PDA

View Full Version : Legality of ownership



lconroe
May. 25, 2012, 10:32 PM
I had a colt given to me for pay for barn work. Now the barn owner put it in the barn, locked it up, and wouldn't allow me to have it. She sent it away on a trailer. She told the police she gave it to a friend. I have the registration papers in my name , vet boll receipts, farrier receipts. The cops tell me it not enough. I filed suit at magistrate, but it will not get my horse back only money. I want my horse back. Does any know my rights?

Westlake Farm
May. 25, 2012, 10:35 PM
Oh man. Did you sign a contract/bill of sale? If you don't have anything on paper with both signatures that explains everything, you are most likely out of luck. I'm sorry this has happened to you!

lconroe
May. 25, 2012, 10:45 PM
No. Nothing signed,just verbal with a 73 year old lady who was like my Mom.. I didn't see a need.

paulaedwina
May. 25, 2012, 10:53 PM
Mistake number one. Sorry you had to learn that the hard way. I'd still try to speak to an attorney.

Please keep us updated.

Paula

lconroe
May. 25, 2012, 10:55 PM
The registrations papers with KMSHA with a dna sample don't mean anything??

Long Spot
May. 25, 2012, 11:07 PM
Are you in the US, Iconroe? The word "magistrate" made me think you aren't. If that's the case, your laws might be different than ours. But here, no, registration papers or DNA don't mean a thing without a bill of sale or a written contract.

I'm so sorry.

lconroe
May. 26, 2012, 09:10 AM
Yes in US penna.

IronwoodFarm
May. 26, 2012, 10:13 AM
You are best off going to the magistrate and seeking money. Perhaps the horse will be returned rather than paying you a sum of money.

As everyone said, ALWAYS get a bill of sale that is signed by both the buyer and seller. Never, ever take anyone's word as a substitute. I don't care if it is your mother, sister, best friend, employer.....when conducting business, do it in a business like manner.

I just sold a trailer this morning. I signed the title and the buyer and I both signed bills of sale, one of her and one for me. The bill of sale is not required, but I always provide one.

HoofaSchmigetty
May. 26, 2012, 10:20 AM
Next time...even if it IS your MOM....GET IT IN WRIGHTING!!!

HillsideStable
May. 26, 2012, 10:31 AM
What is her reasoning behind taking it back? Was she unhappy about the work that you did? How long was the colt in your possession before she took it back? Did she sign the registration papers over to you? If she did I would think that would prove she intended on transferring ownership over to you.

Bluey
May. 26, 2012, 10:54 AM
Your name in the registration papers only means at some time you may have owned the horse.
There are many horses out there no one transferred the papers, but still own the horse.
A registration certificate is not legal proof of ownership.

You needed a bill of sale, even on a gift horse, to be able to prove a horse is yours.
If you don't have one and want the horse, contact an attorney where you are, the laws about such are different in each state.

Hope you get your horse back and learn a very important lesson, to always have your paperwork in order, including a properly signed bill of sale, if just for $1 or whatever the law where you are requires.

ESG
May. 26, 2012, 10:55 AM
Is it troll season already? :p

Jealoushe
May. 26, 2012, 11:42 AM
Not sure a yearling is the best choice for a 5 year old.

It sounds like she was unhappy with your work. Did you comply to your agreement of work completely?

Snowflake
May. 26, 2012, 11:50 AM
Yep, sounds like the old lady saw an inexperienced, easy target to be able to get free labor. The horse world is full of shady people. With time and experience, you should be able to weed them out.

I had a horse stolen once and it was a nasty, ugly fight to get her back. I needed help from friends. Mine became a legal investigation and the DA was involved because the person that had her - a notoriously shady horse dealer - had lots of marks against him. With enough pressure, we got him to relent and I got my horse back. He was *this close* to being hit with multiple fines for transporting horses without a DOT license and also the state ag dept was going to sanction him for transporting horses without coggins.

Sadly, his MO is that he preys on novice horse people. People who aren't in the "know" enough to be able to understand that he's a snake. He's still in business but, man, I tried my best to run him out of this area.

Westlake Farm
May. 26, 2012, 02:21 PM
I filed for the registration papers he is only 1 year old. Her name is on nothing only that she has the mother of him. She has no reasoning only says I renigged on my deal of barn chores. If that was the case then she should have just told us to put him somewhere not on her farm, which I would have. And I still went to do chores twice a day and cleaned at least 3 to 6 pens per day among other things. I have had the colt for 7 months and did all the training on him. He did not like her and tried to kick her when she entered his pen, thats why she didn't want him. The registration cost me $115 and no she never paid for any vets or the papers or his feed for the last month. She supplied and outdoor corral and hay.@ESG she is much worse than a troll, she has really hurt myself my 5 year old grandson and husband. Blaze was to be a 4-H project for my grandson and he can't understand why she did this. I don't myself..

I'm sorry, but there is nothing you can do without a bill of sale or contract. Next time, have something in writing!

Kementari
May. 26, 2012, 04:42 PM
I have no idea what the registry in question requires, but I know when I did the original registration on my girl, because I was not the breeder, I had to send in a form that was a transfer of ownership for an unregistered foal. That form indicated that she was being sold to me by her breeder on x date, etc. If your registry required such a thing, a copy of that may help your case, as it would clearly indicate the owner/breeder turned over ownership to you.

goeslikestink
May. 26, 2012, 06:59 PM
I have no idea what the registry in question requires, but I know when I did the original registration on my girl, because I was not the breeder, I had to send in a form that was a transfer of ownership for an unregistered foal. That form indicated that she was being sold to me by her breeder on x date, etc. If your registry required such a thing, a copy of that may help your case, as it would clearly indicate the owner/breeder turned over ownership to you.

i presume you have over there simular to us i uk as trading standards

here we have our horses past ported and micro chipped as proof of owner
and any medical issues /jabs etc go on the passport so that one can track his movements if at shows or sold the new owner has to re apply for the by sending in his passport under the old owners addy details etc

you said you worked for him- at any time by pay as this is a taxable earning if in a wage did she/he give you a wage packet with any deductions for leiu of payment for the colt - this is evidence if she did

you should go to the police - even though they cant do anything you can ask for a hold of the horse until proof of ownership
the horse will then be en pounded noramally at a rescue center until both parties have been resloves of who owns what - vets fees and insurance paid for the for the time you had him also helps as this proves he was in your care

but - you said this

I filed for the registration papers he is only 1 year old. Her name is on nothing only that she has the mother of him.

did you check its actual his mother

She has no reasoning only says I renigged on my deal of barn chores.
explain yourself - mate if you looked afetr him whilse doing chores then hats just it, unless deductions in wage packet for him- cheap labour gives you a horse to train and handle ready to be sold

If that was the case then she should have just told us to put him somewhere not on her farm, which I would have.

she wouldnt do that - as its money to feed a any horse and trian it and your there doing her work as chores and handling him for her as in chores unless deduction in wage packet for lieu of him for feed vets, stable , or in your case coral etc

And I still went to do chores twice a day and cleaned at least 3 to 6 pens per day among other things. I have had the colt for 7 months and did all the training on him.
so now you know what not to do------- get a job get a wage do do things for people for nothing or on a promise of xyz your an adult be wiser

He did not like her and tried to kick her when she entered his pen

so you say - but she went into to get him to be sold so at some point she must of shown him of to someone as a sale

, thats why she didn't want him


be grown up - he was always for sale thats why she bred him


. The registration cost me $115 and no she never paid for any vets or the papers or his feed for the last month.

then use this as proof to trading standards or small claims court tel plod and file a claim as this is you owning the horse

lets be clear ------- owner is the person who owns him if its lease then you would be the keeper of said horse as you have kept him in food vets and trained him
if she told you he was for sale then and shes not paid you
properly then send her a bill
for your time your cost, and the amount of triaining

hence why this sounds more like a lease as you have been told you can only have money but

like i said take it to police and ask them for small claims court or trading standards
She supplied and outdoor corral and hay.

see part owner ship she paid for his hay and stabling - again this is leasing not owning


@ESG she is much worse than a troll, she has really hurt myself my 5 year old grandson and husband. Blaze was to be a 4-H project for my grandson and he can't understand why she did this. I don't myself..


dont be silly a colt or horse that young with a 5yrs old kid of a 4h pony club
look at something smaller like 12.2hs and about 10 whos been there and done it

and dont work for nothing again learn your lesson and dont lease but own the horse

asparwhite
May. 27, 2012, 03:01 AM
I feel for you Iconroe. I see this sort of thing happen all of the damned time and I find it despicable. People ripping each other off for a few bucks. It is really sad how business warps people into these wretched jack asses who will lie to and cheat people.

The worst ones are the guys who try to prey on people who have poor mathematical skills. The saddest part is how many people fall for this type of scam.

lconroe
May. 27, 2012, 09:48 AM
You sound like your related to her!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goes like stink!! I don't need your advice thanks

alibi_18
May. 27, 2012, 10:16 AM
You sound like your related to her!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goes like stink!! I don't need your advice thanks

Actually, I think GLS may have hit a nail on something.

And NO, a colt is not a good match for a 5yrs old 4-H club project.

And really, if this is a colt, there is really no big need of "training" but some usual handling and nipping in the bud bad behaviors.

Were you working off your board and hay for the past 7months?

ESG
May. 27, 2012, 01:07 PM
alibi, I think you and gls are right. Which is why I called the OP a troll to begin with (although she seems to have missed that bit :winkgrin:). Too much "look at what a victim I am", coupled with "I don't have proof of anything", and topped off by "I don't need your advice" when she's disagreed with,.........yep, troll. Maybe not an intentional one, but one nonetheless. :cool:

OP, I don't feel sorry for you at all.

Robin@DHH
May. 27, 2012, 03:26 PM
A possible way to approach this would be through your
employment. If you do have some way to document that
you worked for the stable owner, she owes you for the
work. Most State Department of Labor sections take a
very dim view of workers who have not been paid and
will take the employee's side. Employer would not only
owe wages but also their share of FICA and other payroll
deductions. An aside, you would owe income taxes on
the wages, whether paid in dollars or in product such as
the colt.

If you made it clear to the stable owner that you are going
to the State on this if she doesn't come up with the colt or
some other appropriate compensation and that the stable
owner will not only owe the payment but also various
fees and fines, she might find that she does have to give
you payment after all.

You will need to have some way to clearly show that you
were "employed" by the stable owner. You might see if
there is some kind of legal advice service in your area
where you can talk to a lawyer for half an hour for a
modest sum (many communities have such services
offered) and get a bit of advice on what you could use
to document your employment and how you might
approach the stable owner or go to the Dept of Labor if
the stable owner won't come through. It might not get
that colt back, but you may get some satisfaction.

LauraKY
May. 27, 2012, 03:36 PM
My troll radar is going off too. And snowflake, boy you really jump to conclusions don't you?

goeslikestink
May. 27, 2012, 06:56 PM
You sound like your related to her!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goes like stink!! I don't need your advice thanks

hardly mate but been in the horse world a lot longer than you and dont go round with eyes shut and certainly dont get mugged of as in used

Gnalli
May. 27, 2012, 07:13 PM
We had basically the same thing happen, and we learned the hard way that a man's word is not always his bond. Not a thing you can do about it now. If the horse was in your possession, then it would be a different story since you have papers in your name, but possession is 9/10's of the law.

I am so sorry for you. I know the pain that an unscrupulous person can cause. The heck of it is in our case is that 1. we aren't newbies, 2. this was supposedly a family friend, 3. apparently it was planned all along. I was always taught to never ask for a reciept for a gift, and applied this to the gift of this horse to my daughter, so didn't request a bill of sale. Never again.


I would, in your case, sue for the registration fees, etc, not because of any money you may recover, but for the principle of the matter.

lconroe
May. 27, 2012, 09:41 PM
All I did was work. Int he morning went at 6;30 am till 10 or 11. Fixed fence for 6 hours, Brought all the hay to the barn from the garage were it was stored on my vehicle. 8 bales every other day. Whenever farrier came I helped, holding and fetching horses, Then in the evening at 6 or so went back and watered and fed hay again and cleaned stall of mares who were close to foaling, took another yearling out for walks. I would be there at least an hour. As far as training on mine, he hadn't ever been out of the barn when I got him. He would rear and carry on bad. He wouldn't let you do anything with him. I had him mannered with leading and I could sit on the ground by him without any worry. My Grandson (5) would go by him and Blaze would put his head down for him to hug him. So as far as everyone saying its not a good choice for him with his age I don't agree. You didn't know my horse and I feel he was different than others.I offered to take him out of there and she said NO... I felt I was being taken advantage of as she would want more and more done all the time. And nobody hit a nail , all I asked was what proves Horse Ownership and nobody has answered me yet..

Jealoushe
May. 27, 2012, 09:54 PM
So.... Horse is a yearling. You've had him 7 months? When you got him he would have been anywhere from 3 months to about 6 months then?? He was rearing and carrying on?? He was a baby... Not sure what you are expecting really.

Depending on what your actual agreement was, hours and days to work, for what in return... Whether there was written agreement to those terms... We can't really comment on whether you own this horse or not.

Alagirl
May. 27, 2012, 10:03 PM
And nobody hit a nail , all I asked was what proves Horse Ownership and nobody has answered me yet..

hmmm, I think you got your answer, several times over: Seems like you are out of luck since you don't have a bill of sale.


That was said several times.
It is not the answer you were looking for?
Tough luck. You could always ask somebody in the legal field their professional opinion. The initial consult might actually be free.
You know the old saying: Possession is 9/10th of the law....

maybe the lady thought you were being ungrateful. You certainly do have some tude going here.....

Old Mac Donald
May. 28, 2012, 12:22 AM
Geez, remember that thread about the horse who had his own stalker, and she offered the owner $5000 for him AFTER being told "do not feed him!"?

Sounds like this is the "other side's version" of a similar tale.

Complete with magickal pooping butterfly farting yearlings.

Long Spot
May. 28, 2012, 12:28 AM
You didn't know my horse and I feel he was different than others.

Black Stallion Syndrome.

They always are different, honey.

You've gotten your answer quite a few times. A written contract or a bill of sale proves ownership. Plain and simple. I'd suggest chalking it up to a learning experience, if you are capable of taking anything away from this and make it helpful for the future. That involves some accountability on your part of this mess that led to where you are. I sense that's not going to happen.

LauraKY
May. 28, 2012, 09:32 AM
I sense a trainwreck in progress...Troll/trainwreck radar on full alert.

sketcher
May. 28, 2012, 09:59 AM
Boy some of you people are rough! I'm not sure why some of you assume OP is a troll. Not the smartest moves on OP's part but it is sure not a stretch to say that there are horse people who will take terrible advantage of a young, horse crazy person.

Some of these people come around to convincing themselves that they are doing said young person a favor by allowing them the privilege of doing all their chores. Lived it, have the t-shirt....

LauraKY
May. 28, 2012, 10:03 AM
Sketcher, this is why (and BTW, she says she's a grandmother, not a young horse crazy person):

alibi, I think you and gls are right. Which is why I called the OP a troll to begin with (although she seems to have missed that bit :winkgrin:). Too much "look at what a victim I am", coupled with "I don't have proof of anything", and topped off by "I don't need your advice" when she's disagreed with,.........yep, troll. Maybe not an intentional one, but one nonetheless. :cool:

OP, I don't feel sorry for you at all.

Plus continually stating that her question hasn't been answered. It has. You. Need. A. Bill. Of. Sale.

Too many things don't add up. A 7 month old colt for a 5-6 year old's 4-H project? From what I understand the Horse Training Project is intended for an ADVANCED (impossible for a 6 year old) rider to train a horse.

Six year old training a colt? Bull hockey.

Ghazzu
May. 28, 2012, 10:16 AM
all I asked was what proves Horse Ownership and nobody has answered me yet..

You *have* gotten an answer on proof of ownership--a signed contract or bill of sale.

You just don't like that answer.

Sorry you got taken advantage of WRT your labor, but I do think you are *way* off the mark in the fantasy that a yound colt is a suitable 4H project because he's "not like other horses".

Jealoushe
May. 28, 2012, 10:25 AM
Thank you all for your encouraging words!!! It doesn't stop the crying and the hurt I Have had for 2 weeks now. I miss Blaze so bad. How a 72 year old woman could do this is just unbelieveable to me..... HEARTLESS AND COLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We still did not get the details on whether you fulfilled your agreement with the horse owner either...something is not adding up here..

ESG
May. 28, 2012, 10:27 AM
Thank you all for your encouraging words!!! It doesn't stop the crying and the hurt I Have had for 2 weeks now. I miss Blaze so bad. How a 72 year old woman could do this is just unbelieveable to me..... HEARTLESS AND COLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's official - we have entered the troll Twilight Zone. If you listen hard enough, you can hear the music,....................:uhoh:

Jealoushe
May. 28, 2012, 10:37 AM
There was no agreement REMEMBER???? No signed contract. forget about it I will never see him again.. I live only one quarter mile from her so I WILL GET EVEN!!!! And when she goes to court in June with us she will wish she never did this to ME! END OF DISCUSSION!

Revenge...that always goes over well...especially when you have posted you are going to do so on the internet.

Agreement, I meant was; even verbally.... how may hours/days you were to work...and the monetary value it would give for the horse...and how long you had to work it off etc.

I guess you don't know those details either...did you imagine that you had this agreement?

LauraKY
May. 28, 2012, 10:37 AM
There was no agreement REMEMBER???? No signed contract. forget about it I will never see him again.. I live only one quarter mile from her so I WILL GET EVEN!!!! And when she goes to court in June with us she will wish she never did this to ME! END OF DISCUSSION!

You know, things you say on the internet can be used against you in a court of law. Quoted for posterity.

Getting even, that's a good example for your grandson, BTW.

lconroe
May. 28, 2012, 11:01 AM
I DON"T CARE ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Alagirl
May. 28, 2012, 11:02 AM
I DON"T CARE ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Sounds like Phil Collins.

dacasodivine
May. 28, 2012, 11:12 AM
All I did was work. Int he morning went at 6;30 am till 10 or 11. Fixed fence for 6 hours, Brought all the hay to the barn from the garage were it was stored on my vehicle. 8 bales every other day. Whenever farrier came I helped, holding and fetching horses, Then in the evening at 6 or so went back and watered and fed hay again and cleaned stall of mares who were close to foaling, took another yearling out for walks. I would be there at least an hour. As far as training on mine, he hadn't ever been out of the barn when I got him. He would rear and carry on bad. He wouldn't let you do anything with him. I had him mannered with leading and I could sit on the ground by him without any worry. My Grandson (5) would go by him and Blaze would put his head down for him to hug him. So as far as everyone saying its not a good choice for him with his age I don't agree. You didn't know my horse and I feel he was different than others.I offered to take him out of there and she said NO... I felt I was being taken advantage of as she would want more and more done all the time. And nobody hit a nail , all I asked was what proves Horse Ownership and nobody has answered me yet..

Did she pay you any wages? If not, sue her for that. She might decide to give the colt back instead.

dacasodivine
May. 28, 2012, 11:21 AM
I know you are upset. Take a deep breath and CALM DOWN! She has won if you don't. You did work for her. Figure up how many hours you worked and then figure out how much you would have been paid for that work. Be fair and reasonable. Don't try to claim $20 per hour.

Do you have texts or e-mails regarding work? Something like that would help back up your claim.

You have the registration papers and vet bills to show that you didn't ask for wages because you thought you were getting the horse but since the owner rescinded that offer, you are owed wages.

Get a lawyer to send her a letter to that effect. She might decide it's easier to turn over the colt. If not, go to court.

Does anyone know if she could turn the BO in to the department of labor for lack of wages or something like that?

LauraKY
May. 28, 2012, 11:39 AM
She'd have to have some kind of proof that she did the work in exchange for wages or compensation and not just volunteer.

I'd like to know what breed registration she used. If it's true.

She says she's going to court in June. I don't know how that happened over Memorial Day unless she neglected to mention in in her first post.

As I keep saying, things don't add up. I can't imagine there is a 4-H club in the country that will allow a 5-6 year old use a 7 month old colt as a training project. Training projects are reserved for ADVANCED older riders. The project manual specifically states that training projects for 2 year olds (and this baby is no 2 year old) are NOT for beginner or intermediate riders.

I think the whole thing is a bunch of hooey.

How long before she come's back to say she's not coming back to comment? Any bets out there?

alibi_18
May. 28, 2012, 11:39 AM
Maybe the BO you worked for realised what kind of person you were and what plans you had for this colt and is only trying to protect it.

How old are you? Was this your first attemps at horse ownership? What are your skills/knowledge regarding horse training/riding/owning?

Acting like that on a BB...just can't imagine how it is in real life...threatening people on the internet....not a wise move at all.

Get over yourself, stop crying and act like an adult.

Troll.

Alagirl
May. 28, 2012, 11:44 AM
How long before she come's back to say she's not coming back to comment? Any bets out there?

LOL

BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!! BLAZE IS A GENTLECOLT! HIS CUTIEMARK IS SPECIAL!


Oh nevermind. :lol:
It's about time for the BO to find this, and a couple of houseguests to defend both sides.

I think I forgo the popcorn in favor of ribs and wings today! :lol:
Pass the watermelon.

dacasodivine
May. 28, 2012, 11:53 AM
Who volunteers for that kind of work? Sure helping stack hay and helping feed now and then I (and a judge) could buy. Several hours of hard work every day?

OP might have an e-mail or text that would at least give credence to what she says.

If the BO decided not to let OP have the colt in exchange for work, then she owes OP wages.

I"m going to go one step further and say she also owes the vet bills OP paid. OP would not have paid them if she didn't believe the colt was hers.

LauraKY
May. 28, 2012, 11:57 AM
dacasodive, still a true believer?

FalseImpression
May. 28, 2012, 11:58 AM
I don't understand that the now 5 yo grandson is going to use the now 7 month old colt in 4H now , this minute... maybe in a few years? when the kid is 10 and the horse is 5? Makes more sense to me.
Good luck OP.
I am so tired of BM/BOs pulling stuff out of their hats with no notice... must be something in the air/in the water?? sigh

paulaedwina
May. 28, 2012, 12:08 PM
I've worked in that kind of situation before. My old trainer was caught short handed so I fed and hayed (is that a word?) her horses in exchange for riding lessons at a rate of $10.00/hr. I racked up 11 classes at $45/hr in short order because I was there a few days a week and it took about 4 hours of work. The difference is that this verbal was over something like lessons. I would not have made a verbal agreement for purchasing a horse -that kind of thing requires paper.

Paula

Ambitious Kate
May. 28, 2012, 12:16 PM
I can also see some scenario where the owner had the barn worker handling the colt because the owner was old, and had gotten kicked, and the OP wanted to buy the colt through barn work but was not consistent or there enough to fullfill that kind of agreement. I can see the owner not wanting to give her the colt for many reasons, and then finding out the barn worker had had the vet come and draw blood and had registered the colt in her name. The owner is horrified, moves the colt to where the barn worker can't find it and the barn worker calls the cops.

We have all seen threads which begin "Former barn worker tried to take one of my colts, WWYD?"

I can't quite reconcile the idea that the barn worker has been working and not paid, although she never says that. She only says she had an agreement...Oh! She had an agreement to do barn work in exchange for a colt.

So she works with the colt, spends time with it, but never really does any barn work consistently. Probably some barn work, but not consistently . She says "Even after" she did specific regular barn work, but how do you go back to a barn after calling the cops and getting a court date and having the woman hide the horse? But she says then she was working hard.

I think she worked with the horse but didn't do alot of barn work, owner found out she had registered the horse and flipped out, because she had never done the barn work end of things. Moves the horse, OP starts doing her barn work chores, but its too late - owner thinks she's a stalker.



The registrations papers with KMSHA with a dna sample don't mean anything??

Murphy's Mom
May. 28, 2012, 12:40 PM
I bought my mini from a 17 year old girl. She had purchased the horse when she was 11-12 by working off the purchase price. All of the paperwork came to me when I bought the horse. There is a written agreement (nothing fancy just on a piece of notebook paper) that "girl" will purchase the horse (then a yearling) from "adult" (who actually was a 4-H leader) by working at the rate of $/hour. Following that was a list of all the days she worked, how much she earned toward the purchase price, and how much she still had to pay. Took her a year to work off the money owed (horse stayed with the adult all that time). The girl never sent in the transfer papers so when I bought the mare I had to transfer them from the original owner to me.

So OP, hopefully you have something showing when you worked and how much you worked. Horses are sold without papers all the time (they get lost, people forget to transfer them, etc.). Without some sort of documentation I doubt there is anything a small claims judge can do. If you go in frothing at the mouth shouting "revenge" the judge probably won't even listen to you. And if "accidents" happen to the barn owner or her property you'll just find yourself in jail.

Jealoushe
May. 28, 2012, 12:52 PM
Still sceptical here...until I hear what the work was to be in exchange for what??? Value of horse...board of horse?? Time with horse??

Still she says she has been working with the colt for 7 months, so since it was 3 months old??

Not adding up.

cowgirljenn
May. 28, 2012, 01:09 PM
The OP may be a troll, and she's certainly emotional... BUT she isn't the only person who has been in such a position.

When I first moved to Texas after graduating from college, I wanted to get back into horses and found a woman who needed some help with her horses. She was older and had health issues, and she had Arabs (my favorite). I came out and helped with the horses (no stall cleaning, just putting horses in and out, longing, grooming, whatever she needed. Often I had to sit around and listen to her talk as she was lonely and needed someone to talk to).

I was supposed to be working off the cost of a horse, and I had picked one out - a gorgeous gray gelding I was in love with.

After a few months, my fiance at the time (DH now) and I moved out there to help more because her barn help left. We cleaned stalls, fed horses, fixed fences, etc. etc. etc.

And when this woman was evicted from the property for being a squatter (eek - we didn't know that she had stopped paying on the property eons ago AND been evicted but come back onto the property), we had to part ways. I was ready to take Flight with me, but she wouldn't let him leave. She wouldn't let any horse on the property leave.

I believed in the honesty of people - I had never had reason to doubt it before. I had nothing in writing, and we left without my horse.

About a year after we parted ways, this woman overdosed that particular horse with phenylbarbitol (which she had stolen from a vet!) and the remainder of her horses were seized by law enforcement. That's how I got involved in rescue... because I was trying to help those horses that I knew and loved and couldn't help when we knew them. (It sounds like a soap opera, the long version is even worse, but it is true).

We're all stupid sometimes. And sometimes that means that others are effected (in my case, it was Flight... and in the OP's case it may be her grandson).

The problem comes when you start screaming about revenge, injustice, and how your situation is special and no one has suffered like you have. Some of us have been there before and still have emotional scars. But it doesn't mean that we scream and pound our firsts and expect others to make it right. We realize our mistakes (not getting things in writing) and we mourn our loss and we move on.

And we don't scream at those who were trying to answer our question/give us advice. I do realize some people here sound harsh and some people are harsh. But when you started screaming at them, you opened the door to all of that. Respect generally works better.

Long Spot
May. 28, 2012, 01:26 PM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Sounds like Phil Collins.

I laughed at this harder than I should have.

dacasodivine
May. 28, 2012, 02:05 PM
dacasodive, still a true believer?

I have known people like the OP's barn owner so it's not really that far fetched to me.

But yeah, I can be pretty gullible sometimes.

LauraKY
May. 28, 2012, 03:04 PM
Who signed the breeding certificate (which you need to register with KMSHA) and who is the owner on the breeding certificate?

http://www.kmsha.com/breed_standards.htm

coloredhorse
May. 28, 2012, 03:12 PM
... all I asked was what proves Horse Ownership and nobody has answered me yet..

Actually, yes, several people have.

Bill of sale = proof of horse ownership. The other items (papers, vet/farrier receipts, etc.) are nice to have as supporting documents. But in the U.S., a bill of sale, signed and dated by both seller and buyer, is generally required to prove ownership.

I'm sorry for your situation, iconroe. Honestly, the suggestions that you write up all the hours you worked, tasks you performed, etc., and "back-door" your way to getting the colt by demanding cash payment for the work (and be ready to hit your state or local labor authority if necessary).

guest12345
May. 28, 2012, 03:19 PM
Oh this has gotten too funny.
OP- Don't waste your money going to court. You will lose. You have nothing in writing!

Alagirl
May. 28, 2012, 04:57 PM
Oh this has gotten too funny.
OP- Don't waste your money going to court. You will lose. You have nothing in writing!


Pass the wine please, Box only! :cool:

ESG
May. 28, 2012, 06:31 PM
There was no agreement REMEMBER???? No signed contract. forget about it I will never see him again.. I live only one quarter mile from her so I WILL GET EVEN!!!! And when she goes to court in June with us she will wish she never did this to ME! END OF DISCUSSION!

<singing> I see your true colors shin-ing through......:D

goeslikestink
May. 28, 2012, 08:20 PM
Still sceptical here...until I hear what the work was to be in exchange for what??? Value of horse...board of horse?? Time with horse??

Still she says she has been working with the colt for 7 months, so since it was 3 months old??

Not adding up.

exactly and at that time wouldnt it still be with its mum 3mths is way to young to be taken about from mothers milk, and a that age foaly will act up rear and fart about as it has to find legs and balance


and like i said before if shes owed a wage if she worked it of for the colt then there should be deductions in a wage packet or a receipt for part payment of the colt some thing like this

said colt worth say 200 for arguement sake

to op------ name addy
please note colt is 200
your weekly pays worked out at 10hrs - total pay 50 quid leaving a balance of 150.00

if one didnt get a wage packet - and you worked for her then what was the set up ------

or laymens terms-- did you have a contract of employment or are you just a helper as its so close to home and you like horses
or did she allow you to play with this neddy as you liked him
seems to me there lots of bits missing

Alagirl
May. 28, 2012, 08:50 PM
<singing> I see your true colors shin-ing through......:D


No more box-wine for you! :D

ESG
May. 28, 2012, 11:26 PM
Ooohhh, I don't know - boxed wine is a bit too classy for me,,,,,,,,,maybe a gallon jug dipped out of the 55 gallon drum of ripple residing on the back porch? :p I am definitely a ripple kind of girl.

CarrieK
May. 29, 2012, 12:22 AM
Ooohhh, I don't know - boxed wine is a bit too classy for me,,,,,,,,,maybe a gallon jug dipped out of the 55 gallon drum of ripple residing on the back porch? :p I am definitely a ripple kind of girl.
I had you pegged for Thunderbird. Ah well. Live and learn.

ESG
May. 29, 2012, 11:27 AM
Runs out too quickly - the 55 gal has some staying power. :p

danceronice
May. 29, 2012, 12:24 PM
As I keep saying, things don't add up. I can't imagine there is a 4-H club in the country that will allow a 5-6 year old use a 7 month old colt as a training project. Training projects are reserved for ADVANCED older riders. The project manual specifically states that training projects for 2 year olds (and this baby is no 2 year old) are NOT for beginner or intermediate riders.


Well, the biggest thing is, five is too young for 4-H. To be a regular member, you have to be 8. Six is okay for Cloverbuds, but you won't be able to handle a young horse alone at that age. There are different rules about what you can and cannot do unsupervised as a kid. So, if they were planning to wait a few years, okay, that's plausible.

But no bill of sale, no written work contract (including taxes and FICA, so you can BOTH have fun with that in court!), OP is SOL.

gottagrey
May. 29, 2012, 01:13 PM
What /why is the hay is stored on YOUR truck? I don't get this working arrangement at all. A yearling no matter how sweet is not an acceptable 4-H project for a 5 year old ( or pretty much any young kid for that matter). No matter how sweet and well mannered babies are they are babies which means they will want to play with you or your son - that's what they do. I worked with a young colt that we had from this mare I used to ride. I pretty much did most of the ground work w/ him and he was very well mannered for a youngster but when I would go out to paddock to catch him he more often than not greeted me on 2 legs and/or a quick spin and buck -he wanted to play, and was not being mean.

The OP's situation sounds like they were/are being taken for a complete ride, my guess is the woman conned her in to some free labor, free vet /farrier/feed and then decided to sell the horse out from under the free labor.

The problem is the horse was probably sold to someone else and that person would have to return the horse, get their money back (which is most assuredly gone/spent. How much veterinary or farrier care did you provide to a yearly - one would assume not very much? Pretty much your only recourse is to sue for lost wages or the value of the horse since there is now a 3rd party involved. This has the makings of great court TV

lachevaline
May. 29, 2012, 02:38 PM
I DON"T CARE ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Awesome.

ChocoMare
May. 29, 2012, 03:19 PM
Um, Mah Navu anyone? :confused:

lconroe
Jun. 5, 2012, 12:49 PM
Ok I know I said I was done. I received my registrations papers for my colt today from KMSHA.. With Dna certificate also.They did not require a breders cerificate as the sire is not know and he must be gelded to stay registered. They have the dna sample done and matches his mothers and the owner is named as me. So he will never be registered by any one else. Also I didn't store hay on my vehicle I used my personal vehicle to haul hay from her hay barn to her horse barn. A seperate structure about a quarter mile away. My grandson will not be joining 4-h till he's at least 8 which the colt would have been 4 years old, not that it matters now.

LauraKY
Jun. 5, 2012, 01:40 PM
I don't think anyone really cares. If that's nasty, sorry. I just lost my horse of a lifetime today to a pasture accident.

lconroe
Jun. 5, 2012, 01:45 PM
I don't think anyone really cares. If that's nasty, sorry. I just lost my horse of a lifetime today to a pasture accident.
Sorry for your loss, I know how you feel, I didn't have Blaze a lifetime, but does it matter, It still hurts!

Snowflake
Jun. 5, 2012, 01:50 PM
I don't think anyone really cares. If that's nasty, sorry. I just lost my horse of a lifetime today to a pasture accident.

Well, that's kind of cold and callous don't you think LauraKY?

A loss is a loss. You experienced one and so did the OP. The OP's was preventable if she had the experience and the forethought to perform proper due diligence. We as more seasoned horse people could see it coming from a mile away, but the fact is, the OP did not. I don't know the details of your situation, but I'm sure you didn't see it coming either. Both situations suck, but it's no reason to be snarky.

If you're in the anger stage of your grieving process, it may be best to take it off the board so that posts don't come back to haunt you. I'm sorry for your loss and hope you can find peace soon.

Jealoushe
Jun. 5, 2012, 01:54 PM
Ok I know I said I was done. I received my registrations papers for my colt today from KMSHA.. With Dna certificate also.They did not require a breders cerificate as the sire is not know and he must be gelded to stay registered. They have the dna sample done and matches his mothers and the owner is named as me. So he will never be registered by any one else. Also I didn't store hay on my vehicle I used my personal vehicle to haul hay from her hay barn to her horse barn. A seperate structure about a quarter mile away. My grandson will not be joining 4-h till he's at least 8 which the colt would have been 4 years old, not that it matters now.

A 4 year old unbroke and an 8 year old are still not a good match.

What was the original work/ownership agreement anyway?

cnvh
Jun. 5, 2012, 02:16 PM
I agree with whoever said it sounds like the original owner felt like the match wouldn't have been a good one (for whatever reason) and decided to retract the offer of said horse. if that is/was the case, OP should still be compensated for her time and labor somehow...

ESG
Jun. 5, 2012, 02:24 PM
I don't think anyone really cares. If that's nasty, sorry.

I'm with you. And JMO, but it's no more nasty than the OP has been to those who had the temerity to disagree with her.


I just lost my horse of a lifetime today to a pasture accident.

I'm so very, very sorry for your loss.

asb2517
Jun. 5, 2012, 02:56 PM
Ok I know I said I was done. I received my registrations papers for my colt today from KMSHA.. With Dna certificate also.They did not require a breders cerificate as the sire is not know and he must be gelded to stay registered.

So to be registered with KMSHA, which I am assuming is something like Kentucky Mountain horses, you don't have to have 2 registered parents? And there needs to be no breeders certificate or transfer from original owners?

MandyVA
Jun. 5, 2012, 03:22 PM
I agree with whoever said it sounds like the original owner felt like the match wouldn't have been a good one (for whatever reason) and decided to retract the offer of said horse. if that is/was the case, OP should still be compensated for her time and labor somehow...

It sounds like she filed a claim in small claims court and has the hearing this month.

OP-my advice is to bring a witness that can substantiate how many hours your worked so you can be compensated for the work.

You should try as specifically as you can to walk in with a written accounting of each day that you worked, the hours, what you did, etc. If you have it all in writing and the other party doesn't remember specifics you will have a much better outcome.

Take your compensation and buy a nice older pony for the child's project, it's not so bad!

Ambitious Kate
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:01 AM
So you just went ahead and registered a horse which didn't belong to you? The owner never gave it to you, and in fact denied it to you, and you registered it in your name anyway? No matter what your argument is/was about the horse, you didn't get it, but you registered it in your name any way. And "now no one else can ever register it in their name"? Yes, if you turn the papers over to the legal owner, she can have them changed to her name.

I know you feel you deserve the horse, but there was a glitch and you didn't get it.

That would be like me trying to buy a horse - I get a PPE done, blood work, etc. but the owner backs out for no good reason, but backs out she does and I don't get to buy the horse. So I use the blood work from the PPE to send in and register the horse in my name anyway. Pretty creepy.

Kate66
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:13 AM
OP, it sounds like a really sucky situation.

I'm quite surprised that everyone is saying that you need a bill of sale, I would have thought a verbal agreement would have been sufficient. Certainly when my husband was trying to get paid for work that he did here, without a signed contract, legally we could prove that by him doing the work, it indicated that an agreement was in place although the contract was not signed.

If you can prove that she didn't pay you but you were working, I would have thought that was sufficient to prove that there was a contract in place (although I am no lawyer). Likewise, it makes me wonder how SHE can prove that SHE owned the horse in the 1st place?

With respect to everyone piling on because the OP was rude to GLS. To be fair to the OP, unless you are used to GLS it can be hard with the British attitude and GLS's way of writing to decipher whether she is being helpful sometimes. GLS - this is no disrespect to you - haven't seen you on for a while. I am a Brit too who's lived in the US a long time and reading your posts reminds me of the stark cultural difference between calling a spade a spade and couching it differently as I often see here. OP - if you re-read GLS's post carefully, she had actually had a couple of good suggestions for you there.

On everyone going on about the colt not being a suitable project for her 8 year old (in a few years). Maybe not, but maybe it's OK. The pony I adopted was only 5 and my 3 year old at the time handled him a treat and in fact many of you commented on the cute videos. I would never have credited a 5 year old with his lovely manners. Sometimes you just have to be there and know the horse and it sounds like the OP does know how to handle horses, just was totally abused by someone that she knows.

Mad Mare
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:21 AM
Now, this I'd like to see on Judge Judy :)

Eileen

oliverreed
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:09 AM
No I didn't go ahead and register it after the fact the paperwork was mailed to KMSHA the beginning of May, with help from my employer (whatever you want to call her) This colt was a foal of her mare, with sire unknown, so the colt must be gelded to keep papers. The registration was already sent and in the process of being done before she decided to steal it and give it away. And that is exactly what she did was steal it. She gave it to us for work done.. And how is a bill of sale to be written I did not pay any funds for him. It was a gift more or less for gratuity for my service of work. If I had him at my house she could not have touched him. And yes I have learned a lesson, I am a bitter person now and will not trust anyone, old or not and if I do something for someone I will be paid wages. Its a shame that life and people have to be like this. And that no ones word means anything anymore. Just lie and cheat your way thru life is the impression I get. And when we go to court if I win I want the money from her all $12,000 and I don't care if she has to borrow it to pay me. She can keep the colt and sell him at the New Holland Sale for meat like she does with the rest of her horses.. cause this whole situation has made me not care anymore.
:eek::eek::mad:

Really?!?!? Sell it for meat?!?!? Gee, you are just SUCH a horse lover.

lconroe
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:12 AM
OP, it sounds like a really sucky situation.

I'm quite surprised that everyone is saying that you need a bill of sale, I would have thought a verbal agreement would have been sufficient. Certainly when my husband was trying to get paid for work that he did here, without a signed contract, legally we could prove that by him doing the work, it indicated that an agreement was in place although the contract was not signed.

If you can prove that she didn't pay you but you were working, I would have thought that was sufficient to prove that there was a contract in place (although I am no lawyer). Likewise, it makes me wonder how SHE can prove that SHE owned the horse in the 1st place?

With respect to everyone piling on because the OP was rude to GLS. To be fair to the OP, unless you are used to GLS it can be hard with the British attitude and GLS's way of writing to decipher whether she is being helpful sometimes. GLS - this is no disrespect to you - haven't seen you on for a while. I am a Brit too who's lived in the US a long time and reading your posts reminds me of the stark cultural difference between calling a spade a spade and couching it differently as I often see here. OP - if you re-read GLS's post carefully, she had actually had a couple of good suggestions for you there.

On everyone going on about the colt not being a suitable project for her 8 year old (in a few years). Maybe not, but maybe it's OK. The pony I adopted was only 5 and my 3 year old at the time handled him a treat and in fact many of you commented on the cute videos. I would never have credited a 5 year old with his lovely manners. Sometimes you just have to be there and know the horse and it sounds like the OP does know how to handle horses, just was totally abused by someone that she knows.
Thank you for tips. I appreciate any help at this point. It has been a trying time. My grand son is upset that we can't go to the barn and she just is making things bad.

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:13 AM
$12,000 really? For a colt by an unknown sire? So, let's see. If you were earning $10/hour that would be 30 weeks of full time work. Did you work for 40 hours per week for over half a year?

First you're heart broken and now you don't care if she sells him for meat? Like I said in the beginning...there is something very wrong with this picture.

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:14 AM
She can keep the colt and sell him at the New Holland Sale for meat like she does with the rest of her horses.. cause this whole situation has made me not care anymore.

I get that you're pissed at this woman but it's not the horse's fault, you know. To wish slaughter upon him is, well, not mentally healthy.

You've learned a hard, bitter, but important lesson. In the future, get everything in writing.

As for how you could have had a bill of sale drawn up, it would have been quite easy. I got my last 2 horses for nothing, but still had a bill of sale for each. JJ's 'official' cost was $1.00, even though I didn't even pay that. :D

Just because there's no exchange of money between hands doesn't mean you can't draw up a bill of sale outlining the terms of the agreement.

Besides, I thought she sold the colt to someone else, not that she gave him away or is planning to sell him for meat. :confused:

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:20 AM
And how is a bill of sale to be written I did not pay any funds for him. It was a gift more or less for gratuity for my service of work.

That's easy. It goes something like this:

I, <old lady>, transfer to lconroe one colt out of <mare> by an unknown stallion in consideration for hours worked from <date> to <date>. The value of the colt is considered payment in full to lconroe and ownership of the above colt is transferred in full, free of any liens or encumbrance.


I get that you're pissed at this woman but it's not the horse's fault, you know. To wish slaughter upon him is, well, not mentally healthy.

You've learned a hard, bitter, but important lesson. In the future, get everything in writing.

^^^ AGREED ^^^

lconroe
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:24 AM
That's easy. It goes something like this:

I, <old lady>, transfer to lconroe one colt out of <mare> by an unknown stallion in consideration for hours worked from <date> to <date>. The value of the colt is considered payment in full to lconroe and ownership of the above colt is transferred in full, free of any liens or encumbrance.



^^^ AGREED ^^^
gees maybe I should take this up to her and have her sign it HUH

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:28 AM
A learned lesson.

Then why don't you take it as that, a lesson learned, and invest in something to enjoy with your grandson? BUY an appropriate pony, research and find a reputable boarding situation to be able to keep him at without any drama and just simply ENJOY horse ownership. That's what it's all about. Every horse person has a story of being burned by someone. It's part of the initiation I guess. You can either let it make you bitter and crazy so that you add to the drama of the horse world or you can let it make you a more educated owner and consumer. Personally, I think the latter is better for everyone.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:29 AM
gees maybe I should take this up to her and have her sign it HUH

If she already sent you a cease and desist, I wouldn't knock on her door. She could have a good case for having you arrested.

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:34 AM
I saw a man driving a silver ford pkp with a trailer take him away. whom I yelled to stop but he did not.

I wouldn't have stopped either, if I was driving away with my new horse and some unknown person was screeching at me as I left.

Your issue wasn't with him, and it wouldn't have been fair to put him in the middle of all the crazy.

I'm sorry you got taken. It happens far too often and it stinks, but the only recourse you have is obtaining a court order for monetary compensation.

Jealoushe
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:37 AM
I do not know what she did with him.. She told the police she gave him to a friend. I saw a man driving a silver ford pkp with a trailer take him away. whom I yelled to stop but he did not.Besides that I know nothing. She had an attorney mail me a registered letter revoking any permission That I had to be on her premises and she has changed her phone number. Her son and daughterinlaw are trying to find out where the colt is, as they have been wronged by her also, so its just not me. They warned us but I really thought it was them. A learned lesson.

Sounds like a restraining order...would love to hear the other side of this story...

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:40 AM
Sounds like a restraining order...would love to hear the other side of this story...

Not a restraining order. It is a simple cease and desist. Many courts require them prior to issuing an order of protection/restraining order to show a pattern of behavior by the person it's served on. It's used to prove (which is why it's sent certified) that you have informed the person to cease and desist any and all contact with you. If you have had them served with the cease and desist and can prove they continue to contact, then you have grounds for a restraining order.

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:48 AM
Now the story is beginning to unfold...a cease and desist order. Remember the other thread about the woman who kept feeding a horse that didn't belong to her....

Instant Karma
Jun. 6, 2012, 09:56 AM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Sounds like Phil Collins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG5ZZMOcl04

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:05 AM
I do believe she is a bit scared because of what she has done, and she does have a reason to be!!!!

Be very careful about implying threats, especially on a public, written medium. Your words could come back to haunt you if this situation makes it to court.

lconroe
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:10 AM
Be very careful about implying threats, especially on a public, written medium. Your words could come back to haunt you if this situation makes it to court.
I'me not threatening anything, she knows she has done wrong and there are so many people that can back up our story and have been to the barn and seen the work done. I think she just thought I'd walk away and not bother an old lady.Everything that will happen to her will be legally done. She is not worth getting in trouble for..

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:12 AM
Be very careful about implying threats, especially on a public, written medium. Your words could come back to haunt you if this situation makes it to court.

My gut feeling is that the confrontation between the OP and the old lady after the colt left was heated and OP and her family may have made a threat or two in the heat of the moment which is why the cease and desist order was written by the old lady's attorney.

OP, I really feel that if you were to walk into the court room with the information you have, which is all he said/she said, no judge worth their weight would rule in your favor. If you're bringing the case in, the burden of proof is on you and unfortunately, from the sounds of it - you have none. Judges want TANGIBLE evidence. Things they can touch and hold. That's why the bill of sale/transfer of posession we've all been chirping about is so very important. It's something you can place in the judge's hand that shows, without any reasonable doubt, that the old lady did in fact sign the horse over to you and you were the legal owner. Registration papers don't do that. With the very wonky faux registries out there, I can register the boarder's horse in the next stall over in the blue-eyed horse registry under my name with a fake bill of sale, but that doesn't mean it's mine. It is so important to execute sales properly, and have a transfer signed by the previous owner. Save that for the life of the horse. That's the nature of the beast. And I don't doubt that old lady knew exactly what she was doing. It sucks, but c'est la vie.

Also, if you were to present yourself in court the way you have here it wouldn't be a good impression. I'm not saying that to be mean, but decorum and professionalism (without being over emotional) goes a long way in getting somewhere in the legal system. It means that you can be a logical and effective communicator. To go in spewing hate for the old lady instead of presenting facts only, won't do you any good.

Jealoushe
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:14 AM
Not a restraining order. It is a simple cease and desist. Many courts require them prior to issuing an order of protection/restraining order to show a pattern of behavior by the person it's served on. It's used to prove (which is why it's sent certified) that you have informed the person to cease and desist any and all contact with you. If you have had them served with the cease and desist and can prove they continue to contact, then you have grounds for a restraining order.

Thanks for clarifying.

Either way...I have a feeling the TP side would be very interesting..

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:22 AM
The only threat made was to call the spca which we did..

For what purpose? Selling to slaughter isn't illegal.

If you did it just to be a PITA, that's harassment.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:28 AM
I had my reasons!

Then it stands to question why, if you felt the care was substandard and warranted the involvement of the local SPCA, did you leave the colt you claim you owned there?

The continued branching of this story OP isn't benefiting you at all. But, understand, the questions which are posed here are something that a judge may ask you in court. We'll be happy to be your mock trial should you continue to post. COTH enjoys playing judge and jury.

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:32 AM
Exactly, Snowflake.

OP, you're not coming across as being rational or cool headed, which will not go in your favor in a court of law.

If you deliberately set out to cause problems for this woman for no other reason than trying to make her miserable, the judge will not look favorably upon you for that.

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:33 AM
I'd love to hear the other side of this story....

oliverreed
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:33 AM
Pass the popcorn. Is it too early for a glass of wine?

goeslikestink
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:36 AM
So to be registered with KMSHA, which I am assuming is something like Kentucky Mountain horses, you don't have to have 2 registered parents? And there needs to be no breeders certificate or transfer from original owners?

correct heres the link cost 35$

so its just like booking a registered part bred
or simular to chaps in uk, horse doesnt have to have breed papers as most are common cobs without a proven back ground
but a society has been made for the coloured horses- chaps regardless of breed or type

as the fathers unknown only has the owners work if the mare is of type of this type of mountian horse

well follow link and learn more lol

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:36 AM
I'd love to hear the other side of this story....

Me too.

MistyBlue
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:37 AM
Why hasn't there been a netposse post regarding Blaze yet?

bambam
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:41 AM
OP never said it was a cease and desist order- she said an attorney sent her something telling her to cease and desist. While it might have been an order from the court, it is much more likely that it was just a letter from an attorney saying stop doing this.
Lawyers send them every day and it is much more uncommon for there to be court involvement. Cease and desist letters are just that -letters. They get sent often because people tend to think twice about doing something (using copyrighted material, making libelous or slanderous statements, etc) when an attorney tells them to knock it off, than when the person who wants them to stop tells them to.
It is quite a jump to go from she was told to cease and desist to assuming it was an order from the court.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 10:45 AM
OP never said it was a cease and desist order- she said an attorney sent her something telling her to cease and desist. While it might have been an order from the court, it is much more likely that it was just a letter from an attorney saying stop doing this.
Lawyers send them every day and it is much more uncommon for there to be court involvement. Cease and desist letters are just that -letters. They get sent often because people tend to think twice about doing something (using copyrighted material, making libelous or slanderous statements, etc) when an attorney tells them to knock it off, than when the person who wants them to stop tells them to.
It is quite a jump to go from she was told to cease and desist to assuming it was an order from the court.

In the state where I live, cease and desist orders can be drawn by an attorney. They are the initial step in obtaining a restraining order which is issued by the court.

So, in your state, it may be called a cease and desist letter, but they're really the same beast. I never said it was anything issued by the court.

goeslikestink
Jun. 6, 2012, 11:02 AM
I had my reasons!

yeah and iam not dumb as to why but you done it the wrong way round matey
look
1- go back and read my posts
2- am gonna give you benifit of doubt---ok folks

3- now then lady you rang to complain about said naughty person
mate you were dumb------ now listen up i have been rehabiing horses for years and re schooling they come form all walks of life and in that life time i have met every single excuse possible

and to call spca - was dumb as you did it against her, rather than play her at her own game if thats what she is

charirties will work for you and can help locate animals that have been taken

learn this lesson well ---- the art was not to be - oh- f it i going to complain and get her done for xyz............ then you have lost the horse your looking for as that case starts and ends right there - if she done wrong all neds get taken and she is procecuted - done deal


but if you had played it differently-------- and called the scpca as to help find our horse and last know address was hers- then plod would have had to intervine and you just might of got him back- read previous post on empoundment and proof of ownership etc


a charity can legally take a horse and seize it if there is adoubt of the ownership if a horse has been sold - whilse on loan, at livery, or leased therfore until proven in a court of law the horse is empounded to the local chairirty until
the case justifieds the owner


get it -

i have had 7 cases like this in uk, myself and the horse weere sign over to me whilse the court case was being heared until proof of owner ship they were in my care


now-bearing in mind whas been said and done think
you saw the truck and the man, you must have some photos of the foal
if he wa in your percession- if you want him and he yours then blooming well stop comming on here complaining and go to the officals
get photos of him up on fb - and here after you have contacted the mods
for stolen horses blooming well put him on every blooming site thats in you area on the net in state out of state
to include-------- vets farriers - feed shops tack shops, markets rescue centres charities pony clubs- which you know one get them to help you

get him done there posted and out there- once you have located him
get your evidence- of vets fees hay feed merchants anything you had a bill for

and take photos as they dont lie- and get yourelf down to the police station






the more you have and the more you do you will find him
dont complain get to work if you llove him that much and hes yours then do something now

the horse will be seizse of the new owner until the case is heard and is proven your the real owner- and the new owner will lose the horse but if she stole him
then this will all come out in court
and she will have to re imberse the new owner and theres a slim chance you will find him and get him back

will add when horses are seized for whatever reason there must always be a policeman or police envolved and vet, and an animals rescue /charity
why

police are there for human rights , charities/rescue ther for animal rights
vets are ther to make sure the horse is well and can travel and will also be able to give evidence of what condition the horse is in and how hes been kept
as the police and the vets are the proffessional the charities rescue centres etc, are the welfare side as in they care feed nd look after said ned or animal as they cover a wide vairity of animals but always have vets that work with them along with farriers s charitie are just that they are not a proffesional body
like vets and farrier as in qualified - likewise police are they have a quailifing period before on is let loose on the public lol

bambam
Jun. 6, 2012, 11:13 AM
In the state where I live, cease and desist orders can be drawn by an attorney. They are the initial step in obtaining a restraining order which is issued by the court.

So, in your state, it may be called a cease and desist letter, but they're really the same beast. I never said it was anything issued by the court.
The OP never said "order"
It might be an "order" and it might be simply a letter (just like any other letter an attorney sends) telling them to cease and desist whatever the conduct at issue is.
I have never come across an attorney cease and desist letter that was anything other than correspondence from an attorney. Not saying you are incorrect about what occurs in your jurisdiction, but that is certainly not the case in all jurisdictions (never come across one where any kind of cease and desist letter is required prior to getting a TRO/PI or where it is an attorney issued "order" rather than a letter like any other letter).
IME, letters called "cease and desist" letters are sent as the first line of action (and often the only one if they are successful or the person does not want to go the litigation route) to get someone to stop doing something. So the terminology cease and desist letter may mean nothing more than a letter telling her to stop it.
To me an "order" is issued by a court- it may be different in your jurisdiction but that is unusual andI believe there were references to court in other posts (but am not double-checking). In my mind, there is a big difference between a letter shot off by an attorney and something you have to go to court to get (and therefore presumably meet some sort of evidentiary standard).
My only point was not to assume this was anything more than someone asking their attorney to send a letter stating that the person was no longer welcome on their property so that the person took it more seriously. Might be more, but that is a big assumption.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 11:30 AM
yeah and iam not dumb as to why but you done it the wrong way round matey
look
1- go back and read my posts
2- am gonna give you benifit of doubt---ok folks

3- now then lady you rang to complain about said naughty person
mate you were dumb------ now listen up i have been rehabiing horses for years and re schooling they come form all walks of life and in that life time i have met every single excuse possible

and to call spca - was dumb as you did it against her, rather than play her at her own game if thats what she is

charirties will work for you and can help locate animals that have been taken

learn this lesson well ---- the art was not to be - oh- f it i going to complain and get her done for xyz............ then you have lost the horse your looking for as that case starts and ends right there - if she done wrong all neds get taken and she is procecuted - done deal


but if you had played it differently-------- and called the scpca as to help find our horse and last know address was hers- then plod would have had to intervine and you just might of got him back- read previous post on empoundment and proof of ownership etc


a charity can legally take a horse and seize it if there is adoubt of the ownership if a horse has been sold - whilse on loan, at livery, or leased therfore until proven in a court of law the horse is empounded to the local chairirty until
the case justifieds the owner


get it -

i have had 7 cases like this in uk, myself and the horse weere sign over to me whilse the court case was being heared until proof of owner ship they were in my care


now-bearing in mind whas been said and done think
you saw the truck and the man, you must have some photos of the foal
if he wa in your percession- if you want him and he yours then blooming well stop comming on here complaining and go to the officals
get photos of him up on fb - and here after you have contacted the mods
for stolen horses blooming well put him on every blooming site thats in you area on the net in state out of state
to include-------- vets farriers - feed shops tack shops, markets rescue centres charities pony clubs- which you know one get them to help you

get him done there posted and out there- once you have located him
get your evidence- of vets fees hay feed merchants anything you had a bill for

and take photos as they dont lie- and get yourelf down to the police station






the more you have and the more you do you will find him
dont complain get to work if you llove him that much and hes yours then do something now

the horse will be seizse of the new owner until the case is heard and is proven your the real owner- and the new owner will lose the horse but if she stole him
then this will all come out in court
and she will have to re imberse the new owner and theres a slim chance you will find him and get him back

will add when horses are seized for whatever reason there must always be a policeman or police envolved and vet, and an animals rescue /charity
why

police are there for human rights , charities/rescue ther for animal rights
vets are ther to make sure the horse is well and can travel and will also be able to give evidence of what condition the horse is in and how hes been kept
as the police and the vets are the proffessional the charities rescue centres etc, are the welfare side as in they care feed nd look after said ned or animal as they cover a wide vairity of animals but always have vets that work with them along with farriers s charitie are just that they are not a proffesional body
like vets and farrier as in qualified - likewise police are they have a quailifing period before on is let loose on the public lol

GLS, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting what you wrote correctly but if it is how I read it, you're implying that the SPCA would be involved in the seizure of the animal while ownership is being disputed. If that's the case, unfortunately, that's not how it works here in the states. Heck, we have a hard enough time getting action from them when horses are in immediate danger, let alone a squabble between two parties.

Police have given the OP the correct information - this is a civil matter that should go to small claims court. No way on God's green earth is this colt worth $12,000. He's a backyard bred, incomplete pedigreed, gaited breed. Depending on his conformation and color, he's worth $1,000-$1,200 at best, but probably $500-800 is a better mark. The SPCA is not going to involve themselves in any way in this colt's recovery. That's not their job.

Kate66
Jun. 6, 2012, 11:53 AM
OP, if I had to give you some advice now it would be this:

1. Clearly document your understanding. Don't write anything emotional - like using words like "I feel" and "I didn't like". Just state the facts "old woman agreed to xxxx", "on May xx , old woman did this......" - NO emotions. You lose everything when you come across as upset, bitter, angry. You might feel that way, but you will be much more credible if you calmly have the facts and have good documentation.

2. Stop posting on this thread. When you write comments like she has reason to be scared - you may feel this is just you venting, however in reality this is a clear threat and like some of the others have said, everything you write, can be picked up. You have no idea who may know this woman, who may print off this thread and take it to court showing that you are a clearly aggressive threatening person. Of course you may feel that's nuts and you are just venting, but remember that written posts to convey what you are feeling, just what you are saying. Likewise if you go to court, don't use any of these terms.

3. Again with the venting you say that she can send the horse to slaughter like she does the others. That makes you look very heartless. On one hand you are talking about how much you loved the colt and how miserable you are and on the other hand you are talking about you don't care and just let it be killed. It is contradictory, so think hard about the message that you want to portray.

4. Don't contact the woman anymore. DOn't believe that her kids are your friends. By all means have them help you, but don't share with them any of the thoughts you have vented on here.

Good luck.

meupatdoes
Jun. 6, 2012, 11:55 AM
All I did was work. Int he morning went at 6;30 am till 10 or 11. Fixed fence for 6 hours, Brought all the hay to the barn from the garage were it was stored on my vehicle. 8 bales every other day. Whenever farrier came I helped, holding and fetching horses, Then in the evening at 6 or so went back and watered and fed hay again and cleaned stall of mares who were close to foaling, took another yearling out for walks. I would be there at least an hour.

Who does 6 hours of work a day for some random stud colt?
Assuming a 4.5 week month and $7 minimum wage, that is $945 a month, for 7 months, for a grand total of $6,615.

Really?

You could have just paid her $1,500, boarded it someplace for $300 a month that DIDN'T have substandard care (which apparently you were providing all of) and 7 months later spent only $3,600 total.

The math does not shake out here.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 12:02 PM
Who does 6 hours of work a day for some random stud colt?
Assuming a 4.5 week month and $7 minimum wage, that is $945 a month, for 7 months, for a grand total of $6,615.

Really?

You could have just paid her $1,500, boarded it someplace for $300 a month that DIDN'T have substandard care (which apparently you were providing all of) and 7 months later spent only $3,600 total.

The math does not shake out here.

Good point!

meupatdoes
Jun. 6, 2012, 12:07 PM
Oh wait let me add $300 to cover gelding it so that it will be suitable for your 5yo for 4H.

meupatdoes
Jun. 6, 2012, 12:29 PM
I'me sorry but you are wrong, I have called state police, 5 times, sheriff, spca, attorney, and we filed papers at district court. NOONE WILL DO ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They all say go to district court and file papers, But that will not get the horse back unless she would rather do that than pay money. Heres is my facebook link www.facebook.com/lori.conroe so you can see I have posted and contacted all sales in New York Pa and NJ, and everyone I can. So I am doing something.

I used to work for an MP at British Parliament.
We used to get calls all the time:

"Hi. Help me! The police won't do anything. Someone is moving items around in my house. I am being robbed blind bit by bit. One day they took my toaster. Another day they moved the TV six inches to the right. I can see the dust mark. They are coming in and MOVING THINGS and taking one little thing at a time!! I have called the police time and time again and now they just hang up on me."

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 12:34 PM
Oh my. Nice language there too. Glad you're not my grandmother.

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 12:36 PM
And the story changes. From your facebook page:

"I'll tell you who did it the bitch that Myself and husband worked for at her barn for 3 months while she couldn't do it. The colt was payment for the work. Then she turns around and takes it and won't allow us back on her land to get it. I have registration papers, vet bills and farrier bills, but the cops won't due a damn thing cause " I can't prove he's mine". We never had a signed agreement but I thought maybe someone's word was good enough. So you see the media isn't gonna help either but maybe if I can find out were he is because I did see him on A trailer leaving there. All I know is she god rid of him.Any one in my area and that ever came to that barn or knew her were aware of the colt being ours and why!! She is a very cold mean old lady and I hope she dies that way."

And your family is stealing gas from you too?

Meupatdoes....ding, ding, ding, I think we have a winner.

meupatdoes
Jun. 6, 2012, 12:36 PM
Upon review of the FB page I revise my $1,500 estimate to remove the 1.

Even assuming the FB version is true, why would anyone accept that horse as payment for 3 months of work??? Instead of being like, no, pay me my $945 for each month and then I'll peel off a couple hundred back to you to buy that from you for what it's actually worth.

guest12345
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:02 PM
Whoever said they wanted to watch this unfold on Jude Judy... OMG HAHA that would complete my life.

So, anymore news OP?

oliverreed
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:06 PM
Really does remind me a bit of Mah Navu.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:11 PM
Really does remind me a bit of Mah Navu.

Well, both her and the OP are backwoods PA...

But Alas... Mah Navu's name IRL was/is Mary Zinn. She disclosed that info a while back when she shared some medical records of her horse.

OP's name is on her FB - Lori Conroe.

They might be related though. :lol::lol::lol:

Bacardi1
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:20 PM
All I can say is that I'm feeling REALLY sorry for the "old lady", & am hoping that she's the one who comes out on top.

OP sounds like & comes across as a true "nutter".

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:27 PM
Maybe Mah Navu stole her gas...or maybe Mah Navu is the lady she worked for! Maybe Blaze is in witness protection with Beau.

Alagirl
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:28 PM
I can just see the other side of the coin:

"I had this couple working for me on the farm. next thing I know she has the vet out to draw blood on my foal and send of for registration papers. I moved the colt to a different barn to keep these crazy people from stealing him"

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:48 PM
I can just see the other side of the coin:

"I had this couple working for me on the farm. next thing I know she has the vet out to draw blood on my foal and send of for registration papers. I moved the colt to a different barn to keep these crazy people from stealing him"

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Neighbor goes on to say: "What a nutter. I had to have my lawyer send her a letter telling her to stay off my property. She tried to chase the trailer down that was hauling my horse away."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:51 PM
End of saga.... Just heard she dropped dead with a heart attack.. KARMA has prevailed....LMAO

In what way? You still don't have the horse, and now never will.

Besides, laughing over the tragic death of someone else will come back to bite YOU in the butt.

I felt sorry for you at first, but now I think you're an evil, nasty, entitled witch.

No wonder the old lady sent the horse away. I wouldn't give you one of mine, either!

oliverreed
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:51 PM
End of saga.... Just heard she dropped dead with a heart attack.. KARMA has prevailed....LMAO

Really?!?!?!? "LMAO"?!?!?

oliverreed
Jun. 6, 2012, 01:57 PM
I say troll.

guest12345
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:01 PM
End of saga.... Just heard she dropped dead with a heart attack.. KARMA has prevailed....LMAO

Seriously? Sounds fishy to me.

Alagirl
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:02 PM
End of saga.... Just heard she dropped dead with a heart attack.. KARMA has prevailed....LMAO


nah, the old female dog is just warming up....

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:04 PM
I say troll.

Yeah, gotta be.

Long Spot
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:07 PM
Oh dear lord.

I miss the good old days of the amusing trolls. This one is stomach turning.

Carolinadreamin'
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:16 PM
OP went back to its May 25 original post and today (June 6) did some major editing. Luckily some posters quoted some or part of the now deleted stuff.

ChocoMare
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:22 PM
You can't make this stuff up. Head*Desk

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:27 PM
OP went back to its May 25 original post and today (June 6) did some major editing. Luckily some posters quoted some or part of the now deleted stuff.

Awww... She removed the post where she said I was really smart. :cry::(:no:

Long Spot
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:27 PM
You can't make this stuff up. Head*Desk

Actually I think some can. And have. :lol:

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:28 PM
Whoa. And I thought some of my neighbors were crazy! OP, you are a nasty, evil old woman. They say karma comes back to you 10 fold.

macmtn
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:30 PM
:eek::eek:
End of saga.... Just heard she dropped dead with a heart attack.. KARMA has prevailed....LMAO:eek:

Be careful...Karma has a way of backhanding you..

lconroe
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:34 PM
I think that most of you people on here really need to get a life, I'me really sorry that I asked your opinion for anything. As I can see the world is full of people like the OL that I am in litigation with now. I really hoped that someone could give me some type of encouraging words but I feel like I'me in a shark tank being on this forum. None of you even seem to care about the facts of this matter and that I was taken advantage of and used like a doormat. I will delete my account and will not take more abuse than I allready have .. Thanks for everything!!!!!

paulaedwina
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:35 PM
End of saga.... Just heard she dropped dead with a heart attack.. KARMA has prevailed....LMAO

Okay then -you just dropped into my "not a nice person" category.

Paula

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:36 PM
As I can see the world is full of people like the OL that I am in litigation with now.

You mean dead people? I certainly don't feel dead. I'm also not sure how you can be in litigation with a deceased individual. :lol:

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:37 PM
Bet OP comes back...we're not nearly done yet. Wait til she finds out she can't delete her account.

cloudyandcallie
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:38 PM
OP never said it was a cease and desist order- she said an attorney sent her something telling her to cease and desist. While it might have been an order from the court, it is much more likely that it was just a letter from an attorney saying stop doing this.
Lawyers send them every day and it is much more uncommon for there to be court involvement. Cease and desist letters are just that -letters. They get sent often because people tend to think twice about doing something (using copyrighted material, making libelous or slanderous statements, etc) when an attorney tells them to knock it off, than when the person who wants them to stop tells them to.
It is quite a jump to go from she was told to cease and desist to assuming it was an order from the court.

Right. Anyone, attorney or the aggrieved, can send a notice of criminal trespass or cease and desist, etc. It's a notice,nothing official. However, it can then be produced in court to charge someone with a crime if the person enters onto the person's property or harasses him/her or whatever. It's just a notice. But then if someone ignores the notice, and continues to make harassing phone calls or stalks or enters onto property, they get arrested.

So beware OP, if you continue to bother the woman.

And thanks to Oliverreed. I'd come home from barn with wine and put it in the freezer and forgotten it. And thanks to the cother who told me to come look at this thread, or my wine would be frozen.

Anyhow OP, you might prevail before a magistrate judge in PA, if he/she believes you. Carol Lush got her horses and ponies back from a bad consignment before her death, when she went to magistrate's court up there. Of course she was lucid and intelligent and even though she had no paperwork stating what each party to the oral agreement had to pay, Carol prevailed because she told the truth, and the judge believed her. The creepy horsewoman who was trying to keep her horses and the sales from them, lost on the claim that she was owed feed and boarding.

Sometimes justice prevails. Judges aren't stupid. Well OK,90% of them are not stupid. They usually can tell who is lying and who is telling the truth. Especially my judge Charlie Weltner when he had his voice stress analyzer hidden under his bench!:lol:

oliverreed
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:41 PM
I think that most of you people on here really need to get a life, I'me really sorry that I asked your opinion for anything. As I can see the world is full of people like the OL that I am in litigation with now. I really hoped that someone could give me some type of encouraging words but I feel like I'me in a shark tank being on this forum. None of you even seem to care about the facts of this matter and that I was taken advantage of and used like a doormat. I will delete my account and will not take more abuse than I allready have .. Thanks for everything!!!!!

Saved for posterity.

And what did I do that prevented frozen wine? Glad to help prevent that, any old time!!

cloudyandcallie
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:41 PM
You mean dead people? I certainly don't feel dead. I'm also not sure how you can be in litigation with a deceased individual. :lol:

Wait! Who died? the 72 yoa? the grey horse? was the horse grey? Grey horses often have to go into the witness protection program.

I need to go check on my wine.

Oliverreed, when a cother told me she was on this thread, I started reading from the last page, and when i got to your post about wine, a bell went off. Nothing worse than frozen beer or wine.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:41 PM
How can you be in litigation with her if she's dead?

And good luck deleting your account. It can't be done.

And your temper tantrum is because you didn't like being told the truth. That's all you got here. As far as the sharks, you fed them with your attitude.

Long Spot
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:43 PM
like the OL that I am in litigation with now.

Good luck suing a dead woman. Might affect your case a little. Better pow wow a bit with your lawyer. ;)

Long Spot
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:44 PM
Grey horses often have to go into the witness protection program.



And sometimes they need veneers. :yes:

lconroe
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:46 PM
How is it that you have an answer for everything?? Do you enjoy being a complete Ass?? GOOD GOD

cloudyandcallie
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:47 PM
And sometimes they need veneers. :yes:

OMG. I forgot how funny you guys were with that. And I am dead serious that I want to whiten Cloudy's teeth. He looks like he smokes tobacco! (The only vice he doesn't have!) Those strips don't stay on when he's grazing or eating hay. It's very frustrating and edisto equine is not sympathetic to his plight!

Hattie's teeth look a little better, but they could use some whitening as well while the vet is out here.

Cloudy is grey and his teeth match his manure stains. I should put him in witness protection but who'd want him? Only me and Hattie apparently.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:49 PM
How is it that you have an answer for everything?? Do you enjoy being a complete Ass?? GOOD GOD

Who are you referring to?

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:50 PM
How is it that you have an answer for everything?? Do you enjoy being a complete Ass?? GOOD GOD

You're obviously reading your own posts. If anyone's being a complete ass around here, I don't think it's any of the regular, sane members.

Well, sane as far as horse people go, since it's a sliding scale. You madam, appear to be on the extreme end of that scale, although I don't think it can be blamed on owning horses.

lconroe
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:50 PM
Who are you referring to?

YOU

cloudyandcallie
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:51 PM
Who are you referring to?

It can't be anyone on this thread. We are all in competition for "Miss Coth Congeniality 2012."

dressagechickmn
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:51 PM
Wow!!! Just caught up to everything I am think this calls for a bag of M&Ms and some beverages..BAHAHA, good to know that we can sue dead people though may need to keep that one in mind.

-opens M&Ms bag and pours beverages and begins to pass around...any takers-

oliverreed
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:52 PM
It's definitely not too early for wine now!! Box 'O Chardonnay, here we come.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:55 PM
YOU

Hey, you said I was really smart....

I'm not being an ass. I've been nothing but completely honest with you. Your situation sucks but sometimes you have to take responsibility for the part you play in creating it.

lconroe
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:58 PM
Wow!!! Just caught up to everything I am think this calls for a bag of M&Ms and some beverages..BAHAHA, good to know that we can sue dead people though may need to keep that one in mind.

-opens M&Ms bag and pours beverages and begins to pass around...any takers-

Yea I'll have a jack and coke too!! Bahaha

dressagechickmn
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:59 PM
Iconroe- Anything else you want to whine about..you made a mistake by taking someone's word. Learn from this experience don't become some hateful person that is glad someone supposedly died. Did you ever take in to consideration that at her age maybe she is suffering from some medical conditions that are undiagnosed?

Long Spot
Jun. 6, 2012, 02:59 PM
Yep she does in filthy urine soaked feces pens.....

They make pens out of feces? Organic and sustainable. Smart.

JmpR_1
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:02 PM
This is an interesting little thread we got going on.. where's my pillow and milk duds.

OP- I'm sorry that you have learned the hard way when it comes to selling, buying, trading etc with horses. Next time, just have a contract written out.
I understand that you are upset, but you should be upset with yourself, not the other members on here who answered your question correctly.

If I were you, I would just put your big girl panties on, suck it up, and move on. Now that the Owner of the colt is dead, you have nothing in writing, therefore you don't exsist with this animal.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:02 PM
Yea I'll have a jack and coke too!! Bahaha

Since you already think me an ass...

Trolls can't partake in the drink. It's like feeding mogwai after midnight. It's just not done.

Swampskeeter
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:03 PM
Yep she does in filthy urine soaked feces pens..... Also gives people horses then takes them away from them. Also takes foals away from mares at 3 months old.. I'me told to stunt their growth for mini's. Also switches paper for minis that die..And I could go on and on..........

So is Blaze a Mimi Mountain Horse??

lconroe
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:05 PM
Really enough!!!!!! This is ridicolous... I will lick my wounds and see what happens I learned a valuable lesson!!!!!!!!!!!!Enough of the name calling stupidity and nonsense. I just am very hurt that she did this,but like I said I did learn.. And no shes not dead. ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG!

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:05 PM
But is she merely dead, or is she really, most sincerely dead? I don't believe 9/10 of what OP has posted, so until I see the obit in the paper...(edited to add 99.9%).

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:07 PM
Really enough!!!!!! This is ridicolous... I will lick my wounds and see what happens I learned a valuable lesson!!!!!!!!!!!!Enough of the name calling stupidity and nonsense. I just am very hurt that she did this,but like I said I did learn.. And no shes not dead. ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG!

But I thought she was old?

Long Spot
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:07 PM
She's been mostly dead all day!

meupatdoes
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:08 PM
Really enough!!!!!! This is ridicolous... I will lick my wounds and see what happens I learned a valuable lesson!!!!!!!!!!!!Enough of the name calling stupidity and nonsense. I just am very hurt that she did this,but like I said I did learn.. And no shes not dead. ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG!

Ooooohh, so when you posted in bold type about how she dropped dead of a heart attack, that was just joshin'.

Well okey dokes.

"Ridicolous" indeed.

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:08 PM
And no shes not dead.
So you admit that you're a big, fat liar?

That just raises the question, what ELSE have you lied about? :uhoh:


ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG!
Then you should live forevah! :D

dressagechickmn
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:09 PM
End of saga.... Just heard she dropped dead with a heart attack.. KARMA has prevailed....LMAO

Ok so she isn't dead now? OMG do we have zombies walking around again? Time to arm myself and get ready for the swarms of zombies........:lol::lol::lol::lol:

JmpR_1
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:11 PM
Really enough!!!!!! This is ridicolous... I will lick my wounds and see what happens I learned a valuable lesson!!!!!!!!!!!!Enough of the name calling stupidity and nonsense. I just am very hurt that she did this,but like I said I did learn.. And no shes not dead. ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG!

Good, atleast now you have learned. That's what horses are all about. Why did you lie about her death? This doesn't make sense.

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:12 PM
Not to worry. The CDC has instructions for the Zombie Apocalypse. (http://www.bt.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies.asp)

Regala
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:12 PM
i just have to say, this is the most bizarre piece(s) of writing ever. i think OP needs help, irregardless of how much or if any of the story is true.
i also hope the "old woman" is not harrassed or harmed in real life.

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:13 PM
Ok so she isn't dead now? OMG do we have zombies walking around again? Time to arm myself and get ready for the swarms of zombies........:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have put off reading those zombie survival guides! :(

dressagechickmn
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:15 PM
Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have put off reading those zombie survival guides! :(

I know right...I am kicking myself for not finding the time to do that :winkgrin:

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:16 PM
We need an auto update feature for this thread. It's a PITA to keep hitting the refresh button.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:19 PM
For your sake OP, if you are in litigation with the previously dead I hope no one prints this out and sends it to her. It would be a strike against your credibility I'm sure. Sometimes its just not a good idea to vent in public. You made it much worse by lying.

Jealoushe
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:21 PM
OP is bordering on some bad accusations against the OL...I hope you aren't lying about that too or you are most likely going to be facing a law suit. Not to mention a restraining order most likely.

JmpR_1
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:23 PM
I sugget that the OL get a restraining order on the OP. I'm afraid of what she'll do to the lady.

I wonder what the OP's family thinks of this mess? Or if they are on her side :/ harrasing the OL too!

arabhorse2
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:25 PM
Yep she does in filthy urine soaked feces pens..... Also gives people horses then takes them away from them. Also takes foals away from mares at 3 months old.. I'me told to stunt their growth for mini's. Also switches paper for minis that die..And I could go on and on..........

Quoted for posterity, just in case she tries to rewrite history, the way she did her first post.

JmpR, OP's family probably knows all about Momma and her 'problems'. ;)

JmpR_1
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:27 PM
JmpR, OP's family probably knows all about Momma and her 'problems'. ;)

Haha yes you are probably right. How unfortuanate.

Long Spot
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:29 PM
JmpR, OP's family probably knows all about Momma and her 'problems'. ;)


One of them dropped the ball on who was suppose to be watching her today.

cnvh
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:29 PM
So let me see if I have this straight:

OP falls in love with colt, who seems to have a majickal connection with her and grandson (lets grandson hug his byootiful face but kicks the Old Witchy Woman when she comes into the stall).

OP does months and months' worth of barn work in exchange for said colt. Meanwhile, OP has blood drawn and registers colt as hers, pays for a vet bill and maybe a farrier bill here and there. Majickal connection strengthens and colt begins to fart the occasional rainbow and butterfly.

OWW (probably getting wise to the fruitloopiness) tells OP she's no longer being given the colt. OWW has colt moved from the premises.

OP starts up a crusade to get the colt back, tries to file reports with every agency under the sun, but no one, not a single person in authority, will pursue OP's case.

OP comes on here for advice. CotH radar goes on alert. OP digs self a deeper and deeper hole with her fruitloopitude.

OP threatens OWW in a public forum. Then takes it back. Repeats a couple times.

OP claims OWW drops dead of a heart attack. OWW soon majickally rises from the grave. Cause of resurrection unknown.

Is this basically it thus far?

lachevaline
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:33 PM
So let me see if I have this straight:

OP falls in love with colt, who seems to have a majickal connection with her and grandson (lets grandson hug his byootiful face but kicks the Old Witchy Woman when she comes into the stall).

OP does months and months' worth of barn work in exchange for said colt. Meanwhile, OP has blood drawn and registers colt as hers, pays for a vet bill and maybe a farrier bill here and there. Majickal connection strengthens and colt begins to fart the occasional rainbow and butterfly.

OWW (probably getting wise to the fruitloopiness) tells OP she's no longer being given the colt. OWW has colt moved from the premises.

OP starts up a crusade to get the colt back, tries to file reports with every agency under the sun, but no one, not a single person in authority, will pursue OP's case.

OP comes on here for advice. CotH radar goes on alert. OP digs self a deeper and deeper hole with her fruitloopitude.

OP threatens OWW in a public forum. Then takes it back. Repeats a couple times.

OP claims OWW drops dead of a heart attack. OWW soon majickally rises from the grave. Cause of resurrection unknown.

Is this basically it thus far?

Oooh oooh witchy wo-maaaaaaaan
See how high she fli-i-ieess

JmpR_1
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:34 PM
So let me see if I have this straight:

OP falls in love with colt, who seems to have a majickal connection with her and grandson (lets grandson hug his byootiful face but kicks the Old Witchy Woman when she comes into the stall).

OP does months and months' worth of barn work in exchange for said colt. Meanwhile, OP has blood drawn and registers colt as hers, pays for a vet bill and maybe a farrier bill here and there. Majickal connection strengthens and colt begins to fart the occasional rainbow and butterfly.

OWW (probably getting wise to the fruitloopiness) tells OP she's no longer being given the colt. OWW has colt moved from the premises.

OP starts up a crusade to get the colt back, tries to file reports with every agency under the sun, but no one, not a single person in authority, will pursue OP's case.

OP comes on here for advice. CotH radar goes on alert. OP digs self a deeper and deeper hole with her fruitloopitude.

OP threatens OWW in a public forum. Then takes it back. Repeats a couple times.

OP claims OWW drops dead of a heart attack. OWW soon majickally rises from the grave. Cause of resurrection unknown.

Is this basically it thus far?

Spot on! Hooked on phonics done me good. Or more like hooked on phonics done her good! Haha

lachevaline
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:36 PM
Lconroe, instead of deleting your account (which can't be done), have you considered creating a new account and coming on to this thread to defend yourself? It's a very classy move that many have used here with great success.

Snowflake
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:39 PM
Lachevaline, that's bad. Hysterical, but bad. Don't bait the trolls. :lol:

oliverreed
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:39 PM
Lconroe, instead of deleting your account (which can't be done), have you considered creating a new account and coming on to this thread to defend yourself? It's a very classy move that many have used here with great success.




:lol::lol::lol:

meupatdoes
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:40 PM
Personally I think the "OL" needs an "account" too.

JSjumper
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:40 PM
Lconroe, instead of deleting your account (which can't be done), have you considered creating a new account and coming on to this thread to defend yourself? It's a very classy move that many have used here with great success.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Long Spot
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:46 PM
Lconroe, instead of deleting your account (which can't be done), have you considered creating a new account and coming on to this thread to defend yourself? It's a very classy move that many have used here with great success.

:lol::lol::lol:

Edited to add one more smiley. Don't want to be one upped by JSJumper.

:lol: There.

dressagechickmn
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:46 PM
Personally I think the "OL" needs an "account" too.

We would be screwed then because that means zombies know how to communicate and surf the internet :D

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:52 PM
We would be screwed then because that means zombies know how to communicate and surf the internet :D

Perhaps Homeland Security has a plan for the Zombie Pandemic...just like the CDC.

danceronice
Jun. 6, 2012, 03:52 PM
Lconroe, instead of deleting your account (which can't be done), have you considered creating a new account and coming on to this thread to defend yourself? It's a very classy move that many have used here with great success.

Ladies and gentlemen, close the 'net, we have a winner of a shiny new internet with this post.

Dramapony_misty
Jun. 6, 2012, 04:09 PM
Nicholson, PA....that does explain a lot. We have many many horse whackjobs around the area. :no:

cheval convert
Jun. 6, 2012, 04:15 PM
Nicholson, PA....that does explain a lot. We have many many horse whackjobs around the area. :no:

Be very careful - it may the first step toward zombiehood. (The need brainze!:lol:)

cloudyandcallie
Jun. 6, 2012, 04:40 PM
Why would God resurrect a 72 or 73 yr old woman barn owner?

I think the coth investigative unit should go see if OP is related to mah navu. I want to say that there seem to be a lot of strange horse people in PA.:lol:

Coth investigation Division=CID. Better than NCIS or CSI.

Crooked Horse
Jun. 6, 2012, 05:04 PM
Hot d@mn!

I just wanted to hurry up and say what fun this thread has been before it gets locked...which will probably be any minute now. :yes:

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 05:21 PM
Hot d@mn!

I just wanted to hurry up and say what fun this thread has been before it gets locked...which will probably be any minute now. :yes:

It sure cheered me up...bad couple of days :(

runNjump86
Jun. 6, 2012, 05:21 PM
Since you already think me an ass...

Trolls can't partake in the drink. It's like feeding mogwai after midnight. It's just not done.

I juuuuust about spit out my drink...:lol::lol::lol:


So let me see if I have this straight:

OP falls in love with colt, who seems to have a majickal connection with her and grandson (lets grandson hug his byootiful face but kicks the Old Witchy Woman when she comes into the stall).

OP does months and months' worth of barn work in exchange for said colt. Meanwhile, OP has blood drawn and registers colt as hers, pays for a vet bill and maybe a farrier bill here and there. Majickal connection strengthens and colt begins to fart the occasional rainbow and butterfly.

OWW (probably getting wise to the fruitloopiness) tells OP she's no longer being given the colt. OWW has colt moved from the premises.

OP starts up a crusade to get the colt back, tries to file reports with every agency under the sun, but no one, not a single person in authority, will pursue OP's case.

OP comes on here for advice. CotH radar goes on alert. OP digs self a deeper and deeper hole with her fruitloopitude.

OP threatens OWW in a public forum. Then takes it back. Repeats a couple times.

OP claims OWW drops dead of a heart attack. OWW soon majickally rises from the grave. Cause of resurrection unknown.

Is this basically it thus far?

See bolded section for my new favorite saying. Thank you for summing up this trainwreck!


Hot d@mn!

I just wanted to hurry up and say what fun this thread has been before it gets locked...which will probably be any minute now. :yes:

Same...I actually read through the entire thing, cackling. I kinda felt like a witchy woman too!!

And I'll accept some M&M's, whoever was passing them out!

ESG
Jun. 6, 2012, 05:27 PM
Now, this I'd like to see on Judge Judy :)

Eileen


Ditto. :yes:

ESG
Jun. 6, 2012, 05:56 PM
Who does 6 hours of work a day for some random stud colt?
Assuming a 4.5 week month and $7 minimum wage, that is $945 a month, for 7 months, for a grand total of $6,615.

Really?

You could have just paid her $1,500, boarded it someplace for $300 a month that DIDN'T have substandard care (which apparently you were providing all of) and 7 months later spent only $3,600 total.

The math does not shake out here.

Neither does anything else about the story. :uhoh:

ESG
Jun. 6, 2012, 07:46 PM
I say troll.

As I have, from the beginning. :no:

ESG
Jun. 6, 2012, 07:49 PM
How is it that you have an answer for everything?? Do you enjoy being a complete Ass?? GOOD GOD

Seems to work just dandy for you - why don't you tell us? :D

Bacardi1
Jun. 6, 2012, 07:52 PM
I don't think this is a troll at all.

Misguided entitled-feeling yahoo, yes. Troll, no.

LauraKY
Jun. 6, 2012, 08:15 PM
Troll in a way...the I'm never coming back, but then coming back to post again is a dead giveaway. Yahoo...yes, entitled, yes. Misguided....more than that, I think. Much, much more.

JmpR_1
Jun. 7, 2012, 12:45 AM
Anyone wanna take bets as to who she will come back as?
OP? OL? Tweaked out hubby who is actually her cousin?

Alagirl
Jun. 7, 2012, 12:48 AM
Anyone wanna take bets as to who she will come back as?
OP? OL? Tweaked out hubby who is actually her cousin?

Elvis

Toadie's mom
Jun. 7, 2012, 01:52 AM
I got nuthin fur ya. Just want to thank you all for the free entertainment. Not REALLY free considering how much this iPad cost. Should I take the OP to small claims court to be reimbursed for the purchase price? I bought it specifically to read this thread. YOU believe me, don't you :cry:

whonew
Jun. 7, 2012, 02:17 AM
Did I miss something here? I read the posts and don't understand why you all have posted the name,address and phone number of the lady you all feel is the victim here.

Is that allowed on here? Even if the story the OP presented is true are you allowed to post personal info?

Toadie's mom
Jun. 7, 2012, 02:30 AM
Did I miss something here? I read the posts and don't understand why you all have posted the name,address and phone number of the lady you all feel is the victim here.

Is that allowed on here? Even if the story the OP presented is true are you allowed to post personal info?

OL is that you!!!!!???? Or, do we have our 1st houseguest?

whonew
Jun. 7, 2012, 02:37 AM
OL is that you!!!!!???? Or, do we have our 1st houseguest?

I sent you a PM as I am not sure what your post means. I believe you are asking if I am the lady who's information has been posted? No,I am not.

I don't understand the houseguest reference.

Snowflake
Jun. 7, 2012, 06:20 AM
Did I miss something here? I read the posts and don't understand why you all have posted the name,address and phone number of the lady you all feel is the victim here.

Is that allowed on here? Even if the story the OP presented is true are you allowed to post personal info?

I believe it is allowed as the person is a public/business entity. As a breeder/boarding stable, her contact information has been made public by her. No one here (save for the OP) has made any specific allegations against her and in fact, due to the OP's conduct here, we are concerned for her well being. I for one hope she's well.

cloudyandcallie
Jun. 7, 2012, 06:59 AM
Is there a houseguest?

At the end of the year, when we vote for the coth awards, congeniality, talent, etc., we must have troll and houseguest awards.

OP, if you are legit, you should take all your evidence and witnesses and go through small claims court. After the funeral, of course.

I remember the Zombies band. But was there a zombie song in rock and roll?

Moderator 1
Jun. 7, 2012, 08:08 AM
We removed the barn owner's info from the thread as the OP has made allegations against her, and we're closing the thread because it's mostly about zombies now. ;)

...and the new account IS an alter, but not for anyone related to this thread.

Thanks,
Mod 1