Weight Issue II

[CTT]

I find that this is a very important topic to be talking about. Because of the lenghth of the other one I find it important to keep this thread going. I recomend reading the 3rd page of that thread cause I finaly realized its time for us to talk about it on the personal leval. I don't exspect people to tell their story like i did but what is neaded is to find a way to help educate people on what happend when we look to much at the image factor. We need to reach out to people of our industry and let the people know that this needs to stop. I hope people can find it in themselvs and share how all of this has affected you. I know some have already stated but what is needed is for us to get together to stop this and to premote the health and not the image. Ok Ill stop sory but this is a very special topic for me and im tired of waching talented riders thinking they are fat. Its not right.

Other weight threads are:
Weight IV Let’s Act - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001738.html
Weight I - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001146.html
Weight II - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001206.html
Weight III - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001245.html
Weight Essay - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001457.html


[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 06-02-2000).]

[CTT]

I find that this is a very important topic to be talking about. Because of the lenghth of the other one I find it important to keep this thread going. I recomend reading the 3rd page of that thread cause I finaly realized its time for us to talk about it on the personal leval. I don't exspect people to tell their story like i did but what is neaded is to find a way to help educate people on what happend when we look to much at the image factor. We need to reach out to people of our industry and let the people know that this needs to stop. I hope people can find it in themselvs and share how all of this has affected you. I know some have already stated but what is needed is for us to get together to stop this and to premote the health and not the image. Ok Ill stop sory but this is a very special topic for me and im tired of waching talented riders thinking they are fat. Its not right.

Other weight threads are:
Weight IV Let’s Act - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001738.html
Weight I - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001146.html
Weight II - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001206.html
Weight III - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001245.html
Weight Essay - http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001457.html


[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 06-02-2000).]

[Lily]

I agree, CTT. I know that the Chronicle is thinking about an article on drugs and alcohol for its Junior/Pony Issue; I think that that "body image" is an equally important issue that should be addressed as well. Perhaps we could all contribute something; the previous thread has proven that we all have something to say on the issue!
I think Erin said she was going away for the weekend (a well-deserved break I'm sure!) but maybe when she comes back we can have a discussion of sorts about including our concerns in a future issue of the Chronicle.

[Diamond111]

I ride on the A-3, 2, whatever it is now, circuit with one of the top trainers in the country. I show in the big eq, junior hunters, and junior jumpers. I don't consider myself to be overweight...I'm 5'8", 135, size 6. During Florida I was down to a size 4 just from walking so much, sweating so much and exercising so much. I ate more than I usually do, but I burned it all off everyday between riding, running, and everything else. I've been home for almost three weeks now and I have gone right back up to my size 6. That's what I was before FL but now I feel fat because I have been a 4 for the past three months. When I tried to put on my jeans from Florida exactly a week ago today and couldn't get them on I had a breakdown. I didn't realize how much my weight meant to me. I immediately drove to the store and bought the diet pills most of the juniors at my barn take and totally cut down on how much I eat. What hurt the most was the other night when my father mentioned that I had gained weight since I came home from Florida. Since then, I have managed to cut back to just a small dinner a day, and have totally cut out all the other meals, replacing them with diet pills and a lot of water. I don't know, maybe it's the wrong thing to do, but if my father had noticed enough to say something, I'm sure my trainer isn't far behind. I know that if I let myself get fat enough that he/she said something to me I would never be able to live with myself. It's been a week since I've started the pills and 4 days on my diet, and I've lost about 7-8 pounds. Hopefully by the next big horse show and especially for Devon I'll be back down to a 4. I don't necessarily think I'm doing the right thing but if it makes me, my trainer, my parents, and the judges happy, then I will do whatever it takes.

[CTT]

Diamond first thing to look at is how did you feel about yourself before you went to florida. You probubly felt good right? Only after this change you saw yourself as fat. What you need to look at is how this is afecting you internaly. I am a big hater of diet pills. If you want to be that 4 again quit starveing yourself its in no way healthy. Im sure in your toun they have a weight gym that you can go to. you said with runing and everything it helped you loose weight. Don't do what you think everyone wants from you. Do what you want. Im going to say this again its your body not someone elses. Your first objective is not to aim for quick dieting. Try going to the gym atleast 2 times a week and whan your not there try a nice light jog. I bet you have a bike somewhere in that garage. If you are like me and hate joging subsadize it with bikeing. The objectiwe is to motavate you motabalism to burn. Your not going to do that if you starve yourself. Actualy when you do that you are stalling it so that it takes longer to burn what is in your system. Along with the daily exercise ride. Don't do either or cause doing diffrent exrercises cause you to burn in diffrent ways. Another thing is to go to a newtrisionist. I can't stress them hard enough. They can help you develope a good healthy diet so that you get what you needin order for your system to properly work. If you ever need someone to talk to don't be shy you can e-mail me trippe@earthlink.net. That goes for anyone else who wants to talk on a more personal leval or is just too skaired to say it publicly. Im not a biest person and actualy ask the ones who know me. im pritty easy to relate to.

[Cozmo]

I talked to my trainer about what I overheard adn she apologized adn said that I was too skinny. But, I still feel fat! I've been taking diet pills also, adn I started on water pills- which make you pee out all of your water weight. I talked to another trainer and she said it would be a good idea if I lost weight for Devon.

[AMom]

Diamond,

Go back to page three of the first thread and read CTT's post!! You are not eating enough food to sustain your system let alone your activity level. And, speaking from experience, any weight you starve off with such a restrictive diet will come back quickly because it will be mostly water weight and wasted muscle mass. If you feel you MUST be a size 4, please at least consider getting there more slowly and not being a calorie counter/crash dieter jeapordizing your health. I just don't think a size 6 is big!

Parents can be really harsh about weight--mine were. In fact, my mother had me going to the Diet Center at age 9, that's right, 9 because she thought I should be really slim at that age. Looking back I realize that that is when my battles with food began. As a nine year old I already had a whole list of forbidden foods and I developed a very unhealthy relationship with food.

Diamond, please heed CTT's cautionary tale...

I just read CTT's reply to you, Diamond, and I must defer to her! She said it in a much more graceful way than I did. I am rooting for you!

[This message has been edited by CWP (edited 04-07-2000).]

[CTT]

Cozmo read my post to Diamond and apy it to yourself. Again remember its your body. I take it you are young. Im not to far ahead of you, yet I have had some more experience. Doing un healthy things to your body will leave an afect on you for when you get older. If you take proper care of yourself with the right foods viatamins and proper exercise other than rideiny you will see a better person yet find that you have more energie and look grate. When you get rid of excess fat that seams not to be important you end up haveing less nutrision for your muscles to grow. Your main concern should not be loosing it it should be developeing it into other forms. Your main concern should be takeing the corect vitamins that your body needs, Calcium, Magneasum, Iorn Vitamin B12, Bata caroteens, ect. Don't use the stuff along the lines of centrum get each pill in a diffremt bottle so you can take what is neaded. I hate to bring this up but for us feamales doing stuff like this afects one thing that we get once a month. Its called our period. Ok guys laugh at me but for the females when you starve yourself you are also hurting yourself when it comes to this time of month. Your major concern should be to make sure you are eating well and takeing the proper witamins so that when this time roles aroung you have the sustained energy to function. Remember your blood contains many vitamins and especialy iorn. At this time you loose your vitamins so you need to replenis them faster this is doen by adjusting your vitamins. I could go on about more of the problems you do to your body by doing this but Ill wait till my next post to add.

[CTT]

For thoes of you that want to see what eating disorders are and affects i recomend you to take a look at these sights
http://www.something-fishy.org/
for thoes of you that don't see the problems with what you do take a look at this page from the Something Fishy sight. Each candle is in the momorie of someone and a story to go with it http://www.something-fishy.org/memorial.htm
Scroll down and look for a girl by the name of Debroah simone fradin. Read this please! http://www.anred.com/ http://www.concernedcounseling.com/eatingdisorders/eatingdisordersindex.html http://www.eating-disorders.com/ http://www.edap.org/
Take a look at them and read the personal stories in each of them. Sory to skare you all but I find these sights to be important.

[michellek]

Hi! I have been reading this board for a while, and have really hesitated in posting my story, but I decided to help others now. Weight and food are definetly a very touchy subject with me, and I really hope that others dont have to experience what i did. This past year I was severly anorexic. Im about 5'4 1/2 and at my worst with this disease i weighed 85 pounds.Disgusting right??well, I was still riding and showing 5 horses on the A circut, and as bad as I looked, people either didnt even notice, or expressed that they wish they had a body like mine. This definetly didnt help in my recovery, (which by they way I am physically fully recovered, just not totally mentally)to have others admiring my emaciated body. I got so bad that I had to quit for a little bit, and doctors said I was very close to a heart attack and a pound away from the hospital. What was this all due to? Mostly trying to achieve that "ideal" eq/hunter rider body, which as I look back, I already had, at my heaviest of 110.This is very sad that people are wiling to give up their lives (literally) just to fit an image of the sport. Please if u are reading this board and having problems with your weight, get help before its too late-sorry this is so long, but I just dont want anyone else to go through the pain, torture and hell that I went through just for my body to be the way i thought it "should" be. Keep healthy, and most importantly, have fun- remeber thats what this sport is supposed to be?! thanks for your time, and good luck everyone /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[CTT]

michellek Thankyou for shareing your story with us. i hope more start to share and come out of the closet on this subject. Its not something that hapens its a pysical dasise tht can take your life unless you look at options. I thankyou for your story. and I hope others folow in your foot steps. Smile and feel good to be you!

[Flash44]

Diamond, you posted that you dropped down to a size 4 because you did so much exercising and walking and sweating, and you were eating a lot! don't starve yourself, just ADD 30-45 minutes of brisk exercise (get out of breath) to your day! If you starve yourself, your metabolism will slow down and when you start eating again, you will gain it right back. Exercise is the best way to get rid of weight. although i don't think you need to.

[CTT]

sand stone I don't know if you saw the other thread. Read it not once not twice but as many times as you can stand. Then go to Something fishy.com and look threw the sight. I don't expect you to read it all but if you learn anything in the process let me know. If you haven't let me know that too. This is no jokeing matter. Its real life and it can kill. I was lucky to live but the worst is fare from over. I live and wake up every day to haveing to take a pill cause I was too ignorent to know when to stop. I got lucky but what about the next girl who isn't as lucky as me. This is not a jokeing matter and I hate to be crule but I find you and your friends prioraties to be in the wrong place. I know you are thinking I have it under controll and this will never happen but gess what I said the same thing and look where it got me. By reading any of these threads have you not learned a lesson. I know I can't change you but the only way to stop this is to start with you. When you are in your late 30's early 40's ( if you make it that far) you will think back on this thread and think Why Didn't I Listen. See by that point in life your metablism will be so shot that you will retain so much and there is no way to reverse the process unless you do something now. Now I know why this is an important subject. Ok I know I was harsh but Im sory this needs too become not a topic here but a spoken topic all over.

[CTT]

Ok Erin this one is for you. I hope you had a nice long weekend I hope you enjoy what we have started here since I know this is along the lines of what you will be writeing about in the JR issue. I actualy have an idea that i would like you to see about posably make happen. I feel it is important to talk about these isues and posably adding a new colum to the cronicle that deals with these things. I think what would make a grat colum would be to talk about heathy eating habits, exercises, disorders in our industry and maby some personal letters from people like us that have made it a part of life. I find this to be contraversial but it neads to be discussed and WE nead to premote not eating disorders but healthy habits. So what do you think?

[Snowbird]

One of the wonderful things about our sport is the right to individualism. Be what you can be!

I am so depressed reading about all of you and the "image", that is just so wrong. Diet pills instead of food, and pounding your beautiful young bodies trying to fit a mold is very sad.

I speak from experience, I spent the first half of my life trying to gain weight and the now the last half thinking about losing weight.

Every human being has a body clock and it knows what you should weigh. It will do what it needs to do to try and make you survive. If you interfere you are gambling with your life.If you don't eat it feeds on your body fat. When there is none you die. Did you know that it is fat that makes your brain work? Without it all those little brain cells can't communicate. So you'll look right and then be a miserable rider because you can't think and have no reflexes.

1. Is a blue ribbon worth dying for?
2. Who even remembers who won the Medal and Maclay 5 years ago?
3. The fashion people (and I was one) will lie to you to get you to buy! 50 years ago a Size 10, was probably about what a size 2 is now. In cheap clothes it was a size 12, in expensive clothes it was a size 10, why? just to make you feel good and buy more. Marilyn Monroe was a size 14 not a 2, they lied about that too.

Who in the world decided that a skeleton looks better on a horse than a real person? What makes you listen to these stupid people who are probably nice and fat and round? How is it possible for clothes designed for women to look better hanging on a bag of bones? Who has ever convinced you that you can ride better, control a horse better or feel better if you are starved so much you are barely alive?

Stand up for yourselves, your body is a temple that should be cherished and not abused. Not one of you that I have read is even close to a weight problem. None of you sound like food addicts. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and did you ever think that maybe your father was happy to see you back to normal.

If God wanted everyone to be the same he would have skipped the whole birth thing and we would have started with clones. What a boring and uninteresting world this would be if we all looked exactly alike, and we all thought exactly alike and we did everything exactly the same. Individuality is the gift of life. Vanity is it's downfall.

[CTT]

Snowbird you sound like me. Im glad you responded the way you did. You braught up a good point. I thought back to when my mother was young and back in the 50's when she was a teen ager she had an 18inch waist. No jokeing. I even have the belt to prove it. I just wish More people looked at the larger picture. I hope something good comes of all of this. I realy enjoied what you had to say.
after I read you post for the 4th time It made me realize why is it so important to them if they have no weight problem. Because it has been drilled.i find the nicest riders are the ones that are fit, built, energetic,look healthy and don't pass out from exaustion. Im sure Snowbird being such a grate trainer you don't drill people to think this junk. I like to see a healthy apearence. Im sure when this comes in to you barn it is delt with but how can the people who are not lucky to have you get this point across. Any ideas. I realy would like more of your imput

[This message has been edited by CTT (edited 04-08-2000).]

[J. Turner]

Sandstone -- that was about the scariest thing I've ever heard on any horse bulletin board, bar none.

Why are you encouraging someone to mistreat her body, when you obviously KNOW it's wrong.

Obviously what got her to a size 4, was good, honest, hard exercise. Diamond, keep doing that!

Sandstone -- don't be a lemming. Be a leader. Why don't you start a workout group with your friends? Be the fittest and strongest barn on the circuit!

You want a fit horse to ride, right? Not some emaciated thing ... the logic should follow.

[Louise]

My God, Sandstone, please, please, please read these threads again. This is not looks we are talking about, it is your LIFE. Just like a young horse, you are still growing and developing. You would not do anything to risk that young horse's future, would you? Then why endanger yourself? For the sake of what a few ignorant people perceive as the "right" look, you are risking your future. J Turner is right, it is up to you to be a leader. You know better, so why not take the point position and show others what a well and fit rider really can do?

[CTT]

J. Turner & Louise You both Have a good point about being a leader. We cirtenly nead more of them. The first thing we need to do is educate these people on how to BE A LEADER! It comes with time and paitence. What were looking at as a whole picture is YES we do have an problem in our show world. The first step is to educate so that they can learn how to get to that point to be a leader. We must educate on a proper diet, Proper exercise and proper daily habits. What we are faced with here at the moment is we have people from every side, We have the adults who dream of being thin again and we have the JR's who Folow in the foot steps of others their age thinking its ok to be unhealthy skiny. What I feel is more of a problem is the children (yes the adults too) but they are takeing health risks. For many of them they are growing and with out the proper diet they are causeing alot of damage. Not enough calcium in their system can cause frail and weak bones. And what grows for them to get biger and taller? yep you guesed it BONES! I have mentioned alot of health risks from not eating, Your liver, kidnies, your monthly cycles, bones.
I was doing a quick surf on internet and started to look for what I see as healthy. Sure there are some but I began to look at the pics and saw how small and fragile they look these days. What I feel is needed to be done is to find a way to go out there and educate people on the affects of an improper diet. what hapens to growing children when they crash diet. But how. How can we who care go out there and make it known its not OK for children to do this its not ok to be like everyone else, its not ok to risk your life? It takes more than a handfull of people to do this. I know I have said alot and Im sure by now you are sick of me saying this over and over again, but thats how you get a point accross. I realy do think Sandstone's post had alot of validaty here although we don't agree with her it is a diffrent side of the issue. If she did not write that we would not have responded like we did. What is hapening is by her and othres statemnts we are becomeing more aware of the problem and at the same time reaching down and voiceing what we think on the isue. Sandatone and her friends are not the only ones. they are just a handfull. When you have itme just look at pictures of riders out there and see what I am talking about. Im also curious what are the mens views on this. We see so much of it in females but what about the males out there. Do they folow in these foot steps? does it afect them ? or is it the female group? I encurage everyoone to put their two sence in even if they are on the oposite side.

[J. Turner]

Has anyone ever read the book "Little Girls in Little Boxes"? It's about the scathing weight issues in gymnastics and figure skating. Perhaps they should've added riding. I haven't read but exerpts, but I've heard it's incredible.

[Regalmeans]

CTT - what can I say that hasn't been said? Thank you for sharing your story - I admire you greatly for that. And everything you are saying here is right on target.

Thanks for sharing and encouraging everyone to share. I have a story I could tell about this - it is not a bad as most things posted here - I never threw up or took diet pills or anything of the sort- and I am fine now and proud of it. I will always be slight b/c of my body type (my mom is very slender as well) and dietery choices (although I will eat deserts and many types of 'snack food' I never touch red meat, cheese, or pork and don't put butter on anything). But eating disorders - andthe consitant pressure is a horrible place to be. I have survived - as have those here - but what about those who were lost? Could any of you be next?

Sarah

[CTT]

But eating disorders - andthe consitant pressure is a horrible place to be. I have survived - as have those here - but what about those who were lost? Could any of you be next?

Sarah[/B][/QUOTE]

Sarah First of all THANK YOU. There are a fue questions i do have and I don't mean to offend you. Are you saying you are a vegitarian or ar you the type of person who is selective with what you eat. I too from time to time eat junk food but over the years ( especialy since my last sickness) I have not had the desire to eat cirten junk foods. I don't know why but for some reason I just don't crave it. Your last statement hit me hard. What about the ones who were lost? Could any of you be next? These two questions can be interpetid in so many ways. I don't know what you were feeling when you wrote thoes words but for me I interpeted them as this: What about the people who are lost and don't realize what they are doing? Are any of us who folow like this next?
Any of us can interpit your post as is cause I see that with some of what you have said we can aply to us in our own life. Thankyou

[Melissa]

I feel very sorry for everyone who has gone through soooo much just to look like the perfect hunter or Equ. look. I hope the best for all of you. Those of you who havent done anything yet, why dont we help you start the right way! If anyone knows of any sites that are of good diet plans, ect.. lets give some people some help and make sure they make the right decision in loosing weight, not the wrong one~

[Snowbird]

Maybe that is the secret. Look for the people whose faces are missing now and used to be at shows with you all the time. How many did we lose not just to eating problems but image problems?

You children are the victims of an advertising strategy designed to make you WANT! Those who practice this strategy don't care about you or what happens to you. They just want your money.

The economy depends on selling you all sorts of supplements, vitamins, diets, diet foods new clothes and an assortment of creams an ointments to make you beautiful, skinny and healthy.

You need to assert your god given right to be an individual and be proud of who and what you are. When the image takes more importance than the talent the shallowness will drive you into other self punishing things like alcohol and drugs because they are a way to excape what you believe is your own ugliness.

Everyone is ugly to some people, and beautiful to some people. You just need to know that you have the privilege of being you. Square those shoulders and look the world back in the eye knowing that you are an individual and being different is a joy and not a punishment.

You ride for yourself, you ride to enjoy the sport and your horse. You ride to enjoy the sun and the wind in your face. If a judge's opinion of about one minute of your life is so important than don't show. You're not ready. It is afterall just a progress report and not the final diploma.

[HunterPonyRider]

I've been lurking in the shadows on this thread, but I figured I should speak up.

Any junior knows that the image of the "perfect" rider is thin. I am thin naturally, I'm 5'4" and weigh 92 pounds. I actually lose weight in my sleep and I think I lose it because I get stressed easily. Anyways, my last trainer yelled at me one day for wearing a tank top! She said I was anorexic and that I could no longer wear tanks to the barn, even in the summer! Ever since I have become very aware of my weight. I have recovered so to speak, but not fully.

On the other side of the spectrum, I have had people tell me to watch my weight! They will say things like, "...You're weight will catch up to you, watch what you're eating..." So no matter what, you can't please anyone. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Regalmeans]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CTT:
But eating disorders - andthe consitant pressure is a horrible place to be. I have survived - as have those here - but what about those who were lost? Could any of you be next?

Sarah

Sarah First of all THANK YOU. There are a fue questions i do have and I don't mean to offend you. Are you saying you are a vegitarian or ar you the type of person who is selective with what you eat. I too from time to time eat junk food but over the years ( especialy since my last sickness) I have not had the desire to eat cirten junk foods. I don't know why but for some reason I just don't crave it.

Your last statement hit me hard. What about the ones who were lost? Could any of you be next? These two questions can be interpetid in so many ways. I don't know what you were feeling when you wrote thoes words but for me I interpeted them as this: What about the people who are lost and don't realize what they are doing? Are any of us who folow like this next?
Any of us can interpit your post as is cause I see that with some of what you have said we can aply to us in our own life. Thankyou[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CTT - you're welcome. As for your question- I'm not offended - I am semi vegetarian - I eat chicken and turkey (mostly white meat only though) I am just a fairly 'picky' eater. I really don't care much for any of the things I mentioned so it's not a sacrifice really. I am just very careful with what I eat - as I want foods that will give me energy without excess fats or sugars - thus a 'typical' day of food for me includes quite a bit of fruit/veggies (apple and carrots at lunch, something before riding then a salad and raw veggies or green beans with dinner), carbohydrates (usually a bagel or something at lunch or else some sort of bread or crackers etc), and protein (via chicken or some white meat - etc). When I'm competing I avoid junk food all together.

As for my statement - I meant sort of what you said - you explained it well. I meant the ones 'lost' as in who have died or destroyed their lives b/c of something like anorexia - but also those like you said who are struggling inside and coming closer and closer to letting go. I fear for those who will be next - and I fear some of the faces will be very familiar to us - people in our own lives? How close to home can this come before we are able to end it - must it take our friends, ourselves - what else is there?

And if you are dieting ask yourself - is it for you or someone else? Why are the number so important? why can't we forget numbers - numbers like on scales, dress sizes - they become consuming.

What is the obession with thinness? IS thin so beautiful when you can see and count every bone? When some one faints from lack of food? When one is in a hospital with tubes down their throat feeding them? Is that beauty - that is where dieting can lead you - and it is not beautiful - it is horrible and tragetic.

The quest to satisfy others and measure up - what does it get you ultimately. If you can't be happy with yourself the way you arewill losing weight really change that? Why are we so influenced by what others think? When can we judge people by themselves - instead of the measurements of their body?

Sarah

[CTT]

Snowbird that was the most wonderfull thing I have read. It realy hit home with me. It took so many years for me to realize what you in just a fue minuiets wrote. If I didn't slave myself to image maby I would not have learned what I did. Maby I would't be a slave to my pill but I made that mistake. It hurts to see somany children like me make that mistake. Im a diffrent person now and if for the better i still don't know. I can only hope for something to happen. Ill tell you all something that I remind myself every day about and I think its what keeps me going. Laying there in the hospital It hurt soo much that I would have done anything to end it right there. I would have traided in my life for peace and so i wouldn't half to go on with the agoney and shame. One night while I was there I got up and went for a stroll in my in my wheel Chare There was a miror in the hall and as I passed it I saw a person I did not even know. I cried cause I had done this to myself. I had hurt the most prechious gift. As I sat there I began to think of how empty my parents would have been with out me. .. excuse me I nesd a minuit to calm down...they would have never experienced the joys I gave them. I was a preachous gift that they made and I know it would have droven them to the end if I gave up. I went back to my room and from that point I stoped praying for the pain to stop and started praying for a kidnie. When I got out It was years of mental and physical battles. You can't change over night but you can start by just looking around.
None of you are me. we are all diffrent but affedted by the same things . We just react diffrent to them. I am lucky and I mean lucky case I would not have been able to live thoes 18 months if I went on the list. Only till you eperience what dyeing is you cant change on your own. Thats why I reach my hands to people who nead that hand to get them threw things like this. its a disease and every day people dye from it but we fail to listen cause in our mind it can't harm us. but it can just by takeing that wrong turn. It hapens cuase we look at ourselves and find faults that we are not happy with but ehat hapens when we can't stop. So many people just never think. They say it can't hurt me, Im not aa slave to this, im doing it cause it what is expected of me, Im fat, Im ugly. No you are perfect. Thats why we are like we are. I can sit and tell more storys but unless you look deep down my experiences are worthless. This is when a change neads to start and to do it is by reaching out and admiting you have a problem. only till then no one can help. It starts with you.

Sarah I read yours after I posted this one and well I want to say Im proud of you I wish more pepole will read what you just wrote. When will it stop? I respect you very dearly and for that thankyou. I wish I had know some of you when I was at my worst.

[This message has been edited by CTT (edited 04-08-2000).]

[Black Market Radio]

Actually Snowbird, when you starve yourself your body doesn't burn the fat, it burns muscle first because it is afraid to burn the fat. So when you start starving yourself, all you are doing is causing your muscles to atrophy. I think it is terrible that you people on this board that have eating disorders are so open about it and proud of it! That is terrible. And what is worse is that trainers are probably aware of it and let it continue. This truly makes me sick. PLEASE seek help and therapy, I have a friend who is on those same pills as CTT, and it is heartbreaking to see the pain she is going through. Everyday she suffers because of this. My mother too had an eating disorder when she was younger, and she still to this day twenty something years later struggles with her body image because of people making comments to her like some comments I have heard from these judges. It's truly sickening and dis-heartening. These girls need to learn to stand up for themselves. If a judge ever tried to tell me that I would have won if I was skinnier, I would not only rip that judge a new one, I would report him/her and protest the show and get as many people as I could to not attend shows by that judge. Healthy living and fitness is the way to go. Look at Cindy Crawford, she is drop dead gorgeous and yet she is not waif thin. She is in excellent shape. I think that fitness needs to be the focal point in our world of horses, not the twiggy waif look. I personally think that those super skinny runway models are nasty looking with their bones poking out all over. If you look at female athletes in other sports, they are not starving themselves! Except maybe ice skating and gymnastics, but soccer players, tennis players (think Venus and Cyrena, they are beautiful and they are by far not tiny!) and other highly physical sports, and you will see a high level of fitness. How do you expect to go around a jumper course at 97 pounds without proper nutrition on a 17 hand horse? How do you expect to concentrate and achieve a perfect round if you can't concentrate because you have no energy and are out of breath? It will catch up to you and the ugly monster of eating disorders will either kill you or scar you physically for life. You will have a constant weight battle and really screw your metabolism over if you keep it up. I guarantee it. Keep heading down the path you are going and you won't have a pretty life.

[Snowbird]

Devildog, now you have it. What we can all do to help and stop this awful craze. Sent letters, not just one but one a week to the Licensed Officials Committee.

We have submitted a rules change proposal to change judging standards. This was sent in the name of all of you. It was just that someone had to write it down and mail it in.

I would be very grateful if every one of you every week sent a letter asking that "image" not be a criteria for judging anyone. Tell them you story and why you want it to stop. This is not a vanity parade but a sport. The joy of this sport was it's acceptance of all kinds of limitations. It was the only sport that not only never discriminated against blacks but revered their talent, never segregated male and female they have always competed equally. Why now there is a compulsion to create a total image of only one look I do not understand.

I can tell you as a MOM, it was awful to watch a class from the seats and not really be sure which one was mine. Everyone in their uniform, everyone with the same look, and if it was not for the numbers or thank-you for the difference in the horses many Moms would have been cheering the wrong child and never knew it.

You tell those judges and trainers that if they can tolerate the differences in the horses, sizes, color, build and markings WHY? must all the riders look exactly the same.

If you all wanted to be in a beauty contest you could do that and there's lots of money in scholarships available. We chose this sport because vanity is not who we are, and performance is who we are.

[Black Market Radio]

I just watched the Stepford Wives today, and the horse show world came to mind... and OORAH to you Snowbird, give me the addresses of the people to write and I will write them and tell them what I think. I also really think that the weight thing needs to be addressed in an article written by the chronicle and have some girls like CTT share their horror stories. This truly needs to stop, and the only way to stop it is to revolt and buck the system. If the early revelutionaries could beat the English army and win the independance of a country, if the Marines could take control over Iwo Jima and raise the Flag on Mt Sirobachi after 32 days of continual fighting and tons of casualties, then by gosh we can take the sticks out of these judges butts and stick them in their ears! How many casualties of war must we see before we fight back? We need Esprit De Corps in the horse show world, the pride of being an athlete, not a twig on a horse. Be proud of yourself the way you are and try an achieve fitness and not weight. a lot of people get hung up on the how much they weigh issue, the fact is, muscle weighs more than fat, so it's the BODY FAT percentage that is what you need to look at. And you NEED fat in your diet as fuel, or your body will use your muscles for fuel. Skinny people can be just as much at risk for heart disease and cholestorol as a person who weighs more. Eating healthy and excercising is key. The reason people with eating disorders have heart problems is because the muscle around the heart starts to deteriorate! Less heart muscles = weaker heart = heart attack =DEATH. I eat extra protien in my diet so I can keep up with my activity level. Find out what the correct diet (and I don't mean it in the weight loss term but in the way one should eat term) you should be on to keep your body at its optimum.

[Regalmeans]

Can I just say you are all great? CTT, Snowbird, Devildog - etc. If people like us were setting the standards we wouldn't have this problem! If we all work together- all of us meaning all riders at all levels - really all PEOPLE b/c this is not just a riding issue - or a teen issue- or a sport issue - or even a women's issue - perhaps we could bring people to see that being thin - having the right clothing size or the right weight # is not 'where it's at' - that whats matters really is how strong, fit, and HAPPY you are (ever met a happy anorexic- contradition in terms!).

To those of you who are 'dieting' taking the water pills etc - please stop and THINK - how is blue ribbon worth more then your health.
I read that book Little Girls in Pretty Boxes and one thing made me cry - it was saying how after gymnast Christy Henrich died her parents went home to where her medals were "scattered in a drawer like coins in a fountain" and her mom said something like "if christy can't look at those medals and be happy then it was all for nothing" - your 'victories' are meaningless if you lose your self in 'achieving' them. PLease trust me that it is not worth it...

Sarah

[Snowbird]

Right on Regalmeans,
They're only purpose is to build self esteem in your accomplishments. They are a way of measuring progress. They are not an end in themselves.

So we have a rally! Go to http://www.ahsa.org
click on staff. Write your email and then send copies to everyone including Alan Balch

Go to http://www.nhjc.org
click on committees, and send your letters to everyone on your Zone Committee, and to their Licensed Officials Committee.

And, don't stop, don't get discouraged just all of you and all of your friends keep sending those emails. They will notice and they will have to act.

The first step change judging standards. At all clinics instruct the judges that skinny is not a valid criteria.

[Cozmo]

All of the advice you guys have given me I've thought about for a really long time- thank you! I needed an awakening. But, I'm not saying that I'm going to start eating right entirely now... All of you trying to contact the ahsa have a very good idea, but until then, judges are probably still going to look at me and think I need to loose weight. It's hard because I compete against people like Sara Willeman and Avery Dimmig and Georgina Bloomberg and Lourdes who have all basicly been placed first, second and third before they even walk into the ring- I'm not saying that they don't have talent and that they don't work hard- b/c they do- I'm friends w/ them adn I SEE how hard they work. I have to pick another way to stand out- In WEF people were saying how skinny I was and how they envied my body. My boyfriend- who is also affileated w/ the horse show world- told me that people were complementing him on how great I looked. Now, because I'm not walking and I have more time to eat and lots of other factors, I gained weight. People still think I look fine, but I don't really think so anymore. I HAVE to stand out at Devon- in some way or antoher!!!! I guess if the only way I can do that is to loose weight- then I'll do it- I'll do anything. I know you say wining isn't everything- but it is to me. I'm basicly perfect- I know you'll say that nobody is- but truthfully- all I need is to win at indoors and I'll have everyithing I've ever wanted...

[Duffy]

OMG, Cozmo!!!! You're not really reading or comprehending these posts at all and it's not only disheartening, it's extremely SCARY! You can have your whole life in front of you and you may not, because of this path you've chosen. And yes, I may get flamed for this, but you have made the choice. Hopefully, you will change your mind in time, but for now, it's obviously been your own decision to take this route of self-destruction! How can you say that you're basically perfect and that all you need in life is to win at the indoors???!! Do you really feel that way? PLEASE seek some help NOW!

If anyone knows this girl, please intervene with her trainers/parents, whatever, NOW. This is frightening!

[This message has been edited by Duffy (edited 04-09-2000).]

[Black Market Radio]

Well cosmo, unfortunatly it's people like you who are going to drag down the process. Maybe you should really re-think your goals and decide if winning a stupid horse show is really worth risking your life. Horses are dangerous enough as it is, and then to add to the top of it a weak, starved child is truly sickening. Think about those starving children in 3rd world countries who have no choice but to starve. DO you think they care about a dang horse show? No, winning is not everything and I must say that you are not a true horse person if winning is all you can think about. Disgusting. Really disgusting. You are in it to win, not for the love of the horse obviously, and that is what is the saddest part of everything. It's horrible when people do everything they can to make the horse better, but then it's also bad that you are doing it to yourself. Well, I guess it's better than doing it to the horse who doesn't have a choice. But YOU do have a choice, and it is a life or death one. Think about your future, not just the NOW. THat is the problem with most young people today. Instant gratification. They are willing to risk it all so they can be happy NOW. Who cares what happens in the future right? It doesn't matter, when the future comes I will deal with it then. So I may have health problems for the rest of my life if I end up living but for heavens sake I won a frickin horse show. If I live to see my children grow and they ask why mom has so many health problems and has a hard time eating hardly anything and still gains twice as much weight as they should because they have no metabolism left, she can tell them that it was all worth it for a freakin blue ribbon that is packed away in a box somewhere and you no longer can ride because of your health struggles. Yeah, it's worth it isn't it?

[N&B&T]

On the money about the body fat and fitness, devildog. You, too, Snowbird, and all those who have made similar points.

I'm jumping into this one because no one has yet mentioned that dehydration is also very bad for health, fitness, AND performance. Someone mentioned tennis players--they pre-hydrate til they squelch before they start playing, and keep adding water as they play. Once you start to feel very thirsty, you are already dehydrated--you lose strength, speed, reaction time, thinking ability. You feel faint, get overheated, cramp, and are nauseous. The heroics of Pete Sampras and Michael Chang notwithstanding, it's not a good practise for daily life, never mind for actually trying to do a sport.

I'll stop for the moment (and get a glass of water /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) but I think it would be a good thing to use this particular thread for many purposes: 1) bringing this problem--which I did not realize was so widespread among adolescents in this sport--to light; 2) letting people in all stages of dealing with it talk about their experiences; 3) providing alternative ways of viewing fitness and body image; 4) providing accurate health and fitness information, as well as sources for further information.

More later...

[This message has been edited by Nancey Phillips Fisher (edited 04-09-2000).]

[J. Turner]

I know for a fact that while Sarah Willeman is naturally slender, she is gym rat. She works out really hard to stay strong. I ride (or did before I became pregnant) at her home barn in Massachusetts. She has wonderful horses, yes, but she's fit ("buff"), plus how could you not get better riding as much as she does!

[Black Market Radio]

Oh yeah! dehydration! I almost forgot that one, don't know how since it's such a strict thing they push for in the military! Also, my bulemic friend passed out at school and had to be hospitalized for dehydration. Not fun. Oh, and to the last poster about Sarah, no one said SHE was like that, and I am glad to hear that she is athletic and works out, that is what we need in this sport. I e-mailed everyone who had an e-mail address on the AHSA site about this subject! Hopefull someone in cosmos' life will recognize her problem and get her to help herself.

[Flash44]

So if you win at indoors this year your life will be perfect? I think not. You will wake up the next day and everything will be the same as it was the day before you won. Sorry to disappoint you.

You will not be happy with who you are until you start being happy and proud about how you are living your life and what you are doing with yourself, not by the number of points next to your name or the color of the ribbon you won. All of that is wiped out at the end of the year and you have to start all over again from zero.

Why don't you spend some time working at a therapeutic riding program or a developmentally challenged center or a soup kitchen. Those people have real problems and a little effort on your part can make a big difference in their lives. Much more than the difference between a size 4 and a size 6 will make in your life. Maybe if you concentrate a bit more on what you are giving instead of what you are getting you will find happiness and satisfaction.

[teddy]

COZMO!!

I hear what you are saying. I understand perfectly that you want to look as slim as the other girls at the big shows. Wanting to be the same weight as your toughest competitors makes sense to me because I know that being heavier is a handicap to your winning ability at the big shows. Extra pounds won't necesarily stop you from beating thinner girls, but they won't help you at all, that is for sure. You usually have to make up for being heavier by riding better than the rest, which puts you at an unfair advantage. It is just not a level playing field. That is a horrible, horrible fact, but it is the truth, nevertheless. I don't see how writing into the AHSA and raising awareness will ever change the situation. Girls will always want to be thin and judges will always favor riders that are slender. It's disgusting... yes... but it's also a mentality that is not going anywhere soon.

What we need to to do is learn to cope with it. Cozmo... you are a such a classic example of how junior girls feel. What needs to be addressed her is how Cozmo can deal with these feelings of hers in a safe and non-harmful way. Some have posted that she should not feel the way she does... that she has no reason to loose weight and that she should not heed her trainer's and judge's words. Well of course she SHOULDN'T, but she does anyway. No one can force her to change her feelings anymore than my girlfriends here at college can try to make me stop obsessing over this silly guy who I know is SO not worthy of my time and energy, but who I constantly think about anyway, DESPITE the fact that I know he is a jerk. We feel the way we feel whether we like it or not, and it usually takes years and years to change the strongest of our feelings (and a lot of therapy).

SO... here are my recommendations for "coping" with the feelings of inadequacy you have regarding your weight. First of all, please consider going to a therapist. There is a lot of bad therapy out there, so you have to be wise in choosing someone, but when you do find the right person, therapy can be one of the most rewarding and helpful expereinces. It is something you have to do for yourself. My mother wanted me to see someone for years becuase she thought I was holding myself back from winning by psyching myself out. We also had a lot of family problems too. Well, I refused to go for a very long time. I was too embarassed really. I didn't want to have to explain to people why I was doing it and I really thought that I could deal with my problems by myslef. When I came to school, my friend finally got me to go to her therapist. I can not even begin to tell you what it has done for me. I wish so much that I had gone when I was a junior, I can't imagine how much it would have helped me then. With you, Cozmo, a therapist would provide an outlet for you outside of your family and riding. I know you think that you are too busy between riding, school, and everything else, but you just need to budget an hour a week and it is SOOOOOO completly worth it. If you think that you would be embarassed then the key is not to tell people! It might seem hard to keep it a secret, but it really isn't. I have a huge group of freinds at school who I am with all of the time, and only two of my freinds know I am in therapy. If your parents are in issue, let me know, because I have lots of ways to get around them. My mother doesn't even know I am seeing anyone! Believe me when I say that that is a feat!
Moving on. Ok... so you want to loose weight for Devon. I am not going to criticize you for that at all... if it's something you really think needs to be done then there ain't nutin that's gonna change that. Just don't be a wuss and take the lazy and easy way to weight loss. Yup... you ARE gonna loose the weight if you don't eat and take pills. But god, you will so not be better off becuase you are just gonna feel like crap.
A little anecdote for you. I gained weight my first three weeks at college. I went from 120 to 127 pounds at 5'9". It crept up on me fast and I was traumatized because I had never gained non-growthspurt related weight before in my life, BUT I also hadn't gone that long without riding or working for my trainers since I was in grade school, so the weight gain made sense. After all, I went from working my behind off every day at the summer shows to getting no exercise whatsoever except for walking around campus (plus, I was living it up and drinking a lot on the weekends). Towards the end of September I realized that I was gonna have a bit of trouble squeezing into my riding clothes (especially my boots) for Indoors. I had only gained 7 pounds, which is really hardly anything, but I knew that it was a meaningful 7 pounds. So I stopped eating. I would eat only when I absolutly could not take it anymore and I lived on vitamins and ultra slim fast. I had never "dieted" before, and my body couldn't take it. I was too tired to go out at night, I started falling alseep in my classes, and I kept gettingt the dry heaves. I was a cry for help. My wonderful roomate, who was this diet and workout guru, took me under her wing. We had two weeks unitl capitol challenge... three til harrisburg. First, we went to CVS and bought all of these cool vitamins. Then, she introduced me to the gym. I had never worked out before, and to me the gym was a foreign land with scary equipment and intense people, but she showed me the ropes and set up a routine, and I quickly got the hang of it. She supervised my eating, making me eat breakfast for the first time ever, cutting the caffeine out of my diet, and introducing me to the world of the mythical "balanced diet". And then there was the water, oh god the water. I had to drink it 24-7. I also had to make sure I slept at least 6 hours every night. I felt so wonderful, AND I lost 5 pounds... all in good health! Too bad I rode horribly anyway at Indoors!
It's such a shame that you feel winning is everything, but once again, if that is the way you feel then that is the way you feel. But let me tell you a few things that helped me loose that mentality over time. I had to become a working student when I was a sophomre because my family lost a lot of money and could not longer afford to do the circuit without worrying at all about the bills. It was the best thing ever... I was such a spoiled brat before, and I only focused on winning... so much so that I was unable to do it! Being around my horses more and being responsible for them changed me so much... I learned to love the sport for the little things like arriving at the shows at the crack of dawn only to hear the birds and the sound of the horses munching on hay. I stopped going to the shows in hopes of expereincing the thrill of victory, and instead, I went for dozens of other reasons, like to see my friends and enjoy preparing my horse to show. Winning became secondary and I was so much happier.
All right, this is way to long and I HAVE to stop this rambling now because I have too much studying that I need to be doing. Oh god... having panick attack about schoolwork... must go... hope somobody out there, especially cozmo, got something out of this...

[Black Market Radio]

Ok Teddy, I agree with SOME of what you said, however, IT IS THE MINDSET THAT YOU HAVE THAT KEEPS US IN A RUT!!! We CAN fight it and FITNESS should be emphasized, but not by judges! A trainer for a highly competative person can recommend a work out schedual for strength and fitness, but not everyone is going to look like a runway model somehow wandered onto show grounds. MOST people are not stick skinny, I am very thin, I am only 5'3 and weigh about 103, but I wear a size 7! Why? Because I work out and I have a VERY strong stomach. Most people can't believe I wear a 7, but they don't think that is fat either! So to these girls who are saying "oh my gosh, I am 5'9 and wear a size 6, I am FAT!!!" I cannot sympathize with them. Instead of starving yourself, eat a well balanced, good diet and excercise. I got a few responses from some of those people I e-mailed at AHSA, and got some good responses to them. It may not be stoppes completely, but it can be slowed way down. Teddy, I am sorry but you are almost glorifying eating disorders in your first couple of paragraphs! This is a SERIOUS thing and it needs to be taken care of. I will use another analogy and maybe you will get it this time. If we went along with the mindset of "well, it's not right but that's the way it is" then SLAVERY would still be going on today! Don't just follow the heard like a dumb cow, stand up and fight for what is right. You are giving up without even trying, and being that I am a Marine and we are taught to NEVER give up, I have to say that that kind of behavior is dishonerable and sad. To win the war you have to fight, if you want change you have to go after it. If you accept the way things are even if you don't like it, that is terrible. If something is blatantly and morally wrong, then it SHOULD be questioned and bringing it to light WILL help change things a little, but that is not enough.

[N&B&T]

"First, we went to CVS and bought all of these cool vitamins. Then, she introduced me to the gym. I had never worked out before, and to me the gym was a foreign land with scary equipment and intense people, but she showed me the ropes and set up a routine, and I quickly got the hang of it. She supervised my eating, making me eat breakfast for the first time ever, cutting the caffeine out of my diet, and introducing me to the world of the mythical "balanced diet". And then there was the water, oh god the water. I had to drink it 24-7. I also had to make sure I slept at least 6 hours every night. I felt so wonderful, AND I lost 5 pounds... all in good health!"

I think the last sentence is very important...usually, attention to fitness and healthy eating results in weight loss, as well as more strength. If, after that, you still want to reduce your body fat, you can reduce fats in your diet. It's possible to lose weight AND be healthy AND gain strength without bulking up...or, bulk up, if you like. It's certainly true that different body types and metabolisms will react differently to the same regime. Figure out what you need for your body and your activity level. Also, you may find that fitness alone is what suits you, and that you don't need to strive for zero body fat! Finally, it truly is how you feel about yourself that counts in the final analysis, not your measurements.

Speaking of which, muscle mass vs. fat is going to determine weight. During one period of my life, I lost three sizes and only seven pounds (5'7") which just goes to show you.

To follow the regime above takes some time, attention, and discipline...but there are young women posting on this thread who say they will do anything to improve their competitiveness...if so, do the right thing, no shortcuts (bad for horses? bad for you, too!). And think very hard about what exactly it is that you think you need to be or appear to be before you take such shortcuts. The poster who suggested service as a means of gaining perspective makes a very good point.

(The quote is from two posts back, I think...)

[This message has been edited by Nancey Phillips Fisher (edited 04-09-2000).]

[Snowbird]

No..No..No..that's not the way. You started out fine and you finished up fine.

Right, life will not be perfect, it will not change and no one will even remember or notice if you win the big one at the indoors!
They won't even notice if you die on the way! You'll just be one less to beat.

The quote:
I was such a spoiled brat before, and I only focused on winning... so much so that I was unable to do it! Being around my horses more and being responsible for them changed me so much... I learned to love the sport for the little things like arriving at the shows at the crack of dawn only to hear the birds and the sound of the horses munching on hay. I stopped going to the shows in hopes of
expereincing the thrill of victory, and instead, I went for dozens of other reasons, like to see my friends and enjoy preparing my horse to show. Winning became secondary and I was so much happier.

That is the real purpose of showing. Life does not change because for one minute you were skinny.

[chief]

COSMO- Knock it off now, or else it will continue to haunt you for the rest of your life! Talk to your parents or an adult that you trust who will LISTEN to how you feel and not just tell you what to do.

I was in a very similar position as you as a junior- I actually walked away from a top EQ. barn right at the height of my "career" and at the verge of being the IT Girl of 15-17 equitation. Why? I was 5'8" and 100 pounds- exhausted, had stomach ulcers and strange abdominal pains. I never took diet pills or drugs- I just didn't eat and the anxiety of being number 1 was enough to create the ulcers. One day, my dad noticed that I was picking at my favorite salad that he always made- he took me aside and simply said, "I know what you are doing, knock it off, or you'll lose it all, and I don't mean your horse... there are more important things in life." I spent a lot of time after that talking to my dad about perfection, weight, pressures, etc. So, I made the decision to move to a low pressure barn, gained 15 pounds and had a blast. I occassionally won an Eq. class, but never to the level that I probably would have in the other barn. Did I regret the move? A little then, but now? Not at all. Had I stayed at the big barn, yes, I probably would have made finals, but what to show for it later?

The great thing about riding, unlike sports like gymnastics or skating, your career doesn't end at 18... in fact, it keeps getting better as you get older. You can achieve GREAT things at 20 - 30- 50 and on up. To quote George Morris, "Riding takes a lifetime to learn- and just when you think you've got it, another challenge comes along to put you in your place." Don't pinpoint your junior years as being the END... it's just the beginning.

And, furthermore, distinguish yourself with poise and confidence, not thinness. If you're concerned about setting yourself apart from Sara, Avery and Georgina, then work without stirrups five times as much, work on your transitions until they're flawless, develop a killer lower leg and put on an air of confidence in the ring- that's what is noticed! Cozmo, if I could play a record of me at age 16, we would have sounded the same. Don't go down that road- it's been a very long and bumpy one for me, and at age 29 just starting to smooth out.

[FlyingCircus]

I've been reading along with you guys and now finally feel as though I can respond. I wish I had been able to stand up to my trainer in college when he said, "there is nothing uglier than a fat rider." Mind you, that was when I stood 5'9" and weighed 120. I lived on Slim-Fast and lettuce for the next two years, until I graduated. Now, four years out of school, I have gained 20-25 pounds. I realize now that I am healthier, even though some days, I feel fat. But my body has reached its proper weight and you couldn't pay me enough to diet again. I run every other day and do my sit-ups and push-ups to keep muscle tone and I eat pretty much whatever I want (although I have to admit that junk food doesn't cross my apartment's threshold). Those years of living on Slim-Fast did nothing for me, except ruin my mental image of myself. I won when I was underweight and I still win now. Granted, I don't show at the As - I take young horses to schooling shows and Cs, but those young horses require all my physical and mental strength to give them a good horse show experience, so that someone else can take them to the As and win. I wouldn't be able to help the horses if I were still starving myself. I can't tell you how many times I felt weak after riding at even an intercollegiate show because I hadn't eaten enough to keep a fruit fly alive. If I were still starving myself, I would not be an asset to the young horses that I train. It's taken me a long time to be satisfied with what I look like, but I've realized that who I am is more important than what I look like. I'd rather be here than in a hospital. And besides, what's a ribbon really worth? Shouldn't it be enough to know that you rode as well as you could and weren't just a passenger on your horse? We already take take too much for granted in this life; we shouldn't take our bodies and lives for granted.

[Goodyfourshoes!]

If I took my horse and underfed it, overworked it, doped it with drugs, withheld it's food on a regular basis, and demanded it be a "particular" size or shape (never mind what it was bred to look like, risk it's health, soundness and mental capabilities; I would be condemned by everyone here, and quite possibly, arrested.

What a pity that some young women think that is perfectly acceptable to do that to themselves. Would you do that to your horses???

[Snowbird]

I'd like you all to consider this!

Why do we all like horses that are nice and fat and round better than the bony skinny looking ones?

Why is it acceptable for there to be long legged horses, and short legged horse of all kids of combinations of markings sizes and shapes?

Except in a class specifically for "conformation" they are all supposed to be judged equally on "performance and soundness".

Why can we not give the rider the same privileges? Especially since at least in the horse divisions the rider is irrelevant.

[Glasgow]

If anyone at the Chronical or any other publication needs verification that the body image topic is timely and critical, please read Sandstone's post from page one of this thread.

[Weatherford]

Thanks to everyone for posting here - this has been excellent.

If anyone wants to watch very very competitive riders who do not fit the "0-2" size category that is currently in vogue, you should watch dressage rider, Amy Gimbel (NA Young Riders Team) and Canadien (I think) show jumper extraordinaire, Frankie Chesler. I watched the latter in FLorida, and she was excellent: fit, strong, aggressive, talented. Her few mistakes were those of a young rider and had NOTHING to do with the fact that she is not the skeleton that the judges seem to prefer. (Both these riders are sponsored by 1824, a company that caters to larger riders - and they are featured models in the newest catalogue.) We need to see more like them in the winners' circles!

[Cozmo]

I certainly agree with all of you when you say that it is gross what girls will do to themselves to win! I'm jaust saying that judges like it- it is what wins, no matter what! If you weigh 135 and are 5 ft 8 in and you put in a good round you will probably be beat by a girl weighing 120 and 5 ft 8 in. I have seen it happen, I have expierenced it myself. The other week, I was called back in the medal in 2nd and I didn't have that wonderful of a test (my horse doesn't leave other horses when it's my turn). But, the girl who was coming back in first was about 135 and 5 ft 4 in. She had a fine round, much better than mine, and she ended up second...later I found out that I won because I "fit my horse better"- that is what the judge said to my trainer. It happens... and until it stops happining nothing is going to change about the way riders view themselves...

[Lily]

I don't have the time right now to do this justice, but I wanted to bring up the fact that "fitting your horse well" has little to do with how thin you are- in fact, there's a great thread about this, started by Glasgow I believe. There are plenty of reasons why a rider will or will not look right on a horse- and 99% of them have nothing to do with weight.

Cosmo- Instead of trying to stand out at Devon by losing weight, why don't you focus your energy on improving your riding? That's a much healthier mindset- I'd hate to see you stand out as the rider who was taken away in an ambulance due to dehydration.

[This message has been edited by Lily (edited 04-10-2000).]

[Amanda]

I am sorry if I offend anyone. Me my self being slightly on the chubby side- it sometimes upsets me when judges pick the thinner ones over the healthily pudgy ones! I mean, the Top 2 Finishers of the Onondarka Medal at The Oaks this past weekend were sticks! Literally! Everyone can be healthier if the judges stop placing all the thin ones first- and IT IS NOT just the Rated judges- I was at a County Show to get my pony used to the grass and show in some medals. I have wonderful equitation- but I'm no stick figure- and I place last with a bunch of people who are totally thin...It is somewhat prejudice...and is definetly a problem among teens these days!

Amanda

[PepTalk]

Hi! I was wondering? Did anybody happen to see the 1998 McClay Championships on ESPN? OK, there were 3 people who rode in the ride off. Sarah Willeman, Erynn Ballard and Avery Dimming. Avery Dimming went first and had a beautiful round. Then the rider from Canada, Erynn Ballard, rode and had an "impeccable round" as said by THE Robert Ridland. Then Sarah Willeman went 3rd and had a great round. Why am I bringing this up you may ask? Did any body SEE Erynn Ballard? She WAS NOT a skinny girl and she WON the class!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
In fact, Avery Dimming wasn't the perfect body type either!!!!!AND SHE PLACED 2ND!!!!! Sarah Williman did an outstanding job, she just had bad luck with her horse. What I am trying to say is, you CAN ride if you are not the perfect height, weight etc.! I watch the Championship over and over again trying to figure out how ALL three of those riders rode! They were wonderful! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifBTW, the 1996 McClay Championship had ALL skinny girls and made me want to puke! I still have it on videotape! NO WAY do I want to end up like those people! If I do, somebody shoot me! OK, I'll get off my soapbox now! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Regalmeans]

Reading this thread I had a thought - everyone here keeps saying over and over "but judges favor skinny riders and it's hard (or impossible) to fix it!" - might I make a comment that if you believe this and you then go about conforming to the rules you are only re-enforcing this.

If instead all of the people who want to lose weight - and are healthy where they are - simply in order to win spent that much time and energy RIDING and getting better maybe one day a 'weight biased' judge would find that the BEST rounds in a class they were judging were in fact by people who didn't fit the 'thinness mold' and be almost forced to pin them b/c they were so far superior? (Hey I have a dream!)

Also suiting your horse doesn't have much to do with weight, I may show a 14.2 hand horse in green hunter this year and if I judge tells me that I look to big or whatnot on her I won't be terribly offended - as my legs are long on her and I do look big! And likewise my friend who owns this mare is 5'0 and does not look well on my 17 hand thoroughbred. Suitablity has more to do with height, how long your legs (especially thighs) are and how the horse is built!

But don't get mad at people who are think - I am 5'5 and about 118. I don't diet at all although I am careful with my diet I do eat quite a lot (today I had an apple and a drink for breakfast - a peanu butter sandwich, an apple, carrots, a bag of chips and 2 cookies for lunch, and low fat popcorn and goldfish as snack - then dinner will be chicken and vegetables with milk to drink and probably a roll or some bread) and I am naturally slender - some people really do look that way - I have a friend who is really really skinny but she eats anything and everything - some people just are that way and you can't hate them for it!

Snowbird I love everything you are saying! I want to email the AHSA and tell them all about this but am not sure of what to say - could some of you who have mailed them share your letters with me?

CTT - thanks for your kind words - reading all of this has made me truly greatful I was able to stop before I hurt myself (beyond emotional wounds that are slow to heal sometimes)

And to those of you who want to impress the judge with your weight - what about impressing him with your great release, you perfectly following hand, your horse's elegant jump, your immaculate turnout, your smooth transitions in u/s classes - etc. IMO those are the more important things.... and if you don't win? Is it the end of the world? Those classes at Devon are huge - there will be 40 or so people entered - maybe 6 of them get ribbons - so do all the rest walk away 'losers'? IT depends on how they view it - for some the honor of being at Devon and competing and presenting the horse they have worked so hard with will make it all worth it! Is a ribbon worth physical pain? Even if you win will you need to keep winning over and over again? Will it never be enough? Those of you who talk about Devon I will be honest here I ENVY YOU - I would LOVE to show at Devon and I probably never will - yet all you care about is getting a ribbon and being thin - I am sorry but that attitude makes me sick! There IS life after Devon, after Indoors - unless of course you are in the hospital with your organs failing being fed through tubes. Or you have become so tired and depressed that you cannot take showing anymore.....ask your self what is 10 pounds worth? What is a blue ribbon worth? What is your life worth?

If people here still think thin is better how can we EVER convince the judges to judge objectivily!!! We must all take a stand TOGETHER to stop this bias - and we must all stop buying into and believing it - it makes us almost as bad as those doing it if we keep turning a blind eye to it!

Sarah


[This message has been edited by Regalmeans (edited 04-10-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Regalmeans (edited 04-10-2000).]

[Lily]

Sarah, you said exactly what I was trying to say- but much more eloquently.

If you are convinced that the judges will pin someone else over you, they probably will, because you've beaten yourself before you even walked into the ring.

Instead of thinking negative thoughts about your body image, turn that into positive energy and have the rounds of a lifetime.

More later...back to the thesis!


[This message has been edited by Lily (edited 04-10-2000).]

[Morjalia]

Sarah, your post really got me thinking. When you are older and look back at your life what kind of memories do you want to have? Do you want to have a blue ribbon not worth more than $5? Do you want to have your family and friends remember you winning that ribbon? If these memories will also bring up reminders of starving, feeling weak, never being satisfied, overall inability to do a good job riding your horse, was it really worth it? Who are you living your life for? Your trainer, family, friends, judges, horse(possibly /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)or yourself? I hope when I look back at the great moments in my riding career, they will be the times when I became one with my horse, when our relationship was so strong we could read each others minds. I want memories of the perfect round, not because I was stick thin, but because I had trained hard and perfected both myself and my horse, and honestly I would prefer these memories to all the blue ribbons in the world.
This past summer I was showing both of my horses at a show during a fair(ferris wheels, screaming kids, crowds etc.) I won a couple classes on my more experienced horse, but the class that made me proudest was the one that my VERY GREEN gelding was able to complete without being asked to leave the ring. He had acomplished something that was very hard for him, my other horse, although we won ribbons could have had a much better performance.
Sorry this is so long, I just think many of the weight issues stem from issues of why people are riding, Is it for the horse or for the ribbons?

[CTT]

Its been almost two days since I have been on the boards. I apologise that this will be very long. Its been a very hard weekend and the week just got even hearder. Today I buried a very dear friends of mine sister. and about 30 mins. ago i got a call that I just lost another dear friend. The one I laied to reast today sufferd for too long. As I stood their I began to look around at everyone. She wanted a big funeral and I can't begin to describe how butifull it was. I haven't stoped crying. Portia thanks for keeping me together. I stood their and as I said my fairwell I stood and looked down into that deep hole. Was she realy gone? Was she realy in that box? and if not why isn't she standing here holding my hand like she use to reinsure to me that she was ok? Then it dawned on me and I realized she was in that box. She realy was gone. And shes never comeing back no mater how hard i wish that I would wake up from this dream and see her tomarow at school where we all use to hang out. But she won't be ther. Her sister had been so strong threw all of this and for the first time she cried. she couldn't be strong anymore. There was not one thing I could say to comfort her ease as I held her while she poured out 5 days of pain. Even her mother and father and brother were not there mentaly it was like a dream to all of us. Was this happy girl that only 2 weeks ago was going to clubs and movies with us realy gone. It still hasn't dawned on me. I don't know when it will and at that point how will i deal with it all.. She died from newmonia......

Im shareing this story with you all because that could have been any of us. How do you think the people who you leave behind will be able to coupe with the circumstances? Think of what this will do to your family. How do you think your parents will deal with this if they know their pride and joy will never wake up again. Think for a moment and listen to my words. When we are gone there will be an enpty feeling in everyones heart that we affected. And an even bigger spot for our parents. For most parents they pray for their children to out live them but in cirtian situations they don't and for the reast of their lives they have that emptyness. Its hard to have a mother standing their draped over your shoulder crying. saying the words why did she half to go now? why not later? Thoes questions can never be answerd. All that can be said to comfort is .. Shes no longer suffering, no longer in pain, and is at piece instead of pain..None of us know our time but for some they are contributing.. Maby it would have been easier if we knew she was that sick but she didn't want to hurt any of us. She wanted to live her time as long as she could till her sick body couldn't take it...She had been sick her hole life.. She was a diabetic... but each time she bounced back.. There are some questions that still are waiting to be answerd..

Cozmo, dimond, and all who choose the road to be skiny. for a moment pretend that she is you.. How do you think all who love you in some way will deal with the pain of you being gone? How can you stand their and think for one moment that they will be ok? They won't and thats the simple fact. you probubly never thaught of this? have you? This friend of mine that I laied to rest today could have been any of you.

Im compleatly out of my mind at the moment. Today had been one of thoes days you wish never had to be. I have read all of the new posts and I half to give an aplaud to Sarah for what she wrote. Im here If you ever need to talk. You are a very strong person. What will we be able to look back on when we are older.. THE HAPPY MOMENTS... not the bad not the wins not how much we wone or made in life the happy moments..

Tedy there are some things in your post that I hate to say but I would like to rip apart. Not to be mean but to be logicle. Although yo did have some good parts the first half is my main objective.. For onr momrnt think what it truly is like to be a person with eating disorders. look at the sights I have given out. put yourself in the shoes of them and realy understand. I can understand cause I was their and in the worse way. I sacraficed my life and for that i came literaly days away for leaveing this world as I know it. That is why I say what I do and in the way i do cause i WAS there I came close and for what. to be skiny fo myself? to do it for what I wanted? NO plain and simple fact...I LISTEND AND I DID IT CAUSE I THOUGHT THATS WHAT EVERYONE ASKED AND WANTED" You might have done it in a safer maner of looseing the weight but your prioraties still were not their. you still did it for the sake of others> for thoes dam judges that make you think that you hald to. All you had to do was go out buy some in evpensive used boots some new britches and atire. Thats all you had to do. 7lbs big woop you probubly could not even tell but you could since your rideing atire did not fit properly. You did it to fit into some worthless clothing that could have been replaced.. Im sory Im harsh but my point is you thought you did it in a healthy maner but your focus was not on the right place and that is why I can not reward you.
to all....
Ask this question What makes a good horseman?

"I hear what you are saying. I understand perfectly that you want to look as slim as the other girls at the big shows. Wanting to be the same weight as your toughest competitors makes sense to me because I know that being heavier is a handicap to your winning ability at the big shows."

Do you realy hear what cozmo is saying? Its only a handicap because the judges made it that way.
"Extra pounds won't necesarily stop you from beating thinner girls, but they won't help you at all, that is for sure. You usually have to make up for being heavier by riding better than the rest, which puts you at an unfair advantage."

Remember my question above? I rather see her wit a fue extra pounds and a better rider than a skiny slopy rider that gets pined for the look. It puts her at a good advantage with her self cause she can sit there and go wow I ride so much better than them and when Im older I can go farther than them. while they are still here. I would rather be known as someone who rode their best, was a real orsewoman, and tried my hardest. Thats the reward not some little point thing or ribon. It how you feel inside.

"It is just not a level playing field. That is a horrible, horrible fact, but it is the truth, nevertheless. I don't see how writing into the AHSA and raising awareness will ever change the situation. Girls will always want to be thin and judges will always favor riders that are slender. It's disgusting... yes... but it's also a mentality that is not going anywhere soon."

if we want to stop it it has to start with the induvidual riders. Standing up for honesty and real judgeing. We do have a say if its big enough and if we ge to gether and voice our opinion we will be heard. trust me we will it just takes time and paitence. it is the year 2000 and its about dam time we start changeing how things are done. we have ppowe and that is our money. If we want something done we work our hardest to make the more powerfull ( bigger walets) listen to us and have them help us get to where we want to be. We are a paying customer every time we show or renew our membership. And what is the first rule of sales in any business? The customer is always right. and we are the customers here..

"What we need to to do is learn to cope with it. Cozmo... you are a such a classic example of how junior girls feel. What needs to be addressed her is how Cozmo can deal with these feelings of hers in a safe and non-harmful way. Some have posted that she should not feel the way she does... that she has no reason to loose weight and that she should not heed her trainer's and judge's words. Well of course she SHOULDN'T, but she does anyway. No one can force her to change her feelings anymore than my girlfriends here at college can try to make me stop obsessing over this silly guy who I know is SO not worthy of my time and energy, but who I constantly think about anyway, DESPITE the fact that I know he is a jerk. We feel the way we feel whether we like it or not, and it usually takes years and years to change the strongest of our feelings (and a lot of therapy)."

The reason we say this is because for thoes of us that have said it have folowed in simalar shoes as me and can relate. Its their warning to not do what we made the mistake of doing. We sufferd for it for so long and the more we say thoes words the more she will see and be able to grab deep down and find what is needed of he from herself. Remember I do work as a volenteer at a clinic and I repeat myself over and over again in diffrent ways till everyone heres me the same and can sit there and go I can't balive i was that dumb to think that. The more of us that say it the more aware that people are to what is in them and what they need to do to corect their miss judgement.

"SO... here are my recommendations for "coping" with the feelings of inadequacy you have regarding your weight. First of all, please consider going to a therapist. There is a lot of bad therapy out there, so you have to be wise in choosing someone, but when you do find the right person, therapy can be one of the most rewarding and helpful expereinces. It is something you have to do for yourself. My mother wanted me to see someone for years becuase she thought I was holding myself back from winning by psyching myself out. We also had a lot of family problems too. Well, I refused to go for a very long time. I was too embarassed really. I didn't want to have to explain to people why I was doing it and I really thought that I could deal with my problems by myslef. When I came to school, my friend finally got me to go to her therapist. I can not even begin to tell you what it has done for me. I wish so much that I had gone when I was a junior, I can't imagine how much it would have helped me then. With you, Cozmo, a therapist would provide an outlet for you outside of your family and riding."

Therapy is a wonderfull thing and I do agree here but the first mistake is being forced. And what I mean by this is when you are forced a sheild is built and you stand their and feel imbarised as you so planly stated in your post further down. Accepting that you need help is the first step so that this does not hapen. When forced you feel like you have no controll over yourself. you have this feeling like you are not normal and then later down you sit their and think that you are so horable that you can not tell people that you have a problem. The way the world goes for real therapy is to talk about it to all the people you know know why. Don't be ashamed let it go. Im not ashamed of telling people Hey Im dislexic hey I had eating disorders, Hey I have a kidnie that is my sisters, that I tried to kill myself in un friendly ways. Yes I did slice my wrist cause you want to know why I was tired and i didn't want it anymore, Im not ashamed to telll people that Im missing a breeast, Im not ashamed to tell people that I suffer from time to time of depression, Im not ahamed to tell people that I was sexualy asulted as a chiled Im not ashamed to tell people that the reason I was sick last year was that I finaly realized that a year and a half prior I was raped. That is tharapy right there not being ashamed of yourself for all of the S*** that has hapend to you. Once you can do that and say HEY WORLD GUESS WHAT I HAD A CRAPPY LIFE BUT I LEARNED SOMETHING AND IM NOT ASHAMED TO SAY IT ANY MORE. You think that was easy for me. NO. Maby I should not have said all of that but I did and you want to know something I feel better for it cause that is one more person I feel comfortable with. That is one less person I half to lie about my life to. Man I feel better. Maby my life could have had diffrent situations and maby some of this did not half to hapen but it did and there is nothing I can do to change it. but being able to stand and not live behind a curtian where I am ahamed of myself is what I want and that is why Im so happy with myself cause I know that if i conqured this all and Im still here I did something right. I want to be known not a the mystry person but as the person who shared for people to learn and become stronger.

"I know you think that you are too busy between riding, school, and everything else, but you just need to budget an hour a week and it is SOOOOOO completly worth it. If you think that you would be embarassed then the key is not to tell people! It might seem hard to keep it a secret, but it really isn't. I have a huge group of freinds at school who I am with all of the time, and only two of my freinds know I am in therapy. If your parents are in issue, let me know, because I have lots of ways to get around them. My mother doesn't even know I am seeing anyone! Believe me when I say that that is a feat!"

Man and that above was only a start. I hate to say it but You realy did the second NO NO to therepy. telling someone that if their parents are hard that talking to them is worthless. If that was true. Who in this world made you? HMM not some angle your mother made you and so did your father. Your parents are your best friends weather you want to admit it or not they ar. Who nurtured you, who took the extra money they had to let you do this sport? who suported you? Who did everything they could do till the money was too tight? who pais for your school or sends you money when you need a fue? Ho clothed you? who put a roof over your head? Who will be their when times are tough? Who will be there when you need a shoulder to cry on? you guessed it YOUR MOM AND DAD and there is no changeing that. They are permanent. Too keep a seacret from your parents is the worst thing cause you are liveing a lie to them. You are not being honest to them and that is the bigest lie you can live with. You might tink your parent are horable but at some point in life we all think it. Im proud to say that my mother is my beast friend. I would die for her if need be. I would love her till the day she is no longer there. I am gratefull to have been born into the family that I was. I keep nothing from my mom. I tell her all. and why do I cause she knows me the best. Im just like her cause she taught me what I know. I regreat giveing her a hard time when I was young. But Our parents only have so long on this earth. Who will be there for you when they are gone? People come and go but your parents will and i mean will neaver turn their backs nomater how horable they are. If they did not want you they could have given you away but they didn't and they gave you all thay had to make you happy. Have they ever asked for all the thousands and thousands that they put out for you back. No because no parent will. You nead to learn to become friends even if it involves biting your toung.


Sory guys I know that was alot but as i said its been a long fue days. Ill have more of something posative in themorning when I get all of this out of my system.
night

[This message has been edited by CTT (edited 04-11-2000).]

[Erin]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I have been following the weight threads, and yes, we do think it's worthy of an article... probably later in the summer, since I have three articles I'm working on right now, and it seems too big a topic to lump in with the drugs/alcohol discussion. So please keep the discussion going! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, feel free to email me at erin@chronofhorse.com.

[Snowbird]

CTT,
One of the wonderful things about cyberspace is that you get the chance to vent, to put ideas together and think them out. That's what happened in the old days when we sent the message in the bottle out to sea. Today you get back and that is very reassuring.

I'd like to give you a thought too, after years of trying to solve some of the basic mysteries of "Why" in our lives. I have a conclusion, this is purgatory.

We've all been somewhere else, and we're all going somewhere else. This is inbetween spaces. Those who were very good and had learned what they needed to know got out quicker than those of us that haven't learned. So in essence that answers why so many beautiful kind and honest young people leave us too soon. It also explains why those who must live to be 125 are still with us.

This idea has given me a lot of peace. You should read a philosopher by the name of Ospensky. The short version is this, if you lose a leg, are you any less you? If you lose both legs and both arms are you still you? So then where is it you reside. His concept is that we just live inside a life support system, just like the men on the moon have to wear a space suit to be alive. So if we take off the suit, does that make us any less ourselves. Think about it, and you will begin to realize that we are all living inside a "life support system", and when we leave it behind your question to answer is are we still "US"? I think so.

CTT, I know it's hard but don't let yourself dwell on all the terrible things that can happen, or might happen or even will happen.
I am a believer in the power of positive thinking. Concentrate your efforts on what is good, what is beautiful and what is healthy and then you will find confidence and courage. There really is a good side to everything, you just need to find it.

[Louise]

Snowbird, I have tears in my eyes. What a perfect post, thank you.

[CTT]

Thanks snowbird I think Louise said it all. Its a road that everyone comes to at some point. Lastnight for me was my chance to just let it out and finaly feel like I have nothing to hide. That was the best vent for me to say what i did and Im glad I did it cause I realized threw reading what I did. Wow im realy a grate person and Im glad that Im here. Im glad that I can say what I have done and feel happy about shareing. Im tired of hideing behind a curtin anymore. It was so hard for me to get to this point but with the help of my family, jon, and my friends i have traveld a long road and have found piece within to be able to just say im not going tohide im going to fight. Im sory if for some the post was a bit much but for all this form of therapy is grate cause we all are part of the same ring. For many there are people who know otheres personaly but for me no one knows my face. They know me by my words and my battles. I feel shareing my experiences help others battle what we have in comon. I find that people become more relaxed if they know there is someone in that same boat with them. The abilaty to know you are not alone is the best fealing. Maby one of these days people will be able to put a face with all of this. I know Portia would like to know who this girl is. Maby that will hapen but till then my words are who I am.

[Bascule]

Thank you Snowbird.

[Portia]

Thank you Snowbird.

C -- Your words are only a part of who you are. It's the heart behind the words that affects us all so much.

[This message has been edited by Portia (edited 04-12-2000).]

[inthesaddle]

It is truly horrific what is happening, not only in riding, but in our society that is causing women, young and old, to feel completely inadequate and so desperate that we are willing to destroy ourselves mentally, physically, and financially to achieve an unnatural and unhealthy state of being.

I am an older rider who has struggled with my weight my whole life. I have tried every diet known to man kind, bought every exercise tape, diet pill, miracle shake, diet-center plan etc... etc... I estimate I have spent as much on useless weight loss products as I have on my horses /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (pretty scarey)

I am at a point in my life that I have said ENOUGH!!!!! I eat healthy - fruit, vegetables, lean meat, grains. I don't drink soda, only water and I TRY to limit sugar though I must admit life is not worth living without CHOCOLATE! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I power walk every day and try to get to the mountains for a snowshoe, hike or backpack at least a couple of times a month. I'm NOT SKINNY and won't ever be and I wish the whole world would quit telling me and every other woman out there that I'm a terrible person because I'm not skinny, that no one will love me because I am not skinny, that I will never have succes because I am not skinny. #@$%

I'm FIT and STRONG and HEALTHY and my hair isn't falling out and my finger nails aren't splitting and my breath doesn't stink (all of the things that happen when you starve yourself).

I think everyone on this board needs to start pushing back with every opportunity. Keep writing to AHSA but do more. I was looking through a tack catalog the other day, I don't remember which one off the top of my head, but I know they were advertising breeches for the "curvey" rider. The model who was wearing them was a STICK!!! I showed the picture to my husband and asked him if he considered the model curvey. He laughed - "she has a figure like a 14 year-old boy". I will go home tonight and write a letter to that tack company - I encourage each of you to do the same.

It's time we send a strong message to the advertisers, the media, the AHSA, and the judges, coaches, trainers etc..... that our young women are becoming mentally ill because of unrealistic expectations placed on them.

I remember being a teenager, I remember the peer pressure, I remember what was important to me then, and I can completely understand why this is affecting our youth the way it is. Don't lecture them - encourage them to find help - from someone who can give them the tools to help recover. They have to find the strength within themselves to want to make the change - help them find a way to find that strength.

[Magical]

I have been following this board for a while now, but I've been very hesitant to post on it, especially on this specific topic. I decided that I would share my story. I'm a 17 yr old girl who shows in the older large jr's on the AAA curcit. I do farely well and I have what people would call a "rider's" body. But, this is not a story about me, it is a story about my best friend-
Last spring break I went to florida with six other girls, all of my best friends. One of my friends, Kat, had an eating disorder, she was both anorexic and belimic, it just depended on the week. We all knew it, but the way we were raised, wverything was VERY hush-hush. EVERYTHING- from drinking to smoking to sex to eating disorders- you name it- we didn't talk about it. We all came from basically the same background...wealthy, backwards, set in their ways family, we were all on the prom cout together, we were the "most popular" girls in school. We all had major flaws that we managed to hide, for a while at least. Mine was that I was a severe overacheaver...but that is a whole nuther story. Anyway, Kat went into the bathroom to "do her duty", or shall I say vomit up the cracker and a half she shoved down her throat. I waited for her outside her excesivly large beach house in Palm Beach. After 30 min. I got worried about her, so I went inside to look for her. I looked all around the first floor and noticed the elevator said it was on the 4th floor(I told you this house was ridiculous!). So, I took the elevator up. the only bathroom on that floor was locked, so I yelled out "Kat! Answer the door!" When she didn't, I broke the door down with a chair. I found her lying on her stomach in a pool of bllod on the what was once white tile floor. I turned her over on her back and saw her eyes were still open...so being my genius self I thought this meant she was still alive. I screamed for her to wake up, so loud that one of my friends from downstairs heard me and came up to find me covered in Kat's blood. She called an ambulance, but she was allready dead...there was nothing they could do. So, I sat there for three hours, holding my best friend in my arms, SCREAMING for her to wake up. When I was finally pried away from her body I realized she wasn't coming back. The next day we flew home on Kat's plane adn the folowing day we attended her funeral.
I thought for sooo long that I had killed her. That me not telling anyone about her disorder had killed her. She actually died of a brain anorizim...that is why there was so much blood, she got a bloody nose. I had to change schools, change friends, change attitudes about life, change my self-esteem, change everything baout me to be able to cope with loosing Kat. I ended up moving away and lived with my god parents for a while, b/c being in that city and seeing her house made me physically ill. She still haunts me... I see her EVERYWHERE I go. Not just people that look like her, her. Nonexistant images I have in my mind of her. I am still in thearapy trying to deal with the pain.
ALL OF YOU GIRLS WHO THINK YOU"RE FAT: Get help! If not for you, for you're best friend and you're family, it is the hardes thing I have ever expeirenced in my life...clutching my dead friend in my arms, trying to bring her back to life. DON"T DO THIS TO YOURSELF! PLEASE... I know what I'm talking about- I was their...I watched my best friend of 14 years die b/c she wanted to loose ten pounds! "WAKE UP! WAKE UP!"- this is diredted to all of you- WAKE UP- before you can't wake up anymore- WAKE UP before it's too late.

[CTT]

Majical thankyou for that gut wrenching post. Im glad you found the abilaty to say this. Its a mental overload and im sure you feel a little better to get it out of your system. You are a brave girl. and for that I give you my bigest applaud i have to give. You realy deserve it. It takes alot of guts to do what you just did. Thankyou and if you ever need someone to talk with please contact me. also since you have been a friend of a victam I would like to get to gether with you to posably write something for some projects that have been discussed. Only if you are willing though. You are a strong person and ypu will liook back on this and realize how much you have mentaly grown because of this.

[Weatherford]

Magical - amazing post - thank you! Please contact CTT (or me) about writing this for more than the cyberworld to read - It is VERY VERY important.
Meanwhile, take care of yourself!!!

[This message has been edited by Weatherford (edited 04-11-2000).]

[Regalmeans]

Magical - your post brought tears to my eyes - and moved me more than I have words to tell.

Thank you for sharing.

Sarah

[J. Turner]

Magical -- thank you. People think that having money and a winning A3 hunter is everything. It's not.

I'm a teacher, and I struggled with whether to work in the inner city, or not. Some of my master's degree colleagues refused to work in a suburban/wealthy/or private school. My philosophy:

Mental pain knows no financial bounds.

There's always a kid somewhere, anywhere who needs help.

[Magical]

CTT- I would love to write articles or sroties about my expireiences...I would just like to stay anonomous...so if it can be done that way I would be more than willing to contribute.

[Regalmeans]

Magical - you realy should consider that - it could help so many people! It scares me how invincible people think the are - they don't seem to realize that losing weight can be an addicition just like drugs or alcohol.

Sarah (who has posted WAY to many times on this thread - and doesn't plan to stop)

PS _- um... hey guys? Are we going to need a Weight Issue III thread here? B/c we are fast approaching having a page 3 of this thread... /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

[CTT]

Sarah Ill let you take it to the third if need be. I wish I knew you back when. Weatherford you too. Maby weatherford we can get something going soon and with your posative encuragement we will get all we talked about rolling. Actualy Majic Im talking with erin to remain nameless on what I have been asked to write. send me a note and Ill send you what erin sent me. We have a group thing going at the moment and I would like to include you and sarah on it too so sarah send me a note to. also Snowbird are you interested? I would like to have you on the team. Even for me I will be nameless if I write cause there are still people who I don't want to know about this. Even my initials which I post under will give off my identity to people. So I have chosen the name charley to write all of this under. Erin would that be ok if I used this name? I just don't want to use my real name. thats all. Its a long story but there are a select fue that do read this magazine that would hunt me down and make my life horible if they knew. Its that person that trys to make sure your life is a liveing hell and folows you till they know you are 6 ft under. Thats why. When Im finaly maried I hope my new last name will close the conection and let me be free from them. Erin Now you understand why and show your boss this. so whoever wants to get in with me on this project we have going let me know and maby weatherford Majic can help you and me with our side project between us. as an example of the friends point of view. See you all later. Im off to dallas in the morning and will try to find a computer to check up on all of you. Maby together we can all start something to get us to a better point on this topic. Erin I hope it has an efect on people. Also If it does I would be willing to help anyone that may ask for help on this. Lets do something about this and be heard even if its breaf atleast we were heard and can go from there.
CTT

[Snowbird]

CTT,
I understand you fears. I would be glad to help anyway I can. I am not anonymous, I am sure you all know me. I admire youth and would do anything to help stop it from being wasted.

I will say this to you, you will never be free until you can face your fears and win over them. No one can make you miserable, we do that to ourselves. You make me feel proud to chat with you, so you should feel proud of who you are. Remember that old commercial, Flaunt it!

Two things about riding a course that I love:
1. is the fact that you can't do it if you look down at where you are and

2. You always have your eye on where you have to go and not where you've been. What a lesson to practice all through your life.

Just think you can turn a 1200 pound horse just by turning your head around a corner.

PS. I would like to add that while I admire youth, I am not ashamed of old age.

[Black Market Radio]

Ok, I am going to post the two different reply's I got from the AHSA from two different people, I wrote everyone with an e-mail address on the website, and here were two of the responses:

I agree totally with your points. I have never heard a judge directly tell
any competitors this however. Unfortunately, even though the clinics for
judges make clear that this is not a judging factor, the well published
comments of a couple of promenent people in this end of the sport carry a lot
of weight (pardon the pun!) with the impressionable kids. That along with
the fact that so many winners are blessed with the 'willowy' figures that do
look great on a horse will make this a continuing problem I am sure. To me
the equitation division is becoming a 'specialist' division where, at the top
levels, one must be blessed with certain attributes in order to really
excell. Let's face it in dressage a horse has to have balance and movement,
hunters have to move and jump in a defined style, in three day galloping
ability and bravery are inherent necessities, etc., etc. I would hope that
instead of getting rid of equitation - or trying to legislate 'equality' - we
could develop some other avenues where 'horsemanship' is more of the deciding
factor instead of style. then the rider without the conformation can excel
on their own terms, and let's face it in far more important areas than
winning the equitation on the flat 14-17!!!

There are some new programs starting up in various parts of the country that
incorporate written and practical horsemanship as a large percentage of the
score - outweighing the riding in most cases. I love these programs and hope
that there will be widespread support for them. Meanwhile, as sad as it is,
I am afraid that there will always be lazy judges and hungry trainers
encouraging (or not discouraging) young riders to try to become unnaturally
what they think is 'the style.' Crazy society that we live in...

thanks for your note. Would you mind putting something up on my Guest
Commentary on this regard on my website (www.jumpsmartonline.com)? (http://www.jumpsmartonline.com)?) Thanks
again.

Other response:

I think you will find that it is trainers way before judges

That second one REALLY made me mad! Here was my response to that:

It starts from judges making comments about girls needing to lose a few
extra pounds to win. The trainers push what the judges pin, not the
other way around.

The first person had the right idea, but thise second person is your typical AHSA jerk http://www.chronofhorse.com/ubb/mad.gif

[Snowbird]

Good GOD! That is really sick. They are suggesting that it is not possible to be judged for your equitation at all! What a horrible idea.

So why bother with a horse, let's have equitation classes on a plastic horse posed over a plastic fence and then see who is the most plastic looking rider. That is apparently the idea behind equitation.OH! Yes the theoretical rider is for everyone over size 2.

Well no wonder, the kids are smarter than we are and the equitation classes have nearly disappeared abolve 2'6". SHAME SHAME on the AHSA.

If this is progress in the pursuit of excellence then we have no sport.

Keep the email going to everyone. Don't let them off the hook. An email a week from everyone who cares about this issue to each and every member of the Licensed Officials Committee and the Junior Hunter Equitation committee. Flood their boxes and their fax machines until they understand that we won't take that answer, it is not acceptable. They can keep making excuses but the mail won't stop until they open their eyes and see the real world which is not size 2.

By their standards how many of hem meet the size 2 standard? Ask them in your mail and what size do you wear? Maybe all judges should be size 2! Better yet, then we demand that every member of the Board of Directors meet the same idealic standard they want from the children. PUT UP GUYS! Or Butt OUT! and judge the quality of the riding, the control of the mount and the skills demonstrated. This is an art form.
Pretty is as pretty does.

[This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 04-12-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 04-12-2000).]

[WarPaint]

I have been avoiding posting on this thread because weight is something that I am not particularly comfortable talking about. I am overweight (and by overweight I do NOT mean a size 8... more like a 14) and it has always made me unhappy. I have tried everything to lose weight, EXCEPT STARVE MYSELF or turn to an eating disorder. And I never plan to. It truly frightens me to read what is being posted here, and I would like to thank CTT, Sarah, Snowbird, and everyone else for their wonderfully encouraging posts. You guys are truly inspirational. I have done many reports on eating disorders for school and I know a lot about the scientific end of it, plus a lot of statistics that are as frightening as what I am reading on this thread. My close friend was anorexic and reading Majic's post I realize how lucky I am that she got help and got better rather than going the other way. As someone with a lot of writing experience, I would love more than anything to assist you all in any way possible with what you are doing, because it is something I feel strongly about and working with people as knowlegable and helpful as you guys would be great. Please let me know if I can help in any way. Thank you so much for your encouraging posts, they have made me realize even more that I'd rather have a few extra pounds, or stop eating bad things and lose weight the NATURAL way, than ruin my riding career or my life. Thanks.

[HunterPonyRider]

Hi! My site the Pony Circuit just opened up a section for "junior" riders. I am having trouble coming up with ideas for it, but I think having an article about this entire situation. Can someone e-mail me ( ThePonyCircuit@email.com (http://ThePonyCircuit@email.com) ) if you are interested in writing an article about this? I think it would benefit a lot of people and help people realize that they need to except who they are. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Black Market Radio]

You want an even better response? This was in my mailbox this morning!

are you perhaps confusing the riding world with the DRIVING world? We have
many "plump" men and women driving and happily competing, and I have only
recently heard on the carriage driving list that someone somewhere commented
on a driver's weight. The ADS has no specs anywhere regarding the weight of
the people on the carriage. That the United States is obsessed with thinness
is a general, societal problem that seems to be ever influential, yet we are
still the most overwieght people in the world (myself included!).
I am not sure what I can do about this problem, but really, it doesn't seem
to be one in ADS driving competitions.

Here's my response:

I am talking about the hunter world mostly, especially the equitation
classes. My point was to raise awareness to everyone, because even
though it's not our discipline doesn't mean it's not our problem. We as
a whole equestrian world need to stand up and put a halt to this. I
don't even ride eq, I am a dressage rider, but I have seen how this type
of behavior from judges and trainers destroy people. Have you ever known
anyone with an eating disorder? One of my best friends has one and it's
heartbreaking to see her go through it. Please don't just ignore it and
say "It's not my discipline so it's not my problem." I am sure you go to
the same meetings as the h/j people, maybe you and everyone else (I
e-mailed everyone in the AHSA who has an e-mail address with this same
letter) should discuss this issue. It is a huge problem and it needs to
be talked about instead of swept under the rug. Thank you for your time.

[Heather]

Well, this thread has been really amazing, and very inspiring. The young people who have stated their experiences here have broken my heart many times over--in fact since I read this at work, I thinki my boss must think I'm having a nervous breakdown since he keeps finding me with tears streaming down my face. You are all very brave and my heart goes out to you.

What I did want to briefly comment on however, was the negative response to an individual from the driving community's response. While I firmly agree that this is an issue that EVERYONE should get behind, I must say that this is not an issue that everyone in the horse world is experienced with. I event, and have little or no interaction with the "big eq" or big hunter world. And, as such, this whole thread has been a shocker for me--and something I had NO idea about. In my sport there is what I would call an "expectation of fitness" but I have never, ever, heard comment about a being a given weight, size or shape. In fact, in years past when the weight rule was still in effect , people of smaller stature would eat like crazy prior to a three day so that they could bulk up as much as possible so their horses wouldn't have to carry as much lead to meet the 165 lb requirement. Generally, I see lots of fit riders at events--I see very few "skinny" ones--they usually start hanging all over their horse before the end of cross-country because they don't have the strength to maintain it. (Obviously, there are some people who are now and always will be twigs and do fine). So, based on my experience within my own sport, if you had come to me several weeks ago, prior to my reading this thread, and asked me "Is there a problem with eating disorders in riding?" I would honestly have said no.

What I am trying in a convoluted way to say is that this person may have responded initially this way, because they can't imagine the depth or seriousness of this problem--as I said I have been shocked by these threads--I really had no idea. I would say the real determination should come after a response to the second message--and the ultimate determination would be someone's response to this thread and any resulting articles.

Anyway, I hope y'all don't see this as a flame, its not at all, as I said I have been very moved by all I have seen here. I just wanted you to know its not like this in all horse sports, so it may take some time for people to understand what you guys have been going through and dealing with. For what its worth, I have been telling everyone I can think of to come here and read these threads.

[Regalmeans]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CTT:
Sarah Ill let you take it to the third if need be. I wish I knew you back when. Weatherford you too. Maby weatherford we can get something going soon and with your posative encuragement we will get all we talked about rolling. Actualy Majic Im talking with erin to remain nameless on what I have been asked to write. send me a note and Ill send you what erin sent me. We have a group thing going at the moment and I would like to include you and sarah on it too so sarah send me a note to. also Snowbird are you interested? I would like to have you on the team.
CTT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the invite CTT! - I'll email you when I get home (I'm at school now and I don't like using my email here b/c it is impossible to get into - so I'll email you from my real account or you can drop me a line regalmeans@home.com - I have more to say but I have to get to class - and I was working on my letters to the AHSA last night - but I'm still not quite sure what to say can anyone (Snowbird, CTT, etc..) give me some ideas? Thanks!

~Sarah

[Bascule]

I'm going to start a third thread guys. It'll be there, if we need it.

[Black Market Radio]

Heather, in response to your response from my response as the response to the response from the driving person /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif the reason I responded that way is because we need to get out of the "It's not MY discipline so it's not my problem" mindset. I think it's sad that you have the same nindset as they do. It's not just the problem of the hunter world, it's all of our problem and the more of us there are to fight it the better.

[Heather]

Ah, much as I feared DevilDog, you misunderstood me. I absolutely do not believe that it is just "your" disipline, and I agree that this should be something the whole of horsesports is involved in. I agree with you completely on that. What I was trying to say was, don't think that this individual is the antichrist, just because he/she didn't "get" what you were saying the first time around. If you haven't seen the depth and breadth of what's written here it is hard to imagine that such is the case--especially if there are similar circumstances within your own discipline. E-mail this person these threads, and see if you don't get a different response--if you don't then fine, fire away, because to read these testimonials and not be moved IS a disgrace.

Does that make any better sense?

[Black Market Radio]

You took my reply totally wrong, I in no way made it sound like they were the anti-christ, It was not very negative, and I don't see how you took it that way. I re-read it doesn't sound like I am putting down a specific person, and it is in the same tone as what was written to me. What I was trying to do is RAISE AWARENESS and the response I got from that particular person was pretty much "it's not my discipline so it doesn't concern me" I wasn't aware of this problem before either, but guess what? My initial response was not "Well, I am a dressage rider and WE don't have that problem." So what you said about her initial response I feel is totally bogus. Because I did something about it, I started e-mailing everyone, even the president of the AHSA. BUT IT CAN'T STOP THERE! As Snowbird says, we gotta keep on them and NOT take the attitude of that driving person. I was totally offended by her response.

[Heather]

DevilDog, I guess I just didn't see her response in the same way you did--it seemed to me that she was trying to understand why you were contacting her since I would imagine most of her correspondance from strangers is related strictly to driving issues. In fact, her intial line "Are you sure you aren't talking about riding issues" indicated to me that she wasn't 100% clear that you weren't trying to discuss driving with her. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just felt like she was more confused than turning her nose up at you.

And I also was taking issue with you saying that I was taking an "it's-not-my-discipline-so-who-cares" attitude, becasue I tried hard to point out that I personally have been VERY moved by these threads, and have recommended them as reading to friends in my and other disciplines.

Again, I believe 100% in what you are doing--and I commend you for your actions. I guess I just interpreted her letter in a different fashion that you did.

Not trying to argue--just clarify my point/position

[Black Market Radio]

Ok Heather! Friends? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Heather]

Sounds Good!

[CTT]

Glad to see you two made up /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Weatherford]

Moving this one up, too. Please don't post here, just read and post to Weight III.

[Weatherford]

Moving this up again - post replies to Weight III or Weight....Back Again.

[Weatherford]

Moving up, yet again, ditto previous comments...