View Full Version : Newbie question: Haunches-in & Shoulder-in
May. 18, 2012, 01:46 PM
Is a haunches-in tracking one way similar to a shoulder-in tracking the other way?
Have just started doing shoulder fore with my horse, with whom I do lots of bending/counter bending and figures. I typically do it on the long side of the arena and I'm wondering if it would be similarly beneficial to try asking for a sort of "haunches fore" too.
Not very experienced in dressage (http://cdn.styleforum.net/9/99/99da1837_i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing-dog.jpeg) and my coach just relocated so I can't ask her!
May. 18, 2012, 01:56 PM
Shoulder-in is a displacement of the position of the shoulders, haunches-in is a displacement of the haunches. The aids are different, as is the distribution of your weight.
May. 18, 2012, 02:05 PM
Go buy THIS (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Dressage-Jennie-Loriston-Clarke/dp/0894715623) book. It explains these thing very clearly.
May. 18, 2012, 04:42 PM
I just ordered that book:)
May. 18, 2012, 06:17 PM
I just ordered the book as well, can't believe I got it shipped for $5 and change?? How could I say no :)
Yes I suspected that it was a different set of aids entirely. I was imagining it from a birds-eye view and thought there might be some similarities -- since the horse is traveling at angle to the line of travel in each movement.
May. 18, 2012, 07:24 PM
Shoulder-in and shoulder-fore move away from the direction of the bend, similar to a leg yield. Haunches-in moves toward the direction of the bend, like half-pass. Thus the haunches-in movement is a good bit more difficult to do properly.
May. 18, 2012, 08:39 PM
Agree that the aids are different and the movement displaces different parte of the horse from straight line.
But your link made me laugh out loud! Thanks for the laugh!
May. 19, 2012, 01:23 PM
The bend is the biggest point of difference from a bird's eye view.
There are a bunch of trainers around here who think a head to wall leg yield is haunches-in. :rolleyes:
In shoulder in the shoulders come to the inside and therefore move on a slight angle to the direction of travel. The haunches move straight along the direction of travel. The head and neck are bent to the inside so the horse is not looking straight along the direction of travel.
In haunches in the haunches come to the inside and therefore move on the slight angle to the direction of travel. The shoulders, head and neck point straight down the line of travel. Renvers and travers are simply haunches in as related to the wall.
May. 19, 2012, 03:17 PM
Shoulder in (on three track)is the first step onto a circle of 10 m (shoulder fore is the first step onto a circle of 20m, shoulder in (on four tracks) is the first step onto a 6-8m volte). It moves the shoulders. SI is inside leg, outside for and inside hind aligned, and outside hind. SF is inside leg, inside hind (seeable between the forelegs)outside fore, outside hind. The horse looks inside but moves down the long side towards its left shoulder. It is evenly bended. Renvers also move the shoulders, is on three tracks, looks straight ahead but the bend is opposite of si.
Haunches in (travers) is the last step of a circle ridden straight ahead. Half pass ia a variety of travers on a diagonal line. It is on four tracks (as is renvers).
Theses exercises can also be ridden on a circle, with si going to counter si, and travers going to renvers. In all the exercises the inside leg is closer to the girth and the outside is back, the difference is the responses to different alignments as the shoulders and quarters are actives by specific responses.
You can look at the USEF web sight for brief descriptions of the rules and drawing of the horse when seen from above, the 'tracks'.
May. 19, 2012, 03:57 PM
IdeaYoda - never heard those movements described as such, but when I think about it, it makes perfect sense. So tomorrow when I'm riding, I'm going to think about it again - if my aging brain remembers...
May. 20, 2012, 07:10 PM
Oh my yes, I just looked at the real drawings and can see that there is a bend in the spine in all and it is critical to performing the movement.
Thanks IDEA for the visuals! Now I see how much it really involves an arc in the horse.
May. 20, 2012, 07:18 PM
look here on helpful links pages
read page 1 link 11
has working diagrams in this conversation as its always comes as a topic
heres the link with diagrams
May. 21, 2012, 07:32 AM
It is always helpful to the rider learning S/I, and H/I, to start from a correct 10m circle. It puts the rider in the correct position, and it puts the horse on the correct bend.
All the rider need do is simply :lol: :lol: maintain that bend on a straight line. ;)