IS EVENTING SAFE?- post arguements HERE!

[Geroni-mo-oh-oh]

...every time I post something on this BB. So your "unsubstantiated statements" quote is rather, um, silly. I see my statements as truisms, i.e., so obvious as to be stated without having to cite chapter and verse. However, tonite when I'm off work, I'll go into lexis-nexis and find some cites for you---how's that? And save the irritation for something important!

"Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
Nietzsche

[Geroni-mo-oh-oh]

Sorry---gotta do rounds.

------------------
FROM: 2/02 Associated Press: "That was NBC's thinking, too. The network saw in Sydney that young viewers were tuning out the Olympics. As the Winter Games approached, NBC's marketing emphasized the cooler, faster, more dangerous sports. "

FROM: Houston Chronicle: 5/01 on Polo (similar to eventing in that it's dangerous and fast-paced. Different in that horses rarely die. )

It's addictive," Moody said. "It's an interesting game. It's fast, and it gives you an adrenaline rush. There's nothing like it."

..... As well as an overall rigorous workout lasting 1 1/2 hours during games, polo requires the strength to keep a 1,000-pound animal under control, good hand-eye coordination and the mental agility to play a furious-paced, strategic and dangerous sport.

"The key to the game is anticipation," Moody said. "You have to anticipate where your opponent is going to move and where your teammates are going to move."

Above all else, the sport is about the horses, according to Livingston and the players.

"Everyone who plays has a love for the animal," he said. "That's the attraction."

"Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
Nietzsche

[GotSpots]

But Earthquake, while those are fine quotes, they neglect one essential fact: very little eventing is televised or publicized in the United States. In fact, during the Olympics, only a small number of rounds were shown by NBC, and that usually only if an American is doing well in the placings. Had David O'Connor not been in contention for the gold medal, it is unlikely that they would have showed much of his ride. There are only a very few events in the United States where there are a substantial number of spectators (Rolex, Fair Hill, Red Hills come to mind) and of those, very few require paid admission.

Were this sport truly about money being made by showing the thrills and spills of eventing, than far more x-c would be shown, there would be "X-Games" like coverage of the major competitions, and people would probably find large sponsors. There would likely to be grand-scale marketing of the sport, as we've seen here in snowboarding and other so-called "extreme" sports.

Hasn't happened.

[Janeway]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by earthquake:
So your "unsubstantiated statements" quote is rather, um, silly. I see my statements as truisms, i.e., so obvious as to be stated without having to cite chapter and verse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For someone with 3 supposed degrees, including neurosurgery, you sure are contradictory! /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I know, I know, don't feed the trolls, but boy does this one need some stuffing! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Obviously earthquake you are unable to grasp the other side of an argument period. Not only are we here giving you truisms but also FACTS which you ignore, only to turn around and expect us to take everything you say as those same truisms, yet without facts... /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

So, in other words, your "unsubstantiated statements" are indeed very silly in my book and show that you are obviously not as knowlegable and all-knowing as you proclaim to be, as otherwise you would be backing up your statements with proper anecdotes and incisive explanations rather than just half-truths based on sensationalism.

Go back under the bridge and wait for the billygoats! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Badger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tle:
Badger, that's an interesting suggestion. My only comment would be "how would it be judged"? Most top eventers agree that jumping SJ and jumping XC are 2 different animals (I saw only a couple of the GP riders at a recent GP that I would say could "survive" a solid XC round without getting dumped because they were too far ahead in the air IMHO). In addition, I know a couple VERY good XC horses that could care less about SJ (they always have at least 2 rails but are usually fast & clean on XC and look good too). Plus any time you get subjective judging involved you get politics. *blech!!* I know a lot of H/J converts to eventing that left H/J for that precise reason.

I'm not saying it isn't worth exploring as a possible suggestion... just pointing out a few things that would need to be worked out first. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm one of those "used-to-do-hunters" myself, and I'd hate to see the same politics. That said, dressage is already subjective, so we do have that element in our scores already. How are the new "eventing tests" judged that were recently introduced (is it "suitable to become an eventer" and "eventing equitation"?)? Perhaps some of those judging standards (which I know squat about) could be utilized. I was posting this idea in response to several posts that have said that somone should be authorized to "pull" someone who is obviously dangerous. Because I see that as a beacon for lawsuits, I was trying to brainstorm other options.

If the judged test included stadium and solid fences (think of the old-style hunter courses that included solid fences in a contained area rather than across a x-c course) then the logistics of judging would be practical. I would hate for us to expect "hunter" rides, but instead be judging for "safe" somehow. I had all this more in mind to address the question of lower level riders being moved up too fast that was discussed earlier, rather than problems at the top levels. I don't think it is necessarily a great solution, but I think we need to think "outside the box" a bit about ways to test the horse and rider without so many fatal consequences. Personally, I would hate for hunter judging to be a part of eventing: I am the queen of 7 perfect fences and one wrong spot! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And Earthquake, this would NOT have addressed Bruce's accident. That's something that the collapsible pen idea is better suited to.

Don't take life so seriously...it's not permanent.

[Daydream Believer]

What about my earlier suggestion of a riding test like they have in Germany? Even DQ's over there have to jump a 3 foot course just to show at the lower levels in dressage! Why not have to prove that you are ready to move up to the next level by riding for a panel or several judges maybe similiar to Pony Club tests? I'm sure if the USEA or whoever gave it some thought, they could devise a fair test of rider and horse to give prior to moving up. I'm sure it would cost us some but I'd imagine they could keep the costs down to something reasonable. I'm game and would be willing to be tested.

I don't honestly know if this would help much at the upper levels but I see lots of potential at the prelim and below where you so often see unprepared riders. So often at the lower levels riders scrape by with very marginal riding on really nice horses which are their saving grace. This test would weed them out and keep them at a safer level until they were better prepared to move up. What do you think tle? Is this a way to check the training and preparation of the rider such as you have suggested earlier is most important? I can't help but think it would be a good possibility.

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

[GO-dog-GO]

You guys are wasting your time trying to reson with a person that has their mind made up and is not going to change it. Why bother, unless your having fun that is.

Ya might as well argue birth control with the pope or gun control with S Brady.

I've done the same thing before so I shouldn't throw stones butyou guys are all to smart to get caught up in the BS.

Let it die.

I'd stay and play but I'm going to a "western site" and try to get all those riders to wear helmets. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

**"The cowards won't start and the weak will die along the trail."
-- Kit Carson**

*Lord please save me from those trying to save me!*

[AM]

Badger - I've known two events that tried to offer the new "alternative" tests. No one entered. When I susggested that a course be designed with both stadium and cc fences, I was summarilied dismissed with the explanation that horses jump stadium and cc fences in entirely different tack and it would be unreasonable to expect someone to jump both types of fences in the same course.

[xjump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GO-dog-GO:
I'd stay and play but I'm going to a "western site" and try to get all those riders to wear _helmets_. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hahaha. Good one, G-D-G.


I agree with Go-dog!!!!! I think it's much more productive to make suggestions to help eventing become safer. In a bit, I'll try to distill the suggestions made in this thread and start a new one. Anyone who wants to can ad to that.

[tle]

G-D-G ... OMG. You are too funny! Let me know which western site you end up on as I count myself among the helmet nazis and, you're right, I feel like I would probably have a better chance with that that explaining logic to earthquack.

Daydream... I like it. I have no problem being tested (kinda like PC ratings, I guess... I was never in PC). However, what about that Bruce/High Scope type incident that might happen to someone who's been "passed"? I know a lot of ligit trainers, **good** trainers, who won't go anywhere near the "trainer's Signature" area of the entry form because of the possibility of liability for things they have no control over (aka freak accidents). And how would one incorporate those who HAVE done a higher level in the past but are no longer safe (for some reason)? Case in point, I know a gentleman who's the sweetest person around. His horse is a great guy, a real trier and the pair was competing relatively successfully at Prelim. Unfortunately after a couple years (the gentleman was no "spring chicken"), they started having problems and what everyone watched as "safety issues". Not often, but often enough for a few folks to be concerned. The last Prelim they did ended with him taking 2 falls, the 2nd of which resulted in a mild concussion. So would you have everyone repeat their testing after so many years? Including Olympians?? At a certain age won't work (agism!!)? Who do we get to be the testers?

Honestly, I'm not trying to shoot down ideas, but the one things I really do hate about our society is how sue-happy everyone is. It seems that no one takes personal responsibility anymore and that is not only sad, but makes things like this even harder.

However, I think the instructor certification program is supposed to help with this idea. Not formal testing per se, but having the knowledgible people out there (kind of like the course designers) who are on the "same page" as to what is safe and correct for the sport. Unfortunately, while I 110% agree with the program, I believe it's going to be a couple years before we see any kind of tangible (statistical) results that could potentially be pointed as a benefit of the program. That said, KUDOS to USEA and their committees (Sue Hershey, Karen O'Connor and company) for promoting such a worthwile program.

Badger -- while you're right about dressage being subjective, I still think that because 2/3rds of the sports (including the most influential portion) is OBjective, eventers don't get into the politics as much.

Moving up too fast IS a concern... thus the new Training-Prelim qualification rules that were enacted just this year (again, something that will probably have a long term payoff vs. immediate which seems to be what some people expect). Education of riders (going back to previous paragraphs of this post) is going to help that issue as well. Hopefully that education will expand to those who don't have regular coaches as well as parents (the most irate parent I've come across was a lady who's daughter was eliminated in dressage by the president of the ground jury for being unsafe... she threw and absolute fit and screamed at almost all the officials -- except for the organizer who would have promptly thrown her arse off the show grounds with park ranger escort if necessary).

BTW, asking how the Eventing Tests are judged is a VERY good question... one which no one I know of can answer! In fact, since they appeared int he rulebook, I have yet to see any of the new "tests" being offered anywhere. No one seems to understand them, what they're for, how they're judged, etc.... including me! If anyone else knows, please speak up!!

Again, I'm not trying to shoot down all the ideas... I think brainstorming like this is AWESOME (with a couple exceptions for a certain quake... uh... i mean quack /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ). Guess I'm just playing the role of the devil's advocate, eh? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

[GotSpots]

I know of a couple of courses that incorporate x-c type jumps into stadium: Dunham Woods in particular has a large hedge and pole oxer which rides like a solid fence, as well as a canter up a ramp and jump off a bank over a good sized oxer. The Training and Prelim horses I saw jump these had less problems than at a fairly basic wall and rails vertical which almost everyone had down. Other courses use hills in the stadium ring to their advantage. I like the questions, as I think it makes stadium more difficult but still retains the character of the phase. But I could be biased -- the Spotted One does stadium in the same happy mouth snaffle he goes x-c in, so I've not had to do much changing of tack.

I think also the new rules about use of whip and spurs have encouraged members of Ground Juries to be more observant of rounds -- a good, pro-safety development. I have seen a TD pull a rider for being dangerous, as well as give very careful warnings. I also had a rider receive a very careful talking to by the President of the Ground Jury at one of her horse's first events -- they'd spent much of the dressage test practicing airs above the ground and she was informed that if the first two jumps on x-c didn't appear to be safe and in control, he would eliminate her. And he was there watching part of her warm-up and the beginnings of the course (her horse settled down nicely into his job, and she did a very good job of slowly and carefully cantering her N course).

[Heather]

I'm really heartened to hear that officials are using their power to eliminate unsafe riders--it doesn't happen around here. I fear it's really the only way to go.

As the sport grows, and becomes more popular, the riding and training has changed to meet up with this "more modern" sport.

*Puts on granny glasses and climbs in rocker* Back in the day, when one moved up to prelim, your job was to spend several events just getting nicely over the jumps, improving the horses confidence, and keeping everything contolled and smooth. These days, if you don't make the time, you've screwed up. I remember at my first prelim, my trainer sat me (and others) down and basically said he would kick our a$$es if we made the time. Our job was to jump around, not make the time, not win a ribbon, jump around. I've NEVER heard a trainer say that in recent years.

Then again, back in the day, I didn't know anybody in my barn with a horse that had much eventing expereince before they bought them. The best horses in my barn were a washed up show jumper, one that came over from France as a three-year-old, and two that had come off the track. Everybody made up their own horses if they wanted to ride above novice (this was the only level you could find an expereinced horse at), and so you simply didn't have the novice level rider going out and buying and advanced horse and trying to go prelim after one training level. The availability of made horses contributes to many of the problems I see, and the only way to combat this is to have people who say, No, You aren't ready to do this level yet--and if the coaches aren't going to say it, then I damn well hope the officials will.

I'm all in favor of the new qualification rules, but it will never take the place of a knowledgable person saying to someone, "Hey, you aren't ready. You need to do X, Y, and Z before we can even talk about it."

Because the officials won't do it around here, I know of a few organizers who will simply reject certain entries--essentially someone who they saw barely survive a level at the previous event who was sending in an entry for the level above. The theory is that can't keep them from killing themselves, but they can prevent them from doing it at their event.

I think its great that more people are discovering the great sport of eventing. But, let's make sure we aren't attracting them because we tell them it's easy. This sport is HARD, it takes a lot of work, and there is much more hard things than fun, easy things. You should ride really well before you compete. That's really simple, but it's not a message that seems to be coming through.

That being said, it will never remove the possibility of freak accidents. Bad things just happen sometimes.

[tle]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm all in favor of the new qualification rules, but it will never take the place of a knowledgable person saying to someone, "Hey, you aren't ready. You need to do X, Y, and Z before we can even talk about it."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another great post Heather. And fwiw, I know of at least 1 BNT that is willing to say that... even to an off/on/occassionally at clinics type student (aka, said to ME!!). His opinion was the reason I moved up to Prelim 6 months LATER than I had originally planned. when/If we get to seriously considering Intermediate, I'll go get his opinion again... and follow it! (something I see people not willing to do either... they seek out opinions and then keep asking for more and more until they get an answer they like!)

Oh, and also FWIW, I happen to love the 'don't make tiem your first few outings' mentality... although I think I've taken it to the extreme... I have yet to make time at Prelim (10 seconds over is my best to date... and what an AWESOME round that was!!) /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

************
If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!!!

"All's well that ends with cute E.R. doctors, I always say." -- Buffy

[Jupes]

Hey tle,

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a BNT? Have I also seen an NNT abbreviation?

Thanks in advance!

[Janet]

BNT = "Big Name Trainer"

[Badger]

There is a difference between a trainer you are paying for their advice/opinion/experience saying "you aren't ready to move up" and an appointed official at the horse trials.

I do know trainers who say "you aren't ready, you need to do A, B, C before you even think about it." And I also know plenty of trainers and competitors that don't worry about time and being competitive until they have experience at a level. IME that is commonly taught these days.

Don't take life so seriously...it's not permanent.

[Hilary]

Heather - I'm happy to report that in Area I I've scribed for 2 stadium judges who have NOT allowed someone to ride XC because they were eliminated in stadium and were so scary to watch (this is BN-T) . The other thing they have done when the person is marginally scary is to say "ok, you may ride, but if you have one stop, you're done".

Many riders who are eliminated in stadium but are not scary (and thus allowed to ride) get eliminated on the first fence or so anyway - because scary or not, they are not ready to be competing at this level. My general impression is that the GJ IS paying attention.

I once heard a BNT say "well, if he can steer, the horse can jump" which I shocked me (talking about a kid wanting to do prelim) but my own trainer and I have been having a lot of discussion about what needs to be happening before my new horse moves up. (and I can steer and he can jump)

[asterix]

My only experience with elimination (so far; I've read that thread on all the ways, and feel I have a long and interesting journey of Big E's ahead of me) was couched in a very explicit discussion of safety. My first time at Training, mind elsewhere (namely, the xc course!), I sailed majestically past a SJ fence.
I was told that I could run xc because I looked safe (if I may say so, it was a very _nice_ SJ round, except for the wee gap between fences 6 and 8). Not only was I given the "one lick of trouble and off the course you come" admonition, but she also told me I was the only person she had allowed out after elimination all day, since others had had more, er, exciting SJ rounds.
As an amateur competing mainly for fun, this all sounded extremely reasonable to me. It was also TERRIFIC incentive to ride like the dickens on XC, so I wouldn't have to leave the course early.
To my mind, the power of the officials to tell me I can't run due to elimination or simply looking unsafe is spelled out pretty clearly on the USEA entry forms, which we sign.
I think we need a strong collective commitment to this power, both from the upper echelons of organizers, and from all of us who go to events of any level.
At a minimum, officials shouldn't feel reluctant to do what is right, their duty, and their right for fear of protests and bad mojo from competitors.
I know this doesn't address the upper level incidents, but it's the right thing to do anyway.

[Windline]

I have stayed out of this conversation, but feel I must say a few words now. There seems to be a great group of very knowledgable horsemen on her, with the exception of one individual who seems to be determined to throw a monkey wrench into the works. From what I can see there is no point in even giving this person air time, she doesn't event, she seems hell bent on getting people riled and seems to have very few if any facts to back up her accusations. I am an OR Charge Nurse in my real life, and I know many surgeons, none of which would have the time or the inclination to cause such a stir. I think it is purely for her entertainment. So as someone on here said, Better to not feed the trolls, Thats precisely what she wants. BTW Where did the term Troll come from? New to all this and this is the first time I have heard the term. I must say the image of the story 3 Billy goats gruff comes to mind. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[canterlope]

I go away to NAYRC for a week and miss a great discussion. I'm coming in late to this thread (yes, I slogged my way through all 14 pages of it) and have a couple of random comments to some of the things that have been previously posted.

Bruce and High Scope: According to several eye witnesses, including a couple of upper level riders, Bruce saw a long distance several strides out and asked HS to move up. HS was a bit slow in responding, but then began to move up in a rush. Unfortunately, his move up came a little too late to close the long distance. Bruce realized that they would not be able to make the distance and asked HS to come back for the short. HS resisted his request and apparently tried to evade the bit by raising his head. It was the general concensus of the onlookers that, by raising his head, HS never saw the jump and was making no real effort to jump when he chested the fence.

Jose and Jos Donza (NAYRC): As others have posted, the jump in question was a straight forward, albeit large, table, extremely well constructed and not particularly troublesome throughout the entire competition. This was not an inexperienced pair. They were qualified for the PanAm Games and Jose's father is a well respected international eventing official (TD for the upcoming WEG in Spain) and coach for the Brazilian team and Jose himself.

Their accident was a result of a split second decision that resulted in poor judgement on Jose's part. He was moving at a fairly quick pace and asked the mare for a very long distance at the jump. On hindsight, Jose acknowledged that he should have taken back and set the mare up for a better distance.

The mare tried to make the distance work, but the jump was just too wide. She came down on top of it, skidded across the top, was unable to get her feet down quick enough, and landed on her shoulder, fracturing it in several places. Jose was tossed to the ground, breaking his collar bone. The vets worked for a good part of the afternoon to save the mare, but it was just not meant to be.

More TDs inspecting courses: Currently there are five different sets of eyes inspecting our cross country courses before they are approved for competition. All by people who are well trained and knowledgeable about their craft. I don't believe getting more officials out to inspect the courses is the answer. As tle stated, the answer lies with the work we riders do at home. Plus, we must convince our riders that the current fashion of moving up through the levels as fast as they can is not something to be applauded. However, despite any efforts we make to eliminate accidents, they will still occur due to the inherent risk found in our sport.

Qualification Criteria: Many people feel that the qualification criteria we currently have needs to be stricter or that we need to impose qualification criteria at all levels (we now have it for the move from Training to Preliminary, but there has been discussion about imposing similar criteria at Novice and below). Unfortunately, this is a double edged sword. In some cases, once people meet the minimum requirements, they only look at this fact and feel that they are qualified to move up instead of making a true assessment of their abilities to determine if they are indeed ready for the jump up to a higher level.

Furthermore, additional qualification criteria can open up the issue of liability. It is not that far of a reach to invision a scenario where a young rider meets the current qualifications to move up to a higher level, makes the move, and crashes and burns. What happens next? His/her parents make the case that the USA Eq, USEA, USET, etc is responsible for the accident since they set the criteria which this young rider relied on as proof that he/she was ready to ride at that level.

Number of Deaths/Use of Statistics: As someone stated earlier, statistics can be bent and twisted around to prove any point you advocate. Saying that more and more horses and riders are dying on our cross country courses now as opposed to ten, fifteen, or twenty years ago without examining the rest of the demographics of our sport is like saying more people die in plane crashes now than 100 years ago.

By itself, it is an unfair and inaccurate comparison. There are so many factors that need to be taken into consideration before an accurate assesment of what is happening in our sport can be made. If you can't answer the whos, whats, whys, wheres, whens, and hows of our sport when using stats to prove your point, you need to gather more information. Without the entire picture, you are like one of three blind men trying to describe an elephant when one of them has hold of its ear, one its tail, and the other its side.

Just my humble opinion, I could be wrong.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Whoops, there goes another rubber tree plant!

[FairWeather]

Timely, if old discussion.

[CBudFrggy]

I'm pretty sure that flying my small plane isn't that safe either--but that's just me.

[Muck r us]

Okay, you got me. First I'm wondering how a 14 page discussion went on that I hadn't noticed. Then, I'm wondering how the heck Canterlope just got back from NAYRC. Then I finally looked at the date stamp. Ohhhh, August 2002! Shades of Yogi Berra and deja vu all over again!

[wannabegifted]

Honestly, Advanced eventing has always made my skin crawl. I'm sure several of you have walked Rolex. Did you imagine asking your horse who loves and trusts you to go over some of those jumps? Did you stand at the bottom of Lynch's Leap and look up? Eeek, made me feel guilty just thinking about it. I know the horses love it, but I don't believe they do know that they could die.

Eventing is a blast up to a certain level, but my opinion is that Advanced eventing leaves no room for mistakes. And since the sport doesn't involve machines, mistakes are going to happen. And be paid for with lives. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I know a horse can break it's leg in the field and people can get hurt in other disciplines but it just seems that Advanced eventing is asking for it. And if the animal rights people get up in arms again, well I personally think they should. Honestly, we are talking about at least 3 horses dead so far this year. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


hmm..because not all the deaths occur just at advanced. In fact, I would hazzard to guess there are more injuries and fatalities (or at least equal) at preliminary than advanced due to the fact that you get inexperienced horses and inexperienced riders at that level.

Also, I'm sure you get a lot of deaths from a horse pulling a cart for long hours, race horses (uh...barbaro?) that you never really hear of dying from a heart attack or a broken leg... far far more than you do at advanced. There can be just as many crashes in Show Jumping as in eventing, same thing goes for skiing, bobsleding, NASCAR, whatever. The fact of the matter is, it is a SAFE sport if you are smart about it, but even SAFE sports have inherent risk involved with them.

[canterlope]

Got me too, Muck r us, only I didn't even remember the thread until I saw my post. Even worse is that I don't even remember writing it, although it is quite well written if I do say so myself. ;-)

The memory of this thread must have been stored in one of those brain cells I obliterated the last time I landed on my head.

[magnolia73]

I think riding is probably as dangerous as it always has been- we just don't tolerate as much danger these days. That or I'm getting old.

I think at the lower levels, the courses are probably as safe or dangerous as they have ever been - the riders and horses are just less prepared to jump XC. I'm sure in the past eventers were foxhunting types- heck, eventing must seem tame vs jumping jumps with 50 of your best friend following you. Now people who event seem to come from the show ring or are new to riding. That 2'9 table- nope, not as safe as the 2'9 oxer in the show ring, but safer than the 2'9 coop between Old Man Farmers plowed field that you jump, hit a ditch and end up on a road.

When I was a kid- (and pray ThirdCharm misses this) at home - by my neighbors barn, back in the woods - I used to jump a "water jump" - 2' bank into a rocky- slick shale creek on my pony helmetless, with a halter and lead rope bridle. Then up over the fallen log- maybe a skinny log propped at 2'6 across a trail. But I don't know- you know- I just did this stuff. Never occured to me it was a bad idea. Neither was hitching Beebee to a go-cart. Or jumping a pitch fork proppped on two stacked buckets on the neighbors drive way.

OK, now I understand why youngsters take to eventing. At any rate, I think we have changed. I think people have always done scary crap- come to think of it- I probably have a lot in common with the scary kid bombing around XC - I just did it in private. Now the kids don't have woods to ride in and ponies at home, so they go to shows with the same lack of fear I had, and the parents are still clueless. Some of us adults have fallen and seen scary things, and have bills to pay - and voila, eventing is not safe - to us anymore - because WE changed not because the act of jumping XC is more hazardous.

[GotSpots]

Wow - blast from the past. Those halcyon days when the Spotted One went around in a Happy Mouth? It's like a country long, long ago. . .

C'lope - I'm struck by how apt your post is today. Change a few of the names and it could be describing some other more recent accidents:

Their accident was a result of a split second decision that resulted in poor judgment on (rider's) part.

[Speedy]

No, it's not safe. We do it anyway. People need to stop whining and ride, or stop riding.

[fuller0819]

eventing is dangerous but any sport on horse back is!!! riding down a trail can be dangerous. but you assume that risk when you get on that horse and go. a number of things can happen to you or your horse on any given day. yes some horse sports are more dangerous than others but it goes back to it all is.