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threedogpack
Jun. 5, 2012, 06:08 PM
how do you fit one? How much room between the bottom of the jaw and the knot? How close should the fit on the sides of the face be?

Sentry Chick
Jun. 6, 2012, 07:53 AM
I've never used one but I did find this site that explains fit.

http://www.calclassics.net/php/learn/fittingABosal.php

OveroHunter
Jun. 6, 2012, 08:57 AM
I've never used one but I did find this site that explains fit.

http://www.calclassics.net/php/learn/fittingABosal.php

One the pics on that site says that you should use a hanger instead of a headstall... Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference?

Please everyone feel free to comment on how my guy's bosal fits him. We only trail ride in it and he goes great in this set up: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10100252101483450.2906417.4923850&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=10100252104517370&set=a.10100252101483450.2906417.4923850&type=3&theater

wylde sage
Jun. 6, 2012, 11:26 AM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Only thing I would add is a fiadore. Maybe a throatlatch since you aren't staying with a true vaquero feel. The hanger is just that, it hangs the bosal correctly, I liked using a fiadore to balance the bosal better but again if it's working for you, carry on!:)

spotnnotfarm
Jun. 6, 2012, 11:27 AM
Hmmm... According to that mine is a smidge to big. Good article!

Bluey
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:27 PM
Hmmm... According to that mine is a smidge to big. Good article!

Look at the pictures of their hackamores here, the one with their hackamore on the middle horse and the other scrolling down:

http://www.calclassics.net/php/buy/bosals/

One reason I don't like so many of them is that, as you can see there, the cheek pieces are way too close to the horse's eye, they should have been hung a bit further apart.
The trouble, that will change how the bosal hangs.
Any little sideways movement of those thick nose pieces move the cheek piece right into the horse's eye and can irritate it.

I think you need to be sure to fix that, so it doesn't happen with your horse.

That and that the thicker bosals are heavy and go bump on the horse's nose when it moves, look at performance videos of hackamore classes, those are alone good reasons not to use them.
If a person is going to use a bosal, get the smaller around ones (but not as small as the bosalitos used with four reins) unless you have a very big headed bronc.;)

spotnnotfarm
Jun. 6, 2012, 08:34 PM
Here is a picture of Grover in his. What do y'all think.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2453683351400.2135517.1531530989&type=3

aktill
Jun. 7, 2012, 12:15 AM
how do you fit one? How much room between the bottom of the jaw and the knot? How close should the fit on the sides of the face be?

The way I was taught (by Richard Caldwell and Josh Nichol) was that in a nutshell you fit one like you fit a good hat. Don't want it pinching, don't want it swimming around.

I like no more then one wrap, a half hitch, and then enough room so that the branches of the bosal touch before the mecate does when the bosal is picked up. No more then 2-3 wraps MAX though or you'll unbalance the bosal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDSIWKmjhBc


If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Only thing I would add is a fiadore. Maybe a throatlatch since you aren't staying with a true vaquero feel. The hanger is just that, it hangs the bosal correctly, I liked using a fiadore to balance the bosal better but again if it's working for you, carry on!:)

Not a big fiadore fan myself. They can help balance a bosal that's too long for the horse and tends to bounce, but they slow the dropoff of the bosal and dull the signal a bit.

And a throatlatch...gasp :D


One the pics on that site says that you should use a hanger instead of a headstall... Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference?


A hanger is just a thin piece of latigo most times, and doesn't prevent the bosal from swinging. A headstall is like what you'd use with a snaffle, and most are WAY too wide to allow the dropoff of the bosal properly. If it's bridle leather or skirting leather and wider than around 3/8", or has a throatlatch, odds are it's a headstall.

If you go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackamore

The top horse is in a hanger (wide one), and the horse with the fiadore is in a headstall.

Horses learn from the RELEASE not the pull, and the clearer/cleaner you can be, the easier their job is.



Please everyone feel free to comment on how my guy's bosal fits him. We only trail ride in it and he goes great in this set up

Both yours and the photo lower down show horses in bosals that are too big, at least in my opinion.

If you take a cloth tape and measure the distance from one hanger point around the noseband to the other hanger point, it shouldn't really be much more than 7.5" or so. Having a longer nosebutton (that's that distance) lowers the hanger away from the eye, but changes the dynamics of the bosal.

Properly, for horses that have trouble with a close hanger to the eye, it should be tied back like this:
http://www.calclassics.net/php/learn/tying_hanger.php

The reason the short nosebutton is a good thing is dropoff speed again. A lower hanger point will make for a MUCH slower dropoff, and dull the response from the gear.

Having the high-set point and tying back gives the quick dropoff, but avoids the eye issue.

Also, the lower branches of your bosal look too long. A long lower branch will tend to make the bosal bounce, but more importantly requires you to make MUCH longer hand movements before you get contact with the jaw if you need to bump.



That and that the thicker bosals are heavy and go bump on the horse's nose when it moves, look at performance videos of hackamore classes, those are alone good reasons not to use them.
If a person is going to use a bosal, get the smaller around ones (but not as small as the bosalitos used with four reins) unless you have a very big headed bronc.;)

Heavier bosals have their place in starting some colts, and can be balanced as long as the mecate is appropriate (same size as branches, good weight to balance bosal etc). Most modern finer bred horses won't need more than a 5/8", but 3/4" have their place I'm told.


Here is a picture of Grover in his. What do y'all think.

Same problems as above. Nose button too long, heel branches way too long.

This is my horse in a 5/8" (first day I had it, so unshaped at that point):
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/Bosal.JPG

In a 3/8" center hung bosalita (normally tie a little higher):
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/Bosalita.jpg

Just my thoughts, but FWIW.

Adam

Bluey
Jun. 7, 2012, 07:12 AM
The way I was taught (by Richard Caldwell and Josh Nichol) was that in a nutshell you fit one like you fit a good hat. Don't want it pinching, don't want it swimming around.

I like no more then one wrap, a half hitch, and then enough room so that the branches of the bosal touch before the mecate does when the bosal is picked up. No more then 2-3 wraps MAX though or you'll unbalance the bosal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDSIWKmjhBc



Not a big fiadore fan myself. They can help balance a bosal that's too long for the horse and tends to bounce, but they slow the dropoff of the bosal and dull the signal a bit.

And a throatlatch...gasp :D



A hanger is just a thin piece of latigo most times, and doesn't prevent the bosal from swinging. A headstall is like what you'd use with a snaffle, and most are WAY too wide to allow the dropoff of the bosal properly. If it's bridle leather or skirting leather and wider than around 3/8", or has a throatlatch, odds are it's a headstall.

If you go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackamore

The top horse is in a hanger (wide one), and the horse with the fiadore is in a headstall.

Horses learn from the RELEASE not the pull, and the clearer/cleaner you can be, the easier their job is.



Both yours and the photo lower down show horses in bosals that are too big, at least in my opinion.

If you take a cloth tape and measure the distance from one hanger point around the noseband to the other hanger point, it shouldn't really be much more than 7.5" or so. Having a longer nosebutton (that's that distance) lowers the hanger away from the eye, but changes the dynamics of the bosal.

Properly, for horses that have trouble with a close hanger to the eye, it should be tied back like this:
http://www.calclassics.net/php/learn/tying_hanger.php

The reason the short nosebutton is a good thing is dropoff speed again. A lower hanger point will make for a MUCH slower dropoff, and dull the response from the gear.

Having the high-set point and tying back gives the quick dropoff, but avoids the eye issue.

Also, the lower branches of your bosal look too long. A long lower branch will tend to make the bosal bounce, but more importantly requires you to make MUCH longer hand movements before you get contact with the jaw if you need to bump.



Heavier bosals have their place in starting some colts, and can be balanced as long as the mecate is appropriate (same size as branches, good weight to balance bosal etc). Most modern finer bred horses won't need more than a 5/8", but 3/4" have their place I'm told.



Same problems as above. Nose button too long, heel branches way too long.

This is my horse in a 5/8" (first day I had it, so unshaped at that point):
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/Bosal.JPG

In a 3/8" center hung bosalita (normally tie a little higher):
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/Bosalita.jpg

Just my thoughts, but FWIW.

Adam

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

I will comment that it is fiador, without the e and that is the generally string that hold the back of the bosal in place and bosalito, not bosalita.
Those could be regional terms, maybe.
My understanding is that bosalito generally meant the smallest, lightest bosals, mostly used as a four rein, not by themselves.
I have a very old one of those, probably over 100 years old, that we did use by itself a few times also, knowing that was not correct.
Ours is considerably thinner than that one.
Yours looks like a small bosal, not quite a bosalito.

How is the one in the last picture hung, as it doesn't seem to have any kind of side checks or fiador behind, just the string in front from the front of the bosal to ? under the forelock?:confused:
I still think that hanging a bosal correctly for good balance puts the side pieces too close to the eye, where they can hit the eye when they move, as they do when training.

I don't remember what you call that string/light leather from the front up, but I have not seen it used much, other than old pictures and seen it used mostly with the thicker bosals.

aktill
Jun. 7, 2012, 09:18 AM
Thank you for the detailed explanation.
I will comment that it is fiador, without the e and that is the generally string that hold the back of the bosal in place and bosalito, not bosalita.

I'll accept the correction of no e on fiador, but bosalita vs bosalito is a regional/preference thing as you said. (www.vaquerohorseman.com).

Fiador being this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiador_%28tack%29

It saves having to tie the reins up if you step of to work by acting like a throatlatch and can stabilize a bosal that's too long, but not particularly required if the bosal/bosalita fits.



Those could be regional terms, maybe.
My understanding is that bosalito generally meant the smallest, lightest bosals, mostly used as a four rein, not by themselves.

The threshold I was taught was that 1/2" and up are bosals, 3/8" and down are bosalitas. Other people have other definitions.

My 3/8" is intended to be use used with a two rein setup under a spade bit (what you're calling "four rein", http://www.elvaquero.com/The%20Two%20Rein.htm). I'm just riding him in it every now and then while my bit is being made, so he's not getting used to both the bit and a new hackamore all at once. We've been a few years in the 5/8", so he's actually lighter in the 3/8" then in the bigger bosal.



I have a very old one of those, probably over 100 years old, that we did use by itself a few times also, knowing that was not correct.
Ours is considerably thinner than that one.
Yours looks like a small bosal, not quite a bosalito.


Nothing wrong with riding in just the bosalita, it's just the next step in the progression of making a bridle horse. You start with larger sizes, and step down progressively from 3/4 or 5/8, to 1/2, to 3/8, to two-reined 3/8", then maybe two-rein 1/4, then straight up with a pencil underbridle. Different strokes for different folks.

There are many different sizes of bosalita, in the same way there are many bosals. The one in the photo is a 3/8", I assure you. Much smaller than 1/4" and it's really just an underbridle used for tying/leading a finished bridle horse, however.



How is the one in the last picture hung, as it doesn't seem to have any kind of side checks or fiador behind, just the string in front from the front of the bosal to ? under the forelock?:confused:

Around the forelock, like this: http://www.calclassics.net/php/learn/tie_bosalita.php

Just has to be done a little differently on an Icelandic, with all his forelock. Looks very funny if you use the whole thing, and you run out of hanger before you do more then a couple of wraps.

Another photo: http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/Bosalita2.jpg



I still think that hanging a bosal correctly for good balance puts the side pieces too close to the eye, where they can hit the eye when they move, as they do when training.

Depends on the horse. I've worked cows, trail ridden, taken dressage lessons etc etc in this setup: http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/Bosal.JPG
...with nary a problem.

Tying back the hanger takes on a few seconds if you're worried. If it's too close to the eye, the horse is pretty obvious about being uncomfortable.



I don't remember what you call that string/light leather from the front up, but I have not seen it used much, other than old pictures and seen it used mostly with the thicker bosals.

It's just called a center-hung or center-tie bosalita. I've never seen it used with anything 1/2" or up, since most horses don't have enough forelock to support that.

You can arrange a center hung hanger so it splits above the eye and goes around the ears too.

The advantage is quicker dropoff for the very light bosalitas, since there's very little weight in those. Disadvantages are taking longer to tie, and being trickier to keep tight on those less blessed with forelock.