said tahtwas good I said Um do "you think I could do the big one?"
And i did !!!
Boy was that cool

Jan. 4, 2001, 05:24 PM
LaurieB, that is a HYSTERICAL photo! I love it! It's the kind of thing I come across strolling through old scrapbooks....

And Rusty, you're not having a senior moment: You're absolutely right, we had no ponies out here back then. Even us little kids (you sound about the same age) had to ride the horses around those big courses. I look at pictures of me about to be jumped off over some ENORMOUS coop and wonder why I'm not dead. We also didn't have short stirrup classes ... I can remember poring over the Chronicles of the day and seeing pictures of kids who'd won such things and thinking, "What the heck is that about? Those kids' stirrups aren't THAT short!" /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My other most beloved outfit: A beige (yes, BEIGE) hunt coat with my RUST breeches. In fact, one of my favorite photos is of me on my most all-time favorite horse, showing in the mud and pouring rain at Santa Barbara, in that get-up. He is COVERED in mud from the chest down (kinda looks like the eventers who get slathered so they slide over those telephone poles), but still jumping in his trademark incredible form, and there I am in my beige coat. And it's SPOTLESS, I might add. I was one stylin' gal. /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Jan. 4, 2001, 07:51 PM
Okay, I'm digging around through the old stuff now, trying to find pictures that show at least a couple of horses or ponies. This one's part of the Large Pony Model at Ox Ridge 1970. From right to left, the ponies are:

Springledge Irish Twig (Lindsay Dugan)
Pride n' Joy (me butt to camera, wouldn't you know...but at least I'm not wearing the madras jacket /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )
Rebel (Judy Korn)
Chimney Sweep (Cindy Weiner)
Prim n' Proper (Debbie Cahn)

Jan. 4, 2001, 07:55 PM
(then I'll go away quietly, I swear /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

Small Pony Model, Ox Ridge 1969. Ponies from front to back:

Moon Comet (owned by Syndy Paul, shown by Cindy Weiner)
Cockscrow Flair (Lucie McKinney)
Chantilly (Syndy Paul)
I think the pony behind that is Driftwood with Gail Hulick, and behind that, Midget and Nancy Baroody. Anyone else have better eyes than me?

Jan. 4, 2001, 08:10 PM
Does anyone have that picture of Rodney(with no hat) on ID over a oxer? I think it was used for some ad in PH. Not sure but somewhere in the mid 70's.

Jan. 4, 2001, 09:07 PM
This has been the most fun thread to read yet. But the pictures are priceless. Please keep posting them.

Here's one I took at a show in Southern Pines [I think]. It's of Dave Kelly after he'd just jogged for first. What a horseman and true gentleman.
His jacket is terrific.


Clarke County
Jan. 4, 2001, 09:11 PM
Ditto to farmgate, LaurieB and others...memories and pictures are priceless - please keep posting them. "Remember" Wee Ken? Who could forget that cute horse?

Jan. 4, 2001, 09:38 PM
Beezer, yes I remember Santa Barbara in the Rain!
On the subjrct of the coats a friend of mine had a mauve one. The funny thing is, I went into a local used tack store a couple of years ago and there was the coat. That was when I started to tell the parents if they insisted on shopping there on thier own that they could only come home with a dark blue, dark green or charcoal coat. Just in case some one wanted that one.

Jan. 4, 2001, 09:46 PM
Remember the team jumpers at Santa Barbara?
Those looked like so much fun. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
It seems like it always was nice for western and rainy for english.

Lord Helpus
Jan. 5, 2001, 05:27 AM
is that Mary Gray's ring? I remember how he would push his hat back on his head. He was truly a wonderful rider and horseman.

Does S Pines still have the winter schooling series? In the 70's, every weekend in the winter, a different person would donate their ring. The show would start at noon and run for about 4 hours (visiting pro's were roped in as judges). No entry fees. No pressure. Just a marvelous way to get young horses into different rings under show conditions every week (alternating open and jr. shows). And the same person who hosted the show would have a party that night. So we would take our horses home at 4 and by 5 - 5:30 be back, still in breeches and boots, for a wonderful open house/buffet dinner party.

People would donate $50 or so for the season to fund ribbons and lunch for the judge. Otherwise it was all horsepeople trading off rings and jumps and hospitality.

And sometimes in mid-week word would spread that so-and-so was having open schooling. That meant that a course would be set up and anyone was welcone to hack/van over and school over the course.

What a wonderful way to start babies. I can especially remember Marie Reynolds trotting jump after jump on her young horses. I would look at them and think "What does she see in that thing?" Then, by summer, they would come out jumping really cute and winning. Remember Sincklefritz, Homegrown, and the "Cat" named horse (Catcando?)?

Stories about Marie and Snicky would make a thread of their own. LOL

Jan. 5, 2001, 05:36 AM
to be able to be an individual back in those days. Sorry that this is a bit of a slam at the current hunter riders but to watch a hunter class is so darn boring because they all look the same. Back in the old days, you could remember that so-and-so had a light blue jacket, and what's-her-name had the blue madras, and whosey-what's-it had the beige and so on. Granted we were never as colorful as the saddleseat riders were! but there was room for personality to come out. I'm probably going to get flamed by current h/j riders but, sorry, that's my opinion. Just another vintage rider sounding off.


Jan. 5, 2001, 05:40 AM
I just came across pictures from the late 70s, in So Pines- Hambone is holding Snickie !! The pictures were taken at Little River (now a golf course). Alvin- with Triton Stables, was holding Easter Lily . Boy did he have a 'fro!!! If I can get my scanner up & running, I will post the pics- they are too funny!! The beehive hairdos are great! I think Patty still wears the same breeches these days. Boy do I still love watching her ride.
The schooling shows are still held- weather permitting. So far, none this season. There is supposed to be one on Sunday- we shall see. At least the ground should be thawed out by then. The are held at Economy Farm, Alicia Rosser is in charge. Classes are $10 and in the jumpers, if you screw up, they will let you go again- for $10. AND if you have a rail, they will put it up & let you jump off anyway!! I remember seeing all of the incredible babies that Marie, Patty, Dave ,etc had at those winter shows!! The competition was always that of the Garden.

Jan. 5, 2001, 05:55 AM
Oh boy, Jumpsalot, does that bring back memories. I can see them all now, especially Alvin with that fro'. Try to post that picture. My goal was always to ride like Patty and my favorite clinics were with her. Dave was a pretty good clinician too.

Clarke County
Jan. 5, 2001, 06:34 AM
PamM, what a great idea - a thread on Marie - what a character! Does anyone remember when the Washington Post maganize did a cover story on scandals in the horse show world, written by Vicky Moon? What a riot it created - blasted everyone and named names. Your mention of Marie reminded me of it because she was on the COVER!! LOL

Jan. 5, 2001, 06:35 AM
Those really were the days. The two winters I worked for Joanie, we attended a lot of these shows/parties. We stayed at Sally Dohner's barn and had a blast. Ree-Ree Reynolds is a hoot, and an excellent horsewoman. Dave Kelley a true gentleman, but lots of fun. L.P. Tate was always making a play for Joanie - if she had wanted it, she could have Starland Farms today!

I also got into the New Year's Eve thing down there. The family (of course, I'm having a senior moment and can't remember their names - stared with "H"?) who had the big feed operation always had a HUGE party on New Year's - I even came down for it twice after I moved to Petersburg with J & C.


Jan. 5, 2001, 06:43 AM
DON'T go away quietly - your pictures are the BEST - except for yours, PamM! Why didn't we ever discuss this stuff during those long hours at the A/O ring with Val???


Kennett Square
Jan. 5, 2001, 07:33 AM
Well I wasn't living there in the 70's, I moved down for almost a year in the 80's. I was working for Patty and was fortunate enough to be working with Hoffy and Neddy at the time. We had several nice Green Comformation horse's, Liz Blatz had 3 A/A horse's and Amy Ilvasaker had the great horse Life's Persuit there too. It was a fabulous time, Gene Cunningham shoeing horses and telling the most marvelous stories and giving impomptu clinics on every topic. Dave Kelly coming by and pointing out the slightest nuances in judging conformation horses. Two finer gentleman never lived. I miss them greatly. Going over to Re Re's house in the winter for all the raucus parties. Brian Lenehan and Don Stewart stealing the police car. All the fun local shows, and not to mention the fabulously outrageous Joey Darby!! To this day if I have a horse that won't give, even though he does know how and is not physically incapable, just stubborn. I practice a little manuever that Joey did and we called it the Joey Darby spin. Just hold hard in one direction and spin the horse as fast and hard as it can go and still stand up. They will give in. A few spins and most horses will unlock that jaw! Oh all the fun days I had in Southern Pines. I really need to go back again. Patty was the best diet I ever had!! What a wonderful classy lady!!

Jan. 5, 2001, 08:03 AM
Hoffy was the best - classy but oh, so funny! Did Neddy come from Hilltop? If it is the same Neddy, I sold her my HERMES (Stupid, stupid, stupid) one Christmas for $350 so I could go home to MN for Christmas. I wonder if she still has it...It was the older version, still the best.

Heukey has the driest sense of humor going and is one of the best hunter riders ever to grace our rings.


Jan. 5, 2001, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>rust-red-colored Dehners -- the "official" name of that color escapes me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

cordovan....I loved mine.....

Jan. 5, 2001, 08:16 AM
The jumper teams at Santa Barbara were fun.
ANd your right it always did rain for the english. I was talking to a friend who showed western and she said she always liked showing there because the weather was good.

Jan. 5, 2001, 08:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Cockscrow Flair (Lucie McKinney)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LaurieB - do you know if any of the McKinneys still ride? I was in KY and showed with them a lot in '70 - Lee and I both had gray 1st year horses.... Frances was showing Jim James Again (VERY funny story about how THAT horse came to be a show horse)... and Tamara was the toughest little pony jock I've ever seen! I loved watching her come through the in & outs (smalls were allowed 2 strides, since they were built for larges) - but no bloody way HER ponies were going to do 2 in a 1. She'd gallop in, sit, stick behind her leg and be right there coming out! I know she got into skiing heavily as she got 'older' - but haven't heard of any of them in years! They were a pretty fun family...

Kennett Square
Jan. 5, 2001, 08:28 AM

I think it was the one in the same Neddy. Very nice girl and had quiet way with the horses. She was great to me and took good care of me on the road. It was the first "far away from home" job for me and she did he best to keep me from being homesick.

Hoffy was a hoot. I remember her skipping down the aisle in the early AM, feeding the horses and singing " my baby takes the morning train..." She was way to perky for me that early. She taught me a lot about proper wrappiong and other "basics" needed for a good show barn. Shw always had a smile on her face and a good joke to tell.

Patty was a task master. I worked long hard hours but learned so much and lost a lot of necessary weight! But boy can she ride and the vast knowledge of horsemanship she has stored away is unbelievable.

Oh to be young and carefree again.....

Lord Helpus
Jan. 5, 2001, 08:43 AM
Is that Neddy Winkhaus you guys are talking about? I went to Ethel walkers with her in the 60's (altho she WAS older --one year-- than I was /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

In the early 70's I was out west at grad school, and did not get back to S Pines much until about 76. My mom's farm has always been my ideal place ---Longleaf Pine Farm, on Old Mail Road (in back of the hunter trial field.) She and it are still there, but now that I have my own place in KY, she comes here to visit (for racing and the sales) so I don't get back to SP much.

Is Jimmy Smeltzer still at the standardbred training center? What a character he was!

I saw Patty H at the futurity finals this Sept. She was riding a granddaghter of Aldie Belle. The filly looked just like her grammy.....

Jan. 5, 2001, 08:45 AM
Great topic- this one could go on forever!

Lucie is still in the horse business- I heard she recently bought a farm somewhere near Greenwich, CT. Her daughter Libby showed quite a bit as a junior and must be 19-20 now.

Jean still does horses as well. She is married (w/kids) to a horseman and they live near Buffalo, NY. I believe they do some race horses as well as show horses.

Jan. 5, 2001, 09:11 AM
One of them, was knitting and selling the most beautiful woolen items.
I purchased a stocking cap for Mallory when she was wee, and a friend had her make a red sweater with her dogs life size in angora. It is gorgeous.
I remember Jim James Again, saw him in HORSES!! haha
Didn't they winter in Tahoe, because of the sking? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Jan. 5, 2001, 09:22 AM
ccoronios, there are two different McKinney families--one from Connecticut (Lucie, Jeannie, and Libby were the three sisters) that MHM already answered about; and one from Kentucky with about six or seven riding siblings. Tamara was one of them, and I wish I could remember the rest of their names. They were all fantastic riders (with really good horses and ponies--Storm of the Glen is one name that comes to mind) but we only used to see them once a year at Harrisburg.

By the way, Tamara was a pretty determined skier too. She made it all the way to the Olympic team.

Jan. 5, 2001, 09:32 AM
Jimmy Schmeltzer was still there last time I looked, which was a couple of years ago. He is indeed a character and always has juicy gossip to share. I once happened upon an old bridle upstairs in his used tack dept. It was a classic, wide, flat sew-in snaffle. Best part was, it had Dave's monogram stamped in the crown piece. I covet the thing.

Was anyone else at Sedgefield the time Dave acquired his prize fighters nose? Back then, the main ring was the bottom one with all the box seats. The "nose job" was a result of the conformation horse he was showing misfiring off the ground and swimming through the oxer. The lumber flew and the top rail landed squarely across Dave's face. Ouch... [Rodney Jenkins was showing ponies at the same show.]

Marie, what a gem. She was the queen of uninhibited with her surroundings. She'd pull up mid-course [if her lovely darling was having a bad go of it] put her hand on her hip, and begin a conversation about her trip with the judge and people ring side. During the hack that followed one such episode, everyone got into the act. Don [of course] started it then Joey, the judge, and all else followed. Before long a loud conversation was going on as they trotted around.

Jan. 5, 2001, 09:41 AM
Wasn't Tamara the one that broke her back skiing as a junior and continued riding? As I remember their farm was at the end of the runway at the Lexington airport.

Clarke County
Jan. 5, 2001, 09:44 AM
farmgate, TOO funny. I'd forgotten that until you said it - Marie pulling up, talking with everyone, etc. She'd ask people sitting in the grandstands what they thought too!

Jan. 5, 2001, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There was room for personality to come out (in regards to huntcoats and attire) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Must ditto this! When you shopped for a huntcoat, there were so many choices. I had one very successful girlfriend that I stabled with/showed with in the AO division at A shows (as there was no Am.Ad. back then!) and she had a big chestnut with white stockings, and her signature outfit was (get this!) a rust-brown coat with cream lining, rust breeches, cream shirt, brown hat and brown Dehners. And she won everything. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Then there was Natasha Karazissis (of Far West Farms/Karazissis brethern) who was the most gorgeous, olive skinned beauty, and her she'd come into MY equitation classes in her HOMEMADE (by mom) CHERRY RED coat in some sort of semi-gloss fabric, white breeches and white shirt and black hat and boots, and darn if her eq. wasn't perfect. She rode a black horse, by the way. The whole picture was stunning. Sure, she stood out, you had to look at her. But she was perfect. We were total rivals, but she was very nice and a great horsewoman (lady?). We often placed 1st/2nd. About as outlandish as I got was a guacomole light green huntcoat on my plain bay. Not quite as illuminating as Natasha, LOL.

Ah, those were the days indeed when your riding was judged, not your ability to dress in standard military attire. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jan. 5, 2001, 10:13 AM
I'd forgotten about those, Bumpkin and Rusty. But they were indeed grand fun. Do you remember how folks would dress up? A lot of the teams would have themes ... I was always jealous of the kids who got to dress up in their parents' racing silks. There were also sooooooo many different -- and fun! -- classes at the Thanksgiving show that we were on horseback all day long. It's a wonder the horses didn't all go on strike.

And there was nothing like Santa Barbara in the rain and wind and FREEZING cold, was there? It seems like it was ALWAYS miserable! I'll never forget one medal class I rode in a downpour; it was nighttime (how I LOVED night classes -- I felt so "adult" and formal /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) and about a stride out from the first fence, the light right over it blew out. My grand horse never even hesitated; he took the last stride and we jumped, both of us figuring that that fence was out there someplace. We finished the course through sheets of rain and were both absolutely soaked; I could barely hang onto the reins. That is one of my most cherished ribbons -- and it is STILL has the water stains on it.

I think Merry mentioned this already, but those were also the days when many of the A shows out here were held during the big county fairs. Indio, Del Mar, Fresno, Sacramento.... Frankly, the A show riders of today don't know what they're missing. Nothing like being in a hack class at Indio, in front of a PACKED grandstand, and being bolted away with when a camel or ostrich poked its head over the ring wall right in front of your horse. Yes, a camel or ostrich! For you see, Indio in those days, being set in amid the date palms in the desert and all that, always had camel and ostrich races between the horse classes in the afternoons. One wonders what Rox Dene would have thought of THAT! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[This message was edited by Beezer on Jan. 05, 2001 at 01:26 PM.]

Jan. 5, 2001, 10:31 AM
Okay, here are a few glimpses of memories that all of this has stirred up...

-Using braiding yarn to tie the doorknob of Gigi Gaston's motel room door to the outside balcony railing so she'd struggle to open her door in the a.m. before our hotly contested jr. eq. class.

-Forsaking family traditions and eating Thanksgiving turkey dinner at the Santa Barbara Biltmore hotel with your barnmates (albeit dressed up) during the Santa Barbara "turkey" show.

-Hopping on the tram at the Del Mar Fair (during the Del Mar show) to venture into the midway to grab a cinnabun for our horse in an effort to bribe him before his flat class.

-Being in an eq. class at Indio, during the old Date Festival/county fair days, when all the various show divisions were combined. Right after a few saddlebred classes, the grandstands were crammed with "civilians" who were primed to applaud for their favorite horse/rider (as they did for the saddleseat events). But this was huntseat eq., and I was sitting on a keg of dynamite! But alas, I was the crowd's favorite (must've been the guacomole green coat and rust breeches!) so I got all the applause... and bolted into oblivion! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

-Schooling over jumps in the barn aisle at all the A shows. Not done much anymore, eh?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The trainers we had then always carted along portable jump standards, and right there, in the aisleway, we'd canter back and forth over the fences. So what if the ground was hard/uneven/mucky? Or that you were in full view of the judge and the arena?

Must remark, though, that in all honesty, my sister and I were relatively poor kids at the time, showing on the A circuit, on cheap horses, but we were trained well and nicely turned-out, and you know what? We won, especially in eq. and medals. I never felt that we missed a ribbon because we weren't with a "name" trainer, or because we weren't mounted on a Flintridge horse.

Jan. 5, 2001, 10:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ccoronios, there are two different McKinney families--one from Connecticut (Lucie, Jeannie, and Libby were the three sisters) that MHM already answered about; <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aaaah.... I wondered, because I wasn't aware that the KY McKinneys traveled this far east to show (except to the Garden).

Jan. 5, 2001, 10:51 AM
Night classes with the rides all light up and making noise! I rememberSacramento also it always seemed to be 110 out. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Maybe those of us that have been around a while should start a fashion revolt? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lord Helpus
Jan. 5, 2001, 12:00 PM
You must imagine this being told by Patty H. who is a consumate story teller. I was crying I was laughing so hard...

At a show, Patty is judging and the A/O's come in for their hack. Now, Marie always had Josh stationed by the ring to hold out carrots as Snicky came by. It would slow him down enough that Marie could make a nice pass in front of the judge...

But, somehow, for some reason, in this particular class, the carrot trick was not working and Snicky got stronger and stronger until he BUCKED right in front of Patty. Well, Marie knew the class was blown, so she starts training on Snicky. Pulling him up and turning him -- and the rest of the class was still on the "canter" command. Needless to say, other riders in the class were having to jerk their horses up when Marie pulled up in front of them, or turned right in front of them. The class was turning into a demolition derby. So Patty calls the class to a walk and asks Marie to come in and line up. Marie keeps on walking, ignoring Patty. Then Patty has the ringmaster go out and lead Snicky into the center of the ring where Patty tells Marie she must stay, so as not to disturb the others.

Patty calls for another canter and begins to judge that gait from scratch. Then she calls for a walk and a reverse direction. All the riders do, INCLUDING MARIE who walks on out and re-joins the group! Patty is standing there, thinking, "When did I loose control of this class? What do I do now?". But she just gives Marie a glaring look and asks for the second direction gaits. At least at this time, Marie behaves herself and follows the ringmaster's directions for walk, trot, walk canter.

Only Marie!

And I have another Marie story: In an A/O conformation class (when they still held them) I get called in right in front of Marie. Now, my horse was one of the best jumpers you can want, but conformation was not, ahem, his strong suit. So we are standing there, trying to look pretty and just as the judge comes up to look at Valor, Marie asks: "Pam, when did Valor start jumping so flat? Did you change bits or has he always jumped flat as a pancake?" LOL. Its like being asked when you stopped hitting your wife? What CAN you say to that? Especially with the judge 4' away?

And the worst part was that Snicky got moved up over Valor.... Now, Snicky was a nice looking horse and probably deserved to move up over Valor, but it made me crazy that the judge would switch us after that comment of Marie's.

Oh well. Life is not as much fun without characters like Marie around.....

Lord Helpus
Jan. 5, 2001, 12:17 PM
The Lexington McKinneys are Lee, Laura and Ouisha. Ouisha is the one who makes the "to die for" custom sweaters. I got one for my mom for Christmas several years ago. In her silks colors with the farm motif on it. It was the best present I have given her in years.

Laura's farm is known as Stoney Point and she is an agent at the Keeneland sales. She also buys hunter prospects for resale. Lee does racehorses, but if she had a jumper, she would probably go back into the show ring.

mo jo
Jan. 5, 2001, 12:20 PM
Hi Pam I posted a pic of Marie and Snicklefritz on the New Dated riders thread. This thread was so long I figured I would use the new one.

Jan. 5, 2001, 01:53 PM
Beezer and Merry you rode with her until when?
I had met someone who had a lovely big, big bay mare from her.
I often wondered about that mare, her breeding, and what happened to her. Perhaps we can email? /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif