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findeight
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:13 AM
I thought it was just me until I noticed another poster remarking on the change at PH.
I used to look forward to the useful tid bits and hints every month. Now the content is drifting toward the novice rider and first horse owners.
Now review and basics ARE important and beginners and non horse owners need a place to get information too I don't mean to suggest otherwise.

But those of us who show liked having a nice colorful monthly with leading show H/J riders, news (late but still pertinent) including show reports as well as all kinds of clearly communicated excercises to keep us motivated. Even trainers used to take some lesson drills out of the magazine to incorporate into advanced over fences lessons. Sadly it's been some time since I could read the magazine and know what was in store at lessons.
Now the issues are slanted to serve the fast growing novice market with basic horse care articles and most of the training devoted to this level of riding. Sadly this must be where the ad revenues are directing them.
The monthly covor story, like this month's Anne Kusinski turning excercise, takes up only a few pages and leads to another comment.....Would whoever transcribes or edits these pro interviews stop making every month's sound exactly the same?? Nothing at all of each pro's style is remaining in these, no more "what makes them different". The style is exactly the same as the adult beginner article, the Get Straight article, and the intraining piece on rubbing. Not naive I realize somebody needs to write the stuff based on pro feedback and interviews but it did not used to be this noticeable.
It did not used to all be aimed at the novice either.
My biggest complaint is that I cannot understand the remaining advanced ones anymore...and I agree with other posters that the diagram on page 55 is wrong according to the text on page 58 as the figure 8 exercise is changed...whoever wrote this did themore common exercise they were familiar with not the unusual variation as described by Ms Kursinski.

For those of us who really show and have been in horses for awhile there is little of interest here anymore. I will miss the GM column but not the every couple of months tirade of letters saying he is "wrong" and "mean" PH feels are more important to print then the old style PH which would use the space for another piece for the active competition rider. One we could understand and which captured their style.

Too bad but when my subsciption (since 94) expires I won't renew.
Good old COTH will be the sole remaining monthly.

err.. of course I mean weekly, only magazine of any kind.

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

[This message was edited by findeight on Mar. 04, 2002 at 12:28 PM.]

findeight
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:13 AM
I thought it was just me until I noticed another poster remarking on the change at PH.
I used to look forward to the useful tid bits and hints every month. Now the content is drifting toward the novice rider and first horse owners.
Now review and basics ARE important and beginners and non horse owners need a place to get information too I don't mean to suggest otherwise.

But those of us who show liked having a nice colorful monthly with leading show H/J riders, news (late but still pertinent) including show reports as well as all kinds of clearly communicated excercises to keep us motivated. Even trainers used to take some lesson drills out of the magazine to incorporate into advanced over fences lessons. Sadly it's been some time since I could read the magazine and know what was in store at lessons.
Now the issues are slanted to serve the fast growing novice market with basic horse care articles and most of the training devoted to this level of riding. Sadly this must be where the ad revenues are directing them.
The monthly covor story, like this month's Anne Kusinski turning excercise, takes up only a few pages and leads to another comment.....Would whoever transcribes or edits these pro interviews stop making every month's sound exactly the same?? Nothing at all of each pro's style is remaining in these, no more "what makes them different". The style is exactly the same as the adult beginner article, the Get Straight article, and the intraining piece on rubbing. Not naive I realize somebody needs to write the stuff based on pro feedback and interviews but it did not used to be this noticeable.
It did not used to all be aimed at the novice either.
My biggest complaint is that I cannot understand the remaining advanced ones anymore...and I agree with other posters that the diagram on page 55 is wrong according to the text on page 58 as the figure 8 exercise is changed...whoever wrote this did themore common exercise they were familiar with not the unusual variation as described by Ms Kursinski.

For those of us who really show and have been in horses for awhile there is little of interest here anymore. I will miss the GM column but not the every couple of months tirade of letters saying he is "wrong" and "mean" PH feels are more important to print then the old style PH which would use the space for another piece for the active competition rider. One we could understand and which captured their style.

Too bad but when my subsciption (since 94) expires I won't renew.
Good old COTH will be the sole remaining monthly.

err.. of course I mean weekly, only magazine of any kind.

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

[This message was edited by findeight on Mar. 04, 2002 at 12:28 PM.]

Bumpkin
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:16 AM
I wonder if COTH has thought about picking up some articles that are more training oriented, to pick up subscription sales? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Jair
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:24 AM
I have been thinking the same thing about PH for the last several months FindEight. I no longer find the training articles interesting as they are almost too basic.

And you are dead on about the similarity of all the training articles. The do all sound the same - maybe the equestrian who wrote the article do not get a final look at it before printing, and its just the ghost writer who finishes it up.

However, I still really like the Thinking Horseman editorial each month and the focus articles on individual riders. They are usually still very good. I enjoy reading about how other people have suceeded in our sports /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

They did the same thing with "Dressage and CT" magazine a few years ago, which used to be quite technical and in-depth, and a very very good read, but the PH bought it out (or the distributor) and dumbed it down so it is basically the same as PH now. :-/

I wish someone would do a magazine that was aimed more at the intermediate level rider who is also interested in more advanced riding. Both Horse International and Eventing are good examples of ones that provide more in-depth articles and interviews.

no longer a BBer
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:25 AM
I actually like some of the basic horse care articles, such as what to do when your horse gets kicked and basic first aid things.

I think the BAR (Beginning adult rider) section is boring because I am not a beginner, or an adult. LOL

Go Get 'Em Tiger!!!

no longer a BBer
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:26 AM
The articles by Beezie Madden, Todd Minikus, Louise Serio, and Scott Hofstetter about what to do when certain things (chip, loose a sturrip) are vert good.

I would not like to see show results in PH. That is what the Chronicle is for.

Go Get 'Em Tiger!!!

Elmo
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:36 AM
I agree that PH is not as good as before, but there is another mag that is better, but probably not for you guys.

It is an Ontario circuit mag called the Corinthian, gives all the results and all that good stuff. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

wanderlust
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:36 AM
I let my PH subscription run out after they started in with all the articles aimed at the beginner/first timer/returning-after-20-year- sabbatical type. Adds absolutely no value for me... just 30 pages I have to turn before I get to George Morris.

They make a magazine for the people described above... it is called "Horse Illustrated." /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Dementia 13
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:41 AM
Blech. I just got my first issue after a 4 year hiatus.

I won't renew.

I treasure the PHs I have from the late 70s, early 80s to mid-90s. Wonderful, practical articles with exercises you can actually do and learn from. I used to also enjoy the articles like how Francesca Mazella won the Medal and Maclay, and Geoff Teal's experiences with the Jacobs family. Do they still ride by the way?

"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

findeight
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:42 AM
As I said no knock on beginners. But go back and read the other pro articles and they all sound the same from month to month. And by show reports I mean interviews with leading riders (not results) like "well Ms Goldstein-Engle what do you think of your new 6 year old and his High Prelim win"
Even though I have a full time trainer to tell me about lost stirrups and chips she still used to get some great exercises or insight out of PH that are not there anymore.

I am solely speaking as a long time owner and competitor who sadly doesn't read much of this anymore.

Must say read a Horse and Rider the other day...same old same old... No more good advanced stuff, just identical stuff to PH on trailers, shots and winter blankets. One badly written and confusing piece by a leading reiner that sounded the same as the others.

Can't somebody combine advanced interests into their magazine with the novice stuff????????

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

OnyxThePony
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:46 AM
I've felt that way re: PH for years now. It might be nice to have a really fresh training magazine, but I wonder what the market appeal would be? I can see why PH has gone the way they have, and I love the shiney photos and the (obvious) re-affirmation that certain techniques and exercises will always be 'right', but it does lack the technical.
HEY! Maybe we need a Technical Horseman instead (or alongside) a Practical Horseman!! Also remember, these magazines are published from a group, not necessarily by core of horsey professionals.

PS- ELMO !!!! WHAT?! Is the Corinthian still around??? Do they have a Website?? BossHoss NEEDS a subscription!!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Big Things Ahead!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AAJumper
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:48 AM
Findeight, I couldn't agree with you more. Lately when I receive the magazine, I thumb through, only to find a bunch of articles that make me think I am back to reading Equus (that is full of articles having to do with horse care, trailering, etc.). Yes, there is a need for magazines like Equus, but I don't want it...that's why I let my subscription to that magazine lapse. I started reading PH because I liked the technical articles. Now, like you said, it seems very focused on novice horse owners, and I have no interest in most of the articles.

I don't think I will renew my subscription when it comes due either.

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

Maxx
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:53 AM
Agree with the above. I can remember WAY back when PH used to be the Pennsylvania Horse. As MargaretF said, many good "inside" articles, stories on the old Winter Place Farm, Jimmy Lee, Patty Heuckeroth. Even the articles with top pros are now geared to the novice rider.

LaurieB
Mar. 4, 2002, 10:05 AM
Sadly, I also agree. The articles I enjoy most now are those increasingly rare ones where the top trainers give their impressions of what's right and wrong about horse shows these days and what might be done to change them.

I was talking to Geoff Teall in Florida. He writes occasionally for PH and has an article on judging coming out sometime soon. He said he does all his own writing, then an editor at the magazine "cleans it up" and does a bit of rewriting. The copy is then shipped back to him for his approval. If he thinks they've changed things too much, he simply changes it back. I do think he is one pro, writing for PH, whose own voice really shines through.

Inverness
Mar. 4, 2002, 10:08 AM
I'm still very much at the point where I can get valuable tips from PH. However, after only 2 and half years of riding, I can already see the point at which the format will have limited utility even to me.

I enjoy reading more detailed and advanced advice/descriptions even if it'll be years before I can use them. I think there is value in understanding advanced concepts before one actually gets to that point in his/her riding.

You can put me in the adult beginner category that wants more articles for advanced riders.

" Adopt the pace of nature; her secret is patience."
--Emerson

findeight
Mar. 4, 2002, 10:32 AM
And that is a great point about exposing novices to the upper levels.
When I was still knocking around bareback in a backyard the neighbor boy won the (then) AHSA Stock Seat Medal Finals, other neighbors had Arabs and Morgans and I was exposed to their show circuit. Without that exposure I would never have moved up the levels.
If a magazine could provide the novice with info pertinent to them plus entertain more advanced riders with stories about leading horse/rider combos and training theories they would have lifetime subscribers.....funny I let my subsciption to Equus go for the same reason.

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

Merry
Mar. 4, 2002, 11:20 AM
Unfortunately it all comes down to basic demographics. Right now the biggest equestrian market in both consumers and readers is the adult amateur/mid-novice level horse owner. The advertisers want to put their ads in the mags that reach their biggest market, and ads are primarily what pay most any magazine's bills.

There have been a couple of start-up magazines that were aimed at an upper level competitor. The articles were composed mainly of interviews with international level riders. I know, I wrote for them! And guess what? High praise, good feedback, but low subscriptions and low ads. So the magazines died. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Think of it like starting up a new TV series. It doesn't matter much who watches it, or what the critics think. It's HOW MANY people watch it.

"You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at." -- The Sundance Kid

Hopeful Hunter
Mar. 4, 2002, 11:30 AM
Count me among those who truly dislike what's happened with horse mags. Since Primedia bought most of them, the similarities and lack of depth is awful!
Geoff Teal's article was a rare glimpse of something that had a spark of originality -- the rest are just the same flavor. Sad, but true.

One magazine that I do still like is Hunter and SportHorse. It's only bi-monthly, but some of the articles do seem to have more of interest to someone who is more intermediate/advanced and wants to hear other ideas and approaches.

But other than that one, I don't know of anything else. I wonder if a mass letter-writing campaign might help get PH to refocus a bit?

onthebit
Mar. 4, 2002, 11:47 AM
Although I no longer subscribe to PH for the above reasons, they still have good articles from time to time. The recent two-parter by Katie Prudent was good and the one in this month's issue by Anne Kursinski. For the most part both articles contained exercises I have seen and/or done before, but it never hurts to do them again or to read their explanations of what you are trying to get from the exercise, troubleshooting tips, etc. So although I no longer subscribe, I check out each month's issue to see if it is worth buying, as sometimes it is.

Synrgystyk
Mar. 4, 2002, 11:49 AM
I've had a subscription since it was Midwest Hunter and was free. I keep wishing it was monthly, but I'm not sure I could stand more than one "stallion issue" per year. (They ought to laminate that one before they send it. My friends and I spend so much time drooling over the stallions -- and all of us own geldings -- that it's a real mess by the time we're done!)

Lorree

Reality is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

Sandy M
Mar. 4, 2002, 12:06 PM
When PH changed its form to almost unreadable, I e-mailed them that I would not be renewing, and I have not. I do occasionally see it as a freebie passed on from friends, etc. Yes, it has been dumbed Waaaaay down. Strange. They can't seem to find a happy medium. It used to be strictly "A" circuit and no horse existed that cost less than $50,000 (that would be a green one, right?). Or articles like how to adjust your standing martingale, whether you need one or not, because it "looks nice." (not starting an argument, but just illustrating the tone of articles.) Now it's how to walk up a hill, for Pete's sake! I see there are still occasionally interesting articles on soundness issues, and I thought the recent trailering article was good. It gave me ammunition to try to convince friends that a Jeep Wagoneer is NOT the best choice for a tow vehicle unless they are planning on buying a Brenderup! LOL

Pookah
Mar. 4, 2002, 12:48 PM
So can someone print this out and send it to PH? I used to be a faithful subscriber, but gave it up in college because I didn't have time to read it (or the energy to change my address annually, at least). I picked up a copy last week because I have a friend who is truck shopping. That article had great basic hauling info (although I own the book it was based on, so I could have lived without), but I was totally disappointed with the articles. Years ago, my family subscribed to every major English horse magazine-Equus, COTH, Dressage Today, etc, and dropped them all except PH. Very disappointing.

"The only thing you will ever get two horsepeople to agree on is that the third one is wrong" -Author Unknown

Coreene
Mar. 4, 2002, 01:06 PM
It's all down to demographics.

What I particularly hate is how every story stars out with something like "In this article I'm going to show you how to ____. I'm going to give you ________ and this ________," bla bla bla.

Well ...

A) don't patronize me
B) let me read it for myself instead of telling me what I'm about to read
C) don't patronize me
D) stop giving away the story
E) don't patronize me
F) hello, where did you go to J School
G) don't patronize me

tle
Mar. 4, 2002, 01:15 PM
but coreene.. if you read any tips on public speaking, they ALWAYS tell you to tell the audience what the subject is about. "Tell them what you're going to tell them... tell them... then tell them what you told them". Perhaps they aren't trying to be patronizing, but are following this type of rule.

I agree that the article in PH are leaving less and less to be desired. I've just recently let my subscription run out as not only do I not have the funds at the moment, but I kept finding myself reading less and less and being less and less anxious to pick it up.

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

Survivor thoughts -- buh-bye yoga freak! (hey, it's the only way I can talk Survivor on this board without Erin shooting me!)

Coreene
Mar. 4, 2002, 01:20 PM
If you did, you'd notice it everywhere. It's just an unfortunate (and irritating) style thing that someone at PH seems to think is a good idea.

Blech.

Do you know ... my foray into public speaking was cut short. I was volunteering as a show announcer and they said I was too much of a gasbag.

findeight
Mar. 4, 2002, 01:31 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by coreene:
If you did, you'd notice it everywhere. It's just an unfortunate (and irritating) style thing that someone at PH seems to think is a good idea.

Blech.

You said it girlfriend.......................
And don't patronize me either. Glad to see I am not the only one who feels "talked down to".
They may end up with a mainly too young to buy anything readership if they keep this up.

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

Erin
Mar. 4, 2002, 01:34 PM
Well, with a how-to article (which is essentially what almost every article in PH is), I'm not sure that the "tell 'em what you're going to tell 'em..." strategy is such a bad idea.

Those articles are supposed to be formulaic. They need to be absolutely crystal clear and dummyproof. Besides, there ain't a lot of room for creativity in "how to walk up a hill."

JMHO... it's probably just the style they've decided to use. Although I haven't seen a PH for a number of years, so who knows...

Coreene
Mar. 4, 2002, 02:14 PM
Those articles are already "dummyproof," they don't need further dumbing down.

Another reason I cannot watch local news in Los Angeles. The "Look, I Dyed My Eyebrows To Match My Hair" Dumbass News.

findeight
Mar. 4, 2002, 02:26 PM
Erin just thumb through one in your tack store. Save your money. It is bad.
Clear is one thing. These are condescending. Treat the reader as a dummy. And every single one has the same...
Now we are going to tell you_____ about_____, remember you will need_____and_________to complete this excercise. At the end you will have learned_______and___as well as_____.
Just fill in the blanks.
Nothing over two syllables either.

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

Mar. 4, 2002, 02:29 PM
I only subscribe to those 2. Hunter Sport Horse cause its cheap for a poor college student and I LOVE it!! Espically the top 10 lists!

Chronicle I got a year gift subscription and love it!

**Elizabeth***
The former I'm real
Disgruntled College Students Clique ROCKS!!!!!
Proud Bubblehead for 8 years
"Who can say when your heart sighs, only time" --Enya

Coreene
Mar. 4, 2002, 02:37 PM
This topic is a great co-inky-dinky because I got my renewal thing in the mail last week. I'm letting it slide.

SBT
Mar. 4, 2002, 02:46 PM
...but luckily, I have a HUGE backlog of the great issues from the mid-90's. I let my subscription run out, then picked up a few single issues. It got to the point where all I was interested in reading was GM's Jumping Clinic. (That was always the first thing I turned to /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) Recently, I picked up an issue at the tack store. I read Jumping Clinic and put it straight back on the rack. That tells you how I feel about the rest of the content...

BTW, findeight, was I the "other poster who remarked at the change in PH?" If so, I'm glad it's not just me who's noticed! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Sara /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

"It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice."

[This message was edited by sbt78lw on Mar. 04, 2002 at 09:16 PM.]

LaurieB
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:00 PM
Where's the Jumping Clinic going? /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

InWhyCee
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:02 PM
I work in the publishing industry and can assure you that advertisers have been extremely hard to come by during the past year, and especially since 9/11. Many magazines in many categories (not just equine) are being forces to tailor their content to attract the widest possible audience and, more importantly, an audience that will SPEND MONEY ON THE ADVERTISERS' GOODIES. For PH, that's Miss Newbie who needs a new everything, not Miss A-Circuit who has everything already (and will replace it only at Beval's).

So, if the current format bothers you, pick up a book (I'm struggling through Mary Wanless at the moment) -- I doubt it will change anytime soon.

RE: Those PH rider profiles: BIG YAWN. I'm tired of reading about "struggling" young riders who happen to be married to the offspring of wealthy owners, or whose parents own a barn, or of "winning" owners who have yet to ride their own horses. And no matter who the profile is about, it almost always BLAND. The last page "first person" profile always comes off better.

"Any ride is good ride if you dismount voluntarily."

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

kenbiki
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:23 PM
I'm not renewing that's for sure!!

PonyJumperGRL
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:28 PM
Amen!

PonyJumperGRL
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InWhyCee:
I work in the publishing industry and can assure you that advertisers have been extremely hard to come by during the past year, and especially since 9/11. Many magazines in many categories (not just equine) are being forces to tailor their content to attract the widest possible audience and, more importantly, an audience that will SPEND MONEY ON THE ADVERTISERS' GOODIES. For PH, that's Miss Newbie who needs a new everything, not Miss A-Circuit who has everything already (and will replace it only at Beval's).

So, if the current format bothers you, pick up a book (I'm struggling through Mary Wanless at the moment) -- I doubt it will change anytime soon.

RE: Those PH rider profiles: BIG YAWN. I'm tired of reading about "struggling" young riders who happen to be married to the offspring of wealthy owners, or whose parents own a barn, or of "winning" owners who have yet to ride their own horses. And no matter who the profile is about, it almost always BLAND. The last page "first person" profile always comes off better.

"Any ride is good ride if you dismount voluntarily."

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My trainer did one of those "Into the Life" articles a few years ago. It was the exception. She is a real horse person! She worked as a groom for 8 years for Hap Hansen before she got a small breeding barn manager at El Dorado 29 (former owner's of Southshore). She TRULY worked hard and it shows. Now, its simply about how rich people are succeeding and PURE "BAR" crap. Its got no substance anmore...

DMK
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merry:


Think of it like starting up a new TV series. It doesn't matter much who watches it, or what the critics think. It's HOW MANY people watch it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Merry, what you are telling me is that I am not likely to find the magazine equivalent of Homicide: Life on the Streets?

For the past FOUR years (sorry, I don't think this dummy down trend is that new, just a tad more obvious with the BAR column), I have asked myself every renewal time whether the $24.95 (or whatever) is worth the price of reading Kip Goldreyer's Thinking Horseman column. Finally, this year, it was not...


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

findeight
Mar. 4, 2002, 03:58 PM
I had no idea so many felt this strongly.
Ad revenues or not this started when when an editorial decision was made to center on the novice level rider. Where all the other mags focus too.
Jumping clinic gone????????oh no. Wonder if it is because the novice rider has no use for knowing anything better???
Just too bad they can't make it work with the two levels in balance. Still sell the ads.
Just too bad that PH and Horse and Rider have the same basic stuff in them now in the same condescending style. Wonder what those who improve out of the novice level will read. Doesn't seem to be anything at the moment to help move riders along.

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

Merry
Mar. 4, 2002, 04:01 PM
Yes, DMK, that is what I'm telling you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"You just keep thinkin', Butch. That's what you're good at." -- The Sundance Kid

EventerAJ
Mar. 4, 2002, 04:02 PM
I *really* miss the Conformation Clinic articles; like GM's critiques, I learned a TON of stuff. And no, it was *not* dumbed down at all! Champ Hough never explained how a horse was "light in the gaskin" or what a smooth topline was. But with a little effort (aka common sense and continuous reading) I have a pretty darn good idea about good/bad/indifferent conformation. I dearly wish PH would go back to the way it was.

DMK
Mar. 4, 2002, 04:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merry:
Yes, DMK, that is what I'm telling you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know my heart just got broke every year when inevitably my favorite program was a) TV Guide's "The Best Show You are Not Watching" and b) cancelled (Homicide, Sports Night, etc.)...

Guess I'll just try to stay away from the magazine equivalent of that dubious honor /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


still missing Homicide... guess that must be why I like the D'Onofrio character in L&O/CI - shades of Pembleton there... sigh...


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

msjan
Mar. 4, 2002, 04:08 PM
I have taught riding full-time for 24 years. Until recently, I religiously recommended PH subscriptions for all our riders. I have been so disappointed at the change in focus. I even let my own personal sub. expire a year or so ago. Do I gather from some of these posts that PH is under new ownership? Was that the beginning of the end? Does PH read this msg board? There's less and less content for the serious horseman left anymore. What can we do, PH, to bring it back?

dkcbr
Mar. 4, 2002, 04:12 PM
I let my subscription of years and years' duration lapse because it had gotten boring, formulaic, basic, all that. I loved the Thinking Rider and GM clinic but not enough to keep the subscription. Occasionally I pick it up off the rack but not all that often.

(Relieved to see it's not just me and that I've become jaded in my old age! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

ShowJumps
Mar. 4, 2002, 04:12 PM
That is what B&N is for! Sip your latte and read the three relevant pages of PH in the magazine section. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I lovde the old format and miss it dearly. I did pull out the best of the articles and now keep them in a filing cabinet. I've read them so much I prob know them by hart. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"When I die, I want to die like my grandmother who died peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her car." * Author Unknown

Coreene
Mar. 4, 2002, 04:21 PM
1. there already was an advertising downturn (I was very fortunate in that my publication was not too slammed by it and we really only had two down months; always a bonus when you work in a commission only job; I love selling advertising for a living but this is the third, and worst, ad downturn I've had and it is a real Character Building Exercise)

2. thank goodness I work for a business publication and not consumer or general interest

3. consumer publications, feeling that downturn, restructure so that they can maintain or raise circ numbers and therefore follow the demographic, which in this case results in the dumbing down (it's all in the numbers, baby)

4. all dumb and no gusto makes Jack a dull boy

But here are some interesting advertising statistics, which I wish advertisers would focus on at Times Like This:

Several credible studies have examined the performance differences among businesses that cut advertising, maintained it at a normal level, or increased advertising during a recessionary period. One report, based on data collected by the Profit Impact Market Strategy program and directed by the Strategic Planning Institute, clearly shows that companies aggressively advertising during a recession gained 86% more market share than ad budget-cutting companies (taking into consideration, of course, that any company surviving a recession will gain some market share as weaker competitors disappear).

Aggressively advertising in a down market gives the advertiser more for his or her money because there are fewer competing messages in the marketplace. The PIMS-based data also shows that advertising has a positive impact on the value-quality-price relationship. That is, the higher the perceived value (prices vs. quality), especially in a recession, the greater the opportunity for premium pricing and higher profits.

Just as important as the ability of advertising to sustain and increase market share in a recession is the long-term impact of aggressive advertising in a down market. When the economy recovers, and it always does, the PIMS data shows that the aggressive business performed the average of all businesses by almost 250%.

It takes intestinal fortitude and the ability to look beyond short-term results of aggressively advertising in a down market.

Nikki^
Mar. 4, 2002, 04:27 PM
How about PH make a special issue that shows Pro riders being in a jumping clinic. I'd like to read what GM has to say about their style. Have sections like correct atuo release, leg position, crest release etc.. and my all time fave: MESSING UP (since I do that a lot)!!!!!

I do miss the Conformation clinic too and I can't stand the new articles. Its seems that they are trying to attract weekend riders and keeping the serious ones in the dark.

I also get Hunter and Sporthorse, Chron Of Horse and the magazine by USA Eq.

It's sad when a great magazine like PH has to sell out.............

http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/

Policy of Truth
Mar. 4, 2002, 05:22 PM
Man, I can't believe I'm not alone on this! I picked up PH recently, and bought it w/o looking at it.

Got home, curled up on my couch with a cup of tea and began to read....oh, sooooo dissapointing! I want more of the stuff they did a few years ago. I still like the GM clinic, but otherwise, I'm not too thrilled.

Just glad to know I'm not the only one who has noticed a change.

SBT
Mar. 4, 2002, 06:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by findeight:
I will miss the GM column but not the every couple of months tirade of letters saying he is "wrong" and "mean" PH feels are more important to print then the old style PH which would use the space for another piece for the active competition rider. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


OH NO!!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif For some reason my stupid brain took this statement to mean that GM's column was being discontinued (in my earlier post I said something like, "it's not worth it, esp. now that Jumping Clinic will be gone...") /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I just edited it! OMG did I just start an awful rumor?!? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

~Sara /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice."

J. Turner
Mar. 4, 2002, 06:56 PM
They do take email letters. Write to Mandy Lorraine, the editor, if you have questions, comments, complaints. They've had the same editorial staff for over twenty years. I just looked at a 1990 issue. Mandy was the articles editor. She's now THE editor. The editor who does the majority of the proofreading and stylistic content is Deb Lyons. She's been there since at least 1985 -- from my 1985 Francesca Mazella article (one of my favorites).

I agree with the Cinderella story or working student articles which really aren't -- that's why I proposed and wrote the Catch 22 article. Even though they weren't the top of the top, Leigh is someone without a trust fund or a parent for a pro.

Even as a local-yokel growing up, I wanted to read articles of people at the top and good how-to articles. I wrote one about how to attach a lip strap which nearly drove me nuts. I thought it was detailed enough for the editor and she must have sent it back 10 times, down to the details of which fingers to hold the strap in and what to do with the other fingers. Not that it's bad -- but that's the mentality. I think a little style gets lost, but as Dennis Miller says, that's my opinion. I could be wrong.

For awhile Mandy did many of the pictures. When I was there I found Ed Camilli who is very talented and either owns or manages and sporting clothing store in West Chester County. He does wonderful work. He's a little more artsy and has a knack for catching the perfect light.

The magazine my dad works for, New York Magazine, is owned by Primedia. They're having financial difficulty since 9/11. The whole company and New York. They just sold Modern Bride. They used to do the art direction and production in house. Now Primedia has an office that does it, I think.

"Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
-- Shakespeare

"Oh please don't go -- we'll eat you up, we love you so."
-- Maurice Sendak

*** Member of the Rust Clique ***
*** Member of the Ebay Anonymous Clique ***
*** Member of the MKF (Michelle Kwan Forum)***

Jo
Mar. 4, 2002, 07:22 PM
The stack of PH's on your nightstand grows fast when all you do is read the GM column and flip through the rest.

I miss the Conformation (did I spell that the right way? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) Clinic and the column they used to do that showed you neat things like how to braid step-by-step with pictures... I can't remember any of the other ones but I LOVED that column. Especially since I got PH almost as soon as I started riding and learned a ton from those columns.

I won't be renewing either. I'll save a couple of trees by them not printing my un-read mag. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nirvana
Mar. 4, 2002, 07:36 PM
I agree with all of you. I let mine slide a while ago for these reasons, and I was surprised when my mom surprised me and renewed it. I got this month's a few days ago and was thrilled to see my hero, Anne K. on the cover. I raced for what I hoped would be a story about her, her horses, whatever...instead I found poorly-drawn diagrams and little more than a simple training exercise. Not that it's not a good exercise because it is, but I was really hoping for more. I flipped to Jumping Clinic and was also sorely disappointed. It seems like GM has gotten to the point of just typing the same comments over and over: "This rider's stirrups are too long and she is pinching with the knee, causing her lower leg to slip back. Her base of support is generally good. Her crest release is good, but she needs to press that hand into the crest for upper body support. The horse is in good flesh, and is wearing nice, well-fitting tack. They make a nice, well-turned out pair." Add in the "Walking up a Hill in 3 easy steps" and I was very disappointed indeed. PH needs to get some balance in their magazine- yes, there are lots of newbies out there who need info, but let's hope they can walk up a hill! Besides, who doesn't want to read about their GP heroes at least once in a while? It really is too bad....PH used to be a terrific magazine. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

_______________________________
* One must think when looking at a horse that it hears music inside its head
* check out my diary! http://carpediem4gp.diaryland.com
* PNW Clique: Fuzzy Horses, Frizzy Humans!

EventerAJ
Mar. 4, 2002, 08:17 PM
Yes, I love those articles too! They were called "Barn Saavy," and almost always were insightful and interesting, whatever level you rode. The braiding one was really good, and I also enjoyed the one written by GM's head groom, about winter horse care, and a really nummy recipe for bran mash. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh and I love looking back on the old "fashion" issues. Also, the new products articles were great. I know they're in the current mags. too, but they're hard to find. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

~AJ~
*proud aged-PH junkie* /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Just My Style
Mar. 4, 2002, 09:29 PM
I used to work for Practical Horseman. (In fact, I met my husband through the magazine- but that is a whole other story!) Anyway, I agree with J. Turner. Please email Mandy Lorraine and while you are at it, email Susan Harding and Pat Eskew. They will be able to forward your concerns to the "big wigs" at Primedia.

Unfortunately, PH is a casualty of corporate America. The PH that you all refer fondly to is the same Practical Horseman that was written by true horse enthusiasts who loved the horses, english riding and most importantly- the magazine.

I left just as the "takeover" started. Let me tell you, it was very tough. They immediately sent in the marketing gurus to redesign the publication. Unfortunately, they never asked the readers what they thought of the whole idea. Cowles had already forced the phase-out of saddle ways and bridle whys, conformation clinic, etc.

Anyway- off my soap box. Just email Mandy, Susan Harding and Pat Eskew. They are the crew who can make a difference. Good luck!

cinnabar
Mar. 5, 2002, 05:56 AM
I have to chime in on this one too. I had subscribed to PH since 1974 or so (when they still had "incorporating the Pennsylvania horse" as part of the title!). What a great magazine! I still have all my issues. But a couple of years ago, I also let my subscription slide. At the time, I read a comment from someone that it had become a "womens' magazine for women who like horses." As someone who isn't all that fond of change, it killed me to drop my subscription, but it wasn't worth it anymore. Really disappointing.

Glimmerglass
Mar. 5, 2002, 08:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cashmere:

Unfortunately, PH is a casualty of corporate America. The PH that you all refer fondly to is the same Practical Horseman that was written by true horse enthusiasts who loved the horses, english riding and most importantly- the magazine.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The same story can be said for the late Spur magazine as it too experienced as similar downward evolution when that was sold to a large southern media conglomerate.

It's a shame that Primedia owns so many equine titles as they are all relatively doomed with the rest of the company. Without question Primedia (formerly K-III) has been one of the worst acquisitions by once LBO darlings, KKR. Teen magazine was just killed in the last couple of days - and they largely paid eMap $515 million last summer for it and several minor titles.

The Modern Bride sale (the former crown jewels of the publishing firm) bought them some time but will it be enough.

Don't expect PH to do any format changes which cost money and with its "how-to" layout being the same as every other title the audience it has will continue to erode.

SaddleFitterVA
Mar. 5, 2002, 09:15 AM
I used to have subscriptions to Dressage Today, Practical Horseman, and Equus. Shortly after Primedia bought them all, I started to notice that I was reading the same magazine, same ads, with the same editorial staff. Almost the same articles.

The first one I let go was Dressage Today...I hardly read it anyway.

Now, I'm allowing both Practical Horseman and Equus to go. I'd have kept Equus over PH pre-Primedia, since I do keep my horses at home and it was very relevant for me. Although Kip G's articles were a big draw, but I've noticed that she doesn't have that many articles now. Anyone remember the Wachtel search and purchase saga? I actually mailed copies of those to a friend who was looking for a horse for a LONG time.

There are times when I feel like I'm living in an Ayn Rand novel with how standard the "this is corporate America" response is to drops in quality.

Since I'm on the "get out of debt" track right now, I'm stopping all but my Yoga magazine subscriptions end. If those become clones of each other, I'll let those end also...but right now, I'm still learning and those are relevant for me as I'm in Yoga teacher training.

FlightCheck
Mar. 5, 2002, 09:21 AM
that I really like
Horse
and
Horse and Rider

why can't we have mags like these in the US?

In HORSE, they have an interview each month with a pro rider/trainer, including their daily schedules, descriptions and goals for their current horses, and products they really USE and why.

Also, they "Try and Test" things (this month it is Knee Boots), tell you WHO tested them, and show photos of 4 or 5 and why they liked/didn't like them...

Boo to PH for dumbing down!

JustMe123
Mar. 5, 2002, 09:35 AM
I wasn't alive during the seventies or early eighties (;)) but one of my old trainers gave me her stash of PHs. They're wonderful... But I agree with you guys.

Just thought I'd pass this along. I have an actual hardback book that's a compilation of a ton of PH's most popular articles from the seventies and eighties. People like GM, Francesca Mazella (I LOVE that article too, especially the course diagrams that go along with it!), Bernie Traurig, Rodney Jenkins... It's so great. If anyone's interested I'll go find it and get the title tomorrow. I got it at Half Price Books... Too bad it's not still in print. :/

- It's Just Me -

Lonny'sMom
Mar. 5, 2002, 09:47 AM
FlightCheck, I like those two mag's also (Horse and Horse and Rider). Do you get them delivered to your house or do you get them from B&N or another book store? I wanted to subscribe, but was quoted around $100 per year /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif so I have been picking them up at B&N. They had a series of really good articles about ground pole work in one of them.

I wish PH would do some better training articles. There are already beginner typ mag's out there like Horse Illustrated, which should have the "how to ride up a hill" article instead of PH!

~Lara

http://hometown.aol.com/larajerry/myhomepage/profile.html

Sandy M
Mar. 5, 2002, 09:52 AM
Flightcheck - Yes, Horse and Horse & Rider (also Eventing and Horse & Hound!). I correspond with a breeder/horse trainer in England, and he sends me all of those magazines, and I send him Hunter & Sport Horse and the occasional Appaloosa Journal (since he is interested in raising a some WB/App crosses). Great magazines, and sooooo much better than the current PH. As for PH, if someone doesn't give me a free copy, I, too, just read the jumping clinic and toss it back on the rack. Someone should e-mail this entire discussion to PH.

Dementia 13
Mar. 5, 2002, 10:08 AM
Justme123 - oh yes please! I would love to know the title of the book. If I could find it in print, I'd be ever so happy.
Thanks.

"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

HelloAgain
Mar. 5, 2002, 10:17 AM
Dunno, (British) H&R has tons of "sponsored editorial" which freaks me out. Frankly they are always recommending a)Dengie brand feeds b)Puffa jackets c)Masta brand blankets, etc. Guess what!? Dengie and Puffa SPONSOR those articles.

The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

El Grande Stimpendo
Mar. 5, 2002, 10:23 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MargaretF:
Justme123 - oh yes please! I would love to know the title of the book. If I could find it in print, I'd be ever so happy.
Thanks.

Here's the info on the book:

Practical Horseman's Book of Riding, Training, and Showing Hunters and Jumpers

by M. A. Stoneridge, George Morris (actually they are the editors - there are dozens of authors)
Hardcover (April 1989)

Although it's not in print, there are still new copies offered for sale on Amazon.com. I recommend the book highly.

Ecce hippopotamus, sis!
Ridemus quomodo videatur nobis,
Tempore tamen miserabili
Miror quomodo videamur ei.
Pacem, pacem, hippopotame!
Videmur grati nobis vere,
Es dulcis sine dubio
Aliorum hipporum oculo.

Coreene
Mar. 5, 2002, 10:28 AM
Same as "advertorial," which in a US publication usually says "Special Advertising Supplement" at the top. It's a very cost-effective component of the overall marketing plan.

What drives me mad about British publications are the endless contests.

Horse & Hound has less than most, which is nice since that's the one I subscribe to.

But it's all about making $$ and these days it's harder and harder to find the ad dollar.

AAJumper
Mar. 5, 2002, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JustMe123:
I wasn't alive during the seventies or early eighties (;)) but one of my old trainers gave me her stash of PHs. They're wonderful... But I agree with you guys.

Just thought I'd pass this along. I have an actual hardback book that's a compilation of a ton of PH's most popular articles from the seventies and eighties. People like GM, Francesca Mazella (I LOVE that article too, especially the course diagrams that go along with it!), Bernie Traurig, Rodney Jenkins... It's so great. If anyone's interested I'll go find it and get the title tomorrow. I got it at Half Price Books... Too bad it's not still in print. :/

- It's Just Me -<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have that book too! It is wonderful.

visit www.victorianfarms.com (http://www.victorianfarms.com)

tle
Mar. 5, 2002, 11:40 AM
I don't have that one, but I do have a booklet type of thing that I guess was a series of XC article by Ralph Hill some years ago. It's pretty cool.

Unfortunately, during one of my moves a LOT of my old magazines were tossed (PH, Equus, HorsePlay, etc.). Would love to have some of those articles now that I'm more advanced in my riding.

If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

Survivor thoughts -- buh-bye yoga freak! (hey, it's the only way I can talk Survivor on this board without Erin shooting me!)

HelloAgain
Mar. 5, 2002, 12:38 PM
I am very aware of the importance of Advertorial content. Advertorial is manufactureer's advertising that reads like an article. Its actually not what I'm talking about. For example, in US, let's say SmartPak buys advertorial space and uses it to discuss the importance of measuring your supplements accuractely. Super. They submit the text, finished, to the magazine who publishes it, as is, as an advertisement.

In (B)H&R The entire "ask the Experts" section is "sponsored by NAF Natural Animal feeds, LTD." Their logo is on every single page in the section. When feeds are discussed NAF is usually suggested. NAF did not WRITE the text -- the magazine wrote it.

poltroon
Mar. 5, 2002, 12:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaddleFitterVA:
I used to have subscriptions to Dressage Today, Practical Horseman, and Equus. Shortly after Primedia bought them all, I started to notice that I was reading the same magazine, same ads, with the same editorial staff. Almost the same articles.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here here. And, you forgot to add that they all arrive on the same day.

There is a "known fact" among magaziners, it seems, that people don't remember articles for more than a few months. This thread, however, suggests that maybe it isn't so. I know I've gotten tired of reading the same retreaded articles.

My favorite from PH - back in the early-mid eighties, they did a "Build a Horse" feature with really fun drawings, essentially showing the "assembly" of a horse with "blueprints" and instructions for all the pieces. There were great little notes on quality defects, selecting the best parts, etc.

I still have all those magazines and in fact dug them up a couple of months ago to make xeroxes of that series.

findeight
Mar. 5, 2002, 02:56 PM
Whooa this has been a surprising topic for me.
I think it is clear the change at PH started well before 9/11 as it changed it's target reader well before that. Don't blame 9/11. many of these posters let their subscriptions go a year ago and more.
Used to be if you wanted basics you went to Horse Illustrated. After that for Western it was Horse and Rider (that I have known since it was an arab based So Cal publication owned by the Rich family) (no jokes about which rich family please). Later PH joined it as the national hunt seat publication. Anybody riding anything could pick up either magazine and get some good ground work and insight plus excercises specific to their discipline. Now they both concentrate on riding up hills and picking winter blankets.
Why must we always sink to the lowest common denominator?

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

ShowJumps
Mar. 5, 2002, 02:59 PM
One was about how an amateur dressage rider and her husband took a 1/4 acre lot in CA and made a beautiful barn, home and ring (which doubled as turn out). The end result was a wonderful layout and resembled a KY horse barn.

The other was a wife husband team who built an entire place (very nice) barn/ring/paddocks from scrap and recycled buildings. It may sound odd or dangerous but the end result was safe and perfect for the serious competitior who wants to keep the horses at home.

"When I die, I want to die like my grandmother who died peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her car." * Author Unknown

J. Turner
Mar. 5, 2002, 03:37 PM
Cashmere, would you email me? Your email is not in your profile.

"Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
-- Shakespeare

"Oh please don't go -- we'll eat you up, we love you so."
-- Maurice Sendak

*** Member of the Rust Clique ***
*** Member of the Ebay Anonymous Clique ***
*** Member of the MKF (Michelle Kwan Forum)***

Coreene
Mar. 5, 2002, 03:39 PM
Because it is paid editorial.

lawgrl
Mar. 5, 2002, 03:43 PM
I still get PH because I'm such a horse magazine freak (can you say 8 mag per month by subscription) but I agree "she ain't what she used to be". As far as I'm concerned Equus and Horse Illustrated cater just fine to the baby beginner.

My favorites are Horse and Horse and Rider (both from the UK). Costs me $150 per year (for both) but they have some great articles!

Ghazzu
Mar. 5, 2002, 03:47 PM
Poltroon!
Can I get copies?
I lost my set of those when I was in vet school--lent them to a non-horsey classmate freshman year when we were doing anatomy.
I'd be happy to reimburse you for copying expenses.

Small Change
Mar. 5, 2002, 04:21 PM
Here's the info you wanted on the Corinthian, although it's better known as Horse Sport now.

www.horse-canada.com (http://www.horse-canada.com)
email: info@horse-canada.com
toll free phone number: 1-800-505-7428

If you want an address or anything, let me know. Feel special; I dug out a copy just to get that information for you! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Steph /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lucassb
Mar. 5, 2002, 06:55 PM
I am at least a little relieved that I am not the only one who has let their PH subscription languish unrenewed.

I am another one of those who subscribed religiously for YEARS... my all time fav article was the feature on Lisa Jacquin and For The Moment - which detailed, for example, how they finally convinced "Fred" to wear a martingale, and how long it took to get there. So inspiring to think such a talented, winning grand prix rider had days where nothing went right at the barn also! Those were the days, I suppose.

And everyone who noted the demise of real, detailed "advanced" info - WALKING UP A HILL?????????? What are they thinking??

**********
"It is good to have an end to journey towards; but it is the journey that
matters, in the end."
-Ursula K. Le Guin

Reginapony
Mar. 5, 2002, 08:42 PM
Who wants to "walk up a hill?" We want to gallop down it and jump the stream at the bottom!

My husband would be happy if I let some of my magazines expire. I must be the "clutter queen" of Syosset.

*Endurance Rider Wannabee!*

Just My Style
Mar. 6, 2002, 07:03 AM
I tried to email you, but it came back rejected. My email is dellapenna@worldnet.att.net .

Bumpkin
Mar. 6, 2002, 07:11 AM
I agree the British Horse magazines tend to write about the products that sponsor them.
I grabbed one a few months ago and it featured an article about "The Best Turnout Rugs".
When I read it, the article did not once mention Rambo!!!
Voted the Best in England at the time.
The whole article pushed the name that was highly advertised in the magazine. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Rambo did have a small ad in comparison, and even the blurb about the "Best Rug for 2001" on their ad.

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Chaser
Mar. 6, 2002, 08:19 AM
Bumpkin...was it Your Horse? That magazine is just so predictable. Each autumn, there is a rug article, where they show pictures of rugs but don't give any real views on them. I expect they fear loss of advertising revenue. Then there's the worming article, how to look after horses in winter etc etc (almost identical from year to year)and far too much emphasis on "alternative" therapies and horse whispering. Occasionally I weaken and buy it because there's nothing else, but then regret it. It has recently combined with its sister mag Horse and Pony, and regular readers are complaining that it is now far too superficial. I hate to think what it's like now!! I would say it is only really suited to novices and most people would outgrow it in a couple of years.

Horse and Rider is a bit better. "Horse" is good because it seems more grounded in reality, with a variety of real people's experiences plus good articles on pro-riders. The product reviews are honest too. If something fell apart, then the tester says so. They sometimes re-visit products eg rugs to see how they've held up after another season's use.

The only mag I read regularly is Horse and Hound. As it is weekly it is up to date on news items plus has good vet articles, lots of horses for sale, show results, interesting articles on horse people from a wide variety of disciplines: it covers everything from endurance, racing, eventing, showing, dressage, breeding, driving...It doesn't do much on western disciplines but that is because there aren't that many people who ride western yet. Horse and Hound takes me days to read, wheras monthly mags last an hour if I'm lucky. Horse and Hound assumes its readers have some basic knowledge, whereas Your Horse patronises its readers.

I sometimes read magazines for other activities that friends are into. I think horse people are short changed compared eg to flying or sailing enthusiasts. They have well written, long, complex articles to digest. We seem to be cursed with picture guides which occupy space but many times provide little real information.

Bumpkin
Mar. 6, 2002, 08:29 AM
Chaser I cannot recall the name, as I hastily gave the magazine to a friend. LOL

Definately was not Horse & Hound, my all time favourite after The Chronicle of The Horse.
I use to have the Horse & Hound delivered with the Friday morning paper when I lived in England.
So much to read every week is right!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Have You Hugged Your Trainer Today?"

Chaser
Mar. 6, 2002, 08:33 AM
Ah Bumpkin times have changed...it now comes out on Thursday....that was a shock to the system! It is supposed to give people more time to arrange to see horses for sale over the weekend.

Is the Chronicle like Horse and Hound ?(yes...I am on this BB and have never seen an edition!)

/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

appyhunter
Mar. 6, 2002, 08:49 AM
Chaser- Coth and H&H cover many of the same subjects, but style is an ocean apart.

I was a religious PH reader/subscriber in the 80's, and there were a whole series of those how-to booklets, all worth looking up folks. As an ap owner, I also had the companion western magazine and as the two of them... became the same, I dropped first the western one, then PH, because.. it had nothing new for me. I really did not like paying twice for the same magazine.

Currently I am down to two horse rags, in part because spare time to read is at a premium /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif and in part because every time the mail delivery person changes, I don't get them. Really irritating, they lost half my COTH issues over a three month period last year. So ... I make it easy on the mail system, just my COTH subscription ( I am addicted....) and Equus, as I have been getting that from issue 1, and.. have them all. As to the Primedia flock.. I check them out at the newstand or occasional tack store visit, and pickup the occasional issue with an interesting article. I was buying 'the horse' regularly, but it has disappeared from the local newstands. Not enough human skin showing, I guess...

jr
Mar. 6, 2002, 08:49 AM
A note on Hunter and Sport Horse

If there are issues, topics, etc. that your are interested in and would like to see articles on, let the editor know. They are very responsive and frequently do stories, add columns etc. due to reader interest.

cbv
Mar. 6, 2002, 10:56 AM
1) If the demographics have changed and the PH is responding to those...there is some good news in that. It means more folks are participating and our ranks are growing...something that many folks on this board seem to want to see.

2) This does not address the problem of alternatives for more experienced folks and/or those that show regularly (which are not necessarily one and the same). For those that do show, doesn't AHSA have a mag (Horse Shows?) I know I have seen complaints about it before, but perhaps you could encourage that publication to fill the gap you see since PH changed its format and content. Then you don't have to worry about the demographics issue...and you get an xtra boost for your membership as well as possibly a hook to get more members

4) the other approach with PH is to enlist the novices/current comebacks and make the argument that though you see the need for content aimed at less experienced horse enthusiasts, that the current style talks down to all no matter their horse savvy....and that the novices also would be interested and benefit from articles that are both compelling and perhaps cover subjects more advanced and in depth.

4) Lastly, since PH changed its format I have been less than thrilled as well. However I did not see it as being caused by a change of content as much as being influenced by the Web. I see it in many mags, that they start to resemble web pages with banners and boxes and short articles that lack depth. I thought they adopted it to look hip and techno, which I think it is a mistake. I want both newspapers and magazines to give me the long version of the bullets I can get on the web.

DMK
Mar. 6, 2002, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cbv:

However I did not see it as being caused by a change of content as much as being influenced by the Web. I see it in many mags, that they start to resemble web pages with banners and boxes and short articles that lack depth. I thought they adopted it to look hip and techno, which I think it is a mistake. I want both newspapers and magazines to give me the long version of the bullets I can get on the web.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not the webeffect, that is the dreaded "USA Today" effect! (our motto, we ain't the Noo Yorc Timz!)


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

cbv
Mar. 6, 2002, 11:33 AM
" That's not the webeffect, that is the dreaded "USA Today" effect! (our motto, we ain't the Noo Yorc Timz!)"

I am just not up on my media syndromes! But now I see the symptoms...excellent diagnostics as usual Dr. DMK!

DMK
Mar. 6, 2002, 11:46 AM
/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But really, I have to give all the credit to Doonesbury's Garry Trudeau - he started poking fun at the USA Today format over a decade ago!


"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *

keke414
Mar. 6, 2002, 05:00 PM
I remember PH from 10 - 20 years ago. It has gotten more general-interest and somewhat dumbed down.

poltroon
Mar. 6, 2002, 05:19 PM
Equestrian, the USA Eq rag, has actually had some good stuff in it lately. It's not really a full-service mag, but I'd say at this point it's about as valuable to me as PH.

My favorite, though, is the former USCTA News that I think is now called Eventing so that we can confuse it with the one from across the pond. Really great stuff, like the old PH but eventing-specific. Doesn't help you H/J folk, though.

BTW, Equus wasn't really a beginner publication originally either. They were general interest horse-health stuff, often very veterinary, much like what The Horse is now.

Being Canadian
Mar. 6, 2002, 08:14 PM
Ive found that over the years PH has crammed in more and more advertisements and that really gets to me!

(Although i do LOVE looking at pictures of wicked horses soaring over massive jumps:))

msjan
Mar. 6, 2002, 08:14 PM
For anyone interested, you mentioned the PH hardcover book on training/riding articles. They also published one, same format, on horse care...different trainers' opinions on everything from wrapping legs to longeing. I think it even has the braiding article in it. Title is "Practical Horseman's Book of Horsekeeping."
A very useful book.

Coreene
Mar. 7, 2002, 09:18 AM
Their is usually a split between ad % and editorial %. PH's looks like it's got more ads because there is proportionally less editorial vs ads than before.

hitchinmygetalong
Mar. 7, 2002, 10:17 AM
to PH, I take it somewhat as an insult when you all say it has "dumbed down." I have been around horses since 1968 and am still finding there is something new to learn.

God help me if I ever stop learning, it will mean I have started dying.

If you find it is beneath your level, don't subscribe. Just don't insult those of us that enjoy it.

Thank you.

Ninja
Mar. 7, 2002, 10:22 AM
Sorry, but this Canadian magazine stinks! It's coverage is so far behind and I have never read that magazine and got something out of it.

They list the placings in a chart with the faults and j/o times...fine, but then the earth breaking story beside it would read something like this: Ian Millar wins the class with the fastest round ahead of Beth Underhill who was fractionally slower. Mac Cone riding Elute was third with a time of 45.1 seconds followed by Jay Hayes with 4 faults. WELL DUH!!!!

I really like the Chronicle, mainly because the horse show coverage explains far more to the reader than just the list of results placed in sentence form! It gives insight as to how the champion of the division found his/her horse, who they train with, the breeding of the horse, a bit of the horses history and problems they overcame to get to where they are, and some personality traits of the horse. Also, I always enjoy reading the "Between Rounds" and overall I think it's a great magazines...even though I get it several weeks LATE!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Actually I just calculated how many magazines I get each month and its adds up to 22!!! Yikes! Everything from Blood horse to Horse and Hound to Standardbred magazines.....that's A LOT of reading! /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dementia 13
Mar. 7, 2002, 10:23 AM
Sorry but I really do think it is dumbed down! There is a marked difference in the quality of the articles from the early days and now. No reason you shouldn't continue to enjoy it though - we are just expressing our opinions.

Personally, back in the old days I couldn't stand Kip Goldreyers stupid articles about that damn horse of hers. She sounded like a fruitcake to me but hey, tons of people really enjoyed those articles. I am not sure what my point is here......

"What lamp has destiny to guide her little children stumbling in the dark?"

Janeway
Mar. 7, 2002, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong:
If you find it is beneath your level, don't subscribe. Just don't insult those of us that enjoy it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody is insulting you Hitchinmygetalong. Glad you are enjoying your new subsription.

Which I think is the point here. The magazine is new to you and therefore looks great, however to those of us who have been subscribing for years (I must be on 15 years now!!) we have noticed a definite downturn in the types of articles they are producing. Perhaps if you had an opportunity to flip through some of the issues from the 80's and then compared to now, you too would see the difference.

Honestly, it has changed.

Badger
Mar. 7, 2002, 11:18 AM
I agree with others that PH ain't what is used to be. I still am happy to find it in the mail, but inevitable now when I sit down to enjoy reading it, I found it's good for 10 minutes of browsing max and that's it. Really miss the old days. Will probably let my prescription expire and I have decades worth of back issues because I used to be able to use them as a reference library. Now, there isn't much that I want to read a first time, much less save to read later. And I DO remember what I've read.

Anyone remember an article (8-10 years ago or so) about someone who trained her horses to pee in a certain spot in her paddock and then installed a septic tank. So the paddock stays pristine other than scooping manure. Saves on bedding and work and mess? I need to find that article for a friend who has a horse that it would be a PERFECT system for. Unless someone happens to know the issue, I'll be digging through years' worth of the old issues trying to find it, and it's going to make me sick to be reminded of what the mag used to be compared to what it's become.

Equus has changed too, but not as drastic a difference. I thought they used to be a good complement: Eqqus took a more scientific/veterinary/horse care approach, and PH took care of English training issues. I subscribed for a while to the Horse and may go back to that one.

I really miss the old Mike Plumb's Horse Journal when it was discipline specific. Now it's a hodge/podge of English/Western and the articles are not as thorough. I'll still keep up that subscription, but it is defintiely a watered down version of it's former self.

Thank God the Chronicle has it's priorities straight.

Weatherford
Mar. 7, 2002, 11:28 AM
I am amazed - thought I was the only one who noticed!

I've always disagreed with the idea that if your target market is the beginner (at anything), then they certainly won't be interested in anything more advanced.

DUH - how do they expect people to LEARN and GET BETTER??? Like teaching kids to read - or telling a kid that book is for an eighth grader, and you are only in sixth, therefore you can't possible read it! Total absolute BS!! IMHO!

Horse & Hound - which I read regularly - continues to amaze me! It is a weekly with articles on all areas of the horse world, and plently of depth - the latest series by Mark Todd were fantastic (and I no longer event!)

PH is a lost cause...

PS I LOVE the contests in the Brit pubs - I AM GOING TO WIN MY NEXT HORSE TRAILER THAT WAY!!!

jr
Mar. 7, 2002, 11:36 AM
I think you can track PH to the day when they were bought by the large publishing company (I forget the name). Things seemed to go downhill from there, as they obviously started going after a broader demographic.

Heres to the still focused pubs (that I can afford to subscribe to) - COTH and Hunter and Sport Horse!

Badger
Mar. 7, 2002, 11:43 AM
Well, I just wandered over the Horse and Hound website and am very impressed with the articles I found there:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/

I'll be in England in a week, so I'll pick up a copy to read and will probably subscribe. Hmm, wonder if I can get $$$ back if I cancel my current PH? You can subscribe to H&H on-line, and for US it's $100/year and $180 for two years, and it''s weekly.

Seven
Mar. 7, 2002, 12:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
I am amazed - thought I was the only one who noticed!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too!

I've noticed over the last few years that the only things I read are the Jumping Clinic and the Thinking Horseman (I just love Kip's sense of humor)! But even the Jumping Clinic, much as I love it, I must say I'm getting awfully tired of reading "this rider is jumping ahead because her base of support has slipped back. Her stirrups are too long and she'd shorten them a hole or a half a hole and work over some low gymnastics, she'd improve. Her crest release is ineffective; she should press her hands into the horses crest rather then allowing them to hover above...." SHEESH!! SHORTEN your frickin' stirrups, WAIT for your horse, and keep you hands ON the neck!! CRIMINEY!! The poor man's only been preaching the same D*MN thing for two generations!! (whew, that felt good....)

Seriously though, I've been begining to wonder if the those two columns were worth my subscrition price. I really do miss the Conformation Clinic too (though I prefered who ever did it before Champ Hough...can't remember the name).

=^+^=

~The problem with the gene pool is its lack of lifeguards.~

Janet
Mar. 7, 2002, 12:37 PM
used to be Gene Cunningham

Magnolia
Mar. 7, 2002, 12:45 PM
I'm letting my sub. run out to PH.
That BAR article STINKS!!! I teach a few BAR's and by the end of their 1st lesson, they can walk down a hill and stop their horses correctly. I can't imagine anyone learning from that unless you are a rank beginner without a riding instructor!
Anyhow, I would think beginners would want to read a bit ahead of what they are doing and get inspired. It isn't inspiring to read about learning to walk. And, the horse care could be more advanced as well. If you need to learn basics of horsecare, buy a good book.... don't wait until PH has an article on colic to learn the signs....
Wow, that was witchy!

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

Coreene
Mar. 7, 2002, 02:25 PM
You'll love Horse & Hound. I get it and just devour it every week.

findeight
Mar. 7, 2002, 03:09 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong:
to PH, I take it somewhat as an insult when you all say it has "dumbed down." I have been around horses since 1968 and am still finding there is something new to learn.

God help me if I ever stop learning, it will mean I have started dying.

If you find it is beneath your level, don't subscribe. Just don't insult those of us that enjoy it.
__________________________________________________


Well Hitch you are absolutly right about the quest for knowledge. If you are getting any from PH then PLEASE still take it and enjoy a few hours on the couch with it. I wish we could show you what it used to be like though.

Things beginners could set as future goals.

Things to make intermediate riders think.

Things to make advanced riders rethink their theories.

Interviews with the best and brightest that challenged all to go to the barn and try.

Now it is all aimed not only at novices but it talks down and patronizes.
Where are the goals for the next level up?????

The comparison to Usless A Today also known as McPaper-the paper for those who find the network evening news too complex-is fascinating. Now I read it daily for an overview, I am neither economist nor mideast expert, but for the things I am expert in I want MORE.

All these magazines are for enthusiasts but are written like USA Today, a brief and (sometimes) accurate overview. But where do we go for details now that all these Mags are at the Mcmagazine level???????

Some ideas for you, especially Hitch if you are up to it. George Morris' book, the first one. I will shortly start Bert DeNemethy's as my trainer has. Try these if you are up to the challange. I reread GM's yearly and every year I "get" more of it. Looking forward to the same from the DeNemethy one.
But where are the newbies going to find challenge????????

A good reputation taking thousands of years to build can be destroyed in a few hours.

Duramax
May. 6, 2002, 12:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:

There is a "known fact" among magaziners, it seems, that people don't remember articles for more than a few months. This thread, however, suggests that maybe it isn't so. I know I've gotten tired of reading the same retreaded articles.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can still remember specific articles from PH from when I first started riding as a child. I can even remember the cover pictures, and random factoids from some of the interviews with top riders!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Why can't my horse just be normal?? /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Anne
May. 6, 2002, 12:50 PM
Me too, Duramax. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif How else do you think I can play the trivia game?

Hopeful Hunter
May. 6, 2002, 02:06 PM
IF you didn't catch the financial news, Primedia, publisher of PH plus other titles, reported some nasty 1Q losses. Sad to think how this might further affect the magazine.

maudeflanders
May. 6, 2002, 10:11 PM
if any of you have received completely destroyed PHs? The past few issues have reached my box totally SHREDDED. Once I had a torn-up cover, and I opened it up and thought, "gosh, this must be a college riding issue," but really, the inside of a college alumni magazine had been inserted into the cover of my PH! So... no content (although I guess I didn't miss much). All of my other magazines get here in fine shape, I wonder where they get torn up? Anyone else have the same problem?

gray17htb
May. 7, 2002, 05:27 AM
The last few issues of my PH have been shredded too.

InWhyCee
May. 7, 2002, 10:20 AM
There's NOTHING wrong with being a beginner, a first-timer, or a 20-year-sabbatical-taker ... what IS wrong is the oversimplified, unchallenging, lowest-common-denominator tone that creeps through too many PH articles. The BAR articles and photos, especially, can be dreadful... granted, the first two first books on riding I ever read were by Steinkraus and Podhajasky -- but I am STILL reading and learning from them, which is more than I can say for PH.

That said: Should I spring for the U.K. "Horse and Rider"? Or "Your Horse"?

"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."

brilyntrip
May. 7, 2002, 11:48 AM
We had a great magazine that a local horse show mom started >It was great advertising was inexpensive EVERYone wanted to read the latest articles in it.Then .... it was purchased by a company from around westchester co.In one year everything went to @&@& now it has polo articles in it etc etc .No one on LI reads it or cares ...
So why do these companies have to destroy the stuff we all enjoy once they purchase the magazine?

RZ
May. 7, 2002, 04:25 PM
I agree pretty much about PH. This year I didn't renew my subscription, after 10 years of getting it. But as much as the content, I also stopped because I barely have the time to read it anymore. It would sit and I would never get to it.

One magazine (newsletter actually) that I ALWAYS read, and will never cancel (unless it goes downhill) is Horse Journal. Even after Michael Plumb (the original publisher) stopped editing it, it remained great. It does have some western focused stuff in it now, which I skip over, but the feed/tack/supplies articles are excellent, and have saved me lots of money and trial & error. In fact one of the BEST supplements I use now was recommended by Horse Journal in a big article about devil's claw and arthritis/joint pain. (In case you're interesed, it's called Devil's Claw Plus, and my horse has improved tremendously since I've started using it!)

JMHO /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif